WEBVTT - CZM Rewind: As If We Had Been Imprisoned: The Migrant Reception Center

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>It's me James, and before we listen to this episode today,

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<v Speaker 2>I just did want to make you aware that I

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<v Speaker 2>conducted these interviews in French and Spanish, mostly Spanish, and

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<v Speaker 2>then transcribed and translated them. So what you're hearing is

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<v Speaker 2>a translated interview that's being edited for brevity and content.

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<v Speaker 3>I hope you enjoyed the episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Ramato. Some of you recognize the audio that we opened

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<v Speaker 2>this show with, and then if you won't, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>sample from the fourth Declaration of the Lacandon Jungle that

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<v Speaker 2>Manuchow used to open his shows with. It's a piece

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<v Speaker 2>of music that's very emotive for me. Obviously, I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>white leftist guy in my thirties who learned Spanish and

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<v Speaker 2>decided to live in Barcelona. So I have a story

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<v Speaker 2>about running into Manuchow once where he was busking, but

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<v Speaker 2>that's not what I want to share today. Because I'm

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<v Speaker 2>technology challenged, I can't seem to get my phone to

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<v Speaker 2>download songs, but I've managed to download the same Manuchow playlist,

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<v Speaker 2>and I ripped off a rewriteable CD when I was

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<v Speaker 2>in high school and put it on the various headphones

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<v Speaker 2>and garment. Watch it that I've had of the last

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<v Speaker 2>two decades or so. When I'm away for work, I

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<v Speaker 2>like to run whenever I can. Obviously, I wasn't just

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<v Speaker 2>going to go for a jog straight into the Darien Gap.

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<v Speaker 2>But once we were out of Bajajiqito, it gave me

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<v Speaker 2>some time to run and think and process the things

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<v Speaker 2>that I've seen. And while I do that, I listen

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<v Speaker 2>to the same does and al So MP three files.

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<v Speaker 2>I was listening to this song one day after I

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<v Speaker 2>got back from LaaS Blancas as I sweated my way

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<v Speaker 2>up ahead in the rainforest, hoping to see a sloth.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't see a sloth, but it seemed like an

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<v Speaker 2>appropriate soundtrack. Manucho himself as a child of refugees from

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<v Speaker 2>Francoist Spain. He sings in French and Spanish, while off

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<v Speaker 2>and Galician and Portuguese, among other languages, often several of

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<v Speaker 2>them in the same song, the product of growing up

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<v Speaker 2>among other migrants of diverse backgrounds. I like the way

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<v Speaker 2>he plays with language because it reminds me of the

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<v Speaker 2>way I so often speak to my friends Spanglish, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>or Franglais. It's the way people talk in border regions

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<v Speaker 2>and refugee camps, languages that don't have the support of

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<v Speaker 2>a state or the academy, but nonetheless convey so much

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<v Speaker 2>meaning for so many people. That song in particular reminds

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<v Speaker 2>me of my first time reading about Zapatismo in a

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<v Speaker 2>tiny anarchist cafe in the West Midlands. I remember being struck,

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<v Speaker 2>as a kid from Europe who would frequently drive to

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<v Speaker 2>France or Belgium to race bikes and buy cheap beer,

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<v Speaker 2>that the USA still maintained a fortified border with Mexico.

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<v Speaker 2>People couldn't travel freely, but money could. It was its

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<v Speaker 2>realization and the writings in particular Socomante Marcos, along with

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<v Speaker 2>my talks in Spain to old anarchists, that encouraged me

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<v Speaker 2>to learn Spanish, which I pursued by spending months in

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<v Speaker 2>Spain and Venezuela and learning thanks to the patient to

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<v Speaker 2>the people around me. It was a new anarchism which

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<v Speaker 2>came from the periphery, not only a liberal corps, which

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<v Speaker 2>gave me my first serious politics. I traveled to Venezuela

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<v Speaker 2>to understand the revolution there. I did a PhD to

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<v Speaker 2>try and understand the revolution in Spain. It's all very

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<v Speaker 2>well understanding things, but I think it's much more important

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<v Speaker 2>to do things, and I tried to practice mutual aid

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<v Speaker 2>as much as I can. Since I got back from

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<v Speaker 2>the daddy En, I've loaded up a heavy backpack and

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<v Speaker 2>carried water into the desert and spent hours trying to

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<v Speaker 2>connect the friends I made in the jungle with services

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<v Speaker 2>along the way. In the face of so much cruelty,

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<v Speaker 2>it feels it's good to be doing something to help

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<v Speaker 2>a carrying the water is away. I can make a

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<v Speaker 2>material difference in a terrible situation. But in all my

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<v Speaker 2>time reporting, I've really never felt as disempowered and helpless

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<v Speaker 2>as I did in Last Blancas. Here at the first

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<v Speaker 2>official migrant reception center after Daddi Enne. The Panamanian government

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<v Speaker 2>registers migrants NGOs, offer a few services, and the US

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<v Speaker 2>funded process of deportation for migrants from Colombia, Cuba, Venezuela

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<v Speaker 2>and India begins. Some of those sent to India might

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<v Speaker 2>well be Nepalese who often travel on fake Indian passports.

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<v Speaker 2>The Siddle cluster of cheap tents, shipping container offices, un shelters,

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<v Speaker 2>and barbed wire offences is where the rubber meets a

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<v Speaker 2>road for the USA's border and migration policy, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>heartbreaking to witness as migrants were called up to the

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<v Speaker 2>security office to begin the deportation process. I tried to

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<v Speaker 2>narrate the scene into my voice recorder, but I struggled,

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<v Speaker 2>in part because their family members asked me questions, hoping

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<v Speaker 2>I can help.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, planks on a side.

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<v Speaker 2>But in a larger part this was also difficult because

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't help, and I deeply wanted to. The best

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<v Speaker 2>I could offer was an arm around someone's shoulder, and

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<v Speaker 2>I promise to email anyone who I could think of

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<v Speaker 2>and ask what was going on.

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<v Speaker 4>This guy's just sobbing.

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<v Speaker 5>Ah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's really tough. Some people's parents, some people's partners.

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<v Speaker 6>And.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll explain exactly what was happening in a moment, But

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<v Speaker 2>first I want to explain how I got here. On

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<v Speaker 2>the day we left Maragante, we set off at the

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<v Speaker 2>same time some migrants who are making their own journey

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<v Speaker 2>to last Blankets is carrying only myself and my fixed

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<v Speaker 2>daddy and Aguero, so we're moving a lot faster than

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<v Speaker 2>the boats full of migrants on the way north. We

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<v Speaker 2>passed them, they smiled and waves we rode by. Many

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<v Speaker 2>of them had met me the day before. All of

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<v Speaker 2>them were ecstatic to have survived the daddy en and

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<v Speaker 2>be heading north. You know, it's a pretty busy stretch

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<v Speaker 2>river that's probably three or four Piagua was full of migrants.

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<v Speaker 4>Hello, they're kids shogging at me.

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<v Speaker 2>Going to taught them some English words yesterday and they're

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<v Speaker 2>shouting them back to me today.

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<v Speaker 4>Which is nice. We got it family from Panama. They

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<v Speaker 4>might be Indio people are something.

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<v Speaker 2>They're littleville shocked to the whole scene. Here we are

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<v Speaker 2>passing another bit of Agua. Now they're all waving in

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<v Speaker 2>the it's got to be uncomfortable pack that don't see

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<v Speaker 2>into a bi Agua one, two, three, four or five, six, seven,

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<v Speaker 2>eighty nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirty sixteen people.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Once they boath arrived, they disembark in Last Blancas. The

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<v Speaker 2>next day I was there to meet them. We're just

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<v Speaker 2>walking into Las Blancas. It's hectic here, so it's a

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<v Speaker 2>new shop here, and outside the shop they've made like

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<v Speaker 2>a line of outlets to charge people. It's a dollar

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<v Speaker 2>an hour to charge your telephone. As we go in,

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<v Speaker 2>there are a row of like kind of sheds which

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<v Speaker 2>represent shops. And then further in every ngo has its

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<v Speaker 2>own little kind of shed. They're all covered in tarps.

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<v Speaker 2>They're like canvas and tarp tents. Actually here so see

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<v Speaker 2>UNISEEF I see oh I am.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, they have that sort of little tent office here.

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<v Speaker 4>I guess.

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<v Speaker 2>See here as for example, has route information, psychological supports.

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<v Speaker 4>They've spaced for women.

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<v Speaker 2>WONISEF has some workshops for children. And then in the hours,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, nice little chairs in there.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah see. Then you can't take photographs in there, which

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<v Speaker 4>is good. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And then it's just a crowd of people coming out.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's also Mormon, little little Mormon situation.

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<v Speaker 4>See me.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess thee o I am are supported by Church

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<v Speaker 2>of Jesus Christ on that today Saints and the.

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<v Speaker 4>Red Cross has got a shipping container.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been hoping last Black Gusts would be a better

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<v Speaker 2>scene than Bajugito, with more organized sleeping arrangements and hopefully

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<v Speaker 2>basic necessities like clean water, food and Wi Fi provided

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<v Speaker 2>by their numerous NGOs who work there. But if any

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<v Speaker 2>think it was worse in Bajo Jugito. In Bajuquito, migrants

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<v Speaker 2>were exhausted but also ecstatic to be at the jungle.

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<v Speaker 2>They you they'll be moving forward the next day, and

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<v Speaker 2>for a few bucks they can get anythink they needed

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<v Speaker 2>in the village. The locals told me that if kids

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<v Speaker 2>didn't have their money to eat, they fed them for free.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't see this, but nobody's seen.

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<v Speaker 2>That they're having a very hard time in any of

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<v Speaker 2>the dayta viceded the village, at least not for financial reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>Maggots can get as far as Bajo Jiguito on a

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<v Speaker 2>few hundred dollars in their t nasty They pay Columbian

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<v Speaker 2>guides a few hundred bucks to bring them across the

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<v Speaker 2>ocean from Necopie and to walk them from the border,

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<v Speaker 2>and they parried and barra Perraguero's twenty five bucks for

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<v Speaker 2>the ride up the river. But once they get to

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<v Speaker 2>last Blankerts. For a good number of migrants, their journey

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<v Speaker 2>grinds to a halt. Many of them told me they've

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<v Speaker 2>been stuck in the camp for weeks or even months

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<v Speaker 2>because they couldn't get that sixty dollars that they needed

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<v Speaker 2>to pay for their travel north. There's no Western Union

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<v Speaker 2>in the camp, and the only way to transfer money

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<v Speaker 2>is very local intermediary who charges between twenty and twenty

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<v Speaker 2>five percent of the sum being transferred as a fee.

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<v Speaker 2>In the morning, migrants arrive on their paraguas, just as

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<v Speaker 2>we did. I dropped down the boat ramp when I

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<v Speaker 2>saw them to help with their bags, and I'll go

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<v Speaker 2>about their journey from there. They formed two lines, one

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<v Speaker 2>for men and one for women and children. They have

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<v Speaker 2>their bag search and their passport checked. They're given a

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<v Speaker 2>welcome kit for the Red Cross with some basic necessities

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<v Speaker 2>toilet paper, a toothbrush, some soap, stuff like that, or

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<v Speaker 2>some of them get a kid. When the kids ran out,

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<v Speaker 2>it was long before the line of people did. By

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<v Speaker 2>the time the men were finished, they were given a

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<v Speaker 2>little more than a shrug and good wishes better Red

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<v Speaker 2>Cross volunteers and allowed to head off into the camp.

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<v Speaker 2>Within the camp, there are a few rows of small

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<v Speaker 2>casitas that are allocated to un accompanied children and families.

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<v Speaker 2>They're little more than four walls in a roof, but

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<v Speaker 2>they offer a bit of privacy for most migrants, though

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<v Speaker 2>there isn't space and they have to search for a

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<v Speaker 2>spot of empty ground in the crowded camp where they

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<v Speaker 2>can pitch. The same tents. They bought a necko Keley.

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<v Speaker 2>The WiFi, which a Red Cross usually provides, wasn't working

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<v Speaker 2>when I arrived, so I had to let people hot

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<v Speaker 2>spot off my phone all day. At least the promised

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<v Speaker 2>food really was free, but the migrant told me it

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<v Speaker 2>was far from good. Still, this is supposed to be

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<v Speaker 2>a temporary camp. People register here, get any medical attention

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<v Speaker 2>they need, and then move forward to Costa Rica. That's

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<v Speaker 2>the theory anyway. In practice, if you can't get the

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<v Speaker 2>sixty bucks, you need to move forward, or someone stole

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<v Speaker 2>it from me in the jungle, or you are forced

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<v Speaker 2>to walk to the camp because you didn't have twenty

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<v Speaker 2>five bucks for the boat and then someone rubbed you.

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<v Speaker 2>Then you're stuck.

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<v Speaker 7>We have been here a month. You have people who've

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<v Speaker 7>been here a month and a half. I've been twenty

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<v Speaker 7>seven days here. Well, I thank god because we have

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<v Speaker 7>three meals a day, we have water, but it still

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<v Speaker 7>hurts the girls. The food and water always make me

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<v Speaker 7>sick with diarrhea. It bothers me. I vomit and the

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<v Speaker 7>heat is so desperate. But we have to hold on

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<v Speaker 7>because even though we don't have the resources, like we

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<v Speaker 7>don't have enough to pay for a ticket. We have

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<v Speaker 7>to hold on here a little longer. We don't have

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<v Speaker 7>any family members can give us support.

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<v Speaker 3>Either.

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<v Speaker 2>What's keeping the migrants here is money, or rather a

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<v Speaker 2>lack of it. They need sixty bucks to leave. Buses

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<v Speaker 2>used to take five free passengers per bus, but under

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<v Speaker 2>Panama's new regime it seems like they don't. Instead, migrants

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<v Speaker 2>just gradually a mass in growing number of tents that

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<v Speaker 2>populate the grassy areas of LaaS blankets. They might try

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<v Speaker 2>and do some informal work. I saw one guy who

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<v Speaker 2>was cutting hair for a dollar a time, but I

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't really get a satisfactory response to what they're expected

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<v Speaker 2>to do. If they don't have the money and can't

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<v Speaker 2>get someone to send us seventy five dollars, they'd need

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<v Speaker 2>to cover their travel costs and the twenty five percent transfer.

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<v Speaker 7>Feel if you're short ten dollars, they don't put you

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<v Speaker 7>on the bus or anything. So things are terrible here.

0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.200
<v Speaker 7>There should at least be support for migrants who at

0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:51.079
<v Speaker 7>least come with few resources. They don't have money or anything.

0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:53.560
<v Speaker 7>They can search your bag so they can see that

0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.480
<v Speaker 7>you're not lying that you don't have money, because nobody

0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.360
<v Speaker 7>wants to be stuck here. You have to move forward,

0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.680
<v Speaker 7>because nobody wants to be stuck here in Panama. The

0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.320
<v Speaker 7>idea is to move forward to get further ahead. We

0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.960
<v Speaker 7>brought our children to look for a future, not to

0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.480
<v Speaker 7>be locked up here in Panama, as if we've been imprisoned.

0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.840
<v Speaker 2>The group even tried to leave on foot, hoping to

0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.120
<v Speaker 2>begin walking north, and so it's for better future and

0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:21.520
<v Speaker 2>a way to make money on their way. But they

0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.000
<v Speaker 2>were caught, they say, and returned to the camera.

0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.040
<v Speaker 7>And they beat me hard. I gave myself up because

0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.760
<v Speaker 7>they had caught her, a grandmother with my other daughter.

0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:37.240
<v Speaker 7>I returned myself voluntarily, and they beat me up anyway.

0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.840
<v Speaker 7>And from there we've lost the desire to walk back there.

0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:45.559
<v Speaker 7>What can we do rights? They don't care about them.

0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.760
<v Speaker 7>We are human beings, but we don't have rights here

0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:49.360
<v Speaker 7>in Panama.

0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.280
<v Speaker 2>If they do have the money, Margarets could take a

0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.480
<v Speaker 2>bus to the Costa Rican border. When the busts first arrived,

0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.840
<v Speaker 2>I tried to describe the scene as migrants rushed to

0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.160
<v Speaker 2>buy food, not only for this journey, but also for

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.000
<v Speaker 2>their journey through Costallika, where food and other basics are

0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.800
<v Speaker 2>much more expensive. I'm here in La Lablancas when the

0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:07.120
<v Speaker 2>first buses have arrived.

0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:08.000
<v Speaker 4>It's about noon.

0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.320
<v Speaker 2>The first bus is going to be followed people who

0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.160
<v Speaker 2>had been waiting in line for hours already, so they're

0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:15.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of lining up by the bus.

0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:16.240
<v Speaker 4>And then.

0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:19.160
<v Speaker 2>The next bus is people seem to be kind of

0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:21.640
<v Speaker 2>rushing to get to them. They're rushing to my food.

0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:23.920
<v Speaker 2>I can just see this guy has like an entire

0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.800
<v Speaker 2>carrier bag full of pink Wave for biscuits and coke bottles,

0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:30.080
<v Speaker 2>that that's going to be his food for the next

0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:30.760
<v Speaker 2>eleven hours.

0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.040
<v Speaker 4>I guess other guys.

0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.240
<v Speaker 2>Will see with bags of bread, rolls and stuff, and

0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.040
<v Speaker 2>they're the first people.

0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:37.600
<v Speaker 4>Are getting on the bus.

0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Now, these buses aren't entirely safe. In twenty twenty three,

0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.840
<v Speaker 2>forty two people died in a bus crash. This year,

0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.480
<v Speaker 2>seventeen were innted in a crash in August. Now, migration

0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:51.720
<v Speaker 2>offices ride in each bus with the migrants to check

0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.240
<v Speaker 2>on safety protocols and make sure they don't get off

0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.120
<v Speaker 2>anywhere else in the country, just like everywhere else on

0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:57.720
<v Speaker 2>their journey.

0:14:58.000 --> 0:14:59.480
<v Speaker 3>People make money off the migrants.

0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.240
<v Speaker 2>In Las Blancats, a bus costs sixty dollars ahead and

0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.760
<v Speaker 2>has fifty five passages three thousand, three hundred dollars a bus.

0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:08.400
<v Speaker 3>More than a dozen buses.

0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Leave every day, and even half of a thousand or

0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.520
<v Speaker 2>so people who arrived us a transfer service to get

0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.880
<v Speaker 2>their bus fare. That's seven five hundred dollars in transfer

0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 2>fees alone. Of course, not everyone in the community is

0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.760
<v Speaker 2>making thousands of dollars off the migrants. I interviewed local

0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.600
<v Speaker 2>shopkeeper who still sits just outside the camp gates, and

0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.400
<v Speaker 2>I asked him to explain his stock, which included the

0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.080
<v Speaker 2>oddly popular I backed the blue Thin blue.

0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:32.920
<v Speaker 3>Lion T shirt. So I'd seen several people across the

0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:33.760
<v Speaker 3>daddy and gap.

0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:43.160
<v Speaker 8>In Okay, Mayamo your only fucking money.

0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.240
<v Speaker 2>I asked him what was the most common shopping list

0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:49.280
<v Speaker 2>for migrants.

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.560
<v Speaker 8>See Cassie lay.

0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.080
<v Speaker 9>Yes, almost all of them coming by sets for ten, fifteen,

0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.640
<v Speaker 9>twenty dollars. It depends there are many who don't have them.

0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.360
<v Speaker 9>I have children's sets for five dollars. I have sets

0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.160
<v Speaker 9>for five dollars that are pants and sweaters, which is

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.560
<v Speaker 9>what they're looking for the most. Those that are socks

0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:10.240
<v Speaker 9>without underwear, backpacks for fifteen dollars. Because the backpack is

0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.200
<v Speaker 9>so worn out and they need it so much that

0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.800
<v Speaker 9>it carries their belongings. Look, it's not really everyone who

0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 9>can buy. There are certain people who buy, of course,

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 9>if everyone bought, but there are very few can buy

0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.920
<v Speaker 9>something to leave here. Almost seventy percent leave dirty because

0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:27.520
<v Speaker 9>they don't have anywhere to get money, and the little

0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.400
<v Speaker 9>they can get often comes from selling their phones, their watch,

0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:32.520
<v Speaker 9>a cap, or their sneakers to be able to get

0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:34.480
<v Speaker 9>money to pay for their fare to keep going.

0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.280
<v Speaker 2>I asked him how the migration had impacted the community

0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.800
<v Speaker 2>with people making a lot of money, I asked, were

0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:42.880
<v Speaker 2>they mad about the trash and the pollution of the river.

0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.080
<v Speaker 2>These are legitimate concerns, even if they used in bad

0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:47.560
<v Speaker 2>faith against the migrants.

0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:48.280
<v Speaker 8>No effect.

0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.400
<v Speaker 9>Though nobody is perfect, but I can tell you one thing. Honestly,

0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.560
<v Speaker 9>the migrants suffer a lot to be able to carry

0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.080
<v Speaker 9>out this journey. And there are many times when I've

0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 9>even had to give them clothes, some because they don't

0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.320
<v Speaker 9>have any. And well, when a father and family with

0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:04.480
<v Speaker 9>children comes, what can I say, Look, I have a family,

0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:05.360
<v Speaker 9>I have to do this.

0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 8>Yeah.

0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:08.879
<v Speaker 2>I asked him what he felt the solution was to

0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.280
<v Speaker 2>the suffering here the damage done both to people and planet.

0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:17.840
<v Speaker 9>Hey, I say that oppressing people so that they don't

0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.479
<v Speaker 9>go through the dairyen is not the solution because if

0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:22.240
<v Speaker 9>you put it to the point, even if they don't

0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:24.919
<v Speaker 9>know an exact percentage, the immigrant gives the economy of

0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.600
<v Speaker 9>the United States a balance because the people born there.

0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:32.400
<v Speaker 9>Not to criticize them, people born there want a stable job,

0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.520
<v Speaker 9>and he doesn't want to feel like he's very very low. However,

0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.840
<v Speaker 9>the immigrant is there and he's picking fruit, going to

0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.240
<v Speaker 9>the fruit trees, going to the vegetable fields, going to

0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 9>the garbage dumps, going picking up things that many Americans

0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.080
<v Speaker 9>who live there don't do, of course, and so they

0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.160
<v Speaker 9>need them to say that they don't go. They need

0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:51.760
<v Speaker 9>the support of the immigrant to be able to have

0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.960
<v Speaker 9>the balance that they have today.

0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.119
<v Speaker 2>Like a lot of Panamanians I met, he was broadly

0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.439
<v Speaker 2>in solidarity the migrants. I didn't really encounter anti migrants

0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.760
<v Speaker 2>sentiment at all in my time at Panama. In the

0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.840
<v Speaker 2>capital city, which locals just called Panama but we can

0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:12.159
<v Speaker 2>call Panama City, migrants are not really physically present, nor

0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:15.639
<v Speaker 2>are they present in conversation. I found the transition for

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.440
<v Speaker 2>the jungle and the refugee camps back to the bustling

0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.840
<v Speaker 2>city pretty challenging a lot of ways. I find I'm

0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.600
<v Speaker 2>oddly comfortable amidst the chaos and trauma of a refugee camp.

0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:27.239
<v Speaker 2>It's a familiar environment for me, and I know how

0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.199
<v Speaker 2>to conduct myself. I feel safe with the migrants, and

0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.520
<v Speaker 2>I tend to find them very open and welcoming to me.

0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.560
<v Speaker 2>I can talk to anyone, and they can talk to me.

0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.640
<v Speaker 2>I bring toys for children and try to bring resources

0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:40.639
<v Speaker 2>for adults, and sometimes I bring my harmonica if I

0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.159
<v Speaker 2>being really cliche in a weird way. Refugee camps are

0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.560
<v Speaker 2>a little safe space for me, and even though I

0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.280
<v Speaker 2>know it's bad, I can console myself that I'm helping

0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.760
<v Speaker 2>a little or at least giving people some hope and

0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:55.199
<v Speaker 2>some information. That made me feel a bit better. But

0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.320
<v Speaker 2>in the city I found it hard, knowing that people

0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.960
<v Speaker 2>were in a terrible situation and that nobody here seemed

0:18:59.960 --> 0:19:02.600
<v Speaker 2>to care. I went for a running the jungle near

0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.240
<v Speaker 2>the city, trying to get some perspective and clear my head,

0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.640
<v Speaker 2>but I just ended up screaming and didn't considerate driver.

0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:10.919
<v Speaker 2>I was angry at them for nearly hitting me, but

0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:13.879
<v Speaker 2>I was just angry at everyone all over the US

0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.359
<v Speaker 2>and even here in Panama City for their indifference at

0:19:16.400 --> 0:20:14.000
<v Speaker 2>so much human suffering. The lack of concern about migrants

0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.160
<v Speaker 2>in Panama City made what I saw next at Last

0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Blankets even more surprising. An announcement of the loud speakers

0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:24.200
<v Speaker 2>called several Colombian passport holders to the migration office. At first,

0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:25.560
<v Speaker 2>it seemed like they were just going to a little

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:27.760
<v Speaker 2>wooden shed with a couple of cene front officers in

0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.439
<v Speaker 2>it to return their documents. I had already noticed that

0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.840
<v Speaker 2>some migrants, and seemingly most of the African migrants, were

0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.520
<v Speaker 2>being called to a different shed to do biometric scans.

0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:40.080
<v Speaker 2>I wondered if this was part of the same process.

0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.680
<v Speaker 2>But shortly thereafter a truck rolled up and several of

0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:47.159
<v Speaker 2>the Colombians were loaded in. Apparently neither they nor their

0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.040
<v Speaker 2>partners knew what was going on. They're taking some of

0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:51.919
<v Speaker 2>the Columbian guys away to deport them. You can hear

0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:59.560
<v Speaker 2>a little kid crying for his dad.

0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:02.199
<v Speaker 4>Okay, listen, you sell a.

0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:15.199
<v Speaker 2>Jure taking his brother and his brother's wife, taking some

0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.680
<v Speaker 2>other lady's husband, some of little.

0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:23.920
<v Speaker 4>Kid's dad and making them sit on the floor. I

0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:29.040
<v Speaker 4>don't know why. Yeah, I don't know what they're going

0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:29.240
<v Speaker 4>to do.

0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:29.520
<v Speaker 2>Now.

0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:34.639
<v Speaker 4>She's trying to.

0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Give her husband the money and a SIM card so

0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:39.560
<v Speaker 2>he can call her.

0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:44.800
<v Speaker 4>You're gonna go get some more food.

0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Other margarets approached me to us if I knew, which

0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:49.800
<v Speaker 2>I didn't. The one lady who'd been there for weeks

0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:51.560
<v Speaker 2>told me that people who leave this way never come

0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:55.280
<v Speaker 2>back and they end up being deported, So we assume

0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:56.280
<v Speaker 2>that's what's happening here.

0:21:57.200 --> 0:21:58.200
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, this really sucks.

0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:02.240
<v Speaker 2>Now they're taking the deportation by. There's men crying.

0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:02.920
<v Speaker 4>Becau said.

0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:05.919
<v Speaker 2>Wives are on their women crying, their husbands are on

0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:10.879
<v Speaker 2>their kids are crying, their parents are on there, and

0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:12.600
<v Speaker 2>they've just done this crossing and now they're going to

0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:16.639
<v Speaker 2>send them back. By the time I got back to

0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:19.000
<v Speaker 2>the city, I was getting texts from migrants with photos

0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.560
<v Speaker 2>of them in handcuffs. More and more of them were

0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:25.840
<v Speaker 2>being deported, particularly the Colombians. One of them, texting me

0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.480
<v Speaker 2>after being returned to Columbia on a flight, gave the

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:29.840
<v Speaker 2>following account of detention.

0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:34.520
<v Speaker 1>They treated us very badly verbally and psychologically. We all

0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:36.720
<v Speaker 1>had to do our business in the same cell and

0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:38.920
<v Speaker 1>they threw food on the floor for us to eat

0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:41.679
<v Speaker 1>as we were all in handcuffs. They told us that

0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:44.639
<v Speaker 1>of Venezuelan had burned down the migrant detention center in

0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:47.400
<v Speaker 1>San Vincente and that we would all pay for it,

0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:49.919
<v Speaker 1>and that the Colombians didn't need to leave the country

0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.280
<v Speaker 1>because the president there said it was doing well and

0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:54.879
<v Speaker 1>there's plenty of work. None of that is true.

0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:58.919
<v Speaker 2>The American facility in sambacent they was burned out, and

0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.439
<v Speaker 2>the people working there top it was a Venezuelan migrant

0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:01.960
<v Speaker 2>who did that.

0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:03.919
<v Speaker 3>But all of that excuses any of this.

0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:07.160
<v Speaker 2>We weren't able to access that facility as the people

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:09.440
<v Speaker 2>who had detained there. I can't really consent meaningfully to

0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:13.359
<v Speaker 2>an interview. That's a fair enough for paction. But the

0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:16.560
<v Speaker 2>migrant who was deported also alleged that they received no

0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.679
<v Speaker 2>hearings or a chance to appeal their deportation. Instead, they

0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:23.080
<v Speaker 2>were detained for eight days, spent their last US dollars,

0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:25.920
<v Speaker 2>and were then kicked out of the country. They were

0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:29.040
<v Speaker 2>not detained or arrested upon reaching Columbia, which makes it

0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:31.199
<v Speaker 2>a little more difficult for me to believe the claim

0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:34.600
<v Speaker 2>that only people without standing warrants in Columbia were being deported.

0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:38.280
<v Speaker 2>These weren't the only allegations of mistreatment I heard. Margrants

0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:40.120
<v Speaker 2>came to me and whispered about the abuse of black

0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:42.560
<v Speaker 2>migrants who were forced to walk to Lahas Blancos because

0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.080
<v Speaker 2>they couldn't afford the boat ride. I should note that

0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:47.200
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't the migrants who had been robbed or abuse

0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:50.080
<v Speaker 2>that came to me, It was other migrants. There was

0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:51.760
<v Speaker 2>a group of guys had given a water filter too

0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:54.240
<v Speaker 2>while they were leaving to walk from Lahas Blancas. I

0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:57.480
<v Speaker 2>hadn't been able to join them, but when they got there,

0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:00.000
<v Speaker 2>we ran into each other again, and they came up

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:02.320
<v Speaker 2>to meet to share their concerns for the black men

0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:05.400
<v Speaker 2>who had walked with them. In one instance, one migrant

0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:07.600
<v Speaker 2>told me he was robbed by what he called quote

0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:11.480
<v Speaker 2>police dressed as thieves. The deportations, which seemed to be

0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:15.399
<v Speaker 2>increasingly commonplace, are being funded by US taxpayer dollars. The

0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:18.720
<v Speaker 2>same day that Molino took office in July, Homeland Security

0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:22.520
<v Speaker 2>Secretary Alejandro Majorcas, himself the child of migrants.

0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:23.719
<v Speaker 3>Visited Panama.

0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Panama's a relatively young country and one which the US

0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:29.280
<v Speaker 2>occupied part of from much of the last century, but

0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:33.240
<v Speaker 2>despite a real struggle for independence, the Panamanian government didn't

0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:36.119
<v Speaker 2>seem concerned that the U. S Secretary of Homeland Security

0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:38.840
<v Speaker 2>was present at the inauguration of a president in a

0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:42.240
<v Speaker 2>country that decidedly not the U S homeland. The official

0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:45.280
<v Speaker 2>DHS readout of his trip notes that the US has

0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:48.400
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed a flourishing strategic relationship with Panama for over one

0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:51.080
<v Speaker 2>hundred years, which is certainly one way to sew up

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:54.199
<v Speaker 2>decades of occupation, violence, and profit from the Panama Canal

0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:56.800
<v Speaker 2>and one of the more brutal dictatorships in the long

0:24:56.840 --> 0:25:00.280
<v Speaker 2>list of authoritarian regimes that the US preferred to com minister,

0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:03.840
<v Speaker 2>even socialist governments in the Western Hemisphere. They also announced

0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:06.879
<v Speaker 2>that the US government would quote help the Panamanian government

0:25:06.920 --> 0:25:09.359
<v Speaker 2>to remove foreign nationals who do not have a legal

0:25:09.359 --> 0:25:13.160
<v Speaker 2>basis to remain in Panama. Obviously, actually take this moment

0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:16.439
<v Speaker 2>to note that under the United Nations Refugee Convention, refugees

0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:18.280
<v Speaker 2>do have a legal right to travel.

0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:20.920
<v Speaker 3>Through a country on route to another. His Erica describing

0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:21.439
<v Speaker 3>that right.

0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:25.119
<v Speaker 5>The refuge you canvention is complex, then, does afford a

0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:27.400
<v Speaker 5>lot of rights to people who have fled their countries

0:25:27.960 --> 0:25:30.360
<v Speaker 5>based on persecution. You know, you're supposed to be able

0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:32.879
<v Speaker 5>to pass through whichever country you want, go to, whichever

0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:36.480
<v Speaker 5>country you want, not be criminally prosecuted for crossing the

0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:38.880
<v Speaker 5>border between ports of entry and not be turned back

0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:40.399
<v Speaker 5>to a country or you face harm.

0:25:40.960 --> 0:25:43.600
<v Speaker 2>The US allocated six million dollars for a six month

0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:48.159
<v Speaker 2>pilot program of repatriations. If the program meets the USA's goals,

0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:50.600
<v Speaker 2>they might consider expanding it to other countries along the

0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:55.080
<v Speaker 2>migrant route. According to reporting in routers, as of early October,

0:25:55.119 --> 0:25:58.120
<v Speaker 2>they've deported five hundred and thirty people to Columbia. That's

0:25:58.160 --> 0:25:59.960
<v Speaker 2>half of the people I saw arriving in a single

0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:04.480
<v Speaker 2>day in Bajojigito. Because Panama's government and Venezuela's government have

0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:08.280
<v Speaker 2>ceased relations after the election, Panama is now struggling to

0:26:08.280 --> 0:26:11.359
<v Speaker 2>deport Venezuelan's back to Venezuela, and it's actively searching for

0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:14.400
<v Speaker 2>a third country into which to deport them. But even

0:26:14.440 --> 0:26:17.040
<v Speaker 2>if the program resulted in one plane loaded day, which

0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:19.159
<v Speaker 2>it hasn't yet, that would be roughly ten percent of

0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:22.400
<v Speaker 2>the total DADDY in traffic, and far fewer planes are traveling.

0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:26.200
<v Speaker 2>What it will do like so many other DHS policies,

0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:29.679
<v Speaker 2>is play into the hands of smugglers. Already, new ocean

0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:32.360
<v Speaker 2>routes are being used which see migrants, many of whom

0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:35.800
<v Speaker 2>cannot swim, taking long journeys around Panama on ill equipped boats.

0:26:36.480 --> 0:26:39.679
<v Speaker 2>This doesn't help anyone apart from the DHS contractors and

0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:43.520
<v Speaker 2>staff equipping and training Panamanian personnel, and the human traffickers

0:26:43.640 --> 0:26:47.080
<v Speaker 2>making more and more money from migration. I also shopkeeper

0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:47.879
<v Speaker 2>his opinion on this.

0:26:53.760 --> 0:26:53.960
<v Speaker 8>Look.

0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:55.760
<v Speaker 9>I'll tell you I think that instead of giving them

0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:59.000
<v Speaker 9>a reward for deportation, they should give them support, a

0:26:59.000 --> 0:27:02.000
<v Speaker 9>lot of support, because it is a huge sacrifice to

0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:04.959
<v Speaker 9>leave your country where you were born, your children, your family,

0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:07.720
<v Speaker 9>leave it to be able to have a future, and

0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:09.760
<v Speaker 9>you go with your mentality that your future is the

0:27:09.840 --> 0:27:12.679
<v Speaker 9>United States that will give you an opportunity to get

0:27:12.720 --> 0:27:17.040
<v Speaker 9>ahead and give well being to your children. Now, ten

0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:19.040
<v Speaker 9>percent of those who go are going to destroy the

0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:21.920
<v Speaker 9>good name of the migrants, But what people really want

0:27:21.920 --> 0:27:26.520
<v Speaker 9>to do is help their family, and this balance unbalances

0:27:26.640 --> 0:27:28.919
<v Speaker 9>everything that is being done by good people. Because there

0:27:28.920 --> 0:27:32.040
<v Speaker 9>are many good people who want to get ahead. And

0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:35.240
<v Speaker 9>I think that the United States should support give support

0:27:35.280 --> 0:27:37.359
<v Speaker 9>to people who really want to fight and move forward.

0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:40.080
<v Speaker 9>As I just told you, they give a lot of

0:27:40.119 --> 0:28:11.320
<v Speaker 9>benefit they contribute to the country.

0:28:14.520 --> 0:28:17.159
<v Speaker 2>After leaving Las Blancas, I felt pretty down about the

0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:18.840
<v Speaker 2>fact that people were just hitting a wall that they

0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:22.080
<v Speaker 2>couldn't overcome. Since then, I've stayed in touch with many

0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:24.440
<v Speaker 2>of them. For some a friend or family member was

0:28:24.480 --> 0:28:26.000
<v Speaker 2>able to send the money and they made it to

0:28:26.040 --> 0:28:28.840
<v Speaker 2>Costaly on the bus. From there, they crossed quickly into

0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:31.560
<v Speaker 2>Nicaragua and Guatemala before arriving in.

0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:33.879
<v Speaker 3>The Mexican border city of Tapachula in the state of.

0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:36.760
<v Speaker 2>Chiapas and ironically not so very far from whether the

0:28:36.840 --> 0:28:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Zapatistas made their revolution thirty years ago. Once they crossed

0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:43.400
<v Speaker 2>the southern border of Mexico, migrants can begin their application

0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:45.800
<v Speaker 2>for asylum using the CBP one app that we've talked

0:28:45.800 --> 0:28:48.520
<v Speaker 2>about so much on the show before. They can use

0:28:48.520 --> 0:28:51.440
<v Speaker 2>it in Tabasco and Chiapas, the southern border states, and

0:28:51.480 --> 0:28:54.560
<v Speaker 2>then once again when they're north of Mexico City. To

0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:57.360
<v Speaker 2>recap very briefly, the app is terrible and almost every way,

0:28:57.440 --> 0:29:01.400
<v Speaker 2>including its inability to recognize blackfaces. It's limited functionality on

0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:04.040
<v Speaker 2>Android phones, which is a vast majority of devices used

0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:07.360
<v Speaker 2>by migrants. It's constant crashing, an eight to nine month

0:29:07.440 --> 0:29:10.800
<v Speaker 2>wait time for Sylum appointments. His Erico, explaining some of

0:29:10.840 --> 0:29:11.520
<v Speaker 2>those problems.

0:29:11.800 --> 0:29:15.720
<v Speaker 5>You have to have a relatively new smartphone, you have

0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:19.080
<v Speaker 5>to have an address, all the people you're traveling with

0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:21.760
<v Speaker 5>have to be with you right, and you have to

0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:26.280
<v Speaker 5>first get through the initial kind of registration phase, which

0:29:26.280 --> 0:29:27.080
<v Speaker 5>doesn't always work.

0:29:27.160 --> 0:29:28.560
<v Speaker 6>The program is very glitchy.

0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:33.000
<v Speaker 5>You have to take a live photo, and you have

0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:35.800
<v Speaker 5>to wait essentially, so you know, it's kind of random too.

0:29:35.840 --> 0:29:38.200
<v Speaker 5>Some people will get an appointment within three months, but

0:29:38.200 --> 0:29:40.440
<v Speaker 5>I would say most people are waiting nine to twelve

0:29:40.640 --> 0:29:43.360
<v Speaker 5>At this point. You don't have any legal status in

0:29:43.400 --> 0:29:46.360
<v Speaker 5>Mexico while you're waiting, unless you can apply for some

0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:48.800
<v Speaker 5>other status in Mexico independently.

0:29:49.680 --> 0:29:52.040
<v Speaker 2>That it is yet very poorly designed. It's also a

0:29:52.040 --> 0:29:53.840
<v Speaker 2>de facto a metering system on asylum.

0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:58.320
<v Speaker 5>Erico explaining that we've been litigating against the use of

0:29:58.400 --> 0:30:01.360
<v Speaker 5>CBP one for a few years now. My organization out

0:30:01.360 --> 0:30:04.600
<v Speaker 5>at the level and Haitian ViRGE Alliance, and the reason

0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:09.080
<v Speaker 5>why we are fighting against the required use of CBP

0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:13.800
<v Speaker 5>one is first because it is an illegal metering system.

0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:17.239
<v Speaker 5>So we've already litigated the fact that there is no

0:30:17.520 --> 0:30:20.720
<v Speaker 5>number limit on the amount of individuals who can seek

0:30:20.720 --> 0:30:23.840
<v Speaker 5>asylum at the US Mexico border, and Customs and Border

0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:26.760
<v Speaker 5>Protection legally does not have the right to turn people away,

0:30:27.600 --> 0:30:32.000
<v Speaker 5>and CBP one essentially allows them to do that. You know,

0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:35.880
<v Speaker 5>there were physical metering lists at ports of entry before

0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:40.160
<v Speaker 5>CBP one was implemented as essentially the only way to

0:30:40.200 --> 0:30:43.040
<v Speaker 5>access the US asylum system at ports of entry, and

0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:46.240
<v Speaker 5>now it's a digital metering list and it's very limited.

0:30:46.840 --> 0:30:49.600
<v Speaker 2>Recently, the Department of Homeland Security lost a court case

0:30:49.640 --> 0:30:52.479
<v Speaker 2>which forced them to release records in there with some

0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:55.440
<v Speaker 2>of the app plugs and data regarding CBP one. I'm

0:30:55.440 --> 0:30:57.960
<v Speaker 2>still in the phase of coming through that asking my friends,

0:30:58.000 --> 0:31:00.600
<v Speaker 2>you know more about technologies than I do. Eplain exactly

0:31:00.680 --> 0:31:03.400
<v Speaker 2>what the limitations with the app are, but it doesn't

0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:06.720
<v Speaker 2>really matter. DHS is well aware of the app's flaws,

0:31:06.840 --> 0:31:08.600
<v Speaker 2>and it doesn't really seem to see the most flaws

0:31:08.640 --> 0:31:10.720
<v Speaker 2>at all. The goal of the app is to make

0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:14.360
<v Speaker 2>it harder for people, even those with very legitimate asylum claims,

0:31:14.400 --> 0:31:17.720
<v Speaker 2>to obtain asylum in the USA. As we heard yesterday.

0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:21.440
<v Speaker 2>The CHNV program is no better a recently Reddit thread

0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:23.880
<v Speaker 2>of applicants who've been waiting nearly two years. What I

0:31:23.920 --> 0:31:26.720
<v Speaker 2>didn't mention yesterday is a parallel program for another group

0:31:26.760 --> 0:31:28.680
<v Speaker 2>of migrants, which I'll let Erica explain.

0:31:28.920 --> 0:31:31.680
<v Speaker 6>I want to mention the fact that there is a

0:31:31.680 --> 0:31:32.560
<v Speaker 6>cap right.

0:31:32.680 --> 0:31:35.160
<v Speaker 5>I think it's thirty thousand a month or something like

0:31:35.200 --> 0:31:37.080
<v Speaker 5>that for those four countries.

0:31:37.120 --> 0:31:38.600
<v Speaker 6>But it's almost identical to.

0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:43.280
<v Speaker 5>The Ukrainian United for a Ukraine program, which doesn't have

0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:46.400
<v Speaker 5>a cap right, so there's no limit to how many

0:31:46.480 --> 0:31:50.320
<v Speaker 5>Ukrainians can get the same benefit. And they are renewing

0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:53.360
<v Speaker 5>the humanitarian prole for Ukrainians, which I believe was just

0:31:53.400 --> 0:31:56.000
<v Speaker 5>announced almost within weeks of them announcing that they're not

0:31:56.640 --> 0:32:00.560
<v Speaker 5>renewing for the other four countries. So it's really a

0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:06.040
<v Speaker 5>very stark demonstration of how the US immigration system, even

0:32:06.080 --> 0:32:09.720
<v Speaker 5>when it's a relatively meter or benefit, is based on race,

0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:12.720
<v Speaker 5>is based on which country you're from.

0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:15.600
<v Speaker 2>What this means is that in practice, the migrants I

0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:18.959
<v Speaker 2>spoke to face a long and dangerous way in Mexico

0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:22.480
<v Speaker 2>while others skip ahead. I've got nothing against the Ukrainians,

0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:24.920
<v Speaker 2>and I don't think many of them do either. I

0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:28.240
<v Speaker 2>tried to go to Ukraine and report, but the avisas

0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:30.040
<v Speaker 2>ended up taking so long that I missed the flights

0:32:30.040 --> 0:32:33.400
<v Speaker 2>that I'd booked. I have, however, a serious problem with

0:32:33.440 --> 0:32:36.520
<v Speaker 2>a Biden administration which left people who fought alongside its

0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:39.640
<v Speaker 2>own US troops to die in Afghanistan and turned away

0:32:39.680 --> 0:32:42.440
<v Speaker 2>migrants small over the world, but then opened its arms

0:32:42.440 --> 0:32:44.920
<v Speaker 2>to a country that just happened to have the majority

0:32:44.920 --> 0:32:47.120
<v Speaker 2>of its citizens be the same race as the president.

0:32:47.720 --> 0:32:50.920
<v Speaker 2>It's cruel and it's wrong, and it's barely ever even

0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:54.480
<v Speaker 2>mentioned in national media coverage. But that's not fortunate enough

0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:57.200
<v Speaker 2>to be Ukrainian. Here's what waiting in Mexico looks like.

0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:02.920
<v Speaker 5>The incidence of crime director at migrants is horrifyingly high.

0:33:04.000 --> 0:33:07.800
<v Speaker 5>We had done an electronic survey a few years ago,

0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:10.480
<v Speaker 5>and this was during Title forty two, when people were

0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:13.880
<v Speaker 5>just being expelled to Mexico, and if I remember correctly,

0:33:14.600 --> 0:33:17.000
<v Speaker 5>it was like around twenty five to thirty percent of

0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:20.280
<v Speaker 5>people had been either raped.

0:33:20.120 --> 0:33:23.920
<v Speaker 6>Sex traffic assaulted, kidnapped. I mean, the list goes on

0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:24.320
<v Speaker 6>and on.

0:33:25.080 --> 0:33:27.600
<v Speaker 5>We've seen a lot of people lose their lives just

0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:31.360
<v Speaker 5>due to violence and the kidnapping rates are through the roof.

0:33:32.040 --> 0:33:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Almost everyone you've heard from in this series is now

0:33:34.440 --> 0:33:38.120
<v Speaker 2>stuck in Mexico. Some of them have been kidnapped, paid,

0:33:38.200 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 2>ransomed and released. Some of them have been sexually assaulted.

0:33:41.840 --> 0:33:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Many of them have been robbed. Some of them have,

0:33:44.680 --> 0:33:47.160
<v Speaker 2>after surviving one of the most deadly land migration routes

0:33:47.160 --> 0:33:49.959
<v Speaker 2>on Earth, been killed while waiting in Mexico for an

0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:52.840
<v Speaker 2>app to stop crashing on their phones. Over a week

0:33:52.880 --> 0:33:55.320
<v Speaker 2>since I got home, I've seen them go gradually more

0:33:55.360 --> 0:33:58.520
<v Speaker 2>desperate and afraid just to get to Mexico. Many of

0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:01.920
<v Speaker 2>them have spent several thousand dollars. Once they're in Tapatula,

0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:04.680
<v Speaker 2>they faced with the astronomical costs for the trip north,

0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:08.359
<v Speaker 2>often several thousand dollars more, and many of them, their

0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:11.959
<v Speaker 2>phones exhausted, have slept on the streets. Those didn't speak

0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:15.080
<v Speaker 2>Spanish struggle to find refuge. Those who did wanted to

0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:17.759
<v Speaker 2>move quickly north, but struggle to find the money here.

0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:20.520
<v Speaker 2>The Iranian migrants you heard earlier in the series explaining

0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:22.480
<v Speaker 2>what they'd already heard about CBP one.

0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:26.799
<v Speaker 8>It's so tough because the some polices in their way,

0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:32.800
<v Speaker 8>they are two to our money that we came from Iran.

0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:37.319
<v Speaker 8>It was so difficult for us, and the resumed a way.

0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:41.960
<v Speaker 8>So Mexico, Mexico is so difficult for us, and something

0:34:42.120 --> 0:34:47.160
<v Speaker 8>is CBP one is not working for our for us,

0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:52.239
<v Speaker 8>for Iranian people, Yeah, I hope the people who are

0:34:52.280 --> 0:34:57.279
<v Speaker 8>in Mexico City for about three months, for three.

0:34:57.000 --> 0:34:59.000
<v Speaker 4>Months, yeah, CPP wanted.

0:34:59.160 --> 0:34:59.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:34:59.520 --> 0:35:05.080
<v Speaker 8>Because of that, Iranian people go through the wall and yeah, yeah,

0:35:05.280 --> 0:35:09.239
<v Speaker 8>it's it's not our choice. We have to do this.

0:35:10.040 --> 0:35:12.359
<v Speaker 8>We don't want them, but it's we have to do this.

0:35:12.520 --> 0:35:13.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's good to explain that.

0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:16.800
<v Speaker 2>According to a study conducted at the University of Texas,

0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:18.960
<v Speaker 2>wait times are as high as eight or nine months

0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:21.479
<v Speaker 2>on average now Mexico and out. It's on the thirty

0:35:21.480 --> 0:35:23.800
<v Speaker 2>first of August that it will provide security and food

0:35:23.840 --> 0:35:26.399
<v Speaker 2>for migrants who have an appointment to travel north from

0:35:26.400 --> 0:35:28.000
<v Speaker 2>the south of the country to the place where they

0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:31.120
<v Speaker 2>have a CVP one appointment. Margarets absolutely have been robbed

0:35:31.200 --> 0:35:33.439
<v Speaker 2>or kidnapped on their way to their appointment and missed

0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:35.840
<v Speaker 2>it as a result, But they're just as honorable in

0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:37.520
<v Speaker 2>the eight or nine months that they have to wait

0:35:37.560 --> 0:35:40.560
<v Speaker 2>for one. Margarets and Tapajula are at a very high

0:35:40.680 --> 0:35:43.520
<v Speaker 2>risk for kidnapping and are often held until their families

0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:47.600
<v Speaker 2>pay ransoms. But without money or an appointment, they have

0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:50.319
<v Speaker 2>little means of leaving the city. Some choose to travel

0:35:50.320 --> 0:35:52.200
<v Speaker 2>a little further north and then hop on a freight

0:35:52.239 --> 0:35:56.720
<v Speaker 2>train known as Labestia the Beast, an extraordinarily risky endeavor

0:35:56.800 --> 0:35:58.440
<v Speaker 2>that several of the people I spoke to for this

0:35:58.520 --> 0:36:01.440
<v Speaker 2>series have undertaken. The only place to ride on these

0:36:01.480 --> 0:36:04.920
<v Speaker 2>trains is on top of carriages, exposing migrants to freezing

0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:08.080
<v Speaker 2>temperatures in the desert night. Even on the train, they're

0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:11.919
<v Speaker 2>not safe from kidnapping. Like many migrants, the Iranian group

0:36:11.960 --> 0:36:14.960
<v Speaker 2>were well informed about domestic politics in the US, and

0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:17.120
<v Speaker 2>they said that when they made their journey north, they

0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:19.120
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be sure to avoid the states where local

0:36:19.200 --> 0:36:21.600
<v Speaker 2>law enforcement was likely to turn them over for deportation.

0:36:22.800 --> 0:36:25.520
<v Speaker 2>In reality, that could be any of the states, but

0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:27.319
<v Speaker 2>they're probably right that their life would be a little

0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:28.360
<v Speaker 2>easier on the West Coast.

0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:33.840
<v Speaker 8>I heard it's so difficult and about three months, four months,

0:36:33.840 --> 0:36:36.840
<v Speaker 8>more than seven months, they will arrest us in the US.

0:36:37.280 --> 0:36:42.640
<v Speaker 8>I heard in Mississippi it takes us in Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:36:42.840 --> 0:36:46.719
<v Speaker 8>I think that the California is a little little, little.

0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:52.000
<v Speaker 10>Yeah earlier, Our money is very excuse me, shds money

0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:55.719
<v Speaker 10>in the world, and we have to pay a lot

0:36:55.760 --> 0:37:01.440
<v Speaker 10>of money for this way because.

0:37:00.160 --> 0:37:05.800
<v Speaker 8>How one yeah, one dollar is sixteen thousand.

0:37:08.000 --> 0:37:10.720
<v Speaker 2>Some of course, which use to cross the border between

0:37:10.760 --> 0:37:13.279
<v Speaker 2>ports of entry as they become desperate to see their

0:37:13.320 --> 0:37:17.840
<v Speaker 2>families or afraid of remaining in Mexico. Since President Biden's

0:37:17.880 --> 0:37:21.240
<v Speaker 2>executive audio earlier this summer, doing this can result expedited

0:37:21.280 --> 0:37:25.799
<v Speaker 2>removal proceedings, and effectively, Biden's new ruling denies asylum by

0:37:25.840 --> 0:37:28.719
<v Speaker 2>default to anyone crossing the border when daily crossings sur

0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:32.080
<v Speaker 2>passed twenty five hundred. In fact, this is the continuation

0:37:32.160 --> 0:37:34.840
<v Speaker 2>of extremely punitive and cruel politics that have been in

0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:37.600
<v Speaker 2>place since he was finally forced to stop using Title

0:37:37.640 --> 0:37:39.919
<v Speaker 2>forty two, which, if you're not aware, is a public

0:37:39.960 --> 0:37:42.799
<v Speaker 2>health law used by the Trump administration and embraced by

0:37:42.800 --> 0:37:45.840
<v Speaker 2>the Biden administration as an asylum law. It has already

0:37:45.880 --> 0:37:48.520
<v Speaker 2>resulted in the deportations of people back to places where

0:37:48.520 --> 0:37:51.799
<v Speaker 2>they have extremely credible fears of harm and created a

0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:54.320
<v Speaker 2>system whereby migrants have no idea how they will be

0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:57.239
<v Speaker 2>treated on any given day. Again, it's play into the

0:37:57.239 --> 0:37:59.239
<v Speaker 2>hands of anyone seeking to smoke or migrants into the

0:37:59.239 --> 0:38:02.719
<v Speaker 2>country and detective well also harming innocent people coming to

0:38:02.760 --> 0:38:05.760
<v Speaker 2>this country to US for protection. He's Erica's short history

0:38:05.760 --> 0:38:07.759
<v Speaker 2>of Biden's asylent policy since last year.

0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:12.359
<v Speaker 5>So when the Biden administration lifted Title forty two, they

0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:16.200
<v Speaker 5>essentially imposed what I call a transit then.

0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:18.960
<v Speaker 6>So there's a couple of components to it.

0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:22.960
<v Speaker 5>One is, if you do not enter the United States

0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:25.560
<v Speaker 5>out of port of entry with a CDP one appointment,

0:38:26.280 --> 0:38:30.239
<v Speaker 5>you are presumed ineligible for asylum unless you fall under

0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:34.320
<v Speaker 5>a few narrow exceptions which are not consistently applied. So

0:38:34.360 --> 0:38:37.919
<v Speaker 5>the exceptions are things like you were having a medical emergency,

0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:40.800
<v Speaker 5>you were running for your life, you know, you couldn't

0:38:40.840 --> 0:38:44.120
<v Speaker 5>access the app for some reason. But in practice those

0:38:44.320 --> 0:38:49.120
<v Speaker 5>exceptions are almost never applied at ports. There's been a

0:38:49.200 --> 0:38:53.800
<v Speaker 5>few kind of alternative programs run by shelters or local

0:38:53.840 --> 0:38:58.719
<v Speaker 5>governments where people with extreme medical vulnerabilities, for example, can

0:38:58.760 --> 0:39:01.319
<v Speaker 5>be let in without an appointment, but we don't know

0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:05.359
<v Speaker 5>whether the ban applies to them once they enter without

0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:09.480
<v Speaker 5>that appointment, right, So it's like I said, inconsistently applied exceptions.

0:39:09.680 --> 0:39:12.560
<v Speaker 5>If you enter between a port of entry, you're presumed

0:39:12.560 --> 0:39:16.880
<v Speaker 5>and eligible for asylum again unless you meet some narrow exceptions.

0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:18.760
<v Speaker 6>And what that means is you can still.

0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:21.080
<v Speaker 5>Apply for other types of protection in the United States.

0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:25.879
<v Speaker 5>So there's two principal types of protection. One it's called

0:39:25.920 --> 0:39:29.239
<v Speaker 5>withholding a removal, which is like asylum but with a

0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:32.480
<v Speaker 5>higher standard. And then the other is Convention against Torture,

0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:35.680
<v Speaker 5>which you just have to prove it's more likely than

0:39:35.680 --> 0:39:38.239
<v Speaker 5>not that your own government will torture you, which is

0:39:38.360 --> 0:39:41.600
<v Speaker 5>more extreme than persecution. But is it necessarily based on

0:39:41.640 --> 0:39:44.240
<v Speaker 5>a protected ground, So the torture gived you for any reason,

0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:48.200
<v Speaker 5>but it's a high hurdle. But the most important thing

0:39:48.480 --> 0:39:51.640
<v Speaker 5>is those two types of protection are not pased to

0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:54.600
<v Speaker 5>citizenship and they do not allow you to petition for

0:39:54.640 --> 0:39:57.759
<v Speaker 5>your family. So, for example, if you get asylum in

0:39:57.840 --> 0:39:59.920
<v Speaker 5>the US and then you want to ask for your

0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:02.160
<v Speaker 5>life and children to join you, there is an avenue

0:40:02.200 --> 0:40:05.759
<v Speaker 5>for that, and all of you can eventually become citizens.

0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:09.560
<v Speaker 5>Withholding a removal and Convention against Torture, you basically get

0:40:09.560 --> 0:40:12.840
<v Speaker 5>a work from it. If conditions in your country change,

0:40:13.000 --> 0:40:15.400
<v Speaker 5>they can deport you and you can never leave the

0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:17.880
<v Speaker 5>United States, and you can never reunify with your family,

0:40:18.000 --> 0:40:19.400
<v Speaker 5>and you could never become a citizen.

0:40:20.280 --> 0:40:23.600
<v Speaker 2>This won't deter people. I speak to people every day

0:40:23.640 --> 0:40:26.920
<v Speaker 2>who cross the Daddy in We're kidnapped, robbed, and sometimes

0:40:27.000 --> 0:40:29.680
<v Speaker 2>raped on their way here. They're going through all of

0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:32.160
<v Speaker 2>that because we refuse to give people a dignified or

0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:34.640
<v Speaker 2>safe way to come here. They know it's a risk,

0:40:34.880 --> 0:40:37.040
<v Speaker 2>and they continue to come because they think it's the

0:40:37.120 --> 0:40:40.360
<v Speaker 2>only option. His powers from Cameroon and explaining.

0:40:39.920 --> 0:40:43.800
<v Speaker 6>That it's deadly, how will I to you it's fifty

0:40:43.880 --> 0:40:46.320
<v Speaker 6>fifty alive on date, honestly speakause.

0:40:46.640 --> 0:40:49.239
<v Speaker 4>But we had to take their rigs because I think

0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:49.520
<v Speaker 4>that was the.

0:40:49.520 --> 0:40:50.640
<v Speaker 10>Only all from that we had.

0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:55.959
<v Speaker 2>If you can't imagine taking those risks, it's likely because

0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:57.560
<v Speaker 2>you can't imagine the things these people are.

0:40:57.560 --> 0:40:58.440
<v Speaker 3>Leaving behind either.

0:40:59.360 --> 0:41:01.600
<v Speaker 2>As a conflict reporter, I've been able to see a

0:41:01.640 --> 0:41:07.000
<v Speaker 2>small amount of what they're fleeing, war, death, poverty, state violence.

0:41:07.680 --> 0:41:09.399
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if i'd be brave or strong enough

0:41:09.400 --> 0:41:10.960
<v Speaker 2>to do the same, but I have a lot of

0:41:11.040 --> 0:41:14.520
<v Speaker 2>respect for people who can. Tomorrow we're going to talk

0:41:14.560 --> 0:41:16.640
<v Speaker 2>about the people who help them along the way and

0:41:16.680 --> 0:41:19.120
<v Speaker 2>what you can do to support them when the state works.

0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:25.560
<v Speaker 11>It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

0:41:25.760 --> 0:41:28.800
<v Speaker 11>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:31.440
<v Speaker 11>cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

0:41:31.480 --> 0:41:35.560
<v Speaker 11>iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

0:41:35.880 --> 0:41:37.799
<v Speaker 11>You can now find sources for it could Happen Here

0:41:37.800 --> 0:41:40.800
<v Speaker 11>listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.