WEBVTT - Charging Station Locations a Big Obstacle to EVs

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<v Speaker 1>Today on the podcast is the US Ready for the

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<v Speaker 1>Electric Car? We talk about some of the obstacles to

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<v Speaker 1>what everyone says is the future of automobiles, namely, where

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<v Speaker 1>are you going to get the electricity to put in

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<v Speaker 1>your electric car? Hello, you're listening to Parts per Billion,

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<v Speaker 1>the weekly environmental news podcast from Bloomberg Law. I'm your

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<v Speaker 1>host David Schultz. Given how much greenhouse gas emissions come

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<v Speaker 1>from the tailpipes of cars and trucks, it's no secret

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<v Speaker 1>that electric vehicles or evs present one of the most

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<v Speaker 1>significant climate solutions out there right now. It's a point

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<v Speaker 1>not lost on President Biden and Democrats in Congress, who

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<v Speaker 1>just passed an infrastructure bill that contained billions of dollars

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<v Speaker 1>to build new EV charging stations all across America. The

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<v Speaker 1>hope is that if you know you don't have to

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<v Speaker 1>go far to charge up your car, the prospect of

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<v Speaker 1>trading in a gas guzzler for an EV won't sound

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<v Speaker 1>as daunting. But as Liliana Byington found out, those charging

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<v Speaker 1>stations built with the new federal money may not be

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<v Speaker 1>in the most convenient spaces for road tripping EV drivers.

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<v Speaker 1>Liliana is a reporter with our sister news service Bloomberg Government,

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<v Speaker 1>and she joins us today to talk about this potential

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<v Speaker 1>snag and about what those billions of dollars in federal

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<v Speaker 1>funding will actually go to. Yeah, so the Infrastructure Law,

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<v Speaker 1>which as you mentioned, was enacted in November, included five

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<v Speaker 1>billion dollars to states over five years. So that's all

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<v Speaker 1>going to eb chargers. That money is divided up to

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<v Speaker 1>states and they just got their allocations for that, so

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<v Speaker 1>they know how much money they can access from that funding,

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<v Speaker 1>but they still need to submit a plan to the

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<v Speaker 1>federal government about how they would use those dollars in

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<v Speaker 1>order to access them. The Transportation Department and its guidance

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<v Speaker 1>recommended that they put those chargers as close to the

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<v Speaker 1>interstate as possible. The Infrastructure Law also included an additional

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<v Speaker 1>pot of money for this. It's two point five billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars that will be given out in competitive grants, so

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<v Speaker 1>that will be more of an application process and those

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<v Speaker 1>would be focused on rural and underserved communities for those chargers.

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<v Speaker 1>I see. So that's a lot of money. Who's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be operating these chargers? Is this going to be

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<v Speaker 1>the states operating? Are we going to have you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Maryland Electric Vehicle Charging and Arizona Electric vehicle charging or

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<v Speaker 1>is this going to be private companies who are running these? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so a lot of these plans are still being developed,

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<v Speaker 1>but this money is really intended to kind of spur

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<v Speaker 1>more private investments. So as it is right now, it's

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<v Speaker 1>likely that states would hire private companies to install and

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<v Speaker 1>operate the chargers. It depends on a lot of how

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of the states are going to develop their plans,

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<v Speaker 1>but it really is meant to kind of spur a

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<v Speaker 1>larger effort, more private money to get into this and

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<v Speaker 1>to really shift the country towards EVS, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>big left. Well, there's one problem though, as you just

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<v Speaker 1>reported recently, these electric vehicle charging stations won't really necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>be in the ideal locations. Can you talk about this

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifties law that will prevent them from being on

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<v Speaker 1>the highway itself? Right? So, federal law limits commerce at

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<v Speaker 1>interstate rest stops to just things like vending machines, lottery tickets,

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<v Speaker 1>and tourism promotion. So can I sorry to it's lottery tickets.

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<v Speaker 1>Why are lottery tickets allowed? It's unclear why those were

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<v Speaker 1>the things selected, but the law overall is kind of

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<v Speaker 1>intended to push business and keep business in the towns

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<v Speaker 1>and cities where the interstate is close to, so you know,

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<v Speaker 1>that was really the intention of it, is to get

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<v Speaker 1>people off those interstates and into the towns and cities.

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<v Speaker 1>Since the interstate is funded by the federal government, they

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<v Speaker 1>can force people to get off there, and so that's

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<v Speaker 1>where that nineteen fifty six law really came from. That

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<v Speaker 1>prohibited that commerce on the interstate right of way. And

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<v Speaker 1>there are some exceptions to the rule, where as you can,

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<v Speaker 1>like if there's an older rest stop that was you know,

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<v Speaker 1>not there during when this law was created, then that's fine,

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<v Speaker 1>which is why you might see still some on the highway.

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<v Speaker 1>Also if turnpikes, toll roads. There's there's exceptions to the law,

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<v Speaker 1>but largely it prohibited this, which is why you know

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of times you have to pull off to

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<v Speaker 1>get to a gas station. And although there was you know,

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<v Speaker 1>pushed to change this in the Infrastructure law, it was

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<v Speaker 1>not changed and so this nineteen fifty six restriction is

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<v Speaker 1>still in place. Wow, so bad for drivers, but good

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<v Speaker 1>for the towns that are near highways that can get

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<v Speaker 1>the dollars from those drivers. So you mentioned that there

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<v Speaker 1>was a push to get an exemption for EV charging

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<v Speaker 1>stations that in this bill that you know, they could

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<v Speaker 1>pee among the lottery tickets and vending machines. That ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>didn't happen. Why didn't that happen? Why was that unsuccessful? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>So some lawmakers and evy groups were pushing to have

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<v Speaker 1>this restriction changed in the infrastructure law, but of course

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<v Speaker 1>it didn't make it in and I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>part of that was the opposition. There are groups that

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<v Speaker 1>represent fuel retailers that have opposed this because, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they say that changing the ban on commercial services at

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<v Speaker 1>these rest stops would hurt private investment. So that would

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<v Speaker 1>kind of box out fuel retailers who aren't on the

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<v Speaker 1>interstate and it would hurt, they argue, hurt the private

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<v Speaker 1>sector from trying to get involved. They want to get in,

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<v Speaker 1>they'll they'll likely try to install EV chargers as well. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I see, they want the EV charging stations on their

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<v Speaker 1>own gas stations, not on the rest stops. Right. They

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<v Speaker 1>think that the optimal place for EV chargers would be

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<v Speaker 1>where people are already refueling, which would also help their

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<v Speaker 1>businesses since they are already in those locations. So let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about how big of a deal this is, because

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<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking about you know, when I take road trips, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, sometimes I have to exit the freeway to

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<v Speaker 1>find some a gas station, and you know, I drive

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<v Speaker 1>around a little bit. It's a little annoying, but I

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<v Speaker 1>eventually I find it, but it's ultimately not a huge deal.

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<v Speaker 1>Is this going to be ultimately at most a minor

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<v Speaker 1>inconvenience for electric car drivers or is this could this

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<v Speaker 1>be a bigger deal? Yeah, I think that that answer

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<v Speaker 1>really depends on who you're asking. You know, I've I've

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<v Speaker 1>talked to evy groups and proponents of this that say

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<v Speaker 1>that it'll only be more of a deterrent when people

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<v Speaker 1>have range anxiety concerns. Already, the federal government's try and

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<v Speaker 1>encourage these chargers to be as close to the highway

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<v Speaker 1>as possible, but because they're trying to shift the larger

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<v Speaker 1>public opinion around getting people in these cars. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if you talk to fuel retaillers and others who say,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it shouldn't be a problem if they just

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<v Speaker 1>have to pull off, like you mentioned, you know, there's

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<v Speaker 1>there's kind of different opinions. So it's kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>wait and see if this really effects the way that

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<v Speaker 1>they're doing it or if they decide to change it.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm glad you brought up the term range anxiety,

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<v Speaker 1>and let's dig into that a little bit. That's the

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<v Speaker 1>idea that you know, you're driving your electric car and

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<v Speaker 1>you know your battery's running out and there's nowhere to

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<v Speaker 1>refuel it. It seems like that's a big impediment to

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<v Speaker 1>people buying electric cars, right, Yeah, So I think that

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<v Speaker 1>people are starting to get more comfortable with them as

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<v Speaker 1>the vehicles have gotten better at their range. But that's

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<v Speaker 1>the whole intent behind this money and behind you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the Buiden administrations push to get out five hundred thousand

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<v Speaker 1>chargers within the next decade across the country is to

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<v Speaker 1>kind of quell that. So I think that that is

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<v Speaker 1>kind of why whether or not this works will determine,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the prolifilation of these vehicles. So definitely, FILS

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<v Speaker 1>think that there are a lot of people concerned about

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<v Speaker 1>it and hesitant, but they're you know, other concerns with

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<v Speaker 1>costs and and all kinds of things. When it comes

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<v Speaker 1>to the questions still remaining around Davis, Well, that's why

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<v Speaker 1>it's so interesting because it's like almost a Chicken or

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<v Speaker 1>the egg kind of situation in that people won't buy

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<v Speaker 1>electric cars if they're not confident they can charge it

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<v Speaker 1>at a communian location. But then people won't buy charging

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<v Speaker 1>stations if there aren't enough electric cars to justify the demand.

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<v Speaker 1>So I guess that's what the Biden administration is trying

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<v Speaker 1>to do here, is to just sort of create the

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<v Speaker 1>supply so the demand will follow, right, Yeah, Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>think that that was a big intent behind getting a

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<v Speaker 1>good amount of money in the infrastructure law, is to

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<v Speaker 1>kind of push this jump start a lot of this

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<v Speaker 1>investment in places that aren't already seeing some more evs,

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<v Speaker 1>like California, and really push it to other parts of

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<v Speaker 1>the country. If you get that federal dollars there, you

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<v Speaker 1>hope that you push more private dollars that then gets

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<v Speaker 1>people comfortable and seeing these chargers in more places. But finally,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, talking about creating demand, there are other governments

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<v Speaker 1>out there that are creating demand. And what I mean

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<v Speaker 1>by that is that several states now have passed laws

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<v Speaker 1>that would ban the sale of gas power vehicles sometime

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<v Speaker 1>within the next ten to fifteen years, and specifically New

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<v Speaker 1>York and California of both pass these laws, which would

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<v Speaker 1>mean that electric vehicles are going to become kind of

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<v Speaker 1>the only option at the dealership in the twenty thirties

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<v Speaker 1>or you know, at some point around then. Are we

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<v Speaker 1>ready for that? Are we ready for a situation where

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<v Speaker 1>there's just going to be a huge increase in the

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<v Speaker 1>number of electric vehicles on the road in ten years

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<v Speaker 1>or so. Yeah, I think that's something we still are

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<v Speaker 1>kind of we don't know. We don't know whether the

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<v Speaker 1>policies are ready for that, since we just haven't seen

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<v Speaker 1>it yet. I think that there are still a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of questions that people bring up around the electric grid

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<v Speaker 1>and the capabilities of that, and more rural areas and

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<v Speaker 1>agricultural producers have brought up concerns about whether this is

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<v Speaker 1>right for their areas, and so we're kind of seeing

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of questions that are still unanswered and just

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<v Speaker 1>things that we don't know. Like you mentioned, there are

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<v Speaker 1>states that are charging ahead on this, charging ahead there

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<v Speaker 1>you go, that are moving quickly ahead on this, and

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<v Speaker 1>so I think that we'll end up seeing whether or

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<v Speaker 1>not that the policies are ready as we see more

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<v Speaker 1>of this expansion move forward. So I think that those

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<v Speaker 1>questions and whether or not the policies are ready will

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<v Speaker 1>be answered in that as we see it spread. All right, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that was Lily on a buyington with Vika speaking to

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<v Speaker 1>us about electric vehicles living on it. Thank you so

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<v Speaker 1>much for talking. Thanks so much, David. That'll do it

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<v Speaker 1>for today's episode of Parts Pavilion. It was produced by myself,

0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.040
<v Speaker 1>David Schultz, and Cheryl Signs. Our editors are Chuck McCutcheon

0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:55.960
<v Speaker 1>and Rebecca Baker, and our executive producer is Josh Block.

0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Reach out to us on Twitter if you have anything

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<v Speaker 1>on your mind, we use the handle at Environment. Thanks

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<v Speaker 1>everyone for listening, and we'll see you soon. You don't

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<v Speaker 1>need to be a judge to be interested in our

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<v Speaker 1>nation's laws and legal institutions, just like you don't need

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<v Speaker 1>to have a law degree to be curious about the

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<v Speaker 1>inner workings of courts, law firms, and law schools. That's

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<v Speaker 1>where we come in. My name's Adam Allington, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>the host of Uncommon Law, a podcast from the Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Industry Group. Uncommon Law is where public policy, storytelling, and

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<v Speaker 1>the law are combined. We explore big topics ranging from

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