1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: Rolled Dall. He's twenty three years old. 2 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 2: As he soars through the sky, the cockpit of the 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 2: RAF fighter he's sitting in has no roof. He's six 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 2: foot six, so his head juts well up above the windshield, 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 2: completely exposed. His goggles offer zero protection at this speed. 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: Wind and sand and debris wire just assaulting his face. 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: He's basically blind, and every single breath is a battle. 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: He thinks he may have veered off course, has no 9 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 2: idea where he is, somewhere over the Libyan desert. Maybe 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: he can't get his bearings. Blind and a chaos, just 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: desperately trying to navigate while enemy fire. 12 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: Tears through the air around him. 13 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: He can feel the vibrations of bullets wheezing past his head. Oh, 14 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: and Doll got inside a plane for the very first 15 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 2: time less than six months earlier. Writer Matthew Denison tells 16 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 2: us the Doll had taken off from northern Egypt this 17 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: evening in his pocket, classified documents pinpointing his entire squadron's location. 18 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: Within the hour, the desert sunset gives way the absolute 19 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 2: darkness his fuel gauge dropping, Doll realizes with growing dread 20 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: that he has strayed hopelessly off course, then catastrophe. The 21 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: underbelly of his aircraft catches a boulder hiding in the darkness. 22 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 2: Metal shrieks as the plane's nose pitches forward and crashes 23 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 2: to the ground. Crumpling like paper, Doll is catapulted against 24 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,639 Speaker 2: the instrument panel. The impact drives his nose backward through 25 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: his face, His skull fractures, blood runs hot and. 26 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: Thick down his skin. 27 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 2: Denison writes, the doll can no longer feel where his 28 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: teeth should be. Disoriented, he does feel the approaching heat 29 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 2: of flames that threaten to consume both him and his aircraft. 30 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: His overall's already burning. Doll drags himself away from the 31 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: twisted wreckage as fast as he can. Each inch across 32 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 2: the sand is agony behind him. The inferno reaches the planes' ammunition. 33 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 2: Its machine guns begin firing wildly, bullets kicking up sands 34 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 2: in all directions. 35 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: By some miracle of chance or fate, Doll. 36 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 2: Has crawled just far enough the bullets don't find him. 37 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: As shock overtakes his battered body, sleep finally claims him. 38 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: Let's now travel back to a year before that devastating crash. 39 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 2: This is before Doll was sent to Washington, before he 40 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: was recruited into the Irregulars, before he spent weekends mixing 41 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: Martiniz with the President. Doll's just a guy in a 42 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: room in his early twenties, trying to figure out what 43 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: to do with his life. All Doll knows for sure 44 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 2: is that right now he needs to escape his family's 45 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: home in Buckinghamshire, which feels like a damn prison. He's 46 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: desperate for some adventure. Dall is someone who's always always 47 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: looking for adventure. It's impossible to say for certain where 48 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 2: this spirit comes from, but the tragedy of his youth 49 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 2: offers a pretty good clue. When Dall was three, his 50 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: seven year old sister, Astrey, died of appendicitis. The family 51 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: had barely processed this loss when just three weeks later, 52 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: Dall's father died. Technically, Doll's father died of pneumonia, but 53 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: he basically chose not to fight the illness because of 54 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: his depression over Astrey. The two deaths in a row 55 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: like that were an earthquake for young Doll. Buckingham Shure, 56 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: despite its beauty, is stained by these memories for him. 57 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 2: If you can remember the forbidden forest scenes in the 58 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: Harry Potter movies. 59 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: You've glimpsed these woods, but. 60 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: What appears magical on screen is suffocating to Doll. He 61 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: understood that if he didn't break free soon, he'd be trapped, 62 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: bogged down here, forced into the tedious business that his father, 63 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: a shipbroker, have been so successful in. Dall's desire for 64 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: adventure is something he shares in common with a lot 65 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: of great writers, desperate to experience everything in order to 66 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: have something to write about a plot, a character, a situation, 67 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: and emotion. Writers in Dolls era are expected to be 68 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 2: deeply physically engaged with the world, not just observers but participants, 69 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: which feels different from today right Today's writers often prioritize 70 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 2: things like activism and family and intellectual engagement over physical 71 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: risk taking. But physicality aside, there's no substitute for adventure 72 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: and new experiences in a writer's life. My creative writing 73 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 2: students at Yale always asks me how to make it 74 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,679 Speaker 2: as screenwriters. I encourage them to go live their lives 75 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: a little get engaged with the world in some fashion. 76 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: Because young writers who just move right to la after 77 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: graduation and start work in an agency's mailroom all end 78 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 2: up writing scripts that feel less like real life and 79 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 2: more like echoes of TV shows they've seen. When Dahl 80 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 2: graduates school, he sets out on his first grade adventure 81 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: and applies to Shell Oil. I know, I know, becoming 82 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 2: a trainee at an oil company does not sound like 83 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 2: a cutting edge prospect, but back in the late thirties, 84 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 2: it is as exciting as it gets. Shell Oil is 85 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: one of the hottest companies in the world. Here's Tony 86 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: Curtis trying to woo Marilyn Monroe in Some Like It 87 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: Hot by masquerading as the heir to guess what company 88 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: I want you. Yes, so did my father and my grandfather. 89 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 2: You might say we had a passion for shows. That's 90 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: why we name the oil company after it. Here are you. 91 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 2: There's massive demand for oil, for butting car companies and aviation. 92 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 2: Joining Shells like joining an AI company today. And the 93 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 2: most attractive part for Doll is that you're guaranteed to 94 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: be said somewhere across the globe. Adventure served up in 95 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: a silver platter. Doll gets posted in East Africa, fully 96 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 2: aware what a commitment this is, As he points out 97 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 2: in an interview by Peter Wallace and thrill Maker from 98 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: Night five. 99 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 3: You see, in those days they didn't have airplanes, so 100 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 3: we're talking about nineteen thirty five. To go to someone 101 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 3: like Africa, it was a long way. It was a 102 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 3: two and a half week trip in the boat. When 103 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 3: you went, you went for three years. 104 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:19,679 Speaker 1: But it's all totally thrilling. 105 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: Doll immerses himself in the local culture, learning Swahili and 106 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 2: enjoying the adventure of it all. He doesn't realize it, 107 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: but he's setting himself up for a lifetime's worth of 108 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 2: characters too. When Daal invents Charlie Bucket of chocolate factory fame, 109 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 2: he actually models him on one of the young African 110 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 2: boys he befriends in Tanzania. It's only on later drafts, 111 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: under pressure from his British publishers, that Charlie becomes white. 112 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 2: But it's fascinating to think how groundbreaking the book might 113 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 2: have been. Charlie's family represents extreme poverty. Remember those four 114 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: grandparents all sharing that one giant bed. Making them black 115 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 2: would have transformed the story into a powerful statement about 116 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 2: racial inequality, and when Charlie has his triumph at the end, 117 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: it could have served as a broader metaphor for overcomings 118 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 2: the stomach prejudice. Anyway, Doll's work for Shell eventually. 119 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: Grows tedious for him. 120 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 2: He's basically selling oil to farmers across the vastness of Tanzania. 121 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 2: Not a great deal of intelligence or imagination was required. 122 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 2: He later admits the idea of rising through the ranks 123 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: to become an executive someday sounds like death to him. 124 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: He feels the itch to keep moving. But here's what 125 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 2: I think is really driving Doll. He's trying to figure 126 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: out not only what kind of man he is, but 127 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 2: what it means to be a man. After Dall lost 128 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: his father, he was brought up by his mother and 129 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: his many many sisters. There were never any adult men 130 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: in his life. Why this is so relevant is that 131 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: the different worlds Doll goes into in his twenties are 132 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: like the most basic fantasies of what a child thinks 133 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 2: it means to be a man in the mid twentieth century. 134 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: First he'll tried business with Shell oil, then head to 135 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: war to become a fighter pilot. Then he becomes a spy, 136 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: a serial playboy, and seducer of women. He's trying on 137 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: all these different macho exteriors, seeing what fits, and I mean, 138 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: I get it, though we're living in very different times. 139 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: I struggle with this too. Am I a man not 140 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 2: in the way my grandfather would recognize? I have a 141 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: wife and kids and a career. But with a gun 142 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 2: to my head, I could maybe tell you what pliers 143 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 2: are for. Maybe for Dahl in the late nineteen thirties, 144 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 2: World War Two is knocking some of his heroes, like 145 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: Hemingway and Tolkien fought in the First World War. Now 146 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: history is offering his chance. He hears about British forces 147 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 2: and Tanzania needing help, and he jumps at it. He 148 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: abandoned shell oil and enlists as a Special Constable with 149 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 2: the King's African Rifles. His assignment is to arrest any 150 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 2: German attempting to escape across the border into neutral East Africa. 151 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: Dahl helps detain a couple hundred Germans whose only crime 152 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 2: is being German. He moves these innocent people into a 153 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: camp of barbed wire to be held for who knows 154 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: how long. It Shakestall's conscience. This may not be the 155 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: adventure he's after. During the long days patrolling the border 156 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: and the vicious sun. Dall watches warplanes fly overhead. Now 157 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 2: that looks like freedom to him. He gets an idea. 158 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: He'll volunteer for the Royal Air Force, though he's never 159 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: even been inside a plane before. 160 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: He buys a car and drives six. 161 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: Hundred miles to Nairobi to enroll in flight training school. 162 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 2: He quickly realizes he's not a great fit. Literally, Doll 163 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:31,239 Speaker 2: crams himself into Gloucester Gladiators, Tiger Boths and Hawker Hurricanes. 164 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 2: Picture the plane from Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade 165 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 2: when Harrison Ford and Sean Connery escape from German fighters. 166 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: These are open air cockpits designed for pilots who are 167 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 2: five foot seven to five ten. 168 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: At six six, Doll's head sticks way up. 169 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: Above the windshield like an NBA player squeezed into a 170 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 2: tiny convertible with the top down, his knees pulled up 171 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 2: to his chest, and his face constantly battered by rushing wind. 172 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: Despite all that, soaring up in the air, something magical happens. 173 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: Falls in love with flying. This passion will re emerge 174 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 2: later in his writing. Several of his young characters escape 175 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 2: their earth bound troubles by literally flying away. 176 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: Most famously in James and the Giant Peach. 177 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: The British Air Force is in such dire need of 178 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 2: fighters that Dolls quickly sent to the front lines before 179 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: he even completes combat training. Sixteen other newly minted pilots 180 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 2: go with him, but by war's end, only three of 181 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: the sixteen will survive, including Dol. That's how close we 182 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: were to never having heard of Willy, Wonka or Matilda. 183 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 2: According to writer Nadia Cohen, Doll's first kill comes quickly. 184 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: He shoots down a German plane and returns to base 185 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 2: with the sobering realization that he's probably just ended another 186 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: man's life. His conscience is rattled again, just like during 187 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 2: those border patrol arrests. Is he built for this. He's 188 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: in his early twenties, He's sensitive, thoughtful, and he knows 189 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 2: what it feels like to lose a father and sister 190 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 2: well before their time. Now he's taken the life of 191 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: a young stranger, someone who probably has his own father, sister, brother. 192 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 2: Dahl knows precisely what that family will endure. The next day, 193 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 2: Doll finds himself in another air battle. He shoots down 194 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 2: a second German plane, killing another pilot. He's affected, but 195 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: he finds it gets a bit easier to compartmentalize. 196 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: Two days later, in the. 197 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 2: Battle of Athens, Doll and the squadron are vastly outnumbered. 198 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: It'll be a miracle if any of them survive. Dahl 199 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: describes it as a long dog fight in which fifteen 200 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 2: hurricanes fought for half an hour with between one hundred 201 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: and fifty and two hundred German bombers. Four of Doll's 202 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: fellow pilots are shot down right before his eyes. Doll 203 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 2: spends every last bit of ammunition he carries. When he 204 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 2: finally lands back a base, his plane is riddled with 205 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 2: bullet holes. Dall ends up needing a full month to recuperate. 206 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: Then he hears the decimated remnants of his squadron are 207 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 2: reassembling in Haifa. More adventure awaits, Doll finds another car 208 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: and drives to Israel. He flies over French airbases every 209 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 2: day for the next month, according to Cohen, shooting down 210 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: at least two more aircraft. Doll keeps crashing his own planes, 211 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 2: but always somehow walks away until the crash that open 212 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 2: this episode, When Dol eventually writes that horrific crash into 213 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 2: his memoirs, he conspicuously excludes the fact that there was 214 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 2: another pilot with him that day in the Libyan desert. 215 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 2: Maybe dolphinks having company made the whole thing less heroic 216 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 2: even more curious, official RAF records showed Doll crash landed 217 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 2: due to low fuel after getting lost, but Dallin says 218 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 2: he was shot down. 219 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: Hmm. 220 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: In both of Doll's memoirs about his childhood, he perpetuates 221 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: myths like this about himself. Now, to be fair, the 222 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 2: memoirs are written in the style we associate with his fiction, 223 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 2: so it's almost like a wink. Don't believe everything I'm 224 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: telling you, folks. Dahl has the same habit of mythmaking 225 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 2: in interviews throughout his life. Now, with some celebrities, we 226 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: just call this straight up lying, but with Dol, I'm 227 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 2: not sure i'd use that word. 228 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: It's as if he's acknowledging that people expect him. 229 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 2: To be Willy Wonka or the BFG, so they shouldn't 230 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 2: take what he says at face value. But of course 231 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: this makes his later problematic remarks and interviews more complicated. 232 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: To deal with. 233 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 2: We'll grapple with how to reconcile Doll's dedication to defeating 234 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: the Nazis as a young man, which is at least 235 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: somewhat inextricable from helping save the Jews of Europe, with 236 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 2: the charges of anti Semitism against him as a much 237 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 2: older man. For weeks after Doll's crash in the Libyan desert, 238 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 2: he lies in a military hospital, unable to even open 239 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: his eyes. Doctors are sure he'll be blind, He'll spend 240 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 2: the rest of his life in darkness. Here's Dol, many 241 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: years later, reflecting on the toll of all these crashes. 242 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 3: I've had so many operations. I'm tied to you with 243 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 3: bits of stream. I've had two hip replacements, my spines 244 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 3: be not praised on many times from an airplane crash, 245 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 3: and this year I had three massive operations on my tummy. 246 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 3: But I'm all right there. But I'm a bit of 247 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 3: a wreck physically. 248 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 2: I always laugh when I hear him say tummy. There 249 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: Doll speaks the way he writes, there's this childlike quality 250 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 2: of someone who never fully grew up, an old man 251 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: who still says tummy with a completely straight face. Woven 252 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 2: inside a much more gruesome, sobering account of horrible pain 253 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: and The mixture of those elements are kind of the 254 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: hallmarks of his books, too, right, the juxtaposition of childlike 255 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 2: wonder alongside genuine darkness. It's the bfg's gentle dream catching 256 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 2: coexisting with child gobbling giants and the whimsy of Willy 257 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 2: Wonka alongside children facing horrific if comical fates. Dall ends 258 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 2: up spending six long months in that hospital. Slowly and 259 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: almost moraulously, he regains his vision. He emerges with the 260 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: knowledge that he's cheated death, which encourages him to take 261 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 2: even more risks going forward. He now knows he can 262 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 2: survive a fall. Doll isn't alone among great artists who 263 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: spent significant time recovering from catastrophic injuries. Free to Callo 264 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: had devastating trauma from a bus crash when she was 265 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: slightly younger than daul spending months in a cast. That's 266 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 2: when she began to think about those haunting portraits. Similarly, 267 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: Stephen King was hit by a van and nearly killed, 268 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: leading to months of painful recovery. He was older than 269 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 2: Doll or Callo, but he had not yet written some 270 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 2: of his best work. In these long recoveries, not only 271 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 2: do you learn to endure the solitude and loneliness of 272 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: the creative life. 273 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: But you also have so much time to reflect on 274 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: your ideas. 275 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: And maybe you also gain insight into suffering or pain 276 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 2: or healing. 277 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: Like Kllo and King, the lifelong. 278 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 2: Chronic pain that Dahl deals with after the crash majorly 279 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 2: infiltrates his work and reshapes his personality. Just recently, the 280 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: US Navy published a confidential report Odin's Eye, suggesting the 281 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 2: extreme conditions faced by fighter pilots HIGI maneuvers and repeated 282 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 2: physical trauma like dollhad, can lead to long term effects 283 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 2: on memory, mood, and behavior. Could lingering brain trauma from 284 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: his pilot days have contributed to Doll's sharp temper. Could 285 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: the injuries account for what some people very much, including 286 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 2: his first wife, describe as his prickly personality. His wife's 287 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: nickname for him, after all, was rolled the Rotten And 288 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 2: might the brain trauma also account for his vivid, dark imagination. 289 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: His headaches from the crash becomes so intense that he 290 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: blacks out regularly, which is not what you want to 291 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 2: hear if you're his commanding officer. Setting him up in 292 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 2: the air, Dall is desperate to keep flying to keep 293 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,239 Speaker 2: the adventure going, but the RAF grounds him. 294 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: His flying days are over. 295 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: Dolls a mess, Terrified, he'll have no choice but to 296 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: go back to Buckinghamshire, back to that landscape haunted by 297 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 2: childhood loss, back to a conventional life that seems to 298 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: him worse than death. Luckily, that's when Dolls recruited to 299 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 2: Washington for an avenger so strange that even his imagination 300 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 2: couldn't have conjured it. 301 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: In our last episode, I talked about. 302 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: Doll's life in the Shadowy Spy game in Washington with 303 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 2: the Irregulars. He quickly makes friends there with other spies who, 304 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 2: like him, go on to create some of the most 305 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 2: iconic cultural touchstones of the twentieth century, like Ian Fleming, 306 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 2: the creator of a spy as famous for how he 307 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 2: likes as Martinis as anything else. 308 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: A Martini shaken nutstud and. 309 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 2: Doll's Georgetown roommate David Ogilvy, who later revolutionizes modern advertising 310 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: and serves as an inspiration for Don Draper on mad Men. 311 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: You never say thank you, That's what the money is for. 312 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 2: Plus Noel Coward, the British playwright and wit who redefined theater, 313 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: interviewed here by Dick Cavott. 314 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: You're what is the word for? Win Warne has terrific 315 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: prolific qualities. 316 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: Ellen Yeah, or of the most influential storytellers and fabulous 317 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 2: of the century, all hanging out together playing spy verse spy. Predictably, 318 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 2: as these charismatic operatives carry out their spy work, they 319 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 2: increasingly find themselves under the FBI's suspicious gaze. Jag Or Hoover, 320 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 2: the authoritarian head of the Bureau, has very rigid rules 321 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 2: for his agents, identical suits, military short haircuts, and absolutely 322 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 2: no facial hair, so imagine how he feels about these 323 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: arrogant playboys of British intelligence operating on his turf. The 324 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 2: FBI turned a blind eye to the Irregulars when they started, 325 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 2: but at this point it's like, are we really just 326 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 2: going to let these British secret agents do whatever the 327 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 2: hell they want on American soil? The Bureau attempts to 328 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 2: get a bill through Congress putting the irregulars, including Doll, 329 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:45,719 Speaker 2: under its supervision. 330 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: They open up secret. 331 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 2: Files on Doll and every other irregular. The noose is tightening. Finally, 332 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 2: William Stevenson, the head of the Irregulars, has no choice 333 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 2: but to agree that all one hundred and thirty seven 334 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 2: British intelligence agents in the US will run all their 335 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 2: missions by Jagger Hoover. But no one thinks Stevenson will 336 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: actually honor this agreement. According to writer Jenet Conan, stevenson 337 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 2: superiors in England dispatch emissaries to him to verify his 338 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 2: compliants spies infiltrating spies. 339 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: One in particular, who will. 340 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 2: Call Agent X, keeps feeding damaging reports about the irregulars 341 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 2: back to London. Stevenson is furious and turns to his 342 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: most resourceful agent for help, Roll Doll. Dall devises an 343 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 2: elegant trap. He invites Agent X to his George shown 344 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: apartment for drinks, a seemingly innocent social call between colleagues, 345 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 2: But hidden within Dall's living room is a microphone capturing 346 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 2: every word. As the evening progresses and booze flows, Dall 347 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: skillfully steers the conversation, encouraging X to disparage his employers 348 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: back in Britain. The secretly recorded conversation is promptly dispatched 349 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 2: to London. Agent X is recalled immediately, the threat to 350 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 2: Stephenson neutralized for now through Doll's cunning years later. This 351 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 2: real life espionage operation will resurface in Doll's fiction, transformed 352 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 2: into a chilling short story about a wealthy husband and 353 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 2: wife who invite a younger couple to their home. The 354 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: hosts secretly install a microphone in the guest bedroom, eavesdropping 355 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 2: on their visitors most intimate conversations. The threat of the 356 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 2: FBI has rattled Doll, making him very aware that the 357 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 2: Irregular's days are numbered and therefore so are his. He's 358 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 2: desperate not to go back home to England, to his 359 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 2: mother's house. But what's next? What's he really trained for? 360 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 2: He sees his pals Fleming and Ogilvy and Coward setting 361 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 2: themselves up for future career success in other fields. They 362 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 2: all have mentors who seem to be guiding them, so 363 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 2: Doll begins looking for his own mentor. 364 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: One way I. 365 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: Could have structured this podcast, by the way, is to 366 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: tell Doll's story by following the hero's journey. Joseph Campbell's 367 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 2: outline for great adventurers from Odysseus to Luke Skywalker, which 368 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 2: Doll fits to a tea. All heroes, according to Campbell, 369 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 2: both fictional and real, go through a series of distinct stages. 370 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 2: First is a call to adventure when the hero gets 371 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 2: pulled out of their ordinary world by a quest for Dall. 372 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 2: This is being recruited to Washington to join the Irregulars. 373 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 2: Among the many stages that follow, there's one particularly relevant here, 374 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 2: meeting the mentor. Once the hero commits to their quest, 375 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 2: a guide or magical helper appears. Think Obi Wan Kenobi 376 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 2: and Star Wars or Morpheus. In the Matrix for Dall, 377 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 2: it's Charles Marsh, an arrogant, well connected, obscenely wealthy newspaper tycoon. 378 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: Marsh started out as a journalist, rising up to become 379 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 2: managing editor of the Cincinnati Post, but his hunger for 380 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 2: wealth and status led him to buy every newspaper he 381 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 2: could get his hands on. By the time he meets Dahl, 382 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 2: Marsh is filthy rich and has grown bored of the 383 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 2: newspaper game. He's putting all his energy and resources into 384 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 2: his passion the war effort. Here's how Robert Carrow, the 385 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 2: Extraordinary author of the Years of Lyndon Johnson series, describes Marsh. 386 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,959 Speaker 1: Having made money. He liked to play the patron with it. 387 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 2: A tall man six foot three, he had the broad, 388 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 2: high forehead and the beaked nose of a Roman emperor 389 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 2: and a manner to match tips to head waiters were 390 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 2: dispensed with a gesture reminiscent of a king tossing coins 391 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 2: to subjects. Marsh traffics and power. If you're in his orbit, 392 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: you're introduced to the right people, and you're in a 393 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 2: position to know and be known. Marsh own's a grand 394 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 2: mansion on our street and joy shown in which he's 395 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 2: always playing host. DC insiders, artists, politicians, and powerbrokers of 396 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 2: all sorts can just come on in, have a drink, talk, 397 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 2: or more often negotiate to give you a sense of 398 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 2: the house and the man. Marsh commissions a large oil 399 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 2: portrait of himself and hangs it over the mantle in 400 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 2: the main sitting room. I love that detail. It says 401 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 2: so much about the guy, doesn't it. I'm imagining my 402 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 2: wife's reaction if I brought home a big old painting 403 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 2: of my life and announced we were hanging it over 404 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 2: the couch. Should be into it, right. Vice President Henry 405 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,959 Speaker 2: Wallace is a constant presence at Marsh's mansion. Cabinet members, media, titans, 406 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 2: and diplomats circulate through the rooms, and so does young 407 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 2: Roll Doll, Marsh's oldest daughter, Antoinette says, of Doll, we 408 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 2: all just adored him, especially my father. We sort of 409 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 2: adopted him. Rold was a real charmer when he wanted 410 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 2: to be. He was great fun to be around. Adopted 411 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 2: is the right word. This is the family that Doll wants, 412 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 2: not the one colored by tragedy in Buckingham Shure. He 413 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 2: wants the one that offers the key to success in Washington, 414 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 2: and having access to all the visitors at our Street 415 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 2: is a gold mine for a young spy. One night, 416 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 2: at a game of high stakes poker, Doll is in 417 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 2: a funk, losing hand after hand, drinking too much, growing frustrated. 418 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 2: He doesn't have much money, so every dollar. 419 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 1: He loses is giant. 420 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 2: But he likes his next hand, so he goes all in, 421 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 2: not realizing or maybe not yet savvy enough to appreciate, 422 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 2: that he's playing against Washington powerbrokers, the ultimate bluffers and hustlers. 423 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: Doll loses his entire paycheck on this one hand, which 424 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 2: is devastating for him the player he loses it to, 425 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 2: though Harry Truman Dall may be getting cleaned out, but 426 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 2: the information intel and connections he's making are priceless. Charles 427 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 2: Marsh at this moment, is in his fifties, he's married, 428 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 2: and he also has a much, much younger girlfriend. Did 429 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 2: you not see that coming from a guy who hangs 430 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 2: a giant painting of himself in his living room. This 431 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 2: younger woman happens to have a very whimsical dolli in 432 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 2: name Alice Glass. She's six feet tall, with movie star 433 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 2: good looks and long blonde hair. According to Conit, the 434 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 2: first time Marsh sees Alice, she's stark naked, a pale, 435 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: shimmering goddess rising unexpectedly from his swimming pool. This was 436 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 2: when Marsh was in his forties, one of the most 437 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 2: powerful newspaper magnets in the country. Alice was nineteen. During 438 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: their relationship, Alice carries on her own affairs with several 439 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 2: other men, most of whom are in Marsha's social circle. 440 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: According to Marsh's daughter Antoinette, again, Alice has a crush 441 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: on Doll, but Doll wisely rejects her. 442 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: He has so much to lose. Doll knows what. 443 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 2: Happened when Lancelot slept with King Arthur's wife, namely the 444 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 2: fall of camelot. Alice is furious at Doll's rejection. Men 445 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 2: do not turn her down. She's cold to Doll whenever 446 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 2: she sees him from then on. By the way, one 447 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: man who did not turn Alice down was Lyndon Johnson. 448 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 2: LBJ was POWs with Marsh. Marsh put the weight of 449 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 2: his newspaper editorials behind LBJ and helped him win his 450 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: first race. LBJ paid Marsh back by having an affair 451 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 2: with Alice. 452 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: Oh. 453 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 2: Marsh was apoplectic when he discovered it. He got LBJ elected, 454 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 2: but Alice in lbj's affair was much more than a fling. 455 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 2: It continued for twenty five years. What eventually broke them 456 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 2: up was Alice's passionate opposition to the Vietnam War. In 457 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 2: all his time with Marsh, Doll has always presented himself 458 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: as a simple employee of the British Embassy. So how 459 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 2: does Marsh feel when he discovers that young Doll is 460 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 2: actually a spy? Will he be even more annoyed with 461 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 2: Doll than he was with his other lying, backstabbing, lanky protege. 462 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 2: Will he cast him into the wilderness? This young man 463 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: he's been so generous with has been infiltrating his home, 464 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 2: reporting back to the Brits on all his fancy guests. 465 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: It's just the opposite. Marsh has the same goal as 466 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 2: Doll to defeat the Nazis, so he's tickled when he 467 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 2: discovers Doll has been keeping the secret Antoinette, Marsh remembers, 468 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 2: my father said, gluck, here, we're on the same team. 469 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: We can help each other. 470 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 2: Marsh quickly becomes essential to Doll's spy work, introducing him 471 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 2: to influential people and tutoring him on cultivating secret sources 472 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 2: which he picked up in his newspaper days. By this time, 473 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 2: Doll is already well versed in the art of seduction. 474 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 2: He plays to Marsha's ego by asking the older man 475 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 2: advice about his future and tantalizing him with a pique 476 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 2: at his orders from the Irregulars whenever he can just 477 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 2: enough to whet Marsh's appetite. When Doll spends a weekend 478 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 2: with the Roosevelts and Hyde Park, for instance, he makes 479 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 2: a private copy of his report and surreptitiously gives it 480 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 2: to Marsh, which the older man hungrily consumes. In their 481 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 2: private talks. Doll even adds a few details he observed 482 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 2: about FDR that are too scandalous to put in his 483 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 2: official report. Isaiah Berlin, who works in the British Embassy 484 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 2: and later becomes one of the most influential philosophers of 485 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 2: the century, is also summoned on occasion to the R 486 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 2: Street Mansion to see how Marsh can help the war effort. 487 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 2: Berlin's take on Marsh is that there's a screw faintly 488 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 2: loose somewhere. 489 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 1: I felt frightened of him. 490 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 2: Berlin says, as if in the presence of someone slightly unbalanced. 491 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 2: If Doll feels the same, he keeps it to himself. 492 00:27:58,040 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 2: Marsh is a man who can deliver him the war, 493 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 2: screw loose or not. Continuing his work for the Irregulars. 494 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 2: Part of Doll's assignment is to romance his way through 495 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 2: a bevy of older, powerful, influential women. His dance card 496 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 2: is a who's who of American wealth and privilege. Elizabeth Arden, 497 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 2: the cosmetic superstar, Milicent Rogers, the standard oil Heiress, and 498 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 2: Evelyn Walks Maclin, the gold Mine Heiress. Doll's looks and confidence, 499 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 2: plus his background as a fighter pilot, help explain why 500 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 2: he's so attractive. To women, but he also just seems 501 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 2: to understand women in a way the most men, especially 502 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 2: men of that time, aren't capable of or don't care to. 503 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 2: Proof lives in his fiction, some of his most memorable 504 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 2: characters are female Sophie from the BFG Verrukos Salt and 505 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 2: Violet Beauregard from a certain chocolate factory, and of course 506 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 2: Matilda Wormwood. 507 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: These characters aren't just. 508 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 2: Unique and inventive, they've a Vonne ability and a truth 509 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 2: that his male characters often lack. Dahl also finds time 510 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,479 Speaker 2: for affairs that have nothing to do with espionage. One 511 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 2: of his most significant relationships is with the beautiful French 512 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 2: movie star Annabella. 513 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: She's deeply affected by the war. 514 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 2: Her brother had been shot and killed trying to escape 515 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 2: the Nazis, which may well have been what. 516 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: Bonded her in Dall. 517 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: When they meet, she's already married to someone rich and successful. 518 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 2: Like so many of Dahl's other girlfriends, Annabella's husband is 519 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 2: movie star Tyrone Power Power was one of Hollywood's first 520 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 2: action heroes. It's unclear how Dahl feels about cuckholding this 521 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 2: giant star, though honestly its possible Power doesn't even care 522 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 2: since the rumor is that he's having his own affair 523 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 2: with Judy Garland. 524 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: But as we'll see later, Dall. 525 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 2: Is drawn to women who are, were, or had recently 526 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: been in long term relationships with handsome movie stars. 527 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: Maybe it's an ego trip. 528 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 2: When a woman who's within Adonna celebrity chooses to be 529 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 2: with Doll instead. Dall credits Annabella with teaching him about sex. 530 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 2: Like Charles Marsh, she becomes a mentor. Dall stays in 531 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 2: touch with her for decades, often seeking her advice during 532 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 2: turbulent years and his future marriages. By a certain point, 533 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 2: it feels like Doll has dated or seduced every available 534 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 2: and unavailable woman in Washington. He's pooped, but British Intelligence 535 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 2: is not done with him. They agree, at least to 536 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 2: transfer him out of DC. For someone always seeking adventure 537 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 2: and looking for glamorous, beautiful women to spend time with, 538 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 2: Dall is sent to what will be his personal xanad 539 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 2: Manhattan of the nineteen forties. 540 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: The Irregulars have their New York offices on. 541 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 2: The thirty fifth and thirty six floors of thirty Rockefeller Center, 542 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 2: the same iconic Art deco skyscraper that will later house 543 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 2: this Tonight Show, Late Night and Saturday Night Live, which 544 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 2: seems like a super weird place to stash an organization 545 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 2: devoted to conducting spy work. Maybe operating out of thirty 546 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 2: Rock is partly a way to convince the book that 547 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 2: they're not doing anything too shady. After all, their public 548 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 2: goal is simply to promote British interests in America. Fascinating 549 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 2: side note, Doll is mesmerized by the incredible speed of 550 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 2: the elevator at thirty Rock, which is unlike anything he's 551 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 2: ever experienced and becomes an inspiration for his Chocolate Factory sequel, 552 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: Charlie and the Glass Elevator. Dall instantly takes to the 553 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 2: glamorous scene. Despite the challenges of the war, the city 554 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 2: is still a hub of fashion and arts and nightlife. 555 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 2: This is the era of the Stork Club, with regulars 556 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 2: like Sinatra and Hemingway, the Copacabana, the Cotton Club, and 557 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 2: the twenty one Club. Doll dives in headfirst, ringing out 558 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 2: every last job of it that he possibly can. Amid 559 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 2: the champagne and midnight conversations, he finds himself even more 560 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 2: in his element than he'd been in Washington. Working even 561 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 2: more in his favor. The war has led to a 562 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 2: significant shortage of eligible men in the city, although my 563 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 2: wife would say there's always a shortage of eligible men 564 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 2: in the city, which I think is an insult to me, 565 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,479 Speaker 2: like if there were more eligible men that I wouldn't 566 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 2: have gotten so lucky. 567 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: I digress. 568 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 2: The point is Dall is even more in demand as 569 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 2: a romantic partner in New York than he'd been in DC, 570 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 2: which is saying something again. According to Marsh's daughter Antoinette, 571 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 2: Doll was very arrogant with his women, but he got 572 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 2: away with it. The uniform didn't hurt one bit, and 573 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 2: he was an ace. Girls just fell at Rolled's feet. 574 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 2: Dalla is still obsessed with figuring out what he's going 575 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 2: to do when the war ends. Going back to Buckingham 576 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 2: Shure is out of the question. His ambitions are coalescing 577 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 2: around storytelling. Keep in mind this is before he writes 578 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 2: the Gremlin story that gets him invited to FDR's White House. 579 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 2: Right now, Dolla is mostly writing short autobiographical stories, and 580 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 2: they're all rejected for publication. He grows incredibly frustrated, which 581 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 2: is mirrored in some of his later protagonists like Matilda 582 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 2: or James from the Giant who will themselves to greatness 583 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 2: despite being cruelly underestimated. Dall's first break as a writer 584 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 2: is one of those amazing stories of luck meeting talent 585 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 2: at just. 586 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: The right moment. 587 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 2: I truly love this origin story. Here's Dahl telling you 588 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 2: years later in Thrill Maker, a nineteen eighty five documentary 589 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 2: where he's interviewed during a visit back to Norway. 590 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 3: They wanted people who had been in combat to publish 591 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 3: stories in the American papers to give Britain a boost, 592 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 3: and a man was sent to me, a famous writer 593 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 3: called CS Forrester, who wrote Captain horn Blur stories. And 594 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 3: he can't see me, and he said, I will take 595 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 3: you out to lunch and you will tell me almost 596 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 3: exciting adventure in the RAF and I will write it 597 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 3: and it'll be published because I can always get them published, 598 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 3: and it'll be good for Britain. So I said, lovely. 599 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 3: I was terribly excited to go out to this famous writer. 600 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 3: I'd read everything you'd written. 601 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 2: CS Fourster isn't as much today, but the guy is 602 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 2: a giant in Doll's era. It's the equivalent of Aaron Sorkin. 603 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 2: Just swinging by my office and asking me to lunch. 604 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 2: As we've seen, Doll does not lack confidence, so he's 605 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 2: not as petrified going into that meeting as I would 606 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 2: have been. 607 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: He continues. 608 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,919 Speaker 3: We had lunch, and halfway through lunch we had roast 609 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 3: duck and he was trying to eat his, and I 610 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 3: was trying to tell him the story, and he was 611 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 3: trying to take notes. And I said, look, I'll go 612 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 3: home tonight and scribble this down roughly and send it 613 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,800 Speaker 3: to you, and you couldn't put it right, and that'll 614 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 3: be it too, that'll save you and you can eat 615 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:39,959 Speaker 3: your roast duck in a piece. 616 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,240 Speaker 1: And he said, our super So I did it. 617 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 2: You know what I love thinking about here? What if 618 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 2: Forrester hadn't ordered the duck. What if he'd had a 619 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: ham sandwich, and therefore a free hand to write notes. 620 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 2: What's about to happen might never have happened, and this 621 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 2: podcast would be about some other writer. It's these tiny 622 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 2: moments of chance, a roast duck rather than a ham sandwich, 623 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 2: but sometimes alter the entire trajectory of a life. 624 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 3: Doc continues, and it's funny to think when I got 625 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 3: home in the evening, and started writing it. It sort 626 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 3: of went very nicely, and I felt the story growing 627 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 3: under me, and so I wrote it and I sent 628 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 3: it to him. Didn't expect me hear anymore, And a 629 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 3: week later I got a letter from him saying, I 630 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 3: was expecting you to send me notes. You've sent me 631 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 3: a complete story. Did you know that you were a writer? 632 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 2: Did you know that you were a writer? When you're 633 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 2: starting out, hearing that you actually have talent and might 634 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 2: be able to do the crazy thing you dream of 635 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 2: doing from someone who's already made it is everything in 636 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 2: a completely different field. Jerry Seinfeld talks about doing one 637 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 2: of his first ever stand up sets when a much 638 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 2: more established comic, Jackie Mason, calls him over, telling Jerry 639 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 2: how jealousy is because Jerry is clearly going to be 640 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 2: a huge star. Seinfeld talks about that quick interaction with 641 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 2: Mason being enough to live off of for years. It's 642 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 2: a stamp of approval, and Forrester is true to his 643 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 2: word about getting the story published under Doll's name. His 644 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,760 Speaker 2: agent secures it a slot in the Saturday Evening Post, 645 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 2: which has a circulation of about three million at the time. 646 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,280 Speaker 2: Dolls paid one hundred and eighty seven dollars for the story, 647 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 2: which is like three thousand dollars today. It's printed over 648 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 2: two pages in the August first, nineteen forty two edition. 649 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 2: But all of that is frosting. Did you know you 650 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 2: were a writer? Is what will carry Doll for years. 651 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 2: Doll is now a published writer. He's twenty six years old. 652 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 2: In many ways, his life has just begun. The elation 653 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 2: of being published is soon tempered by a major change 654 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 2: in circumstance for Dol. As the war ends, Dolls informed 655 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 2: that his services in America are no longer required. He 656 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 2: hasn't seen his mother or sister in years. He takes 657 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 2: a deep breath and goes back to Buckinghamshire. The ghosts 658 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,919 Speaker 2: of his father and sister hang over the place. He's 659 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 2: been going from adventure to adventure, avoiding his home for years. 660 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 2: His mother, who can guilt trip with the best of them, 661 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 2: insists that her beloved only son move in with her 662 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 2: while he's in town, and for a time, it's not 663 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 2: as bad as Doll imagined. 664 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: According to Conint. 665 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 2: Again, Doll loses himself in the comforting rhythms of rural life. 666 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 2: He manages his mother's farm, tends to the livestock and 667 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 2: loafs now. I can't stress enough what a bunker's transition 668 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 2: this must have been. From international man of mystery seducing 669 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 2: his way across DC in New York on a Monday, 670 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 2: to a small town farmer living at home with mom 671 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 2: that Friday. Writer Martha Gellhorn, Hemingway's wife, visits Stall around 672 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 2: this time and says she perceives a suffocating atmosphere of 673 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 2: adoration by his mother. Doll soon begins gambling again, but 674 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 2: it's not Harry Truman sitting across the table anymore. He 675 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 2: gets into dog racing, which I mean has that ever 676 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 2: led to good things for anyone? He even breeds his 677 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 2: own greyhounds to compete, and shockingly loses a ton of 678 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 2: the family's money at the track. Doll is spiraling, his 679 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,240 Speaker 2: sisters start worrying. Will Dahl become one of those people 680 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 2: who is electric as a young man with the light 681 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 2: in his eyes and a world of potential. Then returns 682 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 2: from his adventures to drink, gamble, lose his hair, gain 683 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 2: a belly, and live at a ho hum existence in 684 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 2: his mother's basement, squandering all that youthful promise. Luckily for Doll, 685 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 2: his great mentor his obi one is watching. Charles Marsh 686 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 2: decides to intervene. He practically kidnaps Doll away from Buckinghamshire, 687 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 2: brings him to New York and puts him up in 688 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 2: his lavish townhouse on ninety second Street. If Dall had 689 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 2: been paying his own way, he'd more likely be in 690 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,360 Speaker 2: a studio apartment with roommates on the Lower East Side. 691 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,479 Speaker 2: Marsh insists on underwriting all of Doll's expenses until Dol 692 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 2: can start making his own money as a writer. That's 693 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 2: how strongly Marsh believes in him. I'm blown away by this, 694 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 2: and I think Doll is too. He basically puts it 695 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,720 Speaker 2: all in a book later on. It's Willy Wonka handing 696 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 2: over his factory to Charlie is an act of extraordinary 697 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 2: patronage from a mysterious older man of means to a 698 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 2: young man in whom he sees great promise. Marsh believes 699 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 2: in Doll's talent every bit as much as C. S. 700 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 2: Forrester did, and Lake Forrester Marsh has connections. Once Marsh 701 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 2: has got Doll in New York, he introduces the young 702 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,359 Speaker 2: writer to the most powerful magazine editor in town. 703 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: Harold Ross, the. 704 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 2: Eccentric, meticulous founding editor of The New Yorker. The New 705 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 2: Yorker then as it is now, is the ultimate destination 706 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 2: for short fiction. Despite his often brusque personality, Ross is 707 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 2: deeply committed to the writers he works with, nurturing household 708 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 2: names like Dorothy Parker, James Thurberr, and J. D. 709 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: Salinger. 710 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 2: Ross takes an instant liking to Doll's stories. This is 711 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 2: huge for Doll. The New Yorker buys several of dolls 712 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 2: stories in a row, including his now classic Skin, which 713 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 2: follows an old destitute man on whose back of famous 714 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,959 Speaker 2: artist wants tattooed to painting. When art collectors realize it's worth, 715 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 2: they offered the destitute man huge amounts of money for 716 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 2: his tattoo. The story then takes a really dark turn, 717 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 2: implying that the collectors intend to claim the artwork off 718 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 2: the man's back by any means necessary. The story explores 719 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 2: the intersection of art and commerce, exploitation, and the high 720 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,439 Speaker 2: personal cost of other people's greed, three themes that Doll 721 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 2: will return to in his work and in his private 722 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 2: life for decades. All of Doll's stories in this period 723 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 2: are dark twisty, witty, somewhat gruesome, and totally unique. And 724 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 2: this includes his gremlin story, which we discussed Eleanor Roosevelt 725 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,919 Speaker 2: loving so much. But all sorts of readers are going 726 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 2: crazy for the stories. The New York Harold Tribune writes 727 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 2: the Dolls developing something like a cult of fans. Doll 728 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 2: can't believe it's all happening. His old pal from the Irregulars, 729 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 2: Noel Coward, is also a little surprised, but for a 730 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 2: different reason, saying about Doll, the stories are brilliant and 731 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 2: his imagination is fabulous. Unfortunately, there is in all of 732 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 2: them an underlying streak of cruelty and macabre unpleasantness and 733 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 2: a crudely adolescent emphasis on sex. Coward continues, this is 734 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 2: strange because rold is a sensitive and gentle creature. Mixing 735 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 2: his gentle, sensitive side with his attraction to cruelty and 736 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 2: unpleasantness is, of course, what will make Dall more successful 737 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 2: and more widely read than Coward or any other living writer. 738 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 2: That is, if he can buckle down and focus on 739 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 2: his work. Because while we've heard Dahl spend his twenties spying, seducing, 740 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,879 Speaker 2: and manipulating his way across DC in New York. He's 741 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 2: about to fall prey to the seduction of something with 742 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 2: almost infinite alert. Doll, the master manipulator, is about to 743 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 2: discover for what it means to be manipulated by something 744 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 2: far more cunning than himself, something that will whisper promises 745 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:11,800 Speaker 2: of glory while slowly invisibly tightening its grip around his throat, 746 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 2: and right now he's walking straight into its embrace. The 747 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 2: Secret World of Roald Dahl is produced by Imagine Audio 748 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 2: and Parallax Studios for iHeart Podcasts. Created and written by 749 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,359 Speaker 2: me Aaron Tracy, produced by Matt Schrader, post production by 750 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 2: wind Hill Studios, with editing, scoring, and sound design by 751 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 2: Mark Henry Phillips. Editing by Ryan Seaton, Music by eight PM. 752 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 2: Executive producers Nathan Cloke, Karl Welker, Brian Grazer, Ron Howard, 753 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 2: and Aaron Tracy. Additional voice performances and recreation by Mark 754 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 2: Henry Phillips and Eleven Laps. If you enjoyed this episode, 755 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 2: be sure to rate and review The Secret World of 756 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,800 Speaker 2: Roll Doll on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 757 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 2: Copyright twenty twenty six Imagine Entertainment, iHeartMedia and Parallax