1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. I went on a trip 4 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: to Asheville, North Carolina, a couple of weeks ago. That's 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: always been one of my favorite places, but I don't 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: think I had been back there since moving to Massachusetts. 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: Parts of that whole region have only barely started to 8 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: recover from Hurricane Helene, which weakened to a tropical storm 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: as it moved over Georgia, but it still produced truly 10 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: devastating destruction in the southern Appalachian Mountains. But while I 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: was there, I talked to a lot of people who 12 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: worked in hotels and restaurants and shops and galleries around Asheville, 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: and they were all very anxious for tourism to get 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: back toward its normal levels there. One of the things 15 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: that I did on this trip was I drove the 16 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: small stretch of the Blue Ridge Parkway that is open 17 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: near Asheville. At this point, I stopped at the Folk 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: Arts Center, which is at one end of that open section, 19 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: and there was a historical display outside about construction of 20 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: the Blue Ridge Parkway that made me think, you know, 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 1: that might be a really good episode. The Blue Ridge 22 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: Parkway was inspired by another kind of similar scenic drive, 23 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: which is Skyline Drive in Shenandoah National Park, which the 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: Blue Ridge Parkway also connects to. So my plan was 25 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: to have an episode where we talked a little bit 26 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: about Skyline Drive and then focused the rest of the 27 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: time on the Blue Ridge Parkway. But during my whole 28 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: note taking process, Skyline Drive and Shenandoah National Park evolved 29 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: into their own entire episode. So that's today's episode. If 30 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: you've been like Tracy, why are you talking about the 31 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: Blue Ridge Parkway, that one's actually gonna be on Wednesday. 32 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: This isn't really a two parter. It's more like two 33 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: episodes that have some interconnectedness. So if you're one of 34 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: the folks who likes to listen to the two parters together, 35 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: I think in this case you don't really need to wait. 36 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: Like there are some points where these two stories touch 37 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: each other. But this isn't exactly a two part episode. 38 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: So we'll start with a little background on the national parks. 39 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: The first national park in the United States was created 40 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: under the Yellowstone National Park Protection Act, which President Ulysses S. 41 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: Grant signed into law in eighteen seventy two. This Act 42 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: quote set apart a certain tract of land lying near 43 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: the headwaters of the Yellowstone River as a public park. 44 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: Under this law, this tract of land was quote hereby 45 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: reserved and withdrawn from settlement, occupancy, or sale under the 46 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: Laws of the United States, and dedicated and set apart 47 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: as a public park or pleasuring ground for the benefit 48 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: and enjoyment of the people, and all persons who shall 49 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: locate or settle upon, or occupy the same or any 50 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: part thereof, except as hereinafter provided, shall be considered trespassers 51 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: and removed therefrom This law placed Yellowstone under the control 52 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: of the Secretary of the Interior, who was directed to 53 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: create rules and regulations to quote provide for the preservation 54 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: from injury or spoliation of all timber, mineral deposits, natural curiosities, 55 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: or wonders within said park, and their retention in their 56 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: natural condition. Any structures built on the designated land were 57 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: to be for the accommodation of visitors. Fish and game 58 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: were to be protected from quote wanton destruction and from 59 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: their capture or destruction. For the purposes of profit. Under 60 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: this law, anyone settling on or occupying land in Yellowstone 61 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: would be considered a trespasser and removed. This Act was 62 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: ostensibly about conserving and preserving Yellowstone and its natural wonders, 63 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: but it really didn't make any provisions or exceptions for 64 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: the Indigenous peoples who had been living on, using, and 65 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: acting as stewards of this land since time immemorial. While 66 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: some tribes and nations were still supposed to have fishing 67 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: or hunting rights by treaty, later legislation made that explicitly illegal. 68 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: In other words, federal policy and the whole mindset around 69 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: the National Parks framed Yellowstone as an untouched wilderness rather 70 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: than as a place where people had been living, hunting, gathering, 71 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: and harvesting for thousands of years. The fish, game and 72 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: plants in the park had been a vital source of 73 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: food for indigenous peoples, and those protected mineral deposits included 74 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: sources of obsidian that Indigenous people had been using to 75 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: make tools and projectile points. Yellowstone also holds a deep 76 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: spiritual significance for a number of Indigenous nations, and it's 77 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: considered sacred. The federal government forcibly removed Indigenous peoples who 78 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: had been living on or using the land in Yellowstone, 79 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: including the Tukadika, to reservations outside the bounds of the park, 80 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: and publicly presented a fiction that Yellowstone had always been 81 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: uninhabited and unused. This included a pretty insulting, made up 82 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: story about how Indigenous people didn't come to Yellowstone because 83 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: they were afraid of the geysers. I do want to 84 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: say I love the national parks. I'm glad that we 85 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: have them. There are complicated things that I do not 86 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: like about their history. We'll talk about that a bit 87 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: more in a second. After the creation of Yellowstone, other 88 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: national parks followed that included Yosemite National Park in eighteen ninety. 89 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: We talked about Yosemite in a two parter that ran 90 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: on August eighth and ten tenth of twenty sixteen. And 91 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: through the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, the creation of 92 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: these parks generally followed a really similar pattern. They were 93 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: formed from federal land under legislation that framed it as 94 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: being conserved and protected for the people, but the United 95 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: States had obtained this land through warfare, genocide, and exploitive 96 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: treaties with the indigenous peoples, and then the government forcibly 97 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: removed those people from the land while maintaining this fiction 98 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: that the park was protecting something that was pristine and 99 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: untouched by humanity. So we can't really cover the entire 100 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: history of indigenous people's relationships to these parks in one episode, 101 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: but more than a century would pass before the federal 102 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: government started to take an approach that was more cooperative 103 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: and collaborative than when these parks were established. It's also 104 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: not really clear at this point how the Trump administration 105 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: will be approaching co stewardship agreements that were signed under 106 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: the Biden Yeah, I think a lot of those agreements 107 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: were a step in addressing some of the historical wrongs 108 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:12,119 Speaker 1: of these parks. In nineteen sixteen, the National Park Service Act, 109 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: also known as the Organic Act, created the National Park Service. 110 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: Like the first National Parks, the National Park Service was 111 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: established under the Department of the Interior, and the words 112 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: of this Act quote, the Service thus established shall promote 113 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: and regulate the use of the federal areas known as 114 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: National parks, monuments, and reservations, hereinafter specified by such means 115 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: and measures as conformed to the fundamental purposes of the 116 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: said parks, monuments, and reservations, which purpose is to conserve 117 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: the scenery and the natural and historic objects and the 118 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: wildlife therein, and to provide for the enjoyment of the 119 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: same in such manner and by such means as will 120 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations. Most 121 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: of the US population lived in the eastern half of 122 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: the country, but with the exception of Mackinaw National Park, 123 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: which had been on Mackinaw Island in Lake Huron from 124 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy five to eighteen ninety five, there were no 125 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,679 Speaker 1: national parks east of the Mississippi River when the National 126 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: Park Service was founded. That changed with the creation of 127 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: Acadian National Park, originally known as Lafayette National Park in 128 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen. Acadia is in Maine, so it was closer 129 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: to people in the eastern US than the parks in 130 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: the west were, but it still really wasn't convenient to 131 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: major cities in the east, so Stephen T. Mather, first 132 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: Director of the National Park Service, advocated for the creation 133 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: of a park that was closer to some of the 134 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: major eastern cities. He convinced Secretary of the Interior, Hubert 135 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: work to appoint a committee to find a place for 136 00:08:55,679 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: a park, specifically in the Southern Appalachian Mountains, ideally within 137 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: an easy drive of Washington, d c. To that end, 138 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: the Southern Appalachian National Park Committee was established in nineteen 139 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: twenty four. Please don't come at me for how I 140 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 1: said Appalachian. That same year, Congress passed legislation to authorize 141 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: and fund the construction and reconstruction of roads, trails, and 142 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: bridges in the National Parks, which was becoming more of 143 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: a necessity as more people had access to cars. At 144 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: this point, the good Roads movement was well under way, 145 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,599 Speaker 1: having started in the late nineteenth century after the development 146 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: of practical and affordable bicycles. We talked about this more 147 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: in our episode on Kitty Knox and the Bike Boom 148 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: that came out on January ninth, twenty twenty three. By 149 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, the good Roads movement's focus had shifted 150 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: more to the needs of cars and motorists rather than 151 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: bicycles and cyclists. In nineteen twenty four, when this law 152 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: was passed, the US had a population of about one 153 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 1: hundred and fourteen million people, and there were about sixteen 154 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: million cars on the road. This was also tied to 155 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: the Sea America First Movement. That slogan was coined in 156 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: the early twentieth century, encouraging people to travel along these 157 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: newly established roads and the railroads, including going to the 158 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: national parks to travel and vacation in the United States 159 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: rather than going to Europe. After the passage of this 160 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty four legislation, the National Park Service worked out 161 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: a memorandum of agreement with the Bureau of Public Roads, 162 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: which would later be known as the Federal Highway Administration. 163 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: This agreement laid out standards for the survey, construction, and 164 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: improvement of roads and trails in the National parks and 165 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: national monuments. The Bureau of Public Roads provided engineers and 166 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,359 Speaker 1: technical expertise, while the National Park Service provided landscape architects 167 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: who focused on designing roadways that had a naturalistic design. 168 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: The actual construction was typically done by private firms under 169 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 1: contract to the BPR. So all of this, the roads 170 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: and this agreement, and the Sea America First Movement was 171 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: part of the creation of Shenandoah National Park and Skyline Drive. 172 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: We'll have more on that after a sponsor break in 173 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty four, the Southern Appalachian National Park Committee developed 174 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 1: a questionnaire to solicit public feedback about possible locations for 175 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: a national park. The committee traveled all around the Southern 176 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: Appalachian Mountains. They mainly looked at sites in North Carolina, Tennessee, 177 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: and Virginia, but some of the members also went to 178 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: West Virginia, Alabama, and Kentucky. Every state that was under 179 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: consideration was interested in this project due to the potential 180 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 1: to bring in tourism dollars and to have federal investments 181 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: into the roads and other infrastructure that would be needed 182 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: to support the park. So cities and towns all around 183 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: hosted all kinds of festivals and what not to try 184 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: to attract attention. The committee was looking for sites that 185 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: met these criteria quote One mountain scenery with inspiring perspectives 186 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: and delightful details. Two areas sufficiently extensive and adaptable so 187 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: that annually millions of visitors might enjoy the benefits of 188 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: outdoor life and communion with nature without the confusion of overcrowding. 189 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: Three a substantial park to contain forests, shrubs, and flowers, 190 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: and mountain streams with picturesque cascades and waterfalls overhung with foliage, 191 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: all untouched by the hand of man. Four abundant springs 192 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:56,719 Speaker 1: and streams available for camps and fishing. Five opportunities for 193 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: protecting and developing the wildlife of the area. The whole 194 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: to be a natural museum, preserving outstanding features of the 195 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: Southern Appalachians as they appeared in the early pioneer days. 196 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: Six accessibility by rail and road. In their report, the 197 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: committee wrote that quote, several areas were found that contained 198 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: topographic features of great scenic value, where waterfalls, cascades, cliffs, 199 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: and mountain peaks with beautiful valleys lying in their midst 200 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: gave ample assurance that any or all of these areas 201 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: were possible for development into a national park, which would 202 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: compare favorably with any of the existing national parks in 203 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: the West. All that has saved these nearby regions from 204 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: spoliation for so long a time has been their inaccessibility 205 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: and the difficulty of profitably exploiting the timber wealth that 206 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: mantles the steep mountain slopes. With rapidly increasing shortage and 207 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: mountain values of forest products. However, we face the immediate 208 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: danger that the last remnants of our primeval forests will 209 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: be destroyed. However, remote on steep mountain side or hidden 210 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: away in deep, lonely cove, they may be. Ultimately, the 211 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: committee recommended the creation of a park in the Blue 212 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: Ridge Mountains in Virginia. It noted that this site was 213 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: within about a three hour drive of Washington, d c. 214 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: And was within about a day's drive of forty million people, 215 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: and it described what it thought would be the park's 216 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: greatest single feature quote a possible skyline drive along the mountaintop, 217 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: following a continuous ridge and looking down westerly on the 218 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: Shenandoah Valley, some two thousand five hundred to three thousand 219 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: five hundred feet below, and also commanding a view of 220 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: the Piedmont Plain stretching easterly to the Washington Monument, which 221 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: landmark of our national capital may be seen on a 222 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: clear day. Few seen drives in the world could surpass it. 223 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: In other words, this recommended park would be a place 224 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: where people could hike and fish and camp and picnic 225 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: and learn all about plants and wildlife, and get away 226 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: from the noise and the pollution of the city. And 227 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: it would also be a scenic drive that you could 228 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: travel by car. The committee also recommended a second location, 229 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: roughly three hundred miles south of the first, in the 230 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: Great Smoky Mountains on the border between North Carolina and Tennessee. 231 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: The committee thought this site was superior quote because of 232 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: the height of mountains, depth of valleys, ruggedness of the area, 233 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: and the unexampled variety of trees, shrubs, and plants. But 234 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: the Smokies also presented some challenges that the land in 235 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: Virginia did not, including that it was very rugged with 236 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: higher elevations, which would make road and park development more difficult. 237 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: The Smokies also seemed to be prone to excessive rainfall, 238 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: something that the committee couldn't really quantify, but that should 239 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: be studied more thoroughly. When Secretary of the Interior Hubert 240 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: Work passed these recommendations on to the House Committee on 241 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: the Public Lands, he said, in part quote, recognizing the 242 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: tremendous popularity and value of the National park system in 243 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: its service to our people, it is my opinion that 244 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: a definite policy should be adopted by the government for 245 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: the creation of additional National parks in the Eastern Section 246 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: for the public use and general welfare of its millions 247 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: of inhabitants. Most of these live in densely populated communities 248 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: and cannot afford the time or the money required to 249 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: visit the Western national parks. The East contributes its share 250 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: to the upkeep and maintenance of the existing national park system, 251 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: and for that reason, too should be entitled to recognition. 252 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: There were immediate calls for public support for this proposed park. 253 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: For example, the committee's report to Secretary Work was printed 254 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: in National Parks and Conservation Magazine alongside a notice to 255 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: the Women of America by missus John Dickinson Sherman, President 256 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: of the General Federation of Women's Clubs. It's said, in 257 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: part quote, the General Federation of Women's Clubs is a 258 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: service organization. The Women of America constitute the largest body 259 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: for service in the world, and there are none more devoted. 260 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: I appeal not to General Federation women only, but to 261 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: the women of America to support wholeheartedly and enthusiastically the 262 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: choice of Secretary Works Committee. Our National Park system is 263 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: a service system or it is nothing. I am glad 264 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: you read that part, because the last sentence makes me cry. 265 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: We've had good fortune in handing off the cry bits 266 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: to the other person lately. We sure have so Congress 267 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: past legislation authorized the creation of both of the recommended parks, 268 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: which President Calvin Coolidge signed into law on May twenty second, 269 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty six. The site in Virginia would become Shenandoah 270 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: National Park, and the site in North Carolina and Tennessee 271 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: would become Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Three days after that, 272 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: Coolidge also signed legislation approving the establishment of Mammoth Cave 273 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: National Park. There was a big difference between these three 274 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: parks and the ones that had been established in the West. Yellowstone, Yosemite, 275 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: and others had been created from land that the federal 276 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: government already purportedly owned, So the government was setting aside 277 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: land to serve as a park without having to make 278 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: arrangements or spend the money to acquire it. But the 279 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: land for these three parks was privately owned, mostly by 280 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: small individual landowners. It would require a lot of time, money, 281 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: and work to buy all of that land and then 282 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: transition it into a park. The Southern Apalachian National Park 283 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: Committee had referenced this situation in its report, saying, quote, 284 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: we have not attempted to estimate the cost of acquiring 285 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: this area, as we are not sure that it falls 286 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: within the scope of our committee's work. We suggest, however, 287 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: that a spirit of constructive cooperation on the part of 288 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: the State of Virginia and among some of the large 289 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: landowners of this region with whom we have been in 290 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: touch promises reasonable prices and perhaps a number of donations. 291 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: We suggest that of Congress thinks favorable of this proposed 292 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: park site, a commission be appointed to handle the purchase 293 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: and to solicit contributions and to arrange condemnation proceedings. If 294 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: the State of Virginia deems it wise. The creation of 295 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: such a park may well be made contingent on a 296 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: limited total land cost. We talked about the process of 297 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: acquiring land for Mammoth Cave National Park in our episode 298 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: on the Kentucky Cave Wars, which came out on August nineteenth, 299 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. The creation of the Great Smoky Mountains 300 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,959 Speaker 1: National Park is also its own story for Shenandoah National 301 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: Park and Skyline Drive. It was a whole process. The 302 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: plan was for the Commonwealth of Virginia to purchase the 303 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: land and then donate that land to the federal government. 304 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: Virginia didn't actually have a budget to buy that land, 305 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: though the money would at least in theory, be coming 306 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: from donations. So the land that would become Shenandoah National 307 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: Park is the ancestral and traditional homeland of multiple indigenous 308 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: nations and peoples. This includes speakers of at least three 309 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: different language groups, suin, Iroquoian and Algonquian. It's an incredibly 310 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: diverse area, but by the time the park was being proposed, 311 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: most of the region's indigenous peoples had been forced out 312 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: through colonisation, warfare, and removals. This process of displacement and 313 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: erasure was still going on into the twentieth century, including 314 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: through the passage of a Racial Purity Act in Virginia 315 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty four that defined indigenous people with any 316 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: amount of African ancestry as quote colored. We talk about 317 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: this more in our two part episode on Loving versus Virginia, 318 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: which was the nineteen sixty seven Supreme Court decision that 319 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: found laws banning interracial marriage to be unconstitutional. That two 320 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: parter came out on April fifteenth and seventeenth, twenty thirteen. 321 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: So by the time Congress authorized the creation of Shenandoah 322 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: National Park, most of the people living in these mountains 323 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: and valleys were white. They were mainly subsistence farmers who 324 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: lived primarily on small tracts of land that had some 325 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: planted crops, some pasture for their animals, and some forest 326 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: for timber and other resources. There were some people who 327 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: had land they were willing to sell, but for the 328 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: most part it was land they didn't have some other 329 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: kind of use for otherwise. This was often land that 330 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: people had been living and working for generations and they 331 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: didn't want to leave it. So two overlapping, interconnected projects 332 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: started at this point. One was securing the land and 333 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: the right of way that would be necessary to build 334 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 1: that quote possible skyline drive along the mountaintop that the 335 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: committee had described as the possible greatest single feature of 336 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: this National park. That road was intended to travel all 337 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: the way from one end of the park to the other, 338 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: where it would provide access to campgrounds and picnic areas 339 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: and other amenities while also functioning as a scenic road 340 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: for sightseeing. The construction of this road would be paid 341 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: for largely through federal funding. And then the other project 342 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: was to survey and acquire all the land for the 343 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: rest of the park, and that was meant to be 344 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: funded by private donations. We will talk about that more 345 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: after we pause for a sponsor break. When Congress passed 346 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: legislation authorizing the establishment of Shenandoah National Park, it described 347 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: a five hundred and twenty one thousand acre park, with 348 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: that land purchased through donations and private funds not from 349 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: the federal budget. An organization called the Shenandoah Valley National 350 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: Park Association had already been established before this to try 351 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: to raise funds, and it had set an initial goal 352 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: of two point five million dollars. By April of nineteen 353 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: twenty six, it had raised more than one point two 354 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,199 Speaker 1: million dollars in pledges, and that had been enough to 355 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: be able to get that congressional authorization for the park. 356 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: Once Congress had passed the legislation, Virginia Governor Harry F. 357 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: Bird established the Conservation and Development Commission to survey, a praise, 358 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: and actually purchase the necessary land. It became clear almost 359 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: immediately that the two point five million dollar fundraising goal 360 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: was not going to be enough. As we said earlier, 361 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people didn't want to sell their land, 362 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: or they didn't want to sell it as cheaply as 363 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: those initial estimates had assumed. Property values also started to 364 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: increase because of the proposed park. As five hundred twenty 365 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: one thousand acres started to seem impossible, William E. Carson, 366 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: chair of the Conservation and Development Commission, advocated for the 367 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: size of the park to be reduced. This was the 368 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: first in a series of size reductions for the park 369 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: in progress, but it was not enough to bridge the 370 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: gap between the estimates and the reality. It also didn't 371 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,959 Speaker 1: address the fact that the state needed to acquire land 372 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: from hundreds of individual landowners, some of who were adamantly 373 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: opposed to selling, like sometimes appraiser showed up at somebody's 374 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: home and they were greeted with a shotgun. Even in 375 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 1: the best circumstances, this would have been immensely time and 376 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: labor intensive, but the circumstances really just seemed to be 377 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: getting more and more contentious. So in nineteen twenty eight, 378 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: Virginia passed a Blanket Condemnation Act, which allowed the state 379 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: to file one condemnation notice in each of the counties 380 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: where the park was going to be, and then condemn 381 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: all of the applicable land and purchase it by eminent domain. 382 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 1: The thought process behind this law went back to the 383 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: aftermath of the Spanish American War, when the US used 384 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 1: a similar tactic to compensate the Vatican for Church owned 385 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: land that residents of the Philippines had settled on during 386 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: and after the war. Carson's brother had served on the 387 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: Supreme Court of the Philippines and was very familiar with 388 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: this strategy. Of course, this blanket condemnation led to pushback 389 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: and court cases, but it did allow the state to 390 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: start acquiring the necessary land a little more quickly. People 391 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: were paid for their land, but there were a lot 392 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: of disparities in terms of how much they were paid. 393 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: Like people who could afford a lawyer or who knew 394 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: how to contact to get help, they generally did better 395 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: than people who were poor, isolated and didn't have a 396 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: lot of access to education or resources. Like if you 397 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 1: had a personal line to your state rep who could 398 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: argue with this committee on your behalf, you might get 399 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: a lot more money than somebody who really didn't know 400 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: where to start with all of this. But then the 401 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: Great Depression started in nineteen twenty nine, and that meant 402 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: it got a lot harder to bring in new donations 403 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: to pay for the condemned Lane and to collect on 404 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: people's earlier pledges. By nineteen thirty two, the minimum acreage 405 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: needed for the park had been reduced to one hundred 406 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: and sixty thousand acres. It ultimately took ten years and 407 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: an appropriation of a million dollars from the Virginia General 408 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: Assembly to acquire the necessary land. Virginia had not been 409 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: paying to or had not been intending to do that, 410 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: and was like, if we don't put in this million dollars, 411 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: it's not going to happen. As all of this was 412 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: going on, the federal government was also building Skyline Drive 413 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: as the park's access road and scenic parkway. This started 414 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: with the creation of a fishing camp for President Herbert Hoover, 415 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: who was the president at the time. William E. Carson 416 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: had secured exclusive fishing rights on a part of the 417 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: Rapidan River and convinced the President to establish his fishing 418 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: camp there. The presidential fishing camp required a road, and 419 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: this area was also in the middle of an intense drought, 420 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: so this road building became a federal drought relief project. 421 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: The Federal Drought Relief Administration paid for out of work 422 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: farmers and fruit pickers to build the Road, and then 423 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: the road became part of Skyline Drive and the President's 424 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: Fishing Camp became part of Shenandoah National Park. This first 425 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: phase of work initially connected the Fishing Camp to Big Meadows, 426 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: Skyland and Thornton Gap. The idea behind Skyline Drive was 427 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: that the road would be easy to drive on, with 428 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: gentle spiral curves and a speed limit of thirty five 429 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: miles an hour. In most places. Engineers and landscape architects 430 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: used techniques that had been refined on roads and parkways 431 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: in the parks in the West. It was built in 432 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: segments of about ten to twelve miles, with each segment 433 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: being built with a different crew, most of them locally hired. 434 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: Much of the manual labor was paid for by relief programs, 435 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: first drought relief and then relief from the Great Depression. 436 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: These segments had their differences based on the needs of 437 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: the land along each stretch, but there was also a 438 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: sense of unity stemming from the landscape architect's initial work 439 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: to plan a road that would simultaneously have the best 440 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: views and the least impact on the landscape. So the 441 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: road was built along a mountain side or carved out 442 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: from the mountain with soil that was then used to 443 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: fill in other areas for the road. Blasting was limited 444 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: and tightly controlled to minimize any scarring or destruction of 445 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: the landscape, and large trees were protected as much as possible. 446 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: Retaining walls, tunnels, and bridges were built from local stone, 447 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: and originally there were also guard rails made from local 448 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: chestnut logs. By the time this road building got underway, 449 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: it had been seven years since the Southern Appalachian National 450 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: Park Committee had made its recommendation for the establishment of 451 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: Shenandoah National Park. While there was plenty of controversy around 452 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: the park and the fundraising and the land acquisition, people 453 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: were also incredibly impatient for it to be open. An 454 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: unpaved portion of the road from Camp Rapidan was open 455 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: to the public temporarily in the fall of nineteen thirty two, 456 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: and while drivers did seem to enjoy the view, the 457 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: temporary opening made it clear how much work there really 458 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: was left to do. Not only did the road need 459 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: to be paved, but there needed to be overlooks, guardrails, 460 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: and other features and amenities added before it could be 461 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: really suitable as the scenic drive that it was intended 462 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: to be. Herbert Hoover lost the nineteen thirty two presidential election, 463 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: and his successor, Franklin D. Roosevelt, established the Civilian Conservation 464 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: Corps not long after taking office in nineteen thirty three. 465 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: This was part of the New Deal, the set of 466 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: projects and programs to try to help the United States 467 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: get through the Great Depression. The CCC was created through 468 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: the Emergency Conservation Work Act, which was legislation passed by 469 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: Congress as well as Executive Order sixty one oh one 470 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: Relief of unemployment through the performance of useful public work. 471 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: The Civilian Conservation Corps provided jobs for unemployed, unmarried young men, 472 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: and a lot of that work was related to parks 473 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: and natural resources. The CCC was racially segregated, and while 474 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: there were CCC camps for black workers elsewhere in Virginia, 475 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: the ones at Shenandoah were all white and most of 476 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,959 Speaker 1: the people working in them were from small towns in Virginia. Ultimately, 477 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: there were twelve CCC camps connected to Shenandoah National Park 478 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: and Skyline Drive. CCC workers built hiking trails and fire trails, 479 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: picnic areas, campgrounds, and other amenities in the park. They 480 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: also planted native trees and shrubs, and built overlooks and 481 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: guardrails along Skyline Drive. They graded the land around the road, 482 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: helping it to blend in naturally with the landscape, and 483 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: they helped restore land that had been overfarmed, again focusing 484 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: on native plants and trees. In some areas they cut 485 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: down trees and other vegetation to improve the view from 486 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: the road and from overlooks, but in others they replanted 487 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: areas that had been clearcut or otherwise depleted. There was 488 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: a focus on restoration of the native ecosystem, but also 489 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: about creating and maintaining of vieute that looked natural, maybe 490 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: not wild, and untouched in the way the national parks 491 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: in the West had been constructed but scenic and rustic. 492 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: Over the course of the Great Depression, about four thousand 493 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: people found work in Shenandoah National Park and on Skyline Drive. 494 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: The first finished section of Skyline Drive open to the 495 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: public in nineteen thirty four. This was the central part 496 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: of the parkway. The northern section opened in nineteen thirty six, 497 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: and the southern part in nineteen thirty nine, which was 498 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: after the park had opened. President Franklin D. Roosevelt formally 499 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: dedicated Shenandoah National Park on July third, nineteen thirty six, 500 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: at Big Meadows, which is one of the park's recreation areas. 501 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: In his address, he said, quote, the creation of this 502 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: park is one part of our great program of husbandry, 503 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: the joint husbandry of our human resources and our natural resources. 504 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: He spoke about the young men who had found work 505 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: in building the park and how the park was a 506 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: work of natural conservation that would give vacationers a respite 507 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: that was good for their souls. He concluded, quote, we 508 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: seek to pass on to our children a richer land, 509 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: a stronger nation. I therefore dedicate Shenandoah National Park to 510 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: this and succeeding generations of Americans for the recreation and 511 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: for the recreation which we shall find here. We are 512 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: bat thousand on the opposite person reading the thing that 513 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: made us cry. Hooray. I mean that was a close 514 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: call for me, but I made it okay. So the 515 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: park's struggles had not ended with the acquisition of the 516 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: necessary land like this address made it sound really lovely, 517 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: but there had still been a lot of strife. In 518 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,800 Speaker 1: February of nineteen thirty four, National Park Director Arno B. 519 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: Cameer had announced that anybody living in the park would 520 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: have to leave before the park could open. From the 521 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: federal government's point of view, this had always been the expectation, 522 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: like that was how it was supposed to work, but 523 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: that had not always been communicated very clearly, including to 524 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: people who were tenants on land that was being sold 525 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: to make the park. They were now being considered squatters. 526 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: A resettlement project called the Shenandoah Homesteads Project had been 527 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: established in nineteen thirty four and then was taken over 528 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: by the Resettlement Administration, which was a new deal anti 529 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: poverty program. This program was incredibly controversial, including among some 530 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: people who had been supporters of the park since the beginning. 531 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: For example, Harry F. Byrd, who had served as Virginia's 532 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: governor until nineteen thirty and then had been elected as 533 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: a US Senator, found it paternalistic and wasteful. The goal 534 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: of this program was to resettle people out of the 535 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: park and into newly established communities. People who earned a 536 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: living by farming were to be moved to similar homesteads, 537 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: and others were expected to find work in other industries. 538 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: But some of the people who were displaced by the 539 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: creation of the park had been getting at least part 540 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: of their income from gathering and selling chestnuts. The chestnut 541 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: blight that was introduced to the United States from Asia 542 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: reached this part of Virginia as the park was being built. 543 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: That dramatically affected the landscape of the park, and it 544 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: also destroyed chestnuts as a source of income. So that 545 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: meant that some of the people who were being resettled 546 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: were not only being displaced, but they also had to 547 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 1: figure out an entirely new way of life. Roughly two 548 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,479 Speaker 1: thousand people from four hundred and sixty five families were 549 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: forcibly relocated for the creation of Shenandoah National Park, and 550 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 1: most of them did not make it on the homesteads 551 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,240 Speaker 1: where they had been resettled, and they were ultimately displaced again. 552 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: There were a lot of reasons for this, including that 553 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: many of them went from living on land that their 554 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: family had owned outright for generations to land where they 555 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: had to pay rent or a mortgage. There were also 556 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 1: people who tried to return to their cabins after being 557 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: forced out of them, and others who tried to take 558 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: shelter in them due to the financial strains of the 559 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: Great Depression, The National Park Service eventually destroyed many of 560 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: these cabins to try to stop people from squatting in them. 561 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: A very small number of elderly people were allowed to 562 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: remain in their homes within the park until the end 563 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: of their lives or until they needed to move somewhere 564 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 1: that they could have more support. None of this was 565 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: really known to park visitors unless they were maybe locals, 566 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 1: and after Sanando A National Park officially opened in nineteen 567 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,760 Speaker 1: thirty six, it quickly became one of the most visited 568 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: national parks. It was the first national parks who get 569 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: a million visitors in a year. Skyline Drive had also 570 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: been instantly popular after its first section opened in nineteen 571 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: thirty four, and of course, there were black visitors to 572 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: the park and black motorists on Skyline Drive right from 573 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: the beginning. Perhaps surprisingly considering that this was a southern 574 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: state in the nineteen thirties, this doesn't seem like something 575 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,399 Speaker 1: that park planners or the federal government had really thought 576 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,919 Speaker 1: much about before the park opened. Yeah, if they thought 577 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: about it, they didn't like take action to make any 578 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: kind of official policy, and by nineteen thirty eight there 579 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,760 Speaker 1: were about ten thousand black visitors to Shenandoah National Park 580 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: every year, and there were also ongoing issues with black 581 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: visitors being given contradictory messages from park staff about where 582 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: they were allowed to be, what facilities they were allowed 583 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: to use, as well as being hassled by white staff 584 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: and visitors. So the National Park Service eventually established segregated 585 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: accommodations in the park at Lewis Mountain, including a coffee shop, 586 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: picnic area, campground, and cottages. These accommodations opened in nineteen 587 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: thirty nine, and soon they became so popular that white 588 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: visitors were asking to be admitted to them as well. 589 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,399 Speaker 1: Apparently this had some of the best food in the park, 590 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: and there was also a musical performance series that was 591 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: very popular. The Pinnacle's picnic ground was also established specifically 592 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: to be an integrated facility. There was no formal segregation 593 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: policy for the rest of the park, but it was 594 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: just broadly treated as whites only until the park started 595 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: desegregating in the late nineteen forties. It finished that process 596 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty, although to be clear, there are still 597 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: criticisms today about park visitors and staff, and the National 598 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: Park Service more broadly being disproportionately white. Today, Skyline Drive 599 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: runs for one hundred and five point five miles and 600 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: it's the only public road in Shenandoah National Park. In 601 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,240 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, it was listed on the National Register 602 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: of Historic Places. Shenandoah National Park encompasses nearly two hundred 603 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: thousand acres of land today when nearly eighty thousand acres 604 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: designated as wilderness. There are also more than five hundred 605 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,720 Speaker 1: miles of hiking trails, including one hundred and one miles 606 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: of the Appalachian Trail, which runs parallel to Skyline Drive. 607 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 1: There is an entry fee of fifteen dollars per person 608 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: entering on foot or thirty dollars for private vehicles entering 609 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: on Skyline Drive. Motorcycles are twenty five dollars. Shenando A 610 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 1: National Park which I haven't said this earlier because it's 611 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: going to be in the behind the scenes, but just 612 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,919 Speaker 1: in case people are wondering, it is an indigenous word, 613 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 1: but we're not actually sure from which language are what 614 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: specifically it meant. But shenando A National Park is also 615 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: connected to Great Smoky Mountains National Park via the Blue 616 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: Ridge Parkway, and that's what we're going to talk about 617 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: next time. Do you have listener mail? I do I 618 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: have listener mail. So this listener mail is from Kieran. 619 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: They titled this email Roman Baths and Butts. The email says, 620 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: Hello Tracy and Hilly. I hope this email finds you 621 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: as well as can possibly be. I just wanted to 622 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: write a quick note that I hope might bring you 623 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,839 Speaker 1: a little bit of a laugh. Like most people, I've 624 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,800 Speaker 1: been having a chaotic year and fell behind on my listening, 625 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 1: but just caught up and had to laugh at the 626 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: timing of the Roman bathing traditions mentioned in the unearthed 627 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 1: episodes Tasting History with Max Miller. Also just at a 628 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 1: recent episode on Roman banquets, this time specifically roasted flamingo 629 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: and quoted a few wonderfully spicy quips from the poet Marshall, 630 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: infamous for his copious writings about whether or not he 631 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: was invited to someone's dinner and his perceived quality of 632 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: their company. Marshall wrote two slash of one acquaintance quote, 633 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 1: you don't invite anyone to dinner, Katta except your bathing companions. 634 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,760 Speaker 1: The baths alone supply you with guests. I've been wondering 635 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 1: why you never invite me, Kada, but now I understand 636 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,400 Speaker 1: you don't like the site of my but clearly modern 637 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 1: humans are not the only ones to perhaps have some 638 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: misgivings about bathing and dining with all your work colleagues 639 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: and acquaintances. Lol. I have not yet read Marshall's copious epigrams, 640 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: but this episode made me want to put them on 641 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: my reading list. Anyway, Thank you to so much for 642 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: all that you do. I cannot express in words how 643 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: much I appreciate you both. I want to add my 644 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: name to the list of people thanking you, particularly for 645 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,840 Speaker 1: the unearthed episodes and especially their introduction. Thank you, thank you, 646 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,320 Speaker 1: thank you. I know this year has been a doozy 647 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: thus far, to say the least, so I hope that 648 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: people in your life bake you cupcakes or something else 649 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: nice soon as a treat for all of your hard work. 650 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: You deserve all the special treats. Thanks again and all 651 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: the best, Kieran. Thank you so much for this email. Kieran. 652 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: This was a delight, but I don't really have anything 653 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: else at that and I hope that Marshall is how 654 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,279 Speaker 1: Marshall's name was pronounced as an ancient Roman person. I 655 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: did not go look it up. If it's some other 656 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: pronunciation that pronounces letters differently, Sorry, Now I want Tina 657 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 1: Belcher to become obsessed with Roman butts, because you know 658 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:22,919 Speaker 1: she has a butt fetish. If you'd like to send 659 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,360 Speaker 1: us a note about this or any other podcast or 660 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: history podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com, and you can subscribe 661 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,239 Speaker 1: to our show on the iHeartRadio app and anywhere else 662 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: you'd like to get your podcasts. Stuff you missed in 663 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 664 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 665 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:50,720 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.