1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Investigators say they knew things 2 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: didn't add up when they came to the house to 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: complete the missing person's report. Smell Ride. There's a foul 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: odor in the house and the detectives ask about that. 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: She says, Oh, I had some rotten meat and I 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: headed in the scene. Okay, I don't like any story 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,279 Speaker 1: that starts off when visitors arrive at the door they 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: smell a foul odor. I guess I should be used 9 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: to that now in my line of business, but I'm not. 10 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: I might see Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: for being with us. You know what, Jackie, I want 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: to hear that one more time. Take aless to our 13 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: friends at ABC. This is Jake Peterson. Investigators say they 14 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: knew things didn't add up when they came to the 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: house to complete the missing person's report. Smell Ride. There's 16 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: a foul odor in the house and the detectives ask 17 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: about that. She says, oh, I had some rotten meat 18 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: and I headed in the scene. Okay. I hardly know 19 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: where to start with that intro. But first of all, 20 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: an all star panel to break it down and put 21 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: it back together again. Joining me, Judge and lawyer Ashley 22 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: Wilcot at Ashley Wilcot dot com, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. 23 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: FBI National Joint Terrorism Task Force, Retired former New Jersey 25 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: Police detective Steve Rogers also with me, renowned psychoanalyst out 26 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: of LA doctor Bethany Marshall and medical examiner for the 27 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: State of Florida. And I got a feeling I'm gonna 28 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: need an Emmy on this one. Doctor Tim Gallagher joining 29 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: us right now to Dave Matt Crime online dot Com 30 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: investigative reporter Dave Matt. It's never a good sign when 31 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: you go to the front door and from the front 32 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: door you smell a foul, you know what, Dave Mack. 33 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: As much as I love you, I'm gonna have to 34 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: go to doctor Gallagher and Joe Scott Morgan on this, 35 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher. People often say, how do you know? 36 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: How do you just know? For instance, remember in the 37 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: Top Mom Casey Anthony case. I'm sure you can't forget 38 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: that coming from the State of Florida. When investigators opened 39 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 1: Top Mom's trunk, they said there was an overwhelming foul odor. 40 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: Remember it top mom's own mother. When she realized Kelly, 41 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: two year old Kelly was missing, she immediately called police 42 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: and says she's been missing for thirty days. It smelled 43 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: like a dead body. In her words, not mine the 44 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: damn car. She is. Cindy Anthony is a lay person. 45 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: She would not be used to the smell of dead bodies. 46 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher sadly, we are. Once you smell that smell, 47 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: you know what it is instinctively. Nobody even needs to 48 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: tell you what it is. Help me out, doctor Gallagher. 49 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: You smell that smell, you know there's a dead body. Oh? Absolutely. 50 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: It's kind of one of the curiosities of nature. It's 51 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: a smell that, once you encounter, you never forget. The 52 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:19,399 Speaker 1: smell of a decomposing human is absolutely different than that 53 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: of anything else, even a decomposing animals or decomposing meat. 54 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: It's a very strong, pungent, sickly sweet smell that once 55 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: you smell it, it could be years before you smell 56 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: it again, and you will recognize it immediately, you know. 57 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: Jose Scott Morgan and professor forensics at Jacksonville State University. 58 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: When I was in law school studying away taking civil 59 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: procedure and tax classes. I had no idea that one 60 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: day I would specialize in the smell of dead human bodies. 61 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: But that's where we are today, Okay, Joe Scott. Every 62 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: sense that you have, every sense is used at a 63 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: I'm seen and when cops open that front door and 64 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: they smell that smell, I mean, their instincts have got 65 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: to kick in. Yeah, they do, Nancy, And you have 66 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: to you have to keep you have to rain that 67 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: in because there's part of our primal brain that goes 68 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,119 Speaker 1: to this idea. You know, doctor Gallery was talking about 69 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: how you don't forget to smell. I think that there's 70 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: something primal about it that causes fear to rise up 71 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: in as humans. And we're all humans, even if you're 72 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: a crime scene investigator. But you have to keep that 73 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: in check and keep your wits about you. But yeah, 74 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: everything's assaulted. Your eyesight, your smell, even your sense of 75 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: touch is impacted by this environment. Straight out to former 76 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: FBI National Joint Terrorism Task for Steve Rogers. Steve, you're 77 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: in New Jersey. I'm sure you were around September eleven, 78 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: as was I in New York. And I'm going to 79 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: make a comparison that day when I walked out of 80 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: court TV, every thing was deserted. I walked right down 81 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: the middle of Park Avenue from let's say thirty ninth 82 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: all the way to fifty fourth. Walking down the middle 83 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: of the street, I mean, that's like walking down I 84 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,239 Speaker 1: seventy five and there are no cars and the smell, 85 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: and I had never smelled it before. And I've been 86 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: on a lot of crime scenes, but the odd smell. 87 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: It smells like burning electrical equipment. I've been on a 88 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: lot of arson scenes where electrical equipment was burned, but 89 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: this had a different smell to it. And I don't 90 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: know if you remember that, but there was a smell 91 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: that you knew that's what it was. And that's how 92 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: I'm comparing this. It's nobody has to tell you or 93 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: explain what it is until a cop. You smell that, 94 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: and you better bring in the cadaver dogs, well can Nancy, 95 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: You're right And as your yes you said, it's a 96 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: smell that lives with you forever. It's something that you 97 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: do not forget. And look when the police officers in 98 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: this case, and I know in past cases when we 99 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: did go into areas where you knew your instate kicked 100 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: in that there was a dead body, which goes into 101 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: mine now as your training and that is you have 102 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: a crime scene here, you need to protect it. You 103 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: need to bring as you say, the dogs in and 104 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: then begin an investigation. To Dave Matt, Crime online dot 105 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, Dave, explain to me why were cops 106 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: there and who answered the door. Cheyenne Jesse called in 107 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: a missing person's report on her father and her daughter, 108 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: claiming that they had left town and that she hadn't 109 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: heard from them in quite some time. So police came 110 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: out the next morning to do a follow up report 111 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: with her based on her phone calls that they were gone, 112 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: and it was, as you said, right at the front door. 113 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: They're there to follow upon a missing person's report and 114 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: they're hit with the smell. So let me ask you this, doctor, 115 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, you heard what Dave Matt just said. Bethany, 116 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: have you ever gone in somebody's house where they have 117 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: a lot of pets and apparently they don't know it 118 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: stinks like it smells like overwhelmingly like urine. The other 119 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: day I got a lead on a cold case and 120 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: went to a scene, a rural scene way out in 121 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: the country with canines, and before I left out a 122 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: long drive back, I asked, the people kind of used 123 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: their bathroom. So I came in. The moment I stepped 124 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,559 Speaker 1: in the house, it was it almost knocked me out. 125 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: It was like someone had poured ammonia. And I went, wow, 126 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: you have such a beautiful home, because to look at it, 127 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: the home was neat as a pin. It was perfectly 128 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: in place. They ended up. I found out they had 129 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: eight cats that lived in the house. Long story short, 130 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: this person has I mean, can they not smell the 131 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: smell on the house. They just answered the door like 132 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: nothing's wrong. Can't they spray some light or something for 133 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: pete saite? Do they are they immune to it? You know, Nancy, 134 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes not only do people not smell, sometimes they don't see, 135 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: especially hoarders or people who have mental illness. I'm treating 136 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: a couple in my Beverly health practice where they come 137 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: in dressed beautifully. You know, the wife nailed, are perfectly done, 138 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: her hair, she's in the beauty industry, and the husband 139 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: keeps complaining the house is messy. And I didn't I 140 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: thought he was just being a complainer. He sent me 141 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: pictures from his iPad the other day. You would think 142 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: it was a homeless encampment inside their house. She cannot 143 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: see the mess and she has bipolar illness. There's debris 144 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: piled everywhere, there's a dog. The dog defecates in the house. 145 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 1: It's like somebody just threw up all of their possessions 146 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: all over the place. So yeah, sometimes people don't smell, 147 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: sometimes they don't see, and often it's a variant of 148 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: obsessive compulsive disorder. But it's a very shocking situation to 149 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: go into a house and to know that somebody has 150 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: no idea the squalor they're living. In Crime Stories with 151 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, the mother Cheyenne Jesse, reported the two missing 152 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: to deputies yesterday morning. She said maybe they were in Georgia. 153 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: Turns out they weren't in Georgia. They were just about 154 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: a half mile down the road at the landlord's house. 155 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: In this storage shed is where deputies found the bodies 156 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: of Mark Weekley and his granddaughter Meredith Jesse. Investigators say 157 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: Cheyenne Jesse killed the two in her father's home around 158 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 1: July eighteenth. A gun and a knife were used deputy 159 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: says she hid the bodies inside the home for a 160 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: few days, then put the bodies in toats. Eventually she 161 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: put the totes in this storage shed. Wow, you are 162 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: hearing from our friend at ABC Action News. That was 163 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: j Peterson. That is extremely rare, guys, to be accused 164 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: of murdering not only your father but your child, and 165 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: then to keep the bodies in your home before you 166 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: transport them in toakes elsewhere. Hold on, Todave Matt Crime 167 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter. Let's just start at the beginning. 168 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: Go ahead, start with a welfare checky yell, Let me 169 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: hear the whole thing. The missing person report, Okay. Shyanne 170 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: Jesse called in a missing person's report on her father 171 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: and her daughter, saying that her father had taken her 172 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: six year old daughter and gone to Georgia from their 173 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: home in Florida. When police came to do the follow 174 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: up interview to find out more information, they were hit, 175 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: as you said, right at the door, with that foul 176 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: smell that they immediately recognized as decomposition. They proceeded into 177 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: the house where they saw candles they could tell they 178 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: were air fresheners everywhere, and that she seemed to not 179 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: be aware of her surroundings and that it was bad. 180 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: They also noticed inside the living room what appeared to 181 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: be bloodstains on the couch on a love seat, as 182 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: well as cut marks that appeared to be made in 183 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: the couch and a love seat from a knife. They 184 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: could see blood spatter on the walls. It was all 185 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: right there to be seen and shy, and Jesse was 186 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: trying to tell them a story for dad taking off 187 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: with her daughter and going to North Georgia to the 188 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: medical examiner from the state of Florida, very well known 189 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: doctor Tim Gallagher. Doctor Gallagher, is there any way you 190 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: can estimate how many homicide scenes you've been to? Oh, 191 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: that's a good question, Nancy. It seems to be more 192 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: and more of these days, unfortunately, but I would estimate 193 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: it's getting close to four or five hundred by now. 194 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: You know that same way here I try people ask 195 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: me how many cases I've tried, how many cases I've handled. 196 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: It's up in the thousands. And I know that's hard 197 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: to take in. But when you look at having been 198 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: in criminal law for years and years and years and 199 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: you just do the math, that's how many it is. Guys. 200 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: Medical examiners don't just sit in the morga all day 201 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: waiting for a dead body to show up. They have 202 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: typically a fleet of investigators that also investigate homicide scenes 203 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: right along with homicide investigators, cops, sheriffs. They go to 204 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 1: the scenes very very often. You know, it's amazing to me, 205 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher, how police keep doing what they're doing. They 206 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: come in, they've got this woman saying, my father and 207 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: my daughter are gone. They took off their missing The 208 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: cops can smell a dead body. They see blood on 209 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: the sofa and on the walls, and this woman is 210 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: speaking to them like she doesn't notice it. Doctor Gallagher, 211 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: how many crazy bizarre situations have you been in when 212 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: you go to a crime scene? I mean, what do 213 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: you recall? What do you do in that circumstance. Well, 214 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: you know, again another good question, that's going to a 215 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: bizarre scene is kind of the normal thing for me. Now. 216 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I lecture quite extensively throughout 217 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: the United States and a couple of countries, you know, 218 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: just on that. You know, it's it's just too numerous 219 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: to mention. You know, over time, as you realize you 220 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: develop a sixth sense as to whether somebody is telling 221 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: you the truth or whether they're trying to deceive you, 222 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: and you and the police officers do develop this sixth 223 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: sense or so whatever you want to call it, and 224 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: become very skeptical and become very suspicious and then intensify 225 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: their investigation. Joe Scott, let me refer to you by 226 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: your professional name, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor Forresick Jackson State University, 227 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: an author of Blood Beneath My Feet. You know a 228 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: lot of people will be repelled by that title. Not me. 229 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: It made me want to get it immediately and read it. 230 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, when you go to a saint, this, this 231 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: is what is you know. I try to work a 232 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: case out like a Rubic's cube, and I work it 233 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: and work it until I try to figure it out. 234 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: How can she go to the door. The whole place 235 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: smells like a dead body. She calls the cops. She 236 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: calls the cops to the crime scene. They come in. 237 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: There's blood on the sofa, there's a blood on the walls. 238 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: And she's looking at them with a straight face, saying, 239 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: her dad and her little girl left, they went out 240 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: of town. And she's actually filing a missing person's report, 241 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: and she's been telling her relatives the same thing that 242 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: they took off. Yeah, you know, if it wasn't so tragic, 243 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: you would you know, it could be in Hollywood as 244 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: a comedy routine. And one of the interesting things, Nancy, 245 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: that I have found over my years working cases is 246 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: the fact that a lot of people may witness or 247 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: participate in the ending of someone's life, but then at 248 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: the end of the day, they have no idea, they 249 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: have no idea what to do with dead bodies. Because 250 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: that's the problem, isn't it. You enter into something that 251 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: escalates really quickly. You end somebody's life in some ghastly manner, 252 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: but then you're stuck with the bodies. What do I 253 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: do with them? And here she's left with this carnage 254 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: that's at the home. You've got the sofa that's been 255 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: sliced up, You've got blood stains everywhere, and then this 256 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: odor that permeates everything. How do you explain this away 257 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: to the authorities too? Dator Bethany Marshall, psychoanais joining me 258 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: out of la you know what, Joscott Morgan said, hold on, 259 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: I'm right now being joined by Ashley Wilcott, judge and 260 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: trial lawyer. You can find her at Ashley Wilcott dot com. 261 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: Before I go to Bethany for a professional opinion, Ashley, 262 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: you're in court every day, sitting on the bench, hearing 263 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: stories just like this. We're talking about the scene, the blood, 264 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: the smell. But think about it, her daughter, Meredith is 265 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: just six years old. I'm sure you can remember your 266 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: children at age six. I mean, we're talking about the 267 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: crime scene very clinically and marveling, and how she can't 268 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: figure out that everybody can smell dead bodies, but her 269 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: and her father fifty and her daughter six. I mean, 270 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: let's bring this to life. We're not talking about some 271 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: clinical scene that Joe Scott Morgan presents his students at 272 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University. This is real and if this is true, 273 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: this twenty five year old woman has murdered not only 274 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: her father but her sixty year old little child. Yeah, 275 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: and don't forget the first responders when they walk in 276 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: and see all this, that's what they think about, Nancy, 277 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: not just preserving the scene to collect evidence, but that's 278 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: their immediate gut. They're like, what do you mean she's 279 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: talking about a father who's disappeared and her six year 280 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: old daughter. And you have to realize, I as a 281 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: judge them on the first responders, your heart sinks because 282 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: you think, oh my gosh, this means the inevitable bill. 283 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: There has been some brutal, terrific situation in which a 284 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: six year old and an older father are most likely gone. 285 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: And so it is. It's devastating to those have to 286 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: respond and hear what's actually happening to two people. And 287 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: you know, doctor Bethany Marshall, I'm just trying to wrap 288 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: my head around it because typically when I go to 289 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: court and I know you're going to back me up 290 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: on this, Ashley, I occasionally would look over at the 291 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: defendant and think why. I mean, do they have any 292 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: idea about the wake of pain they've left behind them? 293 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: But the state's job is not to prove why. Although 294 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: Jerry likes to hear a motive, but I don't get it. 295 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: How can somebody be so delusional that they can't smell 296 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: what nearly knocks everybody out on the front porch? They 297 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: what are they immune? Do they not notice all the 298 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: blood stains and the sofa ripped up? And then the 299 00:17:54,160 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: story that they're telling doctor Bethany Marshall, I've prosecuted and 300 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: covered cases where children kill their parents. It's extremely rare. 301 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: How rare is it? It's parenticide? Mattri's side, Patris side. 302 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: To not only kill your father, How rare is that? 303 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 1: How rare is it to kill your own child? Nancy? 304 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: It is extremely rare because usually when a parent kills 305 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: a child, like we think of Kasey Anthony, they're killing 306 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: the child because they are either getting back at another 307 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: caretaker or another parent, or they're getting the child out 308 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: of the way so they can have some idealized life. 309 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: Maybe she met a new guy, Maybe she met a boyfriend, 310 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: she was dating somebody. She felt that if she had 311 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: her six year old little girl, that six year old 312 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: little girl would get in the way. This is what 313 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: we saw with Casey Anthony. Right she started dating, she 314 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: was out on a strip or pole, she was out shopping. 315 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: She wanted to she wanted to have a love life, 316 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: and her little girl was in her few. But then 317 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: to change, to take the homicidal instinct that you have 318 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: towards your child and then directed towards your parent at 319 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: the same time. I actually can't think of the case 320 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: right now. Where a person kills both the parent and 321 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: the child, usually it's one or the other. Take a 322 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: listen to our friend Hannah Lawrence WTVC. Chayanne Jesse grew 323 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: up in both Walker and Catoosa Counties. That's where I 324 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: found her family earlier. Today, family members describe what they 325 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: saw in the Florida home where Mark Weakley and his 326 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: granddaughter were brutally murdered. The blood trail. It's just unreal 327 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: to snail and to chake and scoop and love her 328 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: shovel and quton and toats and a moutin two hundred yards. 329 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: I don't see how she could do it. Police and 330 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: Florida say Cheyenne Jesse got in a fight with her 331 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: father on July eighteenth before she killed him. She's in 332 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: jail tonight, accused of also shooting and stabbing her six 333 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: year old daughter to death before hiding both of their bodies. 334 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: Keith submitted that she's stout it. She's confessed crime stories 335 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Jesse's family got a call from her 336 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: on July twenty eighth saying her dad and daughter were 337 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: missing to cover up the murder, but her stories didn't 338 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: match up. Supposedly Mark was supposed to have cancer. She 339 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: couldn't answer which doctor he went to see cancer. Janna 340 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: says her stories always seemed to contradict themselves, so when 341 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: they found out Jesse confessed to the murder, they realized 342 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: why she was beginning to make up stories. Just all 343 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: started falling back into place, all the comments and everything 344 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: that she had said before him. But for Jesse's former 345 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: classmate Polly Bridges, this was a big surprise. I was 346 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: shocked because I couldn't really she did it because she 347 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: was she was friendly, tell you in school? Why I 348 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: just our friends. Stephanie Stennistazzi at WTVC reporting on two 349 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: dead bodies, I Meancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank 350 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: you for being with us. To Dave Matt Crime online 351 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter. So I'm understanding that she this 352 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 1: person twenty five year olds Cheyenne Jesse, a young mom, 353 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: murders her six year old daughter, Meredith and her father 354 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: Mark fifty. That's overwhelming to me that she could overcome 355 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: her father, Anne had the heart to murder her own daughter. 356 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: But I believe you mentioned she put their bodies in 357 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:52,479 Speaker 1: toats and tried to hide them at a neighbor's yes, ma'am. 358 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: After the killings, she actually left them on the floor 359 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 1: where they died for four days. For four days, those 360 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: bodies decomposed in that house, she left them. But after 361 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: that fourth day she came back to the house and 362 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: she was hit with the smell like we've talked about already, 363 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: and decided that she had to do something. She claims 364 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: that she had seen a TV show and got the 365 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: idea of hiding their bodies in totes, the big plastic 366 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: tubs that we get. She scooped the bodies up because 367 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: they were decomposing, put them in the toats, and then 368 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: loaded them in the back of an suv and drove 369 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: them to a shed a couple hundred yards out the 370 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: back door of this house and stashed the bodies there. 371 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: You know, it's actually the show Criminal Minds. So I 372 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: guess Dr Bethany Marshall, this was all like a TV 373 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: show to her. She got the idea of disposing with 374 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: the bodies from the TV show Criminal Minds. Well, what 375 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: it tells me is that this was not premeditated. That sure, 376 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: maybe she saw a TV show. Maybe she thought it 377 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: would unfold in some prettable way where she could easily 378 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: hide the bodies, but Napcy she did not adequately prepare 379 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: a dumpsite. You know, most people who commit homicide think 380 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: ahead just a little bit about where they are going 381 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: to store those bodies, and usually it's not in a 382 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: plastic bin at a neighbor's house. You know, they think 383 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: ahead that there's going to be an odor or a 384 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: smell that you know, they're going to have to clean 385 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: up the crime scene. She was in some kind of 386 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: a state where she did not see what the house 387 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: looked like. She did not imagine people could see into 388 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: her and into the nature of the crime that she 389 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 1: had just committed. It helps me again, she might might 390 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 1: have been in some kind of a psychiatric state. Perhaps 391 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: she's very low functioning. Perhaps she's profoundly selfish and she's 392 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: gotten away with everything in her wife, so she can't 393 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: imagine that she would also not get away with this. 394 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: But or she's just lue low IQ. But something's wrong 395 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: with her because she didn't see in herself what other 396 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: people immediately saw in her. Doctor Bethany Marshall no offense, 397 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: But have you ever seen a criminal case where you 398 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: don't think somebody's mentally ill. Ever, no, no, actually okay, 399 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: because in my mind, and we just heard who said 400 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: this was not premeditated, Oh it was you. Sorry, doctor Bethan, 401 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: need to pick on you. But as she willcot, premeditation 402 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: does not require a long plan so that she's poisoning 403 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: someone over a period of weeks or months. No premeditation 404 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: can be formed in the twinkling of an eye when 405 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: you raise the gun of polar trigger. That's long enough 406 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: for premeditation. And the law looks at it like that, 407 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: because it doesn't matter if you were poisoned or shot 408 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: in the head, you're dead, okay, And if you have 409 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: a moment to consider it under the law, that qualifies 410 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: as premeditation. Absolutely it happens a second. You're absolutely right, Nancy. 411 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: The other thing that I have to say is premeditation 412 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: is one aspect of it. But the other aspect I 413 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: always want people to keep in mind is this mental 414 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: health diagnoses, right, the DSM five. That's one thing that 415 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: is different from an insanity defense in court. And so 416 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: I often see unfortunately heinous crimes like this where a 417 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: parent might have some type of mental health diagnosis, which 418 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: is very legitimate, very real needs treatment, but that does 419 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: not necessarily mean they were insane under the legal definition. 420 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,959 Speaker 1: As a defense to Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, author 421 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, you go into 422 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: a scene like this, what's the first thing you do? 423 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: And remember, she got a lead on you. It's been 424 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: days since these murders occurred. But I mean, I gotta 425 00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: believe Joe Scott that leaving the bodies to decompose on 426 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: the dining room floor for almost a week, you gotta 427 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: have a lot of forensic cabinets. So where do we start? Boy, 428 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: we do. We've got a basket full of Nancy And 429 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: to quote, to quote one of my forensic heroes and 430 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: the father of modern forensics, Edmund lecard to, every contact 431 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: leaves a trace, So it doesn't matter, it doesn't really 432 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: matter how long it has been since the crime was 433 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: actually committed. Every time she has contacted the body, all 434 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: of the injuries that have resulted as a result of 435 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: her crimes that will leave a trace. Moving the bodies 436 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 1: about she's got there might be drag marks that are 437 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: left behind, say in the blood that's trailed to wherever 438 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: she's manipulating the bodies. It sounds like she had a 439 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: long time with these bodies. Then getting the bodies out 440 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: of her residence and into these plastic containers. Again, you're 441 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: creating more evidence by transferring it over and then placing 442 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: it in a vehicle and transporting it. So literally, what 443 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: we have is a primary scene where this was perpetrated, 444 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: we have a kind of an intermediate scene with the vehicle, 445 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: and then we have a final resting spot. So every 446 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: time she has contacted something that could be through her hands, 447 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: she might be stepping in blood. And then not to 448 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: mention whatever weapon she's used, I think I've heard knife 449 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: and in firearm. Everything is going to leave a trace 450 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: behind to doctor Tim Gallagher, are renowed medical examder, joining 451 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: me out of the state of Florida, Doctor Gallagher. So 452 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: she got to jump on the cops. There has been 453 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: quite a period of time since she allegedly stabbed her 454 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: father twelve times and shot him, and then you've got 455 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: the daughter to deal with too. What can you expect 456 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: to find when bodies have been put in those containers 457 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: and so much time has elapsed. Well, unfortunately, here in Florida, 458 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: that's not an uncommon scene to attend what typically happens 459 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: after you get past the odor when you open up 460 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: these totes, and especially if their waterproof, as the body decomposes, 461 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: it releases a lot of fluids, a lot of the 462 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: decompositional fluids in that is the decompositional bacteria, which provides 463 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,239 Speaker 1: you the pungent or actually the putrid odor. A lot 464 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: of the times we've come across scenes in this way 465 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: where people are in barrels in these fifty five gallon 466 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: drums and their entire body is liquefied and all that 467 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: is left is the bones. But in this case, more 468 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: than likely the skin has turned black, the flesh has 469 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: gone liquefied, and most of the organs are decomposed at 470 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: this state. Well, in a state like that, how can 471 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: you tell that he has been stabbed multiple times? I mean, 472 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: how with the body decomposing in that manner, how can 473 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: you come up with a cod cause of death? That's 474 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: a good question, a lot of it, and you'll had 475 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: to inspect the bones. You'll see butcher type marks on 476 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: the bones, and you can also see bullet wounds, especially 477 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: if it's through the skull. Those are very well deserved 478 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: in cases of decomposition, guys, I don't understand what could 479 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: possibly be a motive to kill your child and your dad. 480 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend at WTVC, Hannah Laurence. 481 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: Shy and Jesse went to middle school and some of 482 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: high school and Ringold before graduating from Ridgeland High School. 483 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: Jesse and her daughter had her daughter, Meredith a year later, 484 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: and that's when they moved to Florida with Jesse's father, 485 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: Mark Weekly. Jesse's aunt and uncle tell me that she 486 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: called them on July twenty eighth to say that Weekly 487 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: and her daughter were missing. On August second, boxes containing 488 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: their bodies were found in her father's shed. According to 489 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: Polk County officials in Florida, Jesse shot and stabbed the 490 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: two on July eighteenth before her parents safe something whatnot, 491 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: and she called till the twenty. I had to call 492 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: us to even let us know that they were supposedly missing. 493 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: But she had text fifteen different people, two different stories. 494 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: Because me and Mama Janice Weekly, I would mean herd 495 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: meet up and read each other's taxes off to each other, 496 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: and her said one time, mind said nothing. Crime stories 497 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, investigators say they knew things didn't add 498 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: up when they came to the house to complete the 499 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: missing person's reports. It's all right. There's a foul odor 500 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: in the house, and the detectives asked about that, and 501 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: she says, oh, I had some rotten meat and I 502 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: headed in the sink. She made the statement that she 503 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: saw criminal minds on television and that gave her the 504 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: idea to put the bodies in the Toads. Family friend 505 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: Fred Poor says Weekly was very close to his granddaughter. 506 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: You take his life the baby. Sheriff Grady Judd says 507 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: Jesse did not like her daughter, and she showed little 508 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: emotion through the interview process. Shy Anne Jesse is charlesed 509 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: with two counts of murder. Well, our friend Jake Peterson 510 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: and ABC Action News didn't like her daughter. I mean, children, 511 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: of course, can be very irritating and drive you crazy sometimes, 512 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: but that overwhelming love you have for them, it's hard 513 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: for me to imagine not liking your child. Cops arrive 514 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: for a missing person's report, they're just knocked over at 515 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: the front door by the smell of dead bodies. They 516 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: can't help but notice blood on the sofa and elsewhere. 517 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: But where is Mark Weekly? Shyne Jesse's dad and her 518 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: six year old little girl, Meredith. It doesn't take long 519 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: for cops to figure it out. But I'm trying to 520 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: determine any motive to make her stab her dad and 521 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: Dave Matt, what was the cod on the little six 522 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: year old girl? What's the potential motive, Dave Matt, the 523 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: actual cod we had, Mark Weekly was shot three times 524 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: in the head. Meredith, the six year old girl, she 525 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: was shot once in the head. Now they both had 526 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: stab wounds, but they're having trouble determining how many stab wounds. 527 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: There actually is a motive, and it centers around We're 528 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: going back to the Casey Anthony thing of relationships, and 529 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: Cheyenne had been in a relationship with a man for 530 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: a number of months, actually living with him. It was 531 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: the relationship that she had with her daughter, Meredith that 532 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: caused the new boyfriend to back out of a marriage proposal. 533 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: They had a very contentious relationship. He talked about it 534 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: at length that Cheyenne and her daughter constantly fought. They 535 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: constantly didn't get along. And imagine a six year old 536 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: child arguing with a mother and a mother who's not 537 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: bellwell balanced. This was a volable relationship and the one 538 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: thing we've been able to figure out. And you heard 539 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: the man make the comment. Her dad, Mark Weekly, loved 540 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: his granddaughter Meredith and never would let anything happen to her. 541 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: But Cheyenne was the mom and she did not like 542 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: her daughter at all. Okay, you know what all this 543 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: business about not liking the daughter? Asked you, Wilcot, judge lawyer. 544 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: You can find her at asked you Wilcot dot com. 545 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: I feel sick. I feel sick because this is all 546 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: over a man. No offense, Doctor Gallagher, Joe Scott, Steve 547 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: Rogers and Dave Mack. But over a man. You know, 548 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: my grandmother used to say, you know what men are 549 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: like buses. There'll be a new one that'll come along 550 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: in about fifteen minutes. I mean, no offense, guys, because 551 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: you're awesome, But over a man, you would kill your 552 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: own child. I mean, do I have to say? Top 553 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: mum casey Anthony? Even further back, Susan Smith that got 554 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,439 Speaker 1: rid of all of her little boys, strapping them into 555 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,720 Speaker 1: their seat belts and pushing the car into the water 556 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: and watching it go down so she could marry the 557 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: rich single guy in town who was so not in 558 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: love with her. I mean, I don't get it. Do 559 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: you need a man that badly? Ashley? I don't get 560 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: it either, And you know Nancy or the question it 561 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: always begs the question for man again. I see a 562 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: lot of this on the bench, and the question becomes, 563 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,479 Speaker 1: why did they get to have chunching in the first place, 564 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: because clearly they're not going to have the protective capacity. 565 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: They're going to choose a man, choose a partner, choose 566 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: a person over their child. In my world, I see 567 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: it way too often. I will never understand it. I 568 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: will never get it. But that's what these criminals do 569 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: and they should not have children in their care. The 570 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: last thing I have to say, you have to wonder 571 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: how she treated that six year year old child during 572 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: the six year old child's life, because I do not 573 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: believe that it comes from being a doting mother for 574 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: six years and taking amazing care of this child too. 575 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to kill the child today. I suspect that 576 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 1: child was abused and neglected during the six years. Doctor 577 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, I couldn't agree with Ashley Moore with me, 578 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: renowned psychoanalyst out of la and boy I bet you've 579 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: got a lot of business out there. I told you, 580 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: every time I go out there, it looks like I'm 581 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: on another planet. Do you remember the story I tells you, 582 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany. When I went down, I called it Rodeo Drive. 583 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:39,280 Speaker 1: I was quickly corrected rodeo drive. And all the women 584 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: were super tall, super like abnormally skinny, with big fake prestesses, 585 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: and they perfectly tinted. I mean, it looked natural. But 586 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: everybody can't be blonde, okay, statistically, I mean. And I 587 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: just came home feeling really pad about myself to keep 588 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: telling myself that's not real. Okay, that's just that's not real. 589 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: So I guess you. I guess you have a lot 590 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 1: of business. But back to this case, I don't get 591 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: it over a man. And first of all, I don't 592 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: believe that she could have a normal relationship with anybody, 593 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:25,280 Speaker 1: a normal, happy relationship. And so I doubt pretty seriously 594 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: that this guy whoever has said I'd love to marry you, 595 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 1: Shyenne Jesse, except for that six year old daughter. That's 596 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: the fly in the ointment, that's the quote from Caddyshack, 597 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: turn in the punch Bowl. I mean, I don't believe 598 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: that for one minute either. However, in his court testimony, 599 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: he seemed to blame the little girl, saying that the 600 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: little girl was I forget what language he used, but 601 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,240 Speaker 1: that the little girl was difficult, that, as our reporter 602 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: just said, the mother and child had a contentious relationship, 603 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: as if the six year old could really fight with 604 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: a mother in a prolonged way. So it could be 605 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,839 Speaker 1: that both of them aligned to themselves against the little 606 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 1: girl and you know, a paranoid way, it's all her fault. Okay, 607 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: wait a minute, Wait a minute. I've seen these situations 608 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,720 Speaker 1: where the one, especially in Adrian Jones, the stepmother led 609 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: the natural father into the abuse. They both did it, 610 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 1: but it's like the parents gang up on the child. Okay, 611 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: what a horrible, horrible life for this six year old 612 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: little girl with her mom and the boyfriend ganging up 613 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: on her. But I want you to take yeah, I 614 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to our friend Cameron 615 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: Polam and ABC Action. Niese, in her own words, accused 616 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: murderer shy and Jesse explains to police the fear that 617 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: forced her to take matters into her own hands so 618 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: many times, and I just save with her. Essie is 619 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 1: talking about her six year old daughter, Meredith, telling detectives 620 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: she was so afraid of the little girl she had 621 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: to hide the kitchen knives. For the first time since 622 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 1: the bodies of Jesse's daughter and father, Mark Weekly, were 623 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: discovered at the family home in August, we're hearing the 624 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: original interrogation of the only suspect, one in which detectives 625 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: say Jesse lied and misled them around each corner, first 626 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: claiming her father and daughter had run off, then saying 627 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: the killings happened in self defense. To make sure that 628 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,720 Speaker 1: I'm not alone with her because of her mentality. Meredith 629 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: had recently been diagnosed with bipolar disorder shortly before the murders, 630 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: Detectives describing Jesse as worried a new relationship might sour 631 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: due to her problems at home. I hadn't had a 632 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: lot of mental problems, but I don't think that I 633 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 1: had never shoot George ADNERD dollars. You know a lot 634 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: of people have bipolar That does not equal insanity. I 635 00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: want to go to former FBI National Joint Terrorism Ask Force, 636 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: former cop police detective Steve Rogers, Steve, how do you 637 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,760 Speaker 1: go about proving this because I find it really difficult 638 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 1: to believe that this mother killed in self defense, that 639 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: she was finding with her father and she killed him, 640 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: and that she was quote afraid of her six year 641 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: old little girl. How with a forensic evidence do you 642 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: disprove that? Well, to begin with, Nancy, let's keep in 643 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: mind that, Look, the mother had the presence of mind 644 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: to plan an elibi, that's number one. She also had 645 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: the presence of mind to plan a cover up. So 646 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: you know, when when we go down the road of 647 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: this type of investigation, yes, we interview friends, Yes we 648 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: interview relatives, We look at all of the physical evidence, 649 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,479 Speaker 1: but we also looked at the elibi, and they cover 650 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: up and and and that's how you prove it. Look, 651 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: it's when a person creates an elibi, as you know, 652 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: and does what she did to cover up the crime. 653 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: It points towards the fact that the person is absolutely, 654 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: without a doubt, guilty of committing this crime. So you know, 655 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: it'll go back to motive. Your prior guests did talk 656 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: about a motive, but at the end of the day, 657 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: the person hangs themselves through what they you know, to 658 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, I still don't understand why she were com 659 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: police report her daughter and father missing, especially with the 660 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,760 Speaker 1: overwhelming smell of decomposing bodies and blood on the sofa. 661 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: Why would she do that, Auntie. It's very curious to 662 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 1: me too. I think that some criminals do not see 663 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: in themselves what other people see in them. Remember Casey Anthony, 664 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: she as soon as her daughter went missing, as I 665 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: said earlier, she was out on this trip or pole, 666 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: she was out partying. She went to her boyfriend's house. 667 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: She you know, she lived like La Bella vita, like 668 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: her tattoo, and she didn't imagine that other people that 669 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: that would arouse suspicion in others. I really think that 670 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: they tell themselves lies. They tell themselves that they haven't 671 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,439 Speaker 1: done anything wrong, and if they don't think they've done 672 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: anything wrong, other people will not think they've done anything wrong. 673 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: They're like little kids who, you know, eat the cookie 674 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: out of take the cookie out of the cookie jar 675 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: as soon as the parent leaves the room, and the 676 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: parent comes in back in and says, where's the cookie, Oh, 677 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,240 Speaker 1: I didn't eat it. You know, very transparent kinds of lies. 678 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: It comes from a very childlike way of viewing the world. 679 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: I guess they convinced themselves. They've got all their bases 680 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 1: covered and they start believing their lie, like Tom mom 681 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 1: or like O. J. Simpson or Susan Smith. Question to you, 682 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,399 Speaker 1: Dave Matt Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, is it true? Now? 683 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 1: This is going to just push me over the edge 684 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: if you say yes that CPS Child Protective Services had 685 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,399 Speaker 1: been at the home the day before the last day 686 00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: Meredith was seen alive. If so, plain to me why 687 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,800 Speaker 1: and why'd they leave the little girl there? Child Protective 688 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: Services had been involved with this family with the relationship 689 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: between Cheyenne and Meredith. The report that we're getting is 690 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: that a family member who was down there visiting the 691 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 1: week before all this took place, witnessed Meredith with fresh 692 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,839 Speaker 1: bruising about her neck, back and chest and actually entered 693 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,280 Speaker 1: into a discussion with Meredith where, according to this relative, 694 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: Meredith said that Child Protective Services was threatening to take 695 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,160 Speaker 1: away the child and she would never let that happen. 696 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 1: So they got into a conversation with Cheyenne Jesse about 697 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 1: her daughter and they see the daughter's face, did you 698 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:49,280 Speaker 1: say face, chest and arms, her neck back and chest, 699 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 1: nick back and chest covered in bruises, I mean, Ashley Wilcott, 700 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: really you're the juvenile expert. It why I mean, I 701 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,959 Speaker 1: know I sound like a broken record, but I feel 702 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 1: like we should just fire everybody would defacts as a CPS, 703 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,760 Speaker 1: move out of the building and just start over, because 704 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: I believe that they should all be put in jail. 705 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,480 Speaker 1: I just can't Sometimes take another child abused, they know 706 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 1: about it and they do nothing and the child is killed. Yeah, 707 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,560 Speaker 1: system fail. You know, I've said that so many times 708 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,400 Speaker 1: on your show. I sound like a broken record. And 709 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 1: here's the thing. I know a lot of individual case managers, 710 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,800 Speaker 1: supervisors for defects, very good people, very well intentioned to 711 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: do an excellent job. The problem is when you have 712 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: these children that fall through the cracks, when you have 713 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: marks and bruises on a child and it is not 714 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,200 Speaker 1: something that can be explained by a very normal, correct 715 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: way of For instance, they were on their scooter and 716 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 1: fell in the street and these are the scrapes and 717 00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 1: this looks like the scrapes. They're very different types of 718 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 1: bruises and marks. So you have an instance like in 719 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: this case that's just been described, the child cannot remain 720 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: where the child's at risk, and so I couldn't agree 721 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 1: with you more. It's a system fail that it's so 722 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 1: preventative to prevent the child from then being killed by 723 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: the mother. It just is mind blowing. In this case, 724 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: police have called it a double murder of the worst kind. 725 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,879 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this and then a Lakeland mother 726 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: could be sent to death row for murdering her daughter 727 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,720 Speaker 1: and father. Cheyenne Jesse found out her fate late tonight. 728 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,760 Speaker 1: A jury found her guilty earlier this week of shooting 729 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,280 Speaker 1: them and stabbing the two back in twenty fifteen. Jesse 730 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,880 Speaker 1: stuffed their bodies into plastic bins then hit them behind 731 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,359 Speaker 1: a neighbor's shed. A judge's taking the jury's decision of 732 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,239 Speaker 1: death into consideration before making a final ruling. You were 733 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,160 Speaker 1: hearing our friends at Action News ABC to Dave mag 734 00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: this has to go in front of a judge and 735 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,800 Speaker 1: he or she has to adopt the death penalty decision 736 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,879 Speaker 1: by the jury. Will it happen, Nancy? It's up to him. 737 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,839 Speaker 1: The choice now is the judge can either sentence her 738 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 1: to death and she'll head to the death row, or 739 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,280 Speaker 1: he can sentence her to life without bail or without parole. 740 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,839 Speaker 1: You know I'm looking at her picture now, Cheyenne Jesse. 741 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,239 Speaker 1: You know what Jackie? Look at her? I tell you what, 742 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,799 Speaker 1: if I met her on the street, I would go 743 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: to the other Jackie just said, I would run. The 744 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,279 Speaker 1: way she is looking at the camera, it looks as 745 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:37,719 Speaker 1: at any moment she's going to unleash talents and rip 746 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,840 Speaker 1: the throat of her out of whoever's taken this picture. 747 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:45,240 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, I know it sounds crazy, but both Jackie 748 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 1: and have the same do you agree, jack I mean, 749 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,200 Speaker 1: just looking at her, she looks so evil and mean 750 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,040 Speaker 1: the look in her eyes. Can that be possible? Or 751 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 1: am I or am I projecting because of what I 752 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,480 Speaker 1: know about her? You know, Nancy, I saw that same photo. 753 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: In fact, I'm looking at it right now. It's scary. 754 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 1: She looks angry, she looks hateful, malevolent. You know, you 755 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,680 Speaker 1: keep asking the question why would she kill both her 756 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,480 Speaker 1: daughter and her father? And I started thinking about Kasey Anthony. 757 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: Do you remember that Kasey Anthony was bragging to one 758 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,920 Speaker 1: of her girlfriends that she was going to get her 759 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,719 Speaker 1: parents house that I think either that one of the 760 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,399 Speaker 1: parents was sick or they were going to move away, 761 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,439 Speaker 1: and that all the parents money and house was going 762 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,400 Speaker 1: to be hers. So now, obviously Kasey didn't kill her parents, 763 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,799 Speaker 1: but there was also a fantasy of getting them out 764 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 1: of the way so she could get the spoils of 765 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,319 Speaker 1: their life, so she could have their assets or resources. 766 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,160 Speaker 1: And it does make me wonder. I don't know if 767 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:53,160 Speaker 1: ifs weekly the father had resources, but maybe this her 768 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 1: mom not only wanted her daughter out of the way 769 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,319 Speaker 1: so she could have an idealized life, but maybe she 770 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,840 Speaker 1: felt her dad was holding her back and if he 771 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,120 Speaker 1: was gone that she could just be free to use 772 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,200 Speaker 1: the house, you know, eat the food, you know, lie 773 00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 1: on the sofa, eat chips, as you used to say 774 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,319 Speaker 1: about Casey Anthony, and do whatever she wanted, not have 775 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 1: to work date Mary. You know, she and her boyfriend 776 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: were living in a trailer on his family's compound, so 777 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,840 Speaker 1: the idea of how having the dad's house might have 778 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:28,440 Speaker 1: been a motivator too. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy 779 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: Grace crime story signing off Goodbye Friend,