Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,
Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck
Speaker 1: and Jerry's here too. When you put the three of
Speaker 1: us together, add a little miso, you got stuff you
Speaker 1: should Know which rhymes with miso.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, you rescued that one. I was on the
Speaker 2: edge of my seat. I was like, where's this one going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you can always bring it back to rhyming. Yeah,
Speaker 1: unless it doesn't rhyme, and then you got nothing.
Speaker 2: Well, something that doesn't rhyme is rice and beans or
Speaker 2: beans and rice?
Speaker 1: And which way? Which way do you prefer to say it?
Speaker 2: I've always said beans and rice.
Speaker 1: Really I say the exact opposite. Hey, I say and
Speaker 1: rice beans?
Speaker 2: You dopest. So I think I was trying to figure
Speaker 2: out why I thought of this one, because this was
Speaker 2: my idea. We did an episode on rice last year
Speaker 2: and just its you know, importance as a crop all
Speaker 2: around the world. And I think maybe when I was
Speaker 2: in Belize, I had a beans and rice dish and
Speaker 2: it just got to me, got me thinking. I was like, man,
Speaker 2: I feel like almost every country I've been to in
Speaker 2: the West, and certainly every Island and there's like some
Speaker 2: version of beans and rice, and like, I was kind
Speaker 2: of wondering what the deal was and why those that
Speaker 2: the combination specifically of those two things was a thing.
Speaker 2: And I guess out of this the idea was born.
Speaker 1: That's a great idea. I'm glad you did. And I
Speaker 1: definitely ate rice and beans for lunch today just from
Speaker 1: dying all this. Oh yeah, I put together what we
Speaker 1: had on hand, So I had pinto beans, yeah, mixed
Speaker 1: with wild rice, which was actually really good.
Speaker 2: Interesting combo it was.
Speaker 1: I took a cue from Jerry and I actually added
Speaker 1: a little miso to it, stirred it all together. That
Speaker 1: helped really pull the room together. And then I put
Speaker 1: some tuna on there on.
Speaker 2: Top, oh tune on top. That's the joshuay.
Speaker 1: I was like, what would I call this? And I
Speaker 1: came up with a freehole importantes.
Speaker 2: Did you really?
Speaker 1: Oh no, that wasn't off the cuff, So yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess I did.
Speaker 2: Really, my favorite bean, if I'm going to eat beans
Speaker 2: and rice, is actually pinto beans. Although I'm not going
Speaker 2: to turn my nose up at black beans or refried
Speaker 2: or refried black or any of that stuff. I love
Speaker 2: all that stuff, but I love pinto beans.
Speaker 1: What about red beans?
Speaker 2: I like red beans, okay, but I much much prefer
Speaker 2: pinto beans like red beans. And rice isn't my favorite
Speaker 2: out of the beans and rice dishes. And my favorite
Speaker 2: rice far and away is and I don't know what
Speaker 2: the word for it is or if there is one,
Speaker 2: but the very very traditional Mexican rice that my friend
Speaker 2: PJ makes and he's going to teach me. That's made
Speaker 2: with like chicken stock and tomatoes hard. It's just it
Speaker 2: sort of turns out a light brown orange color. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it's not clumpy or sticky. It's all like the
Speaker 2: rice is very loose within each other. That's my favorite
Speaker 2: kind of rice is that specific kind of Mexican rice.
Speaker 1: It's almost like an orzo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But like other places, like the place down the
Speaker 2: street has like a cilantro rice, which is really good,
Speaker 2: but I like just that really traditional Mexican rice.
Speaker 1: I know, I agree with you. One of the ironic things.
Speaker 1: Dave helped us with this, and he pointed something out
Speaker 1: that I hadn't really considered. You said that like everywhere
Speaker 1: you've been to in the West or any island especially
Speaker 1: has their own beans and rice dish, right, New Mexico
Speaker 1: is what I always associate with, or it certainly initially
Speaker 1: associated with rice and beans. And they actually don't have
Speaker 1: a rice and beans dish. They just give you rice
Speaker 1: and beans and that's actually the authentic way that Mexico
Speaker 1: does it. They don't have like a national rice and
Speaker 1: beans dish.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a combined although let's be honest, it gets
Speaker 2: on that plate. What are you doing. You're eating that
Speaker 2: stuff together on one fourfold at a time.
Speaker 1: But they stopped one step short. All they had to
Speaker 1: do is come up with the name for mixing together
Speaker 1: the rice and beans, and they would be like every
Speaker 1: other Caribbean, Central and South American nation for sure.
Speaker 2: And you know, we'll kind of hop around to these
Speaker 2: in more detail. But like for instance, in Costa Rica,
Speaker 2: a lot of time for breakfast, still have spotted rooster
Speaker 2: or guyo pinto, and you know, everyone's a little different.
Speaker 2: They have like an onion saute with bell peppers, black beans,
Speaker 2: the rice from the day before, with some chop cilantro,
Speaker 2: some eggs on the side. Nicaragua also has a version
Speaker 2: of that as well, which is really good.
Speaker 1: I bet me and and me went to Nicaragua, and
Speaker 1: I don't remember having this, and I feel like we
Speaker 1: really missed out. Oh really because it sounds really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Jamaica of course has their rice and peas, which
Speaker 2: is a little bit different. It's known as the Jamaican
Speaker 2: Coat of Arms. And we definitely had rice and peas
Speaker 2: in Jamaica. And they're talking about pigeon peas in this case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is a kind of bean, not peas. Peas, yeah,
Speaker 1: which no one likes. No one's sane likes peas.
Speaker 2: I love green peas, English peas, do you Yeah.
Speaker 1: I do not like them. What's funny is Momo takes
Speaker 1: after me because she will like eat her whole breakfast
Speaker 1: or her whole dinner, and if there's a pea in
Speaker 1: it and it's not mashed together with everything else, yeah,
Speaker 1: she will just eat everything else but that pea.
Speaker 2: Do you make her own food or do you use
Speaker 2: one of those like fresh food dog food things?
Speaker 1: Oh umy cooks for a few times. Yeah, so she
Speaker 1: gives her peas, but she'll mash them up.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's good. You know my buddy Justin, We talk
Speaker 2: about Justin all the time. Now they put their dogs
Speaker 2: on a raw foods diet, and they throw all kinds
Speaker 2: of stuff in there. They'll have like they have chickens,
Speaker 2: and so they'll throw the chicken eggs in there, and
Speaker 2: the eggshells and just all sorts of stuff. And those
Speaker 2: dogs are as like healthy and lemon shiny as I've
Speaker 2: ever seen him.
Speaker 1: I'm sure Momo's food is cooked, it's not raw, but
Speaker 1: she has a pretty great diet for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you should try their all thing, all right, sure,
Speaker 2: I mean we should all try the raw thing. It's
Speaker 2: really good for you, So, Chuck.
Speaker 1: One of the biggest things that I learned in this
Speaker 1: episode was that coolantro and cilantro are not just different
Speaker 1: spellings for the same thing. Uh yeah, I did not
Speaker 1: know that, did you? You didn't?
Speaker 2: I think I did, all.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, cilantro is what well at cilantro, everybody knows cilantro.
Speaker 1: It tastes like dish soap. Coolantro is something totally different.
Speaker 1: It looks different, it's a completely different plant, but it's
Speaker 1: used as a spice or an herb. It's got a pungent,
Speaker 1: garlicy taste and it just doesn't taste anything like cilantro.
Speaker 1: But if you've ever had sofrido, which is it, I
Speaker 1: guess almost like a seasoning as much as it is
Speaker 1: a dish. Yeah, that that has culantro in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like sofrido.
Speaker 1: I do too, although at what's the place, the place,
Speaker 1: the burrito place.
Speaker 2: Chile Chipotle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's Sofrido is all Tofu. So that's my really
Speaker 1: only experience with sofriedo. I'm like, I kind of like this,
Speaker 1: but not all that much.
Speaker 2: It's because it's Tofu.
Speaker 1: The reason I bring up safrido is because in Puerto
Speaker 1: Rico that's a big part of their rice and beans,
Speaker 1: actually rice and pigeon peas too. They call there's ros coandus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, delicious, I've had that in Puerto Rico.
Speaker 1: Boy, you've been all over, haven't you.
Speaker 2: Well. I had never been to any Caribbean island in
Speaker 2: my life until like ten years ago, and then we started,
Speaker 2: you know, once we had a daughter, we started doing
Speaker 2: some of those places. I mean, we've ticked a few
Speaker 2: of those off the list, and they're the people at
Speaker 2: I haven't had a bad experience at any of them.
Speaker 1: No, I'm sure not. Have you been to a Ruba?
Speaker 2: I have not been to a Ruba yet.
Speaker 1: Strongly recommend. Oh okay, great, it's a good beautiful, beautiful beaches,
Speaker 1: really nice slow pace.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The only thing is you know how you said like
Speaker 1: all all, Like every Caribbean island has its own rice dish.
Speaker 1: They also typically have their own like signature like tiki drink.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sure, and Aruba's is lacking. It's not it's
Speaker 1: something that they could they could really focus on and improve.
Speaker 1: But I think there's like it's good enough, it's fine.
Speaker 1: But that was the only I don't even call it
Speaker 1: a complaint. That was the only thing of note No,
Speaker 1: that was the only well complaint I had about Aruba
Speaker 1: in the entire country. It's just really cool.
Speaker 2: Oh great, we'll check it out. I know we're going
Speaker 2: to Bermuda on our cruise. That'll be a first time
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: Do you mean the Bahamas or Bermuda?
Speaker 2: I mean Bermuda, baby, same here.
Speaker 1: I've never been either.
Speaker 2: And we'll be there together.
Speaker 1: We are. It's going to be pretty cute.
Speaker 2: All right, Let's talk about beans and rice, because we
Speaker 2: need to talk about each of these a little bit.
Speaker 2: Beans are some of the oldest foods in the world
Speaker 2: as far as cultivating and growing something. We have archaeological
Speaker 2: evidence that it was grown in meso America's early at
Speaker 2: seven thousand BC, and it is a legome and that
Speaker 2: means that it is a seed grown in a pod.
Speaker 2: And that's the deal of bean farmers, you know, from
Speaker 2: the ancient times. They would select these pods that didn't
Speaker 2: split open when the beads matured, and they could like
Speaker 2: dry and store them easier, because that's I mean, eating
Speaker 2: something out of a can is great, but if you
Speaker 2: really want to make some great beans, you should get
Speaker 2: dried beans and take the time to do that that way.
Speaker 1: I have never ever ever done that. I don't think.
Speaker 1: Oh man, if I have, I don't think they actually
Speaker 1: turned out. I think I have tried it before and
Speaker 1: it was like, how does this even work?
Speaker 2: Well? Do you have an instan a pot or a
Speaker 2: pressure cooker?
Speaker 1: No, I'm bereft.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's the best way to do it, or
Speaker 2: maybe the easiest modern way to do it.
Speaker 1: But the old timey people didn't have pressure cookers, So
Speaker 1: how did they do well?
Speaker 2: That's why I changed my stance from best because that's
Speaker 2: probably the best way is however they did it, they
Speaker 2: probably just long played the long game and stewed and
Speaker 2: boiled them over hours and hours and hours.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you have to soak them like
Speaker 1: overnight to start even just even get started. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I've never I'll have to give it a try again.
Speaker 2: That's why you never did it. You're not going to
Speaker 2: make start on tomorrow's meal today. That's not the joshuay.
Speaker 1: So you were talking about the common bean, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was the one from meso America. That's what we
Speaker 1: think about with like I guess, like pinto beans and
Speaker 1: black beans and all that, right, Yeah, there's plenty of
Speaker 1: other kinds of beans. I mean, we mentioned pigeon peas.
Speaker 1: I think those are African, right, Yeah, there's also black
Speaker 1: eyed peas with known in Africa as cow peas.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Black.
Speaker 1: There's plenty of other peas that don't come from meso America. Chickpeas, lentils, yeah, favas,
Speaker 1: they're not from Mezzo America. Fa fava beans yeah, with
Speaker 1: a nice kiante.
Speaker 2: Africa is I mean, here's the spoiler. We have Africa
Speaker 2: to think for well a lot, but we have Africa
Speaker 2: specifically in this episode to think mainly for beans and rice.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about rice a little bit We went over
Speaker 2: obviously rice a lot in our rice episode, but there
Speaker 2: was there's the Asian variety in the African variety of rice.
Speaker 2: And in the fourteen hundreds, basically in fifteen hundreds, Portuguese
Speaker 2: traders introduced the Asian rice to Africa and that basically
Speaker 2: replaced the native species because it was easier to grow,
Speaker 2: and it was you know, you could because it was
Speaker 2: easier to grow, it was more lucrative. But that original
Speaker 2: African rice was cultivated on what was called the Rice
Speaker 2: and West Africa.
Speaker 1: Right, apparently we have the Senegal Gambians, which is now
Speaker 1: Senegal and Gambia. Have you ever seen a map of
Speaker 1: Senegal and Gambia.
Speaker 2: I don't know that I've ever paid attention.
Speaker 1: I think the Gambia River kind of goes through the
Speaker 1: middle of the country and if you put a buffer
Speaker 1: around the river that's Gambia, it's like it stabs from
Speaker 1: the coast into Senegal. It's really interesting. But they used
Speaker 1: to be one empire, and this empire was essentially considered
Speaker 1: the cradle of West African or even all of Africa's rice.
Speaker 1: So if you felt like coming over and stealing African
Speaker 1: people from their homes, to plant rice in the New World,
Speaker 1: you would visit Senegal or Gambia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I can't remember now what we talked
Speaker 2: about in the rice episode, but there obviously was a
Speaker 2: theory that the Spanish Conquistadors are who brought rice to
Speaker 2: like the Spanish Caribbean and Mexico. But you know, there
Speaker 2: is an argument that because enslaved Africans were brought over
Speaker 2: in such great numbers that they they brought the culture
Speaker 2: of it, because apparently the conquistadors were Spanish Catholics in
Speaker 2: the sixteenth century who who thought rice was like pagan
Speaker 2: food of Muslim wars. So while they might have technically
Speaker 2: brought rice, they didn't have the culture of like knowing
Speaker 2: about rice and knowing how to grow it and how
Speaker 2: to best eat it that they had in West Africa.
Speaker 2: So in Mexico, when West Africans arrived there as slave labor,
Speaker 2: they brought their rice with them and probably first planted
Speaker 2: rice in Mexico.
Speaker 1: Right exactly. I thought that was pretty interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And the original sort of I guess
Speaker 2: ancestor you would call it of African beans and rice
Speaker 2: dishes is from Senegal and it's called chibu ni yebay
Speaker 2: and that is African rice and cow peas that were
Speaker 2: native to West Africa there, and it's considered a sacred
Speaker 2: dish over there.
Speaker 1: Yes, and cowpeas, remember I said, are black eyed peas,
Speaker 1: So this is like black eyed peas in rice. This
Speaker 1: is considered like at least the earliest kind of documented
Speaker 1: rice and beans dish that anyone's been able to trace
Speaker 1: back to West Africa. Yeah, and there's a direct line
Speaker 1: between that and Hop and John, which is essentially the
Speaker 1: same thing. You just add a pound of bacon when
Speaker 1: you cook it and change the name.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think they're both generally served or traditionally
Speaker 2: served with cheez. Why am I blanking now? The green
Speaker 2: collar collar greens?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, I forgot about that part.
Speaker 2: I love color greens, but have you ever tried to
Speaker 2: make them?
Speaker 1: I actually make a really good collared green.
Speaker 2: Okay, I bet it's good. But theroblem is you got
Speaker 2: to buy, like you gotta get like three grocery carts
Speaker 2: full of them to make a meal for a family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just throw it away they cooked down. No,
Speaker 1: you have you have to have a really good sized stockpot.
Speaker 3: Ye.
Speaker 1: Another thing you can do is is wil tit a
Speaker 1: little bit first, so you don't need as big of
Speaker 1: a stockpot.
Speaker 2: Look at you.
Speaker 1: The biggest pain is to wash it off because there's
Speaker 1: so much of it, washing all the grid off. You
Speaker 1: just can't find collars unless they're bagged and already washed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're going with fresh, you gotta wash them off.
Speaker 1: And it's a pain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: But I I don't like pork. I don't eat a
Speaker 1: pig if I ever can help it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Again, they're really smart, and I feel terrible. Turkeys are
Speaker 1: not smart, and I have no problem eating them, and
Speaker 1: so I would use like a smoke turkey wing rather
Speaker 1: than a hamhot when it does, that's same thing. It's
Speaker 1: really good. A little bit of rice wine vinegar in there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like it's essentially those two ingredients are about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's you know, I'm not a big vinegar guy,
Speaker 2: but that's where that's where I like vinegar my college
Speaker 2: and of course that's a Southern thing, but also, like
Speaker 2: we said, comes from Senegal originally in spirit at least
Speaker 2: we talked about in the rice episode. The Emily just
Speaker 2: walked by and s waving at me, and she never does.
Speaker 1: That Hey, Josh says, hello, she.
Speaker 2: Didn't wait back. No, I'm just kidding. She didn't hear
Speaker 2: me in this. In the American South, you know, rice
Speaker 2: was a huge cash crop before cotton and tobacco came along,
Speaker 2: and of course in Carolina because recently it was probably
Speaker 2: the rice episode where we talked about the Carolina gold rice.
Speaker 2: Carolina plantations were really seeking out the Senegambians to to
Speaker 2: you know, to lead the rice planting effort there, and
Speaker 2: so that's where they concentrated their efforts as far as
Speaker 2: their brutal slave trade went.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a real distinction between the slave trade
Speaker 1: that came later when it was a focus on sugar,
Speaker 1: cane and cotton. Is when you purchased a Senegambian slave,
Speaker 1: you were purchasing their knowledge as well as their labor
Speaker 1: to help plant low country rice in the Carolinas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which you know, That's one of the other things too,
Speaker 1: is these same West African early slaves introduced a lot
Speaker 1: of root vegetables to America as well, because they were
Speaker 1: in some cases a lot of cases I would imagine,
Speaker 1: able to grow their own food, and so they would
Speaker 1: grow stuff from home like yams and things like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, well, on slave ships, they would bring
Speaker 2: over their food to obviously sustain them for that trip.
Speaker 2: And then once they you know, reached wherever their destination was,
Speaker 2: which was you know, a huge diaspora, obviously they would
Speaker 2: plant that stuff because that's what they like to eat.
Speaker 2: And before you know it, if they were working like
Speaker 2: and like the plantation homes and serving the plantation owners,
Speaker 2: they would serve them those meals and that's how it spread.
Speaker 2: It's a you know, it's a pretty ugly past that
Speaker 2: we have to acknowledge.
Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking about that. I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is going to end up in the episode,
Speaker 1: but there's like there's such a fine line between just
Speaker 1: talking about stuff like this matter of factly because all
Speaker 1: of this stuff did happen, i know, while also acknowledging
Speaker 1: just the horror that was, like the basis of it
Speaker 1: are going on in the background, without hitting everybody over
Speaker 1: the head, right and detracting from what you're trying to say.
Speaker 2: Now, I'm with you, man, It's it's an uncomfortable topic
Speaker 2: every time, but we can't do episodes on things like
Speaker 2: like so much that we owe to Africa and not
Speaker 2: and like, you's surely not gonna whitewash it. So no, no, no,
Speaker 2: it's just one of those things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I don't, I don't mean to suggest Yeah no, no,
Speaker 1: let's you stop talking about that part.
Speaker 2: We weren't out in New yorren't suggesting that obviously. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, but one thing that did kind of stand out
Speaker 1: to me was so the first you mentioned like, if
Speaker 1: you worked in like the plantation house, you might serve
Speaker 1: something from home. And that's where Hop and John came from.
Speaker 1: Quite clearly, from the Chibu naybe to Hop and John
Speaker 1: actually went through a South Carolina Charleston aristocrat named Sarah Rutledge,
Speaker 1: who anonymously wrote an eighteen forty seven cookbook that was
Speaker 1: the first printed recipe for Hop and John. And so
Speaker 1: it's quite clear that her her enslaved staff was like,
Speaker 1: let me make you something from my homeland, and she
Speaker 1: was like, this is crazy good. But that like that
Speaker 1: kind of brought me into that actual like dining room
Speaker 1: where there are people sitting there, and I'm sure Sarah
Speaker 1: Rutledge was like, you're never gonna guess what my you know,
Speaker 1: Tanya has made for us as a special treat showing
Speaker 1: off to her guests what her enslaved servant has come
Speaker 1: up with. And it's like, just think about sitting at
Speaker 1: that table and being served by somebody who you know
Speaker 1: is not allowed to leave, and if they try to leave,
Speaker 1: they will be murdered, and the person who murdered them
Speaker 1: is not going to be arrested or tried or convicted.
Speaker 1: And that's just how things are really think about, Like,
Speaker 1: sitting at that table, isn't that nuts?
Speaker 2: I know, it's hard to wrap your head around. And
Speaker 2: I wonder if they're like existing diaries from people of
Speaker 2: the time that had any new like if any of
Speaker 2: them felt bad about this stuff.
Speaker 1: I wondered that too, because yes, you know a lot
Speaker 1: of times people are like, well they were just of
Speaker 1: their time, and that certainly does explain a lot of behavior,
Speaker 1: like that's just how society was. So there are plenty
Speaker 1: of people who probably didn't give much thought to it.
Speaker 1: There is no way there wasn't also plenty of people,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure including people in the South, who are like,
Speaker 1: this is messed up, and maybe they didn't do anything
Speaker 1: about it or say any about it. Yeah, surely there.
Speaker 2: Were no you'd like to think so you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: all right, let's take a break and regather. It's an
Speaker 2: interesting thought experiment, and we'll come back and get back
Speaker 2: to beans and rice. Right after this.
Speaker 3: You came along and it was like, yeah, well we
Speaker 3: were work pals.
Speaker 2: All right, we're back with beans and rice. We were
Speaker 2: talking about, obviously, the spread of beans and rice through
Speaker 2: the African slave trade. That is certainly the case in Louisiana,
Speaker 2: New Orleans, another state here in the United States, the
Speaker 2: Southern United States, where African beans and rice dishes came
Speaker 2: over and in their case that like you mentioned earlier,
Speaker 2: the classic red beans and rice that actually start out
Speaker 2: in Haiti, where enslaved Africans worked on sugar cane and
Speaker 2: coffee coffee plantations there owned by French colonists. And in
Speaker 2: that case they cooked up pigeon peas and rice and
Speaker 2: a dish. And you're gonna have to say this because it's.
Speaker 1: French riz at poise ruge.
Speaker 2: Oh, come on, play along. Yeah, there you go, And
Speaker 2: that that's the original New Orleans red beans and rice
Speaker 2: came from Africans via Haiti.
Speaker 1: Is that what that means?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, that's that's the lineage.
Speaker 1: The thing I didn't know about this. This is my favorite.
Speaker 1: Red beans and rice I think is so great. I
Speaker 1: mean just because of the flavor, sausage taste too, the flavor. Right.
Speaker 1: But one thing I didn't know about is so apparently
Speaker 1: Monday is the traditional day to eat red beans and rice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Monday was also washed day back in the Antebellum
Speaker 1: era of New Orleans. So the women, the washer women
Speaker 1: who were well doing the laundry on Mondays would use
Speaker 1: the same coals, not the same water, but the same
Speaker 1: coals to simmer rice and beans later on, and they
Speaker 1: would throw in leftover ham from the day before Sundays. Yeah, dinner,
Speaker 1: and you have red beans and rice on wash day. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And apparently that's still a tradition. I think schools in
Speaker 2: New Orleans still serve red beans and rice on Mondays.
Speaker 1: That's pretty great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can concentrate on a few countries now, because
Speaker 2: again that I mean, we can talk about dozens of
Speaker 2: countries that have these dishes. But about half of the
Speaker 2: twelve million enslaved Africans that came over during the Atlantic
Speaker 2: slave trade landed in Brazil. Uh, so we're gonna talk
Speaker 2: a little bit about Brazil. Cuba and Jamaica specifically, and
Speaker 2: today Brazil has maybe I mean it's hard to pit
Speaker 2: these against each other, but they may have the strongest
Speaker 2: beans and rice culture in the Americas because they are
Speaker 2: like every lunch and dinner like we should have beans and.
Speaker 1: Rice, yeah, which I mean that makes sense there there're
Speaker 1: beans and rice dish is called my Portuguese is a
Speaker 1: little rusty. So I'm gonna say, feyada.
Speaker 2: Actually look this one up.
Speaker 1: Oh, let's hear it.
Speaker 2: How how close was there's a jois sound? So it's
Speaker 2: apparently uh yeah, all right, sorry, Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1: That is their rice and beans dish. And just like
Speaker 1: rize poi rouge, there's a definite like connection to the
Speaker 1: slavery area of Brazil as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, because they would do like they did
Speaker 2: in the American South. They would take the what we're
Speaker 2: called like the undesirable cuts of meat that were cast
Speaker 2: off by the plantation owners and like like pig like
Speaker 2: pork cheek and pigs feet and hamhocks and stuff like that, jowls,
Speaker 2: and they would use that stuff. And so the best
Speaker 2: way to usually to cook that kind of thing is
Speaker 2: a very slow cook stew and That's what fejuata is.
Speaker 2: So they could you know, simmer that thing all day
Speaker 2: long while they were you know, toiling and working, and
Speaker 2: they eat that with color greens. Actually that that may
Speaker 2: be what I was thinking earlier.
Speaker 1: Yeah, still, I mean we can rewrite history.
Speaker 2: Collar What about Cuba.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned how the Catholic Spanish considered rice a
Speaker 1: pagan Moorish dish, yeah, or food. That division is actually
Speaker 1: reflected in Cuba's rice dish. Well, it depends. I think
Speaker 1: the west side of Cuba eats they it's called moros
Speaker 1: e Cristianos more like Moors were Muslims and Christians, and
Speaker 1: it's black beans and rice, white rice. And then the
Speaker 1: other side of the island eats congree, which is red
Speaker 1: beans and rice.
Speaker 2: That's right, And apparently it's a metaphor for modern Cuba
Speaker 2: as well. That's a Cuba, modern Cuba.
Speaker 4: That's like people say Washington, Yeah, where you have you know,
Speaker 4: a sort of fairly equal divide of white people and
Speaker 4: black people in Cuba.
Speaker 2: And about I think as high as sixty five percent
Speaker 2: of Cubans descended from enslaved Africans because the indigenous Tayino
Speaker 2: people that was the population of Cuba before the Spanish
Speaker 2: colonizers came along and basically killed them off, not completely,
Speaker 2: but decimated them.
Speaker 1: Right the congre though the red beans and rice that
Speaker 1: also probably came from Haiti, just like red beans and
Speaker 1: rice came to New Orleans. Yeah, through the after the
Speaker 1: Haitian Revolution, when a bunch of former slaves were like,
Speaker 1: let's start traveling.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, rice and beans is a big
Speaker 2: deal in Cuba because of the various times over the
Speaker 2: years that are decades rather that they've been in food
Speaker 2: crisis because of initially like the collapse of the Soviet
Speaker 2: Union and then you know, still ongoing US trade embargoes
Speaker 2: that have left Cuba in a bad state. So rice
Speaker 2: and beans apparently is the sort of a symbol of
Speaker 2: their determination as a people to get by.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought that was pretty cool. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: we can't not talk about Jamaica. Jamaica is its own
Speaker 1: thing as far as rice and beans go. Not only
Speaker 1: do they call their beans peas because remember their pigeon peas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they cook theirs like way differently from everybody else. They
Speaker 1: simmer it in coconut milk. Huge difference is they cook
Speaker 1: the rice and the beans together in one pot rather
Speaker 1: than cooking them separately and bringing them together on the plate.
Speaker 1: They also use different seasonings. So with red beans and rice,
Speaker 1: it starts with the Holy trinity celery, onions and green
Speaker 1: bell pepper, right, Jamaican holy trinity is time, garlic and scallions,
Speaker 1: which I'm fine with both of those trinities, sure, And
Speaker 1: then they also spice theirs up literally with all spice,
Speaker 1: but also with Scotch bonnet peppers, which no human has
Speaker 1: any business going anywhere near.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are pretty spicy.
Speaker 1: And they that's I mean, like this is its own dish.
Speaker 1: But you said it before. It was the Jamaican coat
Speaker 1: of arms. It's just so common that you just have
Speaker 1: that like every meal, from what I understand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I had a almost every year here
Speaker 2: in one of the neighborhoods near me in Kirkwood, they
Speaker 2: have the Kirkwood Spring Fling and then they have the
Speaker 2: chicken wing contest the Wing Fling, and my buddy Matt
Speaker 2: that lives near us is the stuff. You should know.
Speaker 2: Guy has gotten me to be one of the quote
Speaker 2: unquote celebrity judges most years. Yeah, yeah, and this year
Speaker 2: I had a Scotch bonnet wing. That was the hottest
Speaker 2: thing I've ever put in my mouth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not even close to like the hottest pepper.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: It was unbelievably hot. It took twenty minutes for me
Speaker 2: to even feel normal again.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was bad. They're pretty though, That's the thing.
Speaker 1: That's how they get you. You're like, wow, it's a
Speaker 1: pretty pepper.
Speaker 2: I mean, this chicken wing was the color orange I've
Speaker 2: never seen before.
Speaker 1: Man, forget that. Yeah, I would have been like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not the celebrity judge anymore.
Speaker 2: I guess should we take another break? Yeah, all right,
Speaker 2: we'll be right back with why beans and rice is popular?
Speaker 2: Right for this?
Speaker 3: You came and it was like, yeah, well we were
Speaker 3: work pals.
Speaker 1: So Chuck. We've been focusing mainly on the Caribbean, Latin America,
Speaker 1: and Africa as far as like rice dishes go, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and a little bit of the United States more the
Speaker 1: southern area. Sure, there's like rice and bean dishes are
Speaker 1: like so universally eaten by traditional cultures around the world
Speaker 1: that there's actually an anthropologist name Sydney Mintz who's like,
Speaker 1: I think this is actually one of the oldest dishes
Speaker 1: humans make, and that it's been sustaining cultures around the
Speaker 1: world for thousands and thousands of years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's got his own theory. It's called the core, fringe,
Speaker 2: legome pattern, and it's those three things. He basically says
Speaker 2: that in every culture in their diet, they have a
Speaker 2: core grain involved. And as you can tell from our
Speaker 2: rice episode and this one, like a lot of the time,
Speaker 2: it's rice. It can be you know, other things depending
Speaker 2: on where you are, but rice is definitely one of
Speaker 2: the big ones. And then you have a legome to
Speaker 2: complement that grain, in this case beans or peas. And
Speaker 2: then you've got the fringe, right.
Speaker 1: The fringe this is fringe is in Surrey with the
Speaker 1: fringe on top like a decoration, not a peripheral. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the sauceage. It's the seasonings, the herbs and spices
Speaker 1: that make each rice or grain and bean dish unique
Speaker 1: to a specific group or region.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he basically is like, this is this combination
Speaker 2: of these three things. He calls it quote the basic
Speaker 2: building blocks of world cuisine, and it's it's a very
Speaker 2: just super ancient thing that's been around all over the
Speaker 2: world forever.
Speaker 1: I found that interesting that he makes a point though,
Speaker 1: like it doesn't have to be rice, I think even
Speaker 1: though half of the world gets there like eats rice
Speaker 1: every day. Yeah, but there is like other kinds of
Speaker 1: grains as well. Like have you ever had Ethiopian.
Speaker 2: Food, Uh, yeah, it's been a while.
Speaker 1: They have like these kind of pancake like bread, very
Speaker 1: flat bread, and you put the food basically into that
Speaker 1: and make like a little toastata or burrito or something
Speaker 1: out of it essentially, or you can use it to
Speaker 1: sop stuff up. But like that's their main grain, like
Speaker 1: they I don't think you have a meal in Ethiopia
Speaker 1: without that that bread, you know what it's called in
Speaker 1: Jera in Jerra, And I think, so.
Speaker 2: That sounds good. I need to eat food.
Speaker 1: It's been a while for me, but every time I've
Speaker 1: had it, I I loved it. Yeah, And I mean
Speaker 1: Ethiopia is just one place of many. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of other places that also that do use rice as
Speaker 1: the core grain that are nowhere near Latin America, the
Speaker 1: Middle East. I believe in Persia they have a ton
Speaker 1: of different beans and rice dishes. India has something called
Speaker 1: Rajma chawall, which I mean, it doesn't matter what it is.
Speaker 1: If it's Indian food, I'll eat it and I love it.
Speaker 1: But they have Rajma chawall would not exist without the
Speaker 1: New World because they make it with red kidney beans yeah,
Speaker 1: and tomatoes, both of which come from the New World.
Speaker 1: And then they India up with basmati rice.
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. Yeah, Indian food is not something I
Speaker 2: would associate with red kidney beans, so I'll have to
Speaker 2: try to soak that out for sure.
Speaker 1: And then Turkey has something. It's a staple called kuru
Speaker 1: fasuli fasuli v pilav and it's a rice pea loof
Speaker 1: with white bean stew, which sounds good too.
Speaker 2: I love white beans, like a white bean chili.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But Sydney mint seems to be onto something though,
Speaker 1: you know, like they rice and beans in particular seem
Speaker 1: to be like all over the place. And anytimes something's
Speaker 1: like that nearly universal. It's probably pretty.
Speaker 2: Old, yeah, and probably fairly healthy, because if ancient cultures
Speaker 2: are eating stuff for thousands of years, it's probably not
Speaker 2: you know, junk food, right, and that's new you probably heard, like,
Speaker 2: you know, if you eat rice and beans together, it's
Speaker 2: complete protein because they compliment one another and filling in
Speaker 2: the blanks of what like the key amino acids that
Speaker 2: the other is missing. And the amino acids are the
Speaker 2: building blocks of protein. And it's not like that's not
Speaker 2: one hundred percent true, but it's kind of true.
Speaker 1: I've seen both. I've seen that. Yeah, essentially it is
Speaker 1: a complete protein if you put them both together.
Speaker 2: And eat enough.
Speaker 1: I feel like, yes, that's the key. I think if
Speaker 1: you really want to nitpick, you can be like, well,
Speaker 1: complete protein has one hundred percent of all of the
Speaker 1: essential amino acids that you need. They're essential because your
Speaker 1: body doesn't make them an abundant enough supply, so that
Speaker 1: we have to get them from external sources. I eve food,
Speaker 1: and I think there's nine of them. Yeah, there's nine
Speaker 1: of them. If you eat a steak or some tuna
Speaker 1: or like a protein like that, bam, you're covered and
Speaker 1: it doesn't take very much. The critique of rice and
Speaker 1: beans as a complete protein is yes, if you put
Speaker 1: them together, they contain enough of everything that if you
Speaker 1: eat enough rice and beans, you'll have a complete protein.
Speaker 1: I think the world generally is like no, that it's
Speaker 1: a complete protein. Stop being a pedantic putts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you have a cup of cooked pintos at
Speaker 2: six ounces, it's about fifty percent of most amino acids,
Speaker 2: but twenty seven percent of one called methionine. So that's
Speaker 2: what's missing. On the bean side. A cook a cup
Speaker 2: of cooked white rice provides about ten to twenty percent
Speaker 2: of most of those amino acids and fourteen percent of
Speaker 2: the methionine. But when you eat them together, and you
Speaker 2: eat enough, and I think they say the ideal ratio
Speaker 2: is about eighty percent rice dry protein to twenty percent bean,
Speaker 2: it's basically a complete protein. You just have to eat
Speaker 2: a little more. But low card people are like, why
Speaker 2: would you do that when you can have a three
Speaker 2: ounce steak and get all you need.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the bees of rice people are like, why
Speaker 1: would you kill an animal when you can eat rice
Speaker 1: and beans.
Speaker 2: That's a good point. Did you ever eat it? The
Speaker 2: grit in Athens before it closed? The vegetarian restaurant over
Speaker 2: off Prince Avenue off downtown.
Speaker 1: It was not my place, but I ate there before.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think you could live in Athens
Speaker 1: at that time and not eat there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Michael Stipe might have been an owner
Speaker 2: at one point or co owner or maybe an investor.
Speaker 2: But they if you were a poor college student, which
Speaker 2: was like you know, most of the people I knew
Speaker 2: and me and myself were, could go to the grit
Speaker 2: and get it was called the staple and it was
Speaker 2: just white rice and beans with some spices, and it
Speaker 2: was like three bucks or something, and we would eat
Speaker 2: that a lot. It was a good way to get
Speaker 2: a fairly healthy lunch in your body as a college
Speaker 2: student for not much.
Speaker 1: Whenever I think of rice and beans, I think of
Speaker 1: this one man. I'm pretty sure he's a taxi driver.
Speaker 1: And he was eating in a Cuban restaurant in New
Speaker 1: York Upper East Side where Umi's and my friend Mollie lives,
Speaker 1: and it was just around the corner from Molly's house
Speaker 1: where we were staying in. This guy, it was winter
Speaker 1: and he just had this bowl of rice and beans
Speaker 1: and he was eating it. He could have been he
Speaker 1: was middle aged, he could have been a little kid,
Speaker 1: he could have been an old man. The way he
Speaker 1: was eating it. He was enjoying it, but it was
Speaker 1: so so like clearly, the consuming that dish was so
Speaker 1: ingrained in this man that like it was its own thing.
Speaker 1: Like you could have put anybody else in front of
Speaker 1: that bowl, like me eating it, I would not have looked.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't have been fluid, it wouldn't have been It
Speaker 1: just looks so natural the way this man was. And
Speaker 1: then at the same time you could see him being
Speaker 1: like nourished by it was just cool. It drove home
Speaker 1: to me, like just how big a deal rice and
Speaker 1: beans are to a lot of the cultures where they
Speaker 1: are a big deal. It is neat.
Speaker 2: Oh that's cool. I love that. Yeah, I know what
Speaker 2: you mean though, not even with rice and beans, but
Speaker 2: when you see someone from the culture eating the thing
Speaker 2: that kind of defines it and sustains their culture. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's different the way it goes down and the way
Speaker 2: it looks. Yeah, it's like me and fried chicken.
Speaker 1: Right, I'm trying to think of what I eat like that.
Speaker 1: Maybe a donut, Maybe they don't.
Speaker 2: Someone from another country telling a story about visiting America
Speaker 2: and seeing this guy eat fried chicken and his friend
Speaker 2: was eating donuts, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, you can be nourished by beans, though rice
Speaker 1: is fine, depending on the kind of rice. Like the
Speaker 1: problem with white rice is it has a high clistemic
Speaker 1: index Y, which I'm sure we talked about in the
Speaker 1: rice episode, but that basically means it jecks your insulin
Speaker 1: up while you're dyeing it. What's cool is that when
Speaker 1: you eat beans with white rice, the beans have such
Speaker 1: a low glycemic index that it washes out a lot
Speaker 1: of the white rice. Is glycymic index removes it. So
Speaker 1: that's pretty cool. And then beans, of course are just
Speaker 1: on their own nutritious. One of the big things that
Speaker 1: they have lots of fiber, Yeah, which is the component
Speaker 1: of beans that make them the magical fruit. Apparently you
Speaker 1: get more than half of your daily fiber from one
Speaker 1: cup of pinto beans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot. They lower your LDL cholesterol, which
Speaker 2: is the bad cholesterol. They're going to improve your gut
Speaker 2: healthy if you have a risk of well, I guess
Speaker 2: everyone has some risk of colorectal cancer.
Speaker 1: It's getting worse too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to decrease that risk. And what else
Speaker 2: there something about the like it fills you up right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are satiated by two different hormones that are
Speaker 1: triggered by eating beans, which is cool. And you you
Speaker 1: basically digest your food a little slower so you feel
Speaker 1: fuller longer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like last night, not in prep for this, because
Speaker 2: I didn't even bother making beans. We just been traveling
Speaker 2: a lot. We have no food here, and I didn't
Speaker 2: know what to eat, and I didn't feel like like
Speaker 2: ordering delivery food because I hate doing that. So I
Speaker 2: opened up a can of refried black beans and I
Speaker 2: just cooked those and put some spices in them and
Speaker 2: threw some cheese on top and ate a bowl of
Speaker 2: refried beans.
Speaker 1: Nice.
Speaker 2: It was delicious. I farted all night long.
Speaker 1: That's awesome.
Speaker 2: It was great.
Speaker 1: You me eat three fried beans a surprising amount and
Speaker 1: she does not fart.
Speaker 2: Well, that's because you me is perfect and I'm not.
Speaker 1: Oh dude, I'm right there with you, like I've been
Speaker 1: holding it in from lunch the whole time we've been recording.
Speaker 2: She's a real lady.
Speaker 1: That's right. You got anything else about beans, rice, rice,
Speaker 1: am beans?
Speaker 2: Nothing else? I think I'm gonna go on a rice
Speaker 2: and beans terar. How about this? I would love if
Speaker 2: people know a great recipe for that that traditional Mexican rice.
Speaker 2: Send it in.
Speaker 1: Oh good idea. It is so good, I swear to God,
Speaker 1: there's lard, isn't it?
Speaker 2: Probably so? And it takes some time. You know, it's
Speaker 2: not the kind of thing you can just whip up
Speaker 2: in a second.
Speaker 1: Uh okay, sure, that's it depends if you're a Cuban
Speaker 1: taxi driver in New York. I'll bet you could whip
Speaker 1: it up in a second.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: This is a weird episode, Chuck, all right, I'll take that.
Speaker 1: All right. Well, since Chuck's taken weird, that means he
Speaker 1: just unlocked list of your mail.
Speaker 2: This was from our episode on postpartum depression that just
Speaker 2: came out in real time. Hey, guys, I just listened
Speaker 2: to your PPD AP was inspired write in. I want
Speaker 2: to thank you for shining a light on this extremely
Speaker 2: difficult subject, specifically the parts in which you acknowledge the uncomfortable,
Speaker 2: intrusive thoughts that some moms might experience. The first time
Speaker 2: mom of a four month old been diagnosed with PPD
Speaker 2: and I'm getting all the treatments you outlined it your episode,
Speaker 2: but it's still a lonely journey. And your episode is
Speaker 2: a very succinct, accessible way to inform people that support
Speaker 2: me in my life about what I'm experiencing. So as
Speaker 2: a woman, I'm always second guessing my feelings even when
Speaker 2: it comes to my PPD symptoms. But the stats that
Speaker 2: you shared in the episode remind me that this is
Speaker 2: very real and I'm not just being dramatic. So, as
Speaker 2: two CIS men, you did a great job and keep
Speaker 2: doing good work. And that is Rachel from Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 1: Nice. Thank you very much Rachel for writing in to
Speaker 1: tell us that, because that's exactly why we did that episode.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, and we're you know, if you're in
Speaker 2: our thoughts, I know that's a very lonely place to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, well said Chuck. Hopefully listening to that episode
Speaker 1: made people who are going through PPD.
Speaker 2: Stuff you should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
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