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Speaker 1: Do not throw up your hands when it's time to

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Speaker 1: roll up your sleeves. It's just the nature of it all.

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Speaker 1: So knowing that good I'm up for a good fight,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: Yes, welcome back to she Pivots. I'm Emily Tish Sussman.

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Speaker 2: I'm coming to you live from the Democratic National Convention.

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Speaker 2: And I thought what better way to celebrate the historic

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Speaker 2: campaign and hopefully election of Vice President Kamala Harris than

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Speaker 2: to re release her episode. We recorded her interview two

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Speaker 2: years ago on stage in her running mate Tim Walls's

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Speaker 2: home of Minnesota. I was joined by the Lieutenant Governor

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Speaker 2: Peggy Flanagan, who will become the governor if Harris Walls

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Speaker 2: are elected. And if that happens, Flanagan will make history

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Speaker 2: as the first ever female Native American governor. So we're

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Speaker 2: re releasing this timely conversation. It was originally our season

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Speaker 2: two premiere. I'm excited to bring the episode back and

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Speaker 2: share some of Vice President Harris's insights on some of

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Speaker 2: her personal experiences that influenced her decision to go into politics.

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Speaker 2: Aside we don't often see as she hits the campaign trail,

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Speaker 2: I know there is no one better qualified to be

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Speaker 2: President of the United States. I knew it then, I

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Speaker 2: know it now. This is such a special episode to

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Speaker 2: me and an incredible experience. I can't wait to one

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Speaker 2: day tell people that I interviewed the first female president

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Speaker 2: in the history of America. Such a crossover from my

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Speaker 2: political days to now podcasting enjoy. Vice President Kamala Harris

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Speaker 2: has been in public service for several decades, ever since

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Speaker 2: she started her career as a young prosecutor in San Francisco.

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Speaker 3: With a ninety percent conviction rate.

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Speaker 4: Superstar prosecutor, Kamala Harris made history when she was elected

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Speaker 4: California's first African American female district attorney.

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Speaker 2: She then set her sights on statewide office and announced

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Speaker 2: her run for Attorney General of California. Then in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 2: she announced her run for the Senate, launching her into

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Speaker 2: the national spotlight. After her short success in the Senate,

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Speaker 2: she announced her candidacy for president in January of twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 1: And that's why we are here today. And that's why

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Speaker 1: we are here today. I stand before you today to

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Speaker 1: announce my candidacy for president on the United States.

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Speaker 2: Fast forward a few months into twenty twenty, the COVID

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Speaker 2: nineteen pandemic was at its peak and the country was

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Speaker 2: grappling with a racial reckoning, and Joe Biden had to

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Speaker 2: announce his running mate, promising to select a woman. The

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Speaker 2: decision was delayed and delayed again, with reports swirling that

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Speaker 2: he would choose Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer over Harris, but eventually,

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Speaker 2: on August eleventh, twenty twenty, Biden announced that he had

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Speaker 2: chosen Kamala Harris as his running mate.

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Speaker 5: The presidential candidate Joe Biden has made his choice.

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Speaker 3: NBC News is confirmed that Biden.

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Speaker 5: Has picked California Senator Kamala Harris to be his running mate.

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Speaker 6: First of all, is the answer yes?

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Speaker 1: The answer is absolutely, And I am ready to work.

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Speaker 1: I am ready to do this with you.

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Speaker 2: For un The Biden Harris ticket one in November twenty twenty,

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Speaker 2: and Kamala Harris was inaugurated as the first female Black

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Speaker 2: Asian American vice president in United States history on January twentieth,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: We did it, Joe, You're going to be the next

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Speaker 1: president of the United States.

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Speaker 3: Is a historic moment of firse.

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Speaker 1: To administer the oath to our first African American, our

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Speaker 1: first Asian American, and our first woman Vice President, Kamala Harris.

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Speaker 4: It is my great privilege, I Kamala Davy Harris, do

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Speaker 4: solemnly square, I.

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Speaker 1: Kamala Davy Harris desomly swept.

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Speaker 4: That I will support and defend the Constitution of the

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Speaker 4: United States.

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Speaker 2: Threw every up and down. She stepped into each role

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Speaker 2: knowing that she could impart change and have a real

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Speaker 2: lasting impact on people. But I wanted to understand the

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Speaker 2: catalyst that set her up on that path to the

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Speaker 2: White House.

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Speaker 7: She started by telling us a.

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Speaker 2: Story about how one of her high school friends inspired

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Speaker 2: her into the work. Was there a moment in your

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Speaker 2: life that you thought, Yes, this is the thing that

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Speaker 2: is going to change my perspective, and I'm going to

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Speaker 2: do it.

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Speaker 1: One of my best friends in high school, while we

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Speaker 1: were in high school, I learned that she was being

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Speaker 1: molested and I immediately said to her, well, you have

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Speaker 1: to come live with us. And I called my mother

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Speaker 1: and I was like mommy, and she was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she has to come live with us, and so she did.

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Speaker 3: And I learned what it was and.

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Speaker 1: Just one the horrendous nature of what was happening in

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Speaker 1: terms of the act itself, but also the effect and

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Speaker 1: which is you know, there's so many layers to it.

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Speaker 1: But the powerlessness that also is a part of it,

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Speaker 1: that that one is rendered to feel as though they

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Speaker 1: are powerless in many anyways. That was one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I became a prosecutor, which is was born out

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Speaker 1: of a feeling that, you know, you have to right

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Speaker 1: certain wrongs and address certain injustices and protect people who

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Speaker 1: are vulnerable and deserve the autonomy of their bodies and

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Speaker 1: their life.

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Speaker 2: Vice President Harris has never backed down from a fight,

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Speaker 2: something she said she learned from her mother.

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Speaker 1: My mother had two goals in her life to raise

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Speaker 1: her two daughters and to end breast cancer. So she

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Speaker 1: was a breast cancer researcher, and you know, one of

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Speaker 1: the few women as a scientist, and the few women

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Speaker 1: of color. And my mother was always fighting for the

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Speaker 1: right for women to have dignity in the healthcare system.

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Speaker 1: But she really she saw so much that was about

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Speaker 1: the disparity in terms of the treatment of women, taking

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Speaker 1: them seriously, giving them dignity through the process. So from

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Speaker 1: my earlier stages of growth and development, I was aware

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Speaker 1: of this issue.

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Speaker 3: And cared about it.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, through my career as a prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: the vast amount of my work and priority was on

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Speaker 1: crimes against women and children and so and then the

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Speaker 1: Dobbs decision came down.

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Speaker 6: The Supreme Court has reached a decision on the landmark

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Speaker 6: Roe v.

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Speaker 3: Wade case. The ruling is on a.

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Speaker 6: Case called Dobbs versus Jackson Women's Health Organization. It's Mississippi

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Speaker 6: and hyperbole suggests a very solemn moment today. The Supreme

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Speaker 6: Court of the United States expressly took away a constitucor

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Speaker 6: right from the American people that had already recognized. They

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Speaker 6: didn't limit it, they simply took it away.

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Speaker 3: And I was actually traveling out of side of.

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Speaker 1: DC, and as as soon as it came down, I

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Speaker 1: actually called my husband and I was in an absolute

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Speaker 1: you know, we knew it was going to come because

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Speaker 1: of the Elked decision, but it was still.

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Speaker 3: Unimaginable that it actually happened.

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Speaker 1: You know, that the highest court in our land, the

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Speaker 1: United States Supreme Court, took a constitutional right that had

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Speaker 1: been recognized from the people of America, from the women

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Speaker 1: of America. So much about the progress of our nation

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Speaker 1: when we have tracked. It has been measured by the

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Speaker 1: expansion of rights, and now we are saying an intentional

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Speaker 1: restriction of rights.

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Speaker 3: What is that saying about the trajectory and the direction

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Speaker 3: of our country.

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Speaker 1: There's so much at stake with this seemingly one issue

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Speaker 1: that actually is chock full of issues that should con us.

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Speaker 2: My girls are two and four, and I think about them.

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Speaker 2: They were my thought when the Dobs decision came out,

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Speaker 2: and I think about the fact that they're growing up

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Speaker 2: with fewer rights than what I had, with fewer rights

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Speaker 2: than their grandmother had.

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Speaker 7: What connects you to bring you into this fight?

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Speaker 1: Well, like you, our twenty three year old daughter will

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Speaker 1: have fewer rights than my eighty one year old mother

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Speaker 1: in law.

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Speaker 3: And they're both acutely aware of it.

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Speaker 1: I understand why it is important when we are looking

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Speaker 1: at this issue, because you see where the state has

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Speaker 1: laws that can protect individual rights, we would want and hope,

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Speaker 1: as patriotic Americans that the person who has the power

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Speaker 1: to enforce those rights and protect those rights will value

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Speaker 1: and appreciate their responsibility. In states, they're criminalizing healthcare providers. Doctors, nurses,

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Speaker 1: health care providers are being criminalized with laws that are

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Speaker 1: being proposed and passed that would literally put a healthcare

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Speaker 1: provider in jail on this issue.

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Speaker 3: What is going on?

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Speaker 1: So who is in Congress to your point of federal, state,

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Speaker 1: and local really matters. We have to look at it

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Speaker 1: in terms of what are we doing to and so

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Speaker 1: this is part of how we've been addressing it, is

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Speaker 1: to address it in terms of really deconstructing the issue.

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Speaker 1: We have to recognize how much is at stake for

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Speaker 1: everyone in our country. I read the decision including Clarence

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Speaker 1: Thomas's words. Clarence Thomas said the quiet part out loud.

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Speaker 1: He literally said, this opens up the next steps, which

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Speaker 1: are to re examine, which means question, which means attack

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Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned to.

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Speaker 3: Contraception and the right to marry the person you love.

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Speaker 1: So let's bring everybody together, though, because we are picking

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Speaker 1: up there was a movement that started that culminated in

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Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade, like you were saying, you know, when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about and we can talk about our family members,

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Speaker 1: our mothers, grandmothers, it is now our responsibility, all of

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Speaker 1: us to pick that movement up.

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Speaker 3: And to take it to the next step.

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Speaker 8: This rally in Denver body, This one in Louisville, just

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Speaker 8: a few of many demonstrations happening across the US, with

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Speaker 8: more planned over the weekend. Abortion whites, some with very

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Speaker 8: personal reasons for showing up.

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Speaker 1: And I know that there's will effect work in class

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Speaker 1: black women and people more than anybody else.

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Speaker 7: You know, you mentioned what's at stake. There is so

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Speaker 7: much at stake.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about a lot of it here, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of the issues that are coming up like it's

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Speaker 2: not it's we're seeing them in a lot of the

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Speaker 2: same places.

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Speaker 7: So what are you seeing from your perspective?

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Speaker 3: As Vice President?

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Speaker 1: I have now met either directly in person or by

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Speaker 1: phone with one hundred world leaders.

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Speaker 3: My staff has been counting.

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Speaker 1: Presidents, prime ministers, chancellors, and kings. And the thing about

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Speaker 1: those meetings is that when we walk in those rooms

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Speaker 1: representing the United States of America, we walk in those

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Speaker 1: rooms chin up, shoulders back with a certain level of

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Speaker 1: authority to talk about the significance of democracy, the importance

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Speaker 1: of rule of law, the importance of human rights, freedom

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Speaker 1: of the press.

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Speaker 3: But what comes with that is also.

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Speaker 1: The fact that everyone here won't understand and know which

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Speaker 1: is We then hold ourselves out to be a role model.

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Speaker 1: The thing about being a role model people watch what

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Speaker 1: you do to see if it matches what you say.

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Speaker 1: So thinking then about the issue of this moment of

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Speaker 1: our discussion, which is what the courts just did and dabs.

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Speaker 3: One of my great fears is that autocrats around the world.

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Speaker 1: Can then look at their people and say, you want

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Speaker 1: to talk about these rights, you want to talk about

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Speaker 1: your United States of America.

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Speaker 3: Look what they just did.

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Speaker 1: And in that way the impact will be not only

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Speaker 1: for the people of America, but potentially people around the world.

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Speaker 2: When I was preparing for this interview, it was clear

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Speaker 2: to me that the Vice President wanted to stay focused

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Speaker 2: on the issues, but I wanted to make sure that

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Speaker 2: I had an opportunity to explore a different side to her.

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Speaker 2: And although she was focused on taking action and resolving issues,

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Speaker 2: she was in fact relatable. I remember the specific moment

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Speaker 2: when she talked about the venn diagrams.

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Speaker 1: So among the many things that I like, I love

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Speaker 1: ven diagrams.

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Speaker 3: You know the three circles. I love ven diagrams. I

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Speaker 3: just like, just throw it into a ven diagram.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you everything you need to know about any issue,

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Speaker 1: especially where there is you know, you're trying to understand

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Speaker 1: the intersection and the connections, right. So I asked my

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Speaker 1: team to prepare a VENN diagram for me, and the

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Speaker 1: challenge I gave them is tell me from which states

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Speaker 1: we are seeing an attack on women's reproductive health, from

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Speaker 1: which states are we seeing an attack on voting rights,

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Speaker 1: and from which states are we seeing an attack on

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Speaker 1: LGBTQ rights.

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Speaker 2: The three circles of the ven diagram showed a significant

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Speaker 2: overlap of the states where all three restrictions of rights

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Speaker 2: were happening, and this moment also became somewhat of a

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Speaker 2: viral sensation.

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Speaker 1: What that also tells us is there is an incredible

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Speaker 1: opportunity for coalition building, right for bringing in all the

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Speaker 1: folks that have been fighting for reproductive health rights and

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Speaker 1: maternal health rights, all the folks who've been fighting for

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Speaker 1: voting rights, all the folks who've been fighting who successfully

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Speaker 1: fought for marriage and now we still have a lot

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Speaker 1: of work to do in terms of trans rights and

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Speaker 1: everything else, but bring everybody together.

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Speaker 2: At what point did you think I can bike a

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Speaker 2: bigger impact in a bigger stage.

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Speaker 1: When I ran for DA one of the reasons I

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Speaker 1: ran was big because the incumbent hadn't and there should

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Speaker 1: have been a whole division set up to deal with

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Speaker 1: child sexual assault. There needed to be greater attention being

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Speaker 1: given to the issue of domestic violence.

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Speaker 2: Vice President Harris was born as the daughter of an

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Speaker 2: interracial couple in the sixties. Her mother, who was an

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Speaker 2: accomplished breast cancer researcher, had met her father through the

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Speaker 2: civil rights movement, so basically action was in her blood.

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Speaker 1: So it was kind of the same idea, which is, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: I'll do it right, and I mentor a lot of

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Speaker 1: people because when I ran, there had never been a woman.

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Speaker 1: This is San Francisco, California, with all of the reputation

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Speaker 1: it has, there had never been a woman.

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Speaker 3: There had never been a person of color.

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Speaker 1: When I was elected DA of San Francisco, I was

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Speaker 1: the first black woman to ever have been elected any

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Speaker 1: DA of DA anywhere in the state of California.

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Speaker 5: Thirty eight year old Kamala Harris came out of nowhere

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Speaker 5: and was swept into office in San Francisco's District Attorney,

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Speaker 5: and as she did, she made history. She was the

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Speaker 5: first woman ever to be the city's top prosecutor, and

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Speaker 5: she is the first African American in such a job

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Speaker 5: ever in the state of California.

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Speaker 1: Most important things don't come easy, so it's not going

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Speaker 1: to be a cake wak. There's a lot of.

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Speaker 4: Work to do.

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Speaker 1: And so you can imagine when I decided to run

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Speaker 1: and I took on an incumbent, the number of people

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Speaker 1: that said to me, oh, they're not ready for you.

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Speaker 3: It's not your time.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be hard work, pride, and I didn't listen.

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Speaker 3: And with all of the people that I mentor, I

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Speaker 3: say them.

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Speaker 1: I just had a group of students actually yesterday that

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Speaker 1: I was talking with and I said, look, don't you

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Speaker 1: ever hear no unless And then they were a little younger,

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Speaker 1: so I said, unless it comes from your.

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Speaker 3: Parents, but.

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Speaker 1: Don't ever hear no that it can't be done or

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Speaker 1: no one like you did it. And then I have

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Speaker 1: this saying, I say, you know, look, I eat no

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Speaker 1: for breakfast.

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Speaker 2: I have to admit one of the many reasons I

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Speaker 2: left my career in politics was due to burnout. Not

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Speaker 2: only were the hours unsustainable, but the emotional weight felt heavy.

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Speaker 2: It's something I know that many of us experienced. After

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, so I wondered how she kept going through

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Speaker 2: it all. The first political thing I ever did was

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Speaker 2: I was in college during the March for Women's Lives

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Speaker 2: and I went down. I was supposed to go down

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Speaker 2: with my mother and my grandmother, And as I was

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Speaker 2: on the way down, we went to go pick up

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Speaker 2: my grandmother and my grand so we are literally passing

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Speaker 2: it along, and my grandmother said, oh, I've marched enough.

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Speaker 3: It's your time, right, So you know.

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Speaker 1: But there's also there's a quote that all I paraphrase

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Speaker 1: all the time, and I will do that here from

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Speaker 1: Kreta Scott King, who famously said the fight for civil rights,

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Speaker 1: which is again, it's the fight for justice and equality, freedom,

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Speaker 1: the fight for civil rights must be fought in one

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Speaker 1: with each generation. And I think there are two points

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Speaker 1: to that. One is it is the nature of it

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Speaker 1: all that whatever gains we make, they will not be permanent.

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Speaker 1: So the second point then, is therefore understanding it is

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Speaker 1: the nature of it all, do not be overwhelmed, do

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Speaker 1: not be tired, do not throw up your hands when

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Speaker 1: it's time to roll up your sleeves.

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Speaker 3: It's just the nature of it all.

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Speaker 1: So knowing that good I'm up for a good fight,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So I have to put on my magazine editor

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Speaker 2: at hat here and ask you how you must be exhausted,

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Speaker 2: Like how do you keep going?

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Speaker 7: Do you have like a routine here? Like what do

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Speaker 7: you do?

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Speaker 1: I work out every morning, all right, no matter how

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Speaker 1: much sleep I get, I just have to.

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Speaker 3: It's for me.

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Speaker 1: It's mind, body and spirit and just But it's not

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Speaker 1: I mean, just half an hour on the elliptical usually

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Speaker 1: that's when I catch the morning news.

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Speaker 3: I love to cook.

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Speaker 1: When I have the opportunity and the time to cook,

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Speaker 1: it's just so therapeutic.

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Speaker 3: And you know, you got to work stuff out. You

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Speaker 3: just chop chop, chop, chop chop.

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Speaker 7: Who are you envisioning on that shopping board.

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Speaker 2: As we began to wrap our interview, it was important

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Speaker 2: to bring in hope.

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Speaker 3: Well gives me?

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Speaker 1: Hope is our willingness to fight for this country that

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Speaker 1: we love.

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Speaker 3: That gives me.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to tell you why there is so

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Speaker 1: much about this issue again, all of the layers to

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Speaker 1: this issue.

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Speaker 3: That the fact that this is about.

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Speaker 1: As much as anything, our democracy and the state of

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Speaker 1: our democracy. And I think that I think of democracy

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Speaker 1: as being there are like two sides to it.

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Speaker 3: There's a duality to it.

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Speaker 1: On the one hand, when the principles upon which our

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Speaker 1: democracy was founded, freedom, liberty, justice.

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Speaker 3: When a democracy is.

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Speaker 1: Intact, it is extraordinarily strong and the power it gives

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Speaker 1: the people. The duality is that, on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: it is extremely fragile. This democracy. It is only as

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Speaker 1: strong as our willingness to fight for it.

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Speaker 3: What gives me hope.

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Speaker 1: Is I know we are prepared to fight for it.

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Speaker 3: That gives me hope We're not gonna let it go.

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Speaker 7: Madam Vice President, Madame Lieutenant Governor.

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Speaker 2: This has been i'd say, my favorite live episode of sheephivots.

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Speaker 7: Thank you so much and thank you.

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Speaker 3: For having us. Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 2: What a conversation. You're probably thinking, now what do I

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Speaker 2: do next? Okay, first thing is check your own voter

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Speaker 2: registration at vote dot org.

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Speaker 7: We think we're registered all the time, but actually.

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Speaker 2: States just kick us off the voter rolls when we

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Speaker 2: don't know it. Next step, check on your friends. Make

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Speaker 2: it part of a normal conversation. Have you checked to

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Speaker 2: see if you're still registered to vote? I'd say, especially

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Speaker 2: if they live in some of those big swing states

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Speaker 2: and now get your voting shoes on, Ladies, we got

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Speaker 2: to go. And if you haven't been following she Pivots

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Speaker 2: the Podcast on Instagram, I'm giving you behind the scenes

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Speaker 2: content all week at the DNC check it out.

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Speaker 7: Thanks for listening to this episode of she Pivots.

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Speaker 2: If you made it this far, you're a true pivoter,

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Speaker 2: So thanks for being part of this community. I hope

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Speaker 2: you enjoyed this episode, and if you did leave us

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Speaker 2: a rating, please be nice. Tell your friends about us.

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Speaker 2: To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram

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Speaker 2: at she Pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our

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Speaker 2: newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content,

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Speaker 2: or on our website, she Pivots the Podcast Talk to

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Speaker 2: You next week. Special thanks to the she Pivots team,

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Speaker 2: Executive producer Emily Edavlosk, Associate producer and social media connoisseur

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Speaker 2: Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and Logistics coordinator

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Speaker 2: Madeleine Sonovak, and audio editor and mixer Nina Pollock.

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Speaker 3: Hi endorse Cheap Pivots