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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Think about packages just

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Speaker 1: for a second. Is there anything more exciting than the

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Speaker 1: potential of what's contained inside of a package? And when

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Speaker 1: I say package, I'm not talking about some kind of

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Speaker 1: fancy envelope that arrives from whatever carrier where you kind

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Speaker 1: of rip that seal off of it. I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: a package where you've got something that's arriving from either

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Speaker 1: a department store, or you've got it coming to you

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Speaker 1: as a birthday gift, or maybe even Christmas. You look

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Speaker 1: at a Christmas tree and you think about all of

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Speaker 1: the brilliantly wrapped packages, and the one word that comes

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Speaker 1: to mind is potential. Why is that We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about potential. We're going to talk about potential energy,

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Speaker 1: because when you unwrap a package there could be anything

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Speaker 1: in there. For today's discussion, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: a package that was so devastating when opened that the

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Speaker 1: poor soul that opened it was almost vaporized. I'm Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks Dave Mack. When I

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Speaker 1: was a little boy, the thing I always wanted and

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Speaker 1: was never given. I'm a grown man. I still think

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Speaker 1: about this. I ought to go out and buy it

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Speaker 1: right now. I always wanted an ST's rocket set, and

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Speaker 1: for some reason, those that had parental control over me

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Speaker 1: never trusted me. I guess they thought I was going

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Speaker 1: to put my eye out or blow something up. But

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Speaker 1: I always wanted an ST's rocket set. I always had visions,

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Speaker 1: you know. I came up just like you when and

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Speaker 1: the moonshot was going on, and it was fascinating to

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Speaker 1: me because with that, I saw what could happen when

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Speaker 1: this thing was initiated and would go up in the air.

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Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated by going to fireworks shows. I

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Speaker 1: just took my family down to our favorite place in

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Speaker 1: the world, an island off of the shore of Alabama,

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Speaker 1: Barrier Island called Dauphin Island, and we sat down there

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Speaker 1: and watched the Fourth of July fireworks over the Gulf

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Speaker 1: of Mexico, which is an astounding thing to see reflected

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Speaker 1: there in the water, that explosive event where you see

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Speaker 1: the chemistry literally brought to life because of all of

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Speaker 1: the different chemicals that are contained in these explosions. So

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Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated by this. But you know, this

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Speaker 1: case that we're talking about today. It involves somebody that was,

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Speaker 1: in a more sinister sense fascinated by explosions as well.

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Speaker 2: Stephen Beale is a man who is an actor, claims

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Speaker 2: to be and many other things in his career, but

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Speaker 2: the biggest one is a model rocket hobbyist. He actually

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Speaker 2: claims to have had one of his model rockets achieve

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Speaker 2: Mack two. But safe to assume that Stephen Beal has

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Speaker 2: been a man consumed with model rockets and realizing that

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Speaker 2: to send a rocket up you've got to have an explosion,

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Speaker 2: a controlled explosion, and that would kind of lead you

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Speaker 2: down the path of explosives bombs, which is where this

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Speaker 2: story comes into play. Stephen Beal was involved in a relationship.

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Speaker 2: So Ildigo and Stephen had been dating for a while,

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Speaker 2: and Ildego is this beautiful, vibrant Hungarian and they met online.

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Speaker 2: He had been married previously showed Sochi, and Stephen Bial's

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Speaker 2: first wife had passed away in an odd way. It

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Speaker 2: was some mystery surrounding that there was.

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Speaker 1: Can I interject something real quick because talking about chemicals here.

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Speaker 1: One of the things about Stephen Beale's first wife's death

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Speaker 1: there was alleged to have been the substance of lead,

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Speaker 1: the element lead involved in her death. But the medical

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Speaker 1: examiner slash Corner never could come to a conclusion. They

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Speaker 1: just said, I've seen it quoted as mysterious circumstances. Right.

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Speaker 2: The thing is part of the reason they had trouble

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Speaker 2: with it is Steven Beal would not cooperate with the investigation.

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Speaker 2: He would not cooperate with her doctors, he would not

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Speaker 2: cooperate with the coroner. He would not cooperate with investigations.

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Speaker 2: When somebody dies unexpectedly, there is an investigation. When it

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Speaker 2: came right down to it, they never were able to

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Speaker 2: come up with a suitable finish. So it was left

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Speaker 2: open pretty much. And we'll come back to that in

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Speaker 2: a minute, because it will come back into play, believe

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Speaker 2: it or not. So we have Stephen bial and his

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Speaker 2: girlfriend Ildego, and they both have a passion. They live

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Speaker 2: in southern California, by the way, we're talking about Orange County,

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Speaker 2: Long Beach in that general vicinity, and together they open

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Speaker 2: a spa day spa. At this spa, there are a

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Speaker 2: number of people who actually are there because of Ildego

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Speaker 2: and her relationship with Hungary, her family coming from Hungary

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Speaker 2: and her friends. You come from another place, you tend

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Speaker 2: to gravitate towards those you have a similar background in language.

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Speaker 1: I've been out to La many times to do television

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Speaker 1: shows and everything, and you know who I find many

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Speaker 1: times that are limo drivers that I come in contact with,

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Speaker 1: are people that are part of the Albanian culture. And

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Speaker 1: I've gotten to know several of those people find people,

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Speaker 1: and I would have imagined that there is probably what

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Speaker 1: do they refer to it as a diaspora of Hungarians

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Speaker 1: that are located there as well. And you're right, they

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Speaker 1: get together in like this little clutch. And because Lord

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Speaker 1: have mercy, just looking at the spelling of her name,

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Speaker 1: it it'd be difficult to pronounce. I can only imagine

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Speaker 1: how hard it is to assimilate. You want people that

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Speaker 1: can actually enter. Would you speak your own language and

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Speaker 1: remind you of home?

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Speaker 2: And you've pointed out speak your own language and remembering home,

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Speaker 2: and that all plays into this as well, because Ildigo

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Speaker 2: was very attached to her family, and in May she

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Speaker 2: actually had gone and spent time in Hungary, her native nation.

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Speaker 2: Want to back up to Stephen Beale and miss Ildego,

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Speaker 2: they had been in a relationship but the relationship fell

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Speaker 2: apart after they opened the spa. It was kind of

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Speaker 2: a compact period of time here between the relationship beginning

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Speaker 2: and the spa opening. Happened fairly quick and they were

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Speaker 2: both all in, but the relationship broke down. Stephen Beale

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Speaker 2: and Ildigo were no longer a couple, but they were

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Speaker 2: still partners in the spa. But Stephen was more of

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Speaker 2: a silent partner. He wasn't really there much, but he

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Speaker 2: had a key. He still had a key, that's what

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Speaker 2: allowed him access to the spa while missus Ildigo had

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Speaker 2: gone back to Hungary to visit her mother and other family.

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Speaker 1: What a kind of an interesting dynamic that two people

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Speaker 1: would be involved in this kind of romantic relationship and

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Speaker 1: then this kind of dissipates. They break up for whatever

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Speaker 1: reason at this point in time, but you still have

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Speaker 1: a business relationship. And I know that there are other

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Speaker 1: relationships out there like this, But how awkward would that be?

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Speaker 1: Because whatever friction existed romantically, you have to think that

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Speaker 1: it's going to probably bleed over into the business relationship.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know anything about running a day spa,

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Speaker 1: but I would imagine much like a restaurant it's something

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Speaker 1: that you have to have attention on, like twenty four

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Speaker 1: to seven. You're always thinking of it, just to keep

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Speaker 1: the thing afloat.

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Speaker 2: Ildigo was actually a licensed cosmetologist and Stephen Bill was not.

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Speaker 2: Stephen Bill was a part time actor and businessman and

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Speaker 2: rocket hobbyist, but he had no background in cosmetology. He

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Speaker 2: had no background in running a spa. Ildigo did. So basically,

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Speaker 2: she was the license cosmetologists heading up the spa and

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Speaker 2: he was just a partner in the business because at

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Speaker 2: the time they started it, they were a couple romantically linked,

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Speaker 2: and when that broke down, Ildigo had moved on and

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Speaker 2: she was dating somebody, certainly at least one romantic rival

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Speaker 2: for Steven Bial, and Steven Bial was not really moving on.

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Speaker 2: He said he was, but not really. He was pretty

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Speaker 2: obsessed with her. So when Ildigo comes back from her

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Speaker 2: trip to Hungary, she's in the spa and there's plenty

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Speaker 2: of mail. There were a couple of boxes, a bunch

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Speaker 2: of letters, and there were two of her Hungarian friends

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Speaker 2: who were also there at the spa that morning, and

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Speaker 2: it was in that moment when she was checking the

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Speaker 2: mail that Ildigo picked up one of the boxes and

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Speaker 2: opened it. The forty eight year old was blown up

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Speaker 2: by opening this box. It was such a big explosion

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Speaker 2: that when investigators looked at it when they first got

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Speaker 2: the call about an explosion, they thought a gas line

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Speaker 2: or something along those lines. When they got there and

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Speaker 2: found out it was a box that had something in it,

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Speaker 2: they were like, this is not an accident. The two

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Speaker 2: other women were injured, but Ildigo was killed pretty much

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Speaker 2: you mentioned vaporized. It happened real fast, and at forty

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Speaker 2: years old, she was dead.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And when you begin to think about bombings, you

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Speaker 1: think about a kill radius. And we've seen this over

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Speaker 1: the years. We've been at war for a long time

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Speaker 1: as a country and unfortunately, and I personally have have

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Speaker 1: had former students of mine that have died as a

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Speaker 1: result of improvised explosive devices overseas. And you know, they

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Speaker 1: talk about a blast radius. Sometimes you'll hear the term

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Speaker 1: kill radius and how much of that energy travels outward

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Speaker 1: and can really wreak havoc. But when you begin to

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Speaker 1: talk about an explosive device that goes off inside of

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Speaker 1: an enclosed space, that's a completely different dynamic. But Dave,

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Speaker 1: I know this, when that explosion initiated. I can tell

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Speaker 1: you who wasn't there, Stephen William Beal. I always have

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Speaker 1: trouble pronouncing some of these names in southern California. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what it is. Dave. I know you're from

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Speaker 1: southern California originally and from the OC. I believe I've

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Speaker 1: always wanted to say that in a conversation.

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Speaker 2: Joe, I actually lived about a mile and a half

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Speaker 2: from where this house was in Long Beach, where Stephen

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Speaker 2: Bial's house.

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Speaker 1: Was, well, where his house was, but I think the

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Speaker 1: SPA was in a place called Alicio vheo. Is that

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Speaker 1: how you pronounced it vio in southern California in the OC.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, mister Stephen Beial, actually he was a Long

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Speaker 1: Beach resident. And to bacca up a little bit, we

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Speaker 1: have to understand that this case has been ongoing for

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Speaker 1: some time now. We're talking about roughly five years down

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Speaker 1: range when this thing is finally adjudicated. This occurred in

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Speaker 1: the morning on May fifteenth, twenty eighteen, and I can

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Speaker 1: just imagine you're hanging around the firehouse, you're a local firefighter,

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, the bell starts cleaning

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Speaker 1: and you're getting reports that are rolling in to the

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Speaker 1: fire station where they're saying there has been an explosion.

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Speaker 1: There's actually been an explosion, and the fire department. I know,

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Speaker 1: the police will show up, but the firefighters in this case,

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Speaker 1: these are the people that are right on point, because

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Speaker 1: when you think about explosion, one of the first things

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Speaker 1: you think about, other than the devastation that takes place

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Speaker 1: as a result of the initiation of this event, is

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Speaker 1: going to be associated fire and then having to triage

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Speaker 1: any injuries that might be there. And of course the

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Speaker 1: fire department is uniquely equipped to do this. All these guys,

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Speaker 1: most of them are at some level in paramedical training,

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Speaker 1: whether it's an EMT or a full on paramedic. So

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Speaker 1: when they arrive at this location, there is what's referred

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Speaker 1: to and you'll hear this in bomb investigations. They see

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Speaker 1: from Jump Street that this is what they have what

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Speaker 1: they call a debris field. So you've got these fragmented

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Speaker 1: bits and pieces that are everywhere. Interestingly, when you roll

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Speaker 1: up on a building and you see a structure that's

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Speaker 1: kind of blown out like this, the first thing you're

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Speaker 1: going to think of is not a package bomb, a

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Speaker 1: mail bomb. You're going to think gas Maine explosion. And

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Speaker 1: you know, Dave, I don't think I've ever mentioned this

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. I actually worked a case, and this

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Speaker 1: is early on in my career. Again, I was still

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Speaker 1: in the New Orleans area when this happened. We had

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Speaker 1: a family that had gone off on vacation and they

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Speaker 1: had a brick ranch home. One of the eyes on

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Speaker 1: their gas of and had been left on and the

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Speaker 1: house was filled with gas and there was mail stacking

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Speaker 1: up on the front porch of the house. Their male

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Speaker 1: person had come by and kind of checking status to

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Speaker 1: see who was there. And when the doorbell was wrong,

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Speaker 1: that was enough. That was an initiator because of the

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Speaker 1: current that it set off a blast that literally leveled

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Speaker 1: this brick home. That's how powerful a gas explosion is,

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Speaker 1: and it took it down to it literally took it

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Speaker 1: down to the slab. There were homes damaged. Of course,

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Speaker 1: the person that rang the doorbell was deceased, and you

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Speaker 1: have all of these types of events that occur like this.

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Speaker 1: The first thing you're going to think of when you're

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Speaker 1: a firefighter and you're rolling out, you're hearing explosion is

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Speaker 1: not going to be package bomb. It's just that's not

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Speaker 1: on your radar. I mean, you've heard about them, but

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Speaker 1: most of the time you're thinking that this is some

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Speaker 1: kind of gas main leak that happens.

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Speaker 2: We tend to see things on television and movies and

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Speaker 2: have a certain visual that applies to seeing an explosive.

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Speaker 2: In reality, it doesn't happen that way. You're not watching

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Speaker 2: for it, your eyes are not trained on it. It's

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Speaker 2: something that happens, like in this particular case. I was

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Speaker 2: reading one of the victims who survived, and she said

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Speaker 2: that her back was turned. She didn't see when when

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Speaker 2: Mozildago list lifted the box or opened it. She didn't

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Speaker 2: see that. But she described what she did see, and

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Speaker 2: it was a bright light and it was being pushed

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Speaker 2: into a wall, and it was a dramatic recounting of

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Speaker 2: something she didn't see. What she knew when arriving on

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Speaker 2: a scene and you we've got fire and police body

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Speaker 2: parts were found in the parking lot. What does that

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Speaker 2: tell you from the outside looking and showing up at

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Speaker 2: the scene. Where do you start in examining the deceased?

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Speaker 2: Do you start with the foot in the parking lot?

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Speaker 1: Well, you you secure it, and that's the most important thing,

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Speaker 1: any kind of well, anything there. It's not just simply

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Speaker 1: the anatomical elements that are torn apart, that are torn

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Speaker 1: to shreds in this environment. From an investigative standpoint, every

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Speaker 1: bit of fragment that's out there has the potential to

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Speaker 1: lead back to an explanation. We're not talking suspect at

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Speaker 1: this point. We're talking explanation because that's what you want

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Speaker 1: to know. What happened, What brought this about is hey,

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Speaker 1: look we've got one explosion. Is there a chance that

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Speaker 1: there will be another explosion? So we have to be

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Speaker 1: very careful out there and what will occur. I know

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Speaker 1: that many people have seen over the years when you

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Speaker 1: watch crime shows and all these sorts of things, you

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Speaker 1: see these little evidence markers that we put out lots

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Speaker 1: of times. There are these little yellow tents. They're made

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Speaker 1: out of heart plastically have numbers on them. What happens

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Speaker 1: with a debris fiell this big many times is that

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Speaker 1: instead of little yellow markers, many times you'll have various

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Speaker 1: colored little flags that are placed out there, and each

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Speaker 1: color will denote a different type of item. Let's just

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Speaker 1: say you have a biological sample that's there, maybe you'll

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Speaker 1: put a green flag by that. And when I say

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Speaker 1: biological sample, it could be like, for instance, a part

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Speaker 1: of a limb that's you can look at and say, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's a hand. Or you could look down and just

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Speaker 1: see kind of a little mound of what appears to

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Speaker 1: be red tissue, and that might be say, thigh muscle,

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Speaker 1: but you have no idea what particularly it is, but

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Speaker 1: it has some kind of resemblance to something that may

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Speaker 1: have originated from a body, and you get this kind

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Speaker 1: of commingling of all of this debris. So if you've

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Speaker 1: got mortar where it's been holding together bricks, and this

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Speaker 1: building does have a brick facing on it, and glass

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Speaker 1: and metal, so you'll get this kind of commingling of

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Speaker 1: all of these different items. You might have a bit

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Speaker 1: of muscle that's immediately adjacent to a bit of brick,

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Speaker 1: so you could have little flags all in one particular area,

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Speaker 1: dependent upon what you're looking for. And there were two

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Speaker 1: patrons inside of this place, who, by the way, have

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Speaker 1: never been named. There's no need to name them by

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Speaker 1: the courts, but I can't tell you this. These two

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Speaker 1: unfortunate ladies that were in there. From what I understand,

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Speaker 1: and what has been put forward. They have been scarred

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Speaker 1: for life, and that's not unexpected. You know, my office

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Speaker 1: worked the infamous Olympic Park bombing back in nineteen ninety six,

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Speaker 1: and for my money, I don't want to go chasing

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Speaker 1: rabbits here in this conversation, but I will say that

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest heroes of all time was Richard Jewell.

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Speaker 2: The guy that they blamed for it at first.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the guy that they blamed for it. And because

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Speaker 1: he reoriented that device at that particular time when he

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Speaker 1: recognized it, a lot of lives were spared. But we

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Speaker 1: did have one victim of the blast that died as

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Speaker 1: a direct result of the initiation of that device. But

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Speaker 1: you know, day we don't hear about all of the

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Speaker 1: victims that were there at Centennial Park that night that

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Speaker 1: were maimed for life, that will carry scars for the

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Speaker 1: rest of their life. So well, there are there were

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Speaker 1: other people that were grievously injured that were out there.

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Speaker 1: And when you have that kind of event that goes

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Speaker 1: on in that environment, if you have these eye or

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Speaker 1: ear witnesses. You mentioned this one lady that didn't see it,

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Speaker 1: but she apparently felt it and her back was to it.

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Speaker 1: I think she may have been in another room and

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Speaker 1: she actually talks about this force that knocks her down.

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Speaker 1: That's a real important part of the mechanics of an

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Speaker 1: explosion because there's multiple elements.

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Speaker 2: You.

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Speaker 1: First off, when you think about explosions, you have potential

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Speaker 1: energy and what does that mean. Well, say, in this

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Speaker 1: particular case, you have a box that is sitting there.

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Speaker 1: It's not doing anything, it's not necessarily inert, but it

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Speaker 1: has to have a triggering mechanism. So we have potential

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Speaker 1: energy that is sitting there, and when that thing is

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Speaker 1: released is released and that trigger mechanism takes place, then

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Speaker 1: the explosion initiates and you have a sequence that goes

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Speaker 1: through it. Where in this particular case, a non volt

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Speaker 1: battery was actually used as the little electrical charge and

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Speaker 1: that's really all that it took. And Dave, you know,

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Speaker 1: in this case, in this debris field, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: imagine for me it is because, yeah, people think I'm

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Speaker 1: a detailed person because I'm an investigator by trade, but

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Speaker 1: when it gets down to these little fine points, it's

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Speaker 1: frustrating to me. They actually found the body half of

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Speaker 1: the body of a non volt battery that was still

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Speaker 1: contained at the scene. And you know what else, This

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Speaker 1: thing was so powerful that the wiring that was used

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Speaker 1: in this blast, in this device, if you will, was

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Speaker 1: blown up into the ceiling and they actually recovered that wire.

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Speaker 1: And so when you're looking at this from an investigative standpoint,

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Speaker 1: it looks like a gigantic jigsaw puzzle, and you don't

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Speaker 1: know what is actually it contains value and what doesn't.

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Speaker 1: What's going to point to a reason as to what

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Speaker 1: happened at the scene, But everything has a certain level

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Speaker 1: of importance to it. Where to begin is a question

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Speaker 1: I think that many people have asked over the years.

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Speaker 1: When you have an explosion event that occurs, the starting

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Speaker 1: point is obviously is to triage everybody is there. That

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Speaker 1: is that anybody that survived this event. You think that

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Speaker 1: is I'm going to have the potential to make it

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Speaker 1: out alive. You get them out of there soon as

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Speaker 1: you possibly can. But after that, Dave, everything has potential

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Speaker 1: to be evidence, and everything is treated that way and

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Speaker 1: the scene is immediately locked down.

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Speaker 2: This happened police were thinking on their way to the scene.

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Speaker 2: Before they get there, they know they've had an explosion,

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Speaker 2: and so they're thinking gas line or and again it

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Speaker 2: does come up in discussion, what's the possibility we're dealing

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Speaker 2: with somebody committing an act of terror? But is it

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Speaker 2: a car bomb? They didn't know, But when police arrived,

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Speaker 2: when investigators arrived on the scene, they knew based on

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Speaker 2: the severity of Ildego's injuries and the size of the blast.

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Speaker 2: They knew right away or believed based on experience, that

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Speaker 2: it was a homicide, that this was an intentional act.

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Speaker 2: Now they just had to determine why she the intended

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Speaker 2: target or was it somebody else where it took place,

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Speaker 2: and who was holding it. And immediately they look at

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Speaker 2: and once you've determined the homicide, who are the closest

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Speaker 2: to you're looking at husband's boyfriends, things like that. And

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Speaker 2: you mentioned the wire and the nine bolt battery, and

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Speaker 2: that really was a huge part of their investigation because

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Speaker 2: the wire was embedded in the ceiling. So as part

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Speaker 2: of their investigation of putting all this back together, they

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Speaker 2: start at the bomb. But now they're doing background work

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Speaker 2: on her relationships and who else benefited from this type

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Speaker 2: of an act of aggression. You're the forensic guy. You

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Speaker 2: know there's a bomb. We can all tell it was

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Speaker 2: a bomb, But don't you have to be able to

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Speaker 2: examine the body of the victim here and determine what

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Speaker 2: actually caused their demise. It's not enough to say that

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Speaker 2: she was blown up. It has to be more than that,

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Speaker 2: because you have to figure out what was the bomb

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Speaker 2: made of so you can figure out who built it?

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you do. The body is going to reveal

381
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Speaker 1: blast trauma. Remember, she's the one that has opened this

382
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Speaker 1: package day, that has initiated the sequence. Her body, her

383
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Speaker 1: clothing that that remains will have what's referred to as

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Speaker 1: bomb residue on every bit of her.

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Speaker 2: Is that similar to like the stippling we get when

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Speaker 2: somebody puts a gun up against somebody's body, against their skin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it can be. It can also be. It has

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00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: a real close familial chemical familial context to gunpowder residue

389
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 1: testing GSR. It's the same principle. You go into an

390
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: environment and you're checking to see if they have powder

391
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 1: residue on them. In this case, we're talking about a

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Speaker 1: variety of different chemicals that were actually involved in this case,

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Speaker 1: where you have things that are well, let me kind

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Speaker 1: of give you the view of it. What we do

395
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Speaker 1: know is that there was a substance that bial has

396
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Speaker 1: access to that. Have you ever seen a magician that

397
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: would take what's referred to as flash powder and kind

398
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 1: of throw it down and smoke kind of goes up. Well,

399
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: there's a chemical that he had access to. That's the

400
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: name of it is potassium perchlorate. And so it is

401
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: a flash powder. And what this means is that you

402
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: actually see in percussion caps with gunfire. Okay, so the

403
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: little cap that's in the base of a bullet, in

404
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: the base of an ammunition similar composition, and it's an

405
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: unstable compound. It burns very quickly, and that's what you

406
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: want when you're initiating a firing sequence.

407
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 2: When you say unstable versus stables, that mean it can

408
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 2: just go off if you bump it.

409
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Speaker 1: No, it's not like liquid nitroglycerin or something. I'm just

410
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: talking about. When it's initiated. It has to be initiated

411
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Speaker 1: with like fire being applied to it or electricity. In

412
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: this case, it was an electric current. It's going to

413
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Speaker 1: go off really quickly because it burns so quickly, and

414
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 1: it's kind of chemically unstable when compared to to say,

415
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Speaker 1: for instance, black powder, which was found at mister Bill's residence.

416
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: It's a bit more stable, but highly more explosive. This

417
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 1: is the trick trying to understand how to mix all

418
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Speaker 1: of these chemicals and understand. Bill was an amateur rocket guy.

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Speaker 1: Like we mentioned Dave. Reportedly, he has launched rockets that

420
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Speaker 1: were so large that it required a team to assist him. Now,

421
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Speaker 1: he would go out in the desert in California, which

422
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Speaker 1: there's a lot of desert out there, and some of

423
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: these rockets, these homemade rockets that he built, were as

424
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: tall as a house. Just kind of wrap your mind

425
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Speaker 1: around that that a private citizen would build one of

426
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: these things. And I think it's grand that people can

427
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: do that if they know what they're doing and all

428
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: of that. But you mentioned the speed at which that occurred,

429
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: the velocity of these things. I think you had mentioned

430
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: mock too. I had heard certainly upward above mock one

431
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: relative to the rate at which these things were ascending.

432
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Speaker 1: But he also had a background. He was a pyrotechnic

433
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: enthusiast as well, which means that he dealt with fireworks.

434
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: And I would imagine if he was in the movie

435
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: industry thinks he's an actor that sort of thing. Maybe

436
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 1: he was an actor. I have no idea, but maybe

437
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: he had some experience in that realm as well. But

438
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: you have to understand the composition when you begin to

439
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: think about this flash powder when combined with not just

440
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: black powder, but there's also a substance out there referred

441
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: to as red gum, which is unique in that it's

442
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: used as a binder in fireworks. And this is the

443
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: thing about it, and it is so fascinating from scientific standpoint.

444
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: Red gum and black powder are both organic substances, which

445
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: means that they're made from some base materials that are

446
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 1: out there that are like red gum essentially hence gum.

447
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: It's actually extracted from a plant and has been known

448
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: for years and years. So that's an organic substance. So

449
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: when you're trying to do your chemical testing and you

450
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: do these chemical swabs that they do, you know, where

451
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: they'll apply it to a surface. If you get a

452
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: hit on this, then you say, oh, okay, well this

453
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: chemical is here. You do another hit and maybe you'll

454
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: find some kind of inorganic substance that's kind of chemically constructed,

455
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: made in a laboratory like this. It's not really it's

456
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: more refined, and you combine those two things, you say, well,

457
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: I have these two elements out here that I know

458
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,719
Speaker 1: that when combined, create a hell of an explosion. And

459
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: that's what happened in this particular case when he loaded

460
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: up that box with this explosive mixture that he had

461
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: and he initiated this thing with the battery. All hellbro clues.

462
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: Here's another thing that's from an investigative standpoint. You can

463
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: have wire, you can have a nine volt battery, you

464
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 1: can have all of these various chemical elements that are

465
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: out there. But if you don't know how to construct

466
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: this thing, that's a problem because it's just all of

467
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: those elements in and of themselfs are not necessarily going

468
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 1: to be lethal. But it's putting all of these pieces

469
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: together and then going into an environment which you have

470
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: access to, placing it amongst all the other male that's

471
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: there on ac counter. And you know she's coming. What'd

472
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: you say that she's just taken a trip to Hungary,

473
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: had she?

474
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, she had been in Hungry visiting family, And this

475
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 2: was my understanding her first day back. And that's why

476
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 2: the two women were there for their spaw treatment. And

477
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: it was early enough in the day that she still

478
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: had her mail, and because her business partner and former

479
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: love interest Steve and Bill had a key to the facility,

480
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: during the investigation, they were able to figure out a lot.

481
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: But you know, I wanted to point out something, Joe,

482
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: And this is a common practice in investigators. When somebody's

483
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 2: dead and you know it was an intentional act, as

484
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: they believe from the beginning on this, they immediately start

485
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 2: looking at close associates, love interest and in this case,

486
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: you have the ex boyfriend who talking to a few friends,

487
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 2: they find out he was very obsessed with her and

488
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: she has begun dating other people. He suspect here, Stephen

489
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: bial is immediately somebody they're going to look into. So

490
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: we're talking a day after this bomb went off. The

491
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: day after the police show up at his house with

492
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: a warrant. They want to look around.

493
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: How many people do you know in your little circle

494
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: have experienced, I mean real experience with explosives where they're

495
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: building rockets and they're doing pyrotechnics, and do you know

496
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: that many people around you? And so as an investigator,

497
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: this is an excellent point. You know, here this lady

498
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: who originates from Hungary, she's been in a romantic relationship

499
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: with a guy that builds rockets and has access to explosives,

500
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: and if they anybody ask him about it, he can

501
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: simply say, oh, yeah, I'll build rockets or I like

502
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: to do fireworks, and people say, oh, okay, well that

503
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: explains a lot.

504
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 2: It explains everything, but it also points wait a minute,

505
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: your ex girlfriend and business partner got blown up, Well

506
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 2: who are the possible people? And immediately he's right there.

507
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 2: So they go on search his house. And this is

508
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: one of those police things that I'm sure that within

509
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: your your realm of your sphere of influence and talking

510
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: with investigators that I bet y'all have some funny discussions

511
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: about we're gonna we're gonna get this guy. We're gonna

512
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: just drip him up a little bit. Because when they

513
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 2: went to his house, they already knew so much. But

514
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: when they went to his home in Long Beach, a

515
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: search warrant was served and Joe. They found it mostly

516
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 2: in his garage, but some inside the house, about one

517
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty pounds worth of explosives. They found a

518
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 2: seven foot tall rockety rocket making equipment, two containers of

519
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: potassium percalor I don't know how to say it is

520
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: that on the periodic table. I don't know. My table's

521
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: got pizza on it. So you've got the tube container

522
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 2: you mentioned the red gum. He's got two containers of

523
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: that and at least three containers of black powder. Now,

524
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 2: according to the affidavit, Bill told detectives he saw media

525
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: coverage of the explosion and claimed he did not have

526
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: material to create an explosion that large.

527
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would raise suspicions for me. And that's what's

528
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: so fascinating by about this case is that it took

529
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: so long to make it through the system. We're talking

530
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: about twenty eighteen, and what Bill was engaged in rises

531
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: to a federal crime. You've got the FBI getting involved,

532
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: the ATF, who arguably the premiere organization that investigates fires

533
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: and explosions. That's kind of their Baileywick, if you will,

534
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: and not to me, you know, all of the other

535
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: associated groups where you've got people, certainly in southern California

536
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: that are very well equipped to handle events like this,

537
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 1: And you think about who has this kind of knowledge,

538
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: who has access to these materials, who has the ability

539
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: to gain access to a location where he knows that

540
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: the intended target would be able to put her hands

541
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: on this thing that's going to create this event. And

542
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: of course he's nowhere around the area when this thing initiates.

543
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: He's the owner of the business. She hasn't been around

544
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: for a few days. They got mail is stacked up.

545
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: There's CCTV footage of him at any number of times

546
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: going back and forth into these locations, which I think

547
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: played a key role because you're putting him in that

548
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: location as he is entering this building and this sort

549
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: of thing, and then he knows because you know, this

550
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 1: guy blows things up in big open areas. You've been

551
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: to a firework show. These things are done in a distance,

552
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: they're out in an open area. But Dave, here's what

553
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: actually brought about her death. The fact that this potential

554
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: energy that was contained within this bomb was contained within

555
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: a structure. So you've got a bomb contained in a

556
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: box and the box is contained in a structure. This

557
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: is what's referred to as a pressure event. You've got

558
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: this intense pressure. If you've ever seen anybody shake up

559
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: a bottle of just champagne and then pop the cork on.

560
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: The pop goes, the cork goes flying off in the distance.

561
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,719
Speaker 1: That's very minimal when you think about the pressure that

562
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: is initiated. That pressure from that device going off is

563
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: trying to seek that location where it can free itself

564
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: into the open air and it will eventually dissipate, but

565
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: it has to travel this course that goes through furniture,

566
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: through a desk, through a wall, and ultimately through the

567
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: body of an innocent victim. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and

568
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: this is bodybags