WEBVTT - Is Michelin finally starting to notice African cooking?

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>So this week we are leaving our South African studio

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<v Speaker 2>for the streets of London to talk about African gastronomy.

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<v Speaker 2>From the UK capital to New York and even New Orleans,

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<v Speaker 2>African cuisines seem to be a hot topic.

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<v Speaker 3>I believe that it's time now for us to showcase

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<v Speaker 3>West African food on a higher end and on a

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<v Speaker 3>fine dining set in in London. I think it's a

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<v Speaker 3>gap in the market that hasn't been tackled or hasn't

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<v Speaker 3>been a deer too yet.

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<v Speaker 2>So the time has come for African cuisine to shine

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<v Speaker 2>to the world how African cuisines went from casual to

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<v Speaker 2>high end and how African top chefs around the world

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<v Speaker 2>can capitalize on this success. I'm Jennifer's Abasaga and this

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<v Speaker 2>is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each

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<v Speaker 2>week from the continent driving the future of global growth

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<v Speaker 2>with the context only Bloomberg can provide. Aji Akokomi is

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<v Speaker 2>one of the hottest restaurant tours in London. His fine

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<v Speaker 2>dining tasting menu at A Coco has become one of

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<v Speaker 2>the hardest to get reservations in London, thanks in part

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<v Speaker 2>to the Hollywood actor and star of the hit restaurant

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<v Speaker 2>drama The Bear. His name is Will Poulter.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the food cultures that I think is massively

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<v Speaker 4>underrepresented at the FI dining level is food of African origin.

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<v Speaker 4>And the best restaurant I've beenc recently is a restaurant

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<v Speaker 4>called A Coco in London, and it was recently overlooked

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<v Speaker 4>by Michelan, which I think is a great a great shame.

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<v Speaker 4>It's a massive oversight of food of African origin and

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<v Speaker 4>black chefs in general.

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<v Speaker 5>But A Coco deserves a star.

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<v Speaker 2>Poulter called out the world famous Michelin Guide for failing

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<v Speaker 2>to recognize restaurants serving African cuisine, and now the guide

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<v Speaker 2>seems to have listened. A Coco has just received the

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<v Speaker 2>coveted Michelin Star, one of a vanishingly small number awarded

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<v Speaker 2>to restaurants headed by black chefs anywhere in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>So I went to meet Ahi in his restaurant just

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<v Speaker 2>off London's world famous retail strip Oxford Street.

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<v Speaker 1>We started to think about a restaurant about seven years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>The journey has been from not being able to get

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<v Speaker 1>land lots of who would want a westercona restaurant in

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<v Speaker 1>the property. Was that an issue that was an issue

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<v Speaker 1>that was a big issue. And also in not funding whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 1>It's actually really hard to get funding for restaurants at all.

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<v Speaker 1>People would be looking for a lot of experience and

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<v Speaker 1>also cuses where they were sure that he would do

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<v Speaker 1>well and they hadn't heard of Westfteron cuising before. It

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<v Speaker 1>was my first time and business, so it was just

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<v Speaker 1>a very quick no. But then I persevered and pretty

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<v Speaker 1>much thought that I was a gap in the market.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you talk about why fine dining for the West

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<v Speaker 2>African food scene was so import to you? Because n I

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<v Speaker 2>know African food too. You know there's street food, right,

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<v Speaker 2>there's smaller restaurants, there's parts of town that probably have

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of mom and pop type shops. But why

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<v Speaker 2>was fine dining so important for you to get into

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<v Speaker 2>for this cuisine.

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<v Speaker 1>I worked in it with people who had the spending

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<v Speaker 1>power to go it out and have really good experience,

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<v Speaker 1>and I felt that West of can food had not

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<v Speaker 1>been represented in that manner or perhaps colleagues would ask me, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I would like to try something African. So the only

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<v Speaker 1>place I could do was to take them home, cook

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<v Speaker 1>for them and enjoyed, and they don't ask me where

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<v Speaker 1>can we have this?

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<v Speaker 5>We can I buy this.

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<v Speaker 2>And so talk to us a little bit about the

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<v Speaker 2>foods and the tastes and the spices that you use

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<v Speaker 2>here that are distinct to a cocoa.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So the food West of can food pretty much is

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<v Speaker 1>that sort of deep umami flavor, smoke, spices and also

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<v Speaker 1>the big bowled vibrant flavor.

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<v Speaker 5>We now believe that to do it here.

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<v Speaker 1>We then have our three pillars that we use smoke,

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<v Speaker 1>umami and spices, and so we carefully source this beautiful

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<v Speaker 1>the aromatic spices from Africa and also the wood really

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<v Speaker 1>that we used to smell the food is from Africa,

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<v Speaker 1>an exceptional and British produce using the West Africa and

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<v Speaker 1>creative techniques to create dishes.

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<v Speaker 2>You import from the continent.

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, yeah, because for instance, we used the Namibian wood. Wow.

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<v Speaker 5>I remember the first that we saw still that we

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<v Speaker 5>started to burn it.

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<v Speaker 1>It smell, it reminded me of home and it has

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<v Speaker 1>done flavor that it adds into the dishes.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, I wanted to ask you about the tasting menu

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<v Speaker 2>format because more and more chefs it seems are reverting

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<v Speaker 2>to that, why did you decide to do that with

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<v Speaker 2>a cocoa?

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<v Speaker 1>So we started the restaurant as a tasting menu restaurant,

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<v Speaker 1>and mainly because we knew that people would not be

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<v Speaker 1>familiar with the dishes with the flavors, and it would

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<v Speaker 1>be difficult for them to.

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<v Speaker 5>Choose and what's that, what's the ice cream? What is

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<v Speaker 5>Genla flights and all of that.

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<v Speaker 1>We felt that it was important for us to walk

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<v Speaker 1>them through a journey and giving them a menu where.

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<v Speaker 5>Would then explain the inspiration.

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<v Speaker 1>The flavors and where, and it felt a lot more

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<v Speaker 1>like an experience.

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<v Speaker 5>So it was.

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<v Speaker 1>Deliberate and then the putting together texting men to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that we pretty much that could toll from the

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen countries in West Africa and the flavors and also

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<v Speaker 1>the dishes that are a coppler in all of these

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen countries and exper instance genoph It's pretople much have

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<v Speaker 1>main dish there pretty much the last course of the

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<v Speaker 1>Savior before we then go into the desserts.

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<v Speaker 2>Having to import from Africa. Obviously you're bringing it into

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<v Speaker 2>a new country, a new continent. Does that then add

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<v Speaker 2>up though to more and more costs for the restaurant.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that part of the reason why the prices are higher.

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<v Speaker 2>How have you factored that into your price point?

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<v Speaker 1>It adds a bit, but thankfully not so much, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think the reason being it's one the popularity of

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<v Speaker 1>Afghan presenting the UK means that good supply chains to

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<v Speaker 1>supply us good spices, so we'll always have good supply.

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<v Speaker 5>Thankful, We're happy for that.

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<v Speaker 1>And they would also the plethora of South African restaurants,

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<v Speaker 1>school restaurants for instance, so there's already that good supply chain,

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<v Speaker 1>there was.

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<v Speaker 5>Just people to tap into it. And then it's using.

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<v Speaker 1>Wood at all, really is a little bit more expensive,

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<v Speaker 1>So it adds a bit and would let people know

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<v Speaker 1>that that flavor that would beautiful would have pivo is

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<v Speaker 1>from Camadorian wood is from the BBA is from South Africa,

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<v Speaker 1>which is dried by the sun, imparting that flavor.

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<v Speaker 2>Many people might have heard the clip from Will the

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<v Speaker 2>actor Porter, who was obviously touting black chefs and restaurants.

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder if that had an effect on the popularity

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<v Speaker 2>in the bandwagon that you're talking about, or what was

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<v Speaker 2>the real turning point for this.

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<v Speaker 1>Restaurant I'll say yes that that was the magic moment.

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<v Speaker 5>We surprised, We were.

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<v Speaker 1>Very surprised, and it went viral and we fought we

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<v Speaker 1>there were videos and lots of Americans actually filming themselves

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<v Speaker 1>on the up in on the train coming to London

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<v Speaker 1>to come and experience at Coco.

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<v Speaker 5>How lucky can we be?

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<v Speaker 1>I think that even allowed micheally, that even allowed a

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<v Speaker 1>lots of lot of people to really notice us. And

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<v Speaker 1>that was a turning point in the in our restaurant

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<v Speaker 1>really and we actually experienced a lot of people last

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<v Speaker 1>year with finger We're busy. Now last year we've always

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<v Speaker 1>been rather busy, but from that we were packed with

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<v Speaker 1>lots of a waited list.

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<v Speaker 2>And what about the Michelin Star. You have the sign

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<v Speaker 2>side up the restaurant. What did that do for the

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<v Speaker 2>same effects?

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<v Speaker 5>Will Pulsa had the same? Prey much powerful? Will polter

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<v Speaker 5>like a Michelin Paulota wonderful? Metic is wonderful? Thank you? Yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 5>pen want the same effects.

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<v Speaker 2>And in a moment we'll have more from Ahi, including

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<v Speaker 2>whether the Michelin star might now mean prices could rise.

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<v Speaker 2>Plus Bloomberg's food editor Kate Crater on the rise of

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<v Speaker 2>African fine dining and how Rosie the Future is looking

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<v Speaker 2>for food from all across the continent. Welcome back today,

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<v Speaker 2>we are talking fine dining and back at a Coco,

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<v Speaker 2>I asked Ahi what the impact of the Michelin Star

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<v Speaker 2>will be on his restaurant.

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<v Speaker 1>We've not increased the price, but what we've done since then,

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<v Speaker 1>it's been very busy and it's been launched, and what

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<v Speaker 1>we've been doing intern the lead is to ensure that

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<v Speaker 1>we'll retain the star, is to ensure that we have

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<v Speaker 1>better every day.

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<v Speaker 5>And so it's been so much work.

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<v Speaker 1>What is it about the food, What is it about

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<v Speaker 1>the space, what is it about the service? So it's

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<v Speaker 1>just all of our work comings together, working every day

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<v Speaker 1>to actually be a real proper Micheline Sat restaurant. And

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<v Speaker 1>when we are confident, when we've done all the things

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<v Speaker 1>in a new place, new menal is on cards, which

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<v Speaker 1>we're working on once there might increase the paceable. For now,

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<v Speaker 1>I just want our plethora customers to truly enjoy that

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<v Speaker 1>mission in experience.

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<v Speaker 2>And outside of giving people a taste of your country,

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<v Speaker 2>your culture, what do you see this doing for the continent,

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<v Speaker 2>for the African continent, for the African people. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>is there something in introducing people to this cuisine that

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<v Speaker 2>you think will then help eventually benefit your country.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's doing wonders and I think the plethora of

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<v Speaker 1>people from the continent have actually come as well. It's

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<v Speaker 1>just for them to see a blank business doing well firstly,

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<v Speaker 1>and also to see wonderful restaurants celebrating West Souftern cuisine.

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<v Speaker 1>Proud list for them is actually knowing that they could

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<v Speaker 1>make it. Now you can actually be a chef and

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<v Speaker 1>then open up a restaurant somewhere in Lordn America and

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<v Speaker 1>very successful.

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<v Speaker 5>But also it's helping a supply chain.

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<v Speaker 1>Really there's a lot of good drive towroduce that can

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<v Speaker 1>travel that we're not buying from the continent. The suppliers

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<v Speaker 1>from there, little farmers from there that sending the goods

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<v Speaker 1>to the UK and then we actually recommend them to

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<v Speaker 1>other restaurants, your creators as.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the staff that you bring on just because we're

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<v Speaker 2>listening to the staff, yes, not everybody, I assume it's

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<v Speaker 2>from West Africa, right, how do you bring together the

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<v Speaker 2>right mix of people who know how to get the

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<v Speaker 2>flavors and the food right and spot on to what

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<v Speaker 2>it is that you remember about home.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's such an important question because we are a

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<v Speaker 1>West souftern restaurant in London, and then we wanted our

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<v Speaker 1>team to pretty much be very diverse.

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<v Speaker 5>We want people from all.

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<v Speaker 1>Backgrounds from anywhere to pretty much enjoy our food but

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<v Speaker 1>also the cooking. So we have plethora of CBS sometime

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<v Speaker 1>from Japan, something from France. It's that hospitality, is that

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<v Speaker 1>friendly net come be part of us and learn about

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<v Speaker 1>our cusine, learn about our culture and.

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<v Speaker 5>None of that. And so that's a vibe of a cocoa.

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<v Speaker 2>So could this be a special moment for African food?

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<v Speaker 2>Kate creator Bloomberg's food editor, is joining me now to

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<v Speaker 2>talk all through it. So, Kate, thanks so much for

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<v Speaker 2>being on the podcast. Really great to get you on

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<v Speaker 2>anyone who's traveled throughout the world. Obviously, we know there's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of African cuisines that are known as more

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<v Speaker 2>street food or sort of mom and pop shops. But

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<v Speaker 2>what do you make, Kate of this increased interest really

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<v Speaker 2>with African cuisine and fine dining.

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<v Speaker 6>To me, it's a fantastic thing to see and it's

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<v Speaker 6>something I didn't see so much in New York, where

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<v Speaker 6>I've spent most of my professional career as a food

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<v Speaker 6>writer and editor. So it's terrific to come here to London.

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<v Speaker 6>And even in the time that I've been here, I've

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<v Speaker 6>seen a sort of explosion in African in fine dining

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<v Speaker 6>concepts and even just ambitious chefs and operators who have

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<v Speaker 6>sort of ambitious plans for African food. One reason that

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<v Speaker 6>you're seeing so much of it in London is that

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<v Speaker 6>people are looking for authentic experiences, and there's also just

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<v Speaker 6>a sense that you want to see what's happening around

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<v Speaker 6>the world in cuisines that you're not familiar with, and

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<v Speaker 6>people are certainly not familiar enough with African food. They

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<v Speaker 6>haven't taken it. That's seriously, especially in the realm of

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<v Speaker 6>find dining or something beyond what you would eat after

0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.839
<v Speaker 6>church or on a high street that wouldn't cost more

0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.319
<v Speaker 6>than ten pounds for a plate or a buffet meal.

0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.520
<v Speaker 6>So I think, for one thing, to walk into a

0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.400
<v Speaker 6>restaurant that's as lovely as a cocoa is and have

0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:04.840
<v Speaker 6>a trendscendent experience that's really immersive, To use African artisans

0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:08.119
<v Speaker 6>to make plates, to have a sense of just how beautiful.

0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:12.120
<v Speaker 6>Some of these dishes can be not just that they're delicious,

0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.600
<v Speaker 6>but that they look really lovely. It's just a singular

0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.360
<v Speaker 6>experience and something that people are willing to spend a

0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.360
<v Speaker 6>lot of money on. Right now, let's do something that's

0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.840
<v Speaker 6>like nothing else we get to do or we have done.

0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Right, it's like an experience. They're paying for the experience there.

0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.600
<v Speaker 2>We heard Ahi talk about just how significant getting that

0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:35.600
<v Speaker 2>Michelin star was for a cocoa. But considering the difficult

0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:37.719
<v Speaker 2>time restaurants have had over the past few years, does

0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:39.800
<v Speaker 2>it actually make a difference to the bottom line when

0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.680
<v Speaker 2>they do receive an accolade like this, like the Michelin Star,

0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.520
<v Speaker 2>does it still have the same significance that it had

0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:46.560
<v Speaker 2>decades ago.

0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.920
<v Speaker 6>That's an excellent question. Some people will tell you that

0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.800
<v Speaker 6>Michelin's become a bit wider down. They've been definitely expanding

0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:58.400
<v Speaker 6>and now they're in places like Colorado and in Orlando, Florida,

0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.800
<v Speaker 6>which is better known as being disney World, which is

0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 6>not a place where you think you're going to go

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:07.319
<v Speaker 6>for Michelin starred food. No matter what, it's an accolade

0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.040
<v Speaker 6>and it's great to have and a shiny star will

0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:13.559
<v Speaker 6>definitely attract diners. I don't know if you know people,

0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.400
<v Speaker 6>but I definitely know people who scan the latest Michelin

0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.360
<v Speaker 6>ratings and say, now I know I want to go here.

0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.160
<v Speaker 6>You know, it's like I guess there's like health ratings

0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.440
<v Speaker 6>like A B and C. Like if you have Michelin Star,

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.600
<v Speaker 6>no matter what, it's like a plus plus and then

0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.320
<v Speaker 6>especially if you have more than one. And there's been

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:35.080
<v Speaker 6>such a lack of Michelin Stars given to black chefs

0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:39.160
<v Speaker 6>in general or places run by black chefs, and certainly

0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:44.240
<v Speaker 6>African restaurants in particular. Last August, we did a great

0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.400
<v Speaker 6>story about the lack of black chefs in Michelin starred

0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.240
<v Speaker 6>restaurants and there were only six as of last August

0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.280
<v Speaker 6>twenty twenty three, and now there's already a couple more.

0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.680
<v Speaker 6>I know, it's crazy, sort of it's validation, right. I

0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.000
<v Speaker 6>think it's good internally. It's good for people to feel

0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.440
<v Speaker 6>great about what they're doing and like they're being seen,

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.640
<v Speaker 6>and they are being seen because people do still pay

0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:07.640
<v Speaker 6>attention to michel And.

0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Do you think, then, Kate, does that sort of mean

0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.640
<v Speaker 2>will continue to see more African fine dining restaurants open up? Globally.

0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:17.480
<v Speaker 2>What sort of impact do you think it makes more

0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.200
<v Speaker 2>broadly to the cuisine.

0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.320
<v Speaker 6>I love to think that it's going to you know,

0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.320
<v Speaker 6>it's validation and it means that more restaurants will do

0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.680
<v Speaker 6>more ambitious menus and charge more money for it. There's

0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.280
<v Speaker 6>a restaurant called Chisharu that started out in Brixton as

0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.280
<v Speaker 6>a sort of pop up and the chef Jokie Bacare.

0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.720
<v Speaker 6>When she first started in Brixton in literally a food hall,

0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.480
<v Speaker 6>I think her dinner menu was forty five pounds for

0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.760
<v Speaker 6>a couple courses. Now she's moved to Covent Garden to

0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.920
<v Speaker 6>much fancier trappings and her menu cost ninety five pounds

0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.440
<v Speaker 6>for a dinner. And so that's the kind of movement

0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:01.480
<v Speaker 6>where I think chefs and operators can say we're not

0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.920
<v Speaker 6>afraid to charge more money because this is how much

0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.520
<v Speaker 6>our food costs to produce and it's worth it. There

0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.760
<v Speaker 6>shouldn't be a stigma attached to African food that it

0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.800
<v Speaker 6>should be cheap, because people primarily know it is street food.

0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 6>It can be a food that can be super indulgent

0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.320
<v Speaker 6>and make you really make you feel like, yes, I

0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.360
<v Speaker 6>want to spend one hundred pounds or almost one hundred

0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.280
<v Speaker 6>pounds to eat this food, and I can't wait to

0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:23.840
<v Speaker 6>do it again.

0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.240
<v Speaker 2>Thanks so much to Kate Crator, and thank you also

0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.800
<v Speaker 2>to Ahi Akokomi, the founder of A Coco, for inviting

0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:35.080
<v Speaker 2>me into his now world famous restaurant. Whether more African

0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.200
<v Speaker 2>restaurants are awarded with a coveted Michelin star or not,

0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.320
<v Speaker 2>the recent recognition is clearly giving the cuisine and the

0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:46.520
<v Speaker 2>cooks behind it it's long overdue spotlight in many markets,

0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.560
<v Speaker 2>expanding the palettes of those diners new to African cuisines

0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:56.760
<v Speaker 2>and those just looking to indulge in a familiar taste.

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<v Speaker 2>This program was produced Adrian Bradley. If you like the episode,

0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.119
<v Speaker 2>don't forget to comment and subscribe. Wherever you are listening

0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:09.760
<v Speaker 2>to this podcast, I'm Jennifer's Abasoga. Thanks as always for

0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:10.240
<v Speaker 2>listening