WEBVTT - MICHAEL SYMON 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:12.520 Today, I've got award winning chef, restaurant tour, best selling author, 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:17.360 and TV personality Michael Simon. You're gonna hear Michael's great 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.560 stories about growing up in a food and football family, 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.160 how a grizzly wrestling injury changed the path of his life, 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:28.639 his days is an ultra competitive iron chef, and how 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:31.720 following his passion and trusting his gut has made him 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.640 one of America's most popular chefs. Well, Michael, I'm really 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:37.760 looking forward to this. I'm gonna have a blast. I 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.680 hope you do too. We're recording this at cocktail hour 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.800 where you are, so dinner is looming. You're sitting there 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.839 in your kitchen, so the obvious question is what are 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.520 you making for dinner tonight? You know what, It's funny. 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:52.440 We were going to have some people over for dinner 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.440 tonight and then we had a last minute change of plans. 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.480 And I'm in Long Island, um, which I am most 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.680 summer situations. So we're going to go there's a little 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:05.840 shower house called boss Wicks. We're gonna go out for 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:08.840 dinner tonight. I'm probably gonna get some grilled bobster and 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.840 I'll be very happy you made the same thing, Jedi 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.200 maybe made reservations and I were going to eat at 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:16.800 a bourbon distillery out here in Colorado. But I will 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.800 in your honor order some barbecue or some smoked meat 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.400 or something like that. I've felling you. I love it. Hey, 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.360 food was so important growing up in your house. Food 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:30.880 in sports, and we'll get into both of them, but 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.319 talk about just being a young kid when when great 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:37.039 food was being prepared, whether it was the Greek side 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:40.120 of the Sicilian side, you had it covered. And obviously 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.119 that spoke to you at a young age. Unlike my 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.440 my Irish English background, where we we didn't quite get 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.280 that adventurous in the kitchen. And my family, Chris, most 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.520 of my friends are good amount of my president Irish, 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.040 so needless to say, they ate at our house a lot. 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:59.600 Not the kids. But you know, my my mother, I 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.720 had a Sicilian mother and and food was just it 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:05.520 was a big deal in our house. You know. She 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.600 was to stay oh mom until I was in high school. Um, 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:11.959 and she cooked every single meal. Her mom was a 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.600 great cook. Actually, my Dance side of family two great cooks. Uh. 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:17.600 So we always we always ate at home. We gatingly 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:21.880 went out at dinner. Um. And but like what even 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.280 made me more kind of romantic by the whole thing 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.919 is like there were certain things my mom would cook 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.400 when it was when people were coming over or you know, 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.520 was celebratory or a holiday and and you know, so 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.680 those I remember like those of romans, and then I 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.520 remembered like the happiness that have brought those people like 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:44.720 when they came over. So it was it was a 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:47.760 big connect for me. And we always I mean we 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:50.760 had dinner at the kitchen table seven days a week. 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:56.359 So that was where for me as a kid, like 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:58.680 all the lessons were learned. You know, I was in sports, 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.960 my sister was in sports, but everything would get discussed 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:05.720 at that table nightly. Um, you know, whether it was 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.720 school or sports or what's going on in your life 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.320 for you know. So that was it wasn't only like 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.200 the where we ate, but it was it was also 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:19.119 the landing spot of our family on a daily basis. Yeah, 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:22.120 that's awesome. I mean, your grandparents are important to you. 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.560 Mine were very important to me, but food was not 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.080 important to them. So they might go Swanson's Dinners, chicken 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.280 pot pie, Saahly pound cake. I still loved them. My 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:33.440 grandmother introduced me to sports. That's the reason I have 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.040 the career I have. But food did not go hand 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.600 in hand with sports as it did in your family. 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:40.600 You were a family of athletes. I mean, I know 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.600 your uncle was Pete Duranko. If you're an old time 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:46.280 Notre Dame fan, you know that name. I'm a Broncos fan. 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:48.320 He was a legend with the Broncos. And get a 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:51.440 bunch of football players and athletes in the family. So, uh, 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.880 sports and food seems like they were kind of equally important. 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.640 Maybe yeah, they were huge, you know, like I uh 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.240 you My uncle Pete was obviously tremendous athlete, devils that 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.200 The Ranco side of the family, that Eastern European side 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.120 of the family was uh. I mean, there were just 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.280 a lot of great athletes in that side of the family. 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:15.040 My god, my grandpa was the oldest of eight boys, 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.120 um and he was a pipe fitter. You know, they 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:22.039 were they He grew up in Johnstown, Pennsylvania, you know, 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:26.160 Steel Town, but all eight boys terrific athletes. My grandfather 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.240 was a scratch golfer, both taught U sself out of 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.839 golf um and shot his age every year between when 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.719 he was sixty five and nineties six, shot his age 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.800 at least once a year. UM. So if the athletic 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.839 team was was pretty strong in my family, Michael, what 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.440 did the example of your grandfather mean to you as 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.320 a child. I mean, the lessons must have been too 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.880 numerous to name, But what what do you remember most 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.400 from from his example that you've lived with since then? Well, 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.000 you know, he was he was a giant, you know, 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.159 arguably the biggest influence on my life. You know, my 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.280 father worked at for a voter company and worked midnights, 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:08.000 so my dad basically worked seven days most weeks. And 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.960 I would spend weekends with my grandparents, um, with my 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:16.480 dad's mom and dad um, and so I was with 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:19.359 them almost as much as my parents when I was younger. 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.360 And and like from the food, from the food side 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.480 of things, my grandmother worked at Higbie's in downtown Cleveland. 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:29.080 So close to Higbie's in downtown was the West Side Market. 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:34.560 So I would go with my grandparents on like Friday night, Saturday, uh, 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.440 like early afternoon, we would go to the West Side Market. 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.920 We'd buy all the food for dinner that night. Then 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.760 we pick up my grandmother at Higbee's and then we 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:44.719 drive home and they would start cooking. So from a 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.279 food aspect um, it was. It was a tremendous influence. 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.440 And then my my grandfather lived a hundred and three. 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:52.320 He just passed away a couple of years ago, and 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:56.880 he was healthy basically the whole time, of mind and body, 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:01.040 which was incredibly incredible. And like his line he's I 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:03.520 used always say, Pep, what's your secrets? Like, always take 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:08.479 the stairs? That was it. He goes elevators, escalator that 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.040 always take this? Do you always take the stairs? Always 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.800 take the stairs? So like you, I travel a lot 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.400 and when I fly in the Vegas like and I 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:19.839 gotta get up and it's like, you know, it's like 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:25.279 that really long stairwell up to the terminal, and I like, 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.440 no matter how much fun you about my shoulders, I'm like, God, damnit, 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:30.200 here we go. Time to take this. And I thought, 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:31.880 you got some people stay in the thirty floor of 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:33.760 the hotel. You're taking the stairs. Come on, there's a 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.800 limit to Grandpa's message. I'm in a hotel, I take 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:41.080 the elevator. I think there's few things in life more 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.440 precious than the love of a grandmother. What about your 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.479 grandmother that you remember most finely, you do you learn 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.840 the most from Well, both of them were great, you know. 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:54.520 Um my mother's um, my grandmother and my mom's side 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:59.719 was from sicily. Um. She was very tough, um, I 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:03.560 mean loving but very strict, very tough, um but like 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:10.960 the ultimate perfectionist um in insane cook. Uh but like 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.360 when their house, I can't even explain you how clean 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:18.560 their house was like it was like everything was in 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.720 its place all the time. I mean it was insane. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.360 So like I think attention to detail like kind of things, 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:30.360 I really that was from her for certain. Um. And 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.640 my my dad's mom. My grandfather was the oldest of 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.120 eight boys, my grandmother was the youngest of twelve. So 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:41.360 they came from like, you know, separate worlds in that sense. Um. 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.920 But my my grandmother was always like just one of 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:49.000 those people that was uh like incredibly kind and warm. 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:53.320 Like I never heard her say a bad thing about 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.680 like a single human. I I just never never crossed 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.640 her lips. Like she just never had anything bad. She 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:05.200 could find the good in anything. She was the ultimate optimist. Um. 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.240 And and so I think I really learned, you know, 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.320 optimism and the glass is always you know, half full, 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:15.520 not had half empty, uh from her. And also that 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.680 side of the family, she was the Duranko. So the 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:24.400 love of sports comes really from I mean she, my 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.600 grandmother was the biggest die heard football fan you had ever. 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:32.400 I mean it was insanity, and she could rattle off 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.480 every stat on every team like it was insane. And 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.240 her sisters were like they were all like that, you know. 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.880 So I learned a lot about sports. I mean I 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:46.040 learned from my dad and my grandparents, But really the 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:49.679 person that really taught me, like about like the first 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:51.439 thing that I learned my dad. The first thing he 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.080 always did. The first thing I learned how to read 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.240 was the sports page, Like here's how you read the 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.400 sports page. And but the person that really taught me 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.760 how to like follow stats and like adore the statistics 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.240 of sports was my grandmother. I cannot believe we have 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.079 that exactly in common. My parents went out into sports 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.000 at all. We got dropped up in my grandparents house. 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.600 My mom uh couldn't have cared less. But her mother 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.319 sat in the backyard in a folding chair with the 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:20.680 transistor radio and a baseball scorebook and scored every single 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:26.120 Cubs games. So I I learned to embrace sports, stats 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.120 and sports and that's why I wanted to do this 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.560 for a living. Was listening to games on the radio 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:32.800 with my grandmother. So I will never forget that that 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:37.119 gift that she gave me, the gift of sports fandom. Hey, 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.360 football and food seem to go together, Michael, you're a 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.800 big fan of both. You're uniquely qualified to talk about it. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.080 But but why is that? And what we're football Saturdays 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.040 and Sundays like for you growing up? And what are 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.640 they like now? Um? You know is a cute We're 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:55.160 a very kind of a slightly divided family, um in 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.160 sports because I had you know, my uncle's played for 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:00.920 Notre Dame and so like half family was a Notre 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:05.480 Dame family and half the family was Ohio State family. Um. 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.960 And then, like it took me a long time I 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:10.920 think to kind of pick aside. I just you know, 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:12.559 when I was younger and then even in high school, 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.120 cheered for both teams um as. And then as I 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.280 got older, I got more and more buck guy, I 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:22.480 favored the Buckeyes more and more. Um. But you know, 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:24.199 there was a moment where I thought I was like 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.320 I thought about I wanted to go to Notre Dame 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.600 to wrestle, not to play football. But uh, you know 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:34.760 so I I really was in love with the whole 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.720 Notre Dame a lord for a long time. But but 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.440 I'm a hardcore buck I fan now. And then the 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.880 food came in, Like me would we usually my parents 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:46.880 house is usually where we watched all the sports, so 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.760 it was there was always getting cooked. We were always 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.200 around the table. And then as I got older and 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.960 got season tickets and things of that to the Browns games, 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.480 Like you know, tailgating was always a huge thing for 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.439 us at the games. Well, I have ex erience to 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.559 Michael simon cooking in regard to football and that backdrop. 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.959 Uh and I have to tell you that you served 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.439 up some great food in Tallahassee, Florida. But kind of 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.360 a cross promotion when you were co hosted the chew 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.280 we were doing game Day. You were there and and 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:16.400 smeat was coming off the grill was coming up to 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.040 the set. But all of it, all of it was 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.840 going to Desmond Howard from Cleveland kirk Herb Street X 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.360 Ohio state quarterback. I think I had to say, uh, 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:27.599 you know, Michael could yeah, you know when when you 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:28.880 get a chance, you know, when you when you when 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:31.040 you're done serve in the Ohio Superstars, Can I just 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:33.199 get a little play of something over here? Eventually got 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:40.559 around to it. But I haven't forgotten that, I meanfessible, 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:45.440 I mean I I mean I don't remember that is 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.000 like like desn't I graduated from high school at the 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.400 same time, you know, so like I've known that, Like 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.199 he played football. I like say bad words to high 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.440 school that I went to. In high school my senior 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.400 there was our tenth straight national title and seventeenth straight 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:03.079 state title. So it was the predominant wrestling program in 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.480 the country. And we had a very good football team too, 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.280 as the Desmond But we used to beat Saint Joe's 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:13.280 my senior year when they had des An Gerbach. You know. So, 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.160 I mean Desmond was in high school and running back, 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.200 which I know you know all this, you know, but 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.040 he was an elite running back and then when he 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.440 went to Michigan, it was when he became the receiver. Um. 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:26.000 So you know, we had a running back at our 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.560 school named Chris Williams, who was probably the best running 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:31.360 back in the state of Ohio at the time, followed 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.480 by Desmond, so there's always a lot of competition between 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.679 those two. And then at college des went to to 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.280 receiver obviously at Michigan and did the Heisman pose against 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:41.920 Ohio State. I don't even need to get in all 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.320 of that, you know. So he's been uh, you know 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.040 when we were in high school. My high school got 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:49.440 to break his heart a lot. Once he went to college, 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:54.240 he just dripped my heart out, like, well, I want 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.520 to talk about your sports background. You mentioned Sant Edwards 0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:00.560 in Cleveland Wrestling Dynasty. To say the least, you were 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:02.080 a wrestour. I know you played a lot of sports, 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.560 but wrestling seemed to connect with you. There's a dude 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:06.840 in front of you, go attack him and take him down, 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.480 and that seemed to make sense to to a young 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.040 Michael Simon. I did a show called Scholastic Sports America. 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.280 We went to St Edge and profiled that wrestling program, 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.199 you know, mid eight, right around when you were there. 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:18.679 I don't know if we crossed paths or if you 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:20.719 were on that team, but we covered that team and 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:23.000 if you you got a chance to wrestle for them, 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.720 you were legit. And I know you thought that maybe 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.000 that was gonna be your path to college and who 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:31.920 knows where before kind of food took over. But that 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:36.240 wrestling career and it's it's pretty grizzly. Describe it as 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:40.119 much as you want to about what sort of detoured 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:42.760 that when I wrestled with saying as our coach was 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.280 a name named a gentleman by the name of Howard 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.559 Ferguson who had a tremendous influence on my life. He 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.880 passed away two years after and graduated, and he also 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.160 wrote a book called The Edge, which you know, a 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.480 lot of young athletes. He put together a book called 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.960 The Edge, which a lot of young athletes looked at 0:13:57.960 --> 0:13:59.880 it that time. He was a tremendous influence on my 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:04.920 and um, you know, basically, if you went to St. Adds, 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.000 you got a full ride to college. I mean that's 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:09.720 just if if you were good enough to make the 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:11.960 Adds team, you you went to college for free. That 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:16.280 was basically how it worked. And I was a good wrestler. 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:21.560 You know, Um my junior year in a rustle off 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:26.160 in the room, Um, I posted out on a cradle 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.800 and my my arm just snapped. So like the basically 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:32.560 what Joe Tiesman to do his leg. I did to 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:34.960 my arm. That's the easiest way, man. That's so that's 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.640 called a compound fracture. That means bone through skin, right, 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.680 so like if you form, there's like a little zipper 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.200 there still, but you have the two bones coming out. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.120 The one compounded fracture that was actually been good break. 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:53.000 The other break one chattered and I dislocated my elbow 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.280 all in like a fell swoop. So and it was 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.160 in a match. Obviously, the match stopped it from In 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.000 the hospital, I had a got I got put on 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:05.640 a plate and fourteen screws in my arm. So you know, 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.560 I've been wrestling since I've been six, you know, so 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.720 it was just a way of life for me. And 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:16.160 and the guy that did my surgery was a very 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.080 famous surgeon who used to do all the Browns at 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.160 the time. And you know, he said, you're probably the 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:23.600 chances of you wrestling again in high school are very rare. 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.320 It's about halfway through my junior year. Now. Again, my 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.400 dad was I come from a sports family. My father 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.920 worked at Ford, the tough blue collar guy, as was 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.240 my grandfather and stuff. So I'm like, well, you know, 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:40.200 so I had the cast on for about six months 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.240 and I get the cast off, and you know, I started. 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.680 I was like that it doesn't you know. I started 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.560 lifting again lightly and working out, and I ran when 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:51.040 I had the cast, I don't all that kind of stuff, 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.160 and and I said that it feels pretty good, you know, 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:59.040 and he goes, well, you know, start practicing a little 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.040 bit with some of your buddies. See how it feels, 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.120 you know. Don't tell your mother. I'm I'm I'm practicing 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:06.840 with some of my buddies. About two months before the 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.600 season starts, and I wake up one morning and and 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.800 my dad were midnight. So typically when I was going 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.640 to school in the morning, he was getting home from 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.520 work for the most part, you know, so I'd like 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.200 say hi to him. I go to school, you know. 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.760 He then he would sleep. So I wait, I come downstairs. 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.320 I'm like, damn, my arm feels really weird. He goes, 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:30.760 let me look at it. I didn't really look at it. 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:32.640 I was still kind of like half away, and my 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.280 form like, instead of being this thing, was like this thing. 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.280 And he's like, oh, shoot, uh, you know, like I'm 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.480 gonna pick you up after school before I go to work. 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:43.840 We'll go see Bell who was the doctor. We'll see. 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:48.560 So I had broken the plate in the wow, so 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.400 they had to go in rebreak a researchly replayed, and 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.320 then I was in a cast for a year and 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:58.960 six months. So basically over the whole tenor of the thing, 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.520 I was in a cast for about two years. Um, 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.960 And you know, we're a middle class family. My sister 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.200 was an elite gymnast, you know, an Olympic hopeful gymnast. 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.160 And I was a wrestler, you know. My my dad 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:18.160 I thought we'd both get full rise to college. And um, 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.120 so I'm like, well, I gotta I gotta get a job. 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.280 So I started working in restaurants. My buddy's dad on 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:25.159 a restaurant. I started working in restaurants when I was 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:30.200 like sixteen, um, sixteen, seventeen, and just fell in love 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.520 with the business. Now was before Food Network and all 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.719 that kind of stuff. And I wasn't a great student. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.240 You know, Um, do you re select on that though? 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.120 I mean, listen, I've talked to so many athletes whose 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.320 careers have ended out on their terms and it's a heartbreak, 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.080 I mean identity. And then but then if you reflect back, 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.520 now that the way the universe kind of serves up 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:53.640 these plot twists. Who knows if you're sitting there where 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.800 you are now, had you gone to college interrestling scholarship. 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:58.879 When I told my father wanted to go to culinary school, 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.959 He's like, no, no, your grandfather was a tradesman. You know, 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.520 Like you're not, You're You're you're going to get an education, 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:10.439 you know. So um. I went to Cleveland State for 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:16.880 a semester and I got a point to point Lutarski 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:22.239 almost of Lutarski GP, and I remember him going like, 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.239 how did you get a point to? And like I 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:26.680 just didn't want to be there. At the end of 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:28.680 the day, I'm like, I got a point too because 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.080 I literally didn't go to a single class. I never 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.600 attended a single class, and I got that's how I 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:36.399 get a point to in college. It's it's it's not 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:38.600 easy to do. But if you never go to a 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:40.520 single class, I mean, but I want I want to 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:42.480 go back to that decision because one of my favorite 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:44.520 topics is young people trying to forge their own path 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.200 and listen to their gut in their heart. Because even 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.479 though people who love you and who have more wisdom 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:56.040 than you give you advice, it doesn't necessarily mean that 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.160 they know what is best for you and your inner 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.000 voice told you something else, and and you follow that 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.160 direction to see I had. I think it's powerful because 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:09.719 so many young people struggle with that. You know, I 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.520 was very fortunately I flunked out of college. Obviously, I 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:15.920 was still working in restaurants. I still loved it. And 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.440 you know, my dad is like he shrunk a little now, 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.119 but he was like six four and my mother's about 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:26.360 four eleven. But my mother's and if you come from 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.760 like that family, you understand it a little bit. So 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.560 everyone no one's afraid of my dad really, and everyone's 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.720 toetrified up my mom. You know, she wielded the hammer, 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.560 so she had had enough and she's like he's going 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.600 to culinaries. Listen with the discussions over like it was 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:46.160 like he's and you know, and I went to see 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.040 I A and I graduated top of my class and 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:52.439 you know, and like it just worked in for my brain, 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.960 like I'm a d D. So the restaurant business, I 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:58.720 think that there's probably a lot of chefs. If you 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:04.560 did a you know, a test, like chefs that have 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.960 attention deficit, I'll bet you be like you threw that 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.760 out there casually, top of your class. C I. A 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:12.760 is not the central ATTENTIONCE agent if you don't know, 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.399 it killing every intitude of America. And it's kind of 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:19.960 like the Oxford or the Harvard for cooking, and and 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.719 to go in there after you struggle in college and 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:26.280 do that well. I mean, first of all, it must 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:29.560 have been thrilling to connect with something that you found. 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:31.720 I don't know if it was easy, but it seemed 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:33.760 much more natural to and then tell me what that 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.280 was like when that that that light bulb came on 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:40.080 you said, this is for me, I got a text. 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.720 It was easy for me. It was the first time 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:46.280 I ever went to school. Of like wrestling was easy 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:50.200 for me, sports were easy for me. School was not 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.080 easy for me. My sister was a graduate, like a 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.639 four four, you know, like school was easy for her. 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.880 It was not easy for me. I hated it. I 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.240 didn't dwell on it, and I just didn't like it, 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:04.959 you know, quite frankly. I like the social aspect of it, 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.679 but I didn't like the I didn't love going to school. 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:13.840 And I went to culinary school and I immediately loved it, 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:18.440 like just loved it and everything made sense, Everything clicked. 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.880 You know, it just was it was easy for me. 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:26.600 And and you know mainly because like sports that I 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.560 did okay, and it just it was enjoyable. Like I 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:34.000 loved doing it. You know. It's it's like television. I 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:35.959 love doing it and I never feel like I can 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.080 go over work ever, you know, so like when I'm 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:41.359 at the restaurants or I'm on TV, it just doesn't 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.679 feel like work to me. That's beautiful. That that is 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.240 That's the secret to happiness, right then. You know, I 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:49.760 love what you do, and I think that what's also 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:54.119 impressed me about you is you've pivoted and you've reinvented 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:56.760 and reinventioned. Pivoting is one of my favorite topics. Did 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.719 a Whole Pot episode our mutual friend Clinton Kelly, your 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:01.960 former co host on The Chew, and Eddie George, a 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:05.800 Buckeye both told their stories about how they dramatically pivoted 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:08.480 in life and found a new passion. And you did 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:12.760 that with TV. Yeah, you know, like still chefs still 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:17.080 have the restaurants, still all that, but it TV, like 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.800 cooking came became relatively natural to me, like you know, 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:27.600 in in um in ninety eight, I want an award 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:29.600 from Food and Wine magazine where every year they named 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:32.560 the top best young chefs in America. So that's when 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.280 I was young and I won that award. So they 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.440 had me Food Network had just started in they had 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:40.200 me out as a guest of the show called Sara Malton. 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:43.640 You know, I had a blast that The ratings were 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:45.400 I guess good and not a lot of people watching 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:48.080 the number back then, and um, then I was on 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:50.080 again and again and again and again. And then that 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:51.800 same year they asked me to host a show called 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:55.200 The Melting Pot and I did that for two hundred 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:59.320 episodes and um, and then it just just continued since then. 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:02.399 And you know, um, you know it's for me. It's funny. 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:08.600 It's like I often think about like pivotal moments in 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:14.680 my life and and like and two Like you would say, oh, well, 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:17.119 breaking your arm got you into cooking, that was like 0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:20.480 the aha moment. But really I think what changed a 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:23.320 lot for me is when I broke my arm and 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:28.040 Ford allowed me to coach and I coached the freshman 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:32.080 and I also coached uh two other teams the year 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:35.879 after that that we're you know, like graders and and 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:41.480 teaching and and working with these kids, and like getting 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:44.800 them to a certain level was like really fulfilling for me. 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:49.080 And what I quickly learned as I you know, I 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:51.040 went from a you know, a line cook to a 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:53.760 sous chef to an executive chef to an owner is 0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:57.560 to to have a successful restaurant, it's you have to 0:23:57.560 --> 0:23:59.080 be able to cook, obviously, but you have to be 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:03.639 able to teach. Um. And so that just clicked in 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:06.600 my brain. And then when I'm on television, like the 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:09.240 one thing that I pride myself in the most is, 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:12.359 you know, most people that watch our shows, whether it's 0:24:12.359 --> 0:24:14.800 Simon's Dinners were Doing in Our Backyard or the new 0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:19.520 show I'm Doing Barbecue USA. Um, Like when I when 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:23.040 you like read whatever on social like they always say 0:24:23.119 --> 0:24:25.320 I learned so much from his shows. And that makes 0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:29.800 me so happy because you know, obviously, at the end 0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:31.439 of the day, we need to entertain, Like it's our 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:35.320 job to entertain the people watching. But if if I 0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:38.560 could give them a skill, a life skill, or they 0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:41.760 could learn like one thing two things, uh, during one 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:44.880 of those shows, Like that's when I feel like as 0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:47.440 a chef or a person or a teacher or a 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:50.560 TV personality, Like that's what I feel like for me personally, 0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:54.600 I've succeeded. Yeah, that's a wonderful side of it. Another 0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:56.640 side of it is the competitive side. And we talked 0:24:56.640 --> 0:24:58.800 about how ultra competitive you are. So you go on 0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:02.439 Iron Chef, which is the g cooking competition show. So 0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:05.480 many sprang from that, but it was also like it 0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:08.080 was kind of like the m M A of cooking. 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:10.679 You guys were built up like like athletes. You had 0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:12.679 these big entrances. You came out and then it was like, 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:17.240 I mean, killer, be killed, you're making food. But something 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:20.000 about that competitive part just connected. But you when you 0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:22.480 kicked as on the show, you almost never lost those 0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:24.560 head to head battles. I mean, what was it about 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:30.000 that that if? So, they did a Next Iron Chief 0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:32.560 Like they did a first run of Iron Chefs where 0:25:32.560 --> 0:25:34.600 they had three Iron Chefs and then they decided they 0:25:34.640 --> 0:25:38.159 needed to add you know, Aron chefs, so they the 0:25:38.200 --> 0:25:40.640 next season the first season they did the Next Iron 0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:43.080 Chef and they were a ton of us competing for 0:25:43.160 --> 0:25:46.040 the spot. Like time elite chefs around America. I've won 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:49.960 that and I became an Iron Chef and um, but 0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:53.400 for me, like it got me right back into wrestling mode. 0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:57.840 I'm like, let's go. Like when when Iron Chef was started, 0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:00.919 like it was like I'd look over be versus them, 0:26:01.119 --> 0:26:03.080 let's go. But that's not the same thing as go 0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:05.240 as trying to, you know, break a guy down and 0:26:05.280 --> 0:26:08.000 pan him. I mean, how is working with food and 0:26:08.280 --> 0:26:12.080 how is it the same thing? Because it's like, like 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:15.920 it's interesting, Like Iron Chef is interesting in the sense 0:26:15.920 --> 0:26:18.000 where a lot of the people were cooking against people 0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:19.320 that we were friends with them, we know, one in 0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:22.000 the business forever, and they would come on that show 0:26:22.800 --> 0:26:29.600 and they wanted to kill you, like they knew that 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:32.679 if they could beat one of us, it was a 0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:38.199 big feather in their cap, you know. So you know, 0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:43.159 I'm pretty like you know, people that know me, like, 0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:45.240 you know, I like that fun, I like them laugh 0:26:45.480 --> 0:26:47.680 like them the time. I like, you know, but I'm 0:26:47.720 --> 0:26:50.119 also very competitive, Like that's the other side of it. 0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:51.960 So like the first couple after the first couple of 0:26:52.000 --> 0:26:53.919 years I did Iron Chef, Like I remember when I 0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:55.640 went from Iron Chef to The Chew, Like when people 0:26:55.640 --> 0:26:57.840 started watching The Chewo, They're like, oh, he's really nice. 0:26:57.920 --> 0:26:59.920 We never knew he was really nice, like because I 0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:03.120 was just like we're going. But when you say kill, 0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:04.919 I mean, look, what what do you You can't like 0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:07.440 reach over and dump a bucket, assault in their food, 0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:09.720 you try to get in their head? Are you trying? 0:27:10.119 --> 0:27:13.600 Does the trash talk mental combat work and that kind 0:27:13.600 --> 0:27:17.000 of a thing is some trash talk, you know, but 0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:20.200 there's also like, you know, one thing about the culinary 0:27:20.240 --> 0:27:23.480 world is it's big, but it's very small. So when 0:27:23.480 --> 0:27:27.679 you're going against somebody, you know what they're capable of. 0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:31.600 You know, like this ingredient is going to favor them. 0:27:31.760 --> 0:27:34.080 You know, you know all those things. So you just 0:27:34.280 --> 0:27:37.320 have to bring You have to bring your a game 0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:40.800 for a straight hour and you can't pick up. So 0:27:41.040 --> 0:27:43.640 like if I like over there like trying to take 0:27:43.680 --> 0:27:46.600 the person down, know, but like I do know that 0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:51.040 for an hour, I need to be perfect, you know, 0:27:51.240 --> 0:27:53.920 and so that it becomes more of a competition with 0:27:53.960 --> 0:27:58.159 myself at that point. Um, but I know if I 0:27:58.200 --> 0:28:03.600 could challenge myself enough, then I'm gonna win, you know. 0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:06.119 And and not that I understand more when you were 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:09.800 youre ultru competitive against your own standard, which I talked about. 0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:13.000 That makes sense to me more than trying to like 0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:15.840 beat the ship out of the guy cooking food next 0:28:15.840 --> 0:28:18.119 to you. I know, that's the point of a competition show, 0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:24.080 Like I just want to win. Like so, like it's 0:28:24.960 --> 0:28:27.159 lot when you lost the rare loss where you gutted? 0:28:27.240 --> 0:28:31.960 Were you devastated? I you know, I'm um, as my 0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:35.120 friends like to tell me, they're like, you lose with 0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:38.760 such grace, but man, when you win, you are the 0:28:41.240 --> 0:28:43.680 So I was like, and I mean it was kind 0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:48.360 of like, you know, wrestling in that really elite program 0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:51.240 for being involved with that on the program for such 0:28:51.240 --> 0:28:56.000 a long time at St. Edwards. If you lost and 0:28:56.120 --> 0:29:03.200 you didn't lose, you know, graciously, Ford would have ripped 0:29:03.200 --> 0:29:07.640 our hearts out. I mean, like you lost, you one up, 0:29:07.640 --> 0:29:10.000 you shook the person's hand, you shook the coach's hand. 0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:12.280 You know, if you want to be upset, you do 0:29:12.360 --> 0:29:15.640 it off the map, like you need to carry yourself 0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:19.000 a certain way. So um, you know that has stuck 0:29:19.080 --> 0:29:22.800 with me most of my life. But I do Like yesterday, 0:29:22.080 --> 0:29:27.360 I uh, playing eye golfed and we get to the 0:29:27.400 --> 0:29:32.040 eighteenth hole and we pay on Birdie's and you know 0:29:32.120 --> 0:29:35.960 we played we played like front back total with automatic presses, 0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:38.720 but we also pay on birdie's and sandies, So there's like, 0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:42.240 so I down, he's got a birdie. I don't have 0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:45.200 a birdie on the front night we only can play nine. Um, 0:29:45.240 --> 0:29:46.880 he's got a birdie. I don't have a birdie on 0:29:46.880 --> 0:29:53.280 the front nine. And we're even on the match. Um, 0:29:53.320 --> 0:29:55.680 so you know, we get to the last hole two 0:29:55.680 --> 0:30:01.360 part five, I birdie, I whin whole, I buried the whole, 0:30:01.440 --> 0:30:07.040 and I get a sandy, so that by the time 0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:09.600 it was over, I was And he's everybody as competitive 0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:11.440 as me. And we get off the thing and he 0:30:11.520 --> 0:30:13.760 just looks at me, and I'm like, I just felt 0:30:13.800 --> 0:30:18.320 like this three bing three point all three point. You're 0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:19.880 like a lot of people. I know you're you're a 0:30:19.920 --> 0:30:23.200 good loser, but you're a bad winner. But I love 0:30:23.280 --> 0:30:26.120 I love the power of sports. You've referenced the influence 0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:28.520 of your coach a few times already and the lessons 0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:31.880 I it's a powerful thing that the people that haven't 0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:34.080 been involved in sports don't fully understand. But I can 0:30:34.120 --> 0:30:36.040 tell when you keep talking about your wrestling coach and 0:30:36.480 --> 0:30:38.360 then the number of ways that he influenced you and 0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:40.160 the lessons you took from him that you bring back 0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:42.680 and all kinds of things, whether it's cooking, I'm sure 0:30:42.720 --> 0:30:45.880 in the business world and anything else. So um that 0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:48.920 that's very cool for you to express that all all 0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:53.040 the meals you've created, sir, whether it's on a competition 0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:55.640 show or just for a couple of guests, is there 0:30:55.720 --> 0:31:00.360 one that stands out where you go, Everything was per picked, 0:31:00.960 --> 0:31:03.720 nothing could have been improved upon, nothing could be better, 0:31:04.080 --> 0:31:09.280 and that you're most proud of. Yeah, one dish or 0:31:09.280 --> 0:31:12.880 one meal competition. It was so we used to do 0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:16.480 these holiday battles, um iron chef Hollidy battles were it 0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:19.760 was like iron chefs or iron chefs, and Bobby and 0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:21.760 I would never really compete against each other because of 0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:24.560 our friendship. We just didn't, you know, we compete enough 0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:26.960 like in Gulf and everything else. So we're like, we 0:31:26.960 --> 0:31:28.880 weren't going to do it on TV. So we him 0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:30.720 and I were always partners. It was always Bobby and 0:31:30.760 --> 0:31:34.480 I versus whoever, and we were going against Alex Guana 0:31:34.520 --> 0:31:40.520 Shelley and m Jefferies carrying and it was a Thanksgiving 0:31:40.560 --> 0:31:48.440 battle and the uh I made so so my Italian 0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:50.959 herritage that you know, a dish that I grew up 0:31:50.960 --> 0:31:53.120 with this porquetta where you take the you know, the 0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:57.000 belly of the pork and you roll it and cook 0:31:57.040 --> 0:32:03.680 it very slow and crystal skin. And and so Bobby 0:32:03.680 --> 0:32:05.280 and I would when we would do any of these 0:32:05.280 --> 0:32:07.920 things together, we look at the altar, you know, and 0:32:08.280 --> 0:32:10.120 we'd like grab ingredients and you'd be like, what do 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:11.480 you want? What do you want? What do you like? 0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:13.560 Like we would just work what we're gonna make, and 0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:15.800 I'm like, I'll take the turkey and two sides like, Okay, 0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:21.360 I got this, and I I'm I worked for a 0:32:21.360 --> 0:32:22.920 butcher for a long time, so I'm very good at 0:32:23.040 --> 0:32:25.680 butchering me. So I like broke down the whole turkey 0:32:25.720 --> 0:32:30.040 and I rolled it into itself and made a poor 0:32:30.080 --> 0:32:32.480 quetta out of turkey and we called it a torquetta 0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:36.760 and um, and it was lights out and like it 0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:43.400 haunts Alex Wanna Shelley like like if someone brings up 0:32:44.200 --> 0:32:49.280 like anything on uh, you know, your worst moment on 0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:55.160 Iron Ship, It'll just say, like fucking turkatta any more, 0:32:55.360 --> 0:33:01.760 because that's it. And so, because we're also competitive with 0:33:01.800 --> 0:33:06.360 each other, that one like really sticks in my mind, 0:33:06.680 --> 0:33:11.920 um quite a bit. Uh. And so I was, what 0:33:12.000 --> 0:33:16.280 about the flip side. Man, they're not all amazing successes. 0:33:16.320 --> 0:33:18.240 I mean, is there anything you cooked where you tasted 0:33:18.240 --> 0:33:19.760 it afterwards? I don't care if it's on a cooking 0:33:19.800 --> 0:33:22.240 show or at home. And just said, wait a minute, 0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:24.320 this is awful, Like there's no way that a dude 0:33:24.400 --> 0:33:27.000 went to ci A top of class and one James 0:33:27.000 --> 0:33:29.200 Beard and all these other awards could possibly have made 0:33:29.200 --> 0:33:32.840 this and it just goes right in the trash can. 0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:35.160 So well, it didn't go in the trash can because 0:33:35.200 --> 0:33:38.080 I was so like certain in my mind that the 0:33:38.160 --> 0:33:41.600 dish would work that I just I like forced the 0:33:41.720 --> 0:33:44.760 issue a little bit. So we were opening our first restaurant, 0:33:44.760 --> 0:33:53.720 Lola in and you know, Liz designs the restaurant, runs 0:33:53.720 --> 0:33:55.800 the front of the house, does the beverage programs, and 0:33:55.800 --> 0:33:58.680 you know I do the food. So this is so 0:33:59.280 --> 0:34:02.360 and so she's like, you know, I had run to 0:34:02.400 --> 0:34:06.800 that point very Italian or Mediterranean based restaurants prior to 0:34:06.880 --> 0:34:09.360 opening Lola, And she's like, what are you gonna do? 0:34:09.400 --> 0:34:11.239 And We're gonna do Italian Like we were talking about 0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:15.160 it like now I'm like, you know, there's just a 0:34:15.200 --> 0:34:17.759 lot of Italian here in the city and like, I 0:34:17.760 --> 0:34:21.080 want to do something different and I'm gonna do Midwestern 0:34:21.160 --> 0:34:24.120 food And she's like, what does what does that? What 0:34:24.200 --> 0:34:26.320 does that even mean? I'm like, I'm not a d 0:34:27.239 --> 0:34:31.279 here yet, but just be a second. So, you know, 0:34:31.400 --> 0:34:33.080 at the time, in my mind, would have meant was 0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:35.160 like I was gonna work with farmers within the area. 0:34:35.200 --> 0:34:37.480 This is before farming table was like a thing so 0:34:37.560 --> 0:34:39.960 much so we're gonna work with local farmers and we're 0:34:39.960 --> 0:34:46.280 gonna um enhanced dishes that like kind of made Cleveland 0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:49.040 the food talent that it is, but we're gonna cheff 0:34:49.120 --> 0:34:51.640 them up for you know. So like we did um 0:34:51.760 --> 0:34:56.200 Like probably the most the dish that kind of got 0:34:56.239 --> 0:34:58.799 the most pressed for me as a chef was we 0:34:58.920 --> 0:35:01.839 made beef cheek, but so we made bogie dough brave 0:35:01.960 --> 0:35:04.920 beef cheeks filled it, you know with wild mushrooms and 0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:07.160 truffle and all that stuff. So that was like my 0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:11.160 breakout dish. So for every hit like a beef cheek parokee, 0:35:11.200 --> 0:35:13.359 there's gonna be you know. So you know, I fought 0:35:13.400 --> 0:35:15.600 him Midwest I called pot pie like pop pie is 0:35:15.800 --> 0:35:17.600 you know what everybody was, But like, we can't, we 0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:19.520 can't put a chicken pot pie on the menu at 0:35:19.600 --> 0:35:25.319 this fine dining restaurant. So I said, I'm gonna make 0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:28.000 you know. So then I worked for French chefs a 0:35:28.040 --> 0:35:31.040 lot young that got new attenant fro whatever. So you know, 0:35:31.320 --> 0:35:35.360 I was thinking of Escargo on CRUs you know, Escargo 0:35:35.480 --> 0:35:38.080 Puffey Street. So I was like, I'm gonna make an 0:35:38.200 --> 0:35:42.200 escargo pot pie. And I made it. And like I remember, 0:35:42.280 --> 0:35:43.880 like like we used to do this thing where we 0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:46.880 would introduce a new dish. All the servers would come 0:35:46.880 --> 0:35:50.600 around and would taste the dish. I explain it to them, 0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:52.480 here's the ingredientsers that we made it. So they were 0:35:52.560 --> 0:35:56.840 put to go to the table and so put up 0:35:57.040 --> 0:36:02.480 dish and taste it. And there's nothing, no like, no reaction, 0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:08.919 nothing like. So the cooks and chefs who had worked 0:36:08.920 --> 0:36:10.399 for me for a while at that time. It came 0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:14.640 from the other restaurant with me and I'm like, you guys, 0:36:14.760 --> 0:36:17.279 none of the surfers are reacting to the dish. They 0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:25.200 say nothing. So my wife is always trutally honest with me, 0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:27.759 which is a good thing, you know. I'm like, Liz, 0:36:28.480 --> 0:36:32.760 serfers haven't responded to the dish, you know, the cooks 0:36:32.760 --> 0:36:35.360 don't seem excited about the dish. I'm like, I like 0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:43.200 the dish. She's like, it's an awful dish. It's not working. 0:36:43.440 --> 0:36:45.719 It's I'm like, I'm gonna put a couple of weeks 0:36:45.719 --> 0:36:47.560 on and I put it on the menu. So so 0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:50.440 sure enough I did that and it was an immense failure. 0:36:50.480 --> 0:36:53.799 It was like it was my first lesson in the 0:36:53.840 --> 0:36:57.680 cooking world a little bit, like you know, just because 0:36:57.680 --> 0:37:00.520 you're good at your craft and you know how like 0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:04.200 you can't will something to taste good, like you can't 0:37:04.280 --> 0:37:08.760 like like it's gonna work, you know, but like mony 0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:12.440 when chefs they all have like that one dish, you know, 0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:16.040 that one dish where it's like in your mind it's 0:37:16.080 --> 0:37:19.319 part of the like the curses being creative, Like you know, 0:37:20.280 --> 0:37:24.080 there's there's chefs that just say, like I may um 0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:28.680 passa puntanesca and marinara and like very classic dishes when 0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:32.919 you're just trying to um master a classic, which is great, 0:37:32.960 --> 0:37:37.520 and there's amazing chefs in death very well, like I 0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:39.480 feel like a very good technique, but I also have 0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:42.040 this kind of creative side of me. And when you're creative, 0:37:42.080 --> 0:37:49.560 there there is the the risk of the disaster. Well, 0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:51.640 I'm sure that the dishes are much better in the 0:37:51.719 --> 0:37:54.239 mind than in the mouth. That that that that's gonna happen, 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:57.160 And not every creative type pitsa home run every time 0:37:57.160 --> 0:37:59.279 I get it. Hey, you know, for years people said, hey, 0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:01.480 you don't want to know what goes on back in 0:38:01.520 --> 0:38:03.879 the kitchen. Just go to a restaurant, enjoy the food, 0:38:03.920 --> 0:38:05.799 but you don't want to know what's going on back there. 0:38:06.040 --> 0:38:10.439 Then there were books Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential. There's a TV 0:38:10.560 --> 0:38:13.680 show right now called The Bear Said in a sandwich 0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:16.080 shop in Chicago. Some people may have seen that, but 0:38:16.080 --> 0:38:19.160 there's been other examples to where the curtain gets ripped 0:38:19.200 --> 0:38:24.160 back and it looks like chaos. My brother Drew was 0:38:24.200 --> 0:38:26.920 a chef at some nice places, and he used to 0:38:26.920 --> 0:38:29.800 tell me stories about the working conditions, just how stressful 0:38:29.840 --> 0:38:33.080 and how demanding and how tough and how hot and 0:38:33.160 --> 0:38:35.640 gnarly you can get back there. I mean, I'm sure 0:38:35.640 --> 0:38:38.640 that's not all the time. But what what story do 0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:42.480 you have that that says, you know, that symbolizes that, Yeah, 0:38:42.640 --> 0:38:44.680 you know what it's it's it's a tough job. There's 0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:47.959 no other way like unfortunately what's happened a little bit. 0:38:48.600 --> 0:38:53.880 The great thing about TV is it's it's made a 0:38:54.000 --> 0:38:57.439 profession that I have a lot of love for. People 0:38:57.480 --> 0:38:58.920 were a little bit more aware of it now than 0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:01.200 they were when I got in the business, you know, 0:39:01.440 --> 0:39:05.759 thirty plus years ago. The the hard thing about it 0:39:05.760 --> 0:39:09.880 is it's also been glamorized a little bit where people 0:39:09.920 --> 0:39:13.839 don't always necessarily they're like, you know, they watched Food 0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:15.880 Network and these cookie shows and stuff like that, and 0:39:15.880 --> 0:39:17.439 they're like, oh my gosh, I want to be a chef, 0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:19.719 and they you know, they go to school and then 0:39:19.760 --> 0:39:23.520 they get in that restaurant environment, which you know, like, look, 0:39:24.320 --> 0:39:27.239 I worked for yellows and screamers and crazy people, and 0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:29.520 I didn't want to be that way. So you know, 0:39:30.120 --> 0:39:32.680 I was a little bit crazier when I think when 0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:34.480 I was young. And then like as I'm mature as 0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:36.680 a person and as a chef, and the conference grows 0:39:36.719 --> 0:39:41.120 and all those things, like rarely ever ever ever raised 0:39:41.239 --> 0:39:45.560 my voice in the kitchen. Um, so like I tried 0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:48.400 to control the stress that way, but it's still stressful, 0:39:48.520 --> 0:39:50.920 you know, and and I mean, you know, you think 0:39:50.920 --> 0:39:52.960 of it like it like a little we had twenty 0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:57.759 menu items, had ten starters and ten countries, and we 0:39:57.800 --> 0:40:01.960 had not counting pastry, which was six people on on 0:40:02.040 --> 0:40:05.920 the main line that we're uh, twelve cooks. So basically, 0:40:06.360 --> 0:40:08.960 you know, every cook is responsible for like a dish 0:40:09.040 --> 0:40:11.520 or two couple of dishes, and you know through the 0:40:11.520 --> 0:40:13.840 course of the night. You know you do you do 0:40:14.040 --> 0:40:16.880 three people through the course of a night. So you 0:40:16.920 --> 0:40:19.680 know every cook is putting up like a couple of 0:40:19.760 --> 0:40:22.680 hundred plates. And I know customers never think of this. 0:40:22.800 --> 0:40:25.520 Like back when we open the first restaurant, I'm the 0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:27.920 man you just said no special orders, don't care. I 0:40:27.960 --> 0:40:32.080 wrote it exactly like that, like I don't care. Um, 0:40:32.120 --> 0:40:35.399 I'm not like that anymore. Dipping in a little bit. 0:40:35.719 --> 0:40:39.120 But but like what a lot of customers don't understand 0:40:39.320 --> 0:40:42.879 is like you have this person cooking and you get 0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:44.719 in a rhythm, and let's just say it's the beef 0:40:44.760 --> 0:40:47.840 cheap paroge. Like the pickup on a beef cheap paroge 0:40:47.880 --> 0:40:50.000 is you know, you boil them, you put them in 0:40:50.040 --> 0:40:54.920 brown butter, you caramelize the mushrooms with some fresh herbs 0:40:54.960 --> 0:40:56.879 and thyme, and you lay that down on the plate. 0:40:56.960 --> 0:40:59.759 Was a little bit of a reduction sauce um and 0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:05.560 then to share the truff. So you're in the process 0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:08.320 of making two a night and all of a sudden, 0:41:08.320 --> 0:41:12.440 like random wators come in no time. No must know this, 0:41:12.719 --> 0:41:15.080 no that sub this over here. I want this on that, 0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:17.560 you know, and it's hard to get out there. It 0:41:17.560 --> 0:41:20.280 would be like in the middle of calling a college 0:41:20.280 --> 0:41:23.480 football game someone said, you know what, we're playing baseball now, 0:41:26.160 --> 0:41:27.960 please one support at a time, man, one support at 0:41:28.000 --> 0:41:31.919 a time. And there is the customers always right, but 0:41:31.920 --> 0:41:36.799 but it sometimes creates a lot of stress on on 0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:40.120 a a kitchen more than you know. But you want 0:41:40.160 --> 0:41:42.080 to make the customer happy like that the role that 0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:44.400 we kind of live with now. It's like I'll do 0:41:44.480 --> 0:41:47.640 anything it takes to make the customer happy unless making 0:41:47.680 --> 0:41:51.160 that one customer happy makes twenty customers suffer. Like that's 0:41:51.200 --> 0:41:53.799 how I kind of look at it. But um, yeah, 0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:55.680 it's a tough business. You have to love it. Like 0:41:55.960 --> 0:41:58.319 there's no if I just start all over again, I 0:41:58.360 --> 0:42:00.759 do it. I get right, I jump right back into 0:42:00.760 --> 0:42:03.640 the business, like I adore the business and and I 0:42:03.640 --> 0:42:07.040 think most people that do it professionally really do. And 0:42:07.280 --> 0:42:09.200 I also think some of the stuff that you see 0:42:09.200 --> 0:42:13.600 on television is like when when Tony used to talk 0:42:13.640 --> 0:42:16.480 about you know, like kitchen confidentials. You know, he was 0:42:16.520 --> 0:42:18.959 writing about kitchens in the eighties and stuff like that. 0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:21.240 We're rough back then. I mean, those are the kittens 0:42:21.280 --> 0:42:24.040 I worked in. They were rough, but they're not quite 0:42:24.080 --> 0:42:27.200 like that anymoreren um, you know. And then the other 0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:29.440 stuff with TV, like I really enjoyed Bear. I think 0:42:29.440 --> 0:42:33.840 it's a fun show and like, you know, the energy 0:42:33.880 --> 0:42:36.440 of it, but a lot of that is hyped up 0:42:36.480 --> 0:42:39.200 for for it's not fun. It makes you anxious you're 0:42:39.239 --> 0:42:41.720 sitting there watching you Okay, this is well acted, well written, 0:42:41.760 --> 0:42:44.080 but I mean I'm so anxious watching it. How do 0:42:44.120 --> 0:42:46.399 these people like you know, then they go home when 0:42:46.400 --> 0:42:50.560 they they eat the crappiest food. I don't know if 0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:53.440 that's true. If yes, you're you're around fine food, so 0:42:53.520 --> 0:42:56.480 much goes into every aspect of food. When you get 0:42:56.520 --> 0:42:59.200 hungry and you're by yourself, you know, are you just 0:42:59.719 --> 0:43:03.960 making peanut brown jelly sandwich or whatever? You we great 0:43:04.000 --> 0:43:07.760 food like basically every day, but so we're not adverse 0:43:07.840 --> 0:43:10.439 to like going home at two in the morning after 0:43:10.520 --> 0:43:12.520 you just worked a fifteen hour day on the line 0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:15.200 and like busted out like a package of romen with 0:43:15.239 --> 0:43:20.200 some peanut butter in it. Like I speaking of unconventional choices. 0:43:20.520 --> 0:43:22.840 One of the pivotal points in Michael's career was in 0:43:22.880 --> 0:43:25.960 the mid nineties when brilliant chef Thomas Keller offered an 0:43:25.960 --> 0:43:29.239 opportunity to join the opening team and what became the 0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:33.520 legendary French Laundry in Napa. He chose to stay in 0:43:33.560 --> 0:43:36.600 his hometown and work with Liz to open Lola, which 0:43:36.640 --> 0:43:40.480 became their breakthrough a restaurant and at Cleveland Landmark. So 0:43:40.520 --> 0:43:44.560 Michael followed his heart and his gut. You know, So 0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:47.080 I I didn't take the job, and I didn't take 0:43:47.080 --> 0:43:50.440 the opportunity, I would say, and so you know, I 0:43:50.440 --> 0:43:54.480 don't even regrets. Thomas and I've been very good friends 0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:56.240 for a long time. Now we're in a book together 0:43:56.320 --> 0:44:02.320 called Solo Chef, and um it like I think about 0:44:02.360 --> 0:44:05.120 it a lot, and I think not a lot, but 0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:06.520 like a long time ago, I used to think about 0:44:06.520 --> 0:44:08.400 a lot. And you know, if I went and I 0:44:08.440 --> 0:44:11.719 worked for Thomas, you know, Thomas, such a is such 0:44:11.719 --> 0:44:16.359 a force. I believe in my heart, and I could 0:44:16.400 --> 0:44:19.319 be wrong that I probably would have cooked a lot 0:44:19.440 --> 0:44:23.080 like Thomas. You know, I like I would have. You know, 0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:28.600 you worked for someone, they mentor you, they they mold you, 0:44:28.760 --> 0:44:30.640 and and so there's gonna be a lot of that 0:44:30.680 --> 0:44:36.440 in your food dna um where you know, I kind 0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:39.680 of worked for several different people and saw different things 0:44:39.719 --> 0:44:43.160 and and then I just kind of, you know, I've 0:44:43.200 --> 0:44:47.120 learned a little bit on my own and it allowed me. 0:44:47.239 --> 0:44:49.680 I feel that it allowed me to be more expressive 0:44:49.719 --> 0:44:54.359 as a chef maybe um going the route that I did. 0:44:54.360 --> 0:44:59.520 And obviously it worked. So it Uh, Thomas certainly didn't 0:44:59.520 --> 0:45:03.960 miss me and just fine. Yeah, without Simon they do, 0:45:04.080 --> 0:45:06.120 that place just flopped. Man, It's a shame I never 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:10.200 get out the ground, you know. Um, But you know 0:45:10.320 --> 0:45:13.799 it worked very well for for me as as a 0:45:13.880 --> 0:45:17.920 chef to um. So it was it, uh, but you 0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:20.000 know it was it was at the time. It was 0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:23.640 you know again, Thomas wasn't Thomas chef. French Laundry was 0:45:23.680 --> 0:45:26.399 just opening. I mean, the chef role moved him very well, 0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:28.840 but the French Laundery cookbook wasn't out. But like I 0:45:28.840 --> 0:45:31.399 remember like eating at Raquel when he was the chef there, 0:45:31.400 --> 0:45:33.319 when I was like a young cook in New York 0:45:33.360 --> 0:45:37.839 and food was just so perfect, you know, and I'm like, man, 0:45:38.120 --> 0:45:40.319 what am I doing? Like this is a chance of 0:45:40.320 --> 0:45:43.800 a lifetime to work with this guy, like he's He's 0:45:45.840 --> 0:45:50.800 in the chef community. Even before French Landy, everybody knew 0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:54.719 how particulous and spectacular he was as a chef. So 0:45:55.120 --> 0:45:56.880 it was it was a tough decision, it was. It 0:45:56.960 --> 0:45:59.279 was a tough decision, not one that I regret, but 0:45:59.360 --> 0:46:02.440 a very tough at the time. Like you said, it 0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:04.839 worked out for a ball. I have in my hand 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:07.440 a copy of your latest book, Fix It with Food. 0:46:07.480 --> 0:46:10.600 This is the second one, Every Meal Easy. We ordered 0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:12.680 this book. Amazon told us the other day they had 0:46:12.719 --> 0:46:15.960 delivered it. The box didn't show up. We thought I'd 0:46:15.960 --> 0:46:19.000 have been stolen. They left it outside on on a 0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:21.279 road in a garage, and we thought, I wonder what 0:46:21.360 --> 0:46:23.680 the person who grabbed this Amazon box and open it 0:46:23.719 --> 0:46:28.000 up and found um. Michael Simon's book, along with the 0:46:28.040 --> 0:46:30.759 book The Making of the Godfather, Leave the Gun, Take 0:46:30.800 --> 0:46:32.879 the Cannonality is also a very good book. I don't 0:46:32.880 --> 0:46:34.680 know if you would have been disappointed or thrilled to 0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:37.000 get your book, but we're happy to have it because 0:46:37.040 --> 0:46:38.759 it talks a lot about something that's important to a a 0:46:38.800 --> 0:46:42.480 lot of people, which is, although they love food and 0:46:42.760 --> 0:46:46.520 food is sustenance, food can also make people uncomfortable. They 0:46:46.560 --> 0:46:49.560 can create inflammation. Um. Jennifer struggles with that. So we're 0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:51.239 eager to dive in and see what you've got to 0:46:51.280 --> 0:46:55.719 say about foods and and how to alleviate some of 0:46:55.760 --> 0:46:57.920 the problems because you suffer from a couple of different 0:46:57.920 --> 0:47:02.759 autoimmune diseases and you react to food badly at times too. Right, Yeah, 0:47:02.760 --> 0:47:05.319 I have are a and I have just good lucas 0:47:05.480 --> 0:47:08.000 um and you know, and my body is a little 0:47:08.000 --> 0:47:09.360 beat up from all the years of wrestling, to be 0:47:09.480 --> 0:47:11.920 quite honest. You know that the tour knees and broken 0:47:12.040 --> 0:47:16.920 arms and all that stuff that went with that. So um, 0:47:17.000 --> 0:47:20.200 so inflammation is a problem with me. And I just 0:47:20.200 --> 0:47:23.120 didn't want to you know, when I was younger, I 0:47:23.200 --> 0:47:27.200 just kind of pushed through it and whatever. I'm sore, 0:47:27.239 --> 0:47:29.279 a big deal. I can store my whole life. So 0:47:30.560 --> 0:47:32.799 but I'm just like, this is so stupid. I don't 0:47:32.800 --> 0:47:34.400 want to take a pill for it. I want to 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:36.239 try to, like, come on, chef, like, let me see 0:47:36.280 --> 0:47:41.120 if I can figure out you know how to reduce 0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:44.480 inflammation with my diet. And you know the old saying 0:47:44.560 --> 0:47:47.560 you are what you eat. It's true, you know, and 0:47:47.600 --> 0:47:50.600 now a big part of me knows it. Also as 0:47:50.640 --> 0:47:52.880 a chef, I gotta be able to taste and eat everything. 0:47:52.960 --> 0:47:58.040 So if I go, if I adjust my lifestyle and 0:47:58.200 --> 0:48:01.080 the way that I eat to help inflammation, I also 0:48:01.120 --> 0:48:03.000 have to know going into that that this isn't a 0:48:03.040 --> 0:48:06.200 perfect world for me. Like like, for instance, my triggers 0:48:06.200 --> 0:48:09.759 are sugar and dairy. Well, you know, if I'm at 0:48:09.760 --> 0:48:12.680 the restaurant someone makes a butter cream sauce, I have 0:48:12.760 --> 0:48:14.919 to taste that, you know. Or if my pacery chef 0:48:14.960 --> 0:48:17.480 makes a great dessert, I'm gonna taste them. Now. The 0:48:17.520 --> 0:48:20.040 great thing about once you learn your triggers, it's kind 0:48:20.040 --> 0:48:22.680 of like you have one bourbon, you find the next 0:48:22.760 --> 0:48:26.200 day you have four. You're hungover, but sometimes you still 0:48:26.280 --> 0:48:32.680 left four. And like that with me with the food, 0:48:33.040 --> 0:48:35.080 you know, I was able to identify my triggers. I 0:48:35.120 --> 0:48:37.200 teach people how to do it um in the book 0:48:37.280 --> 0:48:40.759 and then give them recipes to cook around their triggers. UM. 0:48:40.840 --> 0:48:43.640 And I'm very clear, like what this isn't a perfect world? 0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:47.920 I'm not. I hate the word diet. I can't stand it. 0:48:47.960 --> 0:48:50.279 I think it's like a set up for failure. Um. 0:48:50.400 --> 0:48:55.040 But here's the way to eat smart. Identify what your 0:48:55.080 --> 0:48:58.839 problems are, keep them out of your diet as much 0:48:58.880 --> 0:49:02.160 as you can, and ultimately you'll feel lot better Like 0:49:02.239 --> 0:49:06.839 I feel great, Like you know. I there's days around 0:49:06.880 --> 0:49:09.000 a little more emky than others, But for the most part, 0:49:09.080 --> 0:49:11.439 I've learned how to to this point in my life 0:49:11.440 --> 0:49:13.680 control the inflammation very well. And it works for people 0:49:13.680 --> 0:49:15.560 as well, whether it is dairy or sugar or something. 0:49:15.600 --> 0:49:19.160 You think that just by a little investigation and then 0:49:19.200 --> 0:49:22.520 some diligence and making some sacrifices, they can turn around health. 0:49:22.600 --> 0:49:27.759 That is, it's food related. You know what what I 0:49:27.880 --> 0:49:30.160 found when we I was doing all the research for 0:49:30.200 --> 0:49:34.000 the book and talking to other people with inflammation issues 0:49:34.040 --> 0:49:36.880 and having them kind of play around with these diets 0:49:36.880 --> 0:49:39.000 for me, because everyone's triggers were a little bit different. 0:49:39.080 --> 0:49:40.879 Like you know, I have a friend that has are 0:49:40.920 --> 0:49:44.239 a their triggers slower. You know, flower doesn't affect me. 0:49:44.280 --> 0:49:47.960 I have another friend UM with lupus, not discord with 0:49:49.000 --> 0:49:53.280 you know, regular lupas, and UM meat was their trigger. 0:49:53.600 --> 0:49:56.200 You know, so everybody's bodies is a little bit different. 0:49:56.480 --> 0:49:59.560 And so we we through the book, we take you 0:49:59.600 --> 0:50:03.080 through the little elimination period and then you start introducing 0:50:03.120 --> 0:50:08.759 foods back in. Just see what the triggers are. You're 0:50:08.760 --> 0:50:11.160 obviously a positive guy. We've had fun. I do want 0:50:11.160 --> 0:50:13.600 to ask one thing just from a from a chef's 0:50:13.680 --> 0:50:15.920 perspective and someone who has made their life and food. 0:50:16.560 --> 0:50:19.759 I mean, for me, it's deflating how little emphasis in 0:50:19.840 --> 0:50:23.600 this country is placed on good eating and wellness and health, 0:50:24.360 --> 0:50:28.200 and how little kids are taught about food and how 0:50:28.280 --> 0:50:30.839 to eat well, and and how much of our food 0:50:30.960 --> 0:50:34.640 is processed and so far from the farm before it 0:50:34.640 --> 0:50:36.239 gets to the table. And that's different from a lot 0:50:36.280 --> 0:50:39.839 of places in the world. You know, as an American chef, 0:50:40.680 --> 0:50:43.360 does it get you down? Do you see how is 0:50:43.400 --> 0:50:46.160 there a pathway to a to a healthier way of 0:50:46.239 --> 0:50:49.360 eating in this country? It's a disaster, and you know 0:50:49.600 --> 0:50:52.120 it's it's I mean, it's just at the end of 0:50:52.120 --> 0:50:54.880 the day, it's a disaster. The problem is current. I mean, 0:50:54.920 --> 0:50:57.640 there's a lot of problems with the system. But you know, 0:50:57.719 --> 0:51:02.760 if you the the everyone wants everything bigger, faster, cheaper. 0:51:03.160 --> 0:51:07.120 And in order to do a lot of that, people 0:51:07.880 --> 0:51:10.560 pump things with growth hormones, use pestle sides, they do 0:51:10.719 --> 0:51:13.839 all these things that get the product to the people, um, 0:51:13.920 --> 0:51:17.120 in a more inexpensive manner. And um, you know, I 0:51:17.160 --> 0:51:19.359 don't I don't have the answer. I wish I did. Uh, 0:51:19.600 --> 0:51:24.560 you know, like my oh, I'm a chef. Answer would 0:51:24.560 --> 0:51:27.480 be like, like, we should be helping the farmers that 0:51:27.520 --> 0:51:31.959 are doing things the right way so then they're able 0:51:32.040 --> 0:51:34.880 to produce food in a manner that's a little bit 0:51:34.960 --> 0:51:37.759 more inexpensive, so everybody could get the benefits of these 0:51:37.840 --> 0:51:43.240 food because the people that unfortunately have the worst diets 0:51:43.560 --> 0:51:45.880 are the people that are struggling the most financially, and 0:51:46.360 --> 0:51:48.680 they don't have a choice. You know, Like, look, you 0:51:48.760 --> 0:51:51.240 and I are fortunate. We could go to the grocery 0:51:51.320 --> 0:51:53.520 store and we could say, give me the organic produce 0:51:53.680 --> 0:51:56.600 or the grass fed beef, and you know, this is 0:51:56.640 --> 0:51:59.160 what I want to eat. Um. But there's a lot 0:51:59.200 --> 0:52:01.239 of people that just in a position to do that, 0:52:01.600 --> 0:52:04.120 and and there's a lot of waste in America too. 0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:07.240 It's like, because we want everything to look a certain 0:52:07.280 --> 0:52:09.640 way or be a certain way. It's like the amount 0:52:09.680 --> 0:52:14.240 of produce and and things like that to get thrown 0:52:14.280 --> 0:52:19.120 out our grocery stores every day would just make your 0:52:19.320 --> 0:52:26.160 mind melt, you know. And and and there's just I'm like, 0:52:26.239 --> 0:52:29.320 why why can't we give these two two food pantries? 0:52:29.520 --> 0:52:31.400 Oh they can't take a tomato with a crack in it, 0:52:31.600 --> 0:52:33.840 or they can't you know. So when people go to 0:52:33.920 --> 0:52:36.640 a grocery store and they root through forty tomatoes to 0:52:36.760 --> 0:52:39.560 find the one that they want and they crack six 0:52:39.640 --> 0:52:43.680 of them out along the way, those get thrown away, 0:52:45.120 --> 0:52:47.400 you know, And and and it's just it's horrible. So 0:52:47.640 --> 0:52:49.160 I mean, you know, we we try to do a 0:52:49.239 --> 0:52:53.040 lot with I work with some schools in Cleveland, Ohion, 0:52:53.120 --> 0:52:55.840 and you know, hopefully I can get it bigger. Like 0:52:56.040 --> 0:52:58.440 I feel like if we could do our best, defeed 0:52:58.640 --> 0:53:02.040 kids great right now and and it could move in 0:53:02.080 --> 0:53:05.080 that direction. It's like, you know, the some of the 0:53:05.160 --> 0:53:08.719 inner city parts of Cleveland has these food deserts, and 0:53:09.320 --> 0:53:11.000 um one of the schools that we worked with, we 0:53:11.080 --> 0:53:14.880 told everybody, like, draw draw your neighborhood for us, you know, 0:53:15.160 --> 0:53:17.160 and we're trying to learn more about the students. And 0:53:17.200 --> 0:53:20.360 they drew them and and you know, put where the 0:53:20.400 --> 0:53:23.720 grocery stores to gas station, So all of the grocery 0:53:23.719 --> 0:53:27.680 stores was the gas station. You know, That's that's where 0:53:27.680 --> 0:53:31.239 they were getting there. These these kids were getting their 0:53:31.320 --> 0:53:36.560 food for the day at the gas station, you know. So, um, 0:53:37.000 --> 0:53:38.640 you know, if we could fix some of those issues, 0:53:38.680 --> 0:53:40.239 I think that will help a lot. But it's it's 0:53:40.239 --> 0:53:42.719 an utpill battle. And then you go like, you know, 0:53:42.800 --> 0:53:45.360 I'm lucky enough to travel, you know, you go to 0:53:45.680 --> 0:53:49.200 some of these other countries, and you know, we're we're 0:53:49.400 --> 0:53:52.399 the smartest, most successful country in the world, but yet 0:53:52.440 --> 0:53:57.399 our food programs are probably worst, the private worst. I'm 0:53:57.400 --> 0:53:59.319 gonna wrap it up, but we're a little more upide here. 0:53:59.440 --> 0:54:01.480 What is it about food that draws people together? I mean, 0:54:01.520 --> 0:54:05.040 I know sports bring people together, Music brings people together. 0:54:05.040 --> 0:54:06.719 They don't have to speak the same language, and that's 0:54:06.719 --> 0:54:10.200 on a very basic human level. But it seems like 0:54:10.440 --> 0:54:14.799 nothing brings people together and binds them and builds relationships 0:54:14.840 --> 0:54:18.360 and strengthens bonds better than food. Obviously, we've been eating 0:54:18.440 --> 0:54:21.040 communally as a species ever since we were walking up right, 0:54:21.080 --> 0:54:22.879 That might have something to do with it. But your 0:54:23.080 --> 0:54:26.920 experiencing in the industry and making great food and and 0:54:27.160 --> 0:54:31.440 and making people feel good around the food. What what 0:54:31.600 --> 0:54:34.000 is it about that about this that makes you sort 0:54:34.040 --> 0:54:36.440 of proud to be part of that industry? You know. 0:54:36.640 --> 0:54:38.800 I think a lot of it is similar to sports 0:54:39.040 --> 0:54:42.359 and um music in the sense I think food has 0:54:42.440 --> 0:54:46.440 the ability to create very specific memories in people's minds, 0:54:47.040 --> 0:54:51.600 um and like anything that has the ability to do 0:54:51.800 --> 0:54:54.719 that and bring someone to back to a place or 0:54:54.880 --> 0:54:58.600 create a new place for them, I feel is incredibly powerful. 0:54:58.680 --> 0:55:02.279 Like you know, right when we the podcast, I talked 0:55:02.280 --> 0:55:05.479 about like when I smelled certain things that my mom made, 0:55:05.640 --> 0:55:08.279 I knew what was coming next, you know, And even 0:55:08.320 --> 0:55:11.640 as an adult, like when I make my mom's lasagna, 0:55:12.280 --> 0:55:14.480 I'm all of a sudden, I just like if I'm 0:55:14.480 --> 0:55:16.560 in a shitty mood, I make my mom's design it. 0:55:16.960 --> 0:55:19.200 You know, it's not as Bitnister's, but just at the 0:55:19.280 --> 0:55:21.800 house smells that way for a couple hours puts me 0:55:21.920 --> 0:55:24.080 in a great mood. And I think food has the 0:55:24.120 --> 0:55:26.800 ability to do that as the ability to transport you 0:55:26.960 --> 0:55:30.480 back to a place or create a new place. Um. 0:55:31.200 --> 0:55:35.520 You know, it's it's and I think that's just what 0:55:35.680 --> 0:55:38.239 does it. I think it generally makes people happy in 0:55:38.280 --> 0:55:42.080 that stuff, and so many people in the industry are 0:55:42.120 --> 0:55:44.440 are generous soul as Michael. The last thing I want 0:55:44.480 --> 0:55:49.239 to ask you about is is chefs instincts to help 0:55:49.320 --> 0:55:52.480 people and do good. There's so many examples of philanthropy 0:55:52.680 --> 0:55:54.879 through cooking and chefs and people like you have used 0:55:54.880 --> 0:55:57.680 your platform and your name to help people, whether it's 0:55:57.680 --> 0:56:00.960 through the pandemic or just through you know, tough times. 0:56:01.239 --> 0:56:04.839 And what is it about people in your industry who 0:56:05.160 --> 0:56:08.120 who feel compelled to just sort of get back and 0:56:08.239 --> 0:56:11.600 do good. Yeah, I don't know, Like I think what 0:56:11.719 --> 0:56:13.560 it is is it's really helped the foundation of the 0:56:13.600 --> 0:56:17.439 industry are are I think the base of the reason 0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:21.799 most people are in the industry industry is they're they're 0:56:22.440 --> 0:56:25.279 naturally giving souls that want to nourish people, you know. 0:56:25.400 --> 0:56:29.320 I think that that's like the core of most chefs, 0:56:29.480 --> 0:56:34.480 especially um you know. And so when there's a time 0:56:34.560 --> 0:56:36.920 and need, I think more like my guests would be 0:56:37.000 --> 0:56:40.320 more than any industry in the world when when things 0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:44.879 get bad, the first industry to jump in and try 0:56:44.960 --> 0:56:48.440 to help is the rest of industry, um, you know. 0:56:48.680 --> 0:56:51.799 So it's it's just it's how it works where that's 0:56:51.880 --> 0:56:54.759 how we're wired, you know. I think when when you're 0:56:54.960 --> 0:56:57.480 you know, like you were saying earlier, Oh, it's the 0:56:57.760 --> 0:57:00.520 stories about how tough it is in the kitchen, the 0:57:02.160 --> 0:57:05.400 the work is really difficult, but it also forms this 0:57:05.520 --> 0:57:10.719 tremendous bond um with these teams of people, and and 0:57:11.560 --> 0:57:14.200 you with that bond you take care of everybody around 0:57:14.239 --> 0:57:16.880 from win those kitchens, and I think it just it 0:57:17.240 --> 0:57:20.760 goes beyond that. Then then it goes beyond that. And um, 0:57:21.960 --> 0:57:24.040 you know, I mean, like, look look at what JS 0:57:24.080 --> 0:57:27.440 Andrew's doing. He's doing things in the world that no 0:57:27.720 --> 0:57:32.560 one has been able to do until him, not no one, 0:57:33.320 --> 0:57:38.520 I mean, And and it's truly it just stems from 0:57:38.680 --> 0:57:41.920 here's the guy who I mean is one of the 0:57:41.960 --> 0:57:44.640 greatest chefs in the world, but also more than that, 0:57:45.120 --> 0:57:49.400 has a heart that is like could fill a hundred rooms, 0:57:49.960 --> 0:57:53.240 you know, and he just wants to take care of people. 0:57:53.360 --> 0:57:57.080 And he doesn't care, he doesn't care what it takes. 0:57:57.400 --> 0:57:59.720 He just wants to do the right thing all the 0:57:59.800 --> 0:58:02.920 time and take care of people. And um, I mean, 0:58:03.080 --> 0:58:05.840 he's the extreme example of that. But I think most 0:58:05.960 --> 0:58:09.800 chefs are. There's more chefs like Jose than chefs that 0:58:09.880 --> 0:58:14.080 are not great place to leave it. Speaking of generosity, 0:58:14.880 --> 0:58:19.480 really grateful for your time. Um, someday I'm gonna crash 0:58:19.560 --> 0:58:22.480 one of your your football parties there and and experience 0:58:22.560 --> 0:58:24.200 your food to try to make up for the fact 0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:26.760 that I was last served in college game day. But 0:58:27.280 --> 0:58:29.520 I'll bring I'll bring what I know best. I'll bring 0:58:29.600 --> 0:58:31.240 the bourbon in, the tequila and the beer and you 0:58:31.280 --> 0:58:32.960 can take care of the rest. Is that a deal? 0:58:33.920 --> 0:58:37.200 You guys are always welcome to the house for Sunday supper, 0:58:37.320 --> 0:58:40.160 so I know your busiest on Saturdays. Sundays might be 0:58:40.200 --> 0:58:42.520 a little bit hard, but you know, Clinton, Dave, we 0:58:42.560 --> 0:58:46.640 don't even have to come. You're always welcome Now. Sundays, 0:58:46.680 --> 0:58:51.120 I'm light open, brothers. Saturdays are busy. Sundays I'm exhausted 0:58:51.200 --> 0:58:56.080 but hungry. You can look for Michael on the Food 0:58:56.120 --> 0:59:00.520 Network hosting B b Q USA and Simon's Inners, where 0:59:00.560 --> 0:59:04.000 he cooks in his stunning back your heart. My thanks 0:59:04.040 --> 0:59:06.880 to Michael and a co executive producer Jennifer Dempster for 0:59:06.920 --> 0:59:09.920 her great work in this episode, and editor Jason white Kell. 0:59:10.120 --> 0:59:12.360 I'll talk to you soon with more of season five 0:59:12.560 --> 0:59:13.720 of Fowler. Who You Got