Speaker 1: Also media, Well, come to Behind the Bastards, a podcast
Speaker 1: about the very worst people in all of history that
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you just want to change up how you introduce
Speaker 2: your show, you know, just the same way every time.
Speaker 3: This guy this is the biggest bastard.
Speaker 4: Yeah, guy, this guy's in the running, is to say, right, yeah,
Speaker 4: he's way up there.
Speaker 2: He's a bigger bastard than all the pollen in the
Speaker 2: fucking air right now is turning.
Speaker 4: Out of control, I know.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, terrible. Another twelve months of winter. Come on, guys,
Speaker 2: the real winter. This time.
Speaker 4: I have the opposite, you know when people are like,
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, I get seasonal depression in the winter.
Speaker 3: It's like, no winter, rock.
Speaker 2: Yep, winter is so much better. You know what's even
Speaker 2: better than winter? Learning about a Well, Courtney's gonna start
Speaker 2: anyway with our guest Courtney Kosa. Hello, Courtney, how are
Speaker 2: you feeling? Hello as we talk about this monster?
Speaker 5: Glad to be back for another horrific episode?
Speaker 2: Oh good, well, we're glad to have you back. We
Speaker 2: love having you on the show. We love tormenting you
Speaker 2: with horrible things. That's what you do with your friends,
Speaker 2: you know, you gather together, spend time talking about Jimmy Saville.
Speaker 3: That's what you do with your friend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I don't have that many of them.
Speaker 3: That's what Jimmy Savile does with his friends, is.
Speaker 2: What Jimmy Saville did with his friends. Yeah, yeah, talking
Speaker 2: about a lot of these same crimes. I presume with
Speaker 2: his cop friends at least.
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: So we left off last episode with me mentioning that
Speaker 2: we're going to talk more about the Duncroft approved school
Speaker 2: for girls and like approved schools or government approved schools
Speaker 2: where you like send kids who were having trouble. Right.
Speaker 2: One of the things happening at the time is that
Speaker 2: in this period of like mental health history in the UK,
Speaker 2: there's this kind of belief that you have a girls
Speaker 2: or kids in general, who are having specific kinds of
Speaker 2: problems that are like troubled mentally to a significant extent.
Speaker 2: In some cases, it's best if the state treats them
Speaker 2: rather than their family. Right, And Duncroft is an experimental
Speaker 2: facility which sought to use psychotherapy too, as Davi's rights
Speaker 2: for in his book In Plain Sight correct the behavioral
Speaker 2: defects of the girls placed in its Care. Duncroft was
Speaker 2: specifically a school for troubled girls who were seen as intelligent.
Speaker 2: Right now, what that really means is that these are
Speaker 2: the children of prominent and wealthy families primarily, not like exclusively,
Speaker 2: but a lot of Duncroft girls come from quote unquote
Speaker 2: good families right per the book In Plain Sight, girls
Speaker 2: were sent to Duncroft for a variety of misdemeanors. One
Speaker 2: girl who arrived at the school as a fourteen year
Speaker 2: old in nineteen seventy two insisted years later that half
Speaker 2: the girls were there as punishment for being the victims
Speaker 2: of sexual abuse, the crime of having sex underage, as
Speaker 2: we thought it. Others were put in Margaret Jones's care,
Speaker 2: that's the woman running the facility, for dabbling with drugs
Speaker 2: and arexia, attempting suicide, or for running away from children's
Speaker 2: homes or abusive parents. So some of these kids are
Speaker 2: just kids who you know, got have been shuffled through
Speaker 2: the system, but were noted as being like intelligence, and
Speaker 2: so maybe you know it's worth trying to reform them.
Speaker 2: But a lot of these girls are like rich girls
Speaker 2: who have embarrassed their parents.
Speaker 3: And it's a really good way to say it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and often embarrassed them by getting molested, sometimes
Speaker 2: by their parents or by an uncle or something one
Speaker 2: of these rich creeps. Yeah, so that's kind of what's
Speaker 2: going on here now. As I noted, the headmistress of
Speaker 2: the school for much of its existence was Margaret Jones,
Speaker 2: and she absolutely loved Jimmy Savile. Because Duncroft was a
Speaker 2: school for the daughters of prominent people, attracted a lot
Speaker 2: of celebrity attention when fundraising was needed. Savell very quickly
Speaker 2: became the most prominent and reliable, famous friend of the school.
Speaker 2: For an obvious reason. It gave him access to teenaged girls.
Speaker 2: Because Saville was seen as a good volunteer, he was
Speaker 2: allowed to sleep overnight at Duncroft with some regularity. He
Speaker 2: was even allowed to take Yeah. Yeah, they let him
Speaker 2: crash there.
Speaker 3: Yea, that is crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's wild. How many hospitals and facilities just do that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he stays overnight a bunch of times. Uh huh, happens constantly.
Speaker 2: He was even allowed to take girls off campus in
Speaker 2: his car for day trips. Many of these patients were
Speaker 2: eager for the opportunity to escape because this is a
Speaker 2: it's not a fun place to be, right. Margaret's theory
Speaker 2: is that one of the ways you fix these kids
Speaker 2: who have behavioral problems you give them like shitloads of chores,
Speaker 2: so like constant chores or seems like a therapeutic aid.
Speaker 2: So it's a boring place where you're being kept away
Speaker 2: from like your friends and your music and like parties
Speaker 2: and the things that like a normal age girl would like,
Speaker 2: and you're just doing chores all the time. And then
Speaker 2: this famous guy shows up and is like, Hey, anybody
Speaker 2: want to ride? You want to leave school for a day? Right,
Speaker 2: you can see why this is appealing to a lot
Speaker 2: of these young ladies.
Speaker 4: Yeah, starting at nineteen six running these places that are.
Speaker 2: Allowing Margaret Jones, qualified people, Sophie, qualified people who love
Speaker 2: this man Jimmy, who's just good at raising money. He's
Speaker 2: a saint. He's the next best thing to a saint
Speaker 2: pretty much. You know, all he does is raise money
Speaker 2: for good costs and volunteer. Is time these other celebrities
Speaker 2: are out partying and living it up. Jimmy's volunteering as
Speaker 2: an orderly you know, at a bunch of hospitals, like
Speaker 2: a surprising suspicious number of hospitals and he sleeps there
Speaker 2: a lot. What a great guy. Now starting. One of
Speaker 2: the weird things about this is that Margaret's nephew is
Speaker 2: a guy named Myron Jones, and it's spelled weird in
Speaker 2: the British way. Myron Jones becomes like a journalist, like
Speaker 2: a BBC journalist, and actually he is one of the
Speaker 2: guys who will report on Jimmy later, but as like
Speaker 2: a kid, he just is seeing Jimmy at Duncroft regularly
Speaker 2: when he's visiting his aunt, and like I think his
Speaker 2: parents both work there at least part time, so he's
Speaker 2: around Duncroft all the time, and he just notes like
Speaker 2: weird guys around a lot. He would later say he
Speaker 2: was full of banter, though had no real conversation as such.
Speaker 2: I had a feeling that he was somebody with whom
Speaker 2: you didn't really know what was going on. One time,
Speaker 2: Myron saw Saville leave the school with three girls in
Speaker 2: the back of his convertible. He recalls his parents getting
Speaker 2: angry about this and confronting his aunt about it, and
Speaker 2: her response was just he's a friend of the school.
Speaker 2: Why are you worried? He's a friend of the school.
Speaker 2: It's okay, it's fine, don't look into it. Good so convenient,
Speaker 2: it's really convenient. We don't know how many Duncroft girls
Speaker 2: were abused by Saville, but after the coming of the Internet,
Speaker 2: increasing numbers of former patients began discussing abuse that they
Speaker 2: had endured while at Duncroft on the Internet. In two
Speaker 2: thousand and eight, and at that point, fifty year old
Speaker 2: woman named Carrie wrote a biography as part of a
Speaker 2: therapeutic exercise to deal with a lifetime of trauma and
Speaker 2: abuse which had started in care homes and approved schools,
Speaker 2: including Duncroft, where she'd been sent in nineteen seventy two
Speaker 2: at age fourteen. So she writes, this autobiography is like
Speaker 2: a therapeutic exercise, and she publishes it online. And in
Speaker 2: this online autobiography she writes about the people who molested her,
Speaker 2: one of whom was a celebrity, and she doesn't want
Speaker 2: to give his name because again the UK has really
Speaker 2: strict libel laws, so she just calls him JS. Who
Speaker 2: do we think that is?
Speaker 3: I got one guess?
Speaker 2: Could it be Dame Judy Dench. I don't know, you know,
Speaker 2: it's impossible to say she's wrapped it in such a
Speaker 2: cipher we'll never know likely. Yeah, So she writes about
Speaker 2: this celebrity JS who visits Duncroft regularly and whenever he
Speaker 2: shows up, he brings cartons of cigarettes for the girls
Speaker 2: and records which he hands out his gifts. That tells
Speaker 2: you a lot about the time. That like the number
Speaker 2: one gift for fourteen year old girls cigarettes, cigarettes and records.
Speaker 2: And it's so normal, Like the facility is like, of
Speaker 2: course the girls can have cigarettes. Obviously, we got to
Speaker 2: keep them away from their friends and from like going
Speaker 2: to shows and hang it out, but they can smoke.
Speaker 2: Of course, we're not demons here. Obviously they need their
Speaker 2: three packs a day. Jesus, I was reading something. We're
Speaker 2: like in the sixties, the average American smoked like four
Speaker 2: thousand cigarettes a year. What a time we need to
Speaker 2: go back now that we know they're harmless. I think
Speaker 2: we need to go back to smoking all the time. Guys,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Enough.
Speaker 2: This is an episode sponsored by the Health Cigarette. The
Speaker 2: health cigarette. It's a cigarette. It's good for you. We
Speaker 2: haven't figured it out yet, but if you give us
Speaker 2: enough money, we'll invent one.
Speaker 3: It's the one funny part.
Speaker 2: It's the one funny part is that all these kids
Speaker 2: are chain smoking. Oh man, just cartons. Yes, this man
Speaker 2: came to the girls school with cartons of cigarettes and
Speaker 2: records and then stayed overnight. No way to have known
Speaker 2: he was doing something bad. How could we have guessed
Speaker 2: he was hurting these kids.
Speaker 4: The least he should have done to these kids is
Speaker 4: give them cancer.
Speaker 2: So Carrie came to cherish Savile's visits because it meant
Speaker 2: an escape from her boring, ordinary day to day life,
Speaker 2: and it meant that she got attention. Right, Kids like attention.
Speaker 2: Kids need attention. It is good for them to some extent,
Speaker 2: like it's necessary for children to have attention from adults.
Speaker 2: And when you're in a place, your fucking family's basically
Speaker 2: been like, yeah, ship her off to the fucking kid
Speaker 2: jail where you're just doing chores all the fuck. You're
Speaker 2: desperate for attention. And here is a famous charismatic guy
Speaker 2: beloved by the whole country, including the royals and the
Speaker 2: Prime Minister, and he's paying attention to you. You can
Speaker 2: see why that's appealing to a fucking fourteen year old,
Speaker 2: fifteen year old girl, right, So she likes the visits
Speaker 2: like she cherishes them, but she also writes quote it
Speaker 2: it being hanging out and going on a day trip
Speaker 2: with Jimmy also meant one had to put up with
Speaker 2: being mauled and groped when he pulled into a lay
Speaker 2: by some five miles along the road. I wasn't the
Speaker 2: only girl JS favored with this either. In fact, he
Speaker 2: often tried to press me to go further than simply
Speaker 2: fondling him and allowing him to grope inside my knickers
Speaker 2: at my partly formed breasts. He promised me all manner
Speaker 2: of good things if I would give him oral sex,
Speaker 2: and eventually she agrees and does it. And the bargain
Speaker 2: is that Savile will take her to see him record
Speaker 2: one of his TV shows at the BBC. And he
Speaker 2: does follow through with this promise as far as I
Speaker 2: can tell, I think he pretty much always does. Like
Speaker 2: when he promises to take a girl he's molesting to
Speaker 2: go see an episode of whatever show be recorded at
Speaker 2: the BBC, or to meet the Beatles or whatever, to
Speaker 2: get into a concert. He pretty much always, as far
Speaker 2: as I can tell, follow through that it's easy, like
Speaker 2: it's easier like if you're if you're actually like not
Speaker 2: following through. Some people are gonna tell right, like you'll
Speaker 2: deal with more problems. You know, this isn't a good
Speaker 2: thing about him, It's just that's how it works better, right.
Speaker 2: And this is a big part of why the BBC
Speaker 2: is implicated because over the years Jimmy takes will never
Speaker 2: know how many at least dozens, probably hundreds of girls
Speaker 2: that he is abusing onto BBC property for a period
Speaker 2: of nearly half a century. For decades he is taking
Speaker 2: teenage girls, maybe taking teenage boys he's abusing too, I
Speaker 2: don't I don't recall coming across those accounts, but he's
Speaker 2: definitely for decades taking underage girls that he is molesting
Speaker 2: and raping onto BBC property in order as part of
Speaker 2: the abuse. That's part of the quote unquote transaction that
Speaker 2: he's arranged with these kids. And so the BBC, like
Speaker 2: his abuse of hundreds and hundreds of children and adults
Speaker 2: would not have been possible without the eager and ready
Speaker 2: assistance of the British Broadcasting Corporation. There is simply no
Speaker 2: other way to say it. The BBC was a rigid
Speaker 2: organization with a strict hierarchy, where talent set up top
Speaker 2: and a culture of fear, as identified by the Dame
Speaker 2: Janet Smith Review, ensured lower level employees new reporting abuse
Speaker 2: by a star would be the end of their careers. Right,
Speaker 2: So it's just known, you don't talk shit about the performers.
Speaker 2: They're the ones making money for everybody, so they get
Speaker 2: to do what they want. And if you're trying to
Speaker 2: ruin the party, you're not going to have a career
Speaker 2: at the only place really to have a career in
Speaker 2: television in Britain at this time. That's good.
Speaker 5: It's the career and the libel laws like make this
Speaker 5: terrible combination.
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. It's this mix of these two things
Speaker 2: that I think is most of why this happens, right,
Speaker 2: and the complicity of the British ruling class who needs
Speaker 2: Jimmy to make austerity seem more palatable. As the nineteen
Speaker 2: eighties wore on, Savill grew only grew more and more
Speaker 2: skilled at finding victims and discouraging them from talking to anyone.
Speaker 2: This was not hard, since the man had become a
Speaker 2: regular guest, not just in Margaret Thatcher's household. She like
Speaker 2: invites him over for holidays sometimes like he comes over
Speaker 2: and has dinner with some regularity, and he is also
Speaker 2: a somewhat regular guest of the royal family. In nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty five, Savill convinced Prince Charles and Princess Die to
Speaker 2: guest host a two hour anti drug special called Drugs
Speaker 2: Watch with him. That's good again. We know he's drugging
Speaker 2: some of the girls and boys that he's raping, right,
Speaker 2: we have reports of that, sometimes just giving them alcohol.
Speaker 2: But like, anyway, thanks for the anti drug PSA, Jimmy,
Speaker 2: I'm sure it helped. That same year, yeah, I must have.
Speaker 2: Thank god Princess Die and Prince Charles were there too,
Speaker 2: you know, really to lend an air of responsibility to
Speaker 2: the proceedings. I'm sure that got a lot of kids
Speaker 2: at a bad place.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: That same year, during an event for healthcare officials, Prince
Speaker 2: Charles jokingly referred to Savill as my health advisor. He
Speaker 2: talks about him constantly. Saville was also known to Pope
Speaker 2: John Paul the Second who met so Pope John Paul
Speaker 2: like visits England during this period for like the first
Speaker 2: time a Pope had visited London in some period of time.
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe I don't know, but it was
Speaker 2: a big deal obviously, given like the history of the
Speaker 2: Church of England, right, how the Church of England starts
Speaker 2: as this breakaway from the Catholic Church, and there's generations
Speaker 2: for which the Catholic Church is suppressed violently in in
Speaker 2: England and in Ireland. Obviously, so the fact that a
Speaker 2: pope is visiting England is like a big deal, right.
Speaker 2: And John Paul the second he'd been shot over in
Speaker 2: the USSR. He's like a big deal pope and one
Speaker 2: of the first people the Pope meets when he lands
Speaker 2: in London. This is on TV. This is a major event.
Speaker 2: Is he walks right up to and shakes hands with
Speaker 2: Jimmy Saville. This is this is like a major part.
Speaker 2: Like he's one of the first people the Pope meets
Speaker 2: in England because Saffle's like a famous Catholic.
Speaker 5: Is the Pope ironically like the only non pedophile in
Speaker 5: this story.
Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't say, I don't. I don't. I don't
Speaker 2: want to go to bat for JP the second that
Speaker 2: hard Okay, we know he definitely I am certain Again,
Speaker 2: I'm not a I'm not an expert on John Paul.
Speaker 2: The second specific involvement in the Catholic churches covering up
Speaker 2: of sex crimes. But I don't believe he was uninvolved.
Speaker 2: Uh so I'm certainly not gonna say that he was
Speaker 2: the pope while the Catholic Church was hiding like yeah,
Speaker 2: I doubt he was completely in the clear. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm not an expert on his involvement there. Sure, sure
Speaker 2: he's right, he's in charge and it's happening in his organization.
Speaker 2: So in the rare but not that rare instances where
Speaker 2: people did try to report on Saffle's behavior. As I noted,
Speaker 2: he is an expert on the UK's libel laws and
Speaker 2: these are to make a long story, shirt, your laws
Speaker 2: suck UK, and I know I'm in the United States.
Speaker 2: We've got a lot of shitty laws and a lot
Speaker 2: of stuff. UK libel laws are fucking bullshit and it's
Speaker 2: a massive problem. This is a part of the problem
Speaker 2: with like Rowling right where people are getting in legal
Speaker 2: trouble for saying accurate things about JK. Rowling being a
Speaker 2: fucking bigot like Jimmy Savill is very good and a
Speaker 2: lot of bad people are very good at using the
Speaker 2: UK's libel laws as a weapon in order to make
Speaker 2: sure people don't report on the bad things that they're doing.
Speaker 2: And basically, if you're trying to talk about some of
Speaker 2: these rumors or even reports, and you can't prove outright
Speaker 2: that Savile's a child predator, reporting even reporting on individual
Speaker 2: allegations could get you in massive trouble. You have to
Speaker 2: be extremely careful. Now, I think people are even more
Speaker 2: cowardly in the media than the real level of legal
Speaker 2: risk justifies. I think there is added cowardice on top
Speaker 2: of that. But the cowardice starts with the chilling effect
Speaker 2: that's created when you have laws like this. So any
Speaker 2: journalist or paper that wanted to write about jim is
Speaker 2: going to be beset with legal effects, which I mean
Speaker 2: the end result of this is that in most publications
Speaker 2: throughout most of the period of time where Jimmy Savill
Speaker 2: is abusing people, they're just automatically spiking any story about
Speaker 2: his private life quote unquote private life. Right, anytime anyone
Speaker 2: wants to talk about is Jimmy Savile raping people, those
Speaker 2: stories just get spiked automatically because legal is not going
Speaker 2: to let it through. Right, Why even try, right, Who's
Speaker 2: gonna who would want to risk your newspapers survival to
Speaker 2: report on some he said, she said thing about a
Speaker 2: beloved humanitarian like Jimmy Saffle. That's the argument being made
Speaker 2: by most of the major editors and most of the
Speaker 2: major publications in the United Kingdom for decades.
Speaker 5: I do get it, though, because you're publica, it's your
Speaker 5: publication on this.
Speaker 2: Line, and you don't know, you know, if you're not
Speaker 2: plugged into this whole world, you don't know the truth.
Speaker 2: And maybe all you're hearing is, oh, he's dating a
Speaker 2: lot of like eighteen or seventeen year olds. That's legal.
Speaker 2: I may think it's gross, but I'm not gonna destroy
Speaker 2: my newspaper to report on a guy having legal sex
Speaker 2: with someone who's young. That's how a lot of people
Speaker 2: think about it right now. That said, a lot of
Speaker 2: people go much further than they need to and clamping
Speaker 2: down on this even based on the fear because of
Speaker 2: just like cowardice, and it's easier and in some cases,
Speaker 2: Jimmy's writing columns for their fucking papers. As we talked
Speaker 2: about in the last episodes or last week. So as
Speaker 2: Jimmy ghost from his thirties to his forties, rumors continue
Speaker 2: to dog him about his outrageous lifestyle. But it's never
Speaker 2: framed as pedophilia, right, It's always he's just this eternal bachelor.
Speaker 2: He's really got an active social life. He's always surrounded
Speaker 2: by girls, but in the way that they don't mean
Speaker 2: literal children, even though that's actually what's happening. Like, that's
Speaker 2: how people talk about this when he's interviewed and stuff,
Speaker 2: because people ask him like, Hey, it's weird you're not married.
Speaker 2: Do you have any like serious long term relationships? Are you,
Speaker 2: like with anybody long term? He would justify the fact
Speaker 2: that he never got married or had long term relationships
Speaker 2: by explaining his belief that being in a relationship causes
Speaker 2: brain damage, particularly in women, and he wants to avoid
Speaker 2: the brain damage, right, And in fact he gets wealth. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 2: you get brain damaged when you when you get married,
Speaker 2: you know, and I just don't want any of that
Speaker 2: brain damage in my life. And as he gets wealthier's
Speaker 2: that good?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yea, the brain and damage, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, I will say being in a relationship does do
Speaker 2: a degree a kind of brain damage to you. But
Speaker 2: it's a good one, I think on the whole. You know,
Speaker 2: it's necessary. You're never you're not avoiding brain damage as
Speaker 2: a person. You know, everyone everyone does gets something, But
Speaker 2: Saville is so worried about this quote unquote brain damage
Speaker 2: that even as he gets rich and he buys homes
Speaker 2: and condos across the country, he makes sure that there
Speaker 2: he has all of his houses refitted to take the
Speaker 2: stoves out and to take the kitchen out, because he
Speaker 2: thinks that having a proper kitchen is part of what
Speaker 2: makes girls get brain damaged. This is like a thing
Speaker 2: he'll talk about and interviews. What again, this is just
Speaker 2: this is just cover, right, This is him coming I
Speaker 2: don't think he actually even believes this necessarily. This is
Speaker 2: him coming up with cover for why he's not with
Speaker 2: anybody long term.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: You know, everyone knows he's dating, is on dates all
Speaker 2: the time. Everyone knows he's constant because he talks about
Speaker 2: and his coworkers will be like, yeah, he talked about
Speaker 2: his sex life. He said, oh, I was with a
Speaker 2: bird this weekend, or a lovely bird went out to
Speaker 2: the coast or whatever. But they never hear their names
Speaker 2: and or their ages, and they just assume he's a
Speaker 2: star who's sleeping with a different woman every night. That's
Speaker 2: not what's happening. But that's the assumption people make, and
Speaker 2: it's an assumption people are kind i think, often consciously
Speaker 2: forcing themselves to make because they know something is bad,
Speaker 2: but they don't want to stir the pot, right, so
Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, he's just he's a real swinger. He's
Speaker 2: a hip guy. You know, he's just got a large
Speaker 2: appetites or whatever. People find ways to have it not
Speaker 2: be their problem.
Speaker 5: I feel like the libel laws should cover the slander
Speaker 5: against all grown up women.
Speaker 2: In a relationship. In relationship, yeah, shockingly, it doesn't that
Speaker 2: you're clear on. Savell would also publicly in interviews he
Speaker 2: would repeatedly insist that he hated children, right like, I
Speaker 2: don't like kids. I don't like them at all. That's
Speaker 2: why I'm not in a relationship. That's why I don't
Speaker 2: have any. I just don't actually like them.
Speaker 4: Dog, were you not hosting a child show? What? Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: That people thought that was weird. It got people talking
Speaker 2: right about the he hates kids, but he does this
Speaker 2: child show. He's basically Santa Claus. That's odd. And in
Speaker 2: the Twilight of Jimmy's career, documentarian Louis Thereaux asked him
Speaker 2: like why do you say this, Like, why do you
Speaker 2: say you hate kids, because, like I see you on TV,
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like you hate kids based on how
Speaker 2: you perform with them on stage. And Saville was like, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a lie basically, and he his exact response was,
Speaker 2: we live in a very funny world, and it's easier
Speaker 2: for me as a single man to say I don't
Speaker 2: like children because that puts a lot of salacious tabloid
Speaker 2: people off the hunt. Hunt of what, Jimmy a hunt
Speaker 2: of what? Well, yeah, and Louie kind of asks, this
Speaker 2: is I love Louis as a general rule, he doesn't
Speaker 2: go hard enough. He does do more than a lot
Speaker 2: of journalists did at the time, but it's not nearly
Speaker 2: enough in this interview because he does basically ask him,
Speaker 2: are you a pedophile? And Jimmy's like, no, of course not.
Speaker 2: But you know, I don't want anyone looking into my life,
Speaker 2: and so it just lies like this or easier. It
Speaker 2: stops you from looking into your life. But you're just
Speaker 2: saying you're trying to throw people off the hunt. That's
Speaker 2: not I want private hunt of what. Mostens did this show.
Speaker 2: I've made references. I have a long term partner that
Speaker 2: I've been with for a while. Like, I have a
Speaker 2: personal life, I've a roman I don't talk about it
Speaker 2: in detail because people on the internet are weird and
Speaker 2: like if you go into detail, if you let people
Speaker 2: know who you're seeing or whatever, like folks are fucking
Speaker 2: like you don't want to. The internet is filled with
Speaker 2: oddities and people. I've had people make very uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: Decision difference being private and secret, but this.
Speaker 2: Is a big difference. He's specifically saying, no, no, no, I
Speaker 2: just lie about hating kids because it gets it that way.
Speaker 2: People don't look into what I really do.
Speaker 6: Is this?
Speaker 2: You know he's saying that. He admits that, and that's
Speaker 2: as an interview in like two thousand, but like he's
Speaker 2: not completely hiding this shit.
Speaker 5: I am proud of Threau for asking are you a pedophile?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll talk about Louis a little bit more. This
Speaker 2: is there's a lot of This is probably, I mean,
Speaker 2: I think definitely the most critiqueable moment of his career.
Speaker 2: I say that as a guy who's a general fan
Speaker 2: of the man's work. How he handles savile is not
Speaker 2: He's not proud of it. I'll say that much. We'll
Speaker 2: talk more, Okay, okay, But it's all this stuff, these
Speaker 2: rumors about his outrageous lifestyle and like how promiscuous he is,
Speaker 2: which he does talk about. It's interpreted again that like
Speaker 2: this is just consensual sex with adult women. But the
Speaker 2: fact that he's talking about this at all does nearly
Speaker 2: derail Jimmy becoming Sir Jimmy. Right, this is something that
Speaker 2: continually is a problem for him for like a decade.
Speaker 2: Is well, we don't want to give a knighthood to
Speaker 2: a guy who talks about this kind of stuff. But
Speaker 2: old Maggie, she keeps pushing, you know, like she really
Speaker 2: is dedicated to this cause. And for an idea of
Speaker 2: how well known at the time people are really aware
Speaker 2: that Thatcher is pushing for Jimmy to get a knighthood.
Speaker 2: I want to quote again from that our article Ferrol
Speaker 2: Kenney wrote for the UK Telegram. In a revealing nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty two cartoon in the Sun, Savile is depicted as
Speaker 2: a gangster complete with fedora and machine gun, with Margaret
Speaker 2: Thatcher showing him pictures of Arthur Skargel as well as
Speaker 2: labor politicians Michael Foot, Tony Benn and Dennis Healy with
Speaker 2: a caption bump off these lot and I'll see that
Speaker 2: you get a knighthood. So there's a recognition that Thatcher
Speaker 2: is using saffle, he is an important and central wing
Speaker 2: of her pr machine, and also that he's doing it
Speaker 2: to get a knighthood. People are know this at the time.
Speaker 2: It's not, you know, hidden from anyone paying attention. In
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six, Margaret had her private secretary Nigel Wicks
Speaker 2: right to the Honors Committee, saying that she was most
Speaker 2: disappointed that mister Saville's name has not been recommended. He added,
Speaker 2: she Thatcher wonders how many more times his name is
Speaker 2: to be pushed aside, especially in view of all the
Speaker 2: great work he had done for Stoke Mandibal. Right, He's
Speaker 2: why are we delaying this guy getting a knighthood? Did
Speaker 2: you see he funded the spinal center that he hangs
Speaker 2: out at an awful lot, like a weird amount.
Speaker 3: They're doing great sleepovers.
Speaker 2: It's important the we're in great sleep But we'll talk
Speaker 2: about the sleepovers at Stoke Manibal. But first let's have
Speaker 2: a sleepover with our sponsors and we're back. It turns
Speaker 2: out that's illegal, so we didn't have a sleepover with
Speaker 2: our sponsors. I apologize. So by this point, nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: six or so, the age crisis is still too big
Speaker 2: a deal, and Jimmy's sex scandals, as people talk about them,
Speaker 2: are still too recent for him to get across the
Speaker 2: finish line and become a night Another problem for Savile
Speaker 2: comes when he's there's an interview about his days as
Speaker 2: a club promoter, and he tells a lot of lurid
Speaker 2: stories about having to beat people within an inch of
Speaker 2: their live or I like the gang of thugs, that
Speaker 2: he would sick on people and have them like savage folks, right,
Speaker 2: And that interview temporarily hurts his shot at getting a knighthood.
Speaker 2: But I've also read speculation and I think this is
Speaker 2: a pretty good take on it, that this isn't just
Speaker 2: like him being sloppy and like, oh, I shouldn't have
Speaker 2: done that because it caused problems for me. This is
Speaker 2: also part of the tactic that keeps him safe because
Speaker 2: by admitting, oh, I did violent stuff in my past,
Speaker 2: I had guys beaten up. I beat up guys, that
Speaker 2: is basically copping to something illegal, But it's also something
Speaker 2: that no one's going to care about because it was
Speaker 2: like ten or fifteen years ago. And these guys are
Speaker 2: like bad guys, as he always frames it, their hoodlums.
Speaker 2: They're provoking him, they're causing problems. You know, they're not
Speaker 2: victim victims, right, But it's something illicit that he can
Speaker 2: admit to. That Again, it throws people off the scent. Right, Well,
Speaker 2: if he's open about this, there's probably nothing else going on, right.
Speaker 2: And it also he can be fairly sure that, like,
Speaker 2: if anyone wants to look into the dark side of
Speaker 2: Jimmy Savile, they can find some stuff, and it's stuff
Speaker 2: that they can talk about it and be like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, Jimmy did this or that, but it's not
Speaker 2: that bad, right, it's something that's forgivable bad. And that's
Speaker 2: interesting to me. In nineteen Yeah, you know what else?
Speaker 2: Oh wait, we already did that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I guess we're just gonna we're going on a
Speaker 2: raw dog this next part. This is bad. This is
Speaker 2: real bad. In nineteen eighty eight, the entire management board
Speaker 2: of broad More Psychiatric Hospital, where Jimmy volunteered quite regularly,
Speaker 2: was suspended by the Department of Health under appointee Ken Clark.
Speaker 2: The board basically shits. The psychiatric hospital was not well run,
Speaker 2: things were costing too much. It was like in debt.
Speaker 2: The facilities there were bad, there were problems with it.
Speaker 2: So the government is like, well, we need to shut down,
Speaker 2: get rid of the people running it now. And the
Speaker 2: board that had been running broad Moore is replaced by
Speaker 2: a task force appointed by the Thatcher administration. And the
Speaker 2: task force is run by Jimmy Savill. No, now he's
Speaker 2: running a psychiatric hospital. Jimmy had started volunteering at Broadmore
Speaker 2: in the nineteen sixties, and in nineteen eighty eight he
Speaker 2: got total control over what happened at the facility, or
Speaker 2: near total control. He's effectively running it, per the Tribune quote.
Speaker 2: This This decision was rubber stamped by Junior Health Minister
Speaker 2: Edwina Currie, who wrote at A Boy and Her Diaries
Speaker 2: on hearing Savile's plans for reform at the hospital, which
Speaker 2: included union busting, as Savill alleged that inflated overtime payments
Speaker 2: were rife among the unionized workforce. Curry later conceded that
Speaker 2: this was likely savele blackmailing staff who could blow the
Speaker 2: whistle on his abuse. So Savill's like, now that I'm
Speaker 2: running things, you know the real problem at this hospital,
Speaker 2: these damn unions. It's made a way too expensive. All
Speaker 2: these guys I got good, I'm gonna we need to
Speaker 2: fire a bunch of these people because they're they're faking.
Speaker 4: They're Oh, I'm just so shocked that savel would be
Speaker 4: a time union.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we had to get rid of these guys.
Speaker 2: They're they're stealing basically from the country by faking this
Speaker 2: overtime stuff. No, no, they weren't reporting me for raping
Speaker 2: patients that had nothing to do with it. It was
Speaker 2: overtime fraud. Right, So the Thatcher regime gets what it wants.
Speaker 2: They get to cut costs, they get to busty union
Speaker 2: fucking Maggie loves that shit and she's getting Saveles doing
Speaker 2: He's literally like, I cannot overstate this is not a
Speaker 2: side thing. She didn't happen to be friends with. This guy,
Speaker 2: Jimmy Savell is a significant, meaningful part of Thatcherism, Like
Speaker 2: he is a major and important part of her entire regime,
Speaker 2: like that that has to be driven home to peace.
Speaker 2: How key he is in this whole period of time
Speaker 2: in British political history, and the fact that he's now
Speaker 2: running this hospital, he's able to fire basically anyone he
Speaker 2: wants to who who's going to speak up at anything?
Speaker 2: That just makes him even more fucking bulletproof to the
Speaker 2: people he's raping and molesting and abusing in other ways. Now,
Speaker 2: the fact that there were employees at all these facilities
Speaker 2: who saw Savile's behavior and tried to intervene. This doesn't
Speaker 2: just happen at Broadmore. There are employees everywhere that he
Speaker 2: volunteers who try to say something, but it never goes anywhere.
Speaker 2: And it is important though that it is important emphasize
Speaker 2: there are people trying to intervene, right, and that fact
Speaker 2: often gets lost, in part because it doesn't work, but
Speaker 2: in part because a lot of powerful people have a
Speaker 2: vested interest in the fact that folks tried to stop
Speaker 2: Jimmy being lost. Because by far the best way that
Speaker 2: you can interpret this, that the public can interpret this,
Speaker 2: that the British public specifically can interpret Jimmy Saville and
Speaker 2: what happened in his crimes is oh, this was just
Speaker 2: a monster who manipulated and a hidden planesight and he
Speaker 2: tricked everybody. We all fell for no one knew anything
Speaker 2: was going on.
Speaker 3: Nobody had any idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people knew Jimmy was allowed to rape and abuse people.
Speaker 2: Thatcher and everyone in her, everyone that we talked about,
Speaker 2: who was a part of fucking Curry. I will say
Speaker 2: it right now, I'm not prone to those laws. I
Speaker 2: think Curry and Thatcher and everyone else involved in the
Speaker 2: decision to put him in that position in broad more,
Speaker 2: if they didn't know he was outright raping kids, they
Speaker 2: knew he was raping people. They knew he was having
Speaker 2: they would probably affirm him as having sex with people
Speaker 2: who were under age.
Speaker 3: The fuck he was.
Speaker 2: They knew what he was doing, and they knew they
Speaker 2: were putting in a position where he could do it more,
Speaker 2: and they did it because it benefited them politically. They
Speaker 2: didn't know maybe all the specifics, but they knew enough.
Speaker 4: They knew it. They knew he wasn't a they knew
Speaker 4: he was at minimum a sketchy creep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they knew what they were doing. Yeah, Thatcher
Speaker 2: knew what she was doing. Kenny writes, quote read the
Speaker 2: NHS investigations into Savile, and there are numerous examples of
Speaker 2: everyday people with little power standing up to Savile or
Speaker 2: at least doing what they could reasonably do within their
Speaker 2: small domain to protect those who are in their care.
Speaker 2: There are no such stories within the Thatcher government, only
Speaker 2: an elite who took him at face value time and
Speaker 2: time again. I cannot exaggerate the degree of deference and
Speaker 2: power that Jimmy was given over an entire psychiatric hospital.
Speaker 2: This is gonna fucking blow your mind. Broadmoor gives him
Speaker 2: a suite of rooms permanently that he is allowed to
Speaker 2: occupy and live him and is a private apartment in
Speaker 2: the women's wing of the hospital. They give him an
Speaker 2: apartment in the women's wing, and he has their allegations
Speaker 2: he would just have victims delivered to his rooms sometimes,
Speaker 2: or if he's the one taking them in for intake,
Speaker 2: he'll just bring him on up to his room and
Speaker 2: do whatever fucking sex crime he's gonna do, and then
Speaker 2: I'll put him wherever they need to go. Right He's
Speaker 2: he's getting victims delivered to his apartment at the psychiatric
Speaker 2: hospital in the women's wing.
Speaker 5: This is a psychotic Also, it's not charity anymore. It's
Speaker 5: like he's nobody was wondering why he wants to run
Speaker 5: this fucking place and.
Speaker 3: Like be there.
Speaker 2: He's just a good man. He really likes helping out
Speaker 2: these people. You know, he cares about them. No one
Speaker 2: else cares about these people.
Speaker 4: Just jimmy, what was the word we decided at the end,
Speaker 4: loathsome loathsome Now.
Speaker 2: The website Investigative Psychiatry and analyzing several of these reports,
Speaker 2: notes that clinic staff found the fact that he was
Speaker 2: given an apartment in the facility bizarre and inappropriate, but
Speaker 2: it was quote sanctioned from the top down as part
Speaker 2: of his task force role.
Speaker 4: This physical top whose signature, whose signature is on that?
Speaker 2: On that, I mean Curry's is right?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah, I mean I'm sure that's documented. There's
Speaker 2: there's a the article has like a footnote there. I could,
Speaker 2: I could get more names for you. But this physical
Speaker 2: autonomy was the ultimate evidence of his symbolic power. He
Speaker 2: had colonized the hospital space to a point where he
Speaker 2: was no longer a guest, but a semi permanent resident
Speaker 2: with more freedom of movement than many senior clinicians.
Speaker 4: Now, what figures out here colonizing a fucking women's psychiatric ward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fucking nuts that they gave him a fucking
Speaker 2: apartment is crazy. I mean, first of all, hospitals have
Speaker 2: what yeah, yeah, I'm fucking insane cerate a big for
Speaker 2: a cut?
Speaker 3: What the fuck?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy stuff. Yeah, hi mom. Now, Stoke Manibal
Speaker 2: was not his first major volunteer effort, but it makes
Speaker 2: him a fixture within the NHS, and he receives offers
Speaker 2: to volunteer at and raise money for dozens of hospitals,
Speaker 2: including Leeds General, great Ormond Street, and Wheatfield's Hospice. Modern
Speaker 2: investigations have turned up evidence that Savill's sexually abused patients
Speaker 2: had each of these facilities. For the UK Standard, his
Speaker 2: youngest victim was an eight year old boy who suffered
Speaker 2: a sexual assault at his hands, and again we know
Speaker 2: there were younger victims that was you know, at one
Speaker 2: point in time as he aged, Savil seems to have
Speaker 2: preferred patients who were dying in hospice. The Standard recounts
Speaker 2: one story of an eleven to twelve year old dying
Speaker 2: boy at Great Ormond who admitted shortly before passing that
Speaker 2: he had been touched inappropriately by Savile. That's part of
Speaker 2: why we'll never know how many victims is he's specifically
Speaker 2: going after people who are dying and thus won't be
Speaker 2: around to complain or report as he gets like older.
Speaker 2: That's a big thing he does.
Speaker 5: Also the psych hospital. It's like, oh, so you can
Speaker 5: immediately call into question the credibility of these victims.
Speaker 2: Crazy, he's crazy, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, that might be one of the worst things
Speaker 4: you've ever read on this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty bad. It's pretty Like I said, this
Speaker 2: is like the one of the only research at bits
Speaker 2: Binges I've been on a while that actually had me crying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I understand.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In nineteen ninety, the last year of Thatcher's time
Speaker 2: in office, she finally succeeded in getting Jimmy savill knighted
Speaker 2: during that year's Queen's Birthday honors. He was knighted for
Speaker 2: his charitable services, and from that moment on, Jimmy savill
Speaker 2: Obe was now Sir Jimmy Savile. He received personal congratulations
Speaker 2: from all of his friends in the royal family. Prince Andrew,
Speaker 2: Prince Charles, Princess Diana, Sarah Ferguson, the Duchess of York,
Speaker 2: sends him a handmade card. Savile, for his part, was
Speaker 2: over the moon about his knighthood and he made no
Speaker 2: great efforts to disguise why. He told journalist Lynn Barber
Speaker 2: in an interview conducted just after the ceremony, I had
Speaker 2: a lively couple of years with the tabloid sniffing about,
Speaker 2: asking around the corner shops everything, thinking there must be
Speaker 2: something the authorities knew that they didn't, where As an
Speaker 2: actual fact, I've got to be the most boring geezer
Speaker 2: in the world because I ain't got no past, and
Speaker 2: so if nothing else, it was a ginormous relief when
Speaker 2: I got the knighthood because it got me off the hook. Boy,
Speaker 2: getting this knighthood is great. It's got to make it
Speaker 2: a lot easier for me to commit sex crimes without
Speaker 2: getting noticed. Thanks the Queen, off I go.
Speaker 3: He just says that, wow, the clothes are crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, the same year, nineteen ninety, he gets knighted
Speaker 2: by the Queen. Because that's not enough, Savill also receives
Speaker 2: a papal knighthood. The Pope knights him too. I mean
Speaker 2: apropos the Catholic Church and the British royal family just
Speaker 2: no notes. Guys nailing it.
Speaker 4: Like Pulpe John Paul the second.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, JP two makes him a knight. Now it's
Speaker 2: an interesting side note when all of this comes out
Speaker 2: and it becomes incredibly obvious to the entire world that
Speaker 2: Jimmy Savile's been a massive pedophile the entire time and
Speaker 2: abused god knows how many people. There's like people who
Speaker 2: are like, hey, should we like strip him of his
Speaker 2: knighthood and his papal knighthood. Maybe we like that probably
Speaker 2: should happen, right, And that can't happen. Actually, it's impossible
Speaker 2: to do that because there's no permanent register of nights.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 2: Once you die, you just drop off the list, you know,
Speaker 2: no longer a night. That's just like how being a
Speaker 2: night works. So by the when he died, he stopped
Speaker 2: being a knight. There's no way to like retroactively go
Speaker 2: back and strip the honors. I actually prefer it that way.
Speaker 2: Like I've seen people complain about this, I have no
Speaker 2: issue with this. I don't think either the Catholic Church
Speaker 2: or the British Royal family should ever get to forget
Speaker 2: that they united this guy. I think he should be
Speaker 2: Sir Jimmy Saffle forever.
Speaker 3: I was like, why, but.
Speaker 2: I see your point.
Speaker 4: But also, term limits baby, termlaments.
Speaker 2: Not the first pedophile night, not the last. Honestly, probably
Speaker 2: more pedophile nights than non pedophile nights if you're going
Speaker 2: his story.
Speaker 3: That's crazy.
Speaker 2: Good stuff. Yeah, and there's some Again. I don't think
Speaker 2: either these institutions should ever get to or the BBC
Speaker 2: should ever get to be free of the shame of
Speaker 2: having been affiliated with Jimmy Savell. But there are some
Speaker 2: very funny interviews with this representative of the Catholic Church.
Speaker 2: The Vatican spokesman at the time was Federico Lombardi at
Speaker 2: the time that Saville died, and like I found one
Speaker 2: interview with him in the AP that includes this line.
Speaker 2: He also said Savell would never have received the honor
Speaker 2: had allegations about his behavior been known, and Lombardi stressed
Speaker 2: the Vatican's firm condemnation of any type of sexual abuse
Speaker 2: against children. Really, oh really, is that so?
Speaker 4: Feeri uah?
Speaker 2: Vaticans never supported sexual abuse of children.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 2: I was just reading about how two hundred thousand such
Speaker 2: or so like French kids are known to have been
Speaker 2: raped by Catholic priests. But good, good to know you
Speaker 2: guys take a firm line on that stuff, Like I know,
Speaker 2: because the Catholic Church and this current Pope have had
Speaker 2: some pretty good takes on certain things happening politically recently,
Speaker 2: and you know that's good. I'm glad the Catholic Church
Speaker 2: is especially pushing back on our administrations like nightmarish genocidal
Speaker 2: immigration policies, and hold every member of the church as
Speaker 2: responsible for these the things that we're done. But we
Speaker 2: shouldn't forget what the Catholic Church is historically and what
Speaker 2: they did and what they enabled, and this is part
Speaker 2: of that. It's a little part of that, given the
Speaker 2: grand scheme of those crimes, but it's part of it. Right,
Speaker 2: good stuff. It's probably time for an ad break.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's take five and then just just
Speaker 4: traumadup it on, buddy.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Okay, we're back and we're just going to power
Speaker 7: through the rest of the horrible things.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety, in the year years right before he
Speaker 2: was knighted, Saville is known and people who are part
Speaker 2: were around the royal family noted that he acted as
Speaker 2: a fixer for Charles and Diana's marriage. When they start
Speaker 2: having like marriage issues, He's brought in to be like
Speaker 2: their their relationship coach. Basically the guy.
Speaker 4: Who's never been in a relationship.
Speaker 2: Never love that, and he's the great idea?
Speaker 1: Was that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I think it was. It was Prince Charles,
Speaker 2: although I think Princess Died was fine with it. Like
Speaker 2: they both seem to have liked him, like genuinely liked
Speaker 2: and admired.
Speaker 4: That's like the only thing they've ever agreed on is that.
Speaker 4: Jimmy So yeah, a good guy guy. Now it seems
Speaker 4: to me it's really fucking weird.
Speaker 2: Perfect Guardian quote. Saville is understood who visited Prince Charles's
Speaker 2: official London residence several times in the late nineteen eighties
Speaker 2: when he was acting as a kind of marriage counselor
Speaker 2: between Charles and Princess Diana. And there's a lot of
Speaker 2: there's been a lot of like the British equivalent of
Speaker 2: like a public records request, both around Thatcher and around
Speaker 2: the royal family and Savell, and we've gotten some stuff.
Speaker 2: Some of what I've talked about came out through those
Speaker 2: records requests. A lot of his conversations and his correspondence
Speaker 2: with Thatcher is still basically like uh, censored or whatever.
Speaker 2: It's like I guess sensitive or whatever. So we don't know,
Speaker 2: Like there's actually a surprising amount that's been redacted of
Speaker 2: his relationship with Thatcher, which I'm very curious to know.
Speaker 2: And there's a similar things going on with the Royal family.
Speaker 2: But what we do know, based on letters and documents
Speaker 2: that have come out since his death, is that Stavel
Speaker 2: is basically the volunteer pr specialist for the royal family.
Speaker 2: He's one of the first people they call when there's
Speaker 2: a scandal. Well, part of the thing is the fucking
Speaker 2: Prince Charles really trusts him because, as I noted, Jimmy's
Speaker 2: like a former coal miner from the north, so he's
Speaker 2: like a down home country boy basically, but in you.
Speaker 4: Know, and was buddies with Lord man Batten, who was
Speaker 4: like a father freaking Charles. Yeah, there's all that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was friends with Mount Batton. And also
Speaker 2: he's a he Charles sees him as like a representative
Speaker 2: of the common man, right, He's not gonna actually talk
Speaker 2: to real poor people, but like he can talk to Jimmy,
Speaker 2: and Jimmy can tell him how commoners think, right and
Speaker 2: how commoners will react to things. So you trust Jimmy
Speaker 2: more than you trust your fancy went to eaton or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, pr representatives who talk the right way. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: Jimmy knows how the common man works, right, he can
Speaker 2: tell us what we should say. Based on interviews with
Speaker 2: Dicky Arbider, who was media relations liaison for the Prince
Speaker 2: and Princess of Wales at the time, Savill cut an
Speaker 2: upsetting figure even within the rarefied world of the royal household. Quote.
Speaker 2: He would walk into the office and do the rounds
Speaker 2: of the young ladies, taking their hands and rubbing his
Speaker 2: lips all the way up their arms if they were
Speaker 2: wearing short sleeves, if it was summer and their arms
Speaker 2: were bare, his bottom lip would curl out and he
Speaker 2: would run it up their arms. This was at Saint
Speaker 2: James Place. The women were in their mid to late
Speaker 2: twenties doing typing and secretarial work. No no, yeah, gross,
Speaker 2: deeply bad. You'll hear about this a lot. This is
Speaker 2: an important tactic of his. What he's doing the whole
Speaker 2: when he's casually meeting women in the world. These are
Speaker 2: adult women, but he'll do these like really exaggerated like
Speaker 2: gomez atoms, you know style, like kissing all the way
Speaker 2: up their arm gestures. Right, He does this a lot.
Speaker 2: You'll also find people talking about this in like these
Speaker 2: analyzes that different institutions like broad More and Stoke Mandible
Speaker 2: published right about how Savil would do stuff like this
Speaker 2: when he would meet women, and often like meet women
Speaker 2: generally that he's not actually abusing or anything. And this
Speaker 2: is an important point, as summarized on the website Investigative
Speaker 2: Psychiatries right up quote. Savil also used bizarre and flamboyantly
Speaker 2: inappropriate public behavior towards women, such as extravagant greetings and
Speaker 2: kissing up their arms to their lips as a calculated
Speaker 2: method to scope their reactions engage the level of resistance
Speaker 2: he might face. If he does this and you don't
Speaker 2: turn away or pull away at all, and you let
Speaker 2: him get all the way to your lips, he knows okay,
Speaker 2: if I want to. This is someone who's more vulnerable, right.
Speaker 2: That's that's the interpretation that people have made of this behavior,
Speaker 2: and I think it's probably accurate. It makes sense. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of reports of this.
Speaker 3: I would have been out the door.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. He should have gotten hit in the
Speaker 2: face every time. But he's doing it again. This is
Speaker 2: the weird behavior that's oh, Jimmy's like that with everybody.
Speaker 2: He's just really like no, no, no, this isn't being
Speaker 2: sexually inappropriate. He's like that with everyone. That's just how
Speaker 2: he is.
Speaker 5: You know. Also, if your being sexually inappropriate with the
Speaker 5: ladies that are of age, it's also like another strange
Speaker 5: form of cover.
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, exactly exactly, and it works very well for
Speaker 2: that purpose. In nineteen ninety one, Savill sat down for
Speaker 2: a BBC radio interview on the show In the Psychiatrist's
Speaker 2: Share with doctor Anthony Clare. Savill made some statements that
Speaker 2: would subsequently become quite famous. For one, he claimed to
Speaker 2: have no emotions. Quote that would make me bad news
Speaker 2: for a psychiatrist or a psychologist, because there's just nothing
Speaker 2: to find. What you see is what there is. Now
Speaker 2: that's not true one its face. Many of Jimmy's victims
Speaker 2: have written about the rages that he would drop into
Speaker 2: if he were denied or hindered in any way. This
Speaker 2: is a guy who got violent and could get violent,
Speaker 2: and who got very angry when he was angry. But
Speaker 2: the fact that he says this, that he claims, so
Speaker 2: I don't have emotions, I don't really feel things is
Speaker 2: part of the mythic wall that he's building around himself
Speaker 2: to protect himself. If Jimmy doesn't like kids, there's no
Speaker 2: reason to explore his relationship with kids. If he has
Speaker 2: no emotions, there's nothing to figure out about his inner life.
Speaker 2: Stop looking, right, That's why he's doing this. And the
Speaker 2: only thing that's really remarkable to me is how well
Speaker 2: this all works. Part of why this is something I'm
Speaker 2: not super well qualified to say to talk about, but
Speaker 2: it's the thing I've seen written about is that British
Speaker 2: culture had and still has for generations celebrated a specific
Speaker 2: kind of what we're often called quote uniquely British eccentrics. Right,
Speaker 2: there's a long, proud tradition of like weirdos in public
Speaker 2: life in British history that is, up to a point, celebrated.
Speaker 2: If you get famous enough for something, then the fact
Speaker 2: that you're like a weirdo stops being a thing that
Speaker 2: you'd get like mocked for and like something people celebrate. Right,
Speaker 2: It's just kind of this aspect of Britain's not the
Speaker 2: only place where this happens, but it's known as like
Speaker 2: a very British thing, and in fact, in thatchers like
Speaker 2: her announcement of his knighthood. She talks about him as
Speaker 2: like he's one of the great British eccentrics. You know.
Speaker 2: Sometimes our wonderful little island, it produces these splendid weirdos,
Speaker 2: you know, and we like to celebrate our weirdos in England.
Speaker 2: That's kind of the idea right now. It's been noted
Speaker 2: by several of these analyzes that I've read and seen
Speaker 2: summarize that like this whole persona, this thing is calculated
Speaker 2: like he is. He understands that there's this attitude that like, well,
Speaker 2: often a lot of like great public figures in British
Speaker 2: history are these eccentrics. So if I'm just an eccentric,
Speaker 2: then I'm not dangerous, right, and it discourages people from
Speaker 2: looking into me. Right. It's a boundary testing mechanism. That's
Speaker 2: how some of these reports will frame it.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 2: He's seeing how much quote unquote calculated oddity is one
Speaker 2: of the terms used an institution will tolerate, and that
Speaker 2: helps him see, can I violate more rules?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: Okay? I did this thing which is like harmless, but
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to do it. Did they let me Okay,
Speaker 2: that means I can do a little more. That means
Speaker 2: I can do a little more, right, That's how he's working.
Speaker 2: This is very methodical, right, and that's what we call
Speaker 2: these people predators, you know. And there's a difference. There's
Speaker 2: an important difference. And I don't want this to come
Speaker 2: across as minimizing the other thing. But when you're talking
Speaker 2: about like some like famous musician who statutory commits statutory
Speaker 2: rape on like a thirteen or fourteen year old girl
Speaker 2: because like she's around, and he doesn't give a fuck,
Speaker 2: and he's being provided with with with girls. You know,
Speaker 2: he shows up to do it and he's provided girls
Speaker 2: and he doesn't care how old they are. And that
Speaker 2: happens at a point in this musician's life. That's like
Speaker 2: a bad thing. There should be accountability for that. It's
Speaker 2: not okay. It's a real problem if that doesn't ever
Speaker 2: occur outside, if that person is not continuing to go
Speaker 2: after people of that age. There's a difference between that
Speaker 2: and predatory behavior, where you're actively going out of your
Speaker 2: way to find victims and to groom victims and to
Speaker 2: groom institutions to provide you with victims. These are both
Speaker 2: really bad things. But they're different levels, right. I think
Speaker 2: it's important to see the difference between someone who does
Speaker 2: not care morally about what they're doing as long as
Speaker 2: they get to like satisfy their urges, and someone whose
Speaker 2: brain works in such a way that they are constantly
Speaker 2: looking for holes in organizations and institutions and people that
Speaker 2: they can use in order to gain leverage so that
Speaker 2: they can commit harm, you.
Speaker 5: Know, the point where they're doing charity so that they
Speaker 5: can hurt people.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's a different breed.
Speaker 2: There's a real different breed. It's an escalation. So this
Speaker 2: scoping behavior, which is mentioned in the broad More report
Speaker 2: talking about his interactions with women, is a really important
Speaker 2: thing to understand because like these are like the fact
Speaker 2: that he's doing reconnaissance is noteworthy, and there's a there's
Speaker 2: a good line and that investigative psychiatry right up that
Speaker 2: that that reads quote he was constantly probing for the
Speaker 2: point where Jimmy being Jimmy ended and Sir Jimmy Savill began.
Speaker 2: I think that's it. That's an important thing to note.
Speaker 2: The term grooming is usually deployed to refer to something
Speaker 2: abusers do to their victims, but What I like about
Speaker 2: that article is that it talks about institutional grooming, right,
Speaker 2: the grooming of these different hospitals and organizations that allow
Speaker 2: him to get access to his victims. Quote, he identified
Speaker 2: the specific needs of an institution, such as fundraising in
Speaker 2: the NHS or industrial mediation in broad more, and fulfilled
Speaker 2: them to create a debt of gratitude. This symbolic power
Speaker 2: then allowed him to operate in a clinical vacuum. So
Speaker 2: this is a complex, multipart process. He's putting a lot
Speaker 2: of thought into this and a lot of effort. Once
Speaker 2: he's got an in.
Speaker 5: Sorry no, it mirrors the Epstein thing in a way too,
Speaker 5: like whether the charity and also the fact that I
Speaker 5: don't know if he was, but if people think he's
Speaker 5: a spy or whatever, that's the point. That's the level
Speaker 5: of institutional grooming he's doing. Yeah, that's super interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. Yeah. So once he's got an in at
Speaker 2: a facility that he wants to be in at, either
Speaker 2: because his fundraising saves the hospital or whatever, or because
Speaker 2: he's been appointed to a task force or you know, however,
Speaker 2: he gets in, Sevil will start dressing. When he's working
Speaker 2: at these hospitals, like a member of the clinical staff.
Speaker 2: He wears a white coat, right. He helps in aspects
Speaker 2: of patient care. He's helping during intake, and he's not
Speaker 2: just grooming his victims. He's grooming the staff to accept
Speaker 2: him as legitimate. And the fact that and off. Most
Speaker 2: of the time he's not abusing the patient. Most of
Speaker 2: the time when he's acting as an orderly he is
Speaker 2: just doing orderly work, and that grooms the patients to
Speaker 2: no one's on guard when Jimmy walks in their room.
Speaker 2: He's supposed to be there. You know, there is some evidence,
Speaker 2: not direct, but like you can tell it by inference
Speaker 2: that during the nineties, Jimmy Savill continued to participate in
Speaker 2: parties and events where teenagers were provided as basically sex
Speaker 2: toys for the rich and powerful. Petronella Wyatt, a British
Speaker 2: journalist who once had an affair with Boris Johnson, wrote
Speaker 2: an article for The Spectator, which is a conservative magazine,
Speaker 2: in which she relates some of the things she experienced
Speaker 2: while socializing with this crowd in the years after Sir
Speaker 2: Jimmy's knighthood. Back in the nineteen nineties, I used to
Speaker 2: see teenage girls with eyes the color of Vervin at
Speaker 2: some of the extravagant parties I was invited to. Looking back,
Speaker 2: I have a fair idea of why they were there,
Speaker 2: but it never occurred to me to ask their age
Speaker 2: or protest their presence. Was I complicit and like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you were? Like definitely, That's what that means. She doesn't
Speaker 2: allege that Jimmy was providing the girls at these parties.
Speaker 2: In fact, she doesn't interrogate how that's happening at all.
Speaker 2: But we know he was aware or he was at
Speaker 2: many of these events right, And we know he was
Speaker 2: in a position to his access to psychiatric hospitals and
Speaker 2: his access to like the Duncroft Approved School for Girls,
Speaker 2: could have allowed him to provide girls to such events.
Speaker 2: We know he took girls out of facilities like Duncroft
Speaker 2: and took them too, like the BBC to see film
Speaker 2: and know so we know he's taking girls that he
Speaker 2: is raping and taking them to secondary and tertiary locations
Speaker 2: from hospitals and from like the approved school. Is it
Speaker 2: so crazy to think that maybe he used his access
Speaker 2: to provide girls to parties for his rich and famous friends.
Speaker 2: I can't prove that. Is that such a crazy thing
Speaker 2: to think might have happened.
Speaker 3: I don't want a crazy leave.
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty likely that something like that went on.
Speaker 2: I might even say that at this point the burden
Speaker 2: of proof would be on the attendees of those parties
Speaker 2: to prove that nothing like that happened, because of what
Speaker 2: we know happened now. I've noted a few times in
Speaker 2: these episodes that several friends of Jimmy's, including Gary Glitter,
Speaker 2: were brought down by child molestation scandals, but Jimmy remained
Speaker 2: untainted throughout the rest of his life and career. Some
Speaker 2: of this was surely due to his royal connections. Saville
Speaker 2: was invited to Prince Charles's fortieth birthday, and when Jimmy
Speaker 2: turned eighty in two thousand and six, he received a
Speaker 2: box of Cuban cigars and a set of cuff links
Speaker 2: from the Now well, now he's king. He wasn't king
Speaker 2: in two thousand and six, but from Prince Charles, with
Speaker 2: a note saying, nobody will ever know what you have
Speaker 2: done for this country. This is to go some way
Speaker 2: in thanking you for that.
Speaker 5: Hmm.
Speaker 4: He's stupid or creepy or both.
Speaker 2: He's probably just talking about the marriage counseling and the
Speaker 2: pr stuff probably not worth looking into. Probably fine, probably
Speaker 2: fine ll. Prince Charles probably didn't know anything about, you know,
Speaker 2: all the rape and stuff. King Charles definitely innocent, for sure,
Speaker 2: for sure. It was just just Prince Andrew was the
Speaker 2: only bad one, and Lord Mountbatten only bad ones. You know,
Speaker 2: we're good anyway, cool stuff. Princess Die unfortunately remained friends
Speaker 2: with Savill for the remainder of her life. So far
Speaker 2: as I can tell, she traveled with him to Stoke,
Speaker 2: Mandibal and other hospitals for charitable events, and she seems
Speaker 2: to have held him in high regard. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know how much of that was set dressing.
Speaker 2: I don't know her in her life. I don't know
Speaker 2: what she would have been aware of. Probably I assume
Speaker 2: Savill would have tried to hide the details of what
Speaker 2: he was doing. But again, enough stuff was obvious. We've
Speaker 2: quoted so much from him being interviewed. She can't have
Speaker 2: not known something. She has to have been a little
Speaker 2: aware at the very least that something wasn't right with
Speaker 2: this guy. I don't know. I can't say for sure.
Speaker 2: In the late nineties and early two thousands, Jimmy was
Speaker 2: no longer a massive TV star in his own right,
Speaker 2: but he was now famous for being famous, and he
Speaker 2: was regularly trotted out in documentaries and TV shows. He's
Speaker 2: a big guest star in this period of time, and
Speaker 2: a lot of like BBC shows. In nineteen ninety five,
Speaker 2: the journalist and TV host Andrew Neil has him on
Speaker 2: for an episode of Is This Your Life? Which I
Speaker 2: think is like a supposed to celebrate different kind of
Speaker 2: famous people in British life, right. So Neil has Saffalon
Speaker 2: for a friendly interview which includes some cheeky questions about
Speaker 2: his romantic history and his past is a wrestler. And
Speaker 2: even then, when he's being interviewed about his life on
Speaker 2: TV in nineteen ninety five, Jimmy can't avoid throwing in
Speaker 2: some side remarks hinting at his crimes. So here's the
Speaker 2: segment from that episode where he's talking Andrew's asking him
Speaker 2: about his time as a wrestler. He used to be
Speaker 2: a wrestler.
Speaker 7: I still hi, I'm fit in every girls school in
Speaker 7: this country.
Speaker 2: Great. Got a lot of laughs, ha ha, a crowd
Speaker 2: of wild I do like the look on because after
Speaker 2: he says that one of the people who's on the
Speaker 2: show with Neil is like a black woman who's like,
Speaker 2: I'm assuming some sort of journalist to present her and
Speaker 2: she has this like, oh you just said that. Huh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know anything else about that, lady, but her
Speaker 2: eyes say a lot. Sure, but you can, I mean
Speaker 2: you can just hear in the joke how casually he
Speaker 2: is about it, right, Like, just the audio of it
Speaker 2: says enough that the how casually he jokes about wrestling
Speaker 2: children a girls school, those are kids, and the uproarious
Speaker 2: laughter from the audience very funny. Hah, Jimmy, Yes, it's
Speaker 2: so funny how you joke about molesting little girls? We
Speaker 2: love it.
Speaker 5: Here.
Speaker 2: In the year two thousand, one of Britain's best documentarians,
Speaker 2: Louis Thereau, published a documentary on Jimmy and the flat
Speaker 2: that Jimmy had originally purchased for his mother. One of
Speaker 2: the shortcomings of these episodes is we're not nearly going
Speaker 2: into enough to tale about how weird Jimmy is about
Speaker 2: his mom, but it's clearly the only person he ever
Speaker 2: loves and when she passes on, and she had In
Speaker 2: two thousand, when Louis throw shows up at his flat.
Speaker 2: To this documentary, Jimmy's mom had died twenty seven years earlier,
Speaker 2: and he still kept her room exactly the way it
Speaker 2: had been the day she died. Her clothing was like
Speaker 2: shrink wrapped in plastic, but still folded in her wardrobe.
Speaker 2: As I noted earlier, Threau does probe some of the
Speaker 2: rumors around Jimmy in a, you know, a legally safe way,
Speaker 2: like starting when he asks him like, why did you
Speaker 2: claim to hate children? And Jimmy's like, well, it stops
Speaker 2: the tabloids from looking into stuff? And after that line,
Speaker 2: Louis asks, is that basically so the tabloids don't pursue
Speaker 2: this hole? Is he or isn't he a pedophile line?
Speaker 2: And Saville replied, oh, I how do they know whether
Speaker 2: or not I am? How does anybody know whether I am?
Speaker 2: Nobody knows whether I am or not. I know I'm not.
Speaker 2: That's my policy and it's worked to dream.
Speaker 3: Cool riddle bro Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fun fun stuff now. In a write up on
Speaker 2: all this, the UK Mirror notes quote Louis had attempted
Speaker 2: to report Savill for abuse after the production, but the
Speaker 2: report was not followed up on. He claimed that he
Speaker 2: attempted to report him in two thousand and one after
Speaker 2: a female came forward and claimed that she to have
Speaker 2: been one of Savill's girlfriends when she was fifteen. So
Speaker 2: Louie doesn't do nothing, but I gotta say like, and
Speaker 2: I've been a fan of the guy for most of
Speaker 2: my adult life. He had a big influence on how
Speaker 2: I interview people, how I approach stuff as a journalist.
Speaker 2: I really do have a lot of admiration for him,
Speaker 2: and particularly he's very good at not giving at getting people,
Speaker 2: not just getting people to talk, giving them enough rope
Speaker 2: to hang themselves, but pressing them on things that are
Speaker 2: hard to press on, that are awkward and like uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Like that's a thing Louis has made a career on doing,
Speaker 2: and he doesn't do nearly enough considering what he must
Speaker 2: have known. And one of the things that frustrates me
Speaker 2: is after Savile dies, even knowing all this, even having
Speaker 2: allegedly reported him in two thousand and two thousand and one,
Speaker 2: Louis makes a big show of publicly mourning Savile, of
Speaker 2: calling him basically a great Britain right after he dies.
Speaker 2: Up until the allegations spill out, and I think it's
Speaker 2: just my guess would be once he dies. There's first off,
Speaker 2: there was massive immediate public mourning. It doesn't come out
Speaker 2: immediately like he has a huge He has basically a
Speaker 2: state funeral. The Royal Marines are there escorting his fucking
Speaker 2: gold casket, so there's a big The whole country is
Speaker 2: mourning him. I think number one, Louis probably didn't want
Speaker 2: to be the only person being like I think this
Speaker 2: guy was a pedophile, he's a BBC personality. There's probably
Speaker 2: professional pressure. He just doesn't And I shouldn't be focusing
Speaker 2: on Louis more than all of these other editors that
Speaker 2: we've talked about, because he did more than nothing, but
Speaker 2: it just wasn't enough. And that's all I'll say. I
Speaker 2: don't think this is like damning of him into perpetuity.
Speaker 2: From my understanding, Louis regrets not doing more. He's talked
Speaker 2: pretty openly about like the fact that he wishes he
Speaker 2: had done a better job, and that's life. It's all
Speaker 2: I'll go on from there, but I think it's worth noting.
Speaker 2: In two thousand and seven, one of the Duncroft girls
Speaker 2: Saville abused went to police in Surrey and reported him.
Speaker 2: The police ultimately concluded there was not enough evidence to
Speaker 2: pursue a case. Later investigation has made it clear that
Speaker 2: the evidence was mishandled and the department was pushed to
Speaker 2: avoid following. Up to the end of his life, Saville
Speaker 2: maintained friendships with influential members of the Yorkshire Police, hosting
Speaker 2: what he called his Friday morning club, in which he'd
Speaker 2: have coffee with various senior inspectors and the like. It's
Speaker 2: like him having coffee with a bunch of cops every Friday.
Speaker 2: These is really at the end of his life once
Speaker 2: all of his pedophile friends go to prison. His primary
Speaker 2: social group is cops who I'm guessing also have been
Speaker 2: pedophiles or.
Speaker 3: At least covering up for him.
Speaker 2: Certainly covering up for him, we know they did. That
Speaker 2: was Jimmy maybe using his access to teenage girls to
Speaker 2: provide police officers with access to teenage girls, a thing
Speaker 2: he kind of insinuated doing or previously. I don't know,
Speaker 2: someone should look into that. Maybe Jimmy's influence was such
Speaker 2: that in two thousand and eight, the Yorkshire Police picked
Speaker 2: him to voice several West Yorkshire Talking Street signs giving
Speaker 2: advice to locals on of all things crime prevention. A
Speaker 2: great two thousand and eight, cool two thousand and eight.
Speaker 2: But in the aughts stories kept spreading online about Jimmy.
Speaker 2: A victim had come forward in two thousand and three,
Speaker 2: and a complaint in two thousand and eight was reported
Speaker 2: on by the Sun. So it's starting. This wall he's
Speaker 2: got between him and the media is starting to falter
Speaker 2: and flicker out even by that point in time. In
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, Jimmy was interviewed by police in Surrey.
Speaker 2: He said, up the complaint. That's why I have up
Speaker 2: in Yorkshire where I live in Leeds. It's a collection
Speaker 2: of senior police persons who come to see me socially.
Speaker 2: I give them all my weirdo letters and they take
Speaker 2: them back to the station and say, oh, have you
Speaker 2: seen what Jimmy's got today? When the police asked whether
Speaker 2: Savill gives them to the police, and so basically he
Speaker 2: says this, and he's being interviewed and they're like, well,
Speaker 2: do you give these letters to the police to investigate Savills?
Speaker 2: Then response no, no, not investigate them, no, not to
Speaker 2: do anything with them. But if anything happens to me.
Speaker 2: So he's basically insinuating, Oh, I just give these to
Speaker 2: the police in case some crazy fan murders me. Right,
Speaker 2: what's actually happening here is he's whenever he has a problem,
Speaker 2: whenever he thinks he's going to get reported on, he
Speaker 2: has his cop friends he goes to and they were
Speaker 2: pretty good at making it go away. Jimmy Saville was
Speaker 2: able to outrun justice his entire life, but he did
Speaker 2: not outrun death. He dies on October twenty ninth, twenty eleven.
Speaker 2: Once he was gone, his power to stop such investigations
Speaker 2: came to a sputtering end. In less than a year.
Speaker 2: He went from publicly mourned and buried in a gold
Speaker 2: coffin escorted by the Marines, to having his headstone ground
Speaker 2: down to rubble. They removed the big headstone he's got,
Speaker 2: which says his epitaph was it was nice while it lasted.
Speaker 2: Em like they have to in order to stop people
Speaker 2: from like defacing the cemetery. Basically they have to grind
Speaker 2: it into fucking crumbs and ushould just let people to
Speaker 2: face it. But yeah, you know, numerous police and institutional
Speaker 2: investigations are launched, and by December of twenty twelve, just
Speaker 2: a year after his death, the number of alleged victims
Speaker 2: had reached four hundred and fifty. That is, a year
Speaker 2: after he dies. Where are we now in terms of
Speaker 2: total victims known? Well, I'm going to quote from a
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen article in The Guardian. The BBC will be
Speaker 2: plunged into a major crisis with the publication of a
Speaker 2: damning review expected next month that will reveal its staff
Speaker 2: turned a blind eye to the rape and sexual assault
Speaker 2: of up to one thousand girls and boys by Jimmy
Speaker 2: Saville in the corporation's changing rooms and studios. Dame Janet Smith,
Speaker 2: a former Court of Appeal judge who previously led the
Speaker 2: inquiry into the by doctor Harold Shipman, will say into
Speaker 2: her in her report that the true number of victims
Speaker 2: of savile sexual proclivities may never be known, but that
Speaker 2: his behavior had been recognized by BBC executives who took
Speaker 2: no action. I want to really highlight something we know.
Speaker 2: He rapes and molests at least a thousand boys and
Speaker 2: girls in BBC changing rooms and studios. I've see this,
Speaker 2: mister Porter, is a thousand victims. That's just a thousand victims.
Speaker 2: In BBC property.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've been talking about the home.
Speaker 3: Thousand in the hospital thousands, yes, thousands.
Speaker 5: Also, the original victims are old as ship by now
Speaker 5: and most of them are dead, probably died, yes.
Speaker 2: And he's specifically going after people who are probably statistically
Speaker 2: going to die earlier because they're folks who run into
Speaker 2: trouble with the law. They're folks who have mental health
Speaker 2: or physical health problems.
Speaker 4: You know, the children that he uh assaulted when they
Speaker 4: were in the hospital for terminal illnesses. That's one of
Speaker 4: the worst things I've ever heard.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yep.
Speaker 4: What did he die from?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Being an old piece of shit? I forget he dies
Speaker 2: in his home peacefully.
Speaker 3: I was hoping it hurt.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't have that for you. I do have
Speaker 2: one little bit of satisfaction Shoten Freud or whatever from
Speaker 2: earlier in his life. And I mentioned there's a wrestling
Speaker 2: story that I didn't tell earlier that I wanted to
Speaker 2: save for until now, right, because this is pretty bleak
Speaker 2: and I don't have a good Jimmy got his comeuppance,
Speaker 2: but there is one time where he got a little
Speaker 2: bit of punishment for being a giant monster. So we're
Speaker 2: gonna talk about that now. So during his wrestling days,
Speaker 2: there's this wrestler named Exotic Adrian Street who like he's
Speaker 2: he's like he's one of he's a heel, right, He's
Speaker 2: somebody fans loved to hate. I think he's like a
Speaker 2: guy who dresses like very flamboyantly, you know, in order
Speaker 2: to and that's part of like his uh, this fucking
Speaker 2: evil like weirdo. Right, And so he's matched with savile
Speaker 2: at some point and he would let it. And I
Speaker 2: found all this in an article for Whales Online. So
Speaker 2: it was Wales Online that talked to Adrian Street about
Speaker 2: this quote. The promoters were trying to put Savel across
Speaker 2: is a bit of a tough guy in those days,
Speaker 2: and they were trying to get other proper wrestlers to
Speaker 2: throw their matches with him. It was all part of
Speaker 2: some big, stupid gimmick, says Street. And when I found
Speaker 2: out I was up against him next, I wasn't very happy,
Speaker 2: not least because I'd just beaten world lightweight champion George
Speaker 2: Kid at Noddingham Ice Rink the night before. In fact,
Speaker 2: I'd put him in the hospital. So when it was
Speaker 2: it suggested like, hey, why don't you know you're gonna
Speaker 2: fight this DJ, Well, let's have it in a draw.
Speaker 2: That'll be good for everybody. And Street's like, fuck that
Speaker 2: shit quote. His cronies were telling me, don't underestimate Jim,
Speaker 2: he's trained with the Royal Marines. But I was having
Speaker 2: none of it. I kicked his legs from underneath him,
Speaker 2: so he hit the deck that I picked him up
Speaker 2: by his hair, held him upside down, and dropped him
Speaker 2: on his skull. Then when I looked down at my hands,
Speaker 2: I realized that were covered in hair saveles. I'd torn
Speaker 2: huge clumps out of his scalp. He absolutely crucified the bloke,
Speaker 2: And when I spoke to my wife afterwards, she said
Speaker 2: I'd looked like a hungry fox going after a chicken.
Speaker 2: Savile never returned to the wrestling ring after that, and
Speaker 2: I never clapped eyes on him again, like that's that's
Speaker 2: the that's the story. And he did tell whales online.
Speaker 2: Had I known then the full extent of what I
Speaker 2: know about him now, I'd have given him an even
Speaker 2: bigger beating, were that physically possible. So at least we've
Speaker 2: got that.
Speaker 3: Okay, that was That was a little treat we needed.
Speaker 2: I definitely you guys deserved something.
Speaker 3: Thanks for the sprinkle.
Speaker 2: Thank you Adrian Street for beating the shit out of
Speaker 2: Jimmy Saville.
Speaker 4: Someone had still fuck up that this man lived to
Speaker 4: what twenty eleven did you say, or twenty twelve, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Twenty eleven. He dies late twenty eleven.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he that all of the survivors of this man,
Speaker 4: which there were thousands, thousands of victims, did not get
Speaker 4: to have any sort of justice while he was alive. No,
Speaker 4: they did not get to confront him. Nobody believed them.
Speaker 4: The libel laws fucked them over. The BBC is despicable.
Speaker 4: Royal Family is the Royal family. Yeah, it's just unfathomably
Speaker 4: gross that this man was one of the worst pedophiles
Speaker 4: of maybe all time, and of the one of the
Speaker 4: pedoist of the files for sure, and was you know,
Speaker 4: united by both the Royal family and the Catholic.
Speaker 2: Church, and was.
Speaker 4: Given I don't know, there's certain thoughts that things that
Speaker 4: are like you know, impregnating minors and the fact that
Speaker 4: he was given an apartment at.
Speaker 2: That girls fucking.
Speaker 4: Psychiatric hospital. Sorry, so many people just like let this
Speaker 4: happen and let him be this person.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's disgusting, and Robert kind of brilliant storytelling in
Speaker 5: episode one when you give us the graphic horrible scene
Speaker 5: because everything we've been through after I just keep remembering
Speaker 5: because it's easy to kind of gloss over the scope
Speaker 5: of it. And when you think about that times five thousand,
Speaker 5: ten thousand, we have no idea, Holy shit.
Speaker 6: Yeah, at least at least we know who to really
Speaker 6: blame for the Princess Diana, Prince Charles divorce, the guy advice.
Speaker 2: Jimmy Savill's who's to blame?
Speaker 4: Maybe if somebody else we couldn't those those those kids
Speaker 4: could have stayed in love. It wasn't you know, for
Speaker 4: all of Charles is hateful and Fidelas.
Speaker 2: Is surely the only thing wrong, only thing wrong with
Speaker 2: their relationship.
Speaker 4: Yeah, anyways, Court, you want to plug your book for us?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I need a shower. But check out my book.
Speaker 3: It's called Girl Gone Wild.
Speaker 5: It is it's a coming of age story about trying
Speaker 5: to make it in Hollywood, and it is a feminist
Speaker 5: story that you definitely need after this.
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great idea. Why don't you all enjoy that?
Speaker 2: And I will cook up some horrible for you, but
Speaker 2: honestly probably a lot less horrible than this next week.
Speaker 2: Bye weoll bye.
Speaker 4: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
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Speaker 4: episodes that Behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix,
Speaker 4: dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Remind me on Netflix you
Speaker 4: don't miss an episode. For clips in our older episode catalog,
Speaker 4: continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel YouTube dot com
Speaker 4: slash at Behind the Bastards. We love about forty percent
Speaker 4: of you, statistically speaking,