1 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to woke f Daily with 2 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody back in the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: what a fuck show of a week it has been, right, 4 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: Am I? Right? I mean I tell you this every week, 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: but by the time I get to Friday, I am 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: so just outdone. I'm outdone with Republicans fuckery. I just 7 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: I think about, well, what are the things that I 8 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: want to remember and cover for the week, And I 9 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: feel absolutely crazy, Like I feel like my head is 10 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: on some type of swivel because I can't remember from 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: what happened on Monday, because so much crap happens during 12 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: the week. It's like one big avalanche. But I'm going 13 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: to try and summarize just some of the things that 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: have happened. But I tell you that the guests that 15 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: I have for today's show is perfect because the title 16 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: of doctor Treva Lindsay's book is exactly how I feel 17 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: on any given fucking day, which is America, Goddamn violence, 18 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: Black women and the Struggle for Justice. And you know, 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,199 Speaker 1: we will talk about the reasoning behind her title, which 20 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: is if you're familiar with Nina Simone, Nina Simone's song 21 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: Mississippi Goddamn was about the violence that black people the 22 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: black community were facing in Mississippi, and doctor Lindsay will 23 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: go into detail about the history behind that song and 24 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: why she wanted to attribute a part of her title 25 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: to Nina Simone. But Folks, when I take a look 26 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: at this week, when I think about more leaks of 27 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy showing momentarily that he actually recognized how grave 28 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: of a moment in American history the insurrection was, but 29 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: only to make an about face, get on a plane, 30 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: fly down so that he can perfectly position his lips 31 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: on Donald Trump's ass. It's so disheartening. But what I 32 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: think that I'm finding about these moments and why I 33 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: get stuck sometime in this downward spiral of despair that 34 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: then I have to force myself to climb out of, 35 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 1: is because I believe that this current iteration of the 36 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: Republican Party, imagine if you actually had a fearless and 37 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: fierce Democratic party, So imagine them to be an entirely 38 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: different party altogether, one that wasn't afraid, one that was 39 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: filled with warriors that were about this battle. Republicans and 40 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: the fucking cartoons that they put out as their representatives 41 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: are literal gifts on a silver platter, But it's only 42 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: a gift to people that are willing to go toe 43 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: to toe with their bullshit and fuckery, like State Senator 44 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: McMorrow did in Michigan when she's like, no, I'm not 45 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: going to cower from the Republicans attacks and the audacity 46 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: and the despicable nature of them referring to her as 47 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: a groomer and as a pedophile, which is their new 48 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: fucking insult of choice, right to paint us all as 49 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: these pedophiles. Meanwhile, we can go through a list of 50 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: their sexual abusers and deviance and terribleness that they embrace. Right, 51 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: But what Senator McMorrow did in her fierce fucking pushback 52 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: was that she didn't run scared. She met toe to toe, 53 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: showed integrity, showed grace, but above all else, showed passion, 54 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: showed anger. Right, because I asked myself every single day, 55 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: where the fuck is the fire? Where is the energy 56 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: from Democrats? At the audacity of Republicans to try and 57 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: destroy not even try, they are actively destroying our democracy 58 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: without any real fucking opposition. Michael Harriet, writer for The 59 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: Grio and a former guest on Woke app tweeted and said, 60 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: you have Republicans literally offering the most terrible policies right 61 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: and trying to rewrite school curriculum, trying to erase gay people, 62 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: black people, women right from curriculum, and Democrats want to 63 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: run on quote unquote kitchen table issues. If there's no 64 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: more of a kitchen table issue than your child's education, 65 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what is, but as sure as fuck 66 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: know that backing off from culture wars does not serve 67 00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: Democrats at all. Just look at Virginia and Governor Glen Youngan, right, 68 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: there was no pushback to his parental control right, which 69 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,679 Speaker 1: in my piece for The Daily Beast that I wrote 70 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: this week on the case that is in Washington State 71 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: with regard to prayer in schools, there was no pushback too, yunkin, 72 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: That's how he won. Democrats were like, well, crt isn't 73 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: being taught, It's something that we only teach in blah 74 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah blah. As opposed to going 75 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: toe to toe with the junkins of the world and saying, 76 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: what scares you about Tony Morrison, Why don't you believe 77 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: that our children should learn and be able to contextualize 78 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: inside of a classroom the layered experience and history of America. 79 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: What is so scary about that if marginalized communities were 80 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: forced to face white domestic terrorism on a regular basis, 81 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: your ancestors, no less, Why can't children learn about that 82 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: and learn from the mistakes that we've made in the 83 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: past and be able to contextualize the progress that we've 84 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: had and still that there is more room to grow. 85 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: Of course, unless you don't believe that the progress that 86 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: has been made is good, and so then then you 87 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: are put on the defense to talk about why you 88 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: think that LGBTQ folks should be a push back into 89 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: the closet, to talk about why you believe that women 90 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: have no business in the workplace, to talk about why 91 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: black people shouldn't be able to vote, Because then, right 92 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: you would find democrats creating the parameters for the game 93 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: instead of running after fucking Lucy with the football, And 94 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: then you would see the media then respond and actually 95 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: ask the kind of fucking questions that they should be asking. 96 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: But instead we have a Republican white supremacist cult that 97 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: is rewriting all of the rules. I mean, I said 98 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: this this week on Democracy Ish, my other podcast with 99 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,239 Speaker 1: my friend Jaha Ali, where we had on the author 100 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: of Jesus and John Wayne talking about white Evangelical Christians 101 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: and how they have remade Jesus into their warrior Christ, 102 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: their muscle bound, tanned warrior Christ and why this party 103 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: that was supposed to be about family values fell for 104 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: a deity that has been three times married and grabs 105 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: about brags about grabbing women by the pussy. Right. So 106 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: the Republican Party in its current incarnation is a fucking gift. 107 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: But it is only a gift if you have a 108 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: backbone in a spine, which we know the Democratic Party 109 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: doesn't have. My whole thing is that, folks, we got 110 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: three hundred federal judges that Trump appointed right in four 111 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: fucking years. Why is that? Because Democrats have no spine 112 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: and they didn't fight against Mitch McConnell. They didn't take 113 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: him on because they thought that, oh, well, maybe if 114 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: we don't fight him, he'll be our friend. Right. You 115 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: still got fucking Joe Biden on a regular basis referring 116 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: to these obstruction as motherfucker says his friends, right, because 117 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: they have not or they refuse to identify who the 118 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: villains are. Republicans have no fucking problem doing that. And 119 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: so yeah, at the end of each week I find 120 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: myself in a place of utter despair where I want 121 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: to say, on a regular basis, America got damned, like, 122 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 1: what the fuck is wrong with you? And So coming 123 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 1: up next, friends, my conversation with a Triva Lindsay, feminist 124 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: historian and author of America Goddamn Violence, Black Women and 125 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: the Struggle for Justice. I hope that you enjoy the conversation. 126 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: Please do let me know in the comments section what 127 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: you think, folks. I am super excited to welcome to 128 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: the show for the very first time doctor Treva Lindsay, 129 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: who is an feminist historian and author of the book America, 130 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: Goddamn Violence, Black Women and the Struggle for Justice. First 131 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: of all, Bravo, because the title is does not love 132 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: that Nina Simone song that just still till this day penetrate. 133 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: So I want to start out with that question first, 134 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: Doctor Lindsay, which is why that title? Yeah, you know, 135 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: and and what what was what was the spirit behind 136 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: that that selection? Well, first and foremost, thank you for 137 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: having me here. I'm so excited to be in conversation 138 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: with you and to be in conversation with your audience, 139 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: especially about this book. So I love Nina Simone, right, 140 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: So that's first and foremost. I just love me and Simone. 141 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: Whatever I can incorporate her in some way into a title, 142 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: a concept, I'm there for it. But this had such 143 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: a particular meaning, so one I wanted to ground this 144 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: in me because this book is both a history and 145 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: also a collection of personal accounts of my experiences with 146 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: violence that really help the reader the audience to understand 147 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: the stakes of addressing the pervasiveness of violence against black 148 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: women and girls and my families from North Carolina. So 149 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 1: there's that Nina Simone connection that comes in there. But 150 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: Missus Sippi Got Damn is a song that Nina writes 151 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: in response to the assassination of Mega Evers and the 152 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: bombing of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church in nineteen sixty 153 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 1: three that killed four little girls. It's how they're often 154 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: remembered by history. But their names were Addie, Carol, Cynthia, 155 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: and Denise. And I was really interested in the idea 156 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: that we don't actually say their names, we refer to 157 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: them as the four little girls, and we don't know 158 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: a lot about them before that moment of the spectacular 159 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 1: encounter of white domestic terrorism. We don't know who they are. 160 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: We don't know that they were brownies, and they love 161 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: to play the clarinet and music. And that was Na 162 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: Simone's first protest song. And I know, we tend to 163 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: think about Nina Simone, who has always being politically active 164 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: with her music and engaged in that way, but she 165 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: was always against kind of anthem music up until that 166 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: point because she was like, how do you fit all 167 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: that black people endure into three and a half minutes? 168 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: How would one begin to do that? But these two 169 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: incidents propelled her to figure out a way to do that, 170 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: and so she writes this song that is both indicting 171 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: of the ongoing struggles of African Americans and people of 172 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: African descent in the United States by pointing out different 173 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: states and homes in or Mississippi, but she's talking about 174 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: everywhere that it is everywhere. And so my riff on 175 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: this was saying in twenty twenty two, we're still saying America, 176 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: God damn, the levels of violence, the level of harm, 177 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: the level of dispossession, exploitation and marginalization that you're still 178 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: conscripting Black men, women and girls to endure is unfathomable, 179 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: and so I wanted to return to a song that 180 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: conveyed that urgency. Who was also written with that same 181 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: spirit of telling the truth about America and also telling 182 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: the truth about the resistance that black people were mounting 183 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: against it. You know, doctor Linda, you make so many 184 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: good points, and a couple of that I want to 185 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: circle back to, so first being the reality that just 186 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: hit me one. I didn't know of the four little 187 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: black girls names, not off of the top of my head. 188 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: And what kind of erasure does that signify? Because you know, 189 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: when I think about the people's names and why the 190 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: hashtags with regard to the Black Lives Matter movement are 191 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: so important, and why the say her Name movement has 192 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: been so important, it has been because of this erasure 193 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,359 Speaker 1: of black people and violent, the violence that has consistently 194 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: and has been unrelenting we visited upon our community since 195 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: the beginning of time. And so when you say those 196 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: names and we think about that, as you said, spectacular 197 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: moment of white domestic violence, of white terrorism, what is 198 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: it you think that we could have done, even if 199 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: even you know, with our hindsight being twenty twenty, but 200 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: even contextualizing that spectacular moment with let's say the shooting 201 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: at Mother Emmanuel in South Carolina, but you know a 202 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: handful of years ago, and the idea that we talk 203 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: about the nine parishioners that were murdered, but we don't 204 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: say their names, right. I mean, I'm I'm certain their 205 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: community says their names. I'm saying that their church still 206 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: lifts up their names. We know the name of the 207 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: shooter right, right, right, and so's so that so I'm like, 208 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:44,479 Speaker 1: what is it about us in our society that allows 209 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: us to elevate those that do us harm and then 210 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: at the same time forget or erase those that have 211 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: been harmed? Yes, and it's it's it's a couple of 212 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: things that I think are happening there. So my insistence 213 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: on saying their names and getting their names right is 214 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: also about accessing these stories from a life affirming point 215 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: of view. What happened to them was death dealing. What 216 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: happened to them is how we come to know them. 217 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: But that's not how their communities knew them. Their communities 218 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: knew them as people. These girls who were moving through 219 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: the neighborhood and part of this community that we're there 220 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: on an early Sunday morning. There's the fifth girl who 221 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: survives the bombing, who we're still living right, Sarah, who's 222 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: the sister of Addie. All of that is why I 223 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: want to say their names, because then that compels me, 224 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: and I'm hoping folks who care and compelling folks to 225 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: care to actually learn about their lives prior to that moment, 226 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: what life was snuffed out in terms of doing that, 227 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: But even when we get to moments where we are 228 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: saying names, but not necessarily the names of those victimized, terrorrized, assailed, 229 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: or harm oftentimes we're trying to name, and I understand 230 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: we're trying to name the horror. We're trying to make 231 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: sure that there is a record and a documentation of 232 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: the ways that white supremacy operates, of the ways that 233 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: patriarchy operates. I understand that impulse. I also want to 234 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: ensure while we're holding that, while we're naming, that, while 235 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: we're rendering that ever legible, that we don't then participate 236 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: in the erasure of the life that these individuals live. 237 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: What happens before the injury, what happens before the killing 238 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: who or worse, what happens is we do name certain people, 239 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: but then we use it implicitly that criminalizes. So we 240 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: often say the Rodney King trial. Rodney King wasn't on trial. 241 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: And if we ask people who the four officers were, 242 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: we don't know, don't know, right, we say the Trayvon 243 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: Martin Kays will say the Mike Brown case, And implicitly 244 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: it does a recriminalization of individuals who are being who 245 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: have been victimized, who have been killed and or harmed, 246 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: And we don't offer to do that in trials. Usually 247 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: a trial is named after, right, the person who is 248 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: accused of having done harror. But when it comes to 249 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: black people, so often because I think our attempts to navigate, 250 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: to name, to categorize, and to identify this relentless harm, 251 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: that oftentimes we still imbibe the same logics, and we 252 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: imbibe the same rhetoric and then spewed that back out 253 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: as we attempt to remember, as we attempt to recollect, 254 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: as we attempt to mobilize. Oh my goodness, you know, 255 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: when I think about how many black women, right, and 256 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: this is the point of your of your personal stories. 257 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: But when I think about how many Black women whose 258 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: lives have been stolen from them, right and by and 259 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: I don't just mean via murder, I mean via rape, 260 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: via emotional abuse. I mean just the violence that is 261 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: that is put upon Black women. And then yet to 262 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: your books point and to your point, and yet we 263 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: still find ourselves as the ones that are on the 264 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: front lines for justice, experiencing experiencing the abuse not only 265 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: from you know, outward white society, right, but then also 266 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: the erasure that we have experienced throughout history of being 267 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: on the front lines of civil rights movements and yet 268 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: told to be in the back right, being the one 269 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: that is the front in the pew and literally making 270 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: the church run. But you're not the pastor at the front, right, 271 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: And so what is it about you think the spirit 272 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: that is that is a part of that is innate 273 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: in Black women. And I hate this trope, but that 274 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: does give us the strength to both be able to 275 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: experience violence in all of its forms, but then still 276 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: find ourselves in these leadership positions to quote unquote do 277 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: the work. Oh. I mean that's a heavy one, Danielle, right, 278 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: and as a heavy one because I think we again internalize, 279 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: and imbibe in specializing in the holy impossible right. It's 280 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: the moniker from Nanny Helen Burroughs of what black women do. 281 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: Because there's a way that we know that the stakes 282 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: are so high. We know that the systems that we're 283 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: warring against, our systems that kill, rape, harm, demean and 284 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: devalue us. So we have a stake in continuing to 285 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: be on the front line. This is why you'll never 286 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: hear me say no one cares about black girls and women. 287 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: We care about black girls and women, and we are 288 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: certainly not no one. Come on, and because we have 289 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: that care practice, because we love with abundance, because we 290 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: know that our love, because our love sits at the 291 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: foot of all of these warring systems of oppression. It 292 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: sits at the foot of how white supremacy operates, how 293 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: patriarchy operates for many of us, how transphobia and queer 294 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: phobia operate, how ableism operates, how imperialism and colonialism operate. 295 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: That it demands for us to survive and thrive and 296 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: love on each other in accountable and just ways, to 297 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: be on the front line because we know we are 298 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: the front line being attacked, and we're being attacked from 299 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: all directions, and so that demands that we be vulnerable 300 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: with one another. We talk about our stories, even when 301 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: we're demonized for doing so. We can see that currently happening, 302 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: and it happens quite often when Black women do come 303 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: forward about particular forms of violence at their current especially 304 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: if it's intercommunal and interpersonal. And so I recognize that 305 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: as a strength. But the strength for me comes from 306 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: the willingness to have a full recognition, a particular kind 307 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: of multiple consciousness about how we want to imagine, we 308 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: want to be in the world, how we imagine ourselves 309 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: in the world. We are practicing a particular kind of 310 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: freedom as we move through this world. That it's telling 311 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: us that we are not worthy, we are not valuable, 312 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: that our communities aren't valuable to people we love are valuable, 313 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: that we're disposable, and our living, breathing existence is a 314 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: refutation of that politic of disposability. And I think that 315 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: propels us to keep showing up in spite of so 316 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: many factors warning against us, including those sometimes we're fighting alongside. 317 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that I notice, and 318 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: I want to ask if you notice this too, You know, 319 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: we've been living inside of this global health pandemic now 320 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: going on two years plus. And I have noticed that 321 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: through this time, at least in my in the feeds 322 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: of social media that I follow, that black women in 323 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: particular have and black women and let me say this, 324 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: black women that have the privilege and the ability to, 325 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: let's say, having worked from home, you know, having been remote, 326 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: but reassess their lives in a certain way where our 327 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: health and wellness and our own self care seems to 328 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: have seems to have reached a new stage where we 329 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: are really putting that that as a part of our 330 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: liberation right now, you know, by virtue of your work, 331 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: Audrew Lord and others way before us had talked about 332 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: self care as a revolutionary had talked about you know 333 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: that that that that our liberation is not just about 334 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,239 Speaker 1: how much we produce right and our production, but it 335 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 1: is about our ability to sees our ease back right 336 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: that has was stolen from our ancestors. And so have 337 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: you not, like, in what ways do you have you 338 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: seen black women in this modern time as we are 339 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: moving through so many varied heavy moments, our shift, our 340 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: shift in self and I know I'm making an overgeneralization. 341 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: But I'm talking about what I have seen by virtue 342 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: of people that I'm following. But it's been like the 343 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: poets and the artists and all these things, and it's 344 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: been deeply about self care. Have you noticed this similar, Yes, 345 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: I have, and I noticed it one and this is 346 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: what this book has allowed me to see. It's interesting 347 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,479 Speaker 1: when your book, in the work that you're doing, teaches 348 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: you and put you in conversation with other people you're 349 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: continuing to learn from. Is that I made a different 350 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,239 Speaker 1: intentional commitment to rest and care. I had you to 351 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: write a book like this, right to sit with these stories, 352 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: to sit death, to sit with rape, to sit with 353 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: my own experiences with violence, to sit with stories from 354 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: my community, and the care became as important as any 355 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,239 Speaker 1: other practice that allows you to write a book. So 356 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: there was a care practice, and ethics practice, and editing 357 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: practice or writing practice, but the only one that had 358 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: to be intacted every step was the care and what 359 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: I was doing. And I noticed during a pandemic, which 360 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: in many ways became a great magnifier of all of 361 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: the disparities that we see. So who's going to be 362 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: disparately impacted by COVID, Who's going to be disparately impacted 363 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: by what is the impending housing crisis, Who's going to 364 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: be deeply impacted by food, insecurity, water, all of the issues. 365 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: And we knew from the beginning. The very first article 366 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: I wrote during the pandemic was about the disparate effect 367 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: COVID was about to have on Black women and girls. 368 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: And this was April of twenty twenty. That was so foreseeable. 369 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: And so to see Black women and tweens and teens 370 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: via TikTok and other mechanisms prioritize care, care networks, care 371 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: of self, thinking about places like the NAP Ministry. I'm 372 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: thinking about outlets of things, of thinking about the Black 373 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: health and wellness in the work of someone like a 374 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: Stephanie Evans who kind of collects this longer history. Think 375 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: about black women practicing yoga, These amazing images of Rosa 376 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: Parks practicing yoga amidst organizing and being this radical force 377 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,959 Speaker 1: that she was. And I see so many people seeing 378 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: the death, the grief and not having our typical ways 379 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: of and being able to engage one another, that the 380 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: ability to create care practices was a tool of survival. 381 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: It's a tool of resistance against an additional death dealing 382 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: force that is now disparately impacting us. And so I've 383 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: been very heartened to see a number of Black women 384 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: prioritizing that and cutting across kind of class that is 385 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: lined to articulate what it means to rest, to care, 386 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: to create moments of breath for one another. And that 387 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: to me, as I think about the things if we 388 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: move to endemic from pandemic, that I hope we're bringing 389 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: with us into that stage, that this is not simply 390 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: reactionary to this global phenomenon that is COVID nineteen that 391 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: has been so ravenous to our communities, but that we 392 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: take that tool as it has manifested in this moment 393 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: and recognize it as an ancestral inheritance and move it 394 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: into our features. You know. One of the things too, 395 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: And in thinking about how you wrote America, Goddamn, it's like, 396 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: how do you how how did you go about doctor 397 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: Lindsay being able to tell stories about violence while recognizing 398 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: that that is really the lens that White America sees 399 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: us through right like they It is trauma porn for 400 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: Black mothers that have lost daughters and sons to police violence. Right, 401 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: it is normal for them to see our tears and 402 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: and you know, and not even and have I guess 403 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: momentary fits of empathy that but are that are very fleeting. 404 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: So what does it mean for you to write a 405 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: book that contextualizes through you know, personal accounts violence and 406 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: and and and the struggle for justice but understanding that like, 407 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: we are so layered and have experienced so and have 408 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: experienced so much and are so much. But then at 409 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: the same time, society kind of just I don't know, 410 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of the word that I'm looking 411 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: for distills us into these one dimensional beings of trauma. 412 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: So it's like, how do you both like tell the 413 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: story of that but then also know that that's all 414 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: we've ever been distilled into, Right? And I write through 415 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: a little bit of that tension for me, particularly in 416 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: the chapter where I speak about intro communal violence, about 417 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: my concern that what I'm writing here could be weaponized 418 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: in particular ways or contribute to the illogical but ever 419 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: present criminalizing and pathologizing of black people, which is never 420 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: my intention, And that where do you use I think 421 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: it is so accurate of trauma porn. Let's just keep 422 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: talking about the death feeling without talking about the systems. 423 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: And so for me, the stories in the way that 424 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: I attempted to write this are brought to life through 425 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,959 Speaker 1: the structures and systems that I'm identify. That the systems 426 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: and the structures are what are so disgusting and deplorable. 427 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: That is the inhumanity. Right. I don't ever concede that 428 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: white supremacy dehumanizes Black people and that we are rehumanizing ourselves. 429 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: It is whiteness that has to prove itself as person 430 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: or human because the track record of inhumanity that has 431 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: been constructed over hundreds of years, of colonial violence, of 432 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: white supremacist violence, of patriarchal violence, of capitalists exploitative violence, 433 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: of current imperial violence, tells a very real story about 434 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: who needs to reckon with what the human even means. 435 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: And so those systems and structures, for me, are what 436 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: is at the core of the book. That's the goddamn 437 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: when I bring in the stories, which is why I 438 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: use first names to identify the people who are a sale, 439 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: who are killed, who are raped, who are sexually assaulted, 440 00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: to create a sense of intimacy, right, run short on 441 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: the building of empathy, because I don't believe that whiteness 442 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: actually is constructed around or grounded in empathy, And there's 443 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: so many examples of that. The most recent study is 444 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: that when folks found out that COVID was disparately impacting 445 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: communities of color, largely black and indigenous, open it back 446 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: up right, and that we saw empathy around COVID significantly 447 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: decreased once studies came out, once there was more publicity 448 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: around the fact that black and Indigenous in particular communities 449 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: were being disparately impacted. So empathy isn't the thing I 450 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: was working for in the book, right I'm writing for 451 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: I'm writing from and with an among black women and 452 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: girls and gender expansive people. I am hoping they see 453 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: themselves in this, and I'm hoping that a broader audience 454 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: who was engaging this is thinking about how terrorizing, how awful, 455 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: how just gut wrenching, soul crushing, life evacuating these systems 456 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: are and feel indicted, and feel uncomfortable, and feel even 457 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: a little bit of the goddamn that black people have 458 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: been feeling for hundreds of years, and that as a 459 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: condition of the inhumanity of whiteness, as construct right as 460 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: whiteness as it exists, as it shores itself up through 461 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: being able to pathologize and criminalize. And so the structures 462 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: and systems are on trial here, not the people. Do 463 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: you think then that movement movement politics is getting our 464 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: focus wrong? Then, because the point, at least what I 465 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: have perceived to be the point of Black Lives Matter, 466 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: have been to actually do just that right, identify to 467 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: the world that black lives matter. Do you think that, then? 468 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: May be we we are which But what I just 469 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: took away from you is you're saying we're already human. 470 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: I don't have to prove my humanness. I'm not rehumanizing myself, 471 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: and that we need to show how inhumane the systems 472 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: and the structures have been putting, putting whiteness as a 473 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: construct then on the defense to defend itself. It's cruelty, 474 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: it's in humanity, it's violence, as opposed to us trying 475 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: to prove our innocence. Because I even I'm listening to 476 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: you and my synapses are going because I'm like, so, 477 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: wait a minute, we have respectability. Respectability politics was born 478 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: out of our desire to show up as best as 479 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: we could because if they see us right as clean, articulate, 480 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: you know, dignified in all these things, that maybe they 481 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: won't hang us from the neighboring tree, right and so 482 00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: have is there is this an opportunity, this, this calamity, 483 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: this time that we're living in, does to present an 484 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: opportunity for us to reimagine the presentation of how we 485 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: get to justice. That it isn't about elevating our humanity, 486 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: as if we're the ones that should be doing that work, 487 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: but instead to show the inhumanity of the systems at play. Yes, 488 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: and I think it's interesting because we have you know, 489 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: Black Lives Matters hashtag, a global network, you have racial 490 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: justice movements, movement, all of which have my deep and 491 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: profound respect right for what it brought to the fore. 492 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: And that notion of mattering, I understand on the most 493 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: gut level why that is like the impulsive reaction, we matter, 494 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: we matter, we matter, and we have to say that 495 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: to ourselves sometimes because it's very easy to imbibe and 496 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: internalize the same white supremacist logics, patriarchal logics, transphobic logics 497 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: that circulate. We're growing up in that society too. So 498 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: the divesting from that is part of the work that 499 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: we're doing. So that mattering in that declaration and that 500 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: assertion is one part in one's strategy. I am interested 501 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,240 Speaker 1: as your noting here and moving us and thinking about 502 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,280 Speaker 1: the long legacy of people who have moved us, to 503 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: think about these structures, to think about these systems, to 504 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: call that out. It's why we're having discussions about abolition 505 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: in the ways that we are right now. That would 506 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: not have even happened ten years ago. Five years ago, 507 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: we weren't having public debates. And I'm just saying debate, 508 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: not that we've all become abolitionists, but to say that 509 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: people are studying, reading, debating, and when we get to 510 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: the debate what you just mentioned here envisioning something else 511 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: that is part of what abolition calls you to do. 512 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: That is the tradition of black Fami's abolition, imagining worlds 513 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: in which white in humanity is indicted. Not that we're 514 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: constantly proving to people who are doing the cruelty, to 515 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: the systems that are doing the cruelty, that we deserve 516 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: not to be treated truly right, it's e eradication of 517 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 1: cruelty that's at the core of the kind of work 518 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: that we're doing and on the ground, that is what 519 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: so many dynamic organizers are doing. That's what I see 520 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: in Dream Defenders, That's what I saw on a scot 521 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: As Daughters and Black Youth Project and the Black Translives 522 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: Matter kind of all of these movements, the Marsha P. 523 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: Johnson Institute. There's so many ways that I'm seeing that 524 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:29,240 Speaker 1: work manifested before we've named it, because the work comes first, 525 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: and then it's like, it's this right, It's like a 526 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: person is shot and killed, and in response to seeing 527 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: that person's life stuff, now we want to affirm that 528 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: they mattered, They matter to their community, they matter to 529 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: their loved ones, they matter because now we won't get 530 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: whatever gifts they were bringing into the world that we 531 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: may have needed, that we all may have needed at 532 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: some point right to move forward into the world that 533 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: we're seeking to create. That's where that mattering comes in. 534 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: And when I think about Black Lives Matter, I am 535 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: relating that as a concept of identifying something life affirming 536 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,760 Speaker 1: about this spectacular moment. So I only know Ayanna Stanley 537 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: Jones or Brianna Taylor, or Deborah Danner or Tunisia Anderson 538 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: because they were killed, but the people who live with 539 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: that every day, those individuals mattered to them in substantive 540 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: and real ways. And so when we say that as 541 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 1: a collective, I think part of that impulse is also 542 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: about affirming those connections and those intimacies and never letting 543 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: us forget that they matter to someone, and that mattering 544 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 1: is why we must continue to fight. So I see 545 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: it rallying, and then we move in ways that are 546 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: indicting of white supremacy. Let me tell you something, doctor 547 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: Trevia lindsay you are welcome back on wikashone any goddamn time. 548 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 1: I would like to, because I have to tell you 549 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: that this is one of the most i opening conversations 550 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: I've had in quite some time, just in the way 551 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: of thinking, just in the way of thinking about how 552 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: we are presenting the fight for justice. And I I 553 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,760 Speaker 1: had a Naha moment with you just now where I'm like, no, 554 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 1: it is it isn't just about presenting the fact that 555 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,439 Speaker 1: our lives and our communities matter. It is about, like 556 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: just your final point, the indictment of white supremacy. It 557 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 1: is that it is. It is about that, and that 558 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: to me is that the next iteration the shift that 559 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: I want to see on a on a national level, 560 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: on a on a mainstream media level, um type of space. So, friends, 561 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: the book is America, Goddamn Black Women and the Struggle 562 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: for Justice, Doctor Tree, the lindsay, please do come back 563 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: to Woke a f and drop some gems again. Absolutely, 564 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me friends. Like I 565 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: say at the end of each week, as we head 566 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: into the weekend, please do something each and every day 567 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: that is bringing you joy. I don't care what it is, 568 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: so long as it doesn't cause you harm or people 569 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: around you harm. But grab some joy, some sunshine, some air. 570 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: Take those quality deep deep breaths. We will continue to 571 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,760 Speaker 1: fight and get through this together, and we can only 572 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: do it if we are strong and well. Remember that 573 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 1: disease comes from dis ease, so we need to embrace 574 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: our ease in the midst of this tempest. That is 575 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: it for me today, dear friends, on Woke f as always, 576 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,240 Speaker 1: Power to the people and to all the people. Power, 577 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,879 Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.