1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:15,159 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with me. It's a grease you think we 2 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: would ever hear the last of Susan Smith. Yes, Susan Smith, 3 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: remember her? Okay, you know what. I'm going to play 4 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: a nine on one call to jog your memory. But 5 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: first I mean to see grace and this is Crime Stories. 6 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: I've got an all star panel with me to make 7 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: sense of what's happening with Susan Smith right now. Thank 8 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Crime Stories and 9 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: on Serious XEM one eleven. See if this jogs your memory, 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: listen good ma'aol lovey. 11 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: He's a lady. 12 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 3: You come on dot door and see some guy dum 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 3: to a red light with her car, put her two 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 3: kids in it, and he took off and she got 15 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 3: out of call here at Ohio. 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: Yes, laol, let her call it. 17 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 3: I don't I need to go along, you know down 18 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 3: here Anna Cary, but we need to. 19 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: Aga prody day. 20 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 4: What color? Was it? 21 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 5: A burgundy? 22 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 3: Magda protege? 23 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 6: We don't get him going pay him? 24 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: I got two. I love that degree of detail. You know. 25 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: I don't even know where to go first because I've 26 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: got such awesome experts. But I'm going to go first 27 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: with Chris mcdonna. He is the director of Cold Case Foundation. Okay, 28 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: don't care. Former homicide detective starting to care, getting warm, 29 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: getting warm, getting hotter. He has his own YouTube channel, 30 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: the Interview Room where I found him. You can find 31 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: him at Coldcase Foundation dot org or on the Interview Room. 32 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: Former homicide detective. Three hundred ish homicide scenes under his belt. 33 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna, don't you love the degree of detail? Hey? 34 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: You know what? Send me? Sometimes you got to hear 35 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: the best stuff. Can you play that one more time? Listen? Yes, 36 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: layol love and. 37 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 3: He's a lady. You come on out door and she's 38 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 3: some guy dumping into a red light with her car 39 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 3: with her two kids in it, and he took off. 40 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 3: He got out of call here at Ohio. Yes, layo, 41 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 3: let her call it. I don't see and I need 42 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 3: to go along. 43 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: Get him down here, Anna Cary. 44 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 3: But we need to add we kind of up a 45 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 3: magna protege. 46 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: What color was it? 47 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 3: A burgundy magna protege. 48 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: We don't get him going payhim? They got take I'll 49 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: call all the detail, Chris McDonough. She's quote real hysterical 50 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: and you need to call along and get him down 51 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: here right now, and you hear her feeding details in 52 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: the background. 53 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 7: Nancy wasn't deaf the narratives that captivated America. 54 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: How can you be so calm? 55 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 7: You know, we just get used to it. 56 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, right it's what somebody still get very angry, very angry. 57 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: And I know the end of this story. But the detail. 58 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen perps and they will spin you 59 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: a yarn with such incredibly rich detail. 60 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 7: Yeah, and typically that detail, if it's that minutia and 61 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 7: that amount, is typically a sign of deception. And she 62 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 7: kicked it off right from that nine one one. 63 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 8: Call from the beginning, the beginning, running up to somebody's 64 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 8: house talking about some guy jumps out, and you know 65 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 8: this occurs in rural Union County, South Carolina, near the 66 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 8: John D. 67 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: Long Lake. And you know, hold on, Chris McDonald, where 68 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: do you live, Chris? 69 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 7: Well, right now, I'm in Arizona, but I lived in 70 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 7: South Carolina right there in Mount Plus. 71 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: You're very familiar with this area. Let me go to 72 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: another country boy like this country girl right here and 73 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan joining me, although he's gotten pretty high 74 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: falutin a professor Forensis Jacksonville State University, author of Blood 75 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet, still waiting on another book to come out. 76 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: Host of Bodybag's hit podcast, now starring My Goodness Joe 77 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 1: Scott In The Pike County Murders A Family Massacre is 78 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: going to premiere on Oxygen November twenty four at eight pm. 79 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: There is going to be the first Pike County murder, 80 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: then the second Pike County murder after the first one, 81 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: November twenty four at eight pm on Oxygen. Then the 82 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: next night, Friday Night, the third episode of Pike County 83 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: Murders A Family Masacre. Am I through plugging everything? Or 84 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: is there? What are you starting in a movie with 85 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: Meryl Streep? Am I leaving anything out? Joe Scott Morgan, 86 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: I'm exhausted after all of that. I know I'm completely 87 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: exhausted just reading your CV. But that said, this area 88 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: Chris mcdonoughh has lived in South Carolina. I've gone to 89 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: this scene before. It's extremely rural, and I'm supposed to 90 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: believe A guy jumps out of what from behind a 91 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: stop sign and hijacks her car and takes off with 92 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: the children clearly in the back seat. Two little boys. 93 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, what are the odds that you're going to have 94 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 2: somebody that wants to do this kind of harm, whether 95 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 2: or not they had an awareness that these poor little 96 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,799 Speaker 2: angels were buckled down in those back seats, the fact 97 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 2: that you would have this kind of aggressive behavior in 98 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: that location where she was specifically targeted as an investigator, 99 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 2: I'm certainly going to raise an eyebrow and I'm going 100 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 2: to take a long look at what she has to say, because, 101 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 2: as you and I both know, Nancy, the line share, 102 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 2: the line share of home sides that we talked about 103 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: have some kind of familial connection. That means that you're around, 104 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 2: intimate those individuals that are most important. So you're going 105 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 2: to tell me that random stranger just came up and 106 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: kidnapped these babies and run off with them and left 107 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 2: her standing on the side of the road weeping. 108 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: Now, did you hear what he just did? Chris mcdonah, 109 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: I am going along with everything he says, but he's 110 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: a wily one. You got to really watching watch what 111 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: Joe Scott says. I agree with the whole rural aspect, 112 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: but did you hear him say if the unknown male 113 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: assailant noticed the children in the back seat? I'm looking 114 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: right now at a ninety four Mazda Protege, you can 115 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: see straight into the back seat from every angle of 116 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: the car. It's not like you know, you see those 117 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: black su these with tended windows, you can't see what's 118 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: going on in there. No, you can see exactly what's 119 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: going on in the back seat. And I'm looking at 120 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: a shot from the distance, I can see through the 121 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: back window, through the back dash, and through the other 122 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,799 Speaker 1: side of the car. Whoever took the car could definitely 123 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: see that children were strapped into car seats in the 124 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: back seat. I mean, okay, you know what, Let's take 125 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: a listen to the nine one one call. Listen union one. 126 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 3: Of us, one of five gohead said it was a 127 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 3: black male driving a burg Indeed, protegead affirmit that won 128 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: to find. 129 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 5: They had two jeweled wit It was one I find 130 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 5: for one understood these were small children. 131 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 6: These are her children, and she jumped out of the car, 132 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 6: and he took the car with the children and he 133 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 6: headed toy Chestra one hundred heed the. 134 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: Victors call family from one I gathered by the call, 135 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: they are not this is a stranger that had jumped 136 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: in the lady's car. 137 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: At a red light, and she jumped. 138 00:07:55,720 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: Out, I mean really, Tara, and I'm leading up to 139 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: what Susan Smith is doing right now. And let me 140 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: tell you that involves six different men, that said Tara, 141 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: Malick joining me out of Boise, Idaho co owner Smith 142 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: and Malik, former state and federal prosecutor. Tara once again 143 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: blame the black man. I remember when this happened. I 144 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: was trying a case and I looked over at my friend, 145 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: my colleague, who went on to be a judge, I 146 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: might add, and I went, herman, have you seen the 147 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: composite of the guy that Susan Smith described? And yeah, 148 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: I know what you're gonna say, Yeah, it looks just 149 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: like you. It looked just like Herman Sloan, my trial 150 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: partner who had come into court to bail me out 151 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: of some sling. I got in with the judge with 152 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: some law trying to suggest that I was right and 153 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: whatever I did, but he went, yeah, I've heard I 154 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: looked just like this, Susan Smith purk and he did. 155 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: I mean, think about it, Tara, an innocent person could 156 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: have been arrested and probably tried and convicted based on 157 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: her fake composite and all of her lies like my herman, 158 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: one of my best friends in the DA's office. Yeah. 159 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 5: Absolutely, I mean the crime itself was atrocious and horrific 160 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 5: and terrible. And then and then, you know, to give 161 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 5: this false profile of someone else who may have done it, 162 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 5: wasting resources, law enforcement resources, wasting everybody's time, but also, 163 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 5: like you said, putting somebody else potentially in jeopardy of 164 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 5: being picked. 165 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 7: Up for it. 166 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 5: And it's just mind boggling. 167 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 9: That she would go down this road. 168 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: You know, I've dealt with the sod defense many times. 169 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: I named it that some other d did it. So 170 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: d D, here you go, some other dude did it, 171 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: and listen to her. Listen. 172 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 4: I would like us to stay to whoever has my children, 173 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 4: that they please please bring. 174 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:15,599 Speaker 1: Them home. 175 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 4: To us where they belong. 176 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: You play that one more time. 177 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 4: I would like us to stay to whoever has my children, 178 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 4: that they please they please bring them home to us 179 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 4: where they belong. 180 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Greece, Doctor Bethany Marshall. I hate 181 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: to drag you away from all your clients on radio 182 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: drive complaining about how expensive this she use and the 183 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: designer bags are. By the way, I think I've told 184 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 1: you this, it's rodeo, r odeo. It is not rodeo. 185 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: That said doctor Bethany Marshall joining with us as much 186 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: as I'm pulling her legs. She's a renownced psychoanalyst at 187 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. As a matter of fact, 188 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: she now has a recurring role in Paris in Love 189 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: season two. That said, doctor Bethany, I don't get it 190 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: right now, we've got that. I know of six men, 191 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: six men sexting and texting and writing and sending money 192 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: and love letters to Susan Smith when she is a 193 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: ball faced liar that your children in the worst way, 194 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: letting her car, her Burgundy protege go down a ramp 195 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: with the two boys alive, strapped in the back seat. 196 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: Why I don't get it. Why would men want to 197 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: be with this woman, send her money and sex text 198 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 1: with her? But did you hear her lie? Do you 199 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: remember when that happened? Crying and the snotting and all 200 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: that happening. And I want to say, you ever has 201 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: my children, they please please bring them home to us 202 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: where they belong, knowing full well they drowned strapped in 203 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: their car seats. 204 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 9: We'll show how immature she is at the most basic 205 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 9: level that she. 206 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: Okay, the most you could say she's immature. She murdered 207 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: two little boys. 208 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 9: We know she's a sociopath, but what beyond the fact 209 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 9: that she's a sociopath, what additional factors are there that 210 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 9: would lead to this? And one is an over attachment 211 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 9: to men. And she loves that feeling of falling in love, 212 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 9: the feeling you have the first day. 213 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: How are you linking this to double murder. Why this 214 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: woman did not get the death penalty, I do not know. 215 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: And now there's six guys trying to have sex with 216 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: are really. 217 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 9: Ill, But it's really a pathological attachment to men, like 218 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 9: being in a barrel with a rattlesnake. 219 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: Who was that? 220 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 9: Well, apparently they do. And you know, women who couldn't fantaside, 221 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 9: who kill their children often have some really First of all, 222 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 9: they were usually what we call cluster B then or not. 223 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: I really have some sexy measure going on, because I'm 224 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: totally cutting your mind. 225 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 9: Okay, So their cluster B which means they have three 226 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 9: different disorders sociopathy, bipolar, and borderline. Often they have a 227 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 9: very pathological attachment to men. Either they kill the children 228 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 9: to get back at the love object, like I'm going 229 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 9: to kill our children because I'm mad at you. I 230 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 9: hard to describe this without really sounding like it's trite, 231 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 9: but it's These are the underpinnings of what these women do. 232 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 9: So it's either I'm going to kill the children to 233 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 9: get back at you, or I'm going to kill the 234 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 9: children if they found a new guy, and I don't 235 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 9: want the children to be in the way. 236 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: Interesting that you said that, interesting, But I also want 237 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: you to hear the level of detail that she waves 238 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: into her big fat lie about her two murdered little boys. 239 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine. I'm more excruciating death than being 240 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: strapped in a car, can't get out. The car goes 241 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: underwater a muddy lake, and you're in the car screaming 242 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: for mommy as that car fills up with water till 243 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: you drown. Listen to our cut for Crime Online. 244 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 6: On the night of October twenty fifth, Susan Smith knocks 245 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 6: on the door of a house John D. Long Lake. 246 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 6: She's hysterical when the man answers the door and tells 247 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 6: him to call the police. A black man just carjacked 248 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 6: her at a red light he had a gun and 249 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 6: she jumped out of the car, but her two boys, 250 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 6: three year old Michael and fourteen month old Alex, are 251 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 6: still in the car. Police begins searching immediately, and the 252 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 6: nation's media converges on Union, South Carolina for eight days. 253 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 6: Susan Smith tells an ever changing story of the carjacking, 254 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 6: and friends get irritated when she keeps asking if Tom 255 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 6: Findley has reached out to see her. Friends wonder why 256 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 6: she would care about Findley when her two children are missing. 257 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 6: On day nine of intense media pressure, Susan Smith meets 258 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 6: with Union County Sheriff Howard Wells, and Wells meets with 259 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 6: the press. 260 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: Okay, note to self, who is Tom Finley? But there's more. 261 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: There's more. Listen. 262 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 6: Susan Smith has carried the line as far as she can. 263 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 6: When she finally admits what she's done, there never was 264 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 6: a black man with a gun that stole her car 265 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 6: with her kids in the back. She now says she 266 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 6: went out for a d with their sons buckled into 267 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 6: their car seats in the back. Feeling desperate, alone and suicidal. 268 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 6: She now says she drove to John D. Long Lake 269 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 6: and planned to roll the car into the lake. Smith 270 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 6: puts the car in neutral, but instead of going into 271 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 6: the lake with the car and the boys, she jumps 272 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 6: out and watches the car sink. Based on her directions 273 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 6: for where the car should be, scuba divers locate the 274 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 6: vehicle with the boys in the back still buckled into 275 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 6: their seats. 276 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: Just let that soakn for just one moment, claiming you know, 277 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: why is it, Chris mcdona, that all these people that 278 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: want to commit suicide end up killing their children or 279 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: their family or somebody else hed they miraculously live. 280 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, just a horrific thought in of itself, right, 281 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 7: Nancamy Knight. I actually drove the entire route that Susan 282 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 7: Smith took that day. There were ample opportunities for her 283 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 7: to change her mind and turn around. I mean there 284 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 7: were stop signs, there were you know, through residential neighborhoods. 285 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 7: And to think that she was saying to the public, 286 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 7: you know, or to the police when she initially confessed, well, 287 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 7: you know, I thought about committing suicide, but I couldn't 288 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 7: do it, et cetera. So I jumped out. You know, 289 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 7: when you go to that boat ramp where these poor 290 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 7: little babies are strapped in those back seats and as 291 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 7: that car is going down that ramp, I would submit 292 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 7: to you she had gotten out of that car almost 293 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 7: immediately and let that car go to your point a 294 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 7: couple of minutes ago. And as that water started to 295 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 7: fill that vehicle, can you imagine the horror that these 296 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:41,239 Speaker 7: children were experiencing and the mother standing there as that 297 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 7: vehicle started to sink. It took about six I think 298 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 7: between six to fifteen seconds for that vehicle to hit 299 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 7: the water, and within a minute it was submerged. 300 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 9: Yanthia just shows how cold blood she is. She could 301 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 9: stand on the shore look at the car submerged and 302 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 9: knowing that her babies were drowning. It really gives you 303 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 9: insight into how detached and just cold blooded she is. 304 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, who is this woman? Take a listen hour cut 305 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: three from crime online dot Com. 306 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 6: After high school, she began dating David Smith. Soon there's 307 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 6: a baby on the way and the pair decided to 308 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 6: get married. Ultimately, they have two boys, Michael Daniel and 309 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 6: Alexander Tyler, but the children don't keep the marriage together. 310 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 6: The Smith separate several times. During one of these separations, 311 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 6: Susan Smith begins dating Tom Findley the single son of 312 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 6: a wealthy mill owner. 313 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: Aha, So that is who Tom Finley is, Okay. Tara Mallick, 314 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: high profile lawyer joining us from our own law firm, 315 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,479 Speaker 1: Smith and Mallet. Would that be motive she wants to 316 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: be with this rich guy? Yeah? 317 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 5: I think you know, the painted in different ways during 318 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 5: the trial itself, and there was some conflicting testimony. One 319 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 5: of the theories of the case that was put on 320 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 5: and suspected was that she wanted. 321 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 9: To be with Thomas Finley. 322 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 5: Finley didn't like the fact that, you know, she had 323 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 5: two kids, and in a way or in an attempt 324 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 5: to get back together with Finley, who she was having 325 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 5: an affair with, you know, she drowned her two boys. 326 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 5: The other testimony that was presented during the trial was that, 327 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 5: you know, she was someone who was an abused child, 328 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 5: she had had a secret affair with her stepfather, she 329 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 5: was frightened of her. 330 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 7: Husband, you know. 331 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 9: And so I think those. 332 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 5: Details this jury ended up grappling with. And it's a 333 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 5: case that should have been a death penalty case, but 334 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 5: unfortunately not here. 335 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: You know, isn't it true? Dave matt joining us from 336 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 1: crime online dot Com that Finley broke it off with 337 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: her claimbing he did not want an instant family. 338 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 6: He did and nanty more to the point, are more 339 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 6: than just saying I don't want kids. There were other 340 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 6: things he stated in there about her and their relationship. 341 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 6: He also cited their different upbringings and that that was 342 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 6: a big stumbling block. Another one the way Susan Smith 343 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 6: acted and flirted with other men. He didn't like that, 344 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 6: so he mentioned three basic things that he really didn't 345 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 6: want an instant family. But these other two things were 346 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 6: mentioned as well, And one was her own behavior of 347 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 6: hitting on other men. But she dismisses that in her 348 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 6: thought process, blames it all on the kids and thinks 349 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 6: she's seen get them back if she just gets rid 350 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 6: of that. She doesn't address the fact that she hits 351 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 6: on men all the time. 352 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: So let me understand something, Dave Matt. She met Finley, 353 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: the son of the rich guy, when she and her 354 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: husband were what divorce separated? 355 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 9: What separated? 356 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 6: They actually when they were married, they had several full 357 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 6: on separations where they were not living together, were dating 358 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 6: other people, and yet they would then get back together 359 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 6: and it was on and off for I think, I 360 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 6: mean after they had the last time he was fourteen 361 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 6: months old. Well, this happened, so it was an ongoing 362 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 6: process in their relationship, that breaking out getting back together. 363 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: Let me get back to doctor Bethony Marshall, what do 364 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: you make of this? It was always presented that Finley 365 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: broke up with her because he didn't want an instant family, 366 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: But according to the letter he sent her before she 367 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: murdered her to little Boys, it was a lot more 368 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: than that. 369 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 9: He's probably minimizing it because now he has the scrutiny 370 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 9: of the country and the court and saying, well, I 371 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 9: didn't really want her anyway. But there's partially, I think 372 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 9: a half truth in that maybe he wasn't ready for 373 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 9: a family and children and he was contemplating that. And 374 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 9: I think Susan Smith was the kind of woman who 375 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 9: would just ignore the fact that he didn't want to 376 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 9: be with her. She would think, oh, you know, i'll 377 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 9: buy any dress. Oh I'll go shopping. Oh i'll buy 378 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 9: some listic, I'll wear a low dress. Oh I'll just 379 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 9: kill my children. I mean just she would just throw 380 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 9: everything at it to get him back. So I think 381 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 9: if he was ambivalent about her, that may have even 382 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 9: incentivized her to kill her children. 383 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: Okay, I obviously need to reword my question. There were 384 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: other behaviors he found disturbing which led to his decision 385 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: to break it off with her. Not only that he 386 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: did not want an instant family, but he did not 387 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: like the way she acted promiscuously with other guys. He 388 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: didn't want that. 389 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 9: I think some women relate primarily to men because they 390 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 9: feel they can seduce them, and I think this was 391 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 9: probably her mo that the minute she met a man, 392 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 9: she would be furicacious, she would be overly sexualized, she 393 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 9: would try to attract them. She probably did that all 394 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 9: the time because this is a way of feeling important, 395 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 9: like she's a real person in the real world, and 396 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 9: she doesn't really have to relate to the man. If 397 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 9: it's sexual in an instant, then they never become real 398 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 9: people to her. They're all just objects, little objects who 399 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 9: flatter her. 400 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 6: Listen, now are cut for Susan Smith is planning a 401 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 6: future with the best catch in the county. When she 402 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 6: gets a Dear John letter from Dear Tom, he explains 403 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 6: he doesn't think the relationship will work because of the 404 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 6: difference in their upbringing, the way she acts towards other men, 405 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 6: and he doesn't want an instant family. He doesn't want 406 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 6: children right now, Susan dismisses her upbringing or her behavior 407 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 6: towards other men as possible deal breakers in the relationship. 408 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 6: And the only thing she sees is Tom Finley doesn't 409 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 6: want children, so. 410 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 1: She ignores everything except the children part of the complaint, 411 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 1: and then suddenly, poof, they're gone. In the last days, 412 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: Susan Smith back in the news, apparently having a romantic 413 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: relationship with at least six men behind bars. Okay, what 414 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: does that mean? Well, there are precursors to today's report 415 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: of Susan Smith's relationships with six guys. What precursors will 416 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: listener ourcut ten. 417 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 6: A tabloid news report claiming Susan Smith had been beaten 418 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 6: by guards at a prison in South Carolina gave birth 419 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,479 Speaker 6: to an investigation into the matter. While there was no 420 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 6: proof she had been beaten, Smith told prison investigators that 421 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 6: she had four sexual encounters. Lieutenant Houston Cagele, a supervisor 422 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 6: at South Carolina's Women's Correctional Institution WCI, where she's confined. 423 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 6: Cagil admitted having sex with Smith and another prisoner and 424 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 6: was charged with the offense in August of two thousand. 425 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 6: Smith was twenty eight at the time and was disciplined 426 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 6: for having sex with the guard, while fifty year old 427 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 6: Kagel pleaded guilty and spent three months in jail. In 428 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 6: two thousand and one, a prison captain, Alfred Rowe, also 429 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 6: pleaded guilty to having sex with Smith and was sentenced 430 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 6: to five years probation. It was then discovered that Susan 431 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 6: Smith engaged in sexual relations with Cagel after she tested 432 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 6: positive for an STD. 433 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: Okay, so she claims I was beaten and that spawns 434 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: an investigation, but it turns out she wasn't beaten. She 435 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: was sleeping with various prison guards. Just Scott Morgan remind me, 436 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: what is it like to drown? You're the death investigator. 437 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 2: One of the most horrible desks that you can even 438 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 2: begin to think about. And the fact is, the thing 439 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 2: that's always bothered me about this case, Nancy, is that 440 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 2: with Alex and Michael, and I think it's really important 441 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: that I say their names at this moment in time 442 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 2: because they are the victims. When they were strapped in 443 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 2: those little seats in the back of that Mazda and 444 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 2: that tight, little confined place where maybe their mother had 445 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 2: taken them to McDonald's before, had taken them all over town, 446 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 2: and suddenly they're at the edge of a boat ramp 447 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 2: and they're thinking, you know, what's mama doing? Now? You know, 448 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 2: she gets out of the car and as that car 449 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 2: is left and neutral and goes down that boat ramp 450 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 2: and begins to slowly sink beneath those dark waters out there. 451 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 2: You know, they found that car about one hundred and 452 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 2: twenty feet off of the shore. The dive team had 453 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 2: looked for it for some period of time. Car was 454 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: filled with water. Those kids were still strapped in that 455 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,959 Speaker 2: back seat. And our reaction as humans, if we're trying 456 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 2: to catch our breath, is to fight. And just imagine this, Nancy, 457 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 2: they're strapped. We've all got babies in our families that 458 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 2: we've taken care of. We strapped them in car seats. 459 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 2: And you ever seen a child struggle to get out 460 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 2: of the car seat. 461 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: They're tired of. 462 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 2: Being in it. Well, imagine that only water's creeping up 463 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 2: on you. Water's getting into your nose, your little mouth, 464 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 2: your eyes, You're running out of oxygen. Your brain is screaming. 465 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: It's on fire because there's no oxygen, you can't catch 466 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 2: your breath, and you have no idea. It's panic that's 467 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 2: setting in and it would not have been. I just 468 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 2: wanted to spell any kind of fans see somebody might 469 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 2: be having right now, that this was a sudden and 470 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 2: a quick death. It wasn't. It was torturous. It was 471 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 2: absolutely horrific what these babies went through at that moment, 472 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 2: Tom Nancy, And I'm with you. I'm still to this 473 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: day just befuddled. Why she's not sitting on death row 474 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 2: and you know, forever and ever she's getting going with 475 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 2: her life. No, isn't She and those babies died, died 476 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 2: at this monster's hands out there out there in that lake. 477 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: Knowing full well what she did, immediately running to a 478 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: nearby home, claiming that an unknown male had jumped into 479 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: her car. And I guess the only red light in 480 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: the county. And I feel okay saying that because where 481 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: I grew up that we didn't even have a red light, 482 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: So out of the entire county, an unknown assailant jumps 483 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: into her car at the one red light, takes her 484 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,719 Speaker 1: car and murders her children. Okay, this is the woman. 485 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: These guys want to be with. Now six at least 486 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 1: six men speaking of them, there's a matter of Captain 487 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: Alfred Rowe. Now we heard about Cagel Kagile, a supervisor 488 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: at South Carolina Women's ci Correctional Institute, and what happened 489 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: with him. We know that he was ultimately identified because 490 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: Susan Smith turned up with an std behind bars. But 491 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: there's more. Take a listen to our cut eleven. Does 492 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: she not realize there are consequences to actions. 493 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 6: Captain Alfred Smith was one of the guards who lost 494 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 6: their careers after having sex with Susan Smith behind bars. 495 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 6: Rose says Smith is a master manipulator, telling Inside Edition 496 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 6: that Smith approached him at three in the morning, telling 497 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 6: him she thought he was the nicest officer at the 498 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 6: prison and that she was lonely. The former guard says 499 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 6: things just escalated from there. Roe claims he had sex 500 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 6: with Smith one time, but it cost him everything. He 501 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 6: was fired from the job, lost his pension, and after 502 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 6: pleading guilty to having sex with Smith, he was sentenced 503 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 6: to five years probation. 504 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: Now that's Captain Alfred Rowe who loses his job. He's fired, 505 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: lost his pension. That he's been working for for years 506 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: and plays guilty and gets put on probation. Is that 507 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: a hallmark of this type of personality? Dr Bethany Marshall 508 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: That there are they think there are no consequences to 509 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: what they do, or they don't worry about the consequences. 510 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: How does that work? 511 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 9: Well, first of all, I wouldn't let this prison guard 512 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 9: off so easy. I just have to throw that out there. 513 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 9: He works around disturbed women all the time who are 514 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 9: probably sexualized with him. But putting that aside, I don't 515 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 9: think Susan Smith can even fathom a consequence. I think 516 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 9: if you did a brain scan, you would see that 517 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 9: the area is responsible for empathy, the impulse control, all 518 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 9: of that would probably not even light up. She probably 519 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 9: has a different brain than the rest of us, you know, 520 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 9: smri stands of sociopath do show that they have profoundly 521 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 9: different functioning. But think of her as she kind of 522 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 9: operates at the level of a three year old in 523 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 9: some way in some ways because she or two year 524 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 9: old grabs for whatever she wants and then operates also 525 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 9: like at the immaturity level of a fourteen or fifteen 526 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 9: year old who just has crushes on boys all the time, 527 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 9: and you know that's all she can think about. So, 528 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 9: you know, in terms of what swirling around in her head, 529 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 9: I'm sure it's just being gratified and thinking she can 530 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 9: get away with it. 531 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,239 Speaker 1: Well, guys, she was moved. Take a list an hour 532 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: cut twelve. 533 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 6: Sex isn't the only issue. Susan Smith is faced in prison. 534 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 6: Twice in twenty ten and once in twenty fifteen, Susan 535 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 6: Smith was disciplined on drug charges, losing privileges for more 536 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 6: than a year. Susan Smith's drug use escalator when she 537 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 6: switched prisons from Camille Graham Correctional Center in Columbia, South 538 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 6: Carolina to Leath Correctional Institution in Greenwood, South Carolina. Former 539 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 6: prison guard Alfred Rowe, who pleaded guilty to having sex 540 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 6: with Smith at the prison, told the TV show Sellmate 541 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 6: Secrets when Smith was moved from one prison to another 542 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 6: that it was at that point where quote she could 543 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 6: no longer get the mail attention that she used as 544 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 6: a drug unquote, and instead turned to pill. 545 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: Which led to a series of drug infractions. But you 546 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: know what, let's fast forward to right now to today. 547 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: Take a listen hour cut. 548 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 6: Fifteen Susan Smith dreams of the day she'll be released. 549 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 6: To that end, she's taken to writing a number of 550 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 6: men over the years. In March of twenty twenty two, 551 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 6: People magazine gained access to letter Smith wrote to a 552 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 6: long distance boyfriend. In one letter, she wrote, I can't 553 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 6: wait to build a life with you, leave the past 554 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 6: mistakes behind and start fresh, just you and me. A 555 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 6: relative of Smith told People Magazine at the time that 556 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 6: Smith wants everything in life that she believes has passed 557 00:31:59,000 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 6: her by. 558 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: So everything in life she wanted passed her by because 559 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: she committed murder. Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Tara Malick 560 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: is with US high profile lawyer joining us out of 561 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: Boise from the firm. Smith and Malick the narrative, her 562 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 1: story that she projects is so different from reality. Life 563 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: has not passed her by. She committed double murder. That 564 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: that's what happened. It's not anyone's fault but her own. Absolutely. 565 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 5: I mean, and if life passed her by, how does 566 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 5: she characterize what she did to her son? She took 567 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 5: their life away. They didn't even have the opportunit tunity 568 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 5: to live a life. I mean, these were really young 569 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 5: kids here and I think, you know, the pattern of 570 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 5: behavior that she's exhibited, like the infractions that she's picked 571 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 5: up while. 572 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 9: She's been in prison. I mean, all of this. 573 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 5: Doesn't tend to show that this is someone who has 574 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 5: been rehabilitated while in prison. I mean, she's still showing 575 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 5: those signs of manipulation that you know she engaged in 576 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 5: before she was convicted in sensus, you know, leading on 577 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 5: the nation form nine days, telling lies about what actually happened, 578 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 5: telling lies and printing fingers of people that didn't exist. 579 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 5: So this is a really deeply disturbed individualized shocked. The 580 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 5: prol board granted her request. 581 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: Chris mcdunna with me, a former homicide detective and host 582 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: of YouTube channel The Interview Room who has investigated at 583 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: least three hundred homicides. You know, defendants can be very, 584 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: very charming. Think about Scott Peterson or doctor Martin McNeil, 585 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: who killed his wife, a beauty queen. According to Susan 586 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: Smith's family, they say, quote she seems to be happy 587 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 1: and that she quote always had a messy love life. 588 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: She's creating a fictional version of her life and people 589 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:30,280 Speaker 1: are buying it. These guys, these lonely hearts are buying 590 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: it and attempting to have let me just say, romantic 591 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: interludes with her. Chris McDonough, have you ever met a 592 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: charming murder defendant? Because I have absolutely Nancy. 593 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 7: And what's interesting about her is we have to always 594 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 7: remember that all behavior has a purpose, and that past 595 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 7: behavior is usually an indication of future behavior. So she 596 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 7: has always threw out her entire case, and through her 597 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 7: life here while in prison and even before prison, she 598 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:11,919 Speaker 7: always sometimes projected the words of day into her vocabulary. 599 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 7: And if we listen real carefully to the minutia of 600 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 7: what she said in the very beginning, whoever they are, 601 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 7: please bring them home. E. She's talking about two suspects, 602 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 7: but she talks about one in terms of a description. 603 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 7: And now if we fast forward that to today, we 604 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 7: have six individuals men who quite frankly, I can't figure 605 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 7: that piece of the puzzle out. You know, that's that's 606 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 7: for the doctors to tell us what that's all about. 607 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 7: But she is utilizing that behavior still to this day, 608 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 7: by talking about money, by talking about sexual you know, 609 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 7: TIFFs there between the two of them, and that she 610 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 7: hasn't lost a thought from miss Leopard. And you know, 611 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 7: God forbid she gets out in twenty four if she 612 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 7: is ever aferole. 613 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 9: Yeah, can know something about this real quickly. 614 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. But doctor Bethany, I want you to hear something. 615 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:15,720 Speaker 7: Oh sure. 616 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,919 Speaker 1: One of these guys is an airline pilot and they're 617 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 1: creating a fictionalized life for her. Take us an hour eighteen. 618 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 6: The man who has built a fake life for Susan 619 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 6: Smith and himself in the game. The Simms also has 620 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 6: a pet name for the convicted child killer Pooky. The 621 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 6: Messenger shared an exchange from August where he writes, dearest Pooky, 622 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,240 Speaker 6: been thinking of you and miss you so much, hoping 623 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 6: I can do something for you soon. Love you so 624 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 6: much it hurts your Pooky, the man exchanging these messages 625 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,240 Speaker 6: with Smith, a sixty year old airline pilot. 626 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: Okay, doctor Bethany, I don't want him to fight fly 627 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: my plane. I really don't. I can't tell you why, 628 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 1: just a gut instinct. 629 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 9: Pe don' nancy. A wise colleague one said to me, 630 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 9: the cornerstone of good mental health is having a preference 631 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 9: for reality, which we all struggle with. These two are 632 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,320 Speaker 9: way out of touch with reality. They're building a fantasy life. 633 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 9: They have fantasy children. One of the children is even 634 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 9: called named after her to See son. So when you 635 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 9: live in like a fantasy world, you never have to 636 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 9: contend with reality. 637 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: You know. 638 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 9: Imagine when you met your husband. You know, you know, 639 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 9: you're having all these wonderful thoughts. It's very idealized at 640 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 9: the fun time. But then the reality is he has 641 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 9: a personality and you have to share a home with him. 642 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 9: Maybe you see him sitting on the toilet, maybe see 643 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 9: him blowing his nose. You know, he becomes a real person. 644 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 9: But some people only want that initial fantasy. When, to 645 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 9: quote Helen Fisher, who's a cultural anthropologist, in the first 646 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 9: six months of a relationship, the brain of fires as 647 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:56,720 Speaker 9: if it's on cocaine. 648 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: You know, I'm trying to figure out these guys too, 649 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: Doctor Beth And because Dave mag joining me Crime online 650 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, one of the men seeking for 651 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: a romantic interlude with Susan Smith, the double Killer says, 652 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: she's not what you think she is. I just find 653 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: her interesting and misunderstood. She's actually set for a parole 654 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: hearing in November twenty twenty four, that's one year from now. 655 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 6: That's what she was sentenced to life, with the possibility 656 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 6: of probation after thirty years. The first week of November 657 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 6: next year, she will show up in front of the 658 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 6: parole board. Her ex husband and the father of those 659 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 6: boys is going to be there. 660 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: You know, jo Scott Morgan, maybe we just know too 661 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,799 Speaker 1: much when it comes to murderer, because when I think 662 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: of Susan Smith, I immediately think of being trapped strapped 663 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,760 Speaker 1: in to a car as it's going down a ramp 664 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: and going underwater and seeing the water coming up on 665 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 1: either side and starting to pour in through the windshiels. 666 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: It comes up around you and you can't get out out. 667 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 1: I mean, the children in this case were three and 668 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: fourteen months. 669 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 2: They never had stood a chance within this environment. And 670 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 2: here's another thing that people might not be aware of. 671 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 2: After that car dip beneath the surface of that water, 672 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 2: one other element we have to consider. And again I 673 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 2: go back to the idea that we all have had babies, 674 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 2: you know, parents, that sort of thing. I've got kids 675 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 2: and grandkids whom I love dearly. And what is it 676 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 2: the kids are afraid of? Late at night? It's darkness, 677 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 2: and it would you would not have been able to 678 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 2: have seen your hand in front of your face. So 679 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,280 Speaker 2: not only are they absent a loving mother who normally 680 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 2: you would hope would take care of them, they're disoriented, 681 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 2: they're running out of breath, and it's dark, Nancy, it's 682 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 2: cold and it's dark down there, And that goes to 683 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 2: the lef level of horror that they're that they're you know, experiencing. 684 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 2: I wish, I wish every single one of these so 685 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,439 Speaker 2: called men that are reaching out to her would would 686 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 2: slip over South Carolina at sometime and maybe go to 687 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 2: this little United Methodist church where these two little babies 688 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 2: are buried and stare at those headstones just for a 689 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 2: moment when they're thinking about involving themselves with this individual 690 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 2: that they're going to sew. Sew their hearts too, if 691 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:29,479 Speaker 2: you will. 692 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 9: But they don't care. They're as callous as she is. 693 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 9: They don't care about these two little boys that drowned. 694 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 9: All they care about is this fantasy life they're in, uh, 695 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 9: having phone sex, imagining that she's just waiting for them, 696 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 9: that they're going to have this great life when she 697 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 9: gets out. You know, these guys are kind of control 698 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 9: freaks in a. 699 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: Way because they they have. 700 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 9: Complete in their fantasy life. They have complete control over her. 701 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,439 Speaker 1: Please contact the South Carolina Pardon Emparole Board at eight 702 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: and zero three seven three four three five zero five 703 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: repeat eight zero three seven three four three five zero 704 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,800 Speaker 1: five These and you guys, she's got on the hook 705 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 1: for love and money. That's their problem. But what's on 706 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: my mind are the two little boys that lost their 707 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:32,720 Speaker 1: lives and the John D. Long Lake Goodbye friend.