1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's your host Philip Holloway. Here. Before we 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: get into this episode and an acknowledgement of this time 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: of protest and unrest, I wanted to provide some resources 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: for people looking for ways to affect meaningful, positive change 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: in the criminal justice system. Here at Sworn Podcast, we 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: have worked closely with the California Innocence Project, the Georgia 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: Innocence Project, the Pennsylvania Innocence Project, and fam f a 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: m M formally Families Against Mandatory Minimum Sentencing. I can 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: personally attest that these organizations are doing incredible, much needed 10 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: work on some of the problems of the criminal justice system. 11 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: I encourage you to take a look at them for 12 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: yourself and support them in any way that you can. 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: At your local level, take a look at the track 14 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: records of officials in your area and decide whether or 15 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: not you support their decisions, and let your feelings be 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: known with your vote. That's the most direct line between 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: those officials and those that they serve. I really encourage 18 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: you to look closely at the judges, the sheriffs, the 19 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: district attorneys, and the city officials who directly impact how 20 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: justice is done for you and your community. If you 21 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: have any questions, our phone line is open at four 22 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: zero four for one zero zero four four one. Thank 23 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: you for listening. If you will place your left hand 24 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: on the Bible and raise your right hand, and please 25 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: repeat after me and I do titled action. Find the 26 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: defendant guilty of the crime. It makes no sense, it 27 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: doesn't fit. If it doesn't fit, you must equit. We 28 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: all took the same of the office. We are all 29 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: bound by that common commitment to support and defend the Constitution, 30 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: to bear true faith and allegiance to the same. Didn't 31 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: you faithfully discharge the duties of our office? Do you 32 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to 33 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 34 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: but the truth. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta and I 35 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: Heart Media, this is Swarn. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. 36 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: High Sworn listeners. We're coming to you today in between 37 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 1: seasons with a couple of special announcements. First off, we're 38 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: happy to announce that Sworn Season two will be released 39 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: wide and for free this summer right here wherever you 40 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. There's going to be some stuff that 41 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: might sound familiar, but we've also got brand new episodes, 42 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: new experts, and new stories to tell. We hope you'll 43 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: join us in the meantime. I know my life as 44 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: a lawyer and as a citizen has been turned completely 45 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: upside down by the spread of the novel coronavirus or 46 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen, and I know I'm not alone. We've put 47 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: together this special bonus episode to look at how this 48 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: pandemic has affected members of the legal system and the 49 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: justice community. We want to discuss what happens when matters 50 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: of life and liberty get put on pause. As you 51 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: might imagine, we recorded all of these interviews remotely, safely 52 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: over the phone or on the internet. Stay tuned to 53 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: the end of this episode to hear how COVID nineteen 54 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: affected me and my family in a very personal and 55 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: not so pleasant way. We spoke with a good friend 56 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: of mine, Michael Lascala. Michael is a criminal defense lawyer 57 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: here in the metropolitan Atlanta area, and like me, Mike 58 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: has seen a dramatic change in the way he does business. 59 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: There's a joke in our business that you're either a 60 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: writer or you're a fighter. I'm not a writer. I'm 61 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: a fighter, so I go to court and we deal 62 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: with cases. Inside a court, I would be in court 63 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: anywhere from three to four days a week, whether it's 64 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: motions or arrangements or you know, trials or whatever it is. 65 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: I have not been a court now in six weeks, 66 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: and I haven't had any dry cleaners for the first 67 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: time in twenty years. When this COVID thing got serious, 68 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: my staff was pretty on top of it and tried 69 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: to do more phone interviews, and sometimes that work, sometimes 70 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: it doesn't. We pretty much shut it down. I've had 71 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: client fact This morning, I had a client say, hey, 72 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: I wanted my son to come see you. He's a client. 73 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: I said, I'm just not taking interviews right now. I'm 74 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: not doing anything face to face, and she completely understood. 75 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: But ultimately I do want to get back to that. 76 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: I just don't know if it's safe at this point. 77 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: Certainly don't want to staff to have the anxiety with 78 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: people they don't know. I'm here at the office. I'm 79 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: here today and you know, working on cases that are 80 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: being prepped for trial, which probably will never go to 81 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: trial at least this year. But ultimately there's nothing else 82 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: to do, so you want to be productive. You want 83 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: to do something, so you just continue to work the case, 84 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: and work the case, and work the case. We are 85 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: directed by the Georgia Supreme Court, Justice Melton, who is 86 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: the chief Judge, sent out in order, and he did 87 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: what was in the best interest of everyone, which is 88 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: to shut it down. In fact that now we're going 89 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: I think till I remember the day correctly, it's June 90 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: fift or something along those lines. We're effectively shut down 91 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: for three months. My clients called me at the time, 92 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: is that what are we gonna do? You know, how 93 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: do we handle this? So there's nothing you can do. 94 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: You know, not that we ever would do it, but 95 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: you couldn't go in there complete guilty at all the charges. 96 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: Just there's nothing you can do. My practices in Fulton County, 97 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: and in Fulton County it is Grand Central Station any 98 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: day of the week. I mean, people packed onto elevators 99 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: and you may have to wait sometimes fifteen twenty minutes 100 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: to catch an elevator because it's too crowded you can't 101 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: get on. Those are the what I've dealt with for 102 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: twenty years of practice, and I don't see how that's 103 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: going to change unless you stagger it, but everybody wants 104 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: their day in court. I mean, you've got civil litigants, 105 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: you've got contract disputes, you've got divorces, you've got medical malpractice, 106 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: you've got arrayments, you've got first appearances, you've got motions, 107 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: you've got everything under the sun, and everybody's case is important. 108 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: How do you figure out who's gonna go first? Do 109 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: we start with the backlog? Do we start what's going 110 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: moving forward and figure out what to do with the backlog. 111 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: We've got great leadership down there, and I think the 112 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: right thing will be done, but it's certainly gonna be 113 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: a headache for all the players involved. There's an assistant 114 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: district attorney, a deputy district attorney I was on the 115 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: phone with yesterday trying to work on a case that 116 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: we're supposed to have a zoom meeting in in two weeks, 117 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: and I said, you know, you're down there by yourself, 118 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: because there's three of us down there now. In Fulton 119 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: County District Attorney's office, they have a hundred and I 120 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: think it's like a hundred and twenty lawyers and there's 121 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: three of them down there. The problem, though, is they 122 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: don't have the five they may be able to look 123 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: at something electronically if I send it to them. What 124 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: district attorneys are always hasn't to make a firm commitment 125 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: about anything until they've reviewed the file diligently, and I 126 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: can't argue with that. I'm starting to see, more so 127 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: now in the last week than even the last five 128 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: previous weeks, is I've got a lot of solicitors and 129 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: a das that are starting to reach out and say, hey, 130 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: we need to start putting this on our radar. You know, 131 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: everybody understands there's gonna be a tsunami of cases hitting 132 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: their desk, you know, unless they want to stay twenty 133 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: four hours a day, seven days week for the next 134 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: thirty six months. We got to start chipping away at 135 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: this block because they're not going anywhere. They're not going 136 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,679 Speaker 1: to dismiss the cases, and I'm not leading to them. 137 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: So we're gonna have to see what's the reasonable resolution 138 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: that we can get done under the circumstances. A deal 139 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: that I may not have gotten three months ago is 140 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: certainly gonna be on the table now. As a defense attorney, 141 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: Michael represents many clients who are currently in jail or 142 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: even in prison awaiting their day in court. I asked 143 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: him how those clients are doing during this crisis, and 144 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: whether any of them have gotten any special permission to 145 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: go home. We were successful in federal court to get 146 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: a released for an inmate just recently, so the motions 147 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: are being filed and the judges are giving them their attention. 148 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: It's just some cases. I understand the sire any of it. 149 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: They're just not comfortable doing it. I don't know if 150 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: I agree with it. I certainly understand it. We have 151 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: one that it's a very serious case that we've just 152 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: been unsuccessful in getting him out. In fact, he caught 153 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: the coronavirus while he's at the Fulton County jail. It's terrific. 154 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: It's him and another gentleman who also has the virus 155 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: stuck in there, and he's fearful for his life. When 156 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: you're in jail, you worry about things exponentially, and is 157 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: he going to get the treatment he deserves and all 158 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: those things. Now, he's a young guy and hopefully he'll 159 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: pull through, which I don't doubt he will, but certainly 160 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: there's some stress and some real fear amongst his family. 161 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: I used to get I don't know five ten phone 162 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: calls a day from different potential clients. We probably get 163 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 1: five to ten calls a week now, I mean, it 164 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: just doesn't exist. I was hired this morning on a case. 165 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: It's the first larger case I've gotten in at least 166 00:09:55,240 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: two months. My law partner, Manny, he does primary late, 167 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: but in addition to state court, it doesn't many federal cases, 168 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: and so federal court, for whatever reason, seems to be 169 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: just ramped up and moving a lot quicker. In fact, 170 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: he was in federal court yesterday on a case in 171 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: Fulton or any other jurisdiction. Say, emotions day, you may 172 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: be first, you may be last, but you and the 173 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: other hundred people in the court room, they're gonna be 174 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: sitting around until your case is resolved. That's just the 175 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: way that it works because the numbers are so overwhelming 176 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: in state court versus federal court. We also discussed some 177 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: of the other day to day effects of this legal 178 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: shutdown that Michael and his clients are experiencing. There are 179 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: things that have collateral consequences, even if you haven't an 180 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: arrest on your record. There are sometimes that are job 181 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: implications or promotions and things of that nature. You need 182 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 1: a resolution. Everybody has the right to a jury trial. 183 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: This is one of the more regular calls in getting 184 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: right now, is I missed the traffic citations and warrant 185 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: from my arrest. I need to go down and clean 186 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: it out. No, you can't. There is literally nowhere to 187 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: go down and clean it out with. So someone may 188 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: have a suspended license and they can't go and get 189 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: a regular license because they have to clear up the case. 190 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: You may have immigration issues where oh, my immigration lawyer 191 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: needs a certified disposition of this case from ten years ago. 192 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: You can't get it. The clerk's office isn't there to happen. 193 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: Most of the functions of the court are real severe 194 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: as in like temporary protective orders so a spouse won't 195 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: get injured killed by their you know, delinquents. The bond 196 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: hearing's first appearances, I have a client right now that 197 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: has a d U I. But if they didn't take 198 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: him to jail yet, so as soon as this is over, 199 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: he has to go turn himself in then bond out. 200 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 1: I asked him if he's seen an increase or decrease 201 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: in any of the types of cases that he's been 202 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: getting calls about Unfortunately, as everyone knows, um use of 203 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: illicit drugs, their alcohol is I have I've been hired 204 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: on a couple of d UI cases. I've got hired 205 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: on two domestic violence cases. You know, when you get 206 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: people cooped up for six weeks and their during day 207 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: drinking and all that, it's just a recipe for exaster. 208 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: It's wonderful coming to work right now because my commune 209 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: is about half there's no cars, there's no traffic. I 210 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: got a notice from USA A my insurance company, that 211 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,719 Speaker 1: they're refunding five million dollars because there's nothing going on. 212 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: There's no accidents. So all this money that is polled 213 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: as being dispersed Geico returned over to billion Manny and 214 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: I have two associates and we've got two paralegals. So 215 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: we're a nice small firm. They've got kids, they've got mortgages, 216 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: they've got car payments. We can't furlough anybody and not 217 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: pay them. I just don't think it's fair. But we 218 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: have not received deny p p P money. We've applied 219 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: for it. P p P money is the Paycheck Protection 220 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: Program loan that was made available to small businesses in 221 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: an effort to keep people employed while businesses down. Like Michael, 222 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: I run a small private practice and we have four employees, 223 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: including myself. Our business has seen a dramatic hit. We're 224 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: probably down from where we were this time last year. 225 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: I had to tell you the process of applying for 226 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: P p P was a nightmare. When I'm recording this 227 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: in late May, the banks and government systems have pretty 228 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: well figured it out, but the application process in the 229 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: beginning was brutal and it was extremely frustrating. And I'm 230 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: speaking for not just me, but everybody else that I 231 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: know who went through this process. People are having to 232 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: scramble to reprioritize what bills get paid and when they 233 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: get paid. People pay lawyers because, let's face it, they 234 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: are inspired or maybe afraid of what the judge might 235 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: do to them. And if the judge is not working 236 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: because of the courts were shut down, then people have 237 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: much less incentive to hire a lawyer. I have many 238 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: clients around payment plans. In front of the month comes up, 239 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: you send out a bill to them. The overwhelming majority 240 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: of them have asked for you know, hey, look and 241 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: I just skipped this month or skipped two months, and 242 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: you know, I like all of my clients, I really do. 243 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: I'm really blessed with some really great people. How can 244 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: you say no to that? You know they're hurting. It's 245 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: not like they're gonna go and frivously waste this money 246 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: and go on a trip to Italy, because they're just 247 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: not gonna happen. But we are business and I have 248 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: a family I need to feed too, and that's why 249 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: I explained to clients. And I think if you're straightforward 250 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: with them and explain, hey, look, I know you're hurting, 251 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: but we're all hurting. We all have to make some 252 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: seting devices. Let's figure out that something reasonable. I think 253 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: that word reasonable is gonna be a key word for 254 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: the next twelve to eighteen months. What's reasonable under the circumstances. 255 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: Of course, let's face it, an important part of the 256 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: legal system is timing inefficiency. For better or worse. There 257 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: are many cases to get through every single day, and 258 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: often the responsibility to move that business, as we say, 259 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: falls in the hands of the judges. I wanted to 260 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: hear more about how that responsibility is being handled and 261 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: what judges are doing and can do to keep the 262 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: justice system moving along. My name is Rob Leonard On, 263 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: a Superior Court judge in Cobb County, Georgia. We're a 264 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: court of general jurisdictions. We handle pretty much everything from 265 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: A to Z in both the civil and criminal world. 266 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: The only thing that you really don't see in Superior 267 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: court is is probading, a will, a juvenile delinquency, pursued eatings, 268 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: unless really serious crime, those can come with Superior Court 269 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: and get charged as adults. Pretty much. If it can 270 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: be filed and cop canty, it can be filed in 271 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: Superior Court. For the most part, the average day before 272 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: this pandemic was about like it had been for the 273 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: last I don't know, several hundred years in the court system, 274 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: court system dating all the way back to its origins. 275 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: I mean it was a public gathering. It was it 276 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: was entertainment way back when you know, before television and whatnot. 277 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: Court proceedings, of course have to be open to the public, 278 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: and the way that we've always done things have required 279 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: large gatherings of people. For example, I was handling a 280 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: criminal calendar, I would have a list of cases that 281 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: would all get noticed appear in court on the same day. 282 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: So let's say it was fifty cases. I would have 283 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: I would have itty defendants, I would have fifty lawyers, 284 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: I would have the prosecutors, I would have some moms 285 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: and dads and whoever was there for support, not have 286 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: a full courtroom. And that's that's the way that we 287 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: did business, and almost all of it was in person. 288 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: So this has really caused us to rethink the way 289 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: that we do business because we just can't keep people 290 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: safe and continue those practices. I asked Judge Robert Leonard 291 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: what official orders or directions he and other judges have 292 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: received and issued regarding holding or stopping court, as well 293 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: as what other decisions judges came to on their own. 294 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: There have been several orders system a couple that have 295 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: come out of the Supreme Court. There was one that 296 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: was issued here locally. We had a judges meeting, we 297 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: declared a juditional emergency in our circuit in the statewide 298 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: order went into effect, and it really has shut down 299 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: the common sense of things like we can't be having 300 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: large calendars, we can't be forcing people into court in groups. 301 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: We're not ready and not going to be ready anytime 302 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: soon to summon jurors in for jury selection. Each judge 303 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: has the ability to go ahead and participate in video 304 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: conference or teleconference hearings. If you look at Chief Justice 305 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: Melton's order, the most recent one that came out gave 306 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: a little more encouragement to go ahead and adopt this technology. 307 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: So I think that we're going to see that it's 308 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: going to become more widespread. But I've been using Zoom heavily. 309 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: Now we're on Zoom right now recording this, and one 310 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 1: of the frustrations has been getting lawyers acclimated with the software, 311 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: getting some of the parties acclimated with the software. I'm 312 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: relatively young for a superior court judge, and the picking 313 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: up the technology hasn't been too big of a challenge. 314 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 1: But five days ago, I didn't know what Zoom was. 315 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: And now I'm recording screencast of the way that I 316 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: set up my settings, and I've recording screencasts of how 317 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: to conduct a hearing and how operate breakout rooms and 318 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: all of that kind of stuff, and I'm sharing with 319 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: colleagues on the bench to try to get everyone up 320 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 1: to speed. You might imagine across our state, we've got 321 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: judges that very widely in age, very widely with technology 322 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,719 Speaker 1: that's been available to them, and I'm sure, We've got 323 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,239 Speaker 1: judges in the state that don't know how to get 324 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: their email on their cell phone, and this is posing 325 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: a real problem. I feel lucky that I'm able to 326 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: conduct hearings. I've had court almost every day last week 327 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: and every day this week so far. I think there's 328 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: really essential staff right now is the support staff. Those 329 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: are the folks that opened the files, prepare of the discovery, 330 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: run the criminal history. I think that's the biggest need 331 00:19:55,040 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: right now in order to get moving. One of the 332 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: hurdles that I find in conducting these virtual court sessions 333 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: that I've been doing is how do you satisfy public 334 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: access right. There's a constitutional right to an open court 335 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: room and public access to the proceedings, So I can't 336 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: just haul off and have court anytime I want to 337 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: without telling anymore. My solution to that has been twofold. 338 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: I'll make a list of cases that I'm going to 339 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: hear virtually with the name of the case and the 340 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: case number. I'll put a link onto Twitter, and that 341 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: link will go to the YouTube channel that I livestream 342 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: to on the Zoom. I think these changes a good 343 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: many of them have the potential to stick long term. 344 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: You know, really it's on us that we let the 345 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: old system go on for as long as it did. 346 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: But it worked, and there just wasn't any real reason 347 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: to fix what had had worked for so long. Like 348 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: the other day, I did an adoption on Zoom for 349 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: the first time, and let's say those people a lot 350 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: of trouble and expense. Usually everybody's got to be there, 351 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: and so they would have had to have purchased plane 352 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: tickets from Arizona in this particular case. And we just 353 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: got everybody on Zoom and did it that way and 354 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: it wasn't though, it wasn't a problem. So there are 355 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: efficiencies that you can find in it, and for that 356 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: I think it's very workable. While judges have been able 357 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: to hold some hearings and meetings online, the big question 358 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: regarding criminal cases is what about a defendants constitutional right 359 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: to a trial in front of a jury of their 360 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: peers or to confront witnesses against them. That means being 361 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: together in the same room. When are we going to 362 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: get to jury trials? Anybody's guess. My best guess is 363 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: that it's probably not something that can even be considered 364 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: until kids are back in school, Until you're going to 365 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: an autline of braves game, and I think we're going 366 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: to have a real hard time feeling comfortable summoning that 367 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: number of people to court and making them feel feel safe. 368 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: We have an obligation to to move the business, and 369 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: we have an obligation to make sure that the cases 370 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: are working their way through and nobody's rights to see 371 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: trial are being violated. This isn't really anyone's fault. You know. 372 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: You can't say, well, this is the judge is balled, 373 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: or this is the state's balled or anything, or the 374 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: defendants balled or anything like that. It's just different, and 375 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: it takes special considerations to trying to figure out how 376 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: are we going to do that? And we might get 377 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: jury trial started back up sooner if we can figure 378 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 1: out a way to do jury selection virtually, like, for example, 379 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: if we were in old to check injurors, give them 380 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: an oath conducted jury selection on technology like the one 381 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: we're on now, then we could only have the twelves 382 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: that got picked. Report you can socially distanced twelve people, 383 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: you you really are going to struggle to do it 384 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: forty two or however many you know that you think 385 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: you need to pick your jury with If you could 386 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: think back to your days when you were a trial 387 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: lawyer and not a judge and you were picking a jury, 388 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,479 Speaker 1: do you remember how important it was to you as 389 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: an advocate to be in the same physical space with 390 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: a prospective juror so that you could maybe get a 391 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: close look at their body language or these intangible qualities 392 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 1: that comes only with face to face human interaction. Do 393 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: you remember that, and don't you think that's something that's 394 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: important for lawyers when they're litigating cases. It's a nice 395 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: leading question there, Mr Hallway. I will tell you I 396 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: remember you. If I was a lawyer and and I 397 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: was gonna have to depict a jury, I would much 398 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: prefer to be in a pot room with them where 399 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: I can see and they can see me, and I 400 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: can hear, and if anything goes wrong I can I 401 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: can fix it right then and there I can make 402 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: a record of it. You know, in person is kind 403 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: of be preferable always. And there are going to be 404 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 1: cases where say, okay, uh, Mr Holloway, I can get 405 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: your case tried in if we're able to do virtual 406 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: jury selection, I can find you something this fall. If 407 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: we can't, I don't know when it's going to be. 408 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: I can tell you we're coming up with a number 409 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: of ideas and there will be a plan a Plan B, 410 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: and a Plan C and probably a D. I don't know. 411 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: We'll just work through them. And those that we can't 412 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: because of an objection, or maybe it's a kind of 413 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: case that just doesn't lend itself to being handled the 414 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: virtual passion, and that might just be something that has 415 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: to wait a walk. One thing that this legal shutdown 416 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,959 Speaker 1: has really pointed out to me and driven home is 417 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: how many businesses really do depend on the courthouse being open. 418 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: When you drive by the courthouse in any town, even 419 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: where I live, I see restaurants, I see parking lots, 420 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: and I see stores that depend on the courthouse crowd 421 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: for all sorts of things. These businesses are hurting and 422 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: some of them are shutting down some forever. One of 423 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: the industries impacted like this is the bail bonding industry. 424 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: We spoke with Shitara Harper, who works at a Georgia 425 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: bail bonding office. We wanted to see how their business 426 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: has been changed by the pandemic. My name is Satyra Harper. 427 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: I am the administrator slash paralegal for a bill bonds 428 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: agent see here in Cobb County. On a normal day, 429 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: I am responsible for basically keeping the wheels turning in 430 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: my office, so like I am responsible for all of 431 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 1: our case management, all of our files. In bail bonds, 432 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: we have bond forfeit your hearings, so I'm in court 433 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: a lot. So a lot of my mornings are going 434 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: down to the courthouse for the bond forfeit your hearings, 435 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: in putting files, drafting motions to send out to attorneys, 436 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: and things like that. So a bill bond's agency is 437 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: basically like a company that will loan a defendant in 438 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: their family the money to get out of jail. Once 439 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: we know that amount, then you know, we speak to 440 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,959 Speaker 1: the family um and they pay us a percentage and 441 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: then we post the full amount of the bond in 442 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: order for that person to get out of jail, and 443 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: once they've completed their case, we get our money back. 444 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: People generally like to lay their eyes on us, especially 445 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: when they're spending large sums of money. And then also 446 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: we are in close proximity to the jail, so a 447 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: lot of the time the family members are at the 448 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: jail or the person has just gotten out of jail 449 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 1: and we have documentation and things like that that we 450 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: need for them to sign. So we do have a 451 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: lot of foot traffic in our office under normal circumstances. 452 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: I can't honestly say the exact moment that I knew 453 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: that it would be a problem. I believe that when 454 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: we all started being afraid for our health is when 455 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: we started making changes. We used to have this large 456 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: meeting table in the front room. Now we've removed that. 457 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: We brought in more masks and gloves and more hand 458 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 1: sanitizer and things like that. There was the creation of 459 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: this digital document platform that we use now, and so 460 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: instead of having people come in, you know, we send 461 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: out the forms and they don't ever have to come 462 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: into the office. So I think that it started with 463 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: us starting to fear for our safety. The courts shut 464 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: down probably I think March sixteenth or seventeen. I do 465 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: know that people are still working in the courthouse, but 466 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: you cannot just walk into the courthouse as it was before. 467 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: They're certainly not holding any of the hearings that I 468 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: would attend. So the bond forfeit your hearings have now 469 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: been shut down until it's you know, safe for the 470 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 1: courts to reopen. It has been challenging, but you know, 471 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: we still have been able to make it work. When 472 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: the government pushed out what was considered essential business, we 473 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: were in fact on the list. I guess the idea 474 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: kind of was like, if we have to keep the 475 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: jails open, if we have to keep the police officers 476 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: out there, we owe these people are right to get 477 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: out of jail should they be arrested. You know, I 478 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: took this job just personally because this is a service 479 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: that people will always need in this county. They arrest 480 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: hundreds of people a day on a regular basis, and 481 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: so there's plenty of business to pick and choose from. 482 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: Really common are d uise and like simple battery, obstruction 483 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: of a law enforcement officer. We have not seen a 484 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: lot of that lately at all, because people are not out. 485 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: You know, that kind of keeps our ship aflow because 486 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: we're counting on those We get those smaller bonds all 487 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: the time, those types of things that we see often 488 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: that we haven't been seeing because people have been staying home. 489 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: I think the lowest that we saw was thirteen people 490 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: arrested in in twenty four hours, and then once they 491 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: get arrested, we are up against the judge just letting 492 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: them sign themselves out on what's called their own recognizance bond, 493 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: which basically means that they don't have to pay any money. 494 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: They can just sign and say, you know, I promised 495 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: to show up in court. So that takes business away 496 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: from us as well. You know, you have the others 497 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: that have done serious things that may have no bond, 498 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: and then you have other businesses also vying for those 499 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: few left in the barrel. So they've only arrested thirteen 500 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: people and six of them get to sign their own bonds, 501 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: and then several different companies trying to get that same business. 502 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: So yes, we have seen a dramatic drop in business. 503 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: I think that the long term problem that I think 504 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: about is just all of the people that have been 505 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: released on signature bonds. That's going back to the owner 506 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: cognizant bonds that I was talking about. It's called we 507 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: call them signature bonds mainly because I live in this 508 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: the same community where I work, and those people are 509 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: in my community and you're letting them out and they 510 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: don't have really any skin in the game, so to speak. 511 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: I think that having to post the bill and spend 512 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: your heart on money to get out of jail is 513 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: kind of a deterrent for future crime. And so, as 514 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: a member of this community, the idea of people just 515 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: being set free without having any immediate repercussions for what 516 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: they've done is scary to me. The times that we're 517 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: living in are very trying, and the circumstances are unusual. 518 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: I have two small children and we were in Walmart 519 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: and I was telling them instead of telling people that 520 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: you want them to keep their space from you, you 521 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: just move. It's easier for you to say, just move. 522 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: But you know, we've seen things where people fight because 523 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: people are in their personal space and they want to 524 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: protect their safety, or people being pulled off of public 525 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: transit because they don't have masks on the entire world 526 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,719 Speaker 1: has had to make an adjustment to accommodate this virus 527 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: that was unexpected and unknown. None of us know what 528 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,719 Speaker 1: to do. Being compassionate towards your neighbor, I think is 529 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: something that I would like to see everyone doing in general, 530 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: not just from a business standpoint. We spoke with an 531 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: old friend of mine, Chief Mike Wilkie. Chief Wilkie is 532 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: the chief of police in the city of St. Mary's, Georgia. St. 533 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: Mary's is right on the coast and across the state 534 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: line from Jacksonville, Florida. Chief Wilkie also is a professor 535 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: of public administration and criminal justice. We spoke with him 536 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: about the changes that he's had to make for himself 537 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: and his officers now that social distancing is the new norm, because, 538 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: let's face it, policing has always been an up in 539 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: personal proposition. On an average day, all my personal interaction 540 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: was close and of course our officers are, you know, 541 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: if they're taking reports, speaking with people, stopping people for 542 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: speeding violations, all of their interaction is fairly close down. 543 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: You know, we have a hospital which is in the seat, 544 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: and there would be the occasional need to go over there, 545 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: either to take somebody to the hospital that we had 546 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: in custody, or to respond to something in the emergency 547 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: room where there was an issue there and they needed 548 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: police intervention. So we felt like we were just as 549 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: exposed as you could be. We had a pair of 550 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: rubber gloves on our duty belt, and you know, if 551 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: you get to a scene and somebody's bleeding all over 552 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: the place, where we know not to step in it, 553 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: not to touch it. That's really about all I think 554 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: probably that your average officer paid attention to. When the 555 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: first COVID matters started coming out eight to ten weeks ago, 556 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: we just sort of backed up and said, what are 557 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: we gonna do? So we really went through the throws 558 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: and trying to understand how to exercise and protection for ourselves. 559 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: We give masks to our folks, and you know, there's 560 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: a little quibbling about whether or not you're gonna wear 561 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: a mask when you're a police uniforming and my thought 562 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: on it was, I don't care about the uniform, I 563 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: care about the person. We need to do what we 564 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: can to protect the individual. Some masks and gloves became 565 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: fairly standard. A business entity in town was concerned about 566 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: this for the fire department and the police department, and 567 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: they provided some funding for something that amounted to like 568 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: a defumigator type of thing, and so we were daily 569 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: driving our vehicles through once a day for for this device. 570 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: We used to spray the interior so as clean and 571 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: disaffective as it could be. Everybody sort of already had 572 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: some of the hand sanitizers in the car, and that 573 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: sort of thing, but we're really trying to make sure 574 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: if everybody's got that. Now, we put in some regulations 575 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,399 Speaker 1: about entering the building, going in and out, making sure 576 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: you use hand sanitizers. Come of the building, the first 577 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 1: thing you do is go wash your hand. Here. We 578 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: did have one of our personnelity that showed up and 579 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: tested positive for us, and so that gave us some 580 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: consternation for a time. So the fact that we had 581 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: though somebody immediately in our department in this very rural 582 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: county in southeast Georgia, brought our radar right up that 583 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: you know, we need to be careful. Several of our 584 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: people did go for the testing, and thankfully they all 585 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: came back negatively. We did not really get anything specific 586 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: from say, the Governor's office. The Governor's executive wards were 587 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: especially be enforced by the sheriff. Of these local police 588 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: were specifically written out, and subsequent iterations of that local 589 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: police were included. We have taken a posture of being educational. 590 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: If there was let's say, a restaurant and you know, 591 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 1: we heard that folks and some of the great staff 592 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: we're not wearing masks. We might go by and say, hey, 593 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: you know, let's let's make you aware of this, because 594 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: this is what the executive ward is from the from 595 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: the government are restaurants in places like that or licensed entities, 596 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: and so the state does have some ability to control 597 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: what they do. And we would say, you know, you 598 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: folks need to have one mask, which please do that, 599 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: and they'd say, oh, yes, sure, I'm so sorry, or 600 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: we ran out world the way to get some more 601 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: or things like that, and so we have been we 602 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: tried the education to it. I don't believe that any 603 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: citations have been written by this agency, either on the 604 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: law enforcement agency or from our code enforcement, which is 605 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: kind of a separate entity. And in the city we 606 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 1: put it no changes and been telling the people not 607 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: to make traffic stops or that sort of thing. We've 608 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: left that discretionary and so our personnel have continued to 609 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,479 Speaker 1: have that level of interaction from an enforcements and point 610 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 1: with the public. We did make some internal change where 611 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: if someone made to report a stolen bicycle or something 612 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: that was a fairly low level type of thing, the 613 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: dispatcher would obtain a telephone number and we would take 614 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: a report. And that's actually worked out to be Sarah 615 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 1: sort of convenience for us, and we may we may 616 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: continue that. Probably one of the biggest issues for us 617 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: is that on occasion we've had to take someone into 618 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: custody and take them to the jail, which is operated 619 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 1: by another law enforcement entity, and we've had some issues 620 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: with people being accepted by the jail because their temperature 621 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: may have been slightly elevated or something of that nature. 622 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: So it kind of made some a little bit of 623 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 1: issue for our folks and where not we could even 624 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: take someone to jail if they were under arrest, and 625 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: that was particularly troublesome if it was, you know, a fellow. 626 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: We asked Chief Wilkie whether his officers had seen any 627 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: substantial increases or decreases the types of calls they were answering. 628 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: I asked our personnel so that I was walking into 629 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 1: this innerview blind, you know, if they if we've noticed 630 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,399 Speaker 1: anything of any increased activity that that sort of thing. 631 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: And I really don't have any feedback from our personnel 632 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,839 Speaker 1: that that sort of thing has happened. The George Association 633 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: Chiefs at least did a survey of the agencies. I 634 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: think that there were about ten percent of them that 635 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 1: responded that they that they had seen an increase in 636 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,359 Speaker 1: domestic violence type events in our area. I don't think 637 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: that it's really made a great deal of difference. The 638 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: state of Georgia, where we're located, made headlines a while 639 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: back for being one of the first states to begin 640 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: the process of being reopened for business. I had heard 641 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: that people were coming into Georgia from neighboring states to 642 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: visit all kinds of businesses. Since Chief Wilki's town is 643 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: right across the border from Florida, I asked him if 644 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: he'd seen Floria a license plate around town. I can't 645 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: not answer about the massages and tattoo partners because I 646 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,839 Speaker 1: just don't personally keep up with them. We do have 647 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: some restaurants and establishments that are open in town now 648 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: that may be one of their features of service of 649 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,800 Speaker 1: alcoholic beverage. And we have noticed a number of Florida tags. 650 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,839 Speaker 1: Same thing with some churches into Harry and we didn't 651 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 1: interfere with them, but we did look and we noticed 652 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 1: that there are several churches have just had a lot 653 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: of Florida tags in the parking lots. As a coastal city, 654 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,760 Speaker 1: Chief Wilkie is facing another problem just around the corner 655 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,800 Speaker 1: that he's also starting to prepare for him As to 656 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 1: COVID Nineteam, I'm coming to the understanding that the hotter 657 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: it gets, the more difficulty that virus is going to 658 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: have to survive, and so we're just praying that hot 659 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: weather hurry up and get here, because fairly shortly we're 660 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,839 Speaker 1: going to start turning our attention to hurricane preparation, and 661 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,399 Speaker 1: we don't want to be had to deal with both 662 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:12,760 Speaker 1: crises at the same time. In the last week of March, 663 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 1: I'd come home from a couple of round trip flights, 664 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: and after a few days, I found myself feeling this 665 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: overwhelming sense of fatigue. I was flatly exhausted. I eventually 666 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: started running a fever. It got up to about a 667 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: hundred and two point five. I knew something was up, 668 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: something wasn't right. This was different. I'd never run a 669 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: fever like this in years, and the chills and fatigue 670 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 1: were unlike anything that I had experienced before. I didn't 671 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: have a cough, but I checked in remotely with my doctor, 672 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 1: some friends who are doctors, and even a family member 673 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: who is a medical professional, and all of them said 674 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 1: that this sound it exactly like COVID nineteen. Well, my 675 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: wife made sure that I took pretty quick action. She 676 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: moved me down to the basement for almost two weeks, 677 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 1: away from her and her kids. She fed me food 678 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: through the door. She managed all of the regular and 679 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,879 Speaker 1: new household tasks that already were on her plate, including 680 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: homeschooling our two children. It was frankly awful feelings so 681 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: rundown and watching my wife take on all of these responsibilities. 682 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:36,839 Speaker 1: I knew I needed to stay away from them though, 683 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: until I could get tested so I would not pass 684 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: anything along to the rest of my family. Around ten 685 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: days into this ordeal, I made a telemedicine appointment with 686 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 1: a nurse practitioner who ordered me the COVID nineteen nasal swab. 687 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: So I drove myself to a back parking lot of 688 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,320 Speaker 1: this medical practitioner's office, where the workers had me swabbed 689 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 1: my own nose for influenza and for COVID nineteen. The 690 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: influenza test came back negative the same day. A couple 691 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: of days later, lo and behold, the COVID test was 692 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: negative too, so I immediately rejoined my family. I was 693 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,720 Speaker 1: feeling better by that point, but I wasn't completely well, 694 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 1: but since they told me I did not have COVID nineteen, 695 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,840 Speaker 1: I felt it was safe to go ahead and become 696 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,879 Speaker 1: a part of my family again. As time went on, 697 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: and after discussing my situation with more medical professionals, I 698 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,919 Speaker 1: wasn't convinced about that negative COVID test. So I went 699 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: to get the anybody test. It was a blood draw 700 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: and it could see if your body had actually fought 701 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: off this virus, and low and behold, it came back positive. 702 00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 1: I had had it. Luckily, nobody in my family sick. 703 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: In fact, my wife had the anybody test and hers 704 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: was negative. I don't know how that happened, but I'm 705 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 1: grateful that it did. There's still so much confusion about 706 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: this disease. My doctor told me that I probably have 707 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,720 Speaker 1: some immunity, but who knows if it's going to last 708 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: for very long at all. Maybe it will get me 709 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: by until there's a vaccine. We just don't know. And 710 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: like everyone we interviewed here said, no one knows how 711 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: long social distancing and business shutdowns can last. But like 712 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: sh Tira said, I think it's important to be compassionate 713 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: with each other, to be patient, and to try as 714 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: best we can to keep each other safe. I hope 715 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 1: you all out there are taking care of yourselves and 716 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: the people around you. I know I am. Until next time, 717 00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: stay safe, stay sane, and keep an eye out. This 718 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 1: for the wide release of Sworn Season two. Sworn is 719 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: a production of Tenderfoot TV and I Heart Media. Our 720 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:16,080 Speaker 1: lead producer is Christina Dana. Executive producers are Payne Lindsay 721 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,360 Speaker 1: and Donald Albright for Tenderfoot TV, Matt Frederick and Alex 722 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,280 Speaker 1: Williams for I Heart Media, and myself Philip Holloway. Additional 723 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: production by Trevor Young, Mason Lindsay, Mike Rooney, Jamie Albright, 724 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,480 Speaker 1: and Hallie beat On. Original music and sound designed by 725 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,960 Speaker 1: Makeup and Vanity Set. Our theme song is Blood in 726 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: the Water by Layup. Show art and design is by 727 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: Trevor Eisler, Editing by Christina Dana, Mixing and mastering by 728 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,760 Speaker 1: Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner. Special thanks to the team 729 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 1: at I Heart Media, from U T a or In 730 00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:00,759 Speaker 1: Rosenbaum and Grace Royer, Ryan Nord and Matthew pap from 731 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 1: the North That Media and Marketing and Station sixteen. I'd 732 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,320 Speaker 1: also like to extend a very personal and special thanks 733 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,360 Speaker 1: to all of our contributors and guests who have helped 734 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,839 Speaker 1: to make all of these episodes possible. You can find 735 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:21,239 Speaker 1: Sworn on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at Sworn podcast and 736 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 1: follow me your host, Philip Halloway on Twitter at Phil 737 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: Holloway e s Q. Our website is Sworn podcast dot com, 738 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,319 Speaker 1: and you can check out other Tenderfoot TV podcasts at 739 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: www dot tenderfoot dot tv. If you have questions or comments, 740 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,360 Speaker 1: you can email us at Sworn at Tenderfoot dot tv 741 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,880 Speaker 1: or leave us a voicemail at four zero four for 742 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:53,240 Speaker 1: one zero zero four four one. As always, thanks for listening. 743 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: I met Phil years go when he worked at the 744 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,800 Speaker 1: Cobb County District Attorney's office, and I thought Phil was 745 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,480 Speaker 1: a complete dick. He uh, he was very, very difficult 746 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,760 Speaker 1: to work with. Phil was no nonsense and we probably 747 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,880 Speaker 1: should have hated each other, but years later we're still friends. 748 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:14,880 Speaker 1: In fact, I was in his wedding