1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:27,479
Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome

2
00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,000
Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Hi, how are you.

3
00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,160
Speaker 1: I hope you're doing well. Hello to all all your

4
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,199
Speaker 1: loved winds, all your friends. Hello to the one and

5
00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:43,199
Speaker 1: only super producer Max Williams. This is an intro to

6
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,479
Speaker 1: something different because we did a live show for the

7
00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,280
Speaker 1: first time in years. It was so much fun. It

8
00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:51,879
Speaker 1: was kind of a live show. Does it count as

9
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,760
Speaker 1: a live show? Oh? Yeah, there are people. There were

10
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,680
Speaker 1: real life people there, and we were there in person. You,

11
00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,520
Speaker 1: myself and Eli and Diana from Ridiculous Romance, along with

12
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,120
Speaker 1: Lauren Vogelbaum, our dear friend and colleague and host of

13
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,600
Speaker 1: the amazing American Shadows on the Grim and Mild Network

14
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,440
Speaker 1: of brain Stuff of Savor, along with Annie Reese. And

15
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,399
Speaker 1: this is one of our favorite people in general. Who's

16
00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,080
Speaker 1: a fantastic job of moderating a panel we did about

17
00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 1: I believe you came up with his name? Man? What

18
00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,200
Speaker 1: was it? The the humorists and the heavy Yeah, the

19
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,039
Speaker 1: humor and the heavies. So, if you've heard our previous

20
00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,240
Speaker 1: episode or previous series where we were lucky enough to

21
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,479
Speaker 1: have our friends Diane and Eli on the show. Their show,

22
00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,119
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Romance is delightful, but just like our show, they

23
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,880
Speaker 1: run into some pretty heavy subjects. So we went Uh Noel,

24
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,360
Speaker 1: You and I and uh Diana and Eli and Lauren

25
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,840
Speaker 1: a couple of other folks went to podcast Movement in Nashville, Tennessee,

26
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,840
Speaker 1: where we spoke with a crowd about how to how

27
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:03,480
Speaker 1: to do right by these stories, these historical people, places

28
00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,160
Speaker 1: and events, and how not to diminish them when we

29
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,080
Speaker 1: are telling these stories, but how to do it in

30
00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,239
Speaker 1: an accurate and approachable way. So it isn't as a

31
00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:14,720
Speaker 1: what did you call? You had a great phrase in

32
00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,880
Speaker 1: this one. I think it was like a slog or

33
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,919
Speaker 1: a death march or something I can't remember. Man. That's

34
00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:24,680
Speaker 1: the thing though, right Ben, Like, I mean, some of

35
00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:29,120
Speaker 1: the topics that we discuss inevitably do have some kind

36
00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 1: of heavier elements that I wouldn't say we're necessarily a

37
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,000
Speaker 1: comedy podcast, you know, where we try to do our

38
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,720
Speaker 1: best to approach this stuff with with lightheartedness and kind

39
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,080
Speaker 1: of make it listenable and approachable. Um, we're definitely a

40
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 1: history podcast first, but we do have to be careful

41
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,680
Speaker 1: not to either not the little or just to kind

42
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: of like give a sense of dismissiveness by being too

43
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,160
Speaker 1: you know, lighthearted when things maybe you're a little heavy,

44
00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,800
Speaker 1: but also to balance those things. And I think Diane

45
00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,960
Speaker 1: and Eli, you know, approach ridiculous romance very similarly. And

46
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,400
Speaker 1: we had a really great, very open conversation with a

47
00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,920
Speaker 1: great Q and A at the end at Podcast Movement,

48
00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:07,920
Speaker 1: and we thought it would be great to share with

49
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,160
Speaker 1: you as is because we really enjoyed it and we

50
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,280
Speaker 1: hope that you do too, And next time Max will

51
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:20,519
Speaker 1: be there. Definitely. Yes, here it is folks, before you

52
00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,200
Speaker 1: get started, thank you so much for coming to this

53
00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,360
Speaker 1: panel today. Is everybody having a good time at Podcast Movement?

54
00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,959
Speaker 1: So far? Has everyone gotten lost? Like in the Jurassic

55
00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 1: Park atrium at least once? Cool, twice, three times lost?

56
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,240
Speaker 1: Is anybody here actually lost now? Because if so, I

57
00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 1: will give directions. That's great at that. Yeah. The panel

58
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,840
Speaker 1: that you're supposed to be in is called the Humor

59
00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,240
Speaker 1: and the Heavy explore serious subjects with finesse and empathy.

60
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 1: That sounds like I'm in the wrong place. You're our ringer,

61
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,960
Speaker 1: he needs you? Uh so, Hi, I'm Lauren vog Obama.

62
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,000
Speaker 1: I am your friendly neighborhood moderator. Um. The panel that

63
00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:07,520
Speaker 1: we are in is the thing that I just said.

64
00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,520
Speaker 1: Here with me on the stage today we have Ben Boland,

65
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,600
Speaker 1: Noel Brown, Eli Banks, and Diana Brown no relation that

66
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:21,679
Speaker 1: I know of, not for friends, um and uh. Yeah.

67
00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,520
Speaker 1: They are the hosts of Ridiculous History and Ridiculous Romance,

68
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,000
Speaker 1: which are two podcasts. So it's part of it. It's

69
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,280
Speaker 1: part of a whole ridiculous slate now at heart U

70
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,680
Speaker 1: extended extended well good um uh and and and these

71
00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,680
Speaker 1: two shows explore, try to take bits of history that

72
00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:48,320
Speaker 1: are honestly ridiculous, um and and explore the y and

73
00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,800
Speaker 1: how of of of of what went down um. And

74
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 1: frequently it's very funny and frequently it's incredibly tragic um

75
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,080
Speaker 1: often at the same time. UM. And So what they

76
00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,840
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about today, UM is just just their

77
00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,000
Speaker 1: their insight into how they handle that carefully and with

78
00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:12,200
Speaker 1: human empathy, but also keeping it keeping it light and funny, entertaining. UM.

79
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:17,200
Speaker 1: So uh. I have some questions. Okay, all right, we

80
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,200
Speaker 1: go way into it. So y'all do often take a

81
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,280
Speaker 1: humorous approach, but um, but you have to acknowledge those

82
00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,159
Speaker 1: serious uncomfortable realities that are part of the stories that

83
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,640
Speaker 1: you're telling. Um, how how would you all describe the

84
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,680
Speaker 1: process for how you handle that on air? So I

85
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,200
Speaker 1: guess I would. I would kick us off by saying

86
00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 1: one of the first things to think about is the

87
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,359
Speaker 1: It's almost cliche, but in our opinion, when Nolan and

88
00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,000
Speaker 1: I first started Ridiculous History, we decided from day one

89
00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 1: that the most important part of any show we ever do,

90
00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,480
Speaker 1: episode or podcast entire is going to be the audience.

91
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:05,279
Speaker 1: And so, you know, we dumb puns are there a plenty,

92
00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, and and bits and riffing, but ultimately we

93
00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,280
Speaker 1: want to serve the story and the audience by telling

94
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:18,479
Speaker 1: the truth, even when it might feel uncomfortable. Uh and

95
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,719
Speaker 1: and a lot of Honestly, when you think about it,

96
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 1: a lot of comedy exists in this sort of liminal

97
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:29,080
Speaker 1: space between what makes us laugh and what makes us uncomfortable.

98
00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,719
Speaker 1: Laughter itself is often a reaction to things that people

99
00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 1: would rather not acknowledge. It's kind of funny. Actually. Is

100
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,720
Speaker 1: one thing you learned being a podcast there is you

101
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:44,200
Speaker 1: can't make everybody happy. Um. So oftentimes we will hedge

102
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,960
Speaker 1: a little bit or talk about how a practice of

103
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,640
Speaker 1: a certain era. Perhaps it's problematic and wouldn't fly today,

104
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 1: And we literally get kind of dumped on sometimes for

105
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,719
Speaker 1: like trying to do that too hard maybe, But I

106
00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,640
Speaker 1: think we do it just hard enough, and it's important

107
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,000
Speaker 1: to us to acknowledged the present and you know, the

108
00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,840
Speaker 1: norms and what's okay now and why this. I mean,

109
00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,360
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of a good example, even like

110
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,040
Speaker 1: in the history of underwear for example, like how it's

111
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,840
Speaker 1: so based on this like weird patriarchal kind of idea

112
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,440
Speaker 1: of beauty and like fashion and it was very like

113
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,320
Speaker 1: the opposite of empowering for women. Um, and then it

114
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,200
Speaker 1: kind of you know, progressed from there and became like

115
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,440
Speaker 1: you know, Calvin Klein underwear models and all that. Oh

116
00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:32,960
Speaker 1: and reading historically accurate quotations because people were, you know,

117
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,840
Speaker 1: way less diplomatic at times. How about y'all. I know

118
00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 1: it's something. One thing that's inituting different between our shows

119
00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 1: is we set a cut off historically very very arbitrary. Well,

120
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,880
Speaker 1: it wasn't entirely arbitrary. It was based around apartheide. We

121
00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,360
Speaker 1: had an episode about like a really plucky guerrilla in

122
00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,320
Speaker 1: the in the Johannesburg Zoo that like chased down a criminal. Um,

123
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,280
Speaker 1: and that was the focus of the story. But this

124
00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,840
Speaker 1: is a great example too. It was all surrounded by apartheid,

125
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,120
Speaker 1: which is obviously a historical event that is super tragic

126
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,200
Speaker 1: its own form of genocide. You could argue in some ways,

127
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,480
Speaker 1: but like we decide, Okay, this is a recent enough

128
00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 1: historical event and we really can't go much further back

129
00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,080
Speaker 1: than this. So we sat there cut off in mid nineties.

130
00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,440
Speaker 1: But y'all, you don't really have that cut off. I

131
00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 1: think it's great because history is obviously being written every day.

132
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,120
Speaker 1: But um, with some of the more modern stuff that

133
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,920
Speaker 1: you guys do, how do you approach it, you know,

134
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,880
Speaker 1: in terms of keeping it light while talking about like

135
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,720
Speaker 1: heroin addicts that are murdering each other, like sitting Nancy

136
00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,440
Speaker 1: for example. It's true, um, And and that's sort of

137
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,400
Speaker 1: you know, we've been leaning more historical because it's nice

138
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,480
Speaker 1: to have at least the full story of these people's lives.

139
00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,199
Speaker 1: When we're talking about a romance, you know, we want

140
00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,480
Speaker 1: to see the context of where they met and kind

141
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,480
Speaker 1: of the whole story of how it ended. Um. But

142
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,080
Speaker 1: we do get into some more modern stories while trying

143
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,960
Speaker 1: to dodge tabloid e stuff. You know, Um, we've done

144
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,960
Speaker 1: a couple of celebrities. Go ahead, Oh, I was just

145
00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,520
Speaker 1: gonna say we were really steering clear of like a

146
00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:03,679
Speaker 1: Hollywood insider e new you know, like tabloid e exploitative

147
00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,960
Speaker 1: kind of feeling of if it's not got something, if

148
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,920
Speaker 1: it's just like look at these two weird like it's

149
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,520
Speaker 1: kind of it feels bad, you know what I mean.

150
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,800
Speaker 1: There's got to be a richness to it, Like, um,

151
00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,280
Speaker 1: you know, we're not just going to peer inside people's

152
00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,640
Speaker 1: current lives, you know, and pick them apart and and

153
00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,520
Speaker 1: tell that story. We won't. We want some sort of

154
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,040
Speaker 1: richness out of it. Like when we, for example, did

155
00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,120
Speaker 1: the Robert Downey Jr. And his wife's story, that was

156
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,600
Speaker 1: what we were really talking about is addiction and uh

157
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,080
Speaker 1: and and how difficult that is. And we kind of

158
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,560
Speaker 1: used that fairly modern, sort of tabloidy kind of story

159
00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 1: to examine something I think a little deeper than that, hopefully. Yeah.

160
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,360
Speaker 1: I think you guys do do a great job, but yeah,

161
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 1: they're better than us at um uh Eli and Diana

162
00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:57,360
Speaker 1: there you're you're talking about these relationships from the past. Um,

163
00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,040
Speaker 1: are there any examples that you have for us of

164
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,040
Speaker 1: of ones that are clearly misunderstood by people in these

165
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:10,679
Speaker 1: are modern times. Well, I'll start with UM one. I

166
00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,480
Speaker 1: think it's really interesting. We just did recently. That's uh,

167
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,439
Speaker 1: this story has really opened up only in the last

168
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,280
Speaker 1: couple of years, and that was Winston and Clementine Churchill.

169
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,920
Speaker 1: And um, that was full of challenges because Winston Churchill

170
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 1: is a super complicated character. He did a lot of

171
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,400
Speaker 1: really great things and a lot of really horrible things,

172
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,559
Speaker 1: and um, but only in recent years of biography came

173
00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 1: out in or this author you know, went through all

174
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,640
Speaker 1: their personal letters and just found out that she was

175
00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:46,160
Speaker 1: hugely instrumental in his rise to success and ultimately defeating

176
00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:50,360
Speaker 1: the Nazis, which was great. And you know that a

177
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,840
Speaker 1: guy took credit for something a woman actually did. Yeah,

178
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,959
Speaker 1: I know, you know happen over and over again. It

179
00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:01,400
Speaker 1: never happens, but this time it happens weird. So um.

180
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,200
Speaker 1: So that was one where you know, the the idea

181
00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,840
Speaker 1: of Clementine Churchill for so long was that she was

182
00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,240
Speaker 1: very quiet and kind of just like stood by her

183
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,920
Speaker 1: man and I've never heard of her. I'm not joking.

184
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't see the movie, but I've not

185
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,920
Speaker 1: heard of Clementine Church. Yeah, I knew the exact moment. Yeah,

186
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,520
Speaker 1: I'm ashamed to do very little before we started researching

187
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,400
Speaker 1: and um and kind of learning that romance was something

188
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 1: I don't think people are only beginning to understand it.

189
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,640
Speaker 1: So that was something that you know, we were happy

190
00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,920
Speaker 1: to bring out to people. But then Arita, yeah, definitely

191
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,439
Speaker 1: we are. Like our second episode was about woman who

192
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,160
Speaker 1: married the Berlin Wall, and so we ended up like

193
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:47,000
Speaker 1: going married married Berlin Wall and so just throwing that

194
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,040
Speaker 1: out there. Um, we ended up getting really into objective sexuality,

195
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 1: and we started talking about animalism and in all kinds

196
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,079
Speaker 1: of like just it went into a lot of different

197
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,280
Speaker 1: kind of rabbit holes. I as you could say, um,

198
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,120
Speaker 1: but it was I think was something was very misunderstood

199
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 1: about them because they they as you as you got

200
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,800
Speaker 1: more and more into how they feel about it and

201
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,240
Speaker 1: how they expressed it and how how it's happening for

202
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,880
Speaker 1: them and in real time, and and it was really

203
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,880
Speaker 1: kind of profound and it was powerful, and I was like,

204
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,320
Speaker 1: I feel this romance happening, even though I can't enter it,

205
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,760
Speaker 1: I would I can't enter into that at all myself.

206
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,000
Speaker 1: But I was like, I like, I'm I have a

207
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,760
Speaker 1: little tear in my eye. I would watch this Pixar movie.

208
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,160
Speaker 1: I would I mean, you know, like and I would

209
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,080
Speaker 1: play the wall. Who would be the voice of the world?

210
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,400
Speaker 1: Can we go Tom Wait Christoph Waltz? Perhaps Christoph he

211
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:46,640
Speaker 1: used to go to German her song I Am Lonely

212
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,760
Speaker 1: Please Love Me. Yes. I would watch the movie. Well.

213
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:52,840
Speaker 1: I was really glad we did that episode first or early,

214
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,120
Speaker 1: because I think we approached it because it sounded funny,

215
00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,199
Speaker 1: and that that as we dug into it, I think

216
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,199
Speaker 1: we really like just found a lot of empathy for

217
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,439
Speaker 1: these people and understanding and it really sort of set

218
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,640
Speaker 1: I think us in a direction on the show. It

219
00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:08,640
Speaker 1: was like, we need to come at every subject with

220
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 1: a hugely open mind. Um, and sometimes you know your

221
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,600
Speaker 1: mind is open and you learned something incredible and you

222
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,600
Speaker 1: you have a whole new appreciation, and sometimes you get

223
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,679
Speaker 1: like Sit and Nancy. I didn't know anything about them.

224
00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,400
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm really open to learn about learning

225
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,400
Speaker 1: one of these people. And I was injured. That was

226
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,480
Speaker 1: a very like, very dark story that was hard to

227
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,560
Speaker 1: but I think I think that's how you you do

228
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,640
Speaker 1: the line of humor and heavy is sort of remembering

229
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,760
Speaker 1: that history. It's very human. Everyone you're you're looking at

230
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:40,880
Speaker 1: is human. And even if there are a thousand years ago,

231
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,880
Speaker 1: four thousand years ago, ten years ago, we all have

232
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,880
Speaker 1: things that are I mean instincts that are just real.

233
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 1: And if you can tap into that, you can you

234
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,280
Speaker 1: can take anything with respect, and you can tell that

235
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,320
Speaker 1: story with respect and still have a lot of fun

236
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,000
Speaker 1: with it without like punching down. I got it til

237
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:05,200
Speaker 1: this Winton as the wall like, of course, where are planning? Yes,

238
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,280
Speaker 1: she might be one of us right now? No, no, no no,

239
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,520
Speaker 1: she's amazing. Yes, this is all of us? Are Tilda Wins?

240
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,880
Speaker 1: Speaking of those human moments that are so important, how

241
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 1: do you how do you find those and all of

242
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,360
Speaker 1: the stories that you pursue. I think that's a that's

243
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,680
Speaker 1: a question that applies to any podcast. I'd like to

244
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,800
Speaker 1: pull us in the audience because we are recording this live.

245
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 1: This will be on our show later, so you are

246
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 1: already part of the show now, uh. And I think

247
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,280
Speaker 1: we we have a lot of people at the movement

248
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,360
Speaker 1: today who are themselves podcasters, right, and you run into

249
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,520
Speaker 1: those moments where you say, why why am I telling

250
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,080
Speaker 1: this story? How do I convey this story differently? You know,

251
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,120
Speaker 1: what what is the difference between someone just reading a

252
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,080
Speaker 1: timeline that says so and so was born in eighteen

253
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,600
Speaker 1: nineteen and then in eighteen thirty four, you know, they

254
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:19,320
Speaker 1: invented um, they invented round what corn? They invented rounds

255
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,200
Speaker 1: corn or something like that. And then you go, you

256
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,280
Speaker 1: go through a timeline, you kind of lose the soul

257
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:29,280
Speaker 1: of it. Uh, Like Diana said, nobody is no life

258
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,640
Speaker 1: is one big game of telephone and long form improv

259
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,520
Speaker 1: No one's really sure how it's gonna end. You know,

260
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,760
Speaker 1: you just try to sort of yes and your way

261
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,400
Speaker 1: through it. And uh, what you find is that if

262
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,160
Speaker 1: you really look at these people, not as epic you know,

263
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,160
Speaker 1: entreges in a history textbook, what you find is that

264
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,240
Speaker 1: they too are rarely convinced that they are doing the

265
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,840
Speaker 1: right thing. They have quarrels. You know, Well, it's interesting

266
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,120
Speaker 1: to all depends on the source, right, Like you know,

267
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,480
Speaker 1: as you said, history is written by the the winners

268
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,560
Speaker 1: and all of that, So it certainly can have a

269
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,240
Speaker 1: spin to it and a slant to it. And I

270
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,640
Speaker 1: think The key too is reading from lots of different sources,

271
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 1: lots of different perspectives, and also having our own perspective.

272
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 1: Because there was a really great talk earlier with Charlemagne

273
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,920
Speaker 1: and uh, Jill Scott and our boss Connall and and

274
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,800
Speaker 1: Dolly of course, and I think what something Charlottage said

275
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,240
Speaker 1: that was totally correct is that podcasts are all about personality.

276
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,760
Speaker 1: I think that's sort of like a kind of statement,

277
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,520
Speaker 1: but it's about perspective, you know. It's like we anybody

278
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 1: can tell the same story, but it's not gonna be

279
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 1: the same story. It's all about who's telling it and

280
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,240
Speaker 1: how it's being told. And not to say that facts

281
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 1: are going to change. What it's about the empathy and

282
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,200
Speaker 1: the humanness that you bring to it as an individual

283
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,600
Speaker 1: human person with a perspective, and that's how you connect,

284
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, with your audience, I think, which is something

285
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,520
Speaker 1: I think Eli and Diana do really well. Agreed, well,

286
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,720
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you are totally humans. Honestly, we have

287
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,720
Speaker 1: a little easier than you guys, because our subject matter

288
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 1: is literally romance, So there is a very human element

289
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,720
Speaker 1: like built into every episode, even even when it's not

290
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,359
Speaker 1: a romance like the John lorraina Bobbitt story. You know

291
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,160
Speaker 1: that there's there's still a human romance of a kind.

292
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,720
Speaker 1: It is, right and in the beginning and they when

293
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,680
Speaker 1: they met, there was a very brief, beautiful moment where

294
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,200
Speaker 1: they were just totally enamored with each other and you know,

295
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,040
Speaker 1: went downhill from there, but very brief downhill into a

296
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:30,639
Speaker 1: bush behind. Yeah, that was great. This is the kind

297
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 1: of stuff you can expect on episodes of ridiculous history

298
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,639
Speaker 1: and ridiculous Romance. But no, I think again, it's just

299
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,440
Speaker 1: it's kind of what you bring to the table. And

300
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,120
Speaker 1: I agree that that you guys do a really really

301
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 1: great job of kind of like humanizing and just being

302
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,879
Speaker 1: empathetic and just like approaching things with kindness, you know,

303
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,200
Speaker 1: and not punching down. There's so many podcasts that are

304
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,359
Speaker 1: very inherently negative or mean spirited, and I like some

305
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 1: of those a lot, but that's not what we do.

306
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,199
Speaker 1: We try to bring sort of a kindness and a

307
00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:00,720
Speaker 1: thoughtfulness but also lightheartedness to some heavy topics. Yeah. Um,

308
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 1: have there been any figures who who you've started looking

309
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:12,480
Speaker 1: into when you start realizing that they've just been completely misportrayed?

310
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:16,879
Speaker 1: D that's largely accurate. Um. Yeah, what a great question,

311
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 1: because there are the distressing slash inspiring answer. You can

312
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 1: decide whether this glass for you is half full or

313
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,840
Speaker 1: half empty. To be super cliche about it, is that a,

314
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:36,520
Speaker 1: if not a majority, a surprising and disturbing, disturbingly sizeable

315
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 1: proportion of people of figures throughout history are in some

316
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:46,439
Speaker 1: way misportrayed and their misportrayed often because um, the way

317
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,280
Speaker 1: that they are taught to students. You know, if you're

318
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,880
Speaker 1: if you're not in grad school for James Joyce, you're

319
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 1: probably not going to hear all the weird stuff James

320
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 1: Joyce did. I mean, I'm gonna keep it kind of

321
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,720
Speaker 1: family friendly. But James Joyce was like not a beloved

322
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 1: figure in his you know, his version of cheers, his

323
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,160
Speaker 1: his bars that he would hit up when he wasn't

324
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,679
Speaker 1: agonizing over Finnigan's wake or something, because he would do

325
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 1: stuff where he had This is true. He had a

326
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 1: tiny pair of women's Uh oh, we did the underwear episode.

327
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,000
Speaker 1: We should have mentioned this, I remember that story. It

328
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,159
Speaker 1: didn't make it in but um, he had a tiny

329
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 1: pair of women's underwear that he would fit around his

330
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: pointer in his middle finger finger skateboard. Yeah, like fingers exactly.

331
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,160
Speaker 1: And and so he was like people were when they

332
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 1: saw him, they were instantly tired. Yeah, he would like

333
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 1: walk up and he wouldn't know them, and he would

334
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,040
Speaker 1: be like, oh do do do do? Do Do do do?

335
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 1: And people don't want to really know that about the

336
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 1: guy who changed Western literature. I think it makes very

337
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,120
Speaker 1: happy to know that about the guy who changed Western literature.

338
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,479
Speaker 1: But that's that's again, that's a human moment right now,

339
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 1: especially with some work as heavy and puzzled over as

340
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 1: like some of his stuff. As you know, there's like

341
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 1: literal puzzle box of a of a novel. I was

342
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 1: a weird dude. Yeah, I love that. I'd say our

343
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:20,639
Speaker 1: biggest in that category is probably the Empress all Gablos. Yeah. Yeah,

344
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 1: she was transgender Empress of Rome. And we know that

345
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 1: because the documents of the time about her said she said,

346
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,920
Speaker 1: call me the Empress, call me his wife. That is

347
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:33,680
Speaker 1: what I want to be referred to as. And then

348
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 1: for eighteen hundred years, most of the documents said he

349
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: when they were talking about her, and um, so that

350
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,160
Speaker 1: you know, we of course that's a lot more modern

351
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,120
Speaker 1: discourse that we're able to kind of learn and examine that.

352
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,880
Speaker 1: But um, but I think it's something that is starting

353
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 1: to change and and has been misrepresented through history. But

354
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,679
Speaker 1: we're you know, we can obviously look at it a

355
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 1: different way now, but especially with things like Ancient Rome,

356
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 1: where again the history is written by the winners, like

357
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 1: you have perspectives where it could be like very belittling

358
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 1: to someone like that, and you'll see certain historians that

359
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: clearly have a slant and had an issue with this person. Yes,

360
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: that was something that was something that really came clear

361
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 1: researching that episode, because it was like, Okay, well at

362
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 1: the time they wrote this, but it could have been

363
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 1: a job they were trying to make them look bad

364
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 1: or something, or they erased from history people that they

365
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 1: were just like, actually, that your punishment. We're just going

366
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: to just scratch you out the record for a minute,

367
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: like for four to tend to however many years, and

368
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: then you have to go back and kind of be like, okay,

369
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: So this could be hearsay, it could be gossip. It

370
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: could be a story somebody told somebody else because they

371
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: wanted to look cool, you know, like, you know, you're

372
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 1: not sure, and it's that's kind of interesting too to

373
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: see that pettiness if you know history, Yeah, we've never

374
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 1: stopped the ship. And because it's you know, at least

375
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: according to the records we do have, because she was

376
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 1: a terrible person, you know, like murdered a lot of people.

377
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 1: Um So yeah, it's hard to walk that one back,

378
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,199
Speaker 1: you know, but but I think you know, one thing

379
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 1: we could take away from that question is something that

380
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 1: applies to us today, which is, um often, the way

381
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 1: history is taught trends toward telling us one thing about

382
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: a person, and it may be the most important thing

383
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: they've ever done, and it may have fundamentally, you know,

384
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 1: changed our experience living today. But that wasn't the only

385
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 1: thing they did. Like the current Dali Lama true story,

386
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: super into watches. He like collects watches. He's he's all

387
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 1: about it, and he doesn't, I guess really talk about

388
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: it like watches. I think he's like I do, and

389
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 1: it would be super cool. But but everybody like you're

390
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: you're here, you're here today and thank you for being here.

391
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: And you you right now are the version of you

392
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: that has gone to meet up about podcasts. But you're

393
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: also someone's kid. You may have children of your own,

394
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: You probably have like a high school friend that thinks

395
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: of you as a totally different version of you, and

396
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: people throughout history have that too. Maybe not the high

397
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: school things, but you know, you get so much of history,

398
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 1: especially like armschair, like pop history is is inherently reductive.

399
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: It kind of has to be. It's really impossible or

400
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 1: you know, unless you're Malcolm Gladwell or whoever that guy's

401
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: that does the five hour History podcast, Carlin Carlin. Yeah,

402
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 1: I can't damn that, I can't do it. I'm sure

403
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: it's great. I'm sure it's for somebody, but it's not

404
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 1: for me, and I'm okay with that. But um, I

405
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: think you can handle the short form versions still with

406
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: respect and not being so reductive that you're you know,

407
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 1: creating a super one dimensional picture of of of one

408
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: of these figures. And this is this is something I

409
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: want to shout out with that that I love that

410
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 1: you all do and ridiculous romance. You you do what

411
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 1: I think good storytellers should do, which is you embrace

412
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: those tangents. You know, like when people people used to

413
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: talk about Nikola Tesla right, and they would say, uh,

414
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: you know, they would have like the five to six

415
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: talking points and then somebody did the research and said, oh,

416
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: actually he got real deep with this pigeon toward the

417
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: end of his life and it was like weirdly wholesome.

418
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: And then that became one of those points. And I also,

419
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: you know, Lauren Vogel Bomb moderating today has a show

420
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: that she does, one of her many shows called Savor,

421
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: which is ostensibly about food. Uh and catch me if

422
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 1: I missed speaking here, but it's never okay, well, it's

423
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: never just about food. I feel like because it goes

424
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: into culture, it goes into folk glory, goes into the

425
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: sociology of the thing, and if you really want to

426
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: understand a person and event a cons sept than, like

427
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: Noel said, you need to look at all the differing,

428
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: disagreeing sources, and then you need to look at all

429
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: the things around it because context is crucial to the plot. Yeah, um,

430
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: thank you for the shout out. I want to go

431
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 1: back to this is partially what what what you guys

432
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: are talking about about sensitivity, but also partially what um

433
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: what y'all were talking about about wanting to avoid being exploitative? Exploitative?

434
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: What's just the word? Does anyone hear you? Great? Um,

435
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: I was an English manajor um uh about about trying

436
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: not to be that thing. Um, but still like, like

437
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 1: you guys do funny podcasts like funny as part of

438
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,239
Speaker 1: the sticks, So like, how do you how do you

439
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: kind of um have fun without making fun? I like

440
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: what Diana said punching down. That's I mean, that's a

441
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: huge ruling comedy in general, is that you know how

442
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: much power is in the equation. That's who you make

443
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: fun of is the one who has all the power

444
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: in this situation. And the people who don't, you don't

445
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: make fun of them. They got enough to deal with. So, um,

446
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: I think that's definitely a uh what's that word? You know? Yeah,

447
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: you found it? Well, no, well, I was just gonna

448
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: say it's you know, we like our show We're Married

449
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: White Cis had a renormative couple. Like, there's a lot

450
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: of down to punch and it's but it's also not

451
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: difficult to find completely different things to laugh about. Like

452
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: we talked about, um, the Lonely Hearts killers. Yeah, right,

453
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: these are two people who met in a catalog in

454
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 1: the fifties newspaper ads in the fifties and uh, and

455
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: then got together and murdered a bunch of people. And

456
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 1: there's not a lot funny about that. Um, I don't

457
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: know what we did. I shouldn't even brought up because

458
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: I can't remember what we did find funny about that.

459
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: That's the thing, though, You don't have to make it

460
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: into a joke or write into a bit it again,

461
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: like I was saying, it's all about your perspective and

462
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: the humans will let you approach something heavy. You're not

463
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: going to tell a doom and gloom I call it

464
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: misery porn story. You're gonna find something to just be

465
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: yourselves around it. It's really the key, you know. You

466
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: don't have to convert it into some kind of like

467
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: stand up routine. That's not what we do at all.

468
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: We make fun of ourselves exactly the circumstances they're in.

469
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 1: I mean, you know that era is was there was

470
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: so much ridiculousness happening, happening around the circumstances that led

471
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: to their relationship, that led to what they were doing

472
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: to other people in their lives who you know, allowed

473
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: them to behave like this, or it's just absurd and

474
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: you can kind of laugh at that, I think, or

475
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: the joke the joke is also can be what my

476
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: reaction to this or how I would how I would

477
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: have reacted, and how differently this person did, you know

478
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: what I mean. That's the joke becomes like if it

479
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: were me, I would have sold him up the you know,

480
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: it would have been a totally difference. And then you

481
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: have a good time and then let me get back

482
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: to the story, which is very tragic, and we're going

483
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: back to the story now. I think that's an important

484
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: way to connect with your audience too, is because they're

485
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: thinking that themselves, and then you're acting as a stand

486
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: in for them as well and kind of inserting yourself

487
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: into the narrative. And I think that's something that we've

488
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: learned and we get the most outreach about. Is like

489
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: I just like hanging out and like, you know, you

490
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,479
Speaker 1: guys ask the questions that occurred to me as they

491
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: occurred to me, And I think that's a real you know,

492
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: it's sort of intuitive, but it is something you learned

493
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: to kind of lean into over time. You know. Yeah,

494
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: that's so great, Yeah, what would you do in that situation?

495
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: That's why people, uh, that's why people watch horror films, right,

496
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: because there's something too to knowing your own perspective on

497
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: there and saying like, yeah, don't go in the cabin,

498
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: you know, and you're looking around at other people in

499
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: the theater and they're like, please stop talking. You're like,

500
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think that's it. I think that's a

501
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: huge point. Um that that I love. I love to

502
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: hear in podcast we're just in conversation because really you're

503
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: exercising empathy by assuming that perspective. And also just the

504
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: last thing is like we are trying to have you

505
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: walk away with having learned a thing a little bit

506
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: at least, you know, um, something that you can remember,

507
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: and whether you've learned from the experiences of others historically,

508
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: or it's just a little, you know, thing you can

509
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: bring up at parties and tell us weird story about,

510
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: you know, the married couple that went on a killing spree. Um,

511
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: that's a good, good party fodder. But sure, no, I'm

512
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: just saying like, that's a big part of it too.

513
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: As we want to make people are walking away having

514
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: learned something, having been entertained, and having felt some kind

515
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: of connection. I guess so as you're as you're talking

516
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: through some of these subjects that that do get into

517
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: deep weird places. Has there ever been a moment where

518
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: you felt like ethically or morally obligated to tell a

519
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: particular part of the story, or to tell a particular

520
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: part of it a particular way. Yes. Yeah. You can't

521
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: do a heartwarming story about a guerrilla in South Africa

522
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: in the ninety nineties and not talk about apartheime. That

523
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: was a big deal. You cannot not do. That was

524
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: sort of the wake up moment for us. We were like, oh,

525
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: we kind of have to figure out how to do

526
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: the thing that we're talking about today, because that was

527
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,239
Speaker 1: relatively early on in the show's life, and that's when

528
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: we realized we had to talk about the surrounding circumstances

529
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: of this ultimately heartwarming story. To make the heartwarming bit payoff,

530
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: you had to explain the like tragedy surrounding this whole thing.

531
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: This guerrilla, by the way, became this rallying figure kind

532
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: of around um which people just kind of like almost

533
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: this revolutionary figure, you know, during apartheid when all of

534
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: this horrible stuff was happening, or if you like, talk

535
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: about silly things that in retrospect seems silly from earlier

536
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: eras of humanity. You know, you talk about, um, what's

537
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: like one of those old songs like the origin of

538
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: the song Ring around the Rosy, you know what I mean?

539
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: That gets dark pretty quickly, and it's kind of irresponsible,

540
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: or at the very least, it's somewhat unethical or misleading

541
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: if if you are telling that story and you're not

542
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: also saying this might seem cute. See now, but here's

543
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: why it happened. Because people in the past, we're not unintelligent.

544
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: They were working with what they had, you know, and

545
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: you talk about like, um, there's a fantastic podcast called

546
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: Sawbones right which talks about what we would call medical quackery, right,

547
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: And what really that is is it's not a bunch

548
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: of people waking up and going, you know, I'm gonna

549
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: get I'm gonna get real weird with it today. I'm

550
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: just gonna like, yeah, I'm gonna like prescribe walking wider

551
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: shins around an included moon and then uh slapping people

552
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: with beats that came from somewhere. You know, Like people

553
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: were thinking through a process the best they could, and

554
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: that's the empathy we have to have. They did not

555
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: have the advantages that people living now have now for sure, well, uh,

556
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: one of I'm kind of thinking of two or three

557
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: actually this you know, you guys mentioned apartheid, and we

558
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: did the story about Seret sit Comma and Ruth Williams,

559
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: and that was an interracial couple that they uh married

560
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: in what was Beshawana Land at the time, later became Botswana.

561
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: Actually because of their marriage and um and apartheid, you know,

562
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: forced them, even though it was happening in another place

563
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: in South Africa, their influence on England and trade deals

564
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: and everything got England to force them at in x

565
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: into exile out of their own country. UM. So you know, similarly,

566
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: we had to kind of address apartheid in that episode.

567
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: That ended up being a really important contextual part of

568
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: their story. Um. Other times it's less contextual. But we

569
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: did the story of um Bert and Linda Poogash, who,

570
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: uh it's an insane story. It's our next episode to

571
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: come out. And this guy hired uh some some thugs

572
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: to attack this woman who didn't want to date him anymore,

573
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: and they threw acid in her face and blinded her.

574
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: And when he got out of prison twelve years later,

575
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: they got married and we're happily married for the rest

576
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: of their life. Um, and it's a whole story, but

577
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: within that, he was in Attica Prison during the Attica

578
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: Prison riots and it was only very tangentially involved. And

579
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: I didn't know a lot about the Attica Prison riots

580
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: when I was doing the research, and I learned about

581
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: them and said, it's insane that I haven't ever heard

582
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,239
Speaker 1: of this. Watched Afternoon as part of your research. I I, well,

583
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: we need to because we're gonna do that couple too.

584
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it since I was a kid. But

585
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: that was where it wasn't necessarily contextual to a story,

586
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: but I was like, I can't not take this opportunity

587
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: to make people aware of this thing. So it almost

588
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: turned into a ten part series just about that had

589
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: but but couldn't walk away without bringing it up. It

590
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: just seemed too important. Yeah. I think when we did

591
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: um the sixteenth century poets Shah Hussain and Madu Law,

592
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: that was definitely one where I was like, Okay, it

593
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: feels important to explain not only his his uh, the

594
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: sect of religion that he was practicing, not only that,

595
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: areas of feelings currently about gay marriage or gay relationships,

596
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: and also all the the political like stuff with Kashmir

597
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: and the line of control and all this stuff. Because

598
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 1: their relationship was a Hindu and a Muslim living in harmony.

599
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: So their relationship is still considered like a symbol of

600
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: universal harmony for them and and and true like spiritual connection.

601
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: And so some some of them are like, they were

602
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: just spiritual, they were not lovers. It was not gay,

603
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 1: you know whatever. And then a lot of people are like,

604
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: they know that. I think they were gay. They had

605
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: they had a loving gay relationship, you know whatever. So

606
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: it was really interesting to dive into that and feel

607
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: it really felt important to have all that contact around

608
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: their relationship because otherwise it wasn't as powerful. You didn't

609
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: see the impact. Why we chose it, you know, it

610
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: was like this, this has a lot, you know, it

611
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: was deep. So, yeah, we get in those rabbit holes.

612
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're good rabbit holes and sometimes they're not helpful. Yeah,

613
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,399
Speaker 1: you find out at the bottom. I think then you're

614
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: trapped in a rabbit hole. Yeah, how do you climb out?

615
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: I think that's going to be a question at some point. Um.

616
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: Has there has there ever been a story that as

617
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: you were getting into it, you were like Oh, this

618
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: is actually too much and I need to put it

619
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: down and walk away. Have you ever walked away from

620
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: a story? Uh? Well, yeah, there's a couple that come

621
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: to mind. One. Uh. We early on said oh, we

622
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: should do Marilyn Monroe story and we started doing some

623
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: research on that and we were like, you know what,

624
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: this is really difficult and sad story, Like there's not

625
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: we we can't have fun with this. We it doesn't

626
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: fit our show because it's totally inappropriate to be funny

627
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: about much of any of it. So that was one

628
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: where we've we may one day tackle it, but I

629
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: think so far we've decided it's not it's not right

630
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: for our show. Um. And then cha Hussain to mad Hulal.

631
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: We actually re recorded that episode. It was it was

632
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: like our third episodes kind of yeah, kind of learned

633
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: about start and kind of realized you were over. We

634
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: were being so reverent and you know, because this was

635
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: a totally different culture than ours and we really wanted

636
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: to be respectful and stuff, and I think we went

637
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: a little too far and it wasn't fun. It was

638
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: it was a little too quiet and and and calm,

639
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: and it didn't have a lot of energy timelineing. Like

640
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, yea very were born. They went to

641
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 1: a thing, they did a stuff and it was over,

642
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: you know, and it was like, yeah, this isn't it.

643
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 1: We so we like, let's just empty our minds and

644
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: just redo it without any like serious notes. We were

645
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: just like, let's just have more fun with it, have

646
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: a good time with it, tell this story, keep the aspect,

647
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 1: and and it turned out great. The second time definitely

648
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: was much. That's a really good I don't I don't

649
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: know if we've walked away from well there was that was.

650
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: We also have a full disclosure. We have an amazing

651
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: research is just in game who helps us, you know,

652
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 1: do kind of like bullet points and pull from different

653
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: sources and helps pick topics. You know, because Benn and

654
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: I also do another show called Stuff. They don't want

655
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: you to know that we five days a week. Um,

656
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: we do two episodes of Ridiculous History every week. So

657
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: it's nice to have a little bit of research help.

658
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: But we you know, dig in ourselves as well and

659
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: contribute and it's sort of a collaborative process. But I

660
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: think there were a few that he pulled that we

661
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: maybe never did because they there was one that was

662
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: about like some German folk tales around Christmas or something

663
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: like that. It was so like just grim and dark

664
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: and like kind of depressing and like ring around the

665
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: posy moment. It really was, And it was like, uh,

666
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: I think we were just like, you know, well, let's

667
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 1: just give that one a miss. We I guess you're right.

668
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: We did walk away from We did walk away from

669
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: Jack the Ripper. Uh, not to be too precious about it.

670
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: There's a lot of I mean, there's a lot of

671
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: excellent scholarship on this is probably one of the most

672
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 1: well documented serial murders in in in this era. That's

673
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: for a different show, though it is for a different show.

674
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: And then also you know, it's, um, we didn't want

675
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: to be precious about it, but it's kind of callous

676
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: to be like, hey, these people's lives were horrible, they

677
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: died in horrible ways. What do you do net waca

678
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 1: waca waka. That's terrible, you know, And so we we've

679
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: I think over time, uh me and this guy have

680
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 1: developed sort of a spidy sense for that kind of

681
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: for that kind of thing, because you know, you you

682
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: earn the trust the report of again, the most important

683
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: part of the show the person listening, and they're extending

684
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: what I would argue as the most valuable currency of

685
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: this time, which is time. Right, your personal time in

686
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 1: the world of ubiquitous, never ending information, make it worth

687
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: it and if there if you're if someone's trusting us

688
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: to UH, to properly convey a story and to travel

689
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: along with us for a few minutes, then we don't

690
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: want to trick them. That's like hopping into an uber

691
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: to go down the street and you're like, holy why

692
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: are we going to Montana now? And the double bactor.

693
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: That's really totally true what we said earlier about it's fine,

694
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: you can speak French all you want. Um. It is

695
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: about that connection with the audience and you can get

696
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: the story we didn't. We don't have like monopoly on

697
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: weird history stories. There's other podcasts have done the same

698
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: story as we've done. We have a sister podcast called

699
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: UH Stuff You Miss in History Classes. We had initially fantastic.

700
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: We initially were like trying really hard not to cover

701
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: anything that they've covered, but then we realized, like it

702
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: we it's different, it doesn't matter. It is our perspective,

703
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: and it's going even if someone enjoys that show, they

704
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: can hear us doing the same episode topic and it

705
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: would be a completely different version of it. Even if,

706
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: like the facts were all true. It's like a different

707
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 1: version of that story that could probably be valuable or

708
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: at least entertaining in a different way or comforting in

709
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: a different way. May no one owns this story, and

710
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. What we want to make sure

711
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: we continue to do is approach everything we do with

712
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: that empathy and connectedness with the audience so that people

713
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: continue to hang out, you know. Uh yeah cool. Speaking

714
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: of the audience, high we were wondering if y'all had

715
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: any questions for us. There's a microphone that's going to

716
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: be coming around. I'm sure you're used to this by now.

717
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: We're recording for virtual so be clear. Okay, please Hi, UM,

718
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: that's loud. Don't worry. My name is Colleen, and my

719
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: podcast is not almost there. It's not funny, but it's

720
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: um kind of like uplifting, motivational inspiration. And there's been

721
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: a couple of moments. We had this guest and we

722
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: like plan for it, do our research everything like that. UM,

723
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: and this one guest whose father had passed away, which

724
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: was a pivotal moment in his life, and he's done

725
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: countless um interviews about it, spoken about it. But on

726
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: our podcast, he got really emotional and it was like

727
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: deer in the headlights, like I don't know how to

728
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: respond to this emotion right now, and like it was

729
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: the worst transition. Like on YouTube we even got this

730
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: comment that was like good content, but if you missed

731
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: that moment, like right away, the audience like commented on it.

732
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: So I don't know if you have any advice on

733
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: even in all your prep, like you get to a

734
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: moment while you're recording that you're that it gets like

735
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: super emotional, Like how do you comfortably live in that

736
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: emotional moment and then bring it out to even if

737
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: it's not humor, but it's like, uh, to a higher place. Well,

738
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: I'm I can give an example, not from this show

739
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 1: at all. We all work on lots of different stuff

740
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: for been and in particular and Lauren and I did

741
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: a true crime show called Happy Face that was about

742
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 1: the father. It was about the daughter of a infamous

743
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: serial killer, and she got very emotional talking about finding

744
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: out about her father being this rapist murderer. You know,

745
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: secret life kind of guy, and she cried a lot,

746
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: and we had to walk the line of like are

747
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 1: we doing service to her story by using these clips

748
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: or is it exploitive to her? And she's obviously part

749
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: of this, she's an executive producer on the project, so

750
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: she was very much open to whatever we wanted to

751
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: do and had like cut if she wanted it gone.

752
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 1: She was fine with whatever we wanted to use, but

753
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: we had a you know, I think obligation to ourselves

754
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: and the listeners to not overplay that hand and to

755
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: only use it in a way that served the story

756
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: and served the narrative and like the emotion of her

757
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: you know, revelation kind of So that makes I think

758
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 1: it's like something you have to kind of like feel

759
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: out in the moment men. And it's certainly different for

760
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: a conversational show than it might be for a heavy

761
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: production that type show. I would I would say, um, Holly,

762
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 1: in terms of nuts and bolts, with those kinds of interviews,

763
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: you are, as the interviewer, you are going to find

764
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: yourself being the object of stability in this conversation about

765
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: these things that have happened, So everything can change and

766
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: be perfect and just so in post in the editing room, right.

767
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 1: But when you are with that person in that moment,

768
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: one of the most important things is, um, you don't

769
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: you shouldn't feel like you have to rush it. Silence

770
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:46,240
Speaker 1: can always be cut right, and you shouldn't feel like, Okay,

771
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: we need to wrap it up because often psychologically for people, UM,

772
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: when you're remembering something, you are experiencing it again, right,

773
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: And so it's incredibly crucial. I would say to first

774
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: if you know that kind of stuff is if you're

775
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: going to go into those waters Bacon for that interview,

776
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 1: at least um, at least fifty more time than you're planning.

777
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: So if it's if you're like we're gonna talk for

778
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: an hour, be ready to go for an hour and

779
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: a half or two hours. Make sure that you don't

780
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: leave them in that moment you know, and and you

781
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: can you can stay with them. It's totally fine to say, hey,

782
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: do you want to take a break, right, and we'll

783
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,439
Speaker 1: you know, we will come back intend um. But when

784
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: you say you know, we'll come back, intend what you're

785
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: really saying and what they're feeling, even if it's unconscious,

786
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 1: is this person is not going to leave me alone.

787
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,959
Speaker 1: They're not going to run away from this. And then

788
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: that once you once you kind of unlock that and

789
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: you build that level of trust, Um, they are going

790
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,240
Speaker 1: to be super super open to talk about other stuff

791
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: because they don't want to live in that moment necessarily either,

792
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: and you sort of help shepherd them through that. It

793
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: does build and the next thing you know, that conversation

794
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: ends on like Police Academy for the best Rotten Tomatoes

795
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: as spoken. Yeah, we're head. Hi. My name is Amy Watson,

796
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: and um, I have a podcast on PTSD that I

797
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: started after the pandemic and um, so my podcast is

798
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: Wednesdays with Watson, and I started my first season autobiographical

799
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: because I have lots of trauma climbed in a closet

800
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: and sort of telling my story, right, Um, and I

801
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: loved what you just said about not leaving the listener

802
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: in a bad place, right, But you can imagine, like

803
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: I'm pretty funny in real life, but it's very difficult

804
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 1: to be funny when you're talking, especially when I was

805
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: telling my my autobiography, which is lots and lots of trauma. Um,

806
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: do you guys find just as valuable? And I think

807
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: you hit it and I'm sorry I can't read your

808
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: name from here, but but do you find it just

809
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: because I'm just there's no way to really inject humor

810
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: and a podcast about PTSD. There just isn't. I mean,

811
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: there's some ways, but is it just as effective to

812
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: just what you just said not leave them in a

813
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: bad place? So, like my second season is telling the

814
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: stories of other people's trauma and the crooked roads of

815
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: hope and pain and how they're not there anymore, right,

816
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: and so we leave them with that the hope. But

817
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: but the journey, the twenty minute journey there is not fun.

818
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: And so one of the things I did, because to

819
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: avoid what happened to her is when people come on

820
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: and tell their stories, because I'm also a writer, so

821
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: I do a pre interview, listen to their story, right,

822
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: so people could can swallow it in small parts and

823
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 1: in a little bit of creative way and then interview them. So,

824
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: in your opinion, in the heart, which is why I

825
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: came in here, is I want them to keep listening

826
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: to the next story, the next story, because this is

827
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: something people aren't talking about. Is that, in your opinion,

828
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 1: just as effective as being funny? Because I can't be

829
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 1: funny about this. We don't have to a UM, I'm

830
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: going to be fully transparent with you, not really joking.

831
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: Diana and Eli are in my opinion, a little funnier

832
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: than us, but I think I think all all five

833
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: of us could agree that. Um. So we're thinking in

834
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 1: terms of palette, right, like a color palette. And the

835
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: what's worse than a lack of humor is forced humor.

836
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 1: You know, somebody's talking about like a time they lost

837
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: someone in a house fire, and you know, um, if

838
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 1: you have the temerity to try to force a joke

839
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: in there, that's that's either monstrous or it's um cartoonishly negligent,

840
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: like you're that that is a missing piece. So I

841
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: would say, I would say if if humor feels forced,

842
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: then that probably is that that is a strong indicator

843
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: that it doesn't belong in that part. And and and

844
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 1: an audience feels at um the way that animals can

845
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: sense earthquakes before they have it, like they will know

846
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: podcast listeners are very intelligent. Well yeah, I mean we're

847
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: we're we start, you know, making sure that we are

848
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: in a story that we can be funny about to

849
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: some degree. So it's it's a little outside our our world.

850
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: But um, but I think you know, we've done comedy

851
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: for a long time together, and uh, one thing, one

852
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: major thing that we learned is that uh, you know,

853
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: you're you're walking your audience through it, and comedy is

854
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: human and uh and humane, good comedy is and you

855
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: can be jarring and shocking and surprising without breaking that

856
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: wall of being humane. And um and I think like

857
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: will interrupt you know a lot of our heavy moments

858
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,399
Speaker 1: with a joke, but we have to find a way

859
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: to do that that doesn't negate that moment, that doesn't

860
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: undo the importance and the heaviness of what we just

861
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: talked about. And I've cut jokes that didn't do that before.

862
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:00,720
Speaker 1: You know, we don't know his nail in the record.

863
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: But but when they're when they're right, I think it

864
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: really kind of helps your audience kind of walk away

865
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 1: from that moment. It's all my favorite like films and

866
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: television shows do that too, or they break up like

867
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: heavy stuff with like a little bit of levity. And

868
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: I think that's you need that. It's like a palate

869
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 1: cleanser to kind of gets you through to the next thing.

870
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,439
Speaker 1: It's true, it does it does help you hang on

871
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: to the end, you know what I mean when you're

872
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: talking about something so heavy and so real, and of

873
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: course there's nothing to joke about, but it's hard to

874
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: stay in that space for a really long time. So

875
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: finding a way, even if it's not humorous, but I

876
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: think you're thinking in the right direction of like finding

877
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,879
Speaker 1: a light moment, even if it's not a funny, laugh

878
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: out loud moment, just to like, Okay, we are good,

879
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: we did that, and now we're back and now we

880
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: can go into the rest of it exactly. Yeah, yeah,

881
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 1: h yeah, that yeah, that's what That's what I would say.

882
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: I think you guys hit on it. So maybe a

883
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: better way to think of this is that comedy or

884
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: humor is a genre of connection, right, it is not

885
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: the only genre. So if there is some sort of connection,

886
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: it is doing the work that comedy would have done.

887
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: And all of these are and and I hate to interject,

888
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: we've got We've been told by our experts over here,

889
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: give a hand for them, please, they're doing Yeah. Uh,

890
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: that's Michael, that's Zach, that's Michelle. In the bag, you're

891
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: so good a name. Yeah, Well, well we walked on Michelle,

892
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: do we have time for one more question? Okay, okay,

893
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:47,760
Speaker 1: Well it's it's all on, Michelle. Now, we believe in you. Hello, Hello,

894
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 1: Heather Parody and I hast a show called Happy Brainy

895
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: Face UM and we look at fund mental health Hacks

896
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: and Tips, and we're about a hundred episodes in UM

897
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 1: a background as mental health therapy, and so it's been

898
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: kind of like beaten into me, like the reverence of

899
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,959
Speaker 1: mental health for good reason. But I also have because

900
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: other side to me that's like quirky and weird, like

901
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: don't leot me up on TikTok like I do skits,

902
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 1: and I like that. So I'm really going to merge

903
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: those two together. But also I'm just so afraid to

904
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,240
Speaker 1: really lean into that with because it's such a heavy

905
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: topic and it's so serious, but to the point of connection.

906
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: I feel like that's the draw of comedy, as we

907
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: can talk about this stuff, it's it's a little bit

908
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: more lighthearted. So this next hundred episodes we do, I

909
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: really want to lean more into the funny and make

910
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: it more enjoyable. But I'm also just so scared of

911
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 1: like doing saying the wrong thing or whatever, and I

912
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: just wanted to know from your expertise, like approaching something

913
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: like mental health, what is something that you would advise

914
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: me as a creator to be considerate of or to

915
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: think of or mindset wise or tactically to do this well. Um,

916
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,399
Speaker 1: but also make it fun too, because that's my heart.

917
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: I think you want to be obviously sensitive to anyone

918
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: that might be going through these things, while not being

919
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: so over sensitive that you new her the whole conversation

920
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 1: kind of, you know. I think some people like again,

921
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: that's a great example you said about that one episode

922
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: where you were so worried about getting it right or

923
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: being sensitive to every possible angle. I don't think you

924
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: always can. You have to kind of go with your

925
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: gut and be yourself and just kind of let the

926
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: chips fall where they may. And you know, obviously we're

927
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: all thoughtful people and we're not going to try to

928
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: say anything that's gonna trigger or offend anybody. But I

929
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: do sometimes think we could probably be a little easier

930
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: on ourselves and not you know, be so overly yea

931
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: worried that we're going to say the wrong thing, because

932
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,359
Speaker 1: then you end up saying nothing at all. Yes, that's

933
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: very true, and if your guiding star is I I

934
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: respect this and I have I have appreciation for what's

935
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: going on with the struggle is I think you won't

936
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: you won't punch down that way because you're you kind

937
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 1: of picked your hero, right, so you're like, I I

938
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: know whose side I'm on. So when I'm making fun,

939
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: it's again, it's to help you get through this conversation.

940
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: Apply it to yourself in a way that's not scary

941
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,439
Speaker 1: and um and like we're in this to get we're

942
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 1: here together. I mean, it's just like you make jokes

943
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: at a funeral. Nobody's like, what a jerk, you know

944
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like everyone's like, oh, thank god you

945
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,439
Speaker 1: said something like leave some tension, you know what I mean.

946
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: And so it really you can find a really I

947
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: think as long as you're thinking as you are thinking,

948
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 1: which is I have a lot of respect for this topic,

949
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: I think you won't go too far. And the other

950
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: thing that you taught me this years ago, uh, is

951
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: that it not not to be too afraid to slip up.

952
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: And as long as you're open to learn and um,

953
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 1: and that some things are you know, no group of

954
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: people is a monolith, right, So there's going to be

955
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: different opinions about things, and you just have to keep

956
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: listening and adapting. Um and and hopefully you never get

957
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: wrong again, but but you may. And that's okay as

958
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: long as you know what matters is what you do

959
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: with that. Afterwards, I think, yeah, well said, yeah, well,

960
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much, thank you to all

961
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: of you for being here. Thank you, thank you so much.

962
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 1: And we'll be we'll be hanging for a second after this. Unfortunately,

963
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: we do have to wrap because otherwise I owe Michael

964
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 1: and Zach like all the beer. So I have a

965
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: wonderful time at podcast movement everyone, and we'll talk to you.

966
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 1: You know what, I gotta be honest listening back to that,

967
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 1: we don't sound half bad, you know what I mean,

968
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 1: Not to break a risk patting ourselves on the back,

969
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 1: but uh, but I like to think that through the

970
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: magic podcast editing, Max was nodding along and a couple

971
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: of couple of things. Okay, Max, you're that still counts

972
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: as a nod. Max is not a no right now,

973
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: but that still counts as it not but not I

974
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 1: thought I thought a know was a shake was affirmative.

975
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: Well we'll sort that out later. Um. But thanks so

976
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 1: much all for listening to that. I hope that you've

977
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 1: got something out of it, a little bit of a

978
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: peak behind the curtain for how we approach the show.

979
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, I mean, it's

980
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: just about, you know, being a human being and approaching

981
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: these topics, you know, with kind of empathy and humanity,

982
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: and treating these subjects like human beings while also not

983
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: being too self serious and as I think hopefully, what

984
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: makes the show fun to listen to. And we surely

985
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: appreciate all of you listening every week. Absolutely, yeah, big

986
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: thanks to the wonderful audience. Big thanks for our colleagues,

987
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,399
Speaker 1: of course, big thanks to Max Williams. Folks, if you

988
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 1: like the idea of us going live and and being

989
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: on the road or even doing something virtual, you know,

990
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: let us know, because we're excited. And Max and Nolan

991
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,320
Speaker 1: I have only been working together through the pen emmic

992
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: we have. This is true. Max and I specifically have

993
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: never met in person, have we? Max only once we

994
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: met during the Underwear episode. Oh wait, no, you're right,

995
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: You're right. I briefly forgot. But it's kind of weird though, right,

996
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: Like I mean, I knew Max before he was our

997
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: producer um years ago, you know, through mutual friends and

998
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 1: Alex and whatnot and so, but we hadn't seen each

999
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 1: other for a long time. And it's same with a

1000
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: lot of our colleagues. That's why this podcast movie was

1001
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: such a big deal because we actually got to hang

1002
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: out with folks that we've only seen in little avatar

1003
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,760
Speaker 1: form where we had formed. But I actually have gotten

1004
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 1: to the point where I conflate the two, you know

1005
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 1: what I mean, where I'm like, oh no, we totally

1006
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 1: see each other all the time. It's the same and

1007
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: it's also different. I'm rambling, but a point being lovely

1008
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 1: to be in person with human beings again. Hope everybody

1009
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: out there plays smart and safe so we can get

1010
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 1: back to doing more of that sooner than later. Well said,

1011
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: we even might uh might take John at another road.

1012
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 1: No alms, We'll see you next time. Fooks. For more

1013
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,

1014
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.