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Speaker 2: Slash audio A wellcome to tonight, you're at the volume?

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Speaker 2: Have you Monday? Everybody? Hope? All of you guys having

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Speaker 2: a great start to your week. Well. The pinnacle game

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Speaker 2: of the NBA Finals Tonight Gate Series tied at two

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Speaker 2: back in Oklahoma City and the thunder behind seventy one

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Speaker 2: combined points from Shake Gilgess Alexander and Jalen Williams take

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Speaker 2: a three to two lead in the series. Colin Coward

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Speaker 2: is joining us again. Colin, you and I talked last

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Speaker 2: after Game three. I believe about the rosters, and we

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Speaker 2: talked about how down the roster Indiana's pretty close in

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Speaker 2: terms of depth of talent, but at the top end

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Speaker 2: on Oklahoma City can be tough to contend with. And

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Speaker 2: I thought both JDub and Shay were brilliant tonight. What

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Speaker 2: were your thoughts on game five?

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Speaker 1: Oh, Jalen Williams is such an interesting player. So he

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Speaker 1: goes to a small college, Santa Clara, and you know

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Speaker 1: is a slow developing player. And the last part of

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Speaker 1: his game to mature was scoring. You know, he was long,

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Speaker 1: He worked really hard. I think both of his parents

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Speaker 1: were in the military, you know, class like hard working

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Speaker 1: no bs.

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Speaker 3: You know, you can see his game, you can see

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Speaker 3: the work.

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Speaker 1: He's put into it. Whenever you see a guy with

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Speaker 1: great touch around the rim. A lot of guys can

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Speaker 1: hit jumpers. Everybody had, you know, everybody sits in huge

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Speaker 1: jumpers all day at practice. But when I see a

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Speaker 1: guy that's elegant and soft around the rim, like that's work.

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Speaker 1: That is years of working in the gym, often by yourself,

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Speaker 1: and you know, so here's the guy small college developed

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Speaker 1: slowly comes into the NBA, and you and I have.

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Speaker 3: Talked about this.

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Speaker 1: I always thought, because Chuck Holmgrim was he's a really

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Speaker 1: good defender. First half the night he was incredible. And

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Speaker 1: I always thought, because his body type is so unique,

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Speaker 1: can you pay home gren sj and Jalen Williams And

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Speaker 1: I always thought they just keep homegrin. But his offense

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Speaker 1: is so all over the map, and Jalen Williams is

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Speaker 1: just such a natural easy score that you I just

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Speaker 1: feel like if I said for the rest of his career,

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Speaker 1: he averaged twenty seven and like, not all of them

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Speaker 1: are memorable. It's just he just fills the box, like

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Speaker 1: gets jumpers.

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Speaker 3: It's touch. It's just he's just such a natural easy score.

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Speaker 3: I don't even know if he has a go to move.

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Speaker 1: Almost every guy, Like if guys said, close your eyes

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Speaker 1: Jason twenty seven points a game. If I said Durant

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Speaker 1: or staff and I give you players, you can kind

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Speaker 1: of see the archetype of their offense, Like you can say, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's his move. That Halliburton's three with Jalen Williams. It's

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Speaker 1: just all over the place, threes, driving transition. I just

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Speaker 1: there's not a lot of guys in the league like him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, his power, I think is his signature. And I've

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Speaker 2: actually found this really fascinating because if you dig back

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Speaker 2: through NBA history recently, we're on like a decade plus

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Speaker 2: nowhere where power dominates in the NBA finals unless your

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Speaker 2: name is Steph Curry. Like, you go back and it's like,

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four, you know, Luca, Luca is the

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Speaker 2: best player in the playoffs. He brings a ton of

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Speaker 2: power to the position. Twenty twenty three, it's Jokic obviously,

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Speaker 2: Stephan twenty twenty two, but in twenty one it's Yannis power.

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Speaker 2: Twenty twenty it's Lebron power. Twenty nineteen it's Kawhi power.

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Speaker 2: You go back again, more Steph Curry, but then it's Lebron,

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Speaker 2: it's dunkin in Kawhi. There's a reason why power thrives

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Speaker 2: in this setting, and it's because it gets super physical.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's you know, it's really fascinating to me.

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Speaker 2: I've talked about this concept with you before, but to me,

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Speaker 2: ball pressure in physicality on the perimeter in the NBA

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Speaker 2: is similar to me like a pass rush in the NFL.

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Speaker 2: And we see this so often in the NFL playoffs

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Speaker 2: where a pass rush gets hot and nobody can protect

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Speaker 2: quarterback and plays all breakdown within the first second and

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Speaker 2: a half after the snap, and it changes the entire

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Speaker 2: dynamic of a game. And that's the test you have

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Speaker 2: to pass with this Oklahoma City Thunder team, with this

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Speaker 2: Indiana Pacers team, with their ball pressure. These two teams

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Speaker 2: they pick you up full court. They're super physical, and

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Speaker 2: it's the powerful guys that thrive. I mean, you don't

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Speaker 2: think it's a coincidence that TJ McConnell was awesome again

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Speaker 2: tonight because he brings power to the guard position. And

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Speaker 2: what Jdubb is is he is a big, strong wing

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Speaker 2: that brings downhill power. And you're right, like I would argue,

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Speaker 2: J Dubb's you know, skill, talent, imposition on the game

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Speaker 2: is his versatility. He's just really good at everything. You

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Speaker 2: look at other power players from the wing, like look

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Speaker 2: at Jaylen Brown from the Celtics, nowhere near the passer

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Speaker 2: that Jadub is and the processor that Jadub is. JDub

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Speaker 2: brings this mix of downhill power with shot making from

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Speaker 2: all three levels, the soft touch around the basket, the

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Speaker 2: mid range pull ups, the three point shooting, but also

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Speaker 2: the playmaking to boot. And then he's also been a

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Speaker 2: guy that's been one of the most important defensive players

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Speaker 2: for the Thunder all season. He is, to me, the

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Speaker 2: definition of the type of player that's going to thrive

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Speaker 2: in the playoffs for a long time. A strong forward

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Speaker 2: that can do everything. He is the Jimmy Butler of

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Speaker 2: this era.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's one of those guy. Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about his comp tonight, and he's got

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler.

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Speaker 3: He feels, you know.

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Speaker 1: He he's only about six five and a half, like

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Speaker 1: he plays bigger than his size, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: his length and his touch. But I really thought the

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Speaker 1: story of the game wasn't SGA. I thought the story

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Speaker 1: of the game was Holmgren's defense. First half around the rim,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the Pacers probably missed eight chippies. And then

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Speaker 1: I thought in the second half, every time they got close,

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Speaker 1: it was really j Dubb that hit a shot, and

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Speaker 1: I mean, so did SGA. But I was like encouraged.

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Speaker 1: I thought the fact that Indiana got it down to

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Speaker 1: two or three. I was like, this is impossible. This

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Speaker 1: is not winning this game, you know, without Halliburton to

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Speaker 1: be pretty competitive in the second half, I think speaks

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Speaker 1: well to Indiana. I think they'll play willy competitive basketball

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Speaker 1: in Game six. You know, I think we've kind of

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Speaker 1: established defense wins championships. And I thought the last three

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Speaker 1: minutes of the last game and tonight, early and late,

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Speaker 1: it's just we're seeing this defense. Like you say, they

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Speaker 1: clog you up and suffocate you on the perimeter. You

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Speaker 1: drive sort of sometimes out of control because you're just

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Speaker 1: they got a body on you, and then you throw

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Speaker 1: up kind of a wild shot, and it's often met

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Speaker 1: with resistance at the rim. Even the follow ups to

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Speaker 1: your misses, even the follow ups are contested. There's just

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Speaker 1: length and Hartenstein and home grin and bodies. So I

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Speaker 1: think we're seeing and I talked about this the other

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Speaker 1: day with JAMAC on the air. When we have historically

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Speaker 1: great defenses against great offenses, defense usually wins.

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Speaker 3: It's just disruptive.

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Speaker 1: We've seen Patrick Mahomes blown out twice in his career,

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Speaker 1: both in Super Bowls when he couldn't be protected. I

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Speaker 1: feel like Indiana's just has just been disrupt and they

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Speaker 1: without Haliburton at full strength, they just don't have a flow.

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Speaker 3: There's no flow to their offense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought Shaye was great again tonight. I thought,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's been interesting. He's had a couple of

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Speaker 2: higher scoring total games in this series. He had thirty

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Speaker 2: five in Game four. Didn't think he was particularly great

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Speaker 2: in that game, Dad, I think he had thirty four

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Speaker 2: in Game one. I didn't think he was particularly great

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Speaker 2: in that game. But in this game you could tell

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Speaker 2: right out the gates he was making that concerted effort

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Speaker 2: to keep his teammates involved. Colin, they only attempted sixteen

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Speaker 2: threes in Game four. They had seventeen three point attempts

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Speaker 2: just in the first half tonight because of the better

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Speaker 2: floor game that Shaye was playing, keeping everybody involved. But

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Speaker 2: every time I think about this Thunder team, it is

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Speaker 2: the defense that I'll remember, Like when people talk to

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Speaker 2: me about this Thunder team, I will remember them as

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Speaker 2: a defensive juggernaut, and like it's the two layer approach,

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Speaker 2: and you described it perfectly. It is the physical ball

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Speaker 2: pressure that causes you to rush and panic that is

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Speaker 2: then layered by the rim protection and it even extends

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Speaker 2: beyond shell or beyond shed, like she several times tonight

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Speaker 2: deflections around the basket because he's got super long arms

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Speaker 2: down there. You know, Chet to me is like kind

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Speaker 2: of the secret sauce of this defense though, because you

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Speaker 2: know Colin, we saw a great example in the Houston

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Speaker 2: of Golden State series in round one. You can have

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Speaker 2: really good perimeter defenders, but every team needs to have

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Speaker 2: big guys on the floor because big guys are a

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Speaker 2: part of basketball, right, Like he can't just go out

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Speaker 2: there and play five guards. You'll have all sorts of issues.

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Speaker 2: And big guys are targets. They are the point at

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Speaker 2: which every offense tries to get into your defense by

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Speaker 2: attacking your big guy in pick and roll. And Chet

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Speaker 2: is just this freakish weapon because he can do all

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Speaker 2: the big guy stuff in terms of length around the rim,

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Speaker 2: but he can also switch out onto the perimeter and

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Speaker 2: guard these guards, and so it's like the it's like

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Speaker 2: the ace in the hole for this thunder defense is

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Speaker 2: like a lot of times you'll fail the first test,

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Speaker 2: like when Pascal hit that three to make it ninety

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Speaker 2: five ninety three. From that point forward, Indy could barely

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Speaker 2: get the ball across half court without turning the ball over,

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Speaker 2: so like their guards can do an insane amount of damage.

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Speaker 2: But it's like, even if you pass that test and

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Speaker 2: you get through the ball pressure and you move the

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Speaker 2: ball through their defense and you get something around the rim,

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Speaker 2: it's just arms everywhere that you're dealing with at the

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Speaker 2: rim and all of those misses, all of those contested

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Speaker 2: rebounds that they came down with. Oklahoma City's defense is layered.

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Speaker 2: It's frightening. It wears you down. I mean like Indy

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Speaker 2: was right there and they let go of the rope

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Speaker 2: for like ninety seconds and they're down thirteen points. And

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Speaker 2: I'm with you, as we had the game six, I

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Speaker 2: think Indiana always is going to have a chance at

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Speaker 2: home with the energy Oklahoma City's young we have discussed

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Speaker 2: on this show. Oklahoma City on the road is not

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Speaker 2: the same team. But I thought Indiana's chance to win

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Speaker 2: this series was to win the home games because I

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Speaker 2: just think Oklahoma City can lay like leverage their athleticism

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Speaker 2: at home in a way that Indy just can't match.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and again Halliburton's hurt. It's not the same team'd

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Speaker 1: be like taking you know to some degree SGA out.

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Speaker 1: So I thought Caruso again tonight, I mean they forced

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Speaker 1: twenty three turnovers the thunder did think about that. Indies

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Speaker 1: a team all year that didn't turn the ball over,

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Speaker 1: like Halliburton doesn't turn the ball over. So you take

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Speaker 1: Halliburton out a lot tonight and it looks really sloppy,

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Speaker 1: really fast. Again, They're They're just a special team, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think you know, Indiana is a surprise to be here.

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Speaker 1: And the West is much better than the East, and

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Speaker 1: so like in the football, the AFC is much better

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Speaker 1: than the NFC. So the AFC becomes much more predictable

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Speaker 1: because you have four or five elite teams Chiefs, Bills, Ravens,

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Speaker 1: and I think the West is more predictable because you

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Speaker 1: have like Oklahoma City has the leading scorer and the

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Speaker 1: best defense, and Denver has the best player in the world,

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Speaker 1: and the Warriors have the Steve Kerr and at Draymond

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Speaker 1: and Butler and Steph and you kind of know what

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Speaker 1: you're getting in the West, whereas in the East it's

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Speaker 1: like who's healthy and who's hot. So Indiana just flies through.

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Speaker 1: But I will say, is so I think the East

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Speaker 1: is wide open and I think Indiana's.

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Speaker 3: Pop or now.

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Speaker 1: They were in the Eastern Conference finals last year, but

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Speaker 1: I mean they flew through Milwaukee, flew through Cleveland, controlled.

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Speaker 3: New York, and we're two.

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Speaker 1: Two with this team. And I think some of the

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Speaker 1: trade that Memphis and Orlando made was Orlando going, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the Knicks don't have a coach, Tatum's hurt next year,

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Speaker 1: why can't we do in Indiana? We got sugs, we

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Speaker 1: got BN Caro, we got Wagner. Let's go get a

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Speaker 1: Western player whoeverage is nineteen, he may average twenty two

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Speaker 1: over here. And I think I think Orlando looked at

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Speaker 1: Indiana and thought, why not us. I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they don't have a guy that scores over twenty. BN

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Speaker 1: Caro could be first team All NBA next year. So

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Speaker 1: I think when I watch Indiana, I think they're they're

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Speaker 1: they're encouraging. They've got young, astnding players, they've kind of

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Speaker 1: meshed together in the East, and you're like, Okay, it

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Speaker 1: was one thing when Boston was.

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Speaker 3: Winning with a stacked roster.

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Speaker 1: Indiana, I can't in I think I said it during

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Speaker 1: the Boston Orlando series. I'm like, man, they're about a

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Speaker 1: year away from being really really good. So I think

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Speaker 1: Indiana is one of those teams that may not make

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Speaker 1: it back and it may just be lightning in a bottle.

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Speaker 3: I really like them a lot, but I.

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Speaker 1: Think okay See is historically special defensively and we're seeing it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the the East to me feels wide open in

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Speaker 2: a different way where I agree with you. Like the

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Speaker 2: Boston was like this clear number one out east, but

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Speaker 2: then you had this like group of three four teams

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Speaker 2: that you knew were going to be in the mix,

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Speaker 2: you know, Milwaukee, New York. That was the mix that

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Speaker 2: we knew was going to be at the top. But

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Speaker 2: now with Boston kind of dropping out of that group,

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Speaker 2: it does feel wide open. Like Eveland is very good,

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Speaker 2: but everyone knows they're beatable, Like the Bucks will be

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Speaker 2: there if Giannis is still there, but like we know

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Speaker 2: that they're beatable. The Knicks, we know that they have

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Speaker 2: their flaws and their issues. They have a front court

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Speaker 2: that you can attack defensively, and I think what the

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Speaker 2: Pacers have demonstrated in a lot of ways is that

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Speaker 2: you can, you know, OutKick your coverage, so to speak,

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Speaker 2: in terms of the talent on your roster when there

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Speaker 2: is a great deal of one that the coaching that

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Speaker 2: maximizes the talent. But the second piece is from a

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Speaker 2: general management perspective, like actual complimentary pieces that fit and

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Speaker 2: accentuate each other. And that, to me is what I

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Speaker 2: look at with the Desmond Bain trade, because like, your

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Speaker 2: initial reaction when you see that sort of thing is

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Speaker 2: to go four first round picks unprotected, Like, my goodness,

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Speaker 2: that's a steep paycheck, and like I get that on

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Speaker 2: the surface, and ultimately whether or not that ends up

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Speaker 2: being worthwhile will be whether or not this team has success,

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Speaker 2: and if they have success, they make the finals. No

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Speaker 2: one's going to care about those four first round picks.

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Speaker 2: It's about whether or not this pays off. And Desmond

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Speaker 2: Baine is a perfectly complimentary player to what those two

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Speaker 2: guys do. Is he is one of the best jump

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Speaker 2: shooters in the NBA. Among fifty eight players this year

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Speaker 2: to attempt at least five hundred jumpers, he ranked twelve

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Speaker 2: in efficiency.

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Speaker 3: By the way, Colin and the Magic couldn't shoot last year.

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Speaker 3: That's what they couldn't do.

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Speaker 2: They couldn't shoot. By the way, you want to know

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Speaker 2: his number one on that list, Kevin Durant Kevin Durant

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Speaker 2: is still the best jump shooter in the NBA. I

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Speaker 2: thought that was interesting when I was digging into the data.

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Speaker 2: But he specifically shot sixty percent from the field on

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Speaker 2: shot attempts coming off of off ball screens. So when

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Speaker 2: he comes running off of action off the ball, he

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Speaker 2: knocks it down at an extremely high rate. He shot

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Speaker 2: fifty two percent on threes specifically coming off of off

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Speaker 2: ball screens. The magic could not create space for Palo

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Speaker 2: in Franz. That was the problem the Desmond Bane in Memphis,

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Speaker 2: they so desperately needed him to hit shots because he

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Speaker 2: was their secondary shot creator. It was a little bit

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Speaker 2: too much for him. But in this setting next to Franz,

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Speaker 2: next to it's more important for him to be able

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Speaker 2: to create openings for them. His ability to shoot on

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Speaker 2: the move, shoot it out of screens, shoot off the dribble. Specifically,

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Speaker 2: in the context of Franz and Paolo, you're going to

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Speaker 2: get as a force multiplier rather than a diminishing return.

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Speaker 2: And that really is the key. Like when I'm looking

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Speaker 2: at talent, it's like they could have gone and got

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Speaker 2: Bradley Beal and maybe that's a player that you think

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Speaker 2: is maybe a higher regarded player in the league or

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Speaker 2: something like that. Desmond Bane's talent fits perfectly with those

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Speaker 2: guys in a wide open conference, and that's a huge, big,

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Speaker 2: strong team that should be able to cause a lot

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Speaker 2: of damage with their physicality. And the last thing I'll

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Speaker 2: say about it, Colin, Desmond's not the best defender in

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Speaker 2: the world, but he's pretty solid. Jalen Suggs is the

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Speaker 2: best guard defender in the world, and so he will

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Speaker 2: never have to guard the best guard on the other team.

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Speaker 2: He's gonna be in favorable matchups, He's going to be

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Speaker 2: surrounded by physicality. His skill set perfectly matches what Franz

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Speaker 2: and Paolo do. I think it was a type of

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Speaker 2: swing that could legitimately put them in the finals. And Colin,

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Speaker 2: you're the one who's always preaching this on your show. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it was expensive, so was Kawhi for the Raptors in

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. At a certain point, you got to push

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Speaker 2: your chips in the middle if you want to try

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Speaker 2: to win well.

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Speaker 1: And I again, I think Orlando looks at it and thinks, Listen,

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Speaker 1: Baine's like twenty five or twenty six years old.

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Speaker 3: It's like Oklahoma City.

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Speaker 1: You don't have this aged star, you don't have this

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Speaker 1: one gigantic paycheck. It's like everybody's pulling in the same direction.

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Speaker 1: Like did they bring in Hartenstein. He's a starter but

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Speaker 1: like kind of a role player but great energy, and

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Speaker 1: everybody welcomes them in, Like everybody that like Baine. I

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Speaker 1: was watching the videos today when he got to Orlando.

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Speaker 1: The guys were like, it's it's like he's one.

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Speaker 3: Of the guys.

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Speaker 1: He's a young guy who, by the way, because he

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Speaker 1: was in Memphis behind Jahn Morant, probably didn't get appreciated

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Speaker 1: a lot or a lot of attention. And Bain was

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Speaker 1: the more mature player, the more consistent player, the more

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Speaker 1: available player.

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Speaker 3: And the better shooter.

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Speaker 1: But John Moran it's great for highlights, so Bain gets overlooked,

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Speaker 1: but not by smart GM. So Bain's probably like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: now I get into a more you know this is

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Speaker 1: I mean Sugs, the Gonzaga guy, Bnkaro, Duke, Guy Vogner's

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Speaker 1: at Michigan guy like there, these are grown ups.

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Speaker 3: They're ready to play.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, I think we talked about this in

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Speaker 1: the Boston series. It was like two or three times

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Speaker 1: you and I were like, what the hell is this

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Speaker 1: series so competitive? Like like Orlando can't shoot, Boston takes

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Speaker 1: the most this shit. We should have some blowouts and

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Speaker 1: we didn't. The games were really competitive. We felt that

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Speaker 1: way about the Knicks and the Pistons too. It's like,

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Speaker 1: what Scott kid Cunningham's really graduated to another class. And

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Speaker 1: so I liked it, and I also just aggressive wins.

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Speaker 1: Go get Katie and Golden State the Lakers, you know,

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Speaker 1: trade for gasol, trade for Shack. Take big swings. Absolutely

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Speaker 1: poor Zingis and Drew Holliday. Boston, like, you have to

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Speaker 1: take swings in this league because you're not going to

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Speaker 1: be able to bank these stars. You're not gonna have

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Speaker 1: the Heetls, You're not gonna have Katie to the Warriors.

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Speaker 3: So what you're gonna do is, can.

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Speaker 1: You get a group of really good B plus A

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Speaker 1: minus guys that all fit and Orlando fits Bain literally

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Speaker 1: fits perfectly with a team. Yeah, it'd be better if

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Speaker 1: it was two first not four, but those are gonna

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Speaker 1: be low first round picks.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, so I can live with it.

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Speaker 1: Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world

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Speaker 1: of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range

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Speaker 1: of programming that goes beyond the game, from action pack

401
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Speaker 1: live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries to hard

402
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Speaker 1: hitting investigative pieces and in depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams.

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Speaker 1: com to find your cable channel.

407
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 2: And there's like this. The splitting the different two timelines

408
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 2: approach comes with its own shortcomings. Like obviously, Golden State

409
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 2: was very fortunate on the strength of Steph to win

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two, but they've been paying the price

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Speaker 2: for not cashing in on some of their assets over

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Speaker 2: the course of the of the last few years. I

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Speaker 2: feel like Dallas is kind of staring down the barrel

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Speaker 2: of a similar type of situation. Like you got to

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Speaker 2: capitalize on the value that ad brings to the table

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Speaker 2: if you want to have sustained success around Cooper Flag

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Speaker 2: and like I just look at it as I look

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Speaker 2: at it as just an aggressive move that fits perfectly.

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Speaker 2: Desmond Bain has grown a lot too as a passer

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Speaker 2: coming off of screening actions, and I look at that

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Speaker 2: as something like a simple dynamic in the NBA that

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Speaker 2: can cause all sorts of problems. Is if you can

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Speaker 2: run a two man game where they don't want to switch.

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Speaker 2: And the problem is is when Franz and Pallo are together,

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Speaker 2: they get guarded by similar players, big strong forwards, and

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Speaker 2: with Jalen Suggs, he never shot the ball well enough

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Speaker 2: for teams to really account for him in those actions.

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Speaker 2: If you, as Desmond bain As one of the best

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Speaker 2: shooters in the league, come flying off of a screen

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Speaker 2: with Pawlow, you have no choice but to either switch

431
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 2: or to show, in which case Powlo will get better matchups,

432
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 2: He'll get more smalls to attack, He'll get more openings

433
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 2: to attack. I think it's just a really, really smart fit.

434
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 2: John Moran, on the other hand, gonna be twenty six

435
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,439
Speaker 2: years old at the start of next season.

436
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 3: How are you like?

437
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 2: I want to hear your take on the John Morant

438
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 2: Memphis situation.

439
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: Okay, so I feel vindicated, So I have been. This

440
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: has been one of my strongest NBA takes forever, which

441
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: is if you're under six to four in this league

442
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 1: and have the ball in your hands a lot. If

443
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:40,959
Speaker 1: you cannot shoot John Wall, you know, Westbrook, Derek Rose,

444
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: John Morant, you're gonna have to drive to the basket

445
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 1: against bigger players and you're going to get hurt more often.

446
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: If you're Steve Nash or Steph Curry and can shoot,

447
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,959
Speaker 1: it can prolong your career. You can do at you know,

448
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: you don't have to drive. You get a lot of

449
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: no contact looks. And my take on John Morant was yes,

450
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: I so it was said. I thought he was a

451
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 1: poor man's Dereck Rose. He's about fifteen pounds less than

452
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: Derreck Rose. And you know, I understand the NBA.

453
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 3: Media, he's a highlight player.

454
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: Forget the maturity for a second, which is I'm never

455
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: too hard on guys about maturity. I'm much tougher on

456
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: football players because they're twenty three and twenty four years old.

457
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: You bring twenty two year old, you bring eighteen nineteen

458
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: year old guys into the NBA, Okay, they're gonna screw

459
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: up like the first couple of years. Just just build

460
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: in a really bad decision. Now with Jaw it was

461
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: worse than that. But for me, it wasn't the maturity

462
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: stuff because he's a kid. It was okay, he's wildly

463
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 1: he's wildly entertaining. He's an incredible highlight player, but he's

464
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: not an effective shooter. And by the way, the last

465
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: several years it's gotten worse and he's hurt more so.

466
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 3: He has aged very quickly.

467
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: So I've never been a fan of hyper athletic guards

468
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: that aren't particularly good shooters. Now, Westbrook was so athletic

469
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: that he could be a poor shoe. And you know,

470
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: he's bouncing around the league now, but he Eire's just

471
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 1: not a lot of Westbrook's historically, and Westbrook mostly is healthy.

472
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 3: He's a sturdy he has a running back. Jaw's not

473
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 3: I mean, what's job one eighty.

474
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: You know, one seventy eight, So he's spindily. So I

475
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: just it's not that I wasn't a fan. He was

476
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: a spectacular talent. But I think everybody in the league

477
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: thought Zion and Jaw were going to take it over,

478
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be a it's gonna be bang Caro

479
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 1: and SGA and these players. I mean, it's just it's

480
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: just interesting how much maturity and hard work matters, you know,

481
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: JDub Sga home grun I mean, it's just like really focused, driven,

482
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: aspirational players. And I think it was just too much,

483
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: too soon for him, and he got banged up. And

484
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: I think Memphis, by the trade, is telling you we're

485
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: going to start over. We're going to start and it's

486
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: the right move. They can't compete. We knew it this year.

487
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: It's the right move by Memphis. I actually like what

488
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: Memphis did. It's just they won't be very good for

489
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: a couple of years.

490
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

491
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 2: You know, we were talking about power earlier, and the

492
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: one example of a guy who succeeded despite a lack

493
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: of power is Steph And Steph is both a great

494
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 2: shooter and someone who has been consistently available to his team.

495
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 2: He's been healthy and and the tricky thing with like

496
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 2: John's gonna be twenty six years old at the start

497
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: of next season, and he's just straight up not as

498
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 2: good as he was three years ago. Like not as good,

499
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: he's just not as good as a bad at basketball,

500
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 2: And like, this is the age twenty six to twenty

501
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 2: seven is typically the age when players peak, like Tatum

502
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: best season of his career right at this age. This

503
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 2: is the age when everyone seems to kind of figure

504
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 2: it out. It's where it's kind of where like the

505
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 2: meeting point of the mental part of the game and

506
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 2: the physical part of the game. And from this point

507
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 2: forward it's kind of like a trade off. You get

508
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 2: a little smarter, a little more skilled, but you get

509
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 2: a little less athletic. This is the peak, right and instead,

510
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: like his scoring volume has like in twenty twenty two,

511
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: takes his team to within two wins of the conference finals,

512
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 2: he's going head to head with Steph talking shit to

513
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: him having such a great breakout playoff run. And ever

514
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 2: since then, his scoring volume has dropped every season since

515
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: that year, his efficiency has gone down. He just posted

516
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 2: his two lowest games played totals of his career in

517
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 2: the last two seasons. He's played fewer games in the

518
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: last two years than he did three years ago combined. Like,

519
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 2: it's been a downward trajectory. And so if you're Memphis

520
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 2: and you're looking at it, you just got four unprotected

521
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 2: first round picks from Orlando. There still is some young,

522
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: exciting talent on the roster, some guys like Gigi Jackson

523
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 2: that are interesting, Zach Edy that's interesting. They have guys

524
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: in house that they can continue to develop and be fun.

525
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 2: But they can bring in a massive trove of draft

526
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 2: picks by trading Maranton Bain and just doing a full pivot.

527
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 2: Not to mention Jaron Jackson, who I think carries a

528
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: great deal of value somewhere around the league, and so

529
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 2: I look at it as like a basically it's a

530
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: turning point for John Rant. You either got to commit

531
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 2: to him or you've got to get off the ship,

532
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 2: and the trade is a clear sign that they're going

533
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: to get off the ship. Not to mention like they

534
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 2: might look to trade KCP. I wouldn't be surprised if

535
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 2: KCP gets moved to a contender at some point in

536
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 2: the next season. I think it's just Memphis looking at

537
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: their situation and going like, we're sick of being in

538
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 2: this business.

539
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 3: It's so.

540
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: Jaw is such a cautionary tale. When you look at

541
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: at big stars that explode and then and then fall

542
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: off and don't eventually rise to the level, it's always

543
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: kind of a maturity thing. It's almost always that like

544
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: you just couldn't handle a spot, like like Zion couldn't

545
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: handle his weight. Wasn't terribly focused player. Zion I thought

546
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: was a tremendously just massive torque. There's just nothing like him.

547
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: I thought Joe was spectacular. But I think it's it's

548
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I like nil as kids are

549
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: going to stay in college and they're going to be

550
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: surrounded by non basketball players and they're going to be

551
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: coached hard, and they'll go to class and it's like

552
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: a it's a it's a big broad life beyond just

553
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: basketball and a G league. So I think, and I've

554
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: talked about this multiple times, I think Nil's were going

555
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: to help the NBA and college basketball and you're gonna

556
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: get more guys. The Auburn player who j Mack loves.

557
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: Auburn's got a guard that's explosive. He's coming back to Auburn.

558
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: He could play in the NBA. It'll make him a

559
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: better NBA player and a great college player. So and

560
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: some of these European guys now are coming over to

561
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 1: college basketball. So I think the coaching in college basketball

562
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: has always been excellent, sometimes almost too dogmatic, right, like

563
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: it's just so coach oriented. But I look at Jaw

564
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: and I think the story of Jaw is a little

565
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: too much too soon and just wasn't quite ready for

566
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: the stage. I mean, there was a moment in time

567
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,959
Speaker 1: where you thought, for about a year maybe two, you're like, oh,

568
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: he's gonna be the face of the league. I mean

569
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: that was about three years ago, and then it all

570
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: just unraveled. And I don't think we need a face

571
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: in the league. I thought he for a while looked

572
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: like it. He just wasn't ready for it. It's a

573
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: lot to ask and he wasn't ready for it.

574
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what happens in this league. It's success

575
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 2: is so short lived because people are coming for you.

576
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 2: You know, Like Jannis looks like he climbs the mountaintop

577
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, looks like he's going to launch

578
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: this new Nope, here comes Jokich and he's the problem.

579
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 2: It's like Jah looks like he's about to climb the

580
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: mountaintop in twenty twenty two. Shay and Ant have both

581
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: lacked him since they've kind of reached their collective ceilings,

582
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: and like, I think, you know, I do believe in

583
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: John Morant. I do. He has a supreme athletic trait

584
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 2: in the ability to get downhill. He actually is an

585
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: underrated shot maker close to the rim in terms of

586
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: like his floater and like little short stuff, I do

587
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 2: think there's somebody that should probably consider taking a bet

588
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: on him, a chance on him. As I look around,

589
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 2: and you know, we're gonna talk about KD here in

590
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: a second and KD as we're gonna talk about it

591
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: in more detailer in a second. But the Athletic has

592
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: reported that Katie is preferring the Spurs, which we'll get

593
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 2: to in a minute. But like Houston, if Houston can't

594
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: get KD, Like, would they consider a guy like John Morant?

595
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 2: Is there a team out there that has the that's

596
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 2: in a tough position that can afford to take that

597
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: kind of risk, maybe a Sacramento a team that's been

598
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: kind of stuck in mediocrity, Like, is there a team

599
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 2: out there that is willing to take a risk on

600
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: a guy like him? Because I do think the upside

601
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 2: is their calling. Like I I've seen a lot of

602
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,959
Speaker 2: stuff over the last couple of days ranking him at

603
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: various points in the league, and I do think when

604
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: he's healthy, he's still like a right around the fourteenth

605
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: or fifteenth best player in the NBA because no one

606
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 2: can keep him in front. He is an extremely talented player,

607
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: That's the frustrating part is that it hasn't come together.

608
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 2: But I do think that there's some somebody out there

609
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: that's going to take a chance on him. But ultimately,

610
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: whether or not it works out is going to whether

611
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 2: or not Jaw actually makes the changes that he needs to.

612
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: Like you, got to improve, Like you, you have to

613
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: develop as a jump shooter to take it easier on

614
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 2: your legs. If he develops as a jump shooter, it

615
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: will make his downhill drives more dynamic and less frequent,

616
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: which will help him stay healthier and available to his team.

617
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 2: There is a real upside there, he just hasn't been

618
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: able to capitalize on it. Colin, what are your thoughts

619
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: on the report that Kevin Durant prefers the Spurs. I

620
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: was not a huge fan of this fit. We were

621
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: talking last week about how Wemby being very thin, KD

622
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: being very thin, even deeron Fox is. He's a super

623
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 2: fast guard, but he's not a power player. Not a

624
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: lot of power on that roster. Colin, what are your

625
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 2: thoughts on KD potentially going to the Spurs?

626
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: Well, I mean to me, wem Bin Yama and Stefan

627
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: Castle are the are the team. Like, that's nothing against

628
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: de Aaron and Vassal, but I think those two guys

629
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: are all stars, one of them all NBA. So and

630
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: I think they're just getting better fast.

631
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 3: I think.

632
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: I'm always cautious to say Kevin Durant doesn't fit anywhere.

633
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: I think he fits everywhere. Like my wife always says,

634
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: says like salt works with everything, you know, Like like

635
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: like my son was a chef. My stepson's like, yeah, Bacon,

636
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: Grease and butter work with everything. That's Kevin Durant. Like

637
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: you can just find a spot for a guy who's

638
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: the best jump shooter at any given juncture in the league.

639
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 3: So and I.

640
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: Also think Kevin it just kind of figures it out.

641
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 3: You know.

642
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: I don't always like his decision making on teams, but

643
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: even in Brooklyn, he was the one thing I liked

644
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: about it. He was the one thing I mean in Arizona,

645
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: in Phoenix, it was Bradley Beale that drove us nuts.

646
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant was giving me twenty six and twenty seven.

647
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: I'm not disappointed with him. I've been disappointed with you know,

648
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: his like team selection, but I just kind of feel

649
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: like he's water, Like he just he just kind of

650
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: floats and finds his level and I think he'll fit anywhere.

651
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: And I also think you got really smart between Chris

652
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: Paul and de Aaron Fox. You know, you have good

653
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: guiters on that team, like really smart guys, and.

654
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 3: You can be a.

655
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: Really flawed team if you're intelligent. We've talked about the

656
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: Miami Heat like one of the smartest teams in league history.

657
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: It's like Alan Lebron Way Bosh Battier Haslam, It's like

658
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: she's high functioning. They didn't have a center. Chalmers drove

659
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: everybody crazy. Wade and Lebron kind of had duplicate games,

660
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, they got the four straight finals,

661
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: like they just figured shit out right.

662
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 3: And I kind of feel like.

663
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: If you put Wemby and and and it's Fox and

664
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: it's you have to move off. I think Harrison Barnes

665
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: we talked about before. I think it was the but

666
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I just think Kad would work. I think

667
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: it would just work.

668
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 3: I think it. I think Houston needs him more.

669
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 1: But I mean I think he looks at Houston and thinks,

670
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: all right, like like sanm Goon, Yeah, i'man Thompson is

671
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 1: he a great offensive player, yet he's more of an

672
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: athlete defensive player.

673
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 3: I don't know.

674
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 1: I think Katie's smart and looks at it and just thinks, man,

675
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: I could have bad shooting nights and we could score

676
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: one twenty eight in San Antonio. Like I think that's

677
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: how he looks at it. Maybe I'm wrong, you know,

678
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: I want to be clear.

679
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: Just because I say it's not my favorite fit doesn't

680
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: mean it can't work. Like I'm a big believer in

681
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: don't overthink things, like don't overthink Kevin Durant next to

682
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 2: Victor wibin Yama and Darren Fox, like they're gonna score

683
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 2: a lot of points and they're gonna be able to,

684
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 2: uh to get a certain number of stops. There's I

685
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 2: there is you were just talking about with Desmond Baane.

686
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: There's a reason Desmond Baynes shooting is so incredibly valuable

687
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: in the Orlando context on a team that not only

688
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 2: doesn't have a guy who can make jump shots, but

689
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 2: doesn't have a guy who can make jump shots off

690
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 2: the move. So it's uniquely super valuable to that team.

691
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: KD anchored by the physicality of Houston. I like the

692
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: kind of like force multiplier effect he could have there.

693
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 2: That said, even in the context of San Antonio, he's

694
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 2: obviously a massive upgrade. He's obviously gonna make them way better.

695
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 2: There's even like some interesting stuff you could look at

696
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 2: in the big picture. KD is like probably the best

697
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: shooting workout guy in the league, to pair Victor Webinyama with.

698
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 2: He's legendary for the quality of his shooting workouts, him

699
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: going game speed, him working on shots that are specifically

700
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 2: available in NBA games off of certain actions. KD is

701
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 2: like a legend in his workouts off the floor. Wenby's

702
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 2: going to be doing all those workouts with him, you

703
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 2: know he is, and it would lead to a certain

704
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 2: development terms of Wemby's big picture health. But it looks

705
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: to me more like less of a in immediate contender

706
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 2: juggernaut and more of like kind of a fun place

707
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 2: for Katie to end his career where he can get

708
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: right in hand in Wemby.

709
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: You know That's what I think. I think Katy looks

710
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: at it and thinks this would be fun. Is that

711
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be I wouldn't have to drop twenty eight points,

712
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: would come easy. And I think Katie looks at it

713
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: and thinks, Okay, dearon Fox, you know, wemby the structure

714
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: of the organization, they draft smart players. They don't draft

715
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: a lot of ego, they don't draft a lot of dummies.

716
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 3: I think Katie looks.

717
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: At himself and thinks, Okay, Houston's got this. There's a

718
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: lot of stuff in Houston that I'm not sure it's

719
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: ever going to be great in the playoffs. It's a

720
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: lot of hyper athleticism and length and running and I

721
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: and I and that's fun. But I think I don't

722
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: think at this point he wants to be a mentor,

723
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: right like I think he wants to go I'm gonna

724
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: go have some fun and play with really smart players,

725
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: highly functional players, and all put the pressure on me

726
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: to figure out where I fit, you know, like they

727
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: don't need him. I think Houston needs him. I think

728
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: the Knicks could really use him. So I think, you know,

729
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 1: I think for KD, it is I think it's perfect.

730
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: That would be fun. It would be fun for him,

731
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: and I think it would be fun for us.

732
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: It falls in line with the same ideology that led

733
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: him to Golden State. You know, like, to your point,

734
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 2: KD could win a title in Houston, but it would

735
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,959
Speaker 2: be a chore and offense would come very difficult. He'd

736
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 2: be facing crazy looks. Now, the flip side of that

737
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 2: is he wouldn't have to be the same statistical monster

738
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,959
Speaker 2: in Houston that he would be in other situations because

739
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 2: Houston's defense is so good that he would just need

740
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 2: to basically lift them over the top on the offensive

741
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 2: end of the floor. But there is something to be

742
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: said about basketball is more fun when the ball's moving

743
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 2: around and you're playing with more offensive skill and when

744
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 2: you like kd If there's one weakness at this point

745
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 2: in his career, he doesn't pressure the rim a ton

746
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 2: well dearon Fox, sure as hell does. So like he's

747
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: gonna get to playoff of those advantages and play off

748
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: the ball like there is a Katie has told us

749
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 2: to our faces exactly who he is for years. He

750
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 2: loves basketball and he wants to play a fun brand

751
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 2: of basketball. And so even if we look on it

752
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 2: and add it on paper and go, oh, Houston, big, strong,

753
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: physical team, they can anchor him with defense. Emy Udoka

754
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 2: is not the best offensive coach in the world. That

755
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 2: team doesn't have a lot of offensive talent. It would be

756
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 2: a lot like Oklahoma City in twenty sixteen, And I'm

757
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 2: thinking he looks at that and goes, I'd rather play fun,

758
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 2: free flowing basketball with some more talented offensive players. And

759
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 2: so with that being the case, I mean San Antonio

760
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 2: is going to be a really interesting team if they

761
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 2: pulled something like this off. All of a sudden, a

762
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: guy like Jeremy Sohan becomes super important because he'd have

763
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 2: to be such a defensive anchor for them in terms

764
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: of size and strength. Stefan Cassel obviously defensively as a guard,

765
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 2: would have to do a lot of that work. Again,

766
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that I would view that Spurs team

767
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 2: is exceptionally dangerous, But what a fun way for Wemby

768
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: to start his career and what a fun way for

769
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 2: Katie to end his career.

770
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: Well, I think also Katie looks at Lebron and thinks

771
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: Lebron's always figured it out is Lebron doesn't.

772
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 3: Want to do a lot of the dirty work.

773
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: Like if he went to Houston, Katie'd have to do

774
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: some of the dirty work. He'd be like, he'd be

775
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: like Steph in Golden State, where it's like, oh, Steph

776
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: plays poorly.

777
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 3: That's the narrative when they lose.

778
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: It's not Jimmy Butler, it's Steph In Houston, very quickly

779
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: he would be because because Jalen Green's a hot and

780
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: cold shooter, and very quickly if Houston loses, it's like, well, Katie,

781
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: you know, an off shooting night.

782
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: We traded for him. He was supposed to save us

783
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 2: from this.

784
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 1: That's right, and it's just not the case in San Antonio.

785
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: He'll be part. And I do think as players get older,

786
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: they're looking for fit, and you know it's it's and

787
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that. I think as I've aged, I've

788
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: always liked fit. It's just fun to be part of

789
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: a group, a mix of young and old.

790
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 3: But you don't want to be a mentor, like I

791
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 3: just don't think Katie.

792
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: At this point, I think fun is a really interesting

793
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: word because Kyrie is fun to play with. That's why

794
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: he went there and Golden State no longer because of relationships.

795
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: Wasn't he wasn't having a good time.

796
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 3: He was winning, and so yeah, I'm okay with it.

797
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: He's had an all time career. He's a different cat.

798
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: But you know, I've come to terms with not everybody

799
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: is the same. I really do think though, what you're

800
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: seeing right now in the NBA, I really like, and

801
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: I know we don't have a super team, but it's

802
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: becoming like the NFL. It's a very GM driven league.

803
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 1: Like the smart gms are going to win. A lot

804
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 1: of them are in the West, and they have been

805
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: for thirty years. That's why the West is overwhelmingly top

806
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: to bottom, always deeper than the East.

807
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 3: You just have more good owners and more good gms.

808
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: And the other thing is, I think what we've really

809
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: seen this there's a lot of maturity in the league

810
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: right now. Like Indiana and Oklahoma City. I mean, these

811
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 1: are grinding outfits. I mean I think Indiana plays pretty

812
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: good defense. I mean again, juxtaposition with Oka se juxtaposed

813
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: to that, well, it doesn't look the same. But there

814
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: was there was a in the second quarter in this game.

815
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: I was like, God, India has given them problems. So

816
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: I just I think the league right now it went

817
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: through a cycle where it felt kind of you had

818
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: old stars and two young guys like you know, and

819
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 1: you had these Jaws and these zions.

820
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 3: It's like they're just not ready.

821
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: I just feel like we've got this group of Halliburton

822
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: and SGA and Jalen Williams and and it's just like

823
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: really good Tatum, really good young players totally dedicated to

824
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: the league, and fewer and fewer old guys are relevant.

825
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: And I think it's I don't It may not get ratings,

826
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: but I I'm I really like okay see in Indiana,

827
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,760
Speaker 1: Like I really respect top to bottom both organizations.

828
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 2: The point about maturity is is a good one because

829
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 2: these two teams are relatively young, and young teams young

830
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 2: young NBA teams famously don't play defense because young guys

831
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 2: in general, it takes time for them to learn how

832
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 2: to prioritize how they spend their energy. But yeah, I

833
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 2: you know, I'm I'm I'm generally pretty happy with the

834
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 2: trajectory of the NBA. Every era in the NBA has

835
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: some stars that are a little bit more boring, you know,

836
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 2: like for instance, to meet Shake Shae's like the guard

837
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 2: version of Tim Duncan. He's not the most exciting player

838
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: in the world for me to watch, but he's incredibly

839
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 2: dominant at his position. But we do have musty television,

840
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 2: like I think Wemby is mussy television. I think Anthony

841
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: Edwards is musty television. There are certain guys in this

842
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 2: league that bring the pop, and so we just need

843
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 2: to take some time over the next couple of years

844
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 2: for the public to kind of ingratiate themselves with these guys.

845
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 2: And I'm still a big believer in the NBA. There's

846
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 2: stuff they need to clean up, there's certain things that

847
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 2: can get better. It's not perfect. I wish they'd shortened

848
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 2: the season a little bit, but like this has been

849
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 2: a fun playoff front, Colin, I've really really enjoyed it,

850
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 2: and the Pacers have like reinvigorated my love of basketball

851
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: in a real way just because of the just the super,

852
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 2: super fun brand of basketball that they've play. I've really

853
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 2: really enjoyed it. But Colin, we really appreciate you giving

854
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 2: us your time tonight. Man, you met For all of

855
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 2: you guys that are hanging out on the YouTube tream,

856
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: we are headed over to play back when we're done,

857
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: so playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight. We'll take some

858
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 2: callers and watch some film.

859
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 3: Colin.

860
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: Was good to see you, buddy, and we'll see you

861
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 2: next time. What's so, guys, As always, I appreciate you

862
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 2: for listening to and supporting Oops tonight. They would actually

863
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 2: be really helpful for us if you guys would take

864
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 2: a second and leave a rating and a review. As always,

865
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could

866
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 2: take a minute to do that, I really appreciate it.

867
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: The volume