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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savior Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie

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Speaker 1: Res and I'm Lauren Bvogelbaum. And today we have a

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Speaker 1: special episode for you because we are interviewing Michelle Norris. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and it was such a lovely time. I still keep

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Speaker 1: going back to it.

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Speaker 2: What a good human.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and my mom is a huge fan and

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Speaker 1: we talked about my mom and here, So it was

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Speaker 1: a very lovely, delightful time. Oh.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Michelle is an absolute hero of a journalist of mine.

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Speaker 3: But a little bit of background here, Okay, So we

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Speaker 3: got this exciting email a while back because Michelle Norris

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Speaker 3: has started up this new podcast called Your Mama's Kitchen,

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Speaker 3: in which she talks with a range of familiar voices

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Speaker 3: about their family kitchen experiences and how that shaped who

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Speaker 3: they are today. Previously, Michelle was a correspondent for ABC

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Speaker 3: News in like the nineties and early two thousands, one

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Speaker 3: a Peabody for her coverage of nine to eleven, went

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Speaker 3: on to be the first black woman host at NPR

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Speaker 3: doing All Things Considered, and has been working since then

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Speaker 3: on a number of projects that are really passionately interrogative

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Speaker 3: of American experiences and American psychees and yeah, so we

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Speaker 3: got to digitally sit down with her to talk about

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Speaker 3: her new podcast and why this core question tell me

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Speaker 3: about your Mama's kitchen gets kind of everyone to open

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Speaker 3: up and talk about very serious issues in personal but

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Speaker 3: friendly ways. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I have to say, I asked myself this question and

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Speaker 1: I got a lot of answers I was not expecting,

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Speaker 1: and I recommend everybody do it. It's amazing what it reveals.

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Speaker 1: But all right, let us get in to the interview.

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Speaker 3: Our opening question to people is usually Hi, who are you?

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Speaker 3: Because A, we want to make sure that we get

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Speaker 3: the way that people say their name out loud on Mike.

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Speaker 3: We've got that down in your case. But also B

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Speaker 3: it's interesting to hear how people define themselves.

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Speaker 1: So, Hi, who are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm Michelle Norris. I am a storyteller and a story

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Speaker 2: collector in the storyteller category. I'm a longtime journalist. I

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Speaker 2: hosted a little show on NPR called All Things Considered

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Speaker 2: for about a decade. I've worked at the La Times

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Speaker 2: and the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Post twice early

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Speaker 2: in my life as a cub reporter and now as

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Speaker 2: a columnist. As a story collector. I host a show

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Speaker 2: called Your Mama's Kitchen where we talked to really interesting

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Speaker 2: people and learn a lot about them by learning about

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Speaker 2: the kitchens that they grew up in. I also run

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Speaker 2: something called the Race Card Project, where for fourteen years

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Speaker 2: I've asked people to tell me about their thoughts, memories,

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Speaker 2: triumphs laments perspectives on race and identity in just six words.

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Speaker 3: So you're usually talking with other people about them.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk a little bit about you?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 1: Oh that's good. It would have been awkward if you'd

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Speaker 1: said no. So right.

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Speaker 3: People know you as a journalist, but food journalism isn't

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Speaker 3: particularly your background. However, you were already interested in food

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Speaker 3: and cooking before you started this podcast, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And you know, in the years that I

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Speaker 2: hosted and in PR, I always tried to find reasons

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Speaker 2: to talk about food on the air. During the holidays,

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Speaker 2: it was natural, you know. We did a series of

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Speaker 2: segment with Dory Greenspan and used her as a way

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Speaker 2: to help listeners explore their own kitchens, but also tried

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Speaker 2: to find something thematic that we could talk to. But

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Speaker 2: I just I love to cook and I love to

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Speaker 2: be in the kitchen. And I do think that there

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Speaker 2: are times when we can tell stories through food. So

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Speaker 2: during Katrina, you know, when we're talking about what was lost,

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Speaker 2: culinary memories were lost, social capital that was built around memories,

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Speaker 2: but also kitchens. You know, the people who worked in

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Speaker 2: the Lower ninth Ward who could send their child up

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Speaker 2: the street to Miss Louise's house because she would always

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Speaker 2: be able to get them breakfast because their mama worked

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Speaker 2: the early shift, and they could go to someone else's

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Speaker 2: house and get breakfast in the morning before going off

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Speaker 2: to school. Stuff like that was a way to tell

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Speaker 2: a story. I remember in Katrina. One of the stories

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Speaker 2: we talked about was I was there with Andrea Shue

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Speaker 2: for several weeks after the flood, and I remember that

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Speaker 2: there were people who were heating up a can of

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Speaker 2: vegetables in the sun on the pavement and they just

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Speaker 2: kept moving it, you know, and they'd been eating cold

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Speaker 2: stuff out of a can and they were just and

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Speaker 2: it didn't seem you know, particularly safe for healthy necessarily,

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Speaker 2: but you know, nothing was safeer healthy and the once,

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Speaker 2: you know, after Katrina, so I have tried to find ways,

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Speaker 2: whether when I was covering education talking about school lunches.

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Speaker 2: Whether I was working at the La Times. One of

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Speaker 2: the first stories I did as a very young reporter

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Speaker 2: was on what we now call food deserts, but how

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Speaker 2: in certain parts of the city you could not find

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Speaker 2: a tomato. So you know, I haven't been a food

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Speaker 2: journalist quotation marks, but I've been trying to find ways

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Speaker 2: to tell stories through food.

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Speaker 1: And the way that you did, the inspiration you had

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Speaker 1: for this podcast was as people who are in audio.

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Speaker 1: When I heard this story, I was like, Yes, that

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Speaker 1: makes so much sense. Can you tell that story for

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Speaker 1: our listening?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 2: Sure, So those of us who were in audio have

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Speaker 2: to get levels from the people that we talked to, right,

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Speaker 2: And because I have such a low voice, the engineers

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Speaker 2: at MPI state I had a lot of smoke in

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Speaker 2: my voice that they have to really ride the level

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Speaker 2: because I'm also a little bit of a low talker,

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Speaker 2: and so they'd need someone to talk long enough to

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Speaker 2: match the levels. And the standard question that people ask.

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Speaker 1: Is what do you have for breakfast?

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Speaker 2: Everyone asked that question what do you have for breakfast?

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Speaker 2: And most people don't have big breakfasts. They mean they

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Speaker 2: say toast, they say coffee, they say oatmeal, They often

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Speaker 2: just say nothing, you know, I had nothing and breakfast,

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Speaker 2: you know nothing, And so I needed, you know, the

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Speaker 2: person who had avocado toast with watermelon relish and chili

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Speaker 2: flakes and a little drill. I never found that person, right,

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Speaker 2: I always had the person who said nothing, or coffee

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Speaker 2: or latte or something very short. And so I started

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Speaker 2: to ask a series of other questions. Tell me about

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Speaker 2: your first summer job. Do you use paper or plastic

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Speaker 2: when you go to the grocery store? What was your

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Speaker 2: first summer job, what was your what did a Saturday

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Speaker 2: night like? What did you do for fun on a

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Speaker 2: Saturday night? What was a Saturday evening like wherever you

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Speaker 2: grew up? Or tell me about your mama's kitchen. And

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Speaker 2: over time, the one question that worked every single time,

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Speaker 2: not just to get the level but to render the conversation,

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Speaker 2: but to like loosen people up, was tell me about

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Speaker 2: your mama's kitchen. Because you'd see it. Their eyes would

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Speaker 2: just go, oh wow, yeah, my mama's kitchen. And then

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Speaker 2: they'd start talking. And then they start talking so much

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Speaker 2: that we'd have to pull them back to whatever it

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Speaker 2: is that we were actually bringing them in to talk about.

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Speaker 2: And so for years I had nursed this idea that

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Speaker 2: would be a great podcast is to just begin every conversation.

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Speaker 2: In the beginning, I thought it would be interesting to

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Speaker 2: talk primarily to because at the time I was working

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Speaker 2: in news, I thought newsmakers, So, you know, to talk

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Speaker 2: to the head of a country, the head of an

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Speaker 2: organization and go, you know, that's usually talking about policy

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Speaker 2: and feeding people and land reform or something like that,

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Speaker 2: to kind of loosen it up. And then when we

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Speaker 2: actually created the podcast, we you know, took a more

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Speaker 2: what you might say, commercial route by talking to fairly

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Speaker 2: famous people who do all kinds of things. I still

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Speaker 2: would love to every so often talk to someone you

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Speaker 2: know in the policy world, you know, whoever is the

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Speaker 2: equivalent of Oppenheimer today, tell me about your mama's kitchen.

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Speaker 2: I still think would be fantastically interesting. But the thing is,

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Speaker 2: the question works on anybody, and we ask some version

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Speaker 2: of that question that's asked in a slightly different way

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Speaker 2: just so we don't get redundant, but the basic question

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Speaker 2: is the same. Let's hear about your mama's kitchen, and

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Speaker 2: that question leads to completely different journeys, you know, depending

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Speaker 2: on who we're talking.

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Speaker 3: To oh, yeah, we of course we love this question.

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Speaker 3: You know, we love anything even vaguely surrounding food. But

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Speaker 3: it also really struck me because one of the one

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Speaker 3: of the questions we've asked chefs and restauranteurs is what

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Speaker 3: did you eat when you were growing up? It's actually

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Speaker 3: made some of them kind of defensive, you know, like

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Speaker 3: we've been having this small conversation about their professional lives,

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Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden they kind of clamp

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Speaker 3: up and go like, oh, you know, like we didn't

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Speaker 3: have a lot of money growing up, my parents were busy.

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Speaker 3: But that response in itself speaks so much to how

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Speaker 3: conversations around home kitchens are about a lot more than food,

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Speaker 3: which is really the point of your show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. The theory of the case is that we

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Speaker 2: become who we become as adults in part because, in

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Speaker 2: large part and very large part, because of what we saw, witnessed, absorbed,

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Speaker 2: and took in while in the kitchen. And it's not

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Speaker 2: just about the food that was served up. Because I believe,

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Speaker 2: and I firmly believe now after during forty episodes, that

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Speaker 2: we learn about generosity in the kitchen, we learn about

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Speaker 2: justice in the kitchen, we learn about philanthropy, we learn

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Speaker 2: about grace, we learn about retribution and fairness. The kitchen

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Speaker 2: is where the bills pile up. The kitchen is where

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Speaker 2: the loudest arguments happen. The kitchen is where the world

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Speaker 2: comes in in a way that we debate it and

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Speaker 2: examine it, whether it's from the radio on the window

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Speaker 2: seal or the TV that many of us have in

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Speaker 2: the kitchen, or just the debates and the conversations that

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Speaker 2: we have about the stuff that's happening in the outside world.

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Speaker 2: It's where you learn about feminism, even if you weren't

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Speaker 2: studying feminism, because you realize, you know, gender roles are

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Speaker 2: so prevalent in the kitchen. It's where a lot of

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Speaker 2: people figure out how to become American or how to

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Speaker 2: hold on to that little piece of themselves that they

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Speaker 2: let go of when they go out in the world

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Speaker 2: and they're trying to be American. But when they come

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Speaker 2: back home, this is where they get to be Latvian,

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Speaker 2: and this is where they get to enjoy Nigerian food,

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Speaker 2: and this is where they get to still speak Italian

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Speaker 2: or Cuban accented English, you know, whereas when they go

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Speaker 2: off to work. They're trying to be American code switch. Yes, yes, codes.

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Speaker 2: We call it code switching now, but it's been going on,

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Speaker 2: you know, since the beginning of time. So it's this

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Speaker 2: just wonderful, yeasty portal, you know, to understand people. And

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Speaker 2: we've talked to fairly famous people, you know, Sheall Obama,

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Speaker 2: Connor O'Brien, Matthew McConaughey, I mean knows that. And in

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Speaker 2: every case, even though these are people who have had

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Speaker 2: their own TV shows, written several books, you know, been

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Speaker 2: on the cover of People magazine, they say something to

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Speaker 2: us that they've never said to anyone before. And I

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Speaker 2: am humble enough to know that that's not just my

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Speaker 2: skills as an interviewer. That is really because we're asking

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Speaker 2: a different question. We're allowing them to talk about something

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Speaker 2: that they haven't talked about before.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. And I think you have touched on so much

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Speaker 1: that we want to come back to. But one of

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Speaker 1: the things I believe people a mistake people make is

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Speaker 1: that when they think about food on just a day

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Speaker 1: to day level is that they divorce it from these

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Speaker 1: deeper themes of politics of class history, race, gender, when

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Speaker 1: that couldn't be further from the case, and it's clear

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Speaker 1: just based on if someone thinks about it for a second,

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Speaker 1: they're telling a story they've never told before. Have these

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Speaker 1: conversations that you've had brought some of those themes to

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Speaker 1: light on the show?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. I talked to Michelle

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Speaker 2: Obama just first. You know, the show is with higher

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Speaker 2: Ground production, so it made sense that Michelle Obama would

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Speaker 2: be the first the first guest. She's a dear friend

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Speaker 2: of mine and we talk all the time. So I

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Speaker 2: learned a lot about her. The world has learned a

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Speaker 2: lot about her because she's written two books, and she's

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Speaker 2: been on you know, Jimmy Fallon how many times and

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Speaker 2: you know, name the show, she's been on it a

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Speaker 2: few times. However, when we sat down and started talking

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Speaker 2: about missus Robinson's kitchen, her mama's kitchen, there is new

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Speaker 2: stuff that came out that she hadn't talked about before.

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Speaker 2: You know, one of her cousins who came home with

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Speaker 2: these feminist ideas, and how everybody else in the family

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Speaker 2: is like, well, wait, what what's going on? You know here,

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Speaker 2: and a young Michelle Obama was watching that, you know

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Speaker 2: and learning, you know, from that She talked about having

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Speaker 2: to have her hair tamed, you know, to go out

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Speaker 2: in the world, and you know what that does to

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Speaker 2: your concept of fitting in and what it means to

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Speaker 2: be beautiful on someone else's standards. When we talked to

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Speaker 2: Matthew McConaughey, he talked about the woman who cooked for

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Speaker 2: his family, who was a black woman and who was

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Speaker 2: his closest confidant and how he kept in touch with

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Speaker 2: her throughout life and as a young actor, she was

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Speaker 2: the one who could tell when he was what would

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Speaker 2: you call it in the cut as an actor, like

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Speaker 2: she knew when he told this great story about how

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Speaker 2: he did something and he put a hat away as

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Speaker 2: an actor, and she said, I knew you were totally

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Speaker 2: in character because you would never put a hat away.

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Speaker 2: And we learned that he kept in touch with her

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Speaker 2: all her life and has kept in touch with her kids,

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Speaker 2: and you know, and so it was it was really interesting.

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Speaker 2: We talked to Matthew and Matthew McConaughey and Camilla Alves.

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Speaker 2: McConaughey loved, loved talking to the two of them. And

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Speaker 2: she's from Brazil and she's known as a model, that's

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Speaker 2: what people know her. As and as Matthew mcconnie's wife.

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Speaker 2: She's so much more than that. You're probably familiar with

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Speaker 2: her own food vertical that she runs, but she's a

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Speaker 2: country girl. She comes from a farm in Brazil, and

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Speaker 2: she talked about in her family, normally the farm hands,

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Speaker 2: the people who work the land eat over there in

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Speaker 2: the distance, and in her family, they invited them to

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Speaker 2: eat at one big, long table, and so the people

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Speaker 2: who own the farm and the people who work the

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Speaker 2: farm all ate together without the kind of class divisions

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Speaker 2: that you normally see in a situation like that. And

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Speaker 2: that told me so much about her compass, you know,

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Speaker 2: the compass that was set in her heart and in

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Speaker 2: her psyche very early in life. Learned so much about

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Speaker 2: her in her view of the world. And so, you know,

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Speaker 2: these are the kind of stories that that we surface.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you one last one about Conan O'Brien. You know,

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Speaker 2: I run this other thing called the Race Car Project.

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Speaker 2: And it's interesting because your mama's kitchen was going to

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Speaker 2: be the part of my life where I'm not talking

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Speaker 2: about race and identity, and yet and yet, good luck,

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Speaker 2: yeah yeah, and yet identity is formed in the kitchen

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Speaker 2: in part and so so many of these conversations. It's

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Speaker 2: like these two projects are in conversation with each other.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it turns out tell me about your mama's

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Speaker 2: kitchen is like a six word you know. I didn't

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Speaker 2: even realize that until recently. I was in San Antonio,

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Speaker 2: said you know, six word question. I was like, oh

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Speaker 2: my goodness, and blow hoops. But when I talked to

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Speaker 2: Conan O'Brien didn't expect the conversation to hinge on identity.

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Speaker 2: The white guy read here, you know, just wasn't expecting that.

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Speaker 2: But he told this great story about his mom, who

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Speaker 2: was one of the first women to graduate from law

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Speaker 2: school at Yale. Comes from middle class family. I believe

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Speaker 2: it was Worcester. She wound up going to I think

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Speaker 2: it was faster. I'm getting old and I'm not remembering

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Speaker 2: everything exactly right. But then went on to DL thank you,

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Speaker 2: thank you, back checking this, but they elbre do remember.

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Speaker 2: And she graduated, and then she went to a white

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Speaker 2: shoe law firm in Boston, fancy law firm in Boston,

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Speaker 2: one of the only women there, one of the first

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Speaker 2: women there. And when they had meetings with clients in

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Speaker 2: the Big Wood paneled boardroom that you can picture, you know, right,

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Speaker 2: like the kind like the guys from trading places, you know,

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Speaker 2: the big like mahogany walls and leather seats. Because she

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Speaker 2: was a woman, and probably because she was an Irish woman,

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Speaker 2: they made her sit at a coffee excuse me, at

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Speaker 2: a card table. They made her set at a card

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Speaker 2: table outside the door.

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Speaker 3: They put her at a kiddy table.

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Speaker 2: They put her kit in the room. They not even

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Speaker 2: in the room, and they said, but they wanted her

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Speaker 2: close by because she was so smart that if they

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Speaker 2: had to ask her a question. They didn't say stay downstairs.

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Speaker 2: They said, says, we might have something to ask, but

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Speaker 2: you can't come in the room because we don't want

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Speaker 2: the clients to see you because they may not be

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Speaker 2: ready for that. And he told that story, and I

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Speaker 2: you know again something about his compass right because he

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Speaker 2: watched his mom go through that stick, through that rise up,

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Speaker 2: through the firm, earn respect, hold respect, change the firm

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Speaker 2: from the inside. And he took those lessons and that's

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Speaker 2: part of who he is. That's part of Conan's DNA,

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Speaker 2: and it explains, you know, as you get to know him,

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Speaker 2: the way he builds a staff, the sort of little

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Speaker 2: love notes he sends to people. The kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: stand up guy that he is is in part from

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Speaker 2: watching what his mom went through. And one of the

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Speaker 2: lessons that I take from it that I really think

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Speaker 2: hard about for the young people that I'm trying to raise,

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Speaker 2: the young adults that I've sent into the world. The

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Speaker 2: thing that I remember about that story is there are

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Speaker 2: a couple of guys in the room that were lawyers

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Speaker 2: who said, you know, I'm good, I'm going to go

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Speaker 2: eat my tunea fish sandwich outside with her. I'm going

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Speaker 2: to go sit at the table with her. And I thought,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's the young That's the person I want

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Speaker 2: to raise, right, I want to raise the person who's righteous,

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Speaker 2: who says I don't need to be close to power.

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Speaker 2: If this is what power does you know? I'm I

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Speaker 2: would rather be out there with.

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Speaker 1: Her, absolutely, And that relates to something else that you've

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Speaker 1: spoken about. Is one theme, one thread you've picked up

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Speaker 1: on a lot in these conversations, as people kind of say, oh,

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Speaker 1: I didn't think my mother enough or I didn't think

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Speaker 1: about this enough, or something like that. And you've also

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Speaker 1: spoken about how you worried about gendering this space, but

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Speaker 1: that ultimately with the title, but that ultimately it's largely

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Speaker 1: women who are still doing this work. For most of us,

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Speaker 1: it has been a gendered space. So you went with

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Speaker 1: the title your Mama's Kitchen. Can you talk about that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I was worried about that because you know,

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Speaker 2: it seems to just double down on the idea that

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Speaker 2: cooking is women's work. And I was a little bit

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Speaker 2: worried about that. But I understood that if you wanted

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Speaker 2: to if you wanted to get someone's origin story, and

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Speaker 2: you wanted to do it in the kitchen, women were

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Speaker 2: doing most of cooking, so you know, and frankly, your

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Speaker 2: mama's kitchen sounds better than your mama and daddy's kitchen,

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Speaker 2: you know, mamminem's kitchen or something like that. So so,

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Speaker 2: you know, we decided to just go with it and

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Speaker 2: let the story take it where it takes us. And

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Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that men are not present in the kitchen.

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Speaker 2: We also learn about learn about men. In some cases,

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Speaker 2: they are the primary cooks. That was the case with

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Speaker 2: Matthew Broderick, that was a case with Leslie Jones. Their

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Speaker 2: you know, their fathers come into the story. You also

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Speaker 2: learn about men who cook when fire is involved. So

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of people who we talk to

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Speaker 2: who talk about dad barbecued, and you know, Jeff Tweety

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Speaker 2: told a great story about his dad. It was basically

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Speaker 2: a chance for him to hold court. Like he wasn't

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Speaker 2: even paying attention to the barbecue. The pork steakes were

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Speaker 2: always overcooked, but it was a chance room to be

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Speaker 2: outside and you know, drink beers with his buddies. So

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Speaker 2: it that that kind of you know, comes into play.

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Speaker 2: But it's basically holding a mirror up and capturing what

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Speaker 2: you see. And what you see when you hold a

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Speaker 2: mirrorp and you're looking backwards in your life is in

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Speaker 2: most cases women are doing the cooking. But it's also

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Speaker 2: where you learn about how women maybe we're taking a

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Speaker 2: space and turning it into a realm of their own.

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Speaker 2: It was the one place maybe where they had full control.

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Speaker 2: It was the one place where they could grow a

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Speaker 2: business on the side by baking cakes for somebody else

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Speaker 2: or creating a world of respect around what they sent

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Speaker 2: out of the kitchen. It was a place where they

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Speaker 2: could teach their kids in ways that the lessons wouldn't

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Speaker 2: take in the dining room or in the rec room

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Speaker 2: or in any other room. And it was a place

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Speaker 2: also we are learning where men earn the money, but

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Speaker 2: women controlled it. And we're learning that over and over

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Speaker 2: and over and over and over again, where you know,

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Speaker 2: the paycheck would come home, there would be some passing

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Speaker 2: of the baton, and it was women who actually sat

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Speaker 2: down and did the family budget and went through the

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Speaker 2: you know, before we had apps that did everything for us,

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Speaker 2: went through that ledge and added everything up and figured

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Speaker 2: out how to save money, how to grow money, how

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Speaker 2: to put a little bit of money aside, how to

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Speaker 2: maybe squirrel away a little something for themselves. And those

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Speaker 2: are aspects of family life that maybe you read inside

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Speaker 2: novels or you get if you know, really are the

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Speaker 2: one person in your family that sits down and talks

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Speaker 2: to people at the family gathering. But I love, I

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Speaker 2: love pulling out those little tendrils of American life because

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Speaker 2: they're so present in so many of our lives. But

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Speaker 2: they're the kinds of things that we don't talk about.

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Speaker 2: And when we think about saying thanks Mom, it's usually,

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Speaker 2: you know, we think about the food, the cupcakes, the

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Speaker 2: big holiday dinners. But there's a lot of stuff that

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Speaker 2: mom was doing, you know, often from that kitchen table,

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Speaker 2: the command center, you know, to hold it all together.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot more of our conversation with Michelle,

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Speaker 1: but first we have a quick break for a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Let's

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Speaker 1: get back into it. Another thing you you've spoken about

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Speaker 1: that really related to me because we've talked before. It

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Speaker 1: can be isolating when you're in the kitchen, especially before

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Speaker 1: I don't know the internet, and you were listening to

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Speaker 1: the radio. My mom and I used to listen to

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Speaker 1: MPR when we would cook, and so one thing I

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Speaker 1: picked up on listening to your episode, the one thing

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Speaker 1: we've heard before. It's kind of this cook Some cookbooks

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Speaker 1: or some show will pop up a lot and it

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Speaker 1: being important, like you've got your Julia Child cookbook and

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Speaker 1: it just meant so much, or your joy of cooking

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Speaker 1: cookbook and it just meant so much as that something

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Speaker 1: that you have seen through doing.

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Speaker 2: This Julia Child, Julia Child, it's like we have if

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Speaker 2: it was a drinking game, we would you know, we'd

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Speaker 2: be in trouble. I mean, she comes up over and

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Speaker 2: over and over again. I mean she was she was

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Speaker 2: the one that women of a certain generation were watching

433
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: and deciding to be adventurous, you know, and deciding. I

434
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 2: mean we talked to Hary Condobolo, her mom. His mom

435
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 2: is from India, and she was, you know, experimenting with

436
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: American food, and Julia Child was the one who was

437
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 2: her guide and who kind of I think she gave

438
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 2: women permission yeah, you know, to do that, and she wasn't. Yeah,

439
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 2: And what do you think it was about her? Was

440
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: it that she was approachable?

441
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 3: I think it was a combination of both approachable and

442
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 3: also so confident. Even even if she wasn't sure what

443
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 3: she was doing, she was doing it confidently. And I

444
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,479
Speaker 3: loved watching video of her because just the way that

445
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 3: she moves, she moves so decisively, and she's she's not

446
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 3: she's not delicate, like she can she can be delicate

447
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 3: in the way that she puts a dish together, but

448
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 3: she's she's this kind of big, powerful lady the right right,

449
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 3: She's the brand of Tarth of the Kitchen, and it's wonderful.

450
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 3: And I'm just like, yeah, like I want to do that,

451
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 3: Like I want to absolutely scatch pocket ship.

452
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 2: Like let's know, I think that's I think there's something

453
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 2: too that. I mean, I realized, you know, my own

454
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: mom was a Julia Child acolyte. We you know, they

455
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,479
Speaker 2: love them some public radio. My parents and it's in

456
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 2: the water. I grew up in Minnesota and uh my mother,

457
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 2: you know, African American woman, tall, sturdy herself, Uh you know,

458
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 2: had Julia Child cookbook, had SIMCA's kitchen, which I still

459
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 2: have upstairs in my house. Simka was one of her friends,

460
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 2: and that's how invested she was buying, not just the

461
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 2: Julia Child cookbooks, but the like ancillary stuff, the offshoots. Yeah,

462
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: the off shoots. And when we did we wouldn't call

463
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: it a kitchen renovation because I grew up in a

464
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: working class family, but we did do a refresh. At

465
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: one point before my parents got divorced, my mom upgraded

466
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 2: the kitchen and she chose this wallpaper that was kind

467
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: of like French provincial. I mean, I think I think

468
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 2: she really was going for a certain look. And we

469
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: had these beams put across the ceiling in the kitchen,

470
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 2: and our kitchen was not you know, there was nothing

471
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 2: about our kitchen that said French country. I mean nothing

472
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 2: but she figured out how to get and they were

473
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 2: and this is the thing. They were like foam, but

474
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 2: they looked like would they She got him at like

475
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 2: for your listeners who live in the Midwest, at Menards,

476
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 2: I think, which is, you know, a home improvement store.

477
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 2: And she got some glue and slapped those things on

478
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 2: the ceiling and it just with the wallpaper and just

479
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 2: gave the you know, and then and got the copper.

480
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: We didn't have copper pots, but we had copper uh

481
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,959
Speaker 2: gello molds, gelatin molds. Yeah, and put those up on

482
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: the and you know, and tricked her kitchen out so

483
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: that it had this kind of save, a kind of

484
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: you know, quality to it. And it not until I

485
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: have started doing you know, all these podcasts and listening

486
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: to Julia Child's name come up over and over again

487
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 2: and I really kind of put that together. Oh wow,

488
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 2: Mom was Mom was really influenced by her in a

489
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: very strong way. And now I want to put some

490
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: I want to put some beams up across my kitchen.

491
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 3: I do I I do have some something old copper

492
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 3: jello molds from my grandmother that yeah, I really need

493
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: to really need to incorporate into the core.

494
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 2: And they all did everybody have a fish. It was

495
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 2: like the circular fish, you know what I'm talking about,

496
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: the fish that was like in a crescent shape.

497
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of swimming in its own tiny world.

498
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can.

499
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,959
Speaker 3: I ask you how you find the process and the

500
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 3: feel of podcasting as opposed to radio or TV. Is

501
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 3: it different for you or.

502
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 2: Yes? But I'm glad I've done both those things to

503
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: prepare me for podcasting.

504
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 3: Oh huh.

505
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: I learned as a longtime host where we had to

506
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: consider a whole lot of things before four pm every day,

507
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 2: which is an early deadline in journalism. Most people are

508
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 2: not putting their work to bed until about six or

509
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: six thirty. That you can throw almost anything at me

510
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: and I will figure out how to have a conversation

511
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 2: about it, you know. So I'm glad I have that

512
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: deep inside me and that I can turn something around quickly.

513
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: I'm glad that I worked in television because I understand

514
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 2: what lights do and what you know. We don't do

515
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that is recorded for now that

516
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: may change, but I also understand how to neutralize that,

517
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: you know, so that people aren't playing to the camera,

518
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 2: aren't aren't freaked out by the camera or kind of

519
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 2: forget about the camera. But I like I liked the

520
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: intimacy of radio, and I love the deeper intimacy of

521
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: podcasting that it is more free form, that it's not

522
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: as carefully scripted, and that people can come as they are.

523
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: I've talked about this before, so you may have heard

524
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: the story. But I'm someone who had a bit of

525
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: a speech impediment as a kid. I struggle with pronouncing

526
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: certain words. I will stump more than most people. I

527
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 2: just kind of work it into the way that I talk,

528
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: and I talk with my hands all the time because

529
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: that helps me process. I mean, there's just all kinds

530
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: of things that I do that help me, you know,

531
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 2: the brain mouth processing. In a formal setting like public radio,

532
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: where we are expected to have a certain pristine sound,

533
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: that could be problematic. And so my fixed file was

534
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: just thicker than everybody else's. And the story that I tell,

535
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: because it's true, is that if you listened in the

536
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 2: second or the third feed, meaning in central time, or

537
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: on Mountain Art or on the left coast, on the

538
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: West coast, we were perfect. Because every every time you

539
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: mispronounced proves Misharaff's name. Every time you mispronounce the name

540
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: of a Chinese village that experienced, you know, the after

541
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: effects of the earthquake, and do you know, you got

542
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: a chance to go and have another take at it,

543
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: and then it was perfect by the time it reached

544
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 2: the audience on the western part of the country. In podcasting,

545
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: you don't do as much of that. And I think

546
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 2: that that's why people actually love podcasts, is because you

547
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: hear the imperfections and it sounds like the conversation you're

548
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 2: at dinner. It sounds like the conversation you overhear at

549
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 2: the grocery store. It sounds like America, and it's less

550
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 2: varnished and less less less polished, And for the interviewer

551
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: there's some comfort in that. But I think for the interviewee,

552
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: it's sort of a come as you are, come in

553
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: your pajamas. You know, don't have to button up, don't

554
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,239
Speaker 2: have to code switch, don't have to figure out, you know,

555
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: your radio voice, don't have to figure out how you

556
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: sound professorial. You just you know, tell the story that

557
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 2: feels right to you in the moment. And the other

558
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 2: thing that I like, and I really appreciate about podcasting

559
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 2: is the emotional that you get in a podcast. So

560
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: if people are feeling like they just have to sniffle

561
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: or just you know, blow their nose because they're feeling emotional,

562
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 2: or they feel like they're you know, you hear you

563
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: hear laughter, that sends the needle into the red in

564
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 2: a podcast in a way that you don't in other

565
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: forms where people get giggly and silly and you hear

566
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: the UM's and the os and but that's the way

567
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,239
Speaker 2: people talk. And so I have a respect and an

568
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: appreciation for this. And the last thing I'll say about

569
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: podcasting that I that I actually dig is that the

570
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 2: barrier to entry is lower. So there are a lot

571
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: of voices that we hear that wouldn't be in the

572
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 2: marketplace because normally there'd be someone in a suit deciding yes, no,

573
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: you know, be annoyed you, and we don't annoy you.

574
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: And in this case, if you have a microphone and

575
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 2: you can get yourself on riverside or squad cast or

576
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 2: you know, one of these places, and you can just

577
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 2: send your voice out there into the world and find

578
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: an audience, that's really that's righteous. I like that it is.

579
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Yeah, that's that's the thing that we love

580
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 3: about the space too. I mean perhaps obviously from you know,

581
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 3: from from looking at us like in our like weird,

582
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 3: little cubby hole closet kind of situations. But right it's

583
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: a it can it can be so at ease, and

584
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 3: and that really brings out terrific conversations with people. Ah,

585
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: with with everything else you've got going on though, Why

586
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 3: this podcast?

587
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: Like why right now?

588
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: Well, in part because I found the right partners and

589
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: when it's right, it's right on time. And in part

590
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: because I think we needed this, you know, I felt

591
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 2: I needed it coming out of COVID, coming out of

592
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 2: the period following not just the murder of George Floyd,

593
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: but the daisy chain of you know, black death on

594
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 2: small screens that we had seen and reacted to with

595
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: horror and pathos. I just felt like we were really

596
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: as a country, as a world going through it, and

597
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: it felt like I could do something that allowed people

598
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: to experience something that was deep and rich and yes, emotional,

599
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: but not rooted in anger and not rooted in kind

600
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 2: of a finger wagging I'm right and you're wrong. You know,

601
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 2: much of what I do as a journalist at this

602
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 2: point in my life, through Your Mama's Kitchen and through

603
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: the work that I do at the Race Card Project.

604
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 2: In the book I wrote Our Hidden Conversations is to

605
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: try to do one of two things. To allow people

606
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: who don't always hear their stories or see their stories

607
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 2: in the marketplace, the communications marketplace, that they don't see

608
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 2: or hear themselves. So I try to provide a pathway

609
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: for those stories so that they can hear and see themselves.

610
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I'm trying to also allow

611
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: people to peer over the fence and look at life

612
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 2: as lived by somebody else. And I feel like this

613
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: podcast does both things. So we have explored so many

614
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 2: different cultures in this podcast and I have learned so much.

615
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 2: I just we have an upcoming episode with Zaragard, who

616
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 2: is so funny, but at the same time, you know,

617
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 2: taught me a lot about the expectations around arranged marriage

618
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 2: and you know how she had to navigate that in

619
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 2: her life and run away from it. And it wound

620
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 2: up being a history lesson and a conversation about food

621
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 2: and of course Our Mama's Kitchen. George Takai the same thing.

622
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: You know, he grew up in an internament camp. That

623
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: was you could use that episode in a seventh grade

624
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: Civics class, you know, to teach young children about what

625
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: happened to young children in America when America lost its

626
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 2: way and sent people away to so called in tournament camps.

627
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 2: So we're we're providing this way for this little nugget

628
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 2: of time where people can learn about someone else and

629
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: at the same time, maybe, oh, wow, she's telling my story.

630
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: He's was he inside my Mama's kitchen? Because we did

631
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: that too. And I think in a world where we

632
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 2: are so increasingly siloed and in these kind of cultural fiefdoms,

633
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 2: that we don't have a lot of opportunity to see

634
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,479
Speaker 2: other worlds. And I hope that that's what we're able

635
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 2: to do with Your Mama's Kitchen. And that's certainly what

636
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 2: we've tried to do with season one, and it's what

637
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 2: we hope to do with season two is to continue

638
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: this and you know, to see the full spectrum of

639
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 2: America through the kitchens of our youth.

640
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: And that really relates to something a question I had

641
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: because something I found really interesting about a lot of

642
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: your work is because is that it relates. It's these

643
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: things that we talk about or don't talk about, or

644
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: think about, don't think about. But we're not having these

645
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: conversations with the people we love or the people in

646
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: our lives. We're going to Google or we're going to

647
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: podcast instead. But it's clear, based on like everything you've done,

648
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: people do want to talk about this. Why do you

649
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: think that food is proving to be such a good

650
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: entry point for these tougher conversations.

651
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 2: Well, it's one thing we all have in common. We

652
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: don't eat the same thing, but we all eat, and

653
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 2: the kitchen is something that we all have in common.

654
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: And so whether yours was a tricked out kitchen that

655
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: had you know, double a mana oven, or had a

656
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: double refrigerator, or whether you had multiple refrigerators because you know,

657
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: we just talked to Eric Kim and his mom had

658
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 2: secret refrigerators and multiple refrigerators in the garage because she

659
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: was making Kim cheat. So you know, in a Korean household,

660
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 2: that's common that there are all kinds of refrigerators. In Minnesota,

661
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 2: people have extra freezers because all the fish that they

662
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 2: catch in the winter, you know, So you may not

663
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 2: have the kitchen may not be the same, but everybody

664
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: has a place to eat, even if it is a

665
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 2: pot over a stack of wood logs, you know, and

666
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: that's where you cook. It's your kitchen. It's where you

667
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: are cooking food. But often we're also people are saying

668
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 2: I love you through food. It's often where people are

669
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 2: doing a favor for someone else through food. And those

670
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 2: are the things that we all have in common. And

671
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 2: so I think that that is one of the reasons

672
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 2: that maybe people gravitate to these stories because there's a curiosity, well,

673
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 2: how did they do it? You know, what was Sunday

674
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 2: supper like for them? How did they celebrate the holidays?

675
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 2: But they call it comfort food for a reason, also

676
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 2: because food is comforting to us food memories. If you

677
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 2: start talking about food, if I start going in on something,

678
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 2: you will start to smell it, and if I'm really

679
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 2: good at the way I describe it, you might even

680
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,720
Speaker 2: start to taste it. An hour later, you might wonder,

681
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: do I smell fried fish in my shirt? And you didn't,

682
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: You were nowhere near fried fish. But because we had

683
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 2: a conversation about it, you can smell that kind of waey,

684
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 2: that little hint of corn meal, and it just sort

685
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 2: of feels like am I smelling it in my hair?

686
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: You know, food is just that evocative, and I don't

687
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: think we use it enough. It's why, when you know

688
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 2: diplomacy really important, diplomacy happens over food. It's why you

689
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 2: go someplaces they throw bread and salt. It's you know,

690
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 2: it's it is potent, and I wish we could use

691
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 2: it more often. I mean, in my other work at

692
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 2: the Race Card Project, we use food to bring people together.

693
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 2: We just did a contest around food where we asked

694
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: book clubs around the country to explain to us why

695
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: you wanted to bring twelve people together and dinners on meat,

696
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 2: and tell me why you want to bring twelve people

697
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 2: together to talk about race and identity and maybe difference.

698
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 2: And I'll buy you dinner, and I'll send you a

699
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 2: goodie box, and maybe the two of you can give

700
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 2: me pointers on what I should put in the hostess

701
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: goody box, because we're going to send a goody box

702
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 2: for whoever is hosting this. But the stories that we

703
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 2: got from people, and I think it was so popular.

704
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 2: I think we're going to try to do it every

705
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 2: month now. And my publisher's like, why are you giving

706
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: away books? You're supposed to be selling books. But at

707
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: the same time, if we can get people to come

708
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: together over this issue that support that allegedly divides us

709
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: and figure out how to talk. I mean, the book

710
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 2: clubs were so interesting. You know they were saying, we

711
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,439
Speaker 2: don't know how to talk about this, or we want

712
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: to pair with another book club. We know that there's

713
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 2: a great book club over there, and they're different than us,

714
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 2: but maybe we can six of us and six of

715
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 2: them can come together over food and we can have

716
00:40:54,480 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 2: this conversation. I think food lubricates a difficult conversation and

717
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: it enhances a good conversation.

718
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: It's certainly true if people are hungry, then it's not

719
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: going to be as cheerful or I'm not going to

720
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: go as well as it would go. Food Is there

721
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: which speaking of wed love localized specific dishes on Savor

722
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: it's one of our favorite things. Is there any dish

723
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: that has stuck out to you or that you've added

724
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: to your rotation since you've started doing this podcast?

725
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 3: Well?

726
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 2: There, I try to rotest all the recipes. Is challenging

727
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 2: right now because I'm in a period where I'm trying

728
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 2: not to eat as many carbs of sugar, and we've

729
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 2: had a run of dessert. So it's just been like,

730
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 2: you know, noodle coogles and cream cheese chewy sugar cookies,

731
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 2: and it's like, oh my god, I can't I have

732
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 2: to cook this and I can't eat this. But there

733
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 2: are a couple of things the family just thought were

734
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 2: bell ringers, and one of them was Andy Garcia's Boyo Fricassy,

735
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 2: which was a quick dish. You had to marinate it

736
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 2: overnight and a lot of citrus and a lot of garlic,

737
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 2: and you had to do it in a glass bowl

738
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 2: because it had so much citrus in it. And then

739
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 2: it had surprising I mean, as I was cooking this,

740
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: because I tried to do it as they suggest, it

741
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 2: had raisins. We all fall I know what I thought, hmm, okay,

742
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: I'm gonna add the raisins. And then it added frozen

743
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 2: peas and it was like, m okay, But it was fantastic.

744
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 2: The raisins plumped up and turned into these little and

745
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 2: they and you cooked it for so long that it

746
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 2: absorbed the wine and the vinegar and the juices from

747
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 2: the chicken and the tomato, and so when you bit

748
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 2: into one of the plump, they turned back into grapes,

749
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: and when you bit into one of the raisins, this

750
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: little explosion of sweet, savory, vinegary type flavor.

751
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 3: It was.

752
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 2: That was a winner. And the peas wound up adding

753
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 2: a little sweetness. So what are you doing with the

754
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 2: peas and the sugar and the peas and I'm sorry

755
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,720
Speaker 2: The raisins is to kind of balance all that citrus

756
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 2: and all that vinegar and all that garlic and a

757
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 2: prodigious amount of onions that were in this and so

758
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: it kind of balanced it out. That was a that

759
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 2: was a bell ringer. Michelle Obama's red rice. The family

760
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: loves it. She said that you could eat it cold

761
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 2: or hot, and she was, you know, absolutely right about that.

762
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: We have had it cold and hot. And that one

763
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 2: the family loves. Great for spread, cook it ahead of time,

764
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: great for like a brunch if you just want to,

765
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 2: you know, a side dish. Love that one. Abby Wambach

766
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: and Glennon Doyle. Abby shared her mother's pasta for thousands.

767
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 2: You can find all these on the on the YMK website,

768
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: Your Mama's Kitchen dot com. And that was another one

769
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 2: where it's it's kind of like lasagna. But easier because

770
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 2: she had seven kids and so she had to lazangni

771
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 2: takes a lot of time. Yeah, and it's hard to

772
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 2: find ricotta in some places, and so she used provolone.

773
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: And then she added a ton of sour cream. And

774
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 2: my son came in the kitchen I was cooking this.

775
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 2: He's like, what are you doing without the sour cream?

776
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 2: What is that going in the pasta? And I was like, yeah,

777
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 2: it's it's going in the pasta. And then like more

778
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 2: layers of pepperoni, and I know you're making faces. It's

779
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 2: you can't see Annie and Lauren are making faces. They're

780
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: passing judgment. There are no judgment.

781
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 1: They're a judgment curiosity.

782
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, it looks like judgment to me, looks

783
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: like judgment. And it's okay. Because when I was doing this,

784
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: I was like, how is this going to work? It

785
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 2: was fantastic. I made three pans of it and sent

786
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: kept one home, sent one to my father in law,

787
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 2: and sent one to my son and his wife and

788
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 2: their newborn. Everybody said that they had their feet up

789
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 2: in the air. They just dove into it and loved it.

790
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 2: So that is one that I think is a winner.

791
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 2: And there's there's one that I'll give you a preview.

792
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 2: I just mentioned I talked to Zarnegarde. Her recipe was

793
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 2: and so the you get a preview because this isn't

794
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 2: Erge yet. Her recipe was steamed broccoli. And again I'm

795
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 2: trying not to pass judgment. I'm like, hmm, steamed broccoli.

796
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 3: Like that's your favorite recipe, okay, okay.

797
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 2: And it turns out she is a fool for broccoli.

798
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 2: Like if you go to her house, broccoli is on

799
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 2: the menu, but her steam broccoli is not. You know,

800
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 2: because most of us think of steam broccoli and think

801
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 2: of it when it turns that other color. You know,

802
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 2: it's no longer a bright, vibrant kind of emerald shamrock green.

803
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 2: It gets that kind of avocado, you know. Cook too long,

804
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 2: high school cafeteria, you know what I'm talking about, and

805
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: the it gets its sad. It's just like I'm ready

806
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 2: for a nap. You know, you kept me in the

807
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 2: pan too long. And it's not doesn't seem aapetizing her.

808
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 2: She does it quickly two minutes, so it's bright and vibrant,

809
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 2: and then she covers it with olive oil. And then

810
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 2: sometimes she what was the word she used. Tempers the

811
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 2: olive oil. She tempers the olive oil by adding seeds

812
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 2: and adding kumin seeds and adding a little Grandma sala,

813
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 2: and adding a few other things, a little bit of chilis,

814
00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 2: and basically creates on very high heat very quickly, and

815
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 2: then takes that when it's steaming and fragrant, and then

816
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 2: puts that over the broccoli. Can you smell this? Yeah?

817
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 2: So I talked to her, and I went home and

818
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 2: did it immediately, And okay, broccoli, it's how to level

819
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 2: up broccoli. So I understand why when she was saying,

820
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: people don't eat bccoli, and they come to my house

821
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 2: and they eat my broccoli. And I was like, okay,

822
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 2: all right, and I understand, like if you if you

823
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 2: do this, if you do this to broccoli, everyone eat broccoli.

824
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 2: Even remember how George Bush hated brocoli, you probably would

825
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 2: eat this broccoli. It was. It was so that will

826
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 2: probably work its way into my rotation because that was

827
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 2: that was a bell ringer.

828
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 3: So yeah, I want to go do that right now.

829
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: I mean, most of them. The potato nick is Mark

830
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 2: Bittman's potato nick from his grandmother was a great recipe,

831
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 2: and in some cases we didn't. Actually, in two cases,

832
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 2: and maybe your listeners can help us out, people remember

833
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 2: the foo, but they didn't have a recipe. Oh. Actually,

834
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 2: in three cases, Dean Ice remembered his mom's cabbage, but

835
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 2: he didn't have a recipe for it. Matthew Broderick remembered ratitude.

836
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,439
Speaker 2: The woman who cooked for his family made a delicious ratitude,

837
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 2: and he said he's been searching for this ratatude all

838
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 2: her life, all his life, because hers was soft, but

839
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 2: everything didn't blend together. Ratatue is hard because sometimes it

840
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: gets too schlurry like, and hers everything had its own

841
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 2: individual texture and yet they all melded together. Uh. And

842
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 2: then W. Kmal Bell talked about his grandmother's fried pies

843
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 2: and okay, again, I wish people could see your eyes,

844
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 2: both of you. Annie, you in particularly you're like ooh

845
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:56,439
Speaker 2: ah fried bye. Oh he's a little of a pie.

846
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

847
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: I'm a piepeene too. I prefer pie overcake. I'm yes,

848
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: I want birthday pie. You know, take us fine, but

849
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 2: I rather a birthday pie. So I went all in

850
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 2: on fried pies also, And he was trying to find

851
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: his grandmother was from Kentucky, So I learned all about

852
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 2: fried pies and how they were poor folks food. They

853
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 2: were often sent in a lunchbox. They're called different things.

854
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 2: They're called clam lanterns in some places, and pasties and

855
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: toasties and other things, and different ingredients. You know, peaches

856
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 2: in some part of the world. In Tennessee, it's a

857
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 2: lot of blackberries tempered with a little bit of blueberries

858
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 2: for sweetness. But he is still trying to find the

859
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 2: fried pie recipe from his youth. He grew up in

860
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 2: spending summers in Mobile, Alabama, but his grandmother is from Kentucky.

861
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 2: So if anybody is listening and has a sort of

862
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 2: Southern particularly Kentucky, you know, idea of what a fried

863
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 2: pie would taste like, the crust on the pie, whether

864
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 2: it'd be fried and lard, or whether we'd have a

865
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 2: little bit of lard in the dough. Pass that on

866
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 2: to Annie and Lauren, and maybe all together we can

867
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 2: pass that to w camal Bell, because he's he still

868
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 2: hasn't found exactly the one. And if you if you're

869
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 2: if you're like him, and if you have a particular

870
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 2: taste of something you remember from your youth, you chase

871
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 2: that high for the rest of your life.

872
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 3: We've got a little bit more conversation left for you,

873
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 3: but first we've got one more quick break forward from

874
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 3: our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsors, and back

875
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 3: to the interview. The nostalgia with food is so strong.

876
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 3: It's it's amazing how close in our brains, our memory

877
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 3: centers and our centers are, and how all of that

878
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 3: information just really goes like I need fried chicken right now?

879
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 2: Just is that your Is that your food? It's a food?

880
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 2: What is your like like your rosebud food from childhood?

881
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 3: Probably I don't know quite how to make my grandmother's

882
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 3: mandel brot, and nobody else makes it the same way exactly,

883
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 3: like you can get a really good piscatti and come

884
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 3: kind of close. But she was really protective about the recipe,

885
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 3: and like, I technically have the recipe, but I feel

886
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 3: like there's a little bit of jeuge that she would

887
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 3: put in there, that she was keeping a little bit secret.

888
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 2: Well, you know they do that. We talked about this

889
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 2: on the air with Abbie and glennar because she so

890
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 2: that she tries to make her mom's recipe and never

891
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 2: tastes the same and you never give up that secret ingredient.

892
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 2: You don't want anybody else to show up with. Mandel

893
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 2: brought that t is better than yours.

894
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then a lady who started giving away her

895
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 3: possessions to me when she was like fifty five. I

896
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 3: was like, Grandma, you've got a minute to go. Ma'am like,

897
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 3: but yeah, But for some reason the recipe, she was like, no, no,

898
00:51:58,200 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 3: that's mine.

899
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 2: Annie, What what's your rosebud recipe? I'm sorry, I can't

900
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 2: help it. I started.

901
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: I know, I was worried this is gonna happen because

902
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: I did the prompt in my head and then immediately

903
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, I have so many

904
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: thoughts about this. I think that my mom. There's so

905
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 1: many things that my mom would make that are just

906
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: from a box, and I swear to God, I can't

907
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: replicate it. I don't know why. I don't know how,

908
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,439
Speaker 1: but they're like cookies she would just cut and make,

909
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 1: and maybe it was the memories of having them and

910
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: it being special, but it's not the same when I

911
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: do it. It was when she did it. She also

912
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: made an amazing freed chicken that I request when I

913
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: go home from my birth because it doesn't have it

914
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 1: doesn't have like the heavy oily feeling I feel like

915
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: you get at a lot of restaurants. It's like very fresh.

916
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: So that that's a big one.

917
00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: Okay. I have two thoughts on that. First of all,

918
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 2: the reason that things don't taste the same because she

919
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 2: put love in that her love, and so that was

920
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 2: the ingredient that you tasted. Yeah, and she might have

921
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 2: had She may have done something like put sea salt

922
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,919
Speaker 2: on that sliced cookie or something, or my mom would

923
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 2: make Jiff corn bread and I'd make Jiff corn burn.

924
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: I was like, does it taste like her? As it

925
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 2: turns out, she was heading all kinds of stuff in

926
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 2: the box, you know, chricken it up a little bit.

927
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 2: But love was probably the ingredient that you tasted. And

928
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 2: even though she cooked out of a box, she must

929
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 2: be a very confident cook because for her to make

930
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 2: fried chicken that is that crisp and doesn't have that,

931
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 2: that means she's cooking with really high heat.

932
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: Yes, and that I have never even tried to.

933
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 2: Do that, And that takes confidence. Because the reason that

934
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 2: chicken often has that oily because people don't trust their

935
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: stove they don't trust themselves, or they don't have the

936
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 2: right you know, they don't have that big skillet. You know,

937
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,359
Speaker 2: they don't have the right cook wear, and so they

938
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 2: can't get the skald on the food because they just

939
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 2: can't get that oil hot enough. And it sounds like

940
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 2: your mom was cooking with really high oil so that

941
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 2: it got that crisp. It cooked on the inside, but

942
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 2: it didn't absorb all that oil. And now I want

943
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 2: fried chicken.

944
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the fun of a food show.

945
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the cravings, the cravings are Are there any

946
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,399
Speaker 3: other upcoming episodes that you'd like to tease or any

947
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 3: other projects that you've got going on that you can

948
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 3: talk to us about.

949
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 2: We have upcoming conversations with Tameron Hall and Jesse Tyler

950
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 2: Ferguson who grew up in Albuquerque, and so you know

951
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 2: there we learned about Christmas peppers, like you know, if

952
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 2: you use the red peppers and the green peppers or

953
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 2: just the red peppers or the green peppers. So that

954
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 2: was a culinary adventure and how you want to get

955
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 2: certain kinds of peppers, like he craves certain things when

956
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 2: he goes home because you can get them fresh. Can

957
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 2: now procure them online, but it's really interesting to you know,

958
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 2: to learn about different different parts of the world and

959
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:11,840
Speaker 2: different different things that that people eat. We're also talking

960
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 2: to lean Awaths coming up, so we we have we're

961
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 2: going sort of all you know, all over the place

962
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 2: and in people's kitchens. And what we want also is

963
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 2: to hear from our listeners so we realize that we

964
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 2: have served up something delicious by bringing them inside the

965
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 2: kitchens of famous people. We want to hear from some

966
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 2: of our listeners, like tell us about your mama's kitchen,

967
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 2: because again, it's a way for us to see other worlds.

968
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 2: It's a way for us to see, you know, inside

969
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:51,359
Speaker 2: certain places. And we've asked people to to you know,

970
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 2: send us their their thoughts at your Mama's kitchen at

971
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 2: higher ground dot com and and the stories that they've

972
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 2: center just they're so sweet, you know, about growing up

973
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 2: with a family that didn't have much but figured out

974
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 2: how to feed you know, the loaves and fishes, you

975
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 2: know idea like they're wondering, how did my mom do this?

976
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:17,399
Speaker 2: You know, the refrigerator was empty, and yet she never

977
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 2: said no when people showed up at the door and

978
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 2: magically was able to feed people. We heard from someone

979
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 2: else whose mom was an adventurous cook, and she's like,

980
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 2: can we just have tater touts? Do we always have

981
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 2: to just something I can't pronounce because her mom was

982
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 2: like making baba ganoche and was using gochagungrino before it

983
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 2: was sold at Whole Foods. You know, was always trying

984
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 2: to travel and realizing that her mom they couldn't afford

985
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 2: to travel, but they could travel through food. And all

986
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,839
Speaker 2: these years later as someone who does travel and she's

987
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 2: trying new foods and she's realizing that this isn't the

988
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 2: first time I've had this thanks to my mom. I

989
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 2: already have a little bit of a palette from this.

990
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 2: So we hope to hear from from more of our listeners.

991
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 2: We want them to tell us about their mama's kitchens

992
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,240
Speaker 2: as well. Oh my goodness.

993
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 3: Yes, and we have some very excellent listeners here who

994
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 3: share amazing stories with us all the time. I hope

995
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 3: that they will go share their stories with you as well.

996
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can find the portal on the website and

997
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 2: just upload their own story. I'd love talking to you guys.

998
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 2: It's been a lot of fun.

999
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yeah, two, thank you Oh my goodness, thank

1000
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 3: you so much for being here. The question that we

1001
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 3: usually close on, and I feel like it's cheating because

1002
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 3: you are an interviewer, But is there anything that we

1003
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 3: have not asked you that we should have, anything else

1004
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 3: that you would like to speak to?

1005
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think we covered a lot

1006
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 2: of ground. The only thing you haven't asked me is

1007
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 2: where I'm going to get my fried chicken tonight? And

1008
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 2: I'm probably I'm really honest, I'm probably not going to

1009
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 2: cook fried chicken tonight. But for those of you who

1010
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 2: live in Washington, d C. There's this little place called

1011
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 2: Broad Branch Market and a woman named Tracy there learned

1012
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 2: how to make fried chicken when she was in a

1013
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 2: sorority from the woman who cooked in her southern sorority house.

1014
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 2: And she makes I've been eating her fried chicken four

1015
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 2: years now, and both my mother and my mother in law,

1016
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 2: who's now gone to Glory, but both of them ate

1017
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 2: that chicken and said, I don't know why you never

1018
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 2: make fried chicken again? I mean, why this is? This

1019
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 2: is just and you got this up the street? Oh yeah, this,

1020
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 2: you know, we're good with this. So Tracy had broadbranch,

1021
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 2: who I think is going to eventually write her own

1022
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: book book one day. She has a precious little market

1023
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 2: that's kind of like a silver palette, you know, where

1024
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 2: you can get you can get provisions, but she also

1025
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 2: has prepared foods. But after Annie, after hearing that story

1026
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,479
Speaker 2: about that fried chicken, I just now want a piece

1027
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 2: of crunchy fried chicken.

1028
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: It's hard to escape it is.

1029
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 2: It's not good for us, but it's so good in moderation, right,

1030
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 2: it's so nice.

1031
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 3: That's what we say here, Yes, yes, all right, Thank

1032
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 3: you so much, Michelle.

1033
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 2: I have loved talking to you. It's been fun.

1034
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: This brings us to the end of this interview. It

1035
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 1: was so so nice and we could have kept talking forever.

1036
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 1: So we hope you enjoyed it as much as we did.

1037
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and thanks again so much to Michelle for

1038
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 3: being so gracious with her time and her stories, and

1039
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 3: to Maggie Taylor and the whole team at Higher Ground

1040
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 3: Productions for helping us get all of this set up.

1041
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 2: If you would like.

1042
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 3: To tune in to this podcast, you can find your

1043
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 3: Mama's Kitchen wherever you get your podcasts. You can learn

1044
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 3: more about the race card project at the Racecard Project

1045
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 3: dot com. That book that came out about the project

1046
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 3: or surrounding it is called Our Hidden Conversations What Americans

1047
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 3: Really Think about Race and Identity. And Michelle does have

1048
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 3: a memoir out called The Grace of Silence. We didn't

1049
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 3: get into it here, but in her memoir she writes

1050
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 3: about her grandmother's experience as one of the performers and

1051
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 3: cooks who portray Aunt Jemima super, super fascinating and again

1052
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 3: just passionately interrogated.

1053
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: Absolutely and listeners. She called upon you to help solve

1054
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 1: some mysteries, perhaps to participate if you would like so,

1055
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: please please seek this out and if you would like

1056
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 1: to contact us about any of it or just in general,

1057
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: you can. Our email is Hello at savorpod dot com.

1058
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 3: We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,

1059
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 3: and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to

1060
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 3: hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more

1061
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,479
Speaker 3: podcasts to my heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,

1062
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

1063
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 3: Thanks us always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and

1064
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 3: Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope

1065
01:00:52,680 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 3: that lots more good things are coming your way.