WEBVTT - Rewind: Jeff Tweedy 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:21.956 Pushkin, we have a pretty great episode from our back 0:00:21.956 --> 0:00:24.556 catalog to play for you today. In late twenty twenty, 0:00:24.636 --> 0:00:28.196 Wilco's frontman and songwriter released his compact How to Write 0:00:28.196 --> 0:00:31.716 One Song Book, an immense guide for bringing out anyone's 0:00:31.756 --> 0:00:35.956 inner latent creativity through songwriting. This is just the kind 0:00:35.996 --> 0:00:38.796 of idea that my co host, Malcolm Gladwell loves, and 0:00:38.836 --> 0:00:41.156 so the two had a nice little conversation about the 0:00:41.196 --> 0:00:44.156 book and about what's made Tweety one of the consummate 0:00:44.236 --> 0:00:47.916 songwriters of the twentieth century so far, So enjoy this 0:00:47.996 --> 0:00:54.676 episode from twenty twenty. This is broken record, real musicians, 0:00:54.916 --> 0:01:00.596 real conversations. 0:01:01.676 --> 0:01:05.276 Can I start with this tantalizing little anecdote. You're telling 0:01:05.356 --> 0:01:08.716 your book that when your dad got mad, he would 0:01:08.756 --> 0:01:11.316 go into the basement and write poems. And all I 0:01:11.316 --> 0:01:14.356 could think of is this is the Jeff Tweety origin story. 0:01:15.756 --> 0:01:20.516 Pretty much? I think, so yeah, it was your father musical. 0:01:21.636 --> 0:01:26.756 My father was a frustrated entertainer. He got my mom 0:01:26.796 --> 0:01:31.756 pregnant in high school and they dropped out and he 0:01:31.836 --> 0:01:35.676 got a job on the railroad, and I think his 0:01:35.716 --> 0:01:39.596 whole life, I think that he wished that he had 0:01:39.636 --> 0:01:43.556 had an opportunity to be on stage somehow. But he 0:01:43.676 --> 0:01:48.076 was not particularly musical. But he was entertaining, that's for sure. 0:01:48.836 --> 0:01:52.036 But he aspired to be musical. He always he liked 0:01:52.036 --> 0:01:55.316 to sing. He drank a lot, and he got up 0:01:55.356 --> 0:02:00.156 at every wedding and embarrassed us, terribly humiliated us in 0:02:00.276 --> 0:02:01.156 lots of cases. 0:02:03.356 --> 0:02:04.956 But were his poems? 0:02:05.116 --> 0:02:05.956 Were they any good? 0:02:06.196 --> 0:02:06.436 Yeah? 0:02:06.556 --> 0:02:09.996 I know my dad was brilliant, you know, they weren't. 0:02:10.196 --> 0:02:13.036 I don't think that they were good in like a 0:02:13.316 --> 0:02:18.396 Robert Frost way or but they might have been good 0:02:18.556 --> 0:02:24.316 in a Jimmy Stewart kind of or Ogden Nash maybe 0:02:24.396 --> 0:02:28.076 at the high end of his aspirations. But you know, 0:02:29.116 --> 0:02:31.316 he wouldn't have had any of those references other than 0:02:31.356 --> 0:02:34.156 Jimmy Stewart. So but he did, you know, he made 0:02:34.876 --> 0:02:41.396 un requited forays into indulging his musical side many times, 0:02:41.436 --> 0:02:44.436 like he bought uh an organ from the mall that 0:02:45.116 --> 0:02:48.356 the salesman claimed would teach him how to play, and 0:02:48.756 --> 0:02:51.116 he would just sit there and watch the lights flash 0:02:51.236 --> 0:02:55.356 as it would play itself, and drink a beer. It 0:02:55.396 --> 0:02:58.596 was a I have a lot of memories of that. 0:02:59.956 --> 0:03:03.436 But the poem he wrote the poems when you said 0:03:03.436 --> 0:03:07.196 when he was angry. 0:03:05.676 --> 0:03:07.956 That was my memory of them. 0:03:08.196 --> 0:03:13.956 Yeah, and I sadly, you know, a couple of summers 0:03:13.996 --> 0:03:17.596 ago when he passed away, we you know, we emptied 0:03:17.636 --> 0:03:20.036 out the house, the house that I the only house 0:03:20.076 --> 0:03:22.476 I'd ever lived in when you know, like my parents 0:03:22.476 --> 0:03:26.196 bought when my mom was pregnant with me. And I 0:03:26.276 --> 0:03:30.356 found a lot of his homework from when he taught 0:03:30.396 --> 0:03:37.036 himself or basically learned computing, early on math homework and 0:03:37.076 --> 0:03:38.796 stuff like that. But I didn't find any of the 0:03:38.796 --> 0:03:40.516 notebooks that had any of the poems. 0:03:40.556 --> 0:03:44.756 So I suspect that he just got it off his 0:03:44.876 --> 0:03:49.556 chest and then threw them away, you know, Yeah. 0:03:48.596 --> 0:03:52.956 I just I just love these kinds of generational parallels. 0:03:53.956 --> 0:03:57.236 It's almost like, you know, if you were on the couch, 0:03:57.276 --> 0:04:00.876 I would say, you're like tweety two point zero, you're 0:04:00.916 --> 0:04:07.036 like the do over, the frustrated musicians who's writing these 0:04:07.556 --> 0:04:12.516 essentially lyrics, and then you're you. You've come along and 0:04:12.556 --> 0:04:14.276 you've turned it into an art. 0:04:15.436 --> 0:04:18.516 Well, yeah, I mean, uh, there's there are tons of 0:04:18.556 --> 0:04:23.236 parallels that I mean. I mean it's disturbing as you 0:04:23.236 --> 0:04:25.636 get older, how much you start to look like your parents, 0:04:25.716 --> 0:04:28.716 and I look like exactly like my dad. And you know, 0:04:28.836 --> 0:04:30.876 I think he suffered from a lot of the same 0:04:31.036 --> 0:04:34.076 mood disorders that I've dealt with in my life. But 0:04:34.716 --> 0:04:39.596 he clumsily, but somehow, you know, as far as employment goes, 0:04:39.636 --> 0:04:42.756 and far as far as like not having worsening consequences 0:04:42.956 --> 0:04:47.236 which would be typical of alcoholism, he managed to medicate 0:04:47.356 --> 0:04:52.476 himself clumsily for his entire life, you know, for anxiety. 0:04:52.516 --> 0:04:56.196 I'm sure he had anxiety and depression and and yet 0:04:56.356 --> 0:04:59.996 and he did, instinctively seem to have turned to some 0:05:00.116 --> 0:05:02.796 of the same things that have provided some solace for 0:05:02.956 --> 0:05:07.236 me that weren't unhealthy, you know, like getting things off 0:05:07.236 --> 0:05:10.476 his chest. And you know, I was indulged a lot, 0:05:11.436 --> 0:05:14.076 perhaps because I was a do over. 0:05:17.316 --> 0:05:20.236 When did you write your first song? Do you remember. 0:05:21.676 --> 0:05:24.036 The first song I remember writing? And I'm pretty sure 0:05:24.036 --> 0:05:26.196 that there were songs before this, But the first song 0:05:26.236 --> 0:05:30.796 I remember writing was a song called your Little World, 0:05:31.756 --> 0:05:36.236 and it was about a girl and her not having 0:05:36.396 --> 0:05:38.636 enough room in her world for me. 0:05:40.036 --> 0:05:42.556 And how old are you when are you writing? 0:05:43.236 --> 0:05:45.436 Maybe thirteen fourteen? 0:05:46.116 --> 0:05:47.876 You don't remember it, do you? 0:05:47.036 --> 0:05:51.596 Your little World's much too small? Oh, I ain't got 0:05:51.596 --> 0:05:53.756 no room at all, So yeah, I was. I can 0:05:53.876 --> 0:05:54.996 remember it, I could play it. 0:05:55.276 --> 0:05:57.116 Actually. One of the weird things is is that. 0:05:58.716 --> 0:06:02.476 This local musician who went by the name Joe Cammel 0:06:03.236 --> 0:06:07.676 band Joe Cammel and the Caucasians, they actually recorded that 0:06:07.756 --> 0:06:11.156 song and made a single out of it. 0:06:11.316 --> 0:06:12.356 Oh really it is? 0:06:12.516 --> 0:06:13.276 It exists? 0:06:13.476 --> 0:06:18.556 Yeah, yeah, because I was. I was this kid that 0:06:18.716 --> 0:06:21.116 hung out with all, like at the record stores and 0:06:21.196 --> 0:06:24.676 hung out at the you know, with around other musicians 0:06:25.516 --> 0:06:28.436 when I could get near them, and I would always say, 0:06:28.556 --> 0:06:32.636 I write songs. And this guy in this band, Joe Cambill, said, hey, 0:06:32.876 --> 0:06:34.876 let me hear one of your songs. And I went 0:06:34.916 --> 0:06:36.676 over to his house and I played him this song. 0:06:36.716 --> 0:06:38.516 He said, oh, that's great, I'm going to record it. 0:06:38.516 --> 0:06:41.956 We're gonna like go to record this song, and he did. 0:06:42.836 --> 0:06:46.476 It's fantastic. What when do you think you wrote your 0:06:46.516 --> 0:06:47.436 first good song? 0:06:48.716 --> 0:06:51.916 Well, I honestly don't think that that one was terrible. 0:06:52.076 --> 0:06:56.036 I think it's you know, it's it's not great, but 0:06:56.156 --> 0:06:58.836 it was it was good enough for somebody else to want, 0:06:59.196 --> 0:07:02.316 you know, see some potential in it. The first song 0:07:02.436 --> 0:07:05.516 I liked that I wrote was probably screen Door on 0:07:05.636 --> 0:07:10.116 the first Uncle Tupelo record. You know, that's the first 0:07:10.116 --> 0:07:13.756 one where I felt like I had said something that 0:07:14.636 --> 0:07:19.116 felt true to me and that I didn't necessarily have 0:07:19.796 --> 0:07:24.356 anybody else's song to convey that idea. I always look 0:07:24.396 --> 0:07:26.316 at it like I'm trying to make songs and a 0:07:26.516 --> 0:07:29.836 new song for me to sing that someone hasn't already written, 0:07:30.516 --> 0:07:32.916 So that one was the first one that felt like that. 0:07:33.476 --> 0:07:34.996 How old are you when you write that song? 0:07:36.996 --> 0:07:40.396 Sixteen sixteen seventeen? 0:07:41.036 --> 0:07:45.276 Yeah, so pretty. It's funny. I just I have heard 0:07:45.636 --> 0:07:49.756 musicians of various kinds answer that question over the years, 0:07:49.796 --> 0:07:52.796 and there's a whole set of them who like, you know, 0:07:52.996 --> 0:07:55.436 ten years passed between the first songs they write and 0:07:55.436 --> 0:07:59.116 the first one they like. Yeah, but you you have 0:07:59.676 --> 0:08:04.476 a much less ambiblic relationship to your early songwriting. 0:08:05.516 --> 0:08:07.356 One of the things I feel like I've had some 0:08:08.316 --> 0:08:13.796 shame of out in my life is how shamelessly I 0:08:13.836 --> 0:08:19.036 love stuff that I make. And I think over time, 0:08:19.076 --> 0:08:21.276 I've really made peace with it because I think that 0:08:21.276 --> 0:08:23.516 that's like kind of beautiful and it's kind of one 0:08:23.516 --> 0:08:26.716 of the things that's allowed me to grow. I don't 0:08:26.996 --> 0:08:29.756 I don't tend to keep liking things that I've made. 0:08:30.156 --> 0:08:33.116 I tend to get pretty dissatisfied with them over time. 0:08:33.156 --> 0:08:37.196 But when initially, even when I figure out how to 0:08:37.236 --> 0:08:39.836 play something on the guitar that someone else has done, 0:08:39.956 --> 0:08:42.196 I feel like I invented it. I have this, like, 0:08:42.356 --> 0:08:47.316 really you know, sort of delusional relationship with the joy 0:08:47.356 --> 0:08:51.396 that I take from making something, and I think that's 0:08:51.516 --> 0:08:56.516 that that really comes naturally. So a lot of times, 0:08:56.756 --> 0:08:59.076 my favorite song is always the one I'm working on. 0:09:00.476 --> 0:09:02.956 Almost invariably I was like, Wow, this is a this 0:09:02.996 --> 0:09:07.036 is really great, and it dissipates over time. 0:09:07.116 --> 0:09:09.356 But I I've always felt like that. 0:09:09.716 --> 0:09:12.676 Does that make you a bad judge of your own songwriting? 0:09:13.196 --> 0:09:15.996 I think it does, And that's part of the reason 0:09:16.036 --> 0:09:18.156 that I've had to learn a lot of different ways 0:09:18.196 --> 0:09:21.596 to get out of the get my ego out of 0:09:21.596 --> 0:09:25.236 the way, like allow things to just state for a 0:09:25.236 --> 0:09:28.156 lot longer, or put them away and forget them, forget 0:09:28.196 --> 0:09:30.116 about them so that I can come back to them 0:09:30.156 --> 0:09:33.076 with a little bit more objectivity. But in general, I 0:09:33.076 --> 0:09:35.636 think it's just kind of the spirit of it is 0:09:35.676 --> 0:09:38.716 what comes across a lot of times, and that that, 0:09:39.556 --> 0:09:42.476 in a lot of cases is enough because you know, 0:09:42.996 --> 0:09:46.596 not every song has to be the greatest song that's 0:09:46.636 --> 0:09:47.756 ever been written. 0:09:47.596 --> 0:09:50.596 But it sure helps if you feel like it is 0:09:50.756 --> 0:09:52.436 at the moment, in the moment. 0:09:52.596 --> 0:09:56.676 You know, you describe in this lovely book You've just done, 0:09:57.116 --> 0:10:00.436 how to write one song. Yeah, you describe a series 0:10:00.476 --> 0:10:06.516 of exercises songwriting exercises, and also describe a kind of 0:10:06.836 --> 0:10:09.996 what a songwriting day should look like. And I was 0:10:10.036 --> 0:10:12.756 curious before we go into that, how long did you 0:10:12.956 --> 0:10:16.196 I mean, if that's the pattern of songwriting you practice, now, 0:10:16.436 --> 0:10:18.596 how long have you been doing it that way? Did 0:10:18.596 --> 0:10:21.916 you always have this kind of very structured way about 0:10:22.036 --> 0:10:22.756 writing music. 0:10:23.356 --> 0:10:26.076 No, I think that I've as I've gotten older. I 0:10:26.076 --> 0:10:28.516 think one of the things I've really had to learn 0:10:28.556 --> 0:10:32.836 how to do is provide myself structure because I work 0:10:32.876 --> 0:10:35.156 in a profession that doesn't have a lot of structure 0:10:35.236 --> 0:10:39.316 outside of touring, which is extremely structured and routine. You know, 0:10:39.916 --> 0:10:44.756 but being home has always been a little bit dangerous 0:10:44.796 --> 0:10:48.116 for me in terms of my mental health. Though the 0:10:48.276 --> 0:10:52.036 routine has been something I've had to learn and has 0:10:52.076 --> 0:10:55.916 helped me quite a bit. That being said, I don't 0:10:55.956 --> 0:11:00.236 remember a time where I haven't felt like a kind 0:11:00.236 --> 0:11:04.756 of a nagging sense all day that I should be 0:11:05.356 --> 0:11:10.076 making something, that I should be learning something, or I 0:11:10.076 --> 0:11:13.036 should be reading something, or I should be listening to something, 0:11:13.676 --> 0:11:18.436 and that tends to provide a lot of momentum to 0:11:18.556 --> 0:11:22.716 my days. This ugly feeling that I'm avoiding almost all 0:11:22.756 --> 0:11:24.956 the time is that I don't want to get to 0:11:24.996 --> 0:11:26.556 the end of the day and feel like I didn't 0:11:26.636 --> 0:11:33.036 learn anything, or didn't make something, or just didn't participate 0:11:33.316 --> 0:11:37.756 in my life in the ways that I've found to 0:11:37.796 --> 0:11:40.236 be the most enjoyable and helpful to me. 0:11:42.236 --> 0:11:46.916 You described this ideal songwriting day in the book. When 0:11:47.036 --> 0:11:49.756 was the last ideal songwriting day you had and what 0:11:49.796 --> 0:11:50.436 did it look like? 0:11:51.236 --> 0:11:52.396 It's been a while. 0:11:52.876 --> 0:11:56.076 I think the ideal day, the last one I might 0:11:56.116 --> 0:11:59.316 have had, would have been during the process of making 0:11:59.876 --> 0:12:04.116 the album I just released, Love is the King, where 0:12:04.796 --> 0:12:06.796 you know, around eight o'clock at night or something, I 0:12:06.796 --> 0:12:08.876 would have started working on a song that I was 0:12:09.116 --> 0:12:13.636 thinking about recording. The next day, I would have you know, 0:12:13.796 --> 0:12:17.076 worked on it and played around with it, maybeate a 0:12:17.076 --> 0:12:20.636 little demo of it on my phone until like maybe midnight, 0:12:21.436 --> 0:12:24.876 gone to sleep, woke up. Probably would have finished the 0:12:24.956 --> 0:12:28.836 lyrics early in the morning, because they tend to kind 0:12:28.836 --> 0:12:33.236 of untangle themselves in my sleep a lot of times, 0:12:34.116 --> 0:12:37.556 and I like to I like to write even before 0:12:37.596 --> 0:12:40.476 I get out of bed, you know, where I feel 0:12:40.476 --> 0:12:44.916 like I'm still sort of you know, the judgment side 0:12:44.916 --> 0:12:48.156 of me is still sleeping or something, you know, And 0:12:48.236 --> 0:12:50.636 I would have gotten up and come to the studio, 0:12:51.676 --> 0:12:54.836 maybe worked on that song for a little while in 0:12:54.916 --> 0:12:58.676 the studio, head lunch, maybe taken a nap, would have 0:12:58.676 --> 0:13:02.716 gotten up from the nap, finished the song, maybe invited 0:13:03.756 --> 0:13:06.636 my younger son over to sing a harmony vocal on it. 0:13:07.436 --> 0:13:10.996 Common practice in that moment when I'm asking someone else 0:13:11.116 --> 0:13:13.556 like Sammy to sing on something would be to really 0:13:14.076 --> 0:13:16.196 focus on the lyrics and make sure they're where I 0:13:16.236 --> 0:13:16.876 want them to be. 0:13:17.516 --> 0:13:19.396 So I would have done some revisions on. 0:13:19.356 --> 0:13:22.396 That, maybe until around five or six, and have a 0:13:22.476 --> 0:13:27.716 rough mix to take home and have some dinner and 0:13:28.236 --> 0:13:31.596 listen to records generally until I get excited about trying 0:13:31.596 --> 0:13:35.116 to make something to beat something I just heard, some 0:13:35.276 --> 0:13:38.036 sort of like trying to activate some competitive side of 0:13:38.076 --> 0:13:42.116 my brain, and then start the whole process over with 0:13:42.756 --> 0:13:45.236 maybe seeing if I could, you know, come up with 0:13:45.276 --> 0:13:47.076 another song for the next day. 0:13:47.196 --> 0:13:49.716 So in your ideal world, is it a song from 0:13:49.716 --> 0:13:52.836 start to just finish in that one day, or is 0:13:52.836 --> 0:13:55.836 is it that you have little bits and pieces already 0:13:55.876 --> 0:13:58.636 there that you're going back and finding and playing with. 0:13:59.796 --> 0:14:02.156 I can do a song start to finish in one day, 0:14:02.236 --> 0:14:10.796 but typically there are little pieces of raw material that 0:14:10.956 --> 0:14:14.036 have been accumulated. Yeah. I think one of the things 0:14:14.076 --> 0:14:16.436 I might do at eight o'clock, say, the beginning. 0:14:16.196 --> 0:14:18.196 Of the day I just described, would be to go. 0:14:18.116 --> 0:14:22.916 Through my phone and find a musical idea that I'm 0:14:22.956 --> 0:14:26.116 excited by that I don't know, just catches me enough 0:14:26.796 --> 0:14:31.916 unaware to start dreaming about it and start like fantasizing 0:14:31.916 --> 0:14:34.076 about where it could go or what it could sound like. 0:14:34.476 --> 0:14:35.916 Do you have your phone with you right now? Can 0:14:35.956 --> 0:14:37.556 you play as a musical idea off the phone? 0:14:38.076 --> 0:14:38.356 Sure? 0:14:39.156 --> 0:14:39.716 Let's see. 0:14:41.116 --> 0:14:42.996 Well, this one sounds a little bit maybe a little 0:14:42.996 --> 0:15:11.796 bit more finished than normal. It's the tunnel at the 0:15:11.876 --> 0:15:12.636 end of the light. 0:15:14.476 --> 0:15:17.276 So that is that? Has that little bit been turned 0:15:17.316 --> 0:15:19.436 into a song yet or is it just waiting? 0:15:20.156 --> 0:15:20.756 It's waiting. 0:15:21.236 --> 0:15:24.676 I mean there's and then there's stuff that's maybe I 0:15:24.676 --> 0:15:38.196 don't even know what this is, just some chords I 0:15:38.196 --> 0:15:44.436 thought were pretty uh, but yeah, there's there. There are dozens, 0:15:44.676 --> 0:15:49.156 or not dozens. There's probably literally hundreds of those things 0:15:49.156 --> 0:15:51.356 in my phone. When they stack up a little bit, 0:15:51.396 --> 0:15:54.636 I usually transfer some to the computer here at the loft, 0:15:54.756 --> 0:15:56.876 so they're at least in a couple places. 0:15:57.276 --> 0:16:00.756 Yeah, and now time for a coffee break with my 0:16:00.876 --> 0:16:04.476 Broken Record co host, Malcolm Gladwell. This coffee break is 0:16:04.476 --> 0:16:06.556 brought to you by the Starbucks Coffee Company. 0:16:07.316 --> 0:16:08.196 With me today, I. 0:16:08.196 --> 0:16:12.356 Have the esteemed co host of this show, Malcolm Gladwell, 0:16:12.396 --> 0:16:15.036 who I don't think I'm telling tales out of school 0:16:15.076 --> 0:16:17.516 here is quite a coffee drinker, right. 0:16:17.756 --> 0:16:22.756 I enjoy coffee and a coffee shop aficionado. I'm it's 0:16:22.796 --> 0:16:25.716 more than just its experience. It's not just a coffee. 0:16:25.756 --> 0:16:27.836 I spend enormous amounts of time in coffee shops. 0:16:28.396 --> 0:16:31.196 Would you say you would rather drink coffee in a 0:16:31.196 --> 0:16:32.876 coffee shop or would you rather take it to go? 0:16:33.196 --> 0:16:38.356 Always in? Always in? Yeah, you know, I'm not a 0:16:38.356 --> 0:16:40.436 guy who like takes it in, like sits in my 0:16:40.516 --> 0:16:42.996 car and drinks my coffee my car. Otherwise you're you're 0:16:43.076 --> 0:16:46.956 ruining the fun, which is settle in a nice table 0:16:47.196 --> 0:16:52.156 sun streaming in the window, eaves dropping on conversations, and 0:16:52.196 --> 0:16:57.956 then you you enjoy your cup of coffee. Okay, I'm like, 0:16:58.236 --> 0:17:01.276 this is a little moment in my day where I 0:17:01.276 --> 0:17:05.436 can reflect and relax and sit back with a cup 0:17:05.476 --> 0:17:09.396 of coffee. Wow, there's a moment in the afternoon. That's 0:17:09.436 --> 0:17:13.636 my coffee moment. No, morning, Coffee's an experience. That's the thing. 0:17:14.156 --> 0:17:17.476 I have my experience in the afternoon. In that little 0:17:17.516 --> 0:17:20.236 moment in the middle of the afternoon, when everything's quiet, 0:17:20.276 --> 0:17:23.836 you get feeling a little bit like calm, and you know, 0:17:24.596 --> 0:17:26.516 and I go and I sit in the coffee shop 0:17:26.596 --> 0:17:31.556 and enjoy myself. Remember the first time going to a Starbucks, Malcolm, 0:17:31.756 --> 0:17:32.116 I do? 0:17:32.636 --> 0:17:32.876 I do. 0:17:33.596 --> 0:17:36.516 I had all these friends who they were, all these 0:17:36.636 --> 0:17:39.836 grow friends, I mean from Stanford. They all lived in 0:17:39.836 --> 0:17:45.276 in San Francisco, and everybody came east for a wedding. 0:17:45.996 --> 0:17:50.516 It's in Long Island. And I remember on the morning 0:17:50.556 --> 0:17:54.036 of the wedding, Chris, who was the chief hipster of 0:17:54.116 --> 0:17:57.236 the California crowd, said, this is like, I don't know 0:17:57.236 --> 0:18:00.076 when this was mid nineties. Maybe Chris says to the 0:18:00.636 --> 0:18:05.076 assembled multitudes, I hear there's a Starbucks finally out here. 0:18:05.556 --> 0:18:08.116 We piled into cars that we drove somewhere like it 0:18:08.156 --> 0:18:12.116 was somewhere in and you know, central Long Island. Remember this, 0:18:12.156 --> 0:18:14.956 It was quite the journey and we were like, whoa, 0:18:15.356 --> 0:18:18.836 it's like this thing called Starbucks had finally arrived in 0:18:18.876 --> 0:18:21.796 Long Island because I guess it starts I mean clearly 0:18:21.796 --> 0:18:25.436 starts in Seattle, right. Yeah, it's very exciting, remember that. 0:18:25.556 --> 0:18:27.556 I remember it was like it was like a destination. 0:18:27.876 --> 0:18:30.396 It's like, that's what we're doing on the morning of 0:18:30.396 --> 0:18:33.596 the wedding, getting a cappuccino. 0:18:34.916 --> 0:18:38.196 It remains, it remains thirty thirty years on, remains a 0:18:38.236 --> 0:18:39.596 destination for me. 0:18:39.996 --> 0:18:42.556 Yes, yes, I'm sure that Starbucks is still there. 0:18:43.116 --> 0:18:48.556 Absolutely leads me to want to ask sort of seasons aside, 0:18:48.716 --> 0:18:52.116 are you a hot coffee guy or only hot colbrew? 0:18:52.316 --> 0:18:56.316 Only hot? To me, the whole coffee on ice thing 0:18:56.436 --> 0:18:58.916 is like, what are you doing? Wow, that's not We're 0:18:58.916 --> 0:19:01.436 not here for that. On a on a ninety eight 0:19:01.516 --> 0:19:04.716 degree humid day, I will go in and I'm having 0:19:04.836 --> 0:19:06.436 and there's always a point of confusion because I'll go 0:19:06.436 --> 0:19:08.676 into cofee, Im sall, I have a capuccino and there's 0:19:08.676 --> 0:19:12.516 a pawn and they're expecting me to say iced, and 0:19:12.596 --> 0:19:15.996 I say not iced. This is not I'm not doing it. 0:19:16.076 --> 0:19:18.996 I'm not. I'm not. I'm not, like, you know, turning 0:19:19.036 --> 0:19:21.876 my back on my coffee experience just because the weather's 0:19:22.276 --> 0:19:25.596 on the warm side. No, No, the experience remains the same. 0:19:25.716 --> 0:19:28.796 It doesn't matter where I am having my cappuccino and 0:19:28.836 --> 0:19:30.516 it's not got ice in it, it's hot. 0:19:30.756 --> 0:19:33.556 I gotta say, I'm running through my memories of going 0:19:33.556 --> 0:19:36.076 to coffee with you, and I really can't place an 0:19:36.236 --> 0:19:37.556 iced coffee in your hand at all. I think you're 0:19:37.556 --> 0:19:40.556 telling the truth there that you really are not doing ices. 0:19:40.996 --> 0:19:43.356 Before we end this coffee break, I gotta ask you, Malcolm. Yeah, 0:19:43.556 --> 0:19:47.476 there's been a whole wave of oat milk drinkers of late. 0:19:47.756 --> 0:19:53.156 Not doing it almond milk. I am aware and grateful 0:19:53.396 --> 0:19:56.676 for the option, and I don't look down anyone who 0:19:56.716 --> 0:20:00.276 wants to go to the oat milk route. I am 0:20:00.916 --> 0:20:06.476 an unwavering traditionalist. I have a cappuccino that is hot 0:20:06.596 --> 0:20:08.996 with whole milk. I don't, I don't. I never wave 0:20:09.236 --> 0:20:11.956 from that. My thing is, you know, I'm very very 0:20:12.876 --> 0:20:14.676 you know. My whole thing on now, I've only only 0:20:14.756 --> 0:20:17.516 drunk five liquids. I was gonna be yeah right, it's 0:20:17.596 --> 0:20:23.156 red wine, it's water, it's espresso based beverages, it's milk, 0:20:23.916 --> 0:20:26.716 and it's tea. That's it. And does this stand still 0:20:26.756 --> 0:20:29.556 to this day? Yeah? Never waver never waver. 0:20:29.916 --> 0:20:32.356 All right, man, Well, thanks for the coffee break, Malcolm, 0:20:32.316 --> 0:20:34.916 all right, justin all right. I know Malcolm said he 0:20:34.916 --> 0:20:36.956 doesn't like ice drinks, but I happen to love him. 0:20:37.076 --> 0:20:38.876 And so after we talked, I went down to my 0:20:38.916 --> 0:20:41.436 local Starbucks here in Long Beach to try their ice 0:20:41.596 --> 0:20:46.076 or Chotta oat milk shaken espresso. And this drink is incredible. 0:20:46.516 --> 0:20:49.036 It's a blonde espresso combined with or chata syrup that 0:20:49.076 --> 0:20:52.636 delivers a fusion of cinnamon, vanilla, and rice flavors, shaking 0:20:52.636 --> 0:20:55.876 together with ice and topped with oat milk. I'm a 0:20:55.876 --> 0:20:57.836 person who likes to explore the Starbucks menu. I'll go 0:20:57.916 --> 0:21:00.476 up and down that thing whenever I'm at Starbucks. But 0:21:00.916 --> 0:21:02.236 there are a lot of people and I can be 0:21:02.356 --> 0:21:04.796 this way too that like the Staples. If you're one 0:21:04.836 --> 0:21:09.876 of those people, this drink still retains that wonderful coffee flavor, 0:21:10.356 --> 0:21:13.076 but on the back end chases it with this wonderful 0:21:13.676 --> 0:21:17.796 milky cinnamony or Chota flavor as well, and it has something, 0:21:17.836 --> 0:21:20.876 in my opinion for everyone. Your eyes for Shota oat 0:21:20.876 --> 0:21:23.796 milkshake and espresso is ready at Starbucks. 0:21:24.436 --> 0:21:27.956 So I'm investinated by this process. How long might some 0:21:28.116 --> 0:21:31.076 a little bit linger on your phone or in your 0:21:31.196 --> 0:21:34.316 archive before you use it? Is there stuff? And if 0:21:34.356 --> 0:21:36.396 we went into the you said sometimes you download them 0:21:36.396 --> 0:21:39.196 on at the loft. How far back would we have 0:21:39.236 --> 0:21:41.276 stuff there from ten years ago you've never used? 0:21:41.636 --> 0:21:43.636 Yeah, I mean probably there are. 0:21:44.756 --> 0:21:48.276 I used to do it on cassettes and basically I 0:21:48.356 --> 0:21:52.156 used to just leave a cassette in a dictaphone old 0:21:52.196 --> 0:21:55.836 style like what you would have Steno would have used, 0:21:55.916 --> 0:22:00.716 or someone in an you know, secretary pool, and I 0:22:00.716 --> 0:22:03.996 would just leave it on the coffee table and until 0:22:03.996 --> 0:22:06.116 it filled up, and then I'd put another cassette in. 0:22:06.156 --> 0:22:10.476 And there's there are dozens of those cassettes on the 0:22:10.756 --> 0:22:14.396 Suki ray album that I made under the name Tweetye. 0:22:14.596 --> 0:22:18.756 There's a song on there that I finished after fourteen years. 0:22:19.076 --> 0:22:22.356 I think what song was it. It's called I'll Sing It. 0:22:23.036 --> 0:22:24.636 Was there a little snippet of it that was the 0:22:24.676 --> 0:22:25.596 original snippet. 0:22:25.756 --> 0:22:28.596 It's actually in the track I actually just played over 0:22:28.716 --> 0:22:34.356 the cassette version. Yeah, yeah, And then I think that 0:22:34.516 --> 0:22:37.036 ended up on the Summer Teeth box set that we 0:22:37.156 --> 0:22:39.516 just put out because it was written around the same 0:22:39.556 --> 0:22:40.676 time as Summer Teeth. 0:22:41.116 --> 0:22:43.956 Yeah, when you go back and find a little snippet 0:22:43.956 --> 0:22:46.676 like that, do you remember when you created the snippet 0:22:46.796 --> 0:22:47.476 or is that gone? 0:22:47.996 --> 0:22:50.996 It depends. A lot of times I don't remember at all. 0:22:51.036 --> 0:22:54.916 I have no recollection at all of a lot of 0:22:54.916 --> 0:22:56.876 times I don't even remember the tuning, and I have 0:22:56.916 --> 0:22:59.476 to like sit and figure out because I use a 0:22:59.516 --> 0:23:02.516 lot of different tunings, and I really hate it when 0:23:02.556 --> 0:23:05.276 I don't bother to tune the guitar to a standard 0:23:05.316 --> 0:23:08.116 pitch because then it makes it even harder to figure 0:23:08.156 --> 0:23:10.316 out what tuning I'm in and stuff like that. So 0:23:10.356 --> 0:23:14.676 a lot of times it's it's it's completely gone wherever 0:23:14.796 --> 0:23:17.276 it happened, which is kind of I love it when 0:23:17.316 --> 0:23:19.996 that happens, even though it can be frustrating trying to 0:23:20.516 --> 0:23:21.116 relearn it. 0:23:21.676 --> 0:23:23.196 But then there are times. 0:23:22.876 --> 0:23:29.196 Where I absolutely have a distinct memory of where I 0:23:29.276 --> 0:23:31.756 was and what was happening. And a lot of times 0:23:31.796 --> 0:23:36.876 that's because there are other ambient elements that it made 0:23:36.876 --> 0:23:40.716 their way onto the recording. I like, say, backstage and 0:23:41.276 --> 0:23:44.276 somebody in Wilco walks through and says something, and I 0:23:44.396 --> 0:23:49.596