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Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Sometimes you sit back as

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Speaker 1: a crime scene investigator and you try to observe things

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Speaker 1: from the perspective of a clinician, somebody that's kind of cold,

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Speaker 1: that goes in and just wants the facts. But there

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Speaker 1: are those cases that I don't know, tease your humanity

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Speaker 1: out of you at the scene, those things that you

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Speaker 1: look at them and you think, how in the world

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Speaker 1: could this possibly have happened. Today, we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about a mother and a wife by the name of

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Speaker 1: on A wash We're gonna talk about her disappearance, her

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Speaker 1: possible homicide, and her dismemberment. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and

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Speaker 1: this is Body Backs. Joining me today is my friend

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Speaker 1: Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie,

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Speaker 1: I know that you, like much of the country, has

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Speaker 1: been following this case or sometime. I think that we're

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Speaker 1: left again with the case where we've gotten more questions

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Speaker 1: and answers. What do you think about that? I think

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Speaker 1: you are absolutely right. The disappearance of on A Walsh

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Speaker 1: has so many more questions than answers, Just like Jennifer

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Speaker 1: Doulos up North this woman disappeared, I mean literally disappeared.

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Speaker 1: One day, she was here, next day, cannot find her.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of similarities between these two cases. Is

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Speaker 1: for that. But on a Walsh left her home. She

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Speaker 1: was seen leaving her house with her bags in hand.

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Speaker 1: She worked at a different location. She was a real

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Speaker 1: estate professional. She had taken on a new job in

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Speaker 1: the Boston area, and she actually traveled from her home

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Speaker 1: in Massachusetts weekly to go for this position. So she

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Speaker 1: was last seen leaving her home with bags in hand,

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Speaker 1: according to her husband. And what happened to her after

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Speaker 1: that is the question. She has not been seen. She

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Speaker 1: did not make the flight, she did not make her

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Speaker 1: new job, so they missed her in the office. That's

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Speaker 1: when the questions began. That's where our investigation needs to begin.

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Speaker 1: How do we start that timeline, Joe, I don't know

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Speaker 1: that it's necessarily starting the tomline as much as it

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Speaker 1: is location. You know, I know that those two things

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Speaker 1: are kind of married together. You've got a husband that's

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Speaker 1: actually stating, and he was very pacific. He said she

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Speaker 1: left the house in either an uber or lift. Let's

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Speaker 1: back up to that, because now you've got again here

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Speaker 1: we go again, Jackie, we've got a digital footprint, because

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Speaker 1: if you were allegend that she left in an uber

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Speaker 1: or left and though not only do you have a

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Speaker 1: digital footprint, you're what your alleging means that you would

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Speaker 1: have a physical witness to her getting into the vehicle

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Speaker 1: with you to be transported somewhere. So if that's what

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Speaker 1: is being put forth, then that would be solid information

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Speaker 1: to go on. But there's no indication that she was

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Speaker 1: seen by anybody getting into the vehicle to go somewhere.

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Speaker 1: So where do we begin, Well, we begin the home.

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Speaker 1: We begin where an individual lives, where they're domiciled. You know,

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Speaker 1: you have to think that that's the last place she

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Speaker 1: was seeing. So what could have occurred within that home

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Speaker 1: that would have essentially led to her total and complete disappearance,

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Speaker 1: Like you mentioned just a second ago, it seemingly just

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Speaker 1: vanishes off the face of the planet. Well, you peg

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Speaker 1: that one pretty well, Joe, because now we know that

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Speaker 1: Anna Walsh's husband, Brian has been charged in her disappearance.

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Speaker 1: The beginning of that suspicion from police began in the

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Speaker 1: basement of the home, it did, and you begin to

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Speaker 1: look for things like physical evidence that can begin to

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Speaker 1: turn up. One of the things with death investigation, and

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Speaker 1: I think that for many reasons, it goes back to this. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: people in literature use this a lot as a device.

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Speaker 1: You look for blood, don't you. Blood is always associated

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Speaker 1: with either the loss of life or you know, at

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Speaker 1: least the diminishment of life to some degree, particularly if

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Speaker 1: you wind up would say, for instance, a tremendous amount

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Speaker 1: of blood that you fund at the scene. And there's

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Speaker 1: a term that's used. We've talked about it before on bodybacks,

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Speaker 1: but it bears repeating, and that is the idea of

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Speaker 1: the amount of blood that you have at a scene

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Speaker 1: gives the appearance of an event being incompatible with life. However,

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Speaker 1: at least to this point, I don't know that there

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Speaker 1: is that much blood evidence. Although there was blood evidence

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Speaker 1: found at the home that would give an indication that

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Speaker 1: something very troublesome happened there in the basement. I would

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Speaker 1: think that a bloody knife found in the basement would

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Speaker 1: indeed give an indication that something bad happened. From a

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Speaker 1: forensic standpoint, we hear about this a lot in cases.

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Speaker 1: There's a couple of cases out there right now where

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Speaker 1: I think that many times, the general public begins to

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Speaker 1: think about, well, you have blood, so therefore you can

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Speaker 1: get an arrest warrant and arrest somebody. That's not the

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Speaker 1: way it works, not in forensics at least, if you

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Speaker 1: find something that you believe is in fact blood, you

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Speaker 1: have to verify that, don't you. You have to do

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Speaker 1: what is referred to as presumptive testing on an item

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Speaker 1: that might have blood on the surface, say for instance,

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Speaker 1: with a knife, or if you have a piece of

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Speaker 1: cloth or even a droplet on the floor. You cannot

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Speaker 1: just simply assume that that is first off, that it

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Speaker 1: is blood. So that's our first step. We have to

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Speaker 1: go in and take a look at that sample and

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Speaker 1: see if it is in fact blood, and then from

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Speaker 1: that point you can move on to the next level,

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Speaker 1: which is where we're going to take a look at

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Speaker 1: it from the perspective of, well, we verified that it

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Speaker 1: is blood, but is it human blood? Because you can

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Speaker 1: have animal blood as well if you have pets in

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Speaker 1: the home. There's a couple of cases out there where

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Speaker 1: people were deer hunters, they track blood into the house

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Speaker 1: and it turned out not to be human it was

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Speaker 1: actually dear blood. So you have to be able to

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Speaker 1: whittle that down. Well, if you establish that it is

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Speaker 1: in fact human blood, you go to the next level

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Speaker 1: of testing, which of course begins to lead into well

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Speaker 1: typing the blood, what blood grouping does it fall into?

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Speaker 1: And if you have a missing person, if you try

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Speaker 1: to say, okay, well what blood group would on a

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Speaker 1: fall into and hopefully you can establish that, and then

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Speaker 1: of course then you're going to have a DNA fingerprint

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Speaker 1: as well. Relative to that, what about the age of

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Speaker 1: the blood, Joe, I know you've probably told me this before.

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Speaker 1: Can they tell did this happen last week, has happened

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Speaker 1: five years ago? What can they tell? Blood is a

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Speaker 1: curious substance because it's multi layered. It contains several elements

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Speaker 1: to it that actually make it blood. And much of

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Speaker 1: this relative to attempting to determine how old it is,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be heavily depended upon not so much

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Speaker 1: time as it is exposure. What this sample has been

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Speaker 1: exposed to over a period time. You can go back

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Speaker 1: and take a look at samples from long long ago.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, famously, we're able to take

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Speaker 1: a sample of President Lincoln's blood and actually do a

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Speaker 1: DNA profile on it. So, yeah, you can take historic

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Speaker 1: samples even and essentially profile them. So in a case

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Speaker 1: that is this fresh, Remember Anna has only been missing

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Speaker 1: since January the first, so it's not like we've got

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Speaker 1: someone that has been missing for six months, a year,

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Speaker 1: or two years. This sample would still be viable at

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Speaker 1: this point in tom and I think that that's what

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Speaker 1: they're dealing with. But when the officers came into the

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Speaker 1: basement and they see a substance that they think is blood,

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Speaker 1: and given the amount of time that Anna has been missing,

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Speaker 1: it would have more than likely been dried. So when

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Speaker 1: they see that based on the color, can they look

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Speaker 1: at that and go, oh, that happened yesterday, Oh that

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Speaker 1: happened two weeks ago, Oh that happened six years ago.

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Speaker 1: How does what they see? What clues does that give

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Speaker 1: an officer? There's a certain level of dehydration that occurs

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Speaker 1: with blood, depended upon how long it's been down and

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Speaker 1: again it's completely depended upon environment a factors, And you

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Speaker 1: can kind of eyeball it and get an idea that

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Speaker 1: if you've got a sample that has gotten to the

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Speaker 1: point where it has gone from brilliant red to brown,

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Speaker 1: and then there's another phase where it will essentially go

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Speaker 1: to this kind of brown cracked appearance where it and

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Speaker 1: this is why why this is so difficult when you're

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Speaker 1: you're eyeballing what you think is a blood sample, because

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Speaker 1: it can actually look like chocolate, believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: and it goes from this kind of brown cracked appearance

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Speaker 1: to flaking. But here's the problem. There is no and

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Speaker 1: I repeat, there is no definitive time marker that you

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Speaker 1: can place on that where it is an absolute okay,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have a lot of wiggle room. And one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons is is that you cannot account for

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Speaker 1: all of the environmental influences that have taken place in

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Speaker 1: in surrounding that environment. We're talking about Massachusetts. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: would be cold outside, but conversely, are you running the

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Speaker 1: furnace in the house and you've got the sink cranked

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Speaker 1: up so that it's so hot in there that it's

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Speaker 1: going to cause changes in any kind of biological element

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Speaker 1: that you have have around. If you've got garbage that's

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Speaker 1: got I don't know, a piece of chicken in it,

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Speaker 1: for instance, and you've you've got the heat jacked up

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Speaker 1: in the house, it's going to promote the decomposition of

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Speaker 1: that piece of chicken, whereas if it was cooler, it

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Speaker 1: would preserve it longer. So it's it's gonna be completely

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Speaker 1: totally environmentally dependent. You've got a missing wife. As an investigator,

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Speaker 1: where do your eyes go first? I'm not talking about

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Speaker 1: at the scene. I'm talking about information. I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: where are you gonna go? What's the well spring of

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Speaker 1: data here to find out what exactly happening in this case? Jackie,

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Speaker 1: I think that those answers are going to rest with

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Speaker 1: a husband. They are, and police again have taken the

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Speaker 1: husband into custody. And it's strange to me if you

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Speaker 1: look at what friends, neighbors, family say about this man,

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Speaker 1: they all received a strange vibe about him. He didn't

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Speaker 1: want his picture taken, he wasn't friendly. The town there

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Speaker 1: where the Walsh has lived. People in the shops there,

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Speaker 1: shop owners like pizza parlor, and in another restaurant there

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Speaker 1: say when they came in that Anna was extremely quiet,

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Speaker 1: she didn't speak a lot, and that he as well,

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Speaker 1: just kind of gave off a creepy vibe, is how

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Speaker 1: they describe it. So she goes missing. The police find

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Speaker 1: blood in the home, that they now believe shows that

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Speaker 1: he murdered and dismembered. Anna, where do you go from here? Joe?

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Speaker 1: Her body is missing. I mean you can get rid

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Speaker 1: of a body a thousand ways. How do you track

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Speaker 1: what he did? Next? When you go to the scene

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Speaker 1: and you begin to dig around its scene and you

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Speaker 1: suddenly realize that you don't have what's referred to as

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Speaker 1: a corpus delecti, that is the body of the evidence,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to expand your search from there. If

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Speaker 1: the police were to suspect that the husband was involved

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Speaker 1: in any level, they have to begin to track his movements.

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Speaker 1: You know you had mentioned, and rightly so. Just a

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Speaker 1: moment ago they found this knife in the basement. And

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Speaker 1: one little appeased to this that we didn't mention is

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Speaker 1: that this knife was bent. You get a bent knife

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Speaker 1: and it's got blood on it. That means that probably

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Speaker 1: you could make an intellectual leap scientifically and say this

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Speaker 1: knife was probably involved in some kind of vigorous behavior,

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Speaker 1: that the knife was not necessarily meant for this purpose.

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Speaker 1: And when you begin to think about taking a part

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Speaker 1: of body, which is what the police are at least

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Speaker 1: thinking has happened, and that goes to this idea of

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Speaker 1: you're in a fever, you're using the tools that you

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Speaker 1: have at hand, and the tool is not meant for

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Speaker 1: the job, so therefore it's going to bend and it's

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Speaker 1: going to potentially break. In this case, it didn't. But

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Speaker 1: what other elements are you looking for? Well, there's a

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Speaker 1: rug that they have apparently found that had blood on it.

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Speaker 1: And here's one more thing, and this is key. There's

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Speaker 1: evidence that the husband had gone to a store and

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Speaker 1: it's purchased about Get this, I don't know how much

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Speaker 1: you've spent on cleaning supplies, Jackie. He spent four hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars allegedly on cleaning supplies. You know how much cleaning

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Speaker 1: supplies do you need in order to accomplish a task.

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Speaker 1: That gives you an indication that maybe, in this fevered state,

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Speaker 1: he's just attempt need to cover all of his bases.

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Speaker 1: He's going to use everything that he possibly can in

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Speaker 1: order to clean up this mess, and it would have

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Speaker 1: been a big, big mess. Well, as police continue their

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Speaker 1: investigation into things that Brian Walsh had bought, we also

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Speaker 1: find that he bought a hax all. You know, we've

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Speaker 1: talked about the use of hack saws in the past

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Speaker 1: on bodybags. When you begin to look at this in total,

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Speaker 1: you think, well, what's the purpose, Why would you choose

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Speaker 1: this particular instrument, Why would you bring it to bear

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Speaker 1: as a post to say, for instance, a carpenter saw

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Speaker 1: or limb saw. With hack saws, they have different blades

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Speaker 1: that can be applied to them. Now we don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: know at this point in time the specifics about the

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Speaker 1: type of blade that was on this particular hack saw,

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Speaker 1: but it is essentially something that you can work with

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Speaker 1: in a very tight, fine space. It's not going to

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Speaker 1: leave as big a mess. Say, for instance, if you

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Speaker 1: really go over the top and you're using some kind

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Speaker 1: of electrical saw, a saws all or maybe a circular

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Speaker 1: saw and this sort of thing so you can kind

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Speaker 1: of keep it contained. You have to think, well, was

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Speaker 1: he thinking about this? Is he thinking about using a

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Speaker 1: hacks all where you can kind of diminish the amount

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Speaker 1: of evidence that you're going to leave behind or not.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of a fascinating point here. I'm can

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Speaker 1: I ask you something that's kind of morbid, But then again,

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Speaker 1: what we talk about is kind of morbid. If you

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Speaker 1: were going to dismember a body, What is the end

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Speaker 1: result going to be if you do it when the

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Speaker 1: body has only been deceased for a couple of hours,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to if the body has been deceased for days.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm, Well that's an excellent question. Here's what my

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Speaker 1: thought is on this. First off, you've got two sides

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Speaker 1: to think about here. If it is immediately afterwards, the

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Speaker 1: blood that remains in the body is not going to

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Speaker 1: be See how can I term this? Not as viscous

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Speaker 1: or thick as it would be after the body has

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Speaker 1: been decomposing for a while, and so therefore it's going

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Speaker 1: to be in more of a liquid state closer to

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Speaker 1: life than it is to a decomposition and advanced decompositional state.

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Speaker 1: So that's going to create a problem. You'll have more

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Speaker 1: blood to clean up, if you will. All right, now,

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Speaker 1: we're not even talking about any kind of injuries that

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Speaker 1: this individual would have sustained prior to death, because that

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Speaker 1: if you're talking about gunshot wounds or stab wounds and

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing, that's a completely different set of

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Speaker 1: problems that you have. There were just merely talking about

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Speaker 1: the dismemberment of human remains. So in the early state

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Speaker 1: like this, you can still have quite a bit of

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Speaker 1: blood seeping out, and so that is going to pose

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Speaker 1: problem for anybody that is doing a dismemberment like this,

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Speaker 1: and so you'll have blood everywhere, You'll have contact blood

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Speaker 1: obviously on the instant that you're using. The individual cannot

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Speaker 1: escape this event without having blood all over them. Even

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Speaker 1: if they're wearing gloves, you're still going to get blood

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Speaker 1: on you. Because this is the thing about it, is

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Speaker 1: that when perpetrator shows up to a scene with let's say,

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Speaker 1: for instance, a hack saw all right and a knife

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Speaker 1: that you might use in your kitchen, they ain't got

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Speaker 1: the tools to use. And my suspicion is is that

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Speaker 1: they don't have the anatomical knowledge in order to facilitate this.

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Speaker 1: We have specific instruments that we use for these purposes.

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Speaker 1: That's certainly something that you have to factor in. You're

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Speaker 1: going to have quite a big mess early on. Now,

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Speaker 1: the further you move down range and say, you ask

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Speaker 1: the question, Jackie, if if you have a body that

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Speaker 1: is in moderate to advanced state of decomposition, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to deal with smell. You're gonna have to deal

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Speaker 1: with the changes in the tissue itself. But I guess

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Speaker 1: I hate to use the term upside, but if there

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Speaker 1: is an upside with dismemberment of decomposing remain, the joints

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Speaker 1: become much more malleable because of the breakdown of the tissues,

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Speaker 1: all the connective tissues and everything that are in there.

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Speaker 1: So if you go into, say, for instance, a shoulder

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Speaker 1: joint or to the elbow or to the wrist, those

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Speaker 1: are going to be much easier to access and kind

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Speaker 1: of take apart if you will. It's just that you're

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Speaker 1: going to have to deal with all of the problems

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Speaker 1: that come along in the messiness of the decomposing body. YEA,

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Speaker 1: For investigators, it's certainly one thing when you have an

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Speaker 1: intact human remain. I'm not gonna say it's easy, because

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Speaker 1: that's that's kind of a diminishment of what all is

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Speaker 1: involved in a death investigation. How Ever, I think that

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Speaker 1: we can all agree on the fact that if you're

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Speaker 1: talking about a case that involves possible dismemberment, what's happened,

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Speaker 1: What's happened to all of those various dismembered remains. Are

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Speaker 1: they in one location or they spread out over a

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Speaker 1: vast area, and that's certainly something that the police are

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Speaker 1: faced with right now, Jackie, this case reminds me so

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Speaker 1: much of the Jennifer Doulos case. Mom goes missing, husband

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Speaker 1: is arrested. He is caught on videotape and with evidence,

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Speaker 1: putting evidence into dumpsters and trash cans around the city

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Speaker 1: and away from the home. So my question is, and

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Speaker 1: again in the Doulos case, the idea of dismemberment was

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Speaker 1: also brought into play. How do you start this kind

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Speaker 1: of an investigation where you believe the body has been

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Speaker 1: dismembered and taken to separate Loca. The dumpster at Brian

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Speaker 1: Walsh's mother's apartment was searched, so your area of search

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Speaker 1: has become massive. And at what point do you stop

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Speaker 1: and say, Okay, sorry, we've gone out fifteen miles, we're

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Speaker 1: not going out any farther. Very difficult. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like stopping a battleship. You can't snap your fingers and

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Speaker 1: have it stopped. Right now, I'm thinking about what kind

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Speaker 1: of logistics are involved in this for the police. And

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Speaker 1: I've been involved in cases where I've had to go

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Speaker 1: to landfills and they are an absolute nightmare. I mean

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Speaker 1: it is a nightmare. Remember when of your kids used

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Speaker 1: to play that that game called red light, green Light.

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Speaker 1: Everybody would be moving in the yard. You'd be all

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Speaker 1: together and somebody say green light, red light, and you'd

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Speaker 1: have to stop. We're trying to stop the process of Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll repeat it. The process of processing garbage is monumental.

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Speaker 1: Where are the receptacles and then on what kind of

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Speaker 1: schedule are the trucks on they're gonna pick this stuff up?

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Speaker 1: And then once the trucks, if they're serviced by specific service,

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Speaker 1: what landfill are they going to go to? Because various

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Speaker 1: different locations and deepended upon the region of the country

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Speaker 1: you're in. They might be serviced by private companies, might

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Speaker 1: not necessarily the city of the county that's doing this,

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Speaker 1: and so they have different areas they're gonna go to.

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Speaker 1: And again that adds another layer to this. So from

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Speaker 1: that moment time we do have a starting place. We

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Speaker 1: have obviously the washes trash. And then you were referring

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Speaker 1: to the husband's mother's location. Where would her trash go?

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Speaker 1: How would you track that down? Oh, and by the way,

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Speaker 1: between his house, the washers home and his mother's home.

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Speaker 1: Where else is there that he could have gone to,

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Speaker 1: or did he take some kind of detour in going there?

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Speaker 1: Is there some kind of other location where items could

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Speaker 1: be deposited along the way, And all of that has

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Speaker 1: to be factored in. And listen, you've got a very

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Speaker 1: very tight window to do this in because if this

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Speaker 1: stuff makes it out to a landfill, Jackie, they put

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Speaker 1: it out into grids, and those grids are subsequently covered up.

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Speaker 1: You've got this stratification that's going on with this very

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Speaker 1: very fragile biological evidence that begins to break down very quickly.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw one more thing out that i want

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Speaker 1: our listeners to understand. When you are in a landfill,

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Speaker 1: this is a highly aerobic environment, which means that you've

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Speaker 1: got a lot of microscopic activity going on, and it's

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00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 1: made that way so that things break down, and that's

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Speaker 1: why they periodically turn the trash out there. They're always

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Speaker 1: running over it with big these big trucks and and

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Speaker 1: equipment and stuff. So time is of the essence. If

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Speaker 1: you don't captured at that moment time, your entire case

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Speaker 1: could be lost and all of the physical evidence can

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Speaker 1: be lost as well. You brought up a really good

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Speaker 1: point talking about this time factor in finding things in

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Speaker 1: the trash and how important it is. We can see

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Speaker 1: this in the Idaho murders case with Ryan Coburger. He

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Speaker 1: was caught putting trash into his neighbor's ben at four

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Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, wearing gloves. It just so happened

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Speaker 1: that the police were staking him out and caught him

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Speaker 1: saw him doing that, so that they were able to

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Speaker 1: retrieve that in case there was any evidence in there.

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Speaker 1: The idea that that's a possibility makes a forensic experts

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Speaker 1: job a thousand times more difficult. How do you say, okay,

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Speaker 1: check this neighbor, but don't check that neighbor, or do

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Speaker 1: you just check them all? Well? I think that a

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Speaker 1: lot of this goes back to the police having to

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Speaker 1: look at who their primary suspect is and what kind

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Speaker 1: of behaviors is this individual normally engaged in. Here's kind

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Speaker 1: of a assailiant point. I believe people have, as you

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00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 1: well reported Jackie, earlier, you talked about how people viewed

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00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: him as kind of standoffice figure. The question would be

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Speaker 1: for me is who did he talk to? Not where

390
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: didn't he go, but where did he go on a

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Speaker 1: regular basis, and that's within a comfort zone for this individual.

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Speaker 1: Most people that perpetrate a crime and they're not arch

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Speaker 1: criminal out there, which most of those types of people

394
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: don't truly exist that they do in comic books. But

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Speaker 1: when you find yourself in the midst of having been involved,

396
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: allegedly involved in something so horrific, you need those things

397
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: that are gonna you're gonna feel comfortable with, and you're

398
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 1: gonna feel most comfortable going to locations that you frequent,

399
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: things that you pass by every day that you would see,

400
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Speaker 1: Hey look there's a dumpster behind that convenience store, or

401
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: hey look there's a trash can. This person never takes

402
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: in their trash cans to leave it out there all

403
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: week long. It's always sits by the road and we'll

404
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: arbitrarily throw this in and my gosh, all we have

405
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: to do is think back, Jackie. This is one of

406
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Speaker 1: our earliest cases that we covered on Body Bags, and

407
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: that was infamous Ingrid Lynn case out of Seattle, where

408
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: she had met this guy on a dating app and

409
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: he brought her home that evening and wound up killing

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Speaker 1: her and actually dismembering her body in a bathtub in

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Speaker 1: that house, and he went to places that were convenient

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Speaker 1: for him along his route, and he actually deposited parts

413
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Speaker 1: of her body all over the city in recyclable trash can.

414
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Speaker 1: Say it just so happened. I think that they would

415
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 1: have had a hard time with this case, even more

416
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: difficult than they wound up having, if this random citizen

417
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: had not walked out to their trash can to retrieve

418
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: it and noticed that it was heavy, looked down in

419
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: there and can you imagine this looks down in there

420
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 1: and discovers I think it was a foot sticking out.

421
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Speaker 1: So you just never know about what a perpetrator is

422
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: going to do. They're going to do. I think those

423
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: things that make them feel most comfortable, because this is

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00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 1: already COMPLI caated enough when you begin to think about

425
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: what kind of intellectual energy has to go into this

426
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: in order to facilitate this pull it off, and you've

427
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: always got it in the back of your mind. I

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00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: would imagine, as somebody is always watching, that they're going

429
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: to get onto you, that you're going to leave a

430
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: trace behind, and of course they always do. But going

431
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: back to my question, I think I'm kind of hung

432
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: up on the fact that while you say most people

433
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: go where they're comfortable, what they know, when you've got

434
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: that one person israel Keys, for example, travel the country

435
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: setting up kill kits in strange locations. So you've always

436
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: got that one person that goes, I'm smarter than everybody else,

437
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: And then you have to worry is he really smarter

438
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: than anybody else? And does that mean he's going to

439
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: drive two hours away to dispose of a body? And

440
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: this ties back into my original question how far out?

441
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: At what point in an investigation five miles, ten miles,

442
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: fifteen miles from home do you say, Okay, we've gone

443
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: out far enough. I'll plainly say that I don't know.

444
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 1: I don't know how you take the measure of that

445
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: as an investigator. As much as I hate to say

446
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: this as a scientist, some of it just relies on intuition.

447
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: I hate that term. I hated when it comes. I

448
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: hate things like intuition and gut feeling because I think

449
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: that they'll fail you most of the time. But in

450
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: this particular case, the police will exhaust to every possibility

451
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: that they can, and at some point in time you

452
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: just have to call it quits. But you know, you

453
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: want to talk about leaving a trail behind. When the

454
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: police actually got ahold of one of the I think

455
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: it was the iPad that was found in the home

456
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: per search warrant. This is what was left behind on

457
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: the iPad. Just listen. This is kind of these little

458
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: bulletin points that I have here. Ten ways to dismember

459
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: a body? Does baking soda make a body smell good?

460
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: How long is someone missing before you can inherit? Can

461
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: you throw away body parts? Can you be charged with

462
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: a murder without a body dismemberment? And the best ways

463
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: to dispose of a body? A little light Saturday afternoon reading? Huh,

464
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: you know who who searches these things out? And when

465
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: you begin to couple that with her disappearance, and well,

466
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: and don't forget the fact, Joe, don't forget the fact

467
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: that she had said before that her husband had threatened

468
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: to kill her. Yeah, and you know her mother, who

469
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: I think is from Eastern Europe maybe Serbia, was not

470
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: even aware of this, and that came out later that

471
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: he had threatened her, I think, many many years ago,

472
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: and the mother was astounded to find this out. And

473
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: who knows, you know, what might be the motivation behind

474
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: all of this, and again he's innocent until proven guilty.

475
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: He's merely been charged at this point in time. But

476
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: you have to look at the totality of the circumstances

477
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: and who would have had the opportunity in order to

478
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: perpetrate such a heinous crime. I look at this and

479
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: I begin to think, deep down in my heart of hearts,

480
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: I've been married for a long time, I've got kids.

481
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: Many of us can identify with this. At what point

482
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: in time do you get in a relationship where you say, Okay,

483
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill the person that I've been married to

484
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: and oh, by the way, not only married to, but

485
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: created life with and have attempted to build a life with.

486
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: At what point do you get to? And I think

487
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: that that's currently what the police are trying to explore.

488
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: What would be the overall motivating factor for somebody to

489
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: have done this, To do this with a person that

490
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,479
Speaker 1: you've built a life with and completely destroy it. Brian

491
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: Walsh has pleaded not guilty to charges of murder and

492
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: disinenterring a body. He is being held without bail. I'm

493
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: Joseph st. Morgan and this is body backs m