1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to talk in politics. I hope you all had 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: a great Thanksgiving. If you're like me, you returned from 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: wherever you were gathering, or you re entered the work 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: week with a torrent of news, much of it very unsettling. 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: The President, for one, seems like totally off his rocker, 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: like he's lost it. He's threatening to invade Venezuela. He 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: can't stay awake in cabinet meetings. He's firing off some 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty social media tweets in less than 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: five hours. Guys, he even pardoned a Democrat. It's like 10 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: he's having a manic episode. But listen, that's what lousy 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: poll numbers and a terrible economy will do to you. 12 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: Then there's Pete the Warrior Princess hegseeth, who is under 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: serious fire for a double tap strike on a drug 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: boat in September and that IG report saying his use 15 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: of the signal chat app put troops in danger, you think, 16 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: And he's handling it predictably like a whiny coward, throwing 17 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: his own admirals under the bus. Meanwhile, Elise always the bridesmaid, 18 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: never the bride Stephonic is attempting a feud with House 19 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 1: Speaker Mike Johnson, and other Republicans have joined Margerie Taylor 20 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: Green and saying they too will retire from Congress. It's 21 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: always a sign of a healthy party that people are 22 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: fleeing it. Okay, this is all to say, I hope, 23 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: I hope you got a nice break from the news 24 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: and politics, because the fire hose is back on and 25 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's going to be on for the foreseeable future. 26 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: Over the break, I did come across an interesting op ed. 27 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: It was published just before the holiday. It's been making 28 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: the rounds. I don't know if you've seen it. It's 29 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: from Mel Robbins and a professor, and it was co 30 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: authored and it appeared in the New York Times. It's 31 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: titled life is too Short to Fight with your family. 32 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: It's not all that groundbreaking a concept that they introduced here. 33 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,639 Speaker 1: It was suggesting that you find common ground with family 34 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: members at the holidays and you put aside your differences, 35 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: whether it's lifestyle or life choices. 36 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: Or politics, whatever it may be. 37 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to read you an excerpt that I think 38 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: you might find interesting. You may think it's better for 39 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: your mental health to slowly distance yourself from someone you've 40 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: had difficulties with, but in the long run, it will 41 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: likely have a devastating impact on your happiness and well being. 42 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 1: As a professor studying family estrangement and an author and 43 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: podcast host, we've learned from very different vantage points that 44 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: most of us wait excruciatingly long to absorb this message. 45 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: Research on end of life regrets reveals a consistent pattern. 46 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: People don't regret missing out on a promotion or failing 47 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 1: to buy a bigger house. They regret not asking for forgiveness. 48 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: They regret not expressing their love. More often, they regret 49 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: holding a grudge, and they regret letting relationships with their 50 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: families and friends fall apart. You learn to be happy 51 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: in spite of things, and therein lies the secret learning 52 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: how to accept people as they are are, sometimes in 53 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: spite of who they are. 54 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:05,399 Speaker 3: Now. 55 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: Of course, it's great advice, I give it all the 56 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: time to not let politics become the center of your 57 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: life and dictate who you can be friends with and 58 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: who you can talk to. And it's also good advice 59 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: to not let old grudges divide your family in your relationships. 60 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: But let me also say it's also incredibly naive and 61 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: pretty dismissive of the real ways in which family dynamics 62 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: and lived experiences and generational divides work. Okay, it's getting 63 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: a lot of pushback for all these reasons, and not 64 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: just from folks who talk about going no contact with 65 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: parents or family who are toxic and abusive and bad 66 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: for them. That's a real thing, and in some cases 67 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: it's like the only way to deal with narcissists narcissistic 68 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: parents or siblings or kids. But it's also getting pushed 69 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: back from people who rightly understand that some gaps can't 70 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: be bridged by avoidance. How, for example, does the Holocaust 71 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: survivor of the family bridge the gap with the gen 72 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: z Anti submittic college kid at the other end of 73 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: the dinner table. How do you bridge the divide or 74 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: the family member who doesn't see your community as human 75 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: or deserving dignity. How do you break bread with someone 76 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: who supported Giddaly taking it out of the mouths of 77 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: kids during a government shutdown? Now, the OpEd says one 78 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: piece of advice people share over and over again in 79 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: interviews is simply to lighten up. Everything doesn't have to 80 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: be so darkly serious, and relationships don't have to be 81 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: a battle of wills. It's almost impossible to persuade someone 82 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: to adopt your perspective. It's easier to get them to 83 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: sit on the couch with you watching Jeopardy. Sure, sure, 84 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: but the divides I mention, these aren't esoteric ideas. These 85 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: are real things that real Americans all over the country 86 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: are dealing with, and it's hard to just tell them 87 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: suck it up, keep your thoughts to yourselves at Thanksgiving, 88 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,119 Speaker 1: because you might regret not watching that Jeopardy episode together 89 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: in forty years. Lightening up is not an option for 90 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: many people. If you're struggling to pay your bills, to 91 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: afford gas, to find a job, to take care of 92 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: a sick family member, to keep. 93 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 2: Your kids safe. 94 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: If you have a family member who's gotten sucked into 95 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,679 Speaker 1: a conspiracy theory rabbit hole, or a kid who's getting 96 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: radicalized by right wing neo Nazis online or left wing 97 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: neo Nazis online and you see them making terrible decisions, 98 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: or a mother in law who doesn't want you to 99 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: vaccinate your kids. I don't think lightening up is the answer. 100 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: As a parent, I don't think we should just let 101 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: them now. I bring another perspective to this too, as 102 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: a journalist, I think the answer to bad speech or 103 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: bad ideas is always more speech and more ideas, more talking, 104 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: more communicating, not pretending differences don't exist or that everything 105 00:05:59,040 --> 00:05:59,679 Speaker 1: is fine because. 106 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 2: There's a turkey on the table. I think the piece 107 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 2: miss is the point. 108 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: It's not that we're trying to change the minds of 109 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: family members when we stick up for what we believe. 110 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 1: How exhausting would that be. That's not the project. It's 111 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: that we're trying to be seen and heard and fully realized. 112 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: We're sticking up not just for ourselves, but in some 113 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: cases an entire community. And you might actually be the 114 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: only conduit your family has to an alternati viewpoint, so 115 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: it's important they hear from you and you hear from them. 116 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: I think avoiding these conversations to preserve what will only 117 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: become nominal, superficial relationships where no one's actually seeing anyone 118 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: on a deeper level because you're just there to watch 119 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: Jeopardy together once a year. It does nothing for your 120 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,679 Speaker 1: family dynamic. It also doesn't feed or nurture your soul. 121 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: It doesn't confront reality, It doesn't allow for those awesome 122 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: moments where real change can it does happen. There's a 123 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: reason the anti smittic college kid doesn't know what he's 124 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: doing or saying because he didn't have that conversation with 125 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: the Holocaust survivor there's a reason your uncle doesn't feel 126 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: weird throwing slurs around at dinner because he didn't have 127 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: a conversation with a victim of racism or violence. 128 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 2: Conversations matter. 129 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: They don't have to turn an every holiday meal into 130 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: a haranguing lecture. 131 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: That would be gross too. 132 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: But they can turn every holiday meal into an opportunity 133 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: to learn from one another across generations and cultures. 134 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: And that doesn't happen if you decide. 135 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: To keep it superficial, so no one ever feels uncomfortable. 136 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: And you can also decide for the health of. 137 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: Your mind in your family that you're going to skip 138 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: the holiday get together because it's just two upsettings. That's 139 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: okay too. I have a great guest to dig a 140 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: little deeper into this with me. Scott Stenholm is an 141 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: Emmy nominated producer and writer who's work on streaming series 142 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: has been seen everywhere from HBO to Disney to the 143 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: BBCNT GEO, Amazon, and more. And he and I were 144 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: talking months ago about what's going on in Hollywood, both 145 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: from like a business perspective, but also the role Hollywood 146 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: should and shouldn't play in politics and should and shouldn't 147 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: play in our lives. He has some really really interesting 148 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: and important insights and ideas to share, so I'm thrilled 149 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: to have him join Talking Politics today. 150 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 4: Welcome Scott, Thank you, good to see you. 151 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 2: How was your Thanksgiving? 152 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 4: Well, I was in LA and all of my family 153 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 4: was in Chicago. 154 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 2: So how did that? 155 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 4: You have to ask them? I don't know. No, it 156 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 4: was it was fine. It was Uh, it was good. 157 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 4: It was amazing. No one is in LA during Thanksgiving, 158 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 4: so it's so beaceful. 159 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. So you had a little time to yourself, which 160 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: is which is nice? 161 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, heading back to Chicago for the big holiday. 162 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: Okay, so what what? But what is usually the family 163 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: dynamic like for you? 164 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 4: Yeah? 165 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 2: At these functions? 166 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 4: Uh. So. I grew up in a conservative town with 167 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 4: Republican parents. My grandparents were evangelical professors at Bob Jones 168 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 4: University in Greenville, South Carolina. Uh, and I lived in 169 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 4: West Hollywood, California. Got a liberal Hollywood producer Mike, because 170 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 4: a lot of my cousins, my brother, you know, a 171 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 4: lot of people in my family are liberal, younger people mostly. 172 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 4: But the dynamic is largely lovely. It's delightful. I love 173 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 4: my family, I love my town. You know. I grew 174 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 4: up like at a Norman Rockwell painting like I love 175 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 4: you know. So I've had the experience of being in 176 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 4: both sides, right, yeah, And we've gotten into politics, you know, 177 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 4: during the holidays, and it doesn't go well. Uhuh, it 178 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 4: does it does not go well. 179 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think you have to know your family, right, Like, 180 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: I come from a family of debaters. When I when 181 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk politics at home, it's because 182 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: I do it for a living. 183 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 2: So it's just it's tiring. 184 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: But I do it a lot because I really do 185 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: want to hear from my parents and my family members. 186 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: And whether I agree or doesn't is not always the point. 187 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: I just want to hear a perspective. And if you 188 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: have a family where you can have those conversations, I 189 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: don't think it's necessary to avoid them. 190 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: But what's your take on that? On the avoidance argument? 191 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 4: Okay, so I'll give you a Hollywood example that was 192 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 4: very uh that really rubbed me the wrong way, made 193 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 4: made national headlines, and I had a personal connection to it. 194 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 4: So I don't know if you remember a few years 195 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 4: ago Gina Carano, who was on the Mandalorian, she was 196 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 4: she was basically canceled. She was canceled from Hollywood, she 197 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 4: lost her agent for I don't she talked to It 198 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 4: was it was during COVID. It was during the shutdown, 199 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 4: and she had tweeted things I don't even remember. I 200 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 4: remember some of the general uh you know, Tony tenor 201 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 4: of what she was tweeting, but it was it was 202 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 4: about like comparing the suppression to people who didn't want 203 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 4: to take the vaccine to like, you know, the Nazis, 204 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 4: And she was like, that's too much. I don't remember 205 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 4: exactly what she was saying. It was, yeah, okay, it 206 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 4: was too much in my opinion. It was nowhere near 207 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 4: my ideological spectrum. It was. I did not agree with 208 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 4: anything she said. But I had worked on a Disney 209 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 4: Plus original series not too long after or not too 210 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 4: recently before this happened, and she was a guest on it, 211 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 4: and she was utterly delight. She was so sweet, so approachable. 212 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 4: One of that we had like I think it was, 213 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 4: you know, forty guests, forty or fifty guests that were 214 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 4: celebrities on that show. You know, it's with Jim Henson Company. 215 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 4: It was a lovely production, and she was kind of 216 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 4: like a shining beacon in among the guests. She was 217 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 4: so incredible, and you could tell both in the way 218 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 4: that she acted, the way that she conducted herself, and 219 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 4: the way that she interacted with everyone, that she loved 220 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 4: to be there. She loved what she was doing in 221 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 4: Hollywood in film, and like she loved to be on 222 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 4: set and she was taking pictures and she was just 223 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 4: so happy to be there, right and you know, she 224 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 4: was like giving everyone her phone number. She loved her job. 225 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 4: And then when that all went down, I was like, 226 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 4: Okay that I don't agree with all this, that's not good. 227 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 4: But then what the powers that be did was kind 228 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 4: of gross to me because if for no other reason, 229 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 4: then it's counterproductive because all what happened was when they said, 230 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 4: in essence, we don't agree with you, go away forever, 231 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 4: forever silence. So did she Is there any chance she's 232 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 4: going to see where she may have been informed? No, 233 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 4: she's going to go to her keeper deeper, right, and 234 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 4: that's what she did. That's exactly what she did. And 235 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 4: you know it doesn't mean that I agree. 236 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 2: With that, of course. Yeah. 237 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm a fan of reality TV, Scott 238 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: and I you know, we've come to these moments over 239 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: the course of the history of reality TV where someone 240 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: has off the show tweeted something in politic tweeted something offensive, 241 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 1: and then the question is how do we deal with 242 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: it on the show. And I I never think firing 243 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: the person, canceling them and scrubbing them from episodes is 244 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: the answer. What I want to see this dealt with 245 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: on the show, the real world implications of you know, 246 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: what you learned, who you heard from, who you had 247 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: to talk to to like realize why this was offensive 248 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: or why this hurt people. That's the gift of having 249 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: a platform like that where you can do that. I 250 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: think canceling and firing and just pretends that those viewpoints 251 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: don't exist, it's all nothing. 252 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 4: Yes, So I am you know, I've been in bleeding 253 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 4: heart tree hug liberal most of my life, you know, 254 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 4: and and I and and you know, I almost hesitate 255 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 4: to say this, but as as this is, as we're 256 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 4: talking about this there's something happening in my family where 257 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 4: my cousin, one of my cousins, he's very liberal, and 258 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 4: he has been, for lack of a better term, really 259 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 4: just like disenfranchising himself, breaking himself away from the rest 260 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 4: of the family and just lobbing really kind of dark 261 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 4: stuff at the adults and even some of the cousins 262 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 4: and his and his siblings and stuff. And when we 263 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 4: try to respond to these things, he either ignores us 264 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 4: or it's like vitriol, and it is he is hurting, yes, 265 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 4: very much. And this idea that anything ever is going 266 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 4: to get done by just yelling into the void and 267 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 4: not having a conversation. Yeah, is there's no sense of 268 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 4: history there, There's none. Yeah, that's I mean nothing. Imagine 269 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 4: if Martin Luther King, I mean yeah, you know, imagine 270 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 4: Martin Luther King had not you know, gone to the 271 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 4: White House and sat down and talked with people who 272 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 4: opposed his views. And you know this, this cancel culture 273 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 4: has seeped into our families and our friends. It's challenging, 274 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 4: not helping. 275 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's challenging to deal with all of this. And 276 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: like I say, these real dynamics are playing out inside 277 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: of our families, and increasingly we all know someone affected 278 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: by some kind of political you know issue on either side, 279 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: and so it's really, I think important that we do 280 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: engage on these things. Again, it doesn't have to orient 281 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: our entire life, and it doesn't have to be these 282 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: these you know, lectures at the dinner table. But I 283 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: don't think canceling cutting people out, you know, I'm not 284 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: sure that that's the answer either. You and I talked 285 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: a bit ago, and you talked about how Hollywood can 286 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: be an important reorienting tool, an important escape and outlet, 287 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: and especially when it comes to like social media addiction 288 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: and kids. I worry about this so much, not just 289 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: getting addicted to social media, but it like distorting the 290 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: way my kid thinks and also radicalizing kids, like I said, 291 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: towards conspiracy theories and political garbage. And you say Hollywood 292 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: can play an important role in this, both in conversation 293 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: at these family functions, but also in sort of reorienting 294 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: where are our kids or people who might be struggling 295 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: with mental health, re orienting them to something more productive? 296 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 2: Talk about that? 297 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, So it actually, I mean I've been saying this 298 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 4: personally and with fellow colleagues But what really kind of 299 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 4: got me onto this, this narrative that it's sort of 300 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 4: become my mission in Hollywood is to get my other 301 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 4: colleagues in the industry to take this up and just 302 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 4: parents around the world and people around the world. Is 303 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 4: Hollywood is actually healthy for us in many respects. I'm 304 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 4: not saying your six year old should be watching you know, 305 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 4: uh Sinners, Breaking bad, but right, breaking bad? Probably not. No. 306 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 4: But I was watching Jonathan Hyatt, who is say, you 307 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 4: know this world renowned social psychologist, and he was talking 308 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 4: on a podcast over the summer, and he mentioned he 309 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 4: said there was a distinction being good and bad screens, right, 310 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 4: And so, as a producer with nieces and nephews that 311 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 4: I love dearly, I was worried that like what we 312 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 4: were doing out here in Hollywood was contributing to this 313 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 4: bad screen time, right And No, actually not really at all. 314 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 4: Obviously the normal restrictions for kids and people in terms 315 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 4: of like what they should and shouldn't watch. But narrative 316 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 4: storytelling where there's a moral universe, where there's good there's bad, 317 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 4: people are overcoming adversity, they're over you know, they're they're 318 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 4: getting themselves out of funks there. You know, they're they're 319 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 4: getting out there like because we're living, solving problems, right, 320 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 4: interacting with different types of people from all walks of life. 321 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 4: That is healthy, it is it helps to like build 322 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 4: moral character. And it also we're dealing with an isolation crisis, 323 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 4: a loneliness crisis, and an anxious crisis, not just with kids, 324 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 4: but people of all ages because largely because of not 325 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 4: screens across the board, but screens where there's a dopamine 326 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 4: hit all the time. And so he said, here's a 327 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 4: good example of a good version of screen time where 328 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 4: you're watching a story, there's a moral universe, and you 329 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 4: get something out of it, you can absorb it, and 330 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 4: you're not interacting with your screen. 331 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: You know, my kid and so many kids are are 332 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: getting so used to that limited attention span, like the 333 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: five minute you know, the five minute video of someone 334 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: unboxing a toy or playing a video game. And there's 335 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: a difference between that and like a feature length ninety 336 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: minute story that really like engrosses a kid or an 337 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: adult into an escape into a world, as opposed to 338 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: just these like rapid fire as you say, like dopamine 339 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: hit videos. 340 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, for two reasons one. And by the way, five 341 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 4: minutes is if you're lucky like often you know, like 342 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 4: they're often ten seconds, thirty seconds, right, you know, you 343 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 4: know and so, and you can't absorb anything, even if 344 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 4: it is a positive message. So you're just getting the 345 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 4: dope mean hit, right. 346 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 347 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 4: But with with television and film, where it's a narrative 348 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 4: storytelling experience, you're not part of the equation. Has nothing 349 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 4: to do with you sit down, shut up and write, 350 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 4: experience something else. That's that people are going outside of yourself, 351 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 4: outside of yourself. It doesn't mean that like we're in 352 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 4: Hollywood or being in Hollywood is trying to say listen 353 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 4: to what we have to say. It's like it's good 354 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 4: for you too if you're going through something like I was, 355 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 4: you know, going through a hard time last year, and 356 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 4: I was, I watched The Bear and it brought me 357 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 4: out of my funk in a way that like almost 358 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 4: nothing else could. Yeah, you know, and they're countless stories 359 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 4: like that. I do. 360 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: I have those stories too because I've struggled with my 361 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: mental health and well, of course I'm in therapy and 362 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: I you know, do all the all the hard work, 363 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: but sometimes the best thing for me is to escape 364 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: into reality television, turn off the news, turn off my phone, 365 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: turn off social media, and watch nonsense. 366 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 2: It's not educational. 367 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm not making the pitch that reality television is somehow educational. 368 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: But as an adult, I can make a decision. I 369 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: just need to zone out. I need to get outside 370 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: of myself and you know, or watching a show together 371 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: with my husband, yes, you know, it gives us stuff 372 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: to talk about. Yes, that isn't ourselves all the time, 373 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: right right, gives us a planned regular like a meetup time. 374 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: We're going to do this once a week, or we're 375 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: going to do this every night or whatever it is. 376 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: That's also the experience too. And you say having shows 377 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: and films to talk about can also solve this like 378 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: this holiday conundrum. 379 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know, Hollywood is stereotypically, you know, viewed 380 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 4: very liberal, and that's there's there's fairness to that. But 381 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 4: what we put out is pretty good in all time zones, 382 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 4: like there are options for people, you know, Like just 383 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 4: this week, the top streaming series in the top time 384 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 4: the top five, Number one was streaming Things or streaming 385 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 4: things Stranger Things, and I think number three was Landman 386 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 4: could not pick more polar opposite storylines. You know, the 387 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 4: people behind it, you know, the people watching it, Like 388 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 4: I do think there is a large crossover people who 389 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,239 Speaker 4: watch it, including myself, those two shows. But you know, 390 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 4: it isn't like we aren't creating narrative content, you know, 391 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 4: narrative stories that like people in Oklahoma, Yeah, will appreciate, 392 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 4: and people in you know, Brooklyn will appreciate of course. 393 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 4: And by the way, those two places are watching the 394 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 4: same shows in many cases, you know, so even it's 395 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 4: it's not too dissimilar from sports. You know, like when 396 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 4: I if I if I can't talk to my family 397 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 4: about politics sometimes if it gets to heated or it 398 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 4: just you know, needs to no good, But I can 399 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 4: always talk about the Cubs. Always is fine, It's always good. 400 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 4: And it's it's you know, we we have that we 401 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 4: share that shared connection and it shows it is how 402 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 4: we connect on a human level because it shows what 403 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 4: we care about. And uh, and the same thing goes 404 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 4: with shows or movies, you know, and show especially because 405 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 4: there's a weekly thing, right series, so you can so 406 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 4: it carries on. Did you see last night's episode? 407 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 408 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: You know, this is the conversation we'll have with my 409 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: parents whenever we meet up when we see them often, 410 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: what are you watching now? 411 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 2: Are you caught up on this? Tell me where you 412 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: are on this so I. 413 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 1: Don't spoil it, and like, yeah, it's always created sort 414 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: of a run of show for that we we're going 415 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: to talk about because there's yeah, there's always something we're watching. 416 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, because think about it. And again, I I not 417 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 4: you know reality TV has placed at all that, but 418 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 4: especially with you know, scripted stuff. 419 00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 3: Sure, it it's it's it's fun to talk about, but 420 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 3: if you look at it on a more like a 421 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 3: deeper level, you're talking about how you're feeling about it. 422 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,239 Speaker 4: You're talking about what you got out of it and 423 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 4: what it says about you. Yeah, you know, like when 424 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 4: you talk to somebody about like the bear or hacks 425 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 4: or Landman or shrinking or whatever, shrinking you know, yeah, 426 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 4: you name it ted Lasso. But there's just so many, 427 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:27,719 Speaker 4: even Wednesday and stranger things. You know, you're talking like 428 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 4: why do we love these things? Because it isn't Yes, 429 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 4: there's special effects and it's cool, and you know, like 430 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 4: sometimes there's like salacious things in it, but the vast 431 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 4: majority of the time it's about the humanity. It's about 432 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 4: the story, how it affected you, whether it made you 433 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 4: laugh or it made you cry, whether it made you 434 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 4: feel better, whether it inspired you. And even if you 435 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 4: don't say that out loud, yeah, the odds are you're 436 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 4: talking about it because of one of those. 437 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: Things I'm remembering. There was this like boomer scold when 438 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: when I was a kid, like TV's gonna rot your brain. 439 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 440 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: I think, first of all, we have bigger concerns now, 441 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: but also the TV product has just gotten so good 442 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: and it's a window into so many worlds. It's a 443 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: real escape and an outlet to hear someone like Jonathan Hate, 444 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: you know, yes, writer of anxious generation and someone who's 445 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: really a scholar on anxiety and what we're consuming to say, No, 446 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: this is good screen time. 447 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, and by the way, eye opening. So I reached 448 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,199 Speaker 4: out to him after I saw that podcast, and like, 449 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 4: I talked to his people and they were like, yes, 450 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 4: we were trying to get Hollywood like honest. But I 451 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 4: didn't stop at him, like I did my due diligence, 452 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 4: you know, prety certainly, And I reached out to psychologists 453 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 4: therapists around the world. I talked to trauma specialists, I 454 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 4: talked to, you know, psychologists in DC who have worked, 455 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 4: you know, for the military and whatnot, and I can't 456 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 4: tell you there were at least three, you know that 457 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 4: I talked to you that said, oh, I have a 458 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 4: list of show and movies that I basically hand out 459 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 4: like a prescription, wow to my patience. And a lot 460 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 4: of times it's divvied up into sections like someone going 461 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 4: through something like this, watch this. Is someone went through 462 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 4: something like this, watch this, and and they're like because 463 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 4: one of the reasons why that's so effective is because 464 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 4: and then this is especially important today when we're dealing 465 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 4: with isolation, people who feel isolated from society, is that, 466 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 4: you know, one of the trauma specialists told me this. 467 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 4: She said, television especially is one of the few things 468 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 4: that can get into those spaces from a safe distance 469 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 4: where you can reorient yourself with society and other people 470 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 4: from a safe distance, right, Because isolated people feel like 471 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 4: they are different or wrong or broken, and they don't. 472 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 4: They don't. They will not seek out other people. Yeah, so, 473 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 4: but they will watch a show and sit back and 474 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 4: watch what's happening, and they'll okay, okay, well he kind 475 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 4: of even if subconscious like, well he got out of that, okay, okay. 476 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, and how that has to be better than the 477 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:21,719 Speaker 1: isolated person reaching out to some underground community on Reddit. 478 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah. 479 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, it absolutely does. Because there's no say what you 480 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 4: will about Hollywood, and you could say a lot like 481 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 4: you could, I think for any industry. But for the 482 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 4: most part, Uh, we're pretty good at you know, not 483 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 4: being radical, you know, not not going So we don't 484 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 4: go too dark unless we label it that way, you know. 485 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 2: What I mean. 486 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 4: We don't. We don't sugarcoat it. Like if we're putting 487 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 4: out a horror movie, we don't sugarcoat it. Is like, 488 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 4: oh yeah, we're just helping men, right, you know what 489 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 4: I mean. Yeah, So, like we we have our ratings 490 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 4: and PG thirteen and PG and like you know, there 491 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 4: is there is distinction between what we put out and 492 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 4: what is being put out. And also, by the way, 493 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 4: something that you are interacting with and you are having 494 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 4: creating a like interaction with these dark forces is different, 495 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 4: you know, right right, study at their studies since like 496 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 4: you know, the eighties has basically found that that you know, 497 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 4: every they always wanted to put like but school shootings 498 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 4: or you know, bad things that would happen in society 499 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 4: on Hollywood, and it turns out and every study wasn't 500 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,239 Speaker 4: the case. Yeah, but every study that we're seeing when 501 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 4: it comes to social media, especially now, there is a 502 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 4: huge correlation between mental health and the problems in our 503 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 4: society today with with those things. 504 00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 2: I believe it. 505 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: I know it, I read about it, I write about it. 506 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: I so agree before I let you go, you know, 507 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: it's going to be award show season, like in a minute, 508 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: it's around the corner in the spring. And those Hollywood 509 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: speeches always ruffle some feathers. 510 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 2: What what's your take on the way that. 511 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: Actors and artists use their platforms to discuss like causes 512 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: and world events. 513 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 4: Okay, so I I would never you know, I'm the 514 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 4: last person to say, don't be a you know, don't 515 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 4: have a political mind, don't have an opinion of you. 516 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 4: I spent most of my career working on just like 517 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 4: I met you at real time with Bill Martin. Yeah right, 518 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 4: you know, because you know that, I mean like it's 519 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 4: not like I'm like, you know, just working on Disney stuff. 520 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 4: Yeah right, I've been on political stuff. And so that said, 521 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 4: I think that we've now the jury is in in 522 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 4: terms of like how the rest of the world views 523 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 4: us talking about politics, especially in those moments. It's not 524 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 4: it doesn't move the needle, and it doesn't like it 525 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 4: doesn't help campaigns. We in fact, oftentimes it has a 526 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 4: reourse effect, right. But more than that, I would like 527 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 4: my colleagues, from producers, actors, writers, directors, whoever gets on 528 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 4: that stage, whoever's on a podcast, whoever's doing anything, if 529 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 4: you really want to help the world, talk about the 530 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 4: thing that we are making that really can help the world. 531 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 4: Because Hollywood has is in trouble. We are going through 532 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 4: a really difficult time right now. We are at a crossroads. 533 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 4: We've got new media, social media, AI, a contraction of 534 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 4: the industry. All these things happening. And I don't care 535 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 4: and neither does the public what you think about what's 536 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 4: going on in Gaza. But if you really want to 537 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 4: help people, because there is an epidemic of mental illness, 538 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 4: problems and polarization going on, if you really want to 539 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 4: help people, talk about how your show you know is 540 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 4: good for you, is good for everyone you know the 541 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 4: stories in it. I love that what we should be 542 00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 4: talking about. 543 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: That so much, And I hate when Hollywood is maligned 544 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: because I love Hollywood. I love Hollywood so much. I 545 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: love what Hollywood makes. I love going and visiting Hollywood, 546 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: and I want to celebrate Hollywood. It gets hard sometimes 547 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: when you see those speeches that are just so out 548 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: of touch with like and I would never tell an 549 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: actor or an artist to not have political opinions either, 550 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: But I think I love what you're saying so much 551 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: because I want you to go up there and celebrate 552 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: Hollywood and tell me why what you're making is so great. 553 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 4: Yes, and just and maybe this has nothing we're talking about, 554 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 4: but this is something that is a little bit of 555 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 4: a gripe with me. And look, I've been nominated for 556 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 4: the Emmys. I know the people in the Academy, member 557 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 4: of the Academy, But like, guys, when you're up there, 558 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 4: talk about the people who are watching your shows. I 559 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 4: know we have to thank our agents and our reproducers 560 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 4: and the guy at Craft Services. How about we take 561 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 4: let's take like, I don't know, thirty seconds to talk 562 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 4: about the people who we owe our livelihoods too. Right 563 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 4: all around the world, and we're talking about legions of people. 564 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 4: If you go online after an episode of like a 565 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 4: popular show and you see like these feeds it is 566 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 4: wall to wall stranger things ye like White Lotus, Severance, 567 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 4: everything like that. And then when the people win these awards, 568 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 4: I don't I get it because I'm a producer. 569 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 3: I know. 570 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 4: You get up there and you're just so like there's 571 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 4: so much going on and you have the crew and 572 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 4: the cast and you just have so many people to 573 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 4: think and like whatever, and you don't want to leave 574 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 4: anybody out. But we are kind of leaving out the 575 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 4: people who we owe the most to, right because otherwise 576 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 4: it turns into a three hour infomercial about how great 577 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 4: we are. Yes, And I don't like that. 578 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 2: I don't either. 579 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 4: You know, the Oscars, the Grammys, the Emmys, like all 580 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 4: of it, the Golden Globes, it all, and we wonder why, 581 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,719 Speaker 4: like we get a bad rep yep, you know, Like 582 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 4: I try to get the Emmys to do a montage 583 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 4: basically talking about how Hollywood's like healthy for us. 584 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and. 585 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 4: Like the producers just ignored it. 586 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, something they're not getting, you. 587 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 4: Know, and and how it could be healthy for people. Yeah. 588 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 3: You know. 589 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, we got to stop. We're looking inward and we 590 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 4: need to engage more and look outward. 591 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: Well, I've loved this conversation, Scott. I know when you 592 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: and I talked a bit ago, I was kind of 593 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: you gave me so much to think about. 594 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 2: I thought, we've got to do this. We've got to 595 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 2: do this on. 596 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: The podcast because it is about politics, but it's also 597 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: about mental health. These are all the things I love 598 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: to talk about and Hollywood. So thanks for all of 599 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: your really really interesting ideas. 600 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 2: I loved it. 601 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 4: Thanks Scott, well, you know I love you. Thanks Raham, 602 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 4: you do, thank him. 603 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 3: Well. 604 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: Thanks to Scott for joining me, and I hope you 605 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,479 Speaker 1: know keep on making great art for all of us 606 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: to watch and talk about and escape into. 607 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 2: That's it for this week. Don't forget to check out 608 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 2: Off the Cup. 609 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: There's new episodes every week and Talking Coffee our extra 610 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: caf NATed Hot takes on our favorite hot and iced beverage. 611 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 2: See you next time. 612 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,879 Speaker 1: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as 613 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: part of the Reason Choice Network. 614 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 2: If you want more, check out the other Reason. 615 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: Choice podcasts Spolitics with Jamel Hill and Native Land Pod. 616 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: For Off the Cup, I am your host, Si Cup. 617 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: Editing and sound design by Derek Clements, our executive producers 618 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: are Me, Si Cup, Lauren. 619 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 2: Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. 620 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts, Follow or 621 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 1: subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.