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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, everybody, Welcome to Breaking Points. I feel very

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Speaker 1: weird doing that part. That's normally some Sager is part,

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Speaker 1: but he is out sick today and so Emily is

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Speaker 1: filling in for him.

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Speaker 3: Great to see you, Emily.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me, Crystal, and thank you for sparing

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Speaker 4: my ears. Because when Sager does the good Morning, I

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Speaker 4: feel like I am dying.

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Speaker 5: It is so loud.

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Speaker 1: He really leans into it in a way that I'm

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Speaker 1: just not actually capable of, because.

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Speaker 3: We are the weaker sex.

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Speaker 1: I'm just not capable of that kind of vocal oof

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Speaker 1: that morning. That's exactly right, That's exactly right. Speaking of ears,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot that we were listening to yesterday evening.

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Speaker 1: Trump did his big Twitter spaces with Elon Musk it

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Speaker 1: went just as well, if not even better, than Ron

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Speaker 1: DeSantis's did when he launched his campaign.

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Speaker 3: So we we'll share a.

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Speaker 1: Little bit of they had massive tech problems, it started

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Speaker 1: forty minutes late than when it did start. Trump's sound terrible,

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Speaker 1: and there were a lot of interesting things that anyway,

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Speaker 1: we'll get into all of that. We're also taking a

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Speaker 1: look at some new pulling of where the race stands

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Speaker 1: today Emily, and are going to dig into some policy

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Speaker 1: stuff too. There's been really interesting conversation about the child

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Speaker 1: tax credit. Jaie Vance brought that up in his Sunday

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Speaker 1: Show interviews, so we'll talk about that from a left

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Speaker 1: and right perspective, how realistic that is. Also, Kamalis still

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Speaker 1: hasn't really revealed at all what her policy plan would be.

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Speaker 1: Her running mate Tim Wall suggested what he would like

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Speaker 1: to see them lead with. There's also a lot of

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Speaker 1: discussion among the sort of democratic strategists types of hey.

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Speaker 3: Maybe she just really shouldn't commit to.

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Speaker 1: Any policy because vibes are easier to get on board

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Speaker 1: with than specific policy proposals, So we'll look at that.

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Speaker 1: We're also taking a look at something went viral with

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Speaker 1: regard to the Olympics, there was a number of athletes

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Speaker 1: who were sharing tiktoks and videos of themselves availing themselves

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Speaker 1: of the free healthcare that they could get access to

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Speaker 1: in the Olympic village there and what that says about

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Speaker 1: the American healthcare system. We're also continuing to take a

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Speaker 1: look at what is going on in Israel. Huge internal

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Speaker 1: battle between the Defense Minister Yo of Goalan and bb

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Speaker 1: Net Yahoo as they continue to await whatever the Iranian

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Speaker 1: retaliation is going to be. The US military rushing significant

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Speaker 1: assets into the region and what is a very scary situation.

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Speaker 1: So Omar Badar is going to join us to talk

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Speaker 1: about that. And I'm taking a look at the Israeli economy,

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Speaker 1: something we haven't focused on too much, but there has

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Speaker 1: been massive fallout in the Israeli economy and a potential

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Speaker 1: sort of doom spiral that some experts and analysts are

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Speaker 1: taking a look at as a result of this war.

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Speaker 1: The economic impact of that, and also even before October seventh,

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Speaker 1: had a significant outflow of Israeli's who were upset about

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Speaker 1: the increasingly sort of religious fundamentalist direction of the country.

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Speaker 1: So I'll break all of that down for us in

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Speaker 1: a monologue as well.

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Speaker 5: Chrystal, that is an enormous amount of news.

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Speaker 4: And we're going to start with really what was unfolding

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Speaker 4: last night in all of our ears because Donald Trump

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Speaker 4: and Elon Musk first were delayed. What I think it

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Speaker 4: was forty five minutes. Ultimately forty five minutes. Elon Musk

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Speaker 4: blamed a cyber attack. And I have to say, Crystal,

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Speaker 4: the group chat was absolutely electric.

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Speaker 1: This is the group chat of all of us, Ryan Sager,

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Speaker 1: Ellie and I the producers. We were going back and

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Speaker 1: forth on this one. So first before the big Twitter spaces,

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Speaker 1: this was also consequential. This is actually really probably more

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Speaker 1: consequential ultimately than the Twitter spaces. Donald Trump has made

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Speaker 1: his return to Twitter, so we can put this up

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Speaker 1: on the screen. This was his first tweet back on

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Speaker 1: the platform. He says, are you better off now than

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Speaker 1: you were when I was president? Our economy as shattered,

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Speaker 1: Our border has been a race where a nation in decline.

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Speaker 1: Make the American dream affordable again, make America safe again,

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Speaker 1: make America great again. I'm sure his investors over there

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Speaker 1: at Truth Social, where the platform's sort of entire value

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Speaker 1: proposition was having the sole and exclusive Donald Trump content

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Speaker 1: resigning There are not too happy about this development. What

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Speaker 1: do you think, Emily about the decision for Trump to

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Speaker 1: return to Twitter because of you that I know, Ryan

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Speaker 1: shares and I think I do too. I think Sager

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Speaker 1: does as well. Is that actually kicking Trump off Twitter

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Speaker 1: was doing him accidentally a favor because all of his

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Speaker 1: most insane ratings were no longer in the public's eye

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Speaker 1: twenty four to seven and enabled people to kind of

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Speaker 1: put rose colored glasses on about who he was, and

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Speaker 1: we saw his favorability ratings rise over time during that

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Speaker 1: period that he was off the platform. So to me,

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Speaker 1: this is not necessarily a beneficial move for him and

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Speaker 1: his campaign.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's something to be said for that,

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Speaker 4: although I also think with I wonder how much he

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Speaker 4: actually uses because he sort of flirted with a Twitter

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Speaker 4: comeback before and then it's just like they clearly take

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Speaker 4: all of their posts to truth social So he had

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Speaker 4: that big post we just put up on the screen

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Speaker 4: like you know, we're make the American Dream affordable again,

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Speaker 4: and it's supposed to be a very splashy debut boilerplate.

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Speaker 4: Yeah right, yeah, So does he is he actually going

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Speaker 4: to put all of his various musings that he puts

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Speaker 4: on truth Social on Twitter. If he does, I do

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Speaker 4: buy into the argument that it probably does him more

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Speaker 4: harm than good because Twitter is so forward facing for journalists,

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Speaker 4: it's much much easier to pass around his tweet. The

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Speaker 4: barrier to entry for like dunking on Trump is much

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Speaker 4: lower if you're in the media, and so it just

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Speaker 4: drives that stuff that the Trump campaign would prefer not

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Speaker 4: be front and center in the media conversation. You know,

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Speaker 4: whatever he says about Nika Berzinski's facelift or something like that,

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Speaker 4: it's not the stuff that they want to be talking

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Speaker 4: about because the media will pick up on whatever dumb

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Speaker 4: thing he said, even if to your point, christ like

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Speaker 4: he he sometimes makes some pretty serious policy decisions via tweet.

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Speaker 4: She hires people, hires people via tweet, But it's always

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Speaker 4: the low hanging fruit that ends up becoming front and

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Speaker 4: center to the discourse. And that's what the Trump campaign

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Speaker 4: would rather not be front and center to the media

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Speaker 4: discussion about the candidate at this point. So I don't

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Speaker 4: know how much of a different difference it makes, but

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Speaker 4: I do kind of buy into that argument.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the quote unquote adults in the room of the

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Speaker 1: Trump campaign probably not super psyched about this development. And

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Speaker 1: I mean you guys will all recall back in the

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Speaker 1: Trump highly on Twitter era, all the journalists in DC

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Speaker 1: had notifications set up, so the moment he tweeted something,

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Speaker 1: it was right there on their phone. You know, sometimes

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Speaker 1: things from true social will still pop and go viral

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Speaker 1: and whatever, but it's just not nearly as common. It's

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Speaker 1: not nearly as in your face, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: So we'll see how all of that developments. But let's

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Speaker 1: get to the main event from yesterday.

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Speaker 3: So he decided to do this big interview with.

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk on Elon's Twitter spaces year we'll call Ronda.

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Speaker 1: Santis also decided to do this very regrettably for him,

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Speaker 1: as the launch of his campaign, it was beset with

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Speaker 1: massive technical issues. Well apparently they have not worked out

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Speaker 1: the kinks in however, many months between then and now,

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Speaker 1: because it was again a technical disaster. As you said, Emily,

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Speaker 1: I think they started something like forty five minutes late.

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Speaker 1: Put this up on the screen. Elon claimed that it.

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Speaker 3: Was a d DOS attack, like a cyber attack on X.

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Speaker 1: It didn't really add up because the rest of Twitter

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Speaker 1: was working perfectly fine. Other spaces on Twitter, I believe

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Speaker 1: were working perfectly fine. And The Verge spoke to a

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Speaker 1: number of Twitter employees and they said that it was

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Speaker 1: ninety nine percent certain that Elon was lying about that

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Speaker 1: attack because the rust of bacts did appear to be

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Speaker 1: working normally, and a source of the company confirmed there

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Speaker 1: was not actually a denial of service attack, So, you know,

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Speaker 1: apparently they just still cannot handle the level. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there were a lot of people trying to get in

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Speaker 1: to listen to this thing. When I was on, it

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, one point three million or something

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Speaker 1: who were trying to listen to this audio. And this

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Speaker 1: was after the forty five minute delay, so it was

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Speaker 1: probably even higher when they were trying to start at

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Speaker 1: the original time. They clearly just have not worked out

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Speaker 1: the tech on this to handle this large a number

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Speaker 1: of people coming to listen to any one of their

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Speaker 1: audio only streams. And that's the other thing to remember,

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Speaker 1: this is not even video.

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Speaker 3: It's just audio. It's just audio we're talking about here.

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Speaker 4: Right well, and also Crystal Trump, I thought this was interesting,

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Speaker 4: clearly bought Elon Musk's claims about there being a cyber attack,

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Speaker 4: and Elon Musk, It's not as though he just sort

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Speaker 4: of had that as a throw a throwaway line. As

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Speaker 4: they finally started, and I think he even posted this

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Speaker 4: on X two. He was saying, you know, this is

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Speaker 4: proof that a lot of people don't want to hear

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Speaker 4: what you have to say. And Trump kept saying, you know,

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Speaker 4: congratulations on breaking all the records. And anyway, it just

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Speaker 4: at one point they sort of stopped in the middle

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Speaker 4: of the conversation because Trump was trying to look at

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Speaker 4: the number of concurrence that were in space, and so

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Speaker 4: Trump obviously cared a lot about the numbers, and Elan

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Speaker 4: obviously knew he.

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Speaker 5: Cared a lot about the numbers.

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Speaker 4: And I think clearly it was Elon convinced him that

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Speaker 4: there was indeed some type of cyber warfare.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I or, I mean that was also convenient for Trump.

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Speaker 1: It's also worth keeping in mind as we again to

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Speaker 1: talk about this. Elon Musk is at this point a

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Speaker 1: major donor to Trump's campaign, perhaps the largest donor to

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Speaker 1: Trump's campaign. He is some dispute about how many of

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Speaker 1: his millions he's planning to put in. Originally he had,

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Speaker 1: you know, the indication when we see was going to

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Speaker 1: put in forty five million dollars a month to the

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Speaker 1: Trump campaign. So this is a conversation between Trump, and

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Speaker 1: they framed it very clearly. Elon start ound at the gates, say,

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Speaker 1: this is not I'm not going to ask any hard questions.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be a quote unquote conversation so

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Speaker 1: that you can get the vibes of what Trump is

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Speaker 1: all about. So that's the framework for what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about here, a quote unquote conversation between Trump and one

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Speaker 1: of his largest supporters and you know, billionaire mega donors.

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Speaker 1: And it's also worth recalling when DeSantis did go through

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Speaker 1: a similar incredibly glitchy rollout. The Trump team was, of

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Speaker 1: course totally relentless. You know, they absolutely savaged him for it.

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Speaker 1: We can put this up on the screen as a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a reminder of what they said about

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Speaker 1: DeSantis's botch Twitter rollout, glitchy tech issues, uncomfortable silence, is

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Speaker 1: a complete failure to launch, and that is just the candidate.

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Speaker 1: So a little bit of karmic justice, I guess being

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Speaker 1: repaid to Trump here from the DeSantis team.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, even when DeSantis did it, I

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Speaker 4: still like Elon Must, we always should mention is also

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Speaker 4: a defense contractor. So when he's blaming cyber warfare and

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Speaker 4: they're having those types of conversation.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's important.

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Speaker 4: On the other hand, I do think Donald Trump, the

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Speaker 4: way that Elon Must sort of theoretically said the conversation

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Speaker 4: was going to not be quote adversarial. They were going

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Speaker 4: to have just a discussion. And theoretically, I do think

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Speaker 4: there are too few people who are willing to actually

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Speaker 4: engage with Donald Trump, like on a psychological level. Elon

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Speaker 4: Musk did at the beginning about how he was shot.

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Speaker 4: Of course, Trump said at the RNC that he was

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Speaker 4: never going to talk about when he was shot, and

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Speaker 4: then sort of recounted it to Elon Musk in great detail. Again,

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Speaker 4: and it's just psychologically, I think he's a very interesting character.

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Speaker 4: So I was sort of curious to hear that back

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Speaker 4: and forth with two psychologically interesting characters who are also

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Speaker 4: enormously powerful.

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Speaker 5: But then it just we're about to get into this,

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Speaker 5: I know, but it just went.

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Speaker 4: On and on and it just there was it felt

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Speaker 4: like it wasn't, you know, anchored in anything useful, but

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Speaker 4: we did, I guess gets some bit some policy substance

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Speaker 4: out of it, didn't we Crystal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so a few things. I mean, first of all, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it went on for how long. I actually I bailed

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Speaker 1: at like ten thirty. I have to go to bed, y'all,

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Speaker 1: I have to get up early. So at ten thirty

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Speaker 1: I was like, all right, this is this is all

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Speaker 1: I can do. I think it wrapped up what Emily.

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Speaker 1: You stayed on till the bitter end. Maybe not too

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Speaker 1: long after that, ten fifty or something like that.

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Speaker 5: And then I had a glass of one. I wow,

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Speaker 5: have a glass of one afterwards.

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Speaker 3: Very impressive, very impressive.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of it my big takeaway, just like

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Speaker 1: consuming the as a whole, Most of it was not

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Speaker 1: about Kamala Harris.

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Speaker 3: The overwhelming majority of the.

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Speaker 1: Critique was aimed at Joe Biden, and there was some

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Speaker 1: about Kamla Harrison. I'll play, you know, some of his

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Speaker 1: better hits on her. He hit her a little bit

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Speaker 1: for not doing interviews.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: That was clearly part of the decision to do this

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Speaker 1: conversation with Elon Musk was to make the point about, hey,

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris needs to sit for some interviews and get

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Speaker 1: some FaceTime. He hit her on the stuff you would

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Speaker 1: expect about borders are and she's too liberal, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. But most of what he had to say

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Speaker 1: was about Joe Biden, and I think again reflective of

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Speaker 1: the fact that he is really struggling to move on

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Speaker 1: from his past political opponent. The other thing that you'll notice,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to play this clip for you, you know, right now,

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Speaker 1: talking about like the quote unquote coup that removed Biden

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Speaker 1: from his position, et cetera, et cetera. You'll also probably

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Speaker 1: note right away Trump appears to it sounds like he

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Speaker 1: has a significant lisp in this entire conversation. That was

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Speaker 1: a major also topic of discussion online, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: We did some digging.

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Speaker 1: We asked our audio engineer, hear A breaking points, what's

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Speaker 1: going on with that, because one of the theories was

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Speaker 1: audio compression. So in any case, I'm going to play

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Speaker 1: for you the SoundBite of him talking about Biden and

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Speaker 1: the coup, and then we can talk also about that

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Speaker 1: content and about the quote unquote lisp on the other side.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen.

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Speaker 6: Don't forget I beat I beat Biden. He failed in

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Speaker 6: the debate miserably yeh. He hasn't done an interview since

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Speaker 6: his whole scam started, and say what you want, This

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Speaker 6: was a coup. This was a coup of a president

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Speaker 6: of the United States. He didn't want to leave, and

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Speaker 6: they said, we can do it the nice way.

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Speaker 7: Oh, we can do it the hard way.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm going to just talk him out back behind

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Speaker 8: the shed and basically shot him.

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Speaker 6: Know what they did with this guy? And I'm no

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Speaker 6: fan of his and he was a horrible president, the

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Speaker 6: worst president in history.

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Speaker 1: So emily before we get into the quality of his voice,

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Speaker 1: just your reaction to that particular SoundBite, and also the

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Speaker 1: overall assessment that he spent way more time on Biden

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Speaker 1: than on Kamala Harris.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's right.

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Speaker 4: I think the Trump campaign is still clearly trying to

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Speaker 4: find its footing with the attack on Kamala Harris.

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Speaker 5: They want to build this broader narrative about.

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Speaker 4: Her being a chameleon and somebody you can't trust, and

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Speaker 4: they want to actually extend that to Tim Wallace as well,

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Speaker 4: but they obviously don't. I mean, I think there's a

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Speaker 4: lot to work with there politically. I think there's a

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Speaker 4: lot to work with there, but it has to trickle up,

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Speaker 4: I guess the candidate, and when he's tried it sound

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Speaker 4: it still sounds like he really wants to focus on

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Speaker 4: Joe Biden. And I guess it's fair to a point

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Speaker 4: because Joe Biden is currently the president and there was,

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Speaker 4: as we covered here forever, obviously a cover up, and

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Speaker 4: Kamala Harris was obviously part of that cover up.

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Speaker 5: But I don't know about you, Chrystal.

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Speaker 4: I have this sense that a lot of average voters

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Speaker 4: have kind of moved on from that and watch it

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Speaker 4: like they're just they're so glad to not have to

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Speaker 4: vote for a corpse that they're like, actually they want

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Speaker 4: to hear plans.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, And it's not just my that is my sense,

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Speaker 1: but also the data really backs it up. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've got some close to ninety percent of Americans who

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Speaker 1: were glad that Biden stepped aside, so they're not interested

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Speaker 1: in going back and reltigating it.

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Speaker 3: They're glad that he said, Okay.

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Speaker 1: It's actually one of the most popular things he's ever

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Speaker 1: done as president is to say I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: run again. So no, I don't think that lands we

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Speaker 1: covered yesterday some message testing that the Democrats did, a

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Speaker 1: democratic firm did of like what attacks land the most

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Speaker 1: effectively against Kamala and then how to best parry them.

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Speaker 1: And this stuff about oh, is a coup and it's

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Speaker 1: so unfair, and the stuff about oh, she's not really black,

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Speaker 1: or she you know, changed her identity or whatever. Those

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Speaker 1: were some of the worst tested. I mean, they just

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Speaker 1: were not good attacks on her. And the type of

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Speaker 1: thing that Trump is seems to be fixated right now.

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Speaker 1: And also just you know, it's one thing if you're

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Speaker 1: talking about Biden and you're just constantly tying Kamala to Biden,

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Speaker 1: Kamala to Biden, all the things that you don't like

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Speaker 1: about Biden.

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Speaker 3: I know that is one of their strategies.

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Speaker 1: That sort of the like quote unquote adults in the

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Speaker 1: room want him to pursue, which makes a lot of sense,

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't even that. I mean, most of the

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Speaker 1: time he was just talking about his problems with Joe Biden,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. So in terms of the lisp,

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Speaker 1: we also had some videos that were recorded in the

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Speaker 1: room because one of the things that was floated is, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is an issue with the mic, which again we

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Speaker 1: talked to our audio audio engineer, and he thinks that

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Speaker 1: is part of what's going on. Because if you listen

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Speaker 1: to the clips that were recorded in the room, so

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Speaker 1: this would be coming through a different mic, there still

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Speaker 1: is a little bit of the lisp, but it's not

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Speaker 1: nearly as extreme. So we pulled one of those clips

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Speaker 1: just so you could take a listen to what we

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Speaker 1: were listening to this morning.

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Speaker 7: Well, I think we will. I'm pretty sure we will.

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Speaker 6: And congratulations because I see you broke every record in

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Speaker 6: the book with the so many millions of people, and

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Speaker 6: that's an honor.

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Speaker 7: We view that as an honor.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 1: So we got a quote from our audio engineer, Steve,

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Speaker 1: so I don't screw up any of the technical details here.

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Speaker 1: He says, the native audio recorded on the camera in

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Speaker 1: the room with Trump does suggest he has a slight lisp,

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Speaker 1: which is exacerbated by what looks like a common twenty

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Speaker 1: dollars wireless love and lossy cell phone data compression, both

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Speaker 1: of which can result in smeared sibilants, s's and f's

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Speaker 1: a question with plenty of time to correct the bad audio,

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Speaker 1: for example, switch to Zoom or Skype audio, or simply

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Speaker 1: use the phone's microphone before eight pm or during the

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Speaker 1: forty minute delay.

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Speaker 3: Why wouldn't they, or better, why.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't two of the most high profile personalities in the

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Speaker 1: world bring for a professional audio engineer on one end

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Speaker 1: or the other. So Emily, that is the official assessment

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Speaker 1: of the breaking points audio engineer.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly what I was going to say, Crystal, done

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Speaker 4: to every last detail.

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Speaker 3: The sibilance, if you were on top of the sibilants.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was going to bring up the sibilants. I

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Speaker 5: think that's crucial to this, but you know it is.

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Speaker 4: We were just talking about how so many people are

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Speaker 4: glad they're not having to vote for a course, Trump

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Speaker 4: is old too, and some people were like, are his

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Speaker 4: dentures slipping?

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Speaker 5: This was like the discourse on X.

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Speaker 4: I have no idea, but I do think anytimes it's

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Speaker 4: fair game anytime an older person who wants to be

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Speaker 4: president of the United States seems to be struggling with basics, words,

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Speaker 4: et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And it also raises I mean, we had a lot

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Speaker 1: of discourse about this with regard to Biden, and it's

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Speaker 1: fair game for Trump as well, because and I do think,

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Speaker 1: you know, Biden being so old and so obviously in decline,

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Speaker 1: it did hide the fact that, hey, Trump is also

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Speaker 1: an old dude. To me, what's most noticeable isn't in

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Speaker 1: any of these like you know.

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Speaker 3: Verbal slips or whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's his inability to be nimble and grapple with the circumstances.

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Speaker 1: This is something you know, you see in older people.

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Speaker 1: You're sort of locked into a routine or you're locked

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Speaker 1: into a way of thinking and becomes more difficult to adjust.

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Speaker 1: And his inability to move on from Biden seems to

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Speaker 1: me to be part of, you know, representative of the

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Speaker 1: age bracket that he's in at this point. But it

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Speaker 1: also raised questions that you know, we were asking you

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Speaker 1: mentioned our group chat. We were asking the group chat

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Speaker 1: of like, you know, he only did he did this

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Speaker 1: one rally in Montana. He doesn't have any other rallies

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Speaker 1: on the schedule for this month. That is a dramatic

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Speaker 1: difference from twenty twenty, even more dramatic difference from twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: So it does ask, you know, raise a question in

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Speaker 1: your mind of is there something going on here when

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Speaker 1: you have you know, this consistent verbal issue that I

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Speaker 1: have never really noticed before with him over the course

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Speaker 1: of this entire interview.

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Speaker 4: I would imagine that security and money are probably involved

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Speaker 4: in the rallies. I don't know if it's also an

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Speaker 4: energy thing. I do think he sounded, since he was

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Speaker 4: literally shot in the head, like he has like less energy.

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Speaker 4: He seemed a little like, I don't know, down is

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Speaker 4: the right word. That's just something I've picked up on,

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Speaker 4: and it's totally understandable if you're a literal elderly man

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Speaker 4: who took.

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Speaker 5: A bullet to the ear.

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Speaker 4: So I get that, although I do also suspect that

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Speaker 4: those rallies are just crazy expensive. The security situation is

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Speaker 4: now obviously totally different.

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Speaker 5: So I don't know what's going on there.

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Speaker 4: But he has seemed lower energy, and you know, to

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Speaker 4: your point about him being older, he gets caught up

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Speaker 4: in these stories like people's grandfathers.

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00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 5: Do you know what I mean? Like just this.

440
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 4: I think that's part of the reason why this thing

441
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 4: didn't end for two hours. They just kept going down

442
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 4: different off on different tangents. And when people call it rambling,

443
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 4: it really was and not. You know, Trump can be

444
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,400
Speaker 4: interesting when he rambles sometimes, but this definitely wasn't that.

445
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,120
Speaker 1: Okay, we did get a little bit of I think

446
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 1: policy news out of this, which is, you know, one

447
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 1: of the Project twenty twenty five priorities has been eliminating

448
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: the Department of Education. To my knowledge, Trump had never

449
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 1: verbally signed on and endorsed that idea. He made a point,

450
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 1: actually brought it up himself in this interview, made a

451
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 1: point of backing this idea of complete elimination of the

452
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 1: Department of Education. Let's take a listen to that.

453
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 6: What I'm going to do one of the first accidents.

454
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 6: This is where I need an Elon Musk. I need

455
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 6: somebody that has a lot of strength and courage and smarts.

456
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,640
Speaker 6: I want to close up Department of Education, move education

457
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 6: back to the states, where states like Iowa, where states

458
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,680
Speaker 6: like Idaho. You know, not every state will do great

459
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 6: because states that basically.

460
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,879
Speaker 7: Aren't doing good. Now you look at.

461
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 6: Gavin Newscombe, the governor of California. He's terrible. He's does

462
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 6: a terrible job, so he's not going to do great

463
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 6: with education. But of fifty I would bet that thirty

464
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 6: five would do great, and fifteen of.

465
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 5: Them, or you know, twenty of them will.

466
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 6: Be as good as Norway. You know, Norway is considered great.

467
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 1: Not exactly compelling pitch for this idea, and you're like, well,

468
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: some of the states, you know, the kids in California,

469
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 1: I guess they're screwed, but others may do okay, Emily,

470
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 1: But I mean more noteworthy is just him backing one

471
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 1: of the significant policy ideas on a Project twenty twenty five?

472
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 5: Did he say Gavin new scum?

473
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 1: Like?

474
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 5: Was it supposed to.

475
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 3: Be a I don't know, did you.

476
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 5: Just get the name wrong?

477
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 4: Well, either way, Yeah, So the Heritage Foundation actually back

478
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,159
Speaker 4: in the eighties attacked the Reagan administration, and this is

479
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 4: it goes along way towards explaining why a lot of

480
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 4: so called like movement conservatives really latched onto Trump. The

481
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 4: Heritage Foundation in the eighties, which takes a lot of

482
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 4: credit for the Reagan Revolution, was attacking the Reagan administration

483
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 4: for not abolishing the Department of Education. If you go

484
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 4: back and look at their publications from the mid eighties,

485
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 4: they were like, what happened? Why has the Apartment of

486
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 4: Education been abolished yet? And so it's kind of like

487
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 4: Trump embracing this. It's an example of him being sort

488
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 4: of this willing conduit for ideas that movement conservatives have

489
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 4: had for a really long time. They just haven't had

490
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 4: a vehicle for them, because there's no way in.

491
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 5: Hell George W.

492
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 4: Bush is going to get rid of the Department of Education.

493
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 4: So I think it's an interesting example of where a

494
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 4: lot of people kind of in the conservative movement have

495
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 4: saw with Trump someone who really will do some of

496
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 4: those Admittedly, I'm someone who would support scaling the Department

497
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 4: of Education to a state level.

498
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 5: But that's admittedly like a radical position.

499
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 4: That's admittedly like an extreme position and one that no

500
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 4: Republican would dare touch other than Donald Trump.

501
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 5: Probably. Yeah.

502
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: Well, they spent some time too talking about He brought

503
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: up what did he say, like there's a place called

504
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: Argentina something like that.

505
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, talking about.

506
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 5: Here that this is one of their tangents.

507
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 4: They went so deep on la and he said, in

508
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,199
Speaker 4: a place called Argentina, man ran on Maga worked out

509
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 4: beautifully because to make Argentina great again.

510
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 5: And they just did that for ten minutes.

511
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, I mean, Javier Malay is you know,

512
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: sort of anarcho capitalist, like hard libertarian, which is the

513
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 1: opposite of It's funny for Trump to say this is

514
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: Maga when in reality you know, the conception that was

515
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: supposed to exist in twenty sixteen of MAGA was actually,

516
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: we're getting away from these like hardcore libertarian ideas and

517
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: there's more of a place for industrial policy, or we're

518
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: going to talk about JD vans with child tax cred

519
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So I mean, to me, it's

520
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 1: just emblematic, as you said, Emily, of Trump doesn't have

521
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: a lot of his own ideology. It's just sort of

522
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: whatever's laying around, which is why he ends up in

523
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: his first term doing this massive tax cut largely for

524
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: the rich, because this was a project that had been developed,

525
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: you know, Paul Ryan, Heritage, et cetera, had this thing

526
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: locked and loaded, ready to go, and so that's why

527
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: that ends up being the main policy accomplishment of the

528
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: Trump administration. So you know, when there's there's an attempt

529
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 1: by the Trump campaign to distance themselves from Project twenty

530
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: twenty five, because it's always difficult to defend anything that's

531
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: going to be in a nine hundred page policy document.

532
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 3: They don't want to have that hung around their neck.

533
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: But it's entire reasonable to look and say, no, this

534
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: is this big, massive conservative project. This is the plan

535
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 1: that exists and is likely major pieces of it to

536
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: be implemented in your administration. I think this this moment

537
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: is sort of confirmation of that. Moving on to some

538
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: of the attacks that he did manage to make on Kamala,

539
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,239
Speaker 1: some of them were, you know, in the zone of

540
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: what his campaign has tested and what they think will

541
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: work most effectively against her. In particular, he talks some

542
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: about her role as the quote unquote borders are under

543
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: the Biden administration.

544
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen to a little bit of that.

545
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 6: And she's in charge of it because you know, now

546
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 6: she's trying to say she had nothing to do with it,

547
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 6: and she's such a liar because she was called the

548
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 6: borders are the first day and it was on the

549
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 6: headlines of every newspaper. She's the borders are and she

550
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 6: never even went there. She went to one location which

551
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 6: had nothing to do with where the problem is. You know,

552
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 6: she went in and out, I guess because she was

553
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 6: getting a lot of pressure, but had nothing to do

554
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 6: with the problem was. But here was the borders are,

555
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 6: and you people can't allow them to get away with

556
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 6: their disinformation campaign. Now she's trying to say that she

557
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 6: wasn't really involved, and the whole thing is horrible. She

558
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 6: was totally in charge. She could have shut the border

559
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 6: down without him. He didn't know what he was doing anyways,

560
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 6: he wouldn't have even known what happened.

561
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Emilye politically, I do think this is

562
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 1: one of their moresalient attacks, both because this is the

563
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: one issue where he really clearly has an advantage over

564
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris in terms of who is more trusted to

565
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: handle the issue, and it's one of the only issues

566
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 1: that the Biden administration really put into her sphere. She

567
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 1: benefits from the fact that in a lot of ways

568
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: she was sort of, you know, kept at arms distance

569
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: from most of the Biden administration, and so she doesn't

570
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: get a lot of the blame for anything else that

571
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: he did that may have been unpopular, or just the

572
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: state of the economy which is unpopular. But here, you know,

573
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: she really was put in charge the border. She really

574
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: was sent out to do that interview. She really was

575
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:57,719
Speaker 1: sent out to, you know, go and try to get

576
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 1: to the root causes of the problem and so make

577
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: it more difficult for her to distance herself from what

578
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: has been an unpopular track record in the Biden administration.

579
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 5: Her fingerprints are all over it.

580
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 4: And I also think what's powerful here is how horrible

581
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 4: the media covers has been. And that's where he kind

582
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 4: of started that specific tangent with is that. I guess

583
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 4: it wasn't a tangent, but that specific line of argument

584
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 4: with saying the media is covering for her she was

585
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 4: the borders are and that's going to be really powerful

586
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 4: for the Trump campaign. I don't know if like journalists

587
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 4: understand how powerful that is for the Trump campaign.

588
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 5: But when you're able to put.

589
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 4: These headlines side by side, and when Trump is able

590
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 4: to make that point over and over again at rallies

591
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 4: and interviews, and you know it.

592
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 5: Trickles into new media spaces.

593
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 4: It is such a glaring example of media dishonesty that

594
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 4: it does no favors to Kamala Harris.

595
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 5: Actually when you're able.

596
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 4: To call attention to it, because it has been really,

597
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 4: really bad. The cleanup job and the rehabilitation of Kamala

598
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 4: Harris's image not just on the border, but definitely on

599
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 4: the border also though kind of a across the board,

600
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 4: So I think that gives it an extra as he

601
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 4: and you can hear it in that interview. It's what

602
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 4: animates him more than anything. It's hard for her to

603
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 4: get away from the very bad policies of the Biden

604
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 4: administration on the border, which even if you're like left

605
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 4: or right, you have a problem with it. There's basically

606
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 4: nobody who's happy with the Biden border policies.

607
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's true because you know, in my view

608
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: from a left perspective, they just adopted a lot of

609
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: the hardline tactics of Trump, which Kamala Harris ran aggressively

610
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: against in twenty twenty, and even just from political perspective,

611
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: And I talked to Sagera about this some yesterday, so

612
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: I won't totally, you know, relitigate all of it. But

613
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: she's out with this new end that Trump's kind of

614
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: referring to there. It's painting her as really tough on

615
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: the border and basically adopting the Republican framing of you know,

616
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: the thing we need to focus on is just a

617
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: crackdown and effectively seating the ground that oh, immigration is

618
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: just bad in general, and it's not even the most

619
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: effective political message, and it does open her up to

620
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: a very clear attack of this is not at all

621
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: what you sounded like two minutes ago. You know, this

622
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: is very, very different from the way you talked about

623
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: and the way you felt about immigrants and immigration back

624
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: when you were running in twenty twenty. And so not

625
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: only do I think it opens her up to a

626
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: really clear and fair hit on hey, this is you know,

627
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: this is a major flip flop, but I also don't

628
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: think that it is the most compelling political strategy for

629
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: her to just buy into the Republican framing around immigration,

630
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: because you're never going to be perceived as being war

631
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: hardline on immigration than Donald Trump. And again, there was

632
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: some message testing that bore that out that actually the

633
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: most effective message for her to pairing these attacks about

634
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,479
Speaker 1: her being quote unquote borders are was for her to

635
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: talk about make a pathway to citizenship and yes, people.

636
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 3: Should come here legally. My own parents did come here.

637
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: Legally, but we need to have a pathway that's available,

638
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: and right now that's just not the case. So, you know,

639
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: creating a totally different narrative and vision around immigrants and

640
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: around immigration versus just accepting the Donald Trump framing of

641
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: like immigration is bad and we need to stop at

642
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:00,719
Speaker 1: period end of story.

643
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I completely agree with that I don't think

644
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 4: it's smart politically for her to do it. I don't

645
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 4: think it's going to end well politically for her, because

646
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 4: this is the crux of the argument that the Trump

647
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 4: campaign is developing. They clearly don't have it like totally

648
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 4: perfect yet, and that's because of the candidate was sort

649
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 4: of changed right before I can mention, and they're working

650
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 4: to develop a whole new campaign strategy. But the centerpiece

651
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 4: of it is going to be that she's a chameleon,

652
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 4: that she's a.

653
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 5: Flip flopper, that you can't trust her.

654
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,239
Speaker 4: That and this goes to the tax on tips thing

655
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 4: as well, that she's just blowing wherever the political winds

656
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 4: take her, and doing that on perhaps the central issue

657
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 4: of the campaign, on the sort of in a way

658
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 4: that makes your opponent's central argument. It just seems incredibly stupid.

659
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 4: And by the way, Biden ran against the Trump border policies,

660
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 4: like all of their rhetorics and Democratic candidates in twenty

661
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 4: nineteen and twenty twenty, that their voters clearly wanted to

662
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 4: hear was against it. And grant that we've had four

663
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 4: years or three years now of a failed experiment in

664
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 4: terms of Biden's policy, but I think.

665
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 5: The rhetoric about.

666
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 4: Again I don't agree with the framing, but the rhetoric

667
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 4: about compassion and welcoming immigrants, it works really well with

668
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 4: a big chunk of voters in the suburbs, especially that

669
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 4: they need.

670
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's popular.

671
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: I mean, when you pull on immigration, it depends so

672
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: much on the question that you ask, because broadly speaking,

673
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: Americans do really value our self conception as a nation

674
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: of immigrants, as a welcoming place, as the great melting pot.

675
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: And so not only did Biden run on that type

676
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: of rhetic in twenty twenty, he won on that type

677
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: of rhetoric in twenty twenty. So, you know, I think

678
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: that this is I think this is an error. You know, morally,

679
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: I object to the policy direction, but I think also

680
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: it's an error politically. And we've seen not just here,

681
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: but there was a study of European parties and leaders

682
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: who tried to move to the right. These were sort

683
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: of like center left type, you know, Emmanuel Macron types

684
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: who try to move to the right on immigration signal

685
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: that oh, actually I'm the hawk on immigration, and it

686
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: doesn't work because it demoralizes their own base and it's

687
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: not credible to you know, voters who are immigration hawk

688
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: voters that they're going to be more hawkish than the

689
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: right wing people.

690
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 3: My own sense of this politically is that most of

691
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 3: the people who.

692
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: Are single issue immigration voters, like they're not going to

693
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: be voting for Kamala Harris anyway. So I don't know

694
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: that it has the that it is the salient issue

695
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: or the top issue that Republicans really hope that it

696
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: will be. But there's no doubt in my mind that

697
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: this is one of the places where they can draw blood.

698
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: They're going to draw blood that they're going to lean into,

699
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: and she's going to have to find a better way

700
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: to deal with this, in my opinion, than she has

701
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: thus far. But moving on, Emily, there are also some

702
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: just like really weird moments, of course, in this long

703
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: conversation between these two very you know, unique, we'll.

704
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 3: Say, individuals.

705
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: One of them, in particular, Trump starts talking about there's

706
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: a new Time magazine cover of Kamala Harris, which actually

707
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: go ahead and put a eight up on the screen, guys,

708
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: just so you can see it. You know, it's this

709
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: very like, hey, geographic puff piece of Kamala Harris. Her

710
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: moment which she didn't even sit for the interview for

711
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: this freaking puff piece, which is kind of pathetic.

712
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 3: But anyway, she looks great in the cover.

713
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: You know, she's an attractive woman, and they have sort

714
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: of this drawing of her where she looks really you know,

715
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: dignifying and really fabulous. And Trump talks in this interview

716
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: about how beautiful she looks here and how much she

717
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: reminds him of his wife, Milania.

718
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 3: So let's take a little in that.

719
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 6: And actually, she looked very much like our great first

720
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 6: lady Milania. She looks she didn't look she didn't look

721
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 6: like Camilla.

722
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 5: That's right.

723
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 6: But of course she's a beautiful woman.

724
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 7: So we'll leave it at that.

725
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, what is he doing?

726
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:48,479
Speaker 5: What is he doing?

727
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 4: And then he called her Camilla like does he think

728
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 4: Camilla bucker bulls?

729
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 9: Like?

730
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 4: It's just it was that was incredible, maybe worth staying

731
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 4: up for.

732
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 3: There was another moment.

733
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: This was on really on Elon's end, and most of

734
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: the time it was just Trump talking and Elon could

735
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: barely get a word in edgewise. But when they started

736
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: talking about energy, Elon, of course, you know, with the

737
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: evs and whatever, he had a lot of thoughts about energy,

738
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: and he starts going off on this tangent about how

739
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: actually nuclear fallout is not that big a deal and

740
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: it's like overstated how dangerous nuclear fallout radiation is. He's

741
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 1: talking about Fukushima, you know, the Japanese nuclear power plant

742
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: that melted down, and he starts talking about how even hey,

743
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: Hiroshima and Nagasaki, like they're great cities now, so it's

744
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: really not that scary.

745
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 3: It was like, what this is total?

746
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: To me, that was the most insane moment of the

747
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: whole thing. Trump just nodded along with it. He didn't

748
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: really like pushback or say anything. It was mostly on

749
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: Elon's But to be like, eh, nuclear weapons, nuclear fallout,

750
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: that whole chernobyl thing, no big deal it was. It

751
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: was really overblown. Was kind of crazy to me, Emily.

752
00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 4: We need to overcome our fears of nuclear catastrophe, like

753
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 4: an apocalypse.

754
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 5: It's it's just holding us back.

755
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 4: But you know what, it came in the context of

756
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 4: a somewhat interesting conversation because Elon was trying to make

757
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 4: a point that he believes in climate change, he just

758
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 4: doesn't see it as a sort of emergency or an

759
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 4: urgent apocalypse, and I felt like he was trying to

760
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 4: get Trump's response to that, and Trump just was not.

761
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 5: Taking the taking the bait. He wasn't willing to.

762
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 4: Say, yes, climate change is real, and it seemed like

763
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,479
Speaker 4: there I had two guesses. One, Elon Musk was trying

764
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 4: to signal to everybody listening that, like he repeated over

765
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 4: and over again.

766
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,479
Speaker 5: I have always seen myself as someone on the left.

767
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 4: And Trump at one point said, yes, Elon, I've always

768
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 4: thought of you as being somewhat left, and you know,

769
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 4: they it was trying to make a point like I

770
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 4: am not. I have not been this like red meat conservative,

771
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 4: and I felt like he was trying to do that

772
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 4: with the climate thing, or he was like, you know,

773
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 4: I'm not maybe Ted Cruz or whomever. But Trump just

774
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 4: didn't take the bait at all, and they ended up down.

775
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 5: This like little detour.

776
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 4: I guess it wasn't a detour, this little uh, what's

777
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 4: the right phrase, what's the right metaphor for that, crystal?

778
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 5: But it's not a detour.

779
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 4: It was like a wrong turn down the road about Fukushima.

780
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 3: Right right exactly.

781
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: And then yeah, as part of that, Trump responded that, hey,

782
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 1: if the oceans rise a little bit, I guess there'll

783
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: be more ocean front property. So he definitely was not

784
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: going with Elon along the Yeah, climate change, you know,

785
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: it is a thing. It is a thing maybe we

786
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: have to be concerned about. So in any case, before

787
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: we move on to some of the latest pulling, any

788
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: other reflections or overall takeaways on the big the big

789
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: Twitter spaces here, there's a lot of propaganda on Twitter

790
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: this morning.

791
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 3: Oh billion people's et et cetera.

792
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: These numbers are totally faked, by the way, and also

793
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: because they usually count, they put it on everyone's timeline, right,

794
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: So it was like unavoidable. So I don't doubt that

795
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: there were you know, a lot of people that scrolled

796
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: by it or saw that it existed, or like popped

797
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: in for five seconds and then we're like, this is horrible.

798
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not.

799
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: Sitting through this three hour discussion as we did. But

800
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: what is your own overall takeaway on the success or

801
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: impact or lack thereof of this conversation?

802
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 4: You know, I thought overall it could have been really interesting,

803
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 4: but I guess maybe it never could have.

804
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 5: Been really interesting, if that makes sense.

805
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 4: Like it they're two interesting people It reminds me of

806
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 4: those SNL sketches where they put like Born together with

807
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 4: Charles Barkley on that old It's like a mocking sketch

808
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 4: of something that used to be on I think Bravo,

809
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,439
Speaker 4: and they put them both together and they have these

810
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 4: like they take them to in the SNL sketch a

811
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 4: cheesecake factory, and it's just mocking this idea that you

812
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 4: put to totally like interesting people together, you don't always

813
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 4: get something interesting. And that was you know, there was

814
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 4: so much just agreement. There was so much signaling, like

815
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 4: they were trying to both I think really signal to

816
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 4: different you know, maybe it was donors or their peers

817
00:37:58,760 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 4: that you know they.

818
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 5: Were doing one thing or the other, like with the

819
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 5: climate stuff.

820
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 4: And you know, it's just important to remember that a

821
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 4: tiny fraction of the public is on X a tiny

822
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 4: fraction of the public, let alone in primetime on a

823
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 4: spaces So I don't think it's going to move the

824
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 4: needle much in either direction. And I do think it's

825
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 4: interesting that Elon Musk was willing to do this experiment

826
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 4: again after the DeSantis one had so many issues getting

827
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 4: off the ground, and that Trump I imagine his team

828
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 4: was reassured over and over again that they would not

829
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 4: have any issues getting off the ground. And when you

830
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 4: have a source in that Verge article saying there wasn't

831
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 4: a cyber attack.

832
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know how that ended up happening.

833
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think you know to the extent that

834
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: this has any longer term repercussions. It's just listen, this

835
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: is a campaign that doesn't have a lot of time.

836
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: You know, they've already wasted a number of crucial weeks

837
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: where the public is deciding what they think about Kamala Harrison.

838
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: Now what they're thinking about Kamala Harris and Tim Walls,

839
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: and the fact that you've spent those weeks, you know,

840
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: spinning your wheels and going on with Aiden Ross and

841
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: launching weird attacks about is she black or is she

842
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: Indian and not.

843
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 3: Effectively defining her.

844
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of the big things that came

845
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: out of the New York Times SIENA battleground poll that

846
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: Saga and I talked about yesterday is you know, they

847
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: tested a bunch of different character character traits on Kamala Harris,

848
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: and she you know, people saw her as intelligent, they

849
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: saw her as caring about people like them. You didn't

850
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: even have a majority saying she was too liberal. So

851
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: there's plenty to work with that's out there. The Trump

852
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: campaign knows that, you know, they've done the testing, they've

853
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 1: done the polling, they know what the focused group results say, etc.

854
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: But because Trump is such a dominant figure that his

855
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: messaging over whatever the paid communications are, are going to be

856
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: way more effective, and because he really can't grapple with

857
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: it now being Kamala Harris, they have already burned through

858
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 1: a bunch of time. Now we're headed into the DNC

859
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: and then you're headed into labor day and you're in

860
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: the home stretch, and every day that goes by, where

861
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: the true campaign isn't defining Harrison Walls, you combat the

862
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: Democrats are defining themselves in the most positive way. The

863
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: media is certainly happy to give them an assist, and

864
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: at the same time defining Trump and Jade Vance in

865
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: particular in the most negative way possible, which you know

866
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: we're about to get to.

867
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 3: So that's to me.

868
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: That's the broader significance, not any particular thing that they said,

869
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: even though some of it was kind of interesting and

870
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: also kind of Wow, some of it. Most of it

871
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: was actually really largely boring and uninteresting. But just the

872
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: fact that they continue to burn time and attention and

873
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: resources that they really don't have at this point when

874
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: you're talking about getting into you know, a home stretch

875
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: in a really condensed campaign timeline.

876
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 4: I think that's a great point. I think it's a

877
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 4: great point. And like looking to not seem niche.

878
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 5: And quote weird. Yeah, there's just a lot of central

879
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 5: kitchen table issues that need to be emphasized.

880
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and get to some of the polling.

881
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: One of the interesting things that can put this up

882
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: on the screen that this individual was noting is Kamala

883
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,919
Speaker 1: has always has obviously turned this race upside down.

884
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 2: Right.

885
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: Trump had a very clear and consistent lead. He was

886
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: ahead in all the battleground states. You know, it looked

887
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: like things were just going his way indefinitely. Here Biden

888
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: incapable of turning things around. But if you look at

889
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: the top line number here for Trump in terms of

890
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: how he was pulling against Biden, he was at an

891
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,919
Speaker 1: average of forty three point five percent of the vote.

892
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: It's just Biden was down at forty percent of the vote.

893
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: So if you look at the next chart that we

894
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: can put up on the screen, Trump's total actually hasn't

895
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: budged at all with the switch of Kamala Harris into

896
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: the race. He is still averaging forty three point five

897
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 1: percent of the vote. It's just that Kamala Harris has

898
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: added nearly six points to Biden's total and she is

899
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 1: up at forty five point nine percent of the vote.

900
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: And I thought that was really interesting, Emily, because you know,

901
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: one of the things that has happened for Trump over

902
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: the past several weeks, especially post assassination attempt, his favorables

903
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: are actually some of the best that he's had, maybe

904
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: ever and certainly in years. But his pole position has

905
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: not budged. I do think that he has, you know,

906
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: quite a feeling on his support because while Kamala Harris

907
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: is really being defined right now and Tim Wallas is

908
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: being defined, Jadie Vance is being defined, people know how

909
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: they feel about Donald Trump. There's not much you can

910
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: say about this man at this point that is going.

911
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 3: To change people's views of.

912
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: How they feel about him, love him, hate him, or

913
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle. So if I was the Trump campaign,

914
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: I would actually find this very concerning because they no

915
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: matter what has happened in the race, they basically have

916
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: been unable to move the needle beyond this forty three

917
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: point five percent of the vote total, and obviously that

918
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: would be insufficient to win either the popular vote or

919
00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: the electoral College.

920
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 4: The ceiling is exactly the word that I was going

921
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 4: to use, and I think that's always been a huge

922
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 4: problem for Donald Trump.

923
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 5: And what happens is that you can get to November.

924
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 4: And if you can successfully define Kamala Harris and maybe

925
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 4: to something sent Tim Walls as extremists. Trump, on his

926
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 4: call with Elon referred to her as a San Francisco Liberal,

927
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 4: which sounds kind of boomery, but San Francisco is such

928
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 4: a mess right now that it just might work in

929
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 4: places where, in fact there are a lot of boomer voters.

930
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 5: And if you can.

931
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 4: Do that in the weeks up to the leading up

932
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 4: to the election and really paint them that way, then

933
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 4: maybe some of that support that has gone to Kamala

934
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 4: Harris in the aftermath of Biden dropping out leaves her

935
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 4: and some of it goes to him. Not all of

936
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 4: it is going to go to him. Some of it

937
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 4: may go to Jill Stein. Some of it may go

938
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 4: to just not voting. So if he can do that,

939
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 4: that's where when people actually go to pull the lever,

940
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 4: so to speak, he can make gains as people who

941
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 4: say I.

942
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 5: Just can't but I don't like Donald Trump, But.

943
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 4: Man, I really I don't want Kamala Harris to turn

944
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 4: America into San Francisco.

945
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 5: Whatever it is.

946
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 4: That's where the ceiling can suddenly be like budged up

947
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 4: on election day. But it's tough. I mean, that's extremely

948
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 4: hard to do. And that was one of his biggest

949
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 4: problems with Biden. It's that like they were both racing

950
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:25,439
Speaker 4: to see who had the slightly higher ceiling, who could

951
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 4: just like find a way to like a herculean you know,

952
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 4: I can budget up one inch on election day because honestly,

953
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 4: they both weren't very well liked. And if Kamala Harris

954
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 4: can be well liked, that sort of game over.

955
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 5: In my opinion, I don't know how well that's going

956
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 5: to go for her, because this is what.

957
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 4: Happened with her twenty twenty campaign. Had a honeymoon after

958
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 4: a great rollout, was getting amazing media coverage, and because

959
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 4: she goes into these weird rabbit holes about the significance

960
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 4: of the passage of time.

961
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 5: It goes away.

962
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, true, No, that's absolutely true. Right now she has

963
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: we're all positive favorability rating. Her faves have gone through

964
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: the roof in a really quite an extraordinary way. Tim Walls,

965
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: also very popular, is actually the most popular person of

966
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: any of these four individuals at this point. So right

967
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: now you have a ticket that has pretty high favorability

968
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: versus a ticket that has fairly low laved favorability, but

969
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: cannot last because right now Kamala Harris is kind of

970
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: in the sweet spot of the generic Democrat. By the

971
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: time you get to November, She's not going to be

972
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: a generic Democrat anymore.

973
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 3: She's going to be defined.

974
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 1: So, you know, are they able to bring down those

975
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: favorability ratings and you know, bring back some of the

976
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 1: concern that surrounded Biden, not about her age, but about

977
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: whatever it is that you know most lands for voters.

978
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: The other person who's a major factor in this, of course,

979
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: is RFK Junior. There was just a court ruling in

980
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: New York kicking him off the ballot there, which I

981
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: think is outrageous.

982
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 3: By the way. I think this. You know, they make it.

983
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: Far too difficult for third party candidates to be on

984
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 1: the ballot, regardless of how you feel about RFK Junior

985
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: in particular, but they said that he was using sort

986
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: of a sham address and so got kicked off the

987
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: ballot in New York. It could precipitate other states making

988
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,839
Speaker 1: the same decision. But you know, one of the things

989
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 1: that's happened post Biden drop out is some of the

990
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: people who were disaffective voters Biden voters who were backing

991
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: RFK Junior have now come home to the Democratic Party

992
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: with Kamala Harris, and so you do have a more

993
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: clear dynamic of RFK Junior taking away from Trump. So

994
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: the other thing that could change that ceiling for Trump

995
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: is if RFK Junior isn't on a lot of ballots,

996
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: that pretty clearly helps Trump and adds you know, a

997
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: couple percentage points potentially to his totals in you know

998
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 1: states where that could end up really being the difference.

999
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 1: So that's the other factor to keep an eye on here.

1000
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 1: Harry Enton over at CNN dug into some of the

1001
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: recent polling and found that one of the key reasons

1002
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: why Kamala Harris has improved so much over where Joe

1003
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: Biden was is because more voters now say, of the

1004
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: top issues I'm concerned about, she actually is the person

1005
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: who is most focused on them.

1006
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 3: Let's take a look out what they had to say.

1007
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 10: Trust more on the issue that's most important to you.

1008
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 10: This is among likely voters. And June, we're gonna look

1009
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 10: at a nationalvert.

1010
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 7: Look at this.

1011
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 10: We see Donald Trump at fifty percent. Look at Joe

1012
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 10: Biden at just forty percent. So Donald Trump had a

1013
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 10: ten point lead on the issue that folks said was

1014
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 10: most important to them. They could list any issue. Jump

1015
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 10: forward now to Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

1016
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 11: What do we see.

1017
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 10: We see a completely different ballgame. We see Harris at

1018
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 10: fifty percent. We see Donald Trump at forty eight percent,

1019
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 10: within the margin of our but.

1020
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 5: A ten point advantage for Trump.

1021
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 10: I mean, you you go, and this this is the

1022
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 10: type of stuff that campaigns dream about and the Donald

1023
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 10: Trump nightmares about. Look at this, Harris, now with the

1024
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 10: two point advantage. This is significant movement. This is the

1025
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 10: type of movement that turns losers, which Joe Biden was

1026
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 10: a gunst Donald Trump in the winners, or at least

1027
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 10: leaders in the case of Kamala Harris over Donalds. And again,

1028
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 10: we don't know which issue is most important to each voter,

1029
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 10: but in terms of what they think is most important

1030
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 10: to them, that's where.

1031
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 3: Things have shift.

1032
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 6: So that could be inflation, it could be immigration, it

1033
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 6: could be abortion.

1034
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 10: Could be protecting democracy, it could.

1035
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 5: Be protecting democracy.

1036
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 10: Earn their position. Kamala Harris, forty five percent of voters

1037
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 10: say that she earned her position. Compare that to Donald

1038
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 10: Trump just forty two percent. Donald Trump and his campaign

1039
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 10: is losing the messaging.

1040
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 11: War right here. How about they are weird?

1041
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 10: This is not where Donald Trump wants to be leading in.

1042
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,280
Speaker 10: But fifty five percent of voters in those seven states

1043
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 10: say that Donald Trump is weird, compared to just thirty

1044
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 10: nine percent for Harris. So the Harris campaign, their messaging

1045
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 10: or the messaging against them is not working for the

1046
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 10: Trump campaign, and the messaging from the Harris campaign is

1047
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 10: working against.

1048
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 7: The Trump campaign.

1049
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 3: What do you make of those numbers? Emily?

1050
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 4: I think that whole question is extremely useful, actually, and

1051
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 4: I don't think that about a lot of poll questions,

1052
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 4: but that one is super interesting because it's one thing

1053
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 4: to just pull people's top issues and then look at

1054
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 4: how they think, you know, any given candidate is doing

1055
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 4: on that issue.

1056
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 5: We don't know. It just doesn't give us as good.

1057
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 4: Of a window as just plainly asking on your top

1058
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 4: issue and comparing snapshots in time to each other. So

1059
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 4: I think that's very significant. I think it shows, from

1060
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 4: my perspective, how powerfully the media is still manipulating public opinion.

1061
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 5: That's not to say I don't think the Trump campaign

1062
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 5: is making mistakes. I do.

1063
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 4: I also think the Kamala Harris campaign isn't like doing

1064
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,879
Speaker 4: incredible just the best campaigning you've ever seen that would

1065
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 4: turn the Titanic of public opinion on her around like this,

1066
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 4: because one of the benefits of that poll question is

1067
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 4: it's such a vibe snapshot. It reminds me of the

1068
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 4: polls about why Romney lost in twenty twelve.

1069
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 5: And then Trump won in twenty sixteen.

1070
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 4: People thought Obama cared more about people like them, People

1071
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 4: thought Trump cared more about people like them in.

1072
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:42,320
Speaker 5: Some of these key swing states.

1073
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 4: So those vibe pole questions are actually really important. And

1074
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 4: this one, I think, you know, the Harris campaign should

1075
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 4: be very cautious because I suspect that they will start

1076
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 4: to see numbers like this going down. On the other hand,

1077
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 4: the Trump campaign isn't you know, doing a slam dunk

1078
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 4: on making their argument right now either. So I think

1079
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 4: it's a little bit of both. But huge takeaway for me,

1080
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 4: and I know we're going to talk about Jendie Vance

1081
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 4: in just a second, is how powerfully this media honeymoon

1082
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 4: is shaping the vibes right now.

1083
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: The weird framing is landing. I mean that's what that

1084
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: poll shows, basically, like the Democratic frame is landing. And

1085
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: then Trump you brought this up earlier, Emily, this his

1086
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 1: fixation and concern that you know, this was a coup

1087
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: and she's illegitimate and this was you know, signaled by

1088
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: also the argument that she's a quote unquote DEI candidate

1089
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,359
Speaker 1: is not landing. You've got more people saying she earned

1090
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,240
Speaker 1: her position than Donald Trump, which is pretty incredible since

1091
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: he did have to go through a primary process and

1092
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,280
Speaker 1: she didn't. But it just you know, there's there's number one,

1093
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: it's not a hit that is just landing with the

1094
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 1: American who's not their top concern. They're glad that Biden

1095
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 1: stepped decide. And number two, there hasn't been any consistency

1096
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: of messaging coming from the Republican side, which makes it

1097
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 1: much more difficult for any of their attempted framing to

1098
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: really land. We were talking the weird thing is, you

1099
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: know JD. Vance really sort of propelled that framing of

1100
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: the Republican Party to the forefront. In fact, when Trump

1101
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: was asked about the weird framing at a donor event,

1102
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: he said he basically threw JD under the bus and

1103
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: was like, well, they're mostly saying that about JD. But

1104
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 1: there's some new focus group testing showing, you know that

1105
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign's attempts to define JD in context of

1106
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: his biography and his story and you know, his bootstrap

1107
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: story and the best selling biography and all of these

1108
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: things have really not been the thing that have caught

1109
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: on with the American public. The democratic framing has been

1110
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: much more potent in terms of how people are thinking

1111
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: about the JD.

1112
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 3: Vance pick.

1113
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: Let's put this up on the screen. Now, this is

1114
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 1: from a Democratic poster, so all the caveats are important here, Semaphore,

1115
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 1: wrote Hoffman Reid Hoffman backed poll of how people are

1116
00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: viewing JD.

1117
00:51:58,840 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 3: Vance.

1118
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: First of all, this is consistent across a number of polls.

1119
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: His net favorability has fallen from minus seven to minus eleven,

1120
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: and you have fewer voters unsure either way. That's why

1121
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: these early attempts at defining candids are so important, because

1122
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 1: once a particular view is locked in, it's much harder

1123
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: to change once you have your first impression versus if

1124
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: you're trying to shift down the road what you think

1125
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: of a candidate. You know, it's very difficult if people

1126
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: already think Hillary Clinton his crooked Hillary Clinton. Good luck

1127
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 1: trying to change that public perception.

1128
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 11: Right.

1129
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: So they asked respondence how they viewed Advance, and this

1130
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: is the semaphore write up. They say he's become more

1131
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: and more identified with his particular brand of conservatism and

1132
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: less with his fame biography as an author, veteran, and politician.

1133
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: Presented with a list of options to describe Vance in August,

1134
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,280
Speaker 1: the most common answers were conservative, anti woman, and weird.

1135
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: More positive options like young, smart and businessman declined from July,

1136
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: and the percentage calling him extreme shot up thirteen points.

1137
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 1: We could put this next piece up on the screen,

1138
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 1: highlighted by podsaves Tom Here, he says brutal new polling

1139
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: presented with a list of options describe Vance in August,

1140
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: the most common answers were conservative, anti woman.

1141
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:06,760
Speaker 3: And weird.

1142
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: They were also participants were very aware. They were most

1143
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 1: aware of the childless cat lady comments. Fifty percent of

1144
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: those surveyed said they had heard the remarks, and fifty

1145
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: five percent said that they were bothered by them. Scoring

1146
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: worse but less well known, was a twenty twenty one

1147
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: interview in which he defended a Texas abortion laws lack

1148
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: of exceptions for rape and incests by suggesting pregnancies from

1149
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: such circumstances are inconvenient. Sixty two percent of voter said

1150
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 1: they were bothered that Vance used the word inconvenient to

1151
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: describe pregnancies that stem from rape and incest, with fifty

1152
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 1: percent reporting it bothers me a lot. So that particular

1153
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 1: comment that he had made hasn't gotten as much traction

1154
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: and pick up. People were less aware of it, but

1155
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: they're actually more bothered by that than the childless cat

1156
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: lady comments, which they were also rather sort of bothered

1157
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: and offended by.

1158
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 4: And those with I mean, here's what just drives me crazy,

1159
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 4: and I'm on the right, so obviously everyone could take

1160
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 4: this with a grain of salt.

1161
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 5: But the coverage of Tim Walls has.

1162
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 4: Been I think he is like a fairly talented politician,

1163
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 4: but the coverage of him has been insane. I mean

1164
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 4: down to the like the type of llban barn jacket

1165
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,280
Speaker 4: that he's wearing, and there've been like twenty stories about

1166
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 4: his fashion choices. There have been, however, many stories about

1167
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 4: how Kamala Harris is captaigning on joy and how Tim

1168
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 4: Walls is bringing this folksy you know, accent to the ticket,

1169
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 4: whereas I think the only dose of cold water I

1170
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 4: have seen corporate media throw on anything to do with

1171
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 4: Tim waalts sincerely. Other than like, there's some of the

1172
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 4: stolen ballar questions that they've covered a bit, but other

1173
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 4: than that, he is the rural whisper. Except for this

1174
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 4: one segment that we talked about last week that Steve

1175
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 4: Cornaki did showing that Tim Wallas owed his victory to

1176
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 4: running up big margins to his credit in the Twin

1177
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 4: Cities and actually is not super well like outside of

1178
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 4: the Twin Cities and some of these rural counties. And

1179
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 4: it just the side by side of how the cat

1180
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 4: lady comment was bouncing around.

1181
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 5: It was like two years old.

1182
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 4: I thought it was wrong. I've talked about that. It

1183
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 4: bounced all over pop culture. It was, it just took off,

1184
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 4: and you just like I get that.

1185
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:19,399
Speaker 5: JD.

1186
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 4: Vance is absolutely a movement conservative like new right kind

1187
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 4: of guy. I think the people like us are weird. Like,

1188
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 4: don't get me wrong, I do think that's all weird.

1189
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 4: But at the same time, it's like, good lord. The

1190
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 4: juxtaposition of coverage here has been infuriating, and I think

1191
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 4: it does contribute to some of these these imbalances, and

1192
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 4: it just it's been watching the shifts has reinforced to

1193
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 4: me that these gatekeepers are still powerful. They've never been

1194
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 4: less powerful, but they're still powerful enough to make a

1195
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 4: difference in manipulating public opinion to some extent. That's not

1196
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 4: to excuse the errors that Republicans are making, because they

1197
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:57,360
Speaker 4: are making them, but.

1198
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, listen, there's there's no doubt like

1199
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: the MSNBC and CNNs of the world, they're liberal inclined, right,

1200
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 1: They're very pro democratic is now, there's no doubt about that.

1201
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 1: But also like Republicans know that going in, you know,

1202
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 1: so it's true, it's and it's not like Republicans have

1203
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: never been able to make their messages land about candidates.

1204
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: Before the entire country thought Joe Biden was really old,

1205
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: even though you know, even though the media for a

1206
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: while didn't really want to cover it or say anything

1207
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 1: about it, the public really thought Hillary Clinton was corrupt

1208
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: and crooked and you know, had real issues in terms

1209
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 1: of her sort of honesty. And that wasn't a narrative

1210
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: that the mainstream press wanted to push, but it was

1211
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: what people had observed. And let's not forget conservatives have

1212
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: their own very powerful media organs at this point too.

1213
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 1: I mean, Fox News much larger than CNN or MSNBC.

1214
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 3: So I don't know. I I'm sorry, Emily. I think

1215
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 3: it's cope because I think.

1216
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 4: Most Americans also thought thought Kamala Harris was kind of

1217
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,800
Speaker 4: a joke until the media started to cover Kamala Harris

1218
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 4: really powerfully and she replaced Joe Biden, which I understand.

1219
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 4: But I do feel like there's been an element of

1220
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 4: the media really rehabilitating her image successfully with some people,

1221
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 4: not with everybody.

1222
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 5: That's with some people, though.

1223
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 1: I think there's some fairness to that. But also I

1224
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: do I anticipated, and I think you did as well,

1225
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: that people would just be so happy to have another

1226
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: option that.

1227
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 3: There would be.

1228
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: You can't fake the level of enthusiasm that exists for her,

1229
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: like the media can't manufacture. If they could, they would

1230
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: have manufactured it for Hillary Clinton, you know, they would

1231
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: have manufactured it for Joe Biden and they couldn't. Yeah,

1232
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: so yes, they're getting a media assist. There's no doubt

1233
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: about it. There's any number of like glowing profiles and

1234
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: the conversations about the vibes and oh my god, who's

1235
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: behind her social media brilliance? And very few critical questions

1236
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: that I want to see asked about what is your

1237
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: policy right? Are you going to give in to the

1238
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 1: billionaire demands to fire Lenacon for example?

1239
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 3: What are you going to do on Israel? What are

1240
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 3: you going to do on Ukraine?

1241
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 1: I want to see those critical questions ask too. So

1242
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: I'm also very you know, I'm not happy with the

1243
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: way that the media has approached this, but I also

1244
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: don't think you can deny there's a genuine enthusiasm for her.

1245
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 1: There's a genuine enthusiasm for Tim Wallace, who is a

1246
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: very talented politician, does have a way of speaking that

1247
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: has worked for him politically, not just in terms of

1248
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: that gubernatorial race. But this is a guy who won

1249
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 1: a district that Trump won by I think twelve points.

1250
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,919
Speaker 1: He outperformed Hillary Clinton in a you know, pretty red

1251
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: district that has only been one in terms of the

1252
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 1: Democratic side, has only been won by him over the

1253
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: past number of decades.

1254
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 5: So I never performed Joe Biden though, which is interesting.

1255
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 3: He in twenty twenty. When are you talking about in

1256
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, ye perform job?

1257
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1258
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 5: Compared to it?

1259
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, So when he won his gubernatorial election, he

1260
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 4: was underperforming compared with Joe Biden.

1261
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 1: But when you look at his overall, you know, electoral

1262
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: track record, this is someone who does have a track

1263
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: record of appealing to voters that you know, politicians like

1264
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris has struggled with. All he has to do

1265
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: is help to return to the Joe Biden levels of

1266
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: like white rural.

1267
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 3: Working class support.

1268
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: It's not like anyone is expecting Democrats to win those groups. So,

1269
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 1: you know, if you look at the ticket right now,

1270
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: he is the most popular of all four. He is

1271
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: the most popular. He's plus like eleven in the state

1272
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania. And you don't get there by only appealing

1273
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: to the suburbs, so you know, as a media part

1274
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: of them, of course, of course. But you know, I've

1275
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 1: seen Republicans be very capable at driving a message in

1276
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: the past, and so far they just have not really

1277
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: landed on a consistent message that has worked to dg

1278
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: up either one of these And as you're pointed out

1279
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: with like the stolen valor quote unquote questions about Tim Wallas,

1280
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 1: it's not like when pressed they won't bring up some

1281
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: of these points and put Democrats in a difficult position

1282
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 1: have to answer for it. And I guess we'll wait

1283
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: and see what the polls say in a couple of

1284
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: weeks now that those attacks have a chance to sort

1285
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: of like you know, be processed by the broader electorate,

1286
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: whether that has been a successful line of attack to

1287
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 1: you know, dig him up and bring down some of

1288
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: his favorability ratings.

1289
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 4: And we forgot to mention actually one of the strangest

1290
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 4: moments in the spaces last night was Trump talking about tampons.

1291
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 5: Obviously tampon Tim, Yeah, tampon Tim.

1292
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 4: I think he said the line was something like, you

1293
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 4: know what, he puts tampons in boys bathoms.

1294
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 5: That's all I needed to know. Something like that that

1295
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 5: was yeoint, But yeah, I mean.

1296
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 3: There's not to be charges with that one.

1297
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 4: Talking about tampons with Elon Musk, Yeah, it doesn't doesn't help.

1298
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 5: Probably, all right.

1299
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: Let's talk some more policy because this was interesting. Jade

1300
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 1: Vance did a bunch of Sunday Show interviews and you know,

1301
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 1: really leaning into his role as the attack dog on

1302
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign. In fact, at this point he's way

1303
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: more out there invisible than even Trump is in terms

1304
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: of the number of interviews he's doing, and he's doing rallies.

1305
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 1: Trump is not doing rallies, but he's doing all these rallies.

1306
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 1: So it was really interesting to hear how he parried

1307
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 1: some of the attacks that were coming his way on

1308
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: childless cat ladies and on the overall ticket. But he

1309
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 1: made one significant policy pronouncement that he would like to

1310
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: see a larger child tax credit. Let's take a listen

1311
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: to what he had to say.

1312
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 12: It's called the child tax credit, and we should expand

1313
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 12: the child tax credit.

1314
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 11: If you think about what the child.

1315
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 3: Tax you had the Bido administration agree on the.

1316
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 5: Childcare tax credit, Well, we think it should be bigger.

1317
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 12: I think President Trump and I believe in expanded child

1318
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 12: tax credit, but we also importantly want to actually get

1319
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 12: this thing done. The child tax credit has languished thanks

1320
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 12: to the Biden administration because Harris has failed to show

1321
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 12: fundamental leadership. Chuck Schumer's have been unable to get it

1322
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 12: through the United States Senate. And we want to have

1323
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 12: a more pro family policy.

1324
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 6: Now.

1325
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 3: Now, there was you know that, and we weren't. We

1326
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 3: weren't there, but it was a messaging bill.

1327
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 5: I'll give you that.

1328
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 11: It was a show vote. I'm with you, and if

1329
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 11: I had been there, it would have failed.

1330
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 1: And I specifically what you want to do to expand

1331
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 1: the childcare tax credit because it's like two grand per

1332
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: kid right now.

1333
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 12: Well, I think one of the things you can do

1334
01:01:57,920 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 12: is make it bigger per child. I think we'd love

1335
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 12: to see at a higher dollar value. And again President

1336
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 12: Trump and I have proposed that. I mean, look, I'd

1337
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 12: love to see a child tax credit that's five thousand

1338
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 12: dollars per child, but you, of course have to work

1339
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 12: with Congress to see how possible and viable that is.

1340
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 12: We've also proposed legislation, Margaret, to end this practice of

1341
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 12: parents getting these surprise medical bills where they go to

1342
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 12: the hospital they have a baby, they chose an out

1343
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:21,920
Speaker 12: of network provider, and they come home with unexpected bills.

1344
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 12: I've actually sponsored legislation to end that practice. So we

1345
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 12: have a whole host of pro family policies that are

1346
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 12: out there.

1347
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 11: And again on the Harris administration, I got to push back.

1348
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 12: Against something a little bit, Margaret, because when these comments

1349
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 12: where I said parents should pay lower taxes via the

1350
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 12: child tax credit came out, the Harris administration immediately jumped

1351
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 12: and said we disagree with this. The Harris campaign said

1352
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 12: we disagree with this, so that they want the elimination

1353
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 12: of the child tax credit or were they just being

1354
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 12: careless and responding to remarks that I made three years ago.

1355
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 1: Emily, what did you make of these comments and their significance.

1356
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 4: I thought he did a really good job in that exchange.

1357
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 4: I thought he did, and that's another reason. Sorry not

1358
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 4: to bring it back to the media conversation, but I

1359
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 4: actually think jad Vance has been as there have been

1360
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 4: all of these conversations about how Trump might want to

1361
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 4: ditch him from the ticket and he's dragging everyone down.

1362
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 5: And his unfavorables are dipping.

1363
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 4: There's this other storyline that while that's happening, the Trump

1364
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 4: campaign is putting him on all the Sunday shows, and

1365
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 4: he's doing a fairly good job, which is an interesting

1366
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 4: I mean, it signals confidence and signals that the campaign

1367
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 4: still has confidence in Jadie Vance. And I don't know

1368
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,959
Speaker 4: if he can turn his own numbers around by being

1369
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 4: forward facing in the media like this, but I actually

1370
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 4: thought he handled that really well. One of the big

1371
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 4: overlying questions though, is whether there are enough Republicans who

1372
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 4: Donald Trump would surround himself with in the second Trump

1373
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 4: administration who go along with this. Now, the tax bill

1374
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 4: in this that passed through under the Trump administration did

1375
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 4: have a meaningful child tax credit in it because Marco

1376
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 4: Rubio and some other sort of new right guys pushed

1377
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 4: for it, but a lot of them wanted it to

1378
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 4: be bigger. And there's a huge question as to whether

1379
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 4: those kind of conservative movement folks we talked about earlier

1380
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 4: in the show actually who Donald Trump would surround himself with,

1381
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 4: are good with a five thousand dollars child tax credit,

1382
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 4: which is extremely generous. Another thing that's kicked around in

1383
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 4: the New right is free births. If you go to

1384
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 4: a hospital and give birth, you don't have a bill

1385
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 4: that is totally subsidized and covered by the government. These

1386
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 4: are ideas that I think are fantastic. They're easy to

1387
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 4: sell on shows like this, but are they viable with

1388
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 4: other Republicans. I still have huge questions about that.

1389
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean the recent voting history would suggest no.

1390
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: And also listen, Jade Vance can support whatever Ja d

1391
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: Vance wants to support. I've never heard Trump talk about

1392
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 1: a child tax credit. He had four hours or whatever

1393
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 1: with Elon Musk on X yesterday to talk about it,

1394
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: and it did not come up, at least unless it

1395
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:52,000
Speaker 1: was in the last ten minutes when I tapp down.

1396
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:53,439
Speaker 5: Now it wasn't. It wasn't.

1397
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 1: So you know, ultimately what Jadie Vance says on the

1398
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 1: topic is not all that important. And as I was

1399
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 1: just alluding to, you know, Democrats expand the child tax

1400
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: credit was expanded during the COVID crisis. Democrats wanted to

1401
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 1: extend it and it was blocked by Republicans and they

1402
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 1: just had a vote. Jady actually brought this up because

1403
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 1: he got pressed on a little bit. They just had

1404
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 1: a vote on expanding the child tax credit. He didn't

1405
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 1: show up for the vote. Okay, that's one thing that

1406
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: you can sort of like guess, okay, we don't know

1407
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: which way he would have voted, but it was overwhelmingly

1408
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 1: Republicans who blocked it. I think there were forty eight

1409
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 1: votes against it, and they were almost all Republicans. So

1410
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: you know, there's also not to get to Wonky in

1411
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 1: and the Weeds or in Casts, who we've obviously had

1412
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: on this show and who is one of sort of

1413
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 1: the leading thinkers in terms of this new direction. The

1414
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 1: Republican Party wrote up a post in response to Jad's

1415
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 1: Commentsary we could put this up on the screen on

1416
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 1: his substack newsletter, which is called Understanding America, I says

1417
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:52,959
Speaker 1: the one big thing from Jade Vance's Sunday show tour.

1418
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: There also is a difference between how Democrats want to

1419
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 1: approach a child tax credit versus how Republicans typically want

1420
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 1: to approach a child tax credit. Even something like Jadie Vance,

1421
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: who wants it to be relatively generous or in Casts

1422
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 1: who wants it to be relatively generous, they want to

1423
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 1: see a work requirement, so the very poorest families wouldn't benefit.

1424
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: And you know, to me that isn't pro family because

1425
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: you know, if you have a single mom, for example,

1426
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 1: you're really prioritizing her being in the workplace wherever that is,

1427
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: versus being able to be with her kids and raising

1428
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 1: her children. So, you know, I'm a universalist on all

1429
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: of these policies. That's why I support like Tim Walls's

1430
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 1: free lunch for all kids type of programs because I think,

1431
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 1: first of all, taking out all that bureaucratic you know

1432
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 1: means testeds neoliberal, actually stuff is beneficial to everyone, makes

1433
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 1: the programs much more simple, makes them much more beneficial

1434
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: in terms of the number of children you would lift

1435
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: on a poverty it's a massive difference, and also just

1436
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 1: makes it so the programs are more pops because everyone

1437
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 1: benefits from it, and there isn't this weird like you

1438
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 1: deserve it, you don't deserve it cliffs, cutoffs, et cetera.

1439
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 1: That again have been a really typical feature of the

1440
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 1: new liberal era.

1441
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 4: And I think this is a really helpful discussion actually,

1442
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 4: because not only are those the fundamental disagreements between people

1443
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 4: who support a child tax credit like you and me,

1444
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 4: they're also the fundamental disagreements between Republicans.

1445
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 5: And so the big.

1446
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:27,919
Speaker 4: Backlash to the Biden increase was over some of those

1447
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 4: like you say those new liberal I think it's fair

1448
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 4: to call them half measures that Honestly, I have a

1449
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 4: hard time conceiving of supporting a child tax credit without

1450
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 4: some of that, and so do most Republicans. And from

1451
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 4: my perspective, it's not the same reason as you know

1452
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:45,919
Speaker 4: why a lot of Republicans want to do it, which

1453
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 4: is because they're stingy with our own tax payer money.

1454
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 4: It's more just because I think that's important a family formation,

1455
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 4: and Orren would agree with this too. It was one

1456
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 4: of the big divides between when Mitt Romney came out

1457
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 4: with a child tax credit plan and Marco Ubio.

1458
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 5: Marco Rubio and.

1459
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:04,479
Speaker 4: Ted Cruz at the time jumped on the Romney plan,

1460
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 4: and this became a historic dust up in the brief

1461
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 4: history of the New Right, was over this very question

1462
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 4: whether Republicans were going to move towards that universalist, populist,

1463
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:23,679
Speaker 4: genuinely populist economic policies away from saying we do also

1464
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 4: ideologically believe that there's something anti family about sort of

1465
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 4: creating systems of dependency, which I know you and I

1466
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 4: disagree with. Priscilla, I disagree on and I think I

1467
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 4: probably disagree with you. Ryan Ansager on that question. But

1468
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 4: so do Republicans now disagree with each other on that

1469
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 4: and even the new right people who have gone to

1470
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 4: bat for the child tax credit like Mark Rubio did

1471
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 4: back in twenty seventeen, even they can't get on board

1472
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:56,080
Speaker 4: with super mainstream democratic policies. They are absolutely popular, no

1473
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 4: question about it, on the child tax credit. So it's

1474
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 4: actually a pretty interesting clash ideologically and for the future

1475
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 4: of both parties.

1476
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's go ahead and talk a little bit

1477
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 1: about how the politics of this could play out.

1478
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 3: Let's get ahead, guys, to this SoundBite. We have B

1479
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 3: three B. He gets Jade.

1480
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 1: Gets asked about, you know, as child was cat ladies'

1481
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:21,599
Speaker 1: comments and specifically about, Hey, Kamala Harris is a stepmom

1482
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 1: like Pete Boodhagidge has adopted kids. Do not consider them

1483
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 1: to be parents. And let's just take a listen to,

1484
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: you know, how he perries those attacks and how he

1485
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 1: describes what he was trying to say with those comments.

1486
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 9: You called out Kamala Harris and Pete Bootagidge in particular,

1487
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:40,680
Speaker 9: Kamala Harris has two step children. Pete Bootagidge and his

1488
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 9: husband have adopted twins. Do you recognize them? As parents

1489
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 9: and more broadly, as being part of families.

1490
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:49,640
Speaker 11: Well, of course I do, Dana. I mean, you know

1491
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,879
Speaker 11: my life story. I was actually raised. I was raised,

1492
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 11: but Dana, I was raised.

1493
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:56,639
Speaker 12: One of the first people that I gave a hug

1494
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 12: to after my my RNC convention speech was my step mom,

1495
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 12: who's been an incredibly important person in my life. My kids,

1496
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 12: my kids call her mamma. Of course she's not childless.

1497
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,599
Speaker 12: But again the criticism, I certainly not call.

1498
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:09,360
Speaker 11: My own step no.

1499
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 5: Kamala Harris.

1500
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 12: I criticized Kamala Harris for being part of a set

1501
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 12: of ideas that exists in American leadership that is anti family.

1502
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:21,679
Speaker 12: I never Dan, I criticize people for not having kids.

1503
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 12: I criticize people for being anti child And I do

1504
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 12: think that Kamala.

1505
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 11: Harris said bizarre statement.

1506
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 12: She has said things like it's reasonable not to have

1507
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 12: children over climate change. I think it's the exact opposite

1508
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:36,680
Speaker 12: message we should be sending to our young families. I

1509
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 12: want to expand the child tax credit. I want to

1510
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:41,759
Speaker 12: stop those surprise medical bills. I want to make housing

1511
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,720
Speaker 12: more affordable, so if you have a young family, you

1512
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:45,600
Speaker 12: can actually afford to put them in a home, and

1513
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 12: I think that it is unfortunate that so much of

1514
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:49,839
Speaker 12: our public leadership has become anti family.

1515
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: So I think I think he does the best there

1516
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 1: with you know what he can given the nature of

1517
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:58,599
Speaker 1: comments where I mean you very clearly said like Kamala Harris,

1518
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 1: Pete Boddages, these are you know, childless cat ladies that

1519
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:04,720
Speaker 1: are running our country, et cetera, et cetera. But so

1520
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:08,759
Speaker 1: I sort of feel about this framing of the election

1521
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 1: in the contest the same way I feel about Democrats

1522
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: leaning into an immigration issue. If this election is about immigration,

1523
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 1: Democrats are losing, Like no matter how good their rebuttal is, etc.

1524
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:22,599
Speaker 1: If that comes down to that's the number one issue

1525
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 1: people are concerned about, chaos or the butt like it's over.

1526
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 1: It's not happening, right because you're you're never going to

1527
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: overcome Republicans natural advantage on this issue.

1528
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 3: I think it's the same.

1529
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 1: I think this is very poor ground for Republicans to

1530
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:37,160
Speaker 1: fight on. I recognize it's not exactly what they chose,

1531
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 1: it's these comments were unearthed, et cetera, et cetera. Now

1532
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,560
Speaker 1: JD's trying to grapple with them and make them more palatable.

1533
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:46,799
Speaker 1: He was using the language of effectively like a niche

1534
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 1: online subculture that is very popular and very commonplace in

1535
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 1: that subculture and sounds horrible to the rest of the public,

1536
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 1: and takes issues like a child tax credit that are

1537
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 1: you pull that it's a seventy percent issue and it

1538
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:03,599
Speaker 1: sound like something that is radical, fringe, weird, like out

1539
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 1: of step with mainstream America, et cetera.

1540
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:07,639
Speaker 3: It's the worst possible messaging you could possibly have, right,

1541
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 3: But if you.

1542
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,920
Speaker 1: Pull Americans on who has better like pro family and

1543
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,799
Speaker 1: pro child policies, I have zero doubt that Kamala Harris

1544
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:18,679
Speaker 1: comes out wildly on top of that conversation, and having

1545
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:20,799
Speaker 1: Tim Walls on the ticket only helps with that because

1546
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: you know, he did paid family leave, paid work lee,

1547
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 1: he did a child tax credit in the state. He did,

1548
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, a community school for people who are under

1549
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 1: eighty thousand dollars a year. He did the free lunch

1550
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 1: for all kids. And so to me, this is a

1551
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 1: very this is very difficult ground for Republicans to fight

1552
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 1: on because not only do Democrats just have a sort

1553
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 1: of natural advantage, and you have the salient culture war

1554
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:47,600
Speaker 1: issue of like you know, jd Vance voted against I

1555
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:50,920
Speaker 1: protecting IVF in the Senate, and that's become very salient

1556
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:54,920
Speaker 1: as well. But you also have even Republicans like him

1557
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 1: a little hamstrung in terms of how much they can

1558
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:01,600
Speaker 1: say about this without their policies just sounding like Democratic policies,

1559
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,680
Speaker 1: which again are popular. But who are you going to

1560
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:07,360
Speaker 1: trust more to do a child tax credit? Are you

1561
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,760
Speaker 1: going to trust Donald Trump, who when he was an

1562
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:13,439
Speaker 1: off you know, and the Republicans who typically vote against

1563
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 1: these things and block the child tax creditor? Are you

1564
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 1: going to trust Kamala Harris and Tim Walls, who have

1565
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: consistently supported it.

1566
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:25,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think actually there's no question defending the

1567
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 4: childless cat ladies comment is going to play like it

1568
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 4: is not a politically wise strategy.

1569
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 5: It's obviously not one that they had.

1570
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 4: An option, like, they weren't choosing to lean into the

1571
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 4: childless cat ladies thing. They still aren't. He's just kind

1572
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:41,600
Speaker 4: of responding defensively to questions. But that is not a

1573
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:44,040
Speaker 4: good position to be in for all of the reasons

1574
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 4: that you just listed. That said, I think ideologically, not

1575
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 4: politically in the long term, it is a it is

1576
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 4: a question, you know, some of the things that Kamala

1577
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 4: Harris has said that Jade Vance tried to raise there

1578
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:58,440
Speaker 4: about talking about children.

1579
01:13:58,200 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 5: And climate change.

1580
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 4: I remember the RNC before the Dems rolled out this

1581
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:08,200
Speaker 4: weird messaging line around the childless cat ladies uproar. Republicans

1582
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 4: were trying to make this the election of weird versus normal,

1583
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 4: and that It's been so interesting to hear that shift

1584
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 4: because this is one of the reasons that Republicans kind

1585
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:20,559
Speaker 4: of wanted to lean into that message. And I've heard Honestly,

1586
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 4: I've talked to Marian Williamson about this. I remember I

1587
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 4: talked to her on a podcast about this a couple

1588
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:28,400
Speaker 4: of years ago. It is a real fear that serious

1589
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,360
Speaker 4: people on the left half that, you know, why are

1590
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:33,719
Speaker 4: young people not wanting to have children? Why are they

1591
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 4: talking in ways that you sometimes hear, not from everybody,

1592
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:39,600
Speaker 4: but you sometimes hear from people on the left that

1593
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 4: just makes it sound miserable to be a wife or

1594
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:43,760
Speaker 4: a mother and.

1595
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 5: Almost demonizing it.

1596
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 4: Sometimes not everybody, again, but I do think ideologically, if

1597
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:51,080
Speaker 4: not politically.

1598
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:52,480
Speaker 5: There is something serious.

1599
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,560
Speaker 4: It's just when you try to take niche podcast conversations

1600
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 4: and then turn them into a presidential ticket, it's not.

1601
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 1: Going to go, well, that's and I think that's you know,

1602
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 1: that's part of what they're struggling with, you know, just

1603
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:07,080
Speaker 1: a last piece here, you know, to to not leave

1604
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:10,839
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris unscathed, Like, we don't have a policy agenda

1605
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 1: from her, right, we don't know what she Now. You

1606
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:15,800
Speaker 1: may say, Okay, she just jumped into this thing, and

1607
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:17,919
Speaker 1: you can just kind of assume she's going to continue

1608
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 1: what Biden was doing more or less. That's probably a

1609
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 1: decent assumption. But there are some specific issues where it'd

1610
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:26,479
Speaker 1: be really good to know. And there was a piece

1611
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 1: that came out actually that said a bunch of these

1612
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 1: democratic consultant types are saying effectively like say as little

1613
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 1: as you can, because the more that you get nailed

1614
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 1: down on an issue, the more devices device of it becomes.

1615
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 1: You know, then you are litigating the details of this

1616
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 1: or that plan, et cetera, and that can create democratic

1617
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:45,519
Speaker 1: party rips. So just go with the vibes, go with

1618
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:48,640
Speaker 1: the general values, rather than actually being upfront with the

1619
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 1: American people about what your policy plans and ideas are.

1620
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:53,719
Speaker 1: I think that that's outrageous. I don't think the media

1621
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:56,719
Speaker 1: should let her get away with that. But we did get.

1622
01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:59,400
Speaker 1: You know, we got an indication from Tim Walls, who

1623
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,840
Speaker 1: has a try record of very different from most Democrats

1624
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 1: of when he had power actually using it, you know,

1625
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:09,000
Speaker 1: total counter to most Democrats in Washington. When they have power,

1626
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 1: they find every excuse not to do the things that

1627
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 1: they claim that they support. And he expressed a very

1628
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:18,559
Speaker 1: definitive opinion about what they should lead their policy agenda with.

1629
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:19,680
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to that.

1630
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 13: I think one of the things is that people really

1631
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:24,519
Speaker 13: see because it empowers their family. At Joseph, I think

1632
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 13: the paid family and medical lead where the last nation

1633
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 13: on earth basically to not do this. It is so

1634
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 13: foundational to just basic decency and financial well being. I

1635
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 13: think we should do paid family medical leave across the country,

1636
01:16:37,439 --> 01:16:39,760
Speaker 13: and I think that would start to change both Finance's

1637
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:42,800
Speaker 13: attitude strengthen him. This is one if jd. Aanswers right

1638
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 13: about this, that we should make it easier for families

1639
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,719
Speaker 13: to be together. Then make sure that after your child's

1640
01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 13: born that you can spend a little time with them.

1641
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:50,000
Speaker 13: That'd be a great thing.

1642
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 1: I do think if they just picked a few of

1643
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 1: these like bread and butter are like really popular issues

1644
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:58,000
Speaker 1: and just relentlessly message and lean into them. I think

1645
01:16:58,000 --> 01:16:59,160
Speaker 1: it will be very potent for.

1646
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:02,599
Speaker 4: Them agree completely. I think Tim Wallis is really good

1647
01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:04,519
Speaker 4: at that. I have long thought Tim Walls is really

1648
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:06,000
Speaker 4: good at that. And Ryan and I talked about this

1649
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,599
Speaker 4: last week. But there's the Reagan line of bold colors

1650
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:11,640
Speaker 4: not pale pastels, which is that you can be principled

1651
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 4: and sell your principles politically, even if they're not super

1652
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 4: popular with a broad swap of the public. You can

1653
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 4: actually make a more persuasive case by saying, listen, I

1654
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,800
Speaker 4: actually really believe in this stuff, and I think you're

1655
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 4: gonna like it.

1656
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:25,519
Speaker 5: And I was elected and I'm going to do it.

1657
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:28,520
Speaker 4: I'm going to pass this stuff through the duly elected legislature.

1658
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:30,760
Speaker 5: I don't like Tim Walls. I don't agree with a

1659
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:31,639
Speaker 5: lot of his policies.

1660
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:34,200
Speaker 4: I think some of his stuff is going to undercut

1661
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 4: some of his culture stuff is going to undercut some

1662
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:38,599
Speaker 4: of this populous stuff when he's trying to sell himself

1663
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 4: to the public. But serious credit to being a Democrat

1664
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:45,760
Speaker 4: who believes in the bold colors not pale pastels. I

1665
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:49,439
Speaker 4: think argument because that's where you find politicians that are

1666
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 4: both principled and smart politicians, and that's a rare combination,

1667
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:56,120
Speaker 4: and I think he does understand that.

1668
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:03,520
Speaker 1: Let's gotten onto this story that went viral from the Olympics,

1669
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:05,760
Speaker 1: which really caught my attention, and put this up on

1670
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 1: the screen.

1671
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:07,720
Speaker 3: So, if you're an Olympic.

1672
01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:11,360
Speaker 1: Athlete, you actually get access to all kinds of healthcare services.

1673
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 1: And some of these athletes made great use of that

1674
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:18,680
Speaker 1: because number one, you know, even a lot of the

1675
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 1: medal winners in sports that are less popular, that aren't

1676
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:24,599
Speaker 1: the main line, you know, basketball, etc.

1677
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:27,719
Speaker 3: They don't earn a lot of money.

1678
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 1: I mean, these are incredibly high level, exceptional athletes, but

1679
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:34,680
Speaker 1: they may not have the money to afford healthcare in

1680
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:36,680
Speaker 1: the United States of America. And so you have this

1681
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:40,200
Speaker 1: headline here that American and athletes were radicalized by free

1682
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:44,760
Speaker 1: healthcare available to them at the Olympics. And in particular,

1683
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:48,640
Speaker 1: you had a rugby player, I believe, who realized that

1684
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:50,759
Speaker 1: she could go and get like all of her appointments

1685
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:53,240
Speaker 1: and whatever, and was shocked to find that there was

1686
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:55,799
Speaker 1: no cost to her whatsoever. And she started making tiktoks

1687
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:57,800
Speaker 1: about this that went viral. Let's take a listen to.

1688
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 14: That, Okay, y'all so not only in the village do

1689
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 14: we have free food, but we have free dental, free healthcare.

1690
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 14: I literally just got a Papchmere for free, and I

1691
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:12,679
Speaker 14: have a densit's appointment and I exam next week.

1692
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 1: Like what and Emily, like we're the only developed country

1693
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:19,559
Speaker 1: in the world that doesn't have free healthcare. There were

1694
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 1: all kinds of comments about basically like oh, Americans discover healthcare,

1695
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:28,280
Speaker 1: but you know, it's a national embarrassment that our top

1696
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:31,400
Speaker 1: elite athletes who are going here to represent our country

1697
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:35,360
Speaker 1: don't have access to like a basic gynecological exam and

1698
01:19:35,439 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 1: a PAPS mirror back of the United States of America.

1699
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 4: So again like this is the biggest handicap in the

1700
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:45,280
Speaker 4: world for Republicans, and they legitimately have no idea, Like

1701
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:47,559
Speaker 4: elected Republicans in Washington, DC have.

1702
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 5: Absolutely no idea.

1703
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 4: How seriously this issue is weighing on the minds of voters,

1704
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 4: how heavily it's weighing on the minds of voters. And

1705
01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:57,720
Speaker 4: you can see it by the fact that they even

1706
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 4: made these videos, like the Olympians made these videos because

1707
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:04,839
Speaker 4: it struck them immediately. And Democrats you see the Harris campaign,

1708
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:07,639
Speaker 4: you see Tim Walls starting to talk a lot about

1709
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 4: freaking healthcare. How came Jeffries is coaching his candidates to

1710
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:16,840
Speaker 4: talk about healthcare. Republicans have no answer to this, and

1711
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 4: they are the ones then, because they have no answer

1712
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:22,640
Speaker 4: to this that'll end up looking like the supporters of

1713
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:26,559
Speaker 4: our legitimately cruel current system. Basically, everybody agrees that our

1714
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:29,719
Speaker 4: current system absolutely sucks and is a disgrace, and because

1715
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 4: Republicans have nothing to offer, they're the ones that look

1716
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:37,120
Speaker 4: like they own the system that these Olympians are going

1717
01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:39,559
Speaker 4: viral for being like, man, this is so much better

1718
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:42,080
Speaker 4: than what we have. Well, Republicans are the defenders of

1719
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:44,320
Speaker 4: the status quo on healthcare just by default.

1720
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:47,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that is true, just by default. But I mean,

1721
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:48,880
Speaker 1: I don't want to let Democrats off the hook here.

1722
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 1: Joe Biden claimed in his presidential campaign that he was

1723
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:54,519
Speaker 1: going to fight for a public option, and then the

1724
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,320
Speaker 1: minute he even got the Democratic nomination, he stopped talking

1725
01:20:57,360 --> 01:20:57,680
Speaker 1: about it.

1726
01:20:57,720 --> 01:20:59,240
Speaker 3: And obviously even in.

1727
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 1: The midst of you know, there were some changes attempted

1728
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:07,200
Speaker 1: changes to healthcare, expanding Medicare in particular to include dental

1729
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:10,479
Speaker 1: and vision and ears as if your ears in your

1730
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:12,800
Speaker 1: eyes and your mouth aren't part of your body, but

1731
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:15,200
Speaker 1: expanding medicare to include those things. There was a push

1732
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:17,559
Speaker 1: for that, but it wasn't ultimately successful. There also has

1733
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:21,760
Speaker 1: been some success, limited very limited success in terms of

1734
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:25,040
Speaker 1: bringing down prescription drug prices and specifically in the case

1735
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:28,759
Speaker 1: of insulin, but any of the broader sweeping changes Democrats

1736
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:31,400
Speaker 1: have just sort of given up on as too difficult,

1737
01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:34,720
Speaker 1: as too much intra party friction in terms of what

1738
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:38,920
Speaker 1: the right solution is. And so Kamala Harris, in terms

1739
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:41,519
Speaker 1: of her rhetoric on this campaign trail, has just been

1740
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 1: about like Republicans are going to get rid of the

1741
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:47,640
Speaker 1: Affordable Care Act. Now, Trump tried to do that, so

1742
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:49,719
Speaker 1: she had some grounds to say that he did attempt

1743
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:52,439
Speaker 1: to do that in his first term, But you know,

1744
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 1: is that going to be another push that he makes.

1745
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:54,599
Speaker 3: I don't think.

1746
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 1: I don't hear Republicans talking about health care at this

1747
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:58,639
Speaker 1: point at all. They've just also been happy to sort

1748
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 1: of let the matter drop. And meanwhile, this continues to

1749
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:04,280
Speaker 1: be if you're thinking about, you know, families, if you're

1750
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:08,679
Speaker 1: thinking about working class, middle class people, just a basic

1751
01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:12,360
Speaker 1: quality of life issue, this continues to be a massive

1752
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:17,120
Speaker 1: pain point that both parties find it too difficult or

1753
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 1: too inconvenient politically to try to address, not to mention

1754
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:27,080
Speaker 1: the massive array of moneyed interest who benefit, who get

1755
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 1: unbelievably rich off of the current system, who are very

1756
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 1: happy to have any conversation about reform completely buried.

1757
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 4: And who got really rich and benefited a lot from

1758
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:41,640
Speaker 4: the Obamacare system. And Matt Stoler has written about this,

1759
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 4: Our friend Massaller has written about this, and his research

1760
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 4: and writing here is excellent. And I think that's really

1761
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 4: important too, because it creates vulnerabilities for Democrats. But it

1762
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:51,559
Speaker 4: just shows, you know, we talk about the uniparty a

1763
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:54,559
Speaker 4: lot in the context of foreign policy, but when interests

1764
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:58,240
Speaker 4: are so tangled on lucrative issues like this, you end

1765
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 4: up with stasis. You never get anything done. Because healthcare

1766
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:04,360
Speaker 4: is legitimately a very complicated issue. There's a lot of

1767
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:06,720
Speaker 4: money to be made on it, and so that is

1768
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:11,120
Speaker 4: a recipe for absolutely nothing ever changing. And even the

1769
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:14,280
Speaker 4: Affordable Care Act, which was supposed to be this radical, sweeping.

1770
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:17,080
Speaker 5: Change, it's been incremental at best.

1771
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:20,519
Speaker 4: It's changed the system in some ways for the better,

1772
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:23,200
Speaker 4: but in some ways for the worse, and in some

1773
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 4: ways just really not much change at all. So it's

1774
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:31,080
Speaker 4: so depressing to think about how we are. Probably I

1775
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:32,720
Speaker 4: don't know, Chrystal, I feel like we're never going to

1776
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:34,160
Speaker 4: get out of this mess. I just don't see a

1777
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:36,240
Speaker 4: light at the end of the healthcare tunnel, which really

1778
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:40,680
Speaker 4: sucks for normal people because it's extremely expensive and we're

1779
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:43,320
Speaker 4: lucky we still have a high quality care in the US,

1780
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:46,200
Speaker 4: but I'm not optimistic that we stay at that level.

1781
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with all of that. I mean, on Obamacare,

1782
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:54,000
Speaker 1: I think it's undeniably better than the disastrous system we

1783
01:23:54,040 --> 01:23:56,000
Speaker 1: had before, just in terms of, you know, you can

1784
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:58,400
Speaker 1: no longer be denied for preconditions and some of those

1785
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 1: systemic changes that were made.

1786
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:03,240
Speaker 3: But it was designed to be.

1787
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 1: Good for the health insurers so that they wouldn't stand

1788
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:09,639
Speaker 1: in the way, and that was always going to really

1789
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:11,680
Speaker 1: curtail how much you could do with it.

1790
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:12,439
Speaker 3: You know. It's interesting.

1791
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi, I think, talked recently about how she still

1792
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:17,160
Speaker 1: regrets not being able to get a public option at

1793
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 1: least into Obamacare, and it's certainly not a major push,

1794
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:25,719
Speaker 1: and then that means that the sailings of the issue

1795
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:28,000
Speaker 1: too in terms of people's focus and what they're voting

1796
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:30,639
Speaker 1: on also drops, because that's the only thing that would

1797
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:34,599
Speaker 1: really change this at this point is a massive national

1798
01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 1: backlash that could overcome those powerful interests. All right, Emily,

1799
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 1: and know we have to say goodbye to you a

1800
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:42,760
Speaker 1: little bit early. Thank you so much for filling in

1801
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:45,360
Speaker 1: for soccer today. It's always fun debating these issues with you.

1802
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, and thanks for letting me do it.

1803
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 4: Remotely, I have something to tape here, so it just

1804
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:53,559
Speaker 4: worked out that way. But Sager is so rarely takes

1805
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:55,880
Speaker 4: a sick day, so you know, it's serious with him,

1806
01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:58,479
Speaker 4: and we hope he feels better and rests up because

1807
01:24:58,479 --> 01:24:59,760
Speaker 4: we all have a big week in front of us

1808
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:01,400
Speaker 4: with the and Stay coming up in a few days.

1809
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:03,760
Speaker 1: That's right, It's going to be big, and we will

1810
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:06,240
Speaker 1: see you and Ryan for counterpoints tomorrow. So we are

1811
01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:09,479
Speaker 1: still awaiting that potential Iranian response to the Israeli provocation.

1812
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 1: Of course, the assassinated top hamas leader on Iranian soil

1813
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:17,479
Speaker 1: the day before Irani's president inauguration, and there's a lot

1814
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:19,560
Speaker 1: to sort through here, so I brought an expert to

1815
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:22,679
Speaker 1: help us understand what is happening with regards to Iran. Also,

1816
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:25,320
Speaker 1: what is happening domestically with regards to Israel. Also, what

1817
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:27,559
Speaker 1: is happening with regards to Kamala Harris and how she

1818
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:31,879
Speaker 1: may approach this conflict. Omar Badaar Palaestinai, American political analyst

1819
01:25:31,920 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 1: and great friend of the show.

1820
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:35,000
Speaker 7: Great to see you, sir, Absolutely great to be with you, Crystal.

1821
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:36,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's start with this.

1822
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:39,479
Speaker 1: The US military rushing all kinds of assets into the

1823
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:43,160
Speaker 1: region in anticipation of this Iranian response. In fact, yesterday

1824
01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:46,040
Speaker 1: everybody was on pins and needles thinking that the response

1825
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:49,839
Speaker 1: was incredibly imminent. You had a lot of American soldiers

1826
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:53,600
Speaker 1: who were deeply concerned about potential attacks on American military

1827
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:54,799
Speaker 1: basis in the region.

1828
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:55,959
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

1829
01:25:55,760 --> 01:25:58,960
Speaker 1: To this Fox News clip setting up what assets are

1830
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:01,240
Speaker 1: moving into that right now.

1831
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:06,479
Speaker 15: Israel putting their military on Hiler once again, as Israeli

1832
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:11,000
Speaker 15: intelligence is picking up signals that Iran and one of

1833
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:14,720
Speaker 15: their terror proxies has the law are now poised to

1834
01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:19,879
Speaker 15: attack at any moment. Really, the Pentagon is now racing

1835
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:24,360
Speaker 15: to send more firepower to the Middle Eites to defend

1836
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:28,800
Speaker 15: Israel and our assets and bases in the region. So

1837
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 15: they have sent a submarine that is loaded with a

1838
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:34,920
Speaker 15: reporting one hundred and fifty cruise missiles, as well as

1839
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:38,120
Speaker 15: speeding up now the arrival of the USS Abraham Lincoln

1840
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:43,320
Speaker 15: Carrier Stripe Group, which is now near China but is

1841
01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:46,960
Speaker 15: heading quickly to the region, and that adds to the

1842
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 15: wide range of American force that is already there.

1843
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 1: In addition, let's go and put D two up on

1844
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:55,000
Speaker 1: the screen. The White House is saying that they agree

1845
01:26:55,160 --> 01:26:58,760
Speaker 1: with the Israeli intelligence that is increasingly likely Iran will

1846
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:01,880
Speaker 1: attack Israel this week. Put the next one up on

1847
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:04,759
Speaker 1: the screen. We also have indications Ron has taken quote

1848
01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:08,719
Speaker 1: significant preparatory steps in its missile and drone units, similar

1849
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:11,200
Speaker 1: to those that had taken before the attack on Israel

1850
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:15,160
Speaker 1: in April. Israel and US officials tell Barack Revi. They stress, however,

1851
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 1: that Israel and the US do not know the exact

1852
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 1: timing of the attack. So Omar, if you could just

1853
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,280
Speaker 1: react to sort of where we are and what is

1854
01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:23,520
Speaker 1: expected at this point.

1855
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:25,720
Speaker 16: Sure, and honestly, just a part of what you said

1856
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 16: in the setup I think is really important to emphasize,

1857
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:30,960
Speaker 16: which is that this all started with that assassination in

1858
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:34,479
Speaker 16: the Iranian capital, and you can imagine if another country

1859
01:27:34,479 --> 01:27:36,479
Speaker 16: had set up a bomb in Washington, d C. What

1860
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 16: the American reaction would be. We would instantly be bombing

1861
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:42,599
Speaker 16: whatever country is responsible, and the same for any European capital,

1862
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:45,320
Speaker 16: the same for Israel. Also, you constantly have the US

1863
01:27:45,320 --> 01:27:48,240
Speaker 16: officials saying things like, well, Israel has to respond to this,

1864
01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:49,800
Speaker 16: There's no way they can let something like that go.

1865
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:52,479
Speaker 16: And here you have a situation in which the Iranian

1866
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:55,800
Speaker 16: capital is hit and the Liberty's capital is hit by

1867
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:59,400
Speaker 16: a missile, and rather than a super targeted assassination that

1868
01:27:59,439 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 16: take somebody out out in a car or in a

1869
01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:04,320
Speaker 16: military base, they bombed a civilian building in Beirut and

1870
01:28:04,360 --> 01:28:07,200
Speaker 16: they killed multiple women and children in the process. And

1871
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:09,519
Speaker 16: yet you have everybody right now talking about and you

1872
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:11,760
Speaker 16: saw it in a statement that Biden also put out

1873
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:14,920
Speaker 16: with some European allies talking about the need to defend

1874
01:28:15,080 --> 01:28:18,439
Speaker 16: Israel from Iranian aggression. I mean, the entire thing is

1875
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 16: backwards and it's insulting to the intelligence of anybody who's.

1876
01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:22,080
Speaker 7: Actually paying attention.

1877
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:25,599
Speaker 16: So what the US position right now, what they are defending,

1878
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:29,960
Speaker 16: is a situation in which there is different rules for

1879
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:32,680
Speaker 16: different people. We say, if this were to happen to us,

1880
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:34,800
Speaker 16: we have to respond. If it happens to Israel, Israel

1881
01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 16: has to respond. But when it happens to Iran or

1882
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:38,880
Speaker 16: to Lebanon, then you need to take it. And if

1883
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 16: you do react to that, then that's an active aggression

1884
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:44,040
Speaker 16: that we have to stand up against. And that really

1885
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:46,639
Speaker 16: is such a microcosm of American policy in the region

1886
01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:50,040
Speaker 16: at large, of the fact that we don't value life equally,

1887
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:53,439
Speaker 16: we don't value sovereignty equally. We constantly treat Israel like

1888
01:28:53,439 --> 01:28:55,320
Speaker 16: a country that is above the rules and above the law,

1889
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:57,760
Speaker 16: and that is why we have this conflict that we're in.

1890
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:01,519
Speaker 16: You can diffuse all of it simply by insisting that

1891
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:04,599
Speaker 16: Israel behave within the bounds of international law, respect human rights.

1892
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:06,880
Speaker 16: And in this case and the genocide in Gaza, the

1893
01:29:06,920 --> 01:29:09,680
Speaker 16: solution is so simple that you simply need a ceasefire

1894
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:12,040
Speaker 16: for this onslaught that has lasted for nearly a year.

1895
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:15,559
Speaker 16: And yet instead we're seeing this rush towards further militarism

1896
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 16: and confrontation, all in defense of an order in which

1897
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:20,519
Speaker 16: we and our friends get to do whatever the hell

1898
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 16: we want to and nobody else gets to.

1899
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 7: Object to it.

1900
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:25,360
Speaker 1: And I think it's important to remember too, you know,

1901
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:27,920
Speaker 1: we have a number of soldiers who are stationed in

1902
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:29,839
Speaker 1: the region who are very much.

1903
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:32,240
Speaker 3: Put at risk by these provocations.

1904
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:34,800
Speaker 1: And yes, last time around, you know, the US rush

1905
01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:37,360
Speaker 1: to Israel's rescue and was able to repel, and I

1906
01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:41,519
Speaker 1: think it seems there was some back channel coordination even

1907
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:43,519
Speaker 1: with the Iranians, to make sure that that would be

1908
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 1: the end result. There's no guarantees of that this time around.

1909
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:49,600
Speaker 1: And so not only is it obviously grave danger for

1910
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:53,439
Speaker 1: our soldiers stationed in the region, but grave danger for

1911
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:56,439
Speaker 1: the potential escalation that we could see apism. I mean,

1912
01:29:56,520 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 1: let's be clear, this has never been a conflict that

1913
01:29:58,560 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 1: has stayed within the borders of.

1914
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:01,040
Speaker 3: Gaza and Israel.

1915
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:05,880
Speaker 1: However, you could have a much bigger and much even

1916
01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 1: more deadly and destructive war than what we've already seen.

1917
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:11,240
Speaker 16: It's honestly difficult to put into words how significant it

1918
01:30:11,240 --> 01:30:13,439
Speaker 16: would be. I think Americans have a memory of what

1919
01:30:13,439 --> 01:30:15,400
Speaker 16: a war in Afghanistan look like, what a war in

1920
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:18,240
Speaker 16: Iraq looked like, and frankly, a full scale war with

1921
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:20,479
Speaker 16: the Iran would be fundamentally different. It is far more

1922
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:23,439
Speaker 16: destructive and devastating than anything that we've seen, simply because

1923
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:26,080
Speaker 16: Iran and its allies in the region have such a

1924
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:29,439
Speaker 16: massive capacity for launching rockets that can target just about

1925
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:31,720
Speaker 16: any spot in the region. You can think of any

1926
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:34,400
Speaker 16: part of Israel, all American military bases in the region,

1927
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:36,960
Speaker 16: the major cities of other countries that are allied with

1928
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:40,280
Speaker 16: the US. If this thing blows up, it really it

1929
01:30:40,320 --> 01:30:42,919
Speaker 16: could lead to the deaths of millions of people, literally,

1930
01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:45,599
Speaker 16: not figuratively. It's a very, very dire situation. And it's

1931
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 16: kind of crazy because neither the US nor Iran want

1932
01:30:49,240 --> 01:30:51,160
Speaker 16: this war. They made it clear that they don't want it.

1933
01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:53,720
Speaker 16: You saw it in the communication behind the scenes about it.

1934
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:57,400
Speaker 16: And yet we're put in a situation right now where Iran,

1935
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 16: feeling compelled to respond to a major assassination in their

1936
01:31:01,240 --> 01:31:04,240
Speaker 16: capital city, is pushing us to a potential confrontation between

1937
01:31:04,240 --> 01:31:06,760
Speaker 16: the US and Iran. And it's utterly insane that you

1938
01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:10,879
Speaker 16: allow Israel that much leverage over American politics and policy

1939
01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:13,040
Speaker 16: to the point to where we're willing to go to

1940
01:31:13,080 --> 01:31:14,599
Speaker 16: a war that we don't want to go to against

1941
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:17,000
Speaker 16: the country that doesn't want war in defense of a

1942
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:19,719
Speaker 16: regime that is currently committing genocide in Gaza and engaging

1943
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:23,000
Speaker 16: in these propagations to spread that war. And it's worth

1944
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:26,240
Speaker 16: noting what Netanyahu's thinking in all of this. He is

1945
01:31:26,240 --> 01:31:28,040
Speaker 16: stuck between a rock and a harp place. There is

1946
01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 16: no political way out of the situation that he found

1947
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 16: himself in. That genocide has been going on for over

1948
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:38,519
Speaker 16: ten months, killed endless countless people in Gaza, tens of thousands,

1949
01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:40,640
Speaker 16: and those are the low estimates. The official estimates are

1950
01:31:40,680 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 16: almost certainly an undercount. He hasn't defeated Hamas militarily, has

1951
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:47,479
Speaker 16: not been able to retreat the hostages militarily, and the

1952
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:49,880
Speaker 16: only way out of this is basically a ceasefire. But

1953
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:53,080
Speaker 16: a ceasefire also means the end of Baba Nataniahu's career

1954
01:31:53,520 --> 01:31:56,400
Speaker 16: and his entire legacy as the person on whose watch

1955
01:31:57,160 --> 01:32:00,960
Speaker 16: everything fell apart. This promise of Israeli secure already did not,

1956
01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:03,640
Speaker 16: you know? Just he knows that this is the end

1957
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:06,599
Speaker 16: for him, and he is willing to provoke a regional

1958
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:09,439
Speaker 16: war in order for him to find a political way

1959
01:32:09,439 --> 01:32:11,639
Speaker 16: out of it, because ultimately, for natania Who, the only

1960
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:14,599
Speaker 16: victory there is there is to successfully complete the genocide

1961
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:18,639
Speaker 16: in Gaza, and with a Biden administration that means endless time.

1962
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:20,000
Speaker 16: He wants to be able to drag this out for

1963
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:22,040
Speaker 16: as long as possible, or if he gets a Trump

1964
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:25,600
Speaker 16: administration in then they might have a complete loosening of

1965
01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:28,240
Speaker 16: the reins and for them to simply go to Brazerk

1966
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:31,120
Speaker 16: and actually start massacring people at far, far greater numbers,

1967
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:33,360
Speaker 16: which is kind of crazy to think because what's already

1968
01:32:33,400 --> 01:32:36,840
Speaker 16: happening is a horror beyond imagination, and.

1969
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:39,639
Speaker 1: Likely accelerate the annexation of the West Bank as well,

1970
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:42,639
Speaker 1: which is something that Miriam Adelson, who's huge donor to Trump,

1971
01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:44,840
Speaker 1: has said that she you know, that's basically what she's

1972
01:32:44,880 --> 01:32:47,240
Speaker 1: asking for in exchange for her campaign.

1973
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:50,040
Speaker 16: Cash, and Israeli policy has been they have not been

1974
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:52,800
Speaker 16: squeamish about being open about that. At this point, you

1975
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:54,760
Speaker 16: have the entire Cannescid voting in opposition to a two

1976
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:57,840
Speaker 16: state solution or Palestinian state even in the future, and

1977
01:32:57,960 --> 01:33:01,120
Speaker 16: a situation frankly right now where there are running literal

1978
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:04,479
Speaker 16: rape camps and torture camps for Palestinians, and when news

1979
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:07,360
Speaker 16: of that breaks and gets out, the reaction is not

1980
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:09,800
Speaker 16: to deny or be embarrassed, but to basically flaunt it

1981
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:12,439
Speaker 16: and be proud of it. You have massive riots in

1982
01:33:12,479 --> 01:33:15,160
Speaker 16: defense of the rapists taking place in Israel, and members

1983
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:18,479
Speaker 16: of these raelly parliament the Knesset also saying openly that

1984
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:21,120
Speaker 16: they defend this kind of policy. And you know, they're

1985
01:33:21,160 --> 01:33:23,760
Speaker 16: basically on track to let these people off either on

1986
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:26,599
Speaker 16: no charges at all or in extremely light charges, simply

1987
01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:29,160
Speaker 16: because they have that little value for Palestine life. And

1988
01:33:29,200 --> 01:33:31,599
Speaker 16: that's the regime that we're going to bat for. It's

1989
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:33,799
Speaker 16: just utterly insane. It makes absolutely no sense.

1990
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:37,720
Speaker 1: So yesterday you brought up the ceasefire talks which are ongoing,

1991
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:40,040
Speaker 1: and I think very pretty helpless at this point.

1992
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:41,160
Speaker 3: I mean, for one.

1993
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:45,760
Speaker 1: Thing, Israel assassinated the top Hamas negotiator, who you know,

1994
01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:49,640
Speaker 1: in the context of Hamas was more of more interested

1995
01:33:49,680 --> 01:33:52,400
Speaker 1: in those peace talks, and now you have yeah, Yah Sinowar.

1996
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 1: It was the direct you know, negotiator, the top top

1997
01:33:56,040 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 1: communicator in terms of those talks. We got one of

1998
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:02,479
Speaker 1: these rapports. It's yesterday that we've gotten a million times. Well,

1999
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:05,120
Speaker 1: Biden's really frustrated with bb this time, and there's really

2000
01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:09,240
Speaker 1: tough conversations happening behind the scenes, and this time allegedly

2001
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:13,080
Speaker 1: the Americans were going to indicate that it's not only

2002
01:34:13,160 --> 01:34:15,599
Speaker 1: Hamas that's the problem in the ceasefire talks. They're going

2003
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:18,800
Speaker 1: to admit that Bibnatiaho is a problem in the ceasefire talks.

2004
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:20,400
Speaker 1: And low behold this morning in the New York Times

2005
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:21,960
Speaker 1: we get this report that I'm sure was, you know,

2006
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:24,960
Speaker 1: an intentional administration leak. The headline here is Israel was

2007
01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:28,080
Speaker 1: less flexible in recent causes. Cease fire talks documents show

2008
01:34:28,360 --> 01:34:31,200
Speaker 1: basically indicating that Israel came in and after they offered

2009
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:35,040
Speaker 1: a proposal that Hamas Biden large basically accepted, then bb

2010
01:34:35,160 --> 01:34:38,960
Speaker 1: came in and added all these additional demands that his

2011
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:43,360
Speaker 1: own negotiators knew were effectively poison pills to try to

2012
01:34:43,479 --> 01:34:44,559
Speaker 1: kill these talks.

2013
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:47,519
Speaker 3: This is no surprise to you and me, Is it real?

2014
01:34:47,680 --> 01:34:49,080
Speaker 3: Is it actually a surprise to them?

2015
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:49,320
Speaker 6: Like?

2016
01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:52,040
Speaker 3: Are they that dumb? Yeah, that they really.

2017
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:54,360
Speaker 1: Didn't see these dynamics which have been in place the

2018
01:34:54,520 --> 01:34:55,120
Speaker 1: entire time.

2019
01:34:55,280 --> 01:34:55,519
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2020
01:34:56,080 --> 01:34:58,479
Speaker 16: This honestly for people who have been paying attention, that

2021
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:00,439
Speaker 16: has also been obvious for a very very long time

2022
01:35:00,720 --> 01:35:03,360
Speaker 16: that Hamas has made clear early on that they're willing

2023
01:35:03,400 --> 01:35:05,479
Speaker 16: to give up all the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire,

2024
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:08,160
Speaker 16: and that Tanyahu kept looking for reasons to put up obstacles.

2025
01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:10,880
Speaker 16: And the big sticking point for many months was that

2026
01:35:10,960 --> 01:35:13,840
Speaker 16: Hamas wanted the permanency's fire and Antaniahu wanted only a

2027
01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:17,200
Speaker 16: temporary cease fire where Hamas releases all the hostages and

2028
01:35:17,200 --> 01:35:19,800
Speaker 16: then he goes back to finishing genocide in Gaza. That

2029
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:23,080
Speaker 16: was a non starter position, and insanely enough, Hamas was

2030
01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:25,439
Speaker 16: finally under enough pressure to actually agree to it, the

2031
01:35:25,479 --> 01:35:27,840
Speaker 16: idea of simply a temporary cease fire with a possibility

2032
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:30,200
Speaker 16: of it extending, and Ntaiaho still found a reason to

2033
01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:33,120
Speaker 16: say no to that. So I believe that Biden is

2034
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:35,600
Speaker 16: deeply frustrated with the fact that he does want the ceasefire.

2035
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:37,880
Speaker 16: But the question is are you willing to use the

2036
01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:40,240
Speaker 16: leverage of the United States has the only leverage With

2037
01:35:40,320 --> 01:35:43,800
Speaker 16: somebody as recalcitrant and rejectionist as Nataniahu, none of this

2038
01:35:43,840 --> 01:35:45,839
Speaker 16: is going to matter unless you cut off the weapons supply.

2039
01:35:46,400 --> 01:35:48,400
Speaker 16: What obviously needs to happen right now is for the

2040
01:35:48,479 --> 01:35:50,160
Speaker 16: United States to make clear that the US is not

2041
01:35:50,200 --> 01:35:52,800
Speaker 16: going to send another penny or another bomb or another

2042
01:35:52,840 --> 01:35:56,360
Speaker 16: bullet to the Israeli military until Israel ends that genocide

2043
01:35:56,400 --> 01:35:58,519
Speaker 16: or takes very meaningful steps indicating that they're moving in

2044
01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:01,000
Speaker 16: that direction, which right now there is none of. So

2045
01:36:01,320 --> 01:36:03,800
Speaker 16: that's the contrast, is that you have a US administration

2046
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:07,000
Speaker 16: that is willing to share its frustration more publicly now

2047
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:09,280
Speaker 16: because they are feeling under pressure and they do see

2048
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:12,439
Speaker 16: where what Natanyahu's plot is and where this is heading,

2049
01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:14,880
Speaker 16: and yet they're not willing to use meaningful leverage. I

2050
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:17,240
Speaker 16: don't think that Taniajou gives a crap whether Biden.

2051
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:19,519
Speaker 3: Leaks unhappy, leaks this or that or no.

2052
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:23,360
Speaker 16: Yeah, it's much leader stakes for Nathaniajo. He's going head

2053
01:36:23,400 --> 01:36:26,880
Speaker 16: and into further war and conflict and violence, and it's

2054
01:36:26,880 --> 01:36:28,800
Speaker 16: going to take a meaningful change in American policy for

2055
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:29,640
Speaker 16: that to actually.

2056
01:36:29,360 --> 01:36:29,840
Speaker 7: Change for them.

2057
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:32,120
Speaker 1: In fact, I think an argument can be made pretty

2058
01:36:32,120 --> 01:36:36,360
Speaker 1: compellingly that you know, the instances where Biden has expressed

2059
01:36:36,360 --> 01:36:39,880
Speaker 1: displeasure about this or that, or leaked displeasure about this

2060
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:43,000
Speaker 1: or that, and bb has gone ahead and bucked him

2061
01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:45,320
Speaker 1: and done what he wanted to do have actually bolstered

2062
01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:48,000
Speaker 1: him politically that it has actually improved his approval ratings

2063
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:48,960
Speaker 1: within the State of Israel.

2064
01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:51,519
Speaker 16: It's incredibly humiliating for the American president that just for

2065
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:54,280
Speaker 16: that dynamic between us and a client state that they

2066
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:56,600
Speaker 16: constantly tell us to shut the hell up.

2067
01:36:56,600 --> 01:36:57,920
Speaker 7: They don't want our advice on what to do.

2068
01:36:57,960 --> 01:36:59,760
Speaker 16: They just want us to keep paying, you know, paying

2069
01:36:59,800 --> 01:37:01,000
Speaker 16: for the weapons and sending them over.

2070
01:37:01,439 --> 01:37:02,519
Speaker 7: That's a stupid dynamic.

2071
01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:04,640
Speaker 16: It's fine if you want to say that Israel's a

2072
01:37:04,640 --> 01:37:06,719
Speaker 16: independent country and they can make their own decisions, fine,

2073
01:37:06,800 --> 01:37:10,360
Speaker 16: but certainly American taxpayer should not be funding their crimes.

2074
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:12,719
Speaker 16: That's the problem here, is that we have a dynamic

2075
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:15,479
Speaker 16: in which we constantly insist that Israel's independent country, they

2076
01:37:15,479 --> 01:37:16,360
Speaker 16: make their own decisions.

2077
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:17,679
Speaker 7: All we can do is advise them.

2078
01:37:17,880 --> 01:37:21,120
Speaker 16: Meanwhile, American taxpayers are picking up that tab and instead

2079
01:37:21,120 --> 01:37:24,120
Speaker 16: of taking care of Americans at home with we were

2080
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:26,080
Speaker 16: just talking about in the previous segment about the fact

2081
01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:28,280
Speaker 16: that we're the only country developed country that doesn't.

2082
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:28,559
Speaker 7: Have health care.

2083
01:37:28,920 --> 01:37:30,880
Speaker 16: All that stuff is set to aside, and in Israel,

2084
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:33,559
Speaker 16: everybody has public health care. And that's the country that

2085
01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:35,840
Speaker 16: we're sending extra weapons and money to to make sure

2086
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:39,080
Speaker 16: that they can commit atrocities with impunity. That's an extremely

2087
01:37:39,120 --> 01:37:41,880
Speaker 16: stupid and broken dynamic that Americans ought to object to

2088
01:37:41,880 --> 01:37:43,599
Speaker 16: if they were more familiar with actually how it works.

2089
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:48,360
Speaker 1: That is such a great point. I wanted to get

2090
01:37:48,439 --> 01:37:53,280
Speaker 1: your assessment of how the switch of Biden for Kamala Harris,

2091
01:37:53,640 --> 01:37:59,559
Speaker 1: how that changes both the potential trajectory of Israel policy

2092
01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:01,840
Speaker 1: here in the US, if it does represent any type

2093
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:04,559
Speaker 1: of the potential shift. And also I was curious from

2094
01:38:04,600 --> 01:38:09,840
Speaker 1: your perspective how bib Nanna who may be assessing that switch,

2095
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:12,639
Speaker 1: and how that may have changed his calculus here as well.

2096
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:15,559
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think that there is the potential for a

2097
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:20,040
Speaker 16: change with Kamala Harris. It was quite obvious that Biden,

2098
01:38:20,120 --> 01:38:23,240
Speaker 16: in addition to carrying out a terrible policy, also did

2099
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:24,680
Speaker 16: not know how to talk about this with any kind

2100
01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:26,040
Speaker 16: of empathy towards Palestinians.

2101
01:38:26,360 --> 01:38:27,559
Speaker 7: It was fundamentally clear.

2102
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:27,920
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2103
01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:31,439
Speaker 16: I don't know whether it's him deeply ideologically from his background,

2104
01:38:31,479 --> 01:38:33,400
Speaker 16: or it's his mental decline or whatever it might be,

2105
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:36,120
Speaker 16: but he always spoke in a very humanizing way about

2106
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:39,519
Speaker 16: israelis utterly dehumanizing of Palestinians, whether you can believe them

2107
01:38:39,560 --> 01:38:41,560
Speaker 16: or their numbers and all that. And it's obvious that

2108
01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:44,960
Speaker 16: it's just empty rhetoric whenever he expresses concern for Israel

2109
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:47,240
Speaker 16: engaging in discriminate bombings or all that, it did not

2110
01:38:47,360 --> 01:38:49,960
Speaker 16: have any emotional content behind that. He did not speak

2111
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:53,320
Speaker 16: with any real or meaningful empathy. And on top of that,

2112
01:38:53,360 --> 01:38:56,800
Speaker 16: repeated every Israeli lie about Palestinians, whether it's the forty

2113
01:38:56,800 --> 01:38:58,800
Speaker 16: beheaded babies he claimed he saw the pictures of them.

2114
01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:00,760
Speaker 16: That was an Israeli lie about what took place on

2115
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:04,280
Speaker 16: October seventh, about the Hamas headquarters being under a hospital.

2116
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:07,240
Speaker 16: All that stuff was stuff that Biden was willing to endorse.

2117
01:39:07,640 --> 01:39:09,559
Speaker 16: And the only meaningful shift that we've seen so far

2118
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:13,720
Speaker 16: between Kamala Harris and Biden is that Kamala seems to

2119
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:16,679
Speaker 16: appreciate the magnitude of the crimes that Israel is committing,

2120
01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:19,639
Speaker 16: and even though she's not offering a different policy, she's

2121
01:39:19,640 --> 01:39:22,240
Speaker 16: speaking about it with greater empathy. She is talking about

2122
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:24,800
Speaker 16: how utterly unacceptable it is that people are behaving in

2123
01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:28,679
Speaker 16: that fashion, the fact that so many Americans of Palestine

2124
01:39:28,720 --> 01:39:31,160
Speaker 16: in origin are losing family members, and how devastating that is,

2125
01:39:31,200 --> 01:39:33,360
Speaker 16: and how it desperately needs to come to an end immediately.

2126
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:37,920
Speaker 16: She's able to express some more empathy. But whether that's

2127
01:39:38,080 --> 01:39:40,400
Speaker 16: just campaign rhetoric because they look at the polls and

2128
01:39:40,439 --> 01:39:42,599
Speaker 16: they see how deeply a problem it is, or whether

2129
01:39:42,680 --> 01:39:45,160
Speaker 16: Kamala Harris is actually interested in a meaningful policy change

2130
01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:47,519
Speaker 16: is something that remains to be seen. And I think

2131
01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:50,200
Speaker 16: that just the fact that it's not Biden on the

2132
01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:53,320
Speaker 16: ballot at this point will bring a portion of progressives

2133
01:39:53,360 --> 01:39:55,599
Speaker 16: who've been deeply troubled by his policy to be able

2134
01:39:55,640 --> 01:39:57,400
Speaker 16: to stomach the idea of voting for Democrats.

2135
01:39:57,640 --> 01:39:59,479
Speaker 7: But it's basically hers to.

2136
01:39:59,439 --> 01:40:01,200
Speaker 16: Win or lose, and I think it really depends on

2137
01:40:01,280 --> 01:40:03,800
Speaker 16: how she behaves between now and the election. Yeah, and

2138
01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:06,839
Speaker 16: how strongly she signals a major shift in American policy,

2139
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:08,800
Speaker 16: or whether they can even get a ceasefire between now

2140
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:11,360
Speaker 16: and the election, that could have a very very significant impact.

2141
01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:15,760
Speaker 1: So, speaking of that tone, we had an instance in

2142
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:19,719
Speaker 1: Detroit where there were propal Sinne protesters and she took

2143
01:40:19,760 --> 01:40:24,600
Speaker 1: a very dismissive, condescending, i'm speaking tone, and there was

2144
01:40:24,640 --> 01:40:25,439
Speaker 1: a backlash to that.

2145
01:40:26,240 --> 01:40:28,960
Speaker 3: Then she goes to another rally I.

2146
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:31,720
Speaker 1: Don't know if this was the Phoenix or the Las

2147
01:40:31,840 --> 01:40:35,840
Speaker 1: Vegas one, where she's again faced with protesters and she

2148
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:40,680
Speaker 1: clearly had developed a different strategy to address the protesters.

2149
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:43,280
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to how she handled this one La.

2150
01:40:43,320 --> 01:40:47,760
Speaker 17: Chang clothes, respecting the voices that I think that we

2151
01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:50,640
Speaker 17: are hearing from. And let me just say this on

2152
01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:54,200
Speaker 17: topic of what I think I'm hearing over there, let

2153
01:40:54,200 --> 01:40:55,760
Speaker 17: me just speak to that for a moment, and then

2154
01:40:55,760 --> 01:40:57,519
Speaker 17: I'm going to get back to the business in hand.

2155
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:06,040
Speaker 5: So let me say I have been clear.

2156
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:10,599
Speaker 17: Now is the time to get a ceasefire deal and

2157
01:41:10,760 --> 01:41:20,360
Speaker 17: get the hostage deal done. Now is the time, and

2158
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:24,880
Speaker 17: the President and I are working around the clock every

2159
01:41:24,960 --> 01:41:27,639
Speaker 17: day to get that ceasefire deal done.

2160
01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:29,760
Speaker 5: And bring the hostages home.

2161
01:41:36,400 --> 01:41:39,479
Speaker 17: So I respect your voices, but we are here to

2162
01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:42,280
Speaker 17: now talk about this race in twenty twenty four.

2163
01:41:44,200 --> 01:41:44,519
Speaker 3: All right.

2164
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:47,679
Speaker 1: So on the one hand, Omar, you have better tone there.

2165
01:41:47,840 --> 01:41:50,200
Speaker 1: You have her comments after her meeting with bib Nania,

2166
01:41:50,240 --> 01:41:53,840
Speaker 1: who I also thought, we're you know, well executed. You

2167
01:41:53,880 --> 01:41:57,960
Speaker 1: have her choice of Tim Walls over Joshapiro. Walls was

2168
01:41:58,160 --> 01:42:01,639
Speaker 1: much more empathetic towards the committed movement. Shapiro of course,

2169
01:42:01,720 --> 01:42:05,479
Speaker 1: compared to palestudent protesters to the KKK. So you have that,

2170
01:42:06,280 --> 01:42:08,880
Speaker 1: you have actually a new choice of a liaison to

2171
01:42:08,920 --> 01:42:12,599
Speaker 1: the Jewish community that people were favorable towards. That seemed

2172
01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:15,120
Speaker 1: to be a positive indication as well in terms of

2173
01:42:15,120 --> 01:42:17,400
Speaker 1: her direction. One of her top policy advisors is more

2174
01:42:17,439 --> 01:42:21,120
Speaker 1: of the like Obama school foreign policy, which was, you know,

2175
01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:23,320
Speaker 1: a runnie and nuclear deal. A little better on these

2176
01:42:23,360 --> 01:42:26,120
Speaker 1: issues than the Biden foreign policy team has been. On

2177
01:42:26,160 --> 01:42:28,720
Speaker 1: the other hand, even when she says there, that's just

2178
01:42:28,760 --> 01:42:31,719
Speaker 1: the Biden policy. So it's not like we've had any

2179
01:42:31,920 --> 01:42:33,880
Speaker 1: actual concrete indication.

2180
01:42:34,160 --> 01:42:34,839
Speaker 3: Of a shift.

2181
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:37,759
Speaker 1: So how do you look at this constellation of events

2182
01:42:37,800 --> 01:42:38,480
Speaker 1: and signals.

2183
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:42,120
Speaker 16: She's savvy, right, she watched the backlash to her first

2184
01:42:42,120 --> 01:42:44,200
Speaker 16: reaction to protesters and realized that she had to make

2185
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:45,960
Speaker 16: an adjustment, and she made it. And I think that

2186
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:49,120
Speaker 16: the VP pick actually is not that trivial either. Yeah,

2187
01:42:49,160 --> 01:42:52,719
Speaker 16: it's funny because both Tim Waltz and Shapiro are both

2188
01:42:52,840 --> 01:42:55,840
Speaker 16: your standard pro Israel Democrats, right. Both of them are

2189
01:42:55,920 --> 01:42:57,720
Speaker 16: kind of soft and accountability for Israel, and none of

2190
01:42:57,720 --> 01:42:59,280
Speaker 16: them is eager to cut off military aid or any

2191
01:42:59,320 --> 01:42:59,839
Speaker 16: of that stuff.

2192
01:43:00,200 --> 01:43:01,480
Speaker 7: Literally, the only difference.

2193
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:04,280
Speaker 16: Between them is that emotional intelligence on how to address

2194
01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:06,599
Speaker 16: the deep anger among young people in this country about

2195
01:43:06,600 --> 01:43:10,000
Speaker 16: what's happening in Gaza. And in one case, you've got

2196
01:43:10,040 --> 01:43:13,680
Speaker 16: the standard pro Israel line of tumult, that is, we

2197
01:43:13,720 --> 01:43:16,559
Speaker 16: support Israel, but we understand why people are angry and

2198
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:18,840
Speaker 16: why this means a lot, because the situation is unacceptable.

2199
01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:21,639
Speaker 16: It's again just speaking about it with empathy versus Shapiro,

2200
01:43:21,680 --> 01:43:25,280
Speaker 16: who speaks about it basically like a monster, just going,

2201
01:43:25,320 --> 01:43:29,600
Speaker 16: you know, dismissing those people and ascribing racist intentions on

2202
01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:32,799
Speaker 16: their part and basically even suggesting policies that might curtail

2203
01:43:32,840 --> 01:43:35,080
Speaker 16: their free speech. So that's a deep contrast on a

2204
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:37,720
Speaker 16: domestic level, not on a foreign policy level. And yet

2205
01:43:37,720 --> 01:43:41,680
Speaker 16: you have the entire Republican conversation again amplifying the ridiculous

2206
01:43:41,760 --> 01:43:45,800
Speaker 16: charge of anti Semitism being alive in the Democratic Party.

2207
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:48,559
Speaker 16: And part of this decision ironic is hell, given that

2208
01:43:48,640 --> 01:43:50,760
Speaker 16: Donald Trump by nobody comes even close to him in

2209
01:43:50,800 --> 01:43:54,440
Speaker 16: the conversation in terms of anti Semitic engagements. He accused

2210
01:43:54,560 --> 01:43:57,200
Speaker 16: the American Jewish community of you know, they keep saying

2211
01:43:57,240 --> 01:43:59,960
Speaker 16: Israel your country, as opposed to America being their country.

2212
01:44:01,560 --> 01:44:05,000
Speaker 16: A meeting with Republican Jewish donors, said you don't like

2213
01:44:05,080 --> 01:44:07,040
Speaker 16: me because I don't need your money again, playing into

2214
01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:07,760
Speaker 16: that trope.

2215
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:09,280
Speaker 7: For the idea you liked. I think he may have

2216
01:44:09,360 --> 01:44:09,800
Speaker 7: even said the.

2217
01:44:09,800 --> 01:44:11,960
Speaker 16: Words, you like to control your politicians with your money,

2218
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:14,360
Speaker 16: and I'm not game for that. This kind of rhetoric

2219
01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:16,920
Speaker 16: from Trump and the fact that there isn't anybody you

2220
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:19,920
Speaker 16: know when you look at that ticket with Vance and

2221
01:44:19,960 --> 01:44:22,840
Speaker 16: you contrast it with the Democratic ticket, with Kamala Harris

2222
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:26,519
Speaker 16: having a Jewish husband, with the Secretary of State under

2223
01:44:26,600 --> 01:44:29,200
Speaker 16: Biden being also Jewish, with the fact that the leader

2224
01:44:29,200 --> 01:44:31,960
Speaker 16: in the Senate is Jewish, all of that, and to

2225
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:35,880
Speaker 16: still be able to have Democrats panic in reaction to

2226
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:38,759
Speaker 16: that charge of anti semitism in a way, it's troubling

2227
01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:40,320
Speaker 16: to me. I mean, you should be able to just

2228
01:44:40,520 --> 01:44:43,240
Speaker 16: laugh off that kind of accusation from Republicans and shut

2229
01:44:43,240 --> 01:44:47,000
Speaker 16: it down because it's utterly baseless. It's just on its

2230
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:49,240
Speaker 16: face the behavior of clowns when they bring that up.

2231
01:44:49,479 --> 01:44:52,280
Speaker 16: And instead you constantly see this pressure. And my speculation

2232
01:44:52,400 --> 01:44:55,439
Speaker 16: is that the initial bad reaction from Kamala Harris to

2233
01:44:55,479 --> 01:44:58,160
Speaker 16: protesters came on the back end of all that backlash

2234
01:44:58,160 --> 01:45:00,479
Speaker 16: of how came it didn't pick a ship z as

2235
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:02,040
Speaker 16: your running mate, And I think she felt the need

2236
01:45:02,080 --> 01:45:04,599
Speaker 16: to compensate there, and at some point I really wish

2237
01:45:04,600 --> 01:45:07,200
Speaker 16: that Democrats would just develop a backbone and start dismissing

2238
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:09,639
Speaker 16: the bullshit charges that are directed at yeah, and start

2239
01:45:09,720 --> 01:45:13,720
Speaker 16: owning their the progressive positions that you know, again a

2240
01:45:13,760 --> 01:45:16,000
Speaker 16: lot of it is rhetoric, not enough of it as policy,

2241
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:19,520
Speaker 16: but at least in positions to advocate for progressive policies

2242
01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:21,519
Speaker 16: in which you treat everybody equally. That's something to be

2243
01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:23,880
Speaker 16: proud of, not something to shy away from. And they

2244
01:45:23,920 --> 01:45:26,559
Speaker 16: have to develop more resilience to this smear machine that

2245
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:29,519
Speaker 16: we see, especially in relation to Israel, where it's a

2246
01:45:29,640 --> 01:45:33,520
Speaker 16: edge issue that Republicans constantly use to bludge in Democrats,

2247
01:45:33,720 --> 01:45:36,519
Speaker 16: and every time they do, rather than own a policy

2248
01:45:36,560 --> 01:45:39,160
Speaker 16: of accountability for Israel, theymediately panic and say, we have

2249
01:45:39,240 --> 01:45:40,719
Speaker 16: to prove that we're more pro Israel.

2250
01:45:40,760 --> 01:45:42,599
Speaker 7: It's just it's a losing strategy.

2251
01:45:42,600 --> 01:45:44,639
Speaker 16: In the long term. We're seeing the beginnings of it,

2252
01:45:44,800 --> 01:45:47,680
Speaker 16: and there's an obvious, you know, demographic shift among young

2253
01:45:47,720 --> 01:45:48,919
Speaker 16: people who see this issue.

2254
01:45:48,760 --> 01:45:49,439
Speaker 3: Very very differently.

2255
01:45:49,520 --> 01:45:49,680
Speaker 5: Right.

2256
01:45:50,160 --> 01:45:52,720
Speaker 1: One of the things that I've seen with regard to

2257
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:57,799
Speaker 1: defend AMLA is this idea we'll listen Biden's the president.

2258
01:45:58,240 --> 01:46:01,840
Speaker 1: She can't really publicly under cut him, like she's trying

2259
01:46:01,880 --> 01:46:04,719
Speaker 1: to do her little tone shifts and pick the people

2260
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:08,040
Speaker 1: that seem to indicate a different direction potentially, and of

2261
01:46:08,080 --> 01:46:11,040
Speaker 1: course we're very pragmatic about what that they're not gonna

2262
01:46:11,040 --> 01:46:12,960
Speaker 1: be where we are, but you know, maybe a little

2263
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:16,920
Speaker 1: more Obama versus Biden. But she can't undercut Biden, so

2264
01:46:16,960 --> 01:46:19,519
Speaker 1: she can't actually come out and set forth a policy

2265
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:22,280
Speaker 1: that is different than what he has expressed. Do you

2266
01:46:22,280 --> 01:46:24,160
Speaker 1: think that that's fair or do you think that she

2267
01:46:24,240 --> 01:46:27,080
Speaker 1: does have some room to set herself apart from his policy.

2268
01:46:27,240 --> 01:46:30,400
Speaker 16: Yeah, she's in a tough spot percisely because of that.

2269
01:46:30,439 --> 01:46:33,120
Speaker 16: I think that is fair, But it's incumbent on her.

2270
01:46:33,320 --> 01:46:36,960
Speaker 16: There's just the reality that the Israeli policy is absolutely intolerable.

2271
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:39,960
Speaker 16: It is completely morally indefensible. And yes, you do have

2272
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:42,559
Speaker 16: the constraints of currently being vice president serving to a

2273
01:46:42,600 --> 01:46:45,400
Speaker 16: president that feels maybe a little bit differently about this.

2274
01:46:46,240 --> 01:46:48,639
Speaker 16: But it's really on her to draw the contrast between

2275
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:52,960
Speaker 16: now and the election. Really, it's a dynamic where voters

2276
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:55,400
Speaker 16: are paying attention and they've lost many of them over

2277
01:46:55,439 --> 01:46:57,120
Speaker 16: this issue, and it's really on her to try to

2278
01:46:57,160 --> 01:47:01,720
Speaker 16: figure out a corrective course. And yeah, she's not in

2279
01:47:01,760 --> 01:47:05,120
Speaker 16: an easy position, but you can't expect people who have

2280
01:47:05,160 --> 01:47:08,040
Speaker 16: been deeply frustrated with this administration and the way that

2281
01:47:08,040 --> 01:47:12,320
Speaker 16: they have dealt with this issue to basically simply be

2282
01:47:12,360 --> 01:47:14,479
Speaker 16: threatened with the prospect that Trump is worse. There's no

2283
01:47:14,520 --> 01:47:16,759
Speaker 16: doubt that Trump would be worse on every issue, including

2284
01:47:16,760 --> 01:47:19,400
Speaker 16: this one, frankly, but still, for a lot of people,

2285
01:47:19,520 --> 01:47:22,599
Speaker 16: genocide is a red line. And I think one way

2286
01:47:22,640 --> 01:47:25,559
Speaker 16: that Kamala Harris could potentially do something meaningful is apply

2287
01:47:25,920 --> 01:47:29,559
Speaker 16: internal pressure within the administration right now to get that

2288
01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:33,760
Speaker 16: cease fire done, and maybe that it's something that ends

2289
01:47:33,800 --> 01:47:35,719
Speaker 16: up swinging a little bit more in the Democrat's direction

2290
01:47:35,800 --> 01:47:37,680
Speaker 16: for progressives come election day.

2291
01:47:37,760 --> 01:47:40,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, i'll tell you, Omar, my highest aspiration is

2292
01:47:41,040 --> 01:47:44,120
Speaker 1: just that you would have someone who's not ideological on

2293
01:47:44,160 --> 01:47:47,240
Speaker 1: the issue. Biden clearly very ideological, and I think Josha

2294
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:50,479
Speaker 1: Piro also threw his you know, repeated expressions and the

2295
01:47:50,520 --> 01:47:53,760
Speaker 1: way that he approached the issue was also clearly very ideological.

2296
01:47:54,160 --> 01:47:58,120
Speaker 1: Because if you have just your sort of replacement level Democrat,

2297
01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:01,519
Speaker 1: they can read the polls and see that this policy

2298
01:48:01,880 --> 01:48:04,680
Speaker 1: forget about I'm not counting on their morality, right, They

2299
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:08,320
Speaker 1: can see this policy has been politically disastrous for them

2300
01:48:08,680 --> 01:48:11,920
Speaker 1: and created this potential, you know, massive war which would

2301
01:48:11,920 --> 01:48:17,559
Speaker 1: be even more politically disastrous for them. So my highest

2302
01:48:17,600 --> 01:48:21,200
Speaker 1: aspiration is that in Kamala Harrison Tim Walls, you just

2303
01:48:21,280 --> 01:48:21,839
Speaker 1: have two.

2304
01:48:21,680 --> 01:48:24,320
Speaker 3: People who are not ideologically.

2305
01:48:23,640 --> 01:48:27,120
Speaker 1: Committed to the issue, who see Bebe as the partisan,

2306
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:30,800
Speaker 1: far right fascist figure that he is, who wants to

2307
01:48:30,840 --> 01:48:33,400
Speaker 1: elect Donald Trump, by the way, and can read the

2308
01:48:33,439 --> 01:48:37,080
Speaker 1: polls and respond to the pressure and realize that this

2309
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:40,479
Speaker 1: is a politically foolish direction because as I said, I'm

2310
01:48:40,520 --> 01:48:43,080
Speaker 1: not counting on anyone's morality here winning the day.

2311
01:48:43,360 --> 01:48:45,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that's exactly right.

2312
01:48:45,040 --> 01:48:47,439
Speaker 16: And I think in a way, Biba Nataniaho is paying

2313
01:48:47,439 --> 01:48:49,519
Speaker 16: attention to the fact that this is the trend. It's

2314
01:48:49,640 --> 01:48:52,639
Speaker 16: escalating pressure way too slow for my taste. I think

2315
01:48:52,760 --> 01:48:55,760
Speaker 16: you should have pulled the plug on genocide from day one, right.

2316
01:48:55,880 --> 01:48:58,280
Speaker 16: But Netaniahu is noticing the fact that there is growing

2317
01:48:58,280 --> 01:49:00,760
Speaker 16: frustration in the Biden administration, which is why he's pushing

2318
01:49:00,800 --> 01:49:03,360
Speaker 16: for this regional war to blow things up. And it's

2319
01:49:03,360 --> 01:49:04,960
Speaker 16: not surprising that it came on the back of his

2320
01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:07,160
Speaker 16: visit to Washington. By the way that he did the

2321
01:49:07,200 --> 01:49:11,680
Speaker 16: bombings in Beirut and Tehran. It you wonder what conversations

2322
01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:15,280
Speaker 16: may have been had with the Trump team while he

2323
01:49:15,360 --> 01:49:17,280
Speaker 16: was here, because he did actually meet with Trump as well.

2324
01:49:17,720 --> 01:49:20,760
Speaker 16: And it seems like the Republicans seem to think that

2325
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:24,920
Speaker 16: for things to blow up. This rhetoric from Trump has

2326
01:49:24,960 --> 01:49:26,560
Speaker 16: been all in the direction of we have all this

2327
01:49:26,640 --> 01:49:28,439
Speaker 16: chaos in the world because of Biden, and if I'm

2328
01:49:28,439 --> 01:49:31,040
Speaker 16: in power, then I'm going to restore peace and order

2329
01:49:31,040 --> 01:49:33,160
Speaker 16: and all of that. You can't believe a word of

2330
01:49:33,200 --> 01:49:35,360
Speaker 16: what Trump is saying, but nonetheless, if he can demonstrate

2331
01:49:35,400 --> 01:49:38,000
Speaker 16: more chaos in the world while Biden is still president,

2332
01:49:38,520 --> 01:49:40,920
Speaker 16: that's a strategy that Republicans think play in their favor,

2333
01:49:40,920 --> 01:49:43,479
Speaker 16: and it seems to be one that Viba Nataniajo is

2334
01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:47,160
Speaker 16: running with. And here's the insane part is that after

2335
01:49:47,439 --> 01:49:51,600
Speaker 16: those profigations and the prospect of regional war expanding under Nataniajo,

2336
01:49:51,800 --> 01:49:54,320
Speaker 16: what did Biden do. He released the two thousand pound

2337
01:49:54,439 --> 01:49:57,400
Speaker 16: bombs he's been withholding from Israel's in preparation for that

2338
01:49:57,439 --> 01:50:01,000
Speaker 16: regional war. So in a way, the for Natiaho is

2339
01:50:01,040 --> 01:50:02,960
Speaker 16: the more you escalate the more you're going to get

2340
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:05,000
Speaker 16: about an administration to bend for what you want.

2341
01:50:05,439 --> 01:50:08,120
Speaker 7: And yeah, it's a dynamic. It's precisely what you said.

2342
01:50:08,400 --> 01:50:11,320
Speaker 16: We have to understand that Natiniaho is interested in electing

2343
01:50:11,360 --> 01:50:15,760
Speaker 16: Trump and if Democrats are serious about not allowing, you know,

2344
01:50:15,800 --> 01:50:17,920
Speaker 16: not to be taken advantage of in this case, you

2345
01:50:18,080 --> 01:50:20,920
Speaker 16: need a real that you need the backbone to do

2346
01:50:21,400 --> 01:50:23,479
Speaker 16: not a cosmetic shift in policy, but a meaningful shift

2347
01:50:23,560 --> 01:50:26,479
Speaker 16: in policy. And it's just having the foresight. You know,

2348
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:31,639
Speaker 16: politicians are by nature risk averse. It's all about status

2349
01:50:31,720 --> 01:50:33,560
Speaker 16: quo is how I got here, and you need to

2350
01:50:33,600 --> 01:50:35,920
Speaker 16: stick with the status quo to remain in power. But

2351
01:50:36,040 --> 01:50:38,040
Speaker 16: something is happening in the world that is a very

2352
01:50:38,120 --> 01:50:40,640
Speaker 16: very significant, major shift and either you adapt to it

2353
01:50:40,760 --> 01:50:42,400
Speaker 16: or you keep your head stuck in the sand until

2354
01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:45,120
Speaker 16: you pay the consequences and lose over it. And this

2355
01:50:45,200 --> 01:50:47,599
Speaker 16: to me is a wake up call of reading the room,

2356
01:50:47,720 --> 01:50:49,960
Speaker 16: looking at what's happening in the world and understanding that

2357
01:50:50,000 --> 01:50:52,840
Speaker 16: if there was ever it's always been the morally correct

2358
01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:55,920
Speaker 16: position to have a major shift in American policy and

2359
01:50:55,920 --> 01:50:58,519
Speaker 16: to stop treating an apartheid regime in Israel like it's

2360
01:50:58,520 --> 01:51:01,000
Speaker 16: above the law and above the rules. But right now

2361
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:03,960
Speaker 16: that's a political necessity as well, and the question is

2362
01:51:03,960 --> 01:51:05,840
Speaker 16: is the Democratic Party going to wake up to that

2363
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:08,160
Speaker 16: shift and the fact that it is a domestic political

2364
01:51:08,200 --> 01:51:10,800
Speaker 16: necessity as well at this point rather than just a

2365
01:51:11,080 --> 01:51:13,000
Speaker 16: strategic and a moral imperative.

2366
01:51:13,479 --> 01:51:16,320
Speaker 1: All very well said, and Omar always grateful to have

2367
01:51:16,400 --> 01:51:18,280
Speaker 1: your time and your expertise, so thank you for coming

2368
01:51:18,280 --> 01:51:25,160
Speaker 1: in this morning. Israel's assault on Gaza continues endlessly, seemingly

2369
01:51:25,280 --> 01:51:27,760
Speaker 1: no end in sight. The US wimply looks on, makes

2370
01:51:27,760 --> 01:51:30,120
Speaker 1: some meaningless and disgruntled noises from time to time.

2371
01:51:30,200 --> 01:51:31,360
Speaker 3: Some superpower we are.

2372
01:51:31,720 --> 01:51:35,519
Speaker 1: The ICJ ordered Israel to stop its genocidal attacks, to

2373
01:51:35,560 --> 01:51:38,840
Speaker 1: no avail. The ICCs threatened the rest warrens, while they

2374
01:51:38,840 --> 01:51:41,559
Speaker 1: have failed to materialize as of yet, and we all

2375
01:51:41,560 --> 01:51:44,599
Speaker 1: wait with bated breath to see if Iron's retaliation response

2376
01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:48,479
Speaker 1: to Israel's provocation will plunge the whole region into an

2377
01:51:48,560 --> 01:51:51,920
Speaker 1: even bigger and much more deadly war. It often feels

2378
01:51:51,960 --> 01:51:55,080
Speaker 1: like the Israeli state can just act with impunity, raining

2379
01:51:55,200 --> 01:51:57,720
Speaker 1: tear down on a trapped population with no one and

2380
01:51:57,800 --> 01:52:01,040
Speaker 1: nothing able or willing to stop them, but just below

2381
01:52:01,080 --> 01:52:04,400
Speaker 1: the surface, a doom spiral for the Israeli state may

2382
01:52:04,520 --> 01:52:08,720
Speaker 1: already have been set into motion, a mounting economic calamity

2383
01:52:08,920 --> 01:52:12,759
Speaker 1: that threatens to collapse the state entirely. The BDS movement,

2384
01:52:12,880 --> 01:52:16,200
Speaker 1: in their wildest dreams, could never have imagined the economic

2385
01:52:16,280 --> 01:52:19,800
Speaker 1: toll that the Israeli state is basically inflicting on itself

2386
01:52:20,040 --> 01:52:21,639
Speaker 1: right now as we speak.

2387
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:22,879
Speaker 3: So here are the details.

2388
01:52:23,280 --> 01:52:26,759
Speaker 1: Mando Wise compiled what data is available on the Israeli economy,

2389
01:52:26,800 --> 01:52:28,559
Speaker 1: and the picture is really quite dire.

2390
01:52:28,800 --> 01:52:31,080
Speaker 3: Quote, over forty six.

2391
01:52:31,160 --> 01:52:35,280
Speaker 1: Thousand businesses have gone bankrupt, tourism has stopped, Israel's credit

2392
01:52:35,360 --> 01:52:38,320
Speaker 1: rating was lowered, Israeli bonds are sold at the prices

2393
01:52:38,360 --> 01:52:41,559
Speaker 1: of almost junk bond levels, and the foreign investments that

2394
01:52:41,560 --> 01:52:44,200
Speaker 1: have already dropped by sixty percent in the first quarter

2395
01:52:44,200 --> 01:52:46,240
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three as a result of the policies

2396
01:52:46,240 --> 01:52:49,559
Speaker 1: of Israel's far right government before October seventh, show no

2397
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:53,000
Speaker 1: prospects of recovery. The majority of the money invested in

2398
01:52:53,040 --> 01:52:57,240
Speaker 1: Israeli investment funds was diverted to investments abroad because Israelis

2399
01:52:57,479 --> 01:53:00,120
Speaker 1: do not want their own pension funds and insurance funds,

2400
01:53:00,200 --> 01:53:02,679
Speaker 1: or their own savings to be tied to the fate

2401
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:06,200
Speaker 1: of the State of Israel. Now, those business closures, they

2402
01:53:06,240 --> 01:53:09,240
Speaker 1: may actually just be the beginning. An estimate cited by

2403
01:53:09,280 --> 01:53:11,639
Speaker 1: the Times of Israel found that up to sixty thousand

2404
01:53:11,680 --> 01:53:15,360
Speaker 1: businesses might close before twenty twenty four is over. This

2405
01:53:15,439 --> 01:53:18,320
Speaker 1: is a greater impact than the COVID pandemic shutdown, and

2406
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:21,519
Speaker 1: would only be exacerbated by an expanded war with Hesbola

2407
01:53:21,640 --> 01:53:25,440
Speaker 1: and with Iran, the impacts of which frankly would be unfathomable.

2408
01:53:26,080 --> 01:53:28,240
Speaker 1: Just think about the realities right now though for the

2409
01:53:28,280 --> 01:53:31,400
Speaker 1: Israeli economy, Israeli workers have been called up to participate

2410
01:53:31,439 --> 01:53:34,560
Speaker 1: in the Gaza annihilation, under cutting the country's much celebrated

2411
01:53:34,560 --> 01:53:38,840
Speaker 1: tech sector. Another key sector, tourism, has completely dried up.

2412
01:53:39,080 --> 01:53:42,240
Speaker 1: Construction is at a standstill because the palaest means that

2413
01:53:42,320 --> 01:53:45,120
Speaker 1: Israel relies on as cheap labor. Force have been banned

2414
01:53:45,120 --> 01:53:48,439
Speaker 1: from coming to work outside of the occupied territories. Israeli

2415
01:53:48,479 --> 01:53:51,040
Speaker 1: attempts to import foreign workers as a new source of

2416
01:53:51,120 --> 01:53:55,040
Speaker 1: cheap labor have been largely unsuccessful. Turkey has announced a

2417
01:53:55,120 --> 01:53:58,799
Speaker 1: ban on exports to Israel, further crippling the construction industry

2418
01:53:59,000 --> 01:54:01,519
Speaker 1: and efforts to import from other nations are hampered by

2419
01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:04,880
Speaker 1: the efforts of the Huthis to block shipping into Israeli ports.

2420
01:54:05,280 --> 01:54:08,480
Speaker 1: Two hundred and fifty thousand Israelis continue to be internally

2421
01:54:08,479 --> 01:54:10,880
Speaker 1: displaced as a result of the tit for tat war

2422
01:54:10,920 --> 01:54:14,120
Speaker 1: with HESBLA, and panic is set in as Iran threatens

2423
01:54:14,160 --> 01:54:17,759
Speaker 1: a large response to the assassination of Ismaelhania that occurred

2424
01:54:17,760 --> 01:54:18,559
Speaker 1: on their soil.

2425
01:54:19,000 --> 01:54:19,200
Speaker 5: Now.

2426
01:54:19,240 --> 01:54:21,360
Speaker 3: Perhaps the biggest body blow, however.

2427
01:54:21,240 --> 01:54:24,320
Speaker 1: Was Intel pulling out of a planned twenty five billion

2428
01:54:24,439 --> 01:54:27,479
Speaker 1: dollar investment in the state of Israel, an indication that

2429
01:54:27,560 --> 01:54:31,000
Speaker 1: capital is engaged in their own self interested bds weighing

2430
01:54:31,080 --> 01:54:34,480
Speaker 1: the ever risking risks, ever rising risks of operating in

2431
01:54:34,600 --> 01:54:38,320
Speaker 1: Israel to be greater than the benefits. Even more trouble, though,

2432
01:54:38,360 --> 01:54:41,960
Speaker 1: could be ahead here again is Mondo Weiss. Israel's power gred,

2433
01:54:42,160 --> 01:54:44,840
Speaker 1: which has largely switched to natural gas, still depends on

2434
01:54:44,880 --> 01:54:47,400
Speaker 1: coal to supply demand. The biggest supplier of cold to

2435
01:54:47,440 --> 01:54:50,080
Speaker 1: Israel is Columbia, which announced that it would suspend coul

2436
01:54:50,120 --> 01:54:52,720
Speaker 1: shipments to Israel as long as the genocide was ongoing.

2437
01:54:53,040 --> 01:54:55,680
Speaker 1: After Colombia, the next two biggest suppliers are South Africa

2438
01:54:55,680 --> 01:54:59,440
Speaker 1: and Russia. Without reliable and continuous electricity, Israel will no

2439
01:54:59,520 --> 01:55:02,480
Speaker 1: longer be able to pretend to be a developed economy.

2440
01:55:03,040 --> 01:55:06,120
Speaker 1: So while the US will apparently never cut Israel off

2441
01:55:06,160 --> 01:55:09,120
Speaker 1: of literally anything, including the two thousand pound bombs that

2442
01:55:09,120 --> 01:55:12,360
Speaker 1: they used to drop on schools where displaced children are sheltering,

2443
01:55:12,760 --> 01:55:15,120
Speaker 1: the rest of the world apparently not so keen to

2444
01:55:15,160 --> 01:55:18,800
Speaker 1: continue doing business with this terrorist regime. There's another dynamic

2445
01:55:18,800 --> 01:55:20,880
Speaker 1: that's a little harder to quantify here, though it came

2446
01:55:20,960 --> 01:55:23,440
Speaker 1: up in our recent interview with an Israeli Zionist analyst,

2447
01:55:23,520 --> 01:55:26,040
Speaker 1: Isiel ben Ephraim, who we brought in to discuss the

2448
01:55:26,120 --> 01:55:28,560
Speaker 1: right wing riots that broke down in Israel to protect

2449
01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:31,880
Speaker 1: the right of Israeli soldiers to rape and torture palest

2450
01:55:31,880 --> 01:55:34,920
Speaker 1: to me and detainees. I asked Iel what this trend

2451
01:55:34,960 --> 01:55:37,240
Speaker 1: meant for the future of Israel, if they continue to

2452
01:55:37,320 --> 01:55:41,160
Speaker 1: drift towards lawlessness and a state governed overtly by Jewish supremacy.

2453
01:55:41,320 --> 01:55:43,600
Speaker 1: I was frankly a little bit shocked by his response.

2454
01:55:43,960 --> 01:55:46,000
Speaker 8: I think there's going to be a lot of people

2455
01:55:46,280 --> 01:55:49,760
Speaker 8: in Israel who if this continues to be the kind

2456
01:55:49,760 --> 01:55:53,280
Speaker 8: of government that they have in the long term will leave,

2457
01:55:53,720 --> 01:55:57,120
Speaker 8: and those will be the most productive members of society.

2458
01:55:57,480 --> 01:55:59,960
Speaker 8: Those will be the high tech leaders, those will be

2459
01:56:00,080 --> 01:56:05,320
Speaker 8: the professors, those will be the literati, and so on

2460
01:56:05,320 --> 01:56:07,360
Speaker 8: and so forth, which is something that I think the

2461
01:56:07,400 --> 01:56:10,360
Speaker 8: extreme right and Israel wants because that will help them

2462
01:56:10,680 --> 01:56:14,400
Speaker 8: run the country better. And there's an attempt to dismantle

2463
01:56:14,440 --> 01:56:17,360
Speaker 8: the Israeli judicial system because that's the one check in

2464
01:56:17,440 --> 01:56:20,920
Speaker 8: balance the Israeli system has against this kind of power.

2465
01:56:21,920 --> 01:56:24,160
Speaker 8: So right now, Israel, similar to a lot of other

2466
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:27,360
Speaker 8: countries in the West, the United States as an example,

2467
01:56:27,480 --> 01:56:30,200
Speaker 8: is having a battle for its soul. And I think

2468
01:56:30,200 --> 01:56:33,680
Speaker 8: if the liberal democratic forces in Israel lose, Israel will

2469
01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:35,720
Speaker 8: be lost. It's not going to be able to survive

2470
01:56:36,320 --> 01:56:38,320
Speaker 8: if it doesn't have allies in the world, and it's

2471
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:41,080
Speaker 8: going to be sanctioned by everyone, treated like a pariah state.

2472
01:56:41,760 --> 01:56:45,720
Speaker 8: That liberal part of the country is what kept Israel's

2473
01:56:45,720 --> 01:56:48,160
Speaker 8: part of the international community, and what kept it allied

2474
01:56:48,160 --> 01:56:50,120
Speaker 8: with the United States, and what kept it as a

2475
01:56:50,160 --> 01:56:53,440
Speaker 8: big trade partner for the EU. And if Israel loses that,

2476
01:56:53,840 --> 01:56:54,600
Speaker 8: it's not going to be.

2477
01:56:54,520 --> 01:56:55,320
Speaker 7: Able to survive.

2478
01:56:55,680 --> 01:56:58,840
Speaker 8: The extreme right fringe and the fundamentalists aren't going to

2479
01:56:58,880 --> 01:57:01,720
Speaker 8: be able to support the Israeli economy, aren't going to

2480
01:57:01,720 --> 01:57:03,960
Speaker 8: be able to supports very deciding not in the long term.

2481
01:57:04,280 --> 01:57:08,640
Speaker 8: Many many don't serve in the army. It's a disaster

2482
01:57:08,720 --> 01:57:10,640
Speaker 8: for Israel if these people take over, and this is

2483
01:57:10,640 --> 01:57:13,200
Speaker 8: a step towards taking over, like make no mistake, they're

2484
01:57:13,240 --> 01:57:16,200
Speaker 8: hindering the functioning of the state. If they completely take over,

2485
01:57:16,400 --> 01:57:19,040
Speaker 8: the state of Israel will not exist in the long term.

2486
01:57:19,120 --> 01:57:22,000
Speaker 8: And I don't think I think that's quite a possible outcome.

2487
01:57:22,200 --> 01:57:24,200
Speaker 1: So Chielle alludes there to the fact that the most

2488
01:57:24,240 --> 01:57:28,440
Speaker 1: conservative ultra orthodox members of Israeli society are increasingly represented

2489
01:57:28,560 --> 01:57:31,840
Speaker 1: in terms of governing ideology, but don't actually contribute too

2490
01:57:31,880 --> 01:57:34,480
Speaker 1: much to society. They tend to have large families, rely

2491
01:57:34,560 --> 01:57:38,280
Speaker 1: on government welfare, and receive a religious exemption from military service.

2492
01:57:38,600 --> 01:57:41,320
Speaker 1: The number supporting this dynamic, we're already getting kind of dicey,

2493
01:57:41,400 --> 01:57:43,480
Speaker 1: because this group has much higher birth rates than more

2494
01:57:43,560 --> 01:57:47,200
Speaker 1: secular Israeli Jews. If you see a significant brain drain

2495
01:57:47,520 --> 01:57:51,800
Speaker 1: due to unending war and overt fascism, according to shiel Quote,

2496
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:55,040
Speaker 1: the state of Israel will not exist in the long term.

2497
01:57:55,520 --> 01:57:58,919
Speaker 1: Bolstering this point, Mondo West quoted and Israeli economists professor

2498
01:57:59,040 --> 01:58:02,160
Speaker 1: Dan Ben David as saying that the Israeli economy is

2499
01:58:02,200 --> 01:58:04,800
Speaker 1: held together by three hundred thousand people, the senior staff

2500
01:58:04,800 --> 01:58:08,320
Speaker 1: and universities, tech companies and hospitals. Once a significant portion

2501
01:58:08,440 --> 01:58:11,080
Speaker 1: of those people leaves, he says, we won't become a

2502
01:58:11,120 --> 01:58:12,120
Speaker 1: third world country.

2503
01:58:12,320 --> 01:58:14,320
Speaker 3: We just won't be anymore.

2504
01:58:15,120 --> 01:58:18,720
Speaker 1: Has this exodus already begun? Difficult to say, and frankly,

2505
01:58:18,760 --> 01:58:21,000
Speaker 1: some of the data is really conflicting. But according to

2506
01:58:21,040 --> 01:58:24,040
Speaker 1: the Times of Israel, Israelis have already begun leaving the

2507
01:58:24,040 --> 01:58:27,680
Speaker 1: country prior to October seventh due to the net Nyahu

2508
01:58:27,800 --> 01:58:30,680
Speaker 1: government's extremism and attacks on the judiciary, which had led

2509
01:58:30,720 --> 01:58:33,880
Speaker 1: to a large protest movement for more secular elements of society.

2510
01:58:34,440 --> 01:58:38,320
Speaker 1: That outflow accelerated after October seventh, leading to about forty

2511
01:58:38,320 --> 01:58:42,240
Speaker 1: two thousand permanent departures from November through March of twenty

2512
01:58:42,280 --> 01:58:44,760
Speaker 1: twenty four, and one can only imagine what an all

2513
01:58:44,800 --> 01:58:47,960
Speaker 1: out worth Husbaland and or Iran could due to those

2514
01:58:48,040 --> 01:58:50,240
Speaker 1: numbers in a country where a significant minority of the

2515
01:58:50,240 --> 01:58:54,600
Speaker 1: population hold multiple passports. By enabling the worst of Israeli

2516
01:58:54,600 --> 01:58:58,600
Speaker 1: atrocities and excesses. Self proclaimed Zionist Joe Biden may have

2517
01:58:58,720 --> 01:59:01,640
Speaker 1: unintentionally helped to galvin as a force that could actually

2518
01:59:01,680 --> 01:59:05,280
Speaker 1: destroy the Israeli state. We may be watching in real

2519
01:59:05,320 --> 01:59:07,840
Speaker 1: time as Israel collapses under the weight of its own

2520
01:59:07,880 --> 01:59:12,120
Speaker 1: internal divides, capitals, aversion to risk, and the world's revulsion

2521
01:59:12,360 --> 01:59:16,600
Speaker 1: to apartheid and genocide. That's a show for today, guys.

2522
01:59:17,000 --> 01:59:19,400
Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in. Emily did a great job. Is

2523
01:59:19,400 --> 01:59:20,840
Speaker 1: always fun to get to talk to her. She and

2524
01:59:20,920 --> 01:59:23,320
Speaker 1: Ryan are going to be back with a great counterpoints tomorrow.

2525
01:59:23,560 --> 01:59:25,800
Speaker 1: Sager hopefully be feeling better and be back in his

2526
01:59:25,960 --> 01:59:27,800
Speaker 1: chair on Thursday, and I will see you then