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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome back to work in Progress.

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Speaker 1: Today's guest is an absolutely phenomenal actor, multi time Emmy

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Speaker 1: and Golden Globe nominee. You might recognize her best from

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Speaker 1: her iconic role as Tammy Taylor and Friday Night Lights,

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Speaker 1: either that or her performance as Nicki Favor on Spin City,

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Speaker 1: or her roles on twenty four The West Wing, Dirty

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Speaker 1: John Promising a Woman Bombshaw, or most recently, as Nicole

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Speaker 1: Moss Boker on HBO's hit show The White Lotus. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Ladies and Gentlemen, Today's guest is Connie Britton. Connie is

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Speaker 1: an award winning actress who's known for fighting not just

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Speaker 1: for the integrity of the women she plays on screen,

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Speaker 1: but also for the rights and empowerment of women around

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Speaker 1: the world. She has an outspoken advocate for a variety

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Speaker 1: of causes and has written more than her fair share

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Speaker 1: of intelligently worded essays to advance them. I am so

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Speaker 1: excited to ask her about her career, her fan base,

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Speaker 1: the ideology that sustains her, and the power of speaking out,

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Speaker 1: and to maybe tell a personal story or two without

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Speaker 1: further ado. My friend and icon Connie Britain This is

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Speaker 1: actually going to be really fun because one of the

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Speaker 1: things I really like to do with people. You know,

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Speaker 1: anyone I sit down across from, be it in person

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Speaker 1: or digitally, is known for something, is doing something cool

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Speaker 1: in the world. You know, in this present moment has

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Speaker 1: something going on, like a book is coming out or

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Speaker 1: a show whatever, And and I always like to go

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Speaker 1: back to figure out how people got to be cool

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Speaker 1: and creative and inspiring. And I'm like, I know why

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Speaker 1: you're the way you are, but I have to tell

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Speaker 1: people who don't know why you're here the way you are,

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Speaker 1: which feels really fun. I'm going to ask you some questions.

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Speaker 1: I know the answers too, but that the audience doesn't.

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Speaker 1: And I'm curious to see what I learned that I

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Speaker 1: don't even know that I don't know. Will it be

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Speaker 1: like that first time that we met at the White

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Speaker 1: House Correspondence dinner. Is that what it's going to be like? Well,

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Speaker 1: that night ended with a lot of champagne and a

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Speaker 1: lot of laughter outside. We mean, I just love being

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Speaker 1: one of the kids who always winds up in the

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Speaker 1: corner at a party, because like people who wind up

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Speaker 1: in the corner or the corner of the patio. You're like,

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Speaker 1: you're my people, and we did that, and so yes,

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Speaker 1: we're in our own little corner right now. But it's

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Speaker 1: very early in the morning, so we have definitely not

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Speaker 1: had a cocktail or four. No, we're on our coffee.

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Speaker 1: That's the only difference for our coffees with our ladies

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Speaker 1: on them. I love our ladies. Um for the folks

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Speaker 1: at home, the coffees with the ladies that we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Connie and I have the same mug. It has a

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Speaker 1: bunch of iconic political ladies, Democratic leaders for justice on it,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's pretty and Stacy and Elizabeth and Nancy

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Speaker 1: and Nancy and next to Stacy, right, I love them.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, coffee with the ladies, and and you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have coll ladies as everyone. I'm so proud of all

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Speaker 1: these ladies. But keep so proud of all these ladies,

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Speaker 1: trudge uphill. It's been my god, and it is such

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Speaker 1: an interesting thing. I do find that there's parallels I

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Speaker 1: think for so many of us, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: world as ladies. Most of the country agrees on infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: wants the plan, wants you know, rights for people, and

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Speaker 1: yet they're fighting with these like very small it's a

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Speaker 1: very small group of absurdly powerful people who don't want progress.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I have felt that way in many,

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Speaker 1: many times in my life. I know I had this

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Speaker 1: like really weird realization recently the other day. It was

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Speaker 1: very like dumbfounding when I was like, oh, of our

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Speaker 1: country is white supremacist, and I'm like, that's really like

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Speaker 1: a heavy thing to realize. And it's interesting when you

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Speaker 1: unpack that, because of course that's such a loaded term,

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Speaker 1: but what it simply means is what you just said,

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Speaker 1: which is resistant to progress, because of course we live

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Speaker 1: in a country that has been built around white power

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Speaker 1: and patriarchy, and so that is the system that people

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Speaker 1: who are trying to uphold, who are so resistant to

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Speaker 1: the point of really subverting their own values, you know.

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Speaker 1: And so that was a really like heavy thing to

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Speaker 1: realize because also I know a lot of people like that,

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Speaker 1: and they would certainly not think of themselves that way.

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Speaker 1: It's a really hard struggle, you know. That's one of

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Speaker 1: the things I find really fascinating is when you get

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Speaker 1: out of what is a very it's an agitational phrase, right,

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Speaker 1: it's authentic, it's honest, why supremacy is simply a fact

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Speaker 1: um that there are phrases that have become very agitational,

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Speaker 1: and that agitation can spur us toward progress or or

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Speaker 1: really towards self inquiry. And you know, that was the

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Speaker 1: point of Black Lives Matter becoming an action call. That

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Speaker 1: was the point. It's the point of so many things

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Speaker 1: we're discussing. The patriarchy is becoming agitational as well. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting once you give people permission

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Speaker 1: to calm down from what you just said and then

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Speaker 1: to really ask, oh, what systems do I uphold that

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Speaker 1: actually uphold a disparate white supremacist patriarchy? What what what

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Speaker 1: do I lean into? Because it's quote the way it

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Speaker 1: is that continues this and and I think it's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: There's there's kind of an idea in the world that

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Speaker 1: we have a lot of these conversations because you know,

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Speaker 1: we're coastal liberals in Hollywood, and I forgot we are coastal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, oh yeah, And and so many people don't

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Speaker 1: take into account where you're from, where you've lived, the

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Speaker 1: people that you know, and you and I have some

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Speaker 1: very similar portions of our career. Where we've lived in

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Speaker 1: the South. We've lived in very red states and counties.

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Speaker 1: We we have loved those places and want better for

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Speaker 1: those people as much as we want better for the

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Speaker 1: people who you know, quote unquote think like us. And

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Speaker 1: I I wonder if, as you're reckoning with this now,

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Speaker 1: if you look back to growing up, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know you were born in Massachusetts, but then you moved

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Speaker 1: to Virginia and you were little m do you feel influenced?

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like you understand how to advocate perhaps

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Speaker 1: differently because of where and how you grew up? You know,

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Speaker 1: I think maybe so, And because my family was Republicans primarily,

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Speaker 1: but also like really goodhearted, like value driven people, and

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Speaker 1: as were most of the people that I grew up with,

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Speaker 1: And so I think and I that was that's an

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Speaker 1: interesting term, would you say? Agitational? Very interesting term? And

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Speaker 1: you're right, like, I'm not sure. Maybe there's a better

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Speaker 1: there's a better term for it, or maybe we don't

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Speaker 1: want to like have to just sort of like name that.

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Speaker 1: But on my hardest days, that is how I see it.

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Speaker 1: When you're trying to come to terms with the divide

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Speaker 1: in our country that seems so insurmountable in moments but

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Speaker 1: I really have, I think, a very good understanding of

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Speaker 1: people who have all different belief systems and who are

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Speaker 1: good people. And I even think that I might understand

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Speaker 1: a little bit about what drives them to hold on

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Speaker 1: so tightly two the thing that they know that has

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Speaker 1: been passed down to them that they feel so desperately

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Speaker 1: that they need to maintain. I think the simplest way

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Speaker 1: to say it is that I think I really have

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Speaker 1: empathy for people who think in all different ways. And

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Speaker 1: it's because of where I grew up and how my

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Speaker 1: and who my my family thinks, and the places that

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Speaker 1: I've loved that are traditionally you know. I love Austin,

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Speaker 1: I love Texas so much. I love Tennessee so much,

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Speaker 1: you know, And those are places that there are people

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Speaker 1: there with a lot of conservative values. And so I've

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Speaker 1: been fortunate to be able to sit down and listen

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Speaker 1: and hear what those people are saying and understand that

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Speaker 1: those are full hearted, real people who are just very

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Speaker 1: human in their attachment to what they know. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's very fundamentally human and I get it. I

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Speaker 1: understand that that's a pause the framing of understanding that

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Speaker 1: it is fundamentally human to be attached to what you know.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. That's a big deal because it it gives

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Speaker 1: you just enough space to say, oh, you're you're really

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Speaker 1: attached to something. Okay. We can be attached to things

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Speaker 1: that harm us, we can be attached to things that

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Speaker 1: we do even know our toxic. We can be attached

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Speaker 1: to things that are really beautiful and complicated. And I

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Speaker 1: think if we can approach each other, as you said,

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Speaker 1: with that kind of empathy, it gives you space to

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Speaker 1: see someone and, by the way, maybe help them unpack something,

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Speaker 1: because we've all had to unpack things. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think back to when I started working in our industry

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Speaker 1: the early two thousands and how cool it was then

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Speaker 1: if the guys said, oh, you're cool, You're not like

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Speaker 1: the other girls, and you'd go, yeah, man, I'm cool chick.

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Speaker 1: And now I go, oh, my god, the level of

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Speaker 1: internalized misogyny to take that as a compliment, My god, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: I've had to unpack that. I didn't even see the

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Speaker 1: insult in it. I was so I was just so

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Speaker 1: in it. We didn't have the language and the tools

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Speaker 1: and the knowledge and the books and the things and

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Speaker 1: the communication that we have now and and yeah, I

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Speaker 1: can think back to being twenty and really thinking that

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Speaker 1: was a compliment and that's the thing I needed to unpack.

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Speaker 1: But I was attached to being different and cool and

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Speaker 1: low maintenance, and like, what the fund does that even mean?

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Speaker 1: I know. And also it's like you were doing that.

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Speaker 1: You were projecting on yourself this very male centric perspective,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I didn't even know it, and you were,

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Speaker 1: you were taking that on And that's what I That's

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Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, Like, we are handed down so much,

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Speaker 1: and it is very hard to differentiate what you have

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Speaker 1: been handed down, what you have been given, what has

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Speaker 1: been just structured for you and imparted into you, versus

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Speaker 1: who you really are. It's almost indiscernible, you know, that

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Speaker 1: nature nurture thing, I think. And so that's really a

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Speaker 1: lot of the work here. And that's no small feat.

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Speaker 1: You know, when we're looking at what's happening in the

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Speaker 1: country and trying to like find find connecting points. That's

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Speaker 1: a pretty strong connecting point, is that our human nature

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Speaker 1: is very saddled with centuries of tradition and story and trauma,

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Speaker 1: and so to try to even discern what of that

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Speaker 1: is yours and what of that is useful versus what

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Speaker 1: of that needs to go? Is the hardest work we

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Speaker 1: can ever do in our lives. And let's be honest,

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Speaker 1: most most people aren't going to want to try to

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Speaker 1: do that or even have the tools to do that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how are you supposed to do the biggest job that

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Speaker 1: exists at this inflection point in human history? While we

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Speaker 1: also have jobs and are trying to pay for our

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Speaker 1: health care and fix like, there's so much going on exactly,

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Speaker 1: so many people are are working so hard just to survive.

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Speaker 1: But the thing that you said about, you know what

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Speaker 1: gets handed down. I think about this kind of jumbled

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Speaker 1: mess of what can be really beautiful what we are,

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Speaker 1: as you said, attached to you know, those those semblances

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Speaker 1: of belonging in our memories and our traditions. And I

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Speaker 1: am actually really curious how those things look to you now,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you look at little Connie because the move,

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Speaker 1: you know, from New England to the South, do you

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Speaker 1: feel like a New England or do you feel like

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Speaker 1: a Southerner? Do you feel like a jumble of all

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Speaker 1: the things? I feel like a Southerner. Isn't that funny.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like a Southerner. I think

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Speaker 1: because is we moved to Virginia when I was seven.

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Speaker 1: I was born in Massachusetts because um my parents were

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Speaker 1: both at school there, and my mom actually was northern,

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Speaker 1: she was from Connecticut. My dad mostly grew up in Florida, UM,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of his family was from Tennessee, so

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Speaker 1: he had Southern roots. But when we moved to Virginia,

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Speaker 1: I loved it. I that's where I and that's where

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Speaker 1: I grew into the beginnings of who I am, and

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Speaker 1: I felt very at home there, and I went to

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Speaker 1: school in the north. I went, you know, up north

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Speaker 1: to New Hampshire for college, and then I couldn't wait

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Speaker 1: to get to New York City. So really my time

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Speaker 1: in the South was not necessarily the longest time of

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Speaker 1: my life, but I think it was some of the

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Speaker 1: most influential time for me. Is that where you started

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Speaker 1: to find your love of performing? Uh yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I was really lucky because I went

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Speaker 1: to a great public school in my town and they

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Speaker 1: had an amazing theater program. Mr Ackley was our theater teacher,

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Speaker 1: and he created this incredible theater program at E c.

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Speaker 1: Glass High School, Lynchburg, Virginia, and that changed everything for me.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I was going to a different, like a

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Speaker 1: smaller girls school in town, and I went and saw

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Speaker 1: a production of West Side Story at the high school,

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Speaker 1: and my life was forever changed. I was like, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I have to do that I wanted And

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Speaker 1: that was the thing that immediately made me want to

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Speaker 1: go to that school and be in a play like that,

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Speaker 1: And so I just started doing that. You know. I

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Speaker 1: was able to take theater classes and be in this

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Speaker 1: amazing theater program, and that was really life changing. That

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Speaker 1: created a dream for me that I didn't think would

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Speaker 1: be reality. It created a dream for me like when

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Speaker 1: I would talk to my best friend Martha on the

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Speaker 1: phone and we talked about our dreams of what we

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Speaker 1: wanted to do. She's like, I want to be a

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Speaker 1: ski bum, like and I was like, I want to

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Speaker 1: be an actress. And they both seemed to have about

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Speaker 1: the same level of reality. Martha did not become a

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Speaker 1: ski bum, although she is now an avid skier, but

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Speaker 1: neither of those things seemed very realistic. It just was

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Speaker 1: like what you dream about as a girl in school,

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Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, that's where it started. The same

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Speaker 1: I had an arts requirement at school, and I it's

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Speaker 1: it's funny because I was at an all girls school

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Speaker 1: and our theater director, Mr Wright Tim Right, he was

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Speaker 1: so amazing. And this is in high school. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: was in high school, and I think he was sort

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Speaker 1: of like, Oh, this kid thinks theater is silly. It

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Speaker 1: was actually eighth grade. I had to do my first

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Speaker 1: play and I I was really like, I'm going premed.

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Speaker 1: I had a whole plan. I think when you're like that,

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Speaker 1: you come from an immigrant household, it's like you can

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Speaker 1: be a doctor or a or a lawyer or a doctor.

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Speaker 1: Like that's it. Uh. It was like this light bulb

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Speaker 1: moment for me. I was like, oh my god, a

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Speaker 1: play is a book but alive. Oh it was just

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Speaker 1: this thing. I thought, Oh my god, it felt visceral.

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Speaker 1: It didn't feel like an after school special. It felt

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Speaker 1: like a visceral part of the human experience. Such a

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Speaker 1: sensitive kid obviously still am um and yeah, it just

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Speaker 1: it felt it felt like something opened, like a door opened.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's cool to hear about that part for

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Speaker 1: you because we've talked so much about work and you

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Speaker 1: know about college and about you studying in China, but

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Speaker 1: like to hear where it really started. That's a that's

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Speaker 1: a new thing for me to hear from you. And

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Speaker 1: I do think yeah, and I do think like having

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Speaker 1: theater music when you're growing up in those formative years,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're growing up in a small town or

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Speaker 1: you know, a place where maybe you feel different, it's

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Speaker 1: a really it's an amazing outlet for discovery, you know,

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Speaker 1: in those years where you really are figuring out who

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Speaker 1: you are, and it's like, oh, well, I can be

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Speaker 1: this person, I can be this person, I can tell

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Speaker 1: this story. It's a great way to discover what your

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Speaker 1: voices or what somebody's voices. And and yeah, I just

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Speaker 1: think we're so fortunate. That's why I've always I feel

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Speaker 1: so bad when I see schools getting rid of arts programs,

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Speaker 1: and it's just like, gosh, that's like cutting off a

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Speaker 1: limb in a way for these kids, especially kids who

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Speaker 1: are lower income or living in places where they just

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Speaker 1: don't have a lot of opportunity for discovery. It's just like,

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Speaker 1: it's that we need that. Everybody needs that. Kids need

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Speaker 1: it absolutely, just because I think I got so much

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Speaker 1: from it. You know absolutely. I remember there was an

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Speaker 1: article I read a couple of years ago that has

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Speaker 1: always stuck with me, and the I don't remember if

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Speaker 1: it's the headline or the sort of subheadline said the

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Speaker 1: school was in trouble. The principle fired all of the

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Speaker 1: on campus cops and hired music, drama, and arts teachers,

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Speaker 1: and all of the crime and the violence and everything

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Speaker 1: happening at the school went away, and all of the

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Speaker 1: kids test scores went up. And they're just kids, just

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Speaker 1: needed an outlet and they needed to learn to communicate,

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Speaker 1: and the arts give you a language for your emotions. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I just thought that was so cool. That's amazing

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Speaker 1: that that says it, that says it in a nutshell. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are two things about your school that I'm so

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Speaker 1: curious about, because there's another thing I think we have

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Speaker 1: in common. Everyone is him's. We would have studied theater,

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Speaker 1: especially as high school theater kids, and I studied journalism,

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Speaker 1: and you've got a degree in Asian Studies with a

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Speaker 1: concentration in Chinese, and you studied in China. And the

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Speaker 1: bicycle biking through the rain story, I will never forget

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Speaker 1: what prompted that, what prompted young college age Connie to

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Speaker 1: be like, I'm off to China, see you guys. Well,

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Speaker 1: I went to Dartmouth and I got there, and I

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Speaker 1: still had my crazy, crazy dream of being an actor,

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Speaker 1: and I did a play my freshman fall at Dartmouth.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't have a great experience. It was very different.

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Speaker 1: It was they took themselves much more seriously, I thought,

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Speaker 1: than my high school experience. And it was so it

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Speaker 1: was a little bit like, all right, you know what,

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Speaker 1: like that was for my younger days. Now it's time

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Speaker 1: to grow up and be mature and figure out what

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do with my life and get serious. And

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Speaker 1: at the same time, my freshman year also I had

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Speaker 1: to fulfill a language requirement because in fact, I was

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Speaker 1: actually pretty terrible at language, and so I was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I have to fulfill language requirement. What's the coolest language

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Speaker 1: I could think of? And that was Chinese. I thought, Chinese, whoa,

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Speaker 1: that is so exotic, that is so another world. So

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Speaker 1: that's why I started studying it. And then the other

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Speaker 1: thing that was amazing about Dartmouth was they really encouraged

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Speaker 1: you to do foreign study. So I was doing all

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Speaker 1: this Chinese and boy, it took a couple a lot

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Speaker 1: of time because it was really hard. And then but

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Speaker 1: then I had the opportunity to go study in Beijing

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Speaker 1: during the summer term. So I did a full fall, winter, spring,

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Speaker 1: and then I could go to Beijing in the summer.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm definitely going to do that,

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Speaker 1: are you kidding? So then I went to Beijing and

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Speaker 1: had that experience, which was really truly a life changing

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Speaker 1: experience for me at that time, and then I was

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Speaker 1: kind of off to the races with my Asian studies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when you talk about it being a life changing experience,

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Speaker 1: when you're beaming, you're I see you feeling excited. Why

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00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: do you think so now when you when you look

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00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 1: back at that, what gives you that warm, fuzzy feeling.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I love discovery and I always have.

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Speaker 1: And when I got to China, you know, with whatever

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Speaker 1: my bag was, we were going to be there for

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Speaker 1: three months. I got off the plane in Beijing, China,

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00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: and the air was thick with like cold dust, and

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Speaker 1: even the place the environment felt different, the smell was different.

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Speaker 1: And this was in the eighties, this was still very

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Speaker 1: much communist China. People were predominantly wearing mouth suits, which

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Speaker 1: is what the Communists used to wear. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: China of today is not I would I would most

358
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Speaker 1: certainly not recognize it. This was mouse suits Communist China,

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00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: signs and parks that say no dogs or Chinese allowed

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00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: only bicycles, almost no cars at all. Everyone got around

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Speaker 1: on bicycles, like hundreds and hundreds of bicycles in the streets.

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Speaker 1: That's how people got around. And we were in a

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Speaker 1: dormitory at Beijing Normal University and I got there and

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00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: it was these kind of cinder block rooms and I

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00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 1: rimmed with Kirsten jilibrand casual roommates senator casual at the

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00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: casual roommates senator at that at that time, she was

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Speaker 1: Tina Rutnick, And you know, it was the two of

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Speaker 1: us in this room, and we slept on these sort

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Speaker 1: of like straw mats that matt beds, and then there

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Speaker 1: was kind of a very like rustic suit desk and

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Speaker 1: chair in the room and that was basically it. And

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Speaker 1: then the bathroom was a shared bathroom along the whole

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Speaker 1: like up the whole floor of this dorm and it

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00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: was like holes in the floor. That's what the bathroom was.

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Speaker 1: So this was a rude awakening. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: these dorm rooms, we we had two people to a dorm.

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Speaker 1: The Chinese people they had six people to a dorm.

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Speaker 1: So they were literally like it was three bunk beds

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Speaker 1: on each side, and then just a narrow space in

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00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 1: between the bunk beds where they would have like trunks,

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00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: so there was no space to actually move or anything.

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Speaker 1: So this was actually luxurious for us. But when I

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00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: first got there, I was like, Oh my gosh, what

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00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: have I done? Why did nobody warn me about this?

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00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: This is I should have been warned. I had no idea,

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Speaker 1: like I really it was really one of those things

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00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: where I I really didn't know what to make of it.

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00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: It It was scary and unknown and difficult, and everything

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00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: just felt scary really, you know. And that's the thing,

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Speaker 1: kind of going back to what we were talking about initially,

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00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: like it's scary to go away from what you know.

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Speaker 1: That's why it's so genuinely difficult. That's why I have

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00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 1: so much empathy for it. It's scary to be in

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00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: that situation. And I would say the first month that

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Speaker 1: I was in China, I actively disliked it. I was homesick.

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Speaker 1: It was really hard. It was such a huge culture shock.

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Speaker 1: Our first dinner they gave us, there was like a

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Speaker 1: fish in the middle of the table with like the

399
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: eye I'd never seen that before, like, you know, staring

400
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: up at you. That was sort of the nice welcome dinner.

401
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,719
Speaker 1: And then after that, like the food was not the

402
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: Chinese food that we know that most of us know

403
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: in our hometowns or whatever. And it was scary because

404
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: it was so different and hard. And then I was

405
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: able to like trudge through it long enough and I

406
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: was able to get to the other side of that,

407
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: and then I loved it. And then I was like,

408
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: this is so fascinating, this culture on the other side

409
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: of the world that feels so different. Then I just

410
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: like took such great joy and trying to understand this

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00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: group of people whose lives and background and history was

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00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: so deeply different from ours, the way they live, in

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00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 1: their values and all that. And then I loved it,

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00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: you know, and I felt such a strong affinity for it.

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00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 1: It was definitely a formative time for me. So when

416
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: I look back on it, I feel like in those moments,

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00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: we really grow, and I feel like I grew as

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00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 1: a human being, and I love having the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: do that. And I and I always said, even later

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00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: in college, when I found my way back to the

421
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: theater and decided maybe I would even try to give

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00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: it a shot, maybe go to drama school after college,

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00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: I always said I had no regrets about my focus

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00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: on Asian studies and Chinese because I know it will

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00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: make me a better actor to understand how much diversity

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00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: there is in the world, and to understand different cultures

427
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: in the way different people are, and to let that

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00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: be a part of who I am, you know. And

429
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: it also for me started my real desire to look

430
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: outward and to know the world better and to consider

431
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: my own life and my own world beyond just my

432
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: neighborhood or even my my town or my state or

433
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: my country, you know. And how beautiful the ortunity to

434
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 1: have an experience where you can be frank about how

435
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: out of place you feel or or anxious you feel,

436
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure you feel because everything is unknown, and then

437
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: to kind of crest that hill and then have everything

438
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: that is unknown and unsure be what you love the most. Yeah, yeah,

439
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: I know. It's so special. It's funny that because certainly

440
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: as an actor, I think there are so many parts

441
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: about being an artist where I think risk taking is

442
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: very important and yet also difficult. It's inherent if you're

443
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: taking a risk, that you're going to be doing something

444
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: that feels scary and outside your comfort zone and difficult.

445
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: And sometimes I find even you know now, in my life,

446
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: like it's hard to assess, like, how do I make

447
00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: a choice that feels scary but know that it's the right, scary,

448
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: very choice that it's actually going to I'm going to

449
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: be able to cress that hill and get to the

450
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: other side as opposed to, Oh no, I need to like,

451
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: I need to like pay attention to these fears and

452
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: these are red flags, and maybe I don't make this choice,

453
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: you know, That's always I think for me that discernment

454
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: is sometimes the most difficult. But I always want to

455
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: ask those questions because I'm very fortunate to have throughout

456
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: my life had experiences such as my China experience to

457
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: show me that there is great reward in doing the

458
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: thing that feels really scary or different. Yeah, And I

459
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: hope that each of us who is able to share

460
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: about those things can remind other people to try to

461
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: lean into that. M h. It feels like there's so

462
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: much potential on the other side of something new, and

463
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: you know, that formative kind of experience. I think when

464
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: you really do lean into something else. It's how I

465
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: felt about journalism. Really leaning into studying stories about people

466
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: and how they're told and who gets covered and why

467
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: made me a better storyteller. And when I think about

468
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: one of the things I think is so cool about

469
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: you is, as you say, you know, you came back

470
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: to the theater, you studied under Sanford Meisner, which we

471
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: have not actually ever talked about as a theater geek.

472
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, Connie, tell me everything about it. How was it,

473
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: what was it like? It was scary? I bet well.

474
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: When Sanford when I mean when I was studying under

475
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: Samford Meisner, he was old. It was sort of the

476
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: end of his time, and you know, he'd had this

477
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: this throat surgery, so he talked like this. He he

478
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: had like a I think he had like a yeah,

479
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: but he would still be in these class and in

480
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: these classrooms. But I just remember, or you know, we'd

481
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: get up and do a scene in front of Sanford

482
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: Meisner and he'd be there and he'd sit there and

483
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: you'd finish your scene and you say, who's your teacher?

484
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: And you're like, you know, if he's asking you who

485
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: your teacher is, you're so screwed because he's going to

486
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: go yell at your teacher because you were so bad

487
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: in the scene. Because like we all because he wasn't

488
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: we all had, you know, our own teachers at the

489
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: Nabal Playhouse. But then he would he would sit in

490
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: on the classes and we would do certain certain segments

491
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: with him, so he was very intimidating. But again, like

492
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: it's that that also the thing that we're talking about,

493
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: which is how amazing to have had the opportunity to

494
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: have worked with this great teacher who developed, you know,

495
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: the whole premise of the Meisner technique is listening. That's it.

496
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: Will you tell people more about that? So you do?

497
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: You know, Samford Meisner is this amazing acting teacher and

498
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: the fundamental idea behind his teaching was these listening exercises.

499
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: And you would you spend your entire first year just

500
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: sitting in a chair across from somebody else sitting in

501
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: a chair and you would say something like I'm hungry,

502
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: and the person would say you're hungry. Yeah, I'm hungry,

503
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: You're hungry, And I mean it was It's that simple,

504
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: and it really even initially I'm sort of like, what

505
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: are we doing? What is this? What is this? But

506
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: it sort of evolves from that. But the idea is

507
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: that you are. It's not about the words. It's about

508
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: listening to the person's emotional like like where they're coming from,

509
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: the emotional inflection, and and then it would like it

510
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: would shift from I'm hungry too, well you sound like

511
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: you're blah blah blah, you know, and so it's sort

512
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: of this almost improvisational journey that is without plot, it's

513
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: without sort of you know, with there are no ideas

514
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: of who where you're supposed to be or who you're

515
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: supposed to be. It's literally just connecting with the human

516
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: in front of you. And that has been one of

517
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: the most important fundamental ideas for me in my life,

518
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: both as an actor but also as a human. Just

519
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: just listening. And I really value that because it comes

520
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: into play and everywhere. It comes into play in my relationships,

521
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: it comes into play as a mother, it comes into

522
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: play when I'm looking at the world and trying to

523
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: understand it. Better. And the other side of that is empathy,

524
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: you know, because then you can really feel that. But

525
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: working with Sandy Meisner was a scary thing. But the

526
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: other side of that was this incredible gift that I've

527
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: been able to hone in on and carry with me.

528
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: And and then I worked with a protege of his,

529
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 1: this incredible teacher named Wyn Handman. He ran this theater

530
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: called the American Place Theater, and he was probably the

531
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: great teacher of my life. But he was. It was

532
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: it was sort of a continuation of of that. He

533
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: he also had worked with Meisner and developed with him

534
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: in the old days was old kind of cool development

535
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: theater days. Yeah, that's so cool. And and so how

536
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: do you how do you make the leap, you know,

537
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: from studying to working. Your debut film was The Brothers McMullen,

538
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: which I talked about a classic. But when when you

539
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: start thinking about, you know, from that moment running through

540
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: the you know, the career on like two x speed,

541
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: how do you kind of see it all laying out? Well?

542
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: I was really fortunate. I'm so grateful that I had

543
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 1: my like four year liberal arts education and really got

544
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: to do that and then go to drama school in

545
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: New York City for two years and then found this

546
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: to other teacher that I was telling you about wyn Hammon,

547
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: and then just really started pounding the pavement in New

548
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: York and was doing acting class and doing theater and

549
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: church basements and summer Stock and you know, off off,

550
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,720
Speaker 1: off off off Broadway and starting a starting a theater company,

551
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: which basically was we got like a space in like

552
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: Avenue Z, like deep deep deep East Village at that time,

553
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: which was all still a little dicey, and we would

554
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: do play readings and you know what, just whatever, just

555
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: like immersing myself. But even I loved being in New

556
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: York City because New York is such an I've always

557
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: loved New York and New York has such an aliveness

558
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: to it, and it felt like there is such a

559
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: great arts scene and obviously Broadway, but you could be

560
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: any you could be trying to create anything. But then

561
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: it's also people doing every other possible job you can imagine,

562
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: so it didn't just feel like I mean, listen, I

563
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: love living in l A and and Hollywood and all that,

564
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: but this feels like very much like a workdown. You know,

565
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: this is like a show of his town. New York

566
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: City feels like New York City like again for me

567
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: and the way my brain works. There was just so

568
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: much diversity and so many people yearning for different things

569
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: and trying to accomplish different things, and you know, I

570
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: would just take all of that in and but you know,

571
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: I was just really struggling and but also just trying

572
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: to make make my stuff, you know, do do whatever,

573
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: and make whatever I could happen happen. And I would

574
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: answer ads every week. There's a there's something called back

575
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: Stage Magazine, which is it was at that time a newspaper,

576
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: and you know, it kind of would tell you, you know,

577
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,479
Speaker 1: give you kind of the latest in mostly theater, I think,

578
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: but you know, I don't know, I don't even remember.

579
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: To me, it seemed like it was a lot of theater.

580
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 1: But and then they would have ads for auditions, so

581
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: it would tell you there's a call for chorus for

582
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: a Broadway show, an actor's equity call, although initially I

583
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: wasn't even in actor's equity, so I had to I

584
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: could only go on non equity calls, and those would

585
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: usually involve like standing outside when it's still dark outside

586
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: at like five o'clock in the morning, standing in line

587
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: outside of actor's equity until they opened the doors with

588
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: like so many people in the freezing cold or in

589
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: the rain, and then it was like an all day thing.

590
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: And then you'd get in and you'd sign up for

591
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: an audition if you got there in time, and then

592
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: you'd have to go back or wait until they called

593
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 1: your name for this audition. And I never ever, ever, ever,

594
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 1: ever ever got a job that way, but I did

595
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: it so much. And then the other thing in backstage

596
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: was that you could answer. You could send out your

597
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: picture and resume to all these various people student films

598
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,479
Speaker 1: or whatever. So I would every week I would send

599
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: out like a stack of pictures and resumes to various people.

600
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: And one of those people was this guy who was

601
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: doing a movie, trying to like cast his movie. His

602
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: name was ed Burns, Eddie Burns. And I went in

603
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 1: and I almost didn't even go to the audition because

604
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: I was like out of town visiting my sister who

605
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: was in Washington, d C. And I kind of last minute,

606
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: like went to the audition and he cast me like

607
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,959
Speaker 1: that day, and I was like, oh, well, he really

608
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: doesn't know what he's doing and then and then I

609
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: was like, okay, I'm doing this little movie. Of course,

610
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: there was never any money discussed. There was no we

611
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: were not going to get paid. It was just you

612
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: just at that time, like I would just do anything

613
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: to get experience. And Eddie was this great guy and

614
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: he cast this great group of people and it was

615
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: a real family movie. And we would just shoot whenever

616
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: he had film stock because he was just doing it

617
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: like on his own little shoe string budget, and he

618
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: was working as a p A on Entertainment Tonight, and

619
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: so sometimes he would take like used film stock and

620
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: use that like for the movie, and we would shoot

621
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: at his house, his parents house on Long Island and anyway,

622
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,959
Speaker 1: so it took us forever to shoot this movie. And

623
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: then because he was a p I Entertainment Tonight, they

624
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: were interviewing Robert Redford one day, so Eddie was in

625
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: an elevator with Robert Redford and he was like, Mr Redford,

626
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: I am an independent filmmaker and I have this a

627
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: tape of this movie that I just made in my backpack.

628
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 1: Would you take a look at it? And he pulled

629
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: it out of his backpack. And later because I got

630
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: to know Redford over the years, he told me the

631
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: story too, and is I and I don't know what

632
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: made me want to look at this kid's movie, but

633
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: I took it, you know, and I was He's like,

634
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: I was piste off. I hate those things that you know,

635
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: he had to do this interview and whatever, but I

636
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: took this kid's movie and he watched it. You know.

637
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: This is when really this was sort of like the

638
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 1: golden era of independent film at the Sundance Film Festival.

639
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 1: And Redford really like his intentions with that are so

640
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: pure in terms of what he was really and still

641
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: is really trying to nurture in terms of like a

642
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: truly like independent film environment. And so and I think

643
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: that's why he watched the movie, you know. And so

644
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: the movie got into the Sundance Film Festival, and I

645
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: remember when I heard that, I was horrified. I was like,

646
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: I I literally cried. I was like, Robert Redford is

647
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna be I'm so terrible, I'm so humiliated.

648
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: Like I was like I couldn't believe people would actually

649
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: see it. And Robert Redford was actually gonna see it.

650
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: Was like convinced I was awful, and it won the

651
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: grand Jury Prize at the Sundance Film Festival, and that

652
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 1: was like a life changing moment. I mean that those

653
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: are you know again, that's just one of those things

654
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: that you could never predict, you could never plan. We

655
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: were the underdog of all underdogs, and when we were

656
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: at the Sundance Film Festival, we were sitting in the back, back, back,

657
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: back back, absolute last row of the auditorium. I didn't

658
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: even know there was a grand Jury prize and then

659
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 1: we want it. So that was for me, the amazing

660
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: big break moment. Yeah, yeah, what a moment. That kind

661
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 1: of changes everything when you think about things that you've

662
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: worked on since, you know, for for me as your

663
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: friend and as a person who's seen a lot of

664
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: your work. When I think about projects Friday Night Lights,

665
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: when I think about Nashville, when I think about Promising

666
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: Young Woman and be a Trisit Dinner and White Lotus,

667
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: all of these things, what stands out to me is

668
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: whether you're playing the person who has no idea how

669
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 1: privileged they are, or you're challenging a system of privilege.

670
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, Tammy Taylor challenged everything. Yeah, you know,

671
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: do you as you look at your career. Have you

672
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: chosen specifically to dig into fostering those conversations or have

673
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: you more often said, oh I really like this person

674
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: and want to develop them or is it sort of

675
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: a mixture of both. Yeah, I would. I mean, I've

676
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: I have a pretty strong commitment that really comes out

677
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:55,879
Speaker 1: of my own privilege and the opportunities that I've been

678
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: fortunate to have. But through that and really Friday Night

679
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: Lights was the first. It was really for me an

680
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:09,479
Speaker 1: exploration in women's power because it was a show about

681
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: football and again going back to kind of what we've

682
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: been talking about, and I've told the story before, but

683
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: like people really wanted and Sarah Aubrey really wanted me

684
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: to do that show. And I had done the movie

685
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: with Billy Bob Thornton and the character was almost non

686
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: existent in the movie. And that was also with pet

687
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: Burgh and he was always he felt very badly about

688
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: He was always very apologetic. But that was a hard

689
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: movie to structure and I understood that. And but so

690
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: then they were doing the TV show and they wanted

691
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: me to do the same part, and I was like no,

692
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 1: And you know, I came up at a time when

693
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: many of the roles on television for women. You know,

694
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: it's like there's one woman for every nine men in

695
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 1: a film or in television, and quite frequently the roles

696
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: for women were very supplemental, very supporting, pretty one dimensional,

697
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: and so it was just sort of a game for me.

698
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: It was kind of fun to like take these supporting

699
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: characters and try to make them as three dimensional as

700
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: possible and to like give them a life, even though

701
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: the life wasn't really on the page or really in

702
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: the storytelling. And so when Friday Night Lights, the TV show,

703
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: came along, I was kind of in a place where

704
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: I wanted to work, I needed to work, but this

705
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: felt to me like a dead end. It was like, wow,

706
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: is this all that I can ask for myself? You

707
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: know that, like I'm going to be I'm going to

708
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 1: now be the supporting woman in a show about football.

709
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: This I'm going to be the wife of a coach

710
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: in a show about like that is dominated by men,

711
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 1: And I cry, like I can. I could still cry

712
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: thinking about it today. And this is going back to

713
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: the whole conversation we were having about how it's sometimes

714
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: it's really hard to know whether you need to watch

715
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: for the red flags or whether you need to take

716
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: the risk. And I kept saying no to it, and

717
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: Peteburgh was like, listen, this is our chance to give

718
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: these women a voice. This is our chance to do

719
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: what we didn't do in the movie and to show

720
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: what who these women are in these in this community.

721
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: But you know, people say whatever they want to say

722
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: to get you to do something, you know what I mean.

723
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, my experience does not tell me that that

724
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: is what's going to happen. My experience tells me that

725
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 1: is going to be a supporting female in a world

726
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: about men. But I signed on to do it because

727
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: I kind of I got with you know, he kind

728
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: of whittled me down, and I was like, well, I

729
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: need the job, and so I signed on to do it.

730
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: And I remember crying the day that I signed to

731
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: do it, because I'm like, I can't expect any more

732
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: for myself than this, And so I think those circumstances

733
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: with in which I chose to do that gave me

734
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: this drive to make it more than that. And I

735
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: had already been sort of doing that in my career

736
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: anyway out of necessity, like Okay, let me humanize these

737
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: women as much as I can even though they're not

738
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: very strongly written, and thankfully Pete did stay true to

739
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: his word. Pete stayed true to his word. And then

740
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,720
Speaker 1: Jason Cadams came in to be our showrunner and he

741
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: remember he sat down with me once the show was

742
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: picked up, and we really and I was like, we

743
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: have to like give her a voice. We can't let

744
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: these women's quote unquote sit on the literally sit on

745
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: the sidelines. And Jason picked up that commitment, and he

746
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: was the one who thought about making Tammy those high

747
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: school counselor, which immediately put her in more of the story.

748
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: And so I was really supported. And Kyle Chandler, of course,

749
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: who played the coach, also wanted the relationship that we created.

750
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: He wanted that and so it was like the greatest

751
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: blessing to have all of those wonderful people and their

752
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: intentions were aligned with mine, and so we really together

753
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: let Tammy come to life, but let all these other

754
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: women on the show as well come to life. So

755
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: that was an important learning experience for me because I

756
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 1: realized that in doing that myself as an actress, I

757
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 1: was also able to create a character who was doing that,

758
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: who was finding her own power in a world dominated

759
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: by men, and who was able to be a full

760
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: partner in her marriage and a strong, though flawed mother,

761
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: and to navigate a pretty conventional male dominated football world,

762
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: um and to navigate that as a woman, and to

763
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: do so in a way where she was knowing her

764
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: own voice and being her true self. And so that

765
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: was an incredible experience for me. And to be able

766
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: to put that character out there into the world and

767
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: then have women come to me and say that it

768
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: had impacted them as well and helped them to know

769
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: themselves better was really one of the great lessons for

770
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 1: me about what we can do, you know, what we

771
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: what we can do as artists, and when we have

772
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: this platform of television and it's never hitting people over

773
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: the head, it's actually just letting people see themselves in

774
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: a really honest way. And so so I've really stayed

775
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 1: very committed to trying to do that with all the

776
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: characters that I play, And even a character like in

777
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:06,919
Speaker 1: Promising Young Woman who is a college dean and she

778
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: has an essence turned the other way when there has

779
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 1: been a sexual assault on campus and a young woman's

780
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: life suffered for it, but she took the side of

781
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:22,800
Speaker 1: the boy involved and she For me, even that character

782
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: was it was very That was really I did not

783
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,720
Speaker 1: know how I was going to play that character because

784
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: I couldn't wrap my brain around it. But then I'm like, Okay,

785
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: I need to figure out because there are of course

786
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: so many women that would take that same tech, and

787
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: so I want to I actually want to understand her.

788
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: I want to understand her. I don't want to judge her.

789
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 1: I want to understand her and like see what drives her.

790
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: And that was a really interesting character because she is

791
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 1: a part of a system that has been in place

792
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: for a very long time, and that is a system

793
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: that has probably that she was built to be a

794
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: part of. She she was educated to be a part

795
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: of it. Um that's where her all of her success

796
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 1: has come from is being a part of that system.

797
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: And I had empathy for her because for her to

798
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: like try to shake up that system would be shaking

799
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: up her life. So even though it meant that she

800
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: did not do right by this young woman, and in fact,

801
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: in her action is perpetuating sexual harassment on campus, she

802
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 1: didn't understand those the repercussions of that because it was

803
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: too important for her to hold true to the systems

804
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: that she is a part of. One of the things

805
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: that's really dawned on me, I guess as I've gotten

806
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: older and more capable of having a wider purview, you know,

807
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: holding more things to be true at the same time,

808
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: I think, when you're young, you can hold maybe one

809
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 1: or two, and now I feel like I can I

810
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 1: can hold a lot. One of the things I've really

811
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: realized is that when I was young, I couldn't bear

812
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: to not like my characters. I couldn't bear it. I

813
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. It was too emotional, it was too hard.

814
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: And now you know, when I hear you talking about that, Dean,

815
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: I actually think one of the greatest sort of signs

816
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: of skill at being able as a performer to compete

817
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: in the emotional gymnastics required is to actually look at

818
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: a character and say, oh, this person is part of

819
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: the problem, and I have to completely withhold my judgment

820
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: of them and find out how to sympathize with them,

821
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: because if I play this person authentically enough, people who

822
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: have behaved this way will see themselves reflected and they

823
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: won't like it, and maybe they'll be able to see

824
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 1: a path to change. Maybe they'll realize that not you know,

825
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: as this woman was unwilling to shake up her life,

826
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 1: didn't even know she could, didn't know how. Maybe a

827
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: person in a similar position who watches that movie goes, oh,

828
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 1: I I have I have to agitate this system. M H.

829
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: In this moment, I realized I have to and I

830
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: do have more power than I thought I did. And

831
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:26,800
Speaker 1: that two, to withhold the very human tendency of judging

832
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: wrongdoing so that you can play someone authentically, have to

833
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: humanize them. Yeah, that's the thing. You the job. My

834
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: my number one rule, no matter what, I never ever

835
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 1: judge my characters. In fact, I love my characters, even

836
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: if in the story, you know, if you hate them,

837
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 1: you love them. But I don't. I genuinely don't. First

838
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: of all, I don't allow myself to have judgment about them.

839
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: So it's like so I always go inside. I immediately

840
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: go inside. I'm like, Okay, what is her? What is her?

841
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: What her driving her? What is it? Then I think

842
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: it's exactly what you're doing, you're you're talking about, Because

843
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: if there's no judgment, then what I'm left to be

844
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: able to do is find the humanity, And then there's

845
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: a universality that can happen where you can watch a

846
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: character who may be behaving differently than you, but you

847
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: see their humanity and so you can relate and so

848
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: or somebody who behaves that way, can you know. I

849
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: mean I've actually been I've been doing a lot of

850
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: those characters lately, like you know Nicole on White Lotus,

851
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: and I love Nicole, like I never ever judged her,

852
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: even though everyone around her is judging her. She is

853
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: living in a world of contempt around with her family.

854
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 1: And therefore, because I never said Nicole is this kind

855
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 1: of person, I've had women like, who aren't that kind

856
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: of person? Say, oh my gosh, I so related to

857
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: her when she's like breaking down about the fact that

858
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: her entire family just picks on her all the time.

859
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: And that's the goal. Then we can have better understanding

860
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: of each other if we can create these characters that

861
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: we're not judging, but we are just finding the humanity

862
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: even if their behavior is barbaric, you know. Or when

863
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 1: I did Dirty John, I remember our mutual friend Jed

864
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 1: was the one who told me about that podcast. Were

865
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: you there and we were talking? Yeah, you you guys

866
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: right right right, So you guys told me about that

867
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: podcast freaking out, Yes, and you were freaking out. And

868
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: then like the next day, my agent reaches out and

869
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:45,959
Speaker 1: it's like, have you heard of this podcast? Dirty John?

870
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: And I was like what? And then you guys, and

871
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: you guys were so kind of like, oh my gosh,

872
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 1: this character, you know, she's I mean, there there was

873
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: judgment around the character, and a lot of people I

874
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: think had judgment around Deborah uh who I got to

875
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: know very well when I was playing that part, and

876
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't judge her. She's a human

877
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,399
Speaker 1: being and like and actually her so much of her

878
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: behavior is quintessential female behavior, quintessential human behavior. But beyond

879
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 1: that because also the other thing that is really interesting

880
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: to me is I really am having a great time

881
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 1: as an actress exploring what makes us tick as women.

882
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 1: You know, I am very fascinated by that and the

883
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,760
Speaker 1: things that we are handed down that impact our behavior.

884
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,720
Speaker 1: And Deborah was a great opportunity to do that because

885
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:47,320
Speaker 1: she's this incredibly like, lovely, beautiful, successful, self made woman

886
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: and mother, and she had a series of events in

887
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 1: her life and like the culture that she grew up

888
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: in and the religion that you grew up in, and

889
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: the family that you grew up in, all of these

890
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 1: things influenced her perspective on what she felt she deserved

891
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 1: and how important a man was in her life. I

892
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: was fascinated to discover that. And so in playing that part,

893
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: even though there was so you know, people would listen

894
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 1: to that podcast and to be like, she's so stupid.

895
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: Why didn't she see that this guy was just bad

896
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: for her, so much judgment, so much judgment that she

897
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: had to and she had to deal with. Meanwhile, the

898
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: number of women, women that I've known for years and

899
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 1: never knew came out of who came out of the woodwork,

900
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: and we're like I had a very similar experience where

901
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:40,240
Speaker 1: they became involved with a sociopath and it was a

902
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: truly scary experience. I mean, thankfully it wasn't as crazy

903
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 1: as Dirty John. But again, it's just putting all of

904
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: the pieces and all of the building blocks together to

905
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: find and have empathy for the behavior as opposed to

906
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 1: just judging the behavior, you know, and it just makes

907
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: all the different And said, I've I've just been having

908
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: such a great time like exploring that and particularly now

909
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: in the world going back to our initial conversation about

910
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,359
Speaker 1: how we are divided, but like really trying to understand

911
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: the you know, I don't judge the women and the

912
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 1: people who think differently from me. I just really would

913
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 1: like to understand them better. And if there was a

914
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: way to help people know that, as scary as it

915
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 1: is to change, if you get past the crest of

916
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 1: that hill, there's so much more reward on the other side.

917
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: That would be great accomplishment, you know, And it's interesting

918
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 1: to One of the things I've realized I have to

919
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: be particular about is the clarity, you know, when out

920
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: there working on political issues, the difference in in clarity

921
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: of saying no, I'm mad at the system. I'm mad

922
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: at the political players in power who are manipulating their voters.

923
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,959
Speaker 1: I'm not really mad at other voters. I get frustrated.

924
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: I get frustrated when I feel like people are voting

925
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: against either themselves or their neighbors. But I see, I

926
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: actually see us all, regardless of what end of the

927
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: spectrum we fall on, as having a common enemy in

928
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: corporate conglomerates who lie for profit and produce propaganda for

929
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 1: profit and willingly risk the lives of their own viewers.

930
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: Customers and constituents. Yeah, that's who I'm actually mad at.

931
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: And what I've realized is the more I can repeat that,

932
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: because you can't assume that everyone sees everything you say

933
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 1: every day obviously everyone stows out there trying to survive.

934
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: The more I can be clear about that, the more

935
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: people who assume I wouldn't want to hear from them

936
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: realize that I do, and I have really interesting conversations

937
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: and we listen to each other, to go back to

938
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: that part of the beginning, right right exactly, I know,

939
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 1: I mean, because that's the thing is we realize it's

940
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 1: so easy to lump people into groups. And I think

941
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: that that's become the way our our culture is functioning

942
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: right now. And when you can really break it down

943
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: to like want just up the person. Each person is

944
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: acting from what they know and that is a commonality

945
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: across the board amongst all of us. So that's like universal,

946
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 1: so we all share that. So if you can start

947
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 1: from there and see the person as opposed to like

948
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: see them in this you know, lumped into this group

949
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: of just group of behavior, is I think it's a

950
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 1: more productive way to look at the world around us.

951
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 1: And I think I've learned that from acting frankly, and

952
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: it feels important to you know, to say or or

953
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: maybe to be clear that it takes a long time

954
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: to get here, to a point where you're not just

955
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 1: angry or judgmental, and to say, hold on, that isn't working.

956
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: How do I look deeper? How do I see commonality

957
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 1: even with people who I I don't think I could.

958
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 1: How do I make room for them and then maybe

959
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 1: make room for myself? Is that kind of duality, that

960
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: capacity to hold multiple things to be true at the

961
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 1: same time. Is that how you had to approach someone

962
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 1: like Nicole boss Barker. Because it's so cool to see

963
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 1: the White Lotus be this cultural sensation in real time.

964
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: I feel like we still rarely have that now because

965
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: TV is all about binging, so people people watch when

966
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: they can, and everyone this summer watched White Lotus at

967
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: the same time, and it was so fun. I know,

968
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: that was so cool. So I feel like I haven't

969
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: been part of something like that and so long, and

970
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 1: I feel like that's kind of what I came up

971
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 1: in and then everything changed, so it was it was fun.

972
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 1: It was really fun, and it was and it was

973
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: cool to have it be a sensation because it was

974
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: just people talking about their feelings and experiences for the

975
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: most part, and yet it was it's also such a

976
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:40,479
Speaker 1: meditation on where we are struggling with, learning to hold

977
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: more awareness, learning to be more culturally sensitive, learning to

978
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: acknowledge diversity, learning to deal with bias and privilege. It's

979
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 1: it's such a good Mike White did such a good job.

980
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I know, what was this whole experience

981
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: for you? Well, for me, it was just because of Mike.

982
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 1: I just think he's a genius writer and a genius

983
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: writer and a genius observer of human behavior. And to me,

984
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 1: the most exciting thing is when you can observe human

985
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: behavior and then translate that into storytelling where everyone in

986
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 1: the story is familiar. It's a familiar like not only

987
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,440
Speaker 1: human being, it's not it's not not only just a

988
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: familiar character and a familiar person, but it's also a

989
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: familiar like element in society. Do you know what I'm saying?

990
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 1: And but I just think it's so very difficult. I mean,

991
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: it's really social satire, and it's so very difficult to

992
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: write truly great social satire that will just pull in

993
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: an audience, as you said, like you know, where everyone's

994
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: watching at the same time. And I think that people

995
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 1: were so dy onto it because it was this crazy

996
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 1: heightened world where everything felt like something that you recognize

997
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: in some way, and so we were able to see

998
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 1: ourselves but not see ourselves and strangely, um, you know,

999
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 1: because like those characters are pretty like most people would

1000
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 1: not want to say, oh, I'm just like you know Nicole,

1001
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 1: or just like you know any of them really, and

1002
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: yet there's just something very relatable about all of them.

1003
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 1: And I think that that's just a very special thing

1004
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 1: to be able to accomplish as a writer and as

1005
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: a director. So so I you know, we shot that

1006
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 1: in the height of COVID. Of course we got to

1007
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 1: shoot at shooted at the Four Seasons in Maui, so

1008
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: that was pretty spectacular, but also strange because you know,

1009
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: we were in this really really tight bubble there at

1010
01:03:56,280 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 1: the Four Seasons and COVID, as we all know, is

1011
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: a scary moment in time, and so this was kind

1012
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: of the first foray into what's it going to look

1013
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 1: like to work in that situation, and everybody was double

1014
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 1: masked and we were so careful about we couldn't go anywhere,

1015
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 1: you know, we couldn't leave the bubble, and that was

1016
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 1: really intense. But I never had a question that it

1017
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,439
Speaker 1: was something that I wanted to do because I think

1018
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: that what Mike White is capable of doing is very

1019
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 1: rare and very special. And so it's fun. You know,

1020
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 1: it's fun. It was fun to do it. It was

1021
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: I loved every single person in that cast so much,

1022
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: and then it was really and then it's it's fun

1023
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: to see that people respond to it and like it.

1024
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's so cool and it's interesting to me too.

1025
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 1: The musing on flipping a gender norm, you know, Nicole

1026
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 1: being the breadwinner and still dealing with her particular issues.

1027
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 1: You know, you said being up that her family picks

1028
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 1: on her. What is the resentment? How does that work?

1029
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 1: You know? It it's really interesting because in a way

1030
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: it's a reminder that you know, quote, solving the problem

1031
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 1: doesn't solve all the problems. Yeah, And and then there's

1032
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: some elements where you're rooting for her, in some elements

1033
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 1: where you're like, God, this woman, I know, and again

1034
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 1: with Nicole, like she's just doing the best she can

1035
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 1: and I'm fascinated. You know what for me, one of

1036
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 1: the things that was so fun about that character is

1037
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: I kind of grew up with my parents, even though

1038
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: my mom was a stay at home mom and my

1039
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: dad was the breadwinner, and but I kind of grew

1040
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 1: up with them saying you can do whatever you want,

1041
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 1: like sort of this idea that you can have it all.

1042
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: And I think that that is a real struggle for

1043
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: women in the culture. And so I thought Nicole was

1044
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: a great great x lauration in perceived success, like as women,

1045
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 1: you know, trying to like create our own business and

1046
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 1: breaking through the glass ceiling and all of that, and

1047
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 1: having a family and being a mother and being successful

1048
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 1: and all of those things that are these markers of

1049
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:27,440
Speaker 1: success supposedly. But then what I loved about playing that

1050
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 1: character is that she really is representative of just how

1051
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: challenging it is to really have it all, you know,

1052
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 1: because on paper it seems like she would and you know,

1053
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 1: they've got all this money, and but her kids don't

1054
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 1: respect her, her husband doesn't respect her, her husband cheats

1055
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 1: on her. She feels constantly like behind in terms of

1056
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 1: her work stuff. You know, even in that scene where

1057
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: she the reporter like talks to her about the journalist

1058
01:06:57,600 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 1: talks to her about like, you know, they have that

1059
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 1: argument about how even the journalists kind of demeaned her

1060
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 1: and the way she wrote about her. And I think

1061
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: that's why a lot of women ended up relating to that,

1062
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 1: because it's really hard to do everything and we don't

1063
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 1: have models for it, as you know, in the culture

1064
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: where this is where we're all breaking new ground. And

1065
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 1: and by the way, not only do we not have

1066
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 1: models for it, men don't have models for it, so

1067
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 1: men don't even really know how to deal with us.

1068
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: So you know, so we get called bitches, so you

1069
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, we are creating new models,

1070
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 1: and I feel like Nicole was a good example of that.

1071
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 1: Even though she she and we make so many mistakes.

1072
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: We're all making so many mistakes, and we're still products

1073
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 1: of the systems and the structures that are in place,

1074
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,439
Speaker 1: even as we're trying to like break new ground, which

1075
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 1: is true for all of us on some on some level. Yeah,

1076
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 1: And something that struck me watching the show was, Yeah,

1077
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: she's flawed and there's plenty to take issue with, and

1078
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: yet it feels like for her, which is really representative

1079
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 1: of so many women, all of her mistakes are really

1080
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: held on her neck and men. Everyone goes like, what

1081
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:17,440
Speaker 1: would you expect? Right? And I go, wait, wait a minute, how,

1082
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: how how then is this person supposed to grow? How?

1083
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 1: I don't know it? Really, It definitely sent me into

1084
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:28,479
Speaker 1: a tailspin thinking because I to your point about judgment

1085
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:33,600
Speaker 1: with with the characters we play. I immediately identified what

1086
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 1: I judged in that type of woman in the in

1087
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 1: the archetype of woman you're representing. And then I thought, Okay,

1088
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 1: hold on, I have to unpack that. What's on the

1089
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 1: other side of that response. Why do I have this response?

1090
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 1: Where where might I need to have this response that

1091
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: maybe I don't that I've been cultured not to. You know,

1092
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: I think probably one of the things I love most

1093
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 1: about you as a friend is your ability to hold

1094
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: a lot of things very tenderly. You just do and

1095
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 1: with no you have like, no expectation, no ego about it.

1096
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: You have you have an immense calm confidence and yeah,

1097
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:17,640
Speaker 1: I love you. And I think about it as it

1098
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 1: applies to this conversation. The empathy that you meet tension

1099
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 1: with the lack of judgment for characters that everyone's wanting

1100
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 1: judging when they watch, and yet in this world where

1101
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 1: there is a lot of bickering and arguing. You are

1102
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: also unafraid to take a stand. You've always been unafraid

1103
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: to speak out on issues, whether it's explaining that yes,

1104
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 1: poverty is sexist, what's happening in gender dynamics, what's going

1105
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:50,680
Speaker 1: on in our industry and in other industries. How do

1106
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: you find your ability to be courageously moral and to

1107
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 1: be a defend or of others while also holding empathy

1108
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 1: for the people who might be the people you have

1109
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:08,559
Speaker 1: to defend others against. How do you feel like you

1110
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:12,599
Speaker 1: hold onto that well? I love, I actually have really

1111
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 1: loved what you've been saying today about being able to

1112
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 1: allow multiple things to be true at one time. And

1113
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:22,479
Speaker 1: I think the only way to do that is non judgment,

1114
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:27,719
Speaker 1: you know, because judgment is the thing that creates black

1115
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:30,839
Speaker 1: and white. It's the thing that creates like either or

1116
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 1: this or that this is good, this is bad. That's judgment.

1117
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 1: So I think to answer your question, first of all,

1118
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 1: thank you for saying all those sweet things, so I love.

1119
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 1: That's means so much to me, you know, I mean,

1120
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: I know I've I've probably told you this before, but

1121
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 1: and sometimes it sounds so sort of idealistic, a naive.

1122
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 1: But when I went to college, you know, after mine

1123
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: went to China and stuff, I just was learning. So

1124
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 1: I learned so much that I never knew before. And

1125
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:02,799
Speaker 1: I learned about the world, and I was learning about

1126
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 1: genocide and extreme poverty and so many of the things

1127
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: that have happened in the world and were and are

1128
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 1: still happening. And I remember like despairing and calling my

1129
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 1: dad on the phone from college and being like, what

1130
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 1: are we supposed to do? I mean, when I think

1131
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 1: back on this moment, it's fascinating to remember being that

1132
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 1: naive and having my eyes open to the injustice of

1133
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 1: the world for the for seemingly the first time, and

1134
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 1: feeling so hopeless and helpless, and calling my dad because

1135
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:42,679
Speaker 1: my dad was the smartest person I knew, and being like, oh, well,

1136
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 1: what are we supposed to do about this? And then

1137
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,240
Speaker 1: cut to I was a p A on a production

1138
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 1: of Born Yesterday, which started in Cleveland, as everything does,

1139
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: and then went to Broadway and it was starring Ed

1140
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 1: Asner and Madeleine Cohn in Born Yesterday, And we were

1141
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:01,280
Speaker 1: living in Ohio at the time, and so I would like,

1142
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 1: we were living in Akron and I would drive every

1143
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 1: day to the Cleveland Playhouse to be like a little

1144
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 1: p a on this for the summer, and I became

1145
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: friends with Ed Asner, who I was like, oh my god,

1146
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:19,240
Speaker 1: ed Asner. I watched him every spare moment that he

1147
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 1: wasn't in rehearsal or working, he was off doing something.

1148
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 1: He was off doing something charitable or something for the world.

1149
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 1: And suddenly it clicked for me and I thought, wow,

1150
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:36,599
Speaker 1: you can parlay because I still at that time was

1151
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: you know, I was back in my passion for acting

1152
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:42,240
Speaker 1: and that it just wasn't going away. And I thought,

1153
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 1: you can parlay your talent or your desire to do

1154
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:52,479
Speaker 1: something into this greater good. Because to me that felt

1155
01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:56,679
Speaker 1: like a bridge. It felt like, oh, watching him, this

1156
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:58,759
Speaker 1: is a way that I can do something in the world,

1157
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 1: because otherwise I was really overwhelmed. I was like, how

1158
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 1: do you what do you do? You know, I guess

1159
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 1: I could have joined the Peace Corps or you know,

1160
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 1: there are things like that. But somehow watching him was

1161
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 1: such a great influence for me because I thought this

1162
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 1: would be a way to parlay this thing that feels

1163
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:23,719
Speaker 1: like a very organic, inherent thing for me, which is acting.

1164
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:27,719
Speaker 1: And my love of that and be and then holding

1165
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: this bigger picture of what I would like to try

1166
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 1: to do in the world. And and so that's really

1167
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:39,439
Speaker 1: what's always driven me. And it's pretty specific because there

1168
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 1: are a lot of different kinds of actors out there,

1169
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 1: and there are people who get into it for all

1170
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 1: different reasons. And again I don't judge any of that,

1171
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:52,040
Speaker 1: but I've always held very true to that because frankly,

1172
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have a career and I

1173
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:55,519
Speaker 1: don't think I would be the actor that I am

1174
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 1: if I focused on anything else. I think it's this

1175
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:02,559
Speaker 1: vision in this dry that keeps me in the direction

1176
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 1: that is right for me, and so therefore, to me,

1177
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:12,679
Speaker 1: it feels like a real every time I can give

1178
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:17,639
Speaker 1: voice to the voiceless or speak out for things that

1179
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:22,640
Speaker 1: feel really important and things that feel like values that

1180
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 1: I believe in. Every time I have the privilege and

1181
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 1: opportunity to do that, it feels like a gift, and

1182
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:35,599
Speaker 1: it feels like the sort of mission that I've been

1183
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:40,840
Speaker 1: trying for all this time. Yeah, I feel that. It's

1184
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 1: like I think there's no cooler opportunity than when the

1185
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:47,759
Speaker 1: spotlight gets pointed at you to be able to grab

1186
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,600
Speaker 1: it and pointed at someone else. It's yeah, it's pretty special,

1187
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:54,799
Speaker 1: I know. And I think of you as doing like you.

1188
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 1: You are somebody who I feel does that in such

1189
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 1: a beautiful, profound way. Like I am constantly inspired by

1190
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: you because you you you have the ability to go

1191
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 1: out there and you know, I'm I'm just sort of

1192
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 1: like I feel like I'm kind of just do it

1193
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:14,840
Speaker 1: my way and like muse my voice and whatever. But

1194
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:16,640
Speaker 1: I feel like you really go out there and you

1195
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 1: like create a business around it, you know, like you

1196
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:25,639
Speaker 1: do it on a very big level, a very big scale. Yeah,

1197
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:28,960
Speaker 1: it's funny, uh Jed Actually, I remember he said to

1198
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 1: me once. He was like, it's so funny that everyone

1199
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 1: thinks of you as an actress because you're just an

1200
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 1: activist who uses acting to make people pay attention. And

1201
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's really sweet. I guess it

1202
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 1: kind of my full time job. But then I have

1203
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 1: to have it. I have to have like a day

1204
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 1: job to pay the bills. So it's it's sort of

1205
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 1: cool to be able to hold both well, you know,

1206
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:52,160
Speaker 1: and I think you and I are that's maybe where

1207
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 1: we are a little bit different, because I think for me.

1208
01:15:56,360 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 1: You're such a very present and vocal activist, and you

1209
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:04,800
Speaker 1: have done that in such a really like, as I said,

1210
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 1: on a very large scale. And I think one of

1211
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:12,040
Speaker 1: the things that I've discovered is I've been very interested

1212
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:15,160
Speaker 1: in like using my work to make people think and

1213
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 1: to maybe create you know, It's like if one of

1214
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:20,639
Speaker 1: the things that I'm really trying to put out into

1215
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 1: the world is people to empower themselves, and particularly women,

1216
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:27,720
Speaker 1: to empower themselves and to know themselves better, because I

1217
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:31,760
Speaker 1: think that ultimately then we can that that creates a

1218
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 1: bigger group of people who can go out and do

1219
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 1: great things in the world and make change. And so

1220
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:44,559
Speaker 1: I I do think a lot about like and the

1221
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:48,720
Speaker 1: roles that I play that I hope that there's some

1222
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:55,599
Speaker 1: translation out into the culture where women see can see

1223
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:59,640
Speaker 1: themselves differently and maybe see their own possibility, in their

1224
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 1: own capabilities in a different way. It's interesting. I think

1225
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:10,839
Speaker 1: I'm I'm really making space for that in my life.

1226
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:12,880
Speaker 1: I was speaking to a friend of mine who is

1227
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 1: an incredible activist the other day, and she was saying,

1228
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:19,280
Speaker 1: you know, she had a whole season years of her

1229
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:21,760
Speaker 1: life where she was physically on the front lines every day,

1230
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 1: and now that's not sustainable. And so while other people

1231
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:29,519
Speaker 1: are moving into those spaces, she's moving into the space

1232
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 1: of being a speaker and an educator. And and I

1233
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 1: I feel like I did a lot of years on

1234
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:40,719
Speaker 1: the front lines, and I am starting to feel really

1235
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:45,800
Speaker 1: excited as as we create these decentralized power structures and

1236
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:50,599
Speaker 1: communities of activists whereby we're really on a relay whereby

1237
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:52,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to go and I'm stepping out while other

1238
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:55,640
Speaker 1: people are stepping in so I can make some art

1239
01:17:55,720 --> 01:18:01,760
Speaker 1: as as commentary. And I I'm craving that. I'm craving

1240
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:06,040
Speaker 1: that work and that personal creativity. I've I've given a

1241
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:09,480
Speaker 1: lot and now now I'm going to give to myself

1242
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 1: for a beat. And I'm I feel it's interesting to

1243
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:16,439
Speaker 1: be at a point where I'm like, oh, yeah, I

1244
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 1: deserve that. That's gonna be nice. Yeah, it's it's certainly

1245
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:26,120
Speaker 1: a work in progress for me. Yeah. But also and

1246
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:29,600
Speaker 1: as it should be, like, you have no idea what

1247
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 1: that is, what's going to evolve out of that for

1248
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 1: you to make you a better activist and a better

1249
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 1: artist and all of those things and and probably impact

1250
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:43,880
Speaker 1: the world around you, you know, So I mean, that's

1251
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,360
Speaker 1: the thing when I think we have to follow those

1252
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:49,640
Speaker 1: moments in those voices, because those are the those are

1253
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:52,599
Speaker 1: the voices that will lead us to the place where

1254
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 1: we're taking the risk. But it's the right risk, and

1255
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 1: it's the risk that will put us outside of our

1256
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 1: comfort zone and show us the world in a more

1257
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:07,240
Speaker 1: profound way. On the other side, what feels like your

1258
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 1: work in progress right now? I mean being a mother,

1259
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:14,160
Speaker 1: Being a mother is always a work in progress. And

1260
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 1: that was the biggest learning curve for me when I

1261
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 1: became a mother was realizing, oh, I get it. I

1262
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:28,000
Speaker 1: will never know what I'm doing like I am. It

1263
01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 1: is going to always be discovery. And you know, you're

1264
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:37,719
Speaker 1: raising a human, you know, and that is a flesh

1265
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 1: and blood being with their own thoughts and ideas and

1266
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:48,879
Speaker 1: intentions and soul. So that is for sure an ongoing

1267
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:51,559
Speaker 1: work in progress and it will never not be that.

1268
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:55,400
Speaker 1: And that's that's a great gift. That's that's the great

1269
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 1: gift of it. That's where Yobi teaches me every day.

1270
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:03,120
Speaker 1: Um also my production company, this is new for me

1271
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:08,400
Speaker 1: and it's just learning on the job, you know, figuring out, oh,

1272
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 1: this is what it means to try to get a

1273
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 1: show made, and this is how this works, and this

1274
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 1: is how long it takes, and this is how you

1275
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:18,200
Speaker 1: can have something like get all the way up to

1276
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 1: here and then just like fall apart, you know. And

1277
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:25,680
Speaker 1: that's also been a steep learning curve, but but exciting.

1278
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 1: And I love that that's one of my works in

1279
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 1: progress because I feel like it's really fun at my

1280
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Speaker 1: age to be discovering a completely different side of this business,

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Speaker 1: in this art form that I have been striving towards

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Speaker 1: since I was a child, you know, and yet oh

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Speaker 1: I never I never knew until you know, I'm in

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Speaker 1: my fifties and I never knew until now, this whole

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Speaker 1: side of it. So it's really, it's cool, fascinating. I

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Speaker 1: love that it feels really the theme of all of

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Speaker 1: it is discovery. Yeah. Yeah, and gosh, if we can

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Speaker 1: just like have hold that perspective throughout our lives, that's

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Speaker 1: that's very fortunate. Yeah. Yeah, I'll give you a lady mud.

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Speaker 1: Cheers to that. Cheers to that, that lady mug