WEBVTT - Asgardians: Odin, with George O'Connor 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.840 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:15.440 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.880 is Robert Lamb. In today's episode, I chat with author 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:23.040 and illustrator George O'Connor, creator of the twelve volume Olympians 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.680 comics series. His new book, Odin is his first venture 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.680 in a new As Guardians graphic novel series, and it 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.920 is out today in all fourmats. I'd spoken with George 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.160 a couple of years back and decided at that point 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:37.239 that he would make for a great guest here on 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:39.560 Stuff to Blow Your Mind, you know, given our general 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:41.959 interest on the show here in Global myths. So it 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.159 was a real treat to get to chat with him here. Plus, 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.720 he is one of my son's favorite authors, so hopefully 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:51.280 I'm still scoring a few cool dad points here and there. 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:58.800 So without further ado, let's jump right in to the interview. Hi, George, 0:00:58.800 --> 0:00:59.480 welcome to the show. 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:00.600 Thanks thanks for having me. 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:05.679 So, the new graphic novel is Odin, the first in 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.319 your brand new as Guardians series, and this comes on 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.880 the heels of your what twelve volume Olympian series about 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:17.160 the gods of Greek mythology. Yeah, so, how did the 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.120 Olympians come together, and then how did that lead into 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:20.839 this new venture? 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.120 Oh, I mean it's it's kind of a long story 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:27.440 and there's almost like multiple different versions I could tell, 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:29.920 but you know, as a fan of your podcast, I 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:32.640 know some of the spots I should really hit. So 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:36.600 Olympians was a lifelong love. Right when I was in 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:40.800 third grade, I was involved in a special school program 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:43.000 where we kind of did project based learning where the 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.680 teacher who's headed it up, hi missus stimili if you're listening, 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.200 She would do these big project based things. We would study, 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.000 like say, we studied like Rube Goldberg for instance, as 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.120 a way of studying the history of comics and at 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.160 the same time studying like simple machines and stuff. And 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:00.640 we did a whole section on Greek mythology, and it 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:04.360 was the thing that really clicked with me. I was 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.600 the kid who drew. A lot of kids drew back then, 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.200 but that was definitely my identity. I was the kid 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.200 who drew. I like to draw like monsters and muscle 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:12.840 men and stuff. This is the age of like he 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:17.080 Man and things. I think the original Clash of the Titans, 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.960 the Ray Harryhausen was just out in theaters or had 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.079 been out, so there was a lot of young Greek 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.920 in the air. And it was a big thing for me, 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.920 partially because the stories were so not the sort of 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:32.960 thing you would be exposed to as a kid normally. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.440 They were full of like, you know, violence and sexy 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:38.959 stuff and things that like as a third grade you 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.440 were normally not allowed to look at. But because it 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.240 was like this Greek mythology thing, it was condoned. And 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.320 I was also the kid who hated being talked down 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.680 to the second I could tell an adult was like 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:52.720 talking down to me, I'm like, this person's an idiot, 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:54.720 and I don't know why I'm talking to them. So 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.000 this all just came together in this perfect mix for me, 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:01.840 and it just became a lie flowing love. And I 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:03.959 read a lot of books, like all the books I 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.320 could find about Greek mythology, and then I branched out 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.160 to other mythologies after I kind of exhausted everything in 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.920 my library, and one of the things I got into 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.840 was Norse mythology, and by that point, I think I 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.720 was induced to Greeks about like third grade. By Norse 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:21.720 mythology got into about sixth grade, and at that time, 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:27.120 I also discovered superhero comics. My mom bought me an 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.280 issue of The Mighty Thor one day when I was 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:31.920 home sick from school. Both my parents read comics, but 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.040 not They weren't like Wednesday Warriors. They didn't run to 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:36.600 the shops, but we just had a lot of comics 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:38.760 in the house, and my mom bought. 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:39.160 Me this Thor. 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:43.240 It was during the creator Walt Simonson's run, And if 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:45.840 you know your Marvel comics, you know Walt Simonson he 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.520 took you know, the Marvel comics of Thor is mythologically 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.120 not particularly accurate. You know, it was created by Stanley 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.360 and Jack Kirby and Journey to Mystery in the sixties. 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.800 But during the eighties Walt Simonson took over this book 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:03.440 as writer and and illustrator the cartoonist for it, and 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.839 he really brought the mythology back in a very accurate way. 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.960 So basically, as I was reading these mythological stories for 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.840 the first times, I'm also being exposed to these comics 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.320 that are retelling the mythology in a way that makes 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.880 sense to me. And so it plays this big role 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.960 the whole idea behind Olympians and now as Guardians is 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:29.039 it's classic superhero retellings of mythology that sounds maybe more 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.479 crass the one. I hope they come out as like, 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.080 it's not just all bam pao stuff. It's just using 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.680 the kind of storytelling techniques to like make the way 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.719 the stories came alive in my brain as a kid 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.000 seeing all these big long names and big long words 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:45.320 and stuff like. They came to life in a very 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:49.840 exciting way for me, both mythologies Greek and Norse, and 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.520 being introduced to Thor and then through that just becoming 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.880 a comic book fiend, particularly old Marvel comics and such. 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:03.080 The two were very inextra linked. Of the two mythologies, 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.520 Greek mythology was always my favor. It was my first love, 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.000 and so I've you know, that was it made sense 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:12.320 for that to be the first series I brought to 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.360 life with Olympians, which was like a twelve volume series. 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:21.080 Each one was centered on a different Olympian God. Not exhaustive. 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.080 There's too much Greek mythology to tell every myth, but 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.960 just enough to give a portrait of the goddess or 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.240 god the book was about. And I wrapped it up 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.400 with twelve books because that seemed like a good number. 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:34.600 And then I was like, I'm going to do the 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:39.520 Norse because you know, after twelve years of doing Olympians 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.760 one book a year, essentially, you know, Greek gods are 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:46.400 very beautiful and you know perfect that way, I wanted 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.279 to dress something like a little bit grittier and like 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:49.400 the Norse mythology. 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:50.960 It's like that those gods. 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.120 Are not renowned for their beauty, with a few exceptions, 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:57.200 like you know the stories like those gods as a spoiler, 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.800 they get old, they die, they get maimed, not the perfect, 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.400 all powerful beings. So it's a real exciting, fun change 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.360 of pace after over a decade working on one style mythology, 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.360 to dip my fingers into tell this other style. 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.200 Now the Yeah, the Olympian series. I was introduced to 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.960 these because my son, who's about to turn twelve, he 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.039 got really into them during the pandemic. I think maybe 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:21.799 he got him. We got him initially through the library system, 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.320 but then eventually we just had to buy them all 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:28.080 because he needed to read them over and over again. Yeah, 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:32.320 he was a he wasn't is a huge fan because 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.480 I think they fed his curiosity about Greek mythology. Well 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:39.880 also ultimately I think pushing pushing him more into other 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.200 global myths and getting him into other things like like 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.200 the novels of Rick Ryerdan and the various authors under 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:50.120 that Rick uired and presents Spanner. Yeah and yeah, I 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.240 wish I'd had some of these resources growing up, because 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.440 I feel like I had the what is it, the 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:58.200 d d Alari's Book of Greek Myths? 0:06:58.279 --> 0:06:59.840 Oh, Delaria's Book of Greek Myths? 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.480 Yes, yeah, yeah, I had that one, and I had 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.839 some like really stuffy old books of my aunts and 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:06.880 then just Clash the Titans, and those are like the 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.880 main initial resources I had for Greek mythology. 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.800 I think we probably pulled on exactly the same resources. 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.000 So I have a huge soft spot for Delaire's Book 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.120 of Greek Myths. And if you're listening at home, you 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.680 don't know this book, you probably do. It was an 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.960 oversized yellow and orange cover of like a sun God. 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.200 Every library had it, every classroom should have it. And 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.760 it was this husband wife team, the de Laires who 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:37.600 retold Greek mythology and the illustrations, like I'm obsessed with 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:38.680 this book, Like you can. 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:39.320 Even look online. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.040 There's a comic I did for The New York Times 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.520 about Dolaires because I love this book so much and 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.280 like the illustrations are some of them are so cool 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:48.560 and some of them are so. 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:51.160 Weird. 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.120 And as a kid, it was something I grappled with. 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:57.760 I'm like, I don't know what to make of this imagery, 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:01.120 and so I would redraw the myths in my own style. 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:05.000 And that's such a cornerstone of what Olympians grew out 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:08.960 of what the Delairs did that was amazing, I think, 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:13.120 is taking all the disparate threads of Greek mythology, all 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.920 these different versions of stories written over the entire Mediterranean 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:20.640 world over hundreds of years, no real connection, there's no Bible, 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:22.960 but they took it and worked it into a really 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.760 nice cohesive narrative. And that's something that I've tried to 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.720 do with both as Guardians and Olympians, to take all 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.720 these disparate stories and like it's that superhero mentality, like 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.600 if this is all in continuity, how do we make 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.760 this work? One of my pet peeves though growing up 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.880 it was those stuffy old mythology books, Like I appreciate 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.440 it as a sophisticate, a relatively sophisticated adult when you 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.080 read a Greek mythology book that's illustrated with like faux 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.439 like you know, vase painting drawings and stuff. But as 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.920 a kid, that doesn't grab you, and it's already Sometimes 0:08:57.960 --> 0:08:59.760 for some people it's a real uphill battle when you 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.199 see like Hefestos or Persephone or all these long names. 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:05.559 Some people it just it's an impenetrable wall of texts. 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.959 They just get blocked. They never get into it. 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.400 And that's such a key part of like what the 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:15.000 myths were to me was like bringing them to life 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:16.320 the way I saw them in my head, doing that 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:18.640 in my books that way, and of course Clash of 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.120 the Titans, seeing that it was just like that was 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.080 pretty mind blowing. Oh yeah, yeah, although I do have 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:25.440 a huge problem with the cracking. 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:29.720 Oh yes, because he's not from Greek mythology. 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:31.839 I was that kid. I still am that guy, clearly, 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:32.720 I'm mentioning it now. 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:37.600 Yeah. My son actually points to your Olympian series often 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:39.199 it's like this is the real stuff, this is the 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:41.080 accurate stuff. It took me a long time to get 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:45.440 him into the mcu thor movies because he would criticize it. 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.280 Constantly it's like, this is not actually the way the 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.240 mythology works, This is not what Thor is about. I 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:53.480 had to like kind of just gently bring him into 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:54.680 it more and be like, well, you know, this is 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.680 a different version. This is a like a science fiction 0:09:57.840 --> 0:09:58.880 using those characters. 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.440 Yeah, part of my original pitch for as guardians, Like 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.840 I think the first line is Thor is not Loki's brother. 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.800 Loki is Odin's blood brother. If anything, Loki is his uncle, 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:14.640 and that's always describes attention. Like the Marvel versions of 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.000 Thor and Loki and Odin all Norse mythology have so 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.679 firmly supplanted in the public consciousness any idea that people 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:24.320 have of the original, like you could just kind that's 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.320 like a controversial statement, like yeah, they're not brothers, they're 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.400 like what and just the depictions of the gods are 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:34.800 so different, especially Thor. So my book Odin is coming 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.959 out soon, Thor comes out later in the year. It's 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.400 already done, and like the Thor of myth is such 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.320 like a delightful lummis and like that was such a 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.240 fun book to do, probably the most fun I've ever 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.600 had doing a book. Is just he's this big dumb, 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.080 muscle bound brute who just like you know, he just 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.199 lives to smash things with his hammer, which I mean, 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.200 I guess some of that is similar to the mcu version. 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.160 But he's also he's no Chris Hemsworth. He's not like 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:03.400 this gorgeous blode. He's an overly muscled, like briskly haired, 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.680 redheaded guy with a beard like covered with body hair. 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.680 It's just he's just a fun dude to draw who 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:10.960 just delights in smashing. 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.520 That's going to be a fun follow up to this, 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.800 to this Odin book, which was we'll talk about like 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.520 this is a This is like a in many respects, 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:24.480 like a deeply weird grim tale. Not to say there's 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.720 no humor in it, but it leans more towards the 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:28.760 weird and the grim. 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:30.520 Yeah, it does. 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.800 I don't know if that reflects anything about my life 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.320 or just like the actual storytelling. But what I've tried 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:39.400 to do with each of these books is to paint 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:43.680 a portrait of the deity that's being featured. And the 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.640 thing that becomes very apparent when you read a series 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:52.959 of Norse myths is that Odin's overall arc, very consistent 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:58.280 is his obsession with knowledge. He's obsessed with finding out more. 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.480 And some of that is he has a sense of 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.360 like the doom that awaits all the gods, Ragnarrok coming 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.240 and he's trying to stave that off. But virtually every 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.560 myth of him is him trying to learn more and 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.920 the sacrifices he makes. This is a god who literally 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.000 plucks out his own eye for an opportunity to learn 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:20.600 more knowledge. You know, he famously hangs himself on the 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.320 tree Ignitosil in order like achieves like an out of 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.760 body experience, in order to learn more about what is 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:30.000 to come. The story ends up being very like dark 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:34.240 in a way, like exploration of like this this man 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:36.800 who is obsessed with finding out his fate so he 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:41.439 could try to stop it, and you know, spoilers, he's 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:42.440 not going to be able to. 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.120 In working with some of these wild ideas settings and 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:48.840 events for Odin, did you ever feel like you were 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:53.160 writing like a Jodorowski comic, because you know, it's pretty 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:55.719 it's pretty surreal and weird almost from the get go. 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.520 Yeah, it really that's a great way, but it's kind 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:03.080 of true, Like I was just lamenting this to my 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:05.840 partner the other day, Like some elements of Norse mythology, 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.360 they'll just drop a line that's just so weird. You're like, 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:14.000 how do I interpret this? Like, for the Norse creation 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:19.200 myth involves a giant hermaphroditic creature named Emir who exists 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:24.200 in this void between worlds, and he kind of starts 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:28.600 butting living beings out of his armpits and stuff, and 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.720 these beings eventually give birth to Odin and his brothers, 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:37.600 who then they murder Emir and builds like the entire 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.840 cosmos out of his body. And so I'm able to 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.520 say that is one thing, and it's pretty weird saying that, 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.640 but then having to craft the visual imagery to go 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.480 with that. I spent a long time trying to strike 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:53.280 the right balance between gruesome and realistic and absurd. I'll say, 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:56.000 my Emir kind of looks like the Staypuff marshmallow Man 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.120 a little bit, just floating their naked in the void. 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.079 But I mean, I feel like that's the best way 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:03.719 to handle it. 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:05.960 And I have to say I was really impressed with 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.920 how Odin comes together as a story as opposed to 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.280 just like a sequence of strange tellings and half tellings. 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.600 You know, like it really you really do bring it 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.400 together and it isn't just this like surreal you know, 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:21.880 procession of images. 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:22.360 Yeah. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:24.600 One of the things that I actually tried to structure 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.160 the episodes that start off more outlandish and bring it 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.320 more into the like the progression of the stories get 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.040 a little bit less insane in order to tell the 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:39.200 story of Odin sacrificing everything he can for more wisdom. 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.600 Another thing I tried to do with this is so 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:47.680 a little history of Norse mythology, frustratingly, as opposed to 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.400 Greek mythology, where there is enough material that has survived 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.720 from antiquity that I could probably do a book a 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:54.480 year for rest of my life and never run even 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.280 close to dry. Norse mythology, there's very little that survived 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.280 to us, and virtually every thing that did survive was 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.800 recorded in the Christian era after people stopped believing in 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.600 these gods for the most part. So you basically have 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:11.280 the poetic Eda, which is a collection of various scaldic poems, 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.440 and you have the prose Etta, which was written by 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.040 this guy named Snorri Sterlinsson, which is the best name ever. 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:21.160 And it's just this is kind of all that you 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.440 get from these two things, like there's not even much 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:30.200 art that survived. And with Snorri, he's retelling Snorri Sterlissen, 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.560 the guy who wrote the Prosetta. He's retelling some of 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.520 these scaldic poems that he was aware of and putting 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.880 his own spin on them, as you should as a storyteller. 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.640 And I find that's such a part of the experience 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.400 of reading Norse mythology that I've never seen reflected in 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.840 any other readtellings before. So, for instance, in the book Odin, 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:51.800 the main character in a sense is you the reader. 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.440 There is actually someone who is you're being. It's you know, 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.280 a rare case of second person narration, where somebody is 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.960 describing to everything you're seeing. And you walk into you 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.720 basically awake on a battlefield, and all around you see 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:09.280 all these dead norsemen who'd been slaughtered, and there's literally 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.680 carrying crows eating them. And then these these women in 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:14.880 silver come riding out of the sky on horses and 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.880 it's the Valkyries, and they're picking their spirits up, taking 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.440 them to Valhalla, and all this stuff sounds kind of familiar, 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:22.560 and we all know, like I mean, or maybe we don't, 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:25.600 but Valhalla was like the Viking equivalent of heaven. It 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.320 was a place that you went to and that was 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.720 your goal. You would die valiantly in battle, and that 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.080 was your reward. You'd go to Valhalla, this great feast 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.320 hall where there would be just like they'd give you 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.360 like mead and pork, and you'd like party all day. 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:44.800 And in the original pros Eda, there is a poem, no, 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:46.720 not a poem, it's like a piece of writing called 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.720 the guildf Beginning, which is this description of how the 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:54.160 gods came to be and who Odin was, and some 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.000 of the most famous myths. And it's only our really 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.400 account that we have of it. And it's structured in 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.760 this very odd way where it is this Swedish king 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.320 named Guildfy who has come to Valhalla, and he's being 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.800 addressed by these three kings who are seated in thrones, 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.119 one atop each other, and their names are High, just 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:18.240 as High and Third, and there's it's such a weird element. 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.720 And I'm like, when you read these stories, you get 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:24.919 to know these guys. I've never seen them include in 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.040 this So I wanted Odin to be narrated by High 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:29.960 just as High and Third to give you a feel 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:33.399 of this original text. And of course High, just as 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.320 High and Third are more than you know, and like 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.800 by the I won't reveal the spoilers when they're revealed 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:38.760 to be who they really are. 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.320 I loved High, just as High and Third, and I 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.520 have to say they reminded me quite a bit in 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.359 the book of the various like EC comics characters that 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.399 you would have YES storytellers like Crip Keeper and Old Witch, 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.520 or DC storytellers like canaan Abel. 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.320 Yeah, that was absolutely an influence of that. You know, 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.320 you go to the original version and they're a little 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.600 bit more into changeable, you don't really get a sense 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.320 of their personalities. But because I was having these three 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.840 narrators appear on frame, I wanted them to show different 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.919 aspects of the stories being told, and so you like, 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.480 for instance, I feel like the names themselves are hilarious. 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:17.800 First one is named High, He's a high king. That 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.400 makes sense. Second one is just as High. It's like, Okay, 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.080 I see you're going for a theme here. You're all equal. 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.199 Third guys, just like I'm third, It's like, what are 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.959 you doing? But just as High. I felt like he 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.040 was more snarky. He was the middle one, and I 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.919 gave him an appearance. If you look at old illuminated manuscripts, 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.480 that would be the place that we rescued these stories from. 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.320 That's the only way they were recorded. Like sometimes there's 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.000 drawings of Odin and Loki in the in the borders 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.240 that look like this, where he's almost like a clownish figure. 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:50.000 And then the character of High the first narrator to 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.280 meet his mask. They're all masked, I should say, is 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.120 based on a burial mask of an actual Viking chieftain. 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.520 And the third one he's kind of based on another 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.240 different that was recovered. He's more of a traveler figure. 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.919 They're all like giving different aspects of the personality of 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.600 the god who's being featured in this book, which is Odin. 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.600 Now you you touched on the issue with the sources. 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.240 The two ducks, right, they are sometimes described as ducks. 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.800 Yeah, that's really obscure that you found that one. 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:34.800 But yes, but yeah, I guess I was. I was 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.960 curious to hear a little bit more about the creative 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:40.880 challenges of of not only stitching together some of these 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.760 like various mysteries and the text and things that are missing, 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.800 like for instance, Odin's brothers that come up and the 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.800 just vanish. But then also, I know you you discussed 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.359 this in the Norse Code section of the book, some 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.280 of the choices you had to make visually, and you 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.800 know that where you know it's it's more about like 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.119 what can you do that is different with and like 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:04.920 your own visual storytelling, even going back through Olympians. 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:08.919 Yeah, so for those Norse Code is a section that 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:10.840 I have at the back of each of the As Guardians. 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.359 The kind of it's almost like the DVD extras or 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.600 the director's commentary for the book. I kind of go 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.159 in there. Sometimes I use to make cheap jokes, but 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.760 sometimes you just explain some of the processes behind the 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.920 different choices I made in depicting the stories. This way, 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.560 it's the answer to an Olympians. We had it as 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:31.919 the Geek Notes with it was spelled Greek with an 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:35.280 R crossed out, just kind of a way of kind 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:37.120 of like sharing a little bit more of the details 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.800 of like just the utter geekery that I find in 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:45.280 these stories. And with the challenge in doing something like 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:49.639 As Guardians is it's both a challenge and sometimes an 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:54.480 aid right, there is so many gaps in our knowledge 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:58.840 and it can be very frustrating. I was just you know, 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:04.919 there's the concept. Here's my favorite example, the concept of 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:09.000 the nine worlds of Norse mythology. So the central like 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.080