Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: And welcome back George Norrie with Fritz Zimmerman. Fritz, of course,
Speaker 2: is an independent researcher, author of a number of books,
Speaker 2: including The Nepheline Chronicles, The Encyclopedia of Ancient Giants in
Speaker 2: North America, Mysteries of Ancient America in his latest Spook
Speaker 2: Ancient America The Dark Side. He has spent twelve years
Speaker 2: plus in the field of investigating hundreds of mound and
Speaker 2: earthwork sites in the Ohio Ohio Valley for his travel
Speaker 2: guide and here he is back on Coast to Coast.
Speaker 2: Tell all, Fritz.
Speaker 3: Hieraban, Hi, good to be with you tonight.
Speaker 2: Seven hundred plus mounds. What does that look like?
Speaker 3: That is twelve years of your life of just going
Speaker 3: to mound sites. And you know, here in Indiana we
Speaker 3: only have three mound and earthwork sites that are history
Speaker 3: registered as historic sites, when there's eighty five. So a
Speaker 3: lot of that was doing the Archaeological Survey of Indiana.
Speaker 3: So that took that was about four hundred sites. And
Speaker 3: then I was also in Ohio and West Virginia, Kentucky
Speaker 3: and in southern Michigan and photographed those as well, so
Speaker 3: very time consuming to do that. Many times we'd have
Speaker 3: to go back to a site maybe two or three
Speaker 3: times just to get permission to go on the land.
Speaker 3: So they needed to be done. In Ohio, a lot
Speaker 3: of the sites are address restricted, so I found those
Speaker 3: and made those available, you know, for people to see firs.
Speaker 2: These mounds are burial sites. How many bodies are in
Speaker 2: there generally, you.
Speaker 3: Know, it's kind of hard to say. You know, some
Speaker 3: it would just be like one or two. You know.
Speaker 3: Grave Creek had two main tombs, one lower and had
Speaker 3: a man in it that was like over eight foot
Speaker 3: and then a woman in an upper tomb. Great Creek
Speaker 3: Mound is the largest in the Ohio Valley. It's seventy
Speaker 3: foot in heights. But you know, with the limited excavations
Speaker 3: they did, there's layers of ashes in there, which is
Speaker 3: probably cremated remains of people. So while it would have
Speaker 3: maybe two, you know, you would count on the outside
Speaker 3: there might be hundreds of people that they're cremated remains
Speaker 3: were in the burial mound as well.
Speaker 2: How did they get the bodies into the mounds? Did
Speaker 2: they just dig a hole? Drop it in or what.
Speaker 3: Well, generally what it would happen, It would be over time.
Speaker 3: It would start out as a ternal house in many cases,
Speaker 3: and they would put the bodies in the ternal house,
Speaker 3: so where they put the bones, they would probably leave
Speaker 3: the body out and carry in feet would you know,
Speaker 3: peck it down to the bones, and then they would
Speaker 3: bundle those up and then they'd have this pause where
Speaker 3: they'd have all these bones of ancestors, and then at
Speaker 3: some point they would burn the turnal house down, cremate
Speaker 3: their remains so the bone remains, and then they might
Speaker 3: put a single burial there and then they would layer
Speaker 3: over the top of that and then put another turnal
Speaker 3: house on top of that and it starts to process again.
Speaker 3: So over the course of time you would have layers. However,
Speaker 3: there's others that they would put a tomb, like a
Speaker 3: log tomb, and then they would just build over that
Speaker 3: and that would be the mound, and so there was
Speaker 3: nobody else in there, so over time they got larger.
Speaker 3: I think like a grave prequel. It's the largest mound
Speaker 3: that probably went up fast because we have a lower
Speaker 3: tomb and an upper tomb, and I take it that
Speaker 3: was kind of like the leader and his wife was
Speaker 3: up in the upper tomb. So it kind of varies.
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes they would build them all at once,
Speaker 3: and then other times it was an accumulation over time
Speaker 3: and adding burials as they went rus.
Speaker 2: How old are the mounds.
Speaker 3: The mounds in the Ohio Valley can date as early
Speaker 3: as eight hundred BC, and they're going to go right
Speaker 3: up to about five hundred BC, so it's some of
Speaker 3: the oldest mounds in the nation. I know there's mounds
Speaker 3: in a lot of places, but they're generally not that old.
Speaker 3: When you're looking in the south, you know, those are
Speaker 3: more Mississippian area era, so those are around eight hundred eighty.
Speaker 3: But these are where the old old burial mounds. And
Speaker 3: then the mounds in Ohio or in the Ohio Valley,
Speaker 3: those are where you're finding your hinges and also your
Speaker 3: geometric earthworks, and those are associated with the giants.
Speaker 2: The giants who.
Speaker 3: Well, all indications would say that these were the same
Speaker 3: people called the Amorites, which were the one of the
Speaker 3: tribes accounted giant tribes in the Bible. They were a
Speaker 3: real tribe. They actually controlled Babylon from two thousand BC
Speaker 3: to sixteen hundred BC, and kind of one of their
Speaker 3: calling cards was advanced mathematics. Of that they knew pie
Speaker 3: and square roots of numbers. They had the Zagarant theorem
Speaker 3: of triangles a thousand years before the Thagron had them.
Speaker 3: And we find all of those mathematical properties in the
Speaker 3: building of the geometric earthworks in the Ohio Valley, including
Speaker 3: patagara and triangles, which just got revealed at the Winchester
Speaker 3: earth Works. It's a rectangular earthwork in Winchester, Indiana that
Speaker 3: that was built using patagon and triangles.
Speaker 2: What were they doing in the Ohio Valley, Fritz, all
Speaker 2: the way from Bebylon, Well, it.
Speaker 3: Was kind of they went there. The mounds in the
Speaker 3: British Isles in England, and of course there's Stonehenge. They
Speaker 3: have conical burial mounds that had either a moat or
Speaker 3: moat ditch and earthwork around those. They were also building,
Speaker 3: you know, hinges that are very similar to what we
Speaker 3: find in the Ohio Valley. So there's a great similarity.
Speaker 3: And those are known as the Beaker people, which is
Speaker 3: what the archeologists would call them, but other researches said
Speaker 3: that those were Amororites, those were Amorites that built those.
Speaker 3: They came over here to get the copper out of
Speaker 3: Isle Royal, which I'm sure you've had guests talk about that.
Speaker 3: But there's five hundred thousand tons of copper that was
Speaker 3: mined out of there, and certainly we have no account
Speaker 3: of that. It's not found in burial mounds or it's
Speaker 3: not found anywhere else. So it's like where did it go?
Speaker 3: So being probably in the Middle Bronze Age that it
Speaker 3: was going over into the Middle East and it was
Speaker 3: used to make weapons over there. So I think they
Speaker 3: I think commerce originally brought them over here, and then
Speaker 3: I believe that around sixteen hundred BC they exited the
Speaker 3: Biblical Lands because the Israelites were taking part of that
Speaker 3: control of that you had the hit sites that we
Speaker 3: know historically that they were making Emiright King's vassals, and
Speaker 3: then we were playing tribute that they probably left. Some
Speaker 3: were probably homesteaded in the British Isles, and I can
Speaker 3: tell others just came there to the Ohio Valley.
Speaker 2: Title of your book is called Ancient America The Dark Side,
Speaker 2: but it's about paranormal activity out there. What kind of
Speaker 2: activity is there?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, in the Book of Enoch, they talk
Speaker 3: about the giants, and they say that the giants who
Speaker 3: were produced from the spirits of flesh, when the fallen
Speaker 3: angels mate it with the women, that they would be
Speaker 3: called evil spirits on earth, and Earth shall be their dwelling.
Speaker 3: So these people buried in the mound, the giants, they
Speaker 3: are earth bound spirits. And there is hauntings associated with
Speaker 3: many of the burial mound sites of shadow people. And
Speaker 3: then I've witnessed that myself and cryptids UFOs being cited
Speaker 3: at mound sites. And you know, it's kind of a
Speaker 3: topic that I've known about for years because I had
Speaker 3: my own paranormal experiences a different mound and earthwork sites.
Speaker 3: So printing this book with some trepidation because I know
Speaker 3: how big ghost hunting is out there, you know now,
Speaker 3: and you know, it's kind of a scary proposition for
Speaker 3: people going out there with mel meters and you know,
Speaker 3: all this other stuff in sights, because it's really not
Speaker 3: the kind of spirits that you want to conjure up.
Speaker 3: If you're there and you see one, fine, but I
Speaker 3: certainly wouldn't go and you know, try to irritate one
Speaker 3: of them.
Speaker 2: Tell Us about your paranormal experiences friends.
Speaker 3: Well one, you know, I interviewed somebody and I'll follow
Speaker 3: up on that. But I was up on top of
Speaker 3: Fort Hill and that's in southern Ohio and Highland County.
Speaker 3: This is a hilltop enclosure. It's a mile and a
Speaker 3: half around and it's a four foot stone wall that
Speaker 3: undulates like a great serpent around this thing, and it
Speaker 3: accumulates with what looks to me like two serpent heads
Speaker 3: coming together. And I was up at the gateway where
Speaker 3: these you know, this gateway where these serpent heads come together,
Speaker 3: and I was getting ready to go down that hill
Speaker 3: and then there's a path and that'll take you down
Speaker 3: your car about eight nine hundred foot and I was
Speaker 3: getting ready to go. I'd taken my photos and out
Speaker 3: of the corner of my eye, I saw something move
Speaker 3: from left to right, and my glance over there, it's like,
Speaker 3: I'm sure I saw something over here. About fifteen seconds
Speaker 3: after that, there was a large black mass that was
Speaker 3: about eight foot humanoid, but it was just like jet
Speaker 3: black figure. But it went out of one tree and
Speaker 3: it went about twenty foot and it was much larger
Speaker 3: than this tree that it kind of went behind but
Speaker 3: when it got to the tree, it just vanished. I
Speaker 3: mean kind of like you was highting behind the tree,
Speaker 3: but it was bigger than tree. But then you couldn't
Speaker 3: see it. Well I saw that, Did I just see it?
Speaker 3: And they always kind of question yourself when you see
Speaker 3: something like that. It's like, did I believe to see that?
Speaker 3: So I just kept looking at that tree that I
Speaker 3: saw that thing go behind. And then it moved from
Speaker 3: that tree and then back to the right again about
Speaker 3: another twenty foot and I lost it dhind another tree.
Speaker 3: Well by that time, it's like, okay, I saw that,
Speaker 3: and I was up there by myself, so that was
Speaker 3: a bit scary. So I scurried down the hill and
Speaker 3: then got onto the path and I made my way down,
Speaker 3: and interesting enough, I interviewed a fella that was up
Speaker 3: there with a friend of his and he said, yeah,
Speaker 3: I said, I saw a shadow person up there. And
Speaker 3: I said, where were you? And he goes, I was
Speaker 3: up at the gate, you know where the go to
Speaker 3: stone walls terminate. And I go, I know exactly where
Speaker 3: you are. I said, was it over there to the right,
Speaker 3: And he's like, yeah, it was just beyond the stone wall.
Speaker 3: So they saw the exact same thing in the exact
Speaker 3: same place. The buddy that he was with he thought
Speaker 3: it was big foot and he was a complete non
Speaker 3: believer in anything paranormal, and he really shook up over it.
Speaker 3: During this guy that you know, we got down to
Speaker 3: the car and because I didn't really say anything, and
Speaker 3: I asked him because I wanted to make sure that
Speaker 3: he saw what I saw. And he's like asking, It's like,
Speaker 3: what did he see a thing? But I saw this
Speaker 3: black eight foot figure. He was like, I thought it
Speaker 3: was bigfoot, but it was black.
Speaker 2: He became a believer after that, didn't.
Speaker 3: He Yeah, it was you know one of the things
Speaker 3: he say, said with your friend. He goes, no, he
Speaker 3: didn't like talking about it. So it's kind of it's
Speaker 3: had traumatized over the thing. But yeah, he said, I
Speaker 3: don't know. I said, yeah, a few days like, oh,
Speaker 3: he just didn't like talking about it.
Speaker 2: Why do you think, Fritz, that there would be paranormal
Speaker 2: activity near the mound sites?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, these were kind of ceremonial sinners, and
Speaker 3: you know there's no burial up there. Nobody was ever
Speaker 3: burialed in one of these things. The Mound of Builders
Speaker 3: were practicing ancestral worship. So when I said there's people
Speaker 3: in the mounds, and there might be hundreds of people
Speaker 3: in these mounds. They would go to the mounds and pray,
Speaker 3: and they would pray for prosperity and health. But when
Speaker 3: they would go, they wouldn't be talking to a particular
Speaker 3: relative or anything like that. But it was a collective
Speaker 3: of the dead, and this collective of the dead, you know,
Speaker 3: would grant them, you know, prosperity, health, you know, different things.
Speaker 3: So the mounds were a portal that connected the living
Speaker 3: with the dead, and so you have that, and then
Speaker 3: we have course, you know, the story for me not
Speaker 3: that these spirits would be earth bound, which goes well
Speaker 3: with what would they have found within the burial mounds.
Speaker 3: It's very a few times is there any grave goods?
Speaker 3: Maybe an item or two, but generally there's not. And Jenny,
Speaker 3: you would associate grave goods with someone taking a trip
Speaker 3: to another land to you know, Valhalla or heaven or
Speaker 3: you know whatever that they would do. But these were
Speaker 3: earth bound spirits.
Speaker 2: Would you say that most mounds around this planet are haunted.
Speaker 3: Well, I couldn't tell you that, you know, I have
Speaker 3: my you know, I've been in the Ohio Valley and
Speaker 3: I can tell you those are. But I would guess that,
Speaker 3: you know, to some extent, if there's burials there, that
Speaker 3: they could be there now the later religions around eight
Speaker 3: hundred a d. Native American burial mounds. Possibly, I haven't
Speaker 3: heard it as much as what people experience in the
Speaker 3: Ohio Valley, So I can just kind of tell you
Speaker 3: what I'm familiar with.
Speaker 2: But in Ohio Valley, yes, what kind of other creatures
Speaker 2: forts have been spotted out at these places?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I talked to one fella and he
Speaker 3: he lives right by a cemetery that has a large
Speaker 3: burial mound, and there was an earthwork there and there
Speaker 3: was another verial mound that's destroyed, and he had cryptids
Speaker 3: that surrounded his car, and he sent me a drawing
Speaker 3: of it, and strange thing. They looked like giant hamsters.
Speaker 3: They don't look they don't look very menacing. There's a
Speaker 3: bunch of them, there's like thirty of them, and they
Speaker 3: surrounded his van. And I said, well, was it something
Speaker 3: you know, like rabbits or somebody like, No, No, it
Speaker 3: wasn't rabbits. It was you know, the weird looking things
Speaker 3: that he couldn't really described from any animal that you
Speaker 3: would find in the in the woods. And another fella
Speaker 3: that lives right there with a burial mount near his home.
Speaker 3: There was a cryptid that kind of looked like a
Speaker 3: giant lizard and had shovels for hands to burn it,
Speaker 3: shovels more like canow battles for arms. Of course, it
Speaker 3: was long like a lizard had, you know, Keith, and
Speaker 3: he described it as being gray and you could see
Speaker 3: all the veins and stuff going through it. And again
Speaker 3: it was like, well, this isn't anything you know that
Speaker 3: you know indigenous are around here right that it was
Speaker 3: terrifying to see. And these cryptids are kind of like fairies.
Speaker 3: And it is these entities can manifest into different things
Speaker 3: like whatever they want.
Speaker 2: To little tiny crusiers.
Speaker 3: Carny creatures, lizard looking things. I think they manifest in
Speaker 3: whatever they think is going to scare you. And so
Speaker 3: it could be anything that they want to manifest.
Speaker 2: As what's the what's their goal for us to get
Speaker 2: you out of there?
Speaker 3: I think so I think there's you know, when you
Speaker 3: consider how many of the burial mounds, I mean, Ohio
Speaker 3: had ten thousand burial mounds at one time. Wow, and
Speaker 3: now there's maybe one hundred and fifty. So they've had
Speaker 3: their civilization decimated by our population. And you know, another
Speaker 3: interesting fact of when you're talking about western West Virginia,
Speaker 3: southern Ohio, east central Indiana, where you're going to find
Speaker 3: a lot of the Hindas and geometric earthworks, Native Americans
Speaker 3: didn't live there. They were terrified of that area. They
Speaker 3: called the Kanawha River, which is where Point Pleasant is.
Speaker 3: As to the whole Mothman story, point well, the Shawnee
Speaker 3: called that the river of evil spirits.
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