WEBVTT - Operation Sundevil and the Birth of the EFF - Part One

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<v Speaker 1>Get in text with technology with tech Stuff from half

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<v Speaker 1>stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tex Stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I am your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer

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<v Speaker 1>here at how Stuff Works, and I want to talk

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<v Speaker 1>today about something really fascinating. First, I'm gonna give you

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<v Speaker 1>guys a little peek behind the curtain. Typically, when I

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<v Speaker 1>decide upon a topic, let's say it's one that I've

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<v Speaker 1>just decided I want to cover that wasn't necessarily a

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<v Speaker 1>request from a listener, sometimes I find out through my

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<v Speaker 1>research that I've made an error in judgment. Right. I

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<v Speaker 1>might discover that perhaps the topic I wanted to cover

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<v Speaker 1>isn't as interesting as I thought, or that there is

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<v Speaker 1>some aspect of it that is more interesting than what

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<v Speaker 1>I thought the story was going to be about. So

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<v Speaker 1>that's the case with today's episode. I was originally going

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<v Speaker 1>to do an episode just about how the Electronic Frontier

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<v Speaker 1>Foundation works, the e f F, and I probably still

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<v Speaker 1>will do that, in fact, it might be the episode

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<v Speaker 1>that follows this one. But as I was researching this,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was researching the whole founding of the e

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<v Speaker 1>f F, it made me dive into a deeper and

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<v Speaker 1>deeper investigation into the events that led up to the

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<v Speaker 1>necessity for the Electronic Frontier Foundation to become a thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And that story is so fascinating, and I was actually

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<v Speaker 1>surprised that I didn't know it. I don't have any

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<v Speaker 1>memory of hearing about this story, and it's possible that

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<v Speaker 1>I've just forgotten. But it's a story that I should

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<v Speaker 1>know for multiple reasons. One, it involves some people here

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<v Speaker 1>in Atlanta, where I am based. It too. It involves uh,

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<v Speaker 1>a big staying operation that the Secret Service did in

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<v Speaker 1>nine three. It involves a game company that I'm a

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<v Speaker 1>fan of and that had a tenuous, if best, connection

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<v Speaker 1>to all of the shenanigans that went on. So there's

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<v Speaker 1>all these different elements at play where I should have

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<v Speaker 1>known this story already, especially considering that I've done research

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<v Speaker 1>on hacking, and and yet I didn't really remember it.

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<v Speaker 1>And I thought, I want to tell this story, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's been told by other people, and it's been told

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<v Speaker 1>well by other people, but this is my stab at it.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're gonna talk about a big sting operation called

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<v Speaker 1>Operations Sun Devil, and we're gonna talk about how that

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<v Speaker 1>led to the formation of the Electronic Frontier Foundation or

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<v Speaker 1>the e f F. So let's talk a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>about the e f F in general, in case you're

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<v Speaker 1>not familiar with this organization. It's the leading nonprofit organization

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<v Speaker 1>defending civil liberties in the digital world, and it's based

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<v Speaker 1>in San Francisco, California. It's dedicated to promoting Internet civil liberty.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's a lot like the American Civil Liberties Union

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<v Speaker 1>or a c l U, except its specifically dedicated to

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<v Speaker 1>championing civil liberties in the realm of the Internet. So

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<v Speaker 1>online civil liberties for the most part is what it

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<v Speaker 1>focuses on. UH and the e f has a website. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>they have a very strong web presence, as you would

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<v Speaker 1>imagine considering their focus, and they have this specific statement

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<v Speaker 1>about their organization says, blending the expertise of lawyers, policy analysts, activists,

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<v Speaker 1>and technologists, e f F achieves significant victories on behalf

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<v Speaker 1>of consumers and the general public. E f fights for

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<v Speaker 1>freedom primarily in the courts, bringing and defending lawsuits, even

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<v Speaker 1>when that means taking on the US government or large corporations.

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<v Speaker 1>By mobilizing more than one d forty thousand concerned citizens

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<v Speaker 1>through our action center, e f F beats back back legislation.

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<v Speaker 1>In addition to advising policymakers, e f educates the press

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<v Speaker 1>and public. E f F is a donor funded nonprofit

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<v Speaker 1>and depends on your support to continue successfully defending your

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<v Speaker 1>digital rights. Litigation is particularly expensive because two thirds of

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<v Speaker 1>our budget comes from individual donors. Every contribution is critical

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<v Speaker 1>to helping e f fight and win more cases, so

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<v Speaker 1>it is a nonprofit. They do use that money to

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<v Speaker 1>help fund legal cases, either defending people from what they

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<v Speaker 1>see as an overreach on the part of various entities,

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<v Speaker 1>or to help people lay a claim against those entities

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<v Speaker 1>in the case where their their civil liberties were perhaps violated.

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<v Speaker 1>And as I as I said, as I was looking

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<v Speaker 1>into this organization, which I had heard a lot about obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>and I followed e f f H news stories for years,

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<v Speaker 1>and how they've supported concepts like net neutrality and online

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<v Speaker 1>privacy and other protections that they feel everyone should enjoy

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<v Speaker 1>as citizens of the internet. Uh, I had never really

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<v Speaker 1>looked into the backstory behind it. They do use their

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<v Speaker 1>funds to help provide for legal defense in cases in

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<v Speaker 1>which the organization determines the accused may have their civil

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<v Speaker 1>liberties infringed upon, and it was founded back in nine

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<v Speaker 1>in response to a threat to free speech. So here's

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<v Speaker 1>a quick overview and then we're gonna dive deep into

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<v Speaker 1>this story. The United States Secret Service was on a

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<v Speaker 1>mission back in the late eighties and early nineties which

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<v Speaker 1>was to track down the distribution of a document that

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<v Speaker 1>was copied off of a Bell South computer system. That

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<v Speaker 1>document described how enhanced emergency nine one one systems worked,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was called the Shorthand version was called the

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<v Speaker 1>E nine eleven document, and as opposed on Boing Boing

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<v Speaker 1>once said, it's an historic, incredibly dull technical document, which

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<v Speaker 1>is true. You would actually read it. You probably read

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<v Speaker 1>yourself to sleep pretty quickly. But it was also a

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<v Speaker 1>very important document detailing a very sensitive part of the

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<v Speaker 1>phone system infrastructure in regards to emergency systems, and it

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<v Speaker 1>ended up playing a big part in a huge nationwide

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<v Speaker 1>sweep of hackers that would later be known as Operation

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<v Speaker 1>Sun Devil. The United States Attorney's Office in Phoenix, Arizona,

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<v Speaker 1>would announce that operation on May nine, nine nine. The

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<v Speaker 1>day before May, law enforcement officials carried out twenty seven

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<v Speaker 1>search warrants. They made three actual arrests and carried out

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<v Speaker 1>operations and at least a dozen cities. Now, official accounts

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<v Speaker 1>from different agencies and different areas have a different number

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<v Speaker 1>of how many cities were involved, but it's usually at

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<v Speaker 1>the very least twelve and sometimes upwards of fourteen or fifteen.

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<v Speaker 1>The entities that were responsed bull or at least given

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<v Speaker 1>credit for operations on Devil would include the Assistant Attorney

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<v Speaker 1>General of Arizona, who is Gail Thackeray at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>the Assistant U S Attorney Tim Holtzon, and the U

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<v Speaker 1>S Secret Service. The Assistant Director of the Secret Service,

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<v Speaker 1>Gary M. Jenkins, gave a statement at the press event

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<v Speaker 1>that summarized the government's perspective. Uh here's a selection of

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<v Speaker 1>what Mr Jenkins said today. The Secret Service is sending

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<v Speaker 1>a clear message to those computer hackers who have decided

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<v Speaker 1>to violate the laws of this nation in the mistaken

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<v Speaker 1>belief that they can successfully avoid detection by hiding behind

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<v Speaker 1>the relative anonymity of their computer terminals. Underground groups have

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<v Speaker 1>been formed for the purpose of exchanging information relevant to

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<v Speaker 1>their criminal activities. These groups often communicate with each other

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<v Speaker 1>through message systems between computers called bulletin boards. Our experience

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<v Speaker 1>shows that many computer hackers suspects are no longer misguided

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<v Speaker 1>teenagers mischievously playing games with their computers in their bedrooms.

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<v Speaker 1>Some are now high tech computer operators using computers to

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<v Speaker 1>engage in unlawful conduct. This was a complicated statement to

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<v Speaker 1>make back in because technology was outpacing the legal system.

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<v Speaker 1>So while you could argue that some of the things

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<v Speaker 1>that were happening were against the law, it was a

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<v Speaker 1>lot more challenging to find which law it was against.

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<v Speaker 1>In some cases, it really didn't make sense to charge

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<v Speaker 1>the person with anything because there just weren't any laws

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<v Speaker 1>that were relevant in that case, which became extremely problematic.

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<v Speaker 1>Now the story dates way back further than if we

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<v Speaker 1>want to understand the series of events that led up

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<v Speaker 1>to Operations Sun Devil and then ultimately to the foundation

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<v Speaker 1>of the e f F. So this is gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a gather around the campfire and listen to

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<v Speaker 1>Grandpa tell you as a tail, that's what's happening right now.

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<v Speaker 1>So get some high coco, get some marshmallows for roasting.

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna have ourselves story time right now. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's a pretty fascinating story. Now to understand this, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I keep peeling back layers whenever I go

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<v Speaker 1>into history, and it always seems like I go further

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<v Speaker 1>back than I need to. But that's really so that

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<v Speaker 1>we can kind of see where things were headed when

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<v Speaker 1>the events were interested in really took off. So to

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<v Speaker 1>understand the hacker motivation, you have to look at previous movements,

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<v Speaker 1>things that kind of had that same sort of philosophy

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<v Speaker 1>that fed into the formation of hacker culture. And I

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<v Speaker 1>would argue that a lot of that grew primarily out

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<v Speaker 1>of an older movement called freaking. Freaking had to do

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<v Speaker 1>with phones, phone systems, not not computer systems. So you

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<v Speaker 1>think of hacker is to computer as freaker is to

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<v Speaker 1>phone systems. But we'll talk more about freaking in a second.

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<v Speaker 1>But freaking, in turn, was fueled in part by a

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<v Speaker 1>powerful anti authoritarian sentiment that was running in the United

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<v Speaker 1>States in the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies. This was

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<v Speaker 1>the time of political turmoil in the United States. The

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<v Speaker 1>Vietnam War had created an enormous cultural divide in the country,

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<v Speaker 1>with a growing population of people, mostly young people, feeling

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<v Speaker 1>underrepresented and exploited. Because it was the young people who

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<v Speaker 1>were being sent overseas in their mind just to die

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<v Speaker 1>in jungles, and a lot of people felt that no

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<v Speaker 1>one was listening to their voices, and this gave rise

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<v Speaker 1>to a movement, several movements. In fact, you had a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of different movements in the sixties and seventies, but

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<v Speaker 1>one in particular was called the Youth International Party, and

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<v Speaker 1>the members of this group called themselves Yippies. He had

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<v Speaker 1>hippies and yippies. Yippies were largely anarchists. They had a

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<v Speaker 1>deep distrust of authority and government. They also celebrated in

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<v Speaker 1>lots of acts that were hedonistic, perhaps, including things like

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<v Speaker 1>drug abuse and uh and sexual exploration. Stuff that's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of put towards the hippies as well. In this era

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<v Speaker 1>of the late sixties and early seventies, it was largely

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<v Speaker 1>the era of free love. So a lot of this

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<v Speaker 1>stuff is all kind of feeding in on itself. And

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<v Speaker 1>they rejected the trappings of government. They felt that the

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<v Speaker 1>system had previously rejected them, so they're now rejecting it back.

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<v Speaker 1>And many of their activities, like I said, fell on

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of questionable criminal side in some cases, and

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<v Speaker 1>they kind of celebrated in that as well, and increasingly

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<v Speaker 1>popular activity for yippies was coming up with different ways

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<v Speaker 1>to rip off the system. So this is kind of

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<v Speaker 1>where that can of the man comes into play, where

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<v Speaker 1>you've got the man that's the authority figure, and how

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<v Speaker 1>can you stick it to the man. What can you

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<v Speaker 1>do that will be at least a tiny irritation to them?

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<v Speaker 1>And one of the things that yippies like to do

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<v Speaker 1>was find ways to game a system to get stuff

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<v Speaker 1>for free. Not just to get free stuff, although more

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<v Speaker 1>and more people did start doing it just for that,

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<v Speaker 1>but because their money would not go to large corporations

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<v Speaker 1>and tax money would not go to the government to

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<v Speaker 1>fund what they saw as an unjust and perhaps even

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<v Speaker 1>illegal war in their eyes. So they thought, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're gonna take these actions, I'm not gonna enable you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna pay money to you. I'll find ways

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<v Speaker 1>to get the stuff I want for free. And so

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<v Speaker 1>it's kind of like almost like a robin Hood mentality,

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<v Speaker 1>although around in a roundabout way, and obviously some people

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<v Speaker 1>were less concerned with that aspect of the philosophy and

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<v Speaker 1>they just want their hands on the free stuff. So

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<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of folks who were enjoying the

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<v Speaker 1>thrill of stealing essentially, and they didn't really care if

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<v Speaker 1>there was any political statement associated with that. They were

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<v Speaker 1>mostly concerned with getting the stuff for free and perhaps

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<v Speaker 1>causing a little trouble in the process. Now this leads

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<v Speaker 1>up to the nineteen seventies when phone freaking really became

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<v Speaker 1>a big activity. And I've done a full episode on

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<v Speaker 1>freaking in the past, so if you want to check

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<v Speaker 1>that out, it's freaking a spelled with a pH, because

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<v Speaker 1>of course it's all about the phone systems, but essentially

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<v Speaker 1>it's all about manipulating those phone systems in different ways,

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<v Speaker 1>typically to navigate through the various subsystems that phone companies have,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes to make long distance phone calls for free, or

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<v Speaker 1>to do other mischievous things like reroute calls so that

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<v Speaker 1>they don't go to where they're supposed to go. That's

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<v Speaker 1>all part of phone freaking. And there were some pretty

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<v Speaker 1>famous people who were into that that scene, like Steve

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<v Speaker 1>Wozniak and Steve Jobs. They were really into the phone

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<v Speaker 1>freaking stuff in the seventies. Really, Steve Wozniak was more

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<v Speaker 1>of the one who would design the the technology that

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<v Speaker 1>would take advantage of phone systems, and Steve Jobs just

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<v Speaker 1>thought it was kind of funny and also was trying

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<v Speaker 1>to find ways to sell it. Curious folks also were

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<v Speaker 1>just wanting to know how the phone systems were. Some

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.920
<v Speaker 1>people weren't into phone freaking to cause mischief. They just

0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.720
<v Speaker 1>wanted to know how does this work, like what what

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.640
<v Speaker 1>makes it tick? And they would sort of reverse engineer

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:50.280
<v Speaker 1>the phone system from the outside. Just pretty ingenious and

0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:55.400
<v Speaker 1>there's some great stories from the phone freaking days. And uh,

0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 1>they weren't necessarily trying to exploit the system, but rather

0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.360
<v Speaker 1>just understand it, and so would engage in exploiting that

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.360
<v Speaker 1>knowledge later on, sometimes just to test it, sometimes just

0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.960
<v Speaker 1>to have fun. Um. Some ended up doing it as

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.360
<v Speaker 1>a way to show off their skill and understanding. So

0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 1>they might pull a big prank, but it's so that

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:18.480
<v Speaker 1>they can impress their friends in the freaking community. And

0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.360
<v Speaker 1>some did it because hey, man, free long distance. Once

0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:26.120
<v Speaker 1>upon a time, long distance was not free. You paid

0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.440
<v Speaker 1>for that. Every minute you were on the phone on

0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.560
<v Speaker 1>a long distance call, you were racking up charges. That

0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 1>doesn't tend to be the case today. Long distance today

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.040
<v Speaker 1>is largely meaningless. But for a long time, that was

0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.080
<v Speaker 1>a big deal, and if you happen to have friends

0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:45.000
<v Speaker 1>and distant places, then you know you might bristle at

0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:46.880
<v Speaker 1>the thought of having to pay extra just to talk

0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:48.880
<v Speaker 1>to them. A lot of freakers felt that it was

0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.560
<v Speaker 1>not really justified, and they also didn't really see the

0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.800
<v Speaker 1>use of their knowledge of the system being used to

0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:58.920
<v Speaker 1>make free long distance calls. They didn't see that as

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:04.440
<v Speaker 1>theft of service because nothing's really being lost, although there

0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.000
<v Speaker 1>were lots of different methods that would end up costing

0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:12.040
<v Speaker 1>other people. Typically, freakers would reroute information so that they

0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 1>can make long distance calls and someone else gets footed

0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:19.040
<v Speaker 1>for the bill. Many freakers would target companies or notable

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:23.480
<v Speaker 1>personalities as the recipient of that phone bill because they

0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:25.920
<v Speaker 1>thought was funny or they just felt again like they

0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.800
<v Speaker 1>were sticking it to the man. Other people just didn't

0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:30.600
<v Speaker 1>care who the bill went to as long as it

0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:37.040
<v Speaker 1>wasn't them. So V two You Get a magazine called Ramparts,

0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.760
<v Speaker 1>and Ramparts published an article that detailed how to make

0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.400
<v Speaker 1>a device called a blue box that would allow users

0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.880
<v Speaker 1>to receive long distance calls in such a way that

0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:48.600
<v Speaker 1>the person on the other end of the call would

0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:50.960
<v Speaker 1>not get billed for it, they'd be able to make

0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:52.760
<v Speaker 1>it for free. So if you had one of these

0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.520
<v Speaker 1>blue boxes attached to your phone and someone from another

0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.600
<v Speaker 1>state called you, it would act as if it was

0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.080
<v Speaker 1>a local call, or that there was no call at all,

0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.159
<v Speaker 1>and you could have that call for free. You couldn't

0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.040
<v Speaker 1>make outgoing calls for free, but you could accept incoming

0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.199
<v Speaker 1>calls and the other person would never get charged for it.

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:15.000
<v Speaker 1>The box would do this by mimicking the phone system's

0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:19.880
<v Speaker 1>signal tone to UH to fool the system into allowing

0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:25.760
<v Speaker 1>this to happen. Now, police acting on behalf of Pacific

0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:31.040
<v Speaker 1>Bell raided Ramparts magazine and required the company to recall issues.

0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:35.200
<v Speaker 1>They also seized issues on newsstands, which ended up driving

0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:39.240
<v Speaker 1>Ramparts out of business, and this brought up some questions

0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:43.080
<v Speaker 1>about free speech, like could a an instrument of the

0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.480
<v Speaker 1>free press publish something and have the government come in

0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:52.800
<v Speaker 1>and effectively shut down the the the journal. But even

0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:55.720
<v Speaker 1>though these questions came up, no one really pursued them

0:17:55.760 --> 0:18:00.359
<v Speaker 1>with any tenacity. So a lot of people seemed to

0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.480
<v Speaker 1>feel like Ramparts had overstepped its bounce, like it had

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.600
<v Speaker 1>published something that was meant to be kept away from

0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.000
<v Speaker 1>the public, and that that was not the realm of

0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.280
<v Speaker 1>free press that you know, you can't just because you

0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.960
<v Speaker 1>have free press, you can't do something that might be illegal.

0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:19.959
<v Speaker 1>And it was technically against the law according to California

0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.960
<v Speaker 1>State Penal Code Section five oh two point seven, which

0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.760
<v Speaker 1>says it is illegal to sell plans for any instrument, apparatus,

0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.040
<v Speaker 1>or device intended to avoid telephone toll charges. So you

0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:34.600
<v Speaker 1>could argue, while, it's against the law because you're selling

0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 1>the magazine, and the magazine has an article in it

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.080
<v Speaker 1>that tells you how to get around toll charges, so

0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.520
<v Speaker 1>therefore it breaks this law. However, you could then argue, well,

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:48.080
<v Speaker 1>that law is unconstitutional because of free speech, but Ramparts

0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.280
<v Speaker 1>didn't have the luxury of arguing that, and so the

0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.879
<v Speaker 1>company went under. Now, the yippie movement began to transform

0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.720
<v Speaker 1>as the Vietnam War was ending. A lot of political

0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:04.600
<v Speaker 1>motivation transitioned into anti corporate philosophy and the Youth International

0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:09.520
<v Speaker 1>Party Line, which was a newsletter that had been in

0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:13.639
<v Speaker 1>publication for a few years and would document different activities

0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.720
<v Speaker 1>and ways to stick it to the man, changed gradually

0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:22.560
<v Speaker 1>into a new format called the Technical Assistance Program or TAP,

0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.880
<v Speaker 1>and TAP was largely a parody of the technical documents

0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:29.680
<v Speaker 1>you could find at places like Bell Systems. Only here's

0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:34.440
<v Speaker 1>the thing. The documents that TAP would publish were supposed

0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.560
<v Speaker 1>to again be internal corporate documents. They weren't supposed to

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:43.320
<v Speaker 1>be exposed to to the public. Uh. And it again

0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:47.919
<v Speaker 1>was raising some questions is it ethical to publish something

0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:52.080
<v Speaker 1>that is an internal document of another company? And raised

0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:56.639
<v Speaker 1>questions about intellectual property and again freedom of speech. Uh.

0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.679
<v Speaker 1>TAP itself fizzled out in the late nineteen seventies, but

0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:05.879
<v Speaker 1>this wasn't due to any pressure from the government. Uh.

0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:08.840
<v Speaker 1>This was also a time of transformation. Phone systems were

0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.600
<v Speaker 1>becoming digitized and that would lead to a new era. People,

0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:19.440
<v Speaker 1>mostly young men, became interested in a new emerging technology, computers.

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:24.080
<v Speaker 1>So from the sixties through the seventies, computers were largely

0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.680
<v Speaker 1>the domain of colleges. So you did have some hackers

0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.600
<v Speaker 1>in those early days who were working on different computer

0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:35.120
<v Speaker 1>systems and creating interesting programs and making computers do stuff

0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:38.320
<v Speaker 1>that their creators didn't necessarily intend for them to do,

0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:41.840
<v Speaker 1>but didn't really take off until the late seventies, and

0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.840
<v Speaker 1>by night the nineties, freaking would largely give way to

0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:48.399
<v Speaker 1>computer hacking, in which curious people began to prod at

0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:52.520
<v Speaker 1>various systems, whether they were individual computers or networked machines,

0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.840
<v Speaker 1>in order to see how those systems worked, and some

0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:58.159
<v Speaker 1>people would take advantage of that knowledge and end up

0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.840
<v Speaker 1>getting a bit mischievous. So this is when we can

0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:05.639
<v Speaker 1>once again touch on the differences in the concepts of

0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:10.720
<v Speaker 1>hacker versus cracker for lack of a better term. So

0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:15.520
<v Speaker 1>if you go by the strictly traditional, original definition of hacker,

0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.040
<v Speaker 1>that would be someone who wants to learn how something works,

0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.800
<v Speaker 1>typically by taking it apart and examining all the parts

0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:24.960
<v Speaker 1>and putting it back together, maybe putting it back together

0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:26.959
<v Speaker 1>in a different way, so that the thing that they

0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.840
<v Speaker 1>were using is now behaving in a different way, it

0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:33.760
<v Speaker 1>can do different stuff. Those are all hacks. Whether it's

0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:38.840
<v Speaker 1>physical or with software, it's a hack. It's not necessarily elegant,

0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:43.399
<v Speaker 1>but ideally it just works. So you might create a

0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.400
<v Speaker 1>computer program and call it a hack because you were

0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:50.240
<v Speaker 1>just trying to get to a specific goal, and it

0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't really matter how you got there or how much

0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.560
<v Speaker 1>code it took or how pretty it was, as long

0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:59.200
<v Speaker 1>as it would give you the output. You wanted. Hackers

0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.280
<v Speaker 1>worked with in code and in actual physical circuits. They

0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.560
<v Speaker 1>might take machines apart literally and put them back together.

0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:09.320
<v Speaker 1>And they might infiltrate a computer system just to kind

0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:11.879
<v Speaker 1>of snoop around and see what makes it tick, like

0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.199
<v Speaker 1>just again to get that knowledge of what's going on

0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.960
<v Speaker 1>and how it all works together. But strictly speaking, hackers

0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:22.080
<v Speaker 1>are not inherently malicious. They might be a bit mischievous,

0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:26.679
<v Speaker 1>but they're not necessarily out to cause problems. Crackers, on

0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.159
<v Speaker 1>the other hand, would use their knowledge and experience to

0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:33.800
<v Speaker 1>exploit systems in some way, and that could include anything

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:38.240
<v Speaker 1>from theft to sabotage. And these are the types of

0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:41.919
<v Speaker 1>people who work for profit. They're using their knowledge to

0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:45.560
<v Speaker 1>leverage a system in some way in order to profit

0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:53.040
<v Speaker 1>from it, either financially or otherwise. And that's regardless of ethics.

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:55.960
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't really matter who the target is, uh, They're

0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:59.840
<v Speaker 1>just using their their expertise and their abilities and knowledge

0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:02.440
<v Speaker 1>to you make money off of this in some way

0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:06.200
<v Speaker 1>or to otherwise benefit from it in some way. Now,

0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:09.840
<v Speaker 1>over time, those two definitions have kind of merged and

0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:13.320
<v Speaker 1>all become part of just the word hacker. So if

0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:16.040
<v Speaker 1>you use the word hacker. A lot of people immediately

0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:20.560
<v Speaker 1>think of someone who is specifically intent on infiltrating a

0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:24.880
<v Speaker 1>computer system for some reason, whether it's to poke around

0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:30.840
<v Speaker 1>or to spy, or to cause the system to collapse

0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:33.520
<v Speaker 1>in some way, it all tends to get lumped under

0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:36.800
<v Speaker 1>the term hacker. So I'll be talking about the word

0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:39.680
<v Speaker 1>hacker in the very general sense from this point forward,

0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:42.120
<v Speaker 1>because that's how most of us think of it at

0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:45.120
<v Speaker 1>this point anyway. And and to be fair, there are

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:47.960
<v Speaker 1>lots and lots of examples of hackers causing this shift

0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:51.680
<v Speaker 1>or giving into the urge to steal, and I think

0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:54.520
<v Speaker 1>that kind of justifies this point of view about hackers

0:23:54.600 --> 0:24:00.520
<v Speaker 1>being a broader term. So in the hacking community, one

0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:04.680
<v Speaker 1>of the most important elements is respect among your peers.

0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:08.320
<v Speaker 1>There are hackers out there who just want to use

0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:12.200
<v Speaker 1>their their talents or often just the tools at their

0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:15.840
<v Speaker 1>disposal in order to make a profit. But quote unquote,

0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:20.959
<v Speaker 1>real hackers tend to look down on those people because

0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:26.920
<v Speaker 1>they like to get into systems for other reasons, reasons

0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:32.680
<v Speaker 1>they consider to be above material gain. However, the esteem

0:24:32.840 --> 0:24:36.640
<v Speaker 1>of their fellow hackers is something that they crave, so

0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:40.480
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of a digital currency, respect among your peers.

0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:45.040
<v Speaker 1>It's an important system. So if you are a hacker

0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:50.160
<v Speaker 1>and you gain access to a system that is known

0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:55.360
<v Speaker 1>to be particularly robust with very good security, then that's

0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:57.199
<v Speaker 1>a badge of honor. But it's only a badge of

0:24:57.200 --> 0:24:59.359
<v Speaker 1>honor if people know about it. Now, this is a

0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:03.320
<v Speaker 1>double edged sword because as a hacker, if you're really good,

0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:07.320
<v Speaker 1>you're covering your tracks so that the people who are

0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:10.960
<v Speaker 1>in control of whatever system you're checking out don't notice

0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:13.280
<v Speaker 1>that you are there. You don't want to leave any

0:25:13.320 --> 0:25:16.560
<v Speaker 1>evidence behind that you were there because you don't want

0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:19.760
<v Speaker 1>to get caught. But the on the flip side, you

0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:22.919
<v Speaker 1>do want your fellow hackers to know about your exploits

0:25:22.960 --> 0:25:25.680
<v Speaker 1>because then you can brag about it and you can

0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:29.560
<v Speaker 1>get some cashet that way. So it's a delicate balance.

0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:33.879
<v Speaker 1>Uh So, a hacker might test him or herself in

0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:36.840
<v Speaker 1>an interesting way and then try and take some sort

0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:40.040
<v Speaker 1>of proof of whatever their exploits were so that they

0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:44.080
<v Speaker 1>could brag about it to their peers. And it's because

0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:47.000
<v Speaker 1>again they thrive on that respect and validation that their

0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:50.600
<v Speaker 1>peers could give them. And this could lead also to

0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:56.199
<v Speaker 1>some hackers sidestepping or breaking rules and laws when applicable.

0:25:56.760 --> 0:25:59.640
<v Speaker 1>But again the issue here is that at the time

0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:03.399
<v Speaker 1>there were are not that many laws that specifically dealt

0:26:03.520 --> 0:26:07.960
<v Speaker 1>with the digital side of the world. So there were

0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:10.880
<v Speaker 1>a lot of times where you could argue, yeah, what

0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:15.040
<v Speaker 1>they did was wrong, but there weren't any laws in place,

0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:18.719
<v Speaker 1>so it wasn't illegal for the simple reason that there

0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:21.760
<v Speaker 1>was no law to break. Uh, though later there would

0:26:21.760 --> 0:26:24.879
<v Speaker 1>be laws that would certainly cover that. It's just that, again,

0:26:24.920 --> 0:26:29.760
<v Speaker 1>technology had outpaced the legal system. It was on an

0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:32.520
<v Speaker 1>effort to maintain or gain status, and that was a

0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:36.280
<v Speaker 1>very powerful motivator, powerful enough again to push some hackers

0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:41.200
<v Speaker 1>to doing activities that perhaps they should not have because

0:26:41.440 --> 0:26:46.000
<v Speaker 1>it would have surprised or amazed or delighted their fellow hackers.

0:26:46.720 --> 0:26:52.680
<v Speaker 1>And in order to show that they were truly responsible

0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:55.879
<v Speaker 1>for the acts they got up to, hackers would often

0:26:55.960 --> 0:26:59.800
<v Speaker 1>use information that they could only have through a successful hack,

0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:03.040
<v Speaker 1>and that became sort of their way of saying, look,

0:27:03.200 --> 0:27:06.440
<v Speaker 1>I know what I'm talking about. Here's the proof. So

0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:09.840
<v Speaker 1>you might do this either by giving information about the

0:27:09.840 --> 0:27:13.080
<v Speaker 1>system to other hackers so that they could access that

0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:15.280
<v Speaker 1>same system and thus they would know that you were

0:27:15.280 --> 0:27:19.119
<v Speaker 1>telling the truth, or you might, you know, copy some

0:27:19.200 --> 0:27:22.320
<v Speaker 1>files to prove that you were there and that you

0:27:22.359 --> 0:27:26.120
<v Speaker 1>actually have some evidence of what you did that will

0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:30.439
<v Speaker 1>come back into play later in this episode. So you

0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:33.119
<v Speaker 1>just wanted to prove to people you actually possessed the

0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:36.720
<v Speaker 1>skills and the moxie, not just the skill to get

0:27:36.760 --> 0:27:40.439
<v Speaker 1>into a system, but that you have it, have what

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:44.200
<v Speaker 1>it takes to actually take those steps, and you're brave

0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:47.280
<v Speaker 1>enough to do it and you're not afraid of getting caught.

0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:52.200
<v Speaker 1>Most hacker groups would actually have their own guidelines and rules,

0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:58.000
<v Speaker 1>largely unspoken but generally agreed upon. So hackers might say like, yeah,

0:27:58.119 --> 0:28:01.000
<v Speaker 1>we like to goof around and we like to mess

0:28:01.040 --> 0:28:03.680
<v Speaker 1>with systems and play around and learn how they work

0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:06.360
<v Speaker 1>and sometimes manipulate them a little bit, but we don't

0:28:06.400 --> 0:28:10.399
<v Speaker 1>want to take a system down on purpose, or steal

0:28:11.280 --> 0:28:15.879
<v Speaker 1>money or otherwise do anything for specific financial gain. A

0:28:15.920 --> 0:28:19.960
<v Speaker 1>lot of hacker groups had that kind of unspoken group

0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:24.919
<v Speaker 1>of rules that guided their own ethical decisions were what

0:28:25.000 --> 0:28:28.439
<v Speaker 1>they saw as ethical decisions. Breaking the rules if you

0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:30.840
<v Speaker 1>were part of this hacker group, but typically get you

0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:35.240
<v Speaker 1>ostracized from that group, and if you broke the rules

0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:39.040
<v Speaker 1>badly enough, or if you were a repeat offender. A

0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:43.400
<v Speaker 1>hacker might even report you to the authorities. Hackers frequently

0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:47.000
<v Speaker 1>would do this in order to get rid of problematic individuals.

0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:49.560
<v Speaker 1>They might say, like, this person is just stirring up trouble,

0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:53.760
<v Speaker 1>and even if that trouble never comes back to us,

0:28:54.400 --> 0:28:57.040
<v Speaker 1>I still find it distasteful, and so therefore I'm going

0:28:57.080 --> 0:29:03.080
<v Speaker 1>to give up their identity to someone authority because they

0:29:03.120 --> 0:29:07.480
<v Speaker 1>have broken these rules. So there was some honor among hackers,

0:29:08.520 --> 0:29:12.160
<v Speaker 1>even those who didn't view theft as being all that

0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:16.280
<v Speaker 1>bad of a concept, or they just didn't recognize digital

0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:21.560
<v Speaker 1>copying as any kind of similarity to theft. Many hackers

0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:24.800
<v Speaker 1>who were apprehended by law enforcement would end up spilling

0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:29.280
<v Speaker 1>all the beans. There would be no beans left unspilled.

0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:33.920
<v Speaker 1>Most of them were extremely cooperative with law enforcement once

0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:41.360
<v Speaker 1>they got snatched, and they would talk all about the

0:29:41.400 --> 0:29:44.280
<v Speaker 1>bulletin board systems they would use, the other hackers that

0:29:44.320 --> 0:29:48.040
<v Speaker 1>they would roll with where they learned skills. If they

0:29:48.040 --> 0:29:50.720
<v Speaker 1>were using tools that someone else made, they might talk

0:29:50.760 --> 0:29:53.360
<v Speaker 1>about that. There are a lot of hackers who weren't

0:29:53.360 --> 0:29:57.920
<v Speaker 1>really hackers. They were what some folks derisively called script kiddies.

0:29:58.280 --> 0:30:01.160
<v Speaker 1>These would be people who would use code that was

0:30:01.200 --> 0:30:05.200
<v Speaker 1>designed by other people, and it would be code that

0:30:05.200 --> 0:30:10.840
<v Speaker 1>would do something typically uh, something that could be malicious,

0:30:11.000 --> 0:30:14.640
<v Speaker 1>and then they would execute that code themselves, and that

0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:18.800
<v Speaker 1>would give these people power over others. But it's not

0:30:18.880 --> 0:30:21.400
<v Speaker 1>like they made the tools they were using. They were

0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:24.520
<v Speaker 1>just relying upon them. They were willing to use those tools,

0:30:25.240 --> 0:30:27.680
<v Speaker 1>and those would be the script kiddies. Often if they

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:29.760
<v Speaker 1>got picked up, they would just spill the beans about

0:30:29.760 --> 0:30:31.760
<v Speaker 1>all the people who worked on those tools in the

0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:34.120
<v Speaker 1>first place, even if the people who made the tools

0:30:34.120 --> 0:30:37.800
<v Speaker 1>never had any intention of using them in a malicious way,

0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:42.960
<v Speaker 1>and that would lead to some difficult, difficult situations because

0:30:43.040 --> 0:30:46.600
<v Speaker 1>law enforcement doesn't necessarily make that designation between someone who

0:30:46.600 --> 0:30:49.520
<v Speaker 1>has created a tool that could be good or bad

0:30:49.840 --> 0:30:51.880
<v Speaker 1>and someone who has created a bad tool on purpose

0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:55.600
<v Speaker 1>in order to be bad all the time. There's a

0:30:55.680 --> 0:30:58.959
<v Speaker 1>level of subtlety there that frequently law enforcement would just

0:30:59.160 --> 0:31:03.120
<v Speaker 1>overlook because us it gets pretty complicated when you start

0:31:03.200 --> 0:31:08.360
<v Speaker 1>trying to look at it as a spectrum. Now. Hacker

0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:10.720
<v Speaker 1>culture at the time was largely the realm of bulletin

0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:14.800
<v Speaker 1>board systems, and those were message boards and file storage

0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:19.800
<v Speaker 1>systems that lived on someone's computer somewhere. You had thousands

0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:22.200
<v Speaker 1>of these in the United States, and the way you

0:31:22.200 --> 0:31:25.600
<v Speaker 1>would access it is you would use a dial up modem.

0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:28.600
<v Speaker 1>You would dial into the bulletin board system's phone number

0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:33.719
<v Speaker 1>and you would connect to the remote computer system, and

0:31:33.760 --> 0:31:36.720
<v Speaker 1>there you could access things like files that were on

0:31:36.760 --> 0:31:39.080
<v Speaker 1>the system, you could leave messages for other people. It

0:31:39.120 --> 0:31:41.320
<v Speaker 1>really was a bulletin board system. It was like a

0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:45.960
<v Speaker 1>giant electronic bulletin board, but bulletin board where you could

0:31:45.960 --> 0:31:50.520
<v Speaker 1>also do stuff like play games and um download files.

0:31:50.560 --> 0:31:54.680
<v Speaker 1>So this was kind of a precursor to the Internet,

0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:57.440
<v Speaker 1>although there the Internet at this time did exist, but

0:31:57.520 --> 0:31:59.640
<v Speaker 1>it was something that very few people had access to

0:32:00.360 --> 0:32:04.080
<v Speaker 1>in the late eighties, so bolton boards were really really popular,

0:32:04.120 --> 0:32:08.240
<v Speaker 1>and hackers would go there to discuss their exploits, to

0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:11.800
<v Speaker 1>share information so that other people could get access to

0:32:11.840 --> 0:32:15.400
<v Speaker 1>the same sort of systems that they were in, uh

0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:18.320
<v Speaker 1>and you know, just kind of shoot the breeze with

0:32:18.360 --> 0:32:22.360
<v Speaker 1>fellow hackers. Not all bolton board systems were a den

0:32:22.440 --> 0:32:25.560
<v Speaker 1>of scum and villany or a hive of scum and villainy,

0:32:25.640 --> 0:32:28.160
<v Speaker 1>if I want to be appropriate with that that quote,

0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:32.560
<v Speaker 1>But there were a lot that were catered specifically to hackers.

0:32:32.960 --> 0:32:35.400
<v Speaker 1>So there were underground bolletin board systems as well as

0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:37.560
<v Speaker 1>ones that were more public. They might have some hacker

0:32:37.600 --> 0:32:40.760
<v Speaker 1>activity on them, but that wasn't the primary focus of them.

0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:44.200
<v Speaker 1>But again, law enforcement often will paint everyone with the

0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:49.080
<v Speaker 1>same brush, particularly for things that are rapidly advancing and

0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:52.080
<v Speaker 1>not fully understood, and so bolletin board systems in general

0:32:52.120 --> 0:33:02.080
<v Speaker 1>were viewed with a lot of suspicion. Computer hacking itself

0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:05.200
<v Speaker 1>was relatively new stuff, and for a while hackers were

0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:09.440
<v Speaker 1>mostly ignored as a nuisance, as was evident in that

0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:12.880
<v Speaker 1>quote I gave earlier from the Secret Service talking about

0:33:13.080 --> 0:33:18.280
<v Speaker 1>mischievous people living in their parents homes teenagers. Mostly that

0:33:18.400 --> 0:33:20.840
<v Speaker 1>was the common view of hackers, and in fact it

0:33:20.880 --> 0:33:24.320
<v Speaker 1>really wasn't that inaccurate or a lot of hackers out there.

0:33:24.320 --> 0:33:25.800
<v Speaker 1>A lot of the hackers that caused a lot of

0:33:25.840 --> 0:33:28.440
<v Speaker 1>issues were teenagers who were living at home where they

0:33:28.480 --> 0:33:32.239
<v Speaker 1>were in their early twenties at their oldest, and they

0:33:32.240 --> 0:33:35.560
<v Speaker 1>were in college. There are only a few people in

0:33:35.600 --> 0:33:39.320
<v Speaker 1>their mid twenties or older who were in that hacker culture.

0:33:39.360 --> 0:33:42.200
<v Speaker 1>There were some notable people that were in that age

0:33:42.200 --> 0:33:45.040
<v Speaker 1>group and also were known as hackers. But a lot

0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:47.560
<v Speaker 1>of them were very young, and most of them were guys.

0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:54.160
<v Speaker 1>Cyberspace had tangible values. At this point, information was starting

0:33:54.160 --> 0:34:00.000
<v Speaker 1>to be viewed as property. It wasn't just data data, uh.

0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:03.960
<v Speaker 1>And also it became a weird kind of switcherou because

0:34:04.200 --> 0:34:09.840
<v Speaker 1>universities their whole purpose is to impart information, to to

0:34:10.000 --> 0:34:13.759
<v Speaker 1>give information to people, and now they had computer systems

0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:17.359
<v Speaker 1>where folks were thinking about information is something you were

0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:21.800
<v Speaker 1>to restrict from other people. And it was a weird

0:34:21.840 --> 0:34:24.560
<v Speaker 1>dichotomy that was going on at the time, and in

0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:29.600
<v Speaker 1>what had mostly been viewed as the harmless activity of

0:34:29.600 --> 0:34:32.880
<v Speaker 1>a few hundred or maybe a few thousand computer nerds

0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:36.480
<v Speaker 1>began to take on a new connotation as potentially criminal

0:34:36.560 --> 0:34:40.920
<v Speaker 1>behavior because there were a couple of different incidents that

0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:46.000
<v Speaker 1>were at least criminal adjacent, if not outright criminal activity itself.

0:34:46.719 --> 0:34:51.560
<v Speaker 1>And that ended up becoming a big influence on the

0:34:51.600 --> 0:34:55.600
<v Speaker 1>way we view hacking in general, because went beyond just oh,

0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:58.719
<v Speaker 1>this person is being kind of a a pain in

0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:01.680
<v Speaker 1>my side, to this is someone who could potentially cause

0:35:01.840 --> 0:35:06.040
<v Speaker 1>great harm to me in one way or another. And

0:35:06.120 --> 0:35:09.000
<v Speaker 1>some of those criminal behaviors went beyond being potential. Some

0:35:09.040 --> 0:35:13.160
<v Speaker 1>of them were clearly criminal acts. So here's an example.

0:35:13.200 --> 0:35:15.480
<v Speaker 1>There was a sixteen year old hacker out of Indiana

0:35:15.680 --> 0:35:19.080
<v Speaker 1>who used the handle Fry Guy, and he had been

0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:23.279
<v Speaker 1>committing credit card and wire fraud using hacking techniques that

0:35:23.360 --> 0:35:25.480
<v Speaker 1>he had learned from a group of hackers called the

0:35:25.600 --> 0:35:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Legion of Doom. Hackers love giving them their groups these

0:35:31.440 --> 0:35:34.200
<v Speaker 1>these different connotations, and a lot of them are very playful.

0:35:34.360 --> 0:35:38.120
<v Speaker 1>Legion of Doom while it, you know, sounds kind of wicked,

0:35:38.160 --> 0:35:39.520
<v Speaker 1>you said there and thing like yeah, but that's a

0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:42.480
<v Speaker 1>cartoon group of villains, like that's the bad guys that

0:35:42.520 --> 0:35:46.479
<v Speaker 1>would face off against the Justice League. And in fact

0:35:46.520 --> 0:35:49.360
<v Speaker 1>that was purposefully chosen. The hackers were choosing these names

0:35:49.520 --> 0:35:51.879
<v Speaker 1>partly kind of tongue in cheek, and there were even

0:35:51.960 --> 0:35:55.680
<v Speaker 1>offshoots of this, like the Farmers of Doom uh f

0:35:55.840 --> 0:35:57.719
<v Speaker 1>O D and Legion of Doom was called l O

0:35:57.800 --> 0:36:02.800
<v Speaker 1>d well. Fry Guy had learned some interesting hacking skills

0:36:02.800 --> 0:36:04.920
<v Speaker 1>from folks at the Legion of Doom. And by the way,

0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:07.920
<v Speaker 1>the Legion of Doom folks, they mostly were just interested

0:36:07.920 --> 0:36:10.879
<v Speaker 1>in learning how these computer systems worked. They were they

0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:13.480
<v Speaker 1>were the sort of hackers who were they looked down

0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:17.200
<v Speaker 1>on the concept of stealing. Fry Guy, however, not so

0:36:17.239 --> 0:36:21.240
<v Speaker 1>concerned about this, and Fry Guy liked the association of

0:36:21.719 --> 0:36:23.879
<v Speaker 1>knowing people in the Legion of Doom, but Fry Guy

0:36:24.000 --> 0:36:27.520
<v Speaker 1>was not part of that group. People would refer to

0:36:27.600 --> 0:36:30.640
<v Speaker 1>him as a legion of Doom wanna be, and he

0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:34.239
<v Speaker 1>had ended up stealing more than six thousand dollars from

0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:39.719
<v Speaker 1>Western Union over over time with credit card and wire fraud. Uh.

0:36:40.719 --> 0:36:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Fry Guy also had previously pulled what he thought was

0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:48.680
<v Speaker 1>a hilarious prank by using the knowledge he gained from

0:36:48.719 --> 0:36:51.480
<v Speaker 1>a few members from the Legion of Doom to redirect

0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:54.760
<v Speaker 1>the digital switching system in Bell South and send phone

0:36:54.760 --> 0:36:58.160
<v Speaker 1>calls that were intended for the Palm Beach County Probation

0:36:58.200 --> 0:37:02.120
<v Speaker 1>Department in Florida to a phone sex operator going by

0:37:02.160 --> 0:37:05.719
<v Speaker 1>the name of Tina Up in New York State. But

0:37:05.800 --> 0:37:08.919
<v Speaker 1>Fry Guy also didn't bother to cover his tracks very well,

0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:12.000
<v Speaker 1>which meant that Bell South eventually found out about this,

0:37:12.760 --> 0:37:17.759
<v Speaker 1>and company executives were clearly horrified and also terrified that

0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:20.960
<v Speaker 1>someone had been able to infiltrate their systems and do

0:37:21.040 --> 0:37:24.279
<v Speaker 1>this because if they could redirect calls meant for one

0:37:24.520 --> 0:37:27.359
<v Speaker 1>entity and send it to another they might be able

0:37:27.400 --> 0:37:32.000
<v Speaker 1>to do something way worse, like manipulate the nine one

0:37:32.120 --> 0:37:37.080
<v Speaker 1>one service, which could result in someone's death if if

0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:41.600
<v Speaker 1>emergency responders cannot get to a situation in time. So

0:37:41.680 --> 0:37:44.719
<v Speaker 1>there was a clear level of concern as this was

0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:47.960
<v Speaker 1>going on. Fry Guy's activities caught the attention of the

0:37:48.040 --> 0:37:51.759
<v Speaker 1>Secret Service, largely because Fry Guy, perhaps drunk on his

0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:54.960
<v Speaker 1>own limited power, had been taunting the phone company and

0:37:55.000 --> 0:37:57.560
<v Speaker 1>claiming that his hacker group was going to cause a

0:37:57.640 --> 0:38:01.800
<v Speaker 1>massive disruption in the phone system on a nationwide level

0:38:02.239 --> 0:38:07.280
<v Speaker 1>on July so frieda Guy thought he was being pretty

0:38:07.280 --> 0:38:11.480
<v Speaker 1>clever and hiding his tracks, but he was located by

0:38:11.520 --> 0:38:15.800
<v Speaker 1>Western Union. Western Union passed this information onto the Secret Service,

0:38:15.840 --> 0:38:19.719
<v Speaker 1>which put pen registers on Fry Guy's phones. Now, pen

0:38:19.840 --> 0:38:23.880
<v Speaker 1>registers will detect when calls are going out from a

0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:28.400
<v Speaker 1>phone line. They cannot listen in on the content of

0:38:28.440 --> 0:38:32.759
<v Speaker 1>that conversation. There's no spying on the actual conversations, but

0:38:32.800 --> 0:38:36.840
<v Speaker 1>they can detect where those calls are going, including calls

0:38:36.880 --> 0:38:39.799
<v Speaker 1>being made from a dial up modem. So that's what

0:38:39.840 --> 0:38:41.959
<v Speaker 1>the Secret Service was interested in. They wanted to see

0:38:42.200 --> 0:38:44.480
<v Speaker 1>all the numbers that Fry Guy was calling on a

0:38:44.520 --> 0:38:48.480
<v Speaker 1>regular basis, and they were able to trace those numbers

0:38:48.480 --> 0:38:52.120
<v Speaker 1>to a lot of different entities, including lots of hacker

0:38:52.239 --> 0:38:55.880
<v Speaker 1>and pirate based bulletin board systems and members of the

0:38:56.000 --> 0:39:01.239
<v Speaker 1>Legion of Doom. UH. Those members of Legion of Doom,

0:39:01.400 --> 0:39:06.920
<v Speaker 1>three of them were hackers who lived in Atlanta, Georgia.

0:39:07.440 --> 0:39:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Fry Guy had been using his knowledge of systems to

0:39:09.640 --> 0:39:12.719
<v Speaker 1>steal money. These members of Legion of Doom viewed that

0:39:12.800 --> 0:39:15.680
<v Speaker 1>behavior as being against their own code, so they wouldn't

0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:18.520
<v Speaker 1>do that sort of thing. But because Fry Guy had

0:39:18.640 --> 0:39:20.879
<v Speaker 1>learned the skills from them, and because he was still

0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:26.680
<v Speaker 1>in contact with them, their identities and their their existence

0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:32.440
<v Speaker 1>was a thing of interest to the Secret Service. So

0:39:32.480 --> 0:39:36.560
<v Speaker 1>on July twenty nine, remember Fry Guy had said that

0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:38.000
<v Speaker 1>on the fourth of July there was going to be

0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:42.400
<v Speaker 1>this massive nationwide disruption of the phone service. That didn't happen,

0:39:42.440 --> 0:39:47.240
<v Speaker 1>but on July the Secret Service performed a coordinated sweep

0:39:47.440 --> 0:39:52.359
<v Speaker 1>a Fry Guy and the Atlanta Three as they were known. UH.

0:39:52.400 --> 0:39:55.719
<v Speaker 1>Those three would include hackers with the handles, the leftist,

0:39:56.160 --> 0:40:00.480
<v Speaker 1>her vile and profit as in like a person who

0:40:00.520 --> 0:40:04.120
<v Speaker 1>can give you a prophecy, not someone who profits off

0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:08.359
<v Speaker 1>of others. Erville was an avid gamer as well as

0:40:08.360 --> 0:40:13.160
<v Speaker 1>a hacker, and he particularly liked a game called a

0:40:13.200 --> 0:40:18.080
<v Speaker 1>Generic Universal role Playing System or GIRPS. Girp's was published

0:40:18.120 --> 0:40:21.880
<v Speaker 1>by a company called Steve Jackson Games. That that game

0:40:21.920 --> 0:40:25.839
<v Speaker 1>company will actually come back into this conversation later, and

0:40:25.880 --> 0:40:29.319
<v Speaker 1>it's not a direct link to this particular fact. I

0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:31.040
<v Speaker 1>just thought it was interesting that there was more than

0:40:31.120 --> 0:40:35.080
<v Speaker 1>one connection to Steve Jackson Games in this Storyville particularly

0:40:35.080 --> 0:40:39.160
<v Speaker 1>like playing a spy themed game using this universal system,

0:40:39.200 --> 0:40:42.560
<v Speaker 1>and relied heavily on two source books called GIRPS High

0:40:42.600 --> 0:40:46.399
<v Speaker 1>Tech and Groups Special Ops. So the Genetic Universal role

0:40:46.440 --> 0:40:49.120
<v Speaker 1>Playing System. You may be familiar with role playing games

0:40:49.160 --> 0:40:52.920
<v Speaker 1>like Dungeons and Dragons, the Generic Universal role Playing System.

0:40:52.960 --> 0:40:55.560
<v Speaker 1>The intent of that was to create a basic set

0:40:55.600 --> 0:40:58.280
<v Speaker 1>of rules that you could then adapt to any setting.

0:40:59.040 --> 0:41:02.319
<v Speaker 1>It could be fantasy like Dungeons and Dragons. It could

0:41:02.320 --> 0:41:05.080
<v Speaker 1>be a Western, it could be science fiction. It could

0:41:05.120 --> 0:41:10.799
<v Speaker 1>be as in the case of Ervill's favorite version, espionage

0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:15.520
<v Speaker 1>and spy work kind of James bond Ish. Now Erville

0:41:15.600 --> 0:41:18.400
<v Speaker 1>himself was the game master of the game he was running,

0:41:18.680 --> 0:41:21.359
<v Speaker 1>and he had tons of notes relating to various game

0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:25.600
<v Speaker 1>related missions in his possession, and because the game was

0:41:25.600 --> 0:41:28.439
<v Speaker 1>about international espionage and would play out like a James

0:41:28.440 --> 0:41:31.239
<v Speaker 1>Bond film, those notes, if viewed by someone looking for

0:41:31.320 --> 0:41:35.680
<v Speaker 1>evidence of criminal behavior, could set off some major alarm bells,

0:41:36.040 --> 0:41:41.520
<v Speaker 1>like reading about various kinds of international espionage and plans

0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:44.799
<v Speaker 1>of assassination and this sort of thing. It doesn't look

0:41:44.840 --> 0:41:48.040
<v Speaker 1>good if the Secret Service comes into your home and

0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:50.920
<v Speaker 1>starts looking at things you've written down on pieces of paper,

0:41:51.400 --> 0:41:54.400
<v Speaker 1>and that includes ways that you can spy on other governments,

0:41:54.480 --> 0:41:56.800
<v Speaker 1>or you might be a you know, a double agent

0:41:56.880 --> 0:42:03.239
<v Speaker 1>or something that tends to make people feel a little antsy.

0:42:03.440 --> 0:42:07.960
<v Speaker 1>It didn't help that Erville was not too picky about

0:42:08.360 --> 0:42:13.040
<v Speaker 1>differentiating fantasy from reality. It uh meant that that whole

0:42:13.080 --> 0:42:17.120
<v Speaker 1>interrogation went a little rocky. And Erville also would put

0:42:17.160 --> 0:42:19.680
<v Speaker 1>these notes on any kind of scrap paper he happen

0:42:19.680 --> 0:42:23.319
<v Speaker 1>to have at his disposal. Unfortunately for Erville, a lot

0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:26.120
<v Speaker 1>of those scraps of paper were on various Bell South

0:42:26.200 --> 0:42:29.680
<v Speaker 1>print outs and documents that he was totally not supposed

0:42:29.719 --> 0:42:33.640
<v Speaker 1>to have. So there are all these documents that were

0:42:33.640 --> 0:42:37.000
<v Speaker 1>meant to be internal Bell South documents that Erville had

0:42:37.080 --> 0:42:40.760
<v Speaker 1>possession of. He had written all these notes about international

0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:45.919
<v Speaker 1>espionage on them, and he was already linked to Fry Guy,

0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:50.560
<v Speaker 1>who had been caught for you know, fraud and uh

0:42:50.640 --> 0:42:52.920
<v Speaker 1>and Fry Guy had even said that the Legion of

0:42:52.960 --> 0:42:57.759
<v Speaker 1>Doom was gonna cause this huge phone outage. So all

0:42:57.800 --> 0:43:00.840
<v Speaker 1>of those cards were stacked against him, and it definitely

0:43:00.840 --> 0:43:04.920
<v Speaker 1>didn't look great. So the Secret Service interrogator Ville and

0:43:04.920 --> 0:43:07.440
<v Speaker 1>asked him about the possibility of his group doing stuff

0:43:07.480 --> 0:43:12.200
<v Speaker 1>like spying on phone conversations or disrupting the system, and

0:43:12.239 --> 0:43:16.120
<v Speaker 1>ours like, uh, yeah, it's totally possible. We could totally

0:43:16.120 --> 0:43:19.160
<v Speaker 1>do that if we wanted to. We could spy on you.

0:43:19.239 --> 0:43:22.359
<v Speaker 1>We could bring down the phone system. It wouldn't even

0:43:22.440 --> 0:43:25.560
<v Speaker 1>be that difficult. It's actually pretty easy. There's just some

0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:29.640
<v Speaker 1>simple code we could run and the whole system would crash.

0:43:29.920 --> 0:43:33.799
<v Speaker 1>And the Secret Service said, what, yeah, I mean, we

0:43:33.840 --> 0:43:38.120
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't because I mean, that's not interesting. He didn't say

0:43:38.160 --> 0:43:41.920
<v Speaker 1>we wouldn't because it's wrong. He says, we wouldn't because

0:43:42.080 --> 0:43:45.839
<v Speaker 1>there's no challenge in it. There's nothing special about it.

0:43:45.840 --> 0:43:48.560
<v Speaker 1>It would just be boring. So that didn't make the

0:43:48.600 --> 0:43:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Secret Service feel much better about what was going on

0:43:51.640 --> 0:43:54.920
<v Speaker 1>at that point. Irville may not have done himself very

0:43:54.920 --> 0:43:58.640
<v Speaker 1>many favors during that interrogation. All right, guys, I'm interrupting

0:43:58.640 --> 0:44:00.719
<v Speaker 1>myself right now and the sas and I'm doing it

0:44:00.760 --> 0:44:03.160
<v Speaker 1>is because you know how I talk a lot. I

0:44:03.160 --> 0:44:06.799
<v Speaker 1>did it a lot today, like more than we had

0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:10.520
<v Speaker 1>anticipated on this topic. And so rather than continue this

0:44:10.640 --> 0:44:13.160
<v Speaker 1>and make it an epic, super duper long episode of

0:44:13.160 --> 0:44:15.480
<v Speaker 1>tech stuff that I'm sure you guys would love, We're

0:44:15.480 --> 0:44:18.319
<v Speaker 1>gonna split up into two super duper long episodes of

0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:21.759
<v Speaker 1>tech stuff, which I'm sure my boss will love for reasons.

0:44:22.320 --> 0:44:25.319
<v Speaker 1>So if you guys have suggestions for future episodes of

0:44:25.360 --> 0:44:28.279
<v Speaker 1>tech stuff, you should write me the email addresses tech

0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:31.000
<v Speaker 1>stuff at how stuff works dot com or draw me

0:44:31.040 --> 0:44:33.080
<v Speaker 1>a line on Facebook or Twitter to handle at both

0:44:33.080 --> 0:44:37.000
<v Speaker 1>of those is tech stuff hs W. Remember I stream

0:44:37.080 --> 0:44:40.000
<v Speaker 1>live over at twitch dot tv slash tech stuff on

0:44:40.000 --> 0:44:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Wednesdays and Friday, So go over there and you can

0:44:42.600 --> 0:44:45.399
<v Speaker 1>check out the schedule and join in on the conversation

0:44:45.840 --> 0:44:48.160
<v Speaker 1>and you might even see me do super duper long

0:44:48.200 --> 0:44:50.600
<v Speaker 1>episodes that later on I have to divide into a

0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:53.239
<v Speaker 1>couple of different ones. In our next episode, we will

0:44:53.280 --> 0:44:57.280
<v Speaker 1>continue this amazing story and see how it concludes, and

0:44:57.320 --> 0:45:00.000
<v Speaker 1>how it leads to the formation of the Electronic Frontier

0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:02.959
<v Speaker 1>or Foundation. It's a story in tech that I don't

0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:06.560
<v Speaker 1>think gets circulated enough and it's really fascinating to me.

0:45:07.080 --> 0:45:14.719
<v Speaker 1>And I'll see you guys again soon for more on

0:45:14.800 --> 0:45:17.280
<v Speaker 1>this and thousands of other topics because at how Stuff

0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:27.720
<v Speaker 1>Works dot com