WEBVTT - Funny/Not Funny (with Hannah Gadsby) 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.280 You and Me Both is a production of I Heart 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:09.280 Radio Hannah. Hannah Gadsby, Hello Hillary, Is that what I 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:11.559 called you? Or is it Madame Secretary? Or Hillary? Is 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.400 my name? Hilly Billy, Hilly Billy. I will not call 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:17.479 you that, of course, now that you have it in 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:21.200 your head, you'll never forget it. It's true. And no William, 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.720 Oh my god. Well yeah, I've been calling a lot worse, 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:29.240 as have you. So I'm Hillary Clinton and this is 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:34.199 you and Me Both on today's episode. I'm talking to 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:37.520 one of my favorite comedians. Though in my mind, she's 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.400 much more than a comedian. She's also a provocative thinker 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:45.720 who challenges her audiences to do some serious thinking too. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:51.199 Like many people, I first discovered Hannah Gadsby in eighteen 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:56.840 when I saw her breakout Netflix comedy special Nannette. That 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:00.600 show was a huge success, earning Hannah an Emmy and 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.880 a Peabody Award, which game as a surprise to her because, 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:10.080 as she puts it, Nanette is arguably the most deliberately miserable, 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:14.080 unfunny hour of comedy ever made. If you haven't seen 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:18.040 it yet, the special begins with Hannah's trademark dry humor, 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.399 with self deprecating jokes about her appearance and about the 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:27.160 sexism and gender based violence she experienced in her life, 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:32.720 particularly growing up in Tasmania, the very conservative part of 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.520 Australia where she lived then. And this is a spoiler, 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:40.560 Hannah tells us she's quitting comedy because she no longer 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.839 wants to be party to a form of entertainment where 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:48.800 she introduces audiences to her trauma and then re traumatizes 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:53.800 herself by inviting us to laugh about it. As an example, 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.000 she shares the story of coming out as gay to 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.920 her mother because the response to me coming out when 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:01.640 first told her that I was a little bit lesbian 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:13.080 byby steps, her response. Her response was this, She's just gone, Oh, Hannah, 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:18.360 why did you have to tell me that that's not 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:24.799 something I to know? I mean, what if I told 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:32.040 you I was a murderer. It is pretty funny, but 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:38.200 as she points out, it's also very painful. Luckily for us, 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:42.080 Hannah did not quit comedy. Instead, she found a way 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:45.680 of doing it that does not require her to inflict 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.920 pain on herself or anyone else who's been victimized in 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:55.200 the ways that she has in Hannah released another Netflix 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.840 special called Douglas, which touches on a range of topics 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:04.400 from the patriarchy to anti vax ER's, her haters, her 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:09.359 own diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder or a s D, 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:14.800 which she received in and she's got a memoir coming 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:19.760 out right now called Ten Steps. Tune in net, Welcome 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.280 Hannah to the show. I am so happy to be 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:24.200 talking to you, but first I got to ask you. 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:30.800 I heard you broke your leg, real doozy. I fell 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.840 over walking in Iceland. Yeah, well, there's a lot of 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.960 ice in Iceland. They're not lying. It's on the label 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:42.240 very nice, nice healthcare system there. I had emergency surgery 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.840 and they looked after me. Great, have you done the 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.040 physical therapy that you've got to do in order to 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:48.960 get your strength back? Well, I've got to wait for 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.400 it to heal. So yeah, I've just had surgery. Can 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.080 you get back off a bit like I've caught plates 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.040 and screws in? Well? I can? I can move the foot? Yeah? 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.240 I broke my elbow about to I don't remember. Two 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.040 thousand and nine a long time ago. And you didn't 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.200 do the exercise it did? Oh? No, I did? I 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:07.640 did because I was I was scared out of my 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:09.800 mind that if I didn't, but I have like plates 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:11.680 and you know all that stuff, and I know, I mean, 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:13.120 it takes a while, but you've got to do the 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.400 exercises when they clear you to do it. So that's 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.560 that's my that's my physical therapy advice for the day. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.320 And this is not what I expected, but I will 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:25.080 take it well. I was so excited to talk with 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:31.160 you because I have been a fan. I really appreciate 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:36.480 how you literally have approached not just your comedy, but 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:38.919 I guess your life in a way that kind of 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:43.000 shares it with the rest of us. And in it 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.080 seemed to me from afar that your life was turned 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.880 upside down because your stand up special, and then that 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:51.720 was released on Netflix, which is where I saw it. 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:54.320 People around the world like me met you for the 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.839 first time. And since then, you've put out another Netflix 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.599 special called Douglas. You're soon get hit the road once 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.960 your leg gets prepared and ready to do your new 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.120 show called Body of Work. You've also gotten married, another 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:12.480 big life event, and you've got a memoir coming out. 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.560 Holy moly, I mean, you have been one busy person. 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:20.280 How has your life changed and how if you can 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.800 describe how you feel about all this, because I mean, 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.520 was not that long ago, and so much has happened since. Well, yeah, 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:30.680 a lot happened in my life, and then a lot 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.720 happened globally that has nothing to do with me. So 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.560 it's how to get a measure on what has become 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.599 my life when the whole world has been turned upside down. 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.520 That's true. But for that brief window where I was 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:46.400 the center of the universe, it was a bit shocking. 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.160 I went like, because before this Netflix special dropped, I 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.600 would have classed myself as a successful comedian. I was 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.479 earning money. I was a living wage, which is not 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:59.000 something I've had before comedy b C as we like 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:03.600 to say. And I was regularly touring Australia in the UK, 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.479 so you know, Americans would not have heard of me, 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:11.880 but that does not preclude my existence. So the Netflix 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.159 special just put me up into this model of success 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:19.000 that was not something I was prepared for, mostly because 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.599 you just look out there and you just don't see 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.080 someone like me. And I say fair enough as well, 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.080 like I'm not everyone's cup of tea, you know, I know, 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:32.960 I'm a typical and not riddled with enthusiasm, and I 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.599 feel like that's what really gets you some success. So 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.400 I ran the analytics, and I didn't think I'd be 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:40.719 successful on on a global stage, and so I just 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:42.799 sat back and sat in my lane and did my work, 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.880 and I felt very disorientating to be you know, what 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.800 was the trickiest thing is famous people knowing who I was. Like, 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.000 it's one thing for a lot of you know, people 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.960 who I would say, I like me knowing who I was, 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:00.760 I'm like, well that's weird. But for famous people to 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:02.800 know who I am, I'm not the best person for 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.240 that because I don't always know who people are. So 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.560 I am just a faux pa waiting to happen. I'm 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:12.240 Hillary Clinton, and I'm really and we're so thrilled to 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:16.280 heavy on the spot. But you know, you grew up 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.040 in a place that I haven't yet visited, but I 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.720 you know, really been fascinated by for a very long 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.880 time called Tasmania. Uh what do you know about Tesmania? 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.760 Here's what given I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you what 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:31.600 I know and then and you can tell me how 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.840 wrong I am. It's a big island part of Australia, 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:37.440 but off the coast of Australia there are things called 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:43.480 the Tasmanian Devils. It's somewhat sparsely populated. It is both 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:48.000 agricultural and I guess you know, fishing and things like that. 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:52.160 It's beautiful, but it's also stark, and it's somewhat isolating 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.720 and quite conservative. That's what I know about it. You 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.760 did read my book, Yeah, it's it's um it's so 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:05.560 of like if you threw New Zealand into a gothic nightmare. Um. 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.720 I love Tasmania. I am from there. I grew up there. 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.000 It's all I knew for a very long time. But 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.160 the Tasmania that exists now is different to the one 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.040 that I grew up in. And I think that's a 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:21.120 really important point to make because it, like me, has 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:25.240 evolved and it's quite easy for a single person to 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:27.840 mature and grow up, but it's actually quite difficult for 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.240 a culture to mature and grow up in a short 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:35.800 space of time. And what did that was the gay 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.800 law reform that took place in the eighties and nineties. 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.000 It was fierce and it reached the global stage. I think, 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.480 you know, we might have made the New York Times once. 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.840 Um it was a really intense sort of conflation of 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.840 my own identity and my home's identity, because at that 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.920 time it was it was fiercely homophobic and proudly so, 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.240 and it was like, this is who we are, and 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.440 I was learning that that's who I was. And so 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:05.280 I was a debatable citizen in the most sort of 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:09.680 really vulnerable time of my life. And there's all sorts 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.360 of terrible things to talk about in that story, but 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.439 you could cut also to the positive headline that Tasmania 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:21.160 has some of the strongest human rights protections in Australian. 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.520 You know, I can't claim the world. It's a big place, 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.960 but I think we learned as a as a community 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:30.800 that we didn't like being divided like that, we didn't 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:36.240 like being painted as an accepting and you know this 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.120 sturely pockets still there, but as a as a whole, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:43.280 I feel safe going back home where I never did before. Um. 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.320 So it's a long and dark history, but there is 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.960 that at the end of it. Well, I really like 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.400 the way you talk about it evolving because I know 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.320 that you know in the net when you talk about 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.480 your childhood and and how you first saw what you 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:02.200 call your people when you watch the Sydney Gay and 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.439 Lesbian Mardi Gras, and you saw people having a great 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:09.000 time and partying. And you know, you have a great 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.800 line where you say, well where do the quiet gays? 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:16.200 God always, I've never been to mad I just looks 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.000 a bit much. I'm very proud, but well, I just 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.760 have this image of you as as a young girl, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:28.079 young woman in Tasmania and like so many other lgbt 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:32.280 Q kids, all of a sudden, not feeling alone, even 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.439 though it was just through a TV screen. It's one 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.680 of those It's a student of history. This this golds 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.040 me the most is each generation we have to prove 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.440 that we exist. And I am a student of history. 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.760 I know we've always existed. You just have to not 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.680 have the biases that blind you to that existence. And 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.840 right now it's happening to trans kids and gender quick kids, 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.440 and honestly that's where I am on the spectrum. I 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:00.559 have gender queer, but we didn't have the language when 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:04.320 I was growing up. So the bonus of not having languages, 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:06.120 you don't have the vitriol on the other side of 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.880 the language, and that's what we're going through now. I 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:14.559 feel a real sense of urgency about what I can 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:20.200 see happening now. I feel very also helpless because what's 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.840 happening to trans kids, particularly in the US, but also 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.800 in Australia, in the UK IS and elsewhere. My sure, 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:31.120 but it's now a hot topic. It's being it's a 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.680 plaything for people who want to motivate hatred in order 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.560 to generate votes and clicks. It's really toxic, and it's 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:42.920 become you know, they're dividing families that you know, even 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:47.680 running laws that parents and teachers who help trans kids 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.199 performing some kind of child abuse. And it's just like, 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.480 we can't solve the riddle of gender, but we can 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:57.880 be decent to our children. You know, doing untold damage 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:02.520 to trans kids and also kids who aren't you know, 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.360 kids who are burgeoning transphobs. We are doing damage to 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.200 them because you know, we're teaching kids that it's okay 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.200 to exclude. And really, if we're going to get through 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:20.960 climate change, we need everyone. We're taking a quick break. 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:30.679 Stay with us now. I want to tell you a 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.320 story about a terrible conversation I had at the dog park. 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.719 One this bloke just walks up to me. I mean, 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.200 he had a dog. He wasn't just being creepy. Had context, 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:41.600 and I don't want to tell you this, it's not 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:43.560 pertinent to the story, but I want you to know 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:48.400 his dog had shoes on, and his dog did not 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.240 want to have shoes on because he's doing that like 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.000 and it was a whippet situation. And they're shaking at 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:56.840 the best of times. So we don't know why are 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:58.520 they cold? Are they nervous? We don't know. But it 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.160 was like just it was lot. Now it's not important 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.120 to the story, but it was a lot in my periphery. 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.439 So I just want you to know added stress. Now, 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:11.320 this was my friend's icebreaker. We've never met. This was 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:15.360 his icebreaker. He said, did you know it takes less 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:21.480 muscles to smile than brown. Now, the men in the 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.880 audience are sitting there going, oh, you've experienced an isolated incident. 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.200 When the women are sitting there going oh, the Fox 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:35.840 safe and non binary folks are like, is that a 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:40.680 hard day for you? Isn't That's a clip from your 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:45.880 Netflix special, Douglas. The other thing that you have talked 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:49.160 about as you were diagnosed with autism a few years ago, 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.160 and you actually have said that the day you were 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:59.359 diagnosed was a very good day. How would you explain that? Uh, 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.640 you know, the process of going from hunch to diagnosis 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:07.240 was quite exhilarating because as I researched it, parts of 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.880 myself just fell into place and it's like, oh, oh, 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:15.559 I make sense suddenly. Um. In fact, coming to terms 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:21.360 with my atypical thinking was even more profound than coming 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:25.560 to terms with my sexuality, because ultimately your sexuality is 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.480 it's not a large part of your day to day, 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.560 whereas the way you think is pretty much always there. 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.840 So learning that I was never going to get to 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.440 the starting line of normal I say that in air quotes, 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.560 sort of gave me a bit of a breather, Like 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.040 I've been treading water my entire life, just trying to 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:51.880 work out what was important and ignoring what was actually 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.640 important to me, which put a lot of stress on 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.200 my central nervous system. But the flip side of that was, 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:02.080 after that relief came a lot of greed because it 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:06.640 was almost so simple a click, this understanding that oh 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.520 you think differently, and I can just deal with that. 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.200 But I just also feel like, in this conversation about 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.920 autism and neuro divergence. There's still a lot of shame 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.040 around it because it's not always an easy existence. So 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.400 are you choking to death? I'm not choking to death. 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:28.240 I'm trying not to cough through this incredible description. Yeah 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:30.440 you did? You did? Yeah? Look, I mean the body 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:36.080 knows the score. You did? You broken up? Sorry? Sorry? Um? 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.040 Where was I? Where was I? Was I talking about 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:42.320 anything interesting? Oh? Yes, grief? Because you know there's this 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.800 shame that is being projected onto the names and the 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.840 labels of a s D, and because you know at 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.320 the end is disorder like that is always the thing. 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.440 But you know, if you look at the more sort 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:58.440 of holistically, how can you prove that there is a 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.400 right way for our central nerves the system to operate 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.760 and what you know what sparks up and individual's central 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.480 nervous system. We don't have a grip on it. We're 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:11.840 still the sciences very active. So as individuals, we don't 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.040 get to solve that. All we get to do is 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.720 do the best we can. And we have enough information 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.200 now to know that not all kids are the same. 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.720 Alert Let's make sure everybody hears out and it's not 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:26.920 just the way we look like it's just on a 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:31.560 very fundamental level, information in and information out is different, 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:35.880 and for too long, particularly girls and any other not boys, 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:41.160 it's seen as character flaws, and that compounds the shame 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.960 and the stress of it, because it's like a boy 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.160 not talking, it's like, you know, he's a strong, silent 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.560 type having interesting thoughts, whereas a girl that becomes sulky, 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.520 then it's just a simple A seed is that and 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.920 that snowballs. But I think the beauty of a lot 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:01.640 of people on the spectrum, there's lot of trauma that 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.000 we have to exist through because the world is not 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.439 built for us and the world doesn't really accommodate our 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:12.760 kind of thinking, which is is not direct. But I'm 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:19.440 surrounded by stories that prioritize neurotypical experiences of the world. 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:24.040 So I have a great understanding and appreciation for neurotypical experience, 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:28.240 and it is typical for a reason. But I think 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:34.200 it's time for neurotypical people to not pity or for fear, 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:38.560 but sort of try and learn the language. It's about humanizing. 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.679 We're very we're devastatingly simple. People Just talk to us 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.080 about what we're interested in, and you're ours forever, like 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.320 where were your puppy dogs? Well, you mentioned the word trauma, 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.080 and you've gone through a lot in your life, and 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.719 now you've got a new book coming out, Ten Steps 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.679 to Nanat, a new one. It's my only one, it's 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:01.720 your own, you one, your first. Also, I should just 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:06.439 clean something up. Sorry to dropped, but um, I to 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.159 regret that every time I say it. But anyway, I 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.360 can't speak for everyone on spectrum, and it's a spectrum 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:15.520 for a reason, So just totally get that. And and 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:19.119 I do think it's important to emphasize that there is 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.480 diversity on the spectrum, just like there is in every 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:26.040 other aspect of human life and experience. But you know, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.359 we now know so much more about what trauma does 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.280 to the body. You know literally how it affects you 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:37.440 know how people feel and think and almost physically your 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:42.399 body reacts. So how have you figured out a way 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:47.760 to process trauma? I asked, And really, you know you 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.800 don't expect an answer. Well, I do expect some kind 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:55.760 of an answer because I do think that finally people 0:18:55.800 --> 0:19:00.760 are recognizing what trauma does to a person. The way 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.800 out of trauma is is a complicated path, and it's 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.520 not ever, the way into trauma is is very quick, 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.280 it could be a momentum. The way out of trauma 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.240 is rarely as simple, and I think, I think the 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.960 emphasis on the individual to get themselves out of trauma 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:27.440 is criminal because you can't achieve a sense of safety 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:32.000 without the community within which you live. You know, understanding 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.240 that you felt unsafe and have an invested interest in 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:40.240 your feeling safe. So just understanding that you can appreciate 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:44.960 why there are great numbers of communities who are existing 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:50.040 in cyclical trauma, because time and time again, their governments 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:54.800 let them know that they're not safe. I have emerged 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.240 on the other side of my trauma. I took a 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.480 punt with my show a Nette. It was a working 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.560 theory that if I shared it honestly and in a 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.480 controlled environment, and I felt like I could control the 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:12.280 stand up comedy arena, you know, three people at a 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.120 time in the same room, I was going to force 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:20.639 them to sit in my all my sort of distress, 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:28.000 in all its all its charm, that being you know anger, fear, 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.080 and you know vulnerability, if you want to use that 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:36.400 old chestnut, and I didn't think it would pay off. 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:39.080 I thought by doing that, I would reduce my audience, 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.600 but reduce it to a number that felt safer to me. 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:46.640 But what actually happened was surprising, as my audience got 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:48.880 bigger and bigger and something and what I was saying 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.720 that was cathartic people having conversations after my show, you know, 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.120 families would go in and then you know, I got 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.879 so many notes from people saying we had conversation the 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.040 we need to have. You know, that made me feel 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:04.320 part of a community, and that made me feel safer, 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:06.800 not the fact that I got this thing off my chest. 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:10.160 It was not a void. You know, we all knew 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.320 that these things happened to people all the time, but 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:15.919 we just don't talk about it because we get stuck 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:21.239 on the trauma loop and what happens after is so 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:23.920 much more important. We need to show that people can 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:27.480 recover from trauma. We need to show that it's a battle. 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.640 We need help, But it's not a drain worth circling. 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:34.840 Terrible things happen to people all the time, and it's 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:38.000 not resilience pawn because it's a community effort. I will 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:41.560 not stand as a person I've nailed this. I don't 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:43.600 know what it is about what I did that helped 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:46.240 me through this. They did so many different things, but 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.840 one of the main things is I felt connected. You know. 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:55.119 That really corresponds with everything that I know or that 0:21:55.200 --> 0:22:00.880 I've heard about how people can work through their trauma 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:05.359 because they find a safe space and they find a community. 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:11.080 And you mentioned how families would have conversations after seeing 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:16.199 you in your stand up routine talking about, you know, 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:22.040 the disappointments and the attacks and the physical abuse and 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:26.440 everything that you experienced. What about your own family and 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.760 particularly your mom, because I know you've talked about some 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:34.240 of the you know, quite hurtful things that she would 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:36.320 say to you when you were younger and when you 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:41.479 did come out. How has that relationship evolved. Well, I 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:45.000 think it's evolved because I've matured and I can see. 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:49.520 My mother was in an impossible position. She was trying 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:56.080 to raise children in a intolerant place, and the active 0:22:56.119 --> 0:23:01.159 conversation happening around her was one of intolerance. What do 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:04.879 you do like? You know? So she did the best 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:08.600 she could. Sometimes it came out sideways and was painful, 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:14.760 but ultimately she walked of an almost impossible line. But 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:18.280 she did it, and she's ashamed of it. She's not 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:22.440 proud of it, and I I sometimes go, now, you're right, 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:25.600 be fine, But it's not easy for her for me 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:27.679 to be out in the world going this is our story. 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:30.800 But there's so much of what she did do that 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:33.679 you don't you're not taught to look for in the 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:36.520 way that we tell stories. We're always looking for the 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:38.919 good guy, the bad guy. You know, in order for 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:41.679 me to come out and be full of pride, there 0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:44.920 has to be a bad guy in my story. And 0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:48.040 it's just life is so much messier than that. It 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:51.399 so is what I'm hearing you say, and what I 0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:56.640 you know you're making me feel is how you came 0:23:56.680 --> 0:24:02.960 to understand her and gave her the grace for her 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:07.960 to feel. You know, that you were opening a door 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:11.080 that she could then walk through despite how she felt 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:14.359 ashamed or whatever it happened in the past. Well, we 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:15.920 did that to each other for a while. We just 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:18.600 kept knocked down through the right doors, and it was 0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:21.440 a long process. And it didn't help that I didn't 0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:24.840 understand that I was autistic. And so you've got someone 0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:27.719 who's near atypical trying to communicate with someone who's not. 0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:31.200 So there's that added part of it. But she showed 0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:34.600 me grace for you know, not first I had a 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:38.120 conversation with her, well, the gay marriage debate in Australia 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:42.320 was was flinging itself around in the mid turns, and 0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:46.040 you know, she said something that's still to this day 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:47.560 staggers me. And I said it in and that I 0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:50.040 say it in my memoi. Say it again, she said 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:53.320 to me, she said she regrets raising me as if 0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:57.480 I was straight. And I just think that that's an 0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:04.439