1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Also media. 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 2: It's me James, and before we listen to this episode today, 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 2: I just did want to make you aware that I 4 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 2: conducted these interviews in French and Spanish, mostly Spanish, and 5 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 2: then transcribed and translated them. So what you're hearing is 6 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 2: a translated interview that's being edited for brevity and content. 7 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 3: I hope you enjoyed the episode. 8 00:00:49,760 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 2: Ramato. Some of you recognize the audio that we opened 9 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: this show with, and then if you won't, it's a 10 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: sample from the fourth Declaration of the Lacandon Jungle that 11 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 2: Manuchow used to open his shows with. It's a piece 12 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 2: of music that's very emotive for me. Obviously, I'm a 13 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: white leftist guy in my thirties who learned Spanish and 14 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 2: decided to live in Barcelona. So I have a story 15 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: about running into Manuchow once where he was busking, but 16 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 2: that's not what I want to share today. Because I'm 17 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: technology challenged, I can't seem to get my phone to 18 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 2: download songs, but I've managed to download the same Manuchow playlist, 19 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 2: and I ripped off a rewriteable CD when I was 20 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 2: in high school and put it on the various headphones 21 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: and garment. Watch it that I've had of the last 22 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: two decades or so. When I'm away for work, I 23 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: like to run whenever I can. Obviously, I wasn't just 24 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: going to go for a jog straight into the Darien Gap. 25 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: But once we were out of Bajajiqito, it gave me 26 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: some time to run and think and process the things 27 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: that I've seen. And while I do that, I listen 28 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 2: to the same does and al So MP three files. 29 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 2: I was listening to this song one day after I 30 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: got back from LaaS Blancas as I sweated my way 31 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 2: up ahead in the rainforest, hoping to see a sloth. 32 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: I didn't see a sloth, but it seemed like an 33 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: appropriate soundtrack. Manucho himself as a child of refugees from 34 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: Francoist Spain. He sings in French and Spanish, while off 35 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 2: and Galician and Portuguese, among other languages, often several of 36 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: them in the same song, the product of growing up 37 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 2: among other migrants of diverse backgrounds. I like the way 38 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 2: he plays with language because it reminds me of the 39 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 2: way I so often speak to my friends Spanglish, for example, 40 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 2: or Franglais. It's the way people talk in border regions 41 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: and refugee camps, languages that don't have the support of 42 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: a state or the academy, but nonetheless convey so much 43 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 2: meaning for so many people. That song in particular reminds 44 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: me of my first time reading about Zapatismo in a 45 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: tiny anarchist cafe in the West Midlands. I remember being struck, 46 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: as a kid from Europe who would frequently drive to 47 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: France or Belgium to race bikes and buy cheap beer, 48 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: that the USA still maintained a fortified border with Mexico. 49 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: People couldn't travel freely, but money could. It was its 50 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: realization and the writings in particular Socomante Marcos, along with 51 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: my talks in Spain to old anarchists, that encouraged me 52 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: to learn Spanish, which I pursued by spending months in 53 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: Spain and Venezuela and learning thanks to the patient to 54 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 2: the people around me. It was a new anarchism which 55 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 2: came from the periphery, not only a liberal corps, which 56 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: gave me my first serious politics. I traveled to Venezuela 57 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: to understand the revolution there. I did a PhD to 58 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: try and understand the revolution in Spain. It's all very 59 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: well understanding things, but I think it's much more important 60 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: to do things, and I tried to practice mutual aid 61 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 2: as much as I can. Since I got back from 62 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: the daddy En, I've loaded up a heavy backpack and 63 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: carried water into the desert and spent hours trying to 64 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: connect the friends I made in the jungle with services 65 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 2: along the way. In the face of so much cruelty, 66 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: it feels it's good to be doing something to help 67 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: a carrying the water is away. I can make a 68 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 2: material difference in a terrible situation. But in all my 69 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: time reporting, I've really never felt as disempowered and helpless 70 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 2: as I did in Last Blancas. Here at the first 71 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 2: official migrant reception center after Daddi Enne. The Panamanian government 72 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: registers migrants NGOs, offer a few services, and the US 73 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 2: funded process of deportation for migrants from Colombia, Cuba, Venezuela 74 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 2: and India begins. Some of those sent to India might 75 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 2: well be Nepalese who often travel on fake Indian passports. 76 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 2: The Siddle cluster of cheap tents, shipping container offices, un shelters, 77 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 2: and barbed wire offences is where the rubber meets a 78 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: road for the USA's border and migration policy, and it's 79 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: heartbreaking to witness as migrants were called up to the 80 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 2: security office to begin the deportation process. I tried to 81 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: narrate the scene into my voice recorder, but I struggled, 82 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: in part because their family members asked me questions, hoping 83 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: I can help. 84 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, planks on a side. 85 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: But in a larger part this was also difficult because 86 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: I couldn't help, and I deeply wanted to. The best 87 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 2: I could offer was an arm around someone's shoulder, and 88 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: I promise to email anyone who I could think of 89 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: and ask what was going on. 90 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 4: This guy's just sobbing. 91 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 5: Ah. 92 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really tough. Some people's parents, some people's partners. 93 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 6: And. 94 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 2: I'll explain exactly what was happening in a moment, But 95 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: first I want to explain how I got here. On 96 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: the day we left Maragante, we set off at the 97 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: same time some migrants who are making their own journey 98 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: to last Blankets is carrying only myself and my fixed 99 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 2: daddy and Aguero, so we're moving a lot faster than 100 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 2: the boats full of migrants on the way north. We 101 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: passed them, they smiled and waves we rode by. Many 102 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 2: of them had met me the day before. All of 103 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: them were ecstatic to have survived the daddy en and 104 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: be heading north. You know, it's a pretty busy stretch 105 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: river that's probably three or four Piagua was full of migrants. 106 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 4: Hello, they're kids shogging at me. 107 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: Going to taught them some English words yesterday and they're 108 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 2: shouting them back to me today. 109 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 4: Which is nice. We got it family from Panama. They 110 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 4: might be Indio people are something. 111 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: They're littleville shocked to the whole scene. Here we are 112 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 2: passing another bit of Agua. Now they're all waving in 113 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 2: the it's got to be uncomfortable pack that don't see 114 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 2: into a bi Agua one, two, three, four or five, six, seven, 115 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: eighty nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirty sixteen people. 116 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 117 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: Once they boath arrived, they disembark in Last Blancas. The 118 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: next day I was there to meet them. We're just 119 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 2: walking into Las Blancas. It's hectic here, so it's a 120 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: new shop here, and outside the shop they've made like 121 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 2: a line of outlets to charge people. It's a dollar 122 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 2: an hour to charge your telephone. As we go in, 123 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: there are a row of like kind of sheds which 124 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: represent shops. And then further in every ngo has its 125 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: own little kind of shed. They're all covered in tarps. 126 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 2: They're like canvas and tarp tents. Actually here so see 127 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: UNISEEF I see oh I am. 128 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, they have that sort of little tent office here. 129 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 4: I guess. 130 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 2: See here as for example, has route information, psychological supports. 131 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 4: They've spaced for women. 132 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: WONISEF has some workshops for children. And then in the hours, 133 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: I guess, nice little chairs in there. 134 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 4: Yeah see. Then you can't take photographs in there, which 135 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 4: is good. Yeah. 136 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: And then it's just a crowd of people coming out. 137 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 2: And there's also Mormon, little little Mormon situation. 138 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 4: See me. 139 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 2: I guess thee o I am are supported by Church 140 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 2: of Jesus Christ on that today Saints and the. 141 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 4: Red Cross has got a shipping container. 142 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 2: I've been hoping last Black Gusts would be a better 143 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 2: scene than Bajugito, with more organized sleeping arrangements and hopefully 144 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: basic necessities like clean water, food and Wi Fi provided 145 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: by their numerous NGOs who work there. But if any 146 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 2: think it was worse in Bajo Jugito. In Bajuquito, migrants 147 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: were exhausted but also ecstatic to be at the jungle. 148 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: They you they'll be moving forward the next day, and 149 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: for a few bucks they can get anythink they needed 150 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: in the village. The locals told me that if kids 151 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 2: didn't have their money to eat, they fed them for free. 152 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 3: I didn't see this, but nobody's seen. 153 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 2: That they're having a very hard time in any of 154 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 2: the dayta viceded the village, at least not for financial reasons. 155 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 2: Maggots can get as far as Bajo Jiguito on a 156 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 2: few hundred dollars in their t nasty They pay Columbian 157 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 2: guides a few hundred bucks to bring them across the 158 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 2: ocean from Necopie and to walk them from the border, 159 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 2: and they parried and barra Perraguero's twenty five bucks for 160 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 2: the ride up the river. But once they get to 161 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: last Blankerts. For a good number of migrants, their journey 162 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 2: grinds to a halt. Many of them told me they've 163 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 2: been stuck in the camp for weeks or even months 164 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 2: because they couldn't get that sixty dollars that they needed 165 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 2: to pay for their travel north. There's no Western Union 166 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: in the camp, and the only way to transfer money 167 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: is very local intermediary who charges between twenty and twenty 168 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 2: five percent of the sum being transferred as a fee. 169 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: In the morning, migrants arrive on their paraguas, just as 170 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 2: we did. I dropped down the boat ramp when I 171 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:01,719 Speaker 2: saw them to help with their bags, and I'll go 172 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: about their journey from there. They formed two lines, one 173 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 2: for men and one for women and children. They have 174 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 2: their bag search and their passport checked. They're given a 175 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: welcome kit for the Red Cross with some basic necessities 176 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 2: toilet paper, a toothbrush, some soap, stuff like that, or 177 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: some of them get a kid. When the kids ran out, 178 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: it was long before the line of people did. By 179 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: the time the men were finished, they were given a 180 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 2: little more than a shrug and good wishes better Red 181 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 2: Cross volunteers and allowed to head off into the camp. 182 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 2: Within the camp, there are a few rows of small 183 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 2: casitas that are allocated to un accompanied children and families. 184 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: They're little more than four walls in a roof, but 185 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: they offer a bit of privacy for most migrants, though 186 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 2: there isn't space and they have to search for a 187 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: spot of empty ground in the crowded camp where they 188 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 2: can pitch. The same tents. They bought a necko Keley. 189 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 2: The WiFi, which a Red Cross usually provides, wasn't working 190 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: when I arrived, so I had to let people hot 191 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: spot off my phone all day. At least the promised 192 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: food really was free, but the migrant told me it 193 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 2: was far from good. Still, this is supposed to be 194 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 2: a temporary camp. People register here, get any medical attention 195 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: they need, and then move forward to Costa Rica. That's 196 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 2: the theory anyway. In practice, if you can't get the 197 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: sixty bucks, you need to move forward, or someone stole 198 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 2: it from me in the jungle, or you are forced 199 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 2: to walk to the camp because you didn't have twenty 200 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 2: five bucks for the boat and then someone rubbed you. 201 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 2: Then you're stuck. 202 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 7: We have been here a month. You have people who've 203 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 7: been here a month and a half. I've been twenty 204 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 7: seven days here. Well, I thank god because we have 205 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 7: three meals a day, we have water, but it still 206 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 7: hurts the girls. The food and water always make me 207 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 7: sick with diarrhea. It bothers me. I vomit and the 208 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 7: heat is so desperate. But we have to hold on 209 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 7: because even though we don't have the resources, like we 210 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 7: don't have enough to pay for a ticket. We have 211 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 7: to hold on here a little longer. We don't have 212 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 7: any family members can give us support. 213 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 3: Either. 214 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 2: What's keeping the migrants here is money, or rather a 215 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 2: lack of it. They need sixty bucks to leave. Buses 216 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 2: used to take five free passengers per bus, but under 217 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 2: Panama's new regime it seems like they don't. Instead, migrants 218 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 2: just gradually a mass in growing number of tents that 219 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 2: populate the grassy areas of LaaS blankets. They might try 220 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: and do some informal work. I saw one guy who 221 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 2: was cutting hair for a dollar a time, but I 222 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 2: couldn't really get a satisfactory response to what they're expected 223 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: to do. If they don't have the money and can't 224 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: get someone to send us seventy five dollars, they'd need 225 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 2: to cover their travel costs and the twenty five percent transfer. 226 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 7: Feel if you're short ten dollars, they don't put you 227 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 7: on the bus or anything. So things are terrible here. 228 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 7: There should at least be support for migrants who at 229 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 7: least come with few resources. They don't have money or anything. 230 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 7: They can search your bag so they can see that 231 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 7: you're not lying that you don't have money, because nobody 232 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 7: wants to be stuck here. You have to move forward, 233 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 7: because nobody wants to be stuck here in Panama. The 234 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 7: idea is to move forward to get further ahead. We 235 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 7: brought our children to look for a future, not to 236 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 7: be locked up here in Panama, as if we've been imprisoned. 237 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 2: The group even tried to leave on foot, hoping to 238 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: begin walking north, and so it's for better future and 239 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: a way to make money on their way. But they 240 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: were caught, they say, and returned to the camera. 241 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 7: And they beat me hard. I gave myself up because 242 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 7: they had caught her, a grandmother with my other daughter. 243 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 7: I returned myself voluntarily, and they beat me up anyway. 244 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 7: And from there we've lost the desire to walk back there. 245 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 7: What can we do rights? They don't care about them. 246 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 7: We are human beings, but we don't have rights here 247 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 7: in Panama. 248 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 2: If they do have the money, Margarets could take a 249 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 2: bus to the Costa Rican border. When the busts first arrived, 250 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 2: I tried to describe the scene as migrants rushed to 251 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 2: buy food, not only for this journey, but also for 252 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: their journey through Costallika, where food and other basics are 253 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: much more expensive. I'm here in La Lablancas when the 254 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 2: first buses have arrived. 255 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 4: It's about noon. 256 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 2: The first bus is going to be followed people who 257 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: had been waiting in line for hours already, so they're 258 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 2: kind of lining up by the bus. 259 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 4: And then. 260 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: The next bus is people seem to be kind of 261 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 2: rushing to get to them. They're rushing to my food. 262 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 2: I can just see this guy has like an entire 263 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 2: carrier bag full of pink Wave for biscuits and coke bottles, 264 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 2: that that's going to be his food for the next 265 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: eleven hours. 266 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 4: I guess other guys. 267 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 2: Will see with bags of bread, rolls and stuff, and 268 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 2: they're the first people. 269 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 4: Are getting on the bus. 270 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 2: Now, these buses aren't entirely safe. In twenty twenty three, 271 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 2: forty two people died in a bus crash. This year, 272 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 2: seventeen were innted in a crash in August. Now, migration 273 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: offices ride in each bus with the migrants to check 274 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 2: on safety protocols and make sure they don't get off 275 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 2: anywhere else in the country, just like everywhere else on 276 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 2: their journey. 277 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 3: People make money off the migrants. 278 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: In Las Blancats, a bus costs sixty dollars ahead and 279 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: has fifty five passages three thousand, three hundred dollars a bus. 280 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 3: More than a dozen buses. 281 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 2: Leave every day, and even half of a thousand or 282 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 2: so people who arrived us a transfer service to get 283 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: their bus fare. That's seven five hundred dollars in transfer 284 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 2: fees alone. Of course, not everyone in the community is 285 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 2: making thousands of dollars off the migrants. I interviewed local 286 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 2: shopkeeper who still sits just outside the camp gates, and 287 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 2: I asked him to explain his stock, which included the 288 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: oddly popular I backed the blue Thin blue. 289 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 3: Lion T shirt. So I'd seen several people across the 290 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 3: daddy and gap. 291 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 8: In Okay, Mayamo your only fucking money. 292 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 2: I asked him what was the most common shopping list 293 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 2: for migrants. 294 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 8: See Cassie lay. 295 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 9: Yes, almost all of them coming by sets for ten, fifteen, 296 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 9: twenty dollars. It depends there are many who don't have them. 297 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 9: I have children's sets for five dollars. I have sets 298 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 9: for five dollars that are pants and sweaters, which is 299 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 9: what they're looking for the most. Those that are socks 300 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 9: without underwear, backpacks for fifteen dollars. Because the backpack is 301 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 9: so worn out and they need it so much that 302 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 9: it carries their belongings. Look, it's not really everyone who 303 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 9: can buy. There are certain people who buy, of course, 304 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 9: if everyone bought, but there are very few can buy 305 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 9: something to leave here. Almost seventy percent leave dirty because 306 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 9: they don't have anywhere to get money, and the little 307 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 9: they can get often comes from selling their phones, their watch, 308 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 9: a cap, or their sneakers to be able to get 309 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 9: money to pay for their fare to keep going. 310 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 2: I asked him how the migration had impacted the community 311 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 2: with people making a lot of money, I asked, were 312 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: they mad about the trash and the pollution of the river. 313 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 2: These are legitimate concerns, even if they used in bad 314 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 2: faith against the migrants. 315 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 8: No effect. 316 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 9: Though nobody is perfect, but I can tell you one thing. Honestly, 317 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 9: the migrants suffer a lot to be able to carry 318 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 9: out this journey. And there are many times when I've 319 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 9: even had to give them clothes, some because they don't 320 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 9: have any. And well, when a father and family with 321 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 9: children comes, what can I say, Look, I have a family, 322 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 9: I have to do this. 323 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 8: Yeah. 324 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 2: I asked him what he felt the solution was to 325 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 2: the suffering here the damage done both to people and planet. 326 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 9: Hey, I say that oppressing people so that they don't 327 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,479 Speaker 9: go through the dairyen is not the solution because if 328 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 9: you put it to the point, even if they don't 329 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 9: know an exact percentage, the immigrant gives the economy of 330 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 9: the United States a balance because the people born there. 331 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 9: Not to criticize them, people born there want a stable job, 332 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 9: and he doesn't want to feel like he's very very low. However, 333 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 9: the immigrant is there and he's picking fruit, going to 334 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 9: the fruit trees, going to the vegetable fields, going to 335 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 9: the garbage dumps, going picking up things that many Americans 336 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 9: who live there don't do, of course, and so they 337 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 9: need them to say that they don't go. They need 338 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 9: the support of the immigrant to be able to have 339 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 9: the balance that they have today. 340 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 2: Like a lot of Panamanians I met, he was broadly 341 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 2: in solidarity the migrants. I didn't really encounter anti migrants 342 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 2: sentiment at all in my time at Panama. In the 343 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: capital city, which locals just called Panama but we can 344 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 2: call Panama City, migrants are not really physically present, nor 345 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 2: are they present in conversation. I found the transition for 346 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 2: the jungle and the refugee camps back to the bustling 347 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 2: city pretty challenging a lot of ways. I find I'm 348 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: oddly comfortable amidst the chaos and trauma of a refugee camp. 349 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,239 Speaker 2: It's a familiar environment for me, and I know how 350 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 2: to conduct myself. I feel safe with the migrants, and 351 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 2: I tend to find them very open and welcoming to me. 352 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: I can talk to anyone, and they can talk to me. 353 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 2: I bring toys for children and try to bring resources 354 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 2: for adults, and sometimes I bring my harmonica if I 355 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 2: being really cliche in a weird way. Refugee camps are 356 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: a little safe space for me, and even though I 357 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 2: know it's bad, I can console myself that I'm helping 358 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: a little or at least giving people some hope and 359 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 2: some information. That made me feel a bit better. But 360 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 2: in the city I found it hard, knowing that people 361 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: were in a terrible situation and that nobody here seemed 362 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: to care. I went for a running the jungle near 363 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 2: the city, trying to get some perspective and clear my head, 364 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 2: but I just ended up screaming and didn't considerate driver. 365 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 2: I was angry at them for nearly hitting me, but 366 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 2: I was just angry at everyone all over the US 367 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 2: and even here in Panama City for their indifference at 368 00:19:16,400 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 2: so much human suffering. The lack of concern about migrants 369 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 2: in Panama City made what I saw next at Last 370 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 2: Blankets even more surprising. An announcement of the loud speakers 371 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 2: called several Colombian passport holders to the migration office. At first, 372 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: it seemed like they were just going to a little 373 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: wooden shed with a couple of cene front officers in 374 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 2: it to return their documents. I had already noticed that 375 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 2: some migrants, and seemingly most of the African migrants, were 376 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 2: being called to a different shed to do biometric scans. 377 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 2: I wondered if this was part of the same process. 378 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 2: But shortly thereafter a truck rolled up and several of 379 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 2: the Colombians were loaded in. Apparently neither they nor their 380 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 2: partners knew what was going on. They're taking some of 381 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 2: the Columbian guys away to deport them. You can hear 382 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 2: a little kid crying for his dad. 383 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 4: Okay, listen, you sell a. 384 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 2: Jure taking his brother and his brother's wife, taking some 385 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 2: other lady's husband, some of little. 386 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 4: Kid's dad and making them sit on the floor. I 387 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 4: don't know why. Yeah, I don't know what they're going 388 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 4: to do. 389 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 2: Now. 390 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 4: She's trying to. 391 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 2: Give her husband the money and a SIM card so 392 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 2: he can call her. 393 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 4: You're gonna go get some more food. 394 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 2: Other margarets approached me to us if I knew, which 395 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 2: I didn't. The one lady who'd been there for weeks 396 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 2: told me that people who leave this way never come 397 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 2: back and they end up being deported, So we assume 398 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 2: that's what's happening here. 399 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, this really sucks. 400 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 2: Now they're taking the deportation by. There's men crying. 401 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 4: Becau said. 402 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 2: Wives are on their women crying, their husbands are on 403 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 2: their kids are crying, their parents are on there, and 404 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 2: they've just done this crossing and now they're going to 405 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 2: send them back. By the time I got back to 406 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 2: the city, I was getting texts from migrants with photos 407 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 2: of them in handcuffs. More and more of them were 408 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 2: being deported, particularly the Colombians. One of them, texting me 409 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 2: after being returned to Columbia on a flight, gave the 410 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: following account of detention. 411 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: They treated us very badly verbally and psychologically. We all 412 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: had to do our business in the same cell and 413 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: they threw food on the floor for us to eat 414 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: as we were all in handcuffs. They told us that 415 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: of Venezuelan had burned down the migrant detention center in 416 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: San Vincente and that we would all pay for it, 417 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: and that the Colombians didn't need to leave the country 418 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: because the president there said it was doing well and 419 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: there's plenty of work. None of that is true. 420 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 2: The American facility in sambacent they was burned out, and 421 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 2: the people working there top it was a Venezuelan migrant 422 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 2: who did that. 423 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 3: But all of that excuses any of this. 424 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 2: We weren't able to access that facility as the people 425 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 2: who had detained there. I can't really consent meaningfully to 426 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 2: an interview. That's a fair enough for paction. But the 427 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: migrant who was deported also alleged that they received no 428 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 2: hearings or a chance to appeal their deportation. Instead, they 429 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 2: were detained for eight days, spent their last US dollars, 430 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 2: and were then kicked out of the country. They were 431 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 2: not detained or arrested upon reaching Columbia, which makes it 432 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 2: a little more difficult for me to believe the claim 433 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 2: that only people without standing warrants in Columbia were being deported. 434 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: These weren't the only allegations of mistreatment I heard. Margrants 435 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 2: came to me and whispered about the abuse of black 436 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 2: migrants who were forced to walk to Lahas Blancos because 437 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 2: they couldn't afford the boat ride. I should note that 438 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 2: it wasn't the migrants who had been robbed or abuse 439 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 2: that came to me, It was other migrants. There was 440 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 2: a group of guys had given a water filter too 441 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 2: while they were leaving to walk from Lahas Blancas. I 442 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 2: hadn't been able to join them, but when they got there, 443 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: we ran into each other again, and they came up 444 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 2: to meet to share their concerns for the black men 445 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 2: who had walked with them. In one instance, one migrant 446 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 2: told me he was robbed by what he called quote 447 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 2: police dressed as thieves. The deportations, which seemed to be 448 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 2: increasingly commonplace, are being funded by US taxpayer dollars. The 449 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 2: same day that Molino took office in July, Homeland Security 450 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 2: Secretary Alejandro Majorcas, himself the child of migrants. 451 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:23,719 Speaker 3: Visited Panama. 452 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 2: Panama's a relatively young country and one which the US 453 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 2: occupied part of from much of the last century, but 454 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 2: despite a real struggle for independence, the Panamanian government didn't 455 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 2: seem concerned that the U. S Secretary of Homeland Security 456 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: was present at the inauguration of a president in a 457 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 2: country that decidedly not the U S homeland. The official 458 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 2: DHS readout of his trip notes that the US has 459 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 2: enjoyed a flourishing strategic relationship with Panama for over one 460 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 2: hundred years, which is certainly one way to sew up 461 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 2: decades of occupation, violence, and profit from the Panama Canal 462 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 2: and one of the more brutal dictatorships in the long 463 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 2: list of authoritarian regimes that the US preferred to com minister, 464 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 2: even socialist governments in the Western Hemisphere. They also announced 465 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 2: that the US government would quote help the Panamanian government 466 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 2: to remove foreign nationals who do not have a legal 467 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 2: basis to remain in Panama. Obviously, actually take this moment 468 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 2: to note that under the United Nations Refugee Convention, refugees 469 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 2: do have a legal right to travel. 470 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 3: Through a country on route to another. His Erica describing 471 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 3: that right. 472 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 5: The refuge you canvention is complex, then, does afford a 473 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 5: lot of rights to people who have fled their countries 474 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,360 Speaker 5: based on persecution. You know, you're supposed to be able 475 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 5: to pass through whichever country you want, go to, whichever 476 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 5: country you want, not be criminally prosecuted for crossing the 477 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 5: border between ports of entry and not be turned back 478 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 5: to a country or you face harm. 479 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 2: The US allocated six million dollars for a six month 480 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 2: pilot program of repatriations. If the program meets the USA's goals, 481 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 2: they might consider expanding it to other countries along the 482 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 2: migrant route. According to reporting in routers, as of early October, 483 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 2: they've deported five hundred and thirty people to Columbia. That's 484 00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 2: half of the people I saw arriving in a single 485 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 2: day in Bajojigito. Because Panama's government and Venezuela's government have 486 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 2: ceased relations after the election, Panama is now struggling to 487 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 2: deport Venezuelan's back to Venezuela, and it's actively searching for 488 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 2: a third country into which to deport them. But even 489 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 2: if the program resulted in one plane loaded day, which 490 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 2: it hasn't yet, that would be roughly ten percent of 491 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 2: the total DADDY in traffic, and far fewer planes are traveling. 492 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 2: What it will do like so many other DHS policies, 493 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 2: is play into the hands of smugglers. Already, new ocean 494 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 2: routes are being used which see migrants, many of whom 495 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 2: cannot swim, taking long journeys around Panama on ill equipped boats. 496 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 2: This doesn't help anyone apart from the DHS contractors and 497 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 2: staff equipping and training Panamanian personnel, and the human traffickers 498 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 2: making more and more money from migration. I also shopkeeper 499 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: his opinion on this. 500 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 8: Look. 501 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 9: I'll tell you I think that instead of giving them 502 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 9: a reward for deportation, they should give them support, a 503 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 9: lot of support, because it is a huge sacrifice to 504 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,959 Speaker 9: leave your country where you were born, your children, your family, 505 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 9: leave it to be able to have a future, and 506 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 9: you go with your mentality that your future is the 507 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 9: United States that will give you an opportunity to get 508 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 9: ahead and give well being to your children. Now, ten 509 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 9: percent of those who go are going to destroy the 510 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 9: good name of the migrants, But what people really want 511 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 9: to do is help their family, and this balance unbalances 512 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 9: everything that is being done by good people. Because there 513 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 9: are many good people who want to get ahead. And 514 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 9: I think that the United States should support give support 515 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 9: to people who really want to fight and move forward. 516 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 9: As I just told you, they give a lot of 517 00:27:40,119 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 9: benefit they contribute to the country. 518 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 2: After leaving Las Blancas, I felt pretty down about the 519 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 2: fact that people were just hitting a wall that they 520 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 2: couldn't overcome. Since then, I've stayed in touch with many 521 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 2: of them. For some a friend or family member was 522 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 2: able to send the money and they made it to 523 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 2: Costaly on the bus. From there, they crossed quickly into 524 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 2: Nicaragua and Guatemala before arriving in. 525 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 3: The Mexican border city of Tapachula in the state of. 526 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 2: Chiapas and ironically not so very far from whether the 527 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 2: Zapatistas made their revolution thirty years ago. Once they crossed 528 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: the southern border of Mexico, migrants can begin their application 529 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 2: for asylum using the CBP one app that we've talked 530 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 2: about so much on the show before. They can use 531 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: it in Tabasco and Chiapas, the southern border states, and 532 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 2: then once again when they're north of Mexico City. To 533 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: recap very briefly, the app is terrible and almost every way, 534 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 2: including its inability to recognize blackfaces. It's limited functionality on 535 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 2: Android phones, which is a vast majority of devices used 536 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 2: by migrants. It's constant crashing, an eight to nine month 537 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 2: wait time for Sylum appointments. His Erico, explaining some of 538 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 2: those problems. 539 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 5: You have to have a relatively new smartphone, you have 540 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 5: to have an address, all the people you're traveling with 541 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 5: have to be with you right, and you have to 542 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 5: first get through the initial kind of registration phase, which 543 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 5: doesn't always work. 544 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 6: The program is very glitchy. 545 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 5: You have to take a live photo, and you have 546 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 5: to wait essentially, so you know, it's kind of random too. 547 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 5: Some people will get an appointment within three months, but 548 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 5: I would say most people are waiting nine to twelve 549 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 5: At this point. You don't have any legal status in 550 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 5: Mexico while you're waiting, unless you can apply for some 551 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 5: other status in Mexico independently. 552 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: That it is yet very poorly designed. It's also a 553 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 2: de facto a metering system on asylum. 554 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 5: Erico explaining that we've been litigating against the use of 555 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 5: CBP one for a few years now. My organization out 556 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 5: at the level and Haitian ViRGE Alliance, and the reason 557 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 5: why we are fighting against the required use of CBP 558 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 5: one is first because it is an illegal metering system. 559 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,239 Speaker 5: So we've already litigated the fact that there is no 560 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 5: number limit on the amount of individuals who can seek 561 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 5: asylum at the US Mexico border, and Customs and Border 562 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 5: Protection legally does not have the right to turn people away, 563 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 5: and CBP one essentially allows them to do that. You know, 564 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 5: there were physical metering lists at ports of entry before 565 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 5: CBP one was implemented as essentially the only way to 566 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 5: access the US asylum system at ports of entry, and 567 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 5: now it's a digital metering list and it's very limited. 568 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 2: Recently, the Department of Homeland Security lost a court case 569 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,479 Speaker 2: which forced them to release records in there with some 570 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 2: of the app plugs and data regarding CBP one. I'm 571 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 2: still in the phase of coming through that asking my friends, 572 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 2: you know more about technologies than I do. Eplain exactly 573 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 2: what the limitations with the app are, but it doesn't 574 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 2: really matter. DHS is well aware of the app's flaws, 575 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 2: and it doesn't really seem to see the most flaws 576 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 2: at all. The goal of the app is to make 577 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 2: it harder for people, even those with very legitimate asylum claims, 578 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 2: to obtain asylum in the USA. As we heard yesterday. 579 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 2: The CHNV program is no better a recently Reddit thread 580 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 2: of applicants who've been waiting nearly two years. What I 581 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 2: didn't mention yesterday is a parallel program for another group 582 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 2: of migrants, which I'll let Erica explain. 583 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 6: I want to mention the fact that there is a 584 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 6: cap right. 585 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 5: I think it's thirty thousand a month or something like 586 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 5: that for those four countries. 587 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 6: But it's almost identical to. 588 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 5: The Ukrainian United for a Ukraine program, which doesn't have 589 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 5: a cap right, so there's no limit to how many 590 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 5: Ukrainians can get the same benefit. And they are renewing 591 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 5: the humanitarian prole for Ukrainians, which I believe was just 592 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 5: announced almost within weeks of them announcing that they're not 593 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 5: renewing for the other four countries. So it's really a 594 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 5: very stark demonstration of how the US immigration system, even 595 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 5: when it's a relatively meter or benefit, is based on race, 596 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 5: is based on which country you're from. 597 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 2: What this means is that in practice, the migrants I 598 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,959 Speaker 2: spoke to face a long and dangerous way in Mexico 599 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 2: while others skip ahead. I've got nothing against the Ukrainians, 600 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 2: and I don't think many of them do either. I 601 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 2: tried to go to Ukraine and report, but the avisas 602 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 2: ended up taking so long that I missed the flights 603 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 2: that I'd booked. I have, however, a serious problem with 604 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 2: a Biden administration which left people who fought alongside its 605 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 2: own US troops to die in Afghanistan and turned away 606 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 2: migrants small over the world, but then opened its arms 607 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 2: to a country that just happened to have the majority 608 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 2: of its citizens be the same race as the president. 609 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 2: It's cruel and it's wrong, and it's barely ever even 610 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 2: mentioned in national media coverage. But that's not fortunate enough 611 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 2: to be Ukrainian. Here's what waiting in Mexico looks like. 612 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 5: The incidence of crime director at migrants is horrifyingly high. 613 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 5: We had done an electronic survey a few years ago, 614 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 5: and this was during Title forty two, when people were 615 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 5: just being expelled to Mexico, and if I remember correctly, 616 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 5: it was like around twenty five to thirty percent of 617 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 5: people had been either raped. 618 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 6: Sex traffic assaulted, kidnapped. I mean, the list goes on 619 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 6: and on. 620 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 5: We've seen a lot of people lose their lives just 621 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 5: due to violence and the kidnapping rates are through the roof. 622 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 2: Almost everyone you've heard from in this series is now 623 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 2: stuck in Mexico. Some of them have been kidnapped, paid, 624 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 2: ransomed and released. Some of them have been sexually assaulted. 625 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 2: Many of them have been robbed. Some of them have, 626 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 2: after surviving one of the most deadly land migration routes 627 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,959 Speaker 2: on Earth, been killed while waiting in Mexico for an 628 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 2: app to stop crashing on their phones. Over a week 629 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 2: since I got home, I've seen them go gradually more 630 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 2: desperate and afraid just to get to Mexico. Many of 631 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: them have spent several thousand dollars. Once they're in Tapatula, 632 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 2: they faced with the astronomical costs for the trip north, 633 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 2: often several thousand dollars more, and many of them, their 634 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,959 Speaker 2: phones exhausted, have slept on the streets. Those didn't speak 635 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 2: Spanish struggle to find refuge. Those who did wanted to 636 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 2: move quickly north, but struggle to find the money here. 637 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 2: The Iranian migrants you heard earlier in the series explaining 638 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 2: what they'd already heard about CBP one. 639 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 8: It's so tough because the some polices in their way, 640 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:32,800 Speaker 8: they are two to our money that we came from Iran. 641 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 8: It was so difficult for us, and the resumed a way. 642 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 8: So Mexico, Mexico is so difficult for us, and something 643 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 8: is CBP one is not working for our for us, 644 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 8: for Iranian people, Yeah, I hope the people who are 645 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 8: in Mexico City for about three months, for three. 646 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 4: Months, yeah, CPP wanted. 647 00:34:59,160 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 1: Yeah. 648 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 8: Because of that, Iranian people go through the wall and yeah, yeah, 649 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 8: it's it's not our choice. We have to do this. 650 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 8: We don't want them, but it's we have to do this. 651 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's good to explain that. 652 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,800 Speaker 2: According to a study conducted at the University of Texas, 653 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 2: wait times are as high as eight or nine months 654 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,479 Speaker 2: on average now Mexico and out. It's on the thirty 655 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 2: first of August that it will provide security and food 656 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,399 Speaker 2: for migrants who have an appointment to travel north from 657 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 2: the south of the country to the place where they 658 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 2: have a CVP one appointment. Margarets absolutely have been robbed 659 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,439 Speaker 2: or kidnapped on their way to their appointment and missed 660 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 2: it as a result, But they're just as honorable in 661 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 2: the eight or nine months that they have to wait 662 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 2: for one. Margarets and Tapajula are at a very high 663 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 2: risk for kidnapping and are often held until their families 664 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 2: pay ransoms. But without money or an appointment, they have 665 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 2: little means of leaving the city. Some choose to travel 666 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 2: a little further north and then hop on a freight 667 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,720 Speaker 2: train known as Labestia the Beast, an extraordinarily risky endeavor 668 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 2: that several of the people I spoke to for this 669 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 2: series have undertaken. The only place to ride on these 670 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 2: trains is on top of carriages, exposing migrants to freezing 671 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 2: temperatures in the desert night. Even on the train, they're 672 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,919 Speaker 2: not safe from kidnapping. Like many migrants, the Iranian group 673 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 2: were well informed about domestic politics in the US, and 674 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 2: they said that when they made their journey north, they 675 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 2: wanted to be sure to avoid the states where local 676 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 2: law enforcement was likely to turn them over for deportation. 677 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 2: In reality, that could be any of the states, but 678 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 2: they're probably right that their life would be a little 679 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 2: easier on the West Coast. 680 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 8: I heard it's so difficult and about three months, four months, 681 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 8: more than seven months, they will arrest us in the US. 682 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 8: I heard in Mississippi it takes us in Yeah, yeah, yeah. 683 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 8: I think that the California is a little little, little. 684 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 10: Yeah earlier, Our money is very excuse me, shds money 685 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 10: in the world, and we have to pay a lot 686 00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 10: of money for this way because. 687 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 8: How one yeah, one dollar is sixteen thousand. 688 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,720 Speaker 2: Some of course, which use to cross the border between 689 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 2: ports of entry as they become desperate to see their 690 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 2: families or afraid of remaining in Mexico. Since President Biden's 691 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,240 Speaker 2: executive audio earlier this summer, doing this can result expedited 692 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 2: removal proceedings, and effectively, Biden's new ruling denies asylum by 693 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 2: default to anyone crossing the border when daily crossings sur 694 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 2: passed twenty five hundred. In fact, this is the continuation 695 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 2: of extremely punitive and cruel politics that have been in 696 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 2: place since he was finally forced to stop using Title 697 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,919 Speaker 2: forty two, which, if you're not aware, is a public 698 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 2: health law used by the Trump administration and embraced by 699 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 2: the Biden administration as an asylum law. It has already 700 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 2: resulted in the deportations of people back to places where 701 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 2: they have extremely credible fears of harm and created a 702 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 2: system whereby migrants have no idea how they will be 703 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 2: treated on any given day. Again, it's play into the 704 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 2: hands of anyone seeking to smoke or migrants into the 705 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 2: country and detective well also harming innocent people coming to 706 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 2: this country to US for protection. He's Erica's short history 707 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 2: of Biden's asylent policy since last year. 708 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 5: So when the Biden administration lifted Title forty two, they 709 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 5: essentially imposed what I call a transit then. 710 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 6: So there's a couple of components to it. 711 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 5: One is, if you do not enter the United States 712 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 5: out of port of entry with a CDP one appointment, 713 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 5: you are presumed ineligible for asylum unless you fall under 714 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,320 Speaker 5: a few narrow exceptions which are not consistently applied. So 715 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,919 Speaker 5: the exceptions are things like you were having a medical emergency, 716 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 5: you were running for your life, you know, you couldn't 717 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 5: access the app for some reason. But in practice those 718 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 5: exceptions are almost never applied at ports. There's been a 719 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 5: few kind of alternative programs run by shelters or local 720 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 5: governments where people with extreme medical vulnerabilities, for example, can 721 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,319 Speaker 5: be let in without an appointment, but we don't know 722 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,359 Speaker 5: whether the ban applies to them once they enter without 723 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 5: that appointment, right, So it's like I said, inconsistently applied exceptions. 724 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 5: If you enter between a port of entry, you're presumed 725 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 5: and eligible for asylum again unless you meet some narrow exceptions. 726 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 6: And what that means is you can still. 727 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 5: Apply for other types of protection in the United States. 728 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:25,879 Speaker 5: So there's two principal types of protection. One it's called 729 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 5: withholding a removal, which is like asylum but with a 730 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 5: higher standard. And then the other is Convention against Torture, 731 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 5: which you just have to prove it's more likely than 732 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 5: not that your own government will torture you, which is 733 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 5: more extreme than persecution. But is it necessarily based on 734 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,240 Speaker 5: a protected ground, So the torture gived you for any reason, 735 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 5: but it's a high hurdle. But the most important thing 736 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 5: is those two types of protection are not pased to 737 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 5: citizenship and they do not allow you to petition for 738 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 5: your family. So, for example, if you get asylum in 739 00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 5: the US and then you want to ask for your 740 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 5: life and children to join you, there is an avenue 741 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 5: for that, and all of you can eventually become citizens. 742 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 5: Withholding a removal and Convention against Torture, you basically get 743 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 5: a work from it. If conditions in your country change, 744 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 5: they can deport you and you can never leave the 745 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 5: United States, and you can never reunify with your family, 746 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 5: and you could never become a citizen. 747 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 2: This won't deter people. I speak to people every day 748 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 2: who cross the Daddy in We're kidnapped, robbed, and sometimes 749 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 2: raped on their way here. They're going through all of 750 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 2: that because we refuse to give people a dignified or 751 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 2: safe way to come here. They know it's a risk, 752 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 2: and they continue to come because they think it's the 753 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 2: only option. His powers from Cameroon and explaining. 754 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,800 Speaker 6: That it's deadly, how will I to you it's fifty 755 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 6: fifty alive on date, honestly speakause. 756 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 4: But we had to take their rigs because I think 757 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 4: that was the. 758 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 10: Only all from that we had. 759 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,959 Speaker 2: If you can't imagine taking those risks, it's likely because 760 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 2: you can't imagine the things these people are. 761 00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 3: Leaving behind either. 762 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 2: As a conflict reporter, I've been able to see a 763 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 2: small amount of what they're fleeing, war, death, poverty, state violence. 764 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,399 Speaker 2: I don't know if i'd be brave or strong enough 765 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 2: to do the same, but I have a lot of 766 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 2: respect for people who can. Tomorrow we're going to talk 767 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 2: about the people who help them along the way and 768 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 2: what you can do to support them when the state works. 769 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 11: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 770 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 11: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 771 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 11: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 772 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 11: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 773 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,799 Speaker 11: You can now find sources for it could Happen Here 774 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,800 Speaker 11: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.