1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: and Sager. We're gonna be totally upfront with you. We 3 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: took a big risk going independent to make this work. 4 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: We need your support to beat the corporate media CNN, Fox, MSNBC. 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: They are ripping this country apart. They are making millions 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: of dollars doing it. To help support our mission of 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: making all of us hate each other, less hate the 8 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: corrupt ruling class more support the show. 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Now for our 18 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: weekly partnership segment with the Daily Poster is Julia Rock. 19 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: She is a journalist for The Daily Poster. Guys, are 20 00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: changing your name? I don't know if you've changed it yet, 21 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: are you the lever? We I don't know, not yet. 22 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: It'll be the lever the lever, so, oh, okay, lever. 23 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: I think lever is probably better too. That's our that's 24 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: our vote in that direction. So you have been causing 25 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: a lot of trouble. I want to full disclosure that line. 26 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: So we recorded a segment with you about someone who 27 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: was fighting to have their student debt discharge in court, 28 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: and the Biden administration was fighting them on this, which 29 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: is contrary to the pledges that they made on the 30 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: campaign trail. But your reporting was so important that once 31 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: this was revealed, the Biden administration seemed to cave. But 32 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: that wasn't the end of the story. So let's put 33 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: your latest story here up on the screen. Despite pledged, 34 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: Biden still fighting student debtors in court. Your subhead there 35 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: says after public outcry, the administration backed off one bankruptcy 36 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: case but is fighting many others despite the president's campaign promise. 37 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: Just bring us up to speed, Julia, with where we 38 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: are now in this fight. Yeah, absolutely, so. I want 39 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: to clarify one thing. There are about a few dozen 40 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: cases where folks have tried to have their student debt 41 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: discharged in bankruptcy court that the Biden administration is fighting. 42 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: The case that we originally reported on and they backed 43 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: off of was one where the student debtor had actually 44 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: won in bankruptcy court and the Biden administration appealed the victory. 45 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 1: So after we reported on that, the Biden administration took 46 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: out their appeal. That happened again last week when we 47 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: reported this story, there was another case where a student 48 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: debtor had won in bankruptcy court to have about one 49 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars worth of debt discharged. The Biden administration 50 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: immediately moved to appeal the case, and after we wrote 51 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: about it in this story, they dropped the appeal. It 52 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: does seem like the administration is sort of changing its 53 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: attack on appeals. The Washington Post wrote a very similar 54 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: story to ours last week this morning, in which the 55 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 1: Education Department said it would not be pursuing appeals where 56 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: student debtors were victorious. So it seems like there's been 57 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: a policy shift there. However, there are still, like I said, 58 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: a few dozen cases where people are trying to have 59 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: their debt discharge through bankruptcy, and you know the force 60 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: of the Education and Justice departments is going up against them, 61 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: got it. Yeah, So in terms of these specific cases, 62 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: I mean, what can you just explain again the role 63 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: of the government in this, Like why are they even involved? 64 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: How is this even administration policy? Great question. So, so 65 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: in in bankruptcy court, if you're trying to have debt 66 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: of any type discharge, you need to undergo a separate 67 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: proceeding to have student debt discharge because there's a much 68 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: higher legal standard that's in part thanks to work Joe 69 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: Biden did as a senator. And so if you're, you know, 70 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: trying to have federal student loan debt discharged through bankruptcy court, 71 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: the Education Department can can go up against you in 72 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: court and say, you know, we don't want this debt discharge. 73 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: And to be clear, in the cases we've been writing about, 74 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: you have people who either can't work or working jobs 75 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: making like ten or twelve dollars an hour and have 76 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: like over one thousand dollars worth of student debt. So 77 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: it doesn't really seem like they're going to be able 78 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: to repay it. But nonetheless, the Justice Department, you know, 79 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: working on behalf of the Education Department, will depose these people, 80 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: ask them about their finances and then basically write these 81 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: long briefs saying, you know, this person could pay it back. 82 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: In one of the cases we wrote about the Justice Department, 83 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: this was actually under Trump argued that a debtor had 84 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: a thirteen year old child who would soon be able 85 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 1: to work and contribute to the family income, and that 86 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: was sort of the argument against bankruptcy. And in the 87 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: that was a case where the debtor was actually victorious, 88 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: but then the Biden administration appealed to the the victory. So, Julia, 89 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: I think this is really important, not just because the 90 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: issue is very important, and it truly is, especially just 91 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: given the astronomical amounts of student debt that citizens are 92 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: holding right now, but because it looks like you helped 93 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: to actually force a change in a positive direction from 94 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: the administration. It reminds me of something we've tracked really 95 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: closely here, which is because of pressure around banning members 96 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: of Congress from trading stock, there actually is some movement there. 97 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: And what we saw there is you had an independent 98 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: journalist unusual Wales, who sort of made this issue a thing. 99 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: Then you had some mainstream journalists who saw like, oh, 100 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: I think there's some clicks and some views and some 101 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: things we can do with this. They started to write 102 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: stories and do their own analyzes. Then politicians start getting questions, 103 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: famously Nancy Pelosi, who initially is like, well, I think 104 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: we should be able to do it because of the 105 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: free market, and the backlash from those comments ultimately forces 106 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: a change. So it started with the independent journalist, and 107 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: then it's when the mainstream media picks up on it. 108 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: It starts to ask questions that you really see this 109 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: shift happens. I wonder if you could trace for us 110 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: so we can understand how this worked. The timeline looked 111 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: like what were your initial interactions with the administration like, 112 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: so that we can use this as a kind of 113 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: a model for hopefully future change. Absolutely, So we published 114 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: the first story a couple of weeks ago now, writing 115 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: basically about this case where the debtor had been victorious. 116 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: And then the Biden administration appealed and we asked the 117 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: Education Department for comment, and I think they said like, oh, 118 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: we'll be able to give you comment like two days 119 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: after whatever deadline we had given them, So it seemed 120 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: like it was really on their radar. So we published 121 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: the story, and you know a lot of these groups 122 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: working on student debt forgiveness bankruptcy really ran with it. 123 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: I think, you know, it is important that they were 124 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: already pretty organized around this issue, so a story was 125 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: able to like actually prompt a reaction, and the administration 126 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: sort of surprisingly withdrew the appeal. After that, a couple 127 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: of mainstream reporters or you know, corporate media reporters I 128 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: guess asked at White House press briefings about the d appeals. 129 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: Biden's press secretary was asked twice about our reporting on 130 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: these cases. And then you know, it was picked up 131 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: by some more mainstream outlets, like like a Business Insider 132 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: now the Washington Post, and so I think something about 133 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: like you know, prompting a little bit of a PR crisis, 134 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: you know, corporate media people sort of paying attention to it, 135 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: maybe because of how much attention it was getting. I'm 136 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: not exactly sure why they jumped on it, and then 137 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: at getting on the radar of the Biden administration, you know, 138 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,679 Speaker 1: and now of course, like the Education Department will return 139 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: our calls. So that's sort of what happened. Well, congratulations, 140 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: We've seen a lot of these types of episodes, so look, 141 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: keep it up. And that's why we're very proud to 142 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: have you guys on the show and be partners with you. 143 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: So thank you, Julia. Yeah, and that's why, guys, if 144 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: you're able to support the work they're doing over at 145 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: the Daily Poster, I mean, this is proof positive why 146 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: it is very much a worthwhile investment. Julia, thank you 147 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: so much for breaking the cell down for us. Thanks sure, 148 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: thanks so much on our pleasure. Thank you guys so 149 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: much for watching. We're gonna have mortgage stuff for you later. 150 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: There's a story that's come out that we really want 151 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: you to keep an eye on because details right now 152 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: are scarce but extraordinarily troubling. Let's go ahead and throw 153 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: this tear sheet up on screen from the Washington Post. 154 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: According to two senators, the CIA has secret program that 155 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: collects American data. This is above and beyond the things 156 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: that we already knew about the CIA. Here's the lead 157 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: of this story, and this is why the details right 158 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: now are still very scarce but incredibly troubling. The CIA 159 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: has a secret, undisclosed data repository that includes information collected 160 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: about Americans. Two Democrats on the Senate Intel Committee said 161 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: while neither the agency nor lawmakers would disclose specifics about 162 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: the data. The senators alleged the CIA had long hidden 163 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: details about the program from the public and Congress. Widen 164 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: Heinrich both said the program operated quote outside the statutory 165 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: framework that Congress and the public believe govern this collection. 166 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: So what they're alleging here is just basic lawlessness from 167 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: the CIA, where the public thinks, Okay, there are rules, 168 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: there are laws that are governing your behavior. We learned 169 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: about your bad deeds. That's been dealt with in certain respects. 170 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: What Widen and Heinrich here are saying is that they 171 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: are continuing to collect and maintain data from US individuals 172 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: that falls outside of what the public knows about and 173 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: even outside of what Congress knows about. Now the CIA, 174 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: of course they're pushing back. They say the programs were classified, 175 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: stop advertised from compromising them. They say that they're only 176 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: collecting information about foreign governments and foreign nationals, and that 177 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: the only collection of US individuals is quote unquote incidental. Oh, 178 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: I've never heard that before, exactly, Like, tell me if 179 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: you've heard that before. And part of what makes this 180 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: so eyebrow raising is that Widen has been incredibly prescient 181 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 1: in the past and has been one of the better 182 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: advocates on civil liberties in Congress. You'll recall back in 183 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, he asked then D and I James Clapper, 184 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: if the NSA collected quote, any type of data at 185 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans. Clapper 186 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: initially responded no, he later said, not wittingly, that turned 187 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: out to be a complete and total lie, as, of course, 188 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: the leaks from Edward Snowden would ultimately reveal. So Widen 189 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: once again sounding the alarm that there is a legal 190 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: data collection of Americans occurring and being maintained by the CIA, 191 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 1: although we have few details right now. I think you're right, 192 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: and this is what's fascinating, and I think that we 193 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: should also establish the credibility of Senator Widen. He is 194 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: one of those people, like you said back in the 195 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: Snowden crisis, who tried to get the d and the 196 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: CIA to admit the truth even though he knew they 197 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: were lying, he could not say anything because he himself 198 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: was constrained by classified information. This letter was sent back 199 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: in April of but they was classified up until now 200 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: months and months later. The CIA obviously preparing a lot 201 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: of their response. It also just goes to show you 202 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: how they can control a narrative, Crystal, because you wait 203 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: eight what ten months in order for the release of 204 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: this letter, they have everything all their ducks in a 205 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: row and say, oh, no, this is actually what happened. 206 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: Possibly they can even stop it if they wanted to, 207 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: and they can destroy a lot of the evidence also 208 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: if they want to about what was happening. And because 209 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: of secrecy laws, you and I are not hearing anything 210 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: real about any of this, and that's the scary part. Look, 211 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: we have known since the Snowden leaks that NSSA quote 212 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 1: unquote incidental collection is anything but incidental. They claim it's anonymized. 213 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: It's not anonymized. They claim that if a US citizen's 214 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: come this is what we learned during the FISA a 215 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: warrant thing under Trump, right, you know, which is that 216 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: if a US citizen is has their communications incidentally collected, 217 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: that the NSA very much has the power in order 218 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: to unmask you, and that the power of unmasking can 219 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: be requested by the simple request of somebody likes Samantha Power, 220 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: the US Ambassador to the United Nations, the National Security Advisor, 221 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: without any real process put in place by Congress by 222 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: a judge. Your rights and your communications in the digital 223 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: age and the communications with foreign nationals are very much 224 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: up for grabs by these people, and it very much 225 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: just also violates their mandate. They are not supposed to 226 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: operate here on us soil. The Church Committee and all 227 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: that the previous investigations made it so we tried to 228 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: put an end to this, but it looks very much 229 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: so like they're back to their old ways. The history 230 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 1: of this agency is a history of lawlessness. I mean 231 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: that really has been fairly consistently the case from the 232 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: very early days when they were freelancing on operations during 233 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: the Cold War, that even the presidents didn't have full 234 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: understanding or awareness of what was ultimately going on. You know, 235 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: the deep state has been now claimed by the right, 236 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: but this is a term that has long been understood 237 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: by the left to be these entrenched bureaucracies, people who 238 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: last way longer than the presidents do, and ultimately in 239 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: a lot of instances exercise a lot more power and 240 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: a lot more latitude with the actions that they ultimately undertake. 241 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: So this is just the latest instance where this agency 242 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: feels like they don't have to comply with the law, 243 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: that they don't have to inform the public about what 244 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 1: they're doing, that they don't have to inform Congress about 245 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: the specifics of what they are doing, and as was 246 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: shown by Widen and by Edward Snowden, ultimately they're completely 247 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: willing to just directly lie to Congress when asked a 248 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,719 Speaker 1: question that is uncomfortable for them and will expose their 249 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: lawbreaking and their wrongdoing. So this is one to really 250 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: keep an eye on and just also to serve as 251 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: a reminder for what a terrible actor this agency has been, 252 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: both with regards to Americans, said, but also obviously around 253 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, that's right. All right, guys, thanks so 254 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: much for watching. We're gonna have more for you later. 255 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: This continuing to be a lot of shenanigans over at CNN, 256 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: major fallout from the resignation of former president Jeff Zucker 257 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. 258 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: What you see here the headline from the Wall Street 259 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: Journal clashing executive's office, romance, angry anchors inside the week 260 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: that shook CNN, and I don't think we can beat 261 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: this enough, Crystal, which is that the central critique inside CNN, 262 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: which is slavishly loyal to Jeff Zucker, is that Zucker 263 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: did not deserve to lose his job. And yet inside 264 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: this Wall Street journal piece we learn about the office 265 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: romance of Zucker was conducting. Not even the worst thing 266 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: he was doing, the fact that his mistress and who 267 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: he hired then as the number two of the network, 268 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: used to work for Andrew Cuomo, that they helped draft 269 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: statements for Andrew Cuomo, they helped recruit Cuomo to appear 270 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: on his brother's show, and then when all came and 271 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: said and done, then they tried to blame it all Cuomo, 272 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: Chris Cuomo and fire him as the ensuing crisis happened. 273 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: And the chief complaint from the so called journalists inside 274 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: of CNN is they did Zucker dirty because they fired 275 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: him for flagrantly violating any journalistic principle, because he protected 276 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: their asses whenever they were going to get fired by 277 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: their parent company AT and T. And this has far 278 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: reaching consequences because their new leadership, Discovery, actually the merger 279 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: was just approved in order to take over the company, 280 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: and we'll see how long exactly that takes. They're not 281 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: happy with any of this at all. They don't like 282 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: the press, they don't like the product. One of their 283 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: original investors and creators of CNN has openly said, I 284 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: think they should go back to reporting straight news. And 285 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: that's his existential threat to the clowns that are inside 286 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: of CNN today. There's a bunch of sort of like 287 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: media power moves that are lurking right under the surface 288 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: of this thing. I mean, first, you have the battle 289 00:15:55,960 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: between Cuomo and zucker And from Cuomo's perspective, you know, 290 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: his sort of lawyer's position is, first of all, dude, 291 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: you Jeff zucker knew everything that was going on here, 292 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: which I believe, I actually believe that. Don't play like 293 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: you had no idea. How could he be consulting with 294 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: his brother. You were well aware of everything that was 295 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: going on, so let's not play Pollyanna. And number two 296 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: that you and your mistress Alison Gollister were also involved 297 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: in advising Governor Cuomo. In particular, the allegation that has 298 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: come out is that he was giving talking points to 299 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: Cuomo during his you know, COVID briefings on how to 300 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: push back on Donald Trump and that media story. You 301 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: will remember those times, the Times of the Cuomo sexual 302 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: that media story that pit Governor Cuomo against Trump and 303 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: he was the real president that millions of Americans are 304 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: looking to. CNN profited off of that more than anyone 305 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: because they did get these exclusive interviews with him with 306 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: Chris Cuomo. So Chris Cuomo's stand up back and going 307 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: all right, I got fired, but you're sitting pretty here, 308 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: I'm losing my millions and you're sitting pretty here when 309 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: we were part of this whole conspiracy that worked out 310 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: very nicely for CNN. So that's one piece of it. 311 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: The other piece is this internal sort of battle for 312 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: power between Jason Kyler, who ultimately is the one who 313 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: axes Jeff Zucker, gets in the power position actses Zucker. 314 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: He had already taken some of his responsibilities away from him, 315 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: including on the communications over communications at CNN, which was 316 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: headed up by Alison Gollis, who was his mistress. So 317 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: there was that jockeying. And once Kyler gets the upper 318 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: hand here with what comes out in the investigation of Cuomo, 319 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: he's able to act Zucker. Then you have the anchors 320 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: who are melting down, not because all of this tawdry, 321 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 1: you know, corruption is exposed, which reflects very poorly on 322 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: them and their own reputations. No, they're upset that they're 323 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: god their patron is given the acts. And then the 324 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: part that really makes this also very interesting from a 325 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: business perspective is that Zucker was the person who was 326 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: spearheading what appears to be the disastrous development of CNN Plus. 327 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: So he's intimately involved in picking the talent. He does. 328 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: The Chris Wallace deal, Big Higher, all of the yes, 329 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: a big higher, big get of Chris Wallace, all of 330 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: the thinking and the strategy behind CNN Plus, that was 331 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: all coming from Zucker. Apparently, according to the Wall Street 332 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: Journal report, he asked for permission to stay until the 333 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: deal with Discovery was closed. He then asked to just 334 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: finish out the week, and Kyler wouldn't let him do 335 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: even that. So that shows you some of the power plays. 336 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: And then we have from the Hollywood Reporter, we can 337 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: put this up on the screen that now there is 338 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: an entire rethink of the CNN Plus strategy writ large. 339 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: Here's the quote. It says, week before it even launches 340 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: CNN streaming service, CNN Plus is contemplating a strategic pivot 341 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: that Zucker was closely involved in prepping CNN Plus. But 342 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: now the forthcoming services strategy and future as a standalone 343 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: platform is in doubt with new ownership expected soon, So 344 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: chaos all the way around. You just you know, you 345 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: hate to see it. What's funny is that Zucker wanted 346 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: to create CNN Plus as its own standalone product. And 347 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: that's what we always have been making fun of here endlessly. 348 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: And I've actually been told my tweets have been our tweets, 349 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: and our coverage has been getting noticed in some really 350 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: higher places on CNN Plus with some people are very upset. 351 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: Look sucks a suck. I don't know what to tell 352 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: you, you you know. I mean, their vision was that CNN 353 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: was such a valuable brand they were going to create 354 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: a standalone streaming service within it, only for CNN. Didn't 355 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: make any sense. The most valuable part of CNN is 356 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: live pictures. The talent is actually awful. That's why people 357 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: don't trust it anymore. So they were doubling down on 358 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: talent without any of the value. Go figure, Okay, good luck, 359 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,719 Speaker 1: But now I'm not the only person who sees this. 360 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: The new CEO of Discovery, David Zaslav, apparently he sees 361 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: it quite well, and they are thinking now, per the 362 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: Hollywood Reporter, yeah, maybe we're going to scale this thing 363 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 1: back significantly and bundle it with a bunch of other 364 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: Warner products, which means that now CNN Plus won't be 365 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: the standalone service that they wanted to the streaming news juggernaut. 366 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: It'll just be a fake offering like they have Peacock 367 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: with those ridiculous Mady Haustins, Zerlina Maxwell shows which nobody watches. 368 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: So that is the ultimate goal, an end result of 369 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: likely to see what CNN Plus I think it ended 370 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: up would have ended up there anyway, but now they'll 371 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,719 Speaker 1: actually going to skip the one hundred million dollars boondoggle 372 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: part where they're going to try and launch it stand alone. 373 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: So big mistake for anybody who thought they were making 374 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: a good move by going into CNN Plus. Chris, I 375 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: hope the cash was worth it. It It is probably the 376 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: last that we've heard your name for quite some time. Yeah, 377 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: somebody is realizing that CNN Plus is going to be 378 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: unable to stand alone. Yes, so this goes also to 379 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: your prediction that you know the way that they'll succeed, 380 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: because it will never be admitted to be a failure exactly, 381 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,959 Speaker 1: is they'll package it with other things that people actually 382 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: do want or willing to pay for movies, you know, 383 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: things that are entertaining. Yes, yeah, exactly, and then you 384 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: never have any sort of public numbers on how many 385 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: people are actually watching, because yeah, I mean, it's just 386 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: the people they picked here have no ability to bring 387 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: in their own audience. There's nothing there that I mean, listen, 388 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: we can always be proved wrong. Maybe there's some runaway 389 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: hit there, a cooking show or whatever. But they also 390 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: have this sort of like weird mix of Chris Wallace. 391 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: And then they're also trying to recapture like the Anthony 392 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: Bourdain thing with the cooking shows. They're given Don Lemon 393 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: a talk show. Sanja Gutta is going to teach many 394 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: medical classes, Sana, what are you doing? So anyway, somebody 395 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: is looking at all of this now that Zucker's gone 396 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: and going, I think we might need to pivot. We 397 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: might need to rethink this whole gut it out though 398 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: ain't working there You go, all right, all right, guys, 399 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: thanks for watching. We're gonna have more for you later. 400 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: Some major news on Jeffrey Epstein, Prince Andrew Virginia Goufrey 401 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 1: that we want to keep you guys updated on, So 402 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 1: let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. 403 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: Prince Andrew has settled a case with Virginia Gouffrey here 404 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: in the United States in a civil claim in New 405 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: York State. Unfortunately, Crystal, this was the case that he 406 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: fought hard against in order to claim that he didn't 407 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: have jurisdiction over him, that he dodged subpoenas on. I'm personally, 408 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: very very frankly sad about this outcome because this was 409 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: the last real chance that we had with Virginia Gufrey, 410 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: a prominent you know, Epstein accuser and had accused Andrew. 411 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: I mean, look, you could see that photo for yourself. 412 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: He definitely knew who she was, despite his claims otherwise 413 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: in open court. To have some of this actually information 414 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: come out Epstein's most powerful connections all the way up 415 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: to the heart of the monarchy. But and this is 416 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: per the Daily Mail, it looks like the Queen is 417 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: going to have to pay a part of the twelve 418 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: million pounds that allegedly leaked of what Andrew is going 419 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: to have to pay. Virginia Gouffrey, and partially she's doing 420 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: so because her jubilee celebration is coming up for I 421 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: think her sixty years on the throne, and that she 422 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: is going to be banning him from this. Remember that 423 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: he already the Queen already stripped him of all of 424 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: his titles, saying you would contest this case as a 425 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: private citizen. She took him away from all of his 426 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: public duties. But frankly found this such embarrassing of a 427 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: case and also possibly to cover up some of the 428 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: information that she herself is going to be paying for 429 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: some of this settlement. So it's a disappointing outcome. I mean, look, Virginia, 430 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,959 Speaker 1: like you know, you've been through a lot. You know, 431 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: we've supported you one hundred percent out of the way. 432 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: But this really was our last chance in open court 433 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: at exposing but Epstein and the most powerful people in 434 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 1: the world. First of all, I always want to make 435 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: sure we get our monarchy facts right. The jubilee actually 436 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: marks seventy of service to the people. Sorry to her match. Yeah, 437 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: and that was a huge fan of the Queen. I 438 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: know you are. That was coming up this summer. And 439 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: the other thing that was happening is we were right 440 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: at the point where the depositions were about to start exactly. 441 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: So there was a lot of pressure put on to 442 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: come to this settlement so that it didn't mess up 443 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: the jubilee, and so that also, you know, none of 444 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: these depositions and the discovery process would even really get going. 445 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: I mean, just to be clear, Virginia Gooffrey doesn't o 446 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: anyone anything other than to do it. It's the best 447 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: for herself, and so folks certainly do not begrudge her, 448 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: but yeah, it is disappointing to not ever have those depositions. 449 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: The Glenne Maxwell trial ended and we learned very little. Oh, 450 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: she has found guilty. Yeah, but because of the strategy 451 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: of the prosecution, they went after this very narrow case 452 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,959 Speaker 1: to just try to prove the bare bones facts needed 453 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: to find her guilty, did not open up the wider 454 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: lens to who was involved in what did this whole 455 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: pyramid scheme of sex trafficking abuse, would it actually look like, 456 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: who enabled it? And all of those things. Meanwhilelex Wexner 457 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: it feels feels free enough to start making major contributions 458 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: again to the Republican Party. They apparently are happy to 459 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: accept those contributions from the man who was most instrumental. 460 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: We don't know all the details, but we know he 461 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: was most instrumental in floating and supporting Jeffrey Epstein's high lifestyle, 462 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: selling him at way less than market value that mansion, 463 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: infamous mansion in New York City and Manhattan. So yeah, 464 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: I mean it feels like this was maybe the last 465 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: chance to have a little bit of a wider accountability 466 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: and view into what was really going on here and 467 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: who all was implicated, and now it is off the table. 468 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: So it's impossible to not feel disappointed about that. I 469 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: was listening to a BBC analysis of what this means 470 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: for the Royal family. First of all, they said, this 471 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: person said, you know, they think that there has been 472 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 1: significant reputational damage, especially among younger Brits, that Prince Andrew 473 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: is never going to be welcomed back in. I mean, 474 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: he's had all his titles stripped. That's that's a done deal. 475 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: Brick Tash payers should not even be paying for this 476 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: man's security. Yeah. Yeah, to be clear, yes agree, but 477 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: yeah that this came down to the timing of the 478 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: jubilee and wanting to sort of get it get it 479 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: off the table before that all occurred, so sweep it 480 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: under the rug as best they can at this point. Yeah, look, 481 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it makes me sad. I feel 482 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: for the queen. I mean, her husband just died and 483 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: this is what she got to deal with. Yeah, this 484 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: is terrible, like for you know what a horrible son. 485 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: But second, like it's a terrible example of how even 486 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: when they get caught, they can still buy people off. 487 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: And like, I get it, you know, Virginia, like you 488 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: don't owe us anything, but it's just to see how 489 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 1: much power they wiel and continue to keep their secrets. 490 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: It's disappointing and really the last chance this pretty much 491 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: is it. They tie a bow on the Maxwell case, 492 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: they tie a bow on this one, and a lot 493 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: of it's probably just never going to come out. A 494 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: lot of criminals down there who are sleeping easier tonight, 495 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: and that is a sad state of books. All Right, guys, 496 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: thanks so much for watching. We're gonna have more for 497 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: you later. All right, guys, we have a little update 498 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: for you about how things are going over there for 499 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: our friends at MSNBC. Let's go ahead and throw this 500 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: tear sheet up on the screen. So we have been 501 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: tracking what is a monumental shift at that network. So 502 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: their star, by far, their biggest star, Rachel Maddow taking 503 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: a step back from her show. She's on a temporary 504 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: hiatus right now. She's expected to return, but you know, 505 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: the longer term prospects for her show very much up 506 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: in the air. Her new contract that she negotiated. She's 507 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: not doing the Daily show anymore, and MSNBC does not 508 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: have anyone who is even close to being able to 509 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: replace her, which is what this tear sheet ultimately reveals. 510 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: It is costing MSNBC in primetime ratings massively. They say 511 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: the network's Mark He nine PM program lost nearly thirty 512 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: percent of its audience in the key twenty five to 513 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: fifty four demo on Monday, the second day of maadows 514 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: weeks long hiatus. According to the latest Nielsen figures, it 515 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: was ali Velshi who was in the chair filling in 516 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: for her, and I think they've had a rotating cast 517 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: of anchors to try to fill in for Rachel while 518 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: she is gone. That episode on that Monday garnered an 519 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: average of two hundred and one thousand viewers in the demo. 520 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: That is a disaster, but I was also surprised. So 521 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: for comparison, the total viewership for the evening was one 522 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: point six million, far below the two point seven eight 523 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: million from Fox's Hannity that won the night. But even 524 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: when Rachel is there, those numbers in the key demo 525 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: are not that strong. But two hundred thousand, like barely 526 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: breaking into two hundred thousand viewers in the key demo 527 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: for your number one show. I can't even tell you 528 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: how bad that is. I mean, just so you guys know, 529 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: easily swamp that. Yeah, all of our every show in 530 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: the key demo in terms of our daily viewers. And 531 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: that's why you know, ultimately it's actually a lot more 532 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: valuable than a lot of these legacy media products. But 533 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: it's down thirty percent, Crystal twenty nine percent compared to 534 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: the Monday of the prior week, whenever Mattow was still hosting, 535 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: and even in their total viewership it was only one 536 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: point six million, which was a million less than what 537 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: Sean Hannity was doing at the time. So this is 538 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,959 Speaker 1: a total catastrophe. Now, look, you can have solace in this. 539 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: They're still beating CNN. Even MSNBC is double the six 540 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: hundred thousand that tuned into the the CNN broadcast. But 541 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: we both called this. I mean, we were like, look, 542 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: this is an extinction level event for them. They're dead 543 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: because you look at this. Matt I was the last 544 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: thing they had. It was Russia Gates. She didn't want 545 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: to do the nightly show anymore about it. Do not 546 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: blame her. That must be in a hell of a 547 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: lot of work. She's done for a long time. She's 548 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: done for a long time. She's you know, she's older, 549 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: she's got a wife, and you know, be God blessed. 550 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: I hope you're happy. But the point is, from MSNBC's perspective, 551 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: they have no talent, none, no bench that can fill 552 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: in and compete, and they're already their numbers in the 553 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: key demo or pad. They have nobody that they could 554 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: possibly hire who could appeal to younger people, because to 555 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: do so would be an indictment of all of their 556 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: coverage and all of their network and their core base 557 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: that now they can't lose. It's total free fall. They 558 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: better get on their knees and pray that Trump runs again. 559 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: That's the only person who could save these people. They've 560 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: always had this issue of part of why Fox is 561 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: such a juggernaut is because conservatives don't trust any other outlet. Yeah, 562 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: that's true. So they feel like Fox News is the 563 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: only place we can go on television where we're going 564 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: to see our views represented. And so they have basically 565 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: like half the country to themselves, whereas liberals they trust ABC, 566 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: they trust NBC, they trust CBS, they trust NPR, they 567 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: trust CNN, they trust MSNBC. So they have sort of 568 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: a structural issue where their core audience has a whole 569 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: array of options that they find to be palatable and worthy. 570 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: And then when you couple on top of that, the 571 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: fact that they're programming is just boring. Like the answer 572 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: to every question is Trump is bad. At a certain point, 573 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: people are like, all right, what else you got? And 574 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: then what's happening in Ukraine? Especially right, especially when you 575 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: do have Before Trump came along, they were totally hosed. 576 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: Their ratings were complete trash, and they had no idea 577 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: what to do about it. Trump comes along and kind 578 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: of saves them. But since they have so closely aligned 579 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: themselves with this democratic not just the left broadly, but 580 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: with like this democratic establishment, pure party partisan college is 581 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: like the perfect example, yeah, bringing in like you know, 582 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: I mean, remember when Chris Matthews was during the primary 583 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: talking about he was worried about getting rounded up in 584 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: Central Park and executed if Bernie Sanders wins. Like so, 585 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: I mean, they've really leaned hard into this establishment, corporate 586 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: version of the Democratic Party that obviously has like no 587 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: support among younger generations anyway. So they're one person that 588 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: people show up for is Rachel Maddow with the like 589 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: you know, Russia Gate, Conspiracy Hour. With her not there, 590 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: they don't have There's no one else there who has 591 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: a brand that actually pulls in viewers. It's not the 592 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: same as you know, independent media. You have to be 593 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: able to like draw people in. You don't just get 594 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: to benefit from whoever was in the chair before you. 595 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: In this larger structure, Rachel is really the only person 596 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: that they have that has her own kind of like 597 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: center of gravity. And so you can see the minute 598 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: the minute she steps away, they lose a third of 599 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: the audience. There you go, So MARIMSNBC, I'm gonna enjoy 600 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: watching this veil. All right, guys, thanks for watching. A 601 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: lot more for you later. Hi. I'm Matt Stoler, and 602 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: welcome to another big breakdown. So I'm a policy advocate 603 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: and a writer, and I study the economy, and the 604 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: goal of these videos is to teach you how parts 605 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: of the economy work, and how we write laws to 606 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 1: structure those parts of the economy, to structure markets. So 607 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: today we're going to talk about pod marijuana, and I 608 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: have an interview with someone who actually writes laws to 609 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: structure marijuana markets. All right, So, in nineteen thirty three, 610 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: the American government ratified the twenty first Amendment to the Constitution, 611 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: which formally ended prohibition of alcohol. Just a few years later, 612 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty seven, we made marijuana illegal, so we 613 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: replaced one form of prohibition with another. Now, since then, 614 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: being tough on drugs has been as American as apple pie. 615 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: America's public enemy Number one in the United States is 616 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 1: drug abuse. In order to fight and defeat this enemy, 617 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: it is necessary to wage a new, all out offensive. 618 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 1: I have asked the Congress to provide the legislative authority 619 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: and the funds to fuel this kind of an offensive. 620 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: But this hostility to illegal drugs has slowly waned in 621 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: the last twenty years. Nineteen states have legalized pot completely. 622 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 1: Thirty seven have made medicinal marijuana legal. But as late 623 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: as ten years ago, the drug war sentiment was still 624 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: quite strong places like Congress and among our our political elites. So, 625 00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: for instance, in twenty eleven, Republican House Speaker John Bayner said, quote, 626 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: I am unalterably opposed to the legalization of marijuana or 627 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: any other FDA Schedule one drug standard drug warrior. But 628 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: Bayner and other politicians were fighting a losing battle on 629 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: America's second prohibition. The question today, maybe even a few 630 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: years ago, was no longer whether pot will become legal, 631 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: it's now when and how. Now. One way we know 632 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: that is to listen to the same politicians who were 633 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: formerly so tough on drugs and how they've now become 634 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: ardent supporters of legalizing marijuana. So, starting a few years ago, 635 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of them, former Senate Majority Leader Tom Dashell, 636 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,240 Speaker 1: former Congressman Dana Rohbacher, former House Leader, former Congressman Joe Crowley, 637 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: they suddenly changed their boomer mindset, as did surprise, surprise, 638 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: John Bahner himself, like most Americans, over the last ten years, 639 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: people's opinion on this issue have evolved, and I felt 640 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: myself like any other America. In my position, you've all 641 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: over the years but never really thought much about it 642 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: until Kevin and I began conversations four or five six 643 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: months ago, and I thought to myself, you know, this 644 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 1: might be something that I could let my voice do. 645 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: That makes sense, And the fact that you're joining the board, 646 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,280 Speaker 1: does that mean now you see a path in which 647 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,760 Speaker 1: either state regulations spread like wildfire, or the federal level 648 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: begins to embrace this instead of reject it. Now, if 649 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: you want a legalize pot, which most people do, you'll 650 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: see this is a good thing. But what's far more 651 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: important at this point is to understand exactly why once 652 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: powerful politicians like Bayner are suddenly speaking out, and that 653 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: has to do with another kind of green that we 654 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: are all too familiar with in our political system. Money. Now, 655 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: last year, sales of legal marijuana were at least seventeen 656 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,280 Speaker 1: point five billion dollars, which is, give or take about 657 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: fifty dollars for every man, woman, and child in America. 658 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: It's a big industry twenty that pot generates is part 659 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: of the pitch that men like Maner are making for legalization. 660 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: When I'm talking to politicians, Cannabis jobs are a major 661 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: selling point. But so is the tax revenue. Colorado, perfect example, 662 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: since twenty fourteen, they've collected in the neighborhood of eight 663 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: hundred and fifteen million dollars in tax revenue from cannabis. 664 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,720 Speaker 1: That's not eight hundred and fifteen million dollars in sales. 665 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: They're bringing up billions there. That's eight hundred and fifteen 666 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 1: million dollars in Jeff's tax revenue. Colorado poured that money 667 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,720 Speaker 1: into infrastructure projects, plugging holes in budgets, healthcare. Heck, twenty 668 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: one million dollars was handed to law enforcement. The police 669 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: are using cannabis tax dollars to keep the streets safe. 670 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,320 Speaker 1: And the biggest jock of this cash, two hundred million dollars, 671 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,800 Speaker 1: has gone toward building new schools. Out in Deer Trail, Colorado. 672 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: There was an elementary school was falling apart, so each 673 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: link in the locker room swimming pool wasn't safe, school 674 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: doors wouldn't lock. But corporate advocates of pot aren't really 675 00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,359 Speaker 1: concerned about money for schools. Former high level politicians John 676 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: Bayner don't just become spokesman for large industries for free. 677 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: In a piece a few years ago on why Bayer 678 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,919 Speaker 1: changed his tune on Pot why he was speaking out. 679 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,919 Speaker 1: The New York Times showed that Bayner held a large 680 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: stake in a three billion dollar corporation then being sold 681 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,520 Speaker 1: to the biggest cannabis holding company in the world, Canopy Growth, 682 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: to create an eighteen billion dollar monster. Very deep in 683 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: a financial filing from November fourteenth, twenty eighteen, is Acreages disclosure. Acreages, 684 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: the company that Bayner was representing. Acreage's disclosure that the 685 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: two men each held six hundred and twenty five thousand 686 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: shares in the company, which if sold after the company's 687 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: sale to Canopy, would net them of fortune. And behind 688 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,439 Speaker 1: Bayner are billions of dollars of investment, with the goal 689 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: of building out an industry that could reach over one 690 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars domestically and a trillion dollars worldwide. Still, 691 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: this leaves open the question of where the money's going 692 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: to go and who will receive it. What's the business model? 693 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: POTT is not like semiconductors or even six threats. It's 694 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 1: easy to grow, which means that it's hard to maintain 695 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,399 Speaker 1: high profits. If you charge too much, someone else can 696 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 1: just come to the market and undersell you. Consumers can 697 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: even grow their own. The answer to how to keep 698 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: profits and prevent competition in the market is monopoly. Now 699 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,839 Speaker 1: here's an excerpt of a presentation a few years ago 700 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: at the American Cannabis Summit Countdown to Legalization. Now. I 701 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: really like this excerpt because it hits that sweet spot 702 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: between boring and creepy that all great corporate sales pitches 703 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: seemingly have. It'll give you a sense of just how 704 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: investors and salesman like Bayner are thinking about cannabis. The 705 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,720 Speaker 1: first phase is a free for all. There are tons 706 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: of startups and small firms. New players are constantly entering 707 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 1: the market. Nobody has giant market share, no clear winners yet. 708 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: Phase two that's where we see massive consolidation. Smaller companies 709 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: start merging. Bigger companies acquire smaller ones. Phase three that's 710 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,760 Speaker 1: where the mega deals happen. The big guys start merging 711 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: with each other. We've seen plenty of these deals eclipse 712 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: one hundred billion dollars. Then Phase four is where the 713 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,879 Speaker 1: action slows down. You have just a handful of big 714 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,840 Speaker 1: players in an industry. This is the blue chip stock 715 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: Phase John, where do you think cannabis falls on this timeline. 716 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: We're in a sweet spot right now. Cannabis is nearing 717 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,919 Speaker 1: the end of phase one. And here's where it gets 718 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: me really excited. We're starting to see those red blinking 719 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,360 Speaker 1: lights signaling this industry it's about to jump into phase 720 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,280 Speaker 1: two with a bang. Rapid consolidation could lead to rapid 721 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,479 Speaker 1: profits for those who strike now. The writing's on the wall. 722 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: Scott's Miracle Grow the boring fertilizer company. They were one 723 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: of the first movers. Their CEO declared that cannabis was 724 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: the biggest thing he's ever seen. Initially, he committed to 725 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: investing five hundred million dollars in the secord. But then 726 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: he starts buying cannabis companies and he can't stop hydroponics 727 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: and lighting companies, companies that sell soil to cannabis farmers. 728 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: He's already cut checks totally seven hundred and five million dollars. 729 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: Scott's Miracle Grow isn't the only household name eye in 730 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: the cannabis market. Johnson and Johnson is linked up with 731 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 1: two small firms. Coca Cola is talking about making cannabis 732 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: and fuse beverages. I was on the board of a 733 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 1: major tobacco company Reynolds. You think big tobacco is staying 734 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: on the sidelines. I've talked to these guys. They're gonna 735 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: sit this one out, and they have the dollars to 736 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: acquire whoever they want. We're just beginning to see some 737 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: action in the space. Imperial Brands, makers of Cool and 738 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,840 Speaker 1: Winston cigarettes, they invested in a medical marijuana research firm 739 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: in the UK. We can't forget the al caol companies. 740 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: On August first, mulsen Cores announced they're partnering with Hexacorp 741 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 1: to create cannabis infused beverages. But again, it's not that 742 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: easy to create a monopoly around marijuana because it's a 743 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 1: weed that grows, you know, grow it anywhere. Now, sure, 744 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: you can put marijuana into consumer products, you can make 745 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,720 Speaker 1: it easy to vape, there are markets for ancillary supplies 746 00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 1: to grow it, and all of these things have some 747 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,800 Speaker 1: barriers to entry, but the compatitive threat of new entrants 748 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: is always there. A lot of people know how to 749 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 1: grow it already, So what's the plan. Well, they'll put 750 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: cash into lobbying. Right now, the big weed companies are 751 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: trying to get states to legally restrict competition so they 752 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: can build and protect market power. In other words, they'll 753 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: use the law to give themselves monopoly. Now take Cure 754 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 1: a Leaf and Green Thumb Industries, two of the biggest 755 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: cannabis corporations. Now here's what they're telling investors. Cure a 756 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 1: Leaf says that it quote maintains an operational footprint of 757 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,320 Speaker 1: primarily limited license states with natural high barriers to entry 758 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,800 Speaker 1: and limited market participants. End quote. Now that's an annoying 759 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: corporate speak way of saying they want monopoly power. Green 760 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: Thumb Industries says it is seeking to operate in quote 761 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: limited supply markets end quote. I'd say slightly shorter but 762 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,479 Speaker 1: equally annoying way of saying the same thing. In fact, 763 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 1: Green Thumb CEO told shareholders in one letter that quote 764 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: every day is day one Green Thumb. Now, if this 765 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: sounds familiar, it should. It's because it's Amazon founder Jeff 766 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,479 Speaker 1: Bezos himself coined that phrase to describe his own firm, 767 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 1: saying that in Amazon, it's quote always day one, And 768 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: what he meant was Amazon employees should always be aggressive 769 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 1: at seizing market power and crushing rivals and suppliers, as 770 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,399 Speaker 1: well as distracting task concessions from cities and states who 771 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 1: do business with them. So the weed executives now behind 772 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: legalization are taking their inspiration, in fact, plagiarizing the slogan 773 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 1: from perhaps the most aggressive monopolist in the world. But 774 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,319 Speaker 1: it's not all bad news. It's early. In fact, mostly 775 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 1: it's good news. We're right now transitioning from illegal markets 776 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,719 Speaker 1: in marijuana to legal markets. It's very similar to what 777 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: happened after the end of prohibition of alcohol that I 778 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: mentioned at the top. Like alcohol, it's going to be 779 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: regulated or it's regulated right now at a state level. Now. 780 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,480 Speaker 1: Because of alcohol, it's in the twenty first Amendment to 781 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,840 Speaker 1: the Constitution. It says it's got to be regulated at 782 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 1: state level. But pott's a little different the legal framework, 783 00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 1: since POTT is illegal at a federal level but legal 784 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:11,360 Speaker 1: in some states. It's the states themselves that regulated in Naturally, 785 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,600 Speaker 1: different states have chosen different models to organize these markets. 786 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,240 Speaker 1: So Oklahoma, for example, has twelve thousand new weed businesses 787 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,799 Speaker 1: because of its particular regulatory model that allows competition by 788 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: small firms. By contrast, Virginia handed out monopoly licenses, so 789 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 1: there are fewer businesses. Now it's an exciting time for 790 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: cannabis because these are new markets and so the rules 791 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,360 Speaker 1: are still being said, and how we structure these markets 792 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 1: is very much up in the air. So what are 793 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 1: the tricks that would be monopolists are playing to game 794 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,400 Speaker 1: these markets in their favor? And how should states regulate 795 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,840 Speaker 1: their markets to best ensure competition. To answer these questions, 796 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 1: I turned to an anti monopolist and marijuana expert, Shaleen Title. 797 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,400 Speaker 1: Shealien is a drug policy attorney and a fellow at 798 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 1: the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center. She's actually written laws 799 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,480 Speaker 1: in Massachusetts to structure marijuana markets in a way that 800 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 1: protects small producers and retailers, and now she thinks about 801 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 1: the problem more broadly. So shelline, what are some of 802 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,600 Speaker 1: the tricks that the big weed monopolists are trying to 803 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: use to gain and maintain market power? So I did 804 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 1: The biggest trick is looking for limited licensing market structures, 805 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,560 Speaker 1: So going into a state and saying, in order to 806 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,319 Speaker 1: keep this under control, you should only have fifteen or 807 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 1: twenty licenses, jamake and sell marijuana throughout the whole eight 808 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:39,720 Speaker 1: and then they will lobby to get themselves, usually because 809 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: they're already in the medical market early access to sell 810 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: cannabis and then they'll do the same thing at the 811 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,440 Speaker 1: city level. So at the city level they'll say, you 812 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,319 Speaker 1: should only have two or three cannabis stores in this 813 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,959 Speaker 1: whole city, and here's why they should go to US. 814 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:59,080 Speaker 1: So which states have been promanopoly on weed legislation and 815 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,680 Speaker 1: which states haven't. So I'd say Florida is one of 816 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: the worst. But in general, the East Coast has kind 817 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 1: of been worse because the West Coast legalized cannabis first, 818 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: and it was kind of before it was clear how 819 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,439 Speaker 1: profitable it was going to be, and so you didn't 820 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 1: have as many big companies involved or lobbying. But on 821 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 1: the East Coast you see companies really lobbying for these 822 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 1: kind of oligopolistic market structures. I'd say some of the 823 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:37,720 Speaker 1: best are Washington, Oregon, and then Massachusetts is a unique 824 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: one because even though we're on the East Coast, we 825 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 1: did put a lot of work into ensuring that no 826 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,000 Speaker 1: company can dominate the market. You can't have more than 827 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,680 Speaker 1: three stores, for example. And we also invested a lot 828 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,760 Speaker 1: into making sure that we were reading contracts and making 829 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,319 Speaker 1: sure that what was happening in real life was the 830 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,840 Speaker 1: same as what was happening on paper. What are the 831 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 1: possible health consequence of consolidation. So I've been a advocate 832 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:08,480 Speaker 1: for legalizing marijuana for over twenty years, so I understand 833 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,280 Speaker 1: the benefits. But the concern is when you look at 834 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:18,080 Speaker 1: tobacco or alcohol or pharma. When you have profits that 835 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,239 Speaker 1: are a primary concern, and you have companies that are 836 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,799 Speaker 1: so big that it becomes difficult to regulate them, then 837 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 1: you see a incentive to make more people use your 838 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,239 Speaker 1: products and to worry more about your own profits than 839 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,799 Speaker 1: their health. And so there's nothing unique about cannabis that 840 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,799 Speaker 1: could prevent, for example, the products from being manipulated to 841 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: be more addictive, or advertising that's targeted to children, or 842 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 1: any of these other strategies that we've seen, frankly in 843 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,280 Speaker 1: other industries like tobacco. What should states do when writing 844 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,880 Speaker 1: laws to create a healthy market structure? So in Massachusetts 845 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 1: we did two things. We tried to make a fair 846 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:04,200 Speaker 1: market was accessible for small businesses in general, and then 847 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:09,000 Speaker 1: we tried to give particular advantages to the communities that 848 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: have been most harmed by the War on drugs. But 849 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,600 Speaker 1: you can't really do one of those things without the other. 850 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,560 Speaker 1: Then we also tried to control the market from being 851 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: dominated by limiting how many licenses one particular business or 852 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:28,399 Speaker 1: person can own. And then we paid attention even outside 853 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:34,520 Speaker 1: of cannabis businesses, because, for example, with delivery, there could 854 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,439 Speaker 1: be an app or a tech company. Cever, there could 855 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,960 Speaker 1: be an app or a tech company that could dominate 856 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:46,239 Speaker 1: delivery and then control the cannabis delivery market. So we 857 00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,799 Speaker 1: were very clear that no tech company could share in 858 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: the profit or own in a cannabis company. And they 859 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,280 Speaker 1: also have to make sure the transactions are armed, length 860 00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:01,440 Speaker 1: and fair so that you couldn't you couldn't promote a 861 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,359 Speaker 1: cannabis company on your app just because they're paying you. Now, 862 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,880 Speaker 1: it's still illegal at a federal level. So how should 863 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 1: the federal government legalize marijuana? I think the key is 864 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 1: to be really slow and deliberate at the federal level. 865 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:19,000 Speaker 1: I think history and literature are full of examples of 866 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,360 Speaker 1: something that was started with so much optimism and love 867 00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:26,480 Speaker 1: and then quickly became out of control like Frankenstein, and 868 00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:30,560 Speaker 1: I think we might be headed there with federal legalization 869 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,640 Speaker 1: if we don't stop and understand the market and make 870 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,239 Speaker 1: sure that we're legalizing it in a way that is 871 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,880 Speaker 1: intentional and deliberate. So for example, I would not jump 872 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,600 Speaker 1: straight into interstate commerce. I think that we need to 873 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 1: understand there are a lot of big companies that are 874 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,880 Speaker 1: waiting in the wings that have not entered the market 875 00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,120 Speaker 1: yet because they don't want to put their other businesses 876 00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:02,640 Speaker 1: at risk. But once federallyzation happens, interstate commerce is allowed, 877 00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 1: banking is allowed, we really have no way of predicting 878 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,760 Speaker 1: what it will look like and how fast consolidation will happen. 879 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: So I think taking it one step at a time, 880 00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:18,239 Speaker 1: allowing states to continue their current markets, perhaps that are 881 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,040 Speaker 1: just within the state borders, is a good idea, and 882 00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,759 Speaker 1: just being careful that we don't go so fast we 883 00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,359 Speaker 1: have results we can't take back. Chleine. Last question, So 884 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,200 Speaker 1: you've been doing this for twenty years. How's it going. 885 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,439 Speaker 1: Is Big Weed effective at lobbying? Are you optimistic about 886 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:38,400 Speaker 1: the possibilities for this market. I'm very optimistic. Up to 887 00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,759 Speaker 1: ninety percent of people now support the legal use of 888 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,600 Speaker 1: cannabis in some form, And at the same time, Big 889 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:51,080 Speaker 1: Weed is not very effective. Even though big cannabis companies 890 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:56,319 Speaker 1: have hired former officials like John Bayner, they haven't been 891 00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:01,000 Speaker 1: very successful. We haven't seen even one federal bill voted 892 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,560 Speaker 1: on by all of Congress yet, and so I think 893 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,319 Speaker 1: we have some time to do this deliberately, and I 894 00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:10,279 Speaker 1: think that it can be for once a policy that 895 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,600 Speaker 1: is determined by the people and not by big corporations. 896 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,560 Speaker 1: Thank you. And that was Shaline Titel on setting up 897 00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:20,200 Speaker 1: markets for marijuana. No, it's an interesting moment where cannabis 898 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:23,280 Speaker 1: activists are the ones saying go slow, while previous hardcore 899 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,920 Speaker 1: drug warriors like John Bahner want legalization now so that 900 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,200 Speaker 1: companies they are set up to rake in cash from 901 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:35,160 Speaker 1: can set up monopolies in this new industry at any rate. 902 00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:37,600 Speaker 1: If you take one thing away from this big break 903 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,560 Speaker 1: breakdown is that there's no such thing as an entirely 904 00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:44,040 Speaker 1: free market. Markets are public institutions, and someone always re 905 00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,120 Speaker 1: rents the rules. If you'd like to know more about 906 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,799 Speaker 1: big business and how our economy really works, you can 907 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,400 Speaker 1: sign up below for my market power focused newsletter Big 908 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,520 Speaker 1: And Remember, how we do business is how we do 909 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,800 Speaker 1: justice in America. Thanks