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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back George Norrie with Fritz Zimmerman. Fritz, of course,

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Speaker 2: is an independent researcher, author of a number of books,

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Speaker 2: including The Nepheline Chronicles, The Encyclopedia of Ancient Giants in

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Speaker 2: North America, Mysteries of Ancient America in his latest Spook

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Speaker 2: Ancient America The Dark Side. He has spent twelve years

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Speaker 2: plus in the field of investigating hundreds of mound and

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Speaker 2: earthwork sites in the Ohio Ohio Valley for his travel

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Speaker 2: guide and here he is back on Coast to Coast.

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Speaker 2: Tell all, Fritz.

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Speaker 3: Hieraban, Hi, good to be with you tonight.

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Speaker 2: Seven hundred plus mounds. What does that look like?

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Speaker 3: That is twelve years of your life of just going

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Speaker 3: to mound sites. And you know, here in Indiana we

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Speaker 3: only have three mound and earthwork sites that are history

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Speaker 3: registered as historic sites, when there's eighty five. So a

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Speaker 3: lot of that was doing the Archaeological Survey of Indiana.

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Speaker 3: So that took that was about four hundred sites. And

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Speaker 3: then I was also in Ohio and West Virginia, Kentucky

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Speaker 3: and in southern Michigan and photographed those as well, so

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Speaker 3: very time consuming to do that. Many times we'd have

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Speaker 3: to go back to a site maybe two or three

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Speaker 3: times just to get permission to go on the land.

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Speaker 3: So they needed to be done. In Ohio, a lot

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Speaker 3: of the sites are address restricted, so I found those

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Speaker 3: and made those available, you know, for people to see firs.

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Speaker 2: These mounds are burial sites. How many bodies are in

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Speaker 2: there generally, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, it's kind of hard to say. You know, some

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Speaker 3: it would just be like one or two. You know.

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Speaker 3: Grave Creek had two main tombs, one lower and had

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Speaker 3: a man in it that was like over eight foot

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Speaker 3: and then a woman in an upper tomb. Great Creek

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Speaker 3: Mound is the largest in the Ohio Valley. It's seventy

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Speaker 3: foot in heights. But you know, with the limited excavations

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Speaker 3: they did, there's layers of ashes in there, which is

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Speaker 3: probably cremated remains of people. So while it would have

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Speaker 3: maybe two, you know, you would count on the outside

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Speaker 3: there might be hundreds of people that they're cremated remains

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Speaker 3: were in the burial mound as well.

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Speaker 2: How did they get the bodies into the mounds? Did

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Speaker 2: they just dig a hole? Drop it in or what.

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Speaker 3: Well, generally what it would happen, It would be over time.

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Speaker 3: It would start out as a ternal house in many cases,

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Speaker 3: and they would put the bodies in the ternal house,

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Speaker 3: so where they put the bones, they would probably leave

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Speaker 3: the body out and carry in feet would you know,

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Speaker 3: peck it down to the bones, and then they would

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Speaker 3: bundle those up and then they'd have this pause where

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Speaker 3: they'd have all these bones of ancestors, and then at

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Speaker 3: some point they would burn the turnal house down, cremate

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Speaker 3: their remains so the bone remains, and then they might

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Speaker 3: put a single burial there and then they would layer

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Speaker 3: over the top of that and then put another turnal

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Speaker 3: house on top of that and it starts to process again.

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Speaker 3: So over the course of time you would have layers. However,

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Speaker 3: there's others that they would put a tomb, like a

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Speaker 3: log tomb, and then they would just build over that

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Speaker 3: and that would be the mound, and so there was

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Speaker 3: nobody else in there, so over time they got larger.

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Speaker 3: I think like a grave prequel. It's the largest mound

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Speaker 3: that probably went up fast because we have a lower

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Speaker 3: tomb and an upper tomb, and I take it that

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Speaker 3: was kind of like the leader and his wife was

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Speaker 3: up in the upper tomb. So it kind of varies.

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Speaker 3: You know, sometimes they would build them all at once,

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Speaker 3: and then other times it was an accumulation over time

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Speaker 3: and adding burials as they went rus.

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Speaker 2: How old are the mounds.

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Speaker 3: The mounds in the Ohio Valley can date as early

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Speaker 3: as eight hundred BC, and they're going to go right

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Speaker 3: up to about five hundred BC, so it's some of

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Speaker 3: the oldest mounds in the nation. I know there's mounds

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Speaker 3: in a lot of places, but they're generally not that old.

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Speaker 3: When you're looking in the south, you know, those are

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Speaker 3: more Mississippian area era, so those are around eight hundred eighty.

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Speaker 3: But these are where the old old burial mounds. And

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Speaker 3: then the mounds in Ohio or in the Ohio Valley,

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Speaker 3: those are where you're finding your hinges and also your

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Speaker 3: geometric earthworks, and those are associated with the giants.

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Speaker 2: The giants who.

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Speaker 3: Well, all indications would say that these were the same

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Speaker 3: people called the Amorites, which were the one of the

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Speaker 3: tribes accounted giant tribes in the Bible. They were a

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Speaker 3: real tribe. They actually controlled Babylon from two thousand BC

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Speaker 3: to sixteen hundred BC, and kind of one of their

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Speaker 3: calling cards was advanced mathematics. Of that they knew pie

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Speaker 3: and square roots of numbers. They had the Zagarant theorem

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Speaker 3: of triangles a thousand years before the Thagron had them.

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Speaker 3: And we find all of those mathematical properties in the

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Speaker 3: building of the geometric earthworks in the Ohio Valley, including

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Speaker 3: patagara and triangles, which just got revealed at the Winchester

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Speaker 3: earth Works. It's a rectangular earthwork in Winchester, Indiana that

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Speaker 3: that was built using patagon and triangles.

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Speaker 2: What were they doing in the Ohio Valley, Fritz, all

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Speaker 2: the way from Bebylon, Well, it.

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Speaker 3: Was kind of they went there. The mounds in the

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Speaker 3: British Isles in England, and of course there's Stonehenge. They

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Speaker 3: have conical burial mounds that had either a moat or

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Speaker 3: moat ditch and earthwork around those. They were also building,

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Speaker 3: you know, hinges that are very similar to what we

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Speaker 3: find in the Ohio Valley. So there's a great similarity.

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Speaker 3: And those are known as the Beaker people, which is

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Speaker 3: what the archeologists would call them, but other researches said

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Speaker 3: that those were Amororites, those were Amorites that built those.

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Speaker 3: They came over here to get the copper out of

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Speaker 3: Isle Royal, which I'm sure you've had guests talk about that.

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Speaker 3: But there's five hundred thousand tons of copper that was

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Speaker 3: mined out of there, and certainly we have no account

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Speaker 3: of that. It's not found in burial mounds or it's

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Speaker 3: not found anywhere else. So it's like where did it go?

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Speaker 3: So being probably in the Middle Bronze Age that it

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Speaker 3: was going over into the Middle East and it was

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Speaker 3: used to make weapons over there. So I think they

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Speaker 3: I think commerce originally brought them over here, and then

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Speaker 3: I believe that around sixteen hundred BC they exited the

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Speaker 3: Biblical Lands because the Israelites were taking part of that

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Speaker 3: control of that you had the hit sites that we

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Speaker 3: know historically that they were making Emiright King's vassals, and

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Speaker 3: then we were playing tribute that they probably left. Some

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Speaker 3: were probably homesteaded in the British Isles, and I can

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Speaker 3: tell others just came there to the Ohio Valley.

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Speaker 2: Title of your book is called Ancient America The Dark Side,

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Speaker 2: but it's about paranormal activity out there. What kind of

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Speaker 2: activity is there?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, in the Book of Enoch, they talk

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Speaker 3: about the giants, and they say that the giants who

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Speaker 3: were produced from the spirits of flesh, when the fallen

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Speaker 3: angels mate it with the women, that they would be

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Speaker 3: called evil spirits on earth, and Earth shall be their dwelling.

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Speaker 3: So these people buried in the mound, the giants, they

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Speaker 3: are earth bound spirits. And there is hauntings associated with

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Speaker 3: many of the burial mound sites of shadow people. And

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Speaker 3: then I've witnessed that myself and cryptids UFOs being cited

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Speaker 3: at mound sites. And you know, it's kind of a

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Speaker 3: topic that I've known about for years because I had

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Speaker 3: my own paranormal experiences a different mound and earthwork sites.

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Speaker 3: So printing this book with some trepidation because I know

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Speaker 3: how big ghost hunting is out there, you know now,

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Speaker 3: and you know, it's kind of a scary proposition for

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Speaker 3: people going out there with mel meters and you know,

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Speaker 3: all this other stuff in sights, because it's really not

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Speaker 3: the kind of spirits that you want to conjure up.

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Speaker 3: If you're there and you see one, fine, but I

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Speaker 3: certainly wouldn't go and you know, try to irritate one

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Speaker 3: of them.

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Speaker 2: Tell Us about your paranormal experiences friends.

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Speaker 3: Well one, you know, I interviewed somebody and I'll follow

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Speaker 3: up on that. But I was up on top of

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Speaker 3: Fort Hill and that's in southern Ohio and Highland County.

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Speaker 3: This is a hilltop enclosure. It's a mile and a

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Speaker 3: half around and it's a four foot stone wall that

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Speaker 3: undulates like a great serpent around this thing, and it

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Speaker 3: accumulates with what looks to me like two serpent heads

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Speaker 3: coming together. And I was up at the gateway where

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Speaker 3: these you know, this gateway where these serpent heads come together,

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Speaker 3: and I was getting ready to go down that hill

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Speaker 3: and then there's a path and that'll take you down

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Speaker 3: your car about eight nine hundred foot and I was

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Speaker 3: getting ready to go. I'd taken my photos and out

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Speaker 3: of the corner of my eye, I saw something move

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Speaker 3: from left to right, and my glance over there, it's like,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure I saw something over here. About fifteen seconds

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Speaker 3: after that, there was a large black mass that was

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Speaker 3: about eight foot humanoid, but it was just like jet

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Speaker 3: black figure. But it went out of one tree and

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Speaker 3: it went about twenty foot and it was much larger

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Speaker 3: than this tree that it kind of went behind but

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Speaker 3: when it got to the tree, it just vanished. I

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Speaker 3: mean kind of like you was highting behind the tree,

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Speaker 3: but it was bigger than tree. But then you couldn't

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Speaker 3: see it. Well I saw that, Did I just see it?

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Speaker 3: And they always kind of question yourself when you see

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Speaker 3: something like that. It's like, did I believe to see that?

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Speaker 3: So I just kept looking at that tree that I

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Speaker 3: saw that thing go behind. And then it moved from

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Speaker 3: that tree and then back to the right again about

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Speaker 3: another twenty foot and I lost it dhind another tree.

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Speaker 3: Well by that time, it's like, okay, I saw that,

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Speaker 3: and I was up there by myself, so that was

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Speaker 3: a bit scary. So I scurried down the hill and

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Speaker 3: then got onto the path and I made my way down,

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Speaker 3: and interesting enough, I interviewed a fella that was up

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Speaker 3: there with a friend of his and he said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I said, I saw a shadow person up there. And

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Speaker 3: I said, where were you? And he goes, I was

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Speaker 3: up at the gate, you know where the go to

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Speaker 3: stone walls terminate. And I go, I know exactly where

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Speaker 3: you are. I said, was it over there to the right,

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Speaker 3: And he's like, yeah, it was just beyond the stone wall.

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Speaker 3: So they saw the exact same thing in the exact

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Speaker 3: same place. The buddy that he was with he thought

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Speaker 3: it was big foot and he was a complete non

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Speaker 3: believer in anything paranormal, and he really shook up over it.

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Speaker 3: During this guy that you know, we got down to

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Speaker 3: the car and because I didn't really say anything, and

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Speaker 3: I asked him because I wanted to make sure that

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Speaker 3: he saw what I saw. And he's like asking, It's like,

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Speaker 3: what did he see a thing? But I saw this

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Speaker 3: black eight foot figure. He was like, I thought it

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Speaker 3: was bigfoot, but it was black.

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Speaker 2: He became a believer after that, didn't.

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Speaker 3: He Yeah, it was you know one of the things

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Speaker 3: he say, said with your friend. He goes, no, he

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Speaker 3: didn't like talking about it. So it's kind of it's

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Speaker 3: had traumatized over the thing. But yeah, he said, I

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Speaker 3: don't know. I said, yeah, a few days like, oh,

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Speaker 3: he just didn't like talking about it.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think, Fritz, that there would be paranormal

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Speaker 2: activity near the mound sites?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, these were kind of ceremonial sinners, and

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Speaker 3: you know there's no burial up there. Nobody was ever

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Speaker 3: burialed in one of these things. The Mound of Builders

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Speaker 3: were practicing ancestral worship. So when I said there's people

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Speaker 3: in the mounds, and there might be hundreds of people

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Speaker 3: in these mounds. They would go to the mounds and pray,

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Speaker 3: and they would pray for prosperity and health. But when

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Speaker 3: they would go, they wouldn't be talking to a particular

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Speaker 3: relative or anything like that. But it was a collective

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Speaker 3: of the dead, and this collective of the dead, you know,

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Speaker 3: would grant them, you know, prosperity, health, you know, different things.

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Speaker 3: So the mounds were a portal that connected the living

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Speaker 3: with the dead, and so you have that, and then

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Speaker 3: we have course, you know, the story for me not

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Speaker 3: that these spirits would be earth bound, which goes well

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Speaker 3: with what would they have found within the burial mounds.

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Speaker 3: It's very a few times is there any grave goods?

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Speaker 3: Maybe an item or two, but generally there's not. And Jenny,

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Speaker 3: you would associate grave goods with someone taking a trip

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Speaker 3: to another land to you know, Valhalla or heaven or

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Speaker 3: you know whatever that they would do. But these were

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Speaker 3: earth bound spirits.

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Speaker 2: Would you say that most mounds around this planet are haunted.

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Speaker 3: Well, I couldn't tell you that, you know, I have

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Speaker 3: my you know, I've been in the Ohio Valley and

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Speaker 3: I can tell you those are. But I would guess that,

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Speaker 3: you know, to some extent, if there's burials there, that

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Speaker 3: they could be there now the later religions around eight

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Speaker 3: hundred a d. Native American burial mounds. Possibly, I haven't

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Speaker 3: heard it as much as what people experience in the

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Speaker 3: Ohio Valley, So I can just kind of tell you

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Speaker 3: what I'm familiar with.

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Speaker 2: But in Ohio Valley, yes, what kind of other creatures

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Speaker 2: forts have been spotted out at these places?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I talked to one fella and he

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Speaker 3: he lives right by a cemetery that has a large

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Speaker 3: burial mound, and there was an earthwork there and there

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Speaker 3: was another verial mound that's destroyed, and he had cryptids

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Speaker 3: that surrounded his car, and he sent me a drawing

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Speaker 3: of it, and strange thing. They looked like giant hamsters.

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Speaker 3: They don't look they don't look very menacing. There's a

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Speaker 3: bunch of them, there's like thirty of them, and they

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Speaker 3: surrounded his van. And I said, well, was it something

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Speaker 3: you know, like rabbits or somebody like, No, No, it

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Speaker 3: wasn't rabbits. It was you know, the weird looking things

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Speaker 3: that he couldn't really described from any animal that you

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Speaker 3: would find in the in the woods. And another fella

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Speaker 3: that lives right there with a burial mount near his home.

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Speaker 3: There was a cryptid that kind of looked like a

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Speaker 3: giant lizard and had shovels for hands to burn it,

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Speaker 3: shovels more like canow battles for arms. Of course, it

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Speaker 3: was long like a lizard had, you know, Keith, and

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Speaker 3: he described it as being gray and you could see

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Speaker 3: all the veins and stuff going through it. And again

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Speaker 3: it was like, well, this isn't anything you know that

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Speaker 3: you know indigenous are around here right that it was

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Speaker 3: terrifying to see. And these cryptids are kind of like fairies.

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Speaker 3: And it is these entities can manifest into different things

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Speaker 3: like whatever they want.

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Speaker 2: To little tiny crusiers.

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Speaker 3: Carny creatures, lizard looking things. I think they manifest in

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Speaker 3: whatever they think is going to scare you. And so

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Speaker 3: it could be anything that they want to manifest.

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Speaker 2: As what's the what's their goal for us to get

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Speaker 2: you out of there?

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Speaker 3: I think so I think there's you know, when you

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Speaker 3: consider how many of the burial mounds, I mean, Ohio

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Speaker 3: had ten thousand burial mounds at one time. Wow, and

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Speaker 3: now there's maybe one hundred and fifty. So they've had

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Speaker 3: their civilization decimated by our population. And you know, another

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Speaker 3: interesting fact of when you're talking about western West Virginia,

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Speaker 3: southern Ohio, east central Indiana, where you're going to find

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Speaker 3: a lot of the Hindas and geometric earthworks, Native Americans

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Speaker 3: didn't live there. They were terrified of that area. They

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Speaker 3: called the Kanawha River, which is where Point Pleasant is.

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Speaker 3: As to the whole Mothman story, point well, the Shawnee

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Speaker 3: called that the river of evil spirits.

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