Speaker 1: Today on the podcast is the US Ready for the
Speaker 1: Electric Car? We talk about some of the obstacles to
Speaker 1: what everyone says is the future of automobiles, namely, where
Speaker 1: are you going to get the electricity to put in
Speaker 1: your electric car? Hello, you're listening to Parts per Billion,
Speaker 1: the weekly environmental news podcast from Bloomberg Law. I'm your
Speaker 1: host David Schultz. Given how much greenhouse gas emissions come
Speaker 1: from the tailpipes of cars and trucks, it's no secret
Speaker 1: that electric vehicles or evs present one of the most
Speaker 1: significant climate solutions out there right now. It's a point
Speaker 1: not lost on President Biden and Democrats in Congress, who
Speaker 1: just passed an infrastructure bill that contained billions of dollars
Speaker 1: to build new EV charging stations all across America. The
Speaker 1: hope is that if you know you don't have to
Speaker 1: go far to charge up your car, the prospect of
Speaker 1: trading in a gas guzzler for an EV won't sound
Speaker 1: as daunting. But as Liliana Byington found out, those charging
Speaker 1: stations built with the new federal money may not be
Speaker 1: in the most convenient spaces for road tripping EV drivers.
Speaker 1: Liliana is a reporter with our sister news service Bloomberg Government,
Speaker 1: and she joins us today to talk about this potential
Speaker 1: snag and about what those billions of dollars in federal
Speaker 1: funding will actually go to. Yeah, so the Infrastructure Law,
Speaker 1: which as you mentioned, was enacted in November, included five
Speaker 1: billion dollars to states over five years. So that's all
Speaker 1: going to eb chargers. That money is divided up to
Speaker 1: states and they just got their allocations for that, so
Speaker 1: they know how much money they can access from that funding,
Speaker 1: but they still need to submit a plan to the
Speaker 1: federal government about how they would use those dollars in
Speaker 1: order to access them. The Transportation Department and its guidance
Speaker 1: recommended that they put those chargers as close to the
Speaker 1: interstate as possible. The Infrastructure Law also included an additional
Speaker 1: pot of money for this. It's two point five billion
Speaker 1: dollars that will be given out in competitive grants, so
Speaker 1: that will be more of an application process and those
Speaker 1: would be focused on rural and underserved communities for those chargers.
Speaker 1: I see. So that's a lot of money. Who's going
Speaker 1: to be operating these chargers? Is this going to be
Speaker 1: the states operating? Are we going to have you know,
Speaker 1: Maryland Electric Vehicle Charging and Arizona Electric vehicle charging or
Speaker 1: is this going to be private companies who are running these? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so a lot of these plans are still being developed,
Speaker 1: but this money is really intended to kind of spur
Speaker 1: more private investments. So as it is right now, it's
Speaker 1: likely that states would hire private companies to install and
Speaker 1: operate the chargers. It depends on a lot of how
Speaker 1: a lot of the states are going to develop their plans,
Speaker 1: but it really is meant to kind of spur a
Speaker 1: larger effort, more private money to get into this and
Speaker 1: to really shift the country towards EVS, which is a
Speaker 1: big left. Well, there's one problem though, as you just
Speaker 1: reported recently, these electric vehicle charging stations won't really necessarily
Speaker 1: be in the ideal locations. Can you talk about this
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties law that will prevent them from being on
Speaker 1: the highway itself? Right? So, federal law limits commerce at
Speaker 1: interstate rest stops to just things like vending machines, lottery tickets,
Speaker 1: and tourism promotion. So can I sorry to it's lottery tickets.
Speaker 1: Why are lottery tickets allowed? It's unclear why those were
Speaker 1: the things selected, but the law overall is kind of
Speaker 1: intended to push business and keep business in the towns
Speaker 1: and cities where the interstate is close to, so you know,
Speaker 1: that was really the intention of it, is to get
Speaker 1: people off those interstates and into the towns and cities.
Speaker 1: Since the interstate is funded by the federal government, they
Speaker 1: can force people to get off there, and so that's
Speaker 1: where that nineteen fifty six law really came from. That
Speaker 1: prohibited that commerce on the interstate right of way. And
Speaker 1: there are some exceptions to the rule, where as you can,
Speaker 1: like if there's an older rest stop that was you know,
Speaker 1: not there during when this law was created, then that's fine,
Speaker 1: which is why you might see still some on the highway.
Speaker 1: Also if turnpikes, toll roads. There's there's exceptions to the law,
Speaker 1: but largely it prohibited this, which is why you know
Speaker 1: a lot of times you have to pull off to
Speaker 1: get to a gas station. And although there was you know,
Speaker 1: pushed to change this in the Infrastructure law, it was
Speaker 1: not changed and so this nineteen fifty six restriction is
Speaker 1: still in place. Wow, so bad for drivers, but good
Speaker 1: for the towns that are near highways that can get
Speaker 1: the dollars from those drivers. So you mentioned that there
Speaker 1: was a push to get an exemption for EV charging
Speaker 1: stations that in this bill that you know, they could
Speaker 1: pee among the lottery tickets and vending machines. That ultimately
Speaker 1: didn't happen. Why didn't that happen? Why was that unsuccessful? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So some lawmakers and evy groups were pushing to have
Speaker 1: this restriction changed in the infrastructure law, but of course
Speaker 1: it didn't make it in and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: part of that was the opposition. There are groups that
Speaker 1: represent fuel retailers that have opposed this because, you know,
Speaker 1: they say that changing the ban on commercial services at
Speaker 1: these rest stops would hurt private investment. So that would
Speaker 1: kind of box out fuel retailers who aren't on the
Speaker 1: interstate and it would hurt, they argue, hurt the private
Speaker 1: sector from trying to get involved. They want to get in,
Speaker 1: they'll they'll likely try to install EV chargers as well. Oh,
Speaker 1: I see, they want the EV charging stations on their
Speaker 1: own gas stations, not on the rest stops. Right. They
Speaker 1: think that the optimal place for EV chargers would be
Speaker 1: where people are already refueling, which would also help their
Speaker 1: businesses since they are already in those locations. So let's
Speaker 1: talk about how big of a deal this is, because
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about you know, when I take road trips, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes I have to exit the freeway to
Speaker 1: find some a gas station, and you know, I drive
Speaker 1: around a little bit. It's a little annoying, but I
Speaker 1: eventually I find it, but it's ultimately not a huge deal.
Speaker 1: Is this going to be ultimately at most a minor
Speaker 1: inconvenience for electric car drivers or is this could this
Speaker 1: be a bigger deal? Yeah, I think that that answer
Speaker 1: really depends on who you're asking. You know, I've I've
Speaker 1: talked to evy groups and proponents of this that say
Speaker 1: that it'll only be more of a deterrent when people
Speaker 1: have range anxiety concerns. Already, the federal government's try and
Speaker 1: encourage these chargers to be as close to the highway
Speaker 1: as possible, but because they're trying to shift the larger
Speaker 1: public opinion around getting people in these cars. But you know,
Speaker 1: if you talk to fuel retaillers and others who say,
Speaker 1: you know, it shouldn't be a problem if they just
Speaker 1: have to pull off, like you mentioned, you know, there's
Speaker 1: there's kind of different opinions. So it's kind of a
Speaker 1: wait and see if this really effects the way that
Speaker 1: they're doing it or if they decide to change it.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad you brought up the term range anxiety,
Speaker 1: and let's dig into that a little bit. That's the
Speaker 1: idea that you know, you're driving your electric car and
Speaker 1: you know your battery's running out and there's nowhere to
Speaker 1: refuel it. It seems like that's a big impediment to
Speaker 1: people buying electric cars, right, Yeah, So I think that
Speaker 1: people are starting to get more comfortable with them as
Speaker 1: the vehicles have gotten better at their range. But that's
Speaker 1: the whole intent behind this money and behind you know,
Speaker 1: the Buiden administrations push to get out five hundred thousand
Speaker 1: chargers within the next decade across the country is to
Speaker 1: kind of quell that. So I think that that is
Speaker 1: kind of why whether or not this works will determine,
Speaker 1: you know, the prolifilation of these vehicles. So definitely, FILS
Speaker 1: think that there are a lot of people concerned about
Speaker 1: it and hesitant, but they're you know, other concerns with
Speaker 1: costs and and all kinds of things. When it comes
Speaker 1: to the questions still remaining around Davis, Well, that's why
Speaker 1: it's so interesting because it's like almost a Chicken or
Speaker 1: the egg kind of situation in that people won't buy
Speaker 1: electric cars if they're not confident they can charge it
Speaker 1: at a communian location. But then people won't buy charging
Speaker 1: stations if there aren't enough electric cars to justify the demand.
Speaker 1: So I guess that's what the Biden administration is trying
Speaker 1: to do here, is to just sort of create the
Speaker 1: supply so the demand will follow, right, Yeah, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that that was a big intent behind getting a
Speaker 1: good amount of money in the infrastructure law, is to
Speaker 1: kind of push this jump start a lot of this
Speaker 1: investment in places that aren't already seeing some more evs,
Speaker 1: like California, and really push it to other parts of
Speaker 1: the country. If you get that federal dollars there, you
Speaker 1: hope that you push more private dollars that then gets
Speaker 1: people comfortable and seeing these chargers in more places. But finally,
Speaker 1: you know, talking about creating demand, there are other governments
Speaker 1: out there that are creating demand. And what I mean
Speaker 1: by that is that several states now have passed laws
Speaker 1: that would ban the sale of gas power vehicles sometime
Speaker 1: within the next ten to fifteen years, and specifically New
Speaker 1: York and California of both pass these laws, which would
Speaker 1: mean that electric vehicles are going to become kind of
Speaker 1: the only option at the dealership in the twenty thirties
Speaker 1: or you know, at some point around then. Are we
Speaker 1: ready for that? Are we ready for a situation where
Speaker 1: there's just going to be a huge increase in the
Speaker 1: number of electric vehicles on the road in ten years
Speaker 1: or so. Yeah, I think that's something we still are
Speaker 1: kind of we don't know. We don't know whether the
Speaker 1: policies are ready for that, since we just haven't seen
Speaker 1: it yet. I think that there are still a lot
Speaker 1: of questions that people bring up around the electric grid
Speaker 1: and the capabilities of that, and more rural areas and
Speaker 1: agricultural producers have brought up concerns about whether this is
Speaker 1: right for their areas, and so we're kind of seeing
Speaker 1: a lot of questions that are still unanswered and just
Speaker 1: things that we don't know. Like you mentioned, there are
Speaker 1: states that are charging ahead on this, charging ahead there
Speaker 1: you go, that are moving quickly ahead on this, and
Speaker 1: so I think that we'll end up seeing whether or
Speaker 1: not that the policies are ready as we see more
Speaker 1: of this expansion move forward. So I think that those
Speaker 1: questions and whether or not the policies are ready will
Speaker 1: be answered in that as we see it spread. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: that was Lily on a buyington with Vika speaking to
Speaker 1: us about electric vehicles living on it. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for talking. Thanks so much, David. That'll do it
Speaker 1: for today's episode of Parts Pavilion. It was produced by myself,
Speaker 1: David Schultz, and Cheryl Signs. Our editors are Chuck McCutcheon
Speaker 1: and Rebecca Baker, and our executive producer is Josh Block.
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