1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Oh, fellow Ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: a weirdly apropos classic episode. You know, every time there's 3 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: an election in these United States, there are also allegations 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: of fraud. It's true. 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 2: This is what I like to refer to you as 6 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 2: the cooping episode. 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we learned this word together. It turns out 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: that no matter how rigged someone thinks, an election maybe 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: in the US in these our modern days, oh folks, 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: who was way crazier in the eighteen hundreds, that's right. 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 2: The idea of voter fraud is something that is very 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 2: topical in this our modern day. But once upon a time, 13 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: these were much more than just allegations. People were being 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: kidnapped off the streets and forced to drink intoxicating beverages 15 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: and set loose at polling places. Costumes, Yeah, under threat 16 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: of the very least having their kneecaps banged up. It 17 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 2: was a really, really rough time. Let's get right into it. Kidnapping, 18 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: binge drinking, and costumes voter fraud in the eighteen hundreds. 19 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Let's begin with 20 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: a hypothetical scenario. Friends and neighbors Imagine that you are 21 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds. You're walking down the street, minding 22 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: your own weather business or pleasure, I'm doing it, and 23 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: you are kidnapped. You are accosted by a gang of ruffians. 24 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: You were taken to a room where there are other 25 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: hapless people like you. But instead of demanding a ransom 26 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: from your loved ones or immediately torturing you or something 27 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: like that, the kidnappers their first move is to attempt 28 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: to get you drunk, booze you up, to booze you up. 29 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 1: And we'll continue this story, but first let's pause for 30 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: the introduction. Hello, I'm Ben. 31 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 2: I'm Nolan. You know, the second thing they might have done, Ben, 32 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 2: is maybe put on a false mustache upon your face, 33 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: or perhaps a straw hat, top hat, any kind of hat, 34 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: a funny nose, maybe, because they were trying to disguise you, 35 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: right against your will, for the purposes of perpetrating a 36 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: voter fraud. 37 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: I feel like the badger could have stayed in the 38 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: bag for a second. But you are spot on, And 39 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: how ridiculous is this? Oh, we have to remember to 40 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: say hello, won't you join us friends and neighbors? Fellow 41 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians. In tilting your hat to our super producer 42 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: Casey Pegrow, You're right, nol It seems strange to think 43 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: of it because nowadays, when we think of kidnapping, we 44 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: think of, you know, nefarious crime, right. 45 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, we think of you know, wealthy or dare we say, 46 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: even middle class Americans traveling abroad in certain countries. Columbia 47 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: got a pretty bad rap for this in years past 48 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: and getting nabbed, you know, from tourist destinations and held 49 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: ransom for the wealthy or middle class families back in 50 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: America to send forth money for the release of said 51 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: hapless adult relatives who probably should have had their wits 52 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: more about it now I'm victim blaming. 53 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: What a way to start the episode. No, no, no, no, no. 54 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: I think I think this is a good place for 55 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: us to carve out a distinction, because you're absolutely right. Nowadays, 56 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: the first thing you think of when you hear kidnapping 57 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: is likely going to be one of two things. You're 58 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: going to think that someone is after money, or you're 59 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: going to think it may be some creep with cedy 60 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: or sleazy intentions. Yes, purvey preoccupations. There we go, And 61 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: I like the alliteration. But let's not forget, Ben that 62 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: there is also political capital right right, And this is 63 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: apropos in this day and age, because regardless of where 64 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: you find yourself falling on either side of the false 65 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: dichotomy known as political parties here in the US, or 66 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: whether you are not in the US and you're a 67 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: foreign observer, one thing you've probably noticed is that the 68 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: concept of voter fraud has been making the headlines for 69 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: the past few years. It really has. 70 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 2: Our current president made quite a to do about it 71 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 2: when it was looking like he wasn't as much of 72 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 2: a shoe in for the presidency as he might have 73 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: liked to believe, and he started planting the seeds of 74 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 2: widespread voter fraud, illegal unregistered undocumented immigrants, or corruption at 75 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 2: the local level going to the polls and droves, or 76 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 2: like you say, corruption at the local level. Now we 77 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 2: have largely electronic voter machines. There was even talk of 78 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 2: hackery of voting machine. 79 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: Right right through the de Boult connection exactly. 80 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 2: So there were a lot of red flags, at least 81 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: as far as DJT Right's concerned. That's Donald J. 82 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 1: Trump. That's how I'm going to refer to him the 83 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: commander in chief. 84 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 85 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: And what's important to note here is that allegations a 86 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: possible voter fraud came from all directions recently, but primarily 87 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: from President Trump's crew or supporters, and for people who 88 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: were critics of these allegations or accusations, this seemed like 89 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: an unfounded worldview or conclusion. But regardless of what we 90 00:05:54,720 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: think about the sanctity or the infallibility of the voting 91 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: process to date, whether you think it's rigged, whether you 92 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: think it works okay, or whatever, the true and strange 93 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: fact of the matter is that back in the eighteen hundreds, 94 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century, voter fraud was a huge thing. 95 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 2: As I like to say, Actually, my friend Frank likes 96 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 2: to say wide rife. We stole that from a British 97 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: television program, so that's you know, three degrees of catchphrase thievery. 98 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: But yes, just widespread all over the place, to the 99 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 2: point where it was like a joke right right. 100 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: The kidnapping that we described for you at the beginning 101 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: of the show, were you to encounter that, you would 102 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: be taken in in a practice called cooping, and this 103 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: would be exactly what we described. A group of people 104 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: kidnap you and several other folks attempt to get you 105 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: drunk and then convince you verbally to go cast your 106 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,799 Speaker 1: vote for a certain political candidate. 107 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 2: And the thing was ben that wasn't even like the 108 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: full scenario. There was another group involved in this process, 109 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 2: and they were the ones who had already had their 110 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 2: votes like bought and paid for by these different groups, 111 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: and the whole like boozing and food situation. They just 112 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: kind of got that as a perk. 113 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, like when you get the cheese, it's and a 114 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: little bit of juice after you give blood exactly. It's 115 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: just a sort of a spoils of political war. So 116 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if these were like combined into a single event. 117 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: Sometimes they were, Yeah, sometimes they were. And the weird 118 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: thing is when we describe it immediately without context. To 119 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: me personally, the idea of being kidnapped, given free booze, 120 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: and then being told that I should go out and 121 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: vote multiple times in an assortment of disguises, ridiculous disguises, 122 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: sounds fantastic. I mean, yeah, dude, I'm a master disguise. 123 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: I look like several different people. Well, you left at 124 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: a crucial detail. You might have also been beaten. That's true. 125 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: We do have to examine that part because this was 126 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: all well, this was all drunken, boozy funding games and 127 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: political crime. If the people who are being cooped agreed 128 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: to play along, if they did not play ball, they were, 129 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: as you said, Noel beaten and in some cases they 130 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: were killed. 131 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 2: Now, Ben, let's go back to the origins of this 132 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: kind of behavior. Something we like to refer to in 133 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: history as political machines. 134 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, political machines. So you've probably heard this term before. 135 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: You've heard it alluded to, at least in some very 136 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: popular works of historical fiction and in film and in novels. 137 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: And a political machine is an organization that exists, typically 138 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: on a city or state level, to maintain its own 139 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: power and pursue its own interest which are often going 140 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: to be corrupt. For instance, a member of political machine 141 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:00,239 Speaker 1: a owns stock or has invested in a certain construction company. 142 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: Then under this political machine, that construction company is going 143 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: to get every bid, sure, even if they are not 144 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: as qualified, even if they're more expensive, even if they're 145 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: more expensive on purpose that you know, and then that 146 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: allows the machine to skim some graft off and off air. 147 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: You and I have been talking about one of the 148 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: most famous political machines in United States history. 149 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, most famous largely because it was one of the 150 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: most effective and had one of the longest reigns, and 151 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: that was Tammany Hall, which I'm sure many of you 152 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: have heard of, the infamous Tammany Hall Boss pit Boss, 153 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: I guess William M. Boss Tweed was his name, and 154 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: they held sway, this organization over New York City politics 155 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 2: for decades. It was formed in seventeen eighty nine and 156 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: wasn't even fully dismantled until nineteen sixty six. 157 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: That was and John V. 158 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 2: Lindsay, who was the final mayor that had had enough 159 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 2: of this, essentially rendered them, kind of neutered them right. 160 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: Another famous New York City mayor, Fiorello LaGuardia, also put 161 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 2: a stop to them between thirty four and forty five, 162 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 2: but then they kind of had a bit of a 163 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 2: resurgence until Lindsey came in. And the closest thing that 164 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: I can compare these political machines to in this one 165 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 2: in particular, is the way the bad rap we see 166 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: unions getting. Whereas obviously a union is a functional thing, 167 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 2: obviously a political activist group has the potential to be 168 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 2: a functional, positive thing, mobilizes support for certain candidates. 169 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: Sure, certain causes that are would benefit the. 170 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: Community, but as we know with unions the history, there 171 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,359 Speaker 2: was a lot of corruption there too that benefited particular 172 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 2: stakeholders that had a lot to gain. 173 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And one of the big differences that we need 174 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: to demarcate here is that in the case of activist groups, 175 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: in the case of community organization, those voting blocks typically 176 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: are going to be operating consensually with the support of 177 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: the voters. And in comparison, though cooping, this particular type 178 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: of ridiculous voter fraud. Cooping was inherently associated with obviously 179 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: political corruption, but also with these political machines, and they themselves, 180 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: if we returned to the Tammany Hall example, were intimately 181 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: connected with on the street crime. You've seen gangs of. 182 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 2: New York absolutely and one thing Tammany Hall did, and 183 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 2: the reason they were able to kind of persevere for 184 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: so long as they reached out to the most impoverished 185 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 2: in the community, including immigrants, Irish immigrants in particular, and 186 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: that's how the Irish got such a foothold in New 187 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 2: York City politics. Over the years is because of this 188 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: Tammany Hall machine that elevated them to positions of prominence 189 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 2: through their control of the electoral process, right, and that 190 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 2: also just gave them a ground swell of political support 191 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 2: because there were a lot of immigrants coming into New 192 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 2: York City all the time. And you get off the boat, 193 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: dam Many Hall reaches out of helping hand, says, hey, 194 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: we got you. If you got us, all of a sudden, 195 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 2: you own the vote. 196 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: Right because who gave you the job, who gave you 197 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: the place to stay, who set you up once you 198 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: got off Ellis Island. There's a fantastic article we'd like 199 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: to recommend from Atlas Obscura called election fraud in the 200 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds involved kidnapping and forced drinking by author Natalie Zarelli. 201 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: And in this article she includes a quote from a 202 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: New York City gang leader named mon Eastmann. He said, 203 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: I make half of the big politicians, meaning that he 204 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: was publicly acknowledging that he was. He and his gang 205 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: were working for Tammany Hall, taking people by hooker by crook. 206 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 1: I make them like I'm a book maker, like I 207 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: did that right, taking them by hook or by crook 208 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: and cajoling them to vote multiple times, said I keep 209 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 1: going back to the costumes. I wonder if the costumes 210 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: were any good, because at this level of corruption, the 211 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: people manning the poles, and you can see some of 212 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: these pictures, I think the people manning the poles were 213 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: also in on the game. Oh well, get get get 214 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: a kick out of this. 215 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 2: Then Ben, in an article form Mental Flaws, Democracy's Dirty History, 216 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 2: one of the coop bosses, I guess this is the 217 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 2: term that was used here of Tammany Hall. He described 218 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 2: the smartest way to get the most bang for your 219 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: buck in terms of, you know, kidnapping these folks. He 220 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 2: could get four votes out of one human person he voted, 221 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 2: had him vote one time with a full beard, then 222 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 2: again with some take off the beard mutton chops, No, 223 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 2: maybe keep the beard on. I'm not sure, unclear, and 224 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 2: then a third time only a mustache, and then finally 225 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: the coup de gras, the clean shaven vote. And I 226 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: was actually talking with super producer Casey Pegrim off air, 227 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 2: and I wanted to ask this to you. 228 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: Ben. 229 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 2: Was there no means, or if only rudimentary means of 230 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 2: confirming someone's identity when they were voting in these days. 231 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: What was that like? It's an interesting question. It's one 232 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: that has echoes and consequences here in the modern day 233 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: with the argument over voter ID. 234 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: Cards, which is a big problem with the Trump stuff 235 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: we were talking about earlier. That was a big beef 236 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: where a lot of places in the United States got 237 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: rid of those voter ID laws because they are considered 238 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: by many to be inherently racist. 239 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: Right, and as horrific and sad as it is, we 240 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: have to we would be remiss if we did not 241 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: point out that one of the most immediate ways people 242 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: at the polls or polling officials decided whether or not 243 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: someone was qualified to vote was by observing the color 244 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: of their skin, that's right, which is a huge travesty. 245 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: But in addition to that, we have to wonder if 246 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: there were some sort of proof of residency, like an 247 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: address perhaps, because in these accounts of voter fraud, one 248 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: thing that we don't see mentioned at all is any 249 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: mention of paperwork involved. We just see disguises. Yeah, and 250 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: obviously you could vote while you were rip roar and drunk, clearly. 251 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 2: And the thing too, is like if the fix here 252 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: the scam was just to buy a bunch of fake 253 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: mustaches and beer. They obviously didn't have a whole you know, 254 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: counterfeiting department, you know, stamping out fake passports or birth 255 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 2: certificate documentation or anything like that. So it seems to 256 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: me like it was a much more on an eyeball 257 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 2: recognition and a handshake and a promise kind of in 258 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: these days. 259 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, and here's something else weird. Until the introduction 260 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: of what was called the Australian ballot in the eighteen eighties, 261 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: when you voted, your voting choice was public Viva vote jay. 262 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly what is it with the 263 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 2: human voice? 264 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: I believe that's the actual term. 265 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is kind of where we see the start. 266 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 2: Maybe not with the coercion and the kidnapping, but in 267 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 2: the early days of democracy, voting was always a pretty 268 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 2: contentious situation because if you had to say in front 269 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 2: of God and your peers and your township and everyone 270 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: who you voted for, if they didn't agree with you, 271 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 2: they might try to kick your ass. 272 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, try being the hopeful addition to that sentence there. Yeah. 273 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: There's an article on History Extra called A Brief History 274 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: of Election Rigging in the US that covers some of this. 275 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: And the strange thing is that what we're describing is 276 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: absolutely correct. So voters would line up to cast their 277 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: ballots with party operatives on the side telling them to 278 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: do the vote, or trying to bribe them to do 279 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: the vote, or trying to talk them into or out 280 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: of the vote. That's why. 281 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 2: Why do you think it's so important that we don't 282 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: allow campaigning at polling places today? 283 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: Clearly an offshoot of this kind of behavior, right, Yeah, 284 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: and it's still in a strange way. Look, the states 285 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: are doing their collective best with the voting process, but 286 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: there are still gang rules. I'm sure there are still 287 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: people who wear a who say, Okay, I can't support 288 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: a political candidate, but let me wear an all blue 289 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: or all red. I don't know a onesie. I've never 290 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: seen anybody in a one see. 291 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 2: But there's weird rules about that stuff too. Like you 292 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 2: certainly couldn't definitely couldn't wear like a vote for Hillary 293 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 2: t shirtch No, but if you wore some kind of 294 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 2: dog whistle thing that let people know I'm watching you. 295 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 2: And that's the thing too. Trump actually encouraged he said, Okay, 296 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 2: there's going to be this widespread voter fraud, and he 297 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: encouraged his supporters to quote keep an eye on the polls. Yeah, 298 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 2: and maybe make people a little uncomfortable. 299 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: I had heard about that too, and whether that result 300 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: in a physical activity on the ground. What remains inarguable 301 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 1: is that this did not come straight out of the blue, 302 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: straight out of left field. This has vast historical pressident 303 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: here in the US. Violence in voting in the eighteen 304 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: hundreds was common enough that up to a point, it 305 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: was just considered part of the voting process. It was 306 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: just the thing. 307 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 2: It was what to be expected, right, Yeah, Yeah. 308 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: In the logic was this. There's a little misogyny in here, 309 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: of course, but the logic was if a voter was 310 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: not quote unquote manly enough to stand up for his 311 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: chosen convictions and the candidate sure of his choice, then 312 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: they if they couldn't, if they couldn't man up as 313 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: the case were, against a little bit of rowdiness, there's 314 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: some fisticuffs, even some cajoling from supporters of other candidates, 315 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: then were they really even fit to vote? That was 316 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: the idea. 317 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: And it's interesting too how alcohol plays a role in 318 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 2: this from the start as well, even before the kidnapping 319 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: and shoving fake mustaches on people's faces. In this mental 320 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 2: loss article, it references the fact that even George Washington 321 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 2: himself understood that maybe you might need a little bit 322 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 2: of liquid courage at the poles because of this whole 323 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 2: idea of standing up for what you believed in. If 324 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 2: you need to have your voice be louder than the opposition, 325 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 2: you might need to be a little tanked before you 326 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 2: do this. And he ran for the Virginia House of 327 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 2: Burgesses in seventeen fifty eight and gave voters at the 328 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 2: poles twenty eight gallons of rum, fifty gallons of rum punch, 329 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 2: thirty four gallons of wine, forty six gallons of beer, 330 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 2: and two gallons of hard cider. 331 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 1: No mention on whether he distributed his famous aggnog. 332 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 2: No, but he did talk about he did use the 333 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 2: expression swilling the planters with bumbo, which is a pretty 334 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 2: tasty sounding yet boozy cocktail consisting of rum, water, sugar, nutmeg, 335 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 2: and optional cinnamon. 336 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: And I do want to point out for everyone who 337 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: might have had the question, all those gallons you heard about, 338 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: those were total yes for the day. Those were not 339 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: per per It was not that wealthy, but he was 340 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: onto something. This was this was common in the eighteen hundred's, 341 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: the practice of cooping. It had a timeline that we 342 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: should mention. They weren't kidnapping people on the day of voting. 343 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: They were kidnapping them like up to two or three 344 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: days before and keeping them in a windowless basement against 345 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: their or maybe not, I don't know. They probably pulled 346 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: a lot of homeless people too. Point we were happy 347 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: to have a warm place to stay. What a nightmare. 348 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. This, this is so off topic, 349 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: but this reminded me of a story or Russian friend 350 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: of mine told me about a really disturbing game. And please, 351 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: fellow Russian ridiculous historians, let us know if this is 352 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: an actual thing, because I have always been captivated about this. No, 353 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: it's a game called submarining go on, So it doesn't 354 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: even sound like a game to me. I don't entirely 355 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: understand the point does it involve? Which is kind of 356 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: the story? Is this that a group of people would 357 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: get together, And again I heard this from a Russian 358 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: friend who was telling me about Russian games. A group 359 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: of people get together, they'll get an apartment and they'll 360 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: nail up planks or black out all the windows, and 361 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: they'll get locked in with like cold cuts and bread, 362 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: absolute darkness and just a ton of booze, like hard liquor, 363 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: and they'll be in there for days in total dark, 364 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: just drinking and eating cold cuts, and one person who 365 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: was also another game comes by later to unlock the 366 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: door and let them out. That sounds incredibly disturbing to me. 367 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 2: Wow, is this sort of like a battle royale with 368 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 2: like sandwich meats and booze kind of situation? 369 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: I have no idea, because you know, are expecting to 370 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: find when they come let them out. I have no idea. 371 00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: Maybe it's a spiritual revelatory thing, but what was happening 372 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: with cooping was uncomfortably close to that, And since there 373 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: were so many people in on it, the law or 374 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: the legal system was really hard pressed to impose some 375 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: kind of consequence for this because the people who were 376 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 1: rigging the vote were the people who were in charge 377 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: of giving the yay or nay to a judge. So 378 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: for a judge, it's political suicide in many cases, especially 379 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: in New York at the time, to stand up against this. 380 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 2: Did you read the bit about how election. Poll workers 381 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 2: were also at risk. Ben of one thing that I 382 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 2: saw was having their coffee spiked with laxatives so that 383 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 2: they quote would be otherwise engaged during the most important 384 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 2: phase of the count This is again from that mental 385 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: Floss article by AJ Jacobs. So no one was safe. 386 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 2: None was safe, Ben, Yeah, none. 387 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, the public had a 388 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 1: bit of hypocrisy about this because people were aware of 389 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: and disgusted by this practice specifically cooping, but corruption overall 390 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: in domestic politics. But it was so common, so baked 391 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: in that we found accounts of it happening in multiple states, 392 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: not just in New York. And this practice continued through 393 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: the end of the nineteenth century. They also had cases 394 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen ten, there was one in Adams County, Ohio, 395 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: where a judge is a little unusual actually brought to 396 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: trial and convicted. Get this, one thousand, six hundred and 397 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: ninety voters, twenty six percent of the electorate of the 398 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: county for selling their votes. And you know, again we 399 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: have to wonder was the were the voters in question 400 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: falling for a more gentle Washingtonian bribery scam or what 401 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: is it, a more violent nice farm. 402 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: Be a shame if something happened to happen to it, 403 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 2: Boss Tweed kind of rib yeah, and Ben I was surprised, Yeah, 404 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 2: not surprised. It makes perfect sense that we inherited this 405 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 2: from our former rulers in the United Kingdom. 406 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right. 407 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, this cooping was part of their electoral process as well. 408 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 2: And I found a delightful passage from a book called 409 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: Knowing Right from Wrong The Insanity Defense of Daniel McNaughton 410 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 2: that describes cooping in English elections in eighteen thirty four. 411 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 2: And here goes this story from this book by Richard Moran. 412 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: Quote. 413 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 2: If bribery and improper influence failed to persuade reluctant voters, 414 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 2: they wanted them to vote Tory. There was always violence 415 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 2: and intimidation. The practice of cooping or abducting an opponent's 416 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 2: supporters until after the election was nearly universal. Consequently, cooping 417 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,479 Speaker 2: one's own supporters and keeping them locked up in public 418 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 2: house of a pub until it was time to vote 419 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 2: developed as a defensive response. Here here's the best part. 420 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 2: Where you had these factions warring with each other. It 421 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 2: was not uncommon for large groups of drunken voters to 422 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 2: be escorted under guard to the polling place in Ireland 423 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 2: where wholesale cooping took place. Refusal to surrender to what 424 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 2: one historian has called ceremonious abduction carried with it the 425 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 2: full wrath of the landlords the barkeeps. He goes on 426 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 2: to say how people who manage the campaigns actually hired 427 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,479 Speaker 2: these gangs of what are deemed bullies to intimidate and 428 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 2: physically abuse voters, and then he goes on to say 429 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 2: election day in many towns and boroughs was characterized by 430 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 2: riots and mob violence. At Hertford, the Tory candidate Lord 431 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 2: Dustra and Lord Mohan employed a band of gypsies to 432 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,479 Speaker 2: harass Radical voters. The radical candidate Thomas Duncombe retaliated by 433 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 2: hiring one hundred and fifty where bargemen, so you know, 434 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 2: fight fire with fire or gypsies with bargemen. 435 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: There was also an intensely close and I would think 436 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: much more publicly acknowledged link between politics and entertainment, which 437 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: to a degree helps us contextualize this practice. So public politics, 438 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, had a ton of drinking involved at the time. 439 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: There were a lot of torchlit rallies and there were 440 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: things called jollification barbecues. That sounds like fun, right, I 441 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: want to be jollified. And in an article Riling Up 442 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: the Shrewd Wild Boys by John Grinspan, we explore some 443 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: of the differences between then and today. So during the 444 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: peak of American campaign excitement, he writes, our democracy was louder, meaner, 445 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: and merrier than it had ever been before. Populist campaigners 446 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: perfected the art of political show business a genre. Then 447 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: he gets his licks in here that seems to be 448 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: making a comeback. He's writing in twenty twelve, sure prescient, right, yeah, 449 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: and if only he knew right? And so from eighteen 450 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: forty through nineteen hundred, he says, these types of campaigns 451 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: did select people who would lead the government at this 452 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 1: stage unanimously all men. But they also were the best 453 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: show in town. These were gaudy, gonzo rituals, and people 454 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: would go a political people would go just because it 455 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: was great food, tons of cheaper, free booze. And then 456 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: there were shows that were singing, there was partying. There 457 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: were the pretty much distracts of the time, which were 458 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: these fiery invectives against those monsters and traders. Oh sure, 459 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: or they would sometimes say, perhaps not entirely American opponents. 460 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know what, it makes me think of 461 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 2: that scene in Oh Brother or Art Thou where it's 462 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 2: you know, is he is or is you ain't my 463 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 2: constituency and he has like dwarves and it's all like 464 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 2: this crazy smoke and mirrors, kind of like pt Barnum 465 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 2: esque atmosphere with banners and parades and all this stuff, 466 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 2: you know, some of which we still see today, but 467 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 2: much more cartoonish. 468 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: To borrow your word of choice there, thank you, it's 469 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,959 Speaker 1: a go to. Well. Here's the thing though, because we 470 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: were talking about this practice which was wild, which was common, 471 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: which was real, But we have ignored up to this 472 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: point the fact that several great and acclaimed US politicians 473 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: were alive and active during this time, and they were 474 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: also doing the same sort of thing. Maybe not cooping, 475 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: but politicians themselves encouraged that. We even have a record 476 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: of Abraham Lincoln in the eighteen forties planning what he 477 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: thought would be a great party. That headline Wild Shrewd 478 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: Boys comes from his letter that. 479 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 2: He wrote that sounds like a really cool party crew, 480 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 2: the Wild Shrewd Boys. 481 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: It does. I would love to see them at a 482 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: house park already, so long as it was not my house. 483 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 2: And as you mentioned earlier, Ben, there was a time 484 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 2: where you know, you pole workers would know whether it 485 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 2: was okay for someone to vote or not simply by 486 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 2: looking at the color of their skin, you know, seeing 487 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: if they were in fact or not white. But then 488 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 2: we have emancipation in the late eighteen sixties, so we 489 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 2: have that fantastic article from history extra dot com that 490 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 2: talks about the plight of African Americans. After this period 491 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 2: in time, and especially in the South, there was a 492 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 2: sense that even though black men did receive the franchise, 493 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 2: their very presence at these elections was seen as an 494 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 2: affront to the election process and that they were somehow 495 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 2: plants from you know, Northern Yankee carpetbagger scum, trying to 496 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 2: rig the election in their union love and favor and 497 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 2: gross gross stuff. Again, Yeah, that is he is or 498 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 2: is you ain't? My constituency stuff comes to mind. So 499 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 2: a long, hard fought battle to where we are now 500 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: with elections, which clearly people still have some issues with. 501 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: I don't think we're ever going to be fully comfortable 502 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 2: with something as important as the election processes I've always 503 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 2: wonried why don't they just put it all online? 504 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: Right? There's an answer to that from purists, right, well yeah, 505 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: but then again, it's it's something that has two answers, 506 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: one from the realm of idealism and one from the 507 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: realm of well, how low can people go? Morally speaking? 508 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: The thing is there is always someone who can go 509 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: lower than you in the game of morality. Limbo. I'm 510 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: actually happy with that. Oh, I love that. A lot 511 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: of these comparisons don't work because you and I are 512 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: shooting from the hip. But that wasn't that bad? 513 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 2: No, man, well done? 514 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: Should we put it on a T shirt? Hey? What 515 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: do you say? As historians? 516 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 2: We do have a new T shirt shop coming up 517 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 2: at Tea Public if you haven't heard of it, where 518 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 2: they do this thing where we can we can drum 519 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 2: up a catchphrase design and two shakes of a Lamb's tale. 520 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 2: So if you guys want some unique short run ridiculous 521 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 2: history catchphrase teas or hoodies or you know, throw pillows, 522 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 2: sure let us know parkas. I don't know, we're just 523 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 2: making stuff up. Or let us know what what you 524 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 2: thint Bunny hugs. Yeah, yeah, wallet's. 525 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: Jinko jeans. 526 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 2: I don't think they make those anymore, Dude, I think 527 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 2: it's over for Jinko jeans. 528 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: Somebody still has a pair. I'm sure we would like 529 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: to hear your ideas for that. I think we're already 530 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: both pretty much sold on Son of a Fish and 531 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: Chip Show shirts, respectively, but we want to hear your 532 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: designs and ideas. What would be a cool T shirt? 533 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: This is so new and strange to us, I think 534 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna get very weird with it. 535 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And the best place to do that, if you 536 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: don't want to just email us directly at Ridiculous at 537 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 2: HowStuffWorks dot com, is to hit us up on our 538 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 2: Facebook group, the Ridiculous Historians, which you can join via 539 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 2: your mobile or desktop Facebook app. And we've got a 540 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 2: cool little community there and we hop in there and 541 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 2: hang and shadowy now and then. 542 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: So maybe we could do a poll, Ben, I want to. 543 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: So this is the idea I proposed. Noel, you can 544 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: confirm that you have not heard about this until we're 545 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: on air, but I'd like to do maybe one poll 546 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: a week on Ridiculous Historians, just about stuff. We could 547 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: do a poll, for instance, on vote for a favorite 548 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: T shirt concept. We could also do a poll on 549 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: questions about where you and your fellow listeners stand on 550 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: a particular topic brought up in an episode, because if 551 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: we've learned one thing from today's show, it's that no 552 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: matter how much we knocked the voting process today, it's 553 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: way cooler now. 554 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, you should do it. It's important, especially you know on 555 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 2: our Facebook page. 556 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, be the change. Start on Ridiculous Historians. Let us 557 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: though you can also find us on Twitter. You can 558 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: find us on Instagram where we are some variety of 559 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History or Ridiculous History show. 560 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 2: And if you want to see us live in the flesh, 561 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 2: in person, in human form, we will be at the 562 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 2: Trocadero Theater in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on July the first, four 563 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 2: o'clock PM, alongside our buddies Will and Mango from Part 564 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 2: Time Genius, and we're going to do our first ever 565 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 2: live show. 566 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: We're super stoked about her. Yeah, wish us luck, Come 567 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: cheer us on or laugh at us in person, because 568 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: one thing we can promise you is that there are 569 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: several surprises in store, but what are they? No spoilers, 570 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: You will have to tune in non spoilers, but hey, 571 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: we'll see you there or next time on another episode 572 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: of Ridiculous History Take Care of Everyone. 573 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 574 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.