Speaker 1: This episode discusses serious matters including suicide, childhood, trauma, substance use,
Speaker 1: and depression. Every single morning, the first thing I would
Speaker 1: do is cry, just because being awake was that difficult.
Speaker 1: I feel like a like a ticking time bomb. It
Speaker 1: was just a matter of when. Really, Hey, everyone, welcome
Speaker 1: back to this very special episode of On Purpose, the
Speaker 1: number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each
Speaker 1: and every single one of you that come back every
Speaker 1: week to listen, learn and grow. Now, I am so
Speaker 1: grateful for this amazing community that we have, for each
Speaker 1: and every one of you that lend me your ears
Speaker 1: twice a week. And as you know, I'm always always
Speaker 1: thinking about new ways in which we can serve and
Speaker 1: support our community and your journeys towards a better understanding
Speaker 1: of yourself and a better understanding of your friends, your
Speaker 1: family members, and the people around you and the world
Speaker 1: around us as well. Now this episode is sponsored by
Speaker 1: better Help Online Therapy and today I'm joined with hersu Joe,
Speaker 1: licensed marriage and family therapist and head of clinical Operations
Speaker 1: at better Help and in this new monthly series, we
Speaker 1: will be serving real listeners of the show and community.
Speaker 1: You'll hear the stories the things that they struggle with
Speaker 1: and get to sit in on a real therapy session
Speaker 1: with the intention of letting you know you're not alone.
Speaker 1: We're all dealing with something and in every show we
Speaker 1: will address different themes, different experiences, and our goal is
Speaker 1: to bring more awareness to taking care of your mental
Speaker 1: health and provide everyone the tools, resources, and encouragement they
Speaker 1: need to heal their past for a brighter future. Now,
Speaker 1: when we were thinking about this idea, one of the
Speaker 1: things I realized is that today we hear a lot
Speaker 1: about therapy. People say, oh, my therapist said this to me,
Speaker 1: or I learned this in therapy, but rarely have we
Speaker 1: actually sat in on a therapy session. We don't know
Speaker 1: what it looks like, and often our family members don't
Speaker 1: know what it looks like. I'm hoping that this is
Speaker 1: going to be a resource that you can share with
Speaker 1: your friends, your family so that they can understand therapy better,
Speaker 1: so that you can understand therapy better, and as a
Speaker 1: community we can heal together as well. Today, Hessu and
Speaker 1: I are joined by a very wonderful and special individual
Speaker 1: named Ashley, and Ashley's joined us today to share her journey,
Speaker 1: to share her story and I want you to welcome
Speaker 1: her and give her the deepest, warmest, most beautiful welcome
Speaker 1: from our on Purpose community because she's so kindly agreed
Speaker 1: to be a part of this today. So Hessu and Ashley,
Speaker 1: so grateful to have you here. I'm really really thankful
Speaker 1: to do this with both of you. And this is
Speaker 1: the first time we're doing this. It's historic and it's special.
Speaker 1: But thank you for being it. Yeah, thank you for
Speaker 1: having me. Yeah, thank you for including both of us you.
Speaker 1: It's exciting, it is, it is exciting. And you know,
Speaker 1: we were talking a bit beforehand, and we really want
Speaker 1: to honor you, Ashley and make sure that we serve
Speaker 1: you in an effective way. And so I'm going to
Speaker 1: now hand over to Sue, who's going to start this
Speaker 1: wonderful conversation and discussion. So Sue over to you. I mean,
Speaker 1: just continuing a little bit of something Jay was mentioning.
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that you feel safe, that
Speaker 1: you feel comfortable. So if there's ever a moment that
Speaker 1: the conversation is going somewhere that doesn't feel right for you,
Speaker 1: you can indicate that in whatever way that you need to.
Speaker 1: But thank you, thank you so much for being willing
Speaker 1: and open to talk about yourself for so many people,
Speaker 1: because I think part of destigmatizing the idea of seeking
Speaker 1: support is seeing other people do that, right, seeing other
Speaker 1: real people doing that, versus just hearing commercial after ad
Speaker 1: about doing this or trying this new thing. So my
Speaker 1: understanding is that you've already been in therapy for some time,
Speaker 1: and I was wondering if you could share a little
Speaker 1: bit about what initially got you to try it the
Speaker 1: first time. So initially I was so against therapy. I
Speaker 1: didn't want nothing to do with it. I thought I
Speaker 1: was a lost cause. I was like, no one can
Speaker 1: help me, Like no one can imagine what I'm going
Speaker 1: through or even trying to tell me what I can
Speaker 1: do to get better, because in my mind, nothing could
Speaker 1: help me. Twenty eighteen, I believe I overdosed on like
Speaker 1: sleeping meds, and I was after that. I was kind
Speaker 1: of actually forced into it, but I didn't have a choice,
Speaker 1: and that kind of started my therapy journey, and from
Speaker 1: there I was in therapy for two years. Something going
Speaker 1: on in your life led to some unsafe behaviors, like
Speaker 1: ways to cope, Like people often turn to substance when
Speaker 1: there is trauma because it helps numb stuff, It helps
Speaker 1: you not think about things, and sometimes you feel good, right,
Speaker 1: it makes you feel not just better from this thing
Speaker 1: that has been painful, but it feels good. And so
Speaker 1: I'm hearing that you had kind of like a mandated
Speaker 1: route into therapy. You mentioned that you wouldn't have considered it.
Speaker 1: So what were some of your ideas about what therapy
Speaker 1: was before? I didn't even know where do you even begin?
Speaker 1: What therapy looks like? I just thought someone would just
Speaker 1: sit there and tell me, Oh, how do you feel
Speaker 1: about that? M Oh, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? That's kind of like what
Speaker 1: I thought, or like someone try to preach to me
Speaker 1: or like tell me what to do or how I
Speaker 1: should do it. But really it wasn't like that at
Speaker 1: all for me. It ended up being something different exactly.
Speaker 1: And I know you can't give an entire synopsis of
Speaker 1: the corapeutic journey that you've been through, but now that
Speaker 1: you have gone through some of these sessions and it
Speaker 1: sounds like you found out it wasn't just so how
Speaker 1: did that make you feel? How did that? And I'm
Speaker 1: sure your therapists did ask many times well how did
Speaker 1: that make you feel? What do you think of therapy? Novin?
Speaker 1: What is therapy? If somebody is to ask you, a
Speaker 1: seasoned client, like what to expect if they were to
Speaker 1: try this out? Therapy is amazing. Honestly I recommend it
Speaker 1: to everybody. They tell me the problems, like you know what,
Speaker 1: you need a therapist, and like, I don't mean that
Speaker 1: in a negative It's not a negative thing at all.
Speaker 1: It's very positive and I try to enlighten that. But
Speaker 1: for me, when I was in therapy, like okay, so
Speaker 1: you have these dark thoughts. I mean you don't recognize them,
Speaker 1: or you don't even know what they are. It can
Speaker 1: easily spiral out of control. And so with therapy, she
Speaker 1: really helps me recognize these thinking traps is what we
Speaker 1: would call them. And throughout the day I was more aware,
Speaker 1: like if I would say on worthless or you can't
Speaker 1: do that, wait a minute, like that's not true, Like
Speaker 1: let's kind of lay it out and understand like what
Speaker 1: this is, like where it's coming from. That's something I
Speaker 1: still practice until this day. Every single day catch myself
Speaker 1: thinking something negative and obviously there's more to it, but
Speaker 1: something I really took away from that. Yeah, you're describing
Speaker 1: cognitive behavioral thing it is. Yeah, you went through this
Speaker 1: process where somebody helped you learn to identify and then
Speaker 1: articulate your internal process. Because when you can start talking
Speaker 1: about it or even understanding it a little bit better,
Speaker 1: I think that's when you really are able to make
Speaker 1: strides in terms of finding healing for yourself, the ability
Speaker 1: to let the things go that you need to, the
Speaker 1: ability to move on. So you shared a little bit
Speaker 1: about what led to your first session, right somebody you're
Speaker 1: forced because it became unsafe to yourself. Exactly Can you
Speaker 1: share now what you think led to the types of
Speaker 1: feelings you were trying to numb with substances. Well, I
Speaker 1: think it was just like a let up. There wasn't
Speaker 1: like a particular event what something did trigger it, and
Speaker 1: I can talk about that, but overall, like I've been
Speaker 1: struggling with it for since I was a young child,
Speaker 1: I think it was like really just like a matter
Speaker 1: of time, And I think if I received help sooner,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have gotten to that point. And for like
Speaker 1: a lot of people like me, unfortunately, something that drastic
Speaker 1: has to happen for us even want to accept help. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the rock bottom experience. Right, Like people, not just people,
Speaker 1: I should say, we we often feel like there's some
Speaker 1: kind of like shortcoming or something wrong with me if
Speaker 1: I need to reach out for support, because a lot
Speaker 1: of us have this misconception that therapy is for the
Speaker 1: weak minded, the people that are absent of some kind
Speaker 1: of strong will of their own. And it takes a
Speaker 1: lot of courage, I think, to finally realize, like vulnerability
Speaker 1: takes a lot of strength, being able to open up
Speaker 1: to someone, being able to open up to yourself and
Speaker 1: admit a lot of stuff. Yeah, and so you mentioned
Speaker 1: like your life led to that moment. I'm sure series events,
Speaker 1: and then you also said something about something did trigger this,
Speaker 1: so that something that you're willing to kind of open
Speaker 1: up about now. I think at that time it was
Speaker 1: my depression really had a hold of me. Every single
Speaker 1: morning I would the first thing I would do is cry,
Speaker 1: just because being awake was that difficult. I couldn't even
Speaker 1: I didn't even want to spend the days with myself. Mentally,
Speaker 1: that was going on for a couple of months, and
Speaker 1: I feel like no matter what I did, like one
Speaker 1: day I would wake up, I feel like I would
Speaker 1: do a good job, but I feel like it was
Speaker 1: steal not enough. I'm like, wow, I really gave it
Speaker 1: my all and it still was not enough. I was like,
Speaker 1: what is the point of being here? One day, my
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend and I got in an argument and I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, I will I'm just again. I'll never
Speaker 1: be enough, I'll nether be worthy. And normally in those situations,
Speaker 1: I will cont like I'll have a conversation with myself
Speaker 1: like okay, Ashley, you know, one more day, one more day,
Speaker 1: like just hold on and hold on. But that day,
Speaker 1: there was no conversation with myself. A switch just flipped
Speaker 1: and I just went through with it. And I was like,
Speaker 1: worst case scenario, how I go to sleep and I
Speaker 1: wake up like okay, But like best case scenari for me,
Speaker 1: I go to sleep and I don't even know what happened.
Speaker 1: That's what I was hoping for it but exactly go
Speaker 1: outs plans, which is probably the best. I feel like
Speaker 1: a like a ticking time bomb. It was just a
Speaker 1: matter of when. Really you're describing just like living for
Speaker 1: such a long time without knowing how to regulate your
Speaker 1: emotions and really process a lot of stuff right, and
Speaker 1: like blew up in an argument. Sounds like I want
Speaker 1: to shift gears a little bit and kind of ask
Speaker 1: a little bit more about your previous therapy experiences so far.
Speaker 1: So while you've been in therapy, I'm hearing you say
Speaker 1: that you've learned some skills, You've learned some things to
Speaker 1: like cope with and navigate everyday life, Like how did
Speaker 1: you learn that stuff? Like what is it that the
Speaker 1: therapist was doing to teach these things? Right? So, I'm
Speaker 1: a huge imagery person, and like one thing we would
Speaker 1: do it was it was kind of like how I
Speaker 1: describe it, like a court case, okay, and like you
Speaker 1: have your like the jury of like the lawyer and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. One thing I struggled with was feeling
Speaker 1: like I'm not capable of taking care of myself. Like
Speaker 1: I'm a grown adult. I should be able to take
Speaker 1: care of myself and I couldn't. And so we would
Speaker 1: break down the evidence, like Okay, what's real and like
Speaker 1: what's false, Like let's just recognize that there, because when
Speaker 1: you're this kind of mindset, you tell yourself so many
Speaker 1: lies stuff that's not being true. And so I would
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, well I do this. I do my
Speaker 1: laundry sometimes, like I have been working out past couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, like, oh, you do feed yourself. You have
Speaker 1: to give yourself credit for the things that you actually do,
Speaker 1: and you I would we would write it down in
Speaker 1: the evidence section and we would write down like what
Speaker 1: was false, and basically like the jury would come to
Speaker 1: the conclusion like, no, you are capable. So yeah, you
Speaker 1: would just really just have to in that process give
Speaker 1: yourself credit and kind of look at what was real
Speaker 1: and what was it and you would shift those thoughts
Speaker 1: of I should be able to and you change it
Speaker 1: into no, you are able to, and you do. It's
Speaker 1: a lot of just shifting the way you think about stuff,
Speaker 1: taking on different perspectives. Hearing someone kind of re word
Speaker 1: or like paraphrase your life in a different way. It
Speaker 1: sounds like you've learned a lot about yourself too. There's
Speaker 1: like a period of time where it sounds like you
Speaker 1: didn't really know who you were. Like what parts of
Speaker 1: learning these skills, learning how to identify evidence for and
Speaker 1: against some kind of thought or belief helped you figure
Speaker 1: out who you are? Like, do you feel like there
Speaker 1: was some kind of self exploration self identification type of process,
Speaker 1: Like it's not just learning skills, right, it's I guess
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get to your sense of any kind
Speaker 1: of change in the ways that you perceive yourself, Like
Speaker 1: how has that kind of shifted in that two year period.
Speaker 1: So a lot of people, I believe, feel like they
Speaker 1: go to therapy and overnight they're so much better, and
Speaker 1: that's just not the case. And for me, again, until
Speaker 1: this day, I someting I had to practice every single day,
Speaker 1: so there wasn't like one particular moment where I just
Speaker 1: like saw myself in like a better light. Eventually, you
Speaker 1: keep practicing and practicing and practicing, and eventually you start
Speaker 1: to learn yourself. You start to value yourself and you
Speaker 1: see yourself in a whole different light. You have you
Speaker 1: learn boundaries, and you have them now, and you have
Speaker 1: rules for yourself and you don't allow certain people or
Speaker 1: certain situations control you as much because you have more
Speaker 1: confidence in the tools and the Kobe mechanisms that you
Speaker 1: have developed throughout therapy. And that's definitely helped me a lot.
Speaker 1: To this day, I really do see myself in a
Speaker 1: higher light, and I don't let people take advantage of
Speaker 1: me as much as I used to back in the day.
Speaker 1: Back in the day, people took advantage of you in
Speaker 1: what ways do you think that was happening that you're
Speaker 1: able to prevent now? Well, just one example, you were
Speaker 1: mentioning earlier people they kind of self that sabotage, whether
Speaker 1: it's drugs, alcohol. For me, I didn't do any of that.
Speaker 1: For me, my reckless behavior was being promiscuous. And that's
Speaker 1: kind of like what I learned growing up was giving
Speaker 1: yourself for in return for love. So that's what I
Speaker 1: thought I had to do in order to receive any
Speaker 1: sort of love. And so I would give myself to guys,
Speaker 1: you know, and like thinking, oh, this is how they're
Speaker 1: going to accept me. This is like where they're gonna
Speaker 1: love me, and this is where I'm valued. And now
Speaker 1: it's not like that at all. I'm just like, no,
Speaker 1: I have so much more to give than my body,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And so that's just one
Speaker 1: example of how things have definitely shifted for me. You're
Speaker 1: speaking of something huge herey is like we as people,
Speaker 1: we learn how to not only give love, but how
Speaker 1: to receive love from very significant people really early in
Speaker 1: our lives childhood, and those people that are supposed to
Speaker 1: love us unconditionally, keep us safe, nurture us, show us
Speaker 1: that the world as a safe place, have a lot
Speaker 1: of power over us as young children. And so I'm
Speaker 1: what I'm hearing is when you were a young child,
Speaker 1: some kind of event or series events taught you that
Speaker 1: love means something you know specific right, So I'm curious
Speaker 1: in your therapy experience, how much did you go back
Speaker 1: and talk about your childhood in that time? When I
Speaker 1: went to therapy, we did go, well, you kind of
Speaker 1: have to understand why you feel this way, and it
Speaker 1: does stem from your childhood everything, So we really did
Speaker 1: start from there. We broke it down from there. It
Speaker 1: really does help you start to realize how you're acting
Speaker 1: in the presence is it stems from that. We reenact.
Speaker 1: We try to correct what happened to us as kids
Speaker 1: in our adult relationships. And I think we all tried
Speaker 1: to the best of our ability, but to try to
Speaker 1: correct something that happened to us when we're six, we
Speaker 1: didn't know any better, you know, trying to make this
Speaker 1: six year old, you know, be smarter. You should have
Speaker 1: known better, which we tell ourselves all the time. It
Speaker 1: sounds like you learn to have compassion for the small
Speaker 1: child inside of you. Yes, Like even to this day,
Speaker 1: Like I'm twenty seven years old, and I still, to
Speaker 1: this day, I still feel like that little girl, Like
Speaker 1: I feel like it's my duty to protect myself and
Speaker 1: be that person little Ashley needed when she was younger.
Speaker 1: You really do feel like it's your fault, like or
Speaker 1: you should have done this differently in your should have
Speaker 1: done that. You blame yourself and you're ashamed of it,
Speaker 1: but really it's not in your control and the people
Speaker 1: in your lives should have been the ones protecting you. Yeah, shame.
Speaker 1: Shame is a very powerful thing, right. It's like there's
Speaker 1: like a difference between when we feel guilty for doing
Speaker 1: something bad. We recognize that this thing we probably could
Speaker 1: have made a different choice, but shame is like adding
Speaker 1: some really painful and uncomfortable stuff on top of that.
Speaker 1: I did this bad thing because I'm a bad person,
Speaker 1: or this bad thing happened to me and I deserved
Speaker 1: it because I'm a bad person. Like in therapy, do
Speaker 1: you feel like you can remember some kind of shift
Speaker 1: in that sense of shame, like something that released you
Speaker 1: from feeling like all this stuff happened to me because
Speaker 1: I'm bad? What about this process? What about talking about
Speaker 1: yourself and your life helped you start to shift this
Speaker 1: idea away from being a bad person? Because I'm hearing
Speaker 1: you say that you are a good person. When did
Speaker 1: that change? Like? How does that change? There's not one
Speaker 1: moment where it just shifts. It truly is happens over
Speaker 1: time and within my time of therapy, the two years
Speaker 1: of course, I relationships, jobs, real life situations are happening,
Speaker 1: and when I'm acting on them and I feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is happening to me, I deserve it. Anyways, I'm
Speaker 1: a piece of crap, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: so you would accept that for yourself. But over time
Speaker 1: you realize like, wait a minute, like I don't deserve
Speaker 1: that at all. It shouldn't be happened to me. You
Speaker 1: shouldn't accept that. And once you create those boundaries for
Speaker 1: yourself and practice it, it does get better. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of people wonder like why do we go
Speaker 1: to therapy every week? What is it about this cadence
Speaker 1: of whatever? And it's like, why don't we go every day?
Speaker 1: If I'm trying to solve this huge problem that's been
Speaker 1: part of my life for such a long time, and
Speaker 1: really your life you're healing is what happens outside of therapy.
Speaker 1: It's just one hour a week most of the time.
Speaker 1: It's like, you can't expect this one hour of week
Speaker 1: talking to someone on a couch or whatever to fix everything.
Speaker 1: It's talking about some stuff, learning some things, identifying feelings
Speaker 1: and behaviors that you could try to start working on
Speaker 1: in a different way. And it's in your real life
Speaker 1: outside of the session that this transformation is really happening
Speaker 1: for some people very gradually and over a long period
Speaker 1: of time. You mentioned your twenty seven that's like, you know,
Speaker 1: potentially twenty five years of learning how to be in
Speaker 1: a particular space in a body, and it's going to
Speaker 1: take time to like unlearn, relearn and start seeing the
Speaker 1: world in a way that is safe. Right, So what
Speaker 1: would you say, like if you had not gone to therapy,
Speaker 1: you know, where would we be? Where would you be? Oh?
Speaker 1: My goodness, Like if I never went to therapy, I
Speaker 1: would not be the person that I am today, nor
Speaker 1: be the person that I'm becoming. My self awareness has
Speaker 1: grown so much and I'm able to take care of
Speaker 1: myself more ment I'm able to value my thoughts more
Speaker 1: or just like again, if I'm negative, I recognize it
Speaker 1: real quick and I try to change it into something
Speaker 1: more enlightening and more actually true. Let go from false
Speaker 1: to true. You know, people come to therapy and over time,
Speaker 1: after what's called the assessment period, where your therapist is
Speaker 1: getting to know you and asking you about your family
Speaker 1: history and like all your school stuff and everything you
Speaker 1: remember from your family, childhoods, whatever. Once you move past
Speaker 1: this initial period where you're building this relationship, you start
Speaker 1: thinking about goals. What are the goals that I want
Speaker 1: to work on? And so you and your therapists like
Speaker 1: agree on these usually two or three major things that
Speaker 1: you want to achieve through this process, and usually you're
Speaker 1: looking for something called smart goals. People talk about this
Speaker 1: all the time. You want to be specific, measurable. What's
Speaker 1: not always explicitly stated as a goal is increased self awareness.
Speaker 1: But I think that's all always going to be an outcome,
Speaker 1: at least I think most therapists are hoping that that's
Speaker 1: an outcome for their clients. So I'm really glad that
Speaker 1: you were able to even identify that that's something that's
Speaker 1: shifted for you. Is self awareness? Yes, honestly. Without my
Speaker 1: self awareness, I think I would be so lost, because
Speaker 1: I do believe self awareness is the first step, Like
Speaker 1: you have to even recognize what you're doing or how
Speaker 1: you're behaving or what you're thinking about yourself. That's where
Speaker 1: it's starting, like from recognizing it. So if you don't
Speaker 1: recognize it, you really can't move forward or even try
Speaker 1: to get better. You were talking about the assessments, right,
Speaker 1: and so maybe like every six months we would review
Speaker 1: and when I was feeling better, you know, I'm doing better,
Speaker 1: we're reviewing from six months ago. And it was so sad.
Speaker 1: I was I was my heart was breaking for six
Speaker 1: months ago, Ashley. And she was saying, she was saying,
Speaker 1: I'm referring to honest but that's how I feel like.
Speaker 1: I feel like a new person, like honestly, but she
Speaker 1: was just referring to her like a self like unworthy,
Speaker 1: I'll never get better. It was very very dark thoughts,
Speaker 1: and I was so sad for I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm like that was me. Are you trying? You're on
Speaker 1: the right assessment? And like how I said these things
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's true. It was just like it was
Speaker 1: a transformation and to reflect back on all of those
Speaker 1: and like how I was feeling where I am today,
Speaker 1: It was a good feeling because I wasn't feeling that
Speaker 1: way any longer. Yeah, what you said is like exciting
Speaker 1: to me because you're describing this very powerful component of
Speaker 1: not just therapy, but just like tracking, tracking your thoughts,
Speaker 1: tracking your moods, your behaviors. This is like why a
Speaker 1: lot of people choose to journal. They like to look
Speaker 1: back and see how far they've come. Like, if you
Speaker 1: never wrote down or put somewhere where you could remember
Speaker 1: where you were, it's very, very hard to identify how
Speaker 1: much better you've become, how much better you're feeling. So
Speaker 1: in therapy it's a really like specific, intentional place to
Speaker 1: be able to have someone else doing that with you,
Speaker 1: tracking stuff, bringing your attention back to like remember what
Speaker 1: you said last time, because that doesn't really fit with
Speaker 1: what you're saying today. I'm hearing that you had a
Speaker 1: great therapist. Really, it's like somebody that yeah, it is
Speaker 1: with you in this moment, but also taking you back
Speaker 1: to relevant moments in the past to make connections. This
Speaker 1: is what helps people gain better self awareness, because self
Speaker 1: aware people think about themselves in every chapter and season
Speaker 1: of their lives, try to relate the past to the
Speaker 1: present and how that's going to affect their future. And really,
Speaker 1: somebody that's not self aware, it's going to be really
Speaker 1: hard for them to practice empathy, the be the ability
Speaker 1: to feel for another. So can you say anything about
Speaker 1: like your experience with empathy and whether you've noticed like
Speaker 1: a shift with that with your improved self awareness. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I was considered myself an empathetic person even before then,
Speaker 1: but there would be times where I'd feel like a robot,
Speaker 1: like almost incapable of feeling sorry for somebody, like just
Speaker 1: I feel bad because I'm like, I feel like I
Speaker 1: should feel something towards them, but I don't, and I
Speaker 1: really do. I think that helped me later on down
Speaker 1: the line to be more empathetic one percent. That's like
Speaker 1: a big life thing. It's like, I think we're all
Speaker 1: hard word to connect, to want to be with other people,
Speaker 1: to have intimacy with folks that are important to us.
Speaker 1: And how can you do that if you don't even
Speaker 1: know who you are? Yes, when you're really not sure
Speaker 1: of who you are. I mean, I don't know who
Speaker 1: I am. I'm still growing, you know, but at that
Speaker 1: time when you just kind of like I would describe
Speaker 1: myself as a loose cannon, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like I couldn't process any type of emotions or receive love,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't know what that looked like. I didn't
Speaker 1: know how to accept it or like return it. It
Speaker 1: really affected how idult relationships, friendship ships, careers, just because
Speaker 1: I didn't even know how certain emotions or certain situations
Speaker 1: would look like. I didn't know what was normal. We
Speaker 1: have these wounds inside right that I think a lot
Speaker 1: of us want to heal. We attempt to heal them
Speaker 1: in so many different ways, whether it's substance that helps
Speaker 1: numb these wounds a little bit, or reckless sexual behaviors
Speaker 1: where we're trying to connect, where we're chasing intimacy but
Speaker 1: it's still a little bit different, or you know, burying
Speaker 1: ourselves in work, like all this stuff that we're trying
Speaker 1: to do to feel normal. Like you say, what I'm
Speaker 1: hearing is like a larger acceptance of just you as
Speaker 1: you are, that you don't have to perform, that you
Speaker 1: don't have to be like a specific model of someone
Speaker 1: in order to be worthy of anything really accomplished a lot.
Speaker 1: Thank you. What would you say were your initial goals?
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, past the point of like being
Speaker 1: forced into therapy, When did it become a choice to you?
Speaker 1: And every time where I would look forward to therapy
Speaker 1: and things will happen throughout the week, and I got there.
Speaker 1: I used to go to therapy once a week, I
Speaker 1: would leave the room the house and I'll just be like,
Speaker 1: my therapist is going to get it earful today, Like
Speaker 1: I couldn't wait to share what I was going through
Speaker 1: with my therapists, like someone who understand wasn't judging me,
Speaker 1: someone who can break it down for me, And that
Speaker 1: was really refreshing because I didn't. I didn't. I still
Speaker 1: don't really have that support system family wise. So having
Speaker 1: that one person in my life that I can trust
Speaker 1: and turn to it was amazing. Somebody that's listening to you,
Speaker 1: to respond to you about you. You mentioned like I
Speaker 1: don't have this in my family, and like even people
Speaker 1: with very loving, very caring, very well meaning families still
Speaker 1: don't really always have that with family because those good
Speaker 1: intentions also come with their own baggage and their own
Speaker 1: feelings and their own agendas of what they want between
Speaker 1: them and you to somebody to break it down, just
Speaker 1: hear you out, help you help mirror stuff, right, Like
Speaker 1: therapists say, like we're just here to hold up a mirror,
Speaker 1: right to help you see see yourself a little bit better.
Speaker 1: Because we all go through trauma that makes it very
Speaker 1: difficult for us to like see past all this stuff
Speaker 1: that we build up to protect ourselves from future traumas.
Speaker 1: In therapy, the therapists ask you a lot of questions.
Speaker 1: What's your sense of like what these questions are for?
Speaker 1: Why do we ask so many questions? Or why do
Speaker 1: you think that we ask so many questions? In the beginning,
Speaker 1: obviously I'm just like nosy, okay, Like I was like, jeez,
Speaker 1: the Social Security too. But really it's come to find out,
Speaker 1: like again holding the mirror up, it's really reflection, like
Speaker 1: who you are as a person, How do you become
Speaker 1: this person? Why are you acting this way? So every
Speaker 1: question there is really intention behind it. It's not just
Speaker 1: some aimless question like trying to be nosy, you know,
Speaker 1: like they're not judging you. So I feel like every
Speaker 1: single question for my therapist, you know, there was she
Speaker 1: was just looking out for me and wanted to help
Speaker 1: me become more aware of why I was behaving a
Speaker 1: certain way or acting or thinking a certain way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the questions intention I like that you use that because
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes therapists who were just people were just people.
Speaker 1: Sometimes those curious questions or how you would say, nosy,
Speaker 1: they do pop up here and there, but it is
Speaker 1: like a therapist's kind of duty to refrain from doing that.
Speaker 1: Like you might be talking about something from your life
Speaker 1: and then you mentioned like a restaurant that I've been to,
Speaker 1: and my initial reaction of wanting to talk about and
Speaker 1: make this connection like oh, I've been there and I
Speaker 1: got this item from the menu, like those things. We
Speaker 1: often refrain from that because in therapy it is about you.
Speaker 1: Of course, it's going to somewhat be about me, because
Speaker 1: I'm a human and we're connecting as to people, and
Speaker 1: my experiences, beliefs, and values are going to be present
Speaker 1: in this room. But it's very important for therapists not
Speaker 1: to impose those things, right, or like make you have
Speaker 1: particular goals or try to get you to think the
Speaker 1: way that I do. Very unbiased, yeah, judge, non judgmental.
Speaker 1: It was very neutral, Like you said, she didn't try
Speaker 1: to impose her opinions or thoughts to in a certain
Speaker 1: extent with the thoughts, but opinions, she never really did
Speaker 1: that right, right, the opinions stuff, We're like, we're taught
Speaker 1: and trained, like leave that stuff outside the door and
Speaker 1: go to your own therapy so you're really sure of
Speaker 1: what your stances on a bunch of stuff for so
Speaker 1: that you don't have to come into a session and
Speaker 1: argue with clients about it, especially in like you know,
Speaker 1: heated climates like we have in current modern society. I
Speaker 1: can't imagine going to a therapy session and she's told me, no,
Speaker 1: you're wrong. I'm just like roving like this debate, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's not like that at all.
Speaker 1: I'm very glad you had that because a personal experience,
Speaker 1: which I think a lot of people can relate to,
Speaker 1: is we turn to sometimes a best friend, an you know,
Speaker 1: older family member, maybe our mom. We turn to these
Speaker 1: people with the expectation that they will be there for
Speaker 1: us without judgment, that they'll respond to us in a
Speaker 1: way that's loving and caring and nurturing. And a lot
Speaker 1: of times those responses are loving, carry and nurturing, but
Speaker 1: they're also filled with the judgment, the criticisms of you
Speaker 1: could have done it this way, It probably would have
Speaker 1: been better if you thought about it this way. So
Speaker 1: family very well meaning but also emotionally charged, also like
Speaker 1: entangled into your life, and they have their own like motivations,
Speaker 1: things that they're trying to accomplish to propel this relationship
Speaker 1: in whatever direction. When you're in such a vulnerable state
Speaker 1: and you don't know what's going on, and even though
Speaker 1: maybe a family member has great intentions and they're basically
Speaker 1: putting their thoughts and opinions onto you, you're in a
Speaker 1: really vulnerable state and you might take their advice and
Speaker 1: it's just totally wrong and totally not the right direction
Speaker 1: to go. So, even though family members are supportive, therapy
Speaker 1: is definitely highly recommended from my end. Makes me wonder,
Speaker 1: like what big differences you've shared some already, but some
Speaker 1: other differences that you can think of between going to
Speaker 1: like a really close friend for support versus talking to
Speaker 1: a therapist. So even just when I was a teenager,
Speaker 1: I turned to my best friends and it's not her
Speaker 1: fault because she's not a kid too, And I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: I think I'm really depressed and she's like, you're not depressed,
Speaker 1: You're just sad. He's like okay. And then my ex
Speaker 1: boyfriend from around that time, I would try to express
Speaker 1: my thoughts and my concerns and he thought I was
Speaker 1: looking for attention and make little like sneakers with his friends, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this girl's crazy, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like psycho And at this point you're like, you don't
Speaker 1: even understand it yourself. She's like, oh I am psycho.
Speaker 1: I'm real crazy. Like I'm gonna show you crazy like
Speaker 1: you act on that, you know, because that's what you
Speaker 1: believe you are. And my mom, that's a different story.
Speaker 1: You know. I tried telling her. I'm like, I'm so
Speaker 1: angry I feel this way. I'm like, I don't understand
Speaker 1: why I think I need help. And I didn't know
Speaker 1: what was wrong with me or why I'm this way.
Speaker 1: I just knew it wasn't normal. And she doesn't mean
Speaker 1: lack or she doesn't mean have the depth to understand
Speaker 1: such a concept. And so maybe she cared for me,
Speaker 1: but she wasn't the ideal person to try to go
Speaker 1: for help. And so those are my three closest people
Speaker 1: in my life. Again, it's not my ex boyfriend's fault
Speaker 1: or my best friend's fault. They don't know any better. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but as a principal figure, I definitely needed more guidance,
Speaker 1: some more direction, and a lot of people don't have that,
Speaker 1: And I think that's another thing that star like steered
Speaker 1: me away from wanting to receive any more help. Just
Speaker 1: because of those kind of experiences. I'm like, Wow, no
Speaker 1: one never stands and no one's gonna want to help me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is what happens. Why am I been
Speaker 1: up as I met with like rejection or someone withdrawing,
Speaker 1: or someone shutting down, or someone telling me I'm wrong
Speaker 1: invalidating my experience, saying that I'm not really feeling the
Speaker 1: thing that I think I'm feeling. You feel like you
Speaker 1: shouldn't be feeling this way, like you don't have a
Speaker 1: right to, or like you're just looking for attention, or
Speaker 1: people have it worse, you know, like why do you
Speaker 1: feel that way? You have no right to feel that way.
Speaker 1: So that really does affect you. Yeah, how you portray people.
Speaker 1: There are people out there that have it much worse
Speaker 1: than you. I think that is like someone's attempt to
Speaker 1: help you feel better because they're like trying to minimize
Speaker 1: the issue that you're bringing to them or even your friend, Like,
Speaker 1: you're not depressed, you're just sad. I can see that
Speaker 1: being a sixteen year old. Solid attempt at making the
Speaker 1: situation less scary, but not just for you, but less
Speaker 1: scary for her. Oh yeah, same thing with your ex boyfriend,
Speaker 1: Like making a joke of this thing that you're bringing up.
Speaker 1: It's actually really uncomfortable for you. A lot of people
Speaker 1: respond that way because they don't know how else to
Speaker 1: handle it. They can't hold space for it because they're
Speaker 1: not really sure what to do, and they start feeling heightened,
Speaker 1: they start feeling emotional themselves, and then their own defense
Speaker 1: mechanisms start coming out, and some people use humor, which
Speaker 1: can be very harmful to the people around them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you know, with mom, it's a lot of
Speaker 1: moms they really mean well, but they are also people,
Speaker 1: and a lot of moms have I mean playing moms
Speaker 1: have been to therapy, but I think a lot of
Speaker 1: them haven't. And this thing that you mentioned of like
Speaker 1: maybe she doesn't have the depths, it's probably she doesn't
Speaker 1: have the training, she doesn't have the understanding to help
Speaker 1: you feel safe and the feelings that you're having. And
Speaker 1: also our parents' first instinct is like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: my child is hurt. Have to make them feel better,
Speaker 1: versus my child is hurt, We're going to hold space
Speaker 1: for that and let them know it's okay to be hurt. Right,
Speaker 1: And that's like a big difference between parents and a therapist.
Speaker 1: A therapist is not going to try to immediately put
Speaker 1: a band aid off on it, but it's like, let's
Speaker 1: like really get in there. It's take the band aid off.
Speaker 1: Let's see what's how bad is this wound? Like what
Speaker 1: happened to it? Like how do you even get the wound?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Oh, the wound bringing it back?
Speaker 1: I think I forgot to close that loop. You know,
Speaker 1: we have wounds inside and we do all these things
Speaker 1: trying to heal them. Ultimately, if you don't heal that stuff,
Speaker 1: it will end up like bleeding out on other people
Speaker 1: other people, Yes, yeah, yeah, yes yeah. If the gory
Speaker 1: scene of like our emotional blood and baggage just like
Speaker 1: following us around everywhere, and it's it's contagious, you know,
Speaker 1: It's like any feeling is contagious when you're with other people,
Speaker 1: and when you're not well, other people feel that, right,
Speaker 1: So like I imagine a cloud over me. It's just raining,
Speaker 1: you know how my boyfriend year, he's getting rained on,
Speaker 1: it poured, and I feel like it was almost my fault,
Speaker 1: like I brought this into your life, like you didn't
Speaker 1: deserve this. I'm just I really felt like I was
Speaker 1: bringing people down with me and they didn't need that,
Speaker 1: And that was anything that led to why I did
Speaker 1: what I did. Everyone everyone would be better off without me.
Speaker 1: So if you don't address the help blood's everywhere, you know,
Speaker 1: I think we're touching on so many stuff that's very
Speaker 1: relatable to a lot of people. And I'm hearing you
Speaker 1: sing praises of how their peace been helpful. Like what
Speaker 1: would you say to someone that's like maybe in a
Speaker 1: similar headspace to where you were before of thinking like
Speaker 1: it's just not going to help. Anytime I've tried to
Speaker 1: open up to somebody, it led to something worse for me.
Speaker 1: Any pieces of advice to give to someone that's still
Speaker 1: very skeptical, resistant, fearful of trying this thing, Number one,
Speaker 1: I would say, do not tell them how you think
Speaker 1: they should feel. So if you try to tell someone
Speaker 1: like they're going to automtically tune out, like you're automatically disqualified,
Speaker 1: like in bad like you, who are you to tell me?
Speaker 1: Because like so just listen to them, like listen to
Speaker 1: what they have to say. And I wouldn't again put
Speaker 1: your opinions or your personal thoughts on it for me personally,
Speaker 1: because I have been through it. I would just be
Speaker 1: there with them and this is so powerful to me.
Speaker 1: Rather than oh, you should do this, I would say
Speaker 1: we should go to therapy, like let me help you
Speaker 1: find somebody, because I didn't have that support. I didn't
Speaker 1: have someone who's going to hold my hands and help
Speaker 1: me find the help. So for me, I would just
Speaker 1: hold their hand and try to find somewhere to get
Speaker 1: them help that they feel comfortable. And You're like, I'm
Speaker 1: feeling like emotional because that's what you're doing here, right,
Speaker 1: You're like figuratively holding the hands now so many people
Speaker 1: by sharing your experience and being so open about all
Speaker 1: this stuff that you've been through and like and rehashing
Speaker 1: a lot of your own thought process from the past
Speaker 1: that weren't very healthy. Sometimes people just need permission. I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's like from themselves or from other
Speaker 1: people to do something good and do something nice for themselves,
Speaker 1: nice for me. And while your journey too, there wasn't
Speaker 1: quite like I'm gonna do this for me today. You
Speaker 1: know at some point you were choosing to keep going back. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And would you ever do it again? Would you ever
Speaker 1: go back? I already know I'm going to go back
Speaker 1: to therapy, not because I'm depressed, but because I just
Speaker 1: need that extra helping hand, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I definitely think I'll meet therapy for the rest of
Speaker 1: my life, not because there's something wrong with me or
Speaker 1: like I'm suicidal again or something like that, just because
Speaker 1: it really is helpful. What's helpful about it? It really
Speaker 1: helps you understands why you feel a certain way about
Speaker 1: a certain situation. And I know as I get older,
Speaker 1: maybe marriage or kids, I'll have those conflicts of like
Speaker 1: I'm letting my child down, I can't provide for them,
Speaker 1: and you know that will probably stem from how I
Speaker 1: feel certain times today, how I can't provide for myself.
Speaker 1: And I know that probably will not be the case
Speaker 1: as I get older, but I'm sure therapy will help
Speaker 1: me understand that. So it's helpful for navigating life every
Speaker 1: day challenges. Right, Like we're all posed with a thousand
Speaker 1: decisions to make per day, and most of the time
Speaker 1: we're making those decisions largely on our own. And that's
Speaker 1: an interesting thing about therapy. It's not that your therapist
Speaker 1: is making further decisions for you, but helping you identify
Speaker 1: what decisions like lie in there already, Like you already
Speaker 1: know the answers and the truth to what life is.
Speaker 1: We all know that for ourselves somewhere deep inside. And
Speaker 1: I think therapy really helps us like unlock this stuff
Speaker 1: that we've pushed down, you know, things like not having confidence,
Speaker 1: or not believing in ourselves to make the right choices,
Speaker 1: or not feeling worthy, not feeling adequate. It really makes
Speaker 1: it hard to listen to ourselves and to hear those
Speaker 1: deep down truths that already exist. Yeah, like you don't
Speaker 1: believe the truth at all, Like you could look into
Speaker 1: the mirror like you're so ugly. Like you're not ugly,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, But all truths are out
Speaker 1: the window, and like you don't even value your opinions
Speaker 1: when you're dealing with like mental health issues. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you mentioned you've experienced a depression, which does sometimes include
Speaker 1: feeling sad, but like, how did depression manifest in your life?
Speaker 1: Like what made you feel? Like this is the word
Speaker 1: I'm going to use to describe how I'm feeling to
Speaker 1: other people. For somebody listening to this conversation like that
Speaker 1: might be feeling depressed themselves, but they don't have the
Speaker 1: words to articulate that yet, Like what would you clue
Speaker 1: them into? Like how do you know that you're depressed?
Speaker 1: For me, I was very, very angry the moment I
Speaker 1: woke up. I just filled with so much rage and
Speaker 1: it would be to the point where I just want
Speaker 1: to cry. That's how angry I was. And obviously you're
Speaker 1: being suicidal. I don't want to live. That's not normal,
Speaker 1: Like I just want to end my life, and you're
Speaker 1: sitting there have a pros and cons list, trying to
Speaker 1: think out like okay, like why should I not do it?
Speaker 1: Like that's not normal, and just constantly feeling worthless, like
Speaker 1: not feeling like you deserve to live. These I knew
Speaker 1: were not normal. I felt that way as a young child.
Speaker 1: It started with anger. That's why I can tell you
Speaker 1: as it started with anger, And that's insight because if
Speaker 1: you ask a therapist, how does depression manifest in youth
Speaker 1: in small children? And anger is actually something that someone
Speaker 1: needs to assess. For temper tantrums, this like really disregulated
Speaker 1: way of being. If you're waking up really pissed off
Speaker 1: every day, that's not normal. Yeah, And I definitely encourage
Speaker 1: parents because I see it a lot like if a
Speaker 1: child does act out, All children act out, but if
Speaker 1: it's like a constant pattern and you're punishing them, I
Speaker 1: think that's like the worst. I'm like, no, take take
Speaker 1: a moment, listen to your child's try to have a
Speaker 1: conversation and understand why are they feeling this way, And
Speaker 1: you would probably learn a lot about your child and
Speaker 1: realize punishing them sending to the room, making it worse
Speaker 1: essentially is not the way to go. But getting help.
Speaker 1: It's probably the parent needs help too, you know, it's
Speaker 1: a it's a partnership between the child and the parent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: some education around just emotions, how they how they creep up,
Speaker 1: like what they look like in kids, I mean small
Speaker 1: kids especially, like their primary language is not English or
Speaker 1: whatever language it is where they're growing up, it's play.
Speaker 1: They understand the world through how they play, how they
Speaker 1: engage in a very active way outside of just like
Speaker 1: verbal communication. So yes, like paying attention to kid's mood,
Speaker 1: so you paying attention to your own mood and recognizing
Speaker 1: something's not normal. Yeah, And if I, like my mom
Speaker 1: was more aware and more educated about something like that,
Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't have grew up the way I did
Speaker 1: in certain ways. And plenty of parents they mean well,
Speaker 1: they really tried their best. It speaks to like the
Speaker 1: importance of education around emotional intelligence and maybe incorporating a
Speaker 1: little bit more into like standard curriculums at school, how
Speaker 1: to just like tune into your feelings, how your feelings
Speaker 1: affect your everyday life. I imagine many of us could
Speaker 1: have benefited if our moms are a little bit more
Speaker 1: aware about all this stuff. Yeah. I don't mean to laugh,
Speaker 1: but some people are really there, really are clueless, I
Speaker 1: should say. And I really think it's very helpful to
Speaker 1: start with children or even teenagers. I think that's really
Speaker 1: where it begins, because that's where you start to become
Speaker 1: programmed to be a certain way, and you're gonna move
Speaker 1: out of your parents' house and you're gonna live your life,
Speaker 1: but yet you're still acting a certain way and like
Speaker 1: you don't even realize it's coming from your childhood, Like
Speaker 1: you just think you're some like adults with an anger
Speaker 1: problem or you're just like super deprised. Thank you don't
Speaker 1: even know why, and that will carry on with you
Speaker 1: if you don't recognize that you have a mental health problem.
Speaker 1: And therapy helped you in those ways of recognition and
Speaker 1: you know, connecting the dots between what happens in childhood
Speaker 1: and how you're relating to other people. Now, thank you
Speaker 1: actually for opening up so much and sharing about your journey.
Speaker 1: It's really you know, just sitting and listening to you
Speaker 1: both have a discussion about the journey you've been on.
Speaker 1: Also hearing you open up about your feelings. As someone
Speaker 1: who's in the room observing, it's actually really quite remarkable
Speaker 1: when you get to just be patient and listen to
Speaker 1: someone reflect on their own emotions, because it encourages you
Speaker 1: to do the same for yourself. And so I know
Speaker 1: that you know, to the hundreds of thousands of people
Speaker 1: millions of people that would listening to this afterwards, I'm
Speaker 1: hoping that everyone who's listening and watching is also thinking
Speaker 1: about the questions that Hessu is asking thinking about the
Speaker 1: ideas that you're mentioning, and are gaining that self awareness
Speaker 1: and that regulation of their emotions and the understanding of themselves,
Speaker 1: because it's strange to sit in on a conversation. I
Speaker 1: think most of the time we spend our time in
Speaker 1: conversations thinking what am I going to say? Oh? What
Speaker 1: should I say back to that person? And obviously, as
Speaker 1: we see with Hersue, what she's doing is she's trying
Speaker 1: not to project her own feelings so that she can
Speaker 1: truly listen to you. And then I've just been silent
Speaker 1: for the last nearly forty minutes, forty five minutes, And
Speaker 1: that's actually a really powerful practice, true, because now you're
Speaker 1: not sitting there thinking what should I say, or how
Speaker 1: do I sound, or oh I can relate or not relate,
Speaker 1: or judging, but I can just observe. And so I
Speaker 1: think this has been a really powerful practice, even for
Speaker 1: me to just sit and listen and sit in here.
Speaker 1: I think it's just been a healthy conversation to have
Speaker 1: a discussion about, you know, the benefits you've seen and
Speaker 1: the growth you've seen. And I think that's a great
Speaker 1: starting point for this series and just understanding the benefits
Speaker 1: of therapy and someone who's you know, committed to two
Speaker 1: years two years, right, someone who's committed to two years
Speaker 1: of therapy and the benefits they've seen. I'm very happy
Speaker 1: with the fact that everyone who's been listening and watching
Speaker 1: has had the opportunity to sit in on a conversation
Speaker 1: with a therapist and see how where some of the
Speaker 1: questioning can go, and also to sit with someone who
Speaker 1: has done therapy, who is able to articulate and explain
Speaker 1: their experiences, you know, clearly, yeah, and concisely. I know
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who are like me. I
Speaker 1: don't have a family to turn to or at the
Speaker 1: time many friends. I don't have a huge sport system,
Speaker 1: so I really truly felt very very alone. So to
Speaker 1: take those steps, it takes a lot of courage. And
Speaker 1: I hope people listening really take away like even though
Speaker 1: I am I am alone, like I don't have that
Speaker 1: support system, there's still hope for me, like I'm still worthy,
Speaker 1: And I hope, I really really really really hope that
Speaker 1: they do their research and really find someone they connect with.
Speaker 1: And I do not want them to just get discouraged
Speaker 1: if they get a therapist and there's they're not connecting
Speaker 1: because not every therapist is going to be for you,
Speaker 1: and I think it's very very important to find the
Speaker 1: one that that is for you. And I really just
Speaker 1: hope people who are listening, really really really really do
Speaker 1: receive the help that they need, because there's nothing wrong
Speaker 1: or negative about therapy whatsoever. It truly is life changing
Speaker 1: and I do not regret it at all. I know
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it again. And I'm so grateful
Speaker 1: for my therapist. When we were, like we were on
Speaker 1: the phone during the COVID times and we were like
Speaker 1: saying our goodbyes, you know, She's like, I'm so proud
Speaker 1: of you actually, like you really have come so far.
Speaker 1: And I just started crying because she really was almost
Speaker 1: kind of like that mother feature that I never really had,
Speaker 1: and like someone who truly cared about me and wanted
Speaker 1: better for me. Yeah, you're describing so many like pinnacles
Speaker 1: of things that therapists learn about in grad school. Like
Speaker 1: you know, psychologists love to label label human behaviors with
Speaker 1: all kinds of words and stuff, but like the therapist
Speaker 1: becoming like a mother figure to you, That's that happens
Speaker 1: a lot, right, It's it's what we call like a
Speaker 1: corrective emotional experience. This person that is validating of you,
Speaker 1: that can listen to you, nurture you, kind of show
Speaker 1: you what gentle love and acceptance looks like and feels
Speaker 1: like in a really controlled, safe setting. And it's not that,
Speaker 1: like you know, therapists are not set out to like
Speaker 1: become your new family that, but I think experiences that
Speaker 1: come through sessions can help someone recognize, like I can
Speaker 1: create my own family, whatever that means to me, Like
Speaker 1: the stuff that I feel like is supposed to come
Speaker 1: from family, which is love, acceptance, support, I can provide
Speaker 1: that to myself, and I can learn how to do that, yes,
Speaker 1: with this other person that can model for me, because
Speaker 1: unfortunately my mom didn't or you know whatever, it is amazing. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you both so much for helping us sit in
Speaker 1: on that conversation and to observe and learn and listen
Speaker 1: and just really grateful for both of your honesty and
Speaker 1: transparency and as if for guiding this conversation and you know,
Speaker 1: as insightful thoughtful questions to really extrapolate the learnings and
Speaker 1: hope everyone who's been listening and watching back at home
Speaker 1: you felt you've got a bit more of an insight,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna be doing a lot of these episodes
Speaker 1: where we dive into different themes, have different conversations, look
Speaker 1: at this from different angles, and I'd love to hear
Speaker 1: your feedback. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd love
Speaker 1: to hear what you learned, what surprised you, maybe something
Speaker 1: you didn't expect, or maybe something that you felt reassured by.
Speaker 1: I'd genuinely love to hear from you. So make sure
Speaker 1: you share your feedback in the reviews, on Instagram, on Twitter,
Speaker 1: wherever else you're active. Please do let us know because
Speaker 1: I'm always looking out to see what is it that
Speaker 1: resonate with you, what is it that connected with you?
Speaker 1: And for those of you who don't know, this episode
Speaker 1: was brought to you by Better Help, which is helping
Speaker 1: millions of people by making professional therapy more affordable and
Speaker 1: accessible than ever. And I have shared my own top
Speaker 1: three reasons why I believe everyone can try therapy and
Speaker 1: to check that out, you can visit Betterhelp dot Com
Speaker 1: Forward slash Jay's top three And so that's Better Help
Speaker 1: dot Com Forward slash jas Jays. That's my name, t
Speaker 1: op three and when you do that, everyone who does
Speaker 1: that will get ten percent off your first month of
Speaker 1: online therapy when you sign up as well. So that's
Speaker 1: for our on purpose listeners, and so remember that you
Speaker 1: deserve to invest in yourself, and better help is a
Speaker 1: great way to start to do that. Thank you so much, Toso,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for joining me today. Heyso, Joe's
Speaker 1: input is intended to be general and informational in nature
Speaker 1: in case you might hear something on this show that
Speaker 1: sounds similar to what you're experiencing. Please note this episode
Speaker 1: is not intended to aid in any diagnosis of mental
Speaker 1: health struggles in listeners. If you're struggling, please find a
Speaker 1: qualified professional to assess and help you with your personal journey.