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Speaker 1: When you're working on a story, especially a documentary or

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Speaker 1: a podcast like this one, in the back of your mind,

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Speaker 1: there's always the hope that somehow something's going to help

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Speaker 1: the story break open in a new way, that there

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Speaker 1: will be breaking news. Our team was in the middle

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Speaker 1: of putting this podcast together, doing interviews, conducting research, constructing

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Speaker 1: the episodes when we got an alert that Paul Landis,

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Speaker 1: one of President Kennedy's Secret Service agents, was coming forward

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Speaker 1: with new information. A few of the Secret Service agents

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Speaker 1: that were present that day have given interviews, some have

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Speaker 1: written books, but mister Landis has never spoken out. As

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Speaker 1: The New York Times said, he spent much of his

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Speaker 1: life after Dallas fleeing from history, trying to put the

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Speaker 1: horror from that day behind him. But now, at age

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Speaker 1: eighty eight, mister Landis decided to share his memories from

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Speaker 1: that day, including one moment that can be considered, if

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Speaker 1: not a smoking gun, a smoking bullet.

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Speaker 2: Paul Anders was twenty eight years old on November twenty second,

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three, and he was positioned on the running

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Speaker 2: board of the car directly behind Kennedy as the motorcade

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Speaker 2: weaved its way through the streets of Dallas and into

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Speaker 2: Dealey Plaza. He agreed to talk to us about what

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Speaker 2: he saw that day. Here's more of the interview we

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Speaker 2: did with him, and I think it paints a vivid

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Speaker 2: picture of what it was like to witness it all. So, Paul,

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Speaker 2: the first thing is, can you just describe what you

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Speaker 2: saw at the moment that the President was hit?

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Speaker 3: Yes, or just after we made turn onto Elm Street

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Speaker 3: and the two cars, President's limousine and the follow up

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Speaker 3: car were starting to straighten up behind each other. When

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Speaker 3: I heard the first shot, I looked at the President.

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Speaker 3: He was leaning a little bit to his left. He

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Speaker 3: was raising his arms, and I just thought that he

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Speaker 3: was reacting to the sound and was turning to see

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Speaker 3: where the sound came from. I did not realize at

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Speaker 3: that point that the President had been hit.

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Speaker 2: That was the first time he was hit, the first time.

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Speaker 3: His arms were flying up from the impact, but I

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Speaker 3: didn't realize he'd been hit at that time. So I

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Speaker 3: turned and looking over my right shoulder where the sound

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Speaker 3: came from, didn't see anything. Scanned down across what became

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Speaker 3: known as the Grassy Knoll, and I scanned across the

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Speaker 3: top of the underpass. We were approaching, and that time

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Speaker 3: I was just happened to be looking in the President's

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Speaker 3: direction again and the second shot, and just shortly after

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Speaker 3: the second shot, I heard the third shot. I saw

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Speaker 3: the presidents had split wide ope on the midst of

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Speaker 3: blood and flesh and rain matter flew into the air.

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Speaker 3: I ducked to avoid getting splattered. And at that point

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Speaker 3: we assumed under the under kass and we were on

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Speaker 3: our way to park On Memorial Hospital.

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Speaker 2: So that fatal shot that you describe, you're saying that

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Speaker 2: brain matter was flying towards you, right, Yes, how far

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Speaker 2: behind were you?

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Speaker 4: Probably fifteen, no more than twenty feet.

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Speaker 3: I was standing on the great rear running board of

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Speaker 3: half back the follow up car.

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Speaker 2: Then you arrive at Parkland Hospital, and I know there's

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Speaker 2: all chaos and trying to get the president in and

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Speaker 2: be treated in all of that. And then you described

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Speaker 2: this thing, and I know you've said it before, but

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Speaker 2: I'd look to hear it again in your words, that

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Speaker 2: you happened to find this a bullet in the back seat.

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Speaker 2: Can you just explain that.

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Speaker 1: Pay attention, because this is the part that's breaking news,

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Speaker 1: a bombshell in the history of the investigation into the

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Speaker 1: Kennedy assassination.

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Speaker 4: Well, I raised to.

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Speaker 3: The President's and Missus Kennedy was sitting on the left

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Speaker 3: center of the rear seat, and when I got there,

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Speaker 3: I reached over the door, took her by the shoulders

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Speaker 3: and asked if I could help her, and she said no,

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Speaker 3: she wanted to stay with family. About that time, Clint

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Speaker 3: Hill came around, covered the President's head with his suit coat,

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Speaker 3: and Missus Kennedy released him, and they were starting to

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Speaker 3: get up. As soon as she's about right behind where

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Speaker 3: she had been sitting, there was a pristine bullet.

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Speaker 1: A pristine bullet in the backseat of the car, the

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Speaker 1: seat where the President and the First Lady had been sitting.

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Speaker 4: I picked this bullet up.

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Speaker 3: It was not deformed, other than it had recognized striations

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Speaker 3: hunt that it had been fired. I'm looking around, I

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Speaker 3: see no agents behind the car. Everybody was concentrating on

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Speaker 3: the President, so I didn't know what to do right away,

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Speaker 3: but I was afraid this bullet was an important piece

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Speaker 3: of evidence and I didn't want it to get lost.

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Speaker 3: There were people merging on the car at the time,

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Speaker 3: so I slipped it in my pocket and raced in

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Speaker 3: with the journey carrying the president's body.

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Speaker 2: Now, the bullet that you found, you said that it

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Speaker 2: was virtually pristine. So did it look like it had

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Speaker 2: hit anything.

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Speaker 4: It could not look like it hit anything.

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Speaker 3: All I had was the extridations on the out side.

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Speaker 4: It was just like resting on the top of a seat.

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Speaker 2: So what do you think, I mean, where do you

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Speaker 2: think this bullet came from?

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Speaker 3: I had no idea where it came from, other than

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Speaker 3: I was thinking the you know, the president's.

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Speaker 2: Body, because I mean there was in the autopsy they

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Speaker 2: showed that a bullet hit him in the back. So

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Speaker 2: is that possible that maybe that bullet was the one

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Speaker 2: that hit him in the back.

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Speaker 4: I think that's very possible.

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Speaker 3: They didn't discover a back room until we got that

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Speaker 3: to Washington.

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Speaker 1: I want to pause here in this interview for just

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Speaker 1: a moment and make sure that everybody understands the significance

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Speaker 1: of what mister Landis is sharing with us.

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Speaker 4: Rob.

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Speaker 2: Can you explain it completely destroys the single bullet theory.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we already knew the theory made absolutely no sense,

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Speaker 2: But the discovery of this bullet in the back seat

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Speaker 2: of Kennedy's limo puts the final nail in its coffin.

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Speaker 1: Walk me through what's so powerful about this information?

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Speaker 2: As our listeners know, the single bullet theory holds that

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Speaker 2: one bullet supposedly entered Kennedy's back six to eight inches

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Speaker 2: below his neck, then traveled up, exited his neck, then

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Speaker 2: made a turn, entered Governor Connolly's back, broke bones in

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Speaker 2: his wrist before winding up in his thigh, and somehow

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Speaker 2: the bullet ends up virtually pristine. So now this pristine

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Speaker 2: bullet would have to have gone through both the President

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Speaker 2: and Governor Connolly, breaking multiple bones, then somehow bounced back

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Speaker 2: into the backseat of the car. And if somehow this

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Speaker 2: bullet didn't accomplish all this, it means there had to

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Speaker 2: be more than one shooter, making it a conspiracy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, while we digest that, let's go back to the

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Speaker 1: Landis interview and hear what else he has to say.

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Speaker 2: You put the bullet in your pocket, and then you

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Speaker 2: followed them into Parkland Hospital, and then then what did

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Speaker 2: you do with the bullet?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 3: We raced across the emergency room entrance, we made a turn,

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Speaker 3: went down a hallway, and we arrived at trauma Room one.

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Speaker 3: There was a crowd of people that had joined us

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Speaker 3: at that point, and it was kind of pushed into

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Speaker 3: the room. I was just forced up against the examination table,

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Speaker 3: right next to his feet. Thought that this is a

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Speaker 3: perfect place to leave the bullet. So I reached into

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Speaker 3: my pocket, took it out and placed it by the

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Speaker 3: presidents left shoe.

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Speaker 2: And what was the reason that you decided to put

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Speaker 2: it there?

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Speaker 3: I just thought it was an important piece of evidence.

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Speaker 3: Doctors would find it when they did their examination.

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Speaker 2: Nobody saw the bullet at that point.

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Speaker 4: No, because people were shoving, pushing, shouting.

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Speaker 2: Somebody found it somewhere and entered it into evidence. Do

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Speaker 2: you have any idea who might have picked that up

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Speaker 2: or found it?

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Speaker 3: Well, I've read things since how the bullet was found.

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Speaker 3: Supposedly it was on Connolly's stretcher. I knew that that

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Speaker 3: was not true. When I saw a picture of the bullet,

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Speaker 3: my immediate reaction was, Hey, that's my bullet, and I's

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Speaker 3: not from Governor Connolly's stretcher. I put it next to

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Speaker 3: the President's feet.

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Speaker 2: But obviously somebody either moved it or picked it up

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Speaker 2: or whatever, because it is in evidence. I mean, we

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Speaker 2: have pictures of it that we see that were in

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Speaker 2: into evidence. I don't know if you've seen that picture

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Speaker 2: of it. Yes, I have.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's what I recognized.

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Speaker 2: And I'm just curious why you know at this point

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Speaker 2: you decided to come forward.

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Speaker 3: I've been told. I understand now at the post traumatic

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Speaker 3: stress I suffered through this for quite a while. I

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Speaker 3: have to read the Secret Service. I was suffering too much.

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Speaker 3: The newsreel of the President's had exploring. People have asked

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Speaker 3: me about Dallas, and I just never talked about it.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I can understand it because you know, it was

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Speaker 2: so shocking at the time, and then in the seventies

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Speaker 2: when the Zuppruder film was first shown to the public.

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Speaker 2: It's so disturbing and so upsetting. And you were there,

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Speaker 2: like you said, brain matter is hitting you. I can

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Speaker 2: see how it's a trauma that is beyond description, and

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Speaker 2: I can understand not wanting to relive that. So the

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Speaker 2: Warren Commission, they never asked you to testify, or they

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Speaker 2: never questioned you or interviewed you.

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Speaker 4: No, I assumed.

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Speaker 3: Once I knew the Warren Commission had been created, I said, well,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be in for an interview here. And

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Speaker 3: I was dreading it. I was glad it never happened

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Speaker 3: because I knew I would break it down there and

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Speaker 3: that was a very good image for secrets of this agent.

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Speaker 3: The Warren Commission never interviewed any of the other agents

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Speaker 3: that were in the follow up car.

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Speaker 2: Well, listen, you know, I can't tell you how much

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Speaker 2: I appreciate you giving me some time to talk. This

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Speaker 2: has been something I've been thinking about since the day

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Speaker 2: had happened. And you know, every time you hear some

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Speaker 2: new information that may shed more light on what happened

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Speaker 2: that day, people like me and you know we're getting older,

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Speaker 2: you know, who still care about this, are grateful to

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Speaker 2: hear from you and hear what you had to say.

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Speaker 2: So I just want to thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: giving me the time.

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Speaker 4: Well, thank you for offering me the opportunity. I appreciate

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Speaker 4: it very much.

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Speaker 1: That was amazing, and not just what we learned from

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Speaker 1: him and the implication that it has on our understanding

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Speaker 1: of the assassination, but he's another person whose life was

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Speaker 1: profoundly impacted by this tragedy. I cannot imagine living with

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Speaker 1: what he has seen for all of these years.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it's amazing that He's coming forth now to

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Speaker 2: share what he saw, and it brings absolutely true. For years,

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Speaker 2: the pristine bullet was a mystery, not just how was

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Speaker 2: in such good shape, but how it was found lying

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Speaker 2: on that stretcher. Nobody could plausibly explain how it got there.

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Speaker 2: But now we have a secret service agent who finds

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Speaker 2: the bullet in the back seat of Kennedy's car and

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Speaker 2: wanting to make sure nobody took it as a souvenir,

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Speaker 2: he picks it up puts it on the President s Kearnie.

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Speaker 2: This is the most significant piece of the puzzle that

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Speaker 2: we've been trying to solve for sixty years. Who Killed JFK?

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Speaker 1: Is hosted by Rob Reiner and Me Solidad O'Brien and

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Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner, Matt George,

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Speaker 1: Jason English, David Hoffman, and Me Solidad O'Brien. Our writer

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Speaker 1: is David Hoffman, with research by Dick Russell. Our story

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Speaker 1: editors are Rob Reiner and Julie Pinero. Our senior producer

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Speaker 1: is Julie Pinnero. Our producers are Tristan Nash, Dick Russell,

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Speaker 1: Michelle Goldfein, and Amari Lee. Our editors are Tristan Nash,

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Speaker 1: Julie Pineto, and Marcus de Lauro.

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Speaker 2: Our project manager is Carol Klein.

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Speaker 1: Our associate producer is emilse Kiros. Mixing, mastering and sound

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Speaker 1: design by Ben la Hulier, Research and fact checking by

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Speaker 1: Girl Friday and emilse Kiros, Business affairs by Hennan Nadea

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Speaker 1: and Jonathan Furman. Our consulting producer is Razanne Galliini. Recorded

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Speaker 1: in part at CDM Studio and Fourth Street Recording Studio.

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Speaker 1: Show logo by Lucy Quintanilla. Production assistants by Rocco Del

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Speaker 1: Prior and Grace Barron. Special thanks to Johonig Rose Arsa

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Speaker 1: and Dan Storper. If you're enjoying the show, leave us

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Speaker 1: a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Who

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Speaker 1: Killed JFK as a production of Solidad O'Brien Productions and

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Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts