Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: So this week we are leaving our South African studio
Speaker 2: for the streets of London to talk about African gastronomy.
Speaker 2: From the UK capital to New York and even New Orleans,
Speaker 2: African cuisines seem to be a hot topic.
Speaker 3: I believe that it's time now for us to showcase
Speaker 3: West African food on a higher end and on a
Speaker 3: fine dining set in in London. I think it's a
Speaker 3: gap in the market that hasn't been tackled or hasn't
Speaker 3: been a deer too yet.
Speaker 2: So the time has come for African cuisine to shine
Speaker 2: to the world how African cuisines went from casual to
Speaker 2: high end and how African top chefs around the world
Speaker 2: can capitalize on this success. I'm Jennifer's Abasaga and this
Speaker 2: is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each
Speaker 2: week from the continent driving the future of global growth
Speaker 2: with the context only Bloomberg can provide. Aji Akokomi is
Speaker 2: one of the hottest restaurant tours in London. His fine
Speaker 2: dining tasting menu at A Coco has become one of
Speaker 2: the hardest to get reservations in London, thanks in part
Speaker 2: to the Hollywood actor and star of the hit restaurant
Speaker 2: drama The Bear. His name is Will Poulter.
Speaker 4: One of the food cultures that I think is massively
Speaker 4: underrepresented at the FI dining level is food of African origin.
Speaker 4: And the best restaurant I've beenc recently is a restaurant
Speaker 4: called A Coco in London, and it was recently overlooked
Speaker 4: by Michelan, which I think is a great a great shame.
Speaker 4: It's a massive oversight of food of African origin and
Speaker 4: black chefs in general.
Speaker 5: But A Coco deserves a star.
Speaker 2: Poulter called out the world famous Michelin Guide for failing
Speaker 2: to recognize restaurants serving African cuisine, and now the guide
Speaker 2: seems to have listened. A Coco has just received the
Speaker 2: coveted Michelin Star, one of a vanishingly small number awarded
Speaker 2: to restaurants headed by black chefs anywhere in the world.
Speaker 2: So I went to meet Ahi in his restaurant just
Speaker 2: off London's world famous retail strip Oxford Street.
Speaker 1: We started to think about a restaurant about seven years ago.
Speaker 1: The journey has been from not being able to get
Speaker 1: land lots of who would want a westercona restaurant in
Speaker 1: the property. Was that an issue that was an issue
Speaker 1: that was a big issue. And also in not funding whatsoever.
Speaker 1: It's actually really hard to get funding for restaurants at all.
Speaker 1: People would be looking for a lot of experience and
Speaker 1: also cuses where they were sure that he would do
Speaker 1: well and they hadn't heard of Westfteron cuising before. It
Speaker 1: was my first time and business, so it was just
Speaker 1: a very quick no. But then I persevered and pretty
Speaker 1: much thought that I was a gap in the market.
Speaker 2: Can you talk about why fine dining for the West
Speaker 2: African food scene was so import to you? Because n I
Speaker 2: know African food too. You know there's street food, right,
Speaker 2: there's smaller restaurants, there's parts of town that probably have
Speaker 2: a lot of mom and pop type shops. But why
Speaker 2: was fine dining so important for you to get into
Speaker 2: for this cuisine.
Speaker 1: I worked in it with people who had the spending
Speaker 1: power to go it out and have really good experience,
Speaker 1: and I felt that West of can food had not
Speaker 1: been represented in that manner or perhaps colleagues would ask me, oh,
Speaker 1: I would like to try something African. So the only
Speaker 1: place I could do was to take them home, cook
Speaker 1: for them and enjoyed, and they don't ask me where
Speaker 1: can we have this?
Speaker 5: We can I buy this.
Speaker 2: And so talk to us a little bit about the
Speaker 2: foods and the tastes and the spices that you use
Speaker 2: here that are distinct to a cocoa.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the food West of can food pretty much is
Speaker 1: that sort of deep umami flavor, smoke, spices and also
Speaker 1: the big bowled vibrant flavor.
Speaker 5: We now believe that to do it here.
Speaker 1: We then have our three pillars that we use smoke,
Speaker 1: umami and spices, and so we carefully source this beautiful
Speaker 1: the aromatic spices from Africa and also the wood really
Speaker 1: that we used to smell the food is from Africa,
Speaker 1: an exceptional and British produce using the West Africa and
Speaker 1: creative techniques to create dishes.
Speaker 2: You import from the continent.
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, because for instance, we used the Namibian wood. Wow.
Speaker 5: I remember the first that we saw still that we
Speaker 5: started to burn it.
Speaker 1: It smell, it reminded me of home and it has
Speaker 1: done flavor that it adds into the dishes.
Speaker 2: Really, I wanted to ask you about the tasting menu
Speaker 2: format because more and more chefs it seems are reverting
Speaker 2: to that, why did you decide to do that with
Speaker 2: a cocoa?
Speaker 1: So we started the restaurant as a tasting menu restaurant,
Speaker 1: and mainly because we knew that people would not be
Speaker 1: familiar with the dishes with the flavors, and it would
Speaker 1: be difficult for them to.
Speaker 5: Choose and what's that, what's the ice cream? What is
Speaker 5: Genla flights and all of that.
Speaker 1: We felt that it was important for us to walk
Speaker 1: them through a journey and giving them a menu where.
Speaker 5: Would then explain the inspiration.
Speaker 1: The flavors and where, and it felt a lot more
Speaker 1: like an experience.
Speaker 5: So it was.
Speaker 1: Deliberate and then the putting together texting men to make
Speaker 1: sure that we pretty much that could toll from the
Speaker 1: eighteen countries in West Africa and the flavors and also
Speaker 1: the dishes that are a coppler in all of these
Speaker 1: eighteen countries and exper instance genoph It's pretople much have
Speaker 1: main dish there pretty much the last course of the
Speaker 1: Savior before we then go into the desserts.
Speaker 2: Having to import from Africa. Obviously you're bringing it into
Speaker 2: a new country, a new continent. Does that then add
Speaker 2: up though to more and more costs for the restaurant.
Speaker 2: Is that part of the reason why the prices are higher.
Speaker 2: How have you factored that into your price point?
Speaker 1: It adds a bit, but thankfully not so much, and
Speaker 1: I think the reason being it's one the popularity of
Speaker 1: Afghan presenting the UK means that good supply chains to
Speaker 1: supply us good spices, so we'll always have good supply.
Speaker 5: Thankful, We're happy for that.
Speaker 1: And they would also the plethora of South African restaurants,
Speaker 1: school restaurants for instance, so there's already that good supply chain,
Speaker 1: there was.
Speaker 5: Just people to tap into it. And then it's using.
Speaker 1: Wood at all, really is a little bit more expensive,
Speaker 1: So it adds a bit and would let people know
Speaker 1: that that flavor that would beautiful would have pivo is
Speaker 1: from Camadorian wood is from the BBA is from South Africa,
Speaker 1: which is dried by the sun, imparting that flavor.
Speaker 2: Many people might have heard the clip from Will the
Speaker 2: actor Porter, who was obviously touting black chefs and restaurants.
Speaker 2: I wonder if that had an effect on the popularity
Speaker 2: in the bandwagon that you're talking about, or what was
Speaker 2: the real turning point for this.
Speaker 1: Restaurant I'll say yes that that was the magic moment.
Speaker 5: We surprised, We were.
Speaker 1: Very surprised, and it went viral and we fought we
Speaker 1: there were videos and lots of Americans actually filming themselves
Speaker 1: on the up in on the train coming to London
Speaker 1: to come and experience at Coco.
Speaker 5: How lucky can we be?
Speaker 1: I think that even allowed micheally, that even allowed a
Speaker 1: lots of lot of people to really notice us. And
Speaker 1: that was a turning point in the in our restaurant
Speaker 1: really and we actually experienced a lot of people last
Speaker 1: year with finger We're busy. Now last year we've always
Speaker 1: been rather busy, but from that we were packed with
Speaker 1: lots of a waited list.
Speaker 2: And what about the Michelin Star. You have the sign
Speaker 2: side up the restaurant. What did that do for the
Speaker 2: same effects?
Speaker 5: Will Pulsa had the same? Prey much powerful? Will polter
Speaker 5: like a Michelin Paulota wonderful? Metic is wonderful? Thank you? Yes, yes,
Speaker 5: pen want the same effects.
Speaker 2: And in a moment we'll have more from Ahi, including
Speaker 2: whether the Michelin star might now mean prices could rise.
Speaker 2: Plus Bloomberg's food editor Kate Crater on the rise of
Speaker 2: African fine dining and how Rosie the Future is looking
Speaker 2: for food from all across the continent. Welcome back today,
Speaker 2: we are talking fine dining and back at a Coco,
Speaker 2: I asked Ahi what the impact of the Michelin Star
Speaker 2: will be on his restaurant.
Speaker 1: We've not increased the price, but what we've done since then,
Speaker 1: it's been very busy and it's been launched, and what
Speaker 1: we've been doing intern the lead is to ensure that
Speaker 1: we'll retain the star, is to ensure that we have
Speaker 1: better every day.
Speaker 5: And so it's been so much work.
Speaker 1: What is it about the food, What is it about
Speaker 1: the space, what is it about the service? So it's
Speaker 1: just all of our work comings together, working every day
Speaker 1: to actually be a real proper Micheline Sat restaurant. And
Speaker 1: when we are confident, when we've done all the things
Speaker 1: in a new place, new menal is on cards, which
Speaker 1: we're working on once there might increase the paceable. For now,
Speaker 1: I just want our plethora customers to truly enjoy that
Speaker 1: mission in experience.
Speaker 2: And outside of giving people a taste of your country,
Speaker 2: your culture, what do you see this doing for the continent,
Speaker 2: for the African continent, for the African people. I mean,
Speaker 2: is there something in introducing people to this cuisine that
Speaker 2: you think will then help eventually benefit your country.
Speaker 1: And it's doing wonders and I think the plethora of
Speaker 1: people from the continent have actually come as well. It's
Speaker 1: just for them to see a blank business doing well firstly,
Speaker 1: and also to see wonderful restaurants celebrating West Souftern cuisine.
Speaker 1: Proud list for them is actually knowing that they could
Speaker 1: make it. Now you can actually be a chef and
Speaker 1: then open up a restaurant somewhere in Lordn America and
Speaker 1: very successful.
Speaker 5: But also it's helping a supply chain.
Speaker 1: Really there's a lot of good drive towroduce that can
Speaker 1: travel that we're not buying from the continent. The suppliers
Speaker 1: from there, little farmers from there that sending the goods
Speaker 1: to the UK and then we actually recommend them to
Speaker 1: other restaurants, your creators as.
Speaker 2: Well, the staff that you bring on just because we're
Speaker 2: listening to the staff, yes, not everybody, I assume it's
Speaker 2: from West Africa, right, how do you bring together the
Speaker 2: right mix of people who know how to get the
Speaker 2: flavors and the food right and spot on to what
Speaker 2: it is that you remember about home.
Speaker 1: And that's such an important question because we are a
Speaker 1: West souftern restaurant in London, and then we wanted our
Speaker 1: team to pretty much be very diverse.
Speaker 5: We want people from all.
Speaker 1: Backgrounds from anywhere to pretty much enjoy our food but
Speaker 1: also the cooking. So we have plethora of CBS sometime
Speaker 1: from Japan, something from France. It's that hospitality, is that
Speaker 1: friendly net come be part of us and learn about
Speaker 1: our cusine, learn about our culture and.
Speaker 5: None of that. And so that's a vibe of a cocoa.
Speaker 2: So could this be a special moment for African food?
Speaker 2: Kate creator Bloomberg's food editor, is joining me now to
Speaker 2: talk all through it. So, Kate, thanks so much for
Speaker 2: being on the podcast. Really great to get you on
Speaker 2: anyone who's traveled throughout the world. Obviously, we know there's
Speaker 2: a lot of African cuisines that are known as more
Speaker 2: street food or sort of mom and pop shops. But
Speaker 2: what do you make, Kate of this increased interest really
Speaker 2: with African cuisine and fine dining.
Speaker 6: To me, it's a fantastic thing to see and it's
Speaker 6: something I didn't see so much in New York, where
Speaker 6: I've spent most of my professional career as a food
Speaker 6: writer and editor. So it's terrific to come here to London.
Speaker 6: And even in the time that I've been here, I've
Speaker 6: seen a sort of explosion in African in fine dining
Speaker 6: concepts and even just ambitious chefs and operators who have
Speaker 6: sort of ambitious plans for African food. One reason that
Speaker 6: you're seeing so much of it in London is that
Speaker 6: people are looking for authentic experiences, and there's also just
Speaker 6: a sense that you want to see what's happening around
Speaker 6: the world in cuisines that you're not familiar with, and
Speaker 6: people are certainly not familiar enough with African food. They
Speaker 6: haven't taken it. That's seriously, especially in the realm of
Speaker 6: find dining or something beyond what you would eat after
Speaker 6: church or on a high street that wouldn't cost more
Speaker 6: than ten pounds for a plate or a buffet meal.
Speaker 6: So I think, for one thing, to walk into a
Speaker 6: restaurant that's as lovely as a cocoa is and have
Speaker 6: a trendscendent experience that's really immersive, To use African artisans
Speaker 6: to make plates, to have a sense of just how beautiful.
Speaker 6: Some of these dishes can be not just that they're delicious,
Speaker 6: but that they look really lovely. It's just a singular
Speaker 6: experience and something that people are willing to spend a
Speaker 6: lot of money on. Right now, let's do something that's
Speaker 6: like nothing else we get to do or we have done.
Speaker 2: Right, it's like an experience. They're paying for the experience there.
Speaker 2: We heard Ahi talk about just how significant getting that
Speaker 2: Michelin star was for a cocoa. But considering the difficult
Speaker 2: time restaurants have had over the past few years, does
Speaker 2: it actually make a difference to the bottom line when
Speaker 2: they do receive an accolade like this, like the Michelin Star,
Speaker 2: does it still have the same significance that it had
Speaker 2: decades ago.
Speaker 6: That's an excellent question. Some people will tell you that
Speaker 6: Michelin's become a bit wider down. They've been definitely expanding
Speaker 6: and now they're in places like Colorado and in Orlando, Florida,
Speaker 6: which is better known as being disney World, which is
Speaker 6: not a place where you think you're going to go
Speaker 6: for Michelin starred food. No matter what, it's an accolade
Speaker 6: and it's great to have and a shiny star will
Speaker 6: definitely attract diners. I don't know if you know people,
Speaker 6: but I definitely know people who scan the latest Michelin
Speaker 6: ratings and say, now I know I want to go here.
Speaker 6: You know, it's like I guess there's like health ratings
Speaker 6: like A B and C. Like if you have Michelin Star,
Speaker 6: no matter what, it's like a plus plus and then
Speaker 6: especially if you have more than one. And there's been
Speaker 6: such a lack of Michelin Stars given to black chefs
Speaker 6: in general or places run by black chefs, and certainly
Speaker 6: African restaurants in particular. Last August, we did a great
Speaker 6: story about the lack of black chefs in Michelin starred
Speaker 6: restaurants and there were only six as of last August
Speaker 6: twenty twenty three, and now there's already a couple more.
Speaker 6: I know, it's crazy, sort of it's validation, right. I
Speaker 6: think it's good internally. It's good for people to feel
Speaker 6: great about what they're doing and like they're being seen,
Speaker 6: and they are being seen because people do still pay
Speaker 6: attention to michel And.
Speaker 2: Do you think, then, Kate, does that sort of mean
Speaker 2: will continue to see more African fine dining restaurants open up? Globally.
Speaker 2: What sort of impact do you think it makes more
Speaker 2: broadly to the cuisine.
Speaker 6: I love to think that it's going to you know,
Speaker 6: it's validation and it means that more restaurants will do
Speaker 6: more ambitious menus and charge more money for it. There's
Speaker 6: a restaurant called Chisharu that started out in Brixton as
Speaker 6: a sort of pop up and the chef Jokie Bacare.
Speaker 6: When she first started in Brixton in literally a food hall,
Speaker 6: I think her dinner menu was forty five pounds for
Speaker 6: a couple courses. Now she's moved to Covent Garden to
Speaker 6: much fancier trappings and her menu cost ninety five pounds
Speaker 6: for a dinner. And so that's the kind of movement
Speaker 6: where I think chefs and operators can say we're not
Speaker 6: afraid to charge more money because this is how much
Speaker 6: our food costs to produce and it's worth it. There
Speaker 6: shouldn't be a stigma attached to African food that it
Speaker 6: should be cheap, because people primarily know it is street food.
Speaker 6: It can be a food that can be super indulgent
Speaker 6: and make you really make you feel like, yes, I
Speaker 6: want to spend one hundred pounds or almost one hundred
Speaker 6: pounds to eat this food, and I can't wait to
Speaker 6: do it again.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much to Kate Crator, and thank you also
Speaker 2: to Ahi Akokomi, the founder of A Coco, for inviting
Speaker 2: me into his now world famous restaurant. Whether more African
Speaker 2: restaurants are awarded with a coveted Michelin star or not,
Speaker 2: the recent recognition is clearly giving the cuisine and the
Speaker 2: cooks behind it it's long overdue spotlight in many markets,
Speaker 2: expanding the palettes of those diners new to African cuisines
Speaker 2: and those just looking to indulge in a familiar taste.
Speaker 2: This program was produced Adrian Bradley. If you like the episode,
Speaker 2: don't forget to comment and subscribe. Wherever you are listening
Speaker 2: to this podcast, I'm Jennifer's Abasoga. Thanks as always for
Speaker 2: listening