1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: If you're going to Send Francisco or Seattle, you should 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: come to our live shows. 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 2: That's right, well done, Chuck. We are still selling tickets 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 2: to our live shows on January twenty fourth and twenty 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: six On January twenty fourth in Seattle at the Paramount 6 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: Theater and on January twenty sixth in San Francisco at 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: Sydney Goldstein Theater. Tickets are still available to come see us. 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: Hats off to Portland for selling out our show at 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: Revolution Hall already, and sorry to everybody who got shut out. 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: That's right. So where can they get tickets at our website? 11 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: Right? 12 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: Stuff youshould do dot com yeah. 13 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: Or linktree slash sysk. 14 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: We'll see everybody then. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, 15 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. 16 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 17 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, pushing us around as usual 18 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: for this episode of Stuff you Should. 19 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: Know, our second episode for us of the New Year. 20 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: And why didn't we save like a pretty happy one 21 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: to get going with. 22 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know, Probably because we knew 23 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 2: we were going to be so bummed out after Jonestown. 24 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 2: We needed something that was a pick me up. And 25 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 2: what's crazy is this story actually is a pick me 26 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 2: up compared to Jonestown. 27 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: Oh boy, that's tough to parse out. So thank you 28 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: Tolivia for diving into this tough story. And also this episode, 29 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: we want to issue a very big trigger warning because 30 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: in it we are going to talk about a very 31 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: bad man and some of the bad things he did, 32 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: which included sexual assault and some of which were with minors. 33 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: So trigger warning. Know that going in. There's no way 34 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: around it. 35 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: There's very few stories that have like a clear cut villain, 36 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: but this is one of them. And the villain who's 37 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: also the center of our story. The person at the 38 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: center of our story is a man named ken Rex McElroy. Yeah, 39 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: which I mean all you need to hear is that name, really, 40 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: I think, and it kind of just puts a weird 41 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: chill down your spine that you can't quite identify yet. 42 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a story that you may have heard 43 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 1: of before. There's no shortage of content about Ken McElroy. 44 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: There was a book written in nineteen eighty eight by 45 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: Harry McLain, a crime writer, called in Broad Daylight, You 46 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: Know What's Coming colon our murder in Skidmore, Missouri. There 47 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: was a documentary just a few years ago in twenty 48 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: nineteen called a documentary series actually called No One Saw 49 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: a Thing, of which I watched at the first episode. 50 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 2: How is it? I didn't get a chance to yet. 51 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: Well, we'll talk about it. It's okay. 52 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 2: It's got like a seven plus on IMDb. That's really 53 00:02:58,800 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: saying something. 54 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, Chuck gives it a six minus. 55 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: Okay, Still it's not too bad. 56 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: It's okay. I mean, not a ton of light was shed. 57 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: So maybe it's because if I went into it blind 58 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: it might have been a little better. 59 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 2: Gotcha. 60 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: But there's also a nineteen ninety one TV movie starring 61 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: Brian Denahey and Marcia gay Harden, which I actually I 62 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: watched a very bad YouTube version of it. Mostly I 63 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: scribbed through a little bit of it. But it's actually 64 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: not terrible for a nineteen ninety one TV movie, largely 65 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: because Brian Dennehey is perfectly cast and awesome. 66 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, he really is. I don't understand why they changed 67 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 2: the names. Did Harry MacLean change the names for in 68 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: Broad Daylight? 69 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: I didn't read the book, but I don't know. Sometimes 70 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: they do that with TV movies. Huh, well, regardlessly the innocent. 71 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: You know, I scrubbed ahead to the last probably thirty minutes, 72 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: so all the good stuff. 73 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: That's kind of all you need. 74 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 2: And you're right. Brian Denney was great and Marcia J. 75 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 2: Harden did a great job at the really important point. 76 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a tremendous actor, as was Denney. Rip Brian Denney. 77 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 2: So Ken Rex McElroy. He was from Skidmore, Missouri. That's 78 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: where this story takes place. He was the fifteenth of 79 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: sixteen kids. From what I saw, he was born in 80 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty four. And you can be the wealthiest person 81 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: in your state and have sixteen kids and you're still 82 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 2: going to be hard scrabble. Sure, his dad wasn't the 83 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: wealthiest person in the state. So the mcelroys grew up 84 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: kind of doing what they could to make their own way. 85 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: And Ken himself, I saw either he made it up 86 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: to age fifteen in school, which is a surprising statistic 87 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 2: to me after I know a little more about him. 88 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 2: I also saw that he was illiterate, which I would 89 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 2: definitely believe more than the fact that he made it 90 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 2: up to age fifteen in school. Either way, at a 91 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: young age, he he started taking up crime. You get 92 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: the impression not just out of necessity, but also probably 93 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 2: out of a certain amount of pleasure. 94 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was to frame it. And then nineteen forties. 95 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: He was born in thirty four, so by the time 96 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: he was criming, it was in nineteen forties. One thing 97 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: we should mention is, and I'm glad Livia dug this up, 98 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: and this is no way excusing any of his behaviors, 99 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: but when he was eighteen year years old, he was 100 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 1: a working construction and there was an accident where some 101 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: very heavy cribbing fell about thirty feet and hit him 102 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: in the head. He had a construction helmet, but it 103 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: cut his scalp, so it clearly, you know, provided minimal protection. 104 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: And he said that he had a steel plate implanted 105 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: and had episodes of blackout episodes and pain throughout the 106 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: rest of his life. And it should be noted that 107 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: one common denominator in many cases of you know, sick 108 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: people who do awful things is head injury when they're younger, 109 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: so that very well may have been the case. Again, 110 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: not excusing anything he did, but we're trying to paint 111 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: a full picture here. 112 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 2: He was like a modern day Phineas Gage. 113 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And like you said, it seemed like he 114 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: enjoyed criming from a young age. He was a pretty 115 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: I mean this is before the accident, even he was 116 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: a pretty disturbed young man. 117 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, I have to say, yeah, I would say 118 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 2: I would definitely agree with that. But he did do stuff. 119 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 2: He wasn't just like a lay about like. He was 120 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: a kind of an industrious criminal. He also trained hunting dogs. 121 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: He was a dealer of antiques, a buyer and seller, 122 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: but more than anything, he was a cattle wrestler. Apparently, 123 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 2: the year before his death, the county that Skidaways in 124 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: our Skidmores and not a Way county, the cattle thefts 125 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 2: were six times that of any other place in the state. 126 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: It led the state in cattle thefts, and apparently a 127 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 2: lot of that was Ken McElroy. He was flush with cash. 128 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 2: He would buy new cars, he could support. He ended 129 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: up having at least ten kids could support them all. 130 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: He had a lot of money and all of it 131 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 2: essentially was from crime. Because he had a tiny little 132 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: farm and he wasn't making much of any money off 133 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: of that. He was making it from stealing. 134 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and when we say he had a lot of money, 135 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: it's not the kind of it's not wealth. He had 136 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: the kind of money for a criminal in the nineteen 137 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: sixties and Skidmore, Missouri. 138 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: He had skid More money. 139 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is to say, oh, I hope there's no 140 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: skid Marians. There's a couple hundred of them, well listening 141 00:07:59,240 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: to us. 142 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just assume the whole town listens to us. 143 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: Anyway, they're probably so sick of the story. But he's 144 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: the kind of money guy that like he always had 145 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: like a few grand in his pocket with a big, 146 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: fat money roll, like that kind of dude. He was 147 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: a big guy. He was like six two or sixty three, 148 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: had this sort of here again kind of like Jim 149 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: Jones men of the time, had this jet black hair 150 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: and these huge side burns. He was imposing. But he 151 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: picked on people smaller than him. He picked on women 152 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: and children and young girls and took advantage of all 153 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: these people. And he was arrested and charged at least 154 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: twenty one times without being convicted. And if you're thinking, like, 155 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: how in the world does that happen? When people know 156 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: he's committing crimes, he's getting arrested of these committing these crimes. 157 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:57,239 Speaker 1: It's because he had a very, I guess good slippery 158 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: attorney named Richard Jean mcfahten who was supposedly a mob 159 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: attorney in Kansas City. And upon their first meeting, he 160 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: was like, you can't afford me, and McElroy said, let 161 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: me be the judge of that, pulled out that big 162 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: fat roll from his pocket, threw it on the desk, 163 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: and McFadden was delighted to have him as a cash 164 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: paying client who listened to him. 165 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, so McFadden was so was so good at getting 166 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 2: them off. He well, actually they worked together. McFadden was 167 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: good at getting him off, but it was he probably 168 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 2: wouldn't have been nearly as successful as Ken McElroy hadn't 169 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: have been also a very active participant in getting himself off. 170 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: So Gene McFadden would get delay after delay, all these 171 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: procedural delays to just really put as much time between 172 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 2: Ken McElroy's arrest and the actual trial date as possible, 173 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 2: and then Ken McElroy would get busy intimidating witnesses, and 174 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: if it got closer and closer to trial and in 175 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 2: a jury wasn't paneled. He would intimidate the jurors. He 176 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 2: would threaten their lives. He would threaten the lives of 177 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 2: their families. He would threaten to burn their houses down. 178 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 2: He would threaten to kill them. He would threaten not 179 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 2: just with words, he would intimidate them by parking in 180 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 2: their driveways, by brandishing guns at them, by shooting guns 181 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 2: in the air, sometimes in the night, outside of their house, 182 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 2: like just It would take a couple of these for 183 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: the average person to be like, I can't this is 184 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 2: not what I've signed up for. This guy is scaring 185 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: me to death. Some people lasted longer than others, but 186 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,239 Speaker 2: most of the time, almost in every single time, eventually 187 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 2: he would intimidate enough of the witnesses that the cases 188 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 2: would fall apart. And that is how he became what 189 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: Crime Library referred to as this teflon coated hicic. 190 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely like he shot a guy in the stomach 191 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: in July of nineteen seventy six, a guy named Romayne Henry. 192 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: And yes, you heard me right, Romaine Farmer spelled exactly 193 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: like the lettuce? Was he named after the lettuce? Because 194 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: was he a lettuce farmer? 195 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: I don't know. Did they farm letus in Missouri. 196 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: They did in you in Arizona, I think just. 197 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 2: For the sake of this story. Yes, he absolutely was 198 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 2: a Romaine Lettuce farmer. His parents raised him to be. 199 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: One and named him after that Lettuce. So he was 200 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: shot in the stomach with a shotgun, was not killed, 201 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: and it got away with it, you know. In the documentary, 202 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: like Romaine Henry pulls up his shirt and he's like, 203 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: here's where he shot me, and court witnesses he you know, 204 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: like you said earlier, he was one of his side hustles, 205 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: was raising and training and selling hunting dogs, and he 206 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: was well liked by some people, like the people that 207 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: he dealt with with these hunting dogs. Other crime type 208 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: people liked him. So he had this stable of dudes 209 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: that would go to court and testify on his behalf 210 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: and provide him with alibis and say, like, he didn't 211 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: shoot him in the stomach. He was with us at 212 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: the time of the shooting. So he got away with 213 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: shooting Romayne Henry in the stomach with a shotgun. Even. 214 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just to make sure that you understand what 215 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 2: kind of person Kim McElroy was the reason that he 216 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: shot Romayne Henry in the stomach was because Romayne Henry 217 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 2: approached him and said, hey, will you please not shoot 218 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 2: pheasants out of season on my land anymore? And Kim 219 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: McElroy responded by shooting him in the stomach because he 220 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: told him basically to stop shooting birds illegally on that 221 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 2: man's land. 222 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it didn't matter who you were. There was a cop, 223 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: even a highway patrolman named Richard Stratton hashtag hero. Yeah 224 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: who had you know? Plenty of run ends, obviously with 225 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: McElroy because like you said, this is a town of 226 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: you know, a few hundred people at the time. I 227 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 1: think yep, maybe like four or five hundred again, and 228 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: so everyone knew this guy, including obviously Richard Stratton, and 229 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: he had a bunch of run ins, And so McElroy 230 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: started threatening his home and his family. One day, his wife, 231 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: Margaret was on our way to church. She got in 232 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: the car to go to church and McRoy walks up 233 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: to the car, puts a shotgun in her face. And 234 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: he did that to cops, wives, he did it to judges. 235 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,599 Speaker 1: The county magistrate, Montgomery Wilson, was so fearful that he 236 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: wouldn't take these cases. He would have them move to 237 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: other nearby counties like he was. People called him the 238 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: town bully, but that is the kindest way to describe him, 239 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 1: because he was also a child molester and rapist. 240 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, I say we take a break and then come 241 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 2: back and talk about this, all. 242 00:13:45,520 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: Right, We'll be right back, all right. So when we 243 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: left off, I leveled a pretty serious allegation, which is 244 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: absolutely true, that Ken McElroy was a child molester and rapist. 245 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: And this is one hundred percent true. The story gets 246 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: very twisted and convoluted here, but it's kind of hard 247 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: to follow along because he was married and then had 248 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: a girlfriend and a wife at the same time, but 249 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: then another one and then another. Wooden would come in 250 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: and they're overlapping, and he's having kids with most of them, 251 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: and it gets very confusing. But like you said, he 252 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: fathered ten kids. A lot of them were with underage girls. 253 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: He got married for the first time in nineteen fifty 254 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: two when he was eighteen and his wife, Alita was sixteen, 255 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: and he is not like he calmed down or anything. 256 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: He would pray and stalk in groom girls as young 257 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: as twelve thirteen years old, one of which was a 258 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: fifteen year old name Sharon, and they it was sort 259 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: of a familiar pattern where he would he would groom 260 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: and stalk these young teenage girls. He would abuse them, 261 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: he would rape them and threaten them with death and 262 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: somehow end up with them and not not somehow through 263 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: coercion and threaten intimidation. 264 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he would get so he would be married already, 265 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 2: and like you said, he'd be stalking and raping and 266 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 2: abusing some other younger girl at the same time. And 267 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 2: then inevitably, when charges were about to be brought against 268 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 2: him because of his like rape and abuse and in 269 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: one case shooting of one of the girls, he would 270 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 2: he would convince them to marry him. He would go 271 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: to his wife and be like, we have to get 272 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 2: divorced because I got to marry this girl so that 273 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: she won't testify against me. And he would be successful. 274 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 2: And if they refused at first, he would use those 275 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 2: same tactics that he used to intimidate witnesses to intimidate 276 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: these girls into marrying him and becoming his wife. And 277 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 2: then astoundingly, he would go find a younger girl and 278 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 2: start the whole thing over again. Like this guy got 279 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 2: married more than once to keep the girl that he 280 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 2: was raping from testifying against him, because back then a 281 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 2: wife couldn't testify against her husband. 282 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean, we don't need to get into 283 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: every single one of those details, but suffice it to 284 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: say this was happening over and over and over remarkably sometimes. 285 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: You know. Obviously, these girls parents would put up a 286 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: fight and get involved, and he would intimidate and threaten 287 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: them to the point where at one point he and 288 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: this is the wife he had sort of when the 289 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: final incident went down. Trina McLeod, who he got together with, 290 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: this just so sick. When she was twelve or thirteen 291 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: year years old, was like picking her up from the 292 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: school bus. Yeah, and school officials were like, something's going 293 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: on with this creep. No one ever did anything, got 294 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: her pregnant at fourteen, and moved her into the house 295 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: he shared with the previous young girl that he was with. 296 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: So he had a son with Trina in nineteen seventy three, 297 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: and a couple of others with this young girl, Alice, 298 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 1: and went to Trina's parents' house. They obviously are saying like, 299 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: you can't keep our daughter like this, and he held 300 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: them back at gunpoint, brought the girls back, continue to 301 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: abuse them, and then eventually he would burn down the 302 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: house of Trina McLeod's parents and shoot and kill their 303 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: family dog. Yeah, is he a bad enough guy at 304 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: this point? All right, dear listener. 305 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 2: Apparently he somehow Trina ended up being treated by a 306 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 2: doctor somewhere or other. The doctor got the story out 307 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 2: of her, and the doctor was like, wait, can you 308 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 2: tell me all that one more time? And I guess 309 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 2: she did. And the doctor called the authorities, and this 310 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: time McElroy was in a lot of trouble and they 311 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 2: took Trina to child services and took her to a 312 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 2: family foster, a foster family, and he started stalking the 313 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 2: foster family and stalking their biological kids and threatening to 314 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 2: rape and kill them. And that foster family would not 315 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 2: give in. They were protecting Trina up until the time. 316 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 2: Trina's like, all right, I forgive you. I'm going back 317 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 2: to you, and I'm sure that foster family is like, 318 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 2: oh my god, I can't believe Yeah, I can't believe this, 319 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 2: Like can you can't make that decision? And she did 320 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 2: and he got away with it yet again because he 321 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 2: got her to marry him to keep her from being 322 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 2: able to even testify against her and Gene McFadden in 323 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 2: a show of just how sleazy lawyers can be, served 324 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 2: as the way witness to their wedding. I think she 325 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 2: was fifteen at the time, and at the end of 326 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 2: the ceremony got her to sign a document saying all 327 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 2: the things she told that doctor were lies and they 328 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 2: lived as husband and wife. 329 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: That's right. So this is this was his final wife, 330 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: young trinam Cloud. He apparently got her parents because you know, 331 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: you needed to have permission to get married at that age, 332 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: and her parents acquiesced because he threatened to burn down 333 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: the new house that they either bought or built. And 334 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: this is where I get to the documentary, like a 335 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: lot of it should be taken with a grain of salt, 336 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: because some of the local townspeople they interview are clearly 337 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: sort of just maybe don't have all the facts straight. 338 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: Because someone in that documentary said that he burned their 339 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: house down again and shot their other new dog, and 340 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: I didn't see anywhere else where that happened. I think 341 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: it was just a threat or whatever. 342 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 2: He killed a monkey too, right, That's what I heard. 343 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: Deal with the documentary. So this is the this is 344 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: going on. He's terrorizing this town. Everyone knows he's an 345 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: awful guy. He's just can't be overstated what an awful 346 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: creep that he is. And I mean creep isn't even 347 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: that's way too soft to describe a guy like this. Finally, 348 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty he sort of pushes his luck. As 349 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: Livia would call this section, things have kind of come 350 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: a little bit to a head. They're these local shopkeepers. 351 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: They ran the B and B grocery there in town 352 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: Lois and Earnest bow Bowen Camp and they apparently his 353 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: you know, his kids would go in there and chop 354 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: lifts all the time, his very young kids. And one 355 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: of his young daughters, her name was Tonya or Tanya, 356 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: I'm not sure how that was pronounced. 357 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 2: Na. 358 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: Tanya was like four years old and was stealing candy 359 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: from the store. They confronted this young girl, and of 360 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: course McElroy wouldn't stand for that, so he starts up 361 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: with his usual routine, parking outside their store, staring them down, 362 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: brandishing a shotgun and carrying it around with him. And 363 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: in July of that year, McElroy approached bo Bowen Camp 364 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: the grocery store owner. They had a brief conversation and 365 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 1: he shot this seventy year old man through the neck again, 366 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: not killing him, but wounding him. 367 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so Bo and Lois Bowen Camp were like 368 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 2: beloved in the town. Oh yeah, this is a big deal. 369 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 2: He had assaulted and a beloved elderly shopkeeper, grocer who 370 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: fed the town, and even McElroy knew it was a 371 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 2: big deal. He fled, he tried to get out of 372 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 2: the state. And you mentioned Richard Stratton, the Missouri Highway 373 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 2: patrolman who had run ins over and over and over 374 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 2: again with Ken McElroy. Well, he was out on patrol 375 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 2: night when that happened or that day, I guess, and 376 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 2: he got the all points bulletin er to be on 377 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 2: the lookout for Ken McElroy. And at the time, the 378 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 2: Sheriff's office, the rest of the Highway patrol they were 379 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 2: setting up roadblocks, looking on every highway that they could 380 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 2: for Ken McElroy. But Richard Stratton said, no, I know 381 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 2: this guy. He's got a police scanner. He knows exactly 382 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: where they are. He's going to take every back road 383 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 2: he confined to get to Kansas and get out of 384 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 2: the state and lay low for a while, and Richard 385 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 2: Stratton said, I know he's going to have to go 386 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 2: through Fillmore, Missouri to get to Kansas, and I'm going 387 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 2: to stake that place out. And in short order, Ken 388 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 2: McElroy came driving through in his Silverado with Trina in 389 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 2: the seat and he ended up getting busted by Richard Stratton. 390 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 2: He was caught. And this again even he knew this 391 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 2: one was a big deal. 392 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he finally was taken into custody this time. 393 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: He I don't know if he just had an instinct 394 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: that there was probably no way out of this one, 395 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: but he hired his trusteelawyer again McFadden, who said, all right, 396 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: let's move this thing to Harrison County first of all, 397 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: and here's our plan is. We're going to say that 398 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: this was a dispute with Bowen Camp. This this sort 399 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: of argument you guys had over your daughter's stealing, and 400 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: that he pulled a knife on you and that it 401 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: was self defense and you were you were forced to 402 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: do that. He was still using his you know, typical 403 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: playbook intimidation tactics on the Bowen Camps, but they refused 404 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: to budget, which was great so that was their that 405 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: was their defense. We should also mention while this is 406 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: going on, he continues his reign of terror on the town. 407 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: There's a there was a Christian church whose minister was 408 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: Tim Warren. And if you don't know anything about sort 409 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: of small town actually probably even larger town ministers. Part 410 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: of their job they don't just get up there and 411 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: preach on Sundays, is they have to minister to the 412 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: congregation in their community. So they will do things. Preachers 413 00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: and ministers will like come and check in on people 414 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: they're sick. They will visit people in the hospital if 415 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: they're injured or you know, or having some troubles. And 416 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 1: this is what Tim Warren was doing when he checked 417 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: in on, or had planned to check in on Lois 418 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: Bowen Camp and he got a call saying, don't go 419 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: see old man Bowen Camp. It's gonna be bad news 420 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: for you. He did it under cover by borrowing a 421 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: friend's truck and going in that but got a call 422 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: was like, hey, I knew that that was you there 423 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: within your friend's truck. Nice try and if you do 424 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: this again, I'm going to rape and murder your wife. 425 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the reverend, the local reverend, Reverend Lovejoy is 426 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 2: just told that his wife is going to be raped 427 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 2: and murdered. 428 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: Right, that's right. 429 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 2: I didn't get what the point of that was, did you. 430 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 2: I didn't see any interpretation of that. I just saw 431 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 2: it explained or described. I never saw it explained. 432 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: Well, I think just anyone sort of on the Bowen 433 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: Camp side, because who knows, like the reverend could have 434 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: been and called to testify or something. 435 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 2: He knows, I got you. 436 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: That makes me think he was just trying to shut 437 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: it all down, kind of like with the town marshall. 438 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, so the town marshal nice setup. David Dunbar 439 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 2: was twenty four at the time, and if you were 440 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 2: town marshall of Skidmore, you not only had to call 441 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 2: the sheriff when there was an actual, real, real trouble 442 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 2: because you weren't really allowed to do anything. You had 443 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 2: to provide your own gun. The city would pay for 444 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 2: your ammunition, but you had to provide your own gun. 445 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 2: And David Dunbar was like, I don't even care about 446 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 2: this job. I took this job because I wanted to 447 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 2: win a bet that I had with my buddy for 448 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 2: a case of beer, right, and so In short order, 449 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 2: he gets pulled into this whole thing by Ken McElroy, 450 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 2: who pulls a gun on him, holds him at gunpoint. 451 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 2: I saw it for like twenty minutes at the Punkin Festival. 452 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, not punkin Junkin'. 453 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: No, the Punkin Festival or the Punkin show. That's what 454 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 2: I saw it as. 455 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, they chunked in no punks, yes. 456 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 2: No, but David Dunbar. David Dunbar did say like, that's 457 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: it for me, man, I really didn't care that much 458 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 2: about this job anyway. I'm not going to stand up 459 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 2: to Ken McElroy. You guys need to find yourself another 460 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 2: marshal and they said, fine, we will, and then they couldn't. 461 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 2: So the town was without a marshall even for a 462 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 2: little while. 463 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: They probably didn't need one. 464 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't sound like it was very effective 465 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 2: as positions go. And also the other thing I said, 466 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 2: they need to call the sheriff. I saw someone intimate 467 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 2: that the sheriff may not have either taken Ken McElroy 468 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 2: and the trouble he caused seriously, or he may have 469 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 2: been a friend or a sympathetic ally or something to 470 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 2: Ken McElroy, because apparently he was not super responsive to 471 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 2: Ken McElroy trouble calls. 472 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: You know, he was interviewed in this documentary. He certainly 473 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: didn't seem sympathetic. He might have been intimidated as well. 474 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that's possible. I wouldn't blame him, frankly. 475 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: So this takes more than a year, I'm sorry, close 476 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: to a year to come to trial because of all 477 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: the delays that you know, McFadden, that's his game. Finally 478 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: it does and there's another green. Like almost everyone in 479 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: this story seems like they were like very young at 480 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah. The prosecutor, his name was David Baird. 481 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: He was a super young attorney. He was the county 482 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: prosecutor so named, just a few months earlier, and all 483 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: of a sudden, this kid is charged with prosecuting the case. 484 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,360 Speaker 1: He convicted him of second degree assault and sentenced him 485 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: to two years in jail. And this was the very 486 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: first conviction after this year's long reign of terror on 487 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: this town that he faced. Of course, McFadden appealed. The 488 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: judge said you're out on forty thousand dollars bail, and 489 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: Baird said, oh, it sounds fine to me. 490 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, So like after shooting Bo Bo and Camp getting 491 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 2: caught by the highway patrol, he gets let out on 492 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 2: forty thousand dollars bond, which he probably paid his bail 493 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 2: in cash from his pocket, and the town was like, 494 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,479 Speaker 2: you've got to be kidding me, Like you let this 495 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 2: guy free. Okay, we will will hang in there. We're 496 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 2: just gonna ride this out. And almost immediately Ken McRoy 497 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 2: was like, how can I get my bond revoked? I know, 498 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 2: I'll go show up at the local tavern in Skidmore, 499 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 2: the DNG Tavern, and I'll bring a M one carbine 500 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 2: rifle with bayonet on me, and I'll talk about how 501 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 2: I'm going to use it to finish off Bo Bowen 502 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 2: Camp in front of everybody in the bar. And that's 503 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 2: exactly what he did. And there just happened to be 504 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 2: a couple of brave souls. One of them was Pete Ward, 505 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 2: I think it was he and his sons who went 506 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 2: and fo like confronted him about it and then went 507 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 2: and filed the complaint and said this guy needs his 508 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 2: bond revoked, And a bond hearing was set up ten 509 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 2: days from then, and that set up all of the 510 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 2: machinations that were now going to bring this story to 511 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 2: its climax? Is it time for ad break? Have we 512 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 2: had a second one? 513 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: I mean, if that's not a perfect setup for ad breakman, 514 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: we've never had one. 515 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 2: So I said that Ken McElroy has basically just brandished 516 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 2: an arm. He's walking around town talking about he's going 517 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 2: to finish off the guy he's been now convicted of assaulting. 518 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 2: But he's out on bail, and Pete Ward and his 519 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 2: sons go file a complaint and a bond hearing to 520 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 2: see if his bond should be revoked is set up 521 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 2: for ten days, and those ten days pass, and on 522 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 2: the tenth day, the day of his bond hearing, a 523 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 2: group of farmers around town who have just had it 524 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 2: up to here with Ken McElroy come to the American 525 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 2: Legion Hall to basically go to court with Pete Ward 526 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 2: and Bobo and Camp and show solidarity but also show 527 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 2: that these guys are protected. You better not mess with them. 528 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. By most accounts, it was most of the 529 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: adults in the town were at this American Legion Hall meeting. 530 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: I think there were like a little over one hundred 531 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: adults maybe living there, and it seemed like eighty of 532 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: them were at this American Legion Hall meeting. 533 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a lot of people there. 534 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: So they find out there that McFadden had gotten that 535 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: hearing delayed, that bond hearing delayed for ten more days, 536 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: so instead of July tenth, it's going to be July twentieth. 537 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: They called the sheriff Danny EST's in that we talked about, 538 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: and he basically said, you know, there's nothing that we 539 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: can do about it. And this is where I think 540 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: that maybe I don't think he was friendly to McElroy. 541 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: I think he was just a law about biting sheriff 542 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: that was like, you know, what do you want to do, 543 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: like go kill this guy in the street, Like, we 544 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: can't do that. All we can do is keep tabs 545 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: on this guy and you know, stick together. It is 546 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: probably a good idea. So they said, that's a great idea. 547 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: We should form a large group and stalk him, follow 548 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: him around. Their strengthen numbers if we get enough of 549 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: us together, Like what's this guy gonna do? Kill all 550 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: of us? There are some people that were at this 551 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: meeting that was like, you know, no one was talking 552 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: about doing anything more than that. Other people said, yeah, 553 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: there were some people that were so you know, pissed 554 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: off about all this, that were like, we need to 555 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: take matters into our own hands, Vigilanti style. And they 556 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: found out at this meeting that he's back in town 557 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: with his wife. They went to the tavern, the DNG tavern, 558 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: still morning, mind you. They're in there drinking and they 559 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: all go down there. They walk in there as a 560 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: group and fill this tavern about fifty to sixty people, 561 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: and it's clear what's going on. McElroy would not be intimidated. 562 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: He did leave, but he apparently just sort of thumbed 563 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: his nose in their faces, bought a six pack to go, 564 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: and was like, you know, let's get out of here, Trina, 565 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: and walked out. 566 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, so this crowd was like, okay, I kind of 567 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 2: like this following this guy around, watching his every step thing, 568 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 2: And they actually walked out of the bar with him, 569 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 2: and supposedly there was between thirty and sixty people. Some 570 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 2: people had cleared out. Romayne Henry, who meet shot in 571 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 2: the stomach before, said that he sensed that this crowd 572 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 2: was possibly out for blood and he didn't want to 573 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: have anything to do with it, so he laughed. So 574 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 2: not everybody who was in the VFW Hall or the 575 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 2: American Legion Hall was in the parking lot of the 576 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 2: D ANDNG tavern, but a significant number of people were 577 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 2: and they had Ken McElroy and Trina surrounded in Ken 578 00:32:54,920 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 2: McElroy Silverado. Ken McElroy apparent lee had the car turned on, 579 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 2: still had him park. He pulled out a cigarette and 580 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 2: I saw that he either had just lit it or 581 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 2: was about to light it when somebody shot him in 582 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 2: the head with a high powered hunting rifle and then 583 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 2: followed that up with a shot to the neck, with 584 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 2: Trina right next to him, who was suddenly covered in 585 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 2: his blood. 586 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, through the back wind shield of the pickup truck, 587 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: I imagine instantly killed him with that first shot. His 588 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: foot slams on the gas and this thing is revving 589 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: at like full bore. This old truck starts smoking and 590 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: eventually blows the engine and it just goes silent. Trina 591 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: apparently urinated herself, was initially told to stay in the 592 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: car or she would be killed two and then gets 593 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: hustled out of this truck into a nearby bank, and 594 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: a bunch of more shooting happens until the shooting stops. 595 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: It's about twenty seconds worth of shooting. People go up 596 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: peek in this truck. McElroy is hunched over. No one 597 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: helps the guy at all, and in the end they 598 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: figure out he was hit by two different bullet types, 599 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: so two different guns had actually made contact with his body, 600 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: two different bullets. So, you know, in the documentary again 601 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: there were people that were like, you know, five or 602 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: six people shot him, three or four people shot him, 603 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: like everyone sort of got their own story, but as 604 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: far as the you know, autopsy goes, there were two 605 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: different calibers of bullet. 606 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, because here's the twist to this whole story. We 607 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 2: don't know at the very least, the law can't say 608 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 2: who killed Kim McElroy. They were between thirty to sixty 609 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,720 Speaker 2: people who were standing right there when he was killed 610 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 2: from several feet away, and no no one saw a thing. 611 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 2: The town circled the wagons and clammed up to this. 612 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: Day, Yeah, the town fully cleared out right after that, 613 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: and like he was just sitting there alone in the 614 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: middle of town, dead in his truck. Apparently they went 615 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: into some local businesses in this One woman in the 616 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: documentary said, we were just sort of hanging out in there, 617 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: and someone came in and said it's over. You can 618 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: sleep tonight. Now just stand behind us. 619 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they did, man, I mean they did the 620 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 2: law I saw. Depending on who you ask, the law 621 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 2: took this very seriously like any other murder, and investigated 622 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 2: and tried to prosecute it. Others are like, yeah, the 623 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 2: local law didn't try that hard because everybody knew that 624 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 2: this was actually justice, even though it was a grotesque 625 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 2: form of justice. 626 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. 627 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 2: Either way, no one was ever prosecuted. No one was 628 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 2: even ever arrested or charged with the murder of Ken 629 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 2: mackleroy because not a single witness would crack. There was 630 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 2: apparently one witness who shortly after said that they saw 631 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 2: a man named del Clement and another man speed off 632 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 2: very quickly right after the shooting, and that person apparently said, oh, 633 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I was mistaken. That's the closest the cops 634 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:25,800 Speaker 2: got to a witness statement about who may have shot 635 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 2: Ken McElroy. No one would say anything. Some people were 636 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 2: interviewed five to six times. Yeah, and no one cracked. 637 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 2: They would not crack. And yet whoever said that they 638 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 2: saw del Clement speed off was probably telling the truth 639 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 2: because Trina Ken's wife, who by this time is twenty 640 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 2: four and looks a lot like somebody who would have 641 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 2: been friends with Eileen Warnos, it says that she turned 642 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 2: around right before the shooting started and saw very clearly 643 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,240 Speaker 2: Dell Clement, owner co owner of the DG TAB, taking 644 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 2: aim and shooting Ken McElroy in the head with his 645 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 2: deer rifle. 646 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was not only the owner of the tavern, 647 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: but he had a livestock that had been pilfered. Apparently 648 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: it was a big hot head, and I get the 649 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,800 Speaker 1: sense took great pleasure in pulling that trigger, as the 650 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: sense I got. There was a lady in the documentary 651 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: and again this is the grain of salt, that said 652 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 1: that the main gun was thrown in a river. So 653 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, very interesting. I hadn't heard that 654 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,800 Speaker 1: anywhere else. But she also said right after that she 655 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: heard that they had McElroy's head in a head somewhere 656 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 1: and a freezer thing. So they couldn't do like more, 657 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: I guess bullet ballistics work or whatever. 658 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, you couldn't find it because it was stolen by 659 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 2: a monkey. 660 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that happened. There was another guy 661 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: in there named Britt Small, and I get the feeling 662 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: they just kind of gathered up whoever was still around 663 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: and was like, you know, talk to me. And Britt 664 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: was a local guy, Vietnam veteran. He was like, you 665 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: know what, the only mistake they made is that they 666 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 1: let Trina live. I would have killed him in his driveway. 667 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,399 Speaker 1: I would have ambushed them, both, killed her and him 668 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,439 Speaker 1: and burned his house down. That's what I would have done. 669 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 2: Well, she if you read newspaper accounts, like immediately after, 670 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 2: the Kansas City Star had a couple of articles like 671 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 2: the week after like she's scared to death or she 672 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 2: sounded scared to death that she was going to be next, 673 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 2: or that her kids were going to be murdered. And 674 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 2: then of course the townspeople that they interviewed for the 675 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 2: same article are like, no one wishes her and ill 676 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 2: will right, you know, she's not in any danger, but 677 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 2: she swore that she was told to stay out of Skidmore, 678 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 2: doon't ever come back, or else she was going to 679 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 2: get it and her kids would be after that. It's 680 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,399 Speaker 2: I don't know. It probably just depends on which town 681 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 2: person you talk to. 682 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: I mean, both things can be true, they could have 683 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: felt like she was a victim, but also please leave. 684 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And apparently when she was hustled off to 685 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 2: the bank, whoever did that saved her life because even 686 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 2: if they hadn't have been aiming for she probably would 687 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 2: have gotten hip by a straight bullet after that second round. 688 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,279 Speaker 2: But when she was hustled at the bank, there was 689 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 2: like a crowd, like you said to people there that 690 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 2: seemed to be just sitting there watching, like people knew 691 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 2: what was about to happen or what was going down. 692 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 2: And she said they didn't need to do them like that, 693 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 2: and someone said they had no choice. So even if 694 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 2: you didn't agree with that mob, justice that had taken place, 695 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,839 Speaker 2: and you were a Skidmore resident, at the very least 696 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 2: you weren't about to turn on your fellow townspeople, certainly 697 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 2: not for the likes of somebody like Ken McElroy or Trina. 698 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 1: Yeah. And in the end, you know, they couldn't with 699 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: only Trina's word, there was nothing they could do that 700 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: young Prosecutor Baird and the FBI said, you know, this 701 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: is all we've got. We can't move forward. Everyone else 702 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: is saying they don't know what happened. The FBI closed 703 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: their investigation on September two, nineteen eighty two, and I 704 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: believe the share off. I'm sorry. The LEAs chief how 705 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: Riddle was running the investigation, and he said, you know, 706 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: he was really trying to get this case to go 707 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: to trial because he's he is a law enforcement officer. 708 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: And they weren't all like great mob justice, you know, 709 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: they're like, we we should have handled it to begin with, 710 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: but you certainly can't handle it this way. And he 711 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: said it was the most frustrating case of his career 712 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: and basically, like this town got away with murder. 713 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and if the local law enforcement didn't work hard enough, 714 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 2: that was par for the course. Because if there was 715 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 2: any theme to this aside from this horrible bully, it 716 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,919 Speaker 2: was the local institutions failing the community time after time 717 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 2: after time after time for any number of reasons because 718 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,799 Speaker 2: they were intimidated, because they were crupt, who knows, but 719 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 2: that was like the subtext of this whole thing is 720 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 2: that this community essentially had to take matters into their 721 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 2: own hands or else this guy was going to eventually 722 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 2: kill somebody, and they just decided that that was not 723 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 2: going to happen. They were going to stop before it happened, 724 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,839 Speaker 2: so it's tough to fault them for what they did. 725 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 2: Even though I don't agree with that. Still I understand 726 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 2: why they did it well. 727 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: I think you cannot agree with mob justice and also 728 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: say the town of Skidmore in the world was probably 729 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: better off without this child rapist walking around. 730 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you're right. I like your theories. I'm going 731 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 2: to subscribe to your newsletter. 732 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 1: So as for Clement, the supposed one of the supposed shooters, 733 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: he never said a thing about it. He died in 734 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,800 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. Trina in nineteen eighty five filed 735 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: a wrongful death civil case against the mayor, Clement, and 736 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: the sheriff for five million bucks, settled for seventeen thousand, 737 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: six hundred. The defendants didn't have to admit to any wrongdoing. 738 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: They just wanted it to go away. She got remarried 739 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 1: and a couple of years before that in nineteen eighty three, 740 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: so two years after the killing, and she died in 741 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: twenty twelve. And you know, there was no mention of 742 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 1: that life of hers in her obituary. I think she 743 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: really put it behind her, and I hope at some point, 744 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:14,879 Speaker 1: you know, there are interviews with her. That's the one 745 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: interesting thing about the doc, Like not too long after 746 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: their interviews with Trina McLeod. I would hope that at 747 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,240 Speaker 1: some point she realized that she was a victim. 748 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 749 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: I hope so too, and came to on that. 750 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 2: But who knows, because I mean, you there's a there's 751 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 2: a certain amount of like grudging admiration you have for 752 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 2: at the very least. It's like, man, this girl is 753 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 2: so twisted. She was like a really ardent defendant of 754 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 2: her husband's reputation and honor and memory and like really 755 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 2: went would she was really like mad that they had 756 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 2: killed him. 757 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 758 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 2: One other detail I saw was that she offered a 759 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 2: five thousand dollar reward for information about who killed them. 760 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 2: Somebody had come forward, but she didn't have five thousand dollars. 761 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 2: She was putting it up against the movie rights. She 762 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 2: presumed she would eventually be paid for. Oh interesting, Yeah, 763 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 2: so I'm not sure. I don't think anybody would have 764 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 2: taken the five grand anyway, but certainly not a phantom 765 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,360 Speaker 2: five grand that didn't actually exist yet. 766 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. As for the attorney, he was always like he 767 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 1: was never like, you know, I really regret representing that 768 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,799 Speaker 1: dirt bag. He was pretty proud of his work. He 769 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: had a long career as a lobbyist working in the 770 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:39,279 Speaker 1: legislature there in Missouri, and apparently would like buy copies 771 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 1: of McLean's book and have McLean sign them and hand 772 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 1: them out to all the delegates in the state Senate. 773 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: He died in twenty twelve, Like I said, very proud 774 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:53,640 Speaker 1: of his work. And Stratton, the highway patrolman that we mentioned, 775 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 1: was the guy who in an interview said, you know 776 00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,439 Speaker 1: they did what they did because we didn't do our job. 777 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,320 Speaker 1: I think he felt forever bad that the law enforcement 778 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 1: had failed that town. 779 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. He also said in that same interview he knew 780 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 2: for sure who did it, and he was never going. 781 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 1: To say I think it was Clement, I just don't 782 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: know who the second shooter was. The guy that says 783 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: he would have killed them both and burned their house down, 784 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 1: claims that he knew the second shooter, but he wouldn't 785 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 1: say it either. 786 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, you got anything else? 787 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 1: I got nothing else? 788 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:29,280 Speaker 2: Quite a story, yeah, man, Yeah, thanks and thanks Olivia 789 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 2: for helping us with it. And since Chuck said good pick, 790 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,640 Speaker 2: that means, of course it's time for a brand new 791 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 2: listener mail. 792 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 1: That's right. This is a follow up on our what 793 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,320 Speaker 1: I thought was a really good episode that I enjoyed 794 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: on Kenton Grua and the Grand Canyon River speed Record. 795 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: Great episode on that guys. I read the book a 796 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: few years ago, and to answer a question you had 797 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,920 Speaker 1: about the eleven pm start time, as I recall, you're 798 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: correct in their desire to employ the cover of darkness. 799 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 1: There was also another, probably more important issue that led 800 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,360 Speaker 1: to that decision. Per my recollection of the book, it 801 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,320 Speaker 1: was the timing of when they would run into the 802 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 1: rapids where they eventually swamp the boat. It was a 803 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,800 Speaker 1: stretch they'd expected would be the crux of the trip. 804 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 1: As you pointed out, Kitting and his team were tenured 805 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 1: river rats who knew all the river like the back 806 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,839 Speaker 1: of their hand. However, the unique dynamics of the unprecedented 807 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 1: CFS meant that they were uncertain of exactly how fast 808 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,480 Speaker 1: they would be moving. By starting when they did, they 809 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,960 Speaker 1: were able to more or less ensure that section of 810 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 1: the river where they flipped would be squarely in the 811 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 1: middle of the day. A good worst case scenario and 812 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 1: good pre planning. And that's from Noah. That sounds like 813 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 1: a very reasonable assertion. 814 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks a lot, Noah. I'm not going to challenge 815 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:48,799 Speaker 2: him on it. Heck no, yeah. Okay. Well, if you 816 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 2: want to be like Noah and be like, hey, I 817 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,840 Speaker 2: got you guys. You have a question, I'm in Noah, 818 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,960 Speaker 2: then get in touch with us. Do it like Noah did, 819 00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,759 Speaker 2: Do everything like Noah did. Send us an email to 820 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 2: podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 821 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,080 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 822 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,359 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 823 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,320 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.