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Speaker 1: What's up. We're all We're back continuing season four in

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Speaker 1: the atl my backyard. Always good to do some shows

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Speaker 1: in a tilS a lot of people that we need

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Speaker 1: to talk to. Um. Today we have the founder of

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Speaker 1: the Source magazine, The Legend, who has a lot of stories.

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Speaker 1: Also the co founder of hip Hop Weekly, my guy,

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Speaker 1: Dave Mays. Welcome to all the smoke guys. What up?

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Speaker 1: Always good to see great, Thank you guys for his

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Speaker 1: life right now. What's going on with you? Oh man,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited. I got some some new things going

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Speaker 1: that are starting to really uh take off and I

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Speaker 1: think can have an impact. Out Here created a platform

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Speaker 1: about a year ago called Breakbeat. You know. It's designed

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Speaker 1: to be a content and technology company for the hip

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Speaker 1: hop community. Obviously, I've been involving hip hop, you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty much my whole life now, but I see like

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Speaker 1: avoid out here still to create a platform that's a

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Speaker 1: little more authentic, that really has the interests and perspectives

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Speaker 1: of the culture and the community more front and center,

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Speaker 1: and is going to stand behind those across the board

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Speaker 1: and also really try to bridge the gap of the ages.

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Speaker 1: Because hip hop spans over three generations now, but they

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Speaker 1: kind of divided us through the music, where the older

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Speaker 1: people kind of don't like the younger people's music, and

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Speaker 1: it's all that narrative back and forth. But beneath the music,

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Speaker 1: hip hop is a way that you think, a way

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Speaker 1: that you view the world if you've been you know,

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Speaker 1: grown up and been influenced by it. And I think

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Speaker 1: whether you're you know, forty nine or nineteen, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a lot of same point of view and perspectives

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Speaker 1: and a lot of things in our world. A lot

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Speaker 1: of times people underestimate hip hop. They still just think

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Speaker 1: of it as music and entertainment. There's still not really

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Speaker 1: respecting the culture and everything that comes, you know, really

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Speaker 1: the foundation of it. Talk to us about your upbringing. Uh, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm born and raised in Washington, DC. Um so, I

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Speaker 1: grew up in the city, went through the public schools. Uh,

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Speaker 1: just kind of fell in love with the music and

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Speaker 1: the culture of the city at a young age. You know,

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Speaker 1: so in those days, this was really when go go

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Speaker 1: was emerging in in DC. So that was really you know,

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Speaker 1: among my first love as well as you know, so

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Speaker 1: R and b M. I just kind of got into

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Speaker 1: all of that from a young age, and yeah, you

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Speaker 1: know that's stuff where it started. I mean, hip hop

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Speaker 1: has never really made it in DC because of Go

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Speaker 1: Go the way it did in so many almost every

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Speaker 1: other city. So I was you know, I got some

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Speaker 1: hip hop when I was in DC. You know, I

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Speaker 1: heard rappers. The Light that I was the first song

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Speaker 1: I heard when I was in sixth grade and knew

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Speaker 1: all the lyrics to it. But it wasn't until I

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Speaker 1: left DC to go to college. I went to Harvard

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Speaker 1: this is nineteen eighty six that I became more fully

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Speaker 1: like really immersed in in hip hop. Well obviously Harvard

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Speaker 1: Historical School. Uh what drove you that direction? Um? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, my family was a family that you know

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Speaker 1: kind of valued education and achievement, and so I always

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Speaker 1: kind of was instilled with the idea that I would

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Speaker 1: go to a really good school. You know, I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, fortunate that I did well, you know, grade wise,

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Speaker 1: but also you know, extracurricular activities and sports. You know,

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Speaker 1: I played a little basketball back in the day. We

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Speaker 1: get what was your game? Like? This is still all right?

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Speaker 1: Still you know a little little Elvin Hayes. You know,

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Speaker 1: I grew up school. Yeah, but uh yeah, so um,

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Speaker 1: you know, just um, you know, I had the opportunity

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Speaker 1: because of all that, coming out of a public school

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Speaker 1: that was considered diversity for for Harvard back in the

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Speaker 1: end of the days. Um and uh so, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was really it. But when I got there was it

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Speaker 1: was kind of different because I didn't really know what

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Speaker 1: to expect in terms of, like, you know, the the

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Speaker 1: culture and the people there. You necessarily don't think hip

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Speaker 1: hop Harvard. Those aren't really synonymous with each other. So

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Speaker 1: what was that? Was it a huge culture shock or

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Speaker 1: you know, I know you were being you, but was

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Speaker 1: it a little different? Yeah? Absolutely. I mean it's Harvard's

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Speaker 1: come a long way now. I've seen some things coming

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Speaker 1: in the last few years where they you know, definitely

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Speaker 1: hip hop as a as a strong presence there. But

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Speaker 1: back in those days, no, it was a total culture shock.

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Speaker 1: I'm walking around campus with my Fielaw sweatsuit on and

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Speaker 1: you my bringing my DC style up there. People are

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Speaker 1: looking at me like who is this guy? And I

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Speaker 1: couldn't really fit in with anybody there. I started, you know,

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Speaker 1: making friends with people off campus, people that would come

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Speaker 1: into the gym and play ball from the neighborhood, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I ended up starting a radio show and

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Speaker 1: that it was called street Beat, and that really became

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Speaker 1: like a passion for me. Back in those days, there

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Speaker 1: was no rap music being played on a radio commercial radio.

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Speaker 1: The only time place you really could hear it was

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Speaker 1: college radio. So I was able to actually build a

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Speaker 1: big presence in the city with street Beat because you know,

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Speaker 1: I was just very dedicated to getting the newest music

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Speaker 1: and building relationships with the record labels around around the country,

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Speaker 1: and it gave me an outlet to the city. So

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Speaker 1: when concerts would come to Boston, I'd be able to

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Speaker 1: go down and you know, tend them in the city,

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Speaker 1: different things like that. So, uh, but I was always

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Speaker 1: an entrepreneur growing up. Um, you know, lemonade stands and

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Speaker 1: had a lawnmowne business and Junior High with you know,

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Speaker 1: eighty clients and business cards. I used to loans too.

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Speaker 1: I didn't have eighty of it, but yeah, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: had a gun, yeah my boy David Scribner. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I always had that entrepreneurial bug. And so through

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Speaker 1: the radio show. You know, this really leads into how

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Speaker 1: the source was created. Because I had listeners all over

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Speaker 1: the city. People would call in. You know, it was

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Speaker 1: late night, you know, Friday night, midnight, one of them

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Speaker 1: type of thing. But people would be calling, so I

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Speaker 1: knew we would building an audience. And one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I picked the radio station was you could make

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Speaker 1: commission on ad sales, which was unique. Most colleges you

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Speaker 1: can't sell ads, so but Harvard had a thing where

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Speaker 1: you could sell sponsorships. So that was my thing. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go around to all these businesses and buston

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Speaker 1: and try to get some sponsorship dollars. And people were

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Speaker 1: laughing at me, like, man, nobody's listening to, you know,

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Speaker 1: rap on a on a Harvard radio station. Because the

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Speaker 1: Harvard station was known for classical music and played almost

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Speaker 1: all classical music all day long. So I got frustrated

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Speaker 1: and came up with the idea, let me start building

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Speaker 1: a mailing list of my listeners. So every week I

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Speaker 1: would go on the areo, you know, call in join

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Speaker 1: the street beat mailing list, and I would write down

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Speaker 1: names and addresses of everybody that called in. I would

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Speaker 1: set up a little sign up boxes around town for

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Speaker 1: people to drop their name and address, and I built

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Speaker 1: up like maybe a thousand something names and addresses or

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Speaker 1: hip hop fans in Boston. And then that's when the

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Speaker 1: idea came, let me create a newsletter to give out

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Speaker 1: this news and information because answering those phones all the

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Speaker 1: time and talking to people, what I kept hearing is,

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Speaker 1: you know, people were thirsty for any information about hip

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Speaker 1: hop because again in the eighties, hip hop was big.

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Speaker 1: You have you know, run DMC and you know many

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Speaker 1: others that had had created a huge market, but there

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Speaker 1: was no information anywhere. You couldn't find it on the radio, newspapers, TV,

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Speaker 1: nothing like that. So people would always call in, when's

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Speaker 1: the new you know, Public Enemy album coming out? Or

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Speaker 1: who produced that you know remix for EBMD or you know,

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Speaker 1: different things like that. So that kind of sparked the idea, Man,

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Speaker 1: I can you know, get information from my contacts at

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Speaker 1: the different record labels and then put it into a

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Speaker 1: newsletter form and sell the advertising on the back. So

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Speaker 1: that's what I did. The first issue of The Source

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Speaker 1: was one single page yellow sheet, front and back. I

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Speaker 1: saw four ads on the back, total of maybe one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty two hundred dollars. But I was happy,

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Speaker 1: but crazy and just kept flipping it from there. Remember,

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Speaker 1: what it was about. What it was about that first one.

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Speaker 1: I mean basically it had a chart of the top

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Speaker 1: maybe twenty songs of the month. It had a column

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Speaker 1: of news that just kind of had little tidbits of

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Speaker 1: different news and information I had. We had like a

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Speaker 1: list of sneak preview of upcoming albums when they were

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Speaker 1: coming out, concerts coming to town, and like a trivia

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Speaker 1: question it was, you know, do you feel that whole page? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly After college you take your talents to New

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Speaker 1: York to try to build your brand. What was the

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Speaker 1: ups and downs of of doing that and starting that off? Man, Well,

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Speaker 1: so I start the source between my sophomore and junior years,

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Speaker 1: so it gets going, you know, into junior year, senior

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Speaker 1: year's growing. You know, very quickly I saw, you know,

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Speaker 1: the vision of trying to create kind of the Rolling

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Speaker 1: Stone for the hip hop generation, because I had been

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Speaker 1: given a book on the history of Rolling Stone magazine,

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Speaker 1: which I didn't know anything about, but I saw all

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Speaker 1: kind of parallels between rock and roll and hip hop

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Speaker 1: and how this guy, Yan Winner had created a kind

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Speaker 1: of underground newspaper and built it up into you know,

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Speaker 1: like the biggest pop culture you know, voice in America

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Speaker 1: in the age in the nineties. So I'm like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I can do the same thing for hip hop. So quickly,

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Speaker 1: you know, it started going to you know, become more

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Speaker 1: of a booklet and a magazine, and I began to

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Speaker 1: distribute it around the country. I would call up mom

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Speaker 1: and pop record stores in every city around the country

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Speaker 1: and say, hey, I got this new magazine. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: ship you, you know, ten copies on consignment. You know.

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Speaker 1: I would just get it out there and people started

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Speaker 1: buying it. And you know, because that was how people

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Speaker 1: got information back in the day. You went to your

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Speaker 1: local record store. Yeah, that was really the only place

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Speaker 1: you can kind of get anything, so the source would

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Speaker 1: be right there on the counter. We started selling hundreds

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Speaker 1: thousands of copies. So it became, uh, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: in college, but now I got to figure out, how

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Speaker 1: do I move to New York, How do I set

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Speaker 1: up an officer in New York? How do we start

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Speaker 1: kind of paying salaries to ourselves. I was able to

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Speaker 1: get maybe four different record companies that really believed in

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Speaker 1: what I was doing and the impact that the US

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Speaker 1: was having, and I got them to prepay for a

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Speaker 1: year worth of ads. So that's how I raised a

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Speaker 1: little bit of capital, maybe seventy five eighty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: And that was the capital I used to move to

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Speaker 1: New York get things, you know, rolling down there and

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Speaker 1: just kept it pushing. Um. I mean New York was

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Speaker 1: was incredible. I mean you know that was you know,

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Speaker 1: I moved there in nineteen ninety. Um, and you know,

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Speaker 1: this is again the height of hip hop. New York

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Speaker 1: is still you know, the the central you know, uh

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Speaker 1: place of hip hop, although it's obviously you know, getting

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Speaker 1: bigger and bigger you know, everywhere else around the country. Um,

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Speaker 1: but you know you're you're kind of in the in

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Speaker 1: the center of it all the big the big city

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Speaker 1: and uh but you know we we uh we just

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Speaker 1: took it on and and uh um became great. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, I ended up being in New York like

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Speaker 1: fifteen years and um, you know, just a great, great experience.

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Speaker 1: But like you know, a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: challenges along the way. But you know, or did you

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Speaker 1: get and I said, there's a old respect did you

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Speaker 1: get any pushback you know, respectably being a white man

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Speaker 1: trying to kind of I mean, you set the tone

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Speaker 1: for you know, hip hop information getting out. There was

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Speaker 1: there any pushback because of sure, you like there was

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Speaker 1: there was some pushback in the beginning, Like when when

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Speaker 1: I was still at Harvard, I had three other partners

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Speaker 1: that were Harvard students, but my first partner, his name

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Speaker 1: was John Scheckter, and he was white and also Jewish. Um.

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Speaker 1: So there was like stories coming out, you know, the

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Speaker 1: two Jewish guys from Harvard started Hip Hop Magazine, and

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Speaker 1: so some people were you know obviously like hold up,

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Speaker 1: hold up, um. But you know, I always let the

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Speaker 1: magazine speak for itself, you know, the credibility or the magazine,

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Speaker 1: the way that I ran the company from the beginning

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Speaker 1: to the end, you know, and the commitment that I

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Speaker 1: had to uh, you know, to the culture and to

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Speaker 1: keeping it real and you know, not being afraid to

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Speaker 1: you know, get into the you know, into the mud

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Speaker 1: and deal with what comes with with with that to

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Speaker 1: be you know, really accurate about things. So in you know,

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Speaker 1: in the early time, a lot of people began to

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Speaker 1: endorse the source, you know, Caress One and all kinds

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Speaker 1: of you know, he became like a contributing editor or

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Speaker 1: something that those the source in the early days, and

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Speaker 1: John Singleton and different people that you know were getting involved.

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Speaker 1: So you know that really brought more credibility when when

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Speaker 1: you get those kind of stamps from people. But it

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Speaker 1: was the work, you know, it was the work that

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Speaker 1: spoke for itself. And I was always in the background anyway.

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Speaker 1: I was always a guy that you know, just kind

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Speaker 1: of wanted to be in the back and be head

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Speaker 1: down focused on building you know this uh, you know

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Speaker 1: this empire. You started legendary columns like the five Mics.

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Speaker 1: I got a homeboe. His name is five mics right now,

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Speaker 1: but m and a lot of people rated themselves. I

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Speaker 1: was in rating music off that five mics standard. How

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Speaker 1: did you start that? Um well, five mics started like

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Speaker 1: early nineties. It actually the first we started with the

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Speaker 1: rating system for albums that was one to five. But

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Speaker 1: in the beginning it wasn't actually mikes. It was like

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Speaker 1: these little broken kind of record images. But we had

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Speaker 1: the rankings from like whack as number one all the

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Speaker 1: way up to a hip hop classic number five five rating.

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Speaker 1: So maybe a year or so in the idea, somebody

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Speaker 1: on on my editorial team came up the idea to

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Speaker 1: change it to to mikes, and you know, we had

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Speaker 1: the logo that the Source was known for the hand

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Speaker 1: holding the microphone. So yeah, it just became you know,

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Speaker 1: it became the standard in the industry. I mean again,

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Speaker 1: I think it was just, you know, the Source was

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Speaker 1: a place where people that really loved hip hop, you know,

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Speaker 1: could have an opportunity to you know, get involved in

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Speaker 1: the business of journalism and media, whether they were writers, editors, photographers,

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Speaker 1: graphic designers on the business side, you know, executives, advertising production.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the whole office in those days was

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Speaker 1: under twenty five years old, like it was nobody over

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Speaker 1: twenty five and the Source quickly became you know, like

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Speaker 1: just that place. People would come and want to just

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Speaker 1: roll up in the office and you know, people would

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Speaker 1: smoke in the office or out in the stairwell or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and uh it was just a you know, just a

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Speaker 1: cool vibe. So a lot of a lot of artists

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Speaker 1: would come up to the office. I remember Ice Cue,

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Speaker 1: you know, coming up in the in the early days

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Speaker 1: and like, hey, he wants to play us his album,

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Speaker 1: and you know, everybody gathered around the conference room when

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Speaker 1: he's playing his album. And so people really you know

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Speaker 1: respected the Source, just because again we you know, the

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Speaker 1: way that we wrote about stuff, people really felt like

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Speaker 1: it came from people that really understood, you know. And

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Speaker 1: unfortunately that's that's going back to breakbeating what I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to do now. It's like you don't really have that today. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, most of the people that are in the

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Speaker 1: media space, you know, I don't feel a lot of

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Speaker 1: them are really uh, you know, committed to the culture.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day, it's become you know,

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Speaker 1: just a business for everybody and a hustle or what

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Speaker 1: have you. And you know, we've lost some of that

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Speaker 1: authenticity and that integrity, um, and things that will help

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Speaker 1: to unify the community and the culture better. You know,

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Speaker 1: every artist in the nineties one in five mics. People

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Speaker 1: will go into the studio to make an album, and

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Speaker 1: that was their goal. I'm going to get a five

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Speaker 1: mic album. I got to come up with something that

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Speaker 1: the Source is going to give five mics to. So

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Speaker 1: you know, people were always uh, you know, coming at

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Speaker 1: us and and um, you know, we got a lot

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Speaker 1: of things right, you know. You know, we became famous

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Speaker 1: with Naas for example, you know, with Illmatic, you know,

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Speaker 1: we gave him a stamp very early on because at

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Speaker 1: the time he dropped Illmatic. He you know, he had

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Speaker 1: a little buzz, but it wasn't like it was crazy

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Speaker 1: at the time, and the source you know, five mics

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Speaker 1: stamp like gave him that boost, you know, the Launch's

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Speaker 1: career before that, you know, Tribal Quests they got five mics.

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Speaker 1: Taylor's Soul u Cube had got one as a few

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Speaker 1: more glad album bet sure man, But we made we

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Speaker 1: made some mistakes too, like you know, the Chronic I

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Speaker 1: still take pride in it. We gave it four and

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Speaker 1: a half mics is obviously a five mic album. Um,

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Speaker 1: we did go back some years later and revised ratings

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Speaker 1: just you know, we had to just kind of I

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Speaker 1: don't recall about Southern playlistic. I mean, I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: Southern playlist. He is an incredible classic album, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and so influential. I mean Outcasts as a whole is

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Speaker 1: such an influential, uh you know group in the evolution

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Speaker 1: of hip hop and what they brought to the table

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Speaker 1: and the doors that they opened. Um, and they made

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Speaker 1: amazing music. But I think they got five mics. Forum

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Speaker 1: Stankonia or I'm forgetting, but they definitely got a five mic.

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Speaker 1: They didn't get it on or Southern playalistic, but they

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Speaker 1: did get it. Yeah. Was there was there a time

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Speaker 1: or a cover or anything where you felt like, okay,

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Speaker 1: like we're here, where we are official? Was there a

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Speaker 1: point of time when you felt like that. Yeah. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's hard because, like I was beginning, I'm the guy

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Speaker 1: that like never stopped to like, oh man, we made it,

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Speaker 1: or you know, I'm already on the next five moves

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Speaker 1: down the road. So it's like, I don't really I

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Speaker 1: wasn't taking the time to really sit back and say, man,

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Speaker 1: But I can say one of the most you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of exciting moments for me in that era was

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Speaker 1: the first time I heard Juicy playing on a radio

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Speaker 1: in New York and with Big, you know, shouting out

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Speaker 1: the source miles every time I face is up in

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Speaker 1: the Source. Now we had to scu Big. That's another

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Speaker 1: legendary column from the magazine is the Unsigned Hype column.

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Speaker 1: You know, we we're the ones that reviewed Big demo

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Speaker 1: tape that he made just for the Source, and mister

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Speaker 1: C brought it up to us put him in Unsigned

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Speaker 1: Hype and maybe March of ninety two, a few months later, well,

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Speaker 1: a few weeks later, I get a call from Diddy

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Speaker 1: Puffy at the time, who's telling me about his new

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Speaker 1: imprint deal that he's been given at Uptown. You know,

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Speaker 1: he was in our uptown and that he was looking

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Speaker 1: for rappers. So I called up my boy, Mattie C.

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Speaker 1: Maddie is the guy who really ran the Unsigned Hype

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Speaker 1: column for years and was the one who picked a

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Speaker 1: lot of the big names that came through that column,

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Speaker 1: including Biggie. So I told him. Matt was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we just put big you know in the magazine. Let's

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Speaker 1: get him that And Matt ended up bringing the tape

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Speaker 1: to him and he I signed, you know, a few

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Speaker 1: weeks later. So y'all connected the dots between Big, Impup, Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: Common Mob, Deep, DMX, all those type of guys, Higned,

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Speaker 1: eminem Component, Noriega, David Banner, Joel Santana, Jail Electronica, Pitbull,

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Speaker 1: Joel Ortiz. There's a few more I'm forgetting, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a very legendary column and it's actually the

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Speaker 1: subject of the first documentary audio series that Breakbeat is

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Speaker 1: releasing in the next month or so, The history of

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Speaker 1: the source. Well, we're doing Unsigned Hype History of the

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Speaker 1: sources is coming soon. As I say, that's not all,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's something that we need to talk about. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: got be talking more about that. Come on bringing out

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Speaker 1: the show time. But the story of Unsigned Hype is

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Speaker 1: called um it Was All a Dream, The Untold Story

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Speaker 1: of Unsigned Hype. It's an eight episode limited series. We

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Speaker 1: tell the whole story. You know, how do we get

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Speaker 1: Biggies dem or how did he get the deal? What

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Speaker 1: was going on? And you know Common's life and you

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Speaker 1: learn so much because this is parts of their lives

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Speaker 1: that people don't really know. I haven't really heard these

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Speaker 1: stories before they got signed or right when they get signed.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really excited. We just finished that and we're

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Speaker 1: getting ready to put that out and we have more oops.

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Speaker 1: We have more in that vein coming behind it. I'm

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Speaker 1: also been working for over a year now on the

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Speaker 1: Larry Hoover Life Story. You know, we're the first to

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Speaker 1: ever get the authorized rights to Larry's life story. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's going to be an eight to ten part audio

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Speaker 1: documentary as well. So I've been in Chicago, you know first,

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Speaker 1: you know, hand like right on the scene with his

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Speaker 1: family and a lot of his people helping, you know,

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Speaker 1: get that together. But such an important, untold story also

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Speaker 1: that I'm really really proud and excited we're going to

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Speaker 1: be bringing later this year to everybody. Rest in piece,

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Speaker 1: First and foremost to DMX, one of my favorite artists.

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Speaker 1: When you first heard DMX, what was your thoughts? Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean I didn't really I don't really remember hearing

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Speaker 1: his demo. So the thing with DMX is, and you'll

397
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Speaker 1: hear it when you listen if you listen to the

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Speaker 1: podcast we had. We played some of his early music

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Speaker 1: that was brought to us. He sounded totally different. We

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Speaker 1: put him in unsigned hype, I believe in nineteen ninety one.

401
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: He didn't get on until like ninety seven ninety eight really,

402
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Speaker 1: so his career went through a lot of ups and downs,

403
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Speaker 1: different record deals before he kind of landed with Rough

404
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Speaker 1: Riders and Deaf Jam. So we had him an unsigned

405
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Speaker 1: hype before he really got with the Rough Riders. So

406
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Speaker 1: when you listen to his demo back then, his voice

407
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: is totally you know, and his style is totally different.

408
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Speaker 1: So I don't really remember hearing DMX until like, you know,

409
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Speaker 1: get Out of Your Dog came out and you know,

410
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Speaker 1: he's one of the most amazing artists of all time.

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Speaker 1: I mean so prolific, so talented, such a gifted, you know,

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Speaker 1: lyricist and just you know, storyteller and and just figure.

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Speaker 1: And it's you know, obviously a huge, huge loss to

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Speaker 1: hip to have him pass away. So yeah, rest in

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Speaker 1: peace to any stories you can share with us, some

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00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: behind the scenes of any photos, photo shoots, iconic photo

417
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: shoots you've got, Um, well, let me see. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: I like to go back to The Doctor Dre and

419
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Speaker 1: The Chronic because even though we only gave it four

420
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Speaker 1: and a half mics, we did that like before it

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Speaker 1: came out. Okay, I remember getting the Chronic uh an

422
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Speaker 1: advanced copy of some songs. Now at this time, you know,

423
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: Dre had left NWA. People didn't really know what was

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Speaker 1: going on with him. He didn't you know, have a

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00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: deal he had gotten with Sugar and they were, you know,

426
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Speaker 1: making this album. Um, and it ends up coming to

427
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: me and I'm like, man, you know this is going

428
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: to be amazing, Like we got to put Dre on

429
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: the cover. You know, I started making calls. I ended

430
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: up having to fly out to LA and got introduced

431
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: to Sug and had to basically go sit with him

432
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: and convince him like, hey, lets the Source have his

433
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: first cover. You know, we loved this album. We want

434
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: to be behind you, you know from the jump, and he,

435
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: you know, he blessed it and we ended up doing

436
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: that photo shoot with with Doctor Dre with the gun

437
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 1: to his head. That's one of my favorite and one

438
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: of the most classic, uh images of the Source covers

439
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: of all time. H So that was you know, I

440
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: was out there for that cover shoot and uh, you know,

441
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: it was definitely like a view into some of the

442
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: la you know, life and culture having you know, sug

443
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: and all the guys that we that So, yeah, that was.

444
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: That was definitely a one of the one of the

445
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: memorable ones. You're in the you're in the midst of

446
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: building uh you know, a hip hop monster machine. Um,

447
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: you end up partnering or coming together with Benzino. Can

448
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: you speak to the early partnership that you guys had developed. Sure? Um,

449
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: so when I'm in Boston, like I was saying doing

450
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: my radio show, Um, Benzino is part of a local

451
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: rap group that was big in the city and they

452
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 1: were putting out their own records independently. So Um. I

453
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: had gone down to one of their shows, introduced myself

454
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: to the crew and it it was like, you know, you guys,

455
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: come on up to the radio station and do an interview.

456
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: That's how we all met. UM started to become friends.

457
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: His DJ at the time, my man Well, he was

458
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: known as Deaf Jeff back then. Um. He ended up

459
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: joining the radio show and becoming our official DJ for

460
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: a street bat. Um and I liked their music, so

461
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: I was trying to help them with their music. I

462
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: ended up getting them their first record deal with Tommy

463
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: Boy Records. So you know, he was a friend and

464
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: someone that I was working with on the music side

465
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: in the early days. He really didn't have an interest

466
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 1: at that time in the source. He was focused on

467
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: what he was doing, the music and everything else. But

468
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: we stayed friends. When I left Boston moved to New York,

469
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: we stayed in touch and I continued to help him

470
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: with the music. Got them, you know, deal at Flavor

471
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: Unit Records, a deal with RCA Records with Steve Stout,

472
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: different things like that. So there came a time in

473
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 1: around ninety four, late ninety ninety four where I had

474
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: a dispute with two of my original Harvard partners that

475
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: were the editors of the magazine. They had been kind of,

476
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: you know, putting The Source, in my opinion, in a

477
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: bad light because I felt like the success of The

478
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: Source was going to their heads and instead of being

479
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: this kind of supportive voice for the culture and the artists,

480
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: we were starting to get into these kind of personal

481
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: beefs with artists. A lot of people don't remember this,

482
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: but in ninety three ninety four, you know, Public Enemy

483
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 1: made a music video depicting them trashing the officers of

484
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: the Sauce magazine, and you know Snoop had gone on

485
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: BT and was like, you know, fuck the Source. And

486
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: Cypress Hill, who was another group that we really helped

487
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: discover and helped blow them up at the early stages

488
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 1: of their careers. They end up touring the country burning

489
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 1: copies of The Source on stage because of things that

490
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,719
Speaker 1: in my opinion were unprofessional by the writers and editors

491
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: of the magazine. And so we started to have a

492
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: dispute behind that, the Iced Tea conflict. We had a

493
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: big conflict with Iced Tea over cop killer that went

494
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: public so ultra Lee. That led to a situation where

495
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: the editors stage to walk out on me and put out,

496
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: you know, basically a press release and said, you know,

497
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: Dave May's has to step down. He's doing all these

498
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: terrible things, and you know, we're not going to work

499
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: anymore until Dave May steps down. And it got like

500
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: a petition of writers and journalists, um, you know, to

501
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: to sign this petition. Um. So I ended up getting

502
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: through this. It was you know, very challenging time, but

503
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: I was able to basically replace my staff. I brought

504
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: in some amazing new writers and editors, people like Selwyn

505
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: Hines and Carlito Rodriguez and um, you know many others

506
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: that are still doing incredible things, you know in media

507
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: and the culture today. Um. But it was a time where, like,

508
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: you know, I was feeling a tremendous amount of disloyalty

509
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: from people that you know, I had put on you know,

510
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: I started, So I put these guys down, gave everybody

511
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: you know, percentages, that type of thing. So when they left,

512
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: I kind of reached a point where I was like,

513
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: you know, I think Penzano, I think you could you know,

514
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: help me with the source now, and he kind of

515
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: helped me. Had kind of had my back during that

516
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: time because things got a little bit you know rough

517
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: at that at that moment, and that's when I said,

518
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: hey man, you know, I want to you know, give

519
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: you some interest with me in this, and you know,

520
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: have you come on board? So this is around ninety

521
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: five ninety six is when he starts to get involved

522
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: in the Source, and you know, he basically worked with

523
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: me for maybe another ten years until you know, we

524
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: all left. We both left the Source in two thousand

525
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: and six. Um, what was your point of view? Because

526
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: you guys were right kind of in the midst of it.

527
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: The social word started in two thousand, excuse me, nineteen

528
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: ninety one. Plenty of iconic performances and moments in hip

529
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: hop history, but particular one that stands out is the

530
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: East Coast West Coast Beef. What was your point of

531
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: view on it? Because you guys are literally writing the

532
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: thick of it. Yeah, definitely, definitely. Well, this is the

533
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: type of thing that me and Stack were talking the

534
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: other day about the importance of documenting our history properly

535
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: and how it's not being done accurately. So there's a

536
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: lot of misconceptions around this. You know, I haven't told

537
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: my story yet. I'm you know, part of what I'm

538
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: doing now with this new platform is you know, bringing

539
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: my voice out a little more coming and doing stuff

540
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: like this, and working on other projects that are going

541
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: to tell my story and the story of the Source.

542
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: So the Source Awards was an idea that I came

543
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: up with in the early nineties. You know, hip hop

544
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: was being disrespected across the board. It was super popular,

545
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: like I was saying earlier, you know, he was selling

546
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: millions of records, but it was being disrespected across the

547
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: board by anything in the mainstream, the Grammys, any type

548
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: of awards or institutions for music. Old body took it seriously.

549
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: So the idea was, you know, let's create a platform

550
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: where we can really honor and celebrate these amazing, you

551
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: know contributions that people are making, artists, producers, DJs, all

552
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: the different parts you know that we're contributing to the culture.

553
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: So it started like as a column in the magazine

554
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: at the end of the year. It was like, we're

555
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: going to name the best artist of the year, the

556
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: best album of the year. And I brought that column

557
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: to the guy who was producing your MTV raps at

558
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: the time, and I said, hey, let's do a segment

559
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: on your MTV raps where we give out these awards,

560
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: and they agreed. So the very first Source Awards were

561
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: given out I think in the spring of ninety two

562
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: on your MTV raps over the course of the day

563
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: or two and we just had these little trophies and

564
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: people came on and got them. But that was a start.

565
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: Then a guy named Mike Elliott had joined working with

566
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: me at the Source. Shout out to Mike. He's done

567
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: amazing things. Also, Mike is the the writer of Brown

568
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: Sugar the movie, and he's done many other things in

569
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: Hollywood and continuing too. But he got involved, and he

570
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: and I came up with the plan to like actually

571
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: take the Source Awards and make it into a real

572
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: event with thousands of people. And we rented out the

573
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: Paramount Theater at Madison Square Garden in nineteen ninety four

574
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: and you know, put on an incredible show. There's only

575
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: a little bit of footage that still exists from that

576
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: that night out there, but you know, Tupac was there

577
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: at that first awards. I mean, everybody from Hip Hop, Run, DMC,

578
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, Wu Tang, the list goes on. It was just,

579
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: you know, it was an idea like, hey, I'm going

580
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: to bring all of these different parts of the hip

581
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: hop world together in one place that's never been done,

582
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: never been done. It never been done. And I was

583
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: really the only person that had those relationships. Because you know,

584
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: the Source gets some flags. Sometimes people try to say

585
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: we were biased towards the East Coast or what have you,

586
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: but we actually, you know, went out of our way

587
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: to recognize hip hop coming from other parts of the country. Um,

588
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: from very very early on. You can go back to

589
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: the earliest issues of the Source in the eighties, late eighties,

590
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: and you'll see the coverage we gave to you know,

591
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: certain mix a lot or you know NWA or different

592
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: people coming from other parts of the country. UM. So

593
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: you know I had the relationships with the you know,

594
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: the Puffies, the Sugs, the Jay Princes, the you know,

595
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: all the different players at the time to be able

596
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: to kind of get us on the same accord like, hey,

597
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: you know, we want to do this for for hip hop.

598
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: Let's have a show of our own that we can

599
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: really you know, celebrate. So that's how it started. Um.

600
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: The second year ninety five is the one that you're

601
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: talking about. That's the probably you know, one of the

602
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: most famous ones of course, um and that was the

603
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: first televised Source Awards. I paid a syndicator um to

604
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: get it out on to uh, you know, different affiliate

605
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: stations and all the major markets you know, NBC, Fox

606
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: affiliates and different cities. And that's how I got the

607
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: first Source Awards televised sold sponsorships to pay for it.

608
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: But that show in particular, you know, this whole idea

609
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: of the East West and everything that happened, there's there's

610
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: so many layers, you know, to that. But one of

611
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: the narratives that I want to make sure gets you know, corrected,

612
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: is you know, people kind of try to blame the source,

613
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: like we kind of the whole East West thing started

614
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: at the Source Awards that night with the sugar and

615
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: the puffy stuff. But I mean the East West thing

616
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: as a whole. In hip hop goes back to the

617
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: late eighties, okay. You know, the Ghetto Boys and other

618
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: people were making songs basically you know, saying, fuck New York, y'all,

619
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: don't play our music, y'all, don't give us no respect.

620
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: You know, that kind of back and forth have been

621
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 1: going on for some years now. You know, the Death

622
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: Row bad Boy beef was a whole different you know,

623
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: a whole different thing. Um that kind of gets lumped

624
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: into this idea of East West, but you know, it

625
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: really came down to, you know, to a personal beef

626
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 1: that developed between Shug and Poc and Big and Puff.

627
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: But that night, going into that awards, there was no

628
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: like concern, like there wasn't any beef or any you know,

629
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: at that point, you know, there was no back for

630
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: Poc was in jail. He had been talking to his

631
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: shit about you know, Big and stuff from jail and

632
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 1: he was mad. But but nobody knew he was joining

633
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: Death Row. That yeah, he got out like a month

634
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: later after the Source Awards, and that's when now you

635
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: see Sugar shout him out. You know, we want to

636
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: tell Tupac keep your guards of So you kind of

637
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: got a hint that you know, he was it was

638
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: cool with him, but nobody knew that that was going

639
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: to happen. So, um, you know that night to me, Um,

640
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: you know a lot of people, you know, Sugar has

641
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: has been given a bad name and image over the

642
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: years by a lot of media outlets, and so people

643
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: tend to blame him. One of the things that I

644
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: think contributed to that night when Puff performed because death Row.

645
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: First of all, Sugar Knight was the biggest supporter of

646
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: that Source Award. For me, I went to all these

647
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: guys and you know, you know, rounded them up to

648
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: support it. But sug actually put up a hundred thousand

649
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: dollars to build that set the opening show where it

650
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: is like the jail cell. You know, that was crazy.

651
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: So you know for us, that made the show on

652
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: TV look like a million dollars. And you know, he

653
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: was the only one that really put up that kind

654
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,760
Speaker 1: of money, um, you know, and put it into helping

655
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: us with the show. So you know, I had given

656
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: him a lot of tickets, you know, like maybe sixty

657
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: seventy tickets that night. You know, I did all the

658
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: seating charts for every Source Award, so I'm knowing where

659
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: everybody's sitting and trying to manage manage that. But again,

660
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: there was no concern going into that. But Bad Boy

661
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: gave an amazing performance that night as well. Craig mac

662
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 1: Big fathe total you know, legendary performance. But if you

663
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: look back at the beginning of that performance, segment Puff

664
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: comes out. He kneels down in the middle of the

665
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: stage under a spotlight, and he starts talking and he

666
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: says something to the fact of, you know, I live

667
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: in the East and I'll die in the East to me,

668
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: and I haven't had a chance to ask sug and

669
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: I planned to ask him one of these days. But

670
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 1: in my mind, that's something that that Sugar was probably

671
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: sitting there like, oh, really, okay, you live in the East,

672
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: down the East, okay, Because it was shortly after that

673
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: when he got called up to stage and made the

674
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: comments like you know about that, so I think he

675
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: was just talking shit or whatever. He definitely wasn't like

676
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: scared or worry. He goes video because like I said,

677
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: he had he had maybe seventy tickets puff for them,

678
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: had maybe twenty twenty five tickets, so you know, he

679
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: knew he was in there deep and he wasn't really

680
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: worried about it. Of course, you know, there was some

681
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: you know, I was walking around the theater when that happened,

682
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: and you know, I get to you know, call like

683
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 1: you know, back here, and I'm rushing backstage and there's

684
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: all kinds of chaos going on, but there was no

685
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: you know, violence, there was no beef. No punches were

686
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: thrown that night, you know, as you guys saw, you know,

687
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: Puff came out and kind of took the high road,

688
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: and credit credit him, you know for that. But the

689
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 1: back to the original question, the real beef starts between them.

690
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: And this is also maybe a month or so later

691
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: in Atlanta right here when Jake Big Jake, who was

692
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: an executive for death Row excuse me, one of Sugars homeboys,

693
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: but he I knew Jake, Jake Roboles rest in Peace.

694
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 1: I knew him very well because we worked together on

695
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: marketing and things for the label and the source, and

696
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: he was a cool ass dude. And he's the one

697
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: that got killed down here allegedly by Kitties Man Wolwolf

698
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 1: or somebody around them that night. That's when the beef

699
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: became a violent thing and it escalated dramatically from there.

700
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: And that had nothing to do with the source of war.

701
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 1: BMF had something to do that. That was all a

702
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: BMF night. That was a big old whole bunch of stuff.

703
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: So I started that night, That's where it started. And

704
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: the source was always the media outlet, like we were concerned,

705
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: like we're not trying to put out like incendiary things

706
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: just to sell magazines. If you go back and you

707
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: look at the Source, I put sugar on the cover

708
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,439
Speaker 1: and this is in the height of the beef going

709
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: on in mid ninety six. On the cover of the Source,

710
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 1: it's a class of cover Sugar in front of the

711
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: Rose Royce in the red suit. But if you look

712
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: at the words on the cover, it says Sugar night quote.

713
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: This ain't no East West thing. So like that was

714
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: my thing, Like, let me put that message up front

715
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: and center to try to diffuse things. And you know

716
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: that type of thing. Now, Vibe Magazine was the ones

717
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: that were putting out kind of stuff versus West on

718
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: the cover and like hyping shit up. And you know

719
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people blame them, but sometimes they try

720
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: to throw the Source in the mix. So I gotta

721
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: make sure that people know, you know, the differences that

722
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: were there and the way. It just comes back to

723
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: the way these businesses and these magazines and media outlets

724
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 1: we'll run. You know, one of the things I take

725
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: the most pride in and continue to is being independent.

726
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: You know, the Source was started. I had two hundred

727
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: dollars to run that first news letter off never took

728
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 1: any investors, just kept flipping it one issue after another.

729
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: So I was able to build this company up and

730
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: own it one hundred percent, you know, all the way

731
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: up until the late nineteen nineties, never had to take

732
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 1: loans or investors, and that gave the Source a lot

733
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: of control, you know, because we were very influential, but

734
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: we didn't have to answer to anybody. We didn't have

735
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: some corporate backer that was going to come in and

736
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: say you can't do this, you can't into that, or whatever.

737
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: So that's that's one of the things that was really

738
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: important with the Source was that I was able to

739
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 1: build it into something big and remain independent and put

740
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: a lot of people on, you know, put a lot

741
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 1: of people on. Not just through Unsigned Height, of course

742
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: we went down the list of those, but there's many

743
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: many other people that got discovered through the Source. I

744
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: discovered Tyson Beckford, a supermodel, put him in his first,

745
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: you know, little fashion page in the Source in the

746
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: early nineties. I was how his modeling career got started.

747
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: I discovered Aaron McGruder of the Boondocks. He was doing

748
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: a cartoon for University of Maryland's newspaper that I've seen

749
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: and I was like Boom, I put him in the

750
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: Sources national platform and he got his you know, newspaper

751
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: deals and everything else. You know, a lot of like

752
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: I mentioned a few of the people that worked at

753
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: the Source already, and then there's you know, different women

754
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: like Dream Hampton who's become a very successful author and

755
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: TV producer, and Karen to Mayou and many many, many others.

756
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, those those are some of the things that

757
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: I really you know, take a lot of pride in

758
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: and trying to kind of reinvent and bring back into

759
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: this new age with what I'm doing now with Breakbeat.

760
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: As you see, the unfortunate kind of beefs continue to

761
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: escalate and then turn tragic, you know, obviously losing Big

762
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: and Pock, and then fast forward everything between then and

763
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: til now we know recently lost Takeoff, Rest in Peace,

764
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: we have the YSL trial. What do you feel like

765
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 1: the state of hip hop? The music first and foremost,

766
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: but then obviously the beefs and to me, the unnecessary

767
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: violence behind it. Yeah. Um, you know, there's a few

768
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: different things that at play here. I mean, the music

769
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: aspect of hip hop has become you know, corporate driven

770
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: for a long time now, the corporations. There's a handful

771
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: few companies that control all music distribution in the world

772
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. And you know, they,

773
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: in my opinion, the music companies found a way to

774
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: control hip hop in the early two thousands and up

775
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: till today. And you know, I think there's still the

776
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, it still comes. You know, there's still an authenticity.

777
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: It's still coming from people that are speaking you know,

778
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: their pain, their struggle, their you know, whatever they're going through.

779
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: You know. But um, you know, I just think that

780
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: that between the way the music industry has sort of

781
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: pushed a certain style of music, I think that's how

782
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: a negative impact. But the deeper issue is just you know,

783
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 1: America racism, systemic racism, all that it's done to contribute

784
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: to the poverty and the other conditions of our inner

785
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: cities and of many of our you know, poor black communities. Um.

786
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: And you know, you look at what hip hop was

787
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: talking about in the late eighties and nineties with fuck

788
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: the Police and you know, bringing life destruction. Yeah, yeah,

789
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: for a self destruction another one of those. But then

790
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: you look, you know, twenty thirty years later, and things

791
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: are the same or worse than they've ever been. And

792
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: to me, that's a that's a failure on hip hop's part.

793
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: You know, hip hop as a business, you're talking about

794
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: a multi billion dollar business. These resources should be being

795
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 1: put back into these communities where you know, hip hop

796
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: kind of originates and where again that kind of raw

797
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: energy that really still fuel as hip hop comes from.

798
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: And so, you know, I think it's just it's a

799
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 1: reflection of what's going on, you know, in in our

800
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: impoverished communities and the gun violence, you know, the increase

801
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: of gun violence, and you know, the breakdown of of

802
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: of structure and a lot of these cities. You know,

803
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: look at Chicago and what they did taking out you know,

804
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: the Larry Hoovers and other leadership and you know kind

805
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 1: of designed a pathway to create more more chaos out here.

806
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: So I think hip hop needs something like what I'm

807
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: trying to do with Breakbeat, you know, to bring a

808
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: kind of you know, different perspective to create a you know,

809
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: an outlet where you know, voices that maybe aren't being

810
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: heard can be heard. Um, you know, I'm doing it

811
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: through a lot of influencers right now and social media

812
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 1: folks who have been admiring you know, over the years

813
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: on social media and see a talent in them to

814
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 1: kind of become you know, successful in the podcasting game.

815
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: And uh, we're going to be getting more into the

816
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: music aspect of it with some some new shows that

817
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 1: we have coming up as well. Um So, but I think, yeah,

818
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 1: I think we need you know, better leadership, better you know,

819
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: awakening uh to and finding ways to connect those dots

820
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: so we can become more unified. If if we can

821
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: connect the dots between the fifteen and the fifty five

822
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: years old people that have all grown up on hip

823
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: hop and still have a certain passion and love for

824
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: this culture, uh and bring them together, we can really

825
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: affect change in a much greater way than we have.

826
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: So I don't know if I answered it took it directly,

827
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: but you know, I kind of have a bigger picture

828
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: kind of view on that stuff. I mean, we really

829
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: want to, you know, give you your flowers for being

830
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 1: a troupe laser in the hip hop culture. I think

831
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: what you brought to this community obviously it hadn't been

832
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: done or seen. And your ability to be able to

833
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: galvanize and bring everybody together like you said, you know,

834
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: you were in touch with a lot of the people

835
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: they were kind of running the shows, and you were

836
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: someone they were able to get them together. So I mean,

837
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 1: we really want to, you know, obviously give you your

838
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 1: flowers for your imprint on what you did and continue

839
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: to do for the hip hop culture in the community. Yeah,

840
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: And I want to say this today to like you

841
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 1: do need your flowers because in the day of hip

842
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 1: hop and day and time's too many people that we

843
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 1: can said as culture vulchers, but you are. You were

844
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: more of the of the door opener for a lot

845
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: of people in hip hop, you know, and I and you,

846
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: I can't wait till we hopefully get a chance to

847
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 1: tell your story and you tell your story because it's

848
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: going to be beneficial for hip hop for the younger

849
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 1: generation to understand how it started. You know, a lot

850
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: of the ups and downs of the artists that we

851
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: look at and that we know about how they got

852
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: they started. A lot I don't even know that. They

853
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 1: just think now like all you got to do is

854
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: put them on SoundCloud and you become a big rapper.

855
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: That's what you can do now, you know. But when

856
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: they hear about the biggest the DM makes the stories,

857
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: the guys that are pioneers to to this hip hop game.

858
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: I think it's important that that you tell little stories,

859
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: so I can't wait to hear it. But I want

860
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: to give your flowers as well. Yeah, I mean the thing,

861
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: if you look at what I'm doing with Breakbeat, I

862
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,720
Speaker 1: am doing those kind of documentary things, But the first

863
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: stuff that's popping right now is, you know, don't call

864
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: me white girl, Funny Marco Cornbread TV. You were just

865
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 1: with us Bubba Dug a couple of days ago, shown

866
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 1: mug Boy. I just did a show that's gonna be

867
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: our premier show coming up soon, trash Talk. So again

868
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: finding these voices out there that are like just really

869
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: talented and bringing them out and these are people that

870
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: are connecting with the younger generations more. That was emjoying

871
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, with Breakbeats, to make sure that the

872
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: younger people connect with us and respect what we're doing. First,

873
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: you don't try to shove the history down their throats

874
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: or whatever. I think the interest is there, but a

875
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,399
Speaker 1: lot of times it comes off as like you're trying

876
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: to make people. You know, you have to let them

877
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: kind of find it and on their own in a sense.

878
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: So Yeah. That's that's really key with breakbeat is you know,

879
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: letting people know we got all these shows that they

880
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 1: are watching now that that that they love, and we're

881
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: going to be adding more to that roster. Um, and

882
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna be just mixing it up with you know,

883
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: the history, the classic and the current hip hop? Is

884
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: hip hop fifty this year? It is fifty, right, I

885
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: mean what does that mean to you? Knowing that you

886
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: had a huge part in just kind of everything we

887
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: discussed on this interview. UM. I mean it's it's definitely

888
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: a landmark UM, and I'm excited about it. But I,

889
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: like I was saying before, my mind is like where

890
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,399
Speaker 1: we need to be a few years from now, Like,

891
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: because like I said, hip hop, Yeah, it's in a

892
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: great place commercially, you know, as far as generating money

893
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: for individuals that are participating in it, but it's not

894
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: at a great place you know, holistically as something that

895
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 1: can really be a force for change in the community

896
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: and more of a movement for change like it was

897
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 1: in its earlier days. I still think we can bring

898
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: bring that back. You just got to go and create

899
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: that platform. It's going to start to open people's minds

900
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: up to seeing and feeling about things that way and

901
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: seeing these commonalities that we have. So yeah, I want

902
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: to see where we are, you know in five years,

903
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: hopefully hip hop can really be making a change in

904
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: a bigger way to you know, like I said, some

905
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:47,280
Speaker 1: of the I mean the most underlying, important, worst problems

906
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: this country has, you know, racism, systemic racism, and the

907
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: failure to uh you know, accept and address and deal

908
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 1: with it. All of that, you know, is stuff that

909
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: hip hop was in the eighties and nineties, you know,

910
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: opening people's minds too, and becoming a movement towards and

911
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: you know, we have Black Lives Matter now these last

912
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: you know years of course, and you know, of course,

913
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: I know how close you were stacked to um, George

914
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 1: Floyd and the movement that you know, his his murder

915
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: you know, created UM. But if you notice, you know,

916
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: the hip hop and Black Lives Matter, there wasn't really

917
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 1: a convergence of those things. You know, there have been

918
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: people in hip hop that have obviously been vocal, but

919
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: it wasn't like it, you know, a movement within hip

920
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: hop as a music and a culture, so that I

921
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 1: think can make it even bigger if we can get

922
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: that fuse ran together. You know, I just want to say,

923
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: it's harder today because when they made self Destruction, you

924
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: had a lot of rappers around that time that was

925
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 1: on that that was speaking in social sus, that was

926
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 1: talking about that community. It was talking about the betterment

927
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: of black people in non neighborhoods back then when they

928
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: when they created self Destruction. Now you got more rappers

929
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: talking about shooting each other gag, yeah, doing the destruction.

930
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: So it's kind of hard for that. But I'm glad

931
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 1: you said today because that's a big part of where

932
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 1: we need to go to get to where we need

933
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: to get. Yeah, I believe there's some artists out there,

934
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, that that will emerge that will bring that

935
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: voice and be able to you know, stay you know

936
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 1: in a in a lane that people you know who

937
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: are are not as focused on those things will will enjoy,

938
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 1: but also elevate their thinking. And you know that's again

939
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,240
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do with some of my shows

940
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,240
Speaker 1: is you know, keep it fun and entertaining, but also

941
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: you know, put some jewels in there and really get

942
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: people to kind of you know, elevate their thought process

943
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 1: a little bit, right quick, hitters. First thing to come

944
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: to mind. Let us know an album you can listen

945
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: to on repeat one album, Uh, I would say, I mean,

946
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back to the Chronic that's is

947
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: personally probably my favorite album of all time. And you

948
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: know maybe Fromatic and then you know, uh Biggie Life

949
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: After Death and that was a double album all classics.

950
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: If you could redo one cover of the source, which

951
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: one would it be? Oh man redo? Oh uh? And

952
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: not even in a way of just changing the rough

953
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,839
Speaker 1: experience again, this was the one that like sticks out

954
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: to me, okay, okay, um man, that's tough, all right.

955
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 1: I had everybody, Uh, let me come up with a

956
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: good one. Um m m man um kind of kind

957
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: of kind of got me stumped on that um when

958
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: we spoke. When we spoke on it, the first one

959
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 1: you thought was it was the Doctor Dre Yeah. Well yeah,

960
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: Mary Mary is one of my other favorite covers. I

961
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 1: will speak to that. Yeah, Mary j We gave a

962
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,720
Speaker 1: cover very early on in her career. It's a classic

963
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 1: cover where she's sitting on an ice sculpture in an

964
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 1: all silver outfit, shot by one of the greatest photographers

965
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: and creative you know, visionaries of hip hop Chi Modou

966
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: rest in peace. That was my photographer, chief photographer of

967
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: the Source, who passed just a couple of years ago.

968
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: Some of the most iconic images you know that we've

969
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 1: all seen we're taken by che including that that cover

970
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 1: and again, like that was a step for the Source

971
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: because we really hadn't been put in R and B

972
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 1: artists on the cover yet, so you know, that was

973
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 1: a kind of a little kind of edgy move for

974
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: us to take. But you know, Mary was like she

975
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 1: was straight hip hop. You know, she was R and B,

976
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: but you straight straight hip hop, so it made made sense.

977
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, just going back, I was there for that cover. Shoot,

978
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: I remember that I did go to that one and

979
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: had a chance to talk a little bit to Mary,

980
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: so probably would have wished I might have talked to

981
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:03,919
Speaker 1: a little more, um built a relationship with her. But yeah,

982
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: that's this one right here. We're gonna put you on

983
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 1: the spot for real. Top five hip hop artists in

984
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: your opinion, man, all time, all time. This one's gonna

985
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: this is the viral one. So Dave May said, top five. Okay,

986
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: I gotta I've been practicing this. It's hard. I switched

987
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: people in and out. I mean, I go, I gotta

988
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: say Park first, you know, the most important you heard them,

989
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: most influential artists You didn't start time, Yes, sir, Um,

990
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: you know I'll get big in there. Um, it's only right,

991
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:41,959
Speaker 1: you know, I think, Um, it's hard. I mean I think,

992
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: you know, when when you look at just impact and influence,

993
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 1: Uh you know, le Wayne, I think has to get

994
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: get in there just because of you know, so prolific

995
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 1: and so influential least last you know, fifteen years in

996
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: hip hop. Um after that, I mean it's hard. Like

997
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, I have like more of a personal favorite

998
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: of like probably a nas um you know. Um you know,

999
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,320
Speaker 1: I mean I don't. I don't know if Drake quite

1000
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,919
Speaker 1: makes my top five yet He's probably in the six

1001
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: to ten right now. I mean, you know you can't

1002
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 1: overlook rock him. I mean, he's really the foundation of

1003
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: so much that that happened with hip hop in the

1004
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: years that that followed. So um man, I'm probably leaving

1005
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: out Jay somebody. But somewhere around five did I did

1006
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: I get? Yeah? You got laughing the dream concert? Who

1007
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: do you have opening your kind of your dream concert?

1008
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 1: And who do you have closing that are alive, that

1009
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,800
Speaker 1: are alive some probably some of these same same folks.

1010
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: I mean, um, I gotta show outcasts some love. I

1011
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: was talking about them earlier, but they are also one

1012
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: of the most incredible groups in the history of hip hop.

1013
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 1: So I would definitely want to have them on the show. Um,

1014
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, and I would have to close with pop Um.

1015
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 1: You know. They would be the grand finale and there'd

1016
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 1: be some other great stuff in between. M pots the

1017
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: closer for Shore five Dinner guests that are alive oh man,

1018
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:43,439
Speaker 1: um Malcolm x uh Muhammad, Ali, Bob Marley, um shit,

1019
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: tupoc um more and uh m hm um. I was

1020
00:57:54,040 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: on a roll. I need another good one. Um oh man,

1021
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: that's tough. Nelson Mandela nice nice, But it ended last question.

1022
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 1: If you could see a guess on this show, who

1023
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: would it be? But before you answer, you have to

1024
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: help us get your answer on the show, like like

1025
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: Will Smith said Denzel Washington. So we said, well, we

1026
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: need you to get Denzel Washington's coming on the show. Yeah, uh,

1027
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: I mean, who do y'all want? You got a lot

1028
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:40,919
Speaker 1: of connects, don't don't do that? Tell me who y'all

1029
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 1: trying to get that I can help. I mean, Jay

1030
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: Prince would be great. That's my man. That would be

1031
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: a great one. That's my guy as well. Um, and

1032
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: he's doing a lot of interviews right now too, that

1033
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: would be a yeah, he would be nice. Yeah, I

1034
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: got hooked. Jay Prince would be nice. We'll take what

1035
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: I would definitely take the Dawn of the South. Should

1036
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: from prison? Yeah? Should from prison be a hard one.

1037
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 1: J J. Prince would be special for me for sure

1038
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: because I've been raised under that so being from Texas,

1039
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: so yeah, Yeah, he's one of the few guys you know,

1040
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 1: really respect and have looked up to since the beginning,

1041
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,959
Speaker 1: you know, in this hip hop industry because it's it's hard,

1042
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, this industry, uh breeds a lot of you know,

1043
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: selfishness and greed and divisiveness, and it's hard. And he's

1044
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 1: one of the you know, the only real ones being

1045
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: able to keep it real and and you know, remain

1046
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 1: you know, central to things um and the music and

1047
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: the culture all these years. He's done a lot of

1048
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: great things in music, but being from Texas, we respect

1049
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 1: his morals the things he stand on more than anything.

1050
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: I gotta show up to Nipsey Hustle too. Yeah, he's

1051
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: up there with he maybe should have been my fifth

1052
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 1: on the list. I might put Nip up there because

1053
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: I really believe it being in Lauren Hill category. You

1054
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: drop one album like that and be alleged forever Lauren

1055
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: Hills gonna drop one album, right, I'm crazy to think

1056
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: about it right now. She only dropped one album, bro

1057
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: of course. Yeah, she only dropped one album though, and

1058
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: she's a legend. We had one album. We had the

1059
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: Fuji's on the cover, and then Lauren had her own covers.

1060
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: She performed at the Source Awards. Um, yeah, you get

1061
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 1: a chance to meet Nip No nipa Ni Briefly, we

1062
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 1: did get to meet, Um he was in DC for

1063
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 1: a concert and I got connected to him and you know,

1064
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: we spend an hour just chopping it up that type

1065
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: of thing. And I've been on FaceTime with him because

1066
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: he knew about me and my story and he was

1067
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: interested in, you know and learning more and building with me.

1068
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: So we were kind of having those conversations. Um. But yeah,

1069
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: you know, another just just huge loss. I mean just

1070
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: because again he's like one of those few that was

1071
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: really committed to giving back to the to the community

1072
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 1: and you know, trying to make a change. Yeah, there's

1073
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 1: so few when you think of all the people in

1074
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 1: hip hop, you know that really have been dedicated, you

1075
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 1: know to that. So I've you know, a lot of

1076
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 1: love and respectful nipping what he represents just in peace

1077
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: and the well. Man, Dave, we appreciate your time. We're

1078
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: definitely looking forward to you continuing to tell your story

1079
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 1: because I think it's obviously such an integral part of

1080
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: should our lives, to be honest with you, So let's

1081
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 1: exchange numbers if we can help on this side of

1082
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: a y, on this side of the branch. Showtime would

1083
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: love to do that. You know, Showtime was looking for

1084
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 1: stuff for this year, for fifty, you know, for the fifty.

1085
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 1: So who better to tell it? Let's make it? Who

1086
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 1: better to tell it? Before you get up at every man,

1087
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: we got some merch for you. Awesome Showtime merch jack.

1088
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 1: Where can you get that at? And all the Smoke

1089
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 1: Dot Store. Let me say that again, All the Smoke

1090
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: Dot Store. Pick up your gear there and thank us later.

1091
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: That's a wrap, man, Dave made Showtime all the smoke

1092
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: you can catching some Showtime basketball YouTube and the iHeart

1093
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: platform black Effects. We'll see y'all next week. He beat you.