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Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: My sense has always been that the yasser are going

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Speaker 2: to decide this, you know, not Jay Monahan, not Roy McElroy,

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Speaker 2: not this new fangled board of directors. It's he's got

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Speaker 2: the money, he's got the juice, and it is it

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Speaker 2: has been his creation that he's nurtured, and he's very

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Speaker 2: close to some of the key live players and they

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Speaker 2: bought into his vision.

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Speaker 1: I got daughts in my head.

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Speaker 3: Can't get him joh not the thing what I'm thinking about.

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Speaker 3: Can't get him out, jo Not the thing what I'm

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Speaker 3: thinking about.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the fire Drill Podcast. This is

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Speaker 2: Alan Shipnak joined by Matt Janella. We want to talk

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Speaker 2: about the state of the game, the state of the

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Speaker 2: fire Pit, some of the things are working on, and

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Speaker 2: just kind of do a little catchup. Maddie Thing, thanks

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Speaker 2: for jumping on here.

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Speaker 4: Well, I got to go to the horse's mouth. I

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Speaker 4: want to get the I want to get. I wanted

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Speaker 4: to get the scoop and who better than you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, We'll dive into live golf and all the

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Speaker 2: latest developments. It's like every day it never ends. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be literally they'll be printing my book I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be at the pretty facility, like handwriting notes

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Speaker 2: in the margin because things just keep happening. But before

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Speaker 2: we get going, let's let's thank our sponsors, Dormy Workshop.

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Speaker 2: Anything you want to say about our friends over at Dormy, Matt.

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Speaker 4: No, I mean, it's just that they are an incredible

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Speaker 4: golf family business based in Halifax, Nova Scotia, where all

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Speaker 4: they make is quality leather head covers and accessories. I

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Speaker 4: met these guys, the Bishop Brothers, at the PGA Merchandise

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Speaker 4: Show almost ten years ago, and when I used to

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Speaker 4: run around the morning drive looking for things to promote

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Speaker 4: for buddies trips or gifts or things gadgets, I couldn't

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Speaker 4: help but always go to the Dormy Workshop stand and

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Speaker 4: grab some of their stuff that they that they'd made.

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Speaker 4: It's just incredible. I just don't think there's anybody else

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Speaker 4: in the industry doing it quite like they do it

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Speaker 4: and personalize certain personalizing certain things and creating certain things

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Speaker 4: that every time they post something, you're like, that's amazing.

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Speaker 4: They got some sort of baseball glove headcover now that

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Speaker 4: looked like you can personalize, and they've done some great

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Speaker 4: stuff for us. So go to Firepit Collective dot com

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Speaker 4: and get some of their fire pit headcovers and stash bags.

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Speaker 4: Or go to Dormy Workshop dot com and use promo

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Speaker 4: code fire Pit fifteen for fifteen percent off some of

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Speaker 4: the stuff that they have on their website. I really

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Speaker 4: appreciate their support.

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Speaker 2: Same. So the latest twist and turns, you know, Jaymonahan,

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Speaker 2: his excellency Yasser Aldermayan, and Greg normanans some into Capitol

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Speaker 2: Hill to testify about what's really happened with behind the

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Speaker 2: scenes getting some of the anti trust issues that set

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Speaker 2: for July eleven. As part of that, they had to

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Speaker 2: turn over the five page framework Agreement, which was the

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Speaker 2: signed document that led to this earthquake. And they they

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Speaker 2: talked around it and and and Jimmy Dunn as well

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Speaker 2: had pulled out some of the language and their press appearances,

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Speaker 2: but no one had seen the document. And then by

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Speaker 2: turning it over to the it's good to know how

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Speaker 2: how how quickly the US government people are to leak documents.

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Speaker 2: It was like it dropped in Washington, c within minutes.

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Speaker 2: Everybody had it. But we thanked them for their service.

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Speaker 2: There weren't any bombshells, really, you know, I think that

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Speaker 2: that that Jay and Jimmy and others have been pretty

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Speaker 2: good at summarizing the contents of this agreement. But there

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Speaker 2: were definitely some nuggets. I mean, one that that jumps

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Speaker 2: out right away was the line in there that that

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Speaker 2: the PGA Tour and the dp World Tour are going to, uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, try their best to get world ranking points

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Speaker 2: for live golf. And it's interesting because they were fighting

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Speaker 2: hard to prevent that. But you know, obviously the landscape

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Speaker 2: has changed. It's obviously a win for live. That's one

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Speaker 2: of the things that's sort of legitimized. The entire thing

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Speaker 2: is and it's been this background battle. The larger question,

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Speaker 2: you know, what's gonna happen to live golf? I mean

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Speaker 2: that there's really three or four big questions. What in

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Speaker 2: this new merger. What's gonna happen to live golf? How

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Speaker 2: are they going to make hole the players who stayed

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Speaker 2: loyal to the PGA Tour, whether there's live or not.

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Speaker 2: How are players gonna be re into you know, how

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Speaker 2: are the live guys going to be reintegrated into the

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Speaker 2: larger landscape. Those are the biggies, And there wasn't a

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Speaker 2: lot of clarity in that document. But uh, it was

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Speaker 2: it was certainly interesting to see. And I will say

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Speaker 2: Keith Pelly signature is off the charts, like I mean

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Speaker 2: if people make fun of my signature when I'm siding

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Speaker 2: books at SFO. But it was ornate and funny.

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Speaker 4: But you don't wear those kinds of you don't wear

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Speaker 4: those kinds of glasses and that variety of color and

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Speaker 4: have kind of a bland you know, autograph. It just

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Speaker 4: it's just not part of the deal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good call. It's all it all work.

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Speaker 2: It's it's the totality of Keith Helly. But your sense has.

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Speaker 4: Always been that live lives though. Your sense is that

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Speaker 4: why would they scrap it? This was this was Yasir's

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Speaker 4: baby and it made it or it made or makes

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Speaker 4: no sense to you that they would just completely scrap it,

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Speaker 4: And especially if there's going to be some sort of

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Speaker 4: process and sort of the players not don't automatically get

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Speaker 4: back in right like and they've got contract, Like, I

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Speaker 4: don't see how how there's a situation where it just

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Speaker 4: goes away.

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Speaker 2: My sense has always been that that Yaser are going

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Speaker 2: to decide this, you know, not jay Monhan not Roy McElroy,

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Speaker 2: not this new fangled board of directors. It's he's got

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Speaker 2: the money, he's got the juice, and it is it

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Speaker 2: has been his creation that he's nurtured. And he's very

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Speaker 2: close to some of the key live players and they

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Speaker 2: bought into his vision, right. They're the ones who took

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Speaker 2: the leap of faith and that meant so much to

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Speaker 2: him personally and to the you know, this the whole

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Speaker 2: idea of the cloud. He's getting into professional golf and

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Speaker 2: and then those pioneers essentially brought us to this moment,

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Speaker 2: and so there is a loyalty there, and there's there's

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Speaker 2: a sense of ownership and but at the same time,

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's a ruthless businessman, and so I think

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Speaker 2: I think they're going to take a hard look at it.

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Speaker 2: It's clear that this is this process is going to

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Speaker 2: be ornate, and the idea that it's going to get

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Speaker 2: wrapped up here in the coming months is pretty fanciful.

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Speaker 2: The framework agreement expires on December thirty first this year. However,

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Speaker 2: there is language that they can they can extend that

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Speaker 2: and that seems likely, even though it throws into uncertainty

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Speaker 2: so much. You know, there was a board meeting today

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Speaker 2: that this is Tuesday, and you know that the tours

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Speaker 2: in Detroit at Rocket Mortgage and there was a Player

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Speaker 2: only meeting and then the board met and put out

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Speaker 2: a statement basically saying that we're committed to working on

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Speaker 2: this process. But some of the language in there was interesting.

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Speaker 2: It was kind of like, if we can finalize the agreement,

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Speaker 2: not when you know there's been a lot of pushback

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Speaker 2: internally from the Player directors, especially Patrick Cantley is an

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Speaker 2: interesting person in all of this. He's been he's been.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, what did you say, Patrick Kantley has been

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Speaker 4: an interesting Person's amazing.

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Speaker 2: I know, breaking news. Yeah, the word interesting is rarely

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Speaker 2: applied to the guy, but he is. He is smart,

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Speaker 2: and he is strident, and someone who's dealt with him

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Speaker 2: on governance issues describing to me as a terrific penis

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Speaker 2: I said, I didn't quite get it. It's like he's

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Speaker 2: a big dick, like he's just hard to deal with

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Speaker 2: and he's all along, has just been pushing for the

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Speaker 2: interests of the Delaware twenty three, you know, just the

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Speaker 2: top guys who've been sort of setting this policy. And

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Speaker 2: he really doesn't care about the journeyman. He doesn't care

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Speaker 2: about the opposite field events. He's kind of gone all

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Speaker 2: in on this tour within a tour, which is fine,

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Speaker 2: but it's created a lot of hard feelings because that's

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Speaker 2: the majority of the players out there. And so now

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Speaker 2: he's pushing back on this framework agreement and a lot

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Speaker 2: of details and you know it, whatever gets agreed upon

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Speaker 2: between Yasser, Jimmy Dunn, jay Monhan or his replacement, because

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Speaker 2: that remains an unknown, it's still going to have to

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Speaker 2: be approved by the PGA Tour Board. And the players

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Speaker 2: now have five votes. Rory's one of them. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he's obviously he was thrown to the wolves here. He

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Speaker 2: could be persuaded maybe to go against the tide. And

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Speaker 2: then Peter Malnaughty, who was elected, you know, sort of

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Speaker 2: a journeyman to represent the little guy. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: easy to imagine him siding with Can't Lay and these things.

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Speaker 2: So right, there's three votes, and it gets interesting because

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Speaker 2: this people talk about this like it's a done deal,

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Speaker 2: but it's not. And that's becoming more and more clear.

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Speaker 2: And there's gonna be there's gonna be a lot of

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Speaker 2: give and take, and there's gonna be a lot of wrangling,

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Speaker 2: and this process is not done. It's just beginning.

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Speaker 4: I mean so, uh, this to me has always felt

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Speaker 4: like the sum total of Live was doing what it

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Speaker 4: was doing. The tour had reacted the way it reacted.

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Speaker 4: They were the sponsors. We knew enough. You've known way

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Speaker 4: more than me, but we've talked to a lot of

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Speaker 4: tournament sponsors. We know tournament sponsors were not happy. They

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Speaker 4: were lined up and talking about their future to say,

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Speaker 4: we have a watered down product. You're asking us for

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Speaker 4: more money. Uh, this this makes no sense. That doesn't

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Speaker 4: pencil out. You're talking at us, not with us. We

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Speaker 4: keep getting surprised by this news and everything that goes

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Speaker 4: along with it. You're trying to control what it is

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Speaker 4: that you know, our our sometimes decades long commitment to

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Speaker 4: this tour product, and you're treating us like this. You know,

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Speaker 4: we we knew the Jim Cranes were very verbal and

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Speaker 4: vocal right from the from the outset, and we're and

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Speaker 4: we're you know, using leverage, and he was one of

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Speaker 4: the guys who could have afforded. So you know that

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Speaker 4: there was a lot of places that were so we

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Speaker 4: knew the tour was was against the ropes, non sustainable

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Speaker 4: water down product, asking for more money. You know, something

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Speaker 4: had to give. So this this, this seemed to me

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Speaker 4: like Done and Hurley he got in this room and

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Speaker 4: said for the better of Like we'll deal with the

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Speaker 4: players later. They're going to eventually understand that without this whatever,

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Speaker 4: you know, let's not call it a merger, but without

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Speaker 4: this agreement, without this partnership, without piff money, and without

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Speaker 4: trying to find a way of union, you know, unifying

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Speaker 4: this world of professional here when they talk about golf,

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Speaker 4: this is good for golf, this is this is professional golf.

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Speaker 4: This is this is like just professional golf. The difference

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Speaker 4: between NFL and baseball and when no one's running around

200
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Speaker 4: playing those sports, you know, for a lifetime you know activity, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: like we do with golf, like golf. Like that's why

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Speaker 4: I was trying to say in the last podcast. Is

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Speaker 4: golf for me is what we play? Professional golf is

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Speaker 4: this cash grab great, go get it, and the big

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Speaker 4: trophies during the majors mean a little something more and

206
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Speaker 4: you're going down in the history books and that's how

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Speaker 4: you'll be judging from a legacy standpoint. But Done and

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Speaker 4: Hurley he basically I think now and Monhann are left

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Speaker 4: explaining to players like Can'tley or others, Hey, guys, you

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Speaker 4: can either get on board with this, or you can

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Speaker 4: get on board with something that is going to be

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Speaker 4: like a shell of what you've been used to or

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Speaker 4: what you think is happening for the future of the

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Speaker 4: PGA Tour. There's no more Tiger fills it, you know,

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Speaker 4: now creeping into his mid fifties, like we got to

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Speaker 4: get on, getting on, or this is going to come

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Speaker 4: to a crashing halt.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know there's a third written true, but there's

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Speaker 2: a third rail here where now that the tour has

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Speaker 2: introduced this idea of becoming a for profit entity, if

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Speaker 2: they can't come to terms with the piff the Saudis,

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Speaker 2: they could go to other private equity folks. And there's

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Speaker 2: there's plenty of been sniffing around. I mean, Rain Capital

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Speaker 2: was involved with the Premier Golf League and they're they're

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Speaker 2: still involved. I mean the guy who runs rain Capital,

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Speaker 2: essentially Colin Neville. He was in the room in Delaware.

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Speaker 2: He's been an advisor to Rory and Tiger, and he

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Speaker 2: could probably raise a billion dollars with a few phone

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Speaker 2: calls now.

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Speaker 4: So they can still go for for profit without having

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Speaker 4: this part this this this deal get.

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Speaker 2: Done, yeah, because that's in the language like if basically

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Speaker 2: it's one of the clauses that was in this this

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Speaker 2: framework agreement. We're going to try our best and good

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Speaker 2: faith to make this work, and if not, we'll shake

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Speaker 2: hands and go our separate ways and can continue doing

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Speaker 2: our own thing. And so you know everyone's talked about

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Speaker 2: well this this was a trojan horse by the Saudis

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Speaker 2: start live force the tour to capitulate take over the tour.

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Speaker 2: Well you could look at the other way around. This

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Speaker 2: is a trojan horse by the tour to become for profit,

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Speaker 2: to introduce this idea of reshaping the business. They can

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Speaker 2: now discard the Saudis trying to reclaim the moral high ground,

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Speaker 2: and the players will go along with anything at this

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Speaker 2: point because they understand the extential crisis to their business.

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Speaker 2: And you can bring in a blackwater. I mean, there's

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Speaker 2: there's a million hedge funds and private equity places out

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Speaker 2: there that would would pour money into it. So this

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Speaker 2: it's a little fragile right now. And you know clearly

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Speaker 2: that the piff has more money than anybody else but

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Speaker 2: they don't have all the money. There's other places, and

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Speaker 2: so that that becomes a whole interesting subtext to this.

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Speaker 2: Now it just to continue the thought exercise. If that

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Speaker 2: were to happen, it's still a win for the tour.

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Speaker 2: And that they've ended the litigation and that was dismissed

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Speaker 2: without prejudice, meaning you can never refile it like it's

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Speaker 2: done forever. All the both.

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Speaker 4: Sides wanted that, right, That was the other thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: ten poles, none of those top guys wanted their phones confiscated,

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Speaker 4: emails revealed, none of that, like all those they all

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Speaker 4: and the Saudis wanted. Everybody wanted to keep their own ship,

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Speaker 4: their own ship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, the ending the litigation does not

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Speaker 2: end the Department of Justice anti trust investigation. So it

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Speaker 2: definitely turns the volume down on all the legal wrangling.

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Speaker 2: But the Department of Justice is still sniffing around. And

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Speaker 2: you know, Monahan's comment that we did this to take

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Speaker 2: a competitor off the board was a huge blunder because

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Speaker 2: that just gives more scrutiny to this. This notion that

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Speaker 2: this merger, which is not really a merger, but that's

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Speaker 2: become a common usage, was designed to, you know, to

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Speaker 2: to thwart the competition between these two entities, and that

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Speaker 2: that is classic anti trust. So and that's why these

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Speaker 2: guys are getting haled in front of in front of

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Speaker 2: you know, senators because this is this is an ongoing issue.

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Speaker 2: It does taking away the lawsuit and the kind of

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Speaker 2: lawsuit does help, But the Department of Justice, they're the

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Speaker 2: ones who are snatching the phone. It's not the lawyers

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Speaker 2: for each side, they don't have that authority, but the

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Speaker 2: Department Justice does. So that's that's an ongoing background. So

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Speaker 2: for this framework agreement to become final, they have to

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Speaker 2: convince the board, they have to get the players behind it,

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Speaker 2: and they have to survive an anti trust investigation. So

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Speaker 2: it's it's tenuous, but.

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Speaker 4: There's also a fract. There's also a there's also a

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Speaker 4: splinter between the It's not just the players on board,

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Speaker 4: right there is there is this whole group of players

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Speaker 4: who are represented by a whole group of agents who

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Speaker 4: are like, where do we fit into all of this? Right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean that the agents in the in the

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Speaker 2: age of Live had more power they've ever had before

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Speaker 2: because they were the conduits for all this deal making.

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Speaker 2: And you know, this guy, Magined al Soror, who was

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Speaker 2: running live day to day for its first year plus.

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Speaker 2: He was a great relationship builder with the agents, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of them call them like my guy. You know,

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Speaker 2: Imagined was my guy. He's gone now. But the agents,

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Speaker 2: it was it was like Christmas every day for them.

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Speaker 2: You know, they these once in a lifetime windfalls. Because

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Speaker 2: it's so funny how this is so subtle. But the

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Speaker 2: relationship between agents and players varies. But generally they get

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Speaker 2: twenty percent of endorsement money, but they don't get anything

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Speaker 2: that's on the golf course. Now, what is the live contract.

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Speaker 2: It falls into this gray area. It's not a classic endorsement.

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Speaker 2: It's like an appearance feed, but not exactly. It's it's

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Speaker 2: not winnings per se. And so the players and the

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Speaker 2: agents had to negotiate this individually, how they were going

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Speaker 2: to handle these big signing bonuses. And generally they most

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Speaker 2: didn't pay twenty percent, some paid as little as ten,

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Speaker 2: some paid fifteen. But these were you know, fifteen percent.

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Speaker 2: One hundred million dollars is a heck of a lot

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Speaker 2: of money for these agents, and so.

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Speaker 4: Instead of negotiating for their clients, the negotiating with their clients.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a fascinating subtext. I get into all

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Speaker 2: the stuff in the book. And so yeah, if this,

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Speaker 2: and this is another thing that was in the framework

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Speaker 2: agreement is that they agreed that players cannot switch to

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Speaker 2: while this is being negotiated. So there's the idea of

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Speaker 2: Live recruiting other players is on hold until this shakes out. Now.

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Speaker 2: If so, just to extend this thought exercise, what happens

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Speaker 2: if this whole thing blows up, Well, then Live is

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Speaker 2: back in business. The tour has forfeited the moral argument.

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Speaker 2: They've they've given the stamp of approval to the Saudi money.

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Speaker 2: Then therefore there's no reason for anyone to stay on

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Speaker 2: the PGA tour. So so the tour is like fighting

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Speaker 2: for its life here. They've got to consummate this agreement.

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Speaker 2: But there's these powerful forces that are making it complex.

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Speaker 2: So it's gonna be interesting to see how this all

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Speaker 2: plays out. And to your question of like fifteen minutes ago,

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Speaker 2: I never fully answered what happens to Live. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's increasingly clear they're going to play a live schedule

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four because this is not going to

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Speaker 2: be resolved, there's contracts in plays, the schedules finalized, So

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Speaker 2: I think Live is safe for twenty four and then

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Speaker 2: then it's going to be a fundamental question. And you know,

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Speaker 2: for for Yasir, it's still his baby and he has

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Speaker 2: absolute power. Right, So, like people weren't tuned into this,

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Speaker 2: but the season finale U for this year and Live

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Speaker 2: Golf was supposed to be in Miami, it got it

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Speaker 2: got moved to Jetta, Saudi Arabia. No one in Live

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Speaker 2: wanted it to go to Jedda. So now their biggest,

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Speaker 2: most important event is played in the middle of the

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Speaker 2: night with no fans and in a you know, versus Miami,

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Speaker 2: which is a fun party town. It's be in prime

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Speaker 2: time whatever. But Yaser wanted it so that therefore it's done,

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Speaker 2: and so if he keeps Live going, he can reshape

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Speaker 2: it along those lines. He can do whatever he wants.

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Speaker 2: Whereas if you if they fold up Live and he

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Speaker 2: just becomes an investor in the tour, he has tons

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Speaker 2: of say. But the status quo is powerful, Like, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe they could get one tour event in Saudi Arabia,

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Speaker 2: but that's far from a sure thing. And so there's

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Speaker 2: various reasons to keep LIV going. Also to circumvent the

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Speaker 2: antitrust say, okay, we'll just keep it as its separate

355
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Speaker 2: thing where we're not anti competitive. We didn't we didn't

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Speaker 2: shut it down. There's that, and then there's just this

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Speaker 2: notion like why did they even get why do they

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Speaker 2: even launch Live? I mean, clearly they wanted to become

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Speaker 2: part of the Western world. They wanted to be accepting

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Speaker 2: the golf world. But you know, one of the pillars

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Speaker 2: of this vision twenty thirty, which is the you know,

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Speaker 2: MBS has staked his whole rain on this idea is

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Speaker 2: to increase tourism, and you know Live has a lot

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Speaker 2: of potential there, Like they could add a second event

365
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Speaker 2: in a different part of Saudi Arabia. You know, they

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Speaker 2: could leverage the star power of their players, and you

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Speaker 2: could have a Phil Micholson golf course or a brooks

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Speaker 2: Kepka golf course or whatever. And so there's various reasons

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Speaker 2: to keep it going.

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Speaker 4: Now that cam Smith golf course would be cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it would just be like Pineer's number two all

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Speaker 2: domed greens, shit down.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to play a cam Smith golf course.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be a short game for days. It's kind

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Speaker 2: of like what's fill did at Whisper Rock, you know.

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Speaker 2: But so yeah, it's it's a very interesting question what's

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Speaker 2: going to happen to live golf, And there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of there's a lot of reasons to keep it going.

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Speaker 2: There's reasons not to. Partly it's not making money. In fact,

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Speaker 2: it's losing money. And also it would create this continued

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Speaker 2: schism in the game. Even if even if the live

382
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Speaker 2: guys can flow back and forth to the and make

383
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 2: some cameos on the PGA tour, it's complex as long

384
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Speaker 2: as it's in existence. So that's a foundational question.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but to your point, now, it seems even if

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Speaker 4: this doesn't go through, doesn't happen, there is some on course,

387
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 4: some some live activation momentum as they're realizing if we

388
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Speaker 4: go to places where the tour doesn't go, we have

389
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Speaker 4: we have an audience on site. It's going to feel

390
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 4: bigger than it's it's been feeling bigger than the US Open, oh,

391
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 4: by the way, which is a whole other conversation. But

392
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Speaker 4: then also you have you have it should got to

393
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Speaker 4: be easier to get you know, some sort of distribution

394
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 4: deals done by virtue of they're no longer apparently according

395
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 4: to the tour, they're no longer the enemy. In this wording,

396
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Speaker 4: the verbage that jumped out to me is they go

397
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 4: from essentially enemy number one to premier corporate Piff being

398
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Speaker 4: the premier corporate sponsor. The premier corporate sponsor goes from

399
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Speaker 4: zero to hero.

400
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, So distribution.

401
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 4: Could get easier. They're learning from their mistakes. They still

402
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 4: have they still have the players that are that are interesting,

403
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Speaker 4: that's been you know, you know, Brooks, cam Phil finishing second,

404
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 4: the Masters, these guys are these guys are playing golf. Yeah.

405
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 2: I mean if to me, if I'm yeah, yeah, and

406
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 2: you get world ranking points, it would clearly be easier

407
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: to recruit in the future. I mean, if I'm auser,

408
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 2: why not why not have the best of both worlds.

409
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Speaker 2: You have you keep you keep liv going and you

410
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Speaker 2: do whatever you want with it, and then you have

411
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Speaker 2: you have you have Piff running the PGA Tour on

412
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 2: some level like you could have. He could have both.

413
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 2: I mean, all it takes is money. And if it's

414
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 2: always been their strategy to get the investment back from

415
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Speaker 2: Live to try and sell these franchises and so they've

416
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Speaker 2: never really even gone to market with that. Who knows

417
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 2: what the market would support. I mean, it's an interesting

418
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 2: thought exercise. Now as as as you say, they've they've

419
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 2: been welcomed into the larger ecosystem. So it's it's gonna

420
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Speaker 2: be fascinating to see how this plays out. And on hand,

421
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Speaker 2: you know, what if if Jay walks away and well,

422
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 2: you know, the the Senate testimony is gonna be very

423
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Speaker 2: interesting because if he doesn't show up for that, then

424
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 2: it's pretty clear either his health problems are more serious

425
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: than they've led on or he's he's he's stepping away.

426
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Speaker 2: And if he does show up, it's gonna be a

427
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 2: big deal. It's probably gonna be his first public appearance

428
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 2: and there'll be a lot of energy around that. So,

429
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 2: you know, where does Monaghan fit into this? There's no

430
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 2: clear successor, Like you know, Tim Fincham made it very

431
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 2: obvious that Jay Monahan was going to succeed him. Because

432
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: Monahan's so much younger and he's only been on the

433
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: job for five years, there hasn't been an obvious candidate

434
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 2: to replace him yet, and so that would touch off

435
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 2: a whole other thing because it's already a big job.

436
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 2: Now it could be monumental.

437
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 4: So why I saw Jimmy Dunn at Augusta National a

438
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 4: few weeks before the Masters with Rory McElroy and Shane Lowry,

439
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 4: they and Tom Brady. It seemed to me that they're

440
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 4: very close, Rory being Rory, Jimmy Dunn being Jimmy Dunn.

441
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 4: I mean Jimmy Dunn is that they would the PGA

442
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 4: Tour would be in a good place if Jimmy Dunn

443
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 4: stayed at the wheel from a from a business standpoint

444
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 4: and from a from a diplomatic standpoint, just in the

445
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 4: Pulley has with play with key players.

446
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's an interesting idea. I'm not sure

447
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 2: he'd want it because being the commissioner is a grind.

448
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 2: I mean, you're going to thirty plus events a year,

449
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 2: every player on tours in your in your ear, bitching

450
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: about X, Y and Z. You've got to glad hand

451
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 2: all the sponsors. You've got to. It's you're negotiating tons

452
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 2: of contracts. You've got to. There's a corporate side, there's

453
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 2: a TV side, there's pick a pick a commissioner.

454
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 4: If you if you could wave a wand right now,

455
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 4: based on all that you know and everything you've seen

456
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 4: and heard, who's the best commissioner to replace ja Jamon

457
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 4: And if that, if that were to come about.

458
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: Mm I would say Joe Ogilvie, you know, former tour player,

459
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 2: now in the finance world, incredibly smart, knows the business.

460
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 2: How's the respect of the players?

461
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 4: You know, like twenty five years.

462
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: I mean, it was always kind of a joke just

463
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: because he was he was so clever and so well spoken.

464
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 2: But now he's had success in the business world and

465
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 2: he's become kind of this oracle. Uh, you know when

466
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 2: he talked about these things, people pay attention. One of

467
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: the reason that Dean Bemon had such a long run

468
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 2: was because he was a player, and he was a

469
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 2: pretty successful player and he and it's one of the

470
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 2: reasons why the guys on LIV love Greg Norman because

471
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 2: he just has a player's perspective. You know, Finchham didn't

472
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 2: have that, Monahan doesn't have that. So I think at

473
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: this very fraught year, to have a former player would

474
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: would be huge. I mean, we joke about Jeff. I

475
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: know I was gonna say, we joke about Jeff all

476
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: the time because he has such a great mind. I

477
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 2: know for a fact he doesn't want the job because

478
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: it's so thankless, even though it's a nice paycheck. Got

479
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 2: But yeah, So, I mean, the think about Jimmy Dunn,

480
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: Like that Golf Channel interview he gave or he said

481
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 2: he would you know, he would kill the terrorists himself,

482
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 2: Like that was a major red flag. Of all the

483
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: out of pocket things that have been said during this

484
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,479
Speaker 2: whole controversy, that was one of the wildest. And you know,

485
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 2: you need a certain disposition and a certain diplomacy to

486
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 2: be the commissioner, especially in this fraught moment. And there's

487
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: no doubt that Jimmy Dunn is great at building relationships

488
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: in various grill rooms of fancy golf clubs, and people

489
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 2: love his company. But you know, that was sort of

490
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: his national debut in the media spotlight, and that was

491
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: like wow, I can't believe he just said wow. So

492
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 2: I liked it.

493
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 4: I mean, I liked I liked the fire. But I

494
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 4: get your point, He's probably not the best to be like.

495
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 4: I was like, Okay, I love I mean, I've I've

496
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 4: had a couple of really cool experiences with Jimmy Dunn.

497
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 4: I would I would follow him, you know, anywhere he went.

498
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 4: But that was that was that was that was abrupt

499
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 4: and abrasive to be said on Golf Channel.

500
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: Yeah all of all. So who knows like that would

501
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 2: be a big job.

502
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 4: Greg Norman, in your mind, stays or goes regardless. I mean,

503
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 4: what's the what is his status?

504
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 2: I think he'll fight hard to stay on through twenty

505
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 2: four and have pretend he has the role and to

506
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: to look like he has the place in this new

507
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: world order. And but clearly he's been an impediment if

508
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: we're trying to put the game back together. None of

509
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 2: the tour players want him around. No one in pont

510
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: of Euder Beach wants him. I think, you know, Greg's

511
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: almost seventy. I think you know, I was told by

512
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 2: people Live he has a huge gold in parachute. I

513
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 2: think he stays on as long as he feels like

514
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: he can declare victory and then just just sort of

515
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: right off into the sunset. He's so polarizing and so divisive,

516
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: I can't imagine he would last longer than that. Assuming

517
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 2: that this gets consummated and this new code does be

518
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 2: come a thing, if it all blows up and Live

519
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 2: just stays independent, then maybe you know he'll last longer.

520
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 2: But if you're trying to to reimagine professional golf, I

521
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 2: don't see a place for him.

522
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, Tiger would like, what what what? Obviously you've heard nothing,

523
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 4: because otherwise everyone would have heard something. But what is

524
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 4: where is Tiger?

525
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: I mean, what I have heard about Tiger is that

526
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: he wasn't stoked, but he also understands. I mean, Tiger's

527
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: Tiger's a very black and white personality, right.

528
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: And.

529
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: He doesn't get caught up in the nuance like he

530
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: That's just how he's always kind of done things. And

531
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: when he ends in a relationship, it's over and it's

532
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: cold blooded.

533
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 4: He locks the door.

534
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, we're gonna drive you to the airport on vacation,

535
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: and we're gonna change a lot from while you're gone

536
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: like that. So I think Tiger's already moved on. Like Okay,

537
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: I said, if I wanted to say, I took a

538
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: stand the other side. The other side prevailed tentatively, and

539
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: let's go. I mean, how he's already thinking of, you know,

540
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: ways he can leverage this. I'm sure he's looking at

541
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: golf course design projects somewhere in the Persian golf as

542
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 2: we speak, you know, at least on Google Maps whatever.

543
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: Like Tiger's a pretty rapacious businessman. And now now he

544
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 2: just got the okay to do business in Saudi Arabia.

545
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: So you know, his his arguments were always about the

546
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: competitive nature of live golf, I mean everything he said.

547
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: He never made the moral argument. He always said, I

548
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: don't like it because they haven't earned it. And the

549
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: players who are going over there, what's the incentive to practice?

550
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: Where the guaranteed money? All this and that you know,

551
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 2: Tigers saw it through the competitive lens, and so I

552
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 2: don't think he's.

553
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 4: The other from a legacy lens too. Like we talked

554
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 4: about eighty two and fifteen. You know, if there's some

555
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 4: sort of like breakaway tour and everything goes that direction,

556
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 4: then and eighty two PGA Tour wins and fifteen majors,

557
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 4: fifteen majors, you know, can stand stand the test of time.

558
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 4: But eighty two PGA tour wins is something that think

559
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 4: about what that took to get to that number. That's

560
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 4: a number worth worth protecting and standing by. If I

561
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 4: would never know, but eighty two wins is eighty two wins.

562
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: I totally agree. I mean Tiger was trying to preserve

563
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: the legacy the PGA Tour. That's always been his platform.

564
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: That's where and if the tour is devalued, then on

565
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: some level people could possibly devalue his accountment. It's hard

566
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: to imagine. You know, what he did, it will always

567
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: stand the test of time, but you don't want the

568
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: tour diminished, and you know, potentially this strengthens the tour.

569
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: I mean I said this previously, like that, if you take,

570
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: if you set aside the moral argument, which is complex,

571
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: but if you can, if you can eliminate that, this

572
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: could be a huge win for the PGA Tour. You

573
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 2: they still control the day to day bureaucracy, have access

574
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: unlimited money. They can craft a global schedule that incorporates

575
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: the best European tour events, and they can they can

576
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: get back players that matter. Cam Smith matters Brooks Kopka

577
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 2: very much, matters Dustin Still. Could you know name a

578
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: few others, Patrick reied, I mean, Bryson's played great in

579
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: the majors like that. It doesn't serve the tour's interest

580
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 2: not to have access to those players. So I think

581
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: Tiger sees that Okay, we're this is going to strengthen

582
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 2: the tour if it goes through. And even if even

583
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 2: if the fift deal falls apart, they're gonna They're gonna

584
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: wind up with private equity money and the tour can

585
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: can can retrench. So I think I think Tiger he

586
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: never wants to be on the outside looking in. That's

587
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: not a it's not his normal position. But he's a

588
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: he's a bottom line guy. And I think he recognizes

589
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: that the tour had to do something in here.

590
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 4: And and let's not kid ourselves. And Mark Steinberg is

591
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 4: a huge player in the in the game of professional golf,

592
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 4: given his relationship with and and and partnership with Tiger Woods.

593
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 4: So I mean there's he's gonna have to get whatever

594
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 4: it is he needs to get or wants to get

595
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 4: out of some sort of deal as it relates to

596
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 4: not only Tiger but his stable of players. I just

597
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 4: I I still wonder where, where and what he's how

598
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 4: involved he is in all of this.

599
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that goes back to why I set

600
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: the top up, making the players hole. I mean, Steinberg

601
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 2: very clearly with with Tigers urging and nudging, refused to

602
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: send anybody to live. The only the only Excel Sports

603
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: management guy who went with Thomas Peters, and they parted

604
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: ways of them as soon as he landed in Mexico.

605
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 2: So this new co is now a chance for these

606
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: players to get paid for their loyal t you know,

607
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 2: Jimmy Dunn talked about granting them equity in the new company.

608
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: That could be very valuable over time. But what these

609
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 2: guys want is cold hard cash. And there's no more

610
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 2: rules anymore. It's if it's a for profit business, they

611
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 2: can They could just give spot bonuses. Okay, Rory, here's

612
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 2: one hundred million, John ram here's your seventy five million.

613
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: This is your loyalty bonus. They can They can give

614
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 2: all the middle class, the guys who are so up

615
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: in arms at the players meetings. They can say, Okay,

616
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 2: you know in twenty twenty three, you got a five

617
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,439
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars stipend from the tour. Now it's three

618
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 2: million dollars. How do you feel now? Now they're happy.

619
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 2: They can they can be your appearance fees, there can

620
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: be bonuses, there's all this stuff. The piff money now

621
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 2: allows the players to be repaid for their loyalty, even

622
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: Chess and Hadley, which is funny because he was so

623
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 2: bitchy about it. But and so Steinberg needs that. He

624
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 2: needs that because he told his players not to go,

625
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: and he drew a line in the sand and they gave.

626
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 2: They left a lot of money on the table collectively.

627
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 2: So this is important for the Steinberg's of the world

628
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: and his players and the guys who didn't go. They

629
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 2: need to get paid and the PIFF money allows them

630
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 2: to do so.

631
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 4: It also allows the tour to will continue to work

632
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 4: with sponsors that they want to work with, that they've

633
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 4: been working with at an affordable rate. So if the

634
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 4: number is twenty million that they need to get to

635
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 4: per tournament, and PIFF puts in ten and that means

636
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 4: the AT and T's or the Chevrons or whoever else

637
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 4: you know, whoever else is coming in as you know,

638
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 4: John Deere's and every but now it's there can still

639
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 4: there can be an affordable rate. You're back down to

640
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 4: the eight to twelve to potentially you know, the fifteen

641
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 4: million dollar range as opposed to asking these these sponsors

642
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 4: for twenty million and you get a better product as

643
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 4: a result. Do you think there there is some potential

644
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 4: for a live versus tour team events and you know,

645
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 4: to to cash to cash in on some sense of

646
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 4: the the uh, the competitive spirit so to speak.

647
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: I mean that would be a blockbuster if if live endurors,

648
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 2: why not have a couple of co sanctioned events and

649
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 2: you know that people don't pay any attention to them,

650
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 2: but they have these point standings on live for both

651
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 2: the teams and individual players. Based on how they finish,

652
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: they accrue points, and so you could say, okay, the

653
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 2: top six live teams will then now take on six

654
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 2: teams of PGA Tour loyalists. And how how much fun

655
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 2: would that be and how the tour players arrange that

656
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 2: would be that'd be part of the backstory who who

657
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 2: drafts who, all the allegiances and how much fun would

658
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 2: those tournaments be? I mean there would be like a

659
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 2: real energy around them, and the money could count for

660
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 2: you know, the tour money list, and the PIFF could

661
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: pay the whole perse and that could that would be

662
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: a huge boost to live obviously, and I think it'd

663
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: be fun for fans. And there was language in the

664
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 2: framework agreement that you know that the pg Tour and

665
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 2: the European Tour will make this good faith effort to

666
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: incorporate Team Golf into its schedule. It's quite possible to

667
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 2: just cannibalize the idea if Live goes away, But if

668
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 2: Live enders, I think it would be insane not not

669
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 2: to have some of these tournaments where you bring it

670
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: together and it just creates this this whole other subplot.

671
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 4: So yeah, and a whole other marketing component in terms

672
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 4: of logos and merchandise, and it's a way for I mean,

673
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 4: you know, and if you take if you take this

674
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 4: ZERI Classic and see the popularity of that sub event

675
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 4: within the tour already and you kind of expand upon that.

676
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 4: So so just to summarize, your biggest takeaway from reading this,

677
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 4: you know, this term sheet, so to speak, is that

678
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,320
Speaker 4: it's got a long way to go to actually become

679
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 4: a reality to you know that that that was your

680
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 4: biggest takeaway, as wow, this is this is just the framework.

681
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they're you know, when when Jay was talking

682
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: about it, and Jimmy Dunn was talking about and even

683
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 2: Yosser on CNBC, there were not a lot of specifics,

684
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 2: so you you kind of felt like, are they holding

685
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 2: back They don't want to say the wrong thing, But No,

686
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 2: there are just no specifics period because they're not even

687
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 2: in the document like they were just there's nothing like

688
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 2: they basically just sketched out in the back of a

689
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 2: cocktail napkin and that said, okay, here took it to

690
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: the lawyers to make this soun official. So yeah, there's

691
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 2: there's clearly a long way to go.

692
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 4: And it was like everything negotiable except for like this,

693
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 4: this and this otherwise, like everything's on the table.

694
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean if you just put those guys back

695
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 2: in that cigar bar in London, it would not be

696
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 2: easy to get to the finish line. Now you have

697
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 2: all the player directors, you have all the pack you

698
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 2: have Keith Pelly in the European Tour and all his constituents,

699
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 2: you have the Department of Justice, you have Senator Blumenthal,

700
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 2: like you've just added another a bunch of problematic you know,

701
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: cooked into the kitchen and so it it's you know,

702
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: you get you get ten tour players in the room.

703
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 2: They can't even just have what kind of pizza they

704
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: want to order, like this is this is going to

705
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 2: be really complex. So yeah, the key takeaways are they

706
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 2: have a long way to go. There's not a lot

707
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 2: of clarity. The future of live golf remains uncertain.

708
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 4: The and the future of j Monahan is uncertain. Future

709
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 4: of Greg Norman is uncertain, future of like the future

710
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 4: of the team component is uncertain. The future like it's

711
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 4: just uncertain, uncertain, uncertain.

712
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 2: The only short thing is is yaser. But again, if

713
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 2: they can't consummate this agreement, doesn't the piff is not

714
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: a sure thing like that. They have to get this

715
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 2: in the barn. I mean, so the PJ Tour will

716
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 2: endure on some level, whether they bring in private equity

717
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 2: money or or they wind up with the piff. I mean,

718
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: it could even prosper. But the only thing we know

719
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: is that they're gonna play golf next year under the

720
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 2: PGA Tour umbrella, and everything else is a maybe. And

721
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 2: it's it's a fascinating moment. It it just it throws

722
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: everything everything we thought we knew is is up for grabs.

723
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 4: You know, it seemed like, what about what about the

724
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 4: Ryder Cup? It does loosen things upright for Captain's picks

725
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 4: Ryder Cup to to it has to write at some

726
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 4: at some point we can drop the whole you know.

727
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 2: I mean, this is the crazy thing is even this

728
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 2: new this new era of cooperation, supposedly that the rules

729
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 2: and regulations remain like this kind of religion. And so

730
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: Keith Pelly said the day after all this news broke,

731
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 2: you know, we only have two rules to play in

732
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 2: in on the European team, and one of them is,

733
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 2: you know, you have to be you have to be

734
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 2: a member of the European Tour. And all the Live

735
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 2: guys resigned so they won't have to pay their fines

736
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 2: and if they want to they can. They can reapply

737
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 2: for membership, but they'd have to pay their fines, they'd

738
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 2: have to serve their suspensions. And then Pelic said, but

739
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 2: even then we'd have to look at it because the

740
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 2: deadline for membership was May first, and they missed the deadline.

741
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 2: It's like, really key, like how much more like bureaucratic

742
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 2: can you be? So it doesn't there's not too many

743
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 2: guys who were strong contenders to play. I mean Thomas Peters,

744
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 2: he's got a good case. He's been playing well this year.

745
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 2: He was you know, thirty fourth in the world when

746
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 2: he went to Live, so he was a contender. Burned Weisberger.

747
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 2: He played in two thousand the last Ryder Cup, so

748
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: he's he was a contender. You know, he hasn't been

749
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 2: playing that well, I mean rom and Sergios. Yes, because

750
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: because rom and Sergio went undefeated last time, and because

751
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 2: rom Is advocated and he's so important the team, Sergio

752
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: was in the mix. That's probably it. So three maybes.

753
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 2: But it's just funny the team. Yeah, well that's true.

754
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 2: I mean it's just funny that they're, oh, they missed

755
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,720
Speaker 2: the deadline. We can't do anything about it, like really,

756
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 2: like everything's up for grabs. The US has always been

757
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: in a different, different scenario where the PGA of America

758
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: grandfathered all the live guys in because they don't want

759
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: to deal with it. They're like, here's Zach, this is

760
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: your problem, not ours. So they extended their their PG

761
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 2: of American membership, so any of the any of the

762
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 2: live guys can play, even those who resigned their tour

763
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 2: membership because they were grand followed in by the pg

764
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,959
Speaker 2: of America. So now it's going to be up to Zach,

765
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: and certainly it'll make it easier for him to pick

766
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 2: Brooks and or Dustin because the walls have come down

767
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 2: and they're not the bad guys anymore. But you know,

768
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: Brooks is a sure thing whether he qualifies or not.

769
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 2: Dustin has not played well enough in the majors. He's

770
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 2: played well week to week on live. But it's interesting

771
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 2: because even that starting to change, like everyone was so

772
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: quick to devalue the live victories and the live performances.

773
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: I did see something. It was it was Kyle Porter,

774
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 2: who's been very anti live, but he had a he

775
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: had a list of players were on the bubble for

776
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 2: the Ryder Cup and it was worldwide wins and he

777
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: included the live events. So it's like, all of a sudden,

778
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 2: we're kind of upgrading the live events in this this

779
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: new reality. So in that context, Dustin has two worldwide

780
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: wins and he should be he should be a contender.

781
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,479
Speaker 2: I mean, Taylor Gooch is interesting because by any measure,

782
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: he should probably be on the US team, but he's

783
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 2: been so polarizing and he's been such a troll, and

784
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 2: there's a lot of hard feelings around Taylor, and he

785
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 2: was one of the guys who sued the tour, So

786
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: I don't think he'll get strong consideration. Brooks and Dustin

787
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 2: kind of stayed above the fray. They weren't parties to

788
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: the lawsuits. They haven't been talking to any trash on Twitter,

789
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: and so I think I think that they would be

790
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 2: welcome back. Goot, no, Patrick Reid know, so those are

791
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 2: those are probably the only other guys who would be

792
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 2: in the mix.

793
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 4: So what happens? What happens July eleventh?

794
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: What?

795
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 4: What? What's your sense?

796
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 2: A lot of political grand standing, A lot of mealy

797
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:27,439
Speaker 2: mouthed pronouncements from the witnesses. Now will Will Yasser even

798
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 2: show up? I mean that they they were prepared lives

799
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 2: lawyers are prepared to go to the Supreme Court trying

800
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 2: to prevent him from being deposed by the Department of

801
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 2: Justice because he, you know, all Romayan has this dual

802
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 2: role where he's a member of He's a high ranking

803
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 2: member of the Saudi government. He's also maybe the world's

804
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: most important businessman, and so as a as a sovereign,

805
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: as a member of the sovereign you know, ruling party,

806
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 2: he would probably be exempt from having to testify. As

807
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 2: this business guy who runs a big oil company and

808
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 2: who sponsored this this golf tour, they could probably compel

809
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 2: him to testify. That was the early judgments from the

810
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 2: lower courts saying, you know, that this falls. There's a

811
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 2: carve out. If you're running commercial activities, you can't you

812
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 2: can't claim immunity. So but that was head to the

813
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,760
Speaker 2: Supreme Court. That was part of why why the PGA

814
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,919
Speaker 2: tour cried uncle, because that was gonna take two years

815
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: to get the Supreme Court. And so his role is unknown.

816
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 2: I think they have until July fourth to declare to

817
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: respond to the invitation. Essentially, Jay Day Monahan's health is unknown.

818
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 2: The only guy who wants to be there is Greg Norman.

819
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 2: Like he would love that because he was he's been

820
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 2: marginalized in this process. He's had no voice, he's kind

821
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 2: of been yeah, so he would love to be on

822
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 2: Capitol Hill with all the cameras on him. And if

823
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 2: you remember, you know he did this this big tour

824
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 2: where he met with lawmakers and and this was set

825
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 2: up by the lobbyists that live employees, and it was

826
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: kind of a disaster because some of the lawmakers said

827
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 2: they had some really harsh things to say about Norman afterwards,

828
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 2: and the quotes went around the world. So even though

829
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 2: he was burned, he the guy's so he lusts after

830
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 2: the spotlight. So of the three, he's the only one

831
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 2: who wants to be there, whether the other two you

832
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 2: know in Monahan al Ramayan, will be compelled and or

833
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 2: feel like it's in their best interest. So the political

834
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 2: theater is going to be fabulous. And I don't know.

835
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 2: I wonder if I should even if I should make

836
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 2: a run out to d C. But we'll talk about

837
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 2: that another time, you and I, Matt. It's gonna be

838
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 2: it's gonna be interesting. Is it is.

839
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 4: Your book done?

840
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 2: Now?

841
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,959
Speaker 4: Did you did? Is it done? Down? Do you still

842
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 4: have roomed update?

843
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah? I stayed up last night working on it. I

844
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 2: mean it's the publisher has committed taking this down to

845
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: the wire. It doesn't go to print until mid August,

846
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 2: so well after this stuff on Capitol Hill will play

847
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 2: out after the Open Championship. After there's probably gonna be

848
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 2: a World Ranking adjudication. So I'm constantly tweaking it. And

849
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 2: it's so it's going to be up to the minute

850
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 2: as much as you can be with a book that

851
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 2: has to be printed and distributed. So yeah, no, I'm

852
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 2: still I had turned it in, but we uh. It's

853
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 2: always a process, even in any scenario when when when

854
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: you turn in a book you get it back at

855
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 2: least twice. It goes through their copy editing, it goes

856
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 2: through the legal review. You're always you're always vetting it

857
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 2: and looking for you know, misplaced commas and stuff like that.

858
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 2: So there's always going to be some time now, you know,

859
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: Simon Schuster and Avid Reader Press, to their great credit,

860
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 2: they they're like, this is this is too big a deal.

861
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 2: We have too much invested in this book. We want

862
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 2: it to be as current as possible, so like it's

863
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: institutionally we're taking it down to the last possible second

864
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 2: so it's up to date.

865
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 4: An excerpt obviously, will be hitting the Firepit Collective dot

866
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 4: com at some point soon, which I'm excited about.

867
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I already kind of know what I want

868
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 2: to do for the first excerpt. It's going to be cool.

869
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:15,439
Speaker 2: I mean, the people have said, oh, you can just whisper.

870
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 4: It to me. You can just tell me his microphone on.

871
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 2: We'll let Connie Chung the Nuke Gangridge just whispered you have.

872
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 2: All the cameras were rolling and they're wearing microphones. You know.

873
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 2: Some folks have said, oh, do does this hurt the book?

874
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 2: I think it helps it because there's so much context,

875
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 2: like how do we get to this moment and the

876
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 2: first excerpt, we'll dive into that, and and the things

877
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 2: that Jaymonhan did or did not do along the way

878
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 2: become even more paramount. And you know, I know.

879
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 4: Enough to know about what you've said to me through

880
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 4: the reporting process to know the book is definitely going

881
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 4: to benefit from all of this.

882
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's cool. The whole story is in one place.

883
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 2: You know, we don't know the exact ending, but we

884
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,439
Speaker 2: we've just got a huge clue. So that's my dog

885
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 2: whining in the background. I guess it's time to wrap

886
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 2: up the podcast, according to Wante, but yeah, this is

887
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 2: we didn't even get a chance to really talk about

888
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 2: very quickly, Matt, because we tease at the top, like

889
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 2: all the fun things that we're working on at the

890
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: Firepit Collective. Give the listeners a little teaser on some

891
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 2: of the stuff that's you know, there's these long form

892
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 2: videos they're long ingestation Like we've been working on this

893
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 2: stuff for a while. We haven't been able to leak

894
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 2: it out, but what can people look forward to?

895
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 4: Final letters are being made to our Dublin travel show

896
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 4: as we speak. We are under the hood on building

897
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 4: out Belfast, which I'm excited about. We're also releasing a

898
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 4: little sizzle about the project we have going to Pasa

899
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:51,280
Speaker 4: Tiempo jim Orbina restoring the original Alistair Mackenzie Greens after decades,

900
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 4: almost one hundred years of sand splash and wash out

901
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 4: from you know, different components of mother nature and top

902
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 4: dressing and all that goes with all that. There were virtually,

903
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 4: you know, very few pinnable locations if you're gonna run

904
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 4: them at modern day green speeds at pasta tempo. So

905
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 4: that's that's an incredible project that that I'm really excited about,

906
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 4: that we're excited about. We have a couple that we

907
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 4: actually can't talk about. We you know, we've already released

908
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 4: the sizzle of Cobbs the building of Gamble Sands, David

909
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 4: McClay kidd building a second course there, going back up

910
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 4: to Brewster, Washington next week. We've been out and we're

911
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 4: documenting some of what's happening at Cobbs Creek in Philadelphia

912
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 4: and creating a sizzle video there. Canal Shores in Chicago

913
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,919
Speaker 4: is another project that we we've been on site for

914
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 4: and we're we're looking to to document some of what's

915
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 4: going to be happening there and and you know, obviously

916
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 4: we put out the Maggie Hathaway feature really exciting about

917
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 4: what's happening in Los Angeles to that nine whole Part

918
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 4: three course and the you know, upwards of fifteen to

919
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 4: eighteen million dollars being put into to that facility, which

920
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,720
Speaker 4: I think is what a nice tribute to a woman

921
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 4: who I've just gotten to learn a lot about over

922
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 4: the course of the last you know, a few months

923
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 4: and beyond. And wow, what a powerhouse. You know, I

924
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 4: talk about Susie Whaley or maryon Hollins or some of

925
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 4: these other women who have had a big impact in

926
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 4: the world of golf. Mega Maggie Hathaway is was all world.

927
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 4: I wish I got to get got to meet her.

928
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of our secret projects. My shoes are

929
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 2: still dirty. I'm coming in hot from a secret spot

930
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 2: in San Francisco and I can't say any more than that,

931
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 2: but it was today and yeah, I mean, just just

932
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 2: to give people a better idea, like these are all

933
00:51:55,520 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 2: really cool golf course projects, restorations, new builds, whatever they

934
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: may be, and we're kind of some of them are

935
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,959
Speaker 2: chronicling from the very very beginning and going back over

936
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 2: time to see how it evolves. And you're there with

937
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 2: the architects and the builders and the guys and the

938
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: bulldozers and you know where I was today, they were

939
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,359
Speaker 2: hydro seeding. They're blasting, you know, thousands and thousands of

940
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 2: grass seilings all over the It's like cool a lot

941
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 2: and it's education for us and the one There are

942
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 2: all different projects different parts of the country, but the

943
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 2: connective tissue is the passion. Like the people behind these

944
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 2: projects are just so into it and it's all about

945
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 2: making great golf and they're public. I mean, Gamble Sands

946
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 2: is just waiting for people to make that pilgrimage. Positive

947
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:46,879
Speaker 2: Tempo to me is one of the most important golf

948
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 2: courses in the world because it's prime Alistair mackenzie that

949
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,439
Speaker 2: anybody can play. It's half the price of Pebble Beaches.

950
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 2: It's not cheap, but it's doable. You don't have to

951
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 2: stay at the lodge, you know, it's it's not it's

952
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 2: way cheaper than Pinehurst than any of these other citadels

953
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,439
Speaker 2: that really exclude a big chunk of the population because

954
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 2: they're just so pricey and Pasa Tempo is a dream,

955
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 2: and so for us to be out there as these

956
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 2: iconic greens are being rebuilt and we're we have the

957
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 2: cameras rolling and we can bring the whole process to

958
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 2: life like that's going to be so cool for people

959
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 2: to get to watch all those.

960
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 4: Had to happen. I mean those greens, you know, ninety

961
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 4: years old, drainage issues, you know, pinnable locations, and it

962
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 4: being as important as it is as you just described,

963
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 4: Alistair McKenzie accessible the membership. What they did, and you know,

964
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 4: we've been following along for well over a year, what

965
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 4: they did for the greater good of their course, the

966
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 4: future membership for anybody who's going to rock up and

967
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 4: play that golf course ten years from now, thirty years

968
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 4: from now, fifty years from now. I give him a

969
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 4: lot of credit. That took guts and took a lot

970
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 4: of cohesive conversation and collaboration communication. Justin mannon the superintendent,

971
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 4: there was critical Scott Hoyt, the former GM, Steve Vargo's

972
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,240
Speaker 4: there now, the current GM ken Woods is the head pro.

973
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 4: There's a lot of really smart people on their board,

974
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 4: the decision makers, and Jim orbina Is talk about passion

975
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 4: and an understanding of McKenzie and the drawings he has

976
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 4: access to and what they're doing USGA, you know, greens

977
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 4: from a drainage standpoint, they're able to follow the layering

978
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 4: and the aging of the sand and dirt as they

979
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 4: cut into that, into those those greens, and they're able

980
00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 4: to see the original undulation of those greens based on

981
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 4: on the sort of the aging layers of the land

982
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 4: of the sand, and they can still make, you know,

983
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,240
Speaker 4: judgment calls, and they can still sort of compromise based

984
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 4: on what they what they ultimately want to do. But

985
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 4: this is going to be a fascinating reveal for architectural

986
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:29,800
Speaker 4: geeks or or agronomy geeks, for pasta tempa alistair McKinsey geeks,

987
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 4: for golf geeks considering what that golf course is and

988
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 4: what it means to golf in America. I put it

989
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 4: in the conversation with the Pebbles and the Pinehurst number

990
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 4: twos and in terms of accessible, but then also the

991
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 4: pine Valleys and Chicago Golf Clubs and National Golf Links

992
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 4: of America. This is this is one of the this

993
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 4: is one of the ones that I think are way

994
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 4: way underrated in terms of where it comes in on

995
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 4: the rankings. I see some of the rankings and where

996
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 4: positive tiempo is as it relates to some of the

997
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 4: other Jabbroniville golf courses that are in the top one hundred,

998
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,919
Speaker 4: and I'm like, it's an embarrassment. It's an embarrassment.

999
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 2: Gauzer rants or something.

1000
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 4: It's a bond, like it's like a joke.

1001
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean it's it's up there with Augusta

1002
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:18,240
Speaker 2: National and Cyprus Point and Royal Melbourne. I mean, anyone

1003
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 2: can go play it, like I know, that's what's so amazing,

1004
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 2: and it's epic. Oh it is, it really is.

1005
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,919
Speaker 4: And it's going to get even better because now Justin,

1006
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 4: who's an incredible superintendent, is going to be able to

1007
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 4: run them real fast on fair and pinnable locations. So

1008
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 4: it's going to get it's just going to get more

1009
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 4: interesting and more fair and more and more fun. But

1010
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 4: it's not necessarily going to get you know, get people like,

1011
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 4: oh it's going to be too easy. No it's not.

1012
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 4: Now they can put pin. Now they can tuck pins

1013
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 4: and have it actually be fair. So yeah, that's that's

1014
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 4: one of the things I'm most excited. I mean, every

1015
00:56:55,640 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 4: one of them is so different. It's development, restoration, rent, innovation.

1016
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 4: You know, it's a little bit of you know, it's municipal,

1017
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:09,800
Speaker 4: it's community assets, it's you know, we're we're we're diving

1018
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 4: deep into all these different projects. And I don't think

1019
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 4: that this is going to end in twenty twenty three.

1020
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 4: I think this is going to be a big part

1021
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 4: of what we do as a company going forward, in additional,

1022
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 4: in addition to some of the other stuff. So yeah,

1023
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 4: it's this is a this is a good time to

1024
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 4: be doing what we're doing, storytelling around some very interesting

1025
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 4: and compelling stories. So thanks for all that you're doing

1026
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 4: keeping us updated on on this fight for the soul

1027
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 4: of the game. And and meanwhile it's fun to collaborate

1028
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 4: on some of this other stuff as well.

1029
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I've seen some of the rough cuts on

1030
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 2: these things. People are going to love it. Like the

1031
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 2: Ireland stuff is so rich. And you know, you've been

1032
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 2: been on the travel beat for thirty years basically, and

1033
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people do in travel, but you

1034
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 2: were there first, and you have this this depth of

1035
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 2: knowledge and uh, these relationships and I mean you're practically

1036
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 2: an honorary Irishman at this point, So oh, Janella, like,

1037
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: we're gonna I're gonna have to rename it.

1038
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's part of the Dublin thing. I go

1039
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 4: find my family heritage. And would you believe that my

1040
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 4: great great grandfather, Michael Boland farmed, rented, and then bought

1041
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 4: and farmed eighteen acres of land within a stone's throw

1042
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 4: of Doonebeg golf course. So fucking Donald Trump was my neighbor.

1043
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 2: Got eighteen acres. We could have put an incredible little

1044
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 2: part three course in the dude.

1045
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 4: I'm gonna do it. We're gonna held out my grandma.

1046
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 4: Apparently my grandma tried to buy it and she wasn't

1047
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 4: a citizen at the time, so she she couldn't get it.

1048
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 4: But bringing my family back in a couple of weeks

1049
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 4: and we're going to go find it.

1050
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 2: I love it. Well, that's great, al right, So I

1051
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 2: just a little teacher too. Lots of stuff happening here

1052
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 2: at the fire pit. Thanks for making to the end

1053
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 2: of this podcast. We appreciate all you listeners. We will

1054
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 2: keep coming at you. I'm gonna I had to get

1055
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 2: the book done. I'm gonna get back to writing my

1056
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 2: weekly asked Allen columns, so we can look for those,

1057
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 2: and lots of lots of fun stuff percolating here. So

1058
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 2: for Matt Janella, this is Alan Schipnuk. That was another

1059
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 2: Fire Drill podcast. Thanks for listening, and this is the end. Goodbye.

1060
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 3: I'm bed big again.

1061
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: I played the wind, made a fortune when my ship

1062
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: came and I ran the table and never thought I

1063
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: could fall down the wind and time hit me. Lack

1064
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 1: of cannon the ball, and now I can't I shake this,

1065
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 1: losing the stream.

1066
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 3: Every road I take is a dead end street.

1067
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 2: I got thoughts in my head.

1068
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 3: I can't give them joy and not the thing what

1069
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about. I kind of thoughts in my head.

1070
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 3: I can't get them out. Trying not to think what

1071
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about.