1
00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:07,400
Speaker 1: Body dots with Joseph scotten More. Imagine, if you will,

2
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,119
Speaker 1: a new benchmark for evil and kind of let me

3
00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,440
Speaker 1: lay it out to you real quick. Your person who

4
00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:22,720
Speaker 1: is involved with another individual who is at minimum equally

5
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 1: as evil as you are, but maybe a tad bitten

6
00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 1: Moore and the police strike a deal with you to

7
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:39,479
Speaker 1: testify against the other person. And here's the kicker. This

8
00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,280
Speaker 1: is the best deal you're going to get if you

9
00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:48,600
Speaker 1: testify for the state. This is what you're going to receive,

10
00:00:51,880 --> 00:01:01,680
Speaker 1: a life sentence plus fifty years that must be served

11
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:09,680
Speaker 1: in full. Does that spark your interest? Does that give

12
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 1: you an indication of how grotesque and horrible the case

13
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:21,319
Speaker 1: is that we're about to break down for you. I

14
00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,960
Speaker 1: think it might be a place to start. I'm Joseph

15
00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Body Bags. Brother Dave. You

16
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,400
Speaker 1: sat down a few minutes ago, and I could see

17
00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:40,240
Speaker 1: that look in your eye that you get every now

18
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,640
Speaker 1: and then, not with every case, but every now and then.

19
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,760
Speaker 1: And do you remember what I asked you just a

20
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:47,400
Speaker 1: second ago?

21
00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, scrubbing the brain. Yeah. Hey, Today, we're going to

22
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,920
Speaker 2: tell you the story about Sean Finnigan and how he

23
00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,840
Speaker 2: is accused of conspiring with his girlfriend, Rebecca Dishman, to

24
00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,200
Speaker 2: lure Jennifer Paxton to his home in Oakridge, Tennessee, with

25
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,760
Speaker 2: the promise of giving her a warm place to stay. However,

26
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 2: once miss Paxton was in the house, investigators say the

27
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,320
Speaker 2: couple attacked her with a baseball bat, then raped her

28
00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:20,320
Speaker 2: and tortured her, and then during the investigation of all this,

29
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,880
Speaker 2: they uncovered another crime. This time Finnegan is separately accused

30
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,639
Speaker 2: of sexually abusing a child three years old or younger,

31
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,080
Speaker 2: and that occurred in May of twenty twenty. It goes

32
00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,600
Speaker 2: beyond the pale of what we can imagine, but read

33
00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:41,000
Speaker 2: becka Dishman. She had to She's actually going to have

34
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 2: to serve an additional fifty years to if she no

35
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,200
Speaker 2: matter what else happens, she has to serve an additional

36
00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 2: fifty years at one hundred percent.

37
00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,960
Speaker 1: You know, and I don't hear that. I've never heard

38
00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,240
Speaker 1: that term. I know that it just because I haven't

39
00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,560
Speaker 1: heard it doesn't mean that people don't say it or

40
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,639
Speaker 1: it's not part of the mechanism that exists out there.

41
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,880
Speaker 1: But it was uniquely worded. It was almost like, I

42
00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:13,240
Speaker 1: don't know an exclamation point on how horrific this is.

43
00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:21,440
Speaker 1: And you know, this person that has helped facilitate I

44
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,040
Speaker 1: think that you and I could could both say was

45
00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,680
Speaker 1: one of the most horrific cases that we've heard of.

46
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,079
Speaker 1: It certainly ranks up there with anything that we have covered.

47
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,000
Speaker 1: She's only twenty five day. Put that in perspective. This

48
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,040
Speaker 1: young lady, her name is actually Rebecca Dishman, who had

49
00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,640
Speaker 1: to testify in this case. She's only twenty five, so

50
00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:50,400
Speaker 1: she's she's looking at literally a lifetime, right, you know,

51
00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're I think the top end for

52
00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,520
Speaker 1: women in the United States is seventy eight on average,

53
00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,160
Speaker 1: just do the Riysthk metic there and you get an

54
00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:06,240
Speaker 1: idea of how long she's going to be behind bars

55
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,520
Speaker 1: for that period of time. And then on top of

56
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,040
Speaker 1: that this fifty years. And Dave, I'll go ahead and

57
00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,760
Speaker 1: and you know say that I don't know that you

58
00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 1: can compare the two crimes here that we're talking about.

59
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:29,000
Speaker 1: They're both sexually motivated, but the one for fifty years

60
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:34,160
Speaker 1: actually involves involves the rape of a child that's three

61
00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:39,159
Speaker 1: years of age or younger, Dave, and this woman helped

62
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:45,839
Speaker 1: facilitate that, and it would appear that the primary suspect

63
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,479
Speaker 1: that she's testifying against actually facilitated this, and she's an

64
00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,240
Speaker 1: adjunct to this at twenty five years of age. Go

65
00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 1: ahead and kind of break this down to us, man,

66
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:56,280
Speaker 1: because OK, I to tell you.

67
00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,880
Speaker 2: When the secondary story to what we're talking about today

68
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,839
Speaker 2: takes up this much time at the beginning, it shows

69
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 2: you the shocking nature of this particular crime. Our victim

70
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,320
Speaker 2: is a thirty six year old woman named Jennifer Paxton.

71
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:19,080
Speaker 2: Jennifer Paxton is lured by Rebecca Dishman, who's twenty five,

72
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,479
Speaker 2: and Sean Finnigin, who's fifty six years old and works

73
00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,840
Speaker 2: in a bar in Knoxville called The Pint. He and

74
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:28,960
Speaker 2: Jennifer Paxton are known one another for a while. She

75
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,080
Speaker 2: comes into the Pint uses the restroom. She's kind of

76
00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:36,720
Speaker 2: a nomad, lives her life is it's tough. She does

77
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 2: see her family though once a month she goes by

78
00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,840
Speaker 2: and sees the family, gets some money and goes back

79
00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 2: out and does her thing. But Jennifer Paxton is friendly

80
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,040
Speaker 2: enough with Sean Finnegan and is a girlfriend Rebecca Dishman

81
00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,720
Speaker 2: that when they invite her to stay with them at

82
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,279
Speaker 2: their apartment. She takes them up on it. It's December.

83
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,000
Speaker 2: It's called as twenty nineteen, December of twenty nineteen. Now

84
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,720
Speaker 2: what happens is the minute Jennifer Paxton and walked into

85
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,680
Speaker 2: that apartment, she enters the gates of hell. They beat

86
00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,120
Speaker 2: her with a baseball bat, They shackle her to a bed,

87
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,839
Speaker 2: and then they rape her. Now we don't know at

88
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,599
Speaker 2: what point in time they killed her. We know they

89
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:19,000
Speaker 2: killed her with a ligature, but Joe, we really don't

90
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,279
Speaker 2: know when that happened, how long she was torture. We

91
00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,719
Speaker 2: know that she went in there sometime in December, between

92
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,600
Speaker 2: December first and December thirty first.

93
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,919
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, of twenty nineteen. This goes back. This is

94
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:35,440
Speaker 1: pre COVID, you know, going back, going back to that

95
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,520
Speaker 1: period of time. And here's another little interesting aside about this.

96
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:49,279
Speaker 1: Finnegan had been known and was known prior to the

97
00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:57,680
Speaker 1: COVID pandemic that he had had two girlfriends in the

98
00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,960
Speaker 1: past living with him. And I think that that and

99
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,880
Speaker 1: people would would you know, laugh about that with him,

100
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 1: you know, that sort of thing. And they were aware

101
00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 1: that he had two women that would reside with him

102
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:18,920
Speaker 1: and one eventually left, and so he's he's in this

103
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:24,680
Speaker 1: apartment with dishman that they have shared this home together

104
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,040
Speaker 1: during this period of time, and it's almost dave as

105
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:34,760
Speaker 1: if they were looking for a third perhaps and whatever

106
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,720
Speaker 1: the situation is. And it actually reminds me of a

107
00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:42,840
Speaker 1: case that I covered when I first did body backs,

108
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:48,320
Speaker 1: first started bodybacks of this alluring thing. I had a

109
00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,680
Speaker 1: case in New Orleans that I had that I had

110
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:56,840
Speaker 1: actually worked, where I had a lady that lured a

111
00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,480
Speaker 1: gentleman back to her apartment from a bar, and when

112
00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,680
Speaker 1: they got back to her apartment, her boyfriend was waiting

113
00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,640
Speaker 1: there with a claw hammer and beat this other man

114
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,640
Speaker 1: to death, and then that couple had sex on top

115
00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,080
Speaker 1: of this guy's corpse, and then they stuffed him into

116
00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:21,000
Speaker 1: a sofa and turned the heat or turned the air

117
00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,400
Speaker 1: all the way down to try to keep keep the environment.

118
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,800
Speaker 1: And this this plays into this case as well, try

119
00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:34,480
Speaker 1: to keep the environment down at at a manageable cooler

120
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,960
Speaker 1: level so that the body would not decay at a

121
00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,480
Speaker 1: particular at a normal rate. Of course, it turned out

122
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,120
Speaker 1: that it didn't work that way, and a psychic actually

123
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,840
Speaker 1: got involved in that case and actually pointed us to

124
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,600
Speaker 1: where the body was found out in a landfill inside

125
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:52,240
Speaker 1: of a sofa.

126
00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,200
Speaker 2: So it was a fascin New Orleans case.

127
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,000
Speaker 1: That was the New Orleans case. Yeah, so I've seen

128
00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:03,080
Speaker 1: I've actually seen this happen before, this idea of luring

129
00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,320
Speaker 1: to bring somebody in and you know, you have to

130
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,600
Speaker 1: enter into you have this, you have Dishman and Finnigan

131
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:18,320
Speaker 1: entering into a conspiracy together or a confederacy certainly, you know,

132
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,000
Speaker 1: to try to lure an individual in so that they

133
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,480
Speaker 1: can use essentially as a plaything. And Dave, that's what

134
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:30,040
Speaker 1: actually occurred here. They reduced You know, people go on

135
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:35,120
Speaker 1: and on about the term objectification all the time, you know,

136
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 1: with the way you know women dress and this sort

137
00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:42,120
Speaker 1: of thing. This is the ultimate and objectification. You take

138
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,959
Speaker 1: this poor woman and she literally becomes something less than

139
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,679
Speaker 1: human in the eyes of her attackers, and they can

140
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,680
Speaker 1: do anything they want to. And buddy, did they ever

141
00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:53,440
Speaker 1: in this case.

142
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,280
Speaker 2: Now we know that between December first and December thirty

143
00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:02,600
Speaker 2: first to twenty nineteen, Jennifer Paxton was yes, but we

144
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,560
Speaker 2: don't know the exact date, which means we don't know

145
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:10,959
Speaker 2: how long Jennifer Paxton was kept in that apartment alive

146
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:16,040
Speaker 2: to be abused, as you mentioned, as a plaything. We

147
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,839
Speaker 2: know that. And you brought up something very interesting a

148
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,800
Speaker 2: minute ago that at the bar where Finnigan works, they

149
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,360
Speaker 2: use a baseball bat behind the bar. When a fight

150
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,360
Speaker 2: breaks out, they would bash this bar, this bat on

151
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,400
Speaker 2: the bar to draw attention so that the employees could

152
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,280
Speaker 2: come and gather and get the fight over with, right right,

153
00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,840
Speaker 2: And in this case, a baseball bat was used as

154
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:46,160
Speaker 2: the means of beating her about the head. I hate

155
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,560
Speaker 2: to assume, but I can't imagine any other place on

156
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,520
Speaker 2: the body where one would be immediately.

157
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,760
Speaker 1: You know, Well, that's that's quite interesting because when they

158
00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:01,880
Speaker 1: you know, they do obviously examine this poor woman's remains

159
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,400
Speaker 1: very carefully. And it goes back to something else you

160
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,920
Speaker 1: and I have talked about that we do in forensics,

161
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 1: and that is resolution of injuries. And that's key here, Dave,

162
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:21,200
Speaker 1: because listen, this poor woman she had the family remembers

163
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,400
Speaker 1: having seen her and talked to her just prior to

164
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,600
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving or right at Thanksgiving, because she would come around

165
00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,079
Speaker 1: to she had no means. Okay, she would come around

166
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:37,280
Speaker 1: to her grandmother's house and her grandmother received an SSI

167
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:42,480
Speaker 1: check and grandmother would always give her money.

168
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, her grandmother was more of a motherly

169
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:45,760
Speaker 2: fe she was.

170
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 1: And she actually viewed her, according to her other relatives,

171
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,679
Speaker 1: she viewed her grandmother as her mom and very sad

172
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,840
Speaker 1: state of affairs, unfortunately, but that's the life that she had.

173
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,080
Speaker 1: Many people have have issues in their lives, you know,

174
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,880
Speaker 1: and you can't escape that, and that's that was her reality.

175
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,719
Speaker 1: So with her, she would come around and that's how

176
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,120
Speaker 1: the family kind of kept track of it. They knew

177
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,240
Speaker 1: they could set their clock by it. She would she

178
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 1: would come back around at least once a month to

179
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:24,160
Speaker 1: collect the check and she she would be seen. Interestingly enough,

180
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:29,679
Speaker 1: her cousin had had actually testified in this case that

181
00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:35,680
Speaker 1: she saw her. She thought she saw her at maybe

182
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:40,319
Speaker 1: the end of November or the very beginning of December,

183
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:48,080
Speaker 1: walking in the area adjacent to the pint where Finigan worked,

184
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,800
Speaker 1: and she stated at that time that she appeared to

185
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:56,000
Speaker 1: be very thin, more thinner than she normally was, and

186
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,160
Speaker 1: so that that's she kind of drops off of the

187
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:03,200
Speaker 1: map at that point in time. And you know, it's

188
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:08,000
Speaker 1: at this point in tom you know, when it's I'm

189
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,240
Speaker 1: not going to use the word fascinating it's sickening to

190
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,880
Speaker 1: think that there are predators that are out there and

191
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,600
Speaker 1: this is generally their mo where they see somebody that

192
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 1: is in need of something. And as you'd mentioned, those

193
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:26,679
Speaker 1: East Tennessee winters, they get pretty chilly, and she's staring

194
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:32,440
Speaker 1: down the barrel of approaching winter tom late fall, and

195
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,400
Speaker 1: she needs somewhere to rest her head, somewhere to say

196
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:42,599
Speaker 1: that she has safety, somewhere where she can be warm. Unfortunately,

197
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:58,800
Speaker 1: it was a monster who was offering these comforts to her. Dave,

198
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:03,880
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, I don't know. I've often

199
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:09,559
Speaker 1: thought of people that commit these horrific crimes that maybe

200
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:17,199
Speaker 1: just maybe there's something that numbs them to the humanity

201
00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 1: of the others that they're inflicting pain upon. And it

202
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 1: would seem to me, at least that Dishman, this woman

203
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:36,800
Speaker 1: that was essentially a confederate of Finnegan, I think that

204
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:42,560
Speaker 1: maybe her conscience got the best of her. Maybe she

205
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:48,080
Speaker 1: sensed that And here's the thing that her time maybe

206
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,560
Speaker 1: up because she had witnessed some things that if you

207
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,680
Speaker 1: and I sat down and we were trying to create

208
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:56,600
Speaker 1: some kind of story, first off, I wouldn't hope these

209
00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 1: things would enter into our lexicon, are into our mind.

210
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,640
Speaker 1: But she had borne witness to all of this, and

211
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,960
Speaker 1: I have to think that that it didn't matter where

212
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,560
Speaker 1: the safety was coming from. She wanted to feel like

213
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 1: she was going to be safe because this guy Finnegan

214
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,800
Speaker 1: apparently turns out to be pure evil.

215
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,360
Speaker 2: Between December one and December thirty, first, she is attacked

216
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 2: with a baseball bat. She has shackled to a bed

217
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 2: and then strangled, But in that process she was raped

218
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:34,200
Speaker 2: and abused. No telling how many times, how many days.

219
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,560
Speaker 2: We have no way of knowing that right now, and

220
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,560
Speaker 2: that boggles my mind. With everything we have forensically, Joe,

221
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:44,000
Speaker 2: that we don't know, we cannot determine exactly what happened

222
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,440
Speaker 2: during that thirty one day period of time in the

223
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,040
Speaker 2: life of Jennifer Paxton.

224
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's hard, and I'll give you the reason why,

225
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,960
Speaker 1: and I find it. The thing is, it's rather ironic

226
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:06,200
Speaker 1: that she was Miss Paxton was attempting to escape those

227
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,240
Speaker 1: cold nights that she was faced with in Knoxviall. And

228
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,160
Speaker 1: maybe the danger for those of you all that have

229
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,760
Speaker 1: never been to Knoxwell and Knoxvill's a medium sized town.

230
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a university town, big downtown. You do

231
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,440
Speaker 1: have a significant homeless population there. There are encampments, that

232
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,600
Speaker 1: sort of thing, the stuff that you encounter with larger

233
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:30,560
Speaker 1: cities anyway. And you know, the opportunity. Can you imagine

234
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,000
Speaker 1: being somebody living on the streets and then all of

235
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 1: a sudden somebody offers you the opportunity to go to Oakridge,

236
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:44,040
Speaker 1: which is known literally, I tell people this all the

237
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,720
Speaker 1: time Huntsville, I think it's Huntsville, Alabama, and Oakridge, Tennessee

238
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,440
Speaker 1: have the highest per capita concentration of PhDs of anywhere

239
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,800
Speaker 1: in the United States. It's because Oakridge Lapse is there,

240
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 1: you know where actually I think the first atomic device

241
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:04,359
Speaker 1: was actually developed, or the beginnings of it in secret. Yeah,

242
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:09,000
Speaker 1: And so you're going from this kind of squalid environment

243
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,360
Speaker 1: that you're having to exist in and somebody says, hey,

244
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,480
Speaker 1: you want to go to oak Ridge. It's right down

245
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,359
Speaker 1: the road. We can take you there. We've got a nice,

246
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,080
Speaker 1: warm place for you to stay. But you know when

247
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:26,960
Speaker 1: when Finnegan opened the door to this place and Dishman

248
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,560
Speaker 1: is there, they begin to attack her. Now this is

249
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:35,400
Speaker 1: coming from Dishman herself, begin to attack her. And it's

250
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 1: at this point in time that they literally chain her

251
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:45,680
Speaker 1: to a bed. She is raped upon her arrival there

252
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,000
Speaker 1: after having been beaten with a bat so early on

253
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:56,880
Speaker 1: in this captivity, she's already been sustaining severe physical abuse.

254
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,160
Speaker 1: The problem is, and this is where the irony comes in,

255
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:07,719
Speaker 1: is that after she is killed Dave in this apartment,

256
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:14,880
Speaker 1: her body is placed into a stand up cooler. And

257
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,320
Speaker 1: that's kind of interesting because Finnegan had a relationship with

258
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 1: a local rent to buy establishment. I think it's a

259
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,680
Speaker 1: renaissent or if I'm not mistaken, And the actual delivery

260
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,680
Speaker 1: guy testified in the case he was given specific instructions

261
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,960
Speaker 1: and here's a big clue to leave he rented this thing.

262
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,760
Speaker 1: Finnegan did a stand up freezer. Leave it on the

263
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,680
Speaker 1: front porch, will bring it in, Okay. You know most

264
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,040
Speaker 1: of the time, if I've got a piece of furniture

265
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:47,920
Speaker 1: or something like that that I'm going to have delivered,

266
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 1: I want I want it all. I want you to

267
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 1: bring it in the house. As a matter of fact,

268
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,240
Speaker 1: I want you to set it up for me and everything. No, no, no, no,

269
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,879
Speaker 1: you leave it there. I'll get it when I get home.

270
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 1: And the sale olsman, the worker actually said he was

271
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,199
Speaker 1: known with Finnegan was known to them, and that he

272
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,200
Speaker 1: always paid his bills on tom and even that where

273
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,199
Speaker 1: Finnegan worked at the Pint, they said he was a

274
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 1: reliable employee, that he was always there, And that just

275
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 1: goes to show you, you know, that you don't really

276
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 1: know what's going on behind closed doors. Finnegan knew, and

277
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 1: he knew that he had a deceased woman on his hands.

278
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 1: We think that might be the case. This is the

279
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:32,200
Speaker 1: trick though, had he premeditated her death, maybe she was

280
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 1: still alive in there and he said, you know what,

281
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to order a cooler, a freezer, if you

282
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 1: will have it brought to the house, and when I

283
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 1: do finally kill her, I'm going to store in there.

284
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 1: Because her death that these two brought about, that wasn't

285
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 1: the end of what they were going to do with

286
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: this poor woman's remains. Dave and so our timelines get

287
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 1: very much skewed when we're trying to understand the type

288
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:07,680
Speaker 1: of trauma she sustained, when she sustained it, and how

289
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 1: long it had gone on for. So that piece to this,

290
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 1: which is one of the biggest pieces of investigated data

291
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 1: that we can collect the timeline is all skewed. And

292
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,960
Speaker 1: that's because her body, when it was finally recovered, was

293
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 1: frozen through and through, Dave.

294
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,159
Speaker 2: And here's what makes me wonder about everything, Joe. You

295
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 2: say she's frozen through and through. We know Fennigen orders

296
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 2: the freezer from Renaissenter on December twenty seventh, and yet

297
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 2: we also know they beat her with a bat, they

298
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 2: shackled her to a bed, they raped her. But we

299
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 2: don't know when she was murdered. We don't know that

300
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,919
Speaker 2: exact date. I don't know if there's a way we

301
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,680
Speaker 2: can even know that. We just know that it didn't

302
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 2: happen the first day she was there.

303
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 1: No. No, this was a lengthy process. And there have

304
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: been a number of perpetrators over the year, over the

305
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: years that have done this. They've held people captive and

306
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 1: have used them as essentially sex slaves or you know,

307
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 1: I'll go back to this idea of objective objectification, where

308
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 1: you can dehumanize an individual to the point where they

309
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 1: become entertainment. Uh. For for these these monsters like this,

310
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 1: it's really difficult. Now the answer is going to lie, Dave,

311
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 1: in the examination of of herb tissues, Uh not just

312
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 1: in the sense of at autopsy, but also with the

313
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,360
Speaker 1: histological results that are going to come back. And when

314
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 1: I say histology, if you if if our if our

315
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:51,199
Speaker 1: listeners have have watched programs where autopsies are being performed

316
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: and you see the doctor not necessarily over the body,

317
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 1: but over a cutting board. This is where we actually

318
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 1: dissect the organs that come out of the body. We

319
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 1: take sections of those organs day and so when we

320
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: take sections of those organs, they are actually prepared by

321
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: a histologist who will take a section of an organ,

322
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 1: place it in paraffin a wax block, and they'll begin

323
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 1: to slice it. And it's stained a particular way so

324
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: that there's different types of stains that are used, so

325
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: that brings out certain features in the tissue, and you

326
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: can look at it microscopically, and so a physician will

327
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 1: look at these things and begin to get an idea

328
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 1: as to the rate of decomposition. Perhaps if there's evidence

329
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: of decomposition at a cellular level. In some cases, they

330
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 1: can determine if a body had in fact been frozen.

331
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: But the trick is to try to do the calculation

332
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: so that you can ballpark it. And again that's why

333
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 1: we've got this very broad time window here, and I

334
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: don't know that there's any way that you can narrow

335
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: it down any further. I don't necessarily think that Dishman

336
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 1: aided them in this as to when she was actually killed.

337
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: When she was actually murdered, we know how this occurred.

338
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: But Dave, I got to tell you, the torture, the pain,

339
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: and the trauma that this woman endured for that time

340
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: that she was with this couple is the stuff of nightmares.

341
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: So let's just say you're a police officer and you

342
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: have information about a missing woman. You have information that

343
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 1: indicates that there's a high likelihood that this woman that

344
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 1: is missing is in fact deceased, and you go to

345
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: the suspect's home. You begin to search the home and

346
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: look through it, and in a closet there stands a

347
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: stand up freezer looks like a refrigerator, but it is

348
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 1: literally a deep freeze that a small person and that

349
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: comes into play here could actually stand in and the

350
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: door be closed, but it's empty, it's completely empty, and

351
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: it appears to be recently cleaned. You're looking around, you

352
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: get down on your knees, and you see something in

353
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: this bedroom that is beneath a bed. You stick your

354
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: hand beneath the bed, and you recoil in horror. The

355
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: reason you recoil is because what you're touching beneath the

356
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: bed is an icy, cold, frozen body. Dave, this blew

357
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: my mind when I heard this, because apparently Finnegan had

358
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: become aware that the police knew that he had some

359
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: kind of involvement in Miss Packson's death, and a lieutenant

360
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: in this particular case that gave testimony in this trial

361
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: actually states that he recoiled when he touched the item

362
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: beneath the bed, and it was apparently covered in plastic.

363
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: And the reason he recoiled is you don't expect to

364
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: feel something beneath the bed that is that cold. Just

365
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 1: imagine going into your freezer at home and you put

366
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: your hand on an item inside the freezer and it's warm.

367
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: That's an indication that either it's been freshly placed in there,

368
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: or your freezer's no longer working. Try to reverse that

369
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: now and think, well, this isn't a frozen environment, but

370
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: yet what I'm touching right here is distinctly frozen. I

371
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: don't know how would how I would react, but it

372
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: was the lieutenant's testimony gave an indication that it was

373
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: quite shocking to him.

374
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 2: I can't think of anything comparable, Joe that to find

375
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 2: something freezing cold that you expect to be at least

376
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: room temperature, you know, and knowing they're looking for a body,

377
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 2: they are looking for Jennifer Paxton, and seeing something that

378
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: really does look like I have found her, and touching

379
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 2: it knowing it's freezing cold, that would be a freak show.

380
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 2: You're beyond anything I can imagine. But once you get

381
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 2: past that, I want to go back for a minute,

382
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 2: because you mentioned the freezer was cleaned out, there was

383
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 2: some type of warning. We know that Jennifer Paxton last

384
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 2: seen and murdered sometime during the month of December twenty nineteen.

385
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 2: This is August of twenty twenty. This is a full

386
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: eight months plus later, and Finigan had been tipped off

387
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: and is able to move her body from the freezer

388
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,239
Speaker 2: to under the bed. But can you tell when the

389
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: body is in the freezer? Does it decompose at the

390
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 2: same rate as it would at a cellular level if

391
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 2: it was in a different place. Is there a way

392
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 2: that you can track this? The only thing we really

393
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 2: have is We know when the freezer was delivered to

394
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 2: his house, but we don't know if she was dead

395
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 2: at that time or if he was planning to kill

396
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 2: her at that time.

397
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: Under normal circumstances, which there are very few normal circumstances

398
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: in any death. But let's just say normal day to

399
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: day life. And we've got ambient temperatures seventy two degrees,

400
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: because that's when most testing has occurred over the years.

401
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: Relative to in a broad sense, relative to determination a

402
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 1: post more amenable, that's ideal conditions. Okay, now you skew

403
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: this data where you're not increasing temperature or environmental temperature,

404
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: you're decreasing it. And you ask a very salient question

405
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: here regarding the slowing of decomposition. You can never, and

406
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: I mean never, completely stop decomposition. I would imagine you

407
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: probably could at if you went sub zero perhaps, but

408
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: at a cellular level, I'm so proud of you for

409
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: using that term. By the way, at a cellular level,

410
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: you're going to actually still see the process of decomposition

411
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 1: going on. It's very difficult to dial and into to

412
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: the point where you can say, okay, it stopped, it

413
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: started here, stopped here, then restarted because that might be

414
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: what you're looking at, and let me tell you why.

415
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: And this is absolutely horrible. There were terrible things that

416
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: were done to this woman in life, dave trauma that

417
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: she sustained and I'm talking about superficial cuts and bruises

418
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: that are all over her body. But there were things

419
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: that were done. Because we have to keep in mind

420
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: these two Finegan and Dishman are both charged with it,

421
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: with the abuse of a corpse, and I'm going to

422
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: give you a little insight into why they were charged

423
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: with this. We do know that she had in excess

424
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: of fifty injuries on her body. Some of these are

425
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: going to be postmortem insults, some of these are going

426
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: to be anti mortem insults. And of course the choking

427
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: is in addition, because it is our strangulation with a literature,

428
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: this is going to be a peri mortem, which means

429
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: in the throes of.

430
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: Death, the strangulation hold on. The strangulation happened as she

431
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: was in the throes of death.

432
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that brings about her death at that moment

433
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: in time. And so let's just say for instance, okay,

434
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: let's say let's say this. For instance, if you have

435
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: an instance where in the anti mortem state, which means

436
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: in life, you sustain a bruise, Okay, in life, you

437
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: will get a reaction by the tissue. Uh. First off,

438
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: you're going to see hemorrhage appear in the immediate but

439
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: then you'll see this kind of restoration begin to take

440
00:30:55,240 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: place as those injuries resolve. With a pery mortem injury,

441
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: you can have evidence that there was hemorrhage into a

442
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: specific area but no repair started. That's really you know

443
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: how you that's kind of an oversimplification, but that gives

444
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: you an idea that that's a pery mortem event, that

445
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: it's happening while blood is flowing. And the emmy actually

446
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: talks about this in this case, she gave a workshop

447
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: in this I'm going to go into this in just

448
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: a second, but she talks about there was still blood

449
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: flow into an area, but there's no evidence that anything

450
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: was being healed or repaired. So that gives you this

451
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: is a peri mortem event. And of course everything that

452
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: you have that's a post mortem injury, you're not going

453
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: to have any hemorrhage at all. And that goes to

454
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: like looking at the slides of the sections you take, Dave,

455
00:31:54,520 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and tell tell everyone Packson's nose was missing.

456
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: They cut her nose off, just so that folks understand that.

457
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: And when the police began to look at what they

458
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: had discovered at the scene, I can only imagine the

459
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: horror that kind of Even as seasoned as I was

460
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: as a death investigator, this is the type of thing

461
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: that would give me pause. I would probably have to

462
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: stand up, walk away, catch my breath, and then go

463
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: back at it again with my examination and assessment because

464
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: the trauma that was inflicted upon her. She had multiple

465
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: cuts all over her face, she had cuts over the

466
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: surface of her torso and Dave the doctor, described that

467
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: she had a circumferential dissection of one of her breast

468
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: where the areola and the nipple was completely removed on

469
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: one breast. That means that this individual took this knife,

470
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: and she stated the me did that he very carefully

471
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: removed removed that portion of the breast, and he had

472
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: gone to work on the other one but never finished.

473
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: And then there were other injuries that she had on

474
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: her body that she said, we're I'm kind of paraphrasing here,

475
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: but essentially we're not as well thought out and were

476
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: more randomized. If you will, so you have to think

477
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: she's being tortured while she's alive. The assessment has to

478
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: come in how many of these injuries and insults did

479
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: her body sustain in life that are part of a

480
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: torturing process with her, Dave, and how much of this

481
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: and this is where it goes to if it can

482
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: possibly go to another horrific level where he is actually

483
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: we talked about objectification earlier, where he's dehumanizing this poor woman.

484
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: He's actually going back and playing with the body in

485
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: a post wartem sense where he is abusing a corpse.

486
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: There's probably a lot more to this from a sexual standpoint.

487
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 1: I think the motivation behind this for him to do

488
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: this and the idea of retaining anything that is there,

489
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: what you're rational for that? Why do you want to

490
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: do this? Why do you want to hang on to

491
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: these elements? Why do you want to essentially do this

492
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: half assed dissection on this poor unfortunate soul before you?

493
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: What is it within your brain that's causing you to

494
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: do this? I know this when the chief medical examiner

495
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: for Knox in Anderson County, she stood up in Dave,

496
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, this was a brilliant move

497
00:34:55,160 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: in the courtroom with her. They brought in a posable

498
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: mannequin that is essentially this white kind of foamy structure

499
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: that has human human form, and Dave, she used these

500
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: little red felt stick ons that she had. Those represented

501
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: all of the cuts. Okay, and when you see this thing,

502
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: and I urge anybody that can go to YouTube and

503
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: watch this recreation, it's textbook. She placed the red little

504
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: felt cutouts all over this woman's body. Then she took

505
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: black ones and put them all over her body. Those

506
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: represented contusions where she had been beaten. And they're all

507
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: kind of interlaced like this, all over the remains. And

508
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: the reporters that were in court when they were putting

509
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: these images, the autopsy images up, they said that many

510
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: of the jury members have to turn away because they

511
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: could not they could not believe what they were going

512
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: to say. Even the judge from the bench actually said, now,

513
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I've got to warn you,

514
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: because the judge has already seen all of this, I've

515
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: got to warn you what you're about to see is

516
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 1: going to be quite disturbing. And you know, many times

517
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 1: you'll have an attorney, a defense attorney that will object

518
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: to this because they'll say that it's a prejudicial I've

519
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: had to sit in court in pre trial motions and

520
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 1: go through hundreds of photographs to try to decide between

521
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 1: and having the prosecution and the defense argue over what's

522
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: the value in the photograph? What's the value in the photograph?

523
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: You know it's going to be prejudicial, Dave, You can't

524
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: escape this in this case because this is the sum

525
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: total of the case, the trauma that was inflected upon her.

526
00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 2: When it says that her body had slices on her face, back, arms, wrist, hands, abdomen, pelvis,

527
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: and buttocks, her nose have been removed with a sharp knife,

528
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 2: and the slices were precise. The slices into her abdomen

529
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: were very deep, but they were considered haphazard without the

530
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 2: opposite of what was seen with the nose. Could this

531
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 2: indicate two different people doing this to the body?

532
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose it could, or it could be more.

533
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: You know, when you have this kind of exactitude all right,

534
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: in inflicting these kinds of injuries, that gives me an

535
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: indication that maybe she's in a post mortem state. When

536
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: that occurs. The horror is when you see this kind

537
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: of haphazard way of cutting and this is this is

538
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: quite chilling, and you know, the doctor talked about that

539
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: there were so many injuries that could potentially be evidence

540
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: of torture. Can you imagine having a knife plunged into

541
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: your stomach and you're having to lay there with the

542
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: pain of that knowing what's going on. And he's not

543
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: according to Dishman, Finnegan is not averse to this type

544
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: of thing. And Dishman actually testified that for her experience

545
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: with him, he had kept her in a dog cage

546
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: sodom Monster regularly defecated and urinated on her regularly, and

547
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: this was kind of the standard practice for him with Dishman,

548
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: and that I don't know that she was complicit in

549
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: these you know, in these acts. She's twenty three years old,

550
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: so she's not a child old, you know, she's she's

551
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: an adult, and she's working alongside him. Remember, she's part

552
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: of the allureing here, you know, to get miss Paxon

553
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: into this apartment so they can do whatever they want

554
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 1: to with her. And it's also important to remember that

555
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: that Dishman entered in as part of this crime with

556
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: this three or under year old child that that they've

557
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: sexually abused together. Apparently, it's just it. It goes so

558
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: into the depths of the darkest part of human experience.

559
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,439
Speaker 1: It's it's almost unmeasurable. Dave.

560
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: One of the things that came out at trial was

561
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 2: the strangulation because they're trying to they still haven't found

562
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 2: the baseball bat and you mentioned to me that the

563
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: bat from the bar is also missing. Yes, so you've

564
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: got that bat missing. They can't find bat that was

565
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 2: used to beat Jennifer with, but they were talking about

566
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 2: the strangulation of what was used for that. At trial,

567
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 2: the state asked the doctor that did the autopsy if

568
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 2: a shoelace would be consistent with Paxton's injuries around her neck,

569
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: and she said yes, so indicating they believe a shoelace

570
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 2: may have been used to strangle her.

571
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, they actually found a shoe, a pair of shoes

572
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: that one of the shoelaces was missing from, and Dishman

573
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: actually confirmed this. Dishman gave very chilling testimony in this

574
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: case in that she watched Finnegan as he choked her

575
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: with the shoelace. Dishman also stated that she got down

576
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: on her hands and knees adjacent to this woman to

577
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: tell her goodbye. She watched her taking her final breaths

578
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: there before her very eyes. I have to think, Dave,

579
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: and this is just speculative on my part, that Dishman

580
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: probably felt like that she was going to wind up

581
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: in the same way that Miss Paxton had, and I

582
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: think that that's the reason that she bolted and left

583
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: this place, because you know, she bore witness to every

584
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: bit of this, the injuries that were sustained with a

585
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: baseball bat. Baseball as a baseball bat, as a bludgeoning tool,

586
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: the bat. Okay, it's kind of interesting because it makes

587
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: a very people don't think about the pattern that comes

588
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,959
Speaker 1: about when anyone struck with anything. If you think about

589
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: a flat surface like a piece of angle iron that

590
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: someone is struck with, that's going to have very distinct margins.

591
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: But when we think about the barrel of a baseball bat,

592
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: we're talking it's cylindrical obviously, and its taper too. When

593
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: someone is struck with a baseball bat, the skin actually

594
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: kind of rises up over the sides of the bat,

595
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: and the margins of that contusion are going to look

596
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: a bit distorted because of the elasticity of the skin,

597
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: so it will actually appear to be a bit broader

598
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: than it actually is, but it will have a definitive

599
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: top margin and bottom margin as the thing begins to

600
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 1: taper down there. It's the only thing I can really

601
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: compare it to. I've seen a couple of baseball bat

602
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: attacks before. In some instances, I've actually seen this bruising

603
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: pattern or contusion pattern look kind of like a fan

604
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: dave And if you can imagine that, how fan kind

605
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: of opens up like that, and the bat kind of

606
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: does that because the skin wraps around it when the

607
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: individual is struck. But suffice it to say, the end

608
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 1: of this woman's life was she was not surrounded by

609
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: people that cared for her. Her grandmother, who had been

610
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,760
Speaker 1: providing her with money periodically, was not there. Her cousins

611
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: were not there that might see her on the street

612
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: every now and then. She died in circumstances that most

613
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: of us can never imagine and hopefully will never experience.

614
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is bodybacks