WEBVTT - If You Don't Want Your Guy To Cheat, Make Sure He Has This Job 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.160 Welcome to I Do Part two the podcast for people 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.840 that maybe didn't find there happily ever after the first 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.040 time around. I'm one of your hosts, Jana Kramer, and 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.960 today I'm joined by one of our favorite celebrity mentors 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:25.279 here on the podcast, former pro dancer for twenty six 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:28.200 seasons on Dancing with the Stars. It's my girl, Cheryl Burke. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:31.280 Hey girl, Hey, Today we're going to dive into the 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:34.680 topic of divorce, something we know nothing about. Some celebs 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:36.839 in the headlines new trends and divorce. We're going to 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.200 bring in Kate Simmons, a divorce attorney with Simmons Law Group. 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.239 She's got a video right now that is popping up 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.040 all over the internet, so let's get her in here 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:47.600 and do a deep dive on this. Kate, thank you 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:49.680 so much for coming on the show. I kind of 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:51.560 want to start this off and we'll just deep dive 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:54.960 right into it. So when I saw your video, so 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.959 you've got this video going viral right now on TikTok 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:04.200 and some other you know streamers, and you basically said, like, 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.480 here are the three people that are most likely not 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:12.600 going to cheat, right you said, farmers, accountants and pharmacists. 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:13.319 Is that accurate? 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:15.759 That's right, That's what's on the video. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.480 So when I watch it, and maybe this is just 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:23.319 like my jaded heart from my past relationship, but I'm like, 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:26.959 a how did you come up with that? But also 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:31.840 in my mind, I'm like, a dude's gonna cheat no 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:33.800 matter what they do, right, So it's like and a 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:37.080 lot of times, you know, my last husband was a 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.880 professional athlete, all right, he's in the terrible category of 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.280 most likely going to cheat. Not saying they all do, 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.240 because now my husband was a professional athlete as well, 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.640 has never cheated, wouldn't dare to freaking cheat? Is the 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:52.040 most respectful man, never cheated on his X, wouldn't cheat 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.440 on me, whether I mean anything. It's like, so it's 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.760 like to label someone a cheater or not a cheater 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:00.400 to me is kind of like, how can you even 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:00.680 do that? 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:04.760 In a way, you're so right and you can't really 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:07.960 do that. I mean, I've done videos that have gone 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.320 viral and let's just get it out of the way. 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.640 The most likely to cheat men, of course, men are 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:18.320 going to cheat your spot on. I see it every day. Cops, firefighters, 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.480 I mean, divorce lawyers will joke behind the scenes, like 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.680 if you married a cop, that was your first mistake. 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:27.640 So we talk about people in law enforcement EMTs, firefighters 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.440 most likely one hundred percent. 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.160 Of the time, one hundred percent of the time. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.960 Not one hundred percent of the time. But if someone 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.280 calls and they say, it's you know, the talk of 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.600 the fire station, the talk of the cop shop, I 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:49.080 mean that we expect. So when those videos got so popular, 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.440 we got all this feedback about who's not cheating, women 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:56.360 and men who are more or less likely to be 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.480 in the console chair talking about cheating, and so we 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:03.760 just came up with like ten occupations that we don't 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:09.840 see that much. Accountants, librarians, we said, teachers long ago, 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:13.520 and the internet started on fire, like here are all 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:17.880 these teachers that are cheating. But it is really difficult 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:22.959 outside of the occupations I mentioned. You know something really 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.720 interesting about cheating that I think is coming to the 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:31.480 forefront more. And when I talk to women, middle aged women, 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:36.600 there's let's set aside the young guys that are acting inappropriately, 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:42.360 but when we see families broken apart by true affairs 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.360 and women come in in their late thirties and forties, 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.680 I want to hear from both of you if you agree, 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:54.520 if you think this is mainstream information. But I describe 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:59.960 to these women when men are finding these other lies 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:04.440 and they're going to another person, it's really easy for 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.520 the wife to say, what did I do wrong? What 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:11.200 did I do in this relationship to cause this? And 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:16.720 I think it's becoming more understandable and people are accepting 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:21.640 the feedback from me more readily that those people, those men, 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.480 let's just stick with the gender bias. Those husbands are 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:29.440 unhappy with themselves, that it's not something that these women 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:33.320 are doing or it always takes two when a relationship 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:38.480 breaks down. But I think it's becoming much more of 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.200 a positive spin in a way for them to move 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:45.039 forward in their lives for their new beginning, to recognize 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.599 that those men are unhappy with themselves and they're looking 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:51.359 for something, and they're looking for something that does not 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.080 stem from the fault of the other spouse. 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.920 Cheryl, when you got divorce, was your first thought, did 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.119 you go into why I could because I was in 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:03.200 this or that? 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:05.800 I think yeah, And I think it actually stems from 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.279 the way I was raised, right like, I don't think 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:10.920 it just I think that's a natural we're all human, 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.400 and I think the first thing we do is in 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:18.600 a way shame ourselves, blame ourselves and definitely try to 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.640 put the pieces together and get answers. But sometimes there's 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:25.839 just no answers, right, And for the most part, I think, 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.960 naturally my brain went to, Yeah, what did I do wrong? 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:31.719 Did I not sleep with him enough? Did I you know, 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.839 there's all these questions that I ask myself. Was I 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.920 not there? Emotionally? Was I not? It's just but ultimately 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.039 intellectually I know, of course it has nothing to do 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.040 with me. It has everything to do with that person. 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.919 But naturally, right, and if I wasn't in therapy for 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.279 as long as I've been in therapy, it would have 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:54.760 really taken a toll on my own self esteem, my confidence, 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:56.719 just me as a woman in general. You know. 0:05:57.200 --> 0:05:59.360 Yeah, and I think Kate's your thing too, I mean 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.520 to kind of what you're saying, Cheryl. I remember, it's 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.400 my first thought was when I found out that what 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.400 he was cheating was you know, why am I not 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:13.159 enough for you? To like? Is what's wrong with me? 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:16.279 That he went to go be with someone else? Like was? 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:18.880 You know? But my thing was I went back to 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.040 old conversations that we had, like I'll never forget. We 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.120 were sitting at this restaurant and I was asking him, like, 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.400 you know, why he wouldn't be physical with me or 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.559 sleep with me, and he's like, well, look at you. 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:30.280 You look at you wear to bed, and I'm like, 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.159 I wear a big like a big T shirt, you know, 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.160 and he's like, you think that's sexy. Really you think 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:37.920 that's sexy, And I'm like, I've just never been a 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.880 lingerie girl, right, So I never did pull on lauingderie. 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:44.800 I always thought the big boyfriend T shirt was sexy 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.479 and like, but like, uh. He immediately blamed his and 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:50.800 I didn't know he was cheating at that point on 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.240 the fact that I didn't dress sexy. So once I 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:55.960 found out, I was like, oh, it's because I wasn't 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:58.839 sexy enough for him, so he chose something else that 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.880 was sexier, and so imediately it went to I wasn't 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:04.839 good enough. I'm not pretty enough for him to or 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.240 sexy enough, and I you know, I didn't give him 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.200 what he needed, so that's why, and I need to 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.280 now do this to please him so that he stays 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:12.480 and like doesn't do it again. 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:14.440 But he was just gas lighting you you know well, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:15.040 and I know. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.280 That now, but it took I mean years of therapy 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:19.520 to go, oh, wait a minute, this has nothing to 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:21.560 do with me. I was always good enough. I was 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:23.600 always pretty enough, and I was it was always his 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.040 low self esteem. But when I go back to all 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.239 the comments, he was trying to bring my self esteem 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.600 down to make himself feel better. But you don't know 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:32.920 that when that happens, right, like when you're going through 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:34.760 that divorce, You're like, why who wasn't I good enough? 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.320 Why couldn't he stay for me? And like treat me 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:40.040 this way? Now this other girl. It's like no, So 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.280 I think you know when I you know, Kate, I 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.640 guess you know. Another question is that is when I 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.080 was talking to my now husband, I was telling him 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.480 we were kind of talking about infidelity, and he's like, 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:54.760 I said, you know, the main reason that I left 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.160 him wasn't because he cheated. It was because of the 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.160 lies and it was because of the deceit. And he's like, 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.760 what not because he slept with other women? And I'm like, no, 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.000 it was because he lied about it and he wasn't 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:07.120 honest and he was It was it was the It 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.400 wasn't the act. It was the lie, and it was 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:10.640 the deceit, That's. 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:12.880 Why, and not taking accountability and sticking to it like 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.240 it's a whole thing. Yeah, Like it's never the act 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.240 of it's never never. 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.560 Yeah, it's like that hurts. Yeah, I can forgive and 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:22.920 I tried, but it's always the deceit and the lie. 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:25.160 And so okay, do you see that a lot with 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.720 is you know, when people file for divorce, you know, 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.360 is it infidelity or do you see it as the 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.480 the the uh, you know, the lie. 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.559 You're right on, it's the lie. It's not the infidelity. 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.520 It's not I'm here the day after I found out 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:44.640 about this affair. And you've also identified a huge difference 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.240 in the maturity level of twenty year old women that 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:50.880 I see thirty year old women that I see in forty. 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.680 I mean, and this is partly personal experience, but as 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.760 I talk to female clients, and frankly, I do have 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:01.400 about a fifty to fifty split gender wise, But with 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.719 my female clients, it's a different mindset. When they're coming in. 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:08.680 You're so much more confident. Think of what a different 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:12.320 person you are a twenty year old Janet a thirty 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.840 year old Janet, third year old Cheryl to forty year 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:19.000 old Cheryl. I mean it's like our milestones are huge, 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:25.400 and so yes, absolutely it's he wouldn't do the work necessary, 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.320 or maybe maybe she cheated and I just did a 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:33.679 consult recently. I had an affair ten years ago. I 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.320 was willing to move on. I was willing to go 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:39.680 to therapy. I wanted to do the work, and he couldn't. 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.280 He never got over it. He throws it in my 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.120 face every day and it just drags the relationship to 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.720 a screeching halt. And so that's absolutely right. Can you 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.880 get a great therapist or counselor which can be difficult 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:57.440 to do, and do the work needed if both people 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:01.520 want to save the relationship. Law firm is very very 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:07.720 resolution oriented, reconciliation oriented, and it doesn't happen a lot. 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:10.720 But if people are like, we need a therapist, we 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:12.360 want to work on this, we want to put this 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:17.640 on hold, I give lots of space for that timeline 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:19.560 and for that to happen. Does it happen a lot? 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:22.679 Now It's like my sobriety, like without first of all 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:26.840 taking accountability and realizing what you did was wrong or 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.440 in my case, when it comes to my sobriety is 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.840 first admitting that I have a problem, right, And you 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.920 can't continue to seesaw back and forth, like it can't 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:37.400 be like, oh, yes I do, Oh no I don't. 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:39.480 I'm just a social drinker. Like no, I had to 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.600 have a come to Jesus moment and be like, I 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.439 actually have a drinking problem and if I want to 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:46.960 get better, I have to do the work and do 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.559 the steps and get into a program and all of it. 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.440 And that's the same thing with infidelity. It's it was 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:56.520 the teeter tottering. It's like, okay, yes, no, maybe I 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.920 didn't technically cheat on you, or remember when you did this. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.960 It's like that to me, just is a huge red flag. 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.640 Cheryl. Let me give you a virtual high five, virtual hug. 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.480 Alcohol is the poison of family court. I am so 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.199 impressed with you. What a great lifestyle. So congratulations, Thank 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:15.680 good for you girl, Thank you. 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.839 What is the number one reason why people are getting 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:30.560 divorced when they come into your office. 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:34.320 Grown apart different places in life. If I had to 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.480 pick one, and I get that question a lot, so 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.160 I would not select infidelity. I think that's really a 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:45.160 byproduct of other things that are happening. I have a 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:51.520 theory about society with this push to twenty year old people. Everybody, 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.000 whoever you've been with for a year, it's like, what's 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.080 the next step in life? Do you want to have kids? 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.520 What are you doing? I think people young people get 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:03.040 married to quickly. If you really go through all of 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:07.360 the seasons with someone deal with difficulty, how do you 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:11.400 too communicate? I am so lucky. I'm married to a 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:15.320 man who's emotionally mature. He can communicate, and I don't 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:19.600 see that a heck of a lot. And it's people 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:23.920 who are in different places and eventually take the kids 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.000 out of it, because sometimes people stay married or I'll 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.280 see you when my kids are fifteen and up because 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.320 I know this isn't the right relationship for me. But 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:37.960 looking back, people see the red flags. I've had more 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.839 than ten consults in the last year that will say 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.120 I knew I shouldn't have married this person when we 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.719 were walking down the aisle. That is so heartbreaking. 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.880 Yeah, I had one of those. I had one of 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:52.720 those that went in the bathroom and cried about it 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:54.520 because I was like, well, prap. 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:56.600 This is the thing with being in the business. It's 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:58.920 like it just felt like a dress rehearsal. 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:04.600 Yeah, right, And why couldn't you Why couldn't you pull 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:05.640 out of that moment? 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:07.480 Oh? There was no way in hell. 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:12.640 We had the magazine you know, thing already they were paying, 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:13.520 they paid. 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.319 I had Bendy Weiss involved, Like this was not. 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.839 People already had their tickets and how could I How 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:23.559 could I ruin people's plans was what my thought was, Like. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.079 Their airline tickets or like the tickets to the show. 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.360 Like the plans, How could I ruin that for them? Yeah, 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:31.920 they've already spent their money on it. 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.880 Yep, and nothing. Nothing in our thought process was like 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.040 maybe this is wrong and I need to like run 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:37.680 away bride it. 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.920 You know. It's yeah, that's the part where it's you know, 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.080 it's sad now to think because I believe and now 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.560 I know in my you know, this age being forty, 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.959 that if I would have texted my mom and said, hey, 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.000 I want to actually call this off because I don't 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.280 think it's right, she would be like, I one thousand percent, 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.320 I will let everyone know and I will you know, 0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.400 she would have been there. It was just my own 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:04.800 embarrassment and maybe you know my not I wasn't one 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.199 hundred percent sure, so I thought maybe i'd change my mind. 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.320 I thought maybe i'd get that feeling back when I 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:11.160 walked down the aisle. 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:13.080 What did you feel when you walked down the aisle? 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.360 I just out of curiosity, just complete regret. Oh really 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:18.520 you were present though with yourself? 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.960 Yeah? Yeah, because I told my best friend in the bathroom, 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:23.920 I was like, I just made the biggest mistake, and 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:25.360 now I don't want to My whole thing was I 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.320 don't want to be divorced with kids because that's the 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:29.720 house that I grew up in. So I was like, 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.040 I got to divorce them right away because I will 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.240 end up having babies and then we'll get divorced and 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.600 I don't want that. So that was why I then 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:39.960 did that, you know so, but it was it was wrong, 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.000 and it was it was real to somebody else, and 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:43.080 that wasn't fair, you know. 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.640 So now would you have gone, would you have stopped everything? 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.760 One hundred percent? And that's why I think to your point, 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:54.000 Kate is marrying later in life, you know yourself more now, 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.000 and it's I never want to tell like when I 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.920 hear someone young getting married that's in their middle twenties 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:03.160 or you know, like, I'm like, oh gosh, it like 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.320 almost like breaks my heart and I always want to 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.640 celebrate love, but I also know how much you grow 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:10.360 during those years too. 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.520 But then also, who am I to say, like what 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:14.000 is young? 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.960 Yeah, I'm like, maybe they're you know, maybe they'll end 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:19.920 up being together forever. So who am I to say? 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.760 And what a learning lesson? Like what I've like, I've 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:24.440 learned so much too. 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.320 Yeah, And so it's like, why would I want to 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:27.440 take that away from people too? 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:32.520 You know? Yeah, I do like the discussion of It's 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:34.760 part of your story. It makes you part of who 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:39.160 you are. But my every day is seeing the heartbreak 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.960 of divorce and the heartbreak that it brings even the 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:47.320 greater family, everybody in the family unit and so young people. 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.240 I say, and I love weddings and I love love. 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:52.240 And by the way, I love the name of this 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:56.080 podcast we did. I have a friend who owns a 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.520 magazine in our community, and we ran a short ad 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:03.320 for our Divorce in the Day program that was when 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:07.000 your I do needs a redo, do it in a day? 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:08.760 And I thought, oh, As soon as I saw the 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.760 title of this podcast, I thought, that's fantastic, it's great idea. 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.360 Well, speaking of redos though, I mean, Bill Gates recently 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.200 made headlines because he was saying, you know, his divorce 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:22.240 was the mistake he most regretted. And you know, have 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.440 you like you kind of spoke on it a little bit, 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.400 but have you seen people then say never mind? Like, yeah, 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.360 you said that they want to maybe do therapy, but 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.240 do they end up coming back and getting divorced or 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:36.800 have you had more people actually pull it off the table, they. 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.000 Will come back and get divorced. And I saw that, 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.000 And you know, Bill and Melinda had a long term marriage, 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:48.240 and I thought the comment was interesting. I'm going to 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:50.920 predict that he doesn't mean he wishes he was still 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.480 married to her. I think they had their long standing 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:59.960 issues and it's a very painful process. It's very difficult. 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:05.919 We almost never have people actually reconcile and stay reconciled. 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:11.320 I've had couples get divorced, remarried, divorced. I divorced the 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:15.480 same couple three times throughout my career, and they're kind 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:21.320 of just a love hate toxic strong feelings and no 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.159 we did a Chris and I did a mediation recently 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:31.639 where the couple really felt strongly about their relationship. They 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.399 knew it was the right thing. They were very sweet people, 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:37.320 and they asked us to hold their paperwork. They wanted 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.840 to give it, you know, a little bit of time 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.440 and cold within sixty days and said file it. And 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:48.200 with the final decree and everything, we don't really see 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:52.800 the reconciliation that successful long term. 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.680 So when you saw j Loo and Ben then reckon. 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.199 I know they weren't married. They were engaged though, So 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.000 when you saw them get back to Gareth and get married, 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:01.680 did you already go divorce? 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.399 Absolutely? They're just like that. I mean, it really is 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.320 just like that couple. And of course they have the 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.119 heighten the money, the attention, everything that goes along with 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.959 being in a lister and everybody's watching, which makes it 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:16.520 more painful. I mean, you've seen some of Jlo's statements, 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:20.240 and I think it's incredibly painful. I also think that 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:27.479 very famous celebrities tend to have traits of loneliness because 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.600 that is such an isolating life to live. 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.960 I think I mean that's because they're not though finding 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.520 the true love, which happens within you, right, like you 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.919 complete you regardless, like there is no other person that 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.200 would fill that void for you. So if you haven't 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:46.239 done that work individually as two separate people, it's going 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.520 to be really hard that you are leaving it up 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.680 for so many expectations on one another that you're bound 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:53.600 to not ever live up to it. 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.320 That's right, and not as a negative to people like 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.440 Ben and Jlo who have those goes. I don't mean 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.080 that in a negative way. It's just part of their personality. 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:09.640 But how exhausting to support someone as fabulous and famous 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.840 as you are all the time and have that constant 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.680 balance in your life. How do they find a balance? 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.960 I think? But yeah, I figure they'll be they'll be 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:19.920 splitting up again. 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.520 Do you think it's easier or more complicated to get 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:34.040 divorce late in life? 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.520 Easier the silver divorce? Oh yeah? 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.480 So Chery, what is that? Because I you know, I 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:40.679 saw you were talking about silver divorce, so I have 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:42.520 I don't know what it is. Tell me what I mean? 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:45.119 I just found out today, But silver divorce is like 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.959 when you divorce later in life, right when you're like 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:53.160 in your fifty fifty sixties. I think and you realize that, Wow, 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.399 this is not the person I want to live my 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:59.320 rest of my life with. But I also think it's generational, right, So, 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.720 like I just think about my parents right now. I 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:03.840 come from a divorce family, but my mom remarried my 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:07.159 stepfather and if they were too divorced. Today, there's so 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.560 much it's generational in the sense of first of all, 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.560 when my mom, you know, was being raised by her parents, 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.440 there was no such thing like there. She's Filipino, she's 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.640 very Catholic, and there's a lot of shame that comes 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.920 with it. But I think with how open we are 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.160 now with mental health, I think it's leaving that door 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:29.199 maybe a little bit open for that generation nowadays to 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:30.720 be like, you know what, I'm going to choose me. 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:35.600 That's right. And my message to women is choose you 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.639 when you're forty or when the kids are out of 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.600 the house. I have a lot of experience with gray 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:46.640 or silver divorce, whichever you call it. We're my law 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.320 firms in Phoenix. We're very close to a lot of 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:53.960 retirement communities, as you can imagine, and I have had 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:58.920 a lot of the both men and women in their seventies, eighties, 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.880 late eighties. Can you imagine going through this awful process. 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:08.720 The silver lining is that they're pretty calm about the 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:12.399 whole situation. And here's the sad part. This is my 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:17.280 message to middle aged women, because they knew say it's 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:21.879 a silver divorce, that they have been truly married fifty years, 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.920 not a second marriage, and the kids are long gone. 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:30.120 All of the properties community they all say they First 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:32.679 of all, everybody tells me how many years they've been 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.280