Speaker 1: When you're working on a story, especially a documentary or
Speaker 1: a podcast like this one, in the back of your mind,
Speaker 1: there's always the hope that somehow something's going to help
Speaker 1: the story break open in a new way, that there
Speaker 1: will be breaking news. Our team was in the middle
Speaker 1: of putting this podcast together, doing interviews, conducting research, constructing
Speaker 1: the episodes when we got an alert that Paul Landis,
Speaker 1: one of President Kennedy's Secret Service agents, was coming forward
Speaker 1: with new information. A few of the Secret Service agents
Speaker 1: that were present that day have given interviews, some have
Speaker 1: written books, but mister Landis has never spoken out. As
Speaker 1: The New York Times said, he spent much of his
Speaker 1: life after Dallas fleeing from history, trying to put the
Speaker 1: horror from that day behind him. But now, at age
Speaker 1: eighty eight, mister Landis decided to share his memories from
Speaker 1: that day, including one moment that can be considered, if
Speaker 1: not a smoking gun, a smoking bullet.
Speaker 2: Paul Anders was twenty eight years old on November twenty second,
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three, and he was positioned on the running
Speaker 2: board of the car directly behind Kennedy as the motorcade
Speaker 2: weaved its way through the streets of Dallas and into
Speaker 2: Dealey Plaza. He agreed to talk to us about what
Speaker 2: he saw that day. Here's more of the interview we
Speaker 2: did with him, and I think it paints a vivid
Speaker 2: picture of what it was like to witness it all. So, Paul,
Speaker 2: the first thing is, can you just describe what you
Speaker 2: saw at the moment that the President was hit?
Speaker 3: Yes, or just after we made turn onto Elm Street
Speaker 3: and the two cars, President's limousine and the follow up
Speaker 3: car were starting to straighten up behind each other. When
Speaker 3: I heard the first shot, I looked at the President.
Speaker 3: He was leaning a little bit to his left. He
Speaker 3: was raising his arms, and I just thought that he
Speaker 3: was reacting to the sound and was turning to see
Speaker 3: where the sound came from. I did not realize at
Speaker 3: that point that the President had been hit.
Speaker 2: That was the first time he was hit, the first time.
Speaker 3: His arms were flying up from the impact, but I
Speaker 3: didn't realize he'd been hit at that time. So I
Speaker 3: turned and looking over my right shoulder where the sound
Speaker 3: came from, didn't see anything. Scanned down across what became
Speaker 3: known as the Grassy Knoll, and I scanned across the
Speaker 3: top of the underpass. We were approaching, and that time
Speaker 3: I was just happened to be looking in the President's
Speaker 3: direction again and the second shot, and just shortly after
Speaker 3: the second shot, I heard the third shot. I saw
Speaker 3: the presidents had split wide ope on the midst of
Speaker 3: blood and flesh and rain matter flew into the air.
Speaker 3: I ducked to avoid getting splattered. And at that point
Speaker 3: we assumed under the under kass and we were on
Speaker 3: our way to park On Memorial Hospital.
Speaker 2: So that fatal shot that you describe, you're saying that
Speaker 2: brain matter was flying towards you, right, Yes, how far
Speaker 2: behind were you?
Speaker 4: Probably fifteen, no more than twenty feet.
Speaker 3: I was standing on the great rear running board of
Speaker 3: half back the follow up car.
Speaker 2: Then you arrive at Parkland Hospital, and I know there's
Speaker 2: all chaos and trying to get the president in and
Speaker 2: be treated in all of that. And then you described
Speaker 2: this thing, and I know you've said it before, but
Speaker 2: I'd look to hear it again in your words, that
Speaker 2: you happened to find this a bullet in the back seat.
Speaker 2: Can you just explain that.
Speaker 1: Pay attention, because this is the part that's breaking news,
Speaker 1: a bombshell in the history of the investigation into the
Speaker 1: Kennedy assassination.
Speaker 4: Well, I raised to.
Speaker 3: The President's and Missus Kennedy was sitting on the left
Speaker 3: center of the rear seat, and when I got there,
Speaker 3: I reached over the door, took her by the shoulders
Speaker 3: and asked if I could help her, and she said no,
Speaker 3: she wanted to stay with family. About that time, Clint
Speaker 3: Hill came around, covered the President's head with his suit coat,
Speaker 3: and Missus Kennedy released him, and they were starting to
Speaker 3: get up. As soon as she's about right behind where
Speaker 3: she had been sitting, there was a pristine bullet.
Speaker 1: A pristine bullet in the backseat of the car, the
Speaker 1: seat where the President and the First Lady had been sitting.
Speaker 4: I picked this bullet up.
Speaker 3: It was not deformed, other than it had recognized striations
Speaker 3: hunt that it had been fired. I'm looking around, I
Speaker 3: see no agents behind the car. Everybody was concentrating on
Speaker 3: the President, so I didn't know what to do right away,
Speaker 3: but I was afraid this bullet was an important piece
Speaker 3: of evidence and I didn't want it to get lost.
Speaker 3: There were people merging on the car at the time,
Speaker 3: so I slipped it in my pocket and raced in
Speaker 3: with the journey carrying the president's body.
Speaker 2: Now, the bullet that you found, you said that it
Speaker 2: was virtually pristine. So did it look like it had
Speaker 2: hit anything.
Speaker 4: It could not look like it hit anything.
Speaker 3: All I had was the extridations on the out side.
Speaker 4: It was just like resting on the top of a seat.
Speaker 2: So what do you think, I mean, where do you
Speaker 2: think this bullet came from?
Speaker 3: I had no idea where it came from, other than
Speaker 3: I was thinking the you know, the president's.
Speaker 2: Body, because I mean there was in the autopsy they
Speaker 2: showed that a bullet hit him in the back. So
Speaker 2: is that possible that maybe that bullet was the one
Speaker 2: that hit him in the back.
Speaker 4: I think that's very possible.
Speaker 3: They didn't discover a back room until we got that
Speaker 3: to Washington.
Speaker 1: I want to pause here in this interview for just
Speaker 1: a moment and make sure that everybody understands the significance
Speaker 1: of what mister Landis is sharing with us.
Speaker 4: Rob.
Speaker 2: Can you explain it completely destroys the single bullet theory.
Speaker 2: I mean, we already knew the theory made absolutely no sense,
Speaker 2: But the discovery of this bullet in the back seat
Speaker 2: of Kennedy's limo puts the final nail in its coffin.
Speaker 1: Walk me through what's so powerful about this information?
Speaker 2: As our listeners know, the single bullet theory holds that
Speaker 2: one bullet supposedly entered Kennedy's back six to eight inches
Speaker 2: below his neck, then traveled up, exited his neck, then
Speaker 2: made a turn, entered Governor Connolly's back, broke bones in
Speaker 2: his wrist before winding up in his thigh, and somehow
Speaker 2: the bullet ends up virtually pristine. So now this pristine
Speaker 2: bullet would have to have gone through both the President
Speaker 2: and Governor Connolly, breaking multiple bones, then somehow bounced back
Speaker 2: into the backseat of the car. And if somehow this
Speaker 2: bullet didn't accomplish all this, it means there had to
Speaker 2: be more than one shooter, making it a conspiracy.
Speaker 1: Okay, while we digest that, let's go back to the
Speaker 1: Landis interview and hear what else he has to say.
Speaker 2: You put the bullet in your pocket, and then you
Speaker 2: followed them into Parkland Hospital, and then then what did
Speaker 2: you do with the bullet?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 3: We raced across the emergency room entrance, we made a turn,
Speaker 3: went down a hallway, and we arrived at trauma Room one.
Speaker 3: There was a crowd of people that had joined us
Speaker 3: at that point, and it was kind of pushed into
Speaker 3: the room. I was just forced up against the examination table,
Speaker 3: right next to his feet. Thought that this is a
Speaker 3: perfect place to leave the bullet. So I reached into
Speaker 3: my pocket, took it out and placed it by the
Speaker 3: presidents left shoe.
Speaker 2: And what was the reason that you decided to put
Speaker 2: it there?
Speaker 3: I just thought it was an important piece of evidence.
Speaker 3: Doctors would find it when they did their examination.
Speaker 2: Nobody saw the bullet at that point.
Speaker 4: No, because people were shoving, pushing, shouting.
Speaker 2: Somebody found it somewhere and entered it into evidence. Do
Speaker 2: you have any idea who might have picked that up
Speaker 2: or found it?
Speaker 3: Well, I've read things since how the bullet was found.
Speaker 3: Supposedly it was on Connolly's stretcher. I knew that that
Speaker 3: was not true. When I saw a picture of the bullet,
Speaker 3: my immediate reaction was, Hey, that's my bullet, and I's
Speaker 3: not from Governor Connolly's stretcher. I put it next to
Speaker 3: the President's feet.
Speaker 2: But obviously somebody either moved it or picked it up
Speaker 2: or whatever, because it is in evidence. I mean, we
Speaker 2: have pictures of it that we see that were in
Speaker 2: into evidence. I don't know if you've seen that picture
Speaker 2: of it. Yes, I have.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's what I recognized.
Speaker 2: And I'm just curious why you know at this point
Speaker 2: you decided to come forward.
Speaker 3: I've been told. I understand now at the post traumatic
Speaker 3: stress I suffered through this for quite a while. I
Speaker 3: have to read the Secret Service. I was suffering too much.
Speaker 3: The newsreel of the President's had exploring. People have asked
Speaker 3: me about Dallas, and I just never talked about it.
Speaker 2: Listen, I can understand it because you know, it was
Speaker 2: so shocking at the time, and then in the seventies
Speaker 2: when the Zuppruder film was first shown to the public.
Speaker 2: It's so disturbing and so upsetting. And you were there,
Speaker 2: like you said, brain matter is hitting you. I can
Speaker 2: see how it's a trauma that is beyond description, and
Speaker 2: I can understand not wanting to relive that. So the
Speaker 2: Warren Commission, they never asked you to testify, or they
Speaker 2: never questioned you or interviewed you.
Speaker 4: No, I assumed.
Speaker 3: Once I knew the Warren Commission had been created, I said, well,
Speaker 3: I'm going to be in for an interview here. And
Speaker 3: I was dreading it. I was glad it never happened
Speaker 3: because I knew I would break it down there and
Speaker 3: that was a very good image for secrets of this agent.
Speaker 3: The Warren Commission never interviewed any of the other agents
Speaker 3: that were in the follow up car.
Speaker 2: Well, listen, you know, I can't tell you how much
Speaker 2: I appreciate you giving me some time to talk. This
Speaker 2: has been something I've been thinking about since the day
Speaker 2: had happened. And you know, every time you hear some
Speaker 2: new information that may shed more light on what happened
Speaker 2: that day, people like me and you know we're getting older,
Speaker 2: you know, who still care about this, are grateful to
Speaker 2: hear from you and hear what you had to say.
Speaker 2: So I just want to thank you so much for
Speaker 2: giving me the time.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you for offering me the opportunity. I appreciate
Speaker 4: it very much.
Speaker 1: That was amazing, and not just what we learned from
Speaker 1: him and the implication that it has on our understanding
Speaker 1: of the assassination, but he's another person whose life was
Speaker 1: profoundly impacted by this tragedy. I cannot imagine living with
Speaker 1: what he has seen for all of these years.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it's amazing that He's coming forth now to
Speaker 2: share what he saw, and it brings absolutely true. For years,
Speaker 2: the pristine bullet was a mystery, not just how was
Speaker 2: in such good shape, but how it was found lying
Speaker 2: on that stretcher. Nobody could plausibly explain how it got there.
Speaker 2: But now we have a secret service agent who finds
Speaker 2: the bullet in the back seat of Kennedy's car and
Speaker 2: wanting to make sure nobody took it as a souvenir,
Speaker 2: he picks it up puts it on the President s Kearnie.
Speaker 2: This is the most significant piece of the puzzle that
Speaker 2: we've been trying to solve for sixty years. Who Killed JFK?
Speaker 1: Is hosted by Rob Reiner and Me Solidad O'Brien and
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner, Matt George,
Speaker 1: Jason English, David Hoffman, and Me Solidad O'Brien. Our writer
Speaker 1: is David Hoffman, with research by Dick Russell. Our story
Speaker 1: editors are Rob Reiner and Julie Pinero. Our senior producer
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