Speaker 1: Coming up next on This is Gavin Newsom. I'll be
Speaker 1: talking to legendary Republican polster and communication strategist Frank Luntz.
Speaker 1: We'll be talking about the state of the Democratic Party,
Speaker 1: Trump's first hundred days, and perhaps most importantly, the state
Speaker 1: of our union.
Speaker 2: This is Gavin Newsom and this is Frank Lunz. You
Speaker 2: look casual, you know, Frank, I wanted to dress up
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 3: By the way, throughout all of this, you've been the
Speaker 3: most interesting person to me. I haven't always agreed, You've
Speaker 3: always been really kind to me. And even though we've disagreed,
Speaker 3: I've enjoyed that. It's not even been a back and forth.
Speaker 3: You're just a good guy.
Speaker 2: I love that, man. I appreciate that. Now.
Speaker 1: You know what, Let's start right there, because you know,
Speaker 1: we're at a point where we're not none of us
Speaker 1: are talking like that. I mean, you've been studying this
Speaker 1: stuff for decades and decades. I've been listening to you lately.
Speaker 1: I mean, you think it's as bad as it's been
Speaker 1: in our lifetime, meaning we're at each other's throat. This
Speaker 1: country has never been more divided. Is that an overstatement
Speaker 1: or is that about it?
Speaker 3: That's exactly it. And to me, and this is what's
Speaker 3: frightening about it, is that we want to fight, we
Speaker 3: want to argue, we want to disagree. We're looking at
Speaker 3: a reason to be able to say I'm insulted or
Speaker 3: worse yet, I'm offended. And that's the kind of culture
Speaker 3: that we're in right now, and no one's trying to
Speaker 3: get us out of it. And they give Corey Booker
Speaker 3: credit because for most of his twenty five hours it
Speaker 3: was uplifting, it was talking about real people, real concerns,
Speaker 3: and he did in a way that isn't political. And
Speaker 3: I think the guy who cut him off, the guy
Speaker 3: who jumped to that to make sure that he would
Speaker 3: always be remembered, Juck Schumer, is so far past his
Speaker 3: cell by date because he doesn't really understand that now
Speaker 3: we're playing with fire.
Speaker 1: So, Frank, I want to talk about Corey because I
Speaker 1: was struck by how complimentary you were of his twenty
Speaker 1: five hour speech. But I want to go back a
Speaker 1: little bit about you know, you've been studying this, you've
Speaker 1: been focused on this, You've been I mean, you've been
Speaker 1: a leader in this space and understanding communication, understanding emotion,
Speaker 1: understanding nature of relationships, not just the relationship to one
Speaker 1: another politically through the lens of ideology. But has this
Speaker 1: been I mean, has this been decades in the making.
Speaker 1: Is there a moment that you would mark that sort
Speaker 1: of led to this moment? And you know, what's your
Speaker 1: sort of over under in that respect.
Speaker 3: The moment that it started was the day that New
Speaker 3: Kingridge got elected Speaker in nineteen ninety four, because that
Speaker 3: was Republicans winning something that they know had not won
Speaker 3: for forty years, and the Democrats didn't like it and
Speaker 3: never got used to it. And Gingbridge was provocative. He
Speaker 3: pushed you, He prodded you in an intellectual basis. Times
Speaker 3: he used language that hurt himself. If you remember that
Speaker 3: Christmas of nineteen ninety four, they had on the front
Speaker 3: page of Music magazine the king Bridge that stole Christmas. Well,
Speaker 3: you're going to get negativity if that's how the media
Speaker 3: treats you. Now go forward to Bill Clinton's impeachment and
Speaker 3: the feeling that what he did, while horrific and inappropriate,
Speaker 3: did that really rise to the level of impeachment. Now
Speaker 3: go forward to two thousand and now going George Bush
Speaker 3: actually tying and how one side some people on that
Speaker 3: one side never never awarded Bush the presidency and always
Speaker 3: said that the election was stolen. And then go forward
Speaker 3: to twenty ten and the rise of the Tea Party
Speaker 3: and twenty sixteen to the rise of Trump. We've been
Speaker 3: going through this now since nineteen ninety four, five or
Speaker 3: six different moments, and here's the issue to me. In
Speaker 3: almost all those moments, there were calm heads. There was
Speaker 3: somebody who would say enough, in the next cremation point,
Speaker 3: just stop doing this, just shut the hell up. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you may be right, but the country is more important.
Speaker 3: And now there's no one's doing that. There's no one
Speaker 3: saying it. There's no one. Look, I'll say this to you,
Speaker 3: and I like you. I said this, I really do,
Speaker 3: and people will make fun of me saying it. But
Speaker 3: when you conscious stuff the resistance I had exploded. You're
Speaker 3: the opposition, but you're not the resistance. You're you're the
Speaker 3: challenge should check as a governor. But that's very different
Speaker 3: than saying I'm going to oppose everything that you do.
Speaker 3: And I just feel like we've reached the point on
Speaker 3: every side. I want to emphasize this. On every side,
Speaker 3: they were insane and now are countries at stay. I
Speaker 3: really do believe that a democracy is at static right now.
Speaker 1: No, I appreciate that. And also, you know, it's interesting
Speaker 1: just this notion of resistance. When we did a special session.
Speaker 1: What was remarkable to me is what I did not say,
Speaker 1: but was what was attributed to me as it relates
Speaker 1: to the purpose of that special session. After Trump won,
Speaker 1: we talked about an open hand, not a close fist.
Speaker 1: That never got any attention. Folks focused on that in
Speaker 1: the context of sort of a zero sum, which I
Speaker 1: think is so much of the politics. But I want
Speaker 1: to go back a little bit just because nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: four and it sort of marks a little bit of
Speaker 1: your history. And you know, just for folks that don't
Speaker 1: know you, as well as folks like myself that have
Speaker 1: been following you for decades and decades, you've been traditionally
Speaker 1: aligned with Republican causes, and you were aligned with gin
Speaker 1: Ridge as it relates to that nineteen ninety four effort,
Speaker 1: as it relates to that effort to take back the House,
Speaker 1: as you say, for the first time in forty years,
Speaker 1: and that contract with America, that infamous contract with America
Speaker 1: you worked with Gingridge, did you not sort of helping
Speaker 1: develop the language around that. Do you separate that from
Speaker 1: what came after his successful ascendancy.
Speaker 3: It's the best, truthfully, it's the best thing I've ever done.
Speaker 3: I should have quit while I was ahead, because it's
Speaker 3: the first time that elected officials actually put an agenda
Speaker 3: on the line. What was important to that contract was
Speaker 3: what they were going to do in the first hour
Speaker 3: and first day, which is something that still politicians need
Speaker 3: to tell voters they want to know. Second is that
Speaker 3: it itemized it ten different issues, from balanced budgets to
Speaker 3: term limits, to fighting crime, to welfare reform, to tax
Speaker 3: tax reform, all the issues that matter to people. And
Speaker 3: then there was an enforcement clause. If we break our promise,
Speaker 3: throw us out. We mean it with a one eight
Speaker 3: hundred number to keep track of them. It was the
Speaker 3: first time that anyone had offered accountability. And of course
Speaker 3: the Democrats demonized it. They called it the Contract on America.
Speaker 3: They were wrong, and the voters said they were wrong,
Speaker 3: and in the endless feet let's keep the record straight here,
Speaker 3: only forty percent of Americans ever heard of the contract
Speaker 3: on election day, a minority of voters, but those who
Speaker 3: heard of it had a four to one positive rating
Speaker 3: towards it, which is unprecedented. And it made a difference
Speaker 3: in the Key States because it got Republicans to run
Speaker 3: for something, not against it. And God, I don't know
Speaker 3: what they call you, Gaviner, governor, but governor. The issue
Speaker 3: now is that no one runs for something. No one
Speaker 3: tells you what you're for. They tell you why the
Speaker 3: other guy's wrong, the other guy's evil, and the other
Speaker 3: guys should be defeated. And this is a really important
Speaker 3: conversation to have, and I'm glad that you're hosting it.
Speaker 3: And by the way, you've taken more shit than anyway
Speaker 3: we're bringing out. I would not have brought on Steve Bannon.
Speaker 3: Steve Bannon scares me. I knew him before he was
Speaker 3: Steve Bannon and before I was Frank Luntz. And the
Speaker 3: guy is he scares me. But the fact that you're
Speaker 3: willing to have these open conversations to engage with people
Speaker 3: who you don't agree with, why is it? Why aren't
Speaker 3: more people doing this? Why don't we have more civil
Speaker 3: conversations designed to expose the truth, the relentless pursuit of
Speaker 3: the truth. What is so wrong about this? You sir,
Speaker 3: You've been criticized for doing this, and I'm telling people,
Speaker 3: shut the hell up and listen. You might learn something.
Speaker 3: Why are we I'm sixty three now and you can
Speaker 3: hear it in my voice and how these have been
Speaker 3: some very tough months for me. I'm learning more in
Speaker 3: these months than I've learned in the last sixty years
Speaker 3: of my life. Why are we so sure that we're
Speaker 3: right and they're wrong? Why are we so sure that
Speaker 3: we don't pick up another book that there's no reason
Speaker 3: to read it, to explore, to question, and to challenge.
Speaker 3: This is why I teach at West Point. This is
Speaker 3: why I'm wearing this shirt, because I'm meeting with the
Speaker 3: best students and Governor. You got to come. The reason
Speaker 3: why I did this interview when I wanted to be
Speaker 3: face to face, so I wanted to invite you to
Speaker 3: West Point. Reach over, shake your hand because I know
Speaker 3: then you have to go. There are more cadets from
Speaker 3: California than any other state.
Speaker 2: Love it.
Speaker 3: I want you to see the best and the brightest,
Speaker 3: and the most ethical, and the most devoted and the
Speaker 3: most civil. They say yes, sir, no, ma'am, thank you.
Speaker 3: They're appreciative of their country, and they're willing to give
Speaker 3: the greatest sacrifice for it, just as you and I
Speaker 3: can have a civil conversation. Please come to West Point
Speaker 3: and meet the best Californians you'll ever meet.
Speaker 1: No, I appreciate that in full disclosure, you invited me
Speaker 1: and Wes Moore, Governor Moore from Maryland at the National
Speaker 1: Governor Association. We were there and you asked if we
Speaker 1: were available. The two of us had a privilege of
Speaker 1: doing a little roundtable with you where you did a
Speaker 1: mini focus group with these guys and they were asking
Speaker 1: us questions and that was a special I know for Wes.
Speaker 1: And we left that meeting, Frank, I mean, these guys
Speaker 1: to your point next level, inspired by their service, their
Speaker 1: civic mindedness, their sense of duty and patriotism. It really
Speaker 1: touched I know, both Wes and I, and so I
Speaker 1: appreciate your firm commitment to those young men and women
Speaker 1: that are truly among the best in the brightest.
Speaker 3: And they loved you because the two of you didn't
Speaker 3: agree on everything, and you talked with each other with
Speaker 3: civility and respect. You had different approaches to some of
Speaker 3: the biggest issues facing the country, and they were so
Speaker 3: thrilled the two of the most important governors in the
Speaker 3: country would give them an hour. And I want to
Speaker 3: give you credit for this. You promised me twenty minutes.
Speaker 3: You stayed for an hour and ten, Governor, thank you
Speaker 3: for that. They noticed it, they appreciated it, and I
Speaker 3: want viewers to know that you give a shit.
Speaker 2: Frankly, no, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: And look, I think you know, they'd sort of distilled
Speaker 1: the essence of I think the path back and getting
Speaker 1: out of this mucket. I want to go back, though,
Speaker 1: just a little bit, frank on your journey, because I'm
Speaker 1: really fascinated by this, and I appreciate your firm defense
Speaker 1: of the contract with America in the context of look,
Speaker 1: having a plan, having an agenda, of being transparent about
Speaker 1: it as you're running, and then having some accountability framework
Speaker 1: and in the merits and the demerits of that, I'm
Speaker 1: interested in. But moreover, I'm just interested in your own journey.
Speaker 1: I mean, you were out there working not only for
Speaker 1: causes supporting Gingridge, but obviously other Republican causes, as I
Speaker 1: referenced in helping messaging and languaging for George Bush, and
Speaker 1: you worked the pro campaign a little bit Giuliani and others.
Speaker 1: Was there a point in your own journey, were you real, man,
Speaker 1: this is not going well for this country that even
Speaker 1: you started to sort of soften the edges started to
Speaker 1: reach out to the other side.
Speaker 3: Well, I was always curious, and it was Tom Dash
Speaker 3: who brought me in and I created it. I have
Speaker 3: not talked about I've never talked about this. Actually, I
Speaker 3: don't even know if you know what I'm about to say.
Speaker 3: I created a phrase, the Dashal Democrats, and these are
Speaker 3: people who acted one way in Washington and a different
Speaker 3: way back home. And Tom Dash was one of the
Speaker 3: most ethical people I ever knew, still around. He's a
Speaker 3: really special human being. But I demonized him using that
Speaker 3: dastional democrat. And it was John McCain who came up
Speaker 3: to me and said, do you really have to do that?
Speaker 3: Can't we find a way to disagree without labeling people.
Speaker 3: McCain a Republican dressing me down and Tom and John
Speaker 3: McCain's tough, and he disagrees with you, he tells you it,
Speaker 3: and you have to scrape yourself back to together and
Speaker 3: somehow leave the room with your tail between your legs.
Speaker 3: And I felt really bad about that. And Dash was
Speaker 3: the first person to bring me to a Senate Democrat meeting.
Speaker 3: This is maybe around two thousand, I'd say maybe two
Speaker 3: thousand and two. And I presented to them and I
Speaker 3: remember dan On Barbara Boxer, California senator giving me a
Speaker 3: hard time around the table, and he leaned over to
Speaker 3: me and he said, let it go. And it was
Speaker 3: the best advice I ever got. Because she was ideological,
Speaker 3: she's very political, very in your face, wanted to take
Speaker 3: you on because she believed in what she believed in
Speaker 3: and wanted you to know it and wanted to bring
Speaker 3: you over to her side. So here's the weird thing.
Speaker 3: How I handled her that day and how we got
Speaker 3: to know each other afterward, and again we don't agree
Speaker 3: on anything. And invited me into her last campaign, and
Speaker 3: I said to her, do you know who I am?
Speaker 3: Do you know what I believe?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: What the hell? And I talked to her chief of
Speaker 3: staff saying this is wrong, And she actually was serious
Speaker 3: about it. She wanted someone on the team to be
Speaker 3: a check, to be a challenge. She wanted that perspective
Speaker 3: and she felt that her own team wasn't doing it.
Speaker 3: So she said, I trust you, and trust is the
Speaker 3: most important thing you can have, and to me, it's
Speaker 3: the truth. The truth, relentless pursuit of the truth. We
Speaker 3: have to be engaged in that. And I said no,
Speaker 3: but I really appreciated the invite, and we still talked.
Speaker 3: I think, you know this, Barack Obama on national television
Speaker 3: told House Republicans that their retreat and it caused me
Speaker 3: from time to time. And they're all saying, So he
Speaker 3: begins to conversation by saying, I see Frank Luntz right there.
Speaker 3: He's taking notes, and at that moment, I'm freaking out
Speaker 3: because I am. He says, he's trying to figure out
Speaker 3: how to defeat me, how to make Nancy BILLOWSI look bad,
Speaker 3: and that's exactly what I'm doing. All I could think
Speaker 3: of is a camera behind me shooting my computer, so
Speaker 3: I reach over pulled it down slowly so people would
Speaker 3: think I had anything to hide, and they're all cheering me,
Speaker 3: the House Republicans around me way to go yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: And then he says, but you know, Frank and I talk.
Speaker 3: We have conversations. I listened to him and he listens
Speaker 3: to me. And then the same people around me are
Speaker 3: now booing me shame, how dare you? And this is
Speaker 3: the kind of relationship that I've had to American politics
Speaker 3: over the last twenty five years. Just because we disagree
Speaker 3: doesn't mean we can't have really deep, philosophical, solution oriented
Speaker 3: conations over a meal, over a cub zero. It doesn't
Speaker 3: mean that we can't or shouldn't engage. I'm going to
Speaker 3: out someone in this conversation. I've had some very serious
Speaker 3: doubts about where our country is going. And the person
Speaker 3: I shared that with more than anyone else wasn't a Republican.
Speaker 3: It was Michael Bennett of Colorado, because he had the
Speaker 3: same doubts. And I don't want to embarrass him or
Speaker 3: embarrass myself, but those conversations were so meaningful to me.
Speaker 3: We would book sessions for fifteen minutes that would go
Speaker 3: on an hour. My office knew, don't schedule when you
Speaker 3: go see Michael Bennett, Senator Bennett, don't schedule for an hour,
Speaker 3: and his office finally figured out the same. So, Governor,
Speaker 3: to a lesser extent, you and I have done that
Speaker 3: to a much lesser extent. But in the times that
Speaker 3: we've gotten together, I listened to you. I listened to
Speaker 3: your ideas. I listened to your solutions. I listen to
Speaker 3: your leadership where I read your speeches, and I frankly
Speaker 3: wish we known each other better, because where California goes,
Speaker 3: the rest of America goes. If we get it right here,
Speaker 3: we're going to get it right nationwide. Then we get
Speaker 3: it wrong here, it's going to have an impact. I
Speaker 3: appreciate you probing because that's a story I've never told
Speaker 3: publicly before.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: By the way, do you remember what notes you were
Speaker 1: taking when Obama called you out?
Speaker 3: Yes? It was what the Republicans needed to say about Pelosi,
Speaker 3: and it's that she doesn't engage with America. She doesn't
Speaker 3: know America. She knows her Democratic friends in Congress, and
Speaker 3: what do they know about America. I was trying to
Speaker 3: draw the distinction between a Washington Democrat, which I've always done,
Speaker 3: and an American Democrat who's out there in the out there,
Speaker 3: in the real America, working for a living, making ends meet.
Speaker 3: That was the beginning of my playing around with the
Speaker 3: phrase paycheck to paycheck, and I was doing a whole
Speaker 3: list of all the things that Pelosi or Obama was
Speaker 3: saying that didn't not relate to America. And you know what,
Speaker 3: I never gave Republicans that list.
Speaker 1: Interesting speaking of you know, just that list and looking
Speaker 1: back and as you study the effectiveness and Obama sort
Speaker 1: of in return, respecting the fact that you're a student
Speaker 1: of your craft, you're always your sort of open argument,
Speaker 1: interested in evidence when you look back over the last
Speaker 1: you know, forty to fifty years, who you think have
Speaker 1: been the most effective communicators and why I assume Obama
Speaker 1: is on that list or is he not?
Speaker 3: From your perspective, he's on that list. And there's a
Speaker 3: specific speech that everyone I ask everyone to read because
Speaker 3: it's the best speech I've ever seen a present give.
Speaker 3: And remember I'm supposed to say Ronald Reagan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was waiting for that, Frank, it's not.
Speaker 3: It's Barack Obama's speech in Sama, Alabama on the anniversary
Speaker 3: of what happened on the em and Petis Bridge and
Speaker 3: I have been made aware of this by John Lewis,
Speaker 3: And I'll tell you another story again. By the way,
Speaker 3: all my stories are with Democrats, now with the Republicans.
Speaker 3: John Lewis invited me to join his trip, his civil
Speaker 3: rights trip a few years before he passed away and
Speaker 3: in every single location and everyone who spoke. He came
Speaker 3: over to me, sat down and told me why this
Speaker 3: was significant. And I kept saying to him, Sir, you've
Speaker 3: got eight members of Congress here, you had Jack Kemp,
Speaker 3: who is the presidential candidate. You're far more important. People.
Speaker 3: Stop wasting your time. He puts his arm around me,
Speaker 3: and I may may get choked up, he says, because
Speaker 3: they're going to forget this place and you're going to
Speaker 3: remember it. Of all the people here, it's going to
Speaker 3: have the biggest impact on you, and so I need
Speaker 3: to have the biggest impact on you. I'm not wasting time.
Speaker 3: This is an investment. And you know what I'm telling
Speaker 3: you that that story now it came true. I tell
Speaker 3: people repeatedly how essential it is for all of America
Speaker 3: to see Selma and Birmingham and Montgomery, not to read
Speaker 3: it in the history books, not to see the documentary,
Speaker 3: but to go there and see it. And sure, I
Speaker 3: wish my voice was better because you're memorializing this, but
Speaker 3: that was the most impactful weekend of my political life.
Speaker 3: And to open me up to things I did not understand.
Speaker 3: It turned me into a mentor to a number of
Speaker 3: young African American boys, in some cases did not have
Speaker 3: fathers to direct them, and who the hell am I
Speaker 3: to give them any to give them any wisdom? But
Speaker 3: they stayed with me. After that experience, I knew what
Speaker 3: I wanted to do, and they gave me the grace
Speaker 3: to say things I shouldn't say and to make mistakes,
Speaker 3: and I gave them the respect to teach me. And
Speaker 3: those young men are now in their early thirties, and
Speaker 3: every one of them is successful. Every one of them
Speaker 3: is doing amazing things. And I would not have engaged
Speaker 3: them when they were nineteen if John Lewis had not
Speaker 3: engaged me earlier in my career. So I have to
Speaker 3: admit I don't know what the question was in.
Speaker 2: The spirit, and I love it.
Speaker 1: I mean, anytime we can talk about John Lewis is
Speaker 1: worth the time. But you were talking about Barack Obama
Speaker 1: and that moment in that speech, and how you think
Speaker 1: that stood out to you as one of the greats.
Speaker 3: And there have been other ones that have been just
Speaker 3: like that. Tony Blair is to me the best speaker
Speaker 3: and not even American.
Speaker 2: Yeah, former Prime Minister UK, And I've.
Speaker 3: Said this to him within the last forty eight hours
Speaker 3: that of everyone alive today, no one can have a
Speaker 3: bigger impact. No one knows and understands the global implications
Speaker 3: of where we are and what we're doing, and how
Speaker 3: we need to get out of this mess before we
Speaker 3: make it any worse than Tony Blair. And my biggest
Speaker 3: political regret is that he was with the Labor Party
Speaker 3: and I couldn't work for them because I was a conservative,
Speaker 3: And in reality it was what Blair's focus and what
Speaker 3: he tried to achieve is very similar to what I
Speaker 3: try to do. He only does it one hundred times better.
Speaker 3: And the effort that he's made in the Middle East
Speaker 3: and in Africa to try to bring about understanding. He's
Speaker 3: a statesman statesman, so he's he would be number two.
Speaker 3: I want to give Corey Booker credit because so many
Speaker 3: of Booker's speeches are so impactful. And Wes Moore, but
Speaker 3: let me give you one more. I get on the
Speaker 3: Democratic side, and that's Mitch Landrews. Yeah, Mitch landrew is
Speaker 3: the single bed and you're not bad. But Mitch Landry
Speaker 3: is the best retail politician I have ever seen.
Speaker 2: He's good. I agree with him.
Speaker 3: We're having lunch in a restaurant that's closed, and a
Speaker 3: woman comes in the door and she is frail and
Speaker 3: frazzled and crying, and it's right around the inaugurate. I've
Speaker 3: never seen anything like it. And they're trying to throw
Speaker 3: her out of the restaurant. And Landrew sees this and says,
Speaker 3: wait a minute. He puts his arms around her and says,
Speaker 3: what's your name, where are you from? How can I
Speaker 3: help you? And he calmed her down and he sat
Speaker 3: her down. He said to me, I need five minutes
Speaker 3: with her. And she left the restaurant and she was okay.
Speaker 3: And that's brilliant to me. Yeah, because that's rhetoric on
Speaker 3: a personal, individual, human scale. So Landrew is absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 2: I love that. So you've got to give me a Republican, Frank,
Speaker 2: I mean, we're going to lose credibility here. Who's I mean?
Speaker 2: You talked about Reagan.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people have talked about the difference
Speaker 1: between a great communicator versus a great orator? Is that
Speaker 1: a distinction worthy of exploration? Is that a distinction that
Speaker 1: could be made?
Speaker 2: Even some have made it as relates to Obama versus Reagan.
Speaker 2: What's your assessment.
Speaker 3: And you can't forget Bill Clinton either.
Speaker 2: And Clinton and.
Speaker 3: Well, here's the amazing thing. Ronald Reagan changed hearts and minds.
Speaker 3: People went from being Democrat to being Republican because of Reagan.
Speaker 3: And that's where he deserves significant credit. To me, Gingrich,
Speaker 3: when he was optimistic and positive, was incredibly powerful. And
Speaker 3: I have to go back to Jack Kemp, who's no
Speaker 3: longer with us. Jack Kemp was an amazing orador because
Speaker 3: he saw the good and the great in America. He
Speaker 3: was about freedom, he was about opportunity, very much an
Speaker 3: economic communicator. And for the social issues and the cultural issues.
Speaker 3: For me, it would be Bill Bennett, who's still with us,
Speaker 3: and the two of them, the three of them ging Rich,
Speaker 3: Camp and Bennett communicated what was great and good about America.
Speaker 3: But we just don't hear it anymore. Obviously, one of
Speaker 3: them has passed away, one of them is essentially out
Speaker 3: of politics, and the other one has gone full in
Speaker 3: on Trump and lost some of what made him so
Speaker 3: unprecedented in terms of an intellectual mind better than anyone
Speaker 3: ever met.
Speaker 2: All right, Ginger, you're talking about, yeah.
Speaker 3: The smartest elected official we've ever had. And he never
Speaker 3: got a chance to demonstrate it because the people around
Speaker 3: him and his own insistence on drawing your contrast between
Speaker 3: what he saw as good and evil undermine and eventually
Speaker 3: killed him as speaker. And if you ask me what
Speaker 3: my greatest regret is personally, it's not standing in front
Speaker 3: of him in a camera, getting in front of him
Speaker 3: and saying, serve, don't say that. It may be true,
Speaker 3: it may be intellectual, but the American people are not
Speaker 3: prepared to hear it, and they will turn against you
Speaker 3: if you say it. Newt was courageous in your face,
Speaker 3: and he could have done so much more for the
Speaker 3: country if someone had just said, don't do this because
Speaker 3: it will hurt your reputation.
Speaker 1: So you both and obviously sort he marks that moment
Speaker 1: as you reflect on where our politics today, and you
Speaker 1: can connect that. I'm curious, how do you how much
Speaker 1: do you connect Bill Clinton's success to UH to New
Speaker 1: Gingrich and that contract with America.
Speaker 3: Well, the best legislation that's passed in the last thirty years,
Speaker 3: this is the public saying it is welfare reform to
Speaker 3: force people on welfare to get jobs, to say to them,
Speaker 3: we will help you and we will not punish you.
Speaker 3: But the single best welfare program is a job that
Speaker 3: we hope will become a career and that maybe, if
Speaker 3: you're lucky, will become a calling, and that you should
Speaker 3: not if you're able to work, you should not be
Speaker 3: able to collect money because that's not fair to other taxpayers.
Speaker 3: And Gingrich pushed and pushed and pushed Clinton accept back
Speaker 3: to Way, and back to Way accepted, it voted into law,
Speaker 3: and if you ask the American people, that was the
Speaker 3: single best legislation of their lifetime because it did so
Speaker 3: much good for so many people.
Speaker 2: RK. I'm curious, and you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 1: Just we can go down the welfare conversation, which is
Speaker 1: fascinating to me. And I don't mean just to move
Speaker 1: off it, because I want to sort of reconnect and
Speaker 1: re engage and a deeper understanding of what you said
Speaker 1: a moment ago about the need to have someone that
Speaker 1: can speak in those aspirational tones, that has a strategy
Speaker 1: that is not only engaging, but is willing to engage
Speaker 1: people across the aisle. You've referenced on multiple occasions, and
Speaker 1: I want to get back to Booker, but your referenced
Speaker 1: Corey as well. But I'm curious, are we in an
Speaker 1: environment where we reward any good behavior whatsoever? Or is
Speaker 1: this an environment where there's even the city to do
Speaker 1: what you suggest must be done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're asking the correct question. I'm going to give
Speaker 3: you an answer that is correct, but it's not what
Speaker 3: I want to give, which is knowing not not in
Speaker 3: that environment. We punish people. The kinder you are, and
Speaker 3: the more we hate you, the more we think you're
Speaker 3: hiding something, the bigger your heart. We ask the question,
Speaker 3: what's the most important attribute in a governor? Kindness and
Speaker 3: combastion comes in second to last. Intelligence is at the bottom. Also, Wow,
Speaker 3: we're rewarding bad behavior. We're rewarding people and we want accountability,
Speaker 3: which is good behavior. We want someone who says what
Speaker 3: they mean, means what they say, and does what they say.
Speaker 3: That's all good. But that heart and that soul and
Speaker 3: that thing that's inside that allows us to feel people's pain,
Speaker 3: not only do we not reward it, we even punish
Speaker 3: even suggest that. That makes us soft. I want to
Speaker 3: point out because I would have forgotten and it would
Speaker 3: have been mad. Your debate with Ron de Santas, I'm
Speaker 3: on his side. Ninety percent of the time, and you
Speaker 3: out debated him, you outcommunicated him because you added a
Speaker 3: human develop a human component to it. Wait, go back,
Speaker 3: your viewer should go back and watch that debate. Was
Speaker 3: it just one on Fox?
Speaker 2: Yeah, just one with Sean Hannity.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Hannay was against you. You had a mine
Speaker 3: writer against you, you had your opponent against you, and
Speaker 3: you had an audience against you. Sir, you did incredibly
Speaker 3: well because you added the human dynamic to it, which
Speaker 3: is not going to get you nominated for president. It's
Speaker 3: not going to raise your approval rating for California. These
Speaker 3: are things that the public does not care about. The
Speaker 3: Democrats want you to beat up on Trump, right. They
Speaker 3: don't want you. They're not asking you for a better vision.
Speaker 3: They want you to take him on and punch him.
Speaker 3: I guess what that'll solve. Nothing that'll get us nowhere.
Speaker 3: And so there's stuff that I do. Now. The Republican
Speaker 3: side thinks I'm way too soft. Tucker Carlson calls me
Speaker 3: a traitor. And on the Democratic side, they don't trust
Speaker 3: me because they know where my background is, they know
Speaker 3: where my principles and my values lie. Right, and yet
Speaker 3: I'm right in the middle and I don't have a country.
Speaker 3: I don't have people that I can get behind. Where's
Speaker 3: Joe Manchin now he's out of office, ib the former
Speaker 3: governor of Maryland, Larry Hogan, Joe Lieberman, the Great Joe Lieberman,
Speaker 3: John McCain. These are a statesmen who are ridiculed and
Speaker 3: laughed at and condemned, and they were the best of America.
Speaker 3: And it's not a little bit of use, sir, and
Speaker 3: a little bit of me. It's that middle ground, the
Speaker 3: center of the screen, trying to get right there where
Speaker 3: we overlap. We're not trying to get there now, we're
Speaker 3: all on the edges and it's just showing the country.
Speaker 2: Frank.
Speaker 1: Is that because? I mean, society becomes how we behave
Speaker 1: we are our behaviors and everything we've talked about has
Speaker 1: happened quote unquote on our watch. And I say that broadly,
Speaker 1: not as an elected official, but as you know, as
Speaker 1: a father of four that lives in this state and
Speaker 1: wants to see a better future for my kids.
Speaker 2: Who's responsible? Are we responsible? Are elected officials responsible? Is
Speaker 2: it something more insidious? Are the algorithms responsible? I mean,
Speaker 2: what's your sense of the moment in and how do
Speaker 2: we I mean, we have to sort of it seems
Speaker 2: to me diagnose it more deeply to then begin to
Speaker 2: sort of work our way out of it.
Speaker 3: No, I'm not sure about diagnosing, because I think we
Speaker 3: all know. It's John McCain. When a woman stood up
Speaker 3: in a town hall and said that Barack Obama was
Speaker 3: a Muslim, McCain quietly and calmly and civilly said, no, man,
Speaker 3: that's not true.
Speaker 2: It's a great moment, great moment.
Speaker 3: In the debates between them. I remember in the two
Speaker 3: thousand and eight Republican debate that John McCain was cracking
Speaker 3: a joke about Hillary Clinton saying that she wanted to
Speaker 3: spend a million dollars to celebrate Woodstock. McCain didn't support it.
Speaker 3: He didn't even get to Woodstock. He was locked up
Speaker 3: at that moment, and everybody laughed. This is the We've
Speaker 3: lost that kind of campaign right now. We demonize each other.
Speaker 3: It's social media. But it's more than social media. It's
Speaker 3: the fact that moms will not take away the phone,
Speaker 3: will not unplugged the computer. I say this to every
Speaker 3: parent watching our grandparent. Your child is getting addicted as
Speaker 3: we speak. Your child is losing the ability to make
Speaker 3: independent decisions and thoughts and engage human beings in a
Speaker 3: real way because they're stuck on the web. And you parents,
Speaker 3: don't disconnect that computer, don't say you're not going to
Speaker 3: be on your phone. And I know how hard it
Speaker 3: is to be a mom. Right now, I know that
Speaker 3: your daughter's going to say to you, I hate you.
Speaker 3: I'm not coming to dinner. Better that she says she
Speaker 3: hates you than actually grows to do so because of
Speaker 3: social media.
Speaker 1: So you think at the core, I mean that has
Speaker 1: in more ways, on more days, that has more to
Speaker 1: say about why we're in this predicament that we're in.
Speaker 3: It's our behavior magnified ten times by social media. And
Speaker 3: then and I'm going to hold you the woman who
Speaker 3: I think wants to take your job, I'm going to
Speaker 3: hold her accountable as well.
Speaker 2: You're referring to Kamala Harris.
Speaker 3: Yes, we all know how Trump communicates to people. And
Speaker 3: I ask a very simple question, and I'm trying not
Speaker 3: to get canceled by him. But the fact is, you
Speaker 3: ask parents, you ask Trump voters do you want your
Speaker 3: children to talk the way Donald Trump talks? And they
Speaker 3: say no, they love him, they want his agenda. But
Speaker 3: they don't want their kids to sound the way that
Speaker 3: he does. And I know his response would be they
Speaker 3: as the most wonderful vocabulary. We've all put together videos
Speaker 3: of how he shoots sound reporters, how he calls them dumb,
Speaker 3: how he says it's not just a matter of being wrong,
Speaker 3: you're an idiot using that language. We don't want our
Speaker 3: kids to talk that way. But we also want our
Speaker 3: kids to tell the truth and to tell us what's
Speaker 3: right about themselves. Now, what's wrong about the opposition? President
Speaker 3: Harris never said what she was going to do in
Speaker 3: the first hour or the first day. Her ads against
Speaker 3: Trump were brilliant, and by the way she beat him
Speaker 3: in the debate, Oh yeah, she played him in the debate.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: And everyone thinks so, except Trump has polls that show
Speaker 3: that he won by thirty or forty or fifty points.
Speaker 3: He never showed them, We never saw them. But Vice
Speaker 3: President Harris had the opportunity to offer a different vision,
Speaker 3: and she never did. She told us what was wrong
Speaker 3: about Donald Trump and never told us what was right
Speaker 3: about herself. So she bears some of the blame.
Speaker 1: You're the master polster. Is that not what the polls
Speaker 1: said she needed to do in order to go out
Speaker 1: the vote, or did you reflect differently on your own
Speaker 1: analysis that they were looking for a compelling alternative vision.
Speaker 3: Did she never get they were looking for it? In
Speaker 3: the polling the publics that they didn't trust her. If
Speaker 3: you don't trust her, there's a reason why. It's not
Speaker 3: that they thought that she was a liar. Is that
Speaker 3: they didn't know where she was. They said this again
Speaker 3: and again in the CNN focus groups, in this stuff
Speaker 3: that was happening in the media, polls that were being done,
Speaker 3: not my stuff. Where does she stand on prices? What's
Speaker 3: she going to do? What is she going to do
Speaker 3: in immigration? What was her most famous comment during the campaign.
Speaker 3: It was her interview on the View and she said,
Speaker 3: I wouldn't do anything differently. How can you say that
Speaker 3: Joe Biden was aol, He was not there, he was
Speaker 3: not present, and there's nothing you would do differently. I
Speaker 3: recognize your need to be loyal. I recognize your desire
Speaker 3: not to fracture the Democratic Party. But the American people
Speaker 3: were struggling back then as they're struggling right now, and
Speaker 3: they needed to know what she would have done. And
Speaker 3: Governor I'm going to give you what she could have done.
Speaker 3: It was three weeks from the election. She chose not
Speaker 3: to go in Joe Rogan, she never engaged with Stephen A. Smith.
Speaker 3: These are people who listened to beyond traditional politics. They
Speaker 3: invited her, didn't go. And in the end she was
Speaker 3: on Anderson Cooper on CNN and he begins the town
Speaker 3: hall with immigration, and he's hostile to her. It's tough
Speaker 3: on her, and she should have said, and I quote Anderson,
Speaker 3: I can answer your questions. I can answer the questions
Speaker 3: of the American people sitting right in front of me
Speaker 3: right now, and I'm going to choose them. So let
Speaker 3: me do something I've not done before. Let me give
Speaker 3: you five minutes on exactly what I'm going to do
Speaker 3: in the first hour. What is the first piece of
Speaker 3: legislation I'm going to sign. Then I'm going to do
Speaker 3: the first day. And she would have this conversation and
Speaker 3: then Anderson would cut her off after five minutes, and
Speaker 3: she turned him and say, no, Anderson, I'm not done yet.
Speaker 3: The American people have the right to know what I'm
Speaker 3: going to do, and I have the responsibility to tell them.
Speaker 3: And for the next thirty minutes, says he keeps trying
Speaker 3: to jump in. She keeps saying to them, y'all like this,
Speaker 3: y'all want this, And of course he endsered b yes,
Speaker 3: And so she'd have this personal one on one engagement
Speaker 3: with one hundred people in the audience Anderson trying to
Speaker 3: get in, and that would have elected her president.
Speaker 2: Do you really, I mean, do you think you're of
Speaker 2: the opinion?
Speaker 1: And I appreciate this, it's always so we're all, you
Speaker 1: know looking back, you know, one hundred and seven day
Speaker 1: sprint and obviously the highlights of the view everything else,
Speaker 1: and there's been so many diagnosis of what went wrong? Was,
Speaker 1: you know, to your point about distinguishing herself a little
Speaker 1: bit from the president. Obviously the amount of time, the
Speaker 1: fact there wasn't an open primary. More broadly beyond her,
Speaker 1: the incumbent pen to you, which some had assessed, issues
Speaker 1: around immigration, inflation, interest rates, and Israel certainly played a role,
Speaker 1: I imagine in some respects. But you think fundamentally this
Speaker 1: was an election where Vice President Harris could have won.
Speaker 3: Hemp had ninety one in diamond counts against him, He'd
Speaker 3: been in peach twice, he was now the oldest president
Speaker 3: to run for office. Now that Biden was out, and
Speaker 3: he had all these moments that one questions, by the way,
Speaker 3: eating the dogs, eating the cats, how the heck do
Speaker 3: you elect that? He said, behind it right? He still won.
Speaker 3: And yes, he is a great communicator, he knows how
Speaker 3: to talk to his supporters. But she blew it. And
Speaker 3: she should wake up every day thinking to herself, how
Speaker 3: did I lose to this guy?
Speaker 1: Well, I hope she doesn't do that. I want her
Speaker 1: to move on, and we all do in context. But
Speaker 1: I think all of us need to reflect on what happened,
Speaker 1: what didn't happen. You were pretty pointed, weren't you after
Speaker 1: that debate, not only that Harris won, but that potentially
Speaker 1: Trump lost the election that night on the basis of
Speaker 1: some of those comments. Were you I mean, did you reflect?
Speaker 1: I mean it was just your point. I mean why
Speaker 1: there was no movement in the pulse. It seemed, regardless
Speaker 1: of Trump claiming he crushed it and Harris, I think
Speaker 1: objectively it did, but didn't seem to move anybody.
Speaker 3: I never saw this before, never in American history, as
Speaker 3: a debate and less impactful on the election.
Speaker 1: And she crushed it. I mean, she really did. I
Speaker 1: was very inspired, was one of the spin room people.
Speaker 1: So I'm paid to say that as they say, but
Speaker 1: I really believe it. And the further distance I have,
Speaker 1: the more impressed I was with her performance.
Speaker 3: Therefore, therefore, the more critical you should be of her campaign.
Speaker 3: On that night she won the election. Why did Trump
Speaker 3: win by such a big margin? It wasn't even that
Speaker 3: for modern days, it wasn't that close. Why did he
Speaker 3: win Michigan and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and others stay in Arizona.
Speaker 3: He won them because people thought he said what he
Speaker 3: meant and meant what he said, and while they didn't
Speaker 3: like how he articulated it, which is exactly what's happening
Speaker 3: right now. They wanted that agenda. Why did she lose
Speaker 3: when she had the election, She had more money than God,
Speaker 3: had an amazing debate performance that everyone saw. There was
Speaker 3: never another debate. She gone into the lead there. Why
Speaker 3: did she lose? She lost because of herself. In the end,
Speaker 3: it's not just what's going on around you. You have
Speaker 3: to tell people what you are for. You have to
Speaker 3: tell them what you will do, and you have to
Speaker 3: be able to show that you can get it done.
Speaker 3: I remember what a big deal it was when she
Speaker 3: was made the immigrations are I was around, I saw
Speaker 3: all this, and then during the campaigns he tries to
Speaker 3: run away from it. Oh, I wasn't important. I had
Speaker 3: nothing to do. Own it. Be sincere with people. Let
Speaker 3: them see you acknowledge as I'm doing right here, right now.
Speaker 3: I got that election wrong. I knew Trump was going
Speaker 3: to win two weeks before, but I knew he was
Speaker 3: going to lose after that debate because no one had
Speaker 3: ever recovered from such a bad debate performance. Governor. The
Speaker 3: public deserves the truth. The public deserves candor. They have
Speaker 3: the right to know when we got it wrong. And
Speaker 3: if you can't admit you got it wrong, then you
Speaker 3: probably don't deserve to have your position. And they need
Speaker 3: to know what you're going to do so you don't
Speaker 3: get it wrong in the future. I think we've lost
Speaker 3: not just his sense of stability and decency, but I
Speaker 3: think we've lost what made America so great, which was
Speaker 3: this pursuit of the truth. To acknowledge that separate but
Speaker 3: equal was not equal, to acknowledge that we could be
Speaker 3: a more perfect union. The idea that we're always focused
Speaker 3: on doing better for our children than the next generation.
Speaker 3: And now we try to cover stuff up, and now
Speaker 3: we tried to accept the status quo. The same people
Speaker 3: who screamed and hollered about prices and voted for Donald
Speaker 3: Trump because he thought that he would make their life
Speaker 3: more livable. Look at the stock market, look at four
Speaker 3: one case. Those same people are saying, well, we need
Speaker 3: an adjustment in the stock market. It was too high.
Speaker 3: You couldn't afford your food and fuel, and now you
Speaker 3: actually want your time and savings to be reduced because
Speaker 3: it's artificially high. We have to tell the truth, just
Speaker 3: for once. I want to use the F word, but
Speaker 3: I don't because I want you to put this hanging on.
Speaker 2: It's been used often here, Frank, Yes.
Speaker 3: But I'm actually so serious. Now, embrace the truth, seek
Speaker 3: the truth, fight for the truth, and demand that people
Speaker 3: tell you it. And when they say to you they
Speaker 3: weren't wrong, make them prove it. And when you say
Speaker 3: to them, I've got a better answer, show me. Please.
Speaker 1: All that being said, Trump voters, you've been doing the
Speaker 1: focus groups, you did the assessment of his first one
Speaker 1: hundred days with everything you just said, everything you laid out,
Speaker 1: and the imperative of being honest and accountable and speaking truth.
Speaker 2: No one's moved.
Speaker 1: His base is not moved, right, I mean remarkably despite
Speaker 1: their four one case, despite the impacts on prices, the
Speaker 1: uncertainty as it relates to the tariff, and all the
Speaker 1: other sort of chaos that one would have otherwise expected. Perhaps,
Speaker 1: but do I think to degree that certainly is alarming.
Speaker 3: Because they'll say to you, as they did in a
Speaker 3: very articulate way, we want action. And Joe Biden was
Speaker 3: for years of inaction, four years of empty rhetoric without
Speaker 3: the intensity of getting it done.
Speaker 1: And they frank, they and forgive me just for cutting
Speaker 1: you there. But they didn't see the chips and Science acts.
Speaker 1: They didn't see the infrastructure build they didn't see foreigner
Speaker 1: bipartisan bills. They didn't see the Safer Community actors relates
Speaker 1: to gun violence and mental health. They didn't see the IRA,
Speaker 1: They didn't see those as accomplishments. Is it because the
Speaker 1: rhetoric didn't back it up? Why was he, from your perspective,
Speaker 1: missing in action? Or were all those things trivial in
Speaker 1: the context of the American people.
Speaker 3: They're not trivial, And normally I try to look at
Speaker 3: the camera. But now I'm looking at you in my screen.
Speaker 3: See a reaction here. You actually hit it right on
Speaker 3: the head. They didn't see it. They didn't see the
Speaker 3: jobs from the Chips Act. They didn't see the roads
Speaker 3: getting built from the infrastructure. They didn't see efforts and accountability,
Speaker 3: all the things that you just mentioned. No, sir, they
Speaker 3: didn't see it. They heard about it, but it wasn't
Speaker 3: in front of their eyes. And what did they see?
Speaker 3: People coming over the wall, people coming across the border
Speaker 3: at night New York City, where people were illegal immigrants
Speaker 3: were seen as murderers. That's what they saw. They didn't
Speaker 3: see prices coming down. They knew the price of eggs,
Speaker 3: they knew the price of a gallon of gas. That's
Speaker 3: what they saw. In your question, you actually answered it.
Speaker 3: They didn't see it. And this is a challenge for
Speaker 3: you in the last two years of your administration. If
Speaker 3: you want people to see how Califlorifornia's changed, they have
Speaker 3: to internalize it. It's not enough for you to say it.
Speaker 3: You have to show them visually and they have to
Speaker 3: believe that it's true.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 3: One more thing about Trump, please, they supported his agendas
Speaker 3: still do. They want an end to illegal immigration, and
Speaker 3: so they're willing to turn a blind eye if some
Speaker 3: people get kicked out as shop. They desperately want the
Speaker 3: US on a level playing field versus China. So they're
Speaker 3: willing to support tariffs if that's what makes China give
Speaker 3: American products, American services and the American workforce, and even
Speaker 3: shake which they do not do. No, they didn't see waste,
Speaker 3: and they desperately want an end to waste. For Washington spending.
Speaker 3: They don't like Elon Musk with a chainsaw, but they
Speaker 3: do like the fact that agencies that cannot prove that
Speaker 3: they're delivering. Yep, they do want those agencies cut. That's
Speaker 3: why they support Trump, not for the execution, but for
Speaker 3: the agenda.
Speaker 1: So, Frank, what is your you know in I love
Speaker 1: just in the limited time, just pivot a little bit because.
Speaker 2: I think what you know where we are and where
Speaker 2: we're going.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think about the reflect you're reflecting on
Speaker 1: Harris's campaign a little bit and trying to seek some
Speaker 1: truth telling, particularly from the Democrats, to understand and own it.
Speaker 1: Where do you see the Democratic Party right now? And
Speaker 1: where do you see Donald Trump and the republic and
Speaker 1: perhaps separately, where do you see the Republican Party independent
Speaker 1: of Trump? And, if I may just to extend the
Speaker 1: long question, any advice for the Democratic Party, any advice
Speaker 1: for the Republican Party independent of MAGA perhaps and Trump
Speaker 1: and trump Ism itself.
Speaker 3: I have to start somewhere, So we'll start with the Democrats.
Speaker 3: The public support Trump's agenda, they just don't support the execution.
Speaker 3: So tell me how you're going to address immigration, but
Speaker 3: do so in a way that delivers better results. How
Speaker 3: are you going to address the unleveled playing field between
Speaker 3: the US and China that is genuinely hurt American manufacturing,
Speaker 3: but to do so in a way that guarantees that
Speaker 3: factories can open up here and where American the workforce
Speaker 3: is respected for what it does. They do want cuts
Speaker 3: to waste for Washington spending. They just want a scalpel
Speaker 3: and on a chainsaw. So I'm looking for the Democrat
Speaker 3: who surrounds himself for the word better, who emphasizes we
Speaker 3: can do it better than that. We hear you, we
Speaker 3: understand you. We know you're pissed off, we know you
Speaker 3: wanted us to fight. Don't get mad, don't get even
Speaker 3: get ahead who focuses on leap frogging the current resistance. Two.
Speaker 3: And it's not aquiescence, it's not Chuck Schumer at all.
Speaker 3: It's Haakm Jeffries at his best. Because Hakeen Jeffries at
Speaker 3: his best offers solutions that will address Medicare and medicate
Speaker 3: that seeks to hold Washington accountable without punishing the hardworking taxpayer.
Speaker 3: And in the end, and this is the great way
Speaker 3: to end, the Democratic part respects the hardworking taxpayer. Democrats
Speaker 3: just want to tack. You say you just want to
Speaker 3: tax the rich, the wealthy, the affluent. But every time
Speaker 3: you call for raising the debt tax, for example, that
Speaker 3: punishes family businesses. Every time you set that number, the
Speaker 3: people who actually hire, who create jobs, are those who
Speaker 3: are successful. I live in a beautiful home in la As.
Speaker 3: You know, I will only be here this year, maybe
Speaker 3: twenty five days, and I really wanted to do this
Speaker 3: face to face because I appreciate you, and I wanted
Speaker 3: to express that you're going to be a leading Democratic candidate.
Speaker 3: Don't punish success. Find a way to share it, find
Speaker 3: a way to spread it. But if you punish it,
Speaker 3: you'll never get elected. Because in the end, Americans will
Speaker 3: not support that. They do believe that we have a
Speaker 3: wealth gap that's out of control. It's one of the
Speaker 3: best democratic issues is income gap. But they don't want
Speaker 3: to take the wealthy down. They want to bring the
Speaker 3: paycheck to paycheck voter up. And I don't think Democrats
Speaker 3: fully understand that.
Speaker 1: So you think it's a big mistake where Bernie and
Speaker 1: AOC are going in terms of just the oligarchy frame.
Speaker 1: You think that just reinforces a frame that you don't.
Speaker 2: Think as well. You know, it is more broadly well received,
Speaker 2: despite pulling even your own polling or estimates saying sixty
Speaker 2: two to three percent of American support of wealth text.
Speaker 3: It gets them, and someone was you saw the presentation
Speaker 3: because that's been public about this. Yeah, it gets themed,
Speaker 3: get some crowds of twenty or thirty thousand people, which
Speaker 3: is a lot, and make them relevant to the debate.
Speaker 3: But it doesn't get them elected president. And that's the difference.
Speaker 3: And there needs to be someone who says, look, this
Speaker 3: is a great country, we just have a few of
Speaker 3: our We need to fix what's wrong without undermining what's
Speaker 3: right about America. And that's not what they do. They're
Speaker 3: too negative and they're too on the nose, and it
Speaker 3: will bring about significant Democratic support, but it will not
Speaker 3: put them in the overall office. In twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 1: You're reminded me of Bill Clinton's famous lize nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with America that can't be fixed by what's right with America.
Speaker 3: Yes, and I believe that that's his line. I believe
Speaker 3: he wrote that, and that's an understanding of where America
Speaker 3: is at right now. Because we're very pessimistic. We believe
Speaker 3: the future is going to be worse than the present.
Speaker 3: We believe that the president is worse than the past.
Speaker 3: But we're not going to vote for someone who's inherently negative.
Speaker 3: We're not going to vote for someone who's going to take.
Speaker 3: We want someone who's going to give. And on the
Speaker 3: Republican side, there has to be a better message than
Speaker 3: we need to get even with them, then we need
Speaker 3: to punish them, because in the end that does not
Speaker 3: bring the country together. There needs to be a message
Speaker 3: that says, yes, they got it wrong and you got hurt,
Speaker 3: but you're not forgotten, you're not ignored, and we haven't
Speaker 3: betrayed you. We will write this country, Remember, Governor, it's
Speaker 3: the working class union voter that put Donald Trump in
Speaker 3: office and took that election away from Kamala Harris. It's
Speaker 3: the Latino who said, you want to take all this
Speaker 3: to help the black community. What about us Latino men
Speaker 3: voted Trump for the first time ever. Yep. These are
Speaker 3: fundamental changes that have not happened. And the last thing
Speaker 3: I'd say is among young men, they've come to see
Speaker 3: more in Trump that's better for their future than Vice
Speaker 3: President Harris. I don't know if it's what Trump got right.
Speaker 3: I don't know what Harris got wrong. But these are
Speaker 3: big fundamental shifts that the Democrats have to address, and
Speaker 3: I don't see them addressing it. This is why. And
Speaker 3: by the way, at your best, you address it. At
Speaker 3: your best, you talk about this and you engage it.
Speaker 3: You kicked Dessan's ass in that debate, and I think
Speaker 3: he had the issues on his side. They had the
Speaker 3: moderator on his side. But every time you go and
Speaker 3: this is California and I we don't want to get
Speaker 3: into California, but this is part of the Democratic Party.
Speaker 3: You have a group of Democrats that get you to
Speaker 3: stand up and cheer and give you standing ovations, and
Speaker 3: you're pumping your fists in the air, and I get
Speaker 3: you noticed, but that will not get you votes.
Speaker 1: Love bless and I want to end as I promised,
Speaker 1: as we began, and that's going back to Corey Booker.
Speaker 1: You know you were outspoken in your praise and you've
Speaker 1: referenced it a few times in this conversation that was
Speaker 1: twenty five hour marathon. Corey's Corey's consider him sort of
Speaker 1: extended family.
Speaker 2: I've known him forever.
Speaker 1: He's an actual friend, not one of those political friends.
Speaker 1: So I have a strong bias towards him, and he's
Speaker 1: just deeply sincere. I think he's a wonderful human being.
Speaker 1: Most importantly, forget politics for me, and my judgment is
Speaker 1: about the character of the person. So I loved the
Speaker 1: fact that you thought that was a special speech, But
Speaker 1: let's end. Why did you think that was a special speech?
Speaker 1: And what did it represent in this moment that you
Speaker 1: think needs to be more represented more broadly in moments
Speaker 1: to come.
Speaker 3: He told stories of real people, He told stories of
Speaker 3: real life, and he didn't just bash the president. He
Speaker 3: spoke in favor of them, of uplifting them, of celebrating them.
Speaker 3: Corey Booker has the most positive message for the country,
Speaker 3: which is not what Democrats wanted to hear in twenty twenty,
Speaker 3: which is why you didn't get the nomination. My challenge
Speaker 3: to Senator Booker is, can you put that twenty five
Speaker 3: hours into a bottle, have the guts to say, I'm
Speaker 3: not going to beat up on Trump. I'm going to
Speaker 3: tell you where we could be as a country, where
Speaker 3: we could be as a society, and I'm going to
Speaker 3: celebrate the positive that to America as I addressed the
Speaker 3: pain and the suffering. If he can do that with
Speaker 3: the discipline of not getting drawn into Trump, and if
Speaker 3: Democrats realize that they're going to get elected in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty eight, they rise or fall based on their own positions,
Speaker 3: not Trump, based on their ability to do it better
Speaker 3: and more favorably and more hopefully and with greater celebration.
Speaker 3: We don't celebrate anything anymore. We condemn, and we dismiss,
Speaker 3: and we disregard and we hate. If Booker can be
Speaker 3: can be the antidote to that, he'll be the Democratic
Speaker 3: nominee and he'll be the next president. And if he
Speaker 3: can't do it, maybe Mitchell andre can. And if he
Speaker 3: can't do it, maybe Wes Moore can that they can't
Speaker 3: do it. Sure, maybe you can, but it's not taking
Speaker 3: the easy road, it's taking the better road.
Speaker 1: Well, what a way to end, Frank, thank you for
Speaker 1: all your insight, Thanks for the history, thanks for joining
Speaker 1: us today.
Speaker 2: I'm very grateful for this opportunity.
Speaker 3: And Governor, the idea that this idiot from West Harbor, Connecticut,
Speaker 3: who flunk calculus as a freshman in college, who had
Speaker 3: trouble holding his first job, gets invited to have this
Speaker 3: conversation with the governor of California. What a life. Thank you,
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: What a life. I appreciate that. Frank, thank you, thanks
Speaker 2: for being with us on tears.