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Speaker 1: I've never been in trouble in my life. I didn't

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Speaker 1: even have a parking ticket, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I was brought up like cops are the good guys.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what was going to happen, but I

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Speaker 1: do know that everything was stacked against me. Everything like everything.

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Speaker 2: This isn't supposed to happen this way.

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Speaker 1: I'm innocent.

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Speaker 2: I know I'm innocent.

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Speaker 1: I know I had nothing to do with this.

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Speaker 2: How is this possible?

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Speaker 3: I grew up trusting the systems. I've grew up believing

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Speaker 3: that every human being should do the right thing. And

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Speaker 3: that's why, even though I knew I was dealing with

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Speaker 3: Coreugh people, I wasn't going to break anyone to get

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Speaker 3: me out of prison because I wouldn't live with the

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Speaker 3: fact that I break my way out of my wife's death.

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Speaker 1: I'm not innocent, too proven guilty. I'm guilty until I

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Speaker 1: prove my innocence. And that's absolutely what happened to me.

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Speaker 1: Our system.

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Speaker 4: Since I've been out ten years, it has come a

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Speaker 4: little ways, but it's still broken.

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Speaker 3: I totally lot trusting humanity after what's happened to me.

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Speaker 4: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with

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Speaker 4: Jason Flamm. Today's episode features two extraordinary people. Steve Fishman,

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Speaker 4: the journalist who was the host of Empire on Blood,

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Speaker 4: which played a role in the ultimate reversal of the

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Speaker 4: conviction of our other guest who was in prison for

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Speaker 4: over two decades for a double murder he didn't commit.

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Speaker 4: And that's Calvin.

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Speaker 5: Bar Calvin Buari was convicted of a double homicide in

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Speaker 5: nineteen ninety five, but maintained he was innocent for more

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Speaker 5: than two decades. He was released last year after his

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Speaker 5: conviction was overturned, but prosecutors threatened to retry the case

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Speaker 5: until last week.

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Speaker 4: So Steve, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 4: Jason and Calvin Welcome to Wrongful Conviction.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 4: Jason, Let's get right into the story, because your story

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Speaker 4: has more twists and turns than a Hollywood movie. I

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Speaker 4: would say, let's go back to the beginning. Calvin, where

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Speaker 4: did you grow up?

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Speaker 1: I grew up in the Bronx. I grew up at

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Speaker 1: nine to twenty two East to eleventh Street in the

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Speaker 1: northeast section of the Bronx Wakefield area.

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Speaker 4: And what was that like? What was your childhood, Like,

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Speaker 4: did you have brothers, sisters? Were your parents at home?

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Speaker 4: Was it a tough neighborhood? What was the situation growing up?

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Speaker 1: That's where I was born, But I was moving around.

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Speaker 1: Where was that At one time? I was staying in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: in the Brownsville area. You know, it's very rough, especially

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Speaker 1: in the seventies at that time. I was a baby

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Speaker 1: when I was in the Bronx, but I came back

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Speaker 1: to the Bronx because that's where my grandmother lived and

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Speaker 1: my mother ended up moving back with her mother.

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Speaker 4: Your dad wasn't around, No, my.

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Speaker 1: Dad wasn't around. He left me when I was about

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Speaker 1: I think three or four years old.

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Speaker 4: And what about brothers and sisters.

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Speaker 1: I have one brother, one younger brother who's a year

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Speaker 1: younger than me. His name is Abdul b That's just

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Speaker 1: a brother on my mother's side. I have a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of other siblings on my father's side as well

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Speaker 1: that I just recently started getting in contact with.

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Speaker 4: Got it, Okay, So you grew up in well difficult circumstances, right,

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Speaker 4: dodge in trouble and ultimately getting into getting into trouble,

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Speaker 4: but not the trouble that you were convicted of right. No,

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Speaker 4: absolutely not, and that's part of the crazy story. So

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Speaker 4: you were known as a fixture in the drug trade

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Speaker 4: at the time that this went on, right, Yes, And

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Speaker 4: you were in the crosshairs of the police as a

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Speaker 4: result of the fact that you were a known dealer.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 4: And can you just give us a quick overview of

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Speaker 4: what your life was like when you were in the

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Speaker 4: game in the Bronx back then.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when I was in the game, I could

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Speaker 1: say I was on top of my game, my lifestyle

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Speaker 1: was good, I had money, and I was doing well,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I don't know what else I could

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Speaker 1: say about that.

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Speaker 6: I mean I could have add at a little bit

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Speaker 6: of few details. Cal sometimes likes to talk about him,

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Speaker 6: but you know that's not who he is now. So

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Speaker 6: I understand a little shyness about it. But Cal is

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Speaker 6: he most told me he was living the life. And

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Speaker 6: we think of people imitating rap stars now, but rap

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Speaker 6: stars back then were imitating people like Cal So. He

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Speaker 6: had a couple of mink coats, he had a matching

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Speaker 6: mink hat. He had two what he called black Man's wishes,

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Speaker 6: which b m W. The car that let people know

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Speaker 6: that he made it and I think, yeah, that was

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Speaker 6: part of the great thrill of it. But in the end,

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Speaker 6: that brought a lot of attention into the can at

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Speaker 6: the wrong kind of attention.

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Speaker 4: I'm not judging one way or the other. I don't

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Speaker 4: think anybody can unless they walk a mile in your shoes.

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Speaker 4: That being said, how did this crazy situation unfold? You

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Speaker 4: were convicted of a murder in nineteen ninety two, So

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Speaker 4: on that faithful night of September tenth, nineteen ninety two,

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Speaker 4: two brothers, Elijah and Saladin Harris, twenty four and twenty

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Speaker 4: five years old, were murdered in cold blood as they

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Speaker 4: sat in the car eating their food. And that's what

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Speaker 4: started this whole chain of events that led to your

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Speaker 4: wrong for conviction. Yes, were you there at the time.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't on the scene where the crime happened at

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Speaker 1: I was in the middle of the block. It was

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Speaker 1: probably what like five hundred or one thousand feet away

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Speaker 1: from where the incident actually took place when it had happened.

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Speaker 1: But I was always in and around that area at

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Speaker 1: all times. That was the block that I was known

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Speaker 1: for selling drugs at.

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Speaker 6: Just to set the scene. One of the things that's

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Speaker 6: kind of incredible. Cow was a drug distributor, a very

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Speaker 6: good one. I mean, he's got immense entrepreneurial talents, which

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Speaker 6: also served him well when he was in prison and

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Speaker 6: managing his own case.

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Speaker 2: But the thing that's incredible.

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Speaker 6: Going back to the late eighties early nineties, is that

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Speaker 6: the cops target Cow and they say it out loud.

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Speaker 6: It's in the newspaper, we want Cow Buari and they

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Speaker 6: go so far as to say he's not only a murderer,

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Speaker 6: we believe a drug dealer who walks around flaunting his success,

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Speaker 6: but he knows black magic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like the biggest propaganda in the world.

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Speaker 1: I think that only happened because they figured out that

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Speaker 1: I had an African last name, and instead of me

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Speaker 1: knowing this black magic as they proclaimed, they were the

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Speaker 1: ones that were really on the witch hunt and they

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Speaker 1: just wanted me by all means necessary. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I learned later is this is the

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Speaker 1: way that Alan Caren when he mentions how you know,

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Speaker 1: he utilized different tactics and angles, that was actually one

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Speaker 1: of his biggest tools. Because what happened was when I

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Speaker 1: went to trial, not only did he ambush me with surprise,

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Speaker 1: witnesses that me or my lawyer didn't know about who

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Speaker 1: was coming into wrongly accuse me. He also utilized the media,

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Speaker 1: so now jurors were actually getting that article delivered in

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Speaker 1: little flyers to their houses while I was on trial.

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Speaker 4: Wow, you never heard telling before?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think there was even like a newsletter, a

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Speaker 6: co op newsletter.

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Speaker 2: That did this.

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Speaker 6: And you know, Alan Karen's the prosecute. He works for

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Speaker 6: the bronx DA, He's got a big reputation. He comes

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Speaker 6: in like they're throwing their heavy hitter at it because

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Speaker 6: they want Col. And you know Cal has in their minds.

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Speaker 6: I think he's you've been accused of another murder and

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Speaker 6: Cal keeps eluding them, and this kind of engenders this

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Speaker 6: ferocity on their part to let's get Cow.

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Speaker 4: And that's something that I talk about a lot. You know,

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Speaker 4: when they take this talk about black magic like a

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Speaker 4: witch hunter, they decide they're going to get Col. Right.

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Speaker 4: That means, now this double murder happens, are like, how convenient,

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Speaker 4: we'll pin this on you. But in the meantime, that

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Speaker 4: means by definition that they're totally willing to ignore the

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Speaker 4: actual killer or killers, who are then going to be

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Speaker 4: free to go do it again. But I want to

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Speaker 4: go back a little bit because there you are five

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Speaker 4: hundred one thousand feet away whatever shots ring out. I mean,

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Speaker 4: this was a very violent time, right was there a

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Speaker 4: were shootings a frequent thing in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: I mean in that era, murders were at an all

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Speaker 1: time high in New York. I think at that time

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Speaker 1: was the murder capital. You know, you had two thousand

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Speaker 1: and something murders a year. Looking back at that time

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Speaker 1: and that age, you know, literally I knew that when

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Speaker 1: I was in the lifestyle I was in. Every day

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Speaker 1: that I walked out my house, I knew I was

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Speaker 1: putting my life on the line. But you know, to me,

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Speaker 1: it was a sacrifice because I felt like I had

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Speaker 1: to beat the man of my household because my father

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Speaker 1: wasn't around and I was the oldest sibling, and my

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Speaker 1: mother lost a job and she was struggling.

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Speaker 4: So even in a neighborhood where shootings were a regular occurrence,

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Speaker 4: this was a double murder of two brothers, and you

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Speaker 4: heard the shots. Did you go to the scenes, and

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Speaker 4: then how did it happen? When did the arrest happen,

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Speaker 4: and when did you start to see that this was

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Speaker 4: really going to be your undoing.

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Speaker 1: After that happened, I had immediately ran to the opposite

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Speaker 1: end of the block and I was with a friend

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Speaker 1: of mine's, John Parris, you know may rest in Piec's

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Speaker 1: not here today. And then when I walked back up

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Speaker 1: to the block, we walked to his house because he

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Speaker 1: had drugs on him, and we started seeing police come

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Speaker 1: to the corner of the block, so we wanted to

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Speaker 1: know what was going on because we just heard the

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Speaker 1: shots go off. So once he had took what he

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Speaker 1: had in the house, we walked up to the block

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Speaker 1: and that's when I found out that two guys had

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Speaker 1: got murdered.

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Speaker 4: Did you know those guys? No?

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Speaker 1: I didn't.

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Speaker 4: Were you arrested on the spot or no, I wasn't.

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Speaker 1: I was arrested six months later. I was arrested because

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Speaker 1: Aldrick Griffin, he was one of the leaders of the

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Speaker 1: Shower Posse, the Jamaican gang called the Shower Posse, and

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Speaker 1: from the records that I had read, he had gotten

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Speaker 1: locked up for inoperable or a firearm, a weapon, and

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Speaker 1: I think some drugs. He already wanted to get me

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Speaker 1: off the block because he was also my competition of

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Speaker 1: course the street. So that's how I got arrested. He

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Speaker 1: falsely accused me for killing the Harvest brothers.

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Speaker 6: And remember, I mean this block gets called eventually Corner

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Speaker 6: on Blood, right on that corner, and you know, some

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Speaker 6: years later, there's like seven eight nine shootings within the

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Speaker 6: span of a month, so this becomes a very very

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Speaker 6: hot block. Juliani comes in, he wants to clean it up.

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Speaker 6: Calf kind of falls into that to that profile in

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Speaker 6: a big way. But when they first arrest him, I

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Speaker 6: think it's March of ninety three, so that's like six

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Speaker 6: months after the actual executions. It's an aspirational arrest. I mean,

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Speaker 6: they got one witness who may or may not hold

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Speaker 6: up in court, but they want Cal off the street.

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Speaker 6: So hey, we're gonna throw him in jail for as

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Speaker 6: long as we can, and we're going to try and

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Speaker 6: develop a case while we're holding him, and they don't

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Speaker 6: have a case. It takes some years, and the thing

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Speaker 6: that comes out is that they're actually about to walk

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Speaker 6: away from this case. They're completely bluffing. Cal mentions Alan Karen,

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Speaker 6: the prosecutor, and really he tells me in the podcast

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Speaker 6: he had no case. He says I was bluffing. I

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Speaker 6: was going to take this as far as I could

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Speaker 6: and then dismiss it. And then there's a twist and

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Speaker 6: a turn that intervenes three years later.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on that too. I literally have

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Speaker 1: to commence Steve because I think that he did a

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Speaker 1: more thorough investigation than any prosecutor, than any lawyer that

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Speaker 1: I ever had, than any detective that was ever on

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Speaker 1: my case. And he talked to every single individual that

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Speaker 1: had anything to do with my case. And you know,

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Speaker 1: with that bluff that he said, that was a violation

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Speaker 1: of the sixth Amendment to my speedy trial rights. He

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Speaker 1: never had had a case against me. They always knew

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Speaker 1: that that guy initially was lying. When he got arrested,

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Speaker 1: he immediately went back to Jamaica. He wasn't trying to

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Speaker 1: cooperate with them. He just utilized me to get out

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Speaker 1: of jail and possibly get back on the block to

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Speaker 1: try to take over what I had going on out there,

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Speaker 1: you understand. And the sad part about it is when

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Speaker 1: you talk about Alan Caaren, you talk about one of

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Speaker 1: Robert Johnson's leading hitman, so speak.

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Speaker 6: That Johnson's the district attorney in the Bronx for twenty

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Speaker 6: five years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and with him it's sad because I know that

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Speaker 1: that man has a lot of individuals possibly in prison

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Speaker 1: right now for cases they didn't commit. And with Robert Johnson,

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Speaker 1: the reason why I brought him up is because under

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Speaker 1: his tenure, the Bronx had the most Brady violation and

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Speaker 1: prosbittorial misconduct violations than any other borough and none of

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Speaker 1: them ever has been chastised or punished for none of

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Speaker 1: these acts. So when they get away with doing these things,

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Speaker 1: they walk around as though they are above the law,

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Speaker 1: like with impunity that they have no punity. So it's

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Speaker 1: just sad, you know, rather than see justice done, Alan Cameron,

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Speaker 1: rather uphold the conviction. And that's who this man is.

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Speaker 1: And it's just a lot of other people that I

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Speaker 1: know that are in the situation that I am, because

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Speaker 1: when this God took a set on you, he was

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Speaker 1: gonna go by all means to take you down, period

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Speaker 1: and he showed that clearly when he spoke to Steve.

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Speaker 1: He has no impunity for that, you know.

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Speaker 4: No, it's something that we talk about unwrungful conviction a lot,

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Speaker 4: which is that until we are able to get rid

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Speaker 4: of prosecutorial immunity, which is almost total but probably the

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Speaker 4: only profession that enjoys that type of protection. Right almost

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Speaker 4: any job that you do. If you're a doctor and

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Speaker 4: you mess up, you know you're going down. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's like and there's so many exis samples of that,

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Speaker 4: but they're able to get away with just insane things.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's the most powerful position in the justice system.

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Speaker 4: I think most people think that a judge has an

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Speaker 4: ultimate authority, but we know, those of us who are

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Speaker 4: in this business know that the prosecutor has so much power.

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Speaker 4: They can drop charges whenever they want to, for whatever

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Speaker 4: reason they want to. They can throw the harshest penalties

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Speaker 4: at you. In an attempt to bluff, as you said,

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Speaker 4: to get you to cop a plea.

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Speaker 6: Cal Is offered a plea three years, three years, and

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Speaker 6: he turned it down because he's innocent. And you know,

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Speaker 6: to your point about the prosecutors, one thing that happens

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Speaker 6: is the system gives them, legitimately by law, enormous advantages.

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Speaker 6: Now imagine six witnesses come forward and testify against cal

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Speaker 6: and they're really drug dealers who have been in the

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Speaker 6: scene or people who have committed crimes, and the prosecution

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Speaker 6: is allowed to encouraged to hand out deals.

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Speaker 4: Sure.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 6: There's actually a guy in prison and they go to

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Speaker 6: him and they say how long you want to do

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Speaker 6: right or you can testify against Cal. By the way,

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Speaker 6: there's a guy who's very close to Cal. This all happens.

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Speaker 6: It's a kind of intimate drama. It all happens within

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Speaker 6: most of it, within a circle. But the second advantage,

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Speaker 6: and this is what really shocked me. I think when

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Speaker 6: I looked at the transcript, you know, eleven hundred pages thick,

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Speaker 6: Cal had it sent to me. This is of a

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Speaker 6: trial in nineteen ninety five. As Cal alluded to. The

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Speaker 6: prosecutor goes to the judge and says, Calvin Buwari black magic,

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Speaker 6: Calvin Bari is so dangerous. We need an order of protection.

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Speaker 6: The judge says, all right, you know, I mean the

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Speaker 6: judge isn't running this. It's the prosecution that's running this.

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Speaker 6: He says, okay, I don't want to be on the

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Speaker 6: front page of the New York Post if something happened.

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Speaker 6: And so that means that Cal and his attorney cannot

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Speaker 6: know who is going to testify against him until the

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Speaker 6: witness walks to the stand. Now, I mean, imagine that

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Speaker 6: kind of disadvantage, and that's legal. To your point, Jason,

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Speaker 6: there's a kind of immunity. Whether I don't think it's

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Speaker 6: in the law, but it in practice. Prosecutors are not

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Speaker 6: held to account for there. Let's give it the best,

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Speaker 6: the best interpretation. They're mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes are due

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Speaker 6: to overzealousness or refusal to look at the facts, and

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Speaker 6: it doesn't have an impact on a career, so you know, recidivism,

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Speaker 6: that's what we're talking about, right.

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Speaker 4: They are in fact immune in so many ways. There's

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Speaker 4: a things that I want to highlight. One is that

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Speaker 4: had they really believed that you murdered two people in

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Speaker 4: cold blood, there's no possibility they would have offered you

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Speaker 4: three years. That's ridiculous, right, That's just I mean that

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Speaker 4: you have you really have to suspend a lot of

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Speaker 4: layers of disbelief in order to try to give yourself

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Speaker 4: around that one. And what you were talking about is

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Speaker 4: a legal principle that was developed in England centuries ago,

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Speaker 4: which is called trial by ambush, right, which was where

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Speaker 4: they would not tell the defense anything that they were

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Speaker 4: going to say or do. Or who they were going

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Speaker 4: to bring in. Their thought was that this way they

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Speaker 4: would get to the truth because they would just use

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Speaker 4: this surprise tactic that but of course it's just patently unfair.

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Speaker 4: And now we have, you know, the Brady decision from

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Speaker 4: nineteen sixty four, in which the Supreme Court said that

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Speaker 4: prosecutors have a duty, that obligation to disclose exculpatory evidence

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Speaker 4: to the defense. But they left it up to the

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Speaker 4: prosecutors to decide what they considered to be operatory. So

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Speaker 4: they really they had it right, and then they sort

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Speaker 4: of pulled the rugout from under their own decision, which

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Speaker 4: left us in this situation where we see time and

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Speaker 4: again in New York State, it's common that they sometimes

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Speaker 4: they turn it over the day of the trial too, right,

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Speaker 4: so it's like, oh, here's the stuff, and then what

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Speaker 4: are you supposed to do? Like, you can't, you can't,

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Speaker 4: you can't examine it.

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Speaker 1: And investigate, you can't do anything. It's absolutely what you said,

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Speaker 1: it's a trial by ambush, I mean, and that's how

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Speaker 1: it was ultimately sambag and convicted. Because if you're looking

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Speaker 1: at the ambush and you're looking at the media that

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Speaker 1: was brought up against me. Then you have six individuals

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Speaker 1: that say they know me and some of them I

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Speaker 1: didn't know. Then you got a conviction. I'm not innocent,

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Speaker 1: too proven guilty. I'm guilty until I prove my innocence.

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Speaker 1: And that's absolutely what happened to me. But I also

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Speaker 1: think that Alan caeron to to touch more on that

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Speaker 1: point that Steve brought up. He was actually promoted after

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Speaker 1: all of that. He was Robert Johnson's ADA top dog

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Speaker 1: in that off and he allowed him to do whatever

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Speaker 1: he wanted to. That's why he has that attitude that

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Speaker 1: he has. Would you believe that out of four file folders,

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Speaker 1: three of those filefolders went missing in my case completely?

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Speaker 1: So you know this is the new tactic that Alan

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Speaker 1: Karon employed. He's not only gonna turn over the sculpatory evidence,

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Speaker 1: he gonna make sure that any esculpatory evidence just disappears, period.

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Speaker 1: So what do you do now when you have evidence

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Speaker 1: that they have in their possession they possibly always knew

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Speaker 1: I didn't commit the crime that you're gonna never be

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Speaker 1: able to get your hands on. There's also some type

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Speaker 1: of justice reform that needs to be done with that.

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Speaker 1: I think that there needs to be an open case

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Speaker 1: file with the defense attorney and the prosecutor. Because there

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Speaker 1: are both officers of the court, they share the same

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Speaker 1: ethical duty. It shouldn't be a disadvantage where they have

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Speaker 1: all the power. And then if you have anything that

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Speaker 1: can support your position and you'll never get it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you'll never know about it, and it is crazy.

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Speaker 4: But the fact is that, as we all know, in

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Speaker 4: a civil trial, everyone has to turn over everything and

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Speaker 4: all you're arguing about is money. In this case, they

380
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Speaker 4: were arguing about your life and that's for some reason

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Speaker 4: that's not treated with the same level of respect by

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Speaker 4: the justice system as money is, which just strikes me

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Speaker 4: as Alice in Wonderland, like completely upside down and inside out.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't make any damn sense. So back to you,

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Speaker 4: did you know after you go through this trial, they

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Speaker 4: have these witnesses, every one of which was an incentivized witness, right,

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Speaker 4: and you know, had every reason to lie. They didn't

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Speaker 4: really care about you. In some cases they wanted you

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Speaker 4: convicted because, as Robinson did, he wanted you off the

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Speaker 4: street so he could have it to himself. So, I mean,

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Speaker 4: he had multiple reasons he was getting off and he

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Speaker 4: was going into a better business situation. Yeah, because his

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Speaker 4: main competitor was going to be behind bars. So when

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Speaker 4: the jury went out, did you think you had a

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Speaker 4: snowballs chance in hell of being vindicated?

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Speaker 1: I mean, truthfully, I put them even God and at

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Speaker 1: that time, and I'm taking myself back to that time,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what was gonna happen, but I do

399
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Speaker 1: know that, you know, everything was stacked against me, everything

400
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Speaker 1: like everything.

401
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Speaker 6: Let me just add to that because Dwight Robinson, he's

402
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Speaker 6: a key, key character. He's a guy who he idolized

403
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Speaker 6: cal He's four years younger. He admires Cal and then

404
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Speaker 6: for whatever internal dynamics, he feels spurned.

405
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Speaker 2: He's hurt.

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Speaker 6: He's also at the same time really ambitious, and that

407
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Speaker 6: results in an attempted murder of cal So. Dwight Robinson

408
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Speaker 6: emerges as the central witness. He organizes the prosecution. The

409
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Speaker 6: prosecutor uses the word to me. He says, Dwight Robinson

410
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Speaker 6: was a gift. Dwight is bringing people into the prosecutor's

411
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Speaker 6: office in the back of police cruisers, so he is

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Speaker 6: not only an arm of the prosecution, he's like a

413
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Speaker 6: lieutenant of the prosecution. They can't do it without him.

414
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Speaker 6: He has just I think three months prior, tried to

415
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Speaker 6: murder cow in a week's pro three weeks prior, just

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Speaker 6: in a halle of bullets in an ambush, right, And

417
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Speaker 6: that information it's kept from the jury in this sense,

418
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Speaker 6: it's brought up. Dwight denies it on the stand. At

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Speaker 6: the same time, according to Dwight, and Dwight spent a

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Speaker 6: lot of time talking to me. According to Dwight, it's

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Speaker 6: common knowledge among the prosecutions, certainly among the cops or

422
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Speaker 6: the detectives. And at one point I said to Dwight,

423
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Speaker 6: I said, were you surprised that they let you commit

424
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Speaker 6: perjury on the stand? And he said, nah, nah, I

425
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Speaker 6: understood the game. It's dirty all around. You tell the truth,

426
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Speaker 6: you're going to lose every time. That may be the

427
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Speaker 6: most chilling thing that I heard, you know, that kind

428
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Speaker 6: of organization, that kind of organing of the prosecution.

429
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Speaker 2: In fact, that kind of by Dwight Robinson, that kind.

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Speaker 6: Of utilizing of the prosecution, becoming this collaborator of the prosecution.

431
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Speaker 6: And I think cal used the phrase trying to kill

432
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Speaker 6: cow by other means. He failed with bullets, So now

433
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Speaker 6: he teams up in the prosecution. And by the way,

434
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Speaker 6: Dwight admits that he says, yeah, I wanted to get

435
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Speaker 6: Cal off the street, and I saw this opportunity. So

436
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Speaker 6: Cal has to spend the next two decades of his

437
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 6: life proving the Dwight Robinson, this guy once idolized him.

438
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:35,959
Speaker 2: Is a liar.

439
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 6: And that's I mean, that's a drama that shouldn't be

440
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 6: imposed on to anybody.

441
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 2: But it is an amazing drama to follow.

442
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 4: And let's get to that because that's one of the

443
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 4: more interesting aspects of this case, I think, is that

444
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 4: you end up being convicted. Yes, you were sentenced to

445
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 4: fifty years of life, fifty the life, right, so that's

446
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 4: pretty much game over. But he didn't give up. It

447
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 4: would have been pretty easy to give up that point,

448
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, you have now seen the justice

449
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 4: system at its worst, and you know what they're capable of.

450
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 4: You know that they're they're hiding stuff, they're bringing on witnesses.

451
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: I was cooperating with his sentence to lie.

452
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 4: And the most nefarious characters they're bringing onto the stand,

453
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 4: like Robinson, right, who they knew was a bad guy, right,

454
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 4: but they didn't care. So you know what they're capable

455
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 4: of you know, how steep of a hill you've got

456
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 4: to climb now, because it just got one hundred times

457
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 4: harder because now you're behind bars and you're looking at

458
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 4: fifty to life. And then things get really interesting all

459
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 4: of a sudden when you get a letter in the mail, right.

460
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've received a foot from Dwight Robinson.

461
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, eight years after his conviction.

462
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 4: And where were you serving at this point?

463
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 1: I was an upstate correctional facility at that.

464
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 4: Time, maximum security, yes, right.

465
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: And when he wrote me, he started explaining, like I've

466
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: seen them remorse in them, because you know, one of

467
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 1: the things that or jumped out with me is the

468
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: fact that he started saying, you know, Cal, I'm on

469
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: the inside looking out now. You know, I know your

470
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 1: hand and called for this, and you know, I started

471
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: to sense some type of remorse, you know, when it

472
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: started from.

473
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 4: There to wait, he was in prison writing to you.

474
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 6: Yes, he had been convicted of a different murder under

475
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 6: very remarkably similar circumstances. But so Dwight's doing twenty five

476
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 6: to life.

477
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 4: Right, And let's just point out for a second that

478
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 4: that murder didn't ever really have to happen. If they

479
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 4: would have just arrested him when they should have in

480
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 4: the first place. He wouldn't have been free to go

481
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 4: kill whoever it was if he killed. But okay, so

482
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 4: let's just put that on the side for a second. Right,

483
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 4: So you're here in this maximum security prison. First of all,

484
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 4: is it as bad as it sounds?

485
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 1: I mean yes, I mean, especially at that time, in

486
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: that era, it was a whole lot of I mean,

487
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: if you look at right, because Alan and Upstate in

488
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: the early nineties, that's when they started to have the

489
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: most cutting, stabbings and all that type of stuff. So,

490
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: I mean, jail is just not a place for nobody.

491
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 6: To me, I always wondered, cal you know, you're sentenced

492
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 6: to fifty years to life for crimes you didn't do.

493
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 2: I mean, you have to be angry, And I mean

494
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: it's true.

495
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: Oh I was, and I think that I had misdirected

496
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: anger in the beginning and that's what allowed me to

497
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: end up in the box. But also being afraid, you

498
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I was in an environment that

499
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: I felt like you couldn't show no weakness, and if

500
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: you did, I seen individuals getting raped, stabbed and all

501
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: types of stuff too. So that's what kind of like

502
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: I had misdirected anger. So you know, I was doing

503
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: what the Romans do while and wrong, you know.

504
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you had almost nothing to lose if

505
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 4: they could throw you in the prison within the prison,

506
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 4: which is the box, right, But other than that, you

507
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 4: can to spend the rest of your life in there anyway.

508
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 4: So how did you turn that around? Because obviously you

509
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 4: found a different year, right, had you already gone through

510
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 4: that shift when this letter arrived in the mail, because

511
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 4: that's a big moment when that letter gets there, right.

512
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had already went through the shift that point.

513
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: I'm an introvert, so naturally the box was kind of

514
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: like a good place for me, you know what I'm saying.

515
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: Not only was I alright with myself, that I noticed

516
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: that a lot of other individuals they couldn't live with

517
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 1: themselves inside of prison. And that's why a lot of

518
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: people do a lot of things that they do. They

519
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: want to stay on the gate, they want to get high,

520
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: they want to get into fights. Because you know, I

521
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: do mine as a devil's playground. So that's what I

522
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: kind of grew at when I was in solitary confinement.

523
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: This book by James Allen called as a Man Think.

524
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: If I read that book, it was a simplistic book

525
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: to me. However, it kind of like related to me

526
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: so well because it made me look at the glass

527
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,719
Speaker 1: half full of instead of half empty, you know, and

528
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: it allowed me to even look at and messed up

529
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: situations the good out of it. Even though I have

530
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: fifty years the life, I knew a lot of individuals

531
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: that were in the grave, and I still felt like

532
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: I was alive. So I'm blessed regardless. And that's the

533
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: mindset that I got into once I read that book,

534
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: and once I started with that positive energy, that's what

535
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: really gave me the sensified because at a time I

536
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: started to beat myself up to the point of saying,

537
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: you know, I was a drug dealer. Maybe I belong

538
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: in jail, because in the beginning, that's what I was

539
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 1: telling about myself. You know, I never got locked up

540
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: for selling drugs, so maybe this was a recompense for

541
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: my actions. And once I got into the positive mind frame,

542
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: it made me throw that away and say, you know,

543
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: I'm in here for somebody didn't do. If I was

544
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: here for drugs, it'll be all right. I did the crime.

545
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: I'll do the time, but I'm in here for a

546
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: double homicide I did not commit. And I just started

547
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: getting into the books, legal books, started reading up on IM,

548
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: started contacting a lot of attorneys, a lot of investigators.

549
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: The Innocent Project was one of the main ones. I

550
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: was in correspondence with Barry Shek, with Vanessa Pokin, Nina Morrison,

551
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: and a couple of others in an Innocent Project office.

552
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: But at the time, even though they were corresponding with me,

553
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: they were not taking cases that did not have DNA

554
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: evidence at the time, So you know, they were leading

555
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: me to other law firms that were taking pro bono

556
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: cases that dealt with wrongful convictions that did not have

557
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: DNA evidence. At that point, is like the gears shifted

558
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: for me. And once I started to dig into my case.

559
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: I'm a very determined and resilient person. Once I put

560
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: my mind in something, i won't stop until I feel

561
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna get it done. I'm not gonna hear

562
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: no for a answer, and I'm gonna keep pushing until

563
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: i can't push no more.

564
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: I met cal after he found that book, and that's

565
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: a book that came out in like nineteen oh three,

566
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: something that's by a British guy.

567
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 6: It's not a Col's world, but if you read it,

568
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 6: what it says essentially is you can create your own

569
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 6: reality by controlling your thoughts. And Cal probably the most

570
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 6: disciplined person I've ever met in terms of thinking positive,

571
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 6: and he had enormous setbacks. It is not only does

572
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 6: he get that letter, but imagine Dwight is in one prison,

573
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 6: Cal is in another prison, and they are suddenly put together.

574
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 6: They suddenly come together at.

575
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: Which Clinton Correctional Clinton.

576
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 6: Correctional Institution, and they meet in the yard. So there's

577
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 6: this guy who has maybe has been put away for something,

578
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 6: and then there's this other guy who says, you know,

579
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 6: I testified you and I shouldn't have, and I mean

580
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 6: tell about that meeting.

581
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: What made me more comfortable is the fact that I

582
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: received that letter that he confessed to the crime right

583
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: before I actually met him, because I don't think that

584
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: I possibly would have went to the yard to meet

585
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: him when he wanted to meet me. But I have

586
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: received the confession letter, and I seen him in the

587
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: mess hall and he told me to come to the yard,

588
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: and I really wanted to hear what he had to

589
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: say outside of the fact that he was now saying that,

590
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: you know, he committed the crime. And when I talked

591
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: to him, I felt contrition. He started crying and he

592
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: said the same thing. I'm on the side looking out.

593
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: I want to do the right thing to get you

594
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: off because you went here for something you ain't do.

595
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: And we just started talking and I just wanted to

596
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: get certain answers from him on why he did what

597
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: he did, and you know, that's what we talked about.

598
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 6: I mean, so if you can imagine Dwight actually confesses

599
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 6: to a double murder that Cal's convicted for in this

600
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 6: prison yard, and then what happens is on the basis

601
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 6: of that, on the strength of that, Cal actually gets

602
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 6: a four forty hearing. So now he's back in court

603
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 6: and there's somebody else who's confessed to this crime. I mean,

604
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 6: Cal has to believe he's going home.

605
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: Except that on Frank Vigiano and Detective John Wall they

606
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: were very ambitious for the DA and they were not

607
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: going to allow that to happen because, like I said,

608
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: there was a witch hunt out for me and Alan

609
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: Caroon was at the driving seat of that vehicle and

610
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: they worked over time to make sure that Dwight Robinson

611
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: took back that confession.

612
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 4: Right, Which is another crazy aspect of this case, because

613
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 4: you probably were thinking, well, okay, that's where this thing's

614
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 4: winding down. Now you got a written confession, he confessed

615
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 4: to you verbally in writing, and he's coming to court

616
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 4: to the lawyer, and that should be This was two

617
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 4: thousand and three, right, Yes, yeah, so two thousand and three,

618
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 4: you've been in for ten years already, maybe eleven, and

619
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 4: you're going to court. And did you think when you

620
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 4: went to court for that hearing that you were going home? Yes?

621
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: I really did? You know?

622
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 4: It sounded like it to me.

623
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, the next best thing the DNA is a confession,

624
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: you understand, And that's what I thought until he came

625
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: in and you know, he got understand and he started

626
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: doing what he'd do best. He started lying, So so.

627
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 6: You didn't know until he got on the stand that

628
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 6: he was going to take back his condition.

629
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 1: I think we did find out that he did take

630
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: it back. But to me, when I said I seen

631
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: him and how I felt with the meeting when I

632
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 1: met him, I didn't. I felt like probably the DA

633
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: or the detectives were pressuring them like they did. But

634
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: I felt like, still, he'll probably come to court and

635
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: tell the truth, you understand, But he didn't.

636
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 4: It's it's a remarkable plot twist, and then your case

637
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 4: falls apart, right, I mean, he recants his recantation, right,

638
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 4: so he's reversed himself again. Now his credibility is really

639
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 4: out the window, right, because he's hard to tell when

640
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 4: somebody is lying when they're oh, when you know, when

641
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 4: they keep changing their story. I assume that they switched

642
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 4: him to a different prison at this point. Did you

643
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 4: have to go back to the same prison together after this?

644
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: No, before we even went to court, he had left

645
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: the facility that we were I think immediately after the

646
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: confession he left. And you know what's so funny about that?

647
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, but it just seemed like a

648
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: conspiracy too, because that naturally doesn't happen where they put

649
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: individuals that testify against you with the god, you know,

650
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: that type of stuff. It does just seem kind of

651
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 1: funny that they did that, you know, like they really

652
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: wanted me to really bury myself your father, you know,

653
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: I think about that all the time.

654
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 4: These dirty tricks are just I just don't I really

655
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 4: don't understand that. As we skip ahead, there were other recantations,

656
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 4: There were twists and turns. Then twenty fifteen comes. Two

657
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 4: decades have passed, even behind bars, and now things finally

658
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 4: take a turn for the better. You've had Steve what's

659
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 4: here with us now? Who's been investigating your case diligently

660
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 4: fighting for you. You have the Innocence Project helping you.

661
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 4: You have pro bono attorneys who have taken your case.

662
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: Myron Bell Duck, the greatest lawyer and the planet Earth

663
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: that ever woke this planet Earth.

664
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 4: Yea, his name is gold. So you got Myron. I mean,

665
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 4: you went from having the odds really stacked against you.

666
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 4: And it's a credit to you, by the way, because

667
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 4: it would have been really easy for you to just fold.

668
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 4: But instead, somehow or other, from inside this darkest place,

669
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 4: you managed to enlist literally the dream team behind you.

670
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

671
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 4: So twenty fifteen comes. What happens.

672
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 1: I had the investigator working on a case, and he

673
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: actually was able to get some new leads. And once

674
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: the new leads came out with the two sisters that

675
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: were actually like about ten to fifteen feet away from

676
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: the crime when it happened, they lived right where the

677
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: crime happened at and they actually seen Dwight.

678
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 4: Due to crime, there's a plot twist, no, I mean,

679
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 4: and we've seen that again and again too, where the

680
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 4: witness is the actual killer and there's an incentive to

681
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 4: lie right Once.

682
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: Once I got that information, I think I was in

683
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: touch with more in Tankliff at the time. I was

684
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: also in contact with Jabal Collins, who was working for

685
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: Joe Rudin. I really wanted Joe Rudin as my attorney

686
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: at the time, but I wrote Myron Bell doc, the

687
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: great Mayron Bell Doc, you know, who actually represented Hurricane

688
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: Carter and a whole lot of other people. And when

689
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: I wrote to him, he gave me his number so

690
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: I could call him and talk to him. And from

691
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: the initial start, man, I just loved this guy. He

692
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: treated me like family. He showed that I mattered, and

693
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: I don't think that at that point, I never had

694
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: an older male figure in my life that actually genuinely was,

695
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 1: you know, acted concerned for me or my well being.

696
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: And he was actually going for a surgery at the time,

697
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: and he didn't even know if he was would have

698
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: been able to take the case. And it was so

699
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: funny that. You know, I initially wanted Joe rudin so bad,

700
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: but you know, Joe Ruden wanted his money. You know,

701
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: he didn't care about nothing, no innocence or any of that.

702
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: He wanted his money. But the funny thing was, Myron

703
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: had told me that if I take the case, if

704
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: you could get somebody to assist me, then I'll feel

705
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 1: better because I'm getting ready to go through the surgery.

706
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: So I contacted Joel at that time, and once I

707
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,959
Speaker 1: once he found out that Myron Belldock was on the case,

708
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: he was willing to jump on board now, so that

709
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: was kind of ironic. That's the first time that he

710
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: ever stayed on the phone with me for an hour,

711
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:36,919
Speaker 1: you know. And actually Myron started to get better, he

712
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 1: started to heal better. And once I told him that,

713
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, Joe Ruden would be willing to co counsel

714
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: with him, he said, don't worry about we don't need

715
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: him no more. I'll be all right. I got I

716
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: got it, you know what I mean. And you know

717
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: that's how Myron was and I had right after the surgery,

718
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: and it was very touching for me. I had called

719
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: him in the office. I don't know as it was

720
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: like eight pm, and I thought he was being home

721
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: reco helling up. Myron was still in the office working,

722
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: And here it is this man. He's almost eighty years old.

723
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: And you know that meant a lot to me because

724
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: I never had attorney to that point that I felt

725
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: like was given my case. There all you understand here

726
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: it is I had the best of the best when

727
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: it came to the attorney and I'm calling him now

728
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: and he's on my case. You understand that he should

729
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: have been home recuperating. I just never met a guy

730
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: like that, you know, amazing guy.

731
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 6: You know I spent a little time with Myron. Cal

732
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 6: actually never met Myron. Didn't have that good fortune. But Myron,

733
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 6: I don't think he's too much to say. He came

734
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 6: off his deathbed to really represent Cal. He had prostate cancer,

735
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 6: he had heart problems. He when I met him, he

736
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 6: had a tumor behind his eye, so his left eye

737
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,439
Speaker 6: actually bulged. He'd looked at you, but that left eye

738
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 6: kind of veered off to the to the left at

739
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 6: a forty five degree angle. It was very disorienting. He's

740
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 6: five years old, and he says, this could be my

741
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 6: last crusade. And I say to Myron, you're you know,

742
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 6: you're either a fool or a hero. And his response is,

743
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 6: I think this case is going to make me live

744
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 6: five years longer. So myrone is that's where he gets

745
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 6: his adrenaline from. And of course the tragedy is that

746
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 6: it doesn't make Myron live five years longer. And Cal

747
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 6: gets that. I guess you hear a rumor in prison

748
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 6: and then you call me and I have to confirm

749
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 6: it for call. And you know, Cal is a extremely strong,

750
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 6: mentally disciplined, emotionally disciplined person. And by the way, physically

751
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 6: he can do one hundred push ups without stopping, so

752
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 6: you know, he's been in prison twenty years. He knows

753
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 6: his way around physical challenges, emotional challenges. And I confirm

754
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 6: that Myron's dead, and you know, for Cal, and I mean, imagine,

755
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 6: this is the guy, his savior, his savior now has died,

756
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 6: has passed it.

757
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: And that was like the most crushing blow ever that

758
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: I ever felt, because I literally felt comfortable with my

759
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: life ind Myron hands. You know, I want you to understand,

760
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: I literally felt like that. I never felt like that

761
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: with nobody, you understand, So when I lost him, It's

762
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: like I didn't know where to go after that, Like

763
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: I finally got the person that was the best of

764
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: the best that I loved him outside of him being

765
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: my lawyer, you understand, I loved him as a person,

766
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:42,439
Speaker 1: and when I lost him, I just didn't know how

767
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: to take that, you know, because it was like I

768
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: just came just so far and to be able to

769
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: get the guy to believe in me, you know, it

770
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: was just I just I couldn't help it. I've just

771
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 1: broke down and I was in the yard and that

772
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: really broke me down.

773
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 6: And you broke down on the phone with me. You

774
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 6: called me back, and actually I'd never heard that kind

775
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 6: of emotion.

776
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: I mean you could you couldn't speak exterially.

777
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: A person is not going to be able to read

778
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: my emotions and my feelings because in jail, I felt

779
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: like I couldn't show no weakness. That's how it was

780
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: in prison. If you showed like the people in prison,

781
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: there's a lot of predators in there, and if they

782
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: sense any type of fear, that's when they're coming for you.

783
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: That's just how it is. It's no other way. It's

784
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,240
Speaker 1: a savage life in prison. I love this guy, Myron

785
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 1: Belldoc so much that I couldn't help but to break down,

786
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 1: you understand. And I was in the yard with hundreds

787
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: of men, you understand, And that would be the last

788
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: place that I would want to break down, because here

789
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: I am with all of the wolves and stuff like that,

790
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: and I'm in the middle of that, and I'm breaking down.

791
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 1: So I was overcome by emotions when I lost mym and.

792
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 6: Actually I remember you you shouted your shoulder. I just

793
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 6: had a loss in the family, had a lost in

794
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 6: the family, so that nobody with exactly.

795
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: Also, Myron is the one that gave me the tenacity

796
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: and the fortitude in order to push on. When I

797
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: took you to the incident when Myron was working on

798
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: my case at eight PM, and I started to read

799
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: up on everything about Myron. You know, Myron was a

800
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: guy that just didn't give up, period, you know. And

801
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 1: I put his pictures up and like a mural of

802
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: Myron and the cell that I was in, and his

803
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: spirit just came to me, like you gotta keep pushing,

804
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 1: don't give up, be a fighter. And Myron actually fought

805
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: for my life while he was fighting for his own.

806
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: So I wasn't gonna get in a situation. Okay, now

807
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: I lost my top guy and just lay down and

808
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: just because that's something that I felt that he would

809
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: never do, so he kind of like put the tenat

810
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: and me to just continue to fight.

811
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 4: Cal, can you just take us through how you were

812
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 4: able to get your conviction reversed.

813
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: When I went to the supply my arm second four

814
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: forty and they entertained the evidence that substantiated that Dwight

815
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: Robinson actually committed a crime with the Clark sisters.

816
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 6: Just to expand briefly, it's a dramatic moment. And Cal

817
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 6: had always said, you know, there were a lot of

818
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 6: people there that night, the night of the shooting, and

819
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 6: the scene had never been canvas. Well, you know, the

820
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 6: cops did go door to door and they knock on

821
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 6: the door of the Clark sisters, kimber Leah and Nikiah Clark,

822
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 6: and they don't want to get involved. These are the

823
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 6: two eyewitnesses to the crime, to the murder. But the

824
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 6: older sister says, no, we heard shots, that's it, and

825
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 6: that's what's in the police report.

826
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 2: And why.

827
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 6: Well, years later I asked them they didn't want it

828
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 6: was a block full of drugs and murder, they're not

829
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 6: going to come farar. Two decades later, through a series

830
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 6: of circumstances, they resurface. They're in North Carolina, and now

831
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 6: they find out that cow was convicted. They didn't know

832
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 6: that they had moved away like a year or so

833
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 6: after the murders. They find out, and their kind of heartbroken,

834
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 6: and frankly, the younger one, who is the one on

835
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 6: the street twenty feet away, she feels guilty. She feels

836
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 6: guilty that she hasn't come forward and that this man,

837
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 6: Calvin Buari, is in prison for something she knows he

838
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 6: didn't do. So there's this dramatic moment when they walk

839
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 6: into court, and particularly the younger one walks into court

840
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 6: and I remember the assistant prosecutor tried to pick.

841
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 2: Her apart and rattle her.

842
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 6: Okay, it's the DA's job, and she is fiery. She's

843
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:55,479
Speaker 6: got this nickname Evelina because when she gets challenged and pushed,

844
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 6: there's this kind of fierce character that lives inside of

845
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 6: her that comes out out on the stand.

846
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: And thank God for that.

847
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 2: And there's this.

848
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 6: Moment because we have the whole courtroom micd and we

849
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 6: have a mic right up near the witness stand and

850
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 6: you can't hear it in the courtroom, but we picked

851
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 6: up where the it'sistant district attorney is really prodding her,

852
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 6: and under her breath, eviliness.

853
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: Says that bit.

854
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 6: And then she returns fire and you know she doesn't

855
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 6: give and she says, you know, I saw who did

856
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 6: it and it wasn't Calvin barn There you go.

857
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I wanted to spend on that too, And

858
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: you know that was so grateful for me too, because

859
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: I always knew that after my first initial four forty

860
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: when the witnesses that actually came back who lied that

861
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: were criminals. You know, I knew what type of games

862
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: that these prosecutors play with the detectives. And I was

863
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: always adamant on Steve, listen, I want these witnesses this

864
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: time to have attorneys like I was not going to

865
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: allow what happened to me previously happened to me again.

866
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: But it was it was overwhelming that the personality in

867
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: the spirit of this witness, because that is the very

868
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: type of witness that I needed to stand up against

869
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: these type of tactics, you understand, And I just want

870
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: to say too, man, when you when you believe in

871
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,280
Speaker 1: something stand for it. If you feel something is wrong,

872
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: stand for it. And I'm happy that she stood. She

873
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 1: stood up and she stood firm.

874
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, and the cops did go to her. She was unfortunately,

875
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 6: she was in a shelter for abused women and the

876
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 6: cops showed up, and that caused a lot of problems

877
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 6: in her in her life. But you know, Cal was

878
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 6: also fortunate. He got another attorney warrior, a guy named

879
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 6: Oscar Mitchellan who really in that courtroom I think helped

880
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 6: her tell her story and beat back the assistant DA

881
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 6: when she tried to replay the nineteen nineties and said

882
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 6: Cal's a bad dude. He was a drug dealer who

883
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 6: strolled around and been cut. But you know it was true.

884
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 6: That's not what he was on trial for. He wasn't

885
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 6: on trial for being a wealthy drug dealer. And it

886
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 6: was Michellan who pointed it out. And Nikki who gets

887
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 6: on the stand and fires back.

888
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 2: Who is the real killer?

889
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 6: Who is the person who did the grind for Rich

890
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 6: Coal's servant time the.

891
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: Tactics were utilized on the key and KIMBERLEA Clark, she

892
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: was in the shelter at the time, and when you

893
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: were in a shelter, you need some place to stay.

894
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: They went there and made it seem as though she

895
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: was being looked into for a double homicide. You know

896
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. And these are the tactics that these

897
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: guys employed to make, you know, life hell for a

898
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 1: person that just want to fail the truth, you understand.

899
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: And she got kicked out of the shelter. She got

900
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,479
Speaker 1: into an abusive relationship after I But like I said,

901
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: I was so proud they had a personality that she

902
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: stud up because normally with you know, average people, they're

903
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,479
Speaker 1: not going to want to be bothered period. They're gonna

904
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: care more about their personal situation than wanting to help

905
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: somebody else that you know, Okay, I want to help them,

906
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: but I don't want to go through the headaches that

907
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: I'm going through in my personal life. Let me leave

908
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: that alone. That's what the person doing. And I'm so

909
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 1: proud that this woman stood up.

910
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, what's the question you hear today, what's

911
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 6: the upside for me?

912
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 2: There's no upside for her, but.

913
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 4: Oh John, she stood up.

914
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

915
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 4: We end up two thousand and seventeen in Bronx State

916
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 4: Supreme Court. Yes, and that's the day you had been

917
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 4: waiting for since the early nineties. Absolutely, and tell me

918
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 4: about that. Can you take us back to that day.

919
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: When the judge vacated the conviction. I had my Ron

920
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: picture in front of me. I had an actual Innocent

921
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: magazine that came out on time. And before that, the

922
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: White Robinson was supposed to come in. They couldn't produce

923
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: the White Robinson. And then when I went back to court,

924
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: I just kept my eyes and myself fixated on in

925
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: God we trust. And like I said, I'm a firm

926
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: believer in God, so that is my number one attorney,

927
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: and I believe that the right thing was going to

928
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: be done. And actually that's what happened and.

929
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 4: That moment, so it was Judge Eugene Oliver Jor And

930
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 4: we're talking about State Supreme Court. This is a big deal, right,

931
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 4: I mean, And how did that feel? After decades of

932
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 4: fighting and trying to get people to listen, to have

933
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 4: a man in that position vacate your conviction.

934
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: It didn't really hit me at first. I think when

935
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: I went back to the bullpen, then it really really

936
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: like really just started to sink in. Like I made it,

937
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: you know, I made it. But yeah, I'm going home,

938
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: and I got hit with another hurdle I was I

939
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: had to go back to the facility that I was

940
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,240
Speaker 1: in and stay for the weekend. And those two days

941
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: were the longest two days than the twenty two years

942
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 1: that I did in prison, because I didn't sleep and

943
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: it was just elate, and I really felt kind of

944
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: nervous because you know, you get a lot of hateration

945
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: in prison, and I was kind of surprised that the

946
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: people actually were more happy than upset. Yeah. So then

947
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: I got the day where I came home, which was

948
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 1: May eighth, which is tomorrow. That's my second birthday, my rebirthday,

949
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: and it was sur real. I'm still looking at it.

950
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: And the nice day that we had a couple days ago,

951
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 1: I stayed out till I think four in the morning,

952
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 1: just enjoying the breeze. When I first came home, my

953
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: goal wasn't just to come home. My goal was to

954
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: come home and also build a legitimate entrepreneurial life for myself.

955
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: So I had goals out of side of just coming home,

956
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: you understand. So even to this day, I'm still enjoying

957
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,720
Speaker 1: the little things and it's just still hit me because

958
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: I ain't give myself a chance to breathe, you know, no,

959
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:30,760
Speaker 1: And let's talk.

960
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 4: About that because three hundred and sixty four days as

961
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,800
Speaker 4: recording this podcast, as we're sitting here now, you haven't

962
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 4: even been out a year, and what you've got going

963
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 4: on is going to make a lot of people feel like, Wow,

964
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 4: this is crazy. I mean, you've got multiple businesses that

965
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 4: you started, right.

966
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: Yes, I have a van company that goes to prisons's

967
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: number one van company by the way, you know in

968
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,879
Speaker 1: New York State, where I had started a new concept

969
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 1: that I felt like when I was in prison, a

970
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,240
Speaker 1: lot of my family members came to visit me, and

971
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: a lot of the van service they had the old

972
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 1: Yankee vans and they wasn't clean, and they were decrepit,

973
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: and you know, regardless of what their family members wanted

974
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 1: to see their loved ones that weren't concerrated. So they

975
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: dealt with it. And I felt like our family members

976
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: deserved the same quality service that a regular civilian to

977
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 1: get out in the street. So I started the concept

978
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: of the uber like prison visit services called Riders. Van

979
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: Service is spelled ry d e r Z Van Service

980
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: and my numbers eight four five two O four five

981
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 1: nine three zero.

982
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 4: And you service how many prisons in New York State?

983
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: I serviced the Downstate area. Right now, I'm serving ten facilities.

984
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: I'm going to Downstate sing Sing, she Wonga, Sullivan, Walkkill, Woodburn,

985
00:54:54,880 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 1: green Haven, what else the majorities of the facility that

986
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: are close to New York At the present time, I'm

987
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 1: moving out further. We're supposed to be getting a bigger

988
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: bus to go to Elmira, Comstock or Burned and a

989
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,399
Speaker 1: further facilities up where I'm in the process of doing

990
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: that as I speak, and things are picking up. We're

991
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: doing it with the van service for the prisons to

992
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: show you know how important implementing family ties are, because

993
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 1: they had done statistics that shows that individuals when they're

994
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: incarcerated and they loved ones check for them, they have

995
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,399
Speaker 1: a lower rate of reciticism when they come home. And

996
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: I also plan to have a van go to the

997
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: female facility and Beacon. I think that is for free,

998
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 1: and I want to be able to give back to

999
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: the female facilities because I feel like they don't get

1000
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 1: as much visits as the males do and they have

1001
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: kids and stuff like that, so things are probably much

1002
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: harder and I want to be able to put it

1003
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,800
Speaker 1: in rotation. Where's that I could go through the whole

1004
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 1: facility female facility and give each one of them female

1005
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: females a visit. But I want to find a social worker.

1006
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: It's a mediary just in case they need somebody to

1007
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,879
Speaker 1: transport their kids to be able to go see their

1008
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 1: loved ones, because I know that may be a barrier

1009
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 1: as well because of the age of the child and

1010
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But that's another way that I plan

1011
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: to give back.

1012
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 4: So you got the service, which is it's great there

1013
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 4: you are doing good while you're doing good and really

1014
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 4: making life better for those people who are able to

1015
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 4: now visit their loved ones that wouldn't be able to otherwise.

1016
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 4: And we know what a difference that makes to people

1017
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 4: on the inside.

1018
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: I think that one of the main reasons that I

1019
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: wanted to do that business is because I never wanted

1020
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: to allow myself to forget about where I came from,

1021
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: and by not forgetting that will constantly keep me away

1022
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 1: from doing anything that will put me back in that place.

1023
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: So I want to constantly be reminded of that, and

1024
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: that's how I do it.

1025
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, I think your future looks really bright. I mean,

1026
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 4: you are obviously a very smart and capable and entrepreneurial guy,

1027
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 4: and you know, reapplying your skills and the way that

1028
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 4: you are is extremely admirable, and I know you're going

1029
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 4: to be a big success, and I mean, I'm looking

1030
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 4: forward to watching you. I know we were speaking earlier,

1031
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 4: we were talking about some innocent people that you left behind,

1032
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 4: and I want to try to bring attention to those cases.

1033
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 4: And it's entirely possible that by highlighting these innocent people

1034
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 4: that you left behind that you care so much about,

1035
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 4: we may be able to affect some change in their cases.

1036
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 4: So do you want to just talk about that briefly.

1037
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 1: I'll start off with some of the brothers that I

1038
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 1: know about case that I've just left in green Haven,

1039
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: that we were actually working on our cases together. That's

1040
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: why I'm so much familiar with their facts. You've got

1041
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: a guy named Nelson Cruz that's currently in green Haven

1042
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: who was actually in a and they did a New

1043
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: York Times article on him. He was actually caught up

1044
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: in the Lewis scar Seller situation and he just recently

1045
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: got denied on his full forty and I believe in

1046
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: his innocence. There's another guy named Paul Clark that actually

1047
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: has almost forty years in that was arrested by the

1048
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: mafia cops. So Paul Clark is one. He's currently at

1049
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 1: green Haven facility. And you know, you have another young

1050
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: brother that I met named Kyrie Frye who's also at

1051
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: green Haven and Anthony Reid. But just recently me and

1052
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:39,520
Speaker 1: Meek Mills was in correspondence with each other and he

1053
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 1: just sent me the information of a person that he

1054
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 1: was inconcerated within Chester at the time. This brother has

1055
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 1: in twenty six years in prison and the only reason

1056
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 1: that he's currently there. His name is Eric Riddick. You

1057
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: can look up Eric Ridick. He's in Pennsylvania and Chester,

1058
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: PA and the penitentiary. And this brother is actually innocent,

1059
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 1: and the only reason he's still in conserrated is because

1060
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: a procedural situation whereas that you have to have evidence

1061
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 1: in at a certain time, and if you don't have

1062
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: actual innocent evidence. By the way, you know, he has

1063
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: evidence that proves his innocent, and he has expert evidence

1064
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: that proves his innocence. It's just appalling that he's still

1065
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: in prison after twenty six years and this brother needs

1066
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: to be free.

1067
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 4: So we will post the names of all those individuals

1068
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 4: that Cal just highlighted on the website. Get involved and

1069
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 4: maybe we can together help some of these people get justice.

1070
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 4: So we have a tradition here on wrongful Conviction, which

1071
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 4: is that at the end of the show, I like

1072
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 4: to turn the microphone over to you. I do what

1073
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 4: I don't do very well, which is that I stopped

1074
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 4: talking and just let you share any final thoughts that

1075
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 4: you have, and Steve, I'm going to start with you

1076
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 4: so that we can have Cal be our cleanup hitter here.

1077
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 4: So Steve Fishman, any final thoughts.

1078
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 2: Well, first off, thanks for having me.

1079
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 6: It's an incredibly important issue and I spent a lot

1080
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 6: of time on it, actually sometimes bit against my will,

1081
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 6: but you know, Cal being relentless whichever I could never

1082
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 6: say no, even if I wasn't always saying yes. But

1083
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 6: Empire on Blood was really a work of passion and

1084
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 6: it tells Cal's story, and I think what you get

1085
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 6: from it that you don't often get is you you

1086
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 6: get the thinking and the thoughts and feelings of the

1087
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 6: prosecutor of Dwight Robinson, who not convicted but Stan's accused

1088
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 6: by eyewitness of having done this murder of the detective

1089
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 6: who talked Dwight Robinson out of his confession. So you

1090
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 6: really end up with a sense of the criminal justice system.

1091
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 6: And I guess the last thing I'd say is, you know, yeah,

1092
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 6: I kind of took a journey with Cal and sometimes

1093
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 6: I'm giving some credit for having pushed his case forward,

1094
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 6: but you know, really all credit to Cal. I just

1095
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 6: think the kind of discipline and persistence in the face

1096
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 6: of enormous disappointment that would have not only disheartened people,

1097
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 6: but I think broken most people. I couldn't have persisted.

1098
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 6: I mean, that kind of instinct and ability is very

1099
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 6: very rare, whether you're talking to people on the outside

1100
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 6: or people on the inside. So you know, all credit

1101
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 6: to Cal for realizing is the beginning of his future.

1102
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 4: And now over to you, Calvin Bari, what do you

1103
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 4: got for us?

1104
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I want to thank Steve for saying that,

1105
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: because that means a lot to me because he didn't

1106
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: have to get involved with my case but my diligence

1107
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 1: and I think that, you know, he still he wanted

1108
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: to do the right thing, and it's good that we

1109
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 1: have people like that. Whether you're a stranger or a

1110
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: friend or not. It's just that I feel like people

1111
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: are waking up and they want the right things to

1112
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 1: be done. I think that my last words is going

1113
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 1: to be like what Meek Mill said, It's all about

1114
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: justice reform so these type of things don't happen to

1115
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 1: other individuals. I hope that I'm an example to the

1116
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: people that these things do occur, and we just have

1117
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: to do something so they won't reoccur again. That's basically

1118
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 1: what I have to say.

1119
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 4: Well, now I just want to thank the audience for

1120
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 4: tuning in and listening. This has been an amazing journey,

1121
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 4: and thanks again to Steve Fishman and Calaboari for being

1122
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 4: a part of the show.

1123
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: Thank you Jason.

1124
01:02:53,640 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 4: Thank you Jason, don't forget to give us a fantastic review.

1125
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 4: Wherever you get your podcasts, it really helps. And I'm

1126
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 4: a proud donor to the Enniscence Project, and I really

1127
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 4: hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause

1128
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 4: and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocenceproject

1129
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 4: dot org to learn how to donate and get involved.

1130
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 4: I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and

1131
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 4: Kevin wartis. The music in the show is by three

1132
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 4: time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow

1133
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 4: us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at

1134
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 4: Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flahm is a

1135
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 4: production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal

1136
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 4: Company Number one