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Speaker 1: I want to put this up on the Bobby Cast.

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Speaker 1: This was a really fantastic interview that Buzzby gave me.

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Speaker 1: And if you guys hadn't heard, Buzby passed away earlier

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Speaker 1: this week, I don't know when you're actually hearing this,

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Speaker 1: but he passed away earlier this week after a fight

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Speaker 1: with brain cancer. And so what I want to do

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Speaker 1: is play it back for you. I thought this interview

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Speaker 1: was so good that I referenced it in my last book.

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Speaker 1: So we don't put a lot of these old ones

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Speaker 1: back up on the list, but I felt like this

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Speaker 1: was an appropriate time to play this and maybe you

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Speaker 1: like it and have more respect for his music. But

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Speaker 1: no doubt about it was that he was a great dude.

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Speaker 1: So this is Buzzby back from episode eighty four of

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Speaker 1: the Bobby Cast. Check it out, all right, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: episode eighty four of the Bobby Cast, and Buzzby's here,

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Speaker 1: which the first I heard from you is Buddy's with

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Speaker 1: Keith Urban. That was the first I've ever heard of

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Speaker 1: like you in the way of like wow, Because when

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Speaker 1: Keith Urban says something, I'm like, let me listen, because

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Speaker 1: I want He's really kind Yea, but when Keith Urban

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Speaker 1: talks musically, I should listen because Keith Urban probably was

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Speaker 1: the smartest guy to him musically. He's deep man, so deep,

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Speaker 1: Like I've seen him take songs and just take it

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Speaker 1: to like I have friends were gonna cut the songs

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Speaker 1: and people We'll go in the studio with them and

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Speaker 1: go my friends think they're good. They're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm terrible, Like I used to think I was good

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Speaker 1: until Urban came in. So that's the first I'd heard

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Speaker 1: of you when you did some tracks on Rip Chord

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Speaker 1: with with Keith But and I was like, Buzzby, that's

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Speaker 1: is that like buzz Buzzby like a b but it's

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Speaker 1: really your last name. It was brutal growing up with

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Speaker 1: that name. But would they do the Buzzby thing? Buzzby

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Speaker 1: bugs me, buzz but all that stuff. But your name

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Speaker 1: is Mike Buzzby exactly. So is that an artist thing

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Speaker 1: where you like just coming Buzzby or is that just

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Speaker 1: buddy of mine suggests I just go by that professionally.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people would just call me Buzzby. You know.

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Speaker 1: I'd introduced myself, Hey, Mike Buzby, nice to meet you,

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Speaker 1: and everyone would just forget the mike and just call

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Speaker 1: me Buzby. So I just kept going by Busby. And

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Speaker 1: I have a lot to talk about with you because

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Speaker 1: as I've been researching, I've become a bigger and bigger fan.

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Speaker 1: And also I have friends that now that it worked,

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Speaker 1: like Marin, I took Carly out with me on tour

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Speaker 1: stand up, So I have a lot You and I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of similar friendships and um. But as

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Speaker 1: I started to look you up a bit and like

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Speaker 1: go deep into it, and especially with the instruments in

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Speaker 1: the jazz background, like I want to get into all that,

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Speaker 1: but I always like to start with something that just

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Speaker 1: makes people go. And I want to play this demo

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Speaker 1: because you wrote Holy, yeah, and this is you singing Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: I didn't sing that one is singing. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I was like that whose Nate, by the way,

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Speaker 1: Nate Sifer who wrote it. Okay, so but you wrote

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Speaker 1: it this is Nate singing yeah, because that doesn't sound

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Speaker 1: like you when you started talking talk like this, when

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Speaker 1: I sing, you wrote Holy, You're not singing the demo? Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is the demo Holy. I've often said there have

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Speaker 1: been about two songs this year that I think have

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Speaker 1: been really screwed by country radio. One of them was

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Speaker 1: Holy and one of them was Body Like a back Road.

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Speaker 1: Because they were so popular, people wouldn't let them stay popular.

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Speaker 1: And I thought Florida, Georgia, Line and Sam both got

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Speaker 1: screwed in the factory that is country radio and making

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Speaker 1: number one. Get rid of it. And I thought this

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Speaker 1: song should have been in a one for on the

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Speaker 1: radio chart for five, six, seven weeks. It was that

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Speaker 1: big of a song. Yeah, did you feel the same way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, as a writer, you hope something like that

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Speaker 1: would happen, and but you write a lot of you

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Speaker 1: have a lot of hits. Did you feel different about

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Speaker 1: this one? Yeah, No, it felt it felt very impactful

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Speaker 1: and and um, it's interesting. The tricky thing is, um,

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Speaker 1: it just went up really quick too, because of the

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Speaker 1: momentum of them and then how big it was. So

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Speaker 1: it was very impactful, but it kind of like came

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Speaker 1: and then went, you know what I mean, and too quickly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it has a life after that, like because of the

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Speaker 1: type of song it is and the artists that they are.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I think it should have been

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Speaker 1: four or five weeks at least don't you think that

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Speaker 1: it's killing the the culture of country music. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: the songs come and go so fast that when we

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Speaker 1: were kids, songs in general, because well you use countries

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Speaker 1: the format, they would last for eight nine weeks and

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Speaker 1: they became anthems. And we think of our life because

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Speaker 1: of these songs that we remember where we were and

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Speaker 1: now songs number one thing was gone. No, absolutely, I

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Speaker 1: mean it seems like the disconnects. I mean, to be

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Speaker 1: extreme about a buddy who is my mentor told me

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Speaker 1: back in the day, the DJs would show up at

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Speaker 1: their record collection and that's what you play, right and

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Speaker 1: now obviously, and you you're one of the DJs who

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Speaker 1: seems to play a lot of what you play. I

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Speaker 1: remember driving probably a year and a half ago and

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Speaker 1: hearing you play Marin early on and going, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: you know, like before it was really catching, you were

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Speaker 1: like really playing that, and thank you man. You've been

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Speaker 1: such a supporter of artists early on. But it's a machine,

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Speaker 1: and I understand, I understand both sides of it, understand

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Speaker 1: how it sort of needs to be in this modern time,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't necessarily allow for the context of a

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Speaker 1: the DJ helping decide those things sometimes and and more importantly,

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Speaker 1: he truly is the fans fan response, and if the

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Speaker 1: fans responding, let it go. You know, I agree so much.

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Speaker 1: To me, the weird thing is is that a song

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Speaker 1: can be number one and then the next day everybody

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Speaker 1: starts to going The song doesn't go from being awesome

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Speaker 1: to sucking in twelve hours, No, it just gets dropped

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Speaker 1: off all of the playlists and so and because of that,

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Speaker 1: I think inevitably it just we're not in ten years

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Speaker 1: going to have and again we're never in teniers gonna

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Speaker 1: have the same We've ever had in the history of

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Speaker 1: the world. Ten years and never the same. It's never

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Speaker 1: the same. But I think these songs that just remind

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Speaker 1: like we had songs like I came hearing Indian Outlaw

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Speaker 1: on the radio. I remember hearing it smells like teen

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Speaker 1: Spirit on the radio. I know, I feel myself and

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Speaker 1: know where they were. I don't know that that's gonna

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Speaker 1: happen anymore. It's it's it's a similar thought if you

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Speaker 1: want to go all the way back to like there

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Speaker 1: will never be another Beatles, in part for many reasons,

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Speaker 1: but in part that we live in a different world.

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Speaker 1: Like part of what the Beatles the Beatles, besides the talent,

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Speaker 1: was it was there was a mystery. You know. You

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Speaker 1: couldn't just get on Instagram and go look at what

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Speaker 1: Paul was doing this morning, you know, I could, I

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Speaker 1: could be I didn't, but I could be on your

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Speaker 1: Instagram and what was Bobby doing today and see that

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Speaker 1: In vice versa and whatever, there's no mystery. And even

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Speaker 1: though you got you and I are just meeting for

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Speaker 1: the first time, some of it feels like we already

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Speaker 1: know each other because of the friendships, but also social

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Speaker 1: media and life and the overlap and the and the

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Speaker 1: modernity as it were back then, there was just everything

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Speaker 1: was like I heard I think that maybe. And so

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Speaker 1: when the Beatles landed, man, it was like literally when

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Speaker 1: they landed, people were there in mass freaking out because

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Speaker 1: they didn't know what was going on. They didn't really

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Speaker 1: know what they look like in person. They wanted to

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Speaker 1: go see it and feel it, you know. So that

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Speaker 1: kind of excitement is just you can't recreate it. I

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Speaker 1: think options also create that. Listen, there were three TV

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Speaker 1: channels totally, and you're on one of the three TV channels.

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Speaker 1: You have at worst, you know, twenty five percent of

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Speaker 1: the audience period where we have five hundred channels now totally,

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Speaker 1: I mean we're looking at just as an example, a

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Speaker 1: TV network cand to me and say, hey, I want

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Speaker 1: to do the show, like, hey, you should come to

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Speaker 1: the show. And I was like, the show doesn't feel right.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to do this particular TV show. And

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Speaker 1: they were like, we don't understand, Like, you'll do this

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Speaker 1: show and you'll have two and fifty thousand people watching,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, guys, not to be a dick,

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Speaker 1: but I have three million people that listen to my

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Speaker 1: show live and another three million that listen on podcast

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Speaker 1: digitally every day, and back in the day it was

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Speaker 1: ten times that totally like we're all losing are it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's such a world of fly like an interstate

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Speaker 1: and cars driving by, and like do you like the

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Speaker 1: right by and by right car? Totally you have to

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Speaker 1: like it while it was there. Yeah, it's interesting amount

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Speaker 1: of turnover rate for everything just seems a lot quicker.

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Speaker 1: And that's um. You know, it's not just the business

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Speaker 1: and marketing conversation, as you know, it's also a creative conversation.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's killing art? Do you think it's

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Speaker 1: killing art? Or is it making it better? Because I

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Speaker 1: do see arguing on both sides. I'm asking you do

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Speaker 1: you think I think. I'm not trying to cop out.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a bit of both. Like it depends

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Speaker 1: on you know, everything evolves, right, so art has to

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Speaker 1: evolve and it has to be able to function in

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Speaker 1: that new society. I mean it's like, did the computer

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Speaker 1: kill art music making? I don't know. It depends if

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Speaker 1: you're a tape machine purist. I love the sound of

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Speaker 1: a great tape machine record, but I also love the

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Speaker 1: things that I can do in a computer and manipulate something.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever see Jim Morrison talk about the computer?

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Speaker 1: You ever see? It was probably seventies, you know, obviously

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Speaker 1: before he died, uh, and he was doing an interview

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Speaker 1: and he was like, you know what the future and

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Speaker 1: it blew me away, like you know what the future

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Speaker 1: music is? I think you're talking about in the seventies

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Speaker 1: and he's by the way, for those listening, Jim Morris

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Speaker 1: leaked into the doors, very famous man. He died. Wait

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Speaker 1: wait earl um, and he was like, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be it's the computers. In the seventies he was saying this,

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Speaker 1: and he was probably more spot on than he could

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Speaker 1: have ever imagined, because, as you well know, there's a

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Speaker 1: sector of music that is almost specific everything is the computer.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's not like country music typically involves lie

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Speaker 1: live instrumentation still and it's becoming more prevalent again in pop,

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Speaker 1: but with a lot of dance music, it's like everything

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Speaker 1: is literally in the computer. And to me, that's not

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Speaker 1: a better or worser, it's just a different way of

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Speaker 1: doing it. It's like, do you can you still be

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Speaker 1: creative within those confines? You know, so where we would

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Speaker 1: have songs predict what these thirteen year olds will have,

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Speaker 1: what will they'd be able to look at in the

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Speaker 1: art world and go, you know, this really reminds their

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Speaker 1: snapchat story. Well, that's the interesting thing about it, that

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Speaker 1: that that train of thought, even though it's logical and

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Speaker 1: I get it, it goes to the thing of where

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Speaker 1: people literally thought we'd be flying in cars right now,

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Speaker 1: you know, when conceptually it's possible we could go buy

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Speaker 1: a hundred fifty allar car that flies right, but it's

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Speaker 1: not the it's not commonplace. So even though technology is evolving,

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Speaker 1: really quickly. There's still what people want to accept as

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Speaker 1: normal formats is moving way less quickly. So songs will exist,

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Speaker 1: I think forever, they really will. What what kind of songs?

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Speaker 1: How what length of time is acceptable? You know? Where

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Speaker 1: they when they go shorter? Is there gonna be two minutes?

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Speaker 1: And they're already going shorter? Are they telling you? Is it?

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Speaker 1: Because again, I'm lucky enough to be in the high level,

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Speaker 1: I get to see research. I you know, I what

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Speaker 1: happens is with music is we'll take it. And I

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Speaker 1: say we I don't pay for it, but I get

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Speaker 1: to see the results of it. We'll take it and

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Speaker 1: have thousands of people listening to these songs and them

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Speaker 1: songs are on the radio, songs they haven't heard. And

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Speaker 1: you get scores from m scores too. I mean it's

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Speaker 1: it's sometimes you overdad it yourself. And I've seen some

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Speaker 1: really great songs not be scored highly, not in the opposite.

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Speaker 1: But it's data. And what we're seeing is that people

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Speaker 1: get bored with anything over about three minutes and twenty seconds. Totally. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was pointed out to me that they're

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Speaker 1: speeding things up, you know, and not only are they shorting,

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Speaker 1: but they're speeding them up, meaning they'll take a song

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Speaker 1: and I'm totally doing industry secrets here, but they'll take

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Speaker 1: it and speed up three percent, so the song even

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Speaker 1: moves faster. And if you ever hear a song on

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Speaker 1: the radio, you're like, and then you play it back

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Speaker 1: you know your computer, You're like, but does it seems

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Speaker 1: a little slower. It's because radio plays them a little

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Speaker 1: faster and they want them shorter. Yeah, it's interesting, man.

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Speaker 1: As a writer, I mean, I still write stuff that

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Speaker 1: I feel right that that hopefully goes without saying that

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Speaker 1: it's truly the case. But I'm also I have a um,

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Speaker 1: I like business, I have an inclination towards it, and

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Speaker 1: and it's there to me, those aren't necessarily at odds,

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Speaker 1: And so I've had this understanding of the reality that

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Speaker 1: in a business sense, as songwriters, we're selling ads on

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Speaker 1: a radio station we are with, and so is your

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Speaker 1: morning show in this sense of like they want to

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Speaker 1: either hear you and then hear the ad and come

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Speaker 1: back to hear you, or they're gonna hear our song

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna keep them on there so they can

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Speaker 1: ultimately hear the ad and I'm okay with that. It

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Speaker 1: is what it is. I've chosen to be in the

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Speaker 1: billboard business, not Billboard magazine, but selling billboards, right, I

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Speaker 1: did not choose to be in the I'm not trying

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Speaker 1: to paint them Onna Lisa and not not degrading our art.

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Speaker 1: I think you can make amazing art in that context.

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Speaker 1: But it's just a different thing. It's like we're not

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Speaker 1: we're not just sitting on our bedrooms writing songs, because

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Speaker 1: we're writing is act with what we want to say

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Speaker 1: and maybe someone will listen to it. Once. We're trying

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Speaker 1: to write, to write stuff that means something to us

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Speaker 1: and it makes us feel stuff, but that will reach

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Speaker 1: the masses. And so that's the format. That's that we're allowed,

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Speaker 1: is to be able to put it on radio or

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Speaker 1: to put it in Spotify. And we're basically either selling

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Speaker 1: a scription subscription of Spotify or keeping someone on the

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Speaker 1: radio station so that they listened to the ad. And

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Speaker 1: it's of course needed because you've got to have the

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Speaker 1: money to do the thing, And I'm okay with that.

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Speaker 1: It's just a funny thing when you think about it,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can agree a songwriter that right now,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of the wild West, and you guys are

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Speaker 1: not getting paid what you should be getting with streaming

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Speaker 1: services because it's it's it's very complex situation and very frustrating, truly,

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Speaker 1: and I've been constantly trying to be engaged as much

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Speaker 1: as I can different different ways. And I had an

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Speaker 1: interesting conversation with someone the other day who represents a

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Speaker 1: very well known, established old school producer in l A.

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Speaker 1: And they both had invested in Spotify, and um, we

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Speaker 1: were talking about some of that stuff, and it was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't fault Spotify specifically, like if I

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Speaker 1: was gonna fault anybody. More than anything. It's it's truly

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Speaker 1: the legislation that we let the government putting the legislation

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Speaker 1: on us as writers that we have. I mean we're

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Speaker 1: literally imagine going, hey, um, you know, can you come

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Speaker 1: to a show in New York and you sign a

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Speaker 1: new contract or whatever it is, and they go, you

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Speaker 1: want to charge X amount of dollars, But the government says, no,

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Speaker 1: you can only charge a quarter of that. That We're

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Speaker 1: going to regulate that right because we think DJs make

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Speaker 1: too much or it's a monopoly or whatever it is. No,

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Speaker 1: when you go do a show, if you're playing with

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Speaker 1: your band or anything, you negotiate your rate or whatever

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Speaker 1: that is. You know, it's like it's it's it's fair market.

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Speaker 1: I can't do that as a writer with two thirds

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Speaker 1: of my income one part of it I can to sink.

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Speaker 1: When you get something placed on film and TV, we go,

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Speaker 1: we'll negotiate that rate. And and they've also through that

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Speaker 1: process realized that half of it should be for the records,

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Speaker 1: half of it should be for the song. Right, So

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Speaker 1: if someone gives you a ten tholl placement to have

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Speaker 1: your song on some movie or something, half of it

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Speaker 1: goes to the recorded side, half goes to the song.

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Speaker 1: But when it comes to mechanical rates, when it comes

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Speaker 1: to performance, all of that is dictated. It's very complexly so,

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Speaker 1: but dictated by different legislations that effectively does not allow

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Speaker 1: me to go here, here's this water. I want to

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Speaker 1: sell it to you for a hundred dollars, and you

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Speaker 1: know I'm not paying a hundred dollars. I'll pay ten

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Speaker 1: and I go twenty, you go fifteen. Okay, cool, we

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Speaker 1: can't do it. That's the main issue to me. And

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Speaker 1: you know some people want to get mad at Spotify.

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Speaker 1: Some people want to get mad at pendor or whatever.

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Speaker 1: I think. I think that's the future, and I think

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Speaker 1: Spotify is and Pandoras and apples are actually in large

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Speaker 1: trying to do the best they can for the most

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Speaker 1: part um. But we aren't even allowed to come to

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Speaker 1: the table and negotiate fairly for what we want to

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Speaker 1: be represented by financially. The weird part of it is

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Speaker 1: too is again I'm with you. I don't think the

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Speaker 1: Spotify's apples are doing anything wrong. They're not breaking any

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Speaker 1: laws because there are no laws. Well, the only laws

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Speaker 1: are the ones that we keep us, you know, from

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Speaker 1: negotiating to go back to the forties. When I say

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Speaker 1: no laws, there are no current there's there is no

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Speaker 1: law reflective as to what's happening right now. It's the back.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you an example. Who came in and um,

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Speaker 1: she stanging background. I love her as a writer, I

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Speaker 1: can't she She told me that she when when she

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Speaker 1: Spotify she sings, she sings backing tracks, she gets paid

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Speaker 1: more than when she writes the songs Jesse Alexander. She

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Speaker 1: was like, I get paid more for her. And she's

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Speaker 1: had millions and millions of streams the client from Miley,

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Speaker 1: I drop your truck from Lee Brance She's like, I

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Speaker 1: get paid more to sing background vocals than to stream.

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Speaker 1: But the laws are antiquated. I mean they're they're so old.

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Speaker 1: And when I say no laws, why what's beeping by

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Speaker 1: the way to blow up the chair to sit still? No? No, no,

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Speaker 1: there's like a beep. There's like a bomb or something

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Speaker 1: about the house. Uh. Let me. My point was, I thought,

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Speaker 1: Holy got screwed. Back to the whole thing. I really

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Speaker 1: think that you know in this song, and you know

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Speaker 1: here in the story with a song, and you can

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Speaker 1: set the record straight. Stid someone because biber passed had

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Speaker 1: it and you thought he was gonna cut it. But

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Speaker 1: was there someone before biber No. By almost simultaneously, Bieber

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Speaker 1: was interested in it, and we did a deal for

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Speaker 1: the song, like as producers because I co produced that

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Speaker 1: demo that effectively was going to be the master. And

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Speaker 1: then there was another artist who I don't want to

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Speaker 1: specify who it was. You probably wouldn't. It was a

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Speaker 1: new artist. So it's not a thing that's out there, no,

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Speaker 1: not at all. And I'm only not specifying because I

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Speaker 1: want to be cool to him. There's nothing wrong, but

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Speaker 1: like you know, he was an artist who UM was

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Speaker 1: on a TV show and got signed by a prominent

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Speaker 1: record person UM and that person did a really aggressive

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Speaker 1: deal to try to sway us from giving it to Beaver,

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Speaker 1: which we still we we agreed to the terms that

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Speaker 1: we said, but we're still not giving it to you

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Speaker 1: until we know what's up with Beaver, because of course

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Speaker 1: that would have been of the options we had. That

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Speaker 1: was the best option just business wise, and Bieber wanna

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Speaker 1: passing on it, so we cut it on that other artist.

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Speaker 1: So and they paid this producer, so it was already

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Speaker 1: locked in. We couldn't just go and say, hey, we

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Speaker 1: want our song back in a in a normal situation.

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Speaker 1: And Um, about a month before we had been told

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Speaker 1: it was going to be released, my publisher, Sarah from

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Speaker 1: BMG hits me up and goes, hey, what's going on

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Speaker 1: with that song? Holy, I think it's what f GL

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Speaker 1: is looking for? And my head was like what like?

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Speaker 1: Because I wrote it with Nate, who at the time

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Speaker 1: hadn't written anything in Nashville to my knowledge, pop writer,

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Speaker 1: this guy Will Larson, who's pop producer like total in

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Speaker 1: l a thinking for a pop pitch that whole thing

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Speaker 1: and the fact that they resonated like like they did.

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Speaker 1: So I had to call Seth up, their manager and

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Speaker 1: just be like, man, these are some of the business

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Speaker 1: complications we're facing and I'm not sure what's going on

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Speaker 1: with this artist, but I can't necessarily easily get the song,

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Speaker 1: but of course would love you guys to cut it.

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Speaker 1: So we we discussed it, and then we went back

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Speaker 1: to the label and said, Yo, you're not gonna release

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Speaker 1: the song. You're gonna drop this artist. ARGI can we

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Speaker 1: have the song back? And they basically just gave us

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Speaker 1: a song back. At said that he got dropped, not

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Speaker 1: because of that, but he was planning to get dropped.

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Speaker 1: Is it almost a thing where and maybe it's not

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Speaker 1: where if you say, hey, we'd like to have this

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Speaker 1: song back, do they kind of feel like, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can have the song, but you o s one.

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Speaker 1: Is that ever a thing, even if it's not stated.

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Speaker 1: I would think so, depending on the person, it's It's

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Speaker 1: a little more complicated in this case because they paid

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Speaker 1: us a lot of money as the producers on a

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Speaker 1: particular check because of how how badly they wanted a song,

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Speaker 1: and it's in the pop world is a bit more

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Speaker 1: wild West with all that stuff. You know, it's like

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Speaker 1: how much you charge as the producer is whatever whatever

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Speaker 1: you can get basically, and it can it can be

402
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Speaker 1: large numbers, and it depends on how much somebody wants

403
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Speaker 1: a song and if someone else wants it and literally yeah,

404
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Speaker 1: and and this particular label person who wrote the check

405
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Speaker 1: for the second artist, he um, he's known for liking

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Speaker 1: to write checks like and if you really want something

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Speaker 1: to help put his money where his mouth is. It

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Speaker 1: wouldn't even a step further. Which this is just a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a behind the scenes into that world.

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Speaker 1: So we did something called um a kill fee. It's

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Speaker 1: not even an advance, but it was like, if it's

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Speaker 1: not released as the first single by such and such

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Speaker 1: a date, you have to give us another check that

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Speaker 1: was actually overdouble of what the producer fee was. And

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Speaker 1: it just guaranteed that we would actually have the first

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Speaker 1: single because if we were going to give it to

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Speaker 1: this artist who was a new artist who had no

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Speaker 1: track record, which we we'd love for him to have

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Speaker 1: a hit with it, because a hit would be a hit,

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Speaker 1: but it was a bigger risk for us. So their

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Speaker 1: commitment was demonstrated to do that thing. So they had

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Speaker 1: already paid us as producers and the kill fee was

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Speaker 1: coming up in a few weeks, and that's when I

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Speaker 1: called Seth and I explained the whole situation. He's like, dude,

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Speaker 1: we can't do a kill fee, and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, man, I know how Nashville works and it's

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Speaker 1: a totally different way how I work here. Um, And

428
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 1: I was like, well, can you can? Can it be

429
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: a single? He's like, I can't guarantee it, but it

430
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 1: probably will be. We're gonna go five deep and you

431
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 1: know it's a great song or whatever. It hits me

432
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,120
Speaker 1: a month later he's like it's the first single, here's

433
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,600
Speaker 1: the video, and we're like whoa and the rest of

434
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,719
Speaker 1: his history. I mean, it was literally like ju ju ju.

435
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:51,959
Speaker 1: Is there a bit of you that when Beaver passes

436
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,679
Speaker 1: on it? Because that's a money making machine, I mean,

437
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: crazy money make well, you're like more than a bit.

438
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,200
Speaker 1: I mean, quite frankly, it's you know, and for me

439
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 1: it's you know, I I have a family to feed,

440
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 1: and you know, I've been very very fortunate to have

441
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 1: hits and a career and all those things. But every

442
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 1: one of our situations is that it's like, you know,

443
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,680
Speaker 1: even if you get the Biber cut, will it be

444
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,119
Speaker 1: a single? You know, if, of course, right now it

445
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 1: will be a hit. But there was a time where

446
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 1: it was like he's a big artist, but will it

447
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 1: be a hit at radio? You know? Or this new

448
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 1: kid who cut it, like we have the single, but

449
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 1: is he gonna break through? And all of those things

450
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 1: are just this emotional roller coaster because not only do

451
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 1: you write the song with all this emotion and then

452
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 1: send it out into the world, but when that star

453
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 1: stuff starts playing out, man, it's just like because you

454
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 1: at first it is Bieber wants it. I mean it

455
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,920
Speaker 1: was it was Bieber wanted it so much quote unquote

456
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 1: meaning that was so legitimately happening that I remember being

457
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 1: out there. It was in Nashville at the time. They're like,

458
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 1: can you fly back immediately? Want to cut his vocal

459
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,640
Speaker 1: tomorrow supposed to go to Rick Rubin's house and cut

460
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 1: the vocal with Rick on Bieber, And then that literally

461
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 1: last minute the night before didn't happen, with no explanation

462
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,120
Speaker 1: other than he'll cut it in a couple of weeks

463
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 1: and whatever. Oh and then when that starts to happen,

464
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 1: you just honestly, you never know, because that could totally happen,

465
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 1: and then it could be That's the weirdest part about

466
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: what we do. It's like you can't you can't get

467
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 1: too attached to all those things. I've had songs that

468
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 1: literally I was told would not even be on the album,

469
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 1: then made the album and I was told, well, they

470
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: won't be a single, and then they were a second single.

471
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 1: Like my first hit was that two Questions, and I

472
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 1: want to forget other one of the first record, and

473
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 1: but I want to go to the talk about album cuts.

474
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 1: So we'll talk to writers say, hey, you know, I

475
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: get album cute, you know much money. Maybe if they

476
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 1: get album cut, they'll play some of their guarantee back exactly.

477
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 1: And then the pop world is it different if you

478
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 1: get album cut. Is there more money in the pop

479
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: world or does it? Basically it depends who it is.

480
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's all obviously based on sales and

481
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 1: so worldwide artist like Bieber. That's that's the main difference.

482
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: Is these artists can be worldwide, and so even if

483
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,119
Speaker 1: you quote unquote only sell a million records in the US,

484
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: you can catch another one to three worldwide sometimes and

485
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: that's that's pretty pretty rad. So it's basically you can

486
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 1: sell worldwide as an album cut what a single would

487
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: sell in the country genre. It would be hard to

488
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: get that far because basically it's it's for every song.

489
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 1: It's a complex conversation because a lot of popcuts. There's

490
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: very few popcuts that are even three writers. So let's

491
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 1: let's assume it's a popcut that's two writers, just for

492
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 1: be conservative. Every song is worth about let's say nineties

493
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 1: nine cents per album, So every million records is ninety

494
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: dollars for mechanicals roughly, right, And then of course in

495
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: that is your publisher and everybody. So most of that

496
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: money goes back to to recoup your draw which you said,

497
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 1: so if you if you so, if you have half

498
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: of that, it's forty five. And then if you have

499
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: four million, that's gonna be a hundred and eighty thousand dollars.

500
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: And then a country hit three way would be maybe

501
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: three something about a million all told. So it's mechanicals

502
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: are tricky, man, but it does pay more to get

503
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: a cut, and it does makes sit I never thought

504
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: about the worldwide yes, the worldwide thing. That's the big

505
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: difference between pop and country. Very little worldwide with um

506
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: with what country is doing right now. But that's changing

507
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: and I'm stoked about it. We're talking about Express Pros

508
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: for a second. For just one corporate job, only four

509
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 1: to six people will get interviewed for a twinter and

510
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: fifty resumes, So I can think about that, they get resumes,

511
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 1: they're only picking like four to six to even talk to.

512
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: That's not good odds. So if you're counting on getting

513
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: a job when you're uploading your resume, you probably shouldn't

514
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: because again, not good odds. The fact that you need

515
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 1: a real person talking to a real employer that has

516
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: a real job, and that's where Express Employment professionals come in.

517
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: Express is your local resource to help you get a

518
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 1: new job. So they have more than eighteen thousand jobs

519
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: available weekly. That's eighteen thousand jobs that you need to

520
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: get filled, that you can fill right now. They have jobs.

521
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: Find the nearest office at Express pros dot com and

522
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: Express never charges a job secret to find employment, so

523
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: you're locally owned. Express office can help connect you with

524
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: available jobs in your community. Express pros dot Com manufacturing

525
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: jobs accounting jobs, customer service, information technology, you name it,

526
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: visit the nearest Express oppous today speak with hiring professionals

527
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: that can connect you to a job in your community.

528
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: Express pros dot com to find a location near you.

529
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 1: All right, I mentioned Rick Rubin, who will go down

530
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: to history is one of the greatest of all time.

531
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: Everything from you know, for me, like the Beastie Boys,

532
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 1: like that's my music, like my license to ill. When

533
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: I discovered that, it opened my eyes to Wow, you

534
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: can look and sound and all this is certainly when

535
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: none of it has to match anymore? Does that opened

536
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 1: my eyes to anybody can do anything musically? Um? Have

537
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: you spent time with Rick Ruben? Do you know Rick Reuben?

538
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: You talk about going to his house and have you

539
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: ever met Rick Ruben? I have not. Um, I was

540
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: excited about that. That's when you said that. I was like,

541
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: holy crap, just I mean even I mean he's done

542
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: from you know Rick, Rick, He's getting skinny, Yes, absolutely

543
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: vegan now right, Well, the funny part not funny, part

544
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: of the interesting part was when he was heavy, he

545
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: was he's still a vegan, but he actually is gave

546
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: that up and I think he's probably still has a

547
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: lot of energies, but introduced meat into his diet. Well,

548
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: I don't know what the correlation how it works with me.

549
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: Well he I mean the other interesting thing about him,

550
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: as you know, also not only a wildly successful record producer,

551
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: but like the label side, you know, it's like, I mean,

552
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: come on, you know, deaf jam really and an American.

553
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: He's one of the guys that if if you're listening

554
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: to this and you just Wikipedia Rick Rubin and you

555
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 1: look at it. By the way, so when you look

556
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: at and you go, oh, for sure, this dude's death metal,

557
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 1: but then you look at everything that he's been able

558
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: to do in all formats and all genres. I would

559
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: recommend people listen to this, to just the Wikipedia Rick

560
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: roup and look at what he's done in his catalog.

561
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: There's an interesting aside to me, which is that, um,

562
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: some some people who want to be critical, we'll talk

563
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: about how like he's not always in the studio, or

564
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: he's not like a hands on producer or whatever, And

565
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: to me, there's just different ways of making records and

566
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: different ways of making music. But what he is that

567
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: is such an important thing in my opinion and something

568
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: that we should all strive to be. Is he's a

569
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: fan of music like he's From what I understand, he's

570
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: a basically a professional fan of music because he's not

571
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: a self proclaim musician. He's not a recording engineer, none

572
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: of that sort of technical stuff or whatever. He's somebody

573
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: who listens to music and knows how to communicate to

574
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: artists based upon what his He's a curator basically and

575
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: like a professional fan. But he's turned that into a

576
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: career as a record guy and as a producer. It's incredible.

577
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: It's it's firing in that regard. I want to play.

578
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: There's a lot here. I don't know where to start,

579
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 1: but why don't we do this? I'm talking about Keith

580
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: a minute ago. So here's a fight. Yeah, I'm talking

581
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: about this on our second It was we wrote this

582
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: in London actually because Keith was living over there for

583
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: a little bit. Um I think the polls on a

584
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: uh play and so the family was over there and

585
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: he was like, Hey, you want to come over to

586
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: London and Ryan and I was like, heck, yeah, so

587
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: we go? Does he pay? Yeah? He yeah, he did absolutely.

588
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: I Mean it was one of those things where I

589
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: would I would have done it either way. But like

590
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,479
Speaker 1: he's just like he's the best man. He just um,

591
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: he's such a thoughtful and gracious person, you know. But yeah,

592
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: we went over there and um, we hold up at

593
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: this this studio, Martin Trefe Studio. It's just gorgeous, like

594
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: on the fourth floor of this kind of like old

595
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: school English industrial complex from probably hundred fifth years ago.

596
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: It's this massive a frame in these huge windows. It's

597
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: not even really sound proof. You can hear cars riding

598
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: by and stuff. And the second day he comes in,

599
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: he'd been working out in the morning. He comes in

600
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 1: and he goes, I have this idea for a duet,

601
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: and he he starts singing and he's showing me that

602
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: a couple of parts, and within like ten minutes were like,

603
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: I've learned the parts we've talked about, and we're kind

604
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: of like sort of singing it to each other. I

605
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: was singing Carrie's part, you know, and I was like, oh, wow,

606
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: this was great. And then we just started building a

607
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: track and it wasn't really talked about, but I think

608
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: our mutual um fascination with the new radicals really influenced that,

609
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: you know, the way that sounds and yeah, yeah, and

610
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: uh it just that song happened in just a few

611
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: hours literally, and then we did a little bit of

612
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: stuff after the fact, and then um, once he locked

613
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: in on having carry do it, it was like, well,

614
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: how where where are we gonna get the vocal done?

615
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: How's that's going to happen? And she had a day off,

616
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: she was on tour, she had a day off in St. Louis.

617
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: So I flew out there with my engineer and he

618
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: was actually Keith was actually cutting a video to a

619
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: wasted time in l A at the time, so he

620
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: faced time in. It was like this whole technology being

621
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 1: our friend again, you know, and she just nailed him

622
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: and she's singing like thirty minutes. You know. It was

623
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 1: the whole thing was pretty effortless, which not every song

624
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: is like that, and doesn't mean it's better or worser.

625
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: It's just I feel like those are the gifts when

626
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: when it's not only seemingly as a quality song but

627
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: one that people are responding to. And then the process

628
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: wasn't a huge rigg and roll, but then most days

629
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: it's a big rigg and roll. It's so advanced music, like,

630
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: but it got like you who Yeah, I assume he

631
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: try to playing the piano as a young young kid. Yeah,

632
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: you went to school on a jazz scholarship. Yeah, one

633
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: of the trumpet or trombone, trombone, trombone, what are you like,

634
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: declared greatest in the world. I don't know about that.

635
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: There there is an award college age jazz tramone award

636
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: which that sent it to loan Is. It's a pretty

637
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: small demographic, but it's still again, data is still data.

638
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: It is true data, but it by definition of what

639
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: it is. It basically it's like it's available to all

640
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: college age jazz tramone players in the world, and you

641
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: apply in your audition and I won that award is

642
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: the Frank Rosalina Memorial Scholarship, which to your point is

643
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: the greatest trombone player in the world of that age.

644
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: I guess there's dot dot but I was, well, the

645
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: only reason I actually feel comfortable talking about that in

646
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: any with any candors because it's not really what I'm

647
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: doing anymore. But it's also just to demonstrate like how

648
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: serious I was about it. This wasn't like I kind

649
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: of played trombone in high school, like all the way

650
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: up until I was about twenty one, maybe twenty two.

651
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: All I listened to is jazz, like I wasn't. Everything

652
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: else was peripheral, like my sister was listening to hair metal.

653
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: My dad was listening to some like some old country

654
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: and black gospel and oldies, and my mom was listening

655
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: to like hot a c version of country or of

656
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: Christian music like Evie, have you heard this? Or like

657
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: this very um I forgot some of the other names,

658
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: but like super hot a see just like vocalist but

659
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: Christian music. So it's like this, you know, on one hand,

660
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: you have like poison and and guns and Roses and

661
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: Deaf Leopard and all this stuff, and then you have

662
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: like Hank and Willie and Rock around the Clock and

663
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: black gospel music, and then my mom listening to like

664
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: not even that progressive yeah, like like yeah and and

665
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: and more hot a see more sort of church mom

666
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: kind of vibe. You know. So you had all these

667
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: influences and you were playing jazz were they were they musical?

668
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: My parents love music, but no, but they weren't. They

669
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: didn't sit down and and so you were not in

670
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: the band in high school, did you? I was, Yeah,

671
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: they made us parents made a piano lessons from second

672
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: grade through eighth grade, so that's six year window. We

673
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: all we all had to take them, no choice, and

674
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't it was it was almost just like understood.

675
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: It wasn't like the stories where you hear your parents

676
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: like forcing you. But we didn't have a choice, so

677
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: we just did it. Were you really good? Like we're

678
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: meaning there are things that I know. I'm like, I'm

679
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: pretty good at and I can't always get better, but

680
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: I'm pretty witty, and I can try myself to be

681
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: a better comic. But I know that I feel comfortable

682
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: and I feel I see there's something there. Did you

683
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: feel that way about the piano when you were young, Like, Wow,

684
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: I'm actually special in this. It became evident over time

685
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: because you know so much of that is your context, right,

686
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: Like you know you're witty because we respond to that,

687
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: right you. You aren't gonna be witty in a vacuum

688
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: like and I'm not gonna like know that I can

689
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: play piano well in a vacuum like it. Once I realized,

690
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: I would go to some of these recitals and I

691
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I was placing in or the higher

692
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: part of it or every teacher I had was like, WHOA,

693
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: what's going on that kind of vibe. It just that

694
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: made it more evident, and you know, and then it

695
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: became sort of through. It was interesting. We joined we

696
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: were We joined band in fourth grade and I played

697
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: baritone horn, which is a kin to a trombone, for

698
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: a couple of years, and then I got bored and

699
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: switched to tuba and then played Barry Sacks and like,

700
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: I just kept doing all these different instruments, and to

701
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: me it felt like just normal. It wasn't like this

702
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: weird thing. But as I look back, it was like

703
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: a kid that age just going okay, and I want

704
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: to play tuba now and tired of this, let me

705
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: play Barry. And the fact that my band director was

706
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: cool about that, and not only cool about it, but

707
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: helped foster that love for music really early on, you know,

708
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: as a kid, like you want to do but I

709
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: just want to make music. I didn't even know specifically.

710
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: I learned jazz in in high school. That became across

711
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: my radar and I was just like, oh wow, I

712
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: just got the bug and started. I had a couple

713
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: of friends in high school we just totally hit it off.

714
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: And we had a little jazz trio and we just

715
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: play and our and our high school band director was

716
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: amazing Mr Ernest. Mr Vigas was the middle school one

717
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: and Mr Ernest was a high school and he really

718
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: helped foster love for jazz. He's a great trumpet player.

719
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: And I was able to take jazz courses in the

720
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: evenings at the community college at a near my house

721
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: where I grew up, which also quote unquote happened to

722
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: have a world class tenor saxophonist fro New York who

723
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: became an educator and moved to Bay to the Bay

724
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: Area and then taught in part at this community college.

725
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: So it's like all this crazy like obvious, Yeah, totally.

726
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: They talk about how Bill Gates just happened to be

727
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: in the right brilliant guys totally, but happened to have

728
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: a computer tons of that town. Yeah. Well, and also

729
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: the demographic of parents that he happened to be born

730
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: to were upper middle class, which means he had the

731
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: resources to be able to access the computer at the college.

732
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: And in my own way, it's all that stuff like,

733
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: and especially because there's so many different chapters of it

734
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: that musically and all of these people like quote unquote

735
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: happened to run into, Like when I first moved to

736
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: town or I first started coming to town, excuse me, um.

737
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: I met through a friend of mine, Greg Becker. I

738
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: met Darryl Franklin, who was Dan Hoff's business partner at

739
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,479
Speaker 1: the time and still really good friends with both of them.

740
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: And that's the world I fell into quote unquote fell

741
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,239
Speaker 1: into or was introduced to, was those guys. Those are

742
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: my first publishers, Dan huff Arre Frankly Like, it was

743
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: just like, how does that happen? Well, because my buddy

744
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: who I met through, my other buddy who met through everybody,

745
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: introduced me to a couple of people, and one of

746
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: them was Darrow. Like, it's just when you look back

747
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: on your life, when I look back on my life,

748
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: let me say that it's insane to look at those

749
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: key moments, which there there have been hundreds of them,

750
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: at different little moments that have really affected where I

751
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: am and who I am. Super grateful for it, man,

752
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: and I feel like some of his divine intervention, you know,

753
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: I can't explain the wise of it. But similarly to

754
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 1: like how how was I born with a unique ability?

755
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: Like I'm like pretty okay at most things, and then

756
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: in music it just goes the spike and then it's

757
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 1: like okay, I'm back to being And then how did

758
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: that work? I didn't choose that. I mean, i've I've

759
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: I've I've worked hard to develop it. But I know

760
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: a lot of people who were carded don't have a

761
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: unique gifting in a specific area and don't get to

762
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: do it. You know, when you come to town and

763
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: Dan how by the way, I spent time with him

764
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: a couple of weekends ago and there are a lot

765
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: of us there and Dan I was like, Dan, listen,

766
00:34:58,239 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: I know there are a lot of artists here, but

767
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: you're the only to take a picture with it. Because

768
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: Dan have I mean, just his guitar. Oh yeah, he's

769
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: a he's a guitar hero literally hero. Yeah. I love

770
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: I love talking. I'm not a guitar player. Um so

771
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: do you play guitar? Not a guitar player? No? I

772
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: mean I could play acoustic, but is it like somebody

773
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: going on a golfer but then they go out and

774
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: they know I probably No. No, that's straight up, like

775
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: I know ish how to play guitar, and I could

776
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: play some my songs on acoustic. But I'm not a

777
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: guitar player, which I'm for many reasons. I'm grateful for it.

778
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: I wish I was at times, but when I hang

779
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: with Dan, it's like I just gotta hang and I

780
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: don't have the guitar nerd out. But I love talking

781
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: to guitar players about him because they just like start shaking.

782
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: And I know how amazing he is because I'm a

783
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: musician and he's like insane. I asked him. We were

784
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: sitting beside each other and we were shooting a thing

785
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: and I said, Hey, we're talking about tr record and

786
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: because Dan producing the tracks on it, I was like, really, though, Dan, like,

787
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 1: how many times are you in there when you're producing

788
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: and there's a studio and listen, to be a studio

789
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: player in Nashville, you have to be phenomenal and you

790
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: just want to go let me do it. Yeah, And

791
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 1: he was like, you know, sometimes I would go home

792
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: and I'll be myself and I would think I would

793
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: be like, I'm just going to do it with you. Musically,

794
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: do you face the same struggle sometimes where you're like, man,

795
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: I could really nail this, I can nail this keys part.

796
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: I know it will. It's funny because I probably am

797
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: strongest on piano, Like I play bass on a lot

798
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: of the records I produce, UM, but I'm definitely strongest

799
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: on piano. That's an instrument I I would actually potentially

800
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: have played professionally, but I'm I'm happy to not play.

801
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 1: And I actually really enjoy as a producer sort of

802
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: utilizing different colors because I play the piano like I

803
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: played the piano, and I know what that is, I

804
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 1: know what it sounds like, I know what I'm gonna

805
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: do because I do it and it's and it's not

806
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: always the same, but there's the similar colors that I

807
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: go for if I hire somebody else, Like this week,

808
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: I'm tomorrow, I'm cutting some tracks and Ian Fitchuck is

809
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: playing keys, and he's a brilliant multi instrumentalist. UM. He's

810
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: he plays piano in a way that's different to the

811
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: way I play piano, and he plays B three in

812
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: certain ways. He kills me on B three like he

813
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: just crushes me. Certain things I do, I'd rather have

814
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: me do it. But more more important than all of that,

815
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 1: I like the variation. So it's amazing to be able

816
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: to go give me your version of blue. Gimme this

817
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: other color that you do that I've never heard of,

818
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: and then how can I use that to help paint.

819
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: I mean it sounds lucy goosely, but that's the way

820
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: I think about it. How About I got a whole

821
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: catalog here, and once I started going, you know what,

822
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: I want to switch it up a little bit. You

823
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: know that some one I love is this one right here.

824
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: I love this song. I like Pink a lot, and

825
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: back when I was working pop because that, Yeah, it's

826
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: been a lot, that's been a lot. Uh. People are

827
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: always really cool with me because she was like human.

828
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: Oh dude, she's really cool, like in in the land

829
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 1: of the non human, which she was always really human.

830
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: You know the thing that I won't pretend to know

831
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: her super well. I've I've written with her four or

832
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: five times. Um. The thing that strikes me about her

833
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: is that she's she's an eminent professional, you know, in

834
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: a world that is um. It's not like our world

835
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: is unprofessional, but it's so um it just permeates all

836
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: of all aspects of so many people's lives. She is

837
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: a professional in the sense of, like when it's time

838
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: to get on the road. She prepares herself mentally physically

839
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: for all that stuff. And you know, if you've seen

840
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: her show, she does all this like yeah, it's insane.

841
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 1: So she gets like she gets back to her weight

842
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: training and all those things because she needs all those

843
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: muscles for all of that. Throughout normal day life, you

844
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: don't need it. And then and and you know, mentally

845
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: and whatever, and she goes and does that thing. And

846
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 1: then you know, I think her family is still around

847
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: and they travel with her. But when when she's not

848
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: doing that, she's chilling. Man, she's at home doing what

849
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 1: she wants to be doing. Apparently I'm making some assumptions here,

850
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: but it's like this this balance that is really inspiring.

851
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: You know, when we wrote she wanted to ride in

852
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: Venice because I think they have a house there and

853
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: she wanted to um be able to ride her bike

854
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: to the studio, so it was like this is the best.

855
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: You know, she literally would like ride her bike down

856
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: the main street of Venice, l a down the sidewalk

857
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: or whatever not in a spectacle kind of way, just

858
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: her path where she was going, and she would show

859
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: up at the studio and it was super low key.

860
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: There was no bodyguards. There was no just her and

861
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: so it was that like, uh too, yeah, everything we've

862
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: written his minute two way. She feel special about that

863
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: one when you wrote it? Um, that one idea that

864
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: actually I wrote with my buddy Ben West, that was

865
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: so so you've read with pick a bunch ties, but

866
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: you didn't write that one with no That one. That

867
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 1: one actually has an interesting story because she doesn't really

868
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: take outside songs. You know, she's a brilliant songwriter and

869
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: a huge hit songwriter. Um. But I had written that

870
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: song with my buddy Ben, who was literally just with

871
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: before I came here. He stand in my place here.

872
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: He was a great writer, producer, lives in Detroit, comes

873
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: to Nashville a lot as well. Um, And we just

874
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: wrote it literally outside of Detroit for like we had

875
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 1: a band we were doing for film and TV projects.

876
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: We just made a band name and started writing songs

877
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: and we're going to pitch them for film and TV placements.

878
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: And uh, that was a song that I literally woke

879
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: up with the chorus in my head and then Ben

880
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: and I got together and like flushed the whole thing out,

881
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: and we didn't know what it would be. We weren't

882
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: thinking like this is gonna be a top forty hit.

883
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: We were just thinking, like, this song feels amazing to us.

884
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: Turning into my publisher, I'd be getting all these emails like,

885
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's playing it in the Berlin office. My

886
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: buddy Thomas to be like, I'm walking down the office.

887
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: Three months later, he'd hear coming out of multiple offices.

888
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: It was like, what a trip. So my publisher then

889
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: sent it to our friend Rainey at our CIA and

890
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: we had cut that one again on another artist. Wasn't

891
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: the right fit. After the fact, I've had a couple

892
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: of other artists tell me, oh, I wanted that song,

893
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: but they wouldn't you know. And then I called Rainy

894
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: to tell her, hey, this first startist were cutting it

895
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: on Super Talented, but it's not the right fit. I

896
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: kind of need to take the song back. She was like, well,

897
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: can I keep it and play it for Pink And

898
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, please, And then we got word

899
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: that she loved it, that she was cutting it, and

900
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 1: then eventually it was gonna be your second single in

901
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: all all the stuff that they told us was gonna

902
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: happen actually happened, which I really respected about her team.

903
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: They're very like, this is what it is. Did it

904
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: help that you had a relationship with her a bit,

905
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: because again I assumed short with you because she hadn't

906
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 1: take a lot out of that song. No, I didn't

907
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: know her at the time, so this is before you

908
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: guys did that didn't make the bridge to know her

909
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: and to start writing totally. So, like you know, a

910
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: couple of years later, Um, she had been taken time

911
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: off or whatever, and I was like, man, I wonder

912
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: if she's writing again. So I literally just hit her.

913
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: We hit her up and we're like, hey, we have

914
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: this other song. There's another song in my catalog, but

915
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: I feel a special in a similar way to this song.

916
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: And she immediately responded to him put it on hold,

917
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: and we're like. I was like, oh man, here we

918
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: go again. It's gonna be amazing. Unfortunately, that song then

919
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: came off old like a year later. I would have

920
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: kept it for her for years because she's the right

921
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: artist for it. But as a result of that, I

922
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: got a call three weeks later, hey can you go

923
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: right with her for a film? And so when I

924
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: went out to Malibu where she wanted to write, and

925
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: it was for this song. This movie Suffragettes. That's an

926
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 1: incredible movie. It's about the women's movement in England in

927
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 1: the early turn of the century. And I sat there.

928
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: This is the only time I've done something like this.

929
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: I sat there at her request and watched the film

930
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: start to finish. She showed up about halfway through because

931
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: she had already seen it, and you know, big hug,

932
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: and then we pushed pushed play on the film. We

933
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: finished watching and at the end we're both literally crying.

934
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: It's like this emotional film. And then I as she

935
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: went to the restaurant, I took on my phone and

936
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: like pulled up the garage band apt to see what

937
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: key the end of the score was in, because because

938
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: we were going for the entitle and I wanted to

939
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: write in the same key. Fortunately, it was in the

940
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: key of C, which is like the best piano Kaude's

941
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: so easy to play. So I just sit down on

942
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: the piano and I started like playing chords and just

943
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: trying to create emotions that reflected what the film made

944
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: me feel. And she had, dude, she's like the again professional.

945
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: She had pages of versus. She was reading me all

946
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: these lyrical versus. They was like poetry, but they were

947
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: actual verses, and it was verse after verse. I was

948
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 1: just going, oh my god, these are amazing. But then

949
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: I'm as a writer, I'm thinking, I don't know what

950
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: the hook's going to be. I'm waiting for the hook.

951
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: Where's the hook? And just in passing sheets, she was

952
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: reading just like in Wild Hearts Can't Be Broken. And

953
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: then and I was like, that's our hook. So we

954
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: wrote this song and then we just started playing the

955
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: chorus and put it all together and it's actually on

956
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: her current album that comes out shortly. That's a cool story, dude,

957
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: she is. I like it that you watched the credits

958
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what key it is, what

959
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: can fit? Well, I wanted to be cohesive because I

960
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: wanted just seamless. I wanted to go from the score

961
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: right into her amazing voice. And that that movie is

962
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: not out yet, right or is it that? Actually that

963
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: movie came and went Sadly it was. It should have

964
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: been a bigger hit than it was. It's amazing Carrie Mulligan,

965
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep. Meryl Streep is in a movie. And it

966
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: came and went, well, I don't mean came and went.

967
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: It did its thing, but it wasn't as big as

968
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: it really should have been. It's incredible. Man, what's it

969
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: called Suffragette? I played this in right here. I think

970
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: Thomas had it first. It's funny to tell because I

971
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: love this song, and you know, how do you find

972
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: out stuff like that's not a lot of friends, I know,

973
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: but all right, so you know I go frownd right

974
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: songs and people yeah, you know, we had to do stuff,

975
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 1: and so they're always like yeah, yeah, yeah, they all

976
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: And then also song I was coming here and to

977
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 1: spill our guts totally, but they forget it's being broadcast

978
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: to millions of people. It's almost though, like you're so disarming.

979
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 1: That's that that damn it Bill. For me, I think

980
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: if you make it a thing, it's a thing, and

981
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: if you're open and honest about it, but there's no stick.

982
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: It really wasn't a thing, and and and and for

983
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: me as a writer and professionally, you know the things

984
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: that it's always funny when people make you sign India's like,

985
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: which hasn't happened that often. But it's like, by nature

986
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 1: of the fact that I want to work in this industry,

987
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 1: I'm not going to talk smack about somebody in a

988
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: public capacity. Ever, Like, why would you do that? Right?

989
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make any sense. But anyways, with to

990
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: the point with that song, it was on hold with

991
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: t R and UM. I had gotten word that Charles

992
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: really dug and this was before he had called and

993
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: they had asked me to work on their album. I

994
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: got word that he dug and he wanted to get

995
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: the demo track to put his voice on, just to

996
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: see how that worked. And I don't think that ever happened,

997
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: but I knew he was into it. And then when

998
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: they asked me to come work with him, I kind

999
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: of thought, let me put this in the back pocket

1000
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: because he asked, like, let's he was like, let's do

1001
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: maybe six songs and just see how what evolves. And

1002
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: I wanted to be very respectful of their creative process

1003
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: and not come in and just go, yeah, I know

1004
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: you guys want to write a lot of this, but

1005
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 1: here's a song you should cut. Just see what happens.

1006
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: And and the first half, you know, that first six

1007
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: would turned into the eight songs just went really well.

1008
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: I've known them for years. It was just this big

1009
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 1: family vibe basically in a great way. Did you go

1010
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: down to the House of Florida. No. Just after that

1011
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: is when I got the call um. But I had

1012
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: asked them to come to l A if they wanted to,

1013
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: and they were willing, and so they came out and

1014
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: they stayed at a place in um Hollywood Hills, and

1015
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: we worked at a buddy's home studio. It's like multimillion dollar,

1016
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: gorgeous studio in Too Luca Lake, beautiful home. He's got

1017
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: this like feral cat in the cage and like like

1018
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: this beautiful swimming pool. It was. It was a great vibe.

1019
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 1: But so we did. We did the first half and

1020
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: then come to the second half of the album and

1021
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: I just was like, you know what, I'm gonna play

1022
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: this for him. I think they need to hear this song.

1023
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: I think it'd be good for fit for what's going on.

1024
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: And in the meantime, I had been in communication with

1025
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: Virginia seeing what TRS was. Yeah, Thomas manager, she's awesome,

1026
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: And ultimately it was like, you know what, he loves it,

1027
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: but it's just not right for what he's want to

1028
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: do or whatever. So it's like no problem. And then

1029
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 1: and soon and then while up playing it for for

1030
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: them and they were like, is it is our first single?

1031
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: I mean, Charles, as you know, is so energetic and

1032
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: so in the moment something I really admire and um

1033
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: appreciate about him. And in the context of them, they

1034
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: all have their superpowers. One of his is that like,

1035
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you what I'm thinking. It's gonna be real,

1036
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: it's gonna be energetic, it's gonna be right now. And

1037
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 1: immediately it was like, this is gonna be our first single,

1038
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: and I was like, that would be awesome. Sure enough

1039
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,760
Speaker 1: it was so. I mean when the record gets nominated

1040
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: for Record of the Year, I mean, that's it. That's

1041
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: the thing. Yeah, that felt Really it's gratifying. Man. I

1042
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: was talking to my publisher today. I'm I'm grateful for

1043
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: recognition of our art. You know, I don't I don't

1044
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: live for awards. They actually all I put them all

1045
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: in my closet, besides the ones I've given to a

1046
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 1: few family members. I'm grateful for them. I'm not trying

1047
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 1: to diminish them, but I just put them there because

1048
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a reminder of what happened, and

1049
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: I'm looking for what's going to happen next, you know,

1050
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 1: And I don't want to ever like rest on any

1051
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 1: accolades or any of those types of things, but those

1052
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: types of awards where it's like, of all the albums

1053
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: that happened, we're gonna nominate this is one of them.

1054
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: And especially for them in that process, they were they

1055
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: were taking a chance and a lot of things that

1056
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: they were doing and wanting to turn a page and

1057
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: and uncover some new Earth. And and when that's recognized

1058
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 1: in a way that feels impactful, it's like, Okay, we

1059
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: weren't out of our minds. You know, well listen, they

1060
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: took a chance at just sonically, horns of horns. That's

1061
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: a chance. But it's funny, man, the other side of

1062
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: that story. You know, I didn't even put horns on

1063
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: that song because I'm a trauma player. Like I don't

1064
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: walk around thinking that I'm a horn player. Like I

1065
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: haven't been. You donna understand, man, I'm I haven't been

1066
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: a trauma player in any professional or really I mean

1067
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: I haven't literally proactively played the trauma for probably eighteen

1068
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: years or something like that. Like I literally just set

1069
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 1: it down. It's like being a track star. You have

1070
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: to work at it every day or or and it's

1071
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: that frustrating. If you don't work out, you're not going

1072
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: to run fast, so would lose it. So I didn't

1073
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 1: put horns on there because I'm a trauma player. I

1074
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 1: put horns on there because I was like, this would

1075
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: be rad to have horns. And we wrote it with

1076
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: Ryan Hurd and Hillary thinking it would be for Ryan

1077
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: at the time. And Ryan had played a show, Um,

1078
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: Derek Wells does these nights over I think it's the

1079
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: Basement Niece where their themed nights, and this was the

1080
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: nineties night and and I don't want to specify what

1081
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 1: song it was, just in case there's any weird connections,

1082
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: but he had played a song and with a band

1083
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: it had a certain feel that had really nothing to

1084
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: do with the original version, but it just felt like,

1085
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: oh my gosh. And we felt inspired by that, and

1086
00:48:58,200 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: I was like, we should have a song that feels

1087
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: like that for you, you know, And so um, we

1088
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: wrote it with Hillary and and then ultimately, for whatever reason,

1089
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: it wasn't right for Ryan. And then you're like, but

1090
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 1: then everything lands where it's supposed to land. Man, it's

1091
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 1: hard to it's hard to believe that when things aren't connecting.

1092
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: But it's always true. You know this one here, I'm

1093
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: going one. I mean, you wrote this one. This is

1094
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: how early in the national process was this for you?

1095
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 1: It was early maybe well four or five years maybe

1096
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: something like that. Okay, see you've been here because I've

1097
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: been coming to Nashville for eleven years. Like when I

1098
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:40,479
Speaker 1: say coming to Nashville, I mean a week a month

1099
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: for eleven years. That's a grind, like just trying to

1100
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: regardless of the world, that's a week. That's a that's

1101
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 1: a good publisher gave me a private jet. So it's

1102
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:53,280
Speaker 1: been can you imagine? Not amazing? It's Southwest Man every

1103
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: literally every month and list right at this point like

1104
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: stay list with a companion exactly, dude with a buddy too.

1105
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: The best is the best. So you talk about morning

1106
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: Yeah Hunter Hunter was, um, you know, this is his

1107
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: first album, so there wasn't I mean, first album in

1108
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 1: Nashville proper and on a label and all that stuff.

1109
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: But you know, and it was I was given the

1110
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: prep of like, yeah, he's like this, he was a

1111
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 1: boy wonder you know, zydeco multi instrumentalists whatever. He comes

1112
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 1: in and he's just like this, super energetic, really nice

1113
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: dude who's obviously multifacetedly talented, and we just had that

1114
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 1: idea came up and it was with Gordy and Hunter.

1115
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: I remember we wrote in that shack where Gordy's written

1116
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: a lot of great songs over the years, and uh,

1117
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,399
Speaker 1: it just came out. It was just one of those

1118
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, you never know, man, not never, but like try.

1119
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: I wrote Try and my Buddies Buddies Studio an hour

1120
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: and a half outside of Detroit, thinking it was this

1121
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: and it becomes this, and like you just try to

1122
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: show up and write the best song you can and

1123
00:50:52,120 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: hope it lands. How about this one? See if there's

1124
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: an emotion where it's almost like I read this book

1125
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: called I'm Okay, You're Okay, and I'll go a little

1126
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 1: cycle battle on your for a second because I enjoy

1127
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,399
Speaker 1: cycle battle. But they talk about when you hear a song,

1128
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: your brain reacts, even for a split second, it puts

1129
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: you back to the place that you were whenever you

1130
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: heard it for the first time, you created it, whatever

1131
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: it is like for it just a split second, you

1132
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: feel that again. And I watched your face and your

1133
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: head turn when you heard it again, even though you've

1134
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: heard it ten thousand times. Tell me about this never

1135
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: gets old to me, Like it's just it's special for

1136
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons, like Marin was the first artist.

1137
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: I do artist development as a profession, right, it's signed

1138
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 1: people to me, Carly's part of that process. Marin was

1139
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: prior to that in this in a professional sense, but

1140
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: being there so early on it emotionally had a lot

1141
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: of that same connection, you know, and seeing her in

1142
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: those early days I remember. I mean, I've told people

1143
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 1: when I first heard Marin's sing it was Lucy Silvis's house.

1144
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: It's a long story, but let me tell you the

1145
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 1: quick version. My friend Nadine, who is day to day

1146
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: with Shakira is like a manager, came to town and

1147
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 1: I wanted her to experience Nashville. It's full that she's

1148
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: a wonderful person. I wanted to like pull out all

1149
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: the stops for her. So I was like, you gotta

1150
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: go see a writer's round. But none of the rounds

1151
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:20,879
Speaker 1: that I saw for that week where people I had known,

1152
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: or things or whatever. So I was like, we'll just

1153
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: put one together, which I don't even know why I

1154
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: thought to do that, It just seems to make sense.

1155
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: So I hit up Lucy, John Green, Barry Dean, all

1156
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: of whom are very soulful singers, great songwriters. And we

1157
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: decided to do Lucy's house, Lucy and John's and East

1158
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 1: Nashville's tall ceilings like this with brick walls, very reverberant

1159
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: old house. And she and I were talking a little

1160
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: bit about it and Lucy and she goes, you shouldn't

1161
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:45,320
Speaker 1: I had that girl, Maren. You know you wrote with

1162
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 1: her a couple of weeks ago. She's great, you should

1163
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 1: hear her, you know. I was like, okay, great. So

1164
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: I called Maren and was like, hey, I know we

1165
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: only wrote once, but you want to come do this thing?

1166
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: And and the five of us with my friend Nadine

1167
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: and her friend, John's manager, and my wife, nine of

1168
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: us were in the house just going around and it

1169
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: felt like we're at either Bluebird or anywhere. I mean,

1170
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: it was that awesome for all of us there. We

1171
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 1: were such fans of each other. But when I heard

1172
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: Maren sing her songs with her lyrics, it was I mean,

1173
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: I wasn't there when chery Crow was discovered. I wasn't

1174
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: there when Adel was discovered, but it felt like that

1175
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,479
Speaker 1: urgency and that importance, like straight up. I remember telling

1176
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: my wife. I called Derek Wells the next day. It

1177
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 1: was like, dude, I've never heard anything like that. I've

1178
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: never heard somebody sing like this. I've never heard somebody

1179
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 1: communicy like I have to be a part of this,

1180
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. And then I called her up.

1181
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, what what's going on? Are you doing the

1182
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: artist thing? Like and can I produce? I'll do anything,

1183
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: like I'll pay for the players. I don't get like

1184
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: whatever if the money is an issue, let me help,

1185
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: Like I just want to be involved. And she's like,

1186
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: let's write and see what happens. And we did and

1187
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: that evolved. In long story short, it turned out that

1188
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: I produced the project, most of the projects. Some of

1189
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: it we co produced with Brad Hill, who was amazing,

1190
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 1: and she co produced it and it it's so much

1191
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 1: of our hearts were put into it because it was like,

1192
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: you know, when you there was no clear path. We

1193
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: didn't know what it was gonna be. It took you know,

1194
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: she didn't have a label deal at the time. You

1195
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:07,919
Speaker 1: know she got signed to the deal. It took people

1196
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: like you playing that song like all that stuff happened

1197
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 1: to then make it the hit commercially that it was.

1198
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: But I'm still connected back to the beginning of it

1199
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,439
Speaker 1: and it all came together, do you know what I'm saying?

1200
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: And I wonder the emotion like, well, when I played

1201
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 1: it again, I saw emotion for a split second. Well,

1202
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:28,839
Speaker 1: what's the give me? Give me the word gratitude. Truly, man,

1203
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: that that song helped solidify some stuff for me. You know,

1204
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: it's it. I came up as a record producer and

1205
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: a songwriter, and I'm not I don't own either one

1206
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: of those things. I don't. It's not like their mind

1207
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 1: to own. And I made a conscious decision to focus

1208
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: on writing because I like the lifestyle better. I like um,

1209
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: if I had to choose one of the two, I

1210
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 1: would choose songwriting. And I decided if I would ever

1211
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: be able to produce again, that it would flow out

1212
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: of the songs. And that was the first song that

1213
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 1: I produced that had a huge impact, truly, I mean

1214
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: that was That was the first hit I had as

1215
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: a producer, but even as a song like being there

1216
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:11,840
Speaker 1: when she walked in the studio that day, it was

1217
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: at my place in Glendale in l A. She had

1218
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: been driving up the pch and she comes in and

1219
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: she goes, I want to write a song called my Church.

1220
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: And I was thinking, Oh, that's cool. What's that about.

1221
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: She said, when I drive in the car and on

1222
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 1: listening to music, I I love I feel like I'm

1223
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: connected to God. It feels like church to me. And

1224
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, I literally picked up a guitar

1225
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: and was like, can I get all because that's a

1226
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: that's a phrase, you know, Can I get an amen?

1227
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: And she just starts singing the rest of the chorus

1228
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: and we worked on in a bit and then she

1229
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 1: writes the verses while I'm working on a track and

1230
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: take an hour and a half later we had finished

1231
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: it and she sacal sing a vocal in thirty minutes

1232
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: and it was just and because another beauty of it

1233
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: is like and I like all sides of it. Man,

1234
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: It's not that I only like staying under the radar

1235
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: and stay away from our creative process. I enjoy also

1236
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: when it's pressurizing. Is it's a new challenge, right. But

1237
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: that was so under the radar. There was no label

1238
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 1: deal in place, there was no specific expectation outside of

1239
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: us other than those who knew what was going on.

1240
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: We wanted to be great her thing, you know, but

1241
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: there was no like has to sell this, manure has

1242
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: to do this. It was just we're doing what we

1243
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: think is her and what's going to resonate. You know,

1244
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 1: you talk about Marin, let's talking about Carly for a second.

1245
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,359
Speaker 1: With her same kind of thing. You wrote it, then

1246
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: you produced it. This song is special for a lot

1247
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: of reasons. To me. We wrote this with Emily Shackleton,

1248
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 1: who's an amazing songwriter. I mean, this is fun not

1249
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,280
Speaker 1: mistake in her first top ten as well as Carl's.

1250
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: And you know Daniel my my publisher, Daniel Lee, who's brilliant.

1251
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 1: He brought her to me because we've made a conscious

1252
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: decision to invest in developing an artist. After the marinthing happened.

1253
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 1: It was like, wow, I loved that process. I hadn't

1254
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 1: done much artist development in that pacity or I hate

1255
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 1: to say it about Marion like that she is an artist,

1256
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: but I was involved early on. That's all I'm saying.

1257
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: With Carly. Okay, with Carly, it was it was um,

1258
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: you know, she had so many things in place, but

1259
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: there was you know, the music wasn't quite right yet.

1260
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: You know when she knew that. She came to us going,

1261
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 1: this is what I want to be doing, this is

1262
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: what I have, and we played she played it for us,

1263
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, there's a discrepancy here, let's

1264
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: figure out how we can figure that out. But she

1265
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: had also at the time, Um and man, it's it's

1266
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: it's it sounds like I'm gushing. I'm not trying to gush.

1267
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 1: You have been so helpful too with female artists, man,

1268
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: Like that is that's near and dear to my heart,

1269
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: because I love all kinds of artists, but I love

1270
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: amazing singers, and historically a lot of the amazing singers

1271
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: are females. Not that there's not great male singers, but

1272
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: like you think of all the way back El Fitzgerald,

1273
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: Billie Holiday, Whitney, you know, like I mean, go on

1274
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: and on and on, there's you know those types of

1275
00:57:54,680 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 1: voice type singers, you know, big voices, Um and Carly everyone.

1276
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: It said, No, basically she'd been here since she was eighteen,

1277
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: busting her ass, like not sitting on her but kind

1278
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: of going, kind of working and kind of hoping it's

1279
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:10,919
Speaker 1: gonna happen and who's gonna win? As you know, only

1280
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: fully Bobby could play my independent song and I'll become

1281
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: There was none of that. It was literally like busting

1282
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 1: her ass doing the thing, and that, more than anything

1283
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: is what drew Daniel and myself to her as the

1284
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: work ethic, you know, and that because that's that's really

1285
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: what separates the men from the boys. You and I

1286
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: were talking earlier about our schedules. It's insane, you know that, man,

1287
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 1: we have to work crazy pants did to do this thing. Um,

1288
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,439
Speaker 1: But for her, the key was really unlocking the mutic

1289
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: the music, and that song was a song that we

1290
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: had written where it was like I remember her coming

1291
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: over and Emily was coming over, and I was like,

1292
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: we don't have any ballads, which is never the case, right,

1293
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: I went up tempos and I was like and and

1294
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: quite frankly, we were inspired by the fact that Cam

1295
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: was working and that beautiful and I was like, of

1296
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: course it's working. You have a great voice, you have

1297
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: an amazing, haunting, beautiful song. Why would it not work Conceptually?

1298
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: I know it's not that easy, but it was like,

1299
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: all right, let's try to do that that descriptor haunting, beautiful,

1300
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: amazing song ballad with an amazing voice, and that song

1301
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: is the song that came out that day, and it

1302
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 1: just I mean, anybody who has worked hard and had

1303
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 1: success deserves it. But that girl, that girl deserves it. Man.

1304
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:19,439
Speaker 1: It's been amazing to be a part of that story.

1305
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: And Emily too. I mean, it's like that stuff. It

1306
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 1: just I remember having my first hit that was amazing.

1307
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 1: I was driving up to to introduce my then fiance

1308
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: girlfriend shortly to become a fiance to my parents. Now

1309
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 1: she's my wife, and on the way up, Darryl called

1310
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 1: and said, hey, Rascal Flats is Summer Night's the next single.

1311
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh man, And that was one

1312
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 1: of the best feelings as a career wise, you know,

1313
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: but better than that, bro, And you probably know this.

1314
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: Seeing someone you care about or involved and invest in

1315
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: them having a hit. That's just like anyways, it all

1316
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: the first hit period. Yeah, first single, let's say Radiohead,

1317
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: you know it was. And it was the first first

1318
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: radio single I had in a commercial sense. I had

1319
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 1: other songs that were released independent radio or that kind

1320
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 1: of thing, but the first like you know, commercial record

1321
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: label going to any sort of sort of proper commercial radio.

1322
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 1: People in the city can be like, I heard your song,

1323
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: first time that Pittsburgh call, You'll be like, yeah, it's funny.

1324
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: I always think of that song people talk about the

1325
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: Eagle Cooler. You know that line's he's saying iglue cooler,

1326
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: but it sounds like eagle cooler. A lot of people

1327
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 1: have like, what's the eagle Cooler? I'm like, what are

1328
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: you talking about? We wrote that on Gary's back porch

1329
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: with Brett James. That was a fun day at Lavox's house. Yeah. Yeah,

1330
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: Gary's funny. Huh oh, he is one of the funniest

1331
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 1: people ever. Yeah. I would see him. We used to

1332
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 1: live about four houses down from each other before I moved,

1333
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: and he would go work out in full camouflage, like

1334
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: long sleeve, here's go. Wait. He would go work and

1335
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: and the first time I was and I've told this

1336
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: part of the story, there's some kind of actors like

1337
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: to keep way but at me and for Camo, when

1338
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: I was like, who's working out for me? And it

1339
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: was Gary? And but then I would see him there

1340
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: again working out with full camo and like, what are

1341
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: you like, Oh, it's just the clothes that laying around,

1342
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 1: So I put them on and now it's like he disappeared,

1343
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 1: like when they're not working. Oh dude, Gary disappears into

1344
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 1: the woods and it's like, good luck finding them totally. Man.

1345
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: He actually, yeah he is. He's a big hunter. He's

1346
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 1: a yeah, he's he's a really good guy. Man. They

1347
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: I gotta say they they were the first artist in

1348
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: talent to really believe and invest in me, like um

1349
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:39,479
Speaker 1: Jodon had heard some stuff I had written and sung

1350
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: the demos too. Back then I was seeing a lot

1351
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: of my own songs demos because Dan had played him

1352
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: a song or whatever. However that worked, and so he

1353
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 1: reached out to ride with me, and then Jay and

1354
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: then Gary and written with every combination of them, and

1355
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: my first song, my first cut was with them, commercial cut.

1356
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:57,479
Speaker 1: It was a song called Better Now that with Greg

1357
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 1: Becker and Daryl Brown. And then first single was with him. Literally,

1358
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: I mean sort of happens stantially in that regard. But

1359
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: they've they've been amazing to me. Man, They're just we're

1360
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: talking about singers, and I know you produced this song

1361
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: here and I did that. I was on the radio

1362
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 1: is talking over the last couple of weeks. And I

1363
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: just like to make lists and I like less to

1364
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: be controversial sometimes, you know, I like people talking at

1365
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 1: the point of it. But I did this whole list

1366
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 1: of underrated artists, and it's subjective, comply subjective. I think

1367
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: I just saw this today, whoever I want, you know,

1368
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: and it's my opinion. It doesn't it's not right, it's

1369
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: my right. But I put Lauren on there because when

1370
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: she's listen, there are in the landa fantastic singers. Then

1371
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 1: there's Lauren Atlanta, and there's the other one percent of

1372
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 1: the one percent, and she's in that, and so you're

1373
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: producing and I didn't know what I saw the whole eyeballs. Yeah,

1374
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: you know, she's I was with Keith the other day

1375
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: and he's a car guy and he, you know, we

1376
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: were talking about a Bugatti that's some friend of his

1377
01:02:57,920 --> 01:02:59,959
Speaker 1: hat or whatever, and it's like, she's that a voice

1378
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 1: is like she is the the elite race car of voices.

1379
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, and there are a lot of

1380
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 1: awesome race cars that costs a lot of money, but

1381
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,919
Speaker 1: then there's that. Yeah, this particular Bugatti I think sold

1382
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: for like eight million pounds. It was so rare. But she, yeah,

1383
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 1: she has so few limits to what she could do vocally.

1384
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: It's insane, Like it is literally insane, and that was

1385
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: an interesting part of our process. You know. Of course,

1386
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 1: when you're making a record as an aside, you it's

1387
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 1: like being in camp, you know, like you go to camp,

1388
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 1: you all become this family for a period of time,

1389
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 1: and then someone blows the whistle and goes camps over

1390
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 1: and you're like, crap, man, we have to go home.

1391
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 1: And then you miss each other and then and you're like,

1392
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 1: what happened? We had so much fun at camp, you know.

1393
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 1: But anyways, when we were making that record with her, um,

1394
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 1: she'd come out to l A to record some vocals,

1395
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: and you know, again to keep the analogy going, it

1396
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 1: was like I had taken the Bugatti out to the

1397
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 1: track and the engine was sputtering, and I'm like, what

1398
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 1: the heck is going on? This is a finally tuned machine.

1399
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 1: And she was having vocal challenges and what ultimately want

1400
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: up being she had a vocal surgery, which understandably, she

1401
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 1: was super freaked out about that because that's like, that's

1402
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: not only her livelihood, but it's her passion, like and

1403
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 1: you know, she that's who she is, and I you know,

1404
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: I couldn't guarantee her of anything. I'm not a doctor,

1405
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: but I was like, I've had multiple friends go through that.

1406
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 1: I bet you anything, it'll actually be better on the

1407
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: back side, not just back to where you were, but

1408
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 1: even better. And yeah, and she's got more control even

1409
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 1: and more and how do you improve on what she had?

1410
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: But it's crazy, man, her her naturally born and obviously

1411
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 1: she's worked on it too, but naturally gifted ability is

1412
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: just like out of control. She would the throat inside,

1413
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 1: the throat was like a vagina, and she would send

1414
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 1: me pictures of her throat and I would for a second,

1415
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 1: and I knew she wasn't sending any picture of vagina.

1416
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 1: Whenever someone sent you that picture. And I haven't even

1417
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: seen that many vagina. You're like, I've gained She's like,

1418
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: I'm able to sing places now that I wasn't able

1419
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 1: to say. And she already these kids and she's she

1420
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: was definitely kid what you want the talent show to

1421
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: go on these talent shows, and you gave right, people

1422
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: of the talent show culturapy. You have to be able

1423
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 1: to sing to go on these live talent shows and

1424
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 1: be successful. And so it's like when the Daniel Bradberry

1425
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:19,760
Speaker 1: is the Lauren Elena Is and Kelly Picker blow the

1426
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 1: roof off the place singing, and so Lauren is that

1427
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 1: and then plus yeah, no, she it was. The amazing

1428
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 1: part about working with her is that there was so

1429
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 1: I don't think there was anything I could ask her

1430
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 1: to sing that she couldn't do. That's and Mary would

1431
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 1: probably say the same thing in the sense of like

1432
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: I'm always telling them there's things they can do that

1433
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 1: they don't think they can do, not because I'm trying

1434
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 1: to be silly, because I feel like I understand how

1435
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 1: far they can go and try to push that in

1436
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 1: a sense usually hitting a particular note or whatever. But

1437
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: then some of the trick too is learning how to

1438
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: go because I mean Lauren's Lauren could do anything like vocally,

1439
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 1: so she'll be like she'll be listening back to her

1440
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 1: takes and like singing riffs over the top of them

1441
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 1: that she could. And so it's almost like also knowing

1442
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 1: like when to to do to restrain yourself, because just

1443
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 1: because you can go a hundred eighty miles an hour

1444
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that's what you should do on you know,

1445
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 1: if you're gonna drive your Bugatti down to the road,

1446
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, so it's as a producer.

1447
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: That's part of the trick is being not the governor

1448
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: like it's my call, but like helping her know where

1449
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: those parameters should be, you know, and really gunning it

1450
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: so to speak at those right times. Keep taking on

1451
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 1: the batmobile. You gotta go drive. He let you drive it.

1452
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: You know. It's it's kind of embarrassing. I can't fit

1453
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 1: in that thing that he has, that butt. If you're

1454
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 1: talking about the bigott, yeah it is. It's it's like tiny.

1455
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 1: I'm six ft four, two fifty pounds, Like I'm a

1456
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 1: big dude. Man. Did you try to get it? Literally?

1457
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 1: I mean when I say I can't fit in it,

1458
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 1: I can fit it, but I couldn't drive it comfortably

1459
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: to drive it right? He would have probably let me.

1460
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 1: He's the best man. Like, it's just what's the goal?

1461
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:54,920
Speaker 1: Like that? What's the goal? To stay married to the

1462
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: same woman and be a good husband and father? Truly?

1463
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 1: That's it, Like all this other stuff I'm grateful for

1464
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 1: and I get obsess over. I love what we do.

1465
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: It's not that it's not important. It's stupidly important. But

1466
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 1: if if you're gonna ask me that, I think as

1467
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: big picture as I can, and that's what I come

1468
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: up with, like I want I want to be there

1469
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 1: at seventy when you know, Bobby Bones doesn't call me

1470
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 1: and going hey, be on my podcast because I'm seventy

1471
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,920
Speaker 1: and no one cares who I am with that woman

1472
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 1: with those kids thriving, you know, and um hopefully living

1473
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 1: a life where people go that dude impacted me. He cared,

1474
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, because it's like all this other stuff is amazing. Man.

1475
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: I get I get a produced, I gotta write songs

1476
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 1: and people pay me to write songs and produced records.

1477
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 1: It's incredible. That's what I was made to do. I'm

1478
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 1: so grateful. But it's not even just a conversation of

1479
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 1: like how quick does a song go off the radio?

1480
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 1: Like who who was the Grammy Award winning a song

1481
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 1: of I would take me hours of asking people without

1482
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 1: googling it. No one would know though it was the

1483
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 1: biggest thing, and it was huge and impactful and it

1484
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 1: matters to everybody. I'm not saying it's no longer important,

1485
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 1: but what's important in that regard comes and goes. I'm curious, now,

1486
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: let's see if let's let's just take a guess my

1487
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 1: google it with the Grammy Award when I might have

1488
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 1: my years off. But I do know what I think

1489
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: the song. Let me let let me see what I

1490
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 1: can do that nine Now I gotta think aware. Yeah,

1491
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 1: but I would go to where the is just something

1492
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 1: that I can that I know? Yeah it is? Can

1493
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 1: you show me? I want to make sure I've looked before. Yeah,

1494
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:35,759
Speaker 1: I'll wait for you. Yeah, I want to work backwards.

1495
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: Kiss from a Rose that's not early nineties, that's like yeah,

1496
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 1: that's like I guess it's like three maybe, yeah, Okay,

1497
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 1: eighty nine was pre I'm gonna go with the Bodyguard.

1498
01:08:55,960 --> 01:09:01,680
Speaker 1: That's nineties. It's early Yeah, it is. It's tricky. And

1499
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 1: you know what's another tricky. What's all theo tricky about

1500
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 1: that time is the songs that we tend to remember

1501
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: are like the rack ish leaning ones that weren't the

1502
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:11,599
Speaker 1: grand typically the Grammy Award winning songs of the year.

1503
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 1: This song, if it's the one, I'm thinking it was

1504
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 1: a huge song, but it sounds like it should have

1505
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 1: come out before that. I don't even know what is it?

1506
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:24,680
Speaker 1: What do you think it is? If it's the right

1507
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: one as Women in My Wings, But I might have

1508
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 1: the wrong year. What is it? Oh, that's a bad example,

1509
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 1: the example that happens, because we do still love it.

1510
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 1: But it's like, you know, the point remains the stuff

1511
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 1: that I mean that is just pre eminently important in

1512
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 1: our work comes, it goes. And I don't mean that flippantly. Man,

1513
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 1: It's not like nothing matters because you can go you

1514
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:52,519
Speaker 1: can go all lamentations on it, which truly in the

1515
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 1: grand scheme of things, what is anything, you know, But

1516
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,640
Speaker 1: it's not actually just the work that matters, you know.

1517
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 1: It's the relationships. It's the the heart, you know, and

1518
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: that's something that it's it's tricky to remember that stuff.

1519
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 1: I struggle with that because it's if if, like you

1520
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,200
Speaker 1: did ask me, that's what's really the most important to me.

1521
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 1: But sometimes my life only reflects the business part of it,

1522
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 1: you know, as opposed to the relational part of not

1523
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 1: that the relationships don't matter, but like prioritizing and taking

1524
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: the moment and going like how are you doing? Man?

1525
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 1: Like what's really going on? Like are you are you good?

1526
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 1: Like is everything cool? Do you need to talk? I'm here?

1527
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 1: You know, Because that stuff matters, man, that really does,

1528
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:32,679
Speaker 1: and it's not again that's the stuff that happens behind

1529
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 1: closed doors, in secret you're never applauded for, you know,

1530
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: but those are the things that echo echo heaven, so

1531
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:42,240
Speaker 1: to speak. You know, that's that's the stuff that matters

1532
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 1: when it's like I'm stuck or I'm in trouble with

1533
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 1: the law, but like, yeah, creatively I'm in trouble. Like

1534
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 1: I don't I don't really know who's your who's your guy,

1535
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 1: who's your girl? Um, I mean I talked to my

1536
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:58,000
Speaker 1: wife about that stuff. I talked to my publisher, my pastor,

1537
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 1: my best friends. You know, I'm just all of its

1538
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:05,439
Speaker 1: one big conversation truly, and and several other several writer friends,

1539
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 1: you know. Um. The thing I've learned or been learning

1540
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:14,640
Speaker 1: is whatever I struggle, typically it's not unique to me.

1541
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 1: Just because we don't talk about it in normal conversation

1542
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 1: doesn't mean other people aren't going through the same things.

1543
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 1: You say that, And so I wrote this book, right,

1544
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:24,040
Speaker 1: And I wrote a book and it did well, it

1545
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 1: was the best seller for a while. But I was

1546
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 1: really nervous and putting it out because I felt very

1547
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:31,840
Speaker 1: alone in my story because I grew up a kid

1548
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:34,680
Speaker 1: and my I didn't have a dad, and my mom

1549
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 1: was a drug addict and she died in your forties

1550
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: and I was and we went through some very tough times,

1551
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 1: and I thought, I'm going to tell the story. And

1552
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:44,599
Speaker 1: I felt very alone in my entire life. I felt

1553
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 1: very like nobody knew what I had been through. And

1554
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,799
Speaker 1: it created this humongous chip on my shoulder because nobody

1555
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 1: knew what I had been through. I put this book out,

1556
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 1: and first of all, I was like, man, nobody's gonna

1557
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 1: do you. I will go do show stand up tells

1558
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:58,599
Speaker 1: people come up to me and go, you told this story.

1559
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:02,680
Speaker 1: I had this same story. Anyway, blows my mind. I

1560
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 1: spent my whole life thinking I was alone. And then

1561
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 1: when I put this out and people people would consume it,

1562
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 1: the amount of people that come and go, hey, you're

1563
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 1: not alone liked. I was like that what you said

1564
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 1: there is what I experience now with something. And even

1565
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:19,680
Speaker 1: the radio show where I'm talking, I'm vulnerable and I

1566
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 1: say things and I think God and no one, Yeah,

1567
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 1: same thing, and what you said there is the other

1568
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 1: part of it. Even if like your exact story is

1569
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,639
Speaker 1: not my story, but when you throw the vulnerable card

1570
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 1: on the table, it creates an environment where oh, I

1571
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 1: can be vulnerable, you know, And I'm learning that myself.

1572
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 1: Like often we have to lead, we have to go

1573
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:41,960
Speaker 1: no one's being vulnerable, but I'm feeling what I'm gonna

1574
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:43,720
Speaker 1: just say it. Hey, are you guys struggled? Do you

1575
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:45,640
Speaker 1: think that you're never gonna have hits song again? Or

1576
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 1: that everyone thinks what you do as a joke or

1577
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 1: whatever it is, you know, and everyone starts to go, wait,

1578
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 1: you're you feel that too, I feel like, and we

1579
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 1: start you able to talk about those things and just

1580
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:58,519
Speaker 1: sort of like, um, put the pen in a little bit,

1581
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 1: so to speak, because you know, we're all creatives and

1582
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:03,679
Speaker 1: as such, our brains are a little like extra walky,

1583
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 1: and it comes with the tax, the emotional tax, right

1584
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: of having to deal with some of these extra insecurities

1585
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 1: and extra fears. I mean, we all have insecurities and fears,

1586
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 1: but it's just seems somewhat heightened with creatives. I always

1587
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 1: say it, to be different, you really have to be different,

1588
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,719
Speaker 1: Meaning if you want to be different than the rest,

1589
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 1: you don't just go and be different, then you're the

1590
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 1: same with the rest of you, like totally, like I'm

1591
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 1: a weird human, but that weirdness allows me to do

1592
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: different types of things and where I can flourish in

1593
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 1: certain areas, I really struggle in others totally. But that's

1594
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:36,880
Speaker 1: what makes me different. Like for me to be different,

1595
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:39,800
Speaker 1: I am different, and something that's tricky about that, or

1596
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 1: let me just speak for myself. It's been tricky because

1597
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 1: being this dude is like I was a gazz dramon

1598
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 1: player and I write pop songs and country songs and

1599
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:52,640
Speaker 1: produced and publishing business and music and altogether it's like

1600
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:54,519
Speaker 1: there's not it's not like you can just go, oh,

1601
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna build a career just like this person, which

1602
01:13:56,880 --> 01:13:58,760
Speaker 1: you can't do that to begin with. But when you're

1603
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 1: sort of doing you, the path isn't laid out, and

1604
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 1: it's sort it's scary, it really is, because everything and

1605
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:07,040
Speaker 1: me constantly wants to go like who can I look

1606
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 1: to who's done the thing? And I definitely have mentors

1607
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:11,640
Speaker 1: and people I admire like Dan and other people like

1608
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 1: that who I can call and have these real types

1609
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 1: of conversations with, and but Dan Hus's career is totally

1610
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:20,759
Speaker 1: different than the career I'm working on and where that's headed.

1611
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 1: And even if I try to replicate his career. It's

1612
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:25,960
Speaker 1: not possible. You know, his just unique to him, and

1613
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 1: mut Langs is unique to him, and Quincy's to him,

1614
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 1: and Da da da da da. It's everybody. You know.

1615
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm in that I'm but you can't

1616
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 1: hear on the podcast. My hand is going up because

1617
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 1: those are the super producers you know, that you look

1618
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 1: up to, and like those you just have you do you,

1619
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:47,639
Speaker 1: you know, because this is the other way I started

1620
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 1: to look at It's the cheesest thing to say, but like,

1621
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,599
Speaker 1: I'm the best Buzzby that's ever existed. I'm a horrible

1622
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 1: Bobby Bones. You're the best Bobby Bones that's ever existed.

1623
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:57,800
Speaker 1: You'd be a horrible me. And vice versa Mike, Like,

1624
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: it's you gotta be you, you know, and we need

1625
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 1: that everyone. I need you to be you, you need

1626
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 1: me to be me. I need you to be you.

1627
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:08,400
Speaker 1: I appreciate the conversation. Man, you're way smarter than I am.

1628
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 1: Some times, to sit beside somebody, I was hoping you're

1629
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:12,479
Speaker 1: gonna say way smarter than I thought I was gonna.

1630
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: I was gonna hug you. And it was just like

1631
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:18,760
Speaker 1: sit with people and there are times where I talk

1632
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:20,160
Speaker 1: and there are times where I shut up because I

1633
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:22,360
Speaker 1: feel like I can learn. It's definitely one of those

1634
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 1: times if I just shut up and just just just

1635
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:26,479
Speaker 1: took some notes, like I really appreciate the time. I

1636
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 1: know you're a busy dude. I know you got so

1637
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 1: I appreciate you stopped by and shedding the knowledge like

1638
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:33,840
Speaker 1: I felt like I didn't went to a match, like

1639
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 1: I paid a hundred bucks for a Steve Martin master class.

1640
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 1: I love Steve Martin creatively and in so many forms.

1641
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:45,320
Speaker 1: He was selling out stadiums doing stand up when it

1642
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 1: just didn't make sense to you because you couldn't see

1643
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 1: him and you couldn't hear him. You can just a

1644
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 1: p a literally, I mean yes literally. So you know

1645
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 1: I bought the master class and I enjoyed it, but

1646
01:15:57,280 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 1: I paid a hundred bucks for it, right, I love

1647
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 1: Steve Martin but a lot. I just got a free

1648
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 1: Buzby master class here. Hi, thanks man, thanks for having me,

1649
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,679
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming in my episode This Mine eighty four.

1650
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:12,719
Speaker 1: That's Buzzby or is I call him Mike? Does anybody

1651
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 1: call you what? Your Dan huff insists on trying to

1652
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 1: call me Michael Michael, and he's trying to make as

1653
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 1: many people call me that. So Keith's been calling me Michael,

1654
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 1: and anyone Dan can influence to call me Michael. He

1655
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,960
Speaker 1: thinks it bothers me. It doesn't. But thanks Dan, Thanks everybody,

1656
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:28,400
Speaker 1: Thanks for thank you,