WEBVTT - Fire Drill 083: Reframing the Debate 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:00.800 Mm hmm. 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.560 My sense has always been that the yasser are going 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:09.080 to decide this, you know, not Jay Monahan, not Roy McElroy, 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:12.600 not this new fangled board of directors. It's he's got 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:16.239 the money, he's got the juice, and it is it 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:18.840 has been his creation that he's nurtured, and he's very 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:22.680 close to some of the key live players and they 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:23.920 bought into his vision. 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:27.200 I got daughts in my head. 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:32.600 Can't get him joh not the thing what I'm thinking about. 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:39.280 Can't get him out, jo Not the thing what I'm 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:40.240 thinking about. 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.519 Hello, welcome back to the fire Drill Podcast. This is 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:55.320 Alan Shipnak joined by Matt Janella. We want to talk 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:57.240 about the state of the game, the state of the 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:58.920 fire Pit, some of the things are working on, and 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.440 just kind of do a little catchup. Maddie Thing, thanks 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:02.320 for jumping on here. 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.440 Well, I got to go to the horse's mouth. I 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:08.119 want to get the I want to get. I wanted 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.520 to get the scoop and who better than you? 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:16.600 Yeah, Yeah, We'll dive into live golf and all the 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.880 latest developments. It's like every day it never ends. I'm 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.240 going to be literally they'll be printing my book I'm 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:25.360 going to be at the pretty facility, like handwriting notes 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:29.320 in the margin because things just keep happening. But before 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.759 we get going, let's let's thank our sponsors, Dormy Workshop. 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:35.880 Anything you want to say about our friends over at Dormy, Matt. 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:38.680 No, I mean, it's just that they are an incredible 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.520 golf family business based in Halifax, Nova Scotia, where all 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:47.039 they make is quality leather head covers and accessories. I 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.520 met these guys, the Bishop Brothers, at the PGA Merchandise 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.000 Show almost ten years ago, and when I used to 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:57.680 run around the morning drive looking for things to promote 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:02.400 for buddies trips or gifts or things gadgets, I couldn't 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:06.160 help but always go to the Dormy Workshop stand and 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:10.400 grab some of their stuff that they that they'd made. 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:14.320 It's just incredible. I just don't think there's anybody else 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.640 in the industry doing it quite like they do it 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:21.120 and personalize certain personalizing certain things and creating certain things 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.440 that every time they post something, you're like, that's amazing. 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:28.480 They got some sort of baseball glove headcover now that 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:32.200 looked like you can personalize, and they've done some great 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.840 stuff for us. So go to Firepit Collective dot com 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:39.000 and get some of their fire pit headcovers and stash bags. 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:41.880 Or go to Dormy Workshop dot com and use promo 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.359 code fire Pit fifteen for fifteen percent off some of 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:46.720 the stuff that they have on their website. I really 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:47.760 appreciate their support. 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:56.080 Same. So the latest twist and turns, you know, Jaymonahan, 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.880 his excellency Yasser Aldermayan, and Greg normanans some into Capitol 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:06.560 Hill to testify about what's really happened with behind the 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.240 scenes getting some of the anti trust issues that set 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.200 for July eleven. As part of that, they had to 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:18.360 turn over the five page framework Agreement, which was the 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:22.920 signed document that led to this earthquake. And they they 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.399 talked around it and and and Jimmy Dunn as well 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:28.640 had pulled out some of the language and their press appearances, 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:30.839 but no one had seen the document. And then by 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.280 turning it over to the it's good to know how 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:38.640 how how quickly the US government people are to leak documents. 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:41.960 It was like it dropped in Washington, c within minutes. 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.440 Everybody had it. But we thanked them for their service. 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:51.240 There weren't any bombshells, really, you know, I think that 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.960 that that Jay and Jimmy and others have been pretty 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.880 good at summarizing the contents of this agreement. But there 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:59.040 were definitely some nuggets. I mean, one that that jumps 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.800 out right away was the line in there that that 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.640 the PGA Tour and the dp World Tour are going to, uh, 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.000 you know, try their best to get world ranking points 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:13.560 for live golf. And it's interesting because they were fighting 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.960 hard to prevent that. But you know, obviously the landscape 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.160 has changed. It's obviously a win for live. That's one 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:23.200 of the things that's sort of legitimized. The entire thing 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:29.839 is and it's been this background battle. The larger question, 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:31.440 you know, what's gonna happen to live golf? I mean 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.800 that there's really three or four big questions. What in 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.880 this new merger. What's gonna happen to live golf? How 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:40.960 are they going to make hole the players who stayed 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.120 loyal to the PGA Tour, whether there's live or not. 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.760 How are players gonna be re into you know, how 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.960 are the live guys going to be reintegrated into the 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:53.800 larger landscape. Those are the biggies, And there wasn't a 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.800 lot of clarity in that document. But uh, it was 0:04:57.839 --> 0:04:59.480 it was certainly interesting to see. And I will say 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.320 Keith Pelly signature is off the charts, like I mean 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:04.880 if people make fun of my signature when I'm siding 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:09.080 books at SFO. But it was ornate and funny. 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.760 But you don't wear those kinds of you don't wear 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.320 those kinds of glasses and that variety of color and 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.000 have kind of a bland you know, autograph. It just 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:19.440 it's just not part of the deal. 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.160 Yeah, that's a good call. It's all it all work. 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:27.360 It's it's the totality of Keith Helly. But your sense has. 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.479 Always been that live lives though. Your sense is that 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.480 why would they scrap it? This was this was Yasir's 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.520 baby and it made it or it made or makes 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:42.480 no sense to you that they would just completely scrap it, 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.000 And especially if there's going to be some sort of 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:48.520 process and sort of the players not don't automatically get 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.599 back in right like and they've got contract, Like, I 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:54.200 don't see how how there's a situation where it just 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:55.520 goes away. 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:58.960 My sense has always been that that Yaser are going 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.520 to decide this, you know, not jay Monhan not Roy McElroy, 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.000 not this new fangled board of directors. It's he's got 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.680 the money, he's got the juice, and it is it 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.279 has been his creation that he's nurtured. And he's very 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.120 close to some of the key live players and they 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.440 bought into his vision, right. They're the ones who took 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.960 the leap of faith and that meant so much to 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.360 him personally and to the you know, this the whole 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.000 idea of the cloud. He's getting into professional golf and 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:31.880 and then those pioneers essentially brought us to this moment, 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.479 and so there is a loyalty there, and there's there's 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:39.119 a sense of ownership and but at the same time, 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:43.480 I mean, he's a ruthless businessman, and so I think 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:45.200 I think they're going to take a hard look at it. 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.800 It's clear that this is this process is going to 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.560 be ornate, and the idea that it's going to get 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.000 wrapped up here in the coming months is pretty fanciful. 0:06:56.520 --> 0:07:01.840 The framework agreement expires on December thirty first this year. However, 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.440 there is language that they can they can extend that 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:09.360 and that seems likely, even though it throws into uncertainty 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:13.040 so much. You know, there was a board meeting today 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.480 that this is Tuesday, and you know that the tours 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:19.640 in Detroit at Rocket Mortgage and there was a Player 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.080 only meeting and then the board met and put out 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.680 a statement basically saying that we're committed to working on 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:28.880 this process. But some of the language in there was interesting. 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.000 It was kind of like, if we can finalize the agreement, 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.600 not when you know there's been a lot of pushback 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:39.360 internally from the Player directors, especially Patrick Cantley is an 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:43.600 interesting person in all of this. He's been he's been. 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.920 I'm sorry, what did you say, Patrick Kantley has been 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:50.400 an interesting Person's amazing. 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.480 I know, breaking news. Yeah, the word interesting is rarely 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.960 applied to the guy, but he is. He is smart, 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:59.440 and he is strident, and someone who's dealt with him 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.800 on governance issues describing to me as a terrific penis 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:05.920 I said, I didn't quite get it. It's like he's 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.800 a big dick, like he's just hard to deal with 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:13.640 and he's all along, has just been pushing for the 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.400 interests of the Delaware twenty three, you know, just the 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.520 top guys who've been sort of setting this policy. And 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:22.600 he really doesn't care about the journeyman. He doesn't care 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.040 about the opposite field events. He's kind of gone all 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.040 in on this tour within a tour, which is fine, 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.200 but it's created a lot of hard feelings because that's 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.959 the majority of the players out there. And so now 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.320 he's pushing back on this framework agreement and a lot 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:40.040 of details and you know it, whatever gets agreed upon 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:45.040 between Yasser, Jimmy Dunn, jay Monhan or his replacement, because 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:49.200 that remains an unknown, it's still going to have to 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:53.000 be approved by the PGA Tour Board. And the players 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.800 now have five votes. Rory's one of them. I mean, 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.120 he's obviously he was thrown to the wolves here. He 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:06.880 could be persuaded maybe to go against the tide. And 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.280 then Peter Malnaughty, who was elected, you know, sort of 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.679 a journeyman to represent the little guy. I mean, it's 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.600 easy to imagine him siding with Can't Lay and these things. 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:20.560 So right, there's three votes, and it gets interesting because 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:24.280 this people talk about this like it's a done deal, 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.320 but it's not. And that's becoming more and more clear. 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:27.760 And there's gonna be there's gonna be a lot of 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:29.520 give and take, and there's gonna be a lot of wrangling, 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:32.400 and this process is not done. It's just beginning. 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:40.560 I mean so, uh, this to me has always felt 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:49.360 like the sum total of Live was doing what it 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.680 was doing. The tour had reacted the way it reacted. 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:58.800 They were the sponsors. We knew enough. You've known way 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:00.760 more than me, but we've talked to a lot of 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.400 tournament sponsors. We know tournament sponsors were not happy. They 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.840 were lined up and talking about their future to say, 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.160 we have a watered down product. You're asking us for 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.880 more money. Uh, this this makes no sense. That doesn't 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.160 pencil out. You're talking at us, not with us. We 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:21.120 keep getting surprised by this news and everything that goes 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:24.400 along with it. You're trying to control what it is 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.560 that you know, our our sometimes decades long commitment to 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.880 this tour product, and you're treating us like this. You know, 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.719 we we knew the Jim Cranes were very verbal and 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:39.040 vocal right from the from the outset, and we're and 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.520 we're you know, using leverage, and he was one of 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.160 the guys who could have afforded. So you know that 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.040 there was a lot of places that were so we 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:53.559 knew the tour was was against the ropes, non sustainable 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:58.040 water down product, asking for more money. You know, something 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:04.000 had to give. So this this, this seemed to me 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.240 like Done and Hurley he got in this room and 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:11.360 said for the better of Like we'll deal with the 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:18.200 players later. They're going to eventually understand that without this whatever, 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:20.960 you know, let's not call it a merger, but without 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:27.680 this agreement, without this partnership, without piff money, and without 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.760 trying to find a way of union, you know, unifying 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.440 this world of professional here when they talk about golf, 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:35.960 this is good for golf, this is this is professional golf. 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:41.640 This is this is like just professional golf. The difference 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.040 between NFL and baseball and when no one's running around 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:51.000 playing those sports, you know, for a lifetime you know activity, Yeah, 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.760 like we do with golf, like golf. Like that's why 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:55.520 I was trying to say in the last podcast. Is 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.720 golf for me is what we play? Professional golf is 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:03.680 this cash grab great, go get it, and the big 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.000 trophies during the majors mean a little something more and 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.439 you're going down in the history books and that's how 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.520 you'll be judging from a legacy standpoint. But Done and 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:15.040 Hurley he basically I think now and Monhann are left 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:19.840 explaining to players like Can'tley or others, Hey, guys, you 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.640 can either get on board with this, or you can 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.240 get on board with something that is going to be 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:30.840 like a shell of what you've been used to or 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.440 what you think is happening for the future of the 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.080 PGA Tour. There's no more Tiger fills it, you know, 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:40.000 now creeping into his mid fifties, like we got to 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.439 get on, getting on, or this is going to come 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:43.400 to a crashing halt. 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:48.320 Yeah, you know there's a third written true, but there's 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.160 a third rail here where now that the tour has 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:57.600 introduced this idea of becoming a for profit entity, if 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.719 they can't come to terms with the piff the Saudis, 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.000 they could go to other private equity folks. And there's 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.120 there's plenty of been sniffing around. I mean, Rain Capital 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.960 was involved with the Premier Golf League and they're they're 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:13.720 still involved. I mean the guy who runs rain Capital, 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.559 essentially Colin Neville. He was in the room in Delaware. 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:21.800 He's been an advisor to Rory and Tiger, and he 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.000 could probably raise a billion dollars with a few phone 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:24.679 calls now. 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.360 So they can still go for for profit without having 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.760 this part this this this deal get. 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.920 Done, yeah, because that's in the language like if basically 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:36.760 it's one of the clauses that was in this this 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.040 framework agreement. We're going to try our best and good 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:40.800 faith to make this work, and if not, we'll shake 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:42.839 hands and go our separate ways and can continue doing 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:48.080 our own thing. And so you know everyone's talked about 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.600 well this this was a trojan horse by the Saudis 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.480 start live force the tour to capitulate take over the tour. 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:56.320 Well you could look at the other way around. This 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.680 is a trojan horse by the tour to become for profit, 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.400 to introduce this idea of reshaping the business. They can 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.760 now discard the Saudis trying to reclaim the moral high ground, 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.599 and the players will go along with anything at this 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.600 point because they understand the extential crisis to their business. 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:14.720 And you can bring in a blackwater. I mean, there's 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.640 there's a million hedge funds and private equity places out 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.400 there that would would pour money into it. So this 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.680 it's a little fragile right now. And you know clearly 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:26.440 that the piff has more money than anybody else but 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.880 they don't have all the money. There's other places, and 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.000 so that that becomes a whole interesting subtext to this. 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.000 Now it just to continue the thought exercise. If that 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.040 were to happen, it's still a win for the tour. 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.760 And that they've ended the litigation and that was dismissed 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.720 without prejudice, meaning you can never refile it like it's 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.240 done forever. All the both. 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.800 Sides wanted that, right, That was the other thing. Yeah, 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.680 ten poles, none of those top guys wanted their phones confiscated, 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.880 emails revealed, none of that, like all those they all 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.600 and the Saudis wanted. Everybody wanted to keep their own ship, 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:02.480 their own ship. 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.360 Yeah, but you know, the ending the litigation does not 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:09.280 end the Department of Justice anti trust investigation. So it 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.200 definitely turns the volume down on all the legal wrangling. 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.320 But the Department of Justice is still sniffing around. And 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.800 you know, Monahan's comment that we did this to take 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:20.360 a competitor off the board was a huge blunder because 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:25.280 that just gives more scrutiny to this. This notion that 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:27.720 this merger, which is not really a merger, but that's 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.840 become a common usage, was designed to, you know, to 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.800 to thwart the competition between these two entities, and that 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.000 that is classic anti trust. So and that's why these 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:40.920 guys are getting haled in front of in front of 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.920 you know, senators because this is this is an ongoing issue. 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:48.160 It does taking away the lawsuit and the kind of 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.800 lawsuit does help, But the Department of Justice, they're the 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:52.840 ones who are snatching the phone. It's not the lawyers 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:54.920 for each side, they don't have that authority, but the 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:59.720 Department Justice does. So that's that's an ongoing background. So 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.800 for this framework agreement to become final, they have to 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.760 convince the board, they have to get the players behind it, 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.640 and they have to survive an anti trust investigation. So 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.880 it's it's tenuous, but. 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.520 There's also a fract. There's also a there's also a 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:19.080 splinter between the It's not just the players on board, 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.680 right there is there is this whole group of players 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.280 who are represented by a whole group of agents who 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.280 are like, where do we fit into all of this? Right? 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.480 Yeah? I mean that the agents in the in the 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.080 age of Live had more power they've ever had before 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.080 because they were the conduits for all this deal making. 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:43.000 And you know, this guy, Magined al Soror, who was 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.960 running live day to day for its first year plus. 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:48.920 He was a great relationship builder with the agents, and 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:50.640 a lot of them call them like my guy. You know, 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:54.760 Imagined was my guy. He's gone now. But the agents, 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.200 it was it was like Christmas every day for them. 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.920 You know, they these once in a lifetime windfalls. Because 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.240 it's so funny how this is so subtle. But the 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:10.040 relationship between agents and players varies. But generally they get 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.560 twenty percent of endorsement money, but they don't get anything 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.919 that's on the golf course. Now, what is the live contract. 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.520 It falls into this gray area. It's not a classic endorsement. 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.520 It's like an appearance feed, but not exactly. It's it's 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.960 not winnings per se. And so the players and the 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.760 agents had to negotiate this individually, how they were going 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:34.160 to handle these big signing bonuses. And generally they most 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.480 didn't pay twenty percent, some paid as little as ten, 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.320 some paid fifteen. But these were you know, fifteen percent. 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:41.760 One hundred million dollars is a heck of a lot 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:43.600 of money for these agents, and so. 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.840 Instead of negotiating for their clients, the negotiating with their clients. 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.000 Yeah. Yeah, it's a fascinating subtext. I get into all 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:54.960 the stuff in the book. And so yeah, if this, 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.040 and this is another thing that was in the framework 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.879 agreement is that they agreed that players cannot switch to 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.320 while this is being negotiated. So there's the idea of 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:08.359 Live recruiting other players is on hold until this shakes out. Now. 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:13.280 If so, just to extend this thought exercise, what happens 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.639 if this whole thing blows up, Well, then Live is 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.880 back in business. The tour has forfeited the moral argument. 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.080 They've they've given the stamp of approval to the Saudi money. 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.520 Then therefore there's no reason for anyone to stay on 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.240 the PGA tour. So so the tour is like fighting 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.320 for its life here. They've got to consummate this agreement. 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.119 But there's these powerful forces that are making it complex. 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:38.600 So it's gonna be interesting to see how this all 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.479 plays out. And to your question of like fifteen minutes ago, 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.040 I never fully answered what happens to Live. I mean, 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.520 it's increasingly clear they're going to play a live schedule 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:49.520 in twenty twenty four because this is not going to 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:55.119 be resolved, there's contracts in plays, the schedules finalized, So 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.200 I think Live is safe for twenty four and then 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.800 then it's going to be a fundamental question. And you know, 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.200 for for Yasir, it's still his baby and he has 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.959 absolute power. Right, So, like people weren't tuned into this, 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.280 but the season finale U for this year and Live 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.919 Golf was supposed to be in Miami, it got it 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:19.400 got moved to Jetta, Saudi Arabia. No one in Live 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.200 wanted it to go to Jedda. So now their biggest, 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:23.800 most important event is played in the middle of the 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:28.040 night with no fans and in a you know, versus Miami, 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:30.520 which is a fun party town. It's be in prime 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:35.119 time whatever. But Yaser wanted it so that therefore it's done, 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:39.040 and so if he keeps Live going, he can reshape 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.240 it along those lines. He can do whatever he wants. 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.159 Whereas if you if they fold up Live and he 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:47.679 just becomes an investor in the tour, he has tons 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.639 of say. But the status quo is powerful, Like, you know, 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.920 maybe they could get one tour event in Saudi Arabia, 0:19:55.400 --> 0:20:00.320 but that's far from a sure thing. And so there's 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.600 various reasons to keep LIV going. Also to circumvent the 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.400 antitrust say, okay, we'll just keep it as its separate 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:10.120 thing where we're not anti competitive. We didn't we didn't 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:14.199 shut it down. There's that, and then there's just this 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.719 notion like why did they even get why do they 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:20.159 even launch Live? I mean, clearly they wanted to become 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.880 part of the Western world. They wanted to be accepting 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.560 the golf world. But you know, one of the pillars 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.560 of this vision twenty thirty, which is the you know, 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.520 MBS has staked his whole rain on this idea is 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:35.320 to increase tourism, and you know Live has a lot 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:37.359 of potential there, Like they could add a second event 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.840 in a different part of Saudi Arabia. You know, they 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.879 could leverage the star power of their players, and you 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:46.800 could have a Phil Micholson golf course or a brooks 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:51.240 Kepka golf course or whatever. And so there's various reasons 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:51.880 to keep it going. 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:55.680 Now that cam Smith golf course would be cool. 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.440 Yeah, it would just be like Pineer's number two all 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:00.960 domed greens, shit down. 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:03.200 I'm going to play a cam Smith golf course. 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:05.160 Yeah, it'd be a short game for days. It's kind 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:06.879 of like what's fill did at Whisper Rock, you know. 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:10.880 But so yeah, it's it's a very interesting question what's 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:14.640 going to happen to live golf, And there's a lot 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.280 of there's a lot of reasons to keep it going. 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:21.160 There's reasons not to. Partly it's not making money. In fact, 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.600 it's losing money. And also it would create this continued 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:26.879 schism in the game. Even if even if the live 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.520 guys can flow back and forth to the and make 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.240 some cameos on the PGA tour, it's complex as long 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:35.320 as it's in existence. So that's a foundational question. 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.720 Yeah, but to your point, now, it seems even if 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:45.400 this doesn't go through, doesn't happen, there is some on course, 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:50.840 some some live activation momentum as they're realizing if we 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:54.600 go to places where the tour doesn't go, we have 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:58.400 we have an audience on site. It's going to feel 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:02.360 bigger than it's it's been feeling bigger than the US Open, oh, 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:06.520 by the way, which is a whole other conversation. But 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.720 then also you have you have it should got to 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:14.119 be easier to get you know, some sort of distribution 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:19.680 deals done by virtue of they're no longer apparently according 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.840 to the tour, they're no longer the enemy. In this wording, 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.080 the verbage that jumped out to me is they go 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:29.960 from essentially enemy number one to premier corporate Piff being 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:34.520 the premier corporate sponsor. The premier corporate sponsor goes from 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:35.320 zero to hero. 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:43.119 Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, So distribution. 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:46.160 Could get easier. They're learning from their mistakes. They still 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:49.520 have they still have the players that are that are interesting, 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:55.240 that's been you know, you know, Brooks, cam Phil finishing second, 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:59.720 the Masters, these guys are these guys are playing golf. Yeah. 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:04.399 I mean if to me, if I'm yeah, yeah, and 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:07.120 you get world ranking points, it would clearly be easier 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:09.240 to recruit in the future. I mean, if I'm auser, 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:10.920 why not why not have the best of both worlds. 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:13.520 You have you keep you keep liv going and you 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:15.400 do whatever you want with it, and then you have 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:19.240 you have you have Piff running the PGA Tour on 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:21.680 some level like you could have. He could have both. 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:23.960 I mean, all it takes is money. And if it's 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:28.000 always been their strategy to get the investment back from 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:30.640 Live to try and sell these franchises and so they've 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:34.720 never really even gone to market with that. Who knows 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:37.480 what the market would support. I mean, it's an interesting 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:40.440 thought exercise. Now as as as you say, they've they've 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:45.680 been welcomed into the larger ecosystem. So it's it's gonna 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:48.320 be fascinating to see how this plays out. And on hand, 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:52.720 you know, what if if Jay walks away and well, 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:56.280 you know, the the Senate testimony is gonna be very 0:23:56.280 --> 0:23:58.640 interesting because if he doesn't show up for that, then 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:01.359 it's pretty clear either his health problems are more serious 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:05.040 than they've led on or he's he's he's stepping away. 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:07.040 And if he does show up, it's gonna be a 0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:09.160 big deal. It's probably gonna be his first public appearance 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:10.720 and there'll be a lot of energy around that. So, 0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:14.800 you know, where does Monaghan fit into this? There's no 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:17.600 clear successor, Like you know, Tim Fincham made it very 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:22.119 obvious that Jay Monahan was going to succeed him. Because 0:24:22.160 --> 0:24:24.240 Monahan's so much younger and he's only been on the 0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:28.000 job for five years, there hasn't been an obvious candidate 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:30.359 to replace him yet, and so that would touch off 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:33.840 a whole other thing because it's already a big job. 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:35.280 Now it could be monumental. 0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:39.000 So why I saw Jimmy Dunn at Augusta National a 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:42.760 few weeks before the Masters with Rory McElroy and Shane Lowry, 0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:48.200 they and Tom Brady. It seemed to me that they're 0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:52.120 very close, Rory being Rory, Jimmy Dunn being Jimmy Dunn. 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:57.119 I mean Jimmy Dunn is that they would the PGA 0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:00.000 Tour would be in a good place if Jimmy Dunn 0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:04.600 stayed at the wheel from a from a business standpoint 0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:09.359 and from a from a diplomatic standpoint, just in the 0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:11.480 Pulley has with play with key players. 0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:16.840 Yeah, I mean it's an interesting idea. I'm not sure 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:20.639 he'd want it because being the commissioner is a grind. 0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:24.200 I mean, you're going to thirty plus events a year, 0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:27.080 every player on tours in your in your ear, bitching 0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:30.040 about X, Y and Z. You've got to glad hand 0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:35.919 all the sponsors. You've got to. It's you're negotiating tons 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:39.240 of contracts. You've got to. There's a corporate side, there's 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:41.679 a TV side, there's pick a pick a commissioner. 0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:44.160 If you if you could wave a wand right now, 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:46.640 based on all that you know and everything you've seen 0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:50.639 and heard, who's the best commissioner to replace ja Jamon 0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:53.120 And if that, if that were to come about. 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:58.800 Mm I would say Joe Ogilvie, you know, former tour player, 0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:02.920 now in the finance world, incredibly smart, knows the business. 0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:04.280 How's the respect of the players? 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:07.560 You know, like twenty five years. 0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:10.800 I mean, it was always kind of a joke just 0:26:10.840 --> 0:26:14.240 because he was he was so clever and so well spoken. 0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:16.800 But now he's had success in the business world and 0:26:16.840 --> 0:26:19.880 he's become kind of this oracle. Uh, you know when 0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:22.600 he talked about these things, people pay attention. One of 0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:24.200 the reason that Dean Bemon had such a long run 0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:25.760 was because he was a player, and he was a 0:26:25.760 --> 0:26:28.240 pretty successful player and he and it's one of the 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:31.639 reasons why the guys on LIV love Greg Norman because 0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:34.720 he just has a player's perspective. You know, Finchham didn't 0:26:34.760 --> 0:26:37.399 have that, Monahan doesn't have that. So I think at 0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:39.920 this very fraught year, to have a former player would 0:26:39.920 --> 0:26:42.879 would be huge. I mean, we joke about Jeff. I 0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:44.600 know I was gonna say, we joke about Jeff all 0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:46.520 the time because he has such a great mind. I 0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:48.240 know for a fact he doesn't want the job because 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:50.840 it's so thankless, even though it's a nice paycheck. Got 0:26:52.880 --> 0:26:55.480 But yeah, So, I mean, the think about Jimmy Dunn, 0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:59.520 Like that Golf Channel interview he gave or he said 0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:01.720 he would you know, he would kill the terrorists himself, 0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:04.679 Like that was a major red flag. Of all the 0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:06.760 out of pocket things that have been said during this 0:27:06.800 --> 0:27:10.479 whole controversy, that was one of the wildest. And you know, 0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:15.240 you need a certain disposition and a certain diplomacy to 0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:18.440 be the commissioner, especially in this fraught moment. And there's 0:27:18.440 --> 0:27:20.760 no doubt that Jimmy Dunn is great at building relationships 0:27:20.760 --> 0:27:23.760 in various grill rooms of fancy golf clubs, and people 0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:27.159 love his company. But you know, that was sort of 0:27:27.200 --> 0:27:32.040 his national debut in the media spotlight, and that was 0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:34.600 like wow, I can't believe he just said wow. So 0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:36.880 I liked it. 0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:38.879 I mean, I liked I liked the fire. But I 0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:41.520 get your point, He's probably not the best to be like. 0:27:41.600 --> 0:27:44.640 I was like, Okay, I love I mean, I've I've 0:27:44.680 --> 0:27:47.359 had a couple of really cool experiences with Jimmy Dunn. 0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:51.840 I would I would follow him, you know, anywhere he went. 0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:55.119 But that was that was that was that was abrupt 0:27:55.160 --> 0:27:57.880 and abrasive to be said on Golf Channel. 0:27:58.760 --> 0:28:03.800 Yeah all of all. So who knows like that would 0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:04.639 be a big job. 0:28:06.440 --> 0:28:10.920 Greg Norman, in your mind, stays or goes regardless. I mean, 0:28:10.920 --> 0:28:13.000 what's the what is his status? 0:28:13.960 --> 0:28:16.280 I think he'll fight hard to stay on through twenty 0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:21.359 four and have pretend he has the role and to 0:28:21.359 --> 0:28:23.800 to look like he has the place in this new 0:28:23.800 --> 0:28:29.560 world order. And but clearly he's been an impediment if 0:28:29.560 --> 0:28:31.600 we're trying to put the game back together. None of 0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:34.400 the tour players want him around. No one in pont 0:28:34.400 --> 0:28:38.080 of Euder Beach wants him. I think, you know, Greg's 0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:41.160 almost seventy. I think you know, I was told by 0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:43.440 people Live he has a huge gold in parachute. I 0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:45.160 think he stays on as long as he feels like 0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:48.840 he can declare victory and then just just sort of 0:28:48.920 --> 0:28:53.480 right off into the sunset. He's so polarizing and so divisive, 0:28:54.200 --> 0:28:57.400 I can't imagine he would last longer than that. Assuming 0:28:57.560 --> 0:29:00.040 that this gets consummated and this new code does be 0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:02.040 come a thing, if it all blows up and Live 0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:04.840 just stays independent, then maybe you know he'll last longer. 0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:09.480 But if you're trying to to reimagine professional golf, I 0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:11.720 don't see a place for him. 0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:18.840 Meanwhile, Tiger would like, what what what? Obviously you've heard nothing, 0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:23.280 because otherwise everyone would have heard something. But what is 0:29:23.640 --> 0:29:24.440 where is Tiger? 0:29:26.800 --> 0:29:28.720 I mean, what I have heard about Tiger is that 0:29:28.800 --> 0:29:33.360 he wasn't stoked, but he also understands. I mean, Tiger's 0:29:33.600 --> 0:29:35.960 Tiger's a very black and white personality, right. 0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:36.640 And. 0:29:38.000 --> 0:29:40.240 He doesn't get caught up in the nuance like he 0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:44.200 That's just how he's always kind of done things. And 0:29:44.360 --> 0:29:46.840 when he ends in a relationship, it's over and it's 0:29:46.880 --> 0:29:47.600 cold blooded. 0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:48.880 He locks the door. 0:29:49.520 --> 0:29:52.680 Yeah, exactly, we're gonna drive you to the airport on vacation, 0:29:52.800 --> 0:29:54.400 and we're gonna change a lot from while you're gone 0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:57.840 like that. So I think Tiger's already moved on. Like Okay, 0:29:58.480 --> 0:30:00.400 I said, if I wanted to say, I took a 0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:05.200 stand the other side. The other side prevailed tentatively, and 0:30:05.520 --> 0:30:08.880 let's go. I mean, how he's already thinking of, you know, 0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:11.440 ways he can leverage this. I'm sure he's looking at 0:30:11.480 --> 0:30:14.680 golf course design projects somewhere in the Persian golf as 0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:16.840 we speak, you know, at least on Google Maps whatever. 0:30:16.960 --> 0:30:24.320 Like Tiger's a pretty rapacious businessman. And now now he 0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:27.960 just got the okay to do business in Saudi Arabia. 0:30:28.120 --> 0:30:33.640 So you know, his his arguments were always about the 0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:36.120 competitive nature of live golf, I mean everything he said. 0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:40.640 He never made the moral argument. He always said, I 0:30:40.640 --> 0:30:43.880 don't like it because they haven't earned it. And the 0:30:43.880 --> 0:30:47.280 players who are going over there, what's the incentive to practice? 0:30:47.400 --> 0:30:49.400 Where the guaranteed money? All this and that you know, 0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:53.800 Tigers saw it through the competitive lens, and so I 0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:54.640 don't think he's. 0:30:54.640 --> 0:30:57.640 The other from a legacy lens too. Like we talked 0:30:57.680 --> 0:31:01.400 about eighty two and fifteen. You know, if there's some 0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:04.720 sort of like breakaway tour and everything goes that direction, 0:31:04.960 --> 0:31:08.680 then and eighty two PGA Tour wins and fifteen majors, 0:31:08.760 --> 0:31:13.040 fifteen majors, you know, can stand stand the test of time. 0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:16.520 But eighty two PGA tour wins is something that think 0:31:16.560 --> 0:31:20.080 about what that took to get to that number. That's 0:31:20.120 --> 0:31:23.120 a number worth worth protecting and standing by. If I 0:31:23.600 --> 0:31:27.360 would never know, but eighty two wins is eighty two wins. 0:31:27.440 --> 0:31:29.760 I totally agree. I mean Tiger was trying to preserve 0:31:30.000 --> 0:31:32.720 the legacy the PGA Tour. That's always been his platform. 0:31:32.840 --> 0:31:37.080 That's where and if the tour is devalued, then on 0:31:37.120 --> 0:31:40.800 some level people could possibly devalue his accountment. It's hard 0:31:40.800 --> 0:31:43.360 to imagine. You know, what he did, it will always 0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:45.440 stand the test of time, but you don't want the 0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:50.440 tour diminished, and you know, potentially this strengthens the tour. 0:31:50.560 --> 0:31:55.520 I mean I said this previously, like that, if you take, 0:31:56.120 --> 0:31:59.680 if you set aside the moral argument, which is complex, 0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:02.200 but if you can, if you can eliminate that, this 0:32:02.280 --> 0:32:04.080 could be a huge win for the PGA Tour. You 0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:07.600 they still control the day to day bureaucracy, have access 0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:11.400 unlimited money. They can craft a global schedule that incorporates 0:32:11.400 --> 0:32:16.040 the best European tour events, and they can they can 0:32:16.080 --> 0:32:19.880 get back players that matter. Cam Smith matters Brooks Kopka 0:32:20.160 --> 0:32:24.720 very much, matters Dustin Still. Could you know name a 0:32:24.720 --> 0:32:26.760 few others, Patrick reied, I mean, Bryson's played great in 0:32:26.800 --> 0:32:30.640 the majors like that. It doesn't serve the tour's interest 0:32:30.720 --> 0:32:34.280 not to have access to those players. So I think 0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:38.440 Tiger sees that Okay, we're this is going to strengthen 0:32:38.480 --> 0:32:41.200 the tour if it goes through. And even if even 0:32:41.240 --> 0:32:43.480 if the fift deal falls apart, they're gonna They're gonna 0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:45.520 wind up with private equity money and the tour can 0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:50.000 can can retrench. So I think I think Tiger he 0:32:50.080 --> 0:32:52.120 never wants to be on the outside looking in. That's 0:32:52.120 --> 0:32:55.680 not a it's not his normal position. But he's a 0:32:55.800 --> 0:32:58.760 he's a bottom line guy. And I think he recognizes 0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:00.480 that the tour had to do something in here. 0:33:01.320 --> 0:33:05.320 And and let's not kid ourselves. And Mark Steinberg is 0:33:05.360 --> 0:33:09.520 a huge player in the in the game of professional golf, 0:33:10.120 --> 0:33:15.200 given his relationship with and and and partnership with Tiger Woods. 0:33:15.200 --> 0:33:20.440 So I mean there's he's gonna have to get whatever 0:33:20.480 --> 0:33:22.840 it is he needs to get or wants to get 0:33:22.960 --> 0:33:25.560 out of some sort of deal as it relates to 0:33:25.880 --> 0:33:28.840 not only Tiger but his stable of players. I just 0:33:29.480 --> 0:33:33.440 I I still wonder where, where and what he's how 0:33:33.480 --> 0:33:35.280 involved he is in all of this. 0:33:36.240 --> 0:33:37.800 Yeah, I mean that goes back to why I set 0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:40.920 the top up, making the players hole. I mean, Steinberg 0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:47.160 very clearly with with Tigers urging and nudging, refused to 0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:49.680 send anybody to live. The only the only Excel Sports 0:33:49.680 --> 0:33:52.120 management guy who went with Thomas Peters, and they parted 0:33:52.120 --> 0:33:54.200 ways of them as soon as he landed in Mexico. 0:33:54.360 --> 0:33:58.480 So this new co is now a chance for these 0:33:58.480 --> 0:34:01.120 players to get paid for their loyal t you know, 0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:04.080 Jimmy Dunn talked about granting them equity in the new company. 0:34:04.080 --> 0:34:07.320 That could be very valuable over time. But what these 0:34:07.320 --> 0:34:11.480 guys want is cold hard cash. And there's no more 0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:15.160 rules anymore. It's if it's a for profit business, they 0:34:15.239 --> 0:34:17.879 can They could just give spot bonuses. Okay, Rory, here's 0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:20.879 one hundred million, John ram here's your seventy five million. 0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:24.200 This is your loyalty bonus. They can They can give 0:34:24.320 --> 0:34:26.400 all the middle class, the guys who are so up 0:34:26.400 --> 0:34:28.480 in arms at the players meetings. They can say, Okay, 0:34:28.960 --> 0:34:30.879 you know in twenty twenty three, you got a five 0:34:30.920 --> 0:34:33.439 hundred thousand dollars stipend from the tour. Now it's three 0:34:33.440 --> 0:34:36.120 million dollars. How do you feel now? Now they're happy. 0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:40.279 They can they can be your appearance fees, there can 0:34:40.320 --> 0:34:43.719 be bonuses, there's all this stuff. The piff money now 0:34:43.760 --> 0:34:47.439 allows the players to be repaid for their loyalty, even 0:34:47.560 --> 0:34:50.000 Chess and Hadley, which is funny because he was so 0:34:50.040 --> 0:34:53.880 bitchy about it. But and so Steinberg needs that. He 0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:56.359 needs that because he told his players not to go, 0:34:56.880 --> 0:35:01.080 and he drew a line in the sand and they gave. 0:35:01.120 --> 0:35:03.440 They left a lot of money on the table collectively. 0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:07.280 So this is important for the Steinberg's of the world 0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:10.000 and his players and the guys who didn't go. They 0:35:10.040 --> 0:35:12.880 need to get paid and the PIFF money allows them 0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:13.399 to do so. 0:35:14.040 --> 0:35:16.239 It also allows the tour to will continue to work 0:35:16.320 --> 0:35:19.840 with sponsors that they want to work with, that they've 0:35:19.880 --> 0:35:22.920 been working with at an affordable rate. So if the 0:35:23.040 --> 0:35:25.239 number is twenty million that they need to get to 0:35:25.560 --> 0:35:29.160 per tournament, and PIFF puts in ten and that means 0:35:29.520 --> 0:35:32.240 the AT and T's or the Chevrons or whoever else 0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:35.279 you know, whoever else is coming in as you know, 0:35:35.400 --> 0:35:38.800 John Deere's and every but now it's there can still 0:35:38.840 --> 0:35:41.160 there can be an affordable rate. You're back down to 0:35:41.200 --> 0:35:44.120 the eight to twelve to potentially you know, the fifteen 0:35:44.200 --> 0:35:47.800 million dollar range as opposed to asking these these sponsors 0:35:47.840 --> 0:35:50.719 for twenty million and you get a better product as 0:35:50.760 --> 0:35:56.160 a result. Do you think there there is some potential 0:35:56.400 --> 0:36:00.880 for a live versus tour team events and you know, 0:36:01.520 --> 0:36:05.920 to to cash to cash in on some sense of 0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:10.880 the the uh, the competitive spirit so to speak. 0:36:12.040 --> 0:36:15.400 I mean that would be a blockbuster if if live endurors, 0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:17.919 why not have a couple of co sanctioned events and 0:36:18.640 --> 0:36:20.359 you know that people don't pay any attention to them, 0:36:20.360 --> 0:36:22.520 but they have these point standings on live for both 0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:24.760 the teams and individual players. Based on how they finish, 0:36:24.840 --> 0:36:28.160 they accrue points, and so you could say, okay, the 0:36:28.200 --> 0:36:32.879 top six live teams will then now take on six 0:36:32.960 --> 0:36:36.359 teams of PGA Tour loyalists. And how how much fun 0:36:36.400 --> 0:36:40.399 would that be and how the tour players arrange that 0:36:40.400 --> 0:36:43.359 would be that'd be part of the backstory who who 0:36:43.440 --> 0:36:48.359 drafts who, all the allegiances and how much fun would 0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:50.000 those tournaments be? I mean there would be like a 0:36:50.040 --> 0:36:54.440 real energy around them, and the money could count for 0:36:54.719 --> 0:36:56.799 you know, the tour money list, and the PIFF could 0:36:56.800 --> 0:36:59.840 pay the whole perse and that could that would be 0:36:59.840 --> 0:37:01.920 a huge boost to live obviously, and I think it'd 0:37:01.960 --> 0:37:05.520 be fun for fans. And there was language in the 0:37:05.520 --> 0:37:09.719 framework agreement that you know that the pg Tour and 0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:12.880 the European Tour will make this good faith effort to 0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:17.239 incorporate Team Golf into its schedule. It's quite possible to 0:37:17.239 --> 0:37:21.919 just cannibalize the idea if Live goes away, But if 0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:24.120 Live enders, I think it would be insane not not 0:37:24.200 --> 0:37:25.759 to have some of these tournaments where you bring it 0:37:25.800 --> 0:37:30.480 together and it just creates this this whole other subplot. 0:37:30.600 --> 0:37:34.120 So yeah, and a whole other marketing component in terms 0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:38.719 of logos and merchandise, and it's a way for I mean, 0:37:38.840 --> 0:37:40.800 you know, and if you take if you take this 0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:44.720 ZERI Classic and see the popularity of that sub event 0:37:44.840 --> 0:37:47.719 within the tour already and you kind of expand upon that. 0:37:48.320 --> 0:37:54.080 So so just to summarize, your biggest takeaway from reading this, 0:37:54.680 --> 0:37:57.839 you know, this term sheet, so to speak, is that 0:37:58.360 --> 0:38:00.320 it's got a long way to go to actually become 0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:02.799 a reality to you know that that that was your 0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:06.799 biggest takeaway, as wow, this is this is just the framework. 0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:10.480 Yeah, because they're you know, when when Jay was talking 0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:12.560 about it, and Jimmy Dunn was talking about and even 0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:15.960 Yosser on CNBC, there were not a lot of specifics, 0:38:16.200 --> 0:38:18.360 so you you kind of felt like, are they holding 0:38:18.440 --> 0:38:20.160 back They don't want to say the wrong thing, But No, 0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:22.399 there are just no specifics period because they're not even 0:38:22.400 --> 0:38:25.719 in the document like they were just there's nothing like 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:27.920 they basically just sketched out in the back of a 0:38:27.960 --> 0:38:30.440 cocktail napkin and that said, okay, here took it to 0:38:30.440 --> 0:38:34.080 the lawyers to make this soun official. So yeah, there's 0:38:34.120 --> 0:38:35.879 there's clearly a long way to go. 0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:38.960 And it was like everything negotiable except for like this, 0:38:38.960 --> 0:38:41.400 this and this otherwise, like everything's on the table. 0:38:42.160 --> 0:38:44.600 Yeah, I mean if you just put those guys back 0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:47.960 in that cigar bar in London, it would not be 0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:50.319 easy to get to the finish line. Now you have 0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:54.160 all the player directors, you have all the pack you 0:38:54.280 --> 0:38:57.840 have Keith Pelly in the European Tour and all his constituents, 0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:00.680 you have the Department of Justice, you have Senator Blumenthal, 0:39:00.800 --> 0:39:05.520 like you've just added another a bunch of problematic you know, 0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:10.520 cooked into the kitchen and so it it's you know, 0:39:10.560 --> 0:39:12.080 you get you get ten tour players in the room. 0:39:12.080 --> 0:39:13.360 They can't even just have what kind of pizza they 0:39:13.360 --> 0:39:15.560 want to order, like this is this is going to 0:39:15.640 --> 0:39:20.600 be really complex. So yeah, the key takeaways are they 0:39:20.680 --> 0:39:23.040 have a long way to go. There's not a lot 0:39:23.080 --> 0:39:26.799 of clarity. The future of live golf remains uncertain. 0:39:28.440 --> 0:39:32.880 The and the future of j Monahan is uncertain. Future 0:39:32.920 --> 0:39:36.440 of Greg Norman is uncertain, future of like the future 0:39:36.440 --> 0:39:39.279 of the team component is uncertain. The future like it's 0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:41.320 just uncertain, uncertain, uncertain. 0:39:41.600 --> 0:39:44.200 The only short thing is is yaser. But again, if 0:39:44.239 --> 0:39:49.920 they can't consummate this agreement, doesn't the piff is not 0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:51.640 a sure thing like that. They have to get this 0:39:51.760 --> 0:39:56.360 in the barn. I mean, so the PJ Tour will 0:39:56.480 --> 0:39:59.759 endure on some level, whether they bring in private equity 0:39:59.800 --> 0:40:03.120 money or or they wind up with the piff. I mean, 0:40:03.200 --> 0:40:05.960 it could even prosper. But the only thing we know 0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:09.120 is that they're gonna play golf next year under the 0:40:09.160 --> 0:40:13.840 PGA Tour umbrella, and everything else is a maybe. And 0:40:14.920 --> 0:40:19.280 it's it's a fascinating moment. It it just it throws 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:24.920 everything everything we thought we knew is is up for grabs. 0:40:25.160 --> 0:40:27.560 You know, it seemed like, what about what about the 0:40:27.640 --> 0:40:31.840 Ryder Cup? It does loosen things upright for Captain's picks 0:40:31.960 --> 0:40:35.719 Ryder Cup to to it has to write at some 0:40:35.960 --> 0:40:39.040 at some point we can drop the whole you know. 0:40:39.160 --> 0:40:41.279 I mean, this is the crazy thing is even this 0:40:41.320 --> 0:40:45.120 new this new era of cooperation, supposedly that the rules 0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:47.719 and regulations remain like this kind of religion. And so 0:40:48.440 --> 0:40:51.120 Keith Pelly said the day after all this news broke, 0:40:52.760 --> 0:40:56.279 you know, we only have two rules to play in 0:40:56.280 --> 0:40:58.080 in on the European team, and one of them is, 0:40:58.440 --> 0:41:01.320 you know, you have to be you have to be 0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:03.560 a member of the European Tour. And all the Live 0:41:03.640 --> 0:41:06.720 guys resigned so they won't have to pay their fines 0:41:07.560 --> 0:41:09.800 and if they want to they can. They can reapply 0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:11.839 for membership, but they'd have to pay their fines, they'd 0:41:11.840 --> 0:41:14.080 have to serve their suspensions. And then Pelic said, but 0:41:14.120 --> 0:41:16.839 even then we'd have to look at it because the 0:41:16.880 --> 0:41:19.520 deadline for membership was May first, and they missed the deadline. 0:41:19.560 --> 0:41:22.759 It's like, really key, like how much more like bureaucratic 0:41:22.800 --> 0:41:27.799 can you be? So it doesn't there's not too many 0:41:27.920 --> 0:41:32.200 guys who were strong contenders to play. I mean Thomas Peters, 0:41:31.880 --> 0:41:34.640 he's got a good case. He's been playing well this year. 0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:36.920 He was you know, thirty fourth in the world when 0:41:36.960 --> 0:41:40.239 he went to Live, so he was a contender. Burned Weisberger. 0:41:40.320 --> 0:41:43.200 He played in two thousand the last Ryder Cup, so 0:41:43.280 --> 0:41:45.480 he's he was a contender. You know, he hasn't been 0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:50.560 playing that well, I mean rom and Sergios. Yes, because 0:41:50.800 --> 0:41:53.080 because rom and Sergio went undefeated last time, and because 0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:55.840 rom Is advocated and he's so important the team, Sergio 0:41:55.920 --> 0:41:59.080 was in the mix. That's probably it. So three maybes. 0:41:59.600 --> 0:42:05.040 But it's just funny the team. Yeah, well that's true. 0:42:05.120 --> 0:42:08.239 I mean it's just funny that they're, oh, they missed 0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:10.720 the deadline. We can't do anything about it, like really, 0:42:10.800 --> 0:42:13.799 like everything's up for grabs. The US has always been 0:42:13.800 --> 0:42:18.080 in a different, different scenario where the PGA of America 0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:21.600 grandfathered all the live guys in because they don't want 0:42:21.600 --> 0:42:24.040 to deal with it. They're like, here's Zach, this is 0:42:24.040 --> 0:42:27.000 your problem, not ours. So they extended their their PG 0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:28.960 of American membership, so any of the any of the 0:42:29.040 --> 0:42:32.040 live guys can play, even those who resigned their tour 0:42:32.080 --> 0:42:35.560 membership because they were grand followed in by the pg 0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:37.959 of America. So now it's going to be up to Zach, 0:42:38.719 --> 0:42:42.239 and certainly it'll make it easier for him to pick 0:42:42.320 --> 0:42:48.279 Brooks and or Dustin because the walls have come down 0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:50.920 and they're not the bad guys anymore. But you know, 0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:53.200 Brooks is a sure thing whether he qualifies or not. 0:42:53.320 --> 0:42:55.640 Dustin has not played well enough in the majors. He's 0:42:55.640 --> 0:42:59.720 played well week to week on live. But it's interesting 0:42:59.760 --> 0:43:02.279 because even that starting to change, like everyone was so 0:43:02.360 --> 0:43:06.040 quick to devalue the live victories and the live performances. 0:43:06.360 --> 0:43:08.680 I did see something. It was it was Kyle Porter, 0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:10.800 who's been very anti live, but he had a he 0:43:10.840 --> 0:43:13.600 had a list of players were on the bubble for 0:43:13.600 --> 0:43:16.120 the Ryder Cup and it was worldwide wins and he 0:43:16.200 --> 0:43:18.560 included the live events. So it's like, all of a sudden, 0:43:18.560 --> 0:43:21.920 we're kind of upgrading the live events in this this 0:43:22.040 --> 0:43:26.200 new reality. So in that context, Dustin has two worldwide 0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:30.040 wins and he should be he should be a contender. 0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:33.479 I mean, Taylor Gooch is interesting because by any measure, 0:43:33.520 --> 0:43:36.160 he should probably be on the US team, but he's 0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:40.279 been so polarizing and he's been such a troll, and 0:43:40.320 --> 0:43:42.080 there's a lot of hard feelings around Taylor, and he 0:43:42.120 --> 0:43:44.719 was one of the guys who sued the tour, So 0:43:44.760 --> 0:43:47.080 I don't think he'll get strong consideration. Brooks and Dustin 0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:49.840 kind of stayed above the fray. They weren't parties to 0:43:49.840 --> 0:43:53.600 the lawsuits. They haven't been talking to any trash on Twitter, 0:43:54.160 --> 0:43:56.400 and so I think I think that they would be 0:43:56.440 --> 0:44:02.680 welcome back. Goot, no, Patrick Reid know, so those are 0:44:02.760 --> 0:44:04.840 those are probably the only other guys who would be 0:44:04.880 --> 0:44:05.400 in the mix. 0:44:06.400 --> 0:44:08.960 So what happens? What happens July eleventh? 0:44:09.000 --> 0:44:09.040 What? 0:44:09.200 --> 0:44:10.160 What? What's your sense? 0:44:13.440 --> 0:44:17.400 A lot of political grand standing, A lot of mealy 0:44:17.520 --> 0:44:27.439 mouthed pronouncements from the witnesses. Now will Will Yasser even 0:44:27.520 --> 0:44:31.240 show up? I mean that they they were prepared lives 0:44:31.320 --> 0:44:33.919 lawyers are prepared to go to the Supreme Court trying 0:44:33.920 --> 0:44:36.200 to prevent him from being deposed by the Department of 0:44:36.320 --> 0:44:40.640 Justice because he, you know, all Romayan has this dual 0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:44.239 role where he's a member of He's a high ranking 0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:47.520 member of the Saudi government. He's also maybe the world's 0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:51.640 most important businessman, and so as a as a sovereign, 0:44:51.640 --> 0:44:55.400 as a member of the sovereign you know, ruling party, 0:44:56.320 --> 0:44:58.960 he would probably be exempt from having to testify. As 0:44:59.000 --> 0:45:01.600 this business guy who runs a big oil company and 0:45:01.600 --> 0:45:05.240 who sponsored this this golf tour, they could probably compel 0:45:05.280 --> 0:45:10.319 him to testify. That was the early judgments from the 0:45:10.360 --> 0:45:14.200 lower courts saying, you know, that this falls. There's a 0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:17.880 carve out. If you're running commercial activities, you can't you 0:45:17.920 --> 0:45:21.759 can't claim immunity. So but that was head to the 0:45:21.800 --> 0:45:24.760 Supreme Court. That was part of why why the PGA 0:45:24.800 --> 0:45:26.919 tour cried uncle, because that was gonna take two years 0:45:26.960 --> 0:45:31.560 to get the Supreme Court. And so his role is unknown. 0:45:32.000 --> 0:45:35.840 I think they have until July fourth to declare to 0:45:35.920 --> 0:45:40.160 respond to the invitation. Essentially, Jay Day Monahan's health is unknown. 0:45:40.239 --> 0:45:42.160 The only guy who wants to be there is Greg Norman. 0:45:42.239 --> 0:45:44.920 Like he would love that because he was he's been 0:45:44.920 --> 0:45:48.239 marginalized in this process. He's had no voice, he's kind 0:45:48.239 --> 0:45:52.080 of been yeah, so he would love to be on 0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:54.359 Capitol Hill with all the cameras on him. And if 0:45:54.360 --> 0:45:57.719 you remember, you know he did this this big tour 0:45:57.760 --> 0:46:01.239 where he met with lawmakers and and this was set 0:46:01.280 --> 0:46:03.440 up by the lobbyists that live employees, and it was 0:46:03.520 --> 0:46:07.520 kind of a disaster because some of the lawmakers said 0:46:07.760 --> 0:46:10.799 they had some really harsh things to say about Norman afterwards, 0:46:10.800 --> 0:46:13.560 and the quotes went around the world. So even though 0:46:13.600 --> 0:46:16.840 he was burned, he the guy's so he lusts after 0:46:16.880 --> 0:46:19.560 the spotlight. So of the three, he's the only one 0:46:19.600 --> 0:46:22.239 who wants to be there, whether the other two you 0:46:22.280 --> 0:46:25.520 know in Monahan al Ramayan, will be compelled and or 0:46:25.560 --> 0:46:30.480 feel like it's in their best interest. So the political 0:46:30.520 --> 0:46:33.920 theater is going to be fabulous. And I don't know. 0:46:33.960 --> 0:46:35.560 I wonder if I should even if I should make 0:46:35.760 --> 0:46:38.960 a run out to d C. But we'll talk about 0:46:39.000 --> 0:46:41.520 that another time, you and I, Matt. It's gonna be 0:46:41.600 --> 0:46:45.239 it's gonna be interesting. Is it is. 0:46:45.239 --> 0:46:46.280 Your book done? 0:46:46.360 --> 0:46:46.600 Now? 0:46:46.640 --> 0:46:48.959 Did you did? Is it done? Down? Do you still 0:46:49.000 --> 0:46:50.080 have roomed update? 0:46:50.440 --> 0:46:52.040 Yeah? I stayed up last night working on it. I 0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:55.719 mean it's the publisher has committed taking this down to 0:46:55.760 --> 0:46:59.960 the wire. It doesn't go to print until mid August, 0:47:00.239 --> 0:47:03.879 so well after this stuff on Capitol Hill will play 0:47:03.920 --> 0:47:07.400 out after the Open Championship. After there's probably gonna be 0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:12.440 a World Ranking adjudication. So I'm constantly tweaking it. And 0:47:13.440 --> 0:47:14.920 it's so it's going to be up to the minute 0:47:16.680 --> 0:47:18.160 as much as you can be with a book that 0:47:18.200 --> 0:47:20.359 has to be printed and distributed. So yeah, no, I'm 0:47:20.400 --> 0:47:25.080 still I had turned it in, but we uh. It's 0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:27.719 always a process, even in any scenario when when when 0:47:27.719 --> 0:47:28.920 you turn in a book you get it back at 0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:31.279 least twice. It goes through their copy editing, it goes 0:47:31.320 --> 0:47:34.520 through the legal review. You're always you're always vetting it 0:47:34.600 --> 0:47:37.960 and looking for you know, misplaced commas and stuff like that. 0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:41.319 So there's always going to be some time now, you know, 0:47:41.360 --> 0:47:43.960 Simon Schuster and Avid Reader Press, to their great credit, 0:47:44.040 --> 0:47:47.240 they they're like, this is this is too big a deal. 0:47:48.040 --> 0:47:49.839 We have too much invested in this book. We want 0:47:49.840 --> 0:47:52.239 it to be as current as possible, so like it's 0:47:52.600 --> 0:47:57.080 institutionally we're taking it down to the last possible second 0:47:57.160 --> 0:47:58.359 so it's up to date. 0:47:59.280 --> 0:48:04.759 An excerpt obviously, will be hitting the Firepit Collective dot 0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:06.840 com at some point soon, which I'm excited about. 0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:08.799 Yeah, yeah, I already kind of know what I want 0:48:08.800 --> 0:48:10.879 to do for the first excerpt. It's going to be cool. 0:48:10.880 --> 0:48:15.439 I mean, the people have said, oh, you can just whisper. 0:48:15.120 --> 0:48:17.840 It to me. You can just tell me his microphone on. 0:48:19.719 --> 0:48:22.400 We'll let Connie Chung the Nuke Gangridge just whispered you have. 0:48:22.520 --> 0:48:27.719 All the cameras were rolling and they're wearing microphones. You know. 0:48:27.760 --> 0:48:29.719 Some folks have said, oh, do does this hurt the book? 0:48:29.760 --> 0:48:32.080 I think it helps it because there's so much context, 0:48:32.120 --> 0:48:34.680 like how do we get to this moment and the 0:48:34.680 --> 0:48:38.120 first excerpt, we'll dive into that, and and the things 0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:40.120 that Jaymonhan did or did not do along the way 0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:43.920 become even more paramount. And you know, I know. 0:48:44.040 --> 0:48:47.879 Enough to know about what you've said to me through 0:48:47.920 --> 0:48:50.839 the reporting process to know the book is definitely going 0:48:50.880 --> 0:48:51.920 to benefit from all of this. 0:48:52.480 --> 0:48:54.360 Yeah, and it's cool. The whole story is in one place. 0:48:54.400 --> 0:48:57.560 You know, we don't know the exact ending, but we 0:48:57.560 --> 0:49:01.439 we've just got a huge clue. So that's my dog 0:49:01.480 --> 0:49:03.040 whining in the background. I guess it's time to wrap 0:49:03.120 --> 0:49:05.680 up the podcast, according to Wante, but yeah, this is 0:49:07.360 --> 0:49:09.480 we didn't even get a chance to really talk about 0:49:09.960 --> 0:49:12.680 very quickly, Matt, because we tease at the top, like 0:49:12.760 --> 0:49:14.880 all the fun things that we're working on at the 0:49:14.880 --> 0:49:18.000 Firepit Collective. Give the listeners a little teaser on some 0:49:18.040 --> 0:49:20.879 of the stuff that's you know, there's these long form 0:49:21.000 --> 0:49:23.680 videos they're long ingestation Like we've been working on this 0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:25.080 stuff for a while. We haven't been able to leak 0:49:25.120 --> 0:49:26.640 it out, but what can people look forward to? 0:49:27.880 --> 0:49:30.560 Final letters are being made to our Dublin travel show 0:49:30.680 --> 0:49:34.280 as we speak. We are under the hood on building 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:40.080 out Belfast, which I'm excited about. We're also releasing a 0:49:40.120 --> 0:49:43.160 little sizzle about the project we have going to Pasa 0:49:43.200 --> 0:49:51.280 Tiempo jim Orbina restoring the original Alistair Mackenzie Greens after decades, 0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:56.560 almost one hundred years of sand splash and wash out 0:49:56.600 --> 0:50:00.279 from you know, different components of mother nature and top 0:50:00.360 --> 0:50:04.520 dressing and all that goes with all that. There were virtually, 0:50:04.840 --> 0:50:07.520 you know, very few pinnable locations if you're gonna run 0:50:07.560 --> 0:50:09.719 them at modern day green speeds at pasta tempo. So 0:50:09.800 --> 0:50:13.960 that's that's an incredible project that that I'm really excited about, 0:50:14.440 --> 0:50:17.680 that we're excited about. We have a couple that we 0:50:17.719 --> 0:50:20.440 actually can't talk about. We you know, we've already released 0:50:20.440 --> 0:50:25.680 the sizzle of Cobbs the building of Gamble Sands, David 0:50:25.719 --> 0:50:29.040 McClay kidd building a second course there, going back up 0:50:29.040 --> 0:50:33.520 to Brewster, Washington next week. We've been out and we're 0:50:33.560 --> 0:50:37.800 documenting some of what's happening at Cobbs Creek in Philadelphia 0:50:38.560 --> 0:50:43.560 and creating a sizzle video there. Canal Shores in Chicago 0:50:44.719 --> 0:50:47.919 is another project that we we've been on site for 0:50:48.080 --> 0:50:51.359 and we're we're looking to to document some of what's 0:50:51.400 --> 0:50:56.640 going to be happening there and and you know, obviously 0:50:56.640 --> 0:50:59.800 we put out the Maggie Hathaway feature really exciting about 0:51:00.200 --> 0:51:03.440 what's happening in Los Angeles to that nine whole Part 0:51:03.520 --> 0:51:07.600 three course and the you know, upwards of fifteen to 0:51:07.600 --> 0:51:12.200 eighteen million dollars being put into to that facility, which 0:51:12.280 --> 0:51:16.720 I think is what a nice tribute to a woman 0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:20.080 who I've just gotten to learn a lot about over 0:51:20.080 --> 0:51:22.160 the course of the last you know, a few months 0:51:22.200 --> 0:51:25.960 and beyond. And wow, what a powerhouse. You know, I 0:51:26.040 --> 0:51:29.640 talk about Susie Whaley or maryon Hollins or some of 0:51:29.680 --> 0:51:31.400 these other women who have had a big impact in 0:51:31.440 --> 0:51:35.600 the world of golf. Mega Maggie Hathaway is was all world. 0:51:35.600 --> 0:51:37.879 I wish I got to get got to meet her. 0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:42.200 Yeah, and one of our secret projects. My shoes are 0:51:42.200 --> 0:51:45.200 still dirty. I'm coming in hot from a secret spot 0:51:45.239 --> 0:51:47.560 in San Francisco and I can't say any more than that, 0:51:47.600 --> 0:51:52.480 but it was today and yeah, I mean, just just 0:51:52.520 --> 0:51:55.080 to give people a better idea, like these are all 0:51:55.520 --> 0:52:00.200 really cool golf course projects, restorations, new builds, whatever they 0:52:00.239 --> 0:52:03.680 may be, and we're kind of some of them are 0:52:03.719 --> 0:52:07.959 chronicling from the very very beginning and going back over 0:52:08.040 --> 0:52:09.960 time to see how it evolves. And you're there with 0:52:10.000 --> 0:52:12.520 the architects and the builders and the guys and the 0:52:12.520 --> 0:52:15.640 bulldozers and you know where I was today, they were 0:52:15.680 --> 0:52:19.359 hydro seeding. They're blasting, you know, thousands and thousands of 0:52:19.400 --> 0:52:22.160 grass seilings all over the It's like cool a lot 0:52:22.320 --> 0:52:27.600 and it's education for us and the one There are 0:52:27.640 --> 0:52:29.600 all different projects different parts of the country, but the 0:52:29.680 --> 0:52:32.480 connective tissue is the passion. Like the people behind these 0:52:32.480 --> 0:52:35.840 projects are just so into it and it's all about 0:52:36.040 --> 0:52:41.839 making great golf and they're public. I mean, Gamble Sands 0:52:41.560 --> 0:52:45.200 is just waiting for people to make that pilgrimage. Positive 0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:46.879 Tempo to me is one of the most important golf 0:52:46.880 --> 0:52:50.440 courses in the world because it's prime Alistair mackenzie that 0:52:50.480 --> 0:52:53.439 anybody can play. It's half the price of Pebble Beaches. 0:52:53.480 --> 0:52:56.600 It's not cheap, but it's doable. You don't have to 0:52:56.600 --> 0:52:59.960 stay at the lodge, you know, it's it's not it's 0:53:00.080 --> 0:53:04.399 way cheaper than Pinehurst than any of these other citadels 0:53:04.400 --> 0:53:08.439 that really exclude a big chunk of the population because 0:53:08.440 --> 0:53:13.520 they're just so pricey and Pasa Tempo is a dream, 0:53:13.800 --> 0:53:17.319 and so for us to be out there as these 0:53:17.520 --> 0:53:20.040 iconic greens are being rebuilt and we're we have the 0:53:20.080 --> 0:53:21.960 cameras rolling and we can bring the whole process to 0:53:22.000 --> 0:53:24.160 life like that's going to be so cool for people 0:53:24.160 --> 0:53:26.040 to get to watch all those. 0:53:26.440 --> 0:53:29.680 Had to happen. I mean those greens, you know, ninety 0:53:29.719 --> 0:53:36.319 years old, drainage issues, you know, pinnable locations, and it 0:53:36.440 --> 0:53:39.279 being as important as it is as you just described, 0:53:39.520 --> 0:53:45.799 Alistair McKenzie accessible the membership. What they did, and you know, 0:53:45.800 --> 0:53:48.120 we've been following along for well over a year, what 0:53:48.200 --> 0:53:54.000 they did for the greater good of their course, the 0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:58.040 future membership for anybody who's going to rock up and 0:53:58.440 --> 0:54:02.319 play that golf course ten years from now, thirty years 0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:05.000 from now, fifty years from now. I give him a 0:54:05.000 --> 0:54:09.000 lot of credit. That took guts and took a lot 0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:16.600 of cohesive conversation and collaboration communication. Justin mannon the superintendent, 0:54:16.680 --> 0:54:20.200 there was critical Scott Hoyt, the former GM, Steve Vargo's 0:54:20.200 --> 0:54:23.240 there now, the current GM ken Woods is the head pro. 0:54:23.960 --> 0:54:26.480 There's a lot of really smart people on their board, 0:54:26.560 --> 0:54:32.240 the decision makers, and Jim orbina Is talk about passion 0:54:33.000 --> 0:54:37.120 and an understanding of McKenzie and the drawings he has 0:54:37.160 --> 0:54:42.279 access to and what they're doing USGA, you know, greens 0:54:42.719 --> 0:54:48.280 from a drainage standpoint, they're able to follow the layering 0:54:48.520 --> 0:54:52.480 and the aging of the sand and dirt as they 0:54:52.480 --> 0:54:56.040 cut into that, into those those greens, and they're able 0:54:56.120 --> 0:55:02.920 to see the original undulation of those greens based on 0:55:02.920 --> 0:55:07.960 on the sort of the aging layers of the land 0:55:08.520 --> 0:55:12.759 of the sand, and they can still make, you know, 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:16.240 judgment calls, and they can still sort of compromise based 0:55:16.280 --> 0:55:19.840 on what they what they ultimately want to do. But 0:55:20.120 --> 0:55:24.239 this is going to be a fascinating reveal for architectural 0:55:24.280 --> 0:55:29.800 geeks or or agronomy geeks, for pasta tempa alistair McKinsey geeks, 0:55:29.840 --> 0:55:34.239 for golf geeks considering what that golf course is and 0:55:34.239 --> 0:55:36.520 what it means to golf in America. I put it 0:55:36.520 --> 0:55:39.000 in the conversation with the Pebbles and the Pinehurst number 0:55:39.000 --> 0:55:42.719 twos and in terms of accessible, but then also the 0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:46.040 pine Valleys and Chicago Golf Clubs and National Golf Links 0:55:46.080 --> 0:55:48.719 of America. This is this is one of the this 0:55:48.840 --> 0:55:50.920 is one of the ones that I think are way 0:55:51.040 --> 0:55:54.200 way underrated in terms of where it comes in on 0:55:54.239 --> 0:55:56.279 the rankings. I see some of the rankings and where 0:55:56.280 --> 0:55:58.719 positive tiempo is as it relates to some of the 0:55:58.760 --> 0:56:01.840 other Jabbroniville golf courses that are in the top one hundred, 0:56:02.120 --> 0:56:04.919 and I'm like, it's an embarrassment. It's an embarrassment. 0:56:04.920 --> 0:56:06.360 Gauzer rants or something. 0:56:06.600 --> 0:56:09.399 It's a bond, like it's like a joke. 0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:13.640 And yeah, I mean it's it's up there with Augusta 0:56:13.760 --> 0:56:18.240 National and Cyprus Point and Royal Melbourne. I mean, anyone 0:56:18.239 --> 0:56:21.680 can go play it, like I know, that's what's so amazing, 0:56:21.719 --> 0:56:25.839 and it's epic. Oh it is, it really is. 0:56:25.920 --> 0:56:29.919 And it's going to get even better because now Justin, 0:56:29.920 --> 0:56:32.239 who's an incredible superintendent, is going to be able to 0:56:32.280 --> 0:56:37.040 run them real fast on fair and pinnable locations. So 0:56:37.080 --> 0:56:38.640 it's going to get it's just going to get more 0:56:38.680 --> 0:56:41.360 interesting and more fair and more and more fun. But 0:56:41.480 --> 0:56:43.920 it's not necessarily going to get you know, get people like, 0:56:43.960 --> 0:56:45.600 oh it's going to be too easy. No it's not. 0:56:46.080 --> 0:56:48.160 Now they can put pin. Now they can tuck pins 0:56:48.320 --> 0:56:52.560 and have it actually be fair. So yeah, that's that's 0:56:52.640 --> 0:56:55.600 one of the things I'm most excited. I mean, every 0:56:55.640 --> 0:57:00.400 one of them is so different. It's development, restoration, rent, innovation. 0:57:01.360 --> 0:57:04.279 You know, it's a little bit of you know, it's municipal, 0:57:05.239 --> 0:57:09.800 it's community assets, it's you know, we're we're we're diving 0:57:09.880 --> 0:57:12.319 deep into all these different projects. And I don't think 0:57:12.320 --> 0:57:14.440 that this is going to end in twenty twenty three. 0:57:14.480 --> 0:57:15.960 I think this is going to be a big part 0:57:16.040 --> 0:57:18.960 of what we do as a company going forward, in additional, 0:57:19.160 --> 0:57:21.720 in addition to some of the other stuff. So yeah, 0:57:21.880 --> 0:57:25.440 it's this is a this is a good time to 0:57:25.480 --> 0:57:29.400 be doing what we're doing, storytelling around some very interesting 0:57:29.440 --> 0:57:32.240 and compelling stories. So thanks for all that you're doing 0:57:32.560 --> 0:57:36.080 keeping us updated on on this fight for the soul 0:57:36.120 --> 0:57:40.920 of the game. And and meanwhile it's fun to collaborate 0:57:40.960 --> 0:57:42.360 on some of this other stuff as well. 0:57:42.960 --> 0:57:46.840 Yeah. Absolutely, I've seen some of the rough cuts on 0:57:46.880 --> 0:57:48.960 these things. People are going to love it. Like the 0:57:48.960 --> 0:57:52.360 Ireland stuff is so rich. And you know, you've been 0:57:52.960 --> 0:57:56.320 been on the travel beat for thirty years basically, and 0:57:57.960 --> 0:58:00.840 there's a lot of people do in travel, but you 0:58:01.280 --> 0:58:03.800 were there first, and you have this this depth of 0:58:03.880 --> 0:58:08.880 knowledge and uh, these relationships and I mean you're practically 0:58:08.920 --> 0:58:12.920 an honorary Irishman at this point, So oh, Janella, like, 0:58:12.960 --> 0:58:14.360 we're gonna I're gonna have to rename it. 0:58:15.360 --> 0:58:18.400 Yeah, well that's part of the Dublin thing. I go 0:58:18.520 --> 0:58:22.040 find my family heritage. And would you believe that my 0:58:22.280 --> 0:58:27.440 great great grandfather, Michael Boland farmed, rented, and then bought 0:58:27.760 --> 0:58:33.080 and farmed eighteen acres of land within a stone's throw 0:58:33.440 --> 0:58:38.920 of Doonebeg golf course. So fucking Donald Trump was my neighbor. 0:58:40.080 --> 0:58:42.360 Got eighteen acres. We could have put an incredible little 0:58:42.400 --> 0:58:44.000 part three course in the dude. 0:58:44.200 --> 0:58:47.760 I'm gonna do it. We're gonna held out my grandma. 0:58:47.800 --> 0:58:50.000 Apparently my grandma tried to buy it and she wasn't 0:58:50.000 --> 0:58:52.160 a citizen at the time, so she she couldn't get it. 0:58:52.200 --> 0:58:54.880 But bringing my family back in a couple of weeks 0:58:54.920 --> 0:58:55.960 and we're going to go find it. 0:58:56.880 --> 0:58:58.960 I love it. Well, that's great, al right, So I 0:58:59.000 --> 0:59:01.920 just a little teacher too. Lots of stuff happening here 0:59:01.960 --> 0:59:03.920 at the fire pit. Thanks for making to the end 0:59:03.960 --> 0:59:06.120 of this podcast. We appreciate all you listeners. We will 0:59:06.200 --> 0:59:10.800 keep coming at you. I'm gonna I had to get 0:59:10.800 --> 0:59:12.160 the book done. I'm gonna get back to writing my 0:59:12.200 --> 0:59:14.640 weekly asked Allen columns, so we can look for those, 0:59:14.760 --> 0:59:17.080 and lots of lots of fun stuff percolating here. So 0:59:18.040 --> 0:59:20.720 for Matt Janella, this is Alan Schipnuk. That was another 0:59:20.760 --> 0:59:27.800 Fire Drill podcast. Thanks for listening, and this is the end. Goodbye. 0:59:28.400 --> 0:59:29.760 I'm bed big again. 0:59:29.840 --> 0:59:34.040 I played the wind, made a fortune when my ship 0:59:34.200 --> 0:59:38.040 came and I ran the table and never thought I 0:59:38.080 --> 0:59:41.240 could fall down the wind and time hit me. Lack 0:59:41.280 --> 0:59:46.880 of cannon the ball, and now I can't I shake this, 0:59:47.200 --> 0:59:48.440 losing the stream. 0:59:48.960 --> 0:59:52.000 Every road I take is a dead end street. 0:59:54.120 --> 0:59:56.080 I got thoughts in my head. 0:59:56.600 --> 1:00:00.200 I can't give them joy and not the thing what 1:00:00.320 --> 1:00:03.600 I'm thinking about. I kind of thoughts in my head. 1:00:04.120 --> 1:00:07.760 I can't get them out. Trying not to think what 1:00:07.920 --> 1:00:09.120 I'm thinking about.