1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:22,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. So of course I knew about the wage gap. 2 00:00:23,316 --> 00:00:26,436 Speaker 1: You know, on average, women earn less than men for 3 00:00:26,516 --> 00:00:30,596 Speaker 1: comparable work. What I did not know about was the 4 00:00:30,756 --> 00:00:35,836 Speaker 1: investing gap. Even when you control for variables like wealth 5 00:00:35,876 --> 00:00:39,356 Speaker 1: and income, women are much less likely than men to 6 00:00:39,516 --> 00:00:43,556 Speaker 1: invest in real estate or the stock market. And that, 7 00:00:43,676 --> 00:00:46,716 Speaker 1: of course means that women are much less likely than 8 00:00:46,756 --> 00:00:51,316 Speaker 1: men to build wealth over time. And this problem has 9 00:00:51,316 --> 00:00:56,356 Speaker 1: gone largely unnoticed and unaddressed, in part because most investment 10 00:00:56,436 --> 00:01:05,756 Speaker 1: companies have been run by and for men. I'm Jacob 11 00:01:05,756 --> 00:01:08,596 Speaker 1: Goldstein and this is What's Your Problem, the show where 12 00:01:08,716 --> 00:01:11,276 Speaker 1: entrepreneur and engineers talk about how they're going to change 13 00:01:11,276 --> 00:01:14,476 Speaker 1: the world once they solve a few problems. My guest 14 00:01:14,516 --> 00:01:19,236 Speaker 1: today is Sally Crotchet, founder and CEO of laves. It's 15 00:01:19,276 --> 00:01:22,436 Speaker 1: an investment firm aimed at women, and it has around 16 00:01:22,476 --> 00:01:27,196 Speaker 1: one point five billion dollars in assets under management. Sally's 17 00:01:27,196 --> 00:01:30,796 Speaker 1: problem is this, how do you convince women to become investors? 18 00:01:31,836 --> 00:01:35,836 Speaker 1: Before Sally founded Lavest, she spent decades working in finance, 19 00:01:36,156 --> 00:01:38,876 Speaker 1: and as she worked her way up to top jobs 20 00:01:38,916 --> 00:01:42,676 Speaker 1: at City Bank and Merrill Lynch, one thing kept being true. 21 00:01:43,036 --> 00:01:46,036 Speaker 1: She was often the only woman in the room. She 22 00:01:46,116 --> 00:01:49,076 Speaker 1: told me that started way back at her first job 23 00:01:49,076 --> 00:01:52,036 Speaker 1: in finance at Solomon Brothers back in the late eighties. 24 00:01:53,916 --> 00:01:58,836 Speaker 1: It was stay up all night, run for the airplane, 25 00:01:59,636 --> 00:02:06,636 Speaker 1: work on deals, sharp elbows, lots of gender discrimination, all 26 00:02:06,676 --> 00:02:09,676 Speaker 1: the stuff you read. Just take it, you know, if 27 00:02:09,676 --> 00:02:12,436 Speaker 1: that's a five, take it to a ten. Well, what 28 00:02:12,556 --> 00:02:15,356 Speaker 1: was it like being a woman there? It was horrible. 29 00:02:15,636 --> 00:02:18,756 Speaker 1: It was horrible. It was horrible everything about it. I 30 00:02:18,836 --> 00:02:22,596 Speaker 1: remember my literally my very first day, literally my very 31 00:02:22,636 --> 00:02:24,316 Speaker 1: vers day. I'm sitting there. I grew up in Charleston, 32 00:02:24,356 --> 00:02:27,436 Speaker 1: South Carolina. I went to UNC. I was wearing the 33 00:02:27,516 --> 00:02:31,556 Speaker 1: absolute most professional thing you could buy in the city 34 00:02:31,556 --> 00:02:35,636 Speaker 1: of Charleston, South Carolina. It was a you know, sort 35 00:02:35,636 --> 00:02:40,276 Speaker 1: of loosely fitting jacket and a loosely fitting sort of 36 00:02:40,436 --> 00:02:44,876 Speaker 1: longish skirt. And I remember standing by my desk, Oh, look, 37 00:02:44,996 --> 00:02:49,916 Speaker 1: here are my pencils, and smelled cigar smoke. And a 38 00:02:49,916 --> 00:02:53,516 Speaker 1: man went by smoking a cigar. He pauses, he looks 39 00:02:53,556 --> 00:02:57,796 Speaker 1: at me, he says, what is that effing discount maternity wear? 40 00:02:58,836 --> 00:03:01,036 Speaker 1: He kept going And I said to someone, who the 41 00:03:01,076 --> 00:03:04,436 Speaker 1: heck was that, Oh, that's the head of the department. 42 00:03:04,476 --> 00:03:07,916 Speaker 1: Your boss's boss's boss's boss. From there on it got worse. 43 00:03:08,276 --> 00:03:13,076 Speaker 1: And it's interesting because I read now research that sexual 44 00:03:13,116 --> 00:03:16,756 Speaker 1: harassment you think it comes from powerful men, but apparently 45 00:03:16,756 --> 00:03:19,956 Speaker 1: it comes from men who want to be powerful. And 46 00:03:20,076 --> 00:03:23,356 Speaker 1: so for those individuals who were a leveler two ahead 47 00:03:23,356 --> 00:03:26,676 Speaker 1: of me, you know, in the evening, putting xerots copies 48 00:03:26,716 --> 00:03:31,116 Speaker 1: of male genitalia on my desk. On one level, I 49 00:03:31,156 --> 00:03:33,956 Speaker 1: know I shouldn't be surprised, like I read Liar's Poker. 50 00:03:33,996 --> 00:03:38,356 Speaker 1: I've read research, and yet it's strangely still shocking to me. 51 00:03:38,476 --> 00:03:40,476 Speaker 1: I know better than to be shocked, and yet I 52 00:03:40,516 --> 00:03:43,596 Speaker 1: am shocked. I know, I know, but there was nothing 53 00:03:43,636 --> 00:03:48,676 Speaker 1: I could do except just keep going. I had signed 54 00:03:48,716 --> 00:03:51,876 Speaker 1: a lease, a twelve month lease in New York City 55 00:03:51,916 --> 00:03:54,196 Speaker 1: that I did not have money in the bank, of course, 56 00:03:54,276 --> 00:03:56,796 Speaker 1: to pay for. My parents did not have money in 57 00:03:56,836 --> 00:03:59,396 Speaker 1: the bank to pay for. All I could do was 58 00:03:59,556 --> 00:04:03,236 Speaker 1: keep going to work and just survive through it, and 59 00:04:04,196 --> 00:04:10,476 Speaker 1: over time be good enough, be indispensable enough that that 60 00:04:10,796 --> 00:04:12,916 Speaker 1: stuff had to fall away. And then over time, as 61 00:04:12,956 --> 00:04:15,436 Speaker 1: I became more senior. Of course, don't don't stand for it. 62 00:04:16,716 --> 00:04:18,956 Speaker 1: And it seems like, I mean, this is jumping ahead 63 00:04:18,996 --> 00:04:21,716 Speaker 1: a bit now, but it seems like you eventually really 64 00:04:21,956 --> 00:04:25,196 Speaker 1: kind of found your your niche, your groove in finance 65 00:04:25,316 --> 00:04:28,676 Speaker 1: as an analyst. Um, tell tell me about that part 66 00:04:28,676 --> 00:04:31,196 Speaker 1: of your career. Oh, I loved it. I loved it, 67 00:04:31,636 --> 00:04:35,116 Speaker 1: and probably part of what it went to things I 68 00:04:35,156 --> 00:04:38,756 Speaker 1: love to do. I your your listeners gonna be like, 69 00:04:38,756 --> 00:04:41,756 Speaker 1: she's such a she's such a goober. Um, I love 70 00:04:41,836 --> 00:04:46,356 Speaker 1: to get lost in. It's a very good I mean, 71 00:04:46,636 --> 00:04:49,916 Speaker 1: I you know, I will start looking at at an 72 00:04:49,916 --> 00:04:52,996 Speaker 1: Excel spreadsheet or Google sheets and I will look up 73 00:04:53,036 --> 00:04:55,636 Speaker 1: in four hours have passed and how did that happen? 74 00:04:56,236 --> 00:04:59,596 Speaker 1: That was being a research annelist. I loved it. It 75 00:04:59,756 --> 00:05:04,276 Speaker 1: probably helped that one. I found that job at Sanford Bernstein, 76 00:05:04,396 --> 00:05:07,076 Speaker 1: which you know was a group of I used to 77 00:05:07,076 --> 00:05:09,556 Speaker 1: call it the Island of the misfit toys. It was 78 00:05:09,636 --> 00:05:13,716 Speaker 1: not sor to wear traditional Wall Street pulled from, and 79 00:05:14,716 --> 00:05:18,156 Speaker 1: that the sexism sort of fell away because you were 80 00:05:18,156 --> 00:05:21,996 Speaker 1: an individual contributor. You weren't working on teams and jostling 81 00:05:22,076 --> 00:05:25,556 Speaker 1: with folks, and people wanted to make money and if 82 00:05:25,556 --> 00:05:28,116 Speaker 1: you could help them make money or have insights that 83 00:05:28,196 --> 00:05:32,876 Speaker 1: others didn't, there was something about it where the sexism 84 00:05:32,956 --> 00:05:36,116 Speaker 1: sort of fell away, And in fact, I would argue 85 00:05:36,116 --> 00:05:39,796 Speaker 1: that being a woman probably helped me because if I 86 00:05:39,836 --> 00:05:43,356 Speaker 1: was competing against fifteen men, you couldn't forget me, and 87 00:05:43,436 --> 00:05:46,676 Speaker 1: particularly if the research was any good, which humbly it was, 88 00:05:47,076 --> 00:05:51,716 Speaker 1: you couldn't forget me. So there's one piece of research 89 00:05:51,756 --> 00:05:55,396 Speaker 1: in particular that seems to sort of stand out, and 90 00:05:55,436 --> 00:05:59,916 Speaker 1: that was this report you wrote about American General. Tell 91 00:05:59,956 --> 00:06:02,076 Speaker 1: me just a little bit about that, like very like, 92 00:06:02,516 --> 00:06:04,476 Speaker 1: what was that? When was that? Why was it important? 93 00:06:04,476 --> 00:06:06,236 Speaker 1: For years? So it was actually my first piece of 94 00:06:06,276 --> 00:06:08,756 Speaker 1: research before I knew how the game was supposed to 95 00:06:08,756 --> 00:06:13,156 Speaker 1: be playing, which which was a benefit. And American General 96 00:06:13,156 --> 00:06:16,716 Speaker 1: was an insurance company and they were finding growth in 97 00:06:17,076 --> 00:06:21,036 Speaker 1: lending and making loans, and the analyst at the time said, oh, 98 00:06:21,036 --> 00:06:23,676 Speaker 1: look they've found this avenue to growth. This is exciting, 99 00:06:23,716 --> 00:06:27,436 Speaker 1: this is an outperform. And I, using the same information 100 00:06:27,476 --> 00:06:30,276 Speaker 1: other analysts had looked at it and said, you know, 101 00:06:31,076 --> 00:06:36,636 Speaker 1: the credit quality appears fine when you look at it 102 00:06:37,116 --> 00:06:41,276 Speaker 1: versus today's loans, but credit quality only emerges over time, right, 103 00:06:41,356 --> 00:06:44,476 Speaker 1: bad credit quality? So let me lag the ratios and 104 00:06:44,516 --> 00:06:48,316 Speaker 1: see how today's credit quality looks versus last year's loans. 105 00:06:48,636 --> 00:06:52,116 Speaker 1: The answer was terrible. So I wrote this up. I said, 106 00:06:52,156 --> 00:06:55,796 Speaker 1: you know what, they're growing because they're they're reducing their 107 00:06:55,876 --> 00:06:58,996 Speaker 1: credit standards and making loans other people won't. This is 108 00:06:58,996 --> 00:07:01,236 Speaker 1: going to blow up. I published it. I called it 109 00:07:01,276 --> 00:07:06,036 Speaker 1: woan ally. The company was furious, other analysts were furious, 110 00:07:06,476 --> 00:07:09,956 Speaker 1: and a couple months later, damn it if it didn't 111 00:07:09,956 --> 00:07:12,916 Speaker 1: blow up. And when the bubble burst and we stood 112 00:07:12,916 --> 00:07:15,156 Speaker 1: alone and our business exploded, I was on the cover 113 00:07:15,236 --> 00:07:18,596 Speaker 1: of Fortune as the Last honest Analyst, which is still 114 00:07:19,316 --> 00:07:21,316 Speaker 1: still when I think back on it, is like the 115 00:07:21,316 --> 00:07:24,596 Speaker 1: most surreal thing that ever happened to me. Uh say, 116 00:07:24,596 --> 00:07:27,956 Speaker 1: more surreal, how because your face is on the cover 117 00:07:28,036 --> 00:07:30,676 Speaker 1: of a magazine and you walk through the airport, You're like, 118 00:07:30,716 --> 00:07:33,356 Speaker 1: there's my face on the cover of a magazine. And 119 00:07:33,636 --> 00:07:36,676 Speaker 1: by the way, the face on the cover was bigger 120 00:07:36,716 --> 00:07:39,996 Speaker 1: than my own actual face. I think, did you hold 121 00:07:40,036 --> 00:07:41,876 Speaker 1: it up? I would have definitely held it up to 122 00:07:41,876 --> 00:07:43,756 Speaker 1: see it. But I held it up and tried to 123 00:07:43,796 --> 00:07:46,596 Speaker 1: track it, and it was even so big that there 124 00:07:46,676 --> 00:07:48,636 Speaker 1: was a little mole on my chin that I thought 125 00:07:48,676 --> 00:07:50,556 Speaker 1: i'd have removed. And I started the magazine. I'm like 126 00:07:50,596 --> 00:07:52,796 Speaker 1: it didn't. They didn't fully get that little mold, did they. 127 00:07:54,436 --> 00:07:58,676 Speaker 1: So so you're like Nerd famous at this point, you're 128 00:07:58,716 --> 00:08:04,116 Speaker 1: Wall Street famous, right, you know you ascend. Right. You 129 00:08:04,236 --> 00:08:09,236 Speaker 1: have a very senior job at was it Smith Barney 130 00:08:09,276 --> 00:08:13,196 Speaker 1: within City and you lose that job. And then you 131 00:08:13,276 --> 00:08:16,316 Speaker 1: have a very senior job at Mary Lynch when it's 132 00:08:16,356 --> 00:08:19,756 Speaker 1: part of Bank of America after the financial crisis, and 133 00:08:19,836 --> 00:08:22,756 Speaker 1: you lose that job. Thanks for bringing that up. Really, 134 00:08:23,916 --> 00:08:27,196 Speaker 1: you know, it's a story has a happy is a 135 00:08:27,236 --> 00:08:30,556 Speaker 1: happy ending. Um, we know, we know it's going to 136 00:08:30,636 --> 00:08:33,476 Speaker 1: work out. But tell me tell me about losing that 137 00:08:33,476 --> 00:08:35,156 Speaker 1: second job. I mean, it seems like that sets you 138 00:08:35,236 --> 00:08:38,916 Speaker 1: up to found Elves. So yeah, tell me about about 139 00:08:38,996 --> 00:08:42,956 Speaker 1: losing the merrilleam. So it was it was a shocker, 140 00:08:43,036 --> 00:08:50,796 Speaker 1: and it wasn't. Um it wasn't because um, I knew 141 00:08:50,836 --> 00:08:53,516 Speaker 1: the CEO and I were not big buddies. He never 142 00:08:53,636 --> 00:08:55,716 Speaker 1: stopped by my office on the way to the leadership 143 00:08:55,716 --> 00:08:57,916 Speaker 1: team meeting and said, Hey, Sally, can I run something 144 00:08:58,076 --> 00:09:00,636 Speaker 1: by you? You know I would. I was the last 145 00:09:00,676 --> 00:09:03,516 Speaker 1: on the leadership team to know. It was a surprise 146 00:09:04,276 --> 00:09:07,956 Speaker 1: because we had turned the business around, the business was growing, 147 00:09:07,996 --> 00:09:11,836 Speaker 1: we were gaining share. We were beating plan and I remember, 148 00:09:12,596 --> 00:09:14,276 Speaker 1: you know, saying to my husband, I mean, he doesn't 149 00:09:14,396 --> 00:09:17,836 Speaker 1: we're not getting along, but the results are there. And 150 00:09:17,836 --> 00:09:19,836 Speaker 1: we were like, well, if the results are there, and 151 00:09:19,876 --> 00:09:22,756 Speaker 1: I would check in with his you know, entourage, or 152 00:09:22,756 --> 00:09:25,236 Speaker 1: am I doing okay? Yeah, you're doing fine. You're doing fine. 153 00:09:26,476 --> 00:09:30,076 Speaker 1: And then you know, one day after, you know, just 154 00:09:30,116 --> 00:09:33,316 Speaker 1: as I'm feeling like this is great, I was pulled 155 00:09:33,316 --> 00:09:36,676 Speaker 1: into his office and he said, we're gonna reorg. You're out. 156 00:09:37,556 --> 00:09:41,876 Speaker 1: We're going to have this gentleman who happened to be 157 00:09:42,516 --> 00:09:45,956 Speaker 1: a white man in his I think early sixties, who 158 00:09:45,956 --> 00:09:49,836 Speaker 1: had worked with the you know, the CEO in the past, 159 00:09:50,276 --> 00:09:53,116 Speaker 1: who would never run a wealth management business. But we 160 00:09:53,316 --> 00:09:55,596 Speaker 1: you know, essentially, we think this guy who's never done 161 00:09:55,636 --> 00:09:57,996 Speaker 1: this job before can do a better job than you 162 00:09:59,036 --> 00:10:01,196 Speaker 1: when it's what you do in your career and you've 163 00:10:01,276 --> 00:10:05,316 Speaker 1: you've actually turned the business around by and just like 164 00:10:05,636 --> 00:10:10,276 Speaker 1: what and and hes sort of hearing, well, we don't 165 00:10:10,276 --> 00:10:15,036 Speaker 1: think you're a culture fit, which is you know, code 166 00:10:15,116 --> 00:10:17,316 Speaker 1: language obviously for we all like you, you know, or 167 00:10:17,316 --> 00:10:21,156 Speaker 1: you're too loud, or you're too flashy, or you're too something. 168 00:10:22,116 --> 00:10:25,116 Speaker 1: But that was sort of a shocker because I always 169 00:10:25,156 --> 00:10:29,276 Speaker 1: sort of thought, just deliver the results, be respectful, keep 170 00:10:29,316 --> 00:10:32,476 Speaker 1: your head down, and good things will happen. And it didn't. 171 00:10:32,556 --> 00:10:37,396 Speaker 1: It did not. And what did you do when you 172 00:10:37,516 --> 00:10:40,676 Speaker 1: got fired? What? What? What happened next? Yeah? So I 173 00:10:40,716 --> 00:10:45,676 Speaker 1: went home and drank Okaya Classic for a reason, you 174 00:10:45,716 --> 00:10:50,436 Speaker 1: know why not? Drank and felt sorry for myself for 175 00:10:50,956 --> 00:10:54,076 Speaker 1: a day, and then you know, I do remember, I 176 00:10:54,116 --> 00:10:57,196 Speaker 1: absolutely remember thinking to myself, first of all, recognizing that 177 00:10:57,276 --> 00:11:00,116 Speaker 1: success and failure two sides of the same coin. Right, 178 00:11:00,196 --> 00:11:03,076 Speaker 1: the you're not a culture fit means you're standing out 179 00:11:03,116 --> 00:11:06,196 Speaker 1: too much. Well, in order to actually get to where 180 00:11:06,236 --> 00:11:08,196 Speaker 1: I was, Remember, as we just talked about, I had 181 00:11:08,196 --> 00:11:11,196 Speaker 1: to stand out. If I'd played the game the same 182 00:11:11,236 --> 00:11:13,796 Speaker 1: way everybody played it, I never would have gotten to 183 00:11:13,836 --> 00:11:17,836 Speaker 1: those senior levels. I had to see the research differently, 184 00:11:18,316 --> 00:11:21,716 Speaker 1: have different strategies. And what's my evidence of that, Well, 185 00:11:21,756 --> 00:11:23,636 Speaker 1: if you look up at the time, there were like 186 00:11:23,876 --> 00:11:27,476 Speaker 1: zero women in senior leadership, and so I had to 187 00:11:27,476 --> 00:11:30,276 Speaker 1: play the game differently. By playing the game differently, I 188 00:11:30,316 --> 00:11:33,316 Speaker 1: stood out and therefore risk losing my job. And you 189 00:11:33,356 --> 00:11:35,876 Speaker 1: can't have I wish I had the secret for a 190 00:11:35,876 --> 00:11:38,236 Speaker 1: while you can be super successful, but without taking risks, 191 00:11:38,236 --> 00:11:42,436 Speaker 1: you can't do that. So the second day, I definitely knew. 192 00:11:42,596 --> 00:11:45,836 Speaker 1: At the time, I knew it was one of the 193 00:11:45,836 --> 00:11:48,156 Speaker 1: best things that ever happened to me. I knew I 194 00:11:48,196 --> 00:11:49,636 Speaker 1: was going to look back on that day and be like, 195 00:11:49,716 --> 00:11:53,676 Speaker 1: thank goodness, why, because honestly, I wasn't happy there. You know, 196 00:11:53,716 --> 00:11:56,116 Speaker 1: if you're not part of the inner team and your 197 00:11:56,236 --> 00:11:58,676 Speaker 1: leadership team and you feel out, that's not a good 198 00:11:58,676 --> 00:12:01,236 Speaker 1: place to be. But I never could have left. I 199 00:12:01,316 --> 00:12:03,316 Speaker 1: never could have called my dad and said, hey, Dad, 200 00:12:03,636 --> 00:12:05,956 Speaker 1: I have X tens of thousands people reporting to me. 201 00:12:06,036 --> 00:12:08,796 Speaker 1: We're turning around command of the financial crisis. I just 202 00:12:08,796 --> 00:12:11,916 Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm part of the inner team. I 203 00:12:11,956 --> 00:12:15,076 Speaker 1: just feel like I should leave. Never would I have 204 00:12:15,196 --> 00:12:19,556 Speaker 1: done that, But I knew this was a catalyst for 205 00:12:19,636 --> 00:12:22,636 Speaker 1: me to do something different and bigger and more important. 206 00:12:22,756 --> 00:12:24,596 Speaker 1: It's just at the time I didn't know what it was. 207 00:12:24,916 --> 00:12:28,116 Speaker 1: So how do you get from there to founding Elvest Law? 208 00:12:28,276 --> 00:12:31,036 Speaker 1: It was a law, It was not overnight. How did 209 00:12:31,036 --> 00:12:34,676 Speaker 1: I get here? Well, people said to me, when I'm 210 00:12:34,716 --> 00:12:37,556 Speaker 1: on a little journey, you should start an investing firm 211 00:12:37,596 --> 00:12:41,916 Speaker 1: for women, And I thought that is no, no, no, no no, 212 00:12:42,396 --> 00:12:45,276 Speaker 1: women do not need their own thing. And by the way, 213 00:12:45,276 --> 00:12:47,716 Speaker 1: if I'm going to be honest, I'm a varsity player. 214 00:12:47,756 --> 00:12:52,316 Speaker 1: I'm not going to do some look at us girls together, right. 215 00:12:52,476 --> 00:12:54,916 Speaker 1: I mean there is a way in which the idea 216 00:12:55,036 --> 00:12:59,556 Speaker 1: could be seen as as patronizing, right for sure. And 217 00:12:59,876 --> 00:13:03,556 Speaker 1: when we launched, a double digit percent of women told 218 00:13:03,636 --> 00:13:07,316 Speaker 1: us so we had it, Like that was your first response, 219 00:13:08,556 --> 00:13:13,596 Speaker 1: that is, why why do girls need a special Like, yeah, 220 00:13:11,916 --> 00:13:17,476 Speaker 1: we can do that, we don't need. But the issue 221 00:13:17,636 --> 00:13:21,876 Speaker 1: is we don't. We don't. How did you go from? 222 00:13:21,916 --> 00:13:24,836 Speaker 1: How did you go from thinking that's that's an insult 223 00:13:24,876 --> 00:13:27,436 Speaker 1: to women to being, oh, that's actually something women need. 224 00:13:27,436 --> 00:13:29,876 Speaker 1: How did you how did you get from you know, 225 00:13:29,916 --> 00:13:32,716 Speaker 1: I went around a corner and threw a pasture and 226 00:13:32,956 --> 00:13:37,556 Speaker 1: ended up. And the momentum was actually when I was 227 00:13:37,636 --> 00:13:39,916 Speaker 1: one morning putting on my mask era and just was 228 00:13:39,956 --> 00:13:42,476 Speaker 1: sort of, you know, my mind is wandering, and all 229 00:13:42,556 --> 00:13:44,676 Speaker 1: of a sudden I had I thought, I'm gonna have 230 00:13:44,756 --> 00:13:50,036 Speaker 1: a big insight and I did, and I did. I 231 00:13:50,036 --> 00:13:51,916 Speaker 1: don't know it. Sometimes it happens to me where I'll 232 00:13:51,956 --> 00:13:54,796 Speaker 1: be like I'm about to like, some thing's coming together 233 00:13:55,476 --> 00:13:59,876 Speaker 1: and the thing that came together was that the retirement 234 00:13:59,996 --> 00:14:04,756 Speaker 1: saving shortfall in this country is a woman's problem. It's 235 00:14:04,796 --> 00:14:08,356 Speaker 1: a woman's issue. Why because eighty percent of women die single, 236 00:14:09,156 --> 00:14:11,036 Speaker 1: We live sixty eight years longer than the men. In 237 00:14:11,076 --> 00:14:13,396 Speaker 1: our lives. Half of marriage is end in divorce. We 238 00:14:13,516 --> 00:14:16,516 Speaker 1: end up sadly alone. I mean, look at any nursing 239 00:14:16,516 --> 00:14:18,356 Speaker 1: home in this country and you know this to be true. 240 00:14:19,116 --> 00:14:23,956 Speaker 1: And so therefore, if there's not enough money for retirement, 241 00:14:24,156 --> 00:14:29,196 Speaker 1: it's us huh huh. So that in that universe, even 242 00:14:29,236 --> 00:14:32,676 Speaker 1: if everybody has the same amount of money saved at 243 00:14:32,716 --> 00:14:36,316 Speaker 1: age whatever, sixty, it's still a bigger problem for women, 244 00:14:36,396 --> 00:14:39,556 Speaker 1: just because women will live longer than men be more 245 00:14:39,596 --> 00:14:41,676 Speaker 1: likely to run out of money as a result. And 246 00:14:41,716 --> 00:14:43,156 Speaker 1: by the way, add to that, if you want to 247 00:14:43,156 --> 00:14:45,876 Speaker 1: back up, that women earn less for doing the same jobs, 248 00:14:46,276 --> 00:14:48,996 Speaker 1: we take more career breaks and our salaries peak sooner. 249 00:14:49,356 --> 00:14:53,556 Speaker 1: So there's actually compounding issues here as well. So I'm 250 00:14:53,676 --> 00:14:57,996 Speaker 1: I'm looking at this and I'm saying that is a problem. Huh. 251 00:14:58,036 --> 00:15:02,996 Speaker 1: And eventually got to women have thirty cents of wealth 252 00:15:03,076 --> 00:15:07,556 Speaker 1: for every dollar men have. Black women a penny. Okay, 253 00:15:07,596 --> 00:15:09,996 Speaker 1: so we talk about your your listeners may have heard 254 00:15:09,996 --> 00:15:11,996 Speaker 1: of the gender pay gap, and it's eighty cents. The 255 00:15:12,036 --> 00:15:14,236 Speaker 1: wealth gap, which is what we keep and what we 256 00:15:14,316 --> 00:15:17,116 Speaker 1: have is thirty something since to a man's dollar and 257 00:15:17,196 --> 00:15:20,316 Speaker 1: going in the wrong direction. You've used the phrase, and 258 00:15:20,396 --> 00:15:22,796 Speaker 1: forgive me if you're about to get there. You used 259 00:15:22,796 --> 00:15:26,796 Speaker 1: the phrase investing gap. What's the investing gap? Well, there 260 00:15:26,796 --> 00:15:30,516 Speaker 1: are two ways that we have built wealth in this 261 00:15:30,596 --> 00:15:34,356 Speaker 1: country over time, right. One is real estate, in buying 262 00:15:34,396 --> 00:15:36,356 Speaker 1: real estate, and the other is investing in the stock market. 263 00:15:36,716 --> 00:15:39,356 Speaker 1: And when I look at this and said, well, how 264 00:15:39,356 --> 00:15:42,556 Speaker 1: do we close this gap? Right, A lot of people 265 00:15:42,556 --> 00:15:45,476 Speaker 1: are working on the pay gap, but this investing gap, 266 00:15:45,836 --> 00:15:48,636 Speaker 1: where women keep the majority of their money in cash, 267 00:15:49,396 --> 00:15:52,996 Speaker 1: is costing women hundreds of thousands, some women millions of 268 00:15:53,036 --> 00:15:56,836 Speaker 1: dollars over the course their lives. This is the issue. Ah, well, 269 00:15:56,916 --> 00:16:00,156 Speaker 1: let me turn around. Yep, So you touched on in passing. 270 00:16:00,276 --> 00:16:03,356 Speaker 1: But you just said women keep the majority of their 271 00:16:03,396 --> 00:16:06,796 Speaker 1: wealth in cash. Yeah? About that? Like, is this this 272 00:16:06,916 --> 00:16:09,916 Speaker 1: thing you knew before? Did you discover that this period? 273 00:16:10,356 --> 00:16:13,436 Speaker 1: So there were things I knew, So I sort of 274 00:16:13,516 --> 00:16:15,876 Speaker 1: knew women didn't invest as men as much as men do. 275 00:16:15,996 --> 00:16:19,356 Speaker 1: What I really knew, having run Merrill and Smith Barney, 276 00:16:19,636 --> 00:16:23,676 Speaker 1: is that women leave the financial advisor they and their 277 00:16:23,676 --> 00:16:26,876 Speaker 1: spouse have in the year after their partner's death or 278 00:16:26,916 --> 00:16:28,676 Speaker 1: in the year after a divorce, at a rate of 279 00:16:28,756 --> 00:16:32,676 Speaker 1: eighty to ninety. So I knew that men are very 280 00:16:32,676 --> 00:16:35,756 Speaker 1: happy with their financial advisor, but women leave. What I 281 00:16:35,916 --> 00:16:39,316 Speaker 1: also knew is the industry is aware of this. The 282 00:16:39,436 --> 00:16:47,236 Speaker 1: industry's narrative around this, which I accepted, is well, it's 283 00:16:47,236 --> 00:16:51,196 Speaker 1: because women are risk averse. It's because women aren't as 284 00:16:51,236 --> 00:16:55,236 Speaker 1: good with money. It's because men enjoy investing more. It's 285 00:16:55,276 --> 00:16:58,476 Speaker 1: because women need more financial education. In other words, it's 286 00:16:58,476 --> 00:17:02,516 Speaker 1: her fault and everything we as an industry do. The 287 00:17:02,596 --> 00:17:06,876 Speaker 1: products we offer are super. They're super. Women just have 288 00:17:06,996 --> 00:17:11,076 Speaker 1: this issue. Okay, so let's put together a marketing plan. 289 00:17:11,836 --> 00:17:15,476 Speaker 1: Let's market at women and tell them they should invest in. 290 00:17:15,796 --> 00:17:18,796 Speaker 1: I said that, You know, I didn't quite happen that 291 00:17:18,876 --> 00:17:20,596 Speaker 1: day with the mask era, but as I sort of 292 00:17:20,636 --> 00:17:25,956 Speaker 1: process through it will wait a minute, maybe maybe that's 293 00:17:25,996 --> 00:17:28,916 Speaker 1: what is going on. But maybe in an industry where 294 00:17:29,356 --> 00:17:31,676 Speaker 1: ninety eight percent of mutual fund dollars are managed by 295 00:17:31,676 --> 00:17:34,916 Speaker 1: men and ninety nine percent of investment dollars are owned 296 00:17:35,116 --> 00:17:37,316 Speaker 1: and managed to companies owned by men and eighty six 297 00:17:37,356 --> 00:17:40,316 Speaker 1: percent of financial advisors, and maybe they built a business 298 00:17:40,316 --> 00:17:44,396 Speaker 1: for themselves. What if we center instead on women. What 299 00:17:44,516 --> 00:17:47,356 Speaker 1: if that's what we build and that was the genesis 300 00:17:47,396 --> 00:17:50,956 Speaker 1: of ls. Why don't we change the underlying product to 301 00:17:50,996 --> 00:17:54,876 Speaker 1: take into account the thousands of different needs women have 302 00:17:55,156 --> 00:18:01,156 Speaker 1: that you know the industry isn't. So that's the big idea, 303 00:18:01,236 --> 00:18:04,996 Speaker 1: But how does it actually work? What specific problems do 304 00:18:05,036 --> 00:18:08,116 Speaker 1: you have to solve to build an investing firm for women? 305 00:18:08,676 --> 00:18:19,756 Speaker 1: That's up in a minute. Now back to the show. 306 00:18:20,436 --> 00:18:23,876 Speaker 1: In some ways, lavest is pretty straightforward. You can join 307 00:18:23,916 --> 00:18:25,996 Speaker 1: for a few dollars a month, they help you invest 308 00:18:26,036 --> 00:18:29,036 Speaker 1: in low cost ETFs, or if you have more money 309 00:18:29,036 --> 00:18:31,316 Speaker 1: to manage, you can pay higher fees and get a 310 00:18:31,356 --> 00:18:34,796 Speaker 1: financial advisor. But of course there is this big twist. 311 00:18:35,476 --> 00:18:39,196 Speaker 1: Lavest is for women, and part of that is branding 312 00:18:39,276 --> 00:18:42,356 Speaker 1: and marketing, but part of it is that they actually 313 00:18:42,396 --> 00:18:47,396 Speaker 1: make different investment recommendations based on gender. I asked Sally 314 00:18:47,476 --> 00:18:49,916 Speaker 1: how that part works. If you have a man and 315 00:18:49,916 --> 00:18:52,796 Speaker 1: a woman with the same income, same net worth, same 316 00:18:52,836 --> 00:18:56,916 Speaker 1: investing goals, why do you need different investing strategies? She 317 00:18:57,156 --> 00:19:04,396 Speaker 1: lives longer than he does, she earns less, or her 318 00:19:04,516 --> 00:19:07,236 Speaker 1: salary trajectory. From the point if you're saying they both 319 00:19:07,276 --> 00:19:09,796 Speaker 1: are earning the same, her salary trajector will be lower 320 00:19:09,836 --> 00:19:13,756 Speaker 1: and her salar will peak sooner. All things being equal, 321 00:19:13,796 --> 00:19:17,316 Speaker 1: then some things have to be different. One thing could 322 00:19:17,356 --> 00:19:21,396 Speaker 1: be that we give her a portfolio with more risk 323 00:19:21,436 --> 00:19:23,876 Speaker 1: in it because she can afford to take that risk 324 00:19:23,996 --> 00:19:27,436 Speaker 1: because of her longer life. But another change could be 325 00:19:27,516 --> 00:19:30,676 Speaker 1: that she invests more. Right, she invests, I mean a 326 00:19:30,756 --> 00:19:34,196 Speaker 1: higher percentage of her exactly right, that's exactly right. So 327 00:19:34,356 --> 00:19:38,476 Speaker 1: and it depends on what she's comfortable with. Our solutions 328 00:19:38,476 --> 00:19:41,756 Speaker 1: are highly customized, so she can do that back and forth. So, yes, 329 00:19:42,356 --> 00:19:46,196 Speaker 1: there is that core difference in the algorithm based on gender, 330 00:19:46,796 --> 00:19:49,916 Speaker 1: but there are a thousand other small things in the 331 00:19:49,996 --> 00:19:53,636 Speaker 1: product that are different. One of the things we learned 332 00:19:54,516 --> 00:19:58,876 Speaker 1: is men will if they see jargon in an investing flow, 333 00:19:59,596 --> 00:20:05,436 Speaker 1: they will oftentimes keep going. Women will stop oftentimes and say, WHOA, 334 00:20:05,556 --> 00:20:08,796 Speaker 1: that seems important. So what we discovered is in the 335 00:20:09,116 --> 00:20:12,196 Speaker 1: on the onboarding, you ask a man is risk tolerance? 336 00:20:12,276 --> 00:20:15,036 Speaker 1: He's not sure. He takes an educated guest and continues. 337 00:20:15,236 --> 00:20:18,716 Speaker 1: She stops and leaves. Oh, I've got to figure that out. 338 00:20:18,836 --> 00:20:22,956 Speaker 1: So we spent a couple of years doing deep research, 339 00:20:23,676 --> 00:20:28,076 Speaker 1: finding those little points of friction, little points of friction 340 00:20:28,116 --> 00:20:31,476 Speaker 1: along the way to make the experience feel effortless. So 341 00:20:31,636 --> 00:20:36,476 Speaker 1: you start the company, women are investing with you. You 342 00:20:36,556 --> 00:20:39,756 Speaker 1: have well at this point you have a billion, more 343 00:20:39,756 --> 00:20:42,956 Speaker 1: than a billion dollars under management. Then yeah, one point four, 344 00:20:43,076 --> 00:20:47,796 Speaker 1: one point five. And then at some point, not that 345 00:20:47,876 --> 00:20:49,756 Speaker 1: long ago, you have to raise a Series B. Right, 346 00:20:49,796 --> 00:20:52,396 Speaker 1: you want to raise more money to keep the company. 347 00:20:54,636 --> 00:20:57,596 Speaker 1: A lot of people say, why, blah, what tell me 348 00:20:57,636 --> 00:21:00,996 Speaker 1: about why do you hate it's terrible Series B? Just 349 00:21:00,996 --> 00:21:04,476 Speaker 1: to be clear, it means raising more venture capital funding, right, basically, yea, 350 00:21:05,356 --> 00:21:10,636 Speaker 1: why what? Why so bad? Well, you may have heard 351 00:21:11,796 --> 00:21:17,516 Speaker 1: the research that says that women, despite women, run startups 352 00:21:17,516 --> 00:21:22,196 Speaker 1: delivering higher returns, and men run startups despite that, women 353 00:21:22,356 --> 00:21:26,156 Speaker 1: raise just want you know, four or five percent of 354 00:21:26,236 --> 00:21:33,596 Speaker 1: venture dollars and Series B later stage call it one percent? Okay, 355 00:21:34,276 --> 00:21:38,716 Speaker 1: so even less so the gap between what women founded 356 00:21:38,756 --> 00:21:41,996 Speaker 1: companies and men founded companies, It actually gets bigger once 357 00:21:42,036 --> 00:21:45,476 Speaker 1: the companies are up and running, yep, which you think 358 00:21:45,476 --> 00:21:50,636 Speaker 1: it wouldn't because if the returns and the numbers are there. 359 00:21:50,636 --> 00:21:54,596 Speaker 1: Why not? But it's that's a long couple glasses of 360 00:21:54,596 --> 00:21:58,556 Speaker 1: wine about gendered expectations and all the all the things 361 00:21:59,036 --> 00:22:01,036 Speaker 1: you have called this. I don't know if you made 362 00:22:01,076 --> 00:22:03,276 Speaker 1: this up, but I saw it in connection you did. 363 00:22:03,516 --> 00:22:06,396 Speaker 1: Did you make up the phrase series B cliff? I 364 00:22:06,436 --> 00:22:09,036 Speaker 1: didn't know that I did, but then somebody told me 365 00:22:09,196 --> 00:22:10,876 Speaker 1: I did, and then I googled it and like, I 366 00:22:10,916 --> 00:22:12,996 Speaker 1: think I made that up. And so just to be clear, 367 00:22:13,156 --> 00:22:16,276 Speaker 1: what is the series B cliff? So there is today 368 00:22:16,676 --> 00:22:19,836 Speaker 1: a fair amount of capital coming in to fund women 369 00:22:20,076 --> 00:22:23,076 Speaker 1: startup CEOs. Seed stage that's when you have just the 370 00:22:23,076 --> 00:22:26,516 Speaker 1: PowerPoint presentation. Series A that's when you raise the first 371 00:22:26,556 --> 00:22:28,996 Speaker 1: real chunk of money. Then Series B is when you 372 00:22:29,036 --> 00:22:31,956 Speaker 1: tend to raise more and the company's product market fit 373 00:22:32,036 --> 00:22:35,396 Speaker 1: has been proven. You know, things aren't perfect, but you've 374 00:22:35,476 --> 00:22:38,476 Speaker 1: you've got a real business here. You've you're motoring along. 375 00:22:38,996 --> 00:22:42,516 Speaker 1: You would think Series B women would raise more because 376 00:22:42,556 --> 00:22:46,636 Speaker 1: the numbers are there, but I hypothesize there are fewer 377 00:22:46,996 --> 00:22:49,156 Speaker 1: people on the other side of the table venture. There's 378 00:22:49,196 --> 00:22:50,916 Speaker 1: a fair amount of capital coming in at seed in 379 00:22:50,996 --> 00:22:55,116 Speaker 1: series A women funding women, They're they're really much fewer 380 00:22:55,356 --> 00:23:00,556 Speaker 1: women writing the big checks, writing the big Series B checks. Yeah, 381 00:23:00,596 --> 00:23:04,436 Speaker 1: and so I still found even at Series B, even 382 00:23:04,516 --> 00:23:07,236 Speaker 1: with the numbers, and the numbers were good, the payback 383 00:23:07,356 --> 00:23:09,676 Speaker 1: was within it. You know, every marketing all we spent, 384 00:23:09,716 --> 00:23:13,116 Speaker 1: the payback was took eight months. Is former CFO you 385 00:23:13,196 --> 00:23:16,756 Speaker 1: do that all day long. But what I found was 386 00:23:16,796 --> 00:23:21,316 Speaker 1: I still got well, but don't their husbands and well, 387 00:23:21,596 --> 00:23:23,596 Speaker 1: you know, your numbers are good, but they're going to 388 00:23:23,636 --> 00:23:25,916 Speaker 1: get worse because you're going to scale through your early 389 00:23:25,916 --> 00:23:28,756 Speaker 1: adopters because your target market. I mean, like, how many 390 00:23:28,756 --> 00:23:31,196 Speaker 1: women really want to invest? I'm like pretty much. I 391 00:23:31,236 --> 00:23:34,676 Speaker 1: think all of them should be. And you still you 392 00:23:34,796 --> 00:23:38,036 Speaker 1: still get the if what if Fidelity gets in? You're like, 393 00:23:38,116 --> 00:23:40,956 Speaker 1: the market's plenty big, plenty big, right, there are plenty 394 00:23:40,996 --> 00:23:44,556 Speaker 1: of multi billion dollar wealth tech companies serving man. Yeah, 395 00:23:44,796 --> 00:23:48,836 Speaker 1: I don't know. So the Series B is tough. So 396 00:23:48,876 --> 00:23:50,876 Speaker 1: when you ask why did you make a face when 397 00:23:50,956 --> 00:23:54,156 Speaker 1: I talked about raising your Series B, that is why. 398 00:23:54,196 --> 00:23:57,676 Speaker 1: That is why, Because the amount of time and just 399 00:23:57,876 --> 00:24:01,516 Speaker 1: pain is tremendous. And so what happened in the end, 400 00:24:01,916 --> 00:24:03,356 Speaker 1: I mean that was not that long ago that you 401 00:24:03,396 --> 00:24:05,356 Speaker 1: were setting out to raise this money right. That was 402 00:24:05,556 --> 00:24:08,636 Speaker 1: earlier this year, more or less we it was it 403 00:24:08,756 --> 00:24:12,396 Speaker 1: was last year and then into early this year, and 404 00:24:12,916 --> 00:24:16,596 Speaker 1: the women came to the rescue. It was the damnedest 405 00:24:16,596 --> 00:24:20,836 Speaker 1: thing I've ever seen. We were out raising money. We 406 00:24:20,996 --> 00:24:24,756 Speaker 1: got a great strategic but you know, sort of a 407 00:24:24,876 --> 00:24:26,756 Speaker 1: bank like, oh, we love what you're doing, we love 408 00:24:26,836 --> 00:24:29,956 Speaker 1: to learn with you. We got an investment, we got 409 00:24:29,996 --> 00:24:33,036 Speaker 1: it priced, so we had sort of the structure in place. 410 00:24:33,076 --> 00:24:36,116 Speaker 1: And then I had a woman call me from Ada 411 00:24:36,116 --> 00:24:38,396 Speaker 1: on the West coast, never met her before, and she said, 412 00:24:38,436 --> 00:24:42,316 Speaker 1: I heard from Bump Up Up that y'all are raising money. 413 00:24:43,356 --> 00:24:46,716 Speaker 1: I don't have enough. I'm an early stage investor. I 414 00:24:46,756 --> 00:24:50,116 Speaker 1: can't reach her minimums. But let me make a proposal. 415 00:24:50,156 --> 00:24:53,036 Speaker 1: What if I pull together my network of women and 416 00:24:53,196 --> 00:24:57,436 Speaker 1: we invest together and what's called a special purpose sp 417 00:24:57,716 --> 00:25:01,636 Speaker 1: special purpose vehicle? But what if we do that? And 418 00:25:01,676 --> 00:25:03,996 Speaker 1: I'm like sure? And she said, I think we can 419 00:25:04,076 --> 00:25:07,796 Speaker 1: raise X million dollars for you, and they did. And 420 00:25:07,796 --> 00:25:11,476 Speaker 1: then someone in that network said, I've got a network 421 00:25:11,516 --> 00:25:15,036 Speaker 1: of my colleagues and friends who love what y'all or 422 00:25:15,076 --> 00:25:16,876 Speaker 1: what have I pulled together? And then someone of that's 423 00:25:17,036 --> 00:25:19,636 Speaker 1: what have I pulled together and then along Cam Gangels 424 00:25:20,196 --> 00:25:23,316 Speaker 1: Gay investors. What have we pulled together? And we brought 425 00:25:23,356 --> 00:25:27,836 Speaker 1: in hundreds of new investors through these special purpose vehicles 426 00:25:28,316 --> 00:25:32,196 Speaker 1: and sort of found that in between place between institutional 427 00:25:32,236 --> 00:25:36,076 Speaker 1: dollars and crowdfunding where you know, you can't really raise 428 00:25:36,276 --> 00:25:39,356 Speaker 1: enough in order to raise a fifty three million dollars 429 00:25:39,436 --> 00:25:43,796 Speaker 1: Series B investment and just buck every trend that was 430 00:25:43,836 --> 00:25:47,996 Speaker 1: out there gives me chilling. I've got chills. I'm chilling. 431 00:25:48,236 --> 00:25:55,116 Speaker 1: I'm chilled. Good, I know, I know. Okay, briefly, what's 432 00:25:55,196 --> 00:25:56,956 Speaker 1: the next hard thing you want to do that you 433 00:25:56,996 --> 00:26:02,996 Speaker 1: haven't done yet? Get all of us to profitability. We 434 00:26:04,676 --> 00:26:07,436 Speaker 1: have reached what I think of escape velocity. We've proven 435 00:26:07,716 --> 00:26:13,356 Speaker 1: the model, we've proven product market fit. We understand what 436 00:26:13,436 --> 00:26:17,876 Speaker 1: it takes the issue with these wealth tech companies is 437 00:26:17,876 --> 00:26:20,556 Speaker 1: they take a while to become profitable. You know, people 438 00:26:20,756 --> 00:26:23,756 Speaker 1: come and they are with you for five years, ten years, 439 00:26:23,756 --> 00:26:26,516 Speaker 1: twenty years, thirty years. So it's not like selling a 440 00:26:26,556 --> 00:26:28,916 Speaker 1: T shirt where you get all the revenue upfront. The 441 00:26:28,996 --> 00:26:32,916 Speaker 1: revenue emerges over time and so you go now and 442 00:26:32,956 --> 00:26:34,836 Speaker 1: then they make more money and they pay you more 443 00:26:34,876 --> 00:26:38,156 Speaker 1: money later. So is there is there sure time when 444 00:26:38,196 --> 00:26:43,836 Speaker 1: you when you want to be profitable by fully certain 445 00:26:43,876 --> 00:26:48,196 Speaker 1: it would be really great. But the challenge with the 446 00:26:48,236 --> 00:26:51,276 Speaker 1: economics is you have to build out the whole thing 447 00:26:51,796 --> 00:26:54,836 Speaker 1: before you get revenues. It's not like, oh, I'm gonna 448 00:26:55,076 --> 00:26:59,036 Speaker 1: do a you know, sort of an early version of 449 00:26:59,236 --> 00:27:02,436 Speaker 1: information security right or compliance. You don't care if we're 450 00:27:02,476 --> 00:27:06,076 Speaker 1: not compliant, do you? And so there's a built now, right, 451 00:27:06,116 --> 00:27:10,156 Speaker 1: I mean, the sort of minimum viable product exists. So yes, 452 00:27:10,596 --> 00:27:12,836 Speaker 1: so we just need to bring in more folks, yeah, 453 00:27:13,156 --> 00:27:18,756 Speaker 1: and get more money from existing folks. In a minute, 454 00:27:18,836 --> 00:27:21,756 Speaker 1: the lightning round, including what to do when you get 455 00:27:21,756 --> 00:27:25,076 Speaker 1: fired and a red flag to look out for when 456 00:27:25,116 --> 00:27:34,356 Speaker 1: you're investing in the stock market. That's the end of 457 00:27:34,356 --> 00:27:37,556 Speaker 1: the ads. Now we're going back to the show. Let's 458 00:27:37,596 --> 00:27:40,876 Speaker 1: close with the lightning round. What's one piece of advice 459 00:27:40,916 --> 00:27:45,396 Speaker 1: you'd give to somebody when they get fired. It is 460 00:27:45,396 --> 00:27:47,636 Speaker 1: the best day of your life. You just don't know 461 00:27:47,676 --> 00:27:51,756 Speaker 1: it yet, and it's your job now to find the 462 00:27:51,836 --> 00:27:54,956 Speaker 1: opportunities that are out there that sometimes come by you 463 00:27:55,676 --> 00:27:58,316 Speaker 1: and you don't even see them, and take advantage of them. 464 00:27:58,356 --> 00:28:01,356 Speaker 1: Success will look different, but it can be even better. 465 00:28:02,476 --> 00:28:05,636 Speaker 1: Makes me want to get fired? Well, if people don't 466 00:28:05,676 --> 00:28:07,996 Speaker 1: want you know, but if people don't want you there, 467 00:28:08,116 --> 00:28:09,916 Speaker 1: you don't want to be there. I just not as 468 00:28:10,316 --> 00:28:11,876 Speaker 1: That's a really good way to put it. I didn't 469 00:28:11,876 --> 00:28:13,196 Speaker 1: mean to be clip, but that is a really good 470 00:28:13,196 --> 00:28:16,236 Speaker 1: way to put it. I have read in other interviews 471 00:28:16,236 --> 00:28:19,076 Speaker 1: that you like to cook. I also like to cook. 472 00:28:19,596 --> 00:28:21,636 Speaker 1: I'm not fancy, but I enjoy it, and I'm always 473 00:28:21,676 --> 00:28:25,116 Speaker 1: looking for like quick ish weeknight dinners. Do you have 474 00:28:25,156 --> 00:28:31,156 Speaker 1: any tips or recent favorites. The Marcella Hassanne tomato pasta 475 00:28:31,196 --> 00:28:34,716 Speaker 1: sauce with the butter is a winner every time. It's 476 00:28:34,756 --> 00:28:37,316 Speaker 1: every time you use it with canned tomatoes is even 477 00:28:37,396 --> 00:28:40,676 Speaker 1: better than with fresh tomatoes. That's the kind of tip 478 00:28:40,756 --> 00:28:45,756 Speaker 1: I can use. I appreciate that. So Okay, So the 479 00:28:45,796 --> 00:28:49,196 Speaker 1: market is down a lot this year. I know I'm 480 00:28:49,236 --> 00:28:51,276 Speaker 1: not supposed to look. I know I'm not supposed to 481 00:28:51,316 --> 00:28:53,916 Speaker 1: pay attention. I know I'm not supposed to sell. But 482 00:28:53,996 --> 00:28:55,996 Speaker 1: how do I not do that? You got a tip 483 00:28:56,036 --> 00:28:59,796 Speaker 1: for how to do not doe it? Just don't freak out, 484 00:28:59,876 --> 00:29:03,796 Speaker 1: go for a walk, do not freak out. Presumably the 485 00:29:03,836 --> 00:29:06,436 Speaker 1: money you're investing is not money you need tomorrow. Otherwise 486 00:29:06,476 --> 00:29:08,036 Speaker 1: you need to be with Ali best because we would 487 00:29:08,036 --> 00:29:11,036 Speaker 1: have put you in a less risky portfolio if you 488 00:29:11,076 --> 00:29:14,276 Speaker 1: need it right away. So do not look, just don't 489 00:29:15,116 --> 00:29:17,996 Speaker 1: sit on your hands. Going back to your life as 490 00:29:18,036 --> 00:29:21,836 Speaker 1: an analyst, Yes, as an analyst, what was one warning 491 00:29:21,836 --> 00:29:26,236 Speaker 1: sign you never wanted to see in a company? Ah, 492 00:29:26,276 --> 00:29:31,676 Speaker 1: when they would consistently beat consensus estimates by a penny 493 00:29:32,276 --> 00:29:37,676 Speaker 1: every quarter. When you saw consistency of earnings out of 494 00:29:37,716 --> 00:29:42,236 Speaker 1: a financial services company. We talked about American General AIG. 495 00:29:42,596 --> 00:29:47,476 Speaker 1: They later blew up Wells Fargo, CONCCO City Group to 496 00:29:47,516 --> 00:29:50,876 Speaker 1: some extent. What it said is they were managing earnings 497 00:29:51,276 --> 00:29:53,916 Speaker 1: because they're just it's just not that stable, and every 498 00:29:53,916 --> 00:29:56,356 Speaker 1: one of them blew up, it's fishy. That's a fishy 499 00:29:56,396 --> 00:30:00,556 Speaker 1: sign that that's not what they say. For sure um 500 00:30:00,876 --> 00:30:08,876 Speaker 1: bitcoin or ethereum. Please ethereum because it uses less less energy, 501 00:30:09,236 --> 00:30:12,716 Speaker 1: better for the environment. One piece of advice for women 502 00:30:12,796 --> 00:30:19,676 Speaker 1: going into finance or other still male dominated fields. If 503 00:30:19,716 --> 00:30:23,076 Speaker 1: you can the company you go into, look up and 504 00:30:23,156 --> 00:30:25,596 Speaker 1: if you don't see anybody in the c suite who 505 00:30:25,676 --> 00:30:29,036 Speaker 1: reflects you, just understand it's going to be much harder 506 00:30:29,756 --> 00:30:32,716 Speaker 1: if you are the first. If you do see people 507 00:30:32,756 --> 00:30:34,636 Speaker 1: in the c suite who reflect you. It's still going 508 00:30:34,676 --> 00:30:39,596 Speaker 1: to be difficult, but your chances are much greater. What's 509 00:30:39,676 --> 00:30:41,636 Speaker 1: one piece of advice you'd give to someone trying to 510 00:30:41,676 --> 00:30:47,596 Speaker 1: solve a hard problem. Get into the zone, see what's 511 00:30:48,116 --> 00:30:52,476 Speaker 1: really work, to approach it differently than others. It hadn't 512 00:30:52,516 --> 00:30:54,876 Speaker 1: been solved in the traditional way because there's a reason 513 00:30:54,956 --> 00:30:56,756 Speaker 1: for that, and so you've got to come around the 514 00:30:56,836 --> 00:30:59,636 Speaker 1: back or of the side in order to get there. 515 00:31:05,556 --> 00:31:10,076 Speaker 1: Sally Crocheck is founder and CEO of Elves. Today's show 516 00:31:10,316 --> 00:31:13,556 Speaker 1: was edited by Robert Smith, produced by Edith Russolo, and 517 00:31:13,716 --> 00:31:17,436 Speaker 1: engineered by Amanda K. Wall. I'm Jacob Goldstein, and we'll 518 00:31:17,436 --> 00:31:20,076 Speaker 1: be back next week with another episode of What's Your Pap? 519 00:31:20,836 --> 00:31:21,676 Speaker 1: Happy Thanksgiving