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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am

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Speaker 1: Matt and today this is the Bitcoin episode for Normies

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Speaker 1: with Marco from Whiteboard Finance.

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Speaker 2: So I'm not opposed if we start naming our episodes

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Speaker 2: in the like friends fashion right where they're like the

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Speaker 2: refrigerator episode. But honestly, it makes me think about how

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Speaker 2: last week we went all in on real estate. That's

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Speaker 2: what we talked about, but that's actually not what we're

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Speaker 2: doing today with bitcoin. That being said, we are going

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Speaker 2: to discuss how investing in bitcoin can not only be

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Speaker 2: lucrative but also just a simply balanced and healthy strategy

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Speaker 2: for investors today, and here to share how it's done

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Speaker 2: is Marco from Whiteboard Finance. So Marco he was self taught.

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Speaker 2: He started investing in the market at the age of eighteen,

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Speaker 2: back when you had to pay for trades. But then

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Speaker 2: after studying finance, working for tech startups and working in banking,

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Speaker 2: he launched his own YouTube channel, which is actually just

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Speaker 2: shy of one million subscribers, and so hopefully maybe this

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Speaker 2: episode will get him to that next milestone. But he

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Speaker 2: is an expert of all things personal finance, but we're

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Speaker 2: mainly going to focus on the future of bitcoin. We're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about the recent events that might be

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Speaker 2: responsible for it blowing up. We're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: how much bitcoin you should own, and more. Today, Marco,

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Speaker 2: thank you for joining us on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Guys, I appreciate

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Speaker 3: you inviting me on.

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Speaker 2: Of course.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you're like the mister Beast of the personal

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Speaker 1: finance based on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: All right, Well, Beast is the most entertaining person on YouTube,

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Speaker 3: and my channel is somewhere in the middle between mister

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Speaker 3: Beast and the most boring classroom you've ever sat in,

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Speaker 3: So somewhere in the middle.

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Speaker 2: All right, we guess the balance we all have to

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Speaker 2: strike here.

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Speaker 1: You start giving away millions, I think you know that

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Speaker 1: that'll probably up your numbers, just a little bit of outside.

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Speaker 2: Advice, even though you don't need it.

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Speaker 1: Our first question, though, Marco, to every guest who comes

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Speaker 1: on the show, is what's your craft beer equivalent? And

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Speaker 1: by that we mean what do you like to splurge

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Speaker 1: on in the here and now while you're diligently saving

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Speaker 1: and investing for your future.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great question. So I would say it's

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Speaker 3: two things. So one is travel, I think travel is

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Speaker 3: very important. I think the more you travel, it's kind

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Speaker 3: of like a horse with the blinders on. The more

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Speaker 3: you travel, the more those blinders are taken off, and

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Speaker 3: you can see that pretty much everyone around the world

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Speaker 3: is pretty similar and they value similar things. So I

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Speaker 3: enjoy traveling, and then I also I like grilling. So

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Speaker 3: I have two very expensive custom made grills and I

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Speaker 3: get a lot of pleasure out of them, and so

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Speaker 3: does my family and friends. So yeah, it's travel and

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Speaker 3: good food.

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Speaker 2: When are you gonna invite us over Marco? That sounds awesome?

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Speaker 4: For real, whatever you want.

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Speaker 3: I got a Pellett grill for low and slow, and

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Speaker 3: then I have an adjustable charcoal grill, so we can

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Speaker 3: do you know, hot and fast, we can do direct heat,

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Speaker 3: we can do whatever you guys want.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So this is something that Joel and I both

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Speaker 2: have taken on over the past last couple of years.

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Speaker 2: But getting into smoking meats. I literally just ate some

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Speaker 2: leftover brisket that I smoked this past weekend. What's your

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Speaker 2: favorite cut? Nice?

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Speaker 3: So for low and slow, I really like beef ribs.

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Speaker 3: So think of like Fred Flintstone when he puts the

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Speaker 3: big racked ribs in his car and it tips over

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Speaker 3: beef ribs are good, and then for more like hot

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Speaker 3: and fast.

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Speaker 4: You can't beat a good ribbi.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my gosh, we're on the same page. We

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Speaker 2: could not be more agreement. I love it. Okay, I

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Speaker 2: feel like we could like accidentally spend the next thirty

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Speaker 2: minutes talking about talking about meat. And maybe we'll say

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Speaker 2: that for the post show, but the post interview. But

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about your your personal history, Marko,

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Speaker 2: because it sounded like your financial pedigree started early, specifically

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Speaker 2: with Pokemon cards. Share how that got kicked off.

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Speaker 3: Basically, Yeah, so for reference, probably aging myself, but I

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Speaker 3: don't care.

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Speaker 4: I'm thirty six.

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Speaker 3: I was born in eighty seven, and when I was

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Speaker 3: a kid, I was probably like eleven twelve years old

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Speaker 3: in middle school when Pokemon really took off. So it

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Speaker 3: started with the video games and with the trading cards.

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Speaker 3: And then my dad actually came back from a trip

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Speaker 3: He worked for Dirt Devil, so if you guys remember

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Speaker 3: the vacuum company, so he was a mechanical engineer. He

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Speaker 3: went to Hong Kong, Shanghai, and he came back with

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Speaker 3: like all these ridiculously rare Pokemon cards. But I didn't

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Speaker 3: realize this at the time because I was a kid.

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Speaker 3: He was coming back with like charizzards and all these

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Speaker 3: you know cards that are very highly valued, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: you know what, I have so many of these things

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Speaker 3: about I just sell them. And then I think I

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Speaker 3: realized this may or may not have been the case,

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Speaker 3: but I'm guessing it was the case because there's just

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Speaker 3: way too many rare cards for them to be legit.

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Speaker 3: I just think that they were like copies. So like

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Speaker 3: I inevitably, unknowingly was you know, selling just you know,

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Speaker 3: rare cards, trading cards, things like that. So I put

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Speaker 3: a big poster board on my mailbox in my neighborhood

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Speaker 3: and I live on a main road growing up, so

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Speaker 3: all these people would say, see this sign, it's like

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Speaker 3: Pokemon cards for sale, and it was all the crazy.

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Speaker 3: So I would just sell, you know, Pokemon cards that

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Speaker 3: I was buying from packs, some that my dad brought

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Speaker 3: back from China. So that was like my first endeavor

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Speaker 3: into entrepreneurship. And then also like mixtape CDs. If you

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Speaker 3: guys remember the days of like Lyonwire and Kaza and

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Speaker 3: Napster and all that stuff, So Oh my gosh y Yeah,

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Speaker 3: just just hustling, man, just entrepreneurial, and some kids sell candy.

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Speaker 3: I was selling Pokemon cards and mixtapes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well you got to tell yourself that those were knockoffs,

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Speaker 2: because you're like, no, only I would have held onto

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Speaker 2: those and Keta wrapped up in the plastic. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: I don't know anything about Pokemon, but I'm sure they

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Speaker 2: would have been worth vast multiples of that to tew

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Speaker 2: years down the road.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, fast forward twenty twenty five years later. Man,

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Speaker 3: it's like, who knows what those are going for now

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Speaker 3: in eBay for real?

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Speaker 1: And they're hot again too, right, so because everything nostalgia's back,

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Speaker 1: are what caused you to launch a YouTube channel? And

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Speaker 1: then like whiteboard finance like at least started off where

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Speaker 1: you're teaching lessons on a whiteboard, which sounds like going

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Speaker 1: back to high school.

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Speaker 2: So like, why was that kind of the way the

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Speaker 2: way you wanted to present information? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: So my background in a nutshell is, like you said

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Speaker 3: in the intro, I've been investing since two thousand and six,

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Speaker 3: since I was eighteen, I opened up a trade king

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Speaker 3: accountants when you actually had to like scan documents like

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Speaker 3: you know, driver's license and you know, all this stuff

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Speaker 3: was kind of funny, and you physically mailed it to

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Speaker 3: the brokerage and then you'd hear back like a week

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Speaker 3: or two later and saying, oh, hey, this is your

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Speaker 3: log in credentials right now. You can just download an

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Speaker 3: app in two seconds and start you know, djen gambling

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Speaker 3: on whatever you want. But basically my story in a

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Speaker 3: nutshell was, I got a finance degree, started in six

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Speaker 3: graduated in twenty ten, and I got that finance degree

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Speaker 3: because I enjoy teaching and I wanted to be a

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Speaker 3: financial advisor. So ultimately I never actually ended up scratching

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Speaker 3: that itch because I graduated into one of the highest

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Speaker 3: unemployment rates in recent history. This was December of twenty ten.

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Speaker 3: I think unemployment was close to ten percent. I was

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Speaker 3: right after the global financial crisis. And I ended up

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Speaker 3: selling cars, ended up working in commercial real estate development,

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Speaker 3: commercial real estate lending, you know, commercial mortgage backed securities,

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Speaker 3: things like that, and I never really scratched the itch

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Speaker 3: of being that financial advisor. So I always had a

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Speaker 3: passion for like personal finance investing, you know, different types

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Speaker 3: of ways to I guess make money.

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Speaker 4: If you will.

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Speaker 3: So I had this DSLR camera that I bought for photography.

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Speaker 3: It was just simply for a hobby for my wife

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Speaker 3: and I and I never really used it. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's collecting dust. So I'm like, hey, I have this

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Speaker 3: really nice DSLR. You know, I enjoy teaching. You know

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Speaker 3: what's the natural segue to teaching. It's the classroom setting,

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Speaker 3: as I mentioned earlier, which you know, I could go

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Speaker 3: like the chalkboard, but that would be really annoying and

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Speaker 3: you know, piss my wife off or make her angry.

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Speaker 3: So I went with the dry erase board. You know,

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Speaker 3: much more logical, You get way more use out of it.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I ended up going on craigslist bought a

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Speaker 3: huge whiteboard with my brother in law and I. We

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Speaker 3: put on the roof of my car and it was

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Speaker 3: too big for my trunk. So we actually did this

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Speaker 3: in February and I'm in Cleveland, so we're like getting

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Speaker 3: frostbite on our hand, you know, holding this whiteboard on

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Speaker 3: the top of the car. Yeah, set it up in

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Speaker 3: my studio and the rest is history. So the reason

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Speaker 3: for the white board is because I think people pay

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Speaker 3: attention in a classroom setting, especially if you know what

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Speaker 3: you're talking about, or if you can simplify perceived to

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Speaker 3: be complex items. And that's kind of like my biggest

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Speaker 3: compliment that I get from my viewers. It's like, hey,

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Speaker 3: you have the ability to break this down. I don't

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Speaker 3: even speak English, it's my second or third language, and

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Speaker 3: even I understand what you're saying.

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Speaker 4: So I like that classroom setting.

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Speaker 2: I dig it. Yeah, when you see a whiteboard, you

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Speaker 2: know that you're in to learn something, and that's what

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Speaker 2: you've been able to convey and what you've established there

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Speaker 2: with your channel. So congrats with that.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about bitcoin, okay, Marco specifically, because when we

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Speaker 2: messaged you originally and you said that you could talk

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Speaker 2: about bitcoin specifically, but we made the air of saying,

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Speaker 2: I guess crypto generally speaking, which isn't necessarily your specialty, right,

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Speaker 2: And there are a lot of folks out there like

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Speaker 2: us that tend to lump those two things together, and

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Speaker 2: so can you draw a distinction between all other forms

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Speaker 2: of crypto versus bitcoin for us? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, So in that finance journey kind of went down

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Speaker 3: the rabbit hole of kind of like Austrian economics, which

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Speaker 3: is more of like a sound money. So if you

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Speaker 3: think of like money back by gold for example, or

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Speaker 3: hard money.

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Speaker 4: Now we have fiat.

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Speaker 3: Currency, which is literally just decreed by the government. So

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Speaker 3: there's a difference between money and currency. Anything can be money,

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Speaker 3: like I can trade you my cell phone for your

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Speaker 3: Pokemon card and that transaction, those two things were money,

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Speaker 3: right with currency currencies just especially fiat currency, its just

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Speaker 3: decreed by the government. So what is our currency back by?

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Speaker 3: Some people would argue without going to you know, geopolitical

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Speaker 3: or you know political in general. You know, we printed

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Speaker 3: trillions of dollars after the lockdowns of twenty twenty. Why

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Speaker 3: didn't our currency hyper inflate. Well, it's because the United

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Speaker 3: States is the global reserve currency. That happened with Bretton

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Speaker 3: Woods after World War two. Europe and the rest of

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Speaker 3: the world was essentially a parking lot and United States

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Speaker 3: was the next superpower that was really unscathed after World

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Speaker 3: War two. So United States becomes the base layer of money.

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Speaker 3: So base layer of money, think of it like gold.

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Speaker 3: If you think of a pyramid, gold is on the bottom,

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Speaker 3: and then what people aren't going to carry around gold?

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Speaker 4: So what do they do?

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Speaker 3: We obviously have dollars, right, it's just representative of the

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Speaker 3: gold that's inside the vaults or that the bank is

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Speaker 3: supposed to have. Right, in nineteen seventy one, we got

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Speaker 3: off the gold standard, thus creating fiat currency. So now

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Speaker 3: the money is backed by hopefully tax receipts, your GDP,

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Speaker 3: your ability to be a good economy, you know, world

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Speaker 3: reserve currency, which is currently the dollar, but it's also

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Speaker 3: backed by a lot more than that. It's petro dollars.

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Speaker 3: Most oil is traded in dollars. We've been in war forever,

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Speaker 3: never ending wars. There are just a lot of things

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Speaker 3: that back the dollar outside of just Hey, the United

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Speaker 3: States is a strong economy, right, so we don't have

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Speaker 3: to go down that rabbit hole. But the reason I'm

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Speaker 3: prefacing your question with all this is because I think

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Speaker 3: it's important for people to understand what sound money and

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Speaker 3: hard money is versus just let's call it crypto. So,

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Speaker 3: in my opinion, bitcoin is the hardest form of money

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Speaker 3: ever created. So what do I mean by that? And

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Speaker 3: what is hard money? So the traits of money, or

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Speaker 3: that it's fungible, meaning it's interchangeable. So no matter what

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Speaker 3: a ten dollar bill is, a ten dollar bill, and

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Speaker 3: a ten dollar bill is going to buy you ten

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Speaker 3: dollars worth of stuff all throughout the nation or all

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Speaker 3: throughout the world. Right, there's not different versions of a

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Speaker 3: ten dollar bill. It's non consumable, so it's not like

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Speaker 3: wheat or fish that can rot. It's portable, you know.

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Speaker 3: That's why we went from having gold in our pockets

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Speaker 3: to dollar bills because you can put it in a

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Speaker 3: billfold or a wallet.

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Speaker 4: It's durable. You know.

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Speaker 3: The dollars, yes, they can catch on fire or get

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Speaker 3: wet or do whatever. But that's why gold is very durable.

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Speaker 3: It's highly divisible. We have dollars and cents, and then

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Speaker 3: it's secure, it's easily transactable, and it's scarce, which fiat

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Speaker 3: money is not. So in my opinion, bitcoin, if you

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Speaker 3: look at a chart of all these different traits of money,

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Speaker 3: bitcoin checks the box for literally every single one of these.

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Speaker 3: And it's also decentralized. It's not owned by any certain person.

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Speaker 3: So when you look at bitcoin, not crypto. Crypto has

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Speaker 3: icos initial coin offerings, they have marketing teams behind them,

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Speaker 3: they have teams of developers, they have people that pump

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Speaker 3: them on Instagram, on Twitter, on social media on x

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Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it. A lot of them

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Speaker 3: is just creating hype for exit liquidity. So hey, check

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Speaker 3: out this really cool shiba enu coin. Right, check out dogecoin,

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Speaker 3: check out whatever. Those are all essentially just lottery tickets.

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Speaker 3: In my opinion, only bitcoin can be hard money. There's

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Speaker 3: other forms of bitcoin. There's light cooin, there's bitcoin cash,

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Speaker 3: There's a million different forks of bitcoin. But what people

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Speaker 3: need to realize is the story and the network effects

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Speaker 3: behind bitcoin is that there is no there is no

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Speaker 3: centralized agency that created it. There is no founder, there

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Speaker 3: is no vitallic booterine who created ethereum, There is no

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Speaker 3: Charles Hoskinson who created cardano. It's Satoshi Nakamoto, who no

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Speaker 3: one knows who that is. It's just a t ssunonymous

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Speaker 3: pen name on these forums and these emails. When bitcoin

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Speaker 3: was in its infancy being created in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 3: then it gave birth in two thousand and nine, which

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Speaker 3: is the Genesis block, and then that story has survived

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Speaker 3: ever since fifteen years later. So a lot of people

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Speaker 3: compare it to like a cult or religion, and I

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Speaker 3: guess you can see that in a lot of different ways.

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Speaker 3: But the beauty behind bitcoin is that no one knows

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Speaker 3: who created it, and it's just open source code. So

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Speaker 3: you and I can go on GitHub or whatever and

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Speaker 3: just literally look at bitcoin's code and see how it works.

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Speaker 3: We can create our own bitcoin, right, We can create

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Speaker 3: our own rules, but no one's going to want to

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Speaker 3: play with you if you play if you change the

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Speaker 3: rules of chess. You know, Matt and Joel could love chess.

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Speaker 3: I could love chess. But if I say, you know,

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Speaker 3: a pond has infinite possibilities to move, and I create

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Speaker 3: my own version of chess, well then we're not playing chess.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: So, without getting super long winded, I just think that,

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Speaker 3: in my humble opinion, the network effects of so many

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Speaker 3: people adopting it at this point fifteen years later Lindy effect,

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Speaker 3: meaning that a technology that's been kind of like the

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Speaker 3: forefront of that sector, has been alive for so long

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Speaker 3: it gets harder to kill as time goes on. And

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Speaker 3: then also, not having a single creator or founder that's

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Speaker 3: publicly known is just all the checkboxes of what could be.

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Speaker 3: You know, who knows what it could be fifteen years

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Speaker 3: from now. But in my opinion, it's the hardest form

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Speaker 3: of money ever created, and at minimum it's a great

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Speaker 3: savings technology.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about the difference between bitcoin as currency

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Speaker 1: and bitcoin as an investment, because to be a currency

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Speaker 1: and you need some stability there as well. Right, Granted,

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Speaker 1: inflation happens, but typically that the cycle of inflation is

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Speaker 1: is pretty understandable and until you know the printing of

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Speaker 1: money during the COVID lockdowns. But some people think of

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Speaker 1: bitcoin as the speculative asset they're hoping the number goes up.

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Speaker 1: And then there are other places like the Bitcoin Beach

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Speaker 1: for instance, where it's trying to be used as as

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Speaker 1: like the way that you transact, you use bitcoin to

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Speaker 1: buy and sell things. That's I think that it's hard

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Speaker 1: for me to wrap my mind or the fact that

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Speaker 1: it's it's kind of sort of trying to serve two purposes.

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Speaker 3: So I think bitcoin is kind of email in nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety three right now or nineteen ninety five. It's kind

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Speaker 3: of like when you're on the Today Show and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I just send an email and it's magic digital mail, right, Okay, great?

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Speaker 3: More do you Cynthia more at six? Later at six right,

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Speaker 3: And everyone's just like they kind of brush it off, right,

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Speaker 3: It's almost like a job. It's almost like use it regularly,

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Speaker 3: and then everyone uses email every single day.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: So I think bitcoin is still in its infancy and

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Speaker 3: it's going to that process of being a store of

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Speaker 3: value to be able to be a currency. The thing

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Speaker 3: that people have to realize is that if you don't

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Speaker 3: understand the technology behind it, I would recommend the book

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Speaker 3: Inventing Bitcoin by Jan Pritzker. It's kind of like a

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Speaker 3: layman's guide to understanding the technology behind bitcoin without being

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Speaker 3: a computer programmer, if that makes sense. So to answer

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Speaker 3: your question, it is money. It can be money. People

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Speaker 3: use it to transact all the time. Currency is when

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Speaker 3: it becomes a little bit more mainstream. Currencies are typically

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Speaker 3: dictated by governments, so like, hey, the US dollar is

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Speaker 3: the currency of the United States and it can be

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Speaker 3: the currency in other countries as well. So I don't

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Speaker 3: think bitcoin is there yet because of the protocol. So

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Speaker 3: the protocol, there's things called blocks. There's a million different

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Speaker 3: things that I can go into, but without losing your audience,

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Speaker 3: just think of layers. Okay, so when you think of

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Speaker 3: like master card, credit card, visa, that's not the US dollar.

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Speaker 3: You're transacting in US dollars, but that's a different layer

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Speaker 3: on top of the dollar.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: So if you think of the pyramid that I talked

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Speaker 3: about earlier, you have layers of money. So it used

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Speaker 3: to be gold, and then it was dollars, and then

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Speaker 3: it was you know, whatever you want to call it.

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Speaker 3: Now we have digital dollars. I'd say ninety eight percent

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Speaker 3: of dollars or digital they're just ones and zeros. Every

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Speaker 3: time you use your credit card, you're just using a

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Speaker 3: digital form of the dollar that doesn't settle for days later.

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Speaker 3: Or if you try and move money from a bank

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Speaker 3: account to another, it doesn't get there right away. It

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Speaker 3: takes days. So you were just using the digital layer

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Speaker 3: of the dollar.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: So we have let's call it, you know, the US dollar,

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Speaker 3: And on top of that, we have other platforms like Visa, PayPal, Stripe, Venmo,

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Speaker 3: whatever you want to whatever example you want to use.

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Speaker 3: So once those layer two solutions on top of the

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Speaker 3: Bitcoin protocol, such as like Lightning, there's aqua wallet. There's

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Speaker 3: a bunch of different solutions that are becoming more and

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Speaker 3: more available. Jack Dorsey just tweeted literally three four days

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Speaker 3: ago that I think they came out with bitkey or

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Speaker 3: whatever it's called. That's going to be his solution to

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Speaker 3: easily custody bitcoin and use it as currency. Right, so

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Speaker 3: we don't think about how our phones work. If I

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Speaker 3: were to send Matt or Joel a text message, do

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Speaker 3: I understand everything that's going on behind the scenes to

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Speaker 3: be able to send that text message or that emoji

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Speaker 3: or that gift? Obviously not, But we use it every day.

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Speaker 3: People don't know SMTP or whatever the protocol that email

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Speaker 3: runs on, right, we just send the email.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: So bitcoins so early, people are still having a hard

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Speaker 3: time understanding how it can become that currency. Until it's

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Speaker 3: so ingrained in our culture that we won't even think

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Speaker 3: twice about how it works.

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Speaker 2: That makes sense, it does, Yeah, And as more applications

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Speaker 2: are built and it's created in such a way that

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Speaker 2: makes it easier for folks, I think a lot of

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Speaker 2: folks do have a hard time wrapping their head around it.

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Speaker 2: But I want to go back to what you said.

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Speaker 2: When you're talking about fiat currency, you're talking about essentially

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Speaker 2: it exists because it was decreed by a government, and

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Speaker 2: so much of the power of a fiat currency comes

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Speaker 2: down to belief and trust like that is a huge

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Speaker 2: part of what makes money work and so and again

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Speaker 2: you were talking about like the network effect. So how

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Speaker 2: important is the growing just the growing belief to the

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Speaker 2: value of bitcoin and its price essentially.

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Speaker 3: Well, the beauty of it is that you don't have

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Speaker 3: to believe anything. Bitcoin is trustless. There is no trust involved.

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Speaker 3: Every time I use a dollar or a deposit my

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Speaker 3: money in a bank and hope to get it out,

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Speaker 3: I'm trusting a third party.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: So someone asked me inside my community, They ask me, well,

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Speaker 3: I want to store my seed phrase, the private keys

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Speaker 3: that allow me to access my bitcoin in a wallet

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Speaker 3: right anywhere in the world. I want to or that

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Speaker 3: in a vault in a bank, right. I'm like, well,

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Speaker 3: then you're trusting the bank.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: So every time that we're trusting a third party that

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Speaker 3: involves trust, I need to be able to trust Matt

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Speaker 3: and Joel, Right, Matt and Joel need to be able

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Speaker 3: to trust me with bitcoin. This all lives on the

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Speaker 3: men pool. The men pool is just all the different blocks,

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Speaker 3: all the transactions. It's completely transparent currency. You can see

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Speaker 3: what any address sent anyone at any time. I guess

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Speaker 3: to answer your question, bitcoin is trustless and bitcoin is

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Speaker 3: for enemies. You don't have to trust each other. You know,

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Speaker 3: Russia and China and United States can transact on bitcoin

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Speaker 3: because it's literally just math. It's literally just blocks of

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Speaker 3: information on an open source ledger. There's no behind the

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Speaker 3: scenes deals. There's no money going to Ukraine, there's no

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Speaker 3: money going under the table here, there's no money going there.

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Speaker 3: It's just if you know who owns the address, you

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Speaker 3: know exactly what's going on.

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Speaker 1: How does the growing printing of money in this country,

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Speaker 1: the growing national debt, how does that maybe influence your

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Speaker 1: belief in bitcoin? Is that part of people's disillusionment with

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Speaker 1: the US dollar and thinking that we need a harder

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00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:03,400
Speaker 1: form of currency.

437
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think people don't understand that. If you just

438
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,159
Speaker 3: pull up a chart, people can do this, if you

439
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,560
Speaker 3: just google, like Federal Reserve balance sheet. We've added trillions.

440
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 3: Our lizard brains can't even comprehend how big of a

441
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,399
Speaker 3: number a trillion is. It's a thousand billions. We've added

442
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 3: thousands of billions of dollars to the Federal reserves balance

443
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,199
Speaker 3: sheet just by you know, buying treasuries, right, that's what

444
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,920
Speaker 3: the Fed does. So people in this country, they're funny

445
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 3: because they always have, you know, certain thoughts about like

446
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,679
Speaker 3: socialism and central planning and we're not communists and this

447
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 3: and that. Well, it's called a central bank. Okay, we

448
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,119
Speaker 3: don't know. We don't know the monetary policy of the FED.

449
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,160
Speaker 3: Bitcoins protocol has every two hundred and ten thousand blocks.

450
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 3: It's called the having. It's gonna happen April twentieth. We

451
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 3: know bitcoin's monetary policy until the year twenty one forty. Okay,

452
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 3: So minors, they're rewarded in bitcoin by verifying blocks. So

453
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,320
Speaker 3: right now, the daily issuance of bitcoin is nine hundred

454
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 3: bitcoin per day, roughly six point sorry, let me do

455
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 3: the math. It started with fifty, then twenty five, and

456
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 3: twelve and a half and six point twenty five. Then

457
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,199
Speaker 3: it's going to go to three in an eighth for

458
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 3: the next two hundred and ten thousand blocks. So, without

459
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,399
Speaker 3: getting too technical and losing your audience, we know bitcoin's

460
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 3: monetary policy until the year twenty one forty. We don't

461
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 3: know what the FED is doing literally hours from now.

462
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,360
Speaker 2: Okay, So the predictability factor is here.

463
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, say you're a small business and you went through COVID.

464
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,479
Speaker 3: Say say you're a restaurant. How many businesses went out

465
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 3: of business during COVID A lot because they couldn't predict

466
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 3: something like that. Right, Inflation went crazy, cost the goods

467
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 3: went crazy. If you're on a deflationary or disinflationary money

468
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 3: like bitcoin, you can kind of make better business decisions

469
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 3: and spend your time more wisely as a business owner,

470
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 3: because you know what the money's going to do. Right,

471
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 3: Inflation is actually going to go down on a Bitcoin standard.

472
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 3: And I'm not some advocate for a bitcoin standard or

473
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 3: hyper bitcoinization or anything like that. I think fiat and

474
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 3: bitcoin can live together. But the one thing I wanted

475
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 3: to make your audience aware of is that I think

476
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 3: the worst case scenario for bitcoin, my humble opinion, is

477
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 3: just eating up the monetary premium of gold. So when

478
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 3: you look at monetary premium, all that means is that, hey,

479
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 3: this thing has value above and beyond its intrinsic value

480
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 3: because people are using it as money. So when people

481
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 3: complain about high real estate prices, single moms are getting

482
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 3: priced out by black Rock for example, or you know,

483
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 3: let's look at gold for example. I'd say eighty percent

484
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 3: of gold's values just from its monetary premium it's not

485
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 3: really to use that much in industrial applications as mostly

486
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 3: uses jewelry, and the rest of that value comes from

487
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 3: people saving in it because it's been hard money for

488
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 3: five thousand years. I think bitcoin is inevitably going to

489
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 3: suck up all that monetary premium from things that shouldn't

490
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 3: be used as money in the first place, like a

491
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,239
Speaker 3: single family home for example, with speculators and investors. And

492
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,199
Speaker 3: the base case, in my opinion, is going to be

493
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 3: Gold's market cap is ten x of what bitcoins is.

494
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 3: Gold is roughly eleven to twelve trillion at the time

495
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 3: of this recording. Bitcoin is roughly one point three trillion

496
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 3: at the time of this recording. And my humble opinion,

497
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 3: and I know this sounds insane if you haven't done

498
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 3: the work, but I think bitcoin still has ten x

499
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 3: to go because it's simply just going to meet the

500
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 3: market cap of gold, and then you can look at

501
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 3: other assets as well, you know, stocks, bonds, real estate,

502
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 3: things like that. So just look at it as a

503
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 3: monetary premium, and bitcoin is the monetary premium vacuum cleaner.

504
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:16,479
Speaker 3: I like it.

505
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: I mean, it makes sense, and it it goes to

506
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 2: explain a little bit why bitcoin's referred to as digital

507
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 2: gold the way that you've explained it here. But Marco,

508
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: we've got more to get to. Specifically, we want to

509
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 2: touch on Vanguard and their opinion of bitcoin. We've got

510
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 2: more to get to with you. Right after this, we're back.

511
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: We're still talking about bitcoin, hopefully in a basic enough

512
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,239
Speaker 1: level that we can all understand it. Matt and I

513
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: I think we would also call ourselves nubes in this space.

514
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: But Marco from Whiteboard Finance has been kind enough to

515
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: join us to walk through a bunch of stuff, and.

516
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 2: I'm already learning a lot.

517
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: So Marco, let's talk about bitcoin e and especially because

518
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: the number going up sort of thing is what lends

519
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 1: a spotlight again on bitcoin. How do you think that's

520
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: impacting prices? And isn't that also kind of the opposite

521
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: of the gold bitcoin, the decentralized finance part of it.

522
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's a great question.

523
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 3: So I think obviously the number has gone up since

524
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 3: the ETFs were approved on January eleventh of twenty twenty four,

525
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 3: so there was a little bit of a dip I

526
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 3: think to like thirty eight thousand, and then now we're

527
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 3: sitting roughly at I'd say sixty four thousand at the

528
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 3: time of this recording, which we hit a new all

529
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 3: time high before the having of I think seventy three

530
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 3: five right around there. So yes, we just have more

531
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 3: money going into bitcoin. So what people need to realize

532
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 3: is is that bitcoin is it's specifically scarce. So there's

533
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 3: only twenty one million bitcoin ever to be released into circulation,

534
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 3: and I'd say about like three to four million of

535
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 3: those have been lost, maybe a little bit less. But

536
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 3: let's just say there's nineteen million bitcoin that's you know,

537
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 3: that people are able to use or recover. So what

538
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 3: people need to realize it's just a simple supply and

539
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 3: demand equation and the price of bitcoin. It's three hundred

540
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 3: and sixty five days a year, twenty four to seven

541
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 3: does not trade just Monday through Friday like a typical asset.

542
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 3: The ETFs do, but bitcoin does not. So what people

543
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 3: need to realize is that if you have all these

544
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 3: ETFs adding hundreds of millions of dollars a day into

545
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 3: new flow into bitcoin, since there's only twenty one million ever,

546
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 3: I think right now there's only about like nineteen something

547
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 3: in circulation based on the having numbers minus whatever has

548
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 3: been lost that I refer to earlier. Then it's just

549
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: simple supply and demand. So number is going to go up.

550
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 3: So Bitcoin is about up one hundred and thirty one

551
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty five percent year over year at this point,

552
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 3: and it's up something crazy year to date as well.

553
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 3: But I think what people need to realize is that

554
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 3: you're going to get so many more passive flows from

555
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 3: people that are now more comfortable using a traditional brokerage

556
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 3: to buy I bit, you know, black Rocks ETF offering

557
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 3: for example. So I believe there's eleven total ETFs, of

558
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 3: which I think eight of those coin bases the custodium,

559
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: which kind of creates some of that concentration risk that

560
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 3: you guys were talking about. But basically it's just a

561
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 3: simple supply and demand equation. So if there's more inflows

562
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: and less outflows on these exchanges or into these ETFs,

563
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 3: the bitcoin number is typically going to go up.

564
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 2: Into the right makes sense, Yeah, going back to the

565
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 2: scarcity aspect, But let's talk about I mentioned Vanguard before

566
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 2: the break. On one hand, you've got Vanguard and on

567
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 2: the other hand you've got Fidelity. They obviously seem to

568
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 2: be taking different paths. But you're predicting essentially that more

569
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: and more folks are going to be are interested in bitcoin,

570
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 2: and it sounds like that the different brokerages that are

571
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 2: not participating in that, I mean, it seems like they're

572
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 2: just going to be left in the dusts.

573
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, very well, could be. I mean I understand.

574
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 3: So if you guys have ever been on a bogel

575
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 3: Head forum, So Jack Bogel is the founder of Vanguard,

576
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 3: so there's a whole forum dedicated to him called the

577
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 3: bogel Heads and the whole different investment philosophy. So he's

578
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 3: typically a proponent of the three fund portfolio. So you

579
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 3: have globull stocks or international stocks excuse me, x Us,

580
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 3: then you have total US stock market, then you have bonds. Right,

581
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 3: that's typically the bogel Head three fund portfolio. If you

582
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 3: guys have ever been on a bogle Head form and

583
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: looked at the conversations around bitcoin or crypto in general,

584
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 3: people they just they don't do the work and it's

585
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 3: just very unproductive conversations over there. So I can see

586
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 3: why from pandering to their customer base, I understand why

587
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 3: Vanguard is not Uh, I don't want to say accepting.

588
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 3: They're just not even giving the people the option to

589
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 3: invest in these They're not even considering it exactly. So ultimately,

590
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 3: I understand it's kind of like, you know, if McDonald's

591
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 3: started making I don't know, spinach bites, yes, spinach bites,

592
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 3: keen wa quen wah bite. Yeah, it's like, obviously you're

593
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,719
Speaker 3: not pandering to your customer base. So I understand why

594
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: Vanguard is doing it. I just think that in this

595
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 3: age now where people are starting to wake up just

596
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 3: a little bit in terms of what is money, you know,

597
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 3: I want to be a little bit more diversified than

598
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 3: just simply stocks, bonds, target date funds, you know, things

599
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: like that. I think that they're kind of creating a

600
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 3: competitive disadvantage to themselves because if you think about gain theory, say,

601
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 3: for example, here's a perfect example, So China they banned

602
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 3: bitcoin mining in twenty twenty one. All those miners they're

603
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 3: just opening up shop in the United States, Africa, Europe,

604
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 3: you know, Asia, all over the place. Right, They're just

605
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 3: doing it somewhere else. So that's inevitable what's going to

606
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 3: happen to Vanguard. People are just going to buy those

607
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 3: funds from somewhere else. So set exactly, so I think

608
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 3: they're kind of potentially shooting themselves in the foot in

609
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: the long term. In the near term, you know, I

610
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 3: don't think most of their customers are in a care

611
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 3: But the one tweet I did see was this gentleman

612
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 3: when bitcoin was pumping literally fifty percent earlier this year,

613
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: from a period of like one or two weeks, Vanguard

614
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 3: actually got rid of all this gentleman's I forgot what

615
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 3: his holdings were. I think it was in the Bitcoin ETF,

616
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 3: not the spot ETF. But I believe the future is

617
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: one and that pumped everything pump. And this guy's like, okay,

618
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,959
Speaker 3: I'm now getting I'm canceling my Vanguard account.

619
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 4: I'm moving elsewhere.

620
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 3: So that's just the mini microcosm of game theory playing out.

621
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: In my opinion, When you you're more of a bitcoin purist,

622
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,479
Speaker 1: you obviously have a lot of faith in it as

623
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: an asset class and as a hard form of money.

624
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: What would you say to somebody who's like, I feel like,

625
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: after this conversation, I need more bitcoin exposure. We'll talk

626
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: about like how to think about how much you have too,

627
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: But should I be buying dollar cost averaging into one

628
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: of these bitcoin ETFs do I actually need to? I know,

629
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: there's like you know, owning the bitcoin itself, cold storage,

630
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Like how how important is it

631
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: just to have like exposure versus having owning it in

632
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: the right way.

633
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a that's a great question. So me, you know,

634
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 3: the entire premise of Okay, let's just use gold for

635
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 3: an example. Would you rather own physical gold bouoleon or

636
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 3: would you rather own a gold ETF? Right, So, in

637
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 3: my opinion, owning the ETF defeats the purpose the asset

638
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 3: class in the first place.

639
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: I will say though, that it makes it easier to

640
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: buy and sell, because if you're saying you make your

641
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: put your Pokemon sign out on the mailbox of your driveway,

642
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: well I have to do the same thing with my

643
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: gold bar, right, Whereas it's it's so much easier to

644
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: trade the ETF one hundred percent.

645
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: But that's where bitcoin is far superior to gold. It's

646
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 3: divisible to one hundred million places. I think calling a

647
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 3: digital gold is almost like not giving bitcoin nearly enough credit.

648
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 3: Its just completely It's like discovering the number zero, right,

649
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 3: you only do that once. And that's why bitcoin has

650
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 3: kind of like a cult like following, because it just

651
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 3: takes all the properties of gold and just it goes

652
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 3: from analog So like your cassette that you maybe used

653
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 3: to listen to fifteen twenty thirty years ago and turning

654
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 3: it into an MP three. That's all bitcoin is doing

655
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 3: to gold, but in a much infinitely much better way,

656
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 3: with the blocks, with the open ledger, with everything. So anyway,

657
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 3: very quickly, I think that, in my opinion, I don't

658
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: think that I know that I'd much rather custody my

659
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 3: own bitcoin and be my own sovereign individual and be

660
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: my own bank, be my own wealth manager, be my

661
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 3: own portfolio manager, then to rely on black Rocks sending

662
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,959
Speaker 3: me a screenshot of my bitcoin, you know, quarterly or

663
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 3: you know whatever that you want to look at it.

664
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 3: So it's nice to know that you you know, the

665
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 3: phrase is not your keys, not your cheese, okay, not

666
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 3: the keys to your seed phrase, not your bitcoin. And

667
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: there's and I think you're gonna allude to another question

668
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 3: of like how much bitcoin should you own. There's a

669
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 3: great website called knakamoto portfolio dot com. This is created

670
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 3: by Swan Bitcoin. I would check it out because it

671
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 3: gives you the ability to run tests of your current

672
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 3: portfolio and what those results would be if you were

673
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 3: to juice it up a little bit with bitcoin, and

674
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 3: you could add anywhere from one percent to one hundred percent.

675
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 3: I personally have a bitcoin is at least fifteen percent

676
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 3: of my net worth at all times, and then it

677
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 3: far exceeds that once it pumps and I don't have

678
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 3: this Is this gonna sound wrong no matter how I

679
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 3: say it. My net worth isn't ten grand. Okay, my

680
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 3: net worth is high, and it's at least fifteen percent

681
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: of my networth at all times, I.

682
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 2: Would hope, so from the mister Beast of personal finance,

683
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: you know.

684
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

685
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 3: So my point is is that I'm not just some

686
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 3: like Charlatan trying to sell you something. There's no kickback

687
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: from the CEO of bitcoin there because there is no

688
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 3: there is no CEO.

689
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 4: It's the beauty of it.

690
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 3: It's just something I've studied for a very long time

691
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 3: and I think it answers a lot of questions in

692
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: today's monetary system.

693
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: And that's why we want to have you on too,

694
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: because you're you're a personal finance nerd. You talk about

695
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff that Matt and I cover,

696
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: and we have very similar philosophies. You're just more into

697
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: bitcoin than we are. And part of it is because

698
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think Mas's probably done more work

699
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: on this than me. I'm probably just like again Bitcoin Nube.

700
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: You also, one of the other things you talk about

701
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,719
Speaker 1: is the dollar cost averaging approach, so you're not about

702
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: timing the market. Even on bitcoin. It seems like it's

703
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: regular study as you go buying in at regular intervals

704
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: no matter what the price is doing.

705
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 3: Right, I've been buying bitcoin every week since twenty eighteen.

706
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: I've bought it at two three grand, i bought it

707
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 3: at seventy three grand. I don't care, you know, I

708
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 3: literally don't care because I know what I'm buying and

709
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 3: I know what it is. And the way that your

710
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 3: audience should think about this is that if I know

711
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 3: it's not video, but I'm holding up a circle with

712
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: my hands. If you think of a pie or a pizza,

713
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 3: you should have every asset slice as a asset class

714
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: as a slice of that pizza. Okay, So for me,

715
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 3: I have a fifteen percent slice of bitcoin. I have

716
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 3: thirty five percent stocks, thirty five percent real estate, some

717
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 3: precious metals, some collectible, some you name it. Right, you

718
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 3: should define whatever the size of your slices are, and

719
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 3: you should be okay with that slice going to zero.

720
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 3: So if that slice goes to zero and you want

721
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 3: to jump off a building or drink yourself to death,

722
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 3: then that's too big of a slice, right. You need

723
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 3: to create it to where you sleep well at night.

724
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, Like, I'm thinking about folks who are

725
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 2: interested in it, like they're experiencing some of that foam

726
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: because they're like, oh man, I totally should have bought

727
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 2: some more of it while it was you know, in

728
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: the dumps over the past year. Can I go back

729
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 2: in time to seventeen? Yeah, Well, like, there are a

730
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 2: lot of folks who are approaching it more from a

731
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 2: speculative standpoint. But the way you're talking about it, you

732
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: are treating it just like you are treating any other

733
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: asset class. Is that right? Yeah?

734
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 4: Absolutely? And smash by too.

735
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 3: I mean, my dollar cost average is you know, a

736
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: certain amount, and I haven't deviated from that for six

737
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: years now, six and a half years. But yeah, I've

738
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,959
Speaker 3: bought many dips, you know, I post about it on Twitter.

739
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 3: I just bought a thousand dollars yesterday. And I think

740
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 3: it's important for your audience to understand if you have

741
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 3: a thesis on something and you have a general feeling

742
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 3: that the probability is that you're right. You know, no

743
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 3: one is right, no one has a crystal ball, But

744
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 3: why would you deviate from that thesis unless proved otherwise? Right?

745
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 3: So for me, I guess for your audience, if you're

746
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: going to go down this rabbit hole, I would highly

747
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 3: recommend reading these certain books. I can name them either

748
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,919
Speaker 3: in the show notes or in the episode. But once

749
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 3: you understand what you're buying, once you see it, it

750
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 3: can't be unseen. Is just the solution to everything that's

751
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 3: going on right now. So when you go to Longhorn

752
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 3: Steakhouse and your steak is twenty one ninety nine five

753
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 3: six years ago, and now the same outlaw Rabbi is

754
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 3: thirty one ninety nine, there's a reason for that fifty

755
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 3: percent increase.

756
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 4: Right.

757
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 3: So the question that I would post to your audience is,

758
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 3: if you had one hundred thousand dollars right now, do

759
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 3: you think it's to buy more or less five years

760
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: from now?

761
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 4: Obviously less?

762
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 3: Right, So, if you have one hundred thousand dollars in

763
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 3: bitcoin you think it's going to be worth more or

764
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 3: less than five years from now, and it's proven every

765
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 3: four year cycle to be multiples higher. Right, So I'm

766
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 3: not telling anyone to do anything. I could be one

767
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 3: hundred percent wrong. I don't think I am. But at

768
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 3: the end of the day, if you're looking for a

769
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 3: sound money that can't be debased by a few clicks

770
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 3: by the Federal Reserve that prints trillions into your balance sheet,

771
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 3: thus devaluing the value of your currency, then bitcoin may

772
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 3: be a good savings technology at the minimum, and then

773
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 3: it may be a currency that sucks up the monetary

774
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 3: premium of a lot of things in the future.

775
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: Sure, Okay, So getting to the tip to brass tacks,

776
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 2: you've mentioned you're fifteen percent essentially for you, that's how

777
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: much you believe in it. I guess it varies because

778
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 2: you said, you know, as it shoots up, as it pumps,

779
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 2: it's worth a lot more and it's more of a

780
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: percentage of your overall portfolio. But at this point, or

781
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: maybe what you strive for and the balance that you're

782
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 2: trying to you're trying to strike, you believe in it

783
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: up to fifteen percent and.

784
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 3: So oh at a minimum, and I don't. I don't

785
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 3: call my position either if it inflates to you know,

786
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 3: twenty five thirty whatever. I never sell you're yeah, I've

787
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 3: sold bitcoin literally once in my life. I sold half

788
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 3: a bitcoin a couple of years ago, and then I

789
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 3: just ended up smashed buying it right back.

790
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 4: So it's it's different, man.

791
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 3: It's it changes you as a person because you have

792
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: to realize as time preference. So this may be a

793
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 3: new concept to your audience. When your money is being devalued,

794
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 3: you have high time preference. You need to do something

795
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 3: with that money. You make decisions today to you know,

796
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 3: appease your to satiate your needs today. When you know

797
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 3: that your money can't be debased, you make long term decisions, right.

798
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 3: It's kind of like building a ship in a shipyard

799
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 3: that takes years, as opposed to, you know what, my

800
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 3: money's not worth anything, let me buy some crap coin.

801
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 4: You know.

802
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 3: Again, it's establishing what percentage you're comfortable with if you're

803
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 3: networth going to zero, which I don't think is going

804
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 3: to happen. If I didn't have a wife and kids,

805
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 3: I'd probably be significantly higher. But the goal of my channel.

806
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 3: It's very simple. It's I'm a traditional finance guy. I

807
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 3: understand that the chart is going to go up into

808
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: the right as long as we have US dollar dominance, right,

809
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 3: Petro dollar, big military wars, high demand internationally for dollars.

810
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 3: Like let's just use a quick example so I don't

811
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 3: lose your audience. If I'm a manufacturing firm in Colombia

812
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 3: and I have the ability to borrow pasos Colombian pasos

813
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 3: at nine percent, or I can borrow in US dollars

814
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 3: at six and a half percent, on what planet would

815
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 3: that business decision make to borrow and paysos and I

816
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 3: can borrow dollars right now? Multiply that example for the

817
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 3: entire world. If you look at Lebanon right now, Lebanon's

818
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 3: going through quasi, you know, hyperinflation. Look at Turkey, Look

819
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 3: at Argentina. Argentina, I think is at like two hundred

820
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 3: and seventy percent inflation over the last couple of years.

821
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 4: They're getting rid of.

822
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 3: Their crap coin aka the lira, the pound, the paso

823
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 3: to pay for their day to day stuff, and they're

824
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 3: keeping the dollar in their back pocket because it's the

825
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 3: world reserve currency. Actually means something, right, So it's kind

826
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 3: of like Gresham's law, bad money drives out good. So

827
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: this may be this may make any sense to your audience,

828
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 3: but that's playing out in real time. Why would someone

829
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 3: keep a unit of currency that's being debased day by day.

830
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 3: We're adding a trillion dollars every hundred days, I believe

831
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 3: now at this point, and our tax receipts are not

832
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 3: coming up, are They're not. They're not sufficient to keep

833
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 3: up with the rate of what we're spending to where

834
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 3: it's like, Okay, when does this become unsustainable? Why would

835
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 3: I want to save in dollars when I can save

836
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 3: in this monetary fuel cell known as bitcoin.

837
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of truth there.

838
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: And I think the recent bout of inflation and the

839
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: ticking up of the national debt that becomes more and

840
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: more concerning to anybody who's paying attention, right, And I

841
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: think seeing the national debt, national deficit increase substantially over

842
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: the past couple of decades and especially over the past

843
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: few years, that does start. It starts to make you

844
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: ask questions. Because there are some people, the modern monetary

845
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: theorists out there, who would say, well, there's no limit

846
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: to the amount of the US government can print money

847
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: or can make spending obligations without increasing taxes. But I

848
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: think most level headed folks would disagree with that.

849
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad you brought up MMT Modern monetary Theory.

850
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 3: There's a good book called The Deficit Myth, and if

851
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 3: your audience wants to hear both sides of this, because

852
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 3: I'm not some like bitcoin evangelists or propagandists, I'm someone

853
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 3: who's just been studying money for a very long time,

854
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 3: and bitcoin is, in my opinion, a good answer to it.

855
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 3: I think that the Deficit Myth, along with the books

856
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 3: that I would recommend, would be a good counterbalance, and

857
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 3: then they can make their own decision. But basically MMT

858
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 3: in a nutshell is that, hey, government balance sheet is

859
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 3: not like our household balance sheet. To where you and

860
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 3: I are teaching personal finance. You know one plus one

861
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 3: is two. You know when it comes to MT, you

862
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 3: can just print the two and hope it doesn't inflate. Right,

863
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 3: So that may not be a good analogy. But what

864
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 3: I'm trying to say is I think to balance out

865
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: everything that I'm saying, people just need to do their

866
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 3: own work.

867
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 4: And come to their own conclusion.

868
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 3: I don't want anyone buying bitcoin without understanding it, because

869
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 3: they're not going to have the conviction to hold it

870
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 3: during sixty seventy eighty percent drops.

871
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point too. Have you got to

872
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: know the why behind it so you actually can stay

873
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: the course or we got just a few more questions

874
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: to get to with you, Marco, and clude you want

875
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: to talk about criminal activity in the bitcoin or the

876
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: crypto space, We'll get to a few more questions right

877
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: after this.

878
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: Right, we're back from the break talking with Marco from

879
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 2: Whiteboard Finance, and obviously we're talking all about bitcoin, but

880
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 2: before we before we dive even deeper, Marco, I kind

881
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: of want to, I guess, back out a little bit,

882
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 2: maybe talk a little bit more about general personal finance,

883
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 2: because from what I understand, are you completely debt free?

884
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 4: Uh yeah, like literally, Okay, So.

885
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 2: I'm curious because like what pushed you in that direction?

886
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 4: I had kids?

887
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 2: You know, is it kids? Because because because on one hand,

888
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 2: like there's okay, security, peace of mind, But on the

889
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 2: other hand, when you are such you know, you believe

890
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 2: in bitcoin, you believe in the future.

891
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: Of it where it's going to go or even taking

892
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: bitcoin out of the equation. If you had a low

893
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: let's say you had a low interest rate mortgage stot

894
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: in the historical average return of stocks, it doesn't necessarily make,

895
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: you know, sense to pay off that debt.

896
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: Or if you're if you're only looking at the numbers.

897
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 3: Paying off my house was the dumbest financial decision I've

898
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 3: ever made. But here's the double edged sword, is that

899
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 3: I'm an entrepreneur. I don't know what my income is

900
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 3: going to be tomorrow. You know, it just helps you

901
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 3: sleep well at night, which is an emotional thing. So

902
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 3: I think people need to just balance the two, right,

903
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 3: So it's like I reduced, you know, my biggest expense

904
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 3: in my life. I have no debt now, so it

905
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 3: just allows me to be way more bullish in my

906
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 3: convictions and in my investing. So in the yes, you're

907
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 3: you're foregoing the mathematics of it, because, especially in an

908
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 3: inflationary environment, it makes no sense to pay off you know,

909
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 3: low interest rate debt. But at the same time, you know,

910
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 3: if you want to live stress free, that's also a

911
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 3: benefit as well.

912
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: Sure, so dumb financial move, but smart personal move you

913
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 2: and I love too.

914
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: Like what you said, like it allows you to be

915
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: more bullish with your investments because if you don't have

916
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,720
Speaker 1: the debt, if you don't have the recurring monthly payments

917
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: that come along with having household debt, you can be

918
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: a little more adventurous I guess when it comes to

919
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: what you're investing.

920
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, hundred percent. And it's also a super charge as well.

921
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 3: And also your audience knows this because they're smart, and

922
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 3: you guys know this as well. I mean the time

923
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 3: value of money. A dollar today is worth more than

924
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 3: a dollar, you know, ten years from now, and when

925
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 3: you're investing, especially when we talked about the chart going

926
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 3: up into the right historically, you know, time is on

927
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 3: your side. So yeah, that's why I did that. I

928
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 3: could I could have plopped that into you know, VTI,

929
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 3: a total stock market fund for example, but at the

930
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 3: end of the day, I wanted to cross off that

931
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 3: big debt first and then I can just pile loads

932
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 3: of money into my investments and not have to think

933
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 3: about it. Perfect example. You know, I smash bought you know,

934
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 3: five grand a bitcoin a couple weeks ago. I bought

935
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,479
Speaker 3: a thousand last week. I dollar cost average every week

936
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 3: into four specific index funds and ETFs and I don't

937
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 3: have to think twice about it.

938
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that.

939
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 1: How do you think about criminal activity in the cryptocurrency

940
00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 1: space and does bitcoin get an undeserved black eye because

941
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: of maybe things that are happening with other crypto coins

942
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 1: and let's say the Sam Bachman freed FTX fiasco. How

943
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: do do you think, I don't know, Bitcoin's reputation is

944
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: unfairly maligned because of some of that stuff happening. Or

945
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: do you think there really are some criminal enterprises using

946
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: bitcoin for nefarious purposes?

947
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 4: Yeah?

948
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 3: I think both those things are true. So I've been

949
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 3: tweeting for years saying that bitcoin needs to do a

950
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 3: better job of kind of disassociating itself from crypto, if

951
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 3: you will, Because crypto you have anything from you know,

952
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 3: great use cases that you know companies and governments are

953
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 3: adopting all the way down to Geo Boden, you know Shiba,

954
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 3: you new meme coin, right, So it runs the whole gamut. Again,

955
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 3: from my background, from my educational background and my own

956
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 3: personal education, I'm a sound money kind of guy, just

957
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 3: because I think it provides lower time preference, it helps

958
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 3: people make decisions for the long term, and I think

959
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 3: from that standpoint, I am a bitcoin maximalist. From from

960
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 3: a sound money standpoint, are there other cryptos or coins

961
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 3: or tokens or smart contracts or all that stuff that

962
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,919
Speaker 3: we can go down that provide value for other use cases? Yes,

963
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 3: there can be, But again from a sound money standpoint,

964
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 3: I'm all about bitcoin. The other question of like, is

965
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 3: it used for a listed activity? Absolutely, just like the

966
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 3: dollar has been for hundreds of years, right, so it

967
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 3: just I fiat currency has been used for that as well.

968
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 3: If you look at like HSBC literally getting fined for

969
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 3: washing Mexican drug cartel money. You know, the dollar never

970
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: gets those articles written about it. But if someone uses

971
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 3: it to buy you know, some weed or ecstasy or

972
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 3: you know, cocaine on the dark web, then bitcoin is

973
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 3: the worst thing ever created. So I just think it's

974
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 3: whatever you know, the media wants to focus on.

975
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's true. I think it's oftentimes it's just

976
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 2: a straw man argument and there's not there's not a

977
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 2: whole whole lot behind that. But as far as some

978
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 2: of the the meme coins out there and the just

979
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 2: even honestly some of the NFTs, do you think that

980
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,760
Speaker 2: the rise. Because this is one of the interesting things

981
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,919
Speaker 2: is oftentimes you do see correlated activity when it comes

982
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 2: to Bitcoin and even just ethereum. Like you said, there

983
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 2: are use case scenarios for different coins out there, But

984
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 2: even when it comes to the shibu e new coins,

985
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,439
Speaker 2: are they essentially just writing on the coattails and are

986
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 2: they hanging out in the wake of Bitcoin and the

987
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: the actual work that it's doing.

988
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Bitcoin is this, That's how you Bitcoin is

989
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 3: the signal. Everything else is the noise.

990
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: All right, So let's say we wake up ten years

991
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: from now, twenty thirty four, and what's going on with

992
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: bitcoin at that point in time. Yes, Mark going to

993
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: make a prediction, not even like not even like all

994
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: those are the price it's going to be at, but

995
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: like what's happening in the bitcoin world and what's going

996
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: to happen, Like what will people be feeling Who listened

997
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: to this in twenty twenty four and they said, that's

998
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: great for Marco, but I think I'm gonna stick with

999
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: my my normal boring investing strategy that Matt and Joel

1000
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: talk about most of the time. How are those people

1001
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: going to be feeling a decade down the road.

1002
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, from like an adoption and technological standpoint, is going

1003
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 3: to be the same as any other technology. I think

1004
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 3: innovations are going to be made. I think those layer

1005
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 3: two solutions are going to be become much more easier

1006
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 3: to use, much more accessible. They're already happening. And then

1007
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 3: also again I'm not price prediction guy, but my base

1008
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 3: case is that it's a much much much better version

1009
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,439
Speaker 3: of gold, and that would put bitcoin at around half

1010
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 3: a million dollars per bitcoin. And I know that sounds insane,

1011
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 3: but whether you believe me or not, it's still the

1012
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 3: biggest asymmetric bet that you can make with the highest

1013
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 3: probability at this point in time without having to pick

1014
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 3: you know, the NVIDIAs, the Tesla's, the you know metas

1015
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 3: and you know wondering what the CEO is going to

1016
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 3: do and what the macro environment is going to be.

1017
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 3: I think the cat is out of the bag and

1018
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 3: the network and Lindy effects are just going to make

1019
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 3: it stronger. But that's not to say that you know,

1020
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 3: it is volatile, it's very new. It's an infant technology essentially,

1021
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 3: it's fifteen years old. It's still on the early adopter

1022
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 3: side of the Bell curve. But I think ten years

1023
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 3: from now, I think you know we're going to be

1024
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 3: able to transact with it and use it without even

1025
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 3: thinking about it.

1026
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, now you heard it here twenty thirty four half

1027
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 2: a million per bitcoin, and Marco, you can rub it

1028
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 2: in our faces after you invite us over to enjoy

1029
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: some of those Rabbi's right.

1030
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 3: I don't want to rub anything in anyone's faces. I

1031
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 3: just I think it will behoove you to read these books.

1032
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 3: I'm not associated with any of these people, but I

1033
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 3: would read them in this specific order if you're genuinely interested.

1034
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 3: They're audiobooks. You can listen to them, you can, there's

1035
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 3: different ways to consume them. But it would be the

1036
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 3: bullish case for bitcoin. It would be inventing bitcoin. It

1037
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 3: would be the bitcoin standard gradually then suddenly layered money,

1038
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 3: the price of tomorrow, and then broken money. So you

1039
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 3: can you can rewind that. But I'm not associated with

1040
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 3: any of these authors, but I think it'll help provide

1041
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 3: some clarity.

1042
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 2: Awesome. Yeah, no, and we will absolutely We'll link to

1043
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 2: every single one of those books in our show notes,

1044
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 2: and I gonna check a couple of those out myself

1045
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: for sure, from our local library. But Marco, we really

1046
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 2: appreciate you taking the time to speak with us about bitcoin,

1047
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 2: sharing your thoughts on it, and working folks learn more

1048
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 2: about you.

1049
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 3: Well.

1050
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 2: Obviously they can head over to YouTube, white or finance

1051
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 2: and learn more about bitcoin, but also just personal finance

1052
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 2: in general there as well. But where else can folks

1053
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 2: find you?

1054
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, so whiteboard Finance on YouTube, Whiteboard finn Fin on

1055
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 3: x or Twitter, and then whiteboard Finance on Instagram if

1056
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 3: you guys are interested. I don't want to plug anything,

1057
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 3: but I do have a private community where we've been

1058
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 3: talking about bitcoin when it was significantly less than it

1059
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 3: is now, and people are paying for that membership ten

1060
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,280
Speaker 3: times over. It's just Whiteboard Finance University. It's a private community,

1061
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 3: we have professors.

1062
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 4: It's really good stuff.

1063
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: Awesome, Marco, thank you so much for joining us today. Man,

1064
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it.

1065
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me, guys, Joel.

1066
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 2: Isn't it refreshing to talk to somebody about something that

1067
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: is really complex? But oftentimes there are more emotions involved

1068
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 2: with how it is that you're thinking about something like this, Yes,

1069
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 2: and I feel like Marco was able to just talk

1070
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 2: about it with a bounced perspective.

1071
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: It bring with the heart of a teacher, the whiteboard

1072
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: finance thing man, exactly exactly.

1073
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 2: That's what I felt the entire time.

1074
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: And I felt like I was being taught because honestly,

1075
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm a second grader here.

1076
00:48:57,920 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: On this stuff.

1077
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: So it comes to bitcoin, Yeah, I mean, well, I

1078
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: feel like there's I know something, but like market does

1079
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:04,919
Speaker 1: a whole heck of a lot more. Obviously he's he's

1080
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 1: done the work, and so I really appreciate hearing his perspective,

1081
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: and I feel like it's it's worth having someone who's thoughtful,

1082
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: who kind of stems from in a lot of ways

1083
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 1: our thought process on how to handle money, but is

1084
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: also more pro bitcoin and it's reasons for it.

1085
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 2: Multiple levels deeper when it comes to understanding it, to

1086
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 2: the point that he is comfortable with investing, you know,

1087
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 2: over fifteen percent of his overall portfolio within within bitcoin.

1088
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 2: But yeah, is that your big takeaway that you're going

1089
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 2: to go all in, go ahead and sell.

1090
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: You're going to sell all your sc rocks, Yes, go

1091
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: all in everything. I am TC baby, yep, even all

1092
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: my clothing items. Like I'm just gonna walk around in alloyingcloth,

1093
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: but I'll loan a lot of bitcoin. I think my

1094
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: big takeaway was when he said, like, what allocation is

1095
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: not going to cause you to lose sleep? And that

1096
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: is a really important thing, like as possible to see

1097
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: other investments to climb precipitously too, right, Volatility is the

1098
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: price of admission into the stock market. We discussed that regularly,

1099
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 1: and so if you don't feel comfortable seeing a forty

1100
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 1: plus percent drop in your portfolio potentially for multiple years

1101
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: on end, then you probably need to change it. Change

1102
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: your allocation so that you can sleep better at night

1103
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 1: when things get tough. And that is even more true

1104
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: of bitcoin. So if you decide to read the books,

1105
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 1: and if you think that you know Marco's stance about

1106
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 1: bitcoin being the hardest form of money ever created, if

1107
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:21,959
Speaker 1: that makes sense to you, that resonates with you. Well,

1108
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: I love the dollar cost averaging, goes slowly into it,

1109
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: and then just don't bite off more than you can chew,

1110
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: don't take don't take on so much risk that when

1111
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,439
Speaker 1: that inevitable eighty percent decline happens, sixty percent de client

1112
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: Because Bitcoin, like I said, is even more volatile that

1113
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 1: it's not going to.

1114
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 2: Cause you to freak out. Yeah, my big takeaway is

1115
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 2: going to have to do with essentially around the having

1116
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 2: event and less and less of bitcoin is being created.

1117
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 2: There's a set amount that's ever going to be created.

1118
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 2: And going back to when he was outlining some of

1119
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 2: the different properties of what makes money, what makes a

1120
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:55,720
Speaker 2: currency in scarcity, like the facts that we know exactly

1121
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 2: how much there's going to be in the parallel to

1122
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 2: the US and the ability it's a print money and

1123
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 2: deciding Jay Powell like it all kind of comes down

1124
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 2: to him and how he says certain words. Doesn't that

1125
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 2: make that It really makes that seem kind of crazy,

1126
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 2: like you're trying to balance this ship on the head

1127
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 2: of a pin as opposed to the predictability of knowing

1128
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 2: what's in store for us when it comes to bitcoin. So,

1129
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, the scarcity argument that he made really

1130
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 2: stood up to me during this conversation. And I also

1131
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 2: just appreciate his kind of delineation between bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

1132
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,879
Speaker 2: And there's there's the proof of work versus the proof

1133
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 2: of steak. There's a whole lot of reasons that Marco

1134
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 2: takes that approach and believes that bitcoin is wholly different

1135
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: than crypto and crypto products are writing the Bitcoin cottails,

1136
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 2: and so it does make me think more about not

1137
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 2: increasing my bitcoin exposure past five percent, but at least

1138
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 2: making that kind of experimental five percent more bitcoin heavy.

1139
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 2: It certainly puts bitcoin in a different light. Yeah, yeah, certainly.

1140
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: But uh okay. The beer Joel that you and I

1141
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 2: enjoyed during this episode was a diamond Dust. This is

1142
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 2: a by Pure Project, donated to the show by Christy.

1143
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 2: What were your thoughts, M I do this was a

1144
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 2: delicious idea. Well, it's so good.

1145
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: I thought I was gonna say three adjectives light, zippy,

1146
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: and juicy, So I juice really enjoyed it.

1147
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 2: Hoppy, the tropical fruity notes were coming through like crazy.

1148
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 2: They describe it as a murky ipa. But Pure Project

1149
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 2: it makes me I don't know anything about this brewery,

1150
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 2: but we've got another beer from her, and before we

1151
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 2: have that beer, I'm going to look into Pure Project

1152
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 2: and see what they're all about, because it makes me

1153
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 2: think that it sounds like they do something good, right, Yeah,

1154
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 2: but I just don't know what that thing is. Sodime

1155
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 2: on dirty folks. So we'll report back. But Christy, thank

1156
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 2: you so much for donating this beer to the episodes.

1157
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 2: I feel like it's been a minute since I've had

1158
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 2: like a really good, surprisingly good IPA like this.

1159
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, this one delighted me. Definitely top notch. Thank you, Christy.

1160
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:51,240
Speaker 1: All right that Matt's going to do it for this episode.

1161
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: We'll have links in the show notes to all those

1162
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: books that Marco mentioned and some other resources too, including

1163
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 1: Marco's YouTube channel.

1164
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 2: But Matt's going to do it this one. Until next time,

1165
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 2: best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,