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Speaker 1: Pushkin, we have a pretty great episode from our back

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Speaker 1: catalog to play for you today. In late twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: Wilco's frontman and songwriter released his compact How to Write

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Speaker 1: One Song Book, an immense guide for bringing out anyone's

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Speaker 1: inner latent creativity through songwriting. This is just the kind

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Speaker 1: of idea that my co host, Malcolm Gladwell loves, and

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Speaker 1: so the two had a nice little conversation about the

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Speaker 1: book and about what's made Tweety one of the consummate

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Speaker 1: songwriters of the twentieth century so far, So enjoy this

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Speaker 1: episode from twenty twenty. This is broken record, real musicians,

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Speaker 1: real conversations.

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Speaker 2: Can I start with this tantalizing little anecdote. You're telling

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Speaker 2: your book that when your dad got mad, he would

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Speaker 2: go into the basement and write poems. And all I

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Speaker 2: could think of is this is the Jeff Tweety origin story.

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Speaker 3: Pretty much? I think, so yeah, it was your father musical.

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Speaker 4: My father was a frustrated entertainer. He got my mom

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Speaker 4: pregnant in high school and they dropped out and he

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Speaker 4: got a job on the railroad, and I think his

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Speaker 4: whole life, I think that he wished that he had

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Speaker 4: had an opportunity to be on stage somehow. But he

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Speaker 4: was not particularly musical. But he was entertaining, that's for sure.

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Speaker 4: But he aspired to be musical. He always he liked

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Speaker 4: to sing. He drank a lot, and he got up

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Speaker 4: at every wedding and embarrassed us, terribly humiliated us in

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Speaker 4: lots of cases.

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Speaker 3: But were his poems?

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Speaker 2: Were they any good?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I know my dad was brilliant, you know, they weren't.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that they were good in like a

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Speaker 4: Robert Frost way or but they might have been good

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Speaker 4: in a Jimmy Stewart kind of or Ogden Nash maybe

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Speaker 4: at the high end of his aspirations. But you know,

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Speaker 4: he wouldn't have had any of those references other than

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Speaker 4: Jimmy Stewart. So but he did, you know, he made

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Speaker 4: un requited forays into indulging his musical side many times,

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Speaker 4: like he bought uh an organ from the mall that

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Speaker 4: the salesman claimed would teach him how to play, and

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Speaker 4: he would just sit there and watch the lights flash

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Speaker 4: as it would play itself, and drink a beer. It

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Speaker 4: was a I have a lot of memories of that.

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Speaker 2: But the poem he wrote the poems when you said

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Speaker 2: when he was angry.

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Speaker 3: That was my memory of them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I sadly, you know, a couple of summers

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Speaker 4: ago when he passed away, we you know, we emptied

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Speaker 4: out the house, the house that I the only house

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Speaker 4: I'd ever lived in when you know, like my parents

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Speaker 4: bought when my mom was pregnant with me. And I

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Speaker 4: found a lot of his homework from when he taught

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Speaker 4: himself or basically learned computing, early on math homework and

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Speaker 4: stuff like that. But I didn't find any of the

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Speaker 4: notebooks that had any of the poems.

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Speaker 3: So I suspect that he just got it off his

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Speaker 3: chest and then threw them away, you know, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I just I just love these kinds of generational parallels.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like, you know, if you were on the couch,

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Speaker 2: I would say, you're like tweety two point zero, you're

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Speaker 2: like the do over, the frustrated musicians who's writing these

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Speaker 2: essentially lyrics, and then you're you. You've come along and

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Speaker 2: you've turned it into an art.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean, uh, there's there are tons of

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Speaker 4: parallels that I mean. I mean it's disturbing as you

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Speaker 4: get older, how much you start to look like your parents,

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Speaker 4: and I look like exactly like my dad. And you know,

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Speaker 4: I think he suffered from a lot of the same

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Speaker 4: mood disorders that I've dealt with in my life. But

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Speaker 4: he clumsily, but somehow, you know, as far as employment goes,

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Speaker 4: and far as far as like not having worsening consequences

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Speaker 4: which would be typical of alcoholism, he managed to medicate

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Speaker 4: himself clumsily for his entire life, you know, for anxiety.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure he had anxiety and depression and and yet

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Speaker 4: and he did, instinctively seem to have turned to some

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Speaker 4: of the same things that have provided some solace for

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Speaker 4: me that weren't unhealthy, you know, like getting things off

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Speaker 4: his chest. And you know, I was indulged a lot,

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Speaker 4: perhaps because I was a do over.

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Speaker 2: When did you write your first song? Do you remember.

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Speaker 4: The first song I remember writing? And I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 4: that there were songs before this, But the first song

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Speaker 4: I remember writing was a song called your Little World,

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Speaker 4: and it was about a girl and her not having

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Speaker 4: enough room in her world for me.

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Speaker 2: And how old are you when are you writing?

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Speaker 3: Maybe thirteen fourteen?

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Speaker 2: You don't remember it, do you?

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Speaker 4: Your little World's much too small? Oh, I ain't got

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Speaker 4: no room at all, So yeah, I was. I can

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Speaker 4: remember it, I could play it.

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Speaker 3: Actually. One of the weird things is is that.

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Speaker 4: This local musician who went by the name Joe Cammel

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Speaker 4: band Joe Cammel and the Caucasians, they actually recorded that

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Speaker 4: song and made a single out of it.

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Speaker 2: Oh really it is?

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Speaker 3: It exists?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because I was. I was this kid that

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Speaker 4: hung out with all, like at the record stores and

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Speaker 4: hung out at the you know, with around other musicians

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Speaker 4: when I could get near them, and I would always say,

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Speaker 4: I write songs. And this guy in this band, Joe Cambill, said, hey,

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Speaker 4: let me hear one of your songs. And I went

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Speaker 4: over to his house and I played him this song.

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Speaker 4: He said, oh, that's great, I'm going to record it.

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Speaker 4: We're gonna like go to record this song, and he did.

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Speaker 2: It's fantastic. What when do you think you wrote your

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Speaker 2: first good song?

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Speaker 4: Well, I honestly don't think that that one was terrible.

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Speaker 4: I think it's you know, it's it's not great, but

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Speaker 4: it was it was good enough for somebody else to want,

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Speaker 4: you know, see some potential in it. The first song

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Speaker 4: I liked that I wrote was probably screen Door on

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Speaker 4: the first Uncle Tupelo record. You know, that's the first

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Speaker 4: one where I felt like I had said something that

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Speaker 4: felt true to me and that I didn't necessarily have

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Speaker 4: anybody else's song to convey that idea. I always look

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Speaker 4: at it like I'm trying to make songs and a

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Speaker 4: new song for me to sing that someone hasn't already written,

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Speaker 4: So that one was the first one that felt like that.

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Speaker 2: How old are you when you write that song?

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Speaker 3: Sixteen sixteen seventeen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so pretty. It's funny. I just I have heard

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Speaker 2: musicians of various kinds answer that question over the years,

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Speaker 2: and there's a whole set of them who like, you know,

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Speaker 2: ten years passed between the first songs they write and

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Speaker 2: the first one they like. Yeah, but you you have

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Speaker 2: a much less ambiblic relationship to your early songwriting.

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Speaker 4: One of the things I feel like I've had some

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Speaker 4: shame of out in my life is how shamelessly I

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Speaker 4: love stuff that I make. And I think over time,

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Speaker 4: I've really made peace with it because I think that

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Speaker 4: that's like kind of beautiful and it's kind of one

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Speaker 4: of the things that's allowed me to grow. I don't

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Speaker 4: I don't tend to keep liking things that I've made.

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Speaker 4: I tend to get pretty dissatisfied with them over time.

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Speaker 4: But when initially, even when I figure out how to

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Speaker 4: play something on the guitar that someone else has done,

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Speaker 4: I feel like I invented it. I have this, like,

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Speaker 4: really you know, sort of delusional relationship with the joy

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Speaker 4: that I take from making something, and I think that's

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Speaker 4: that that really comes naturally. So a lot of times,

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Speaker 4: my favorite song is always the one I'm working on.

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Speaker 4: Almost invariably I was like, Wow, this is a this

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Speaker 4: is really great, and it dissipates over time.

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Speaker 3: But I I've always felt like that.

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Speaker 2: Does that make you a bad judge of your own songwriting?

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Speaker 4: I think it does, And that's part of the reason

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Speaker 4: that I've had to learn a lot of different ways

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Speaker 4: to get out of the get my ego out of

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Speaker 4: the way, like allow things to just state for a

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Speaker 4: lot longer, or put them away and forget them, forget

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Speaker 4: about them so that I can come back to them

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Speaker 4: with a little bit more objectivity. But in general, I

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Speaker 4: think it's just kind of the spirit of it is

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Speaker 4: what comes across a lot of times, and that that,

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Speaker 4: in a lot of cases is enough because you know,

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Speaker 4: not every song has to be the greatest song that's

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Speaker 4: ever been written.

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Speaker 3: But it sure helps if you feel like it is

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Speaker 3: at the moment, in the moment.

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Speaker 2: You know, you describe in this lovely book You've just done,

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Speaker 2: how to write one song. Yeah, you describe a series

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Speaker 2: of exercises songwriting exercises, and also describe a kind of

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Speaker 2: what a songwriting day should look like. And I was

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Speaker 2: curious before we go into that, how long did you

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Speaker 2: I mean, if that's the pattern of songwriting you practice, now,

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Speaker 2: how long have you been doing it that way? Did

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Speaker 2: you always have this kind of very structured way about

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Speaker 2: writing music.

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Speaker 4: No, I think that I've as I've gotten older. I

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Speaker 4: think one of the things I've really had to learn

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Speaker 4: how to do is provide myself structure because I work

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Speaker 4: in a profession that doesn't have a lot of structure

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Speaker 4: outside of touring, which is extremely structured and routine. You know,

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Speaker 4: but being home has always been a little bit dangerous

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Speaker 4: for me in terms of my mental health. Though the

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Speaker 4: routine has been something I've had to learn and has

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Speaker 4: helped me quite a bit. That being said, I don't

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Speaker 4: remember a time where I haven't felt like a kind

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Speaker 4: of a nagging sense all day that I should be

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Speaker 4: making something, that I should be learning something, or I

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Speaker 4: should be reading something, or I should be listening to something,

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Speaker 4: and that tends to provide a lot of momentum to

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Speaker 4: my days. This ugly feeling that I'm avoiding almost all

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Speaker 4: the time is that I don't want to get to

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Speaker 4: the end of the day and feel like I didn't

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Speaker 4: learn anything, or didn't make something, or just didn't participate

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Speaker 4: in my life in the ways that I've found to

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Speaker 4: be the most enjoyable and helpful to me.

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Speaker 2: You described this ideal songwriting day in the book. When

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Speaker 2: was the last ideal songwriting day you had and what

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Speaker 2: did it look like?

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Speaker 3: It's been a while.

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Speaker 4: I think the ideal day, the last one I might

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Speaker 4: have had, would have been during the process of making

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Speaker 4: the album I just released, Love is the King, where

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Speaker 4: you know, around eight o'clock at night or something, I

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Speaker 4: would have started working on a song that I was

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Speaker 4: thinking about recording. The next day, I would have you know,

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Speaker 4: worked on it and played around with it, maybeate a

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Speaker 4: little demo of it on my phone until like maybe midnight,

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Speaker 4: gone to sleep, woke up. Probably would have finished the

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Speaker 4: lyrics early in the morning, because they tend to kind

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Speaker 4: of untangle themselves in my sleep a lot of times,

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Speaker 4: and I like to I like to write even before

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Speaker 4: I get out of bed, you know, where I feel

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Speaker 4: like I'm still sort of you know, the judgment side

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Speaker 4: of me is still sleeping or something, you know, And

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Speaker 4: I would have gotten up and come to the studio,

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Speaker 4: maybe worked on that song for a little while in

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Speaker 4: the studio, head lunch, maybe taken a nap, would have

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Speaker 4: gotten up from the nap, finished the song, maybe invited

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Speaker 4: my younger son over to sing a harmony vocal on it.

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Speaker 4: Common practice in that moment when I'm asking someone else

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Speaker 4: like Sammy to sing on something would be to really

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Speaker 4: focus on the lyrics and make sure they're where I

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Speaker 4: want them to be.

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Speaker 3: So I would have done some revisions on.

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Speaker 4: That, maybe until around five or six, and have a

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Speaker 4: rough mix to take home and have some dinner and

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Speaker 4: listen to records generally until I get excited about trying

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Speaker 4: to make something to beat something I just heard, some

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Speaker 4: sort of like trying to activate some competitive side of

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Speaker 4: my brain, and then start the whole process over with

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Speaker 4: maybe seeing if I could, you know, come up with

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Speaker 4: another song for the next day.

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Speaker 2: So in your ideal world, is it a song from

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Speaker 2: start to just finish in that one day, or is

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Speaker 2: is it that you have little bits and pieces already

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Speaker 2: there that you're going back and finding and playing with.

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Speaker 4: I can do a song start to finish in one day,

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Speaker 4: but typically there are little pieces of raw material that

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Speaker 4: have been accumulated. Yeah. I think one of the things

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Speaker 4: I might do at eight o'clock, say, the beginning.

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Speaker 3: Of the day I just described, would be to go.

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Speaker 4: Through my phone and find a musical idea that I'm

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Speaker 4: excited by that I don't know, just catches me enough

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Speaker 4: unaware to start dreaming about it and start like fantasizing

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Speaker 4: about where it could go or what it could sound like.

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Speaker 2: Do you have your phone with you right now? Can

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Speaker 2: you play as a musical idea off the phone?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 2: Let's see.

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Speaker 4: Well, this one sounds a little bit maybe a little

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Speaker 4: bit more finished than normal. It's the tunnel at the

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Speaker 4: end of the light.

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Speaker 2: So that is that? Has that little bit been turned

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Speaker 2: into a song yet or is it just waiting?

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Speaker 3: It's waiting.

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Speaker 4: I mean there's and then there's stuff that's maybe I

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Speaker 4: don't even know what this is, just some chords I

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Speaker 4: thought were pretty uh, but yeah, there's there. There are dozens,

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Speaker 4: or not dozens. There's probably literally hundreds of those things

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Speaker 4: in my phone. When they stack up a little bit,

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Speaker 4: I usually transfer some to the computer here at the loft,

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Speaker 4: so they're at least in a couple places.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and now time for a coffee break with my

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Speaker 1: Broken Record co host, Malcolm Gladwell. This coffee break is

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Speaker 1: brought to you by the Starbucks Coffee Company.

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Speaker 2: With me today, I.

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Speaker 1: Have the esteemed co host of this show, Malcolm Gladwell,

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Speaker 1: who I don't think I'm telling tales out of school

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Speaker 1: here is quite a coffee drinker, right.

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Speaker 2: I enjoy coffee and a coffee shop aficionado. I'm it's

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Speaker 2: more than just its experience. It's not just a coffee.

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Speaker 2: I spend enormous amounts of time in coffee shops.

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Speaker 1: Would you say you would rather drink coffee in a

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Speaker 1: coffee shop or would you rather take it to go?

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Speaker 2: Always in? Always in? Yeah, you know, I'm not a

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Speaker 2: guy who like takes it in, like sits in my

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Speaker 2: car and drinks my coffee my car. Otherwise you're you're

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Speaker 2: ruining the fun, which is settle in a nice table

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Speaker 2: sun streaming in the window, eaves dropping on conversations, and

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Speaker 2: then you you enjoy your cup of coffee. Okay, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: this is a little moment in my day where I

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Speaker 2: can reflect and relax and sit back with a cup

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Speaker 2: of coffee. Wow, there's a moment in the afternoon. That's

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Speaker 2: my coffee moment. No, morning, Coffee's an experience. That's the thing.

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Speaker 2: I have my experience in the afternoon. In that little

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Speaker 2: moment in the middle of the afternoon, when everything's quiet,

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Speaker 2: you get feeling a little bit like calm, and you know,

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Speaker 2: and I go and I sit in the coffee shop

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Speaker 2: and enjoy myself. Remember the first time going to a Starbucks, Malcolm,

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Speaker 2: I do?

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 2: I had all these friends who they were, all these

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Speaker 2: grow friends, I mean from Stanford. They all lived in

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Speaker 2: in San Francisco, and everybody came east for a wedding.

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Speaker 2: It's in Long Island. And I remember on the morning

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Speaker 2: of the wedding, Chris, who was the chief hipster of

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Speaker 2: the California crowd, said, this is like, I don't know

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Speaker 2: when this was mid nineties. Maybe Chris says to the

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Speaker 2: assembled multitudes, I hear there's a Starbucks finally out here.

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Speaker 2: We piled into cars that we drove somewhere like it

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Speaker 2: was somewhere in and you know, central Long Island. Remember this,

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Speaker 2: It was quite the journey and we were like, whoa,

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Speaker 2: it's like this thing called Starbucks had finally arrived in

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Speaker 2: Long Island because I guess it starts I mean clearly

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Speaker 2: starts in Seattle, right. Yeah, it's very exciting, remember that.

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Speaker 2: I remember it was like it was like a destination.

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Speaker 2: It's like, that's what we're doing on the morning of

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Speaker 2: the wedding, getting a cappuccino.

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Speaker 1: It remains, it remains thirty thirty years on, remains a

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Speaker 1: destination for me.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I'm sure that Starbucks is still there.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely leads me to want to ask sort of seasons aside,

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Speaker 1: are you a hot coffee guy or only hot colbrew?

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Speaker 2: Only hot? To me, the whole coffee on ice thing

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Speaker 2: is like, what are you doing? Wow, that's not We're

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Speaker 2: not here for that. On a on a ninety eight

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Speaker 2: degree humid day, I will go in and I'm having

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Speaker 2: and there's always a point of confusion because I'll go

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Speaker 2: into cofee, Im sall, I have a capuccino and there's

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Speaker 2: a pawn and they're expecting me to say iced, and

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Speaker 2: I say not iced. This is not I'm not doing it.

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Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not. I'm not, like, you know, turning

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Speaker 2: my back on my coffee experience just because the weather's

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Speaker 2: on the warm side. No, No, the experience remains the same.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter where I am having my cappuccino and

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Speaker 2: it's not got ice in it, it's hot.

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Speaker 1: I gotta say, I'm running through my memories of going

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Speaker 1: to coffee with you, and I really can't place an

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Speaker 1: iced coffee in your hand at all. I think you're

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Speaker 1: telling the truth there that you really are not doing ices.

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Speaker 1: Before we end this coffee break, I gotta ask you, Malcolm. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's been a whole wave of oat milk drinkers of late.

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Speaker 2: Not doing it almond milk. I am aware and grateful

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Speaker 2: for the option, and I don't look down anyone who

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Speaker 2: wants to go to the oat milk route. I am

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Speaker 2: an unwavering traditionalist. I have a cappuccino that is hot

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Speaker 2: with whole milk. I don't, I don't. I never wave

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Speaker 2: from that. My thing is, you know, I'm very very

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Speaker 2: you know. My whole thing on now, I've only only

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Speaker 2: drunk five liquids. I was gonna be yeah right, it's

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Speaker 2: red wine, it's water, it's espresso based beverages, it's milk,

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Speaker 2: and it's tea. That's it. And does this stand still

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Speaker 2: to this day? Yeah? Never waver never waver.

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Speaker 1: All right, man, Well, thanks for the coffee break, Malcolm,

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Speaker 1: all right, justin all right. I know Malcolm said he

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Speaker 1: doesn't like ice drinks, but I happen to love him.

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Speaker 1: And so after we talked, I went down to my

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Speaker 1: local Starbucks here in Long Beach to try their ice

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Speaker 1: or Chotta oat milk shaken espresso. And this drink is incredible.

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Speaker 1: It's a blonde espresso combined with or chata syrup that

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Speaker 1: delivers a fusion of cinnamon, vanilla, and rice flavors, shaking

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Speaker 1: together with ice and topped with oat milk. I'm a

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Speaker 1: person who likes to explore the Starbucks menu. I'll go

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Speaker 1: up and down that thing whenever I'm at Starbucks. But

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of people and I can be

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Speaker 1: this way too that like the Staples. If you're one

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Speaker 1: of those people, this drink still retains that wonderful coffee flavor,

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Speaker 1: but on the back end chases it with this wonderful

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Speaker 1: milky cinnamony or Chota flavor as well, and it has something,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion for everyone. Your eyes for Shota oat

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Speaker 1: milkshake and espresso is ready at Starbucks.

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Speaker 2: So I'm investinated by this process. How long might some

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Speaker 2: a little bit linger on your phone or in your

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Speaker 2: archive before you use it? Is there stuff? And if

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Speaker 2: we went into the you said sometimes you download them

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Speaker 2: on at the loft. How far back would we have

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Speaker 2: stuff there from ten years ago you've never used?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean probably there are.

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Speaker 4: I used to do it on cassettes and basically I

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Speaker 4: used to just leave a cassette in a dictaphone old

365
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Speaker 4: style like what you would have Steno would have used,

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Speaker 4: or someone in an you know, secretary pool, and I

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Speaker 4: would just leave it on the coffee table and until

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Speaker 4: it filled up, and then I'd put another cassette in.

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Speaker 4: And there's there are dozens of those cassettes on the

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Speaker 4: Suki ray album that I made under the name Tweetye.

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Speaker 4: There's a song on there that I finished after fourteen years.

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Speaker 3: I think what song was it. It's called I'll Sing It.

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Speaker 2: Was there a little snippet of it that was the

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Speaker 2: original snippet.

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Speaker 4: It's actually in the track I actually just played over

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Speaker 4: the cassette version. Yeah, yeah, And then I think that

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Speaker 4: ended up on the Summer Teeth box set that we

378
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Speaker 4: just put out because it was written around the same

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Speaker 4: time as Summer Teeth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when you go back and find a little snippet

381
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Speaker 2: like that, do you remember when you created the snippet

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Speaker 2: or is that gone?

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Speaker 4: It depends. A lot of times I don't remember at all.

384
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Speaker 4: I have no recollection at all of a lot of

385
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Speaker 4: times I don't even remember the tuning, and I have

386
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Speaker 4: to like sit and figure out because I use a

387
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Speaker 4: lot of different tunings, and I really hate it when

388
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Speaker 4: I don't bother to tune the guitar to a standard

389
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Speaker 4: pitch because then it makes it even harder to figure

390
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Speaker 4: out what tuning I'm in and stuff like that. So

391
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Speaker 4: a lot of times it's it's it's completely gone wherever

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Speaker 4: it happened, which is kind of I love it when

393
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Speaker 4: that happens, even though it can be frustrating trying to

394
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Speaker 4: relearn it.

395
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Speaker 3: But then there are times.

396
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Speaker 4: Where I absolutely have a distinct memory of where I

397
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Speaker 4: was and what was happening. And a lot of times

398
00:23:31,796 --> 00:23:36,876
Speaker 4: that's because there are other ambient elements that it made

399
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Speaker 4: their way onto the recording. I like, say, backstage and

400
00:23:41,276 --> 00:23:44,276
Speaker 4: somebody in Wilco walks through and says something, and I

401
00:23:44,396 --> 00:23:49,596
Speaker 4: can viscerally feel that that room and I'll know even

402
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Speaker 4: what city it was. In a lot of cases, sometimes

403
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Speaker 4: when I'm doing it in hotel rooms in Europe and

404
00:23:54,756 --> 00:23:58,516
Speaker 4: you have the windows open. Whenever we're fortunate enough to

405
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Speaker 4: find a hotel that has windows that open, you hear

406
00:24:02,076 --> 00:24:05,716
Speaker 4: like people leading on at the cafes or something like that.

407
00:24:05,916 --> 00:24:09,316
Speaker 4: That's those are always really kind of special recordings. It

408
00:24:09,596 --> 00:24:12,396
Speaker 4: a lot of times mean a lot to me, even

409
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Speaker 4: without them being finished.

410
00:24:14,036 --> 00:24:18,596
Speaker 2: Yeah. We did an interview with Nora Jones while back

411
00:24:18,676 --> 00:24:22,076
Speaker 2: now and she was talking about how she did her

412
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Speaker 2: song Wintertime with You, and she was talking about this

413
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Speaker 2: this very process that she had some scraps, a little

414
00:24:30,556 --> 00:24:33,916
Speaker 2: bits and pieces, and you had bits and pieces and

415
00:24:34,196 --> 00:24:36,836
Speaker 2: you kind of put it together to create a really

416
00:24:36,876 --> 00:24:40,196
Speaker 2: beautiful song. Can you can you? Because of walk us

417
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Speaker 2: through that little case study of this time with a

418
00:24:44,196 --> 00:24:47,356
Speaker 2: twist with another person involved, but doing it, seems like

419
00:24:47,436 --> 00:24:50,276
Speaker 2: both of you were doing doing the work of creativity

420
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Speaker 2: in the same way. Is that true?

421
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Speaker 3: Yeah?

422
00:24:53,396 --> 00:24:56,076
Speaker 4: I think that well, first of all, Norah Jones doesn't

423
00:24:56,116 --> 00:24:58,636
Speaker 4: need me to help her write a song, for sure,

424
00:24:59,316 --> 00:25:02,676
Speaker 4: but we admire each other, so there's a there's already

425
00:25:02,716 --> 00:25:06,716
Speaker 4: a kind of a base level of camaraderie or something,

426
00:25:06,876 --> 00:25:11,996
Speaker 4: you know, but I haven't found many people that I've

427
00:25:12,036 --> 00:25:16,996
Speaker 4: worked with to have it just wildly different approaches to it.

428
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Speaker 3: Everybody seems to have.

429
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Speaker 4: Sort of the core process is sort of similar. You

430
00:25:24,756 --> 00:25:29,316
Speaker 4: basically start with something that is nothing, you know, that

431
00:25:29,476 --> 00:25:34,156
Speaker 4: feels but feels like it could be something, and then

432
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Speaker 4: you basically surrender this idea that you can't you can't

433
00:25:38,956 --> 00:25:41,076
Speaker 4: do that, you can't make something out of nothing, and

434
00:25:42,436 --> 00:25:45,836
Speaker 4: you do it. And it's really the most important part

435
00:25:46,116 --> 00:25:49,356
Speaker 4: is just letting go of the idea that it can't happen.

436
00:25:49,636 --> 00:25:52,716
Speaker 3: I think, and with someone else.

437
00:25:52,716 --> 00:25:56,916
Speaker 4: It requires a lot of waiting until you both have

438
00:25:57,556 --> 00:26:00,396
Speaker 4: you know, both people have to feel comfortable and supported

439
00:26:00,516 --> 00:26:03,396
Speaker 4: enough and trusting enough to kind of throw out ideas

440
00:26:03,916 --> 00:26:06,836
Speaker 4: until you know, a light bulb goes off in two

441
00:26:06,876 --> 00:26:09,636
Speaker 4: heads at once. It's a little bit more full proof

442
00:26:09,796 --> 00:26:13,716
Speaker 4: in a way because you have that consensus of universality

443
00:26:13,796 --> 00:26:16,156
Speaker 4: for two people as opposed to like just trying to

444
00:26:16,196 --> 00:26:19,156
Speaker 4: imagine that everybody will like something you like.

445
00:26:19,476 --> 00:26:21,876
Speaker 6: We'll be right back with more from Jeff Tweety. After

446
00:26:21,916 --> 00:26:28,836
Speaker 6: the break, We're back with more of Malcolm's conversation with

447
00:26:28,916 --> 00:26:29,596
Speaker 6: Jeff Tweety.

448
00:26:30,436 --> 00:26:34,196
Speaker 2: You've done an unusual amount of collaboration with other artists

449
00:26:34,556 --> 00:26:40,156
Speaker 2: you write for, maybe Staples. You did those beautiful Mermaid

450
00:26:40,196 --> 00:26:44,356
Speaker 2: Avenue albums with Billy Bragg that I are among my favorites.

451
00:26:44,636 --> 00:26:47,756
Speaker 2: When you're writing with another person in mind, does it

452
00:26:47,876 --> 00:26:49,676
Speaker 2: change the way you write a song?

453
00:26:50,676 --> 00:26:52,556
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it does.

454
00:26:53,596 --> 00:26:57,956
Speaker 4: I honestly think that that is the thing that I

455
00:26:58,036 --> 00:27:02,196
Speaker 4: am most comfortable doing. I think it's the thing I

456
00:27:02,316 --> 00:27:05,956
Speaker 4: truly aspire to do more than almost any other thing

457
00:27:06,476 --> 00:27:07,396
Speaker 4: that I get to do.

458
00:27:08,316 --> 00:27:10,076
Speaker 3: I always pick myself.

459
00:27:09,756 --> 00:27:12,036
Speaker 4: Being a person that would write songs for other people

460
00:27:12,076 --> 00:27:15,796
Speaker 4: to sing, and Uncle Tupelo. I wanted my songs to

461
00:27:15,876 --> 00:27:20,356
Speaker 4: be sung by Jay because he had this magnificent, like rich,

462
00:27:20,476 --> 00:27:26,876
Speaker 4: authoritative voice, and I had this squeaky, you know voice

463
00:27:26,876 --> 00:27:29,956
Speaker 4: that I didn't feel like was quite my own, even

464
00:27:30,036 --> 00:27:32,596
Speaker 4: at the time, I was struggling to find it. As

465
00:27:32,676 --> 00:27:35,996
Speaker 4: much as I felt great when I sang, I just

466
00:27:36,196 --> 00:27:39,516
Speaker 4: loved the idea of writing the song more than the

467
00:27:39,556 --> 00:27:42,756
Speaker 4: idea of singing it. And I still think that that's

468
00:27:42,916 --> 00:27:49,036
Speaker 4: where my most natural abilities lie, is in helping somebody

469
00:27:49,076 --> 00:27:52,516
Speaker 4: with another with their song, like working with Nora or

470
00:27:52,636 --> 00:27:56,876
Speaker 4: finding something for someone to sing like Mavis. I don't

471
00:27:56,916 --> 00:27:59,516
Speaker 4: look at it as like I'm putting words in her mouth.

472
00:27:59,596 --> 00:28:02,876
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm just kind of helping find something

473
00:28:03,276 --> 00:28:07,996
Speaker 4: that she feels comfortable singing that makes sense for her

474
00:28:08,036 --> 00:28:11,356
Speaker 4: to sing. Same thing with the Woody Guthrie lyrics. That

475
00:28:11,516 --> 00:28:14,356
Speaker 4: was even more along the lines of what I feel

476
00:28:14,756 --> 00:28:18,036
Speaker 4: I have the strongest sense about as being something that

477
00:28:18,116 --> 00:28:22,436
Speaker 4: comes naturally to me, because those lyrics were sacrosanct. You know,

478
00:28:22,516 --> 00:28:25,156
Speaker 4: they're like you know, you're not You're not gonna mess

479
00:28:25,196 --> 00:28:25,476
Speaker 4: with them.

480
00:28:25,516 --> 00:28:25,956
Speaker 3: They're there.

481
00:28:26,076 --> 00:28:27,996
Speaker 4: You don't even need to worry about whether or not

482
00:28:28,036 --> 00:28:31,556
Speaker 4: they're good enough. They're important for people that don't know.

483
00:28:31,596 --> 00:28:34,276
Speaker 4: There were all these lyrics that Woody Guthrie left behind

484
00:28:34,316 --> 00:28:37,636
Speaker 4: that the music was never documented or he never really

485
00:28:37,996 --> 00:28:41,116
Speaker 4: made any music for. There was all these archival lyrics

486
00:28:41,116 --> 00:28:43,676
Speaker 4: and writing that we took and made songs out of,

487
00:28:44,156 --> 00:28:46,116
Speaker 4: and with those I would just sit and read them

488
00:28:46,436 --> 00:28:49,396
Speaker 4: over and over and over again until the meter would

489
00:28:49,436 --> 00:28:51,996
Speaker 4: emerge and then next there would be a melody that

490
00:28:52,036 --> 00:28:54,196
Speaker 4: would emerge, and in a lot of cases with Woody

491
00:28:54,196 --> 00:28:56,596
Speaker 4: Guthrie lyrics, you read it and all of a sudden,

492
00:28:56,876 --> 00:29:00,476
Speaker 4: a Carter Family song emerges, because that's what he was

493
00:29:00,516 --> 00:29:05,796
Speaker 4: actually writing his lyrics to was someone else's song. I

494
00:29:05,836 --> 00:29:07,796
Speaker 4: did the same thing with a bunch of lyrics for

495
00:29:07,876 --> 00:29:11,196
Speaker 4: Bob Dylan that never came out because I was I

496
00:29:11,236 --> 00:29:13,756
Speaker 4: wasn't able to be a part of that process for

497
00:29:13,796 --> 00:29:15,996
Speaker 4: that record that they did a couple of years ago,

498
00:29:17,076 --> 00:29:19,436
Speaker 4: where they had a bunch of lyrics that Dylan had written.

499
00:29:19,956 --> 00:29:22,796
Speaker 4: It's like Elvis Costello is a part of it, and

500
00:29:22,876 --> 00:29:26,356
Speaker 4: some of the Mumfords and mumfort But anyway, t Bone

501
00:29:26,356 --> 00:29:28,276
Speaker 4: had asked me if I could do it, and I

502
00:29:28,916 --> 00:29:32,036
Speaker 4: got all these lyrics, and then my wife started treatment

503
00:29:32,076 --> 00:29:34,276
Speaker 4: for cancer, so I couldn't go to LA for the

504
00:29:34,316 --> 00:29:36,756
Speaker 4: amount of time that they wanted me to. But I

505
00:29:37,196 --> 00:29:39,276
Speaker 4: did the same thing with those lyrics. I wrote them,

506
00:29:39,316 --> 00:29:41,836
Speaker 4: I wrote and recorded a whole record in a weekend.

507
00:29:42,356 --> 00:29:46,196
Speaker 2: Like, did you find it sort of freeing to not

508
00:29:46,316 --> 00:29:47,836
Speaker 2: have to do it in your own with you with

509
00:29:47,876 --> 00:29:49,956
Speaker 2: your own voice in mind? Yeah?

510
00:29:50,036 --> 00:29:53,996
Speaker 4: I think that I just struggle with allowing myself to

511
00:29:55,116 --> 00:29:59,796
Speaker 4: comment on certain things that I don't feel like I

512
00:29:59,916 --> 00:30:04,516
Speaker 4: have the authoritative weight to weigh in on, for for

513
00:30:04,676 --> 00:30:07,156
Speaker 4: in terms of like mayvs Or something like that, or

514
00:30:07,156 --> 00:30:10,596
Speaker 4: the things that I feel like Mayvas has a voice

515
00:30:11,116 --> 00:30:17,076
Speaker 4: of righteousness of some you know, of some broader scope

516
00:30:17,276 --> 00:30:21,316
Speaker 4: in historical importance and place.

517
00:30:21,596 --> 00:30:21,796
Speaker 3: You know.

518
00:30:22,916 --> 00:30:26,956
Speaker 4: There's just a way to it that I feel very

519
00:30:26,996 --> 00:30:32,196
Speaker 4: privileged to have been able to write for. But a

520
00:30:32,196 --> 00:30:35,196
Speaker 4: lot of those things are are not going to make

521
00:30:35,476 --> 00:30:38,636
Speaker 4: as much sense coming out of my mouth. It just

522
00:30:38,676 --> 00:30:43,276
Speaker 4: doesn't feel right for a lot of you know, social reasons.

523
00:30:43,316 --> 00:30:46,956
Speaker 2: I think, what's the right word to describe your attitude

524
00:30:46,996 --> 00:30:49,916
Speaker 2: towards your own voice? Are you self conscious about it?

525
00:30:50,196 --> 00:30:50,356
Speaker 4: No?

526
00:30:50,436 --> 00:30:54,516
Speaker 2: I mean that about Tupelo and how you preferred if No.

527
00:30:54,636 --> 00:30:57,676
Speaker 4: I feel like I've gotten way better as a singer,

528
00:30:57,756 --> 00:31:00,476
Speaker 4: and I've worked really hard to get better over a

529
00:31:00,516 --> 00:31:03,596
Speaker 4: lot of time. And I actually I enjoy my voice,

530
00:31:04,276 --> 00:31:06,876
Speaker 4: my singing voice quite a bit. I actually do like

531
00:31:07,036 --> 00:31:10,356
Speaker 4: listening to myself singing now when I find things that

532
00:31:10,396 --> 00:31:12,716
Speaker 4: I want to sing a lot of cases, i feel

533
00:31:12,716 --> 00:31:14,596
Speaker 4: like I'm the only person that could sing it the

534
00:31:14,636 --> 00:31:18,396
Speaker 4: way I want to hear it. But that doesn't mean

535
00:31:18,396 --> 00:31:21,676
Speaker 4: that I'm oblivious to the fact that my voice isn't

536
00:31:21,956 --> 00:31:26,396
Speaker 4: technically great in the you know, by the normal criteria

537
00:31:26,436 --> 00:31:29,676
Speaker 4: of American idol or the voice or you know, whatever,

538
00:31:30,036 --> 00:31:31,236
Speaker 4: whatever you know.

539
00:31:31,316 --> 00:31:33,116
Speaker 3: But all my favorite singers are like that.

540
00:31:33,196 --> 00:31:37,796
Speaker 4: Almost all my favorite singers have non traditional voices that

541
00:31:38,036 --> 00:31:40,076
Speaker 4: have become communicative.

542
00:31:40,196 --> 00:31:40,396
Speaker 3: You know.

543
00:31:40,476 --> 00:31:44,636
Speaker 4: It's like it's like where they trade virtuosity or technique

544
00:31:44,716 --> 00:31:51,236
Speaker 4: or whatever for sincerity or sentiment and conviction. And I

545
00:31:51,276 --> 00:31:54,196
Speaker 4: feel like I found that in my voice over time,

546
00:31:54,276 --> 00:31:57,556
Speaker 4: and I'm very, very proud of the idea that I

547
00:31:57,916 --> 00:32:01,076
Speaker 4: still work at getting better and try and sing in tune,

548
00:32:01,356 --> 00:32:03,956
Speaker 4: you know. But I'm more I'm much more concerned with

549
00:32:04,676 --> 00:32:08,156
Speaker 4: making the words feel the way I want them to feel.

550
00:32:09,196 --> 00:32:12,716
Speaker 4: Speaking voice, on the other hand, is awful. I cannot.

551
00:32:13,276 --> 00:32:15,596
Speaker 4: I will never listen to the book that I just

552
00:32:15,716 --> 00:32:23,996
Speaker 4: read or this interview. I might listen to you do

553
00:32:24,116 --> 00:32:25,676
Speaker 4: another interview with someone else.

554
00:32:27,596 --> 00:32:30,956
Speaker 2: So on this point in the book, you talk about stealing,

555
00:32:31,876 --> 00:32:35,196
Speaker 2: but you're being a little bit mischievous because you don't

556
00:32:35,236 --> 00:32:37,876
Speaker 2: really be in stealing, but you're talking about being open

557
00:32:37,996 --> 00:32:43,476
Speaker 2: to influence essentially. So give me an example of another

558
00:32:43,676 --> 00:32:47,836
Speaker 2: artist whose work you find lots of stuff to borrow

559
00:32:47,836 --> 00:32:50,316
Speaker 2: from and be inspired by. And I'm just curious, does

560
00:32:50,356 --> 00:32:53,236
Speaker 2: it come from everywhere? Are there predictable places where you

561
00:32:53,316 --> 00:32:55,956
Speaker 2: go to find ideas well?

562
00:32:56,036 --> 00:32:59,676
Speaker 4: The thing I'm describing in the book is just based

563
00:32:59,716 --> 00:33:05,676
Speaker 4: on this belief that you can't really copyright a group

564
00:33:05,716 --> 00:33:08,596
Speaker 4: of chords. What I'm describing in the book is basically

565
00:33:08,636 --> 00:33:11,636
Speaker 4: me saying, well, I'm gonna look for a song that

566
00:33:11,716 --> 00:33:13,476
Speaker 4: I think has a bunch of cool chords in it,

567
00:33:13,516 --> 00:33:15,596
Speaker 4: and I'm gonna learn how to play it, and then

568
00:33:15,636 --> 00:33:18,396
Speaker 4: I'm gonna take it and make it into something that

569
00:33:18,676 --> 00:33:21,436
Speaker 4: no one would hear that song in it anymore. But

570
00:33:21,476 --> 00:33:24,396
Speaker 4: it's basically like just when you're a little bit stuck,

571
00:33:24,636 --> 00:33:27,916
Speaker 4: just realizing that the world is full of these, you know,

572
00:33:28,036 --> 00:33:33,036
Speaker 4: sort of naturally occurring shapes that you can appropriate. You know,

573
00:33:33,196 --> 00:33:39,436
Speaker 4: I don't look at them as being particularly ownable by anybody,

574
00:33:39,476 --> 00:33:42,876
Speaker 4: and especially if I don't you know, sing the same

575
00:33:42,956 --> 00:33:45,356
Speaker 4: type of song or put the same type of melody

576
00:33:45,396 --> 00:33:48,276
Speaker 4: over it, or even have the same rhythm or you know,

577
00:33:48,516 --> 00:33:50,756
Speaker 4: there are many many ways to describe it. But it's

578
00:33:50,796 --> 00:33:53,396
Speaker 4: such a it's such a liberating thing to do to

579
00:33:53,436 --> 00:33:55,996
Speaker 4: just go, oh, I'll just take these chords and and

580
00:33:55,996 --> 00:33:58,316
Speaker 4: and start there because I haven't been able to come

581
00:33:58,396 --> 00:34:03,316
Speaker 4: up with anything all day. That being said, there are

582
00:34:03,356 --> 00:34:07,196
Speaker 4: just tons and tons of artists, new and old, every

583
00:34:07,316 --> 00:34:11,076
Speaker 4: day of my life that I encounter, and to me,

584
00:34:11,196 --> 00:34:14,676
Speaker 4: you have to work to not encounter art that inspires you,

585
00:34:15,316 --> 00:34:18,116
Speaker 4: I think, and I think that that does overwhelm people.

586
00:34:18,116 --> 00:34:20,676
Speaker 4: I think sometimes some people do get to a certain

587
00:34:20,676 --> 00:34:24,636
Speaker 4: point where they want to hide from influence or hide

588
00:34:24,676 --> 00:34:29,196
Speaker 4: from the feeling that they're being challenged by other artists.

589
00:34:29,236 --> 00:34:31,836
Speaker 4: But I look at it like most of the time

590
00:34:31,956 --> 00:34:35,716
Speaker 4: I get that way too. I can feel overwhelmed sometimes,

591
00:34:35,876 --> 00:34:40,196
Speaker 4: but more often than not, I feel really invigorated by

592
00:34:40,236 --> 00:34:43,636
Speaker 4: the fact that if I go looking, it won't take

593
00:34:43,676 --> 00:34:47,076
Speaker 4: me long at all to find something that shows me

594
00:34:47,156 --> 00:34:49,596
Speaker 4: where the bar is that I should be aiming for.

595
00:34:50,716 --> 00:34:53,116
Speaker 6: We'll be right back with more from Jeff Tweety after

596
00:34:53,156 --> 00:34:53,596
Speaker 6: the break.

597
00:34:57,876 --> 00:35:00,756
Speaker 2: What's an example of a song you listened to recently

598
00:35:01,276 --> 00:35:05,556
Speaker 2: that triggered all kinds of reactions and inspirations in you?

599
00:35:06,436 --> 00:35:06,916
Speaker 3: You know, Kate.

600
00:35:07,156 --> 00:35:09,836
Speaker 4: I think Kate Lebon writes a lot to music that

601
00:35:09,996 --> 00:35:12,236
Speaker 4: makes me feel that way. She's just the first person

602
00:35:12,276 --> 00:35:15,556
Speaker 4: that popped into my mind. She she's an artist that

603
00:35:15,716 --> 00:35:21,116
Speaker 4: has this undeniable kate leabondness about what she does, you know,

604
00:35:21,316 --> 00:35:24,596
Speaker 4: like we're and that's that's that's hard to find, you know.

605
00:35:24,636 --> 00:35:27,916
Speaker 3: I think there's she has a very specific.

606
00:35:28,036 --> 00:35:31,556
Speaker 4: Angle that she comes at what she does, and and

607
00:35:31,636 --> 00:35:35,636
Speaker 4: nobody else knows that precise angle. I think the song

608
00:35:36,716 --> 00:35:38,636
Speaker 4: Meet the Man I wanted to Meet the Man. I

609
00:35:38,636 --> 00:35:40,156
Speaker 4: think that's the name of it. So I think it's

610
00:35:40,196 --> 00:35:42,876
Speaker 4: the last song on her most recent record. It has

611
00:35:42,956 --> 00:35:46,756
Speaker 4: all of these twists and turns that are unpredictable, and

612
00:35:47,396 --> 00:35:48,436
Speaker 4: I don't know, when you.

613
00:35:48,396 --> 00:35:51,196
Speaker 2: Listen to that song, can you turn off the part

614
00:35:51,196 --> 00:35:54,316
Speaker 2: of your brain that wants to to kind of learn

615
00:35:54,356 --> 00:35:57,036
Speaker 2: from it, use it, employ it in some way and

616
00:35:57,156 --> 00:35:59,516
Speaker 2: just enjoy it or do you Is it is that

617
00:35:59,556 --> 00:36:00,636
Speaker 2: part of the brain always on?

618
00:36:01,076 --> 00:36:03,756
Speaker 3: Well, that is how I enjoy it. I think that.

619
00:36:03,796 --> 00:36:05,716
Speaker 3: I think that is part of how I enjoy it.

620
00:36:05,796 --> 00:36:08,396
Speaker 4: I I think I enjoy it first and foremost the

621
00:36:08,396 --> 00:36:10,796
Speaker 4: way I have enjoyed music since I was a little kid,

622
00:36:10,796 --> 00:36:14,596
Speaker 4: before I played any music or wrote any music. I

623
00:36:14,596 --> 00:36:20,476
Speaker 4: am just attracted to sound and excited by records. And

624
00:36:21,436 --> 00:36:24,676
Speaker 4: I don't think that that's any different, but I don't

625
00:36:24,676 --> 00:36:27,476
Speaker 4: feel burdened by the knowledge that I have now, and

626
00:36:27,556 --> 00:36:31,116
Speaker 4: I think it just adds this insight, like, oh wow,

627
00:36:31,196 --> 00:36:34,836
Speaker 4: I can kind of tell what reaverb is going on there.

628
00:36:34,876 --> 00:36:37,716
Speaker 4: But that being said, the things that I tend to

629
00:36:37,916 --> 00:36:40,556
Speaker 4: enjoy the most are the things.

630
00:36:40,276 --> 00:36:44,196
Speaker 3: That I have zero idea how they came to be.

631
00:36:45,076 --> 00:36:47,436
Speaker 4: Those are the things I listen to, you know, like

632
00:36:47,996 --> 00:36:52,436
Speaker 4: have more repeated listenings, tend to be like some hip

633
00:36:52,436 --> 00:36:56,596
Speaker 4: hop records and things that are outside of my skill set,

634
00:36:56,796 --> 00:37:00,236
Speaker 4: and you know, and then then there are times where

635
00:37:00,276 --> 00:37:02,356
Speaker 4: I crave comfort food, where I just want to hear

636
00:37:02,836 --> 00:37:05,956
Speaker 4: a simple country song played on an acoustic guitar, and

637
00:37:05,996 --> 00:37:08,476
Speaker 4: I have a very very firm grasp on how that

638
00:37:08,516 --> 00:37:12,116
Speaker 4: comes to be, but it doesn't diminish its importance in

639
00:37:12,156 --> 00:37:12,636
Speaker 4: my life.

640
00:37:12,676 --> 00:37:16,076
Speaker 2: You know, is there an artist, a contemporary of yours

641
00:37:16,076 --> 00:37:18,036
Speaker 2: whose career you'd have loved to have?

642
00:37:18,876 --> 00:37:19,116
Speaker 5: No?

643
00:37:19,236 --> 00:37:21,636
Speaker 3: I honestly, I've thought about that a lot.

644
00:37:21,796 --> 00:37:26,316
Speaker 4: I have moments where I have a professional jealousy. I

645
00:37:26,316 --> 00:37:29,916
Speaker 4: think it'd be impossible not to have these moments, especially

646
00:37:29,956 --> 00:37:33,076
Speaker 4: if you're somewhat competitive like I am. I think it's like,

647
00:37:33,156 --> 00:37:36,076
Speaker 4: why is everybody righting about this guy now, like you know,

648
00:37:36,156 --> 00:37:40,676
Speaker 4: like that, like I'm not ashamed to admit I have,

649
00:37:40,796 --> 00:37:42,716
Speaker 4: like you know, it's it's not the end of the

650
00:37:42,756 --> 00:37:45,796
Speaker 4: world to admit you have petty feelings, you know. But

651
00:37:46,276 --> 00:37:50,316
Speaker 4: but honestly, I don't think so, because when I take

652
00:37:50,356 --> 00:37:53,836
Speaker 4: a step back, the prevailing emotion is gratitude. I mean,

653
00:37:54,316 --> 00:37:57,116
Speaker 4: it wouldn't This is nothing like I would have been

654
00:37:57,556 --> 00:38:01,196
Speaker 4: ever been able to imagine for myself, you know, thirty

655
00:38:01,276 --> 00:38:05,516
Speaker 4: years in from my first time probably playing on a

656
00:38:05,596 --> 00:38:08,436
Speaker 4: stage or you know, getting in front of people.

657
00:38:09,196 --> 00:38:15,676
Speaker 6: Right back with more from Jeff Tweety, we're back with

658
00:38:15,716 --> 00:38:18,316
Speaker 6: the rest of Malcolm's conversation with Jeff Tweety.

659
00:38:18,836 --> 00:38:21,596
Speaker 2: It would be really fun if we put together a

660
00:38:21,636 --> 00:38:24,636
Speaker 2: bunch of the stuff we've been talking about in a song,

661
00:38:24,676 --> 00:38:27,836
Speaker 2: Like is there a song that you could break down,

662
00:38:27,956 --> 00:38:31,236
Speaker 2: play and break down for us? Will you talk about

663
00:38:31,756 --> 00:38:34,836
Speaker 2: all the little pieces that brought it together, how the

664
00:38:34,916 --> 00:38:39,396
Speaker 2: song was created, the little bits of influence if you

665
00:38:39,476 --> 00:38:41,956
Speaker 2: remember them. Is there one that's that fresh in your

666
00:38:41,996 --> 00:38:45,556
Speaker 2: memory that you could do that a little mini masterclass.

667
00:38:46,596 --> 00:38:53,476
Speaker 4: Let me think I have a guitar here, so that's

668
00:38:53,516 --> 00:38:55,476
Speaker 4: the g chord I always play when I pick up

669
00:38:55,516 --> 00:38:57,476
Speaker 4: a guitar. It's an inadvertence.

670
00:38:57,636 --> 00:39:00,636
Speaker 2: You're the invariant g, the tweety G.

671
00:39:02,316 --> 00:39:03,676
Speaker 3: It's pretty same.

672
00:39:04,036 --> 00:39:14,516
Speaker 4: It's my grounding. Well, there's a song on the new

673
00:39:14,796 --> 00:39:25,596
Speaker 4: record called Opaline where I was writing at this summer

674
00:39:26,036 --> 00:39:30,116
Speaker 4: or this spring, when there was so much going on

675
00:39:30,956 --> 00:39:35,796
Speaker 4: in the world, and our relationships with our police departments

676
00:39:35,836 --> 00:39:40,436
Speaker 4: were being investigated and talked about a lot. So I'm

677
00:39:40,476 --> 00:39:43,636
Speaker 4: not a person that's ever had that feeling. I've never

678
00:39:43,716 --> 00:39:47,876
Speaker 4: really been a fan of police because I've always felt

679
00:39:47,916 --> 00:39:52,196
Speaker 4: like police had a lot more to do with their mentality,

680
00:39:52,236 --> 00:39:53,476
Speaker 4: had a lot more to do with the people that

681
00:39:53,516 --> 00:39:57,596
Speaker 4: made fun of me and school and were more jockey

682
00:39:57,716 --> 00:40:01,276
Speaker 4: and it's just a general atmosphere around police that I've

683
00:40:01,716 --> 00:40:05,196
Speaker 4: not enjoyed. But I've not had this experience that a

684
00:40:05,236 --> 00:40:08,796
Speaker 4: lot of minorities have had with police in this country.

685
00:40:09,116 --> 00:40:11,716
Speaker 4: I'm aware of that, but I was trying to put

686
00:40:11,796 --> 00:40:16,676
Speaker 4: myself into that that headspace of living with that fear.

687
00:40:17,436 --> 00:40:20,036
Speaker 3: So those were those were the lyrics.

688
00:40:19,636 --> 00:40:21,596
Speaker 4: That I was playing around with. It's like I hear

689
00:40:21,636 --> 00:40:25,476
Speaker 4: the police outside my window. I can hear them talking

690
00:40:25,516 --> 00:40:34,356
Speaker 4: on the radios and uh, oh, you poorlice outside my window.

691
00:40:38,316 --> 00:40:39,716
Speaker 4: How can hear.

692
00:40:39,996 --> 00:40:44,036
Speaker 3: Them talk in all the radios.

693
00:40:47,676 --> 00:40:58,876
Speaker 4: I keep my head, order my pillow, pray that they

694
00:40:59,516 --> 00:41:08,516
Speaker 4: go on leave me alone. So that's like just one

695
00:41:08,556 --> 00:41:12,556
Speaker 4: little chunk of this song that was a melody that

696
00:41:12,636 --> 00:41:15,036
Speaker 4: I had without any words.

697
00:41:15,356 --> 00:41:16,676
Speaker 2: Did you write that chunk first?

698
00:41:17,076 --> 00:41:21,996
Speaker 4: Yea, I did, And then I had a piece that

699
00:41:22,196 --> 00:41:29,516
Speaker 4: was like, oh, you know, I didn't really have any lyrics,

700
00:41:29,516 --> 00:41:33,836
Speaker 4: so I was I We had a golden orb weave

701
00:41:33,956 --> 00:41:39,996
Speaker 4: spider weaver spider in our garden this spring that I

702
00:41:40,076 --> 00:41:43,756
Speaker 4: named Opaline for some reason, just because it just seemed

703
00:41:43,756 --> 00:41:46,396
Speaker 4: like a cool name. I had an aunt opal and

704
00:41:46,476 --> 00:41:48,956
Speaker 4: so I just started singing.

705
00:41:48,596 --> 00:42:01,356
Speaker 5: To her, Oh, oh, made believe that she still love me?

706
00:42:02,956 --> 00:42:10,996
Speaker 4: Oh believe. It's how to see reality.

707
00:42:12,756 --> 00:42:14,716
Speaker 3: I need got no love it all.

708
00:42:17,596 --> 00:42:22,556
Speaker 4: So that's just writing a country song that's just trying

709
00:42:22,556 --> 00:42:26,436
Speaker 4: to figure out a way to get to the line.

710
00:42:27,436 --> 00:42:29,436
Speaker 4: Reality is hard to see when you've got no love

711
00:42:29,476 --> 00:42:32,956
Speaker 4: at all. Because one of the things that has been

712
00:42:33,356 --> 00:42:34,356
Speaker 4: on my mind.

713
00:42:34,116 --> 00:42:37,636
Speaker 3: A lot these last few years.

714
00:42:37,316 --> 00:42:40,236
Speaker 4: Or you know, for a while now, is how do

715
00:42:40,316 --> 00:42:44,196
Speaker 4: you get to the point where reality doesn't matter? And

716
00:42:44,236 --> 00:42:47,956
Speaker 4: it obviously is very negotiable for a lot of people

717
00:42:48,196 --> 00:42:52,716
Speaker 4: in our information climate that we can shop for, a

718
00:42:52,796 --> 00:42:56,356
Speaker 4: reality that we trust and believe, and there isn't a

719
00:42:56,516 --> 00:43:01,036
Speaker 4: shared consensus a lot of times, which is really maddening

720
00:43:01,156 --> 00:43:05,236
Speaker 4: and strange to witness. We don't even have the same

721
00:43:05,276 --> 00:43:10,996
Speaker 4: agreed upon fictions anymore, you know, Like it's it's really troubling.

722
00:43:11,036 --> 00:43:13,796
Speaker 4: And my theory is that must be a lot easier

723
00:43:13,836 --> 00:43:18,876
Speaker 4: to do when people have been isolated from a lot

724
00:43:18,916 --> 00:43:24,556
Speaker 4: of their feelings of being cared for or having affection

725
00:43:25,116 --> 00:43:26,876
Speaker 4: and warmth in their life.

726
00:43:28,476 --> 00:43:30,996
Speaker 2: So you have in this song, you have that opening

727
00:43:31,556 --> 00:43:36,556
Speaker 2: image of the kid in bed head under the pillow

728
00:43:36,996 --> 00:43:40,396
Speaker 2: and hearing the cops outside and worrying, and then you

729
00:43:40,476 --> 00:43:46,356
Speaker 2: have opening yeah, and then you also have other interesting

730
00:43:46,596 --> 00:43:49,876
Speaker 2: element is it's very plainly a country song. But we're

731
00:43:49,876 --> 00:43:51,716
Speaker 2: not in country territory.

732
00:43:52,036 --> 00:43:53,036
Speaker 3: Are we.

733
00:43:53,036 --> 00:43:57,636
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, country territory is pretty pretty vast in

734
00:43:57,716 --> 00:44:02,916
Speaker 4: my opinions. To me, where country music fails is when

735
00:44:02,916 --> 00:44:06,716
Speaker 4: it tries to adhere to the tropes of country music

736
00:44:07,396 --> 00:44:11,036
Speaker 4: and becomes like civil war re enactment or something. It's

737
00:44:11,076 --> 00:44:14,596
Speaker 4: you know, it's not it's not about what's happening. And

738
00:44:15,756 --> 00:44:18,076
Speaker 4: this is this is a weird song for me to pick,

739
00:44:18,076 --> 00:44:20,476
Speaker 4: but I'm gonna stick with it now because we're in it.

740
00:44:20,516 --> 00:44:22,836
Speaker 4: But you know, this is this is like a This

741
00:44:22,916 --> 00:44:25,636
Speaker 4: is a little bit of a pistiche to where I

742
00:44:25,836 --> 00:44:28,076
Speaker 4: got all of these elements to make sense to me

743
00:44:28,476 --> 00:44:30,876
Speaker 4: and feel good to me. There's a story that runs

744
00:44:30,876 --> 00:44:35,676
Speaker 4: through it that feels apprehendible to me, you know. So

745
00:44:36,436 --> 00:44:38,596
Speaker 4: I had that, and that's probably what I put in

746
00:44:38,676 --> 00:44:42,396
Speaker 4: my phone first, aside from the initial chord progression that

747
00:44:42,436 --> 00:44:45,836
Speaker 4: I might have hummed over. That was like the first

748
00:44:46,476 --> 00:44:51,396
Speaker 4: document of this song. And then I was out driving

749
00:44:51,916 --> 00:44:55,556
Speaker 4: my car on a toll road right after that, and

750
00:44:56,476 --> 00:45:01,476
Speaker 4: there was a hearse on a toll road outside Chicago,

751
00:45:02,156 --> 00:45:06,356
Speaker 4: and this literally literally happened, and I went through a

752
00:45:06,396 --> 00:45:09,956
Speaker 4: toll next to a hearse And as I went through

753
00:45:09,956 --> 00:45:11,956
Speaker 4: the toll, I looked back and the hearse was stuck

754
00:45:11,956 --> 00:45:15,516
Speaker 4: at the toll like it didn't have any money or whatever.

755
00:45:15,596 --> 00:45:17,436
Speaker 4: But as I kept driving, I kept looking in the

756
00:45:17,436 --> 00:45:19,716
Speaker 4: rear view mirror and it was it just kept not

757
00:45:19,956 --> 00:45:23,476
Speaker 4: being let through the toll, and I just felt like

758
00:45:23,516 --> 00:45:25,436
Speaker 4: I'd been hit over the head with one of the

759
00:45:27,156 --> 00:45:30,556
Speaker 4: most striking metaphors I'd ever encountered in the real world,

760
00:45:32,996 --> 00:45:35,516
Speaker 4: you know, Like what is you know what is purgatory?

761
00:45:35,636 --> 00:45:38,036
Speaker 4: I don't know, Like I was just just one of

762
00:45:38,076 --> 00:45:39,756
Speaker 4: the craziest things.

763
00:45:40,356 --> 00:45:40,716
Speaker 3: And so.

764
00:45:43,236 --> 00:45:47,356
Speaker 4: I actually wrote this in the car into my phone

765
00:45:47,676 --> 00:45:53,316
Speaker 4: of just voice memo into my phone. There's nothing worse

766
00:45:53,956 --> 00:46:03,076
Speaker 4: then a hearse drive and slow out on the toll way.

767
00:46:03,796 --> 00:46:12,516
Speaker 4: Stop being at the tolls, No change, no easy pass,

768
00:46:13,076 --> 00:46:22,036
Speaker 4: what a way to go? There's nothing words then a

769
00:46:22,156 --> 00:46:24,116
Speaker 4: heart's driving slow?

770
00:46:28,476 --> 00:46:33,716
Speaker 5: Oh you know.

771
00:46:33,796 --> 00:46:35,716
Speaker 3: Then you get back into the forest.

772
00:46:35,596 --> 00:46:38,796
Speaker 2: Do why wait, don't question, But you had the heart

773
00:46:39,036 --> 00:46:42,076
Speaker 2: experience and you have these two little bits that you've

774
00:46:42,076 --> 00:46:45,036
Speaker 2: already done. Why do you think the hearst experience belongs

775
00:46:45,036 --> 00:46:47,236
Speaker 2: to this song or not any number of other things

776
00:46:47,676 --> 00:46:50,756
Speaker 2: that you have stashed away for future reference. How do

777
00:46:50,796 --> 00:46:51,876
Speaker 2: you know it belongs here?

778
00:46:52,996 --> 00:46:54,476
Speaker 3: It's just what was in my mind.

779
00:46:55,036 --> 00:46:59,236
Speaker 4: So I don't really think of things as accidents that

780
00:46:59,316 --> 00:47:03,716
Speaker 4: I need to really investigate. And it just it sang

781
00:47:04,516 --> 00:47:08,236
Speaker 4: well to these this melody before I could even make

782
00:47:08,276 --> 00:47:12,116
Speaker 4: a decision and about where it should go, you know.

783
00:47:12,116 --> 00:47:12,516
Speaker 3: What I mean.

784
00:47:13,076 --> 00:47:15,156
Speaker 4: It's like that song was already in my mind. I'd

785
00:47:15,156 --> 00:47:19,276
Speaker 4: been working on it. So those are the those are

786
00:47:19,276 --> 00:47:21,956
Speaker 4: the patterns that you walk around with when you have

787
00:47:22,036 --> 00:47:24,276
Speaker 4: a song in your head. And that's one of the

788
00:47:24,276 --> 00:47:27,316
Speaker 4: reasons I enjoy having a song on my head because

789
00:47:27,356 --> 00:47:32,676
Speaker 4: then everything that happens to me is d you know,

790
00:47:32,756 --> 00:47:35,916
Speaker 4: like everything fits in that melody. It makes it makes

791
00:47:35,956 --> 00:47:38,356
Speaker 4: some order out of the world. I suppose you know.

792
00:47:38,516 --> 00:47:42,676
Speaker 2: So those lyrics that you just sang for me, is

793
00:47:42,716 --> 00:47:44,796
Speaker 2: that exactly as you composed them in the car? Or

794
00:47:44,796 --> 00:47:45,996
Speaker 2: would you fiddle with them later?

795
00:47:46,356 --> 00:47:49,196
Speaker 3: No, that's exactly as I composed them in the car.

796
00:47:49,476 --> 00:47:51,956
Speaker 2: And did you compose them in the car like like

797
00:47:52,156 --> 00:47:54,596
Speaker 2: off the cuff or did you were you playing within

798
00:47:54,676 --> 00:47:56,236
Speaker 2: your mind before you recording.

799
00:47:56,356 --> 00:47:57,836
Speaker 3: I played with it in my mind.

800
00:47:57,596 --> 00:48:00,396
Speaker 4: A little bit before I decided that I should document

801
00:48:00,436 --> 00:48:02,396
Speaker 4: it before I get home.

802
00:48:02,716 --> 00:48:05,676
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And again I'm sorry. Now I'm total

803
00:48:05,836 --> 00:48:07,996
Speaker 2: I can't get over theat this so much fun. Do

804
00:48:08,076 --> 00:48:11,396
Speaker 2: you pull over or do you keep driving and you're

805
00:48:11,436 --> 00:48:12,356
Speaker 2: singing into your phone?

806
00:48:13,116 --> 00:48:15,476
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, not to get too technical, but I

807
00:48:16,156 --> 00:48:18,316
Speaker 4: pressed a button on my phone that allowed me to

808
00:48:18,396 --> 00:48:21,556
Speaker 4: record it without having to take my eyes off the road.

809
00:48:22,396 --> 00:48:24,716
Speaker 2: No, I didn't mean I was suggesting you were an

810
00:48:24,756 --> 00:48:28,156
Speaker 2: unsafe driver, but I was suggesting, like, does it I

811
00:48:28,236 --> 00:48:30,996
Speaker 2: was imagined there was a scenario where you're so caught

812
00:48:31,076 --> 00:48:33,596
Speaker 2: up in this that you're like, I gotta focus and

813
00:48:33,636 --> 00:48:35,996
Speaker 2: you're like pull into the you know, the I Hop

814
00:48:36,116 --> 00:48:39,636
Speaker 2: parking lot, and but no, no, you're just you're just

815
00:48:39,716 --> 00:48:42,596
Speaker 2: driving merrily down the road, singing us into your phone.

816
00:48:43,076 --> 00:48:43,556
Speaker 3: Yeah.

817
00:48:43,796 --> 00:48:46,476
Speaker 2: I love also that you know, ninety nine percent of

818
00:48:46,556 --> 00:48:50,476
Speaker 2: humanity seize the hers. I doesn't see the hers or

819
00:48:50,476 --> 00:48:55,556
Speaker 2: sees the hears and doesn't immediately understand the the perfection

820
00:48:55,676 --> 00:49:00,796
Speaker 2: of that metaphor. Well, I feel like you're attuned you

821
00:49:00,796 --> 00:49:02,436
Speaker 2: you are attuned to these things.

822
00:49:02,836 --> 00:49:04,516
Speaker 3: Thank you. I think we all should be.

823
00:49:04,596 --> 00:49:06,796
Speaker 4: I mean, we're like we're walking around and that there's

824
00:49:06,916 --> 00:49:10,436
Speaker 4: no there's no failed experiment. And if you're paying attention

825
00:49:10,796 --> 00:49:14,596
Speaker 4: to the world, I think we get tired. I think

826
00:49:14,636 --> 00:49:16,956
Speaker 4: we get overwhelmed, like I was saying before, with like

827
00:49:17,276 --> 00:49:20,716
Speaker 4: inspiration or influence and things like that. And you know,

828
00:49:20,996 --> 00:49:23,836
Speaker 4: we're not always receptive and we're not always we don't

829
00:49:23,876 --> 00:49:24,356
Speaker 4: always have.

830
00:49:24,356 --> 00:49:25,516
Speaker 3: The energy or.

831
00:49:27,036 --> 00:49:29,516
Speaker 4: A lot of us have a lot of concerns all

832
00:49:29,556 --> 00:49:31,756
Speaker 4: the time about a lot of other things that would

833
00:49:31,996 --> 00:49:36,036
Speaker 4: require more mental energy than we have, and that tends

834
00:49:36,036 --> 00:49:39,036
Speaker 4: to crowd out a lot of you know, paying attention

835
00:49:39,156 --> 00:49:42,476
Speaker 4: to the strangeness of the world or the you know.

836
00:49:42,716 --> 00:49:46,036
Speaker 4: I don't feel like I'm doing anything super unique in

837
00:49:46,036 --> 00:49:48,796
Speaker 4: that regard. I just think that I am aware that

838
00:49:48,876 --> 00:49:52,196
Speaker 4: my brain wants to make sense of stuff, and I

839
00:49:52,316 --> 00:49:55,236
Speaker 4: give it an opportunity to make sense of stuff, you know,

840
00:49:56,276 --> 00:49:58,956
Speaker 4: or actively participate in the fact that it does that.

841
00:49:59,196 --> 00:50:00,836
Speaker 3: I think all of our brains do that.

842
00:50:01,276 --> 00:50:04,276
Speaker 4: All of our brains would much prefer to find some

843
00:50:04,556 --> 00:50:07,596
Speaker 4: reason for something to be the way it is, then

844
00:50:07,836 --> 00:50:13,196
Speaker 4: for to try and accept and understand ambiguity and randomness

845
00:50:13,276 --> 00:50:14,956
Speaker 4: and and things like that.

846
00:50:15,196 --> 00:50:17,036
Speaker 3: So we're we're.

847
00:50:16,836 --> 00:50:20,476
Speaker 4: Designed to do that, and then sometimes it hits you

848
00:50:20,516 --> 00:50:24,716
Speaker 4: over the head because it is just too perfect and beautiful,

849
00:50:24,756 --> 00:50:28,916
Speaker 4: like a hearse being stuck at a toll booth plassa.

850
00:50:29,796 --> 00:50:31,716
Speaker 2: Well, you're not done, We're not done. Keep going.

851
00:50:31,996 --> 00:50:35,996
Speaker 4: Well the thing, you know, So there's another verse and

852
00:50:36,116 --> 00:50:38,236
Speaker 4: verse verse of chorus versus a chorus.

853
00:50:39,196 --> 00:50:39,676
Speaker 3: And then.

854
00:50:41,916 --> 00:50:45,116
Speaker 4: By that time I think I had already recorded it,

855
00:50:45,676 --> 00:50:52,836
Speaker 4: and I had recorded the song without any lyrics. I

856
00:50:52,836 --> 00:50:55,876
Speaker 4: didn't sing it, I just was just and then I

857
00:50:55,996 --> 00:51:02,156
Speaker 4: envisioned this like long outro guitar solo. So I needed

858
00:51:02,196 --> 00:51:06,956
Speaker 4: another verse and I needed something that was going to

859
00:51:07,036 --> 00:51:11,276
Speaker 4: set up a long guitar solo into a chorus, And

860
00:51:11,756 --> 00:51:14,796
Speaker 4: that was actually the hardest part, because I wanted something

861
00:51:14,796 --> 00:51:19,316
Speaker 4: that sort of tied those two pieces together a little bit,

862
00:51:19,436 --> 00:51:22,396
Speaker 4: at least ambiently somehow.

863
00:51:23,076 --> 00:51:24,676
Speaker 3: So I came up.

864
00:51:25,276 --> 00:51:26,796
Speaker 4: I came up with a bunch of things that I

865
00:51:26,836 --> 00:51:31,196
Speaker 4: actually changed over time, and I can't remember all the

866
00:51:31,196 --> 00:51:33,076
Speaker 4: different changes because I only know.

867
00:51:33,156 --> 00:51:36,276
Speaker 3: I only remember what I ended up on. But it was.

868
00:51:38,396 --> 00:51:46,156
Speaker 4: Uh, I'd like to find out while she had to

869
00:51:46,196 --> 00:51:59,836
Speaker 4: go my heart once what a heart can't control. So

870
00:51:59,996 --> 00:52:05,036
Speaker 4: I hang in the air as the light gets cold,

871
00:52:08,916 --> 00:52:18,836
Speaker 4: and I heard in his shadows welcome home. And then

872
00:52:18,916 --> 00:52:21,996
Speaker 4: it goes into the solo there. But to me it

873
00:52:22,116 --> 00:52:25,836
Speaker 4: was kind of like I had become the guy that

874
00:52:25,956 --> 00:52:29,276
Speaker 4: was hiding from the cops that got killed, They got

875
00:52:29,316 --> 00:52:33,356
Speaker 4: murdered by cops, that ended up on the highway in

876
00:52:33,436 --> 00:52:37,236
Speaker 4: a hearse, not having the change even the money to

877
00:52:37,316 --> 00:52:41,796
Speaker 4: go through a toll, you know, comically dark even in

878
00:52:43,796 --> 00:52:50,636
Speaker 4: my demise, still completely just devoid of any luck whatsoever,

879
00:52:52,196 --> 00:52:54,196
Speaker 4: you know, which is a country trope in a way,

880
00:52:54,316 --> 00:52:58,916
Speaker 4: you know, just like the beautiful Loser, but still but

881
00:52:59,076 --> 00:53:02,756
Speaker 4: still singing. This is a theme on the record actually

882
00:53:02,916 --> 00:53:07,116
Speaker 4: is still singing from beyond the grave to this woman

883
00:53:07,236 --> 00:53:11,516
Speaker 4: who basically took a took everything away in his opinion

884
00:53:11,636 --> 00:53:16,356
Speaker 4: or his feeling, but knowing basically saying, I'm I'm still

885
00:53:16,396 --> 00:53:18,476
Speaker 4: going to be in that air that you breathe.

886
00:53:18,516 --> 00:53:19,436
Speaker 3: I'm still going to be.

887
00:53:19,916 --> 00:53:23,156
Speaker 4: I can't have what I want, but I can still

888
00:53:23,196 --> 00:53:26,676
Speaker 4: imagine that you are going to think about me from

889
00:53:26,716 --> 00:53:31,316
Speaker 4: time to time. And it's a it's a sad, pathetic

890
00:53:31,396 --> 00:53:33,996
Speaker 4: notion that a lot of a lot of weak men

891
00:53:34,236 --> 00:53:36,236
Speaker 4: have and I've had in my life.

892
00:53:36,356 --> 00:53:38,996
Speaker 3: And and is that you'll miss me.

893
00:53:38,956 --> 00:53:46,316
Speaker 4: When I'm gone, And and uh, I think it's more

894
00:53:46,356 --> 00:53:48,076
Speaker 4: often than not wishful thinking.

895
00:53:49,596 --> 00:53:51,836
Speaker 2: Yeah, you to finish the song for us.

896
00:53:52,356 --> 00:53:56,076
Speaker 3: Oh well, it's just one more chorus.

897
00:53:55,916 --> 00:54:04,956
Speaker 5: It's so beautiful, thank you, Oh believe.

898
00:54:06,236 --> 00:54:18,676
Speaker 4: May believe that she's de love me. Oh it's hard,

899
00:54:19,156 --> 00:54:21,116
Speaker 4: ser really.

900
00:54:22,196 --> 00:54:24,236
Speaker 3: When you got no love it all?

901
00:54:28,156 --> 00:54:33,156
Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you, well, thank you, Jeff. I

902
00:54:33,196 --> 00:54:36,076
Speaker 2: think that's a lovely way to wrap things up.

903
00:54:36,476 --> 00:54:38,316
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

904
00:54:41,116 --> 00:54:43,756
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that catalog episode of Broken Record.

905
00:54:43,956 --> 00:54:46,196
Speaker 1: Here's some of our favorite Jeff Tweety songs. Hit the

906
00:54:46,236 --> 00:54:49,196
Speaker 1: link to the playlist in the episode description and be

907
00:54:49,196 --> 00:54:51,396
Speaker 1: sure to check out our video episodes at YouTube dot

908
00:54:51,436 --> 00:54:54,556
Speaker 1: com slash broken Record Podcast, and be sure to follow

909
00:54:54,636 --> 00:54:57,756
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You can

910
00:54:57,796 --> 00:55:01,116
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is

911
00:55:01,116 --> 00:55:04,196
Speaker 1: produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from

912
00:55:04,276 --> 00:55:07,796
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Taliday.

913
00:55:08,476 --> 00:55:12,036
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you

914
00:55:12,076 --> 00:55:15,356
Speaker 1: love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to

915
00:55:15,476 --> 00:55:19,476
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers

916
00:55:19,476 --> 00:55:22,556
Speaker 1: callous content and ad free listening for four ninety nine

917
00:55:22,636 --> 00:55:27,356
Speaker 1: a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions,

918
00:55:27,396 --> 00:55:29,996
Speaker 1: and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,

919
00:55:30,036 --> 00:55:32,876
Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's

920
00:55:32,876 --> 00:55:33,756
Speaker 1: back any beats.

921
00:55:33,876 --> 00:55:34,916
Speaker 3: I'm justin Richmond.