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Speaker 1: Welcome to I Do Part two the podcast for people

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Speaker 1: that maybe didn't find there happily ever after the first

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Speaker 1: time around. I'm one of your hosts, Jana Kramer, and

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Speaker 1: today I'm joined by one of our favorite celebrity mentors

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Speaker 1: here on the podcast, former pro dancer for twenty six

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Speaker 1: seasons on Dancing with the Stars. It's my girl, Cheryl Burke.

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Speaker 1: Hey girl, Hey, Today we're going to dive into the

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Speaker 1: topic of divorce, something we know nothing about. Some celebs

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Speaker 1: in the headlines new trends and divorce. We're going to

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Speaker 1: bring in Kate Simmons, a divorce attorney with Simmons Law Group.

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Speaker 1: She's got a video right now that is popping up

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Speaker 1: all over the internet, so let's get her in here

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Speaker 1: and do a deep dive on this. Kate, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for coming on the show. I kind of

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Speaker 1: want to start this off and we'll just deep dive

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Speaker 1: right into it. So when I saw your video, so

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Speaker 1: you've got this video going viral right now on TikTok

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Speaker 1: and some other you know streamers, and you basically said, like,

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Speaker 1: here are the three people that are most likely not

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Speaker 1: going to cheat, right you said, farmers, accountants and pharmacists.

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Speaker 1: Is that accurate?

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Speaker 2: That's right, That's what's on the video.

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Speaker 1: So when I watch it, and maybe this is just

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Speaker 1: like my jaded heart from my past relationship, but I'm like,

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Speaker 1: a how did you come up with that? But also

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Speaker 1: in my mind, I'm like, a dude's gonna cheat no

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Speaker 1: matter what they do, right, So it's like and a

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Speaker 1: lot of times, you know, my last husband was a

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Speaker 1: professional athlete, all right, he's in the terrible category of

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Speaker 1: most likely going to cheat. Not saying they all do,

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Speaker 1: because now my husband was a professional athlete as well,

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Speaker 1: has never cheated, wouldn't dare to freaking cheat? Is the

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Speaker 1: most respectful man, never cheated on his X, wouldn't cheat

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Speaker 1: on me, whether I mean anything. It's like, so it's

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Speaker 1: like to label someone a cheater or not a cheater

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Speaker 1: to me is kind of like, how can you even

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Speaker 1: do that?

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Speaker 2: In a way, you're so right and you can't really

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Speaker 2: do that. I mean, I've done videos that have gone

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Speaker 2: viral and let's just get it out of the way.

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Speaker 2: The most likely to cheat men, of course, men are

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Speaker 2: going to cheat your spot on. I see it every day. Cops, firefighters,

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Speaker 2: I mean, divorce lawyers will joke behind the scenes, like

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Speaker 2: if you married a cop, that was your first mistake.

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Speaker 2: So we talk about people in law enforcement EMTs, firefighters

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Speaker 2: most likely one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: Of the time, one hundred percent of the time.

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Speaker 2: Not one hundred percent of the time. But if someone

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Speaker 2: calls and they say, it's you know, the talk of

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Speaker 2: the fire station, the talk of the cop shop, I

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Speaker 2: mean that we expect. So when those videos got so popular,

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Speaker 2: we got all this feedback about who's not cheating, women

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Speaker 2: and men who are more or less likely to be

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Speaker 2: in the console chair talking about cheating, and so we

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Speaker 2: just came up with like ten occupations that we don't

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Speaker 2: see that much. Accountants, librarians, we said, teachers long ago,

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Speaker 2: and the internet started on fire, like here are all

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Speaker 2: these teachers that are cheating. But it is really difficult

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Speaker 2: outside of the occupations I mentioned. You know something really

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Speaker 2: interesting about cheating that I think is coming to the

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Speaker 2: forefront more. And when I talk to women, middle aged women,

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Speaker 2: there's let's set aside the young guys that are acting inappropriately,

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Speaker 2: but when we see families broken apart by true affairs

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Speaker 2: and women come in in their late thirties and forties,

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Speaker 2: I want to hear from both of you if you agree,

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Speaker 2: if you think this is mainstream information. But I describe

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Speaker 2: to these women when men are finding these other lies

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Speaker 2: and they're going to another person, it's really easy for

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Speaker 2: the wife to say, what did I do wrong? What

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Speaker 2: did I do in this relationship to cause this? And

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Speaker 2: I think it's becoming more understandable and people are accepting

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Speaker 2: the feedback from me more readily that those people, those men,

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Speaker 2: let's just stick with the gender bias. Those husbands are

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Speaker 2: unhappy with themselves, that it's not something that these women

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Speaker 2: are doing or it always takes two when a relationship

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Speaker 2: breaks down. But I think it's becoming much more of

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Speaker 2: a positive spin in a way for them to move

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Speaker 2: forward in their lives for their new beginning, to recognize

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Speaker 2: that those men are unhappy with themselves and they're looking

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Speaker 2: for something, and they're looking for something that does not

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Speaker 2: stem from the fault of the other spouse.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl, when you got divorce, was your first thought, did

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Speaker 1: you go into why I could because I was in

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Speaker 1: this or that?

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Speaker 3: I think yeah, And I think it actually stems from

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Speaker 3: the way I was raised, right like, I don't think

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Speaker 3: it just I think that's a natural we're all human,

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Speaker 3: and I think the first thing we do is in

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Speaker 3: a way shame ourselves, blame ourselves and definitely try to

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Speaker 3: put the pieces together and get answers. But sometimes there's

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Speaker 3: just no answers, right, And for the most part, I think,

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Speaker 3: naturally my brain went to, Yeah, what did I do wrong?

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Speaker 3: Did I not sleep with him enough? Did I you know,

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Speaker 3: there's all these questions that I ask myself. Was I

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Speaker 3: not there? Emotionally? Was I not? It's just but ultimately

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Speaker 3: intellectually I know, of course it has nothing to do

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Speaker 3: with me. It has everything to do with that person.

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Speaker 3: But naturally, right, and if I wasn't in therapy for

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Speaker 3: as long as I've been in therapy, it would have

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Speaker 3: really taken a toll on my own self esteem, my confidence,

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Speaker 3: just me as a woman in general. You know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think Kate's your thing too, I mean

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Speaker 1: to kind of what you're saying, Cheryl. I remember, it's

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Speaker 1: my first thought was when I found out that what

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Speaker 1: he was cheating was you know, why am I not

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Speaker 1: enough for you? To like? Is what's wrong with me?

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Speaker 1: That he went to go be with someone else? Like was?

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Speaker 1: You know? But my thing was I went back to

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Speaker 1: old conversations that we had, like I'll never forget. We

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Speaker 1: were sitting at this restaurant and I was asking him, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, why he wouldn't be physical with me or

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Speaker 1: sleep with me, and he's like, well, look at you.

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Speaker 1: You look at you wear to bed, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I wear a big like a big T shirt, you know,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, you think that's sexy. Really you think

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Speaker 1: that's sexy, And I'm like, I've just never been a

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Speaker 1: lingerie girl, right, So I never did pull on lauingderie.

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Speaker 1: I always thought the big boyfriend T shirt was sexy

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Speaker 1: and like, but like, uh. He immediately blamed his and

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Speaker 1: I didn't know he was cheating at that point on

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Speaker 1: the fact that I didn't dress sexy. So once I

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Speaker 1: found out, I was like, oh, it's because I wasn't

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Speaker 1: sexy enough for him, so he chose something else that

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Speaker 1: was sexier, and so imediately it went to I wasn't

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Speaker 1: good enough. I'm not pretty enough for him to or

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Speaker 1: sexy enough, and I you know, I didn't give him

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Speaker 1: what he needed, so that's why, and I need to

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Speaker 1: now do this to please him so that he stays

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Speaker 1: and like doesn't do it again.

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Speaker 3: But he was just gas lighting you you know well,

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Speaker 3: and I know.

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Speaker 1: That now, but it took I mean years of therapy

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Speaker 1: to go, oh, wait a minute, this has nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with me. I was always good enough. I was

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Speaker 1: always pretty enough, and I was it was always his

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Speaker 1: low self esteem. But when I go back to all

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Speaker 1: the comments, he was trying to bring my self esteem

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Speaker 1: down to make himself feel better. But you don't know

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Speaker 1: that when that happens, right, like when you're going through

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Speaker 1: that divorce, You're like, why who wasn't I good enough?

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Speaker 1: Why couldn't he stay for me? And like treat me

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Speaker 1: this way? Now this other girl. It's like no, So

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Speaker 1: I think you know when I you know, Kate, I

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Speaker 1: guess you know. Another question is that is when I

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Speaker 1: was talking to my now husband, I was telling him

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Speaker 1: we were kind of talking about infidelity, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: I said, you know, the main reason that I left

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Speaker 1: him wasn't because he cheated. It was because of the

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Speaker 1: lies and it was because of the deceit. And he's like,

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Speaker 1: what not because he slept with other women? And I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: it was because he lied about it and he wasn't

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Speaker 1: honest and he was It was it was the It

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Speaker 1: wasn't the act. It was the lie, and it was

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Speaker 1: the deceit, That's.

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Speaker 3: Why, and not taking accountability and sticking to it like

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Speaker 3: it's a whole thing. Yeah, Like it's never the act

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Speaker 3: of it's never never.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that hurts. Yeah, I can forgive and

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Speaker 1: I tried, but it's always the deceit and the lie.

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Speaker 1: And so okay, do you see that a lot with

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Speaker 1: is you know, when people file for divorce, you know,

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Speaker 1: is it infidelity or do you see it as the

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Speaker 1: the the uh, you know, the lie.

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Speaker 2: You're right on, it's the lie. It's not the infidelity.

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Speaker 2: It's not I'm here the day after I found out

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Speaker 2: about this affair. And you've also identified a huge difference

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Speaker 2: in the maturity level of twenty year old women that

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Speaker 2: I see thirty year old women that I see in forty.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and this is partly personal experience, but as

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Speaker 2: I talk to female clients, and frankly, I do have

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Speaker 2: about a fifty to fifty split gender wise, But with

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Speaker 2: my female clients, it's a different mindset. When they're coming in.

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Speaker 2: You're so much more confident. Think of what a different

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Speaker 2: person you are a twenty year old Janet a thirty

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Speaker 2: year old Janet, third year old Cheryl to forty year

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Speaker 2: old Cheryl. I mean it's like our milestones are huge,

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Speaker 2: and so yes, absolutely it's he wouldn't do the work necessary,

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Speaker 2: or maybe maybe she cheated and I just did a

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Speaker 2: consult recently. I had an affair ten years ago. I

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Speaker 2: was willing to move on. I was willing to go

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Speaker 2: to therapy. I wanted to do the work, and he couldn't.

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Speaker 2: He never got over it. He throws it in my

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Speaker 2: face every day and it just drags the relationship to

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Speaker 2: a screeching halt. And so that's absolutely right. Can you

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Speaker 2: get a great therapist or counselor which can be difficult

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Speaker 2: to do, and do the work needed if both people

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Speaker 2: want to save the relationship. Law firm is very very

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Speaker 2: resolution oriented, reconciliation oriented, and it doesn't happen a lot.

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Speaker 2: But if people are like, we need a therapist, we

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Speaker 2: want to work on this, we want to put this

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Speaker 2: on hold, I give lots of space for that timeline

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Speaker 2: and for that to happen. Does it happen a lot?

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Speaker 3: Now It's like my sobriety, like without first of all

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Speaker 3: taking accountability and realizing what you did was wrong or

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Speaker 3: in my case, when it comes to my sobriety is

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Speaker 3: first admitting that I have a problem, right, And you

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Speaker 3: can't continue to seesaw back and forth, like it can't

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Speaker 3: be like, oh, yes I do, Oh no I don't.

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Speaker 3: I'm just a social drinker. Like no, I had to

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Speaker 3: have a come to Jesus moment and be like, I

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Speaker 3: actually have a drinking problem and if I want to

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Speaker 3: get better, I have to do the work and do

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Speaker 3: the steps and get into a program and all of it.

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Speaker 3: And that's the same thing with infidelity. It's it was

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Speaker 3: the teeter tottering. It's like, okay, yes, no, maybe I

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Speaker 3: didn't technically cheat on you, or remember when you did this.

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Speaker 3: It's like that to me, just is a huge red flag.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl. Let me give you a virtual high five, virtual hug.

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Speaker 2: Alcohol is the poison of family court. I am so

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Speaker 2: impressed with you. What a great lifestyle. So congratulations, Thank

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Speaker 2: good for you girl, Thank you.

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Speaker 1: What is the number one reason why people are getting

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Speaker 1: divorced when they come into your office.

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Speaker 2: Grown apart different places in life. If I had to

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Speaker 2: pick one, and I get that question a lot, so

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Speaker 2: I would not select infidelity. I think that's really a

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Speaker 2: byproduct of other things that are happening. I have a

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Speaker 2: theory about society with this push to twenty year old people. Everybody,

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Speaker 2: whoever you've been with for a year, it's like, what's

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Speaker 2: the next step in life? Do you want to have kids?

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Speaker 2: What are you doing? I think people young people get

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Speaker 2: married to quickly. If you really go through all of

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Speaker 2: the seasons with someone deal with difficulty, how do you

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Speaker 2: too communicate? I am so lucky. I'm married to a

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Speaker 2: man who's emotionally mature. He can communicate, and I don't

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Speaker 2: see that a heck of a lot. And it's people

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Speaker 2: who are in different places and eventually take the kids

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Speaker 2: out of it, because sometimes people stay married or I'll

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Speaker 2: see you when my kids are fifteen and up because

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Speaker 2: I know this isn't the right relationship for me. But

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Speaker 2: looking back, people see the red flags. I've had more

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Speaker 2: than ten consults in the last year that will say

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Speaker 2: I knew I shouldn't have married this person when we

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Speaker 2: were walking down the aisle. That is so heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I had one of those. I had one of

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Speaker 1: those that went in the bathroom and cried about it

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Speaker 1: because I was like, well, prap.

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Speaker 3: This is the thing with being in the business. It's

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Speaker 3: like it just felt like a dress rehearsal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And why couldn't you Why couldn't you pull

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Speaker 2: out of that moment?

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Speaker 3: Oh? There was no way in hell.

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Speaker 1: We had the magazine you know, thing already they were paying,

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Speaker 1: they paid.

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Speaker 3: I had Bendy Weiss involved, Like this was not.

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Speaker 1: People already had their tickets and how could I How

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Speaker 1: could I ruin people's plans was what my thought was, Like.

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Speaker 3: Their airline tickets or like the tickets to the show.

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Speaker 1: Like the plans, How could I ruin that for them? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they've already spent their money on it.

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Speaker 3: Yep, and nothing. Nothing in our thought process was like

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Speaker 3: maybe this is wrong and I need to like run

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Speaker 3: away bride it.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's yeah, that's the part where it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's sad now to think because I believe and now

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Speaker 1: I know in my you know, this age being forty,

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Speaker 1: that if I would have texted my mom and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I want to actually call this off because I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's right, she would be like, I one thousand percent,

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Speaker 1: I will let everyone know and I will you know,

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Speaker 1: she would have been there. It was just my own

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Speaker 1: embarrassment and maybe you know my not I wasn't one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent sure, so I thought maybe i'd change my mind.

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Speaker 1: I thought maybe i'd get that feeling back when I

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Speaker 1: walked down the aisle.

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Speaker 3: What did you feel when you walked down the aisle?

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Speaker 3: I just out of curiosity, just complete regret. Oh really

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Speaker 3: you were present though with yourself?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, because I told my best friend in the bathroom,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I just made the biggest mistake, and

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Speaker 1: now I don't want to My whole thing was I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be divorced with kids because that's the

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Speaker 1: house that I grew up in. So I was like,

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Speaker 1: I got to divorce them right away because I will

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Speaker 1: end up having babies and then we'll get divorced and

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Speaker 1: I don't want that. So that was why I then

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Speaker 1: did that, you know so, but it was it was wrong,

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Speaker 1: and it was it was real to somebody else, and

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Speaker 1: that wasn't fair, you know.

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Speaker 3: So now would you have gone, would you have stopped everything?

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent? And that's why I think to your point,

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Speaker 1: Kate is marrying later in life, you know yourself more now,

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Speaker 1: and it's I never want to tell like when I

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Speaker 1: hear someone young getting married that's in their middle twenties

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Speaker 1: or you know, like, I'm like, oh gosh, it like

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Speaker 1: almost like breaks my heart and I always want to

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Speaker 1: celebrate love, but I also know how much you grow

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Speaker 1: during those years too.

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Speaker 3: But then also, who am I to say, like what

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Speaker 3: is young?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, maybe they're you know, maybe they'll end

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Speaker 1: up being together forever. So who am I to say?

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Speaker 3: And what a learning lesson? Like what I've like, I've

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Speaker 3: learned so much too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so it's like, why would I want to

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Speaker 1: take that away from people too?

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Speaker 2: You know? Yeah, I do like the discussion of It's

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Speaker 2: part of your story. It makes you part of who

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Speaker 2: you are. But my every day is seeing the heartbreak

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Speaker 2: of divorce and the heartbreak that it brings even the

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Speaker 2: greater family, everybody in the family unit and so young people.

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Speaker 2: I say, and I love weddings and I love love.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, I love the name of this

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Speaker 2: podcast we did. I have a friend who owns a

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Speaker 2: magazine in our community, and we ran a short ad

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Speaker 2: for our Divorce in the Day program that was when

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Speaker 2: your I do needs a redo, do it in a day?

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Speaker 2: And I thought, oh, As soon as I saw the

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Speaker 2: title of this podcast, I thought, that's fantastic, it's great idea.

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Speaker 1: Well, speaking of redos though, I mean, Bill Gates recently

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Speaker 1: made headlines because he was saying, you know, his divorce

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Speaker 1: was the mistake he most regretted. And you know, have

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Speaker 1: you like you kind of spoke on it a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but have you seen people then say never mind? Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you said that they want to maybe do therapy, but

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Speaker 1: do they end up coming back and getting divorced or

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Speaker 1: have you had more people actually pull it off the table, they.

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Speaker 2: Will come back and get divorced. And I saw that,

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Speaker 2: And you know, Bill and Melinda had a long term marriage,

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Speaker 2: and I thought the comment was interesting. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: predict that he doesn't mean he wishes he was still

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Speaker 2: married to her. I think they had their long standing

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Speaker 2: issues and it's a very painful process. It's very difficult.

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Speaker 2: We almost never have people actually reconcile and stay reconciled.

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Speaker 2: I've had couples get divorced, remarried, divorced. I divorced the

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Speaker 2: same couple three times throughout my career, and they're kind

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Speaker 2: of just a love hate toxic strong feelings and no

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Speaker 2: we did a Chris and I did a mediation recently

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Speaker 2: where the couple really felt strongly about their relationship. They

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Speaker 2: knew it was the right thing. They were very sweet people,

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Speaker 2: and they asked us to hold their paperwork. They wanted

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Speaker 2: to give it, you know, a little bit of time

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Speaker 2: and cold within sixty days and said file it. And

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Speaker 2: with the final decree and everything, we don't really see

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Speaker 2: the reconciliation that successful long term.

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Speaker 1: So when you saw j Loo and Ben then reckon.

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Speaker 1: I know they weren't married. They were engaged though, So

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Speaker 1: when you saw them get back to Gareth and get married,

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Speaker 1: did you already go divorce?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? They're just like that. I mean, it really is

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Speaker 2: just like that couple. And of course they have the

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Speaker 2: heighten the money, the attention, everything that goes along with

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Speaker 2: being in a lister and everybody's watching, which makes it

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Speaker 2: more painful. I mean, you've seen some of Jlo's statements,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's incredibly painful. I also think that

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Speaker 2: very famous celebrities tend to have traits of loneliness because

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Speaker 2: that is such an isolating life to live.

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Speaker 3: I think I mean that's because they're not though finding

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Speaker 3: the true love, which happens within you, right, like you

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Speaker 3: complete you regardless, like there is no other person that

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Speaker 3: would fill that void for you. So if you haven't

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Speaker 3: done that work individually as two separate people, it's going

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Speaker 3: to be really hard that you are leaving it up

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Speaker 3: for so many expectations on one another that you're bound

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Speaker 3: to not ever live up to it.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and not as a negative to people like

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Speaker 2: Ben and Jlo who have those goes. I don't mean

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Speaker 2: that in a negative way. It's just part of their personality.

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Speaker 2: But how exhausting to support someone as fabulous and famous

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Speaker 2: as you are all the time and have that constant

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Speaker 2: balance in your life. How do they find a balance?

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Speaker 2: I think? But yeah, I figure they'll be they'll be

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Speaker 2: splitting up again.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's easier or more complicated to get

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Speaker 1: divorce late in life?

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Speaker 3: Easier the silver divorce? Oh yeah?

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Speaker 1: So Chery, what is that? Because I you know, I

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Speaker 1: saw you were talking about silver divorce, so I have

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. Tell me what I mean?

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Speaker 3: I just found out today, But silver divorce is like

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Speaker 3: when you divorce later in life, right when you're like

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Speaker 3: in your fifty fifty sixties. I think and you realize that, Wow,

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Speaker 3: this is not the person I want to live my

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Speaker 3: rest of my life with. But I also think it's generational, right, So,

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Speaker 3: like I just think about my parents right now. I

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Speaker 3: come from a divorce family, but my mom remarried my

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Speaker 3: stepfather and if they were too divorced. Today, there's so

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Speaker 3: much it's generational in the sense of first of all,

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Speaker 3: when my mom, you know, was being raised by her parents,

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Speaker 3: there was no such thing like there. She's Filipino, she's

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Speaker 3: very Catholic, and there's a lot of shame that comes

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Speaker 3: with it. But I think with how open we are

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Speaker 3: now with mental health, I think it's leaving that door

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Speaker 3: maybe a little bit open for that generation nowadays to

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Speaker 3: be like, you know what, I'm going to choose me.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And my message to women is choose you

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Speaker 2: when you're forty or when the kids are out of

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Speaker 2: the house. I have a lot of experience with gray

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Speaker 2: or silver divorce, whichever you call it. We're my law

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Speaker 2: firms in Phoenix. We're very close to a lot of

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Speaker 2: retirement communities, as you can imagine, and I have had

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Speaker 2: a lot of the both men and women in their seventies, eighties,

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Speaker 2: late eighties. Can you imagine going through this awful process.

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Speaker 2: The silver lining is that they're pretty calm about the

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Speaker 2: whole situation. And here's the sad part. This is my

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Speaker 2: message to middle aged women, because they knew say it's

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Speaker 2: a silver divorce, that they have been truly married fifty years,

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Speaker 2: not a second marriage, and the kids are long gone.

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Speaker 2: All of the properties community they all say they First

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Speaker 2: of all, everybody tells me how many years they've been

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Speaker 2: living in separate bedrooms, how long it's been since they've

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Speaker 2: had sex with each other, And it's decades, I mean

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Speaker 2: decades that they've been living as roommates. And it's such

404
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 2: an awful process. No one wanted to start it, but

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Speaker 2: it we all know where the three of us are

406
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Speaker 2: about the same age. When you're fifty, you have a

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Speaker 2: whole life ahead of you. I mean that's the heartbreaking

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Speaker 2: part when I see the silver divorce because they've been

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Speaker 2: you know, they've been roommates for decades. Frankly, I see

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Speaker 2: it the opposite.

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Speaker 3: Like I think it's a beautiful thing that they're like

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Speaker 3: finally seeing themselves, like as their own person, and like

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Speaker 3: we do, we evolve, and sometimes it's with that person

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Speaker 3: you've decided to partner with, and sometimes it's not, and

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Speaker 3: that's okay. But I think it's beautiful that they're opening

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Speaker 3: their eyes and trying to walk the rest of their

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Speaker 3: life in a present hopefully loving themselves way, you know,

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Speaker 3: and doing that work. And I think it's really beautiful.

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Speaker 2: It is beautiful. You're right. But it's always because the

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Speaker 2: husband gets a girlfriend.

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Speaker 3: I mean, but like you said earlier, it's deeper than that.

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Speaker 3: It's so much deeper. I don't think it's that just

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Speaker 3: because of that. I think there was, like like you said,

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Speaker 3: decades of not sleeping together, roommate like that goes. I

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Speaker 3: have had that same experience, except not even close to

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Speaker 3: as long as those people have been married. You know.

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Speaker 3: That's feeling of stagnant, like that stagnation feeling. I am out,

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Speaker 3: I'm out fast, I can't be in it.

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Speaker 2: You're right that it is much better. And with these

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Speaker 2: communities that we have in this area, there's so many

431
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 2: activities and new friend groups and support groups and any

432
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 2: new beginning or a chance that finding yourself is worth it.

433
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 3: I agree.

434
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,919
Speaker 1: Is it hard for you to be a divorce lawyer?

435
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: It's not. And I can't really explain the reason, because

436
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 2: most of my colleagues find it to be incredibly difficult

437
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 2: on a personal level. They take the feelings home with

438
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 2: them and I've just never been like that, and I

439
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 2: don't really know the reason. I'm just suited for the job.

440
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: I see it as a puzzle. I really, really I

441
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 2: could be a life coach in another life. Although I'm

442
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 2: not trained for that. I really enjoy it and I've

443
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 2: as after thirty, I no longer work every hour of

444
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 2: the week. I have really good boundaries. All my clients

445
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: have my cell phone number. They appropriately I really like

446
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 2: my job. But if other divorce lawyers are telling you

447
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: the truth, I think I'm in the minority on that.

448
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 3: How do you separate the emotion? Like, how do you

449
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 3: do that it.

450
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 2: Stays at the office. I really treat this as a

451
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 2: job that I like. I care about my clients. I

452
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 2: think they really care. I have wonderful clients. I'm very

453
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 2: realistic with people. You probably know divorce attorneys can treat

454
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 2: the job as making a lot of money, fighting a lot,

455
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 2: filing a lot of emotions, billing by the hour. The

456
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 2: more fighting, the sooner my kids get their college paid.

457
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a reality of the job, and our

458
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: business model is saving people money, keeping the emotions in check.

459
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: I'm very realistic with them up front. We talk about

460
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 2: their goals, we talk about the law, we talk about

461
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 2: the process, we talk about mediation, and I our office

462
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,719
Speaker 2: is trying to change the culture of divorce in Arizona,

463
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 2: and that's how I treat it.

464
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: Would you recommend a prenup for people that get married.

465
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 2: I do recommend a prenup, and I don't think that

466
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 2: it should hold the stereotype of you're getting a prenup

467
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 2: and that's anti love, or if you're going to be together,

468
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 2: you don't need it. I think there are many benefits

469
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 2: to a prenup and anybody who's not twenty with nothing

470
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: should consider it.

471
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for sure. I guess my piece with the divorce,

472
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: just for my personal stuff is the fact that you know,

473
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: I pay my ex husband. I paid him a lump sum,

474
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: and I also pay him child support and I have

475
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: the kids seventy it's seventy thirty split. So I find

476
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: it I always get a little like frustrated when I

477
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: have conversations of just you know, because divorce and because

478
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: it kind of just brings up all those you know,

479
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: those feelings and that resentment and it's just it's just yuck.

480
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 2: I don't like.

481
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 3: I wish you would have planned a prenup.

482
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: We had a post up, but the problem was my

483
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: divorce lawyer said it's not going to hold up in

484
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: court as well as a prenup, and he's like, he

485
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: technically can fight it and he could still technically win half,

486
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, which my ex husband at the time was like,

487
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: I will never fight this, you know what I mean, which,

488
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 1: of course when we got divorced, he's like, I'm going

489
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: to fight this. But apparently again they the prenup will

490
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: always hold up. And then if is that right or wrong?

491
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: Prenup holds up better than post.

492
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 2: Up, that's exactly right.

493
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: So that's why, you know, with that situation, it's uh,

494
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 1: I wish for sure I would have had signed a

495
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: prenup with him prenup, but you know, at the end

496
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: of the day, I still would be paying child support.

497
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: That is the law of with the things, and that's

498
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: you know, a whole other story.

499
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 3: But feel free to tell me too off, But did

500
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 3: you sign one this time around?

501
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: So we have never discussed that. We're still not going

502
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: to discuss that. But but you know, it was it

503
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: was a very long conversation. We had a lot of

504
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: conversation around it, and uh, I think it's really hard

505
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: for men to have that conversation, especially you know, my

506
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: husband is very old school and you know, did not

507
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: love the idea of it. And you know, whatever we

508
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: decided was a private matter, but it was something that

509
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: was very important to say. It was very important to

510
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: me because of how much was taken from my ex,

511
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: how much my ex husband took.

512
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: I think you probably, even if you did or didn't

513
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 2: having that conversation, you were miles ahead of most people

514
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 2: because it's such a tough topic. If you two talked

515
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,719
Speaker 2: it through and talked about all your assets and what

516
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,239
Speaker 2: you think for the future, that's you're doing better than

517
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 2: a lot of people before they get married.

518
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 1: So super But my my divorce attorney was definitely likes

519
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: you are have it like there's no like. He's like,

520
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: you are signing this, and I'm just like, Okay, I

521
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: hear you and I need to have we have to

522
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: have conversations. It's it's a conversation piece because I am

523
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: you know, old school and the fact that I do

524
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: believe in you know, love and a marriage actually lasting.

525
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: I you know, I didn't get it right this go around.

526
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: And that's why I love this podcast because this is

527
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: about you know, I do part two and you know, Cheryl,

528
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: I didn't get it right a couple of times. And Cheryl,

529
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: you know you didn't. We thought you got it right,

530
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But I think there's a

531
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: piece of that I do Part two that I that

532
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: I love and where you know, as sad as when

533
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: I asked you the question about you know, is it

534
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: hard for you? Because I believe that as much as

535
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,719
Speaker 1: divorce makes me so sad, Cheryl, I've seen from watching

536
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: you on the outside of things you have, there's a

537
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: different aura about you now. You're happier, you're lighter, You've

538
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: like I see it from just watching your stories. And

539
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: I love that people have their next chapters and that

540
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: they get to fall in love again and find love

541
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: that they deserve and that suits them and that you know,

542
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: respects them. And so that is like so beautiful and

543
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: you've come into your own and like it's just it's

544
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: really beautiful to witness someone falling in love with themselves

545
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: for then that person to fall in love with them

546
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: and respect them the way that they deserve. So, you know,

547
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: I appreciate Kate you coming on and talking to us,

548
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: and you know, I just I look forward to all

549
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: the people that have their part too, Cheryl, yours is

550
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: coming up. See it's common, it's common. I feel the

551
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: glow up I do. I just I see it and

552
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: I love the lightness in you. You know, you've you've,

553
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: You've entered the lights.

554
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 3: Definitely different from our last conversation.

555
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, Kate, thank you so much for coming on.

556
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: Thank you both.

557
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: Are you divorced? Navigating what your I Do Part two

558
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: could look like? I need some advice? Call us or

559
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: email us, follow us on socials. All the information will

560
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: be in the show notes. Make sure to rate and

561
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: review the podcast I Do Part two and iHeartRadio podcast

562
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: where falling in love is the main objective. Love you, Cheryl,

563
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: Love you,