WEBVTT - Down and Dirty 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.840 This is a production of Journalista Podcast LLC and iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.480 They are the moral equal of our founding fathers and 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:16.680 the brave men and women of the French Resistance. 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:18.440 We cannot turn. 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:20.840 Away from them for the struggle here. 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:23.800 Smuggle. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:28.400 Here is not right versus left, It is right versus wrong. 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:38.080 Welcome back to the Journalista Podcast. That was President Reagan 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:42.600 comparing the Nicaraguan contrast to our founding fathers. I think 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:48.639 George Washington just turned over in his grave. This episode 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:52.080 is about terror as it pertains to Central America in 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.720 the eighties. Who did it, where it came from, who 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.800 funded it, and who bore the brunt of the evil 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:03.040 that was unleashed, told primarily through the eyes of two journalists. 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:06.800 You already know Cookie, but you're about to meet one 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.560 of the rising stars of CBS News. Boy does she 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:14.800 have a story to tell. But first, Cookie makes an 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:16.080 insidious discovery. 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:20.840 You worked with Larry Doyle and you worked with Richard Wagner. 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:22.880 You were the krem de la creb. 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:28.280 They were both highly respected in their field. They had 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:33.200 seen it all everywhere in the world. And by the way, 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:37.160 rest in peace Richard Wagner. He was a wonderful, wonderful 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:41.360 correspondent to work with. So I think we're on a junket. 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:46.120 We're heading to the jungles for something, some story, or 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.880 we're just looking for a story. We had several vehicles 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.840 in our convoy and then all of a sudden, in 0:01:53.960 --> 0:02:00.560 between two of the vehicles, a mortar blows up. Exit 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:05.480 the vehicles, get in the dirt and start crawling. We're 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.520 whispering to each other because we don't know where the 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:13.000 enemy is, who was responsible for the mortar attack, And 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.360 all of a sudden I hear on the side of 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.320 me some soldier whispering. 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.880 Cookie, Cookie, is that you? 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.520 And Richard Wagner and Larry Doyle both turn around in 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.440 the dirt look at me, and Richard Wagner says, I 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:36.000 cannot believe that someone knows you right here where we are. 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:41.280 This soldier helped guide us to safety. We eventually got 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.519 back to our vehicles to continue. 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:45.200 On our junket. 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.480 We took him back with us, so we sort of 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.280 saved him from whatever was going on in that mortar 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.960 attack because a few more mortars went off, but we 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.600 got out safely. And if I'm not mistaken, I think 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.360 it was this guy. He was a Sandinista soldier, not 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.840 very educated, probably a grunt doing grunt work. 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:09.720 Had come across a book. 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.440 It was in English, and he really didn't know what 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.240 it meant. He says, I have something. I don't know 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.120 if it means anything, but I'd like to give it 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:19.560 to you. 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:21.440 Can you tell me what it means? 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.560 And so I'm reading it, and I'm like on the 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.160 inside freaking out. 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.160 I'm acting like it's no big deal. 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.480 I turned to Richard Wagner and I said to him, 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:35.320 can you look at this and confirm what I think 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:39.040 it is? So Richard's reading it and I could see 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:43.000 He's getting the same visceral reaction that I did. And 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:47.720 he says, this is a goddamn CIA torture manual. 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.200 The manual was compiled in nineteen eighty three by a 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.400 CIA advisor to the Contra rebels, instructing them and the 0:03:56.480 --> 0:04:01.880 techniques of political assassination, guerrilla warfare, and torture. According to 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:05.800 the Washington Post, US Army intelligence manuals were used to 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:11.640 train Latin American military officers advocating the use of executions, torture, blackmail, 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:15.680 and other forms of coercion. The same brutal techniques used 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.719 successfully by Honduran and Salvadoran desk squads. 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:24.480 What it was, basically was a manual that the CIA 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.919 had put out, obviously, you know, hush hush, teaching them 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:33.920 how to torture Sandinistas so they could stop them from 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.880 going over to the Sandinista side and get them to 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:38.760 come over to the contryside. 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:39.760 It was horrific. 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:44.480 It was a how to peeling off faces, peeling off 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:48.240 the soles of feet, beheading, putting the head on a stake. 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:50.560 It was a torture manual. 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:52.440 What's the purpose of that? 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:58.000 To create terror among the civilians and even probably to 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.520 some of the soldiers to come to our side, come 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:03.760 to our way of taking This is. 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.560 What President Reagan had to say about the CIA manual. 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.200 Mister Reagan said the dispute over a manual on guerrilla 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:14.400 warfare prepared for Nicaraguan rebels by the Central Intelligence Agency 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.719 was quote much ado about nothing. I have had some 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.320 information on it and have been assured that there's not 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.160 one word in there that refers to assassination. 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.360 By the way, anyone who's listening to this, you can 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:32.039 actually access it online. Really, yes, it's available online. I'm 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:32.840 just telling them right now. 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:34.520 Can I say I did not know that? 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:41.400 Yeah, So America was teaching torture and terror not totally surprising. 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.080 We had similar revelations revealed during the insanity following the 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:50.240 attack on nine to eleven in Iraq and Afghanistan. Cookie 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.760 introduces us to the amazing Jane Wallace, former CBS news 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.200 correspondent who finds another piece of the puzzle quite by accident. 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:03.200 Jane Wallace was an extraord is an extraordinary person. She 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:07.160 was on air talent, whether it be morning news, evening news, 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:11.360 weekend news, West fifty seventh, she did it all. She 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:16.239 was CBS's golden girl. She was someone you could rely 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.839 on in battle, in the hard times. You knew she 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:25.760 had your back. She was funny, she was brilliant. She 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.680 was a grunt, which she needed to be a grunt. 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.880 She got down and dirty when she needed to get 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:36.240 down and dirty. She was never a prima donna. The 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:41.440 crews loved her, the suits loved her. She was one 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:42.520 of us. 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.360 Jane wanted to go to Old Salvador, but the CBS 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:48.320 patriarchy had other ideas. 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.320 I had to fight to get sent to Central America 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:55.040 by CBS because I was a girl. I was supposed 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.000 to go to Salvador and then at the last minute 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:00.320 somebody says, oh, no, you're going to Honduras treat me. 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.839 But El Salvador was because I couldn't imagine. I just 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.280 could not imagine any place where they would actually murder 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:08.600 and rape nuns. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.160 It is reported today from L Salvador that four Americans 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.640 have been killed there. This was the first time that 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.800 Americans seem to have been singled out by a desk squad. 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.400 They were shot execution style bullets to the back of 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:22.840 the head. 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.840 Later, their bodies were found in a shallow grave. 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.320 The New York Times said this about the crime. 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.560 The churchwomen were arrested after two of them went to 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.680 Como Lapa International Airport to meet the other two who 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.800 were arriving on a flight from Nicaragua. After members of 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.520 the security corps took the women to a remote location, 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:44.280 they were given the order quote unquote to liquidate them, 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.960 to kill them. Robert White, who was the American ambassador 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.160 to L Salvador at the time of the killing, said, 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.560 when the act was done, I knew immediately it was 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:54.760 the military. 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.560 That would be the same military funded and supplied by 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:58.840 the United States of America. 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.360 Remember being stunned in my early twenties, I covered it 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:05.640 as part of a local news story in New York. 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:10.360 I just honestly couldn't imagine the kind of evil that 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.600 would murder and rape nuns and then toss them by 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.640 the side of a road. But that was Salvador. I 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.240 didn't come into Honduras with any preconceptions except I'd rather 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:24.360 be in El Salvador. And then it turned out any 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:29.200 information that was really to be had about Nicaragua or 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.400 information about what was going on in Central America usually 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:37.520 originated in Honduras, which I found out by accident by 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.120 having been stuck there, because they thought they'd put the 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.280 girl where nothing was going on. There is no war there, 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.680 allegedly there. It's just a country. You get there and 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:48.960 it's like, well, for a country with no war, there's 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.400 sure a lot of people who look like professional warriors 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.200 or something. I mean, it was supposed to be a 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:00.160 civilian country, and they sent me to Honduras because they 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:05.880 assumed nothing was happening there. Okay, we'll let her go, 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:08.920 we'll shut her up, and we're sending her to the 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:14.719 backwater of history. So I end up in Honduras. You 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:18.480 could smell it in retrospect. You could just smell it 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:20.800 the minu you got on the ground in this country. 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:22.640 What was going on in front of your eyes and 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:27.000 what was supposed to be happening did not match. And 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.480 so I get off a plane. I've never done anything 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.240 like this. I just bugged them to go. But no, 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.800 it is a very sleepy I mean, Honduras is the 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.880 original Banana Republic. The banana companies ran the country. It 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.240 was a piece of real estate basically claimed by various 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:48.920 people over the years, but a soulless backwater and I 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:57.040 land and Jesus, there's just way too many beefy Americans 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.360 in type T shirts who are a foot taller than 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.360 the locals. Even if they tried to dress the same 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.439 way and they couldn't even button those local shirts, they 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.600 stood out. And there's too many of them. Okay, So 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:13.800 you're saying there's some indigenous band of fighters that's on 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.440 the border out there, who's booking all the rooms over 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.600 there at the big hotel. Because it didn't match. Right 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:24.160 off the top. No, it just screamed spooks. And if 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.560 you did something so bold to say, oh, excuse me, 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.520 where are you from Ohio? What are you doing here? 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:33.400 You never got a straight answer out of anyone, and 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.800 it was just really smelly off the top. It took 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:38.760 me a while to for you this out, but someone 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.440 finally told me that that Honduran set up was the 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:46.880 third largest CIA station in the world, the second largest 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:50.760 outside of Moscow. I'm sorry, in this country, what are 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.400 we doing here? Exactly? Because I'm asking that question because 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.640 there's too many beefy white guys and nobody will tell 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:57.360 you what they do for a living. And oh, by 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.520 the way, what industry do we have here? Exactly? Sides 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:07.320 government propaganda and dirty wars. The contrasts had been formed 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:12.240 out of the old Samosa horses, and those guys were 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:18.840 seriously bad news, these alleged fighters, even before the big 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:24.000 Regan showdown with them. These guys were, as the kids say, now, sus. 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:28.880 These guys were sus from Jump Street. They were dubious. 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:33.240 No one ever walked in the room and said these upstanding, 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:37.600 fine guys who are clean soldiers from No one ever 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:41.000 said that about the contrast. Nothing's ever established as a truth. 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:45.200 It's always spongy, it's always moving and the guys who 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.480 fronted for the contrast in Tagusi Galpa. What a name 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.720 for a city, huh. They just weren't real. There was 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.280 sort of dark clouds hanging around those guys, and they 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:59.560 had this guy fronting the PR and Tagusikalpa. He wasn't 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:03.000 a fighter. He certainly was not a believer in anything. 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.959 The whole operation in Honduras was suspect, and so early 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:12.880 in my time of covering it, somebody had leaked the manual, 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.679 the torture manual that was part of the training of 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:21.120 the contrace. Why was anybody training people in torture? What's 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.760 this about? Aren't we supposed to be done with these tactics, 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:26.880 you know? And we were supposed to have been done 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.760 with those tactics. You know. America brought some real good 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:31.040 imports to that place. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.480 The Contras were being trained and supplied in Honduras by 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:39.800 the CIA and leaders of the Honduran death squads. 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.760 I didn't know what to think. I was so rude, 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:47.120 but I was also young and tired and hot and 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.400 naive to just be direct. Made an appointment. I got 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.680 some time with the PR guy for the embassy, and 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.480 I walked into his office on the embassy grounds, closed 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.240 his door and said, yes, I'm Jane Wallis for CBS News. 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:05.600 What the fuck is going on in this country? And 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.800 he burst into laughter. He'd never had anybody be that direct, 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.839 and he knew I was smelling exactly what they were 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:16.320 trying to cover up all over town. And that was 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.760 the beginning of my time in Honduras and the beginning 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:23.320 of my time in Central America, because virtually everything the 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.080 Americans were doing that they didn't belong doing was headquartered 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:33.120 in Honduras and done against Nicaragua or through Salvador. 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.280 Certainly the worst kept secret in Central America, that's for. 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.960 Sure, you're kidding, and for good reason. They were just 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.840 so obvious. But it was such a backwater they didn't 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:45.080 figure anybody was going to notice. 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.160 But Jane noticed, and she's headed to Nicaragua to cover 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.720 one of the most brutal stories of her professional life. 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:53.760 We'll be right back. 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.920 For four years, we've been helping to wage the world's 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:13.600 worst kept secret war, training and equipping a force known 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.480 as the Contrast, who are trying to overthrow the government 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:20.200 of Nicaragua, a government the Reagan Whitehouse believes is a 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.760 communist threat in our own backyard. What kind of war 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.720 are we paying for? And who are they killing? 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.120 Welcome back? That was Jane Wallace in the opening of 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.200 an episode of the CBS news magazine West fifty seventh, 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.280 billed as a younger hipper version of sixty Minutes. The 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:42.240 Christian Science Monitor called it a ditsy, disco beat documag 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.720 for viewers with short attention spans. The New York Times 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.360 said it isn't really television, and it certainly isn't journalism. 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.240 It's as if news and entertainment fell into combat and 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.280 either side one. I don't know about all that, but 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.280 the show is popular in its coverage of Nicaragua and 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:02.400 the Iran contra affair was nothing short of astonishing. I 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:04.360 spoke with Jane about a story she did for West 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.560 fifty seventh, one of the biggest stories of her career. 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.920 But first she has something to say about Cookie. Was 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.600 there a particular story that sent you into Nicaragua or 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:15.440 did you just go there? 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.560 Oh? God, I think I just got sent there. It 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:22.000 was a horrible place to go to. The people were poor, 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:25.320 they were hungry, the country was going nowhere, and the 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:30.240 only good thing about going to Nicaragua was Cookie. She 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:36.120 was the saving grace of being in Monagua. If she'd 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.920 been what she appeared to be, sort of a party 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.320 girl and just to fix her or I'll make a 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.800 call and then I'm going to go get high, she 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:47.960 wouldn't have been Cookie. The truth is that woman knew 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:52.000 what she was doing and she was born to it 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:55.960 as a journalist. She wasn't trained to it. How CBS 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.760 got so lucky as to find and hire her, I 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.000 don't know. She was the only reason anyone could cover 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:08.040 that war. In addition to being as clever and it's 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:12.000 completely charming and tank topped and skinny and riley and 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:17.040 all of that. She knew what she was doing and 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.480 she cared. She was never going to tell you that 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.960 she didn't have to. It was unspoken. 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.560 One of the big stories that came out of your 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:32.480 tenure there was what they call the Contra atrocities story, 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.800 and it involves a lot of your colleagues and a 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:37.520 lot of people that you rolled with all the time. 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:39.560 So tell me a little bit about how this kind 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.400 of came to pass and where it went. 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:45.920 We witnessed Coultra atrocities way before the story that I'm 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:51.040 about to tell you massacres of women and children, massacres 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:56.920 of soldiers, torture techniques, so all these atrocities that we 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:01.200 had seen firsthand got But I like to call the 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:07.040 dream team. Leslie Coburn, Producer, Jane Wallace, on air talent 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:13.240 Manny Alvarez, camera crew with irv ran Hart, sound sometimes 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:17.560 George Bosa and myself. We were considered the dream team 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:21.159 at CBS. We adored each other, we worked well with 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.800 each other, and we would each of us go to 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:25.640 the ends of the earth for each other. 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:27.760 Clearly a band of brothers. 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.960 Leslie calls me and tells me, listen, we want to 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:33.760 do a contratrocity story. 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.199 We've heard about this American. 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.440 Nun that lives in again the asshole of the. 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.119 World in the jungles. 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.399 We hear that she's got a lot of stories, and 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:49.199 she's got a lot of victims that survived these atrocities 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.080 that she takes care of. She was in some remote 0:17:52.280 --> 0:18:00.080 end of the earth place called Seuna. D. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.639 Coburn is an award winning producer and journalist covering wars 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.879 with CBS, ABC and PBS's Frontline. While all accounts, the 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:12.280 best there is She's also Olivia Wilde's mom, who Cookie 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.840 first met as a toddler. In a chapter from her 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.159 book Looking for Trouble, Leslie tells us what motivated her 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:19.000 to do this story. 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.639 My intention was to get out of the Capitol and 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.080 into the remote countryside where the war was being fought. 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.879 Reports filtering out from priests and nuns suggested a systematic 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.680 use of classic terror tactics. New clinics docked with Cuban 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:36.600 medicine were blown up, Volunteers carrying vaccines into the jungle 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.879 had their throats slit. Even American nuns were kidnapped and 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.240 threatened with rape. I wanted to establish at what level 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:47.439 the tactics were sanctioned by Washington. Cookie was game. Her 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.680 translating skills were essential because she spoke the archaic peasant's 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:52.600 Spanish prevalent in the countryside. 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.440 Jane collaborated with Leslie for years on some of the 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:56.800 biggest stories of the eighties. 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:02.520 Leslie with further left than I was by entry and belief. 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.440 I didn't share that I didn't have the left right boloney, 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.680 because it turned out to be a set of choices 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.679 that didn't fit what was on the ground. Anyway, I 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:14.679 was nervous about having to do this story. I was 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.120 not anxious to do it, except that I knew there 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:21.080 was a reality there that needed to be revealed. I 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.919 knew there was ugliness, and I knew it was not 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:28.440 at all what was being touted in the States. Oh Jee, 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:33.520 freedom to give me a break. It was disillusioned very quickly. 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.040 But the Americans really needed to know what was being 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:40.680 done in their name. We were totally committed to trying 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.840 to get to the places no one else had gotten to, 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.840 to talk to people face to face, and it took 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.040 more than anybody bargained for. 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:53.320 The region had been closed off the journalists by Interior 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.800 Minister Thomas Borge because it was controlled by the contrast. 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:00.359 It was too dangerous. Leslie asked Cookie to set up 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.160 a meeting with him. 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:06.040 Cookie, Jane, and I arrived to find ourselves ushered into 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.760 a private dining room at the Officers Club with a 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:14.080 well appointed table for six. It seemed Borge, infatuated with Jane, 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.040 had thoughtfully brought two friends in toe. I was paired 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:21.280 off with a well traveled ambassador. Cookie was assigned to 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:26.040 a Rakish general. We survived this absurd lunch without disgracing ourselves. 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.680 And by the time we returned to the CBS bureau, 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:31.359 a dozen Roses were waiting for Jane. 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.800 Needless to say, they got the permission they wanted. But 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:37.360 that was the easy part. 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:41.240 If you're going to stage some lies like the Contras 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.960 are a really great All American fighting force, you stage 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.440 that line a place where no one can get to it, 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:50.320 to hold the light up to it. That's what they 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:54.679 had done. So these places were remote, isn't the word 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:58.600 for it. They were inaccessible for the most party except 0:20:58.640 --> 0:20:59.360 by Donkey. 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:01.639 Was it a long trap to get to where you 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:02.159 were going. 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.560 Everywhere we went for that story, it was a place 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.959 no one was meant to go to. The logistics in 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.560 these places were hideous. The roads were not meant to 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.960 be driven on. The vehicles had no air conditioning. It was, 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:20.639 you know, one hundred degrees with ninety eight percent humidity 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:23.480 and Monovo five about eleven thirty in the morning. I 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.520 never wanted to go to that country again as long 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:27.560 as ise life. 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.520 Their journey soon evolves into a dark Central American version 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:34.880 of planes, trains, and automobiles, except with the Russian biplane. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.040 A couple of beat up old Chevy and Paula's and 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.560 an indigenous canoe called a paponte. They spend the first 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:43.360 day driving to the last vestige of civilization they would 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:46.600 see for a couple of weeks, Rio Blanco, hooking up 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.040 with a military convoy for a couple of hours, and 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:53.199 traveling alone through the contra infested territory at night. Leslie 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:54.240 describes it like this. 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.399 Are odds of being attacked for fifty to fifty we 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:00.960 were easy pray for ambush. The thought of who was 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.760 waiting in the darkness blade my nerves. No one spoke. 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:10.040 I steadied myself, breathed deeply, and let Bonnie raate belt 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:10.840 through my headphones. 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:14.960 You go through ten flat tires in a day, you 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:18.440 couldn't count on getting anywhere. So by the time you're 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.800 rolling up somewhere, a lot has gone into having those 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:25.800 tires underneath you and any idea of where you're going. 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:28.960 So that's how we ended up taking that canoe. The 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:31.120 road stopped. What are you going to do? You take 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:33.720 a canoe and try and hitch something on the other side. 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:36.119 You can't just drive through in the car If it doesn't, 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:37.560 I mean, nothing works like that. 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:41.080 Where they are heading is so remote and inaccessible. The 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:42.960 only way to get there is through the air. 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:46.760 I've got to set up a plane, which is one 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:51.960 of these rinky dig two propeller clopboard planes that once 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:53.760 you get on you're not sure if you're going to 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:57.159 get to where you're going. And we all head to 0:22:57.160 --> 0:22:59.600 see you to meet the nun. Yeah, this is a 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:04.120 town that has no paved roads, shacks, they didn't even 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:05.040 have electricity. 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:09.119 It's hard for me to describe the kind of desolation 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:12.840 of these places, and like something was there once that 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:15.560 got ruined. All it is a difference slightly in the 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.400 vegetation or a pile of graves somewhere. 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:22.520 So we go, we meet with the nun sister something, 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:25.120 and we proceed to do our story. 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:29.160 And with that Gal, the none we spoke to first. 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:33.280 I remember sitting on her porch trying to do an interview. 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:37.639 This port was so small. I'm chewing my knees across 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:40.240 from this woman who has an equally small space because 0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:43.200