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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. We have

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Speaker 1: an interview today. We were connected to the folks that

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Speaker 1: McMillan podcasts about their new show, which is called Driving

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Speaker 1: the Green Book. It is hosted by Alvin Hall, who

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Speaker 1: took a road trip from Detroit to New Orleans along

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Speaker 1: with associate producer Janney woods Webber. They documented this trip

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Speaker 1: and the places they went and the people they talked

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Speaker 1: to and the stories they told in a ten part

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Speaker 1: series that's all about the Negro Motorists Green Book. The

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Speaker 1: first five episodes are out now and new episodes come

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Speaker 1: out on Tuesdays. Tracy talked to Alvin and Janet about

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Speaker 1: their thoughts and experiences with the Negro Motorists screen book

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Speaker 1: and their road trip and the podcast itself, and we're

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Speaker 1: sharing that interview with you today. I'm here today with

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Speaker 1: Alvin Hall and Janet woods Webber, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about their new podcast, Driving the Green Book. Alvin

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Speaker 1: is the host and Janet you are the associate producer. Correct. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So The Negro Motorist Green Book, which later became known

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Speaker 1: as the Negro Travelers Green Book, was really the most

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Speaker 1: well known guide for black travelers before the Civil Rights

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Speaker 1: Act of nineteen sixty four outlawed racial discrimination and public accommodations.

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Speaker 1: So Victor Hugo Green, who was a letter carrier, started

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Speaker 1: this guide in nineteen thirty six, was inspired in part

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Speaker 1: by similar guides that were meant for Jewish travelers and

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Speaker 1: just travel guides in general. For this podcast, Alvin and

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Speaker 1: Janet went on a road trip last year from Detroit

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Speaker 1: to New Orleans and interviewed people who used the Green

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Speaker 1: Book in their own lives that they talked about their

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Speaker 1: own experiences then and now, Alvin and Janette, I, I'm

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Speaker 1: so happy that you're here with me today, and I'm

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Speaker 1: also so glad that you've created this podcast. I have

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Speaker 1: really wanted to talk about the Green Book on our

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Speaker 1: show for years, and I had a hard time figuring

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Speaker 1: out a great approach to it. And the approach that

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Speaker 1: you have chosen is really fantastic because you're not only

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Speaker 1: talking to real people about their real experiences, you've also

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Speaker 1: just taken a broader look at the Green Book more

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Speaker 1: as a time capsule. So beyond giving people a resource

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Speaker 1: for safe places to do things like deal with car

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Speaker 1: trouble or get a bite to eat. Also, you know,

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Speaker 1: having a document of what the world was like over

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Speaker 1: these decades. And I also wanted to talk to both

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Speaker 1: of you together today because you went on this trip together,

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Speaker 1: which I also love. So welcome to both of you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. First, starting with Alvin, could each

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Speaker 1: of you tell us just a little about your background

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Speaker 1: and what drew you to this project. In two thousand

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Speaker 1: and fifteen, I was approached by a guy at the

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Speaker 1: BBC who had read an article about the Green Book

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Speaker 1: and thought there should be a program about it. I

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Speaker 1: had also read an article about the Green Book and

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Speaker 1: had been thinking about it at the same time, and

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Speaker 1: as a result we created an earlier version of this

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Speaker 1: but completely different for the BBC called The Green Book.

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Speaker 1: I had been working on and off from the BBC

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Speaker 1: since about when I started there, creating personal finance programs.

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Speaker 1: So in the UK I had done investing for all

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Speaker 1: with Alvin Hall and my Landmark series Your Money or

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Speaker 1: Your Life, which was a reality show about money. When

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Speaker 1: that ended, I started to do more cultural programming around

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Speaker 1: things like who sold the soul, intellectual property, and African

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Speaker 1: American music. Jay Z from Brooklyn to the Boardroom, and

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Speaker 1: that eventually led to the Green Book. That's great. How

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Speaker 1: about you today? What what brought you to this project?

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Speaker 1: As a biracial Black woman who was raised in New

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Speaker 1: England by a white mother, I have always been on

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Speaker 1: a quest to discover my Black, my African American heritage.

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Speaker 1: And this is in part fueled not only by my

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Speaker 1: desire to know about my ancestors and to understand my

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Speaker 1: place in our country and in our history, but also

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Speaker 1: by the decade of work that I have done fighting

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Speaker 1: for the liberation of black people and other people of color.

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Speaker 1: I've been active in the Moral Monday movements, in the

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Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter movement. I'm an activist. I also work

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Speaker 1: for a family foundation where we focus on equity and education,

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Speaker 1: which means taking a very explicit look at the ways

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Speaker 1: racism and poverty impact the educational outcomes and opportunities for children,

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Speaker 1: in particular Black children and other children of color. So

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Speaker 1: the Green Books started out focused just in the New

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Speaker 1: York City area, particularly around Harlem, primarily for services that

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Speaker 1: a motorist would need on the road. So like auto mechanics,

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Speaker 1: a place to get a bite to eat. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell us about how it expanded from there? Yes, Victor

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Speaker 1: gradually realized that people were traveling further and further across America.

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Speaker 1: So first he expanded it all the way down to

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Speaker 1: Florida and up to the Mississippi River, because that was

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Speaker 1: easy for him to access. He gathered the information from

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Speaker 1: fellow postman who are were in the same union. At

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Speaker 1: the time he was a postman. There were black postman

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Speaker 1: union and a white postman union, and so the black

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Speaker 1: postman would know the places that had the best food,

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Speaker 1: that had clean accommodations, where you can get all of

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Speaker 1: the services you need when you travel. So Victor collected

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Speaker 1: all of that first going up to the Mississippi, and

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Speaker 1: then quickly after that he expanded it across the US.

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Speaker 1: He would advertise in the Green Book that if you

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Speaker 1: wanted to place listed there, give them a call, and

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Speaker 1: he also hired agents at some point who would also

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Speaker 1: go out and visit the places, confirmed them and recommend

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Speaker 1: that they advertised in the Green Book. So it gradually

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Speaker 1: became a picture of America and a changing America. At

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Speaker 1: that time, I knew that he was a letter carrier,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't realize that he had relied on the

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Speaker 1: other members of his union to to build out the

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Speaker 1: Green Book. There's so much fascinating information in the episodes

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Speaker 1: of your show that are out so far. Um as

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Speaker 1: of when we're recording, there are four out unless one

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Speaker 1: came out today. They come out every Tuesday, so there

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Speaker 1: are four out now, and they have talked about things

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Speaker 1: like entrepreneurship is just referenced, um, how the Green Book

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Speaker 1: connects to some really thriving black neighborhoods. One that you

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Speaker 1: talked about and visited was the note as Little Harlem

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Speaker 1: in Jackson, Mississippi. As you were making all of these connections,

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Speaker 1: was there anything that you discovered that really surprised you? Absolutely, I,

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Speaker 1: for one, was incredibly surprised in a gratifying sort of way,

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Speaker 1: to learn about the entrepreneurship of black women. I have

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Speaker 1: commented on this numerous times to Alvin while we were

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Speaker 1: in the process of going on this road trip, while

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Speaker 1: we were perusing copies of the Green Book, and since

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Speaker 1: then as we've been sharing these stories about our time

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Speaker 1: on the road. Because for me, growing up, what I

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Speaker 1: was taught the history that I was taught was that

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Speaker 1: black women our history in this country started as enslaved people,

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Speaker 1: or we were domestics. I did not know that black

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Speaker 1: women were the economic backbone of many black communities. They

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Speaker 1: ran boarding houses, they ran hotels, they ran restaurants, and oftentimes,

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Speaker 1: because of racism, white men, white businessmen and communities would

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Speaker 1: not want to do business with black men, so they

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Speaker 1: would instead speak with the black women, which I found

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Speaker 1: to be a very interesting situation, considering, you know what

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Speaker 1: we know now about feminism and business and how then

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Speaker 1: in general don't deal with women. But to understand that

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Speaker 1: there was a time when black women were really at

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Speaker 1: the forefront of economic activity, especially in the South, was

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Speaker 1: an eye opener for me, how about you, Alvin. For me,

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Speaker 1: it was the resilience that we saw again and again.

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Speaker 1: People would tell us the most horrific stories. Hezekiah story

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Speaker 1: in episode one about he and his brother sitting in

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Speaker 1: the car watching their father be demeaned by shares when

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Speaker 1: they go to the house to collect his aunt Beat's paycheck.

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Speaker 1: To think about the collateral damage of that situation, him,

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Speaker 1: his brother, the mother sitting in the car, but also

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Speaker 1: to think about how he when he tells that story.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't tell it as a negative totally, but he

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Speaker 1: tells it as something they survive, they learned from. He

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Speaker 1: then used that knowledge later on when he was stopped again,

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Speaker 1: and he passed that on to the next generation so

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Speaker 1: that they could survive. We heard the story of survival

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Speaker 1: and optimism in the face of really dangerous situations again

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Speaker 1: and again. And what fascinated mean, what I took away

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Speaker 1: from it is that we as African Americans have some

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Speaker 1: place in us this well of optimism, resilience, and the

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Speaker 1: belief that we can make our futures better. That's really lovely.

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Speaker 1: There was a moment, and I don't I don't remember

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Speaker 1: the specifics, but there was a moment in one of

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Speaker 1: the episodes that I was listening to, were one of

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Speaker 1: the people we were talking to was telling a story,

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Speaker 1: and it was like everyone in the room laughed so

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Speaker 1: joyfully about I felt almost like I was intruding on

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Speaker 1: someone else's private gathering. Um, and it really speaks to

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Speaker 1: what you were just talking about. In this next segment

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Speaker 1: of the interview, Tracy talks with Alvin and Janet about

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Speaker 1: how their own experience dances on the road mirrored the

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Speaker 1: experiences of some of the people they interviewed. But before

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Speaker 1: we get into that, we're gonna pause and have a

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Speaker 1: sponsor break. Victor Green talked about how he really hoped

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Speaker 1: that one day the Green Book would not be necessary anymore,

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately he did not live to see that day

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Speaker 1: because he died in nineteen sixty. His wife, Alma, had

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Speaker 1: been working on the Green Book with him. She took

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Speaker 1: over managing it. She later passed it on to others,

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Speaker 1: and it the last edition came out in nineteen sixty six,

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Speaker 1: So that was after the Civil Rights Act was in effect.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, it's clear today that travel still is

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Speaker 1: not nearly as safe for black travelers as it is

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Speaker 1: for white travelers. Was that something that influenced the trip

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Speaker 1: as you were planning to go on it for this show? Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: And some more over ways. For example, Alvin and I

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Speaker 1: made plans to drive explicitly only during daylight. We were

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Speaker 1: not interested in tempting any sort of negative fate by

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Speaker 1: driving on foreign Southern roads that we weren't familiar with

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Speaker 1: at night. And also something that we had never talked

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Speaker 1: about but that we did quite naturally was I drove

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Speaker 1: almost the whole way more than two thousand miles because

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Speaker 1: we both know a black man at the wheel of

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Speaker 1: a nice car can attract the attention of unwanted scrutiny,

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Speaker 1: and we simply didn't want to deal with that, and

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Speaker 1: we never had a conversation about it, but we have

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Speaker 1: an implicit understanding that that's how we would operate on

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Speaker 1: the road. Yes, And I think that's something that was

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Speaker 1: really powerful looking back on the trip that Janee and I,

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Speaker 1: who have been friends a long time, we knew there

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Speaker 1: were things that we just understood between the two of us.

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Speaker 1: It was like we had this radar. We didn't need

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Speaker 1: to say it because we both understood what was happening.

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Speaker 1: Even sometimes during the interviews, people would start to say

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Speaker 1: things and we would both look at each other and

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Speaker 1: we knew just to stop and let them continue talking

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Speaker 1: because what they were about to share with us was

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Speaker 1: coming from a place of trust, a place of just

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Speaker 1: believe that we understood it in our road trip, and

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Speaker 1: often these were stories about things that happened on the road,

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Speaker 1: and they would end and there would be this moment

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Speaker 1: of silence because the three of us in the room understood.

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Speaker 1: I should have asked earlier how the two of you

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Speaker 1: met and started working together. We're not until a long time,

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Speaker 1: Genetta tell the story, it's been a hot minute that

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Speaker 1: because Alvin is a writer, a very gifted writer, and

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Speaker 1: was working on a book with my father in law.

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Speaker 1: And I met Alvin one day when he came to

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Speaker 1: my father in law's office to do some work. We

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Speaker 1: started talking. We hit it off and we have been

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Speaker 1: laughing and sharing stories ever since. And that was probably

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Speaker 1: about twenty years ago. And meals, let's not forget a

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Speaker 1: love of food. That's true. We have a shared love

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Speaker 1: of good food, good music, good conversation. That sounds like

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Speaker 1: like a two thousand mile trip. That's a long trip

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Speaker 1: to take together. Um And as someone who also travels

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Speaker 1: for my job, sometimes having somebody that I know well,

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Speaker 1: that I trust, that I have a positive companionship with

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Speaker 1: makes it so much more of a joy. Even though

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Speaker 1: travel can be challenging. Being in the car was a joy,

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Speaker 1: but it was also a time for both of us

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Speaker 1: to reflect on interviews we had just had, thoughts. We

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Speaker 1: were having personal reflections. I often think that the conversations

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Speaker 1: we had in the car would make their own podcasts

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Speaker 1: because they're really about the two of us as friends.

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Speaker 1: The two of us dealing with our background, thinking about

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Speaker 1: what we had learned, and thinking about the passage of time,

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Speaker 1: connecting the stories we had just heard to contemporary events.

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Speaker 1: So it was really good. I appreciate, Albun what you

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Speaker 1: said about the passage of time, because I think that

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Speaker 1: notion of time is part of the magic of what

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Speaker 1: makes this podcast so special, not just because in this

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Speaker 1: time we're looking back and reflecting on what it was

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Speaker 1: like for African Americans to use the Green Book thirty

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Speaker 1: ft years ago, understanding that so much has changed in

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Speaker 1: that period of time, but that we're also facing so

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Speaker 1: many of the challenges, but also thinking about the different

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Speaker 1: orientations that Alvin and I have to that passage of

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Speaker 1: time because we are of different generations. We've been ends

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Speaker 1: for a couple of decades now, but Alvin and I

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Speaker 1: are not part of the same generation, and I had

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Speaker 1: a much different experience growing up. I was born in

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Speaker 1: the post Civil rights era world, whereas Alvin grew up

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Speaker 1: during the Civil rights era, and the ways that we

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Speaker 1: related to the stories that were being told we're quite different.

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Speaker 1: For Alvin, I do think for you it was like

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Speaker 1: a true homecoming when you heard some of these stories,

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Speaker 1: whereas for me it was a revelation. It was an

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Speaker 1: opportunity for me to be introduced to the elders and

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Speaker 1: their wisdom that I never knew because I did not

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Speaker 1: have the privilege of growing up with African American elders

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Speaker 1: in my family, and so we just had a very

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Speaker 1: different response to what we heard. And I think that

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Speaker 1: that really shines through in the way that these stories

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Speaker 1: ultimately were told. For me, the stories were often deeply penetrating,

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Speaker 1: and I had no barriers to them. I just couldn't.

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Speaker 1: They were like going back into my own past. They

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Speaker 1: were like feeling relatives in the room who had died

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Speaker 1: decades ago. It was like living in the moment when

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Speaker 1: you got the right to vote and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: everybody was cheering. All of that was ever present for me.

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Speaker 1: Emotions were very present in this podcast. There was a

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Speaker 1: lot of laughter, but there were also moments when we

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Speaker 1: would look at each other across the table and there

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Speaker 1: would be tears in folks eyes and we would simply

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Speaker 1: look at one another and share that understanding, that knowledge

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Speaker 1: that even though we are of different generations, were from

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Speaker 1: different parts of the country, we still have a shared

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Speaker 1: experience around our history around segregation and racism in this country.

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Speaker 1: Was this something that the two have you talked to

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Speaker 1: each other about during that car time or was it

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Speaker 1: more introspective A bit of both. Um, Sometimes you didn't

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Speaker 1: need to say anything and other times you just needed

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Speaker 1: to get it out. We interviewed a lady tea Marie

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Speaker 1: King in Birmingham I think it was in Birmingham, I

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Speaker 1: think it was, and she talked about being at the

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Speaker 1: what's commonly called the Lynching Memorial in Montgomery and seeing

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Speaker 1: one of the jars of Earth there with the name

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Speaker 1: of one of her relatives on it. Yeah, and she

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Speaker 1: talked about the moment she saw that because she was

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Speaker 1: giving a tour with other people, looked up and there

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Speaker 1: was the name, and she knew the name immediately. When

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Speaker 1: she told about that, you know that was that was

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Speaker 1: one of those moments where you hearing it you felt wow.

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Speaker 1: But yes, she told us in a very cool, a

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Speaker 1: very balanced way that showed how she had taken this

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Speaker 1: in and she had, as the episode is called, found

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Speaker 1: a place for it. I think often in talking about

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Speaker 1: these things that we heard, it helped both of us

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Speaker 1: to find places for it inside of us because we

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Speaker 1: knew it would never go away. We knew it would

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Speaker 1: be with us for a lifetime, but we had to

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Speaker 1: find a place for it. So before you started this trip,

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Speaker 1: what did you imagine that it was going to be

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Speaker 1: like to do this, that you have an idea in

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Speaker 1: your mind of what this was all going how is

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Speaker 1: going to play out? Oh, that's a wonderful question. And

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Speaker 1: I'll start by saying I immediately had hoped we would

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Speaker 1: eat lots of amazing, delicious soul food, which we did. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: I have never eaten so much incredible for high chicken

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Speaker 1: in my life. But that was, you know, just the culinary,

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Speaker 1: physical aspect of it. I didn't know what to expect.

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Speaker 1: I went into this with a sense of wonder, a

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Speaker 1: sense of searching, and I was looking for not just

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Speaker 1: these parts of history that were never taught to me,

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Speaker 1: but in a way, I think I was also looking

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Speaker 1: for parts of myself that had never been revealed to me,

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Speaker 1: Things about where I came from that I've never known about.

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Speaker 1: Because people are products of the places where they are

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Speaker 1: and the families where they grow up, and I grew

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Speaker 1: up distanced from my African American family, my African American

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Speaker 1: family also has roots in the Deep South in Alabama,

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Speaker 1: and I have never spent any significant amount of time there,

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Speaker 1: but I know that their d n A. I know

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Speaker 1: that that Alabama soil runs through my blood. So I

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Speaker 1: was just excited to go and to be there, to

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Speaker 1: breathe the air, to walk on the streets where perhaps

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Speaker 1: my ancestors, my relatives walked, to see the places that

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Speaker 1: they saw, and also to bear witness to what they survived.

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Speaker 1: I'm still here. I am here because they were strong,

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Speaker 1: they survived, they lived. Their resilience and their grit is

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Speaker 1: evidenced by the fact that I'm here generations later. I've

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Speaker 1: done several other road trips UH related to BBC programs,

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Speaker 1: So for me, part of it is making sure we

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Speaker 1: stay on schedule, making sure we get the interviews down

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Speaker 1: on time, making sure we're on the road on time. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm very much about that because you only have so

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Speaker 1: many days for the entire production. It's like a movie.

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Speaker 1: You have to do it in twelve days or you don't.

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Speaker 1: There's no other time or resources left. So that was

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Speaker 1: always in the back of my mind to keep us going.

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Speaker 1: But I was also very much aware of the potential

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Speaker 1: for danger on the road, for example, if we get stopped,

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Speaker 1: which is why Jeanne drove substantially more than I did.

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Speaker 1: I was also concerned about weather conditions. I was also

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Speaker 1: concerned about finding the places where we were going, because

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Speaker 1: we had no idea where they would located, what types

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Speaker 1: of neighborhoods they were in, whether it would be safe

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Speaker 1: to leave the car. So I was. I was always

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Speaker 1: a little bit concerned. And to me, the surprising thing

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Speaker 1: was when I realized that my concerns often parallel the

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Speaker 1: concerns of the people using the Green Book. Now, where

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Speaker 1: am I going to stay, Where we're gonna find food?

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Speaker 1: You know what happens if something goes wrong? Do we

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Speaker 1: have a number of the call? These were all the

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Speaker 1: same concerns. And here I am in two thousand nineteen

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Speaker 1: on the road, which nay, and we're having the same concerns. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When you were talking earlier about leaving very very early

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Speaker 1: to avoid the possibility of being on the road at night,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I heard so many people telling that

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Speaker 1: exact story in one of the earlier episodes of the podcast. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and people also drove all night long sometimes and they

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Speaker 1: would leave in the middle of the night. Why because

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Speaker 1: they wanted to avoid the white gaze on the road,

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Speaker 1: Because many people don't know that any white person, especially

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Speaker 1: in the South, could stop any black person on the road,

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Speaker 1: and so in order to avoid the chances of that happening,

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Speaker 1: many people drove all night. And also by driving during

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Speaker 1: the day, you avoided the risk of being caught in

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Speaker 1: a sun downtown after the sun went down. Sun downtowns

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Speaker 1: did not permit African American people to be within their

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Speaker 1: borders once the sun went down, or there could be trouble. Janey,

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Speaker 1: when you talked earlier about sort of your your sense

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Speaker 1: going into it, uh, when when I had asked if

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Speaker 1: if there was as an image in your mind of

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Speaker 1: of what this trip was going to be like, Um,

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Speaker 1: how did the trip compare too to how you thought

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Speaker 1: going into it when you were at the other end

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Speaker 1: of it at the end, had it gone the way

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Speaker 1: that you thought that it was going to. I feel

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Speaker 1: like Alvin had a good sense being having gone on

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Speaker 1: several road trips of how that was going to at

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Speaker 1: least most of I was going to get. Well, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna ass thinking I'm going to say something. The trip

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Speaker 1: did not turn out the way I thought it would. Initially,

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Speaker 1: when we thought it through, we were looking for people

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Speaker 1: who had visited certain hotels, certain places in that town,

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Speaker 1: who had eaten a certain restaurants, who could recall what

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Speaker 1: it was like to walk down the black streets and

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Speaker 1: areas of that town. However, I'm going to be very

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Speaker 1: honest and direct about this. I think for a lot

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Speaker 1: of the people we interviewed, it may have been the

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Speaker 1: first time that they were being interviewed by a black couple.

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Speaker 1: And I think that because of the combinations of our

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Speaker 1: personalities our sense of grace, that we made them more

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Speaker 1: comfortable and the stories went beyond just about buildings and

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Speaker 1: places and time, and they started to share personal stories

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Speaker 1: with us. So at the end of the trip, I

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Speaker 1: realized that we had something richer and I could have

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Speaker 1: ever imagined. The people had trusted us, they had given

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Speaker 1: us their personal story, so we could tell the story

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Speaker 1: of the Green Book in their voices, not ours. I'll

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Speaker 1: agree with that. I went into this trip thinking we

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Speaker 1: would follow the schedule that we had set. We had

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Speaker 1: this Alvin had a big atlas of trust of the GPS.

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Speaker 1: He had an actual gigantic map that he would pull

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Speaker 1: out and open. So I thought that, you know, we

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Speaker 1: would follow the map, we would stick to the schedule,

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Speaker 1: we would do all of the interviews as they were

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Speaker 1: lined up, and as we delved deeper into these technical

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Speaker 1: aspects of creating this podcast. What Alvin said is true.

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Speaker 1: The humanity of what we were documenting was revealed to

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Speaker 1: us in this absolutely glorious and respondent and touching way.

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Speaker 1: And I'm really pleased and proud was the way these

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Speaker 1: final stories were captured and shared out with the audience,

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Speaker 1: because I feel like what the audience experiences hearing these

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Speaker 1: stories really mirrors what I felt when I was on

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Speaker 1: this road trip searching for this history. When I started

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Speaker 1: this road trip, I was going off in search of

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Speaker 1: history that I had never learned, history that it was

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Speaker 1: not in my school books. But I found something that

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Speaker 1: was so much deeper. It was really about the humanity

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Speaker 1: of the people who lived in this time, and to me,

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Speaker 1: it was a wonderful surprise. I think for both of us,

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Speaker 1: one of the days, I think we will laugh about

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Speaker 1: it and smile at each other about It's the interview

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Speaker 1: that we started with Anna Nettles and Crystal Churchwell at

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Speaker 1: the First Institute in Nashville. It was such wonderful. They

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Speaker 1: were vibrant, beautiful black women and it was so enthusist

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Speaker 1: as second, so present. And then we interview went to

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Speaker 1: interview on the Nettles on Dr Evelyn Nettles at Tennessee

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Speaker 1: State University, and that evening when we were looking for

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Speaker 1: a place to go to data and said oh, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you're coming to my house. You're coming to and and

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Speaker 1: they all came over. It was so heartwarming and it

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Speaker 1: could have been just like a scene out of a

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Speaker 1: movie about the Real Green Book. We're driving other roads,

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Speaker 1: pouring right and pouring right. We have no idea where

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Speaker 1: we're going, so we're looking for the Nettles house, you know,

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Speaker 1: the safe harbor, so to speak. And we pull up

435
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: and we're driving slowly looking for the numbers, and then

436
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: we see the number. We turn in and the lights

437
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: up there. They come out with towels and umbrellas. It

438
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 1: was so touching it was they ushered us into their home.

439
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: There were warm drinks, hugs. They acted like we were

440
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: a long lost family finally coming to visit after many months,

441
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: when they had just met us earlier that day. It

442
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: was really like being embraced, and it was such an

443
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: incredible experience to understand even just a tiny amount the

444
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: relief that black travelers must have had back then after

445
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: being anxious on the road, especially if they were traveling

446
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: with young children, to show up to a family home

447
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: and to be greeted with such kindness, it's it's extraordinary.

448
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: And this is one of those wonderful days that after

449
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: the interview, we were driving the next day and Jananna

450
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: turned and looked at each other and said, the Nettles

451
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: of Nashville and that that is episode five and the

452
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: concept behind that has not changed since that moment in

453
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: that car. I'm looking forward to that one. At that

454
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 1: that one should be out, I think by the time

455
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: this episode of the show comes out. Um, I do

456
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: want to circle back to the idea. I appreciate this

457
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: podcast so much, and I appreciate your work on it

458
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: so much because I feel like as a like, as

459
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: a white listener, I'm getting a perspective that I would

460
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: not have gotten if someone else had gone to do

461
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: these interviews, and like if if a white podcast host

462
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: had asked the same people similar questions, that their responses

463
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: might not have been as candid. So I'm extraordinarily grateful

464
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: that like this is existing now to share these people's

465
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: experiences and views for all audiences in a way that

466
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: I think, if you know, if I had tried to

467
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: do it, I might not have captured. I think part

468
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,719
Speaker 1: of that is again due to Janet's personality and grace,

469
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: and I always say my southernness. Several times during the interviews,

470
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: people would go where are you from? And I would go,

471
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: from really from Tallassi, Florida. They go, I knew you

472
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: were from the South, or you sound like a relative

473
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: of mine, right, Because I am Southern, I live in

474
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: New York City. I made a deeply Southern person in

475
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: so many ways, and I think that connection was the

476
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: thing that made them more trusting. They knew we weren't

477
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: out to betray them or tricked them. We just wanted

478
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: to have a conversation. And the other part of it

479
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: was because Jane and I are both intelligent people, and

480
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: we talked through everything. We did all of these interviews

481
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: without notes. We weren't sitting there with notes on our

482
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: laps following questions. We were listening to these people, and

483
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: all of our questions and responses came honestly and intuitively

484
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: out of what they were saying, organically out of what

485
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: they were saying. Yeah, that's that's right. We didn't take

486
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: notes because we weren't there to collect these stories as

487
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: if they were merely artifacts. These stories were gifts, and

488
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: it was generous of people to share these gifts with us,

489
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: especially because for many folks, this was not something that

490
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: they had really talked about all both before, and the

491
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: fact that they were speaking about it with me and

492
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: Alvin was profound because we are black people, and black

493
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: history is American history. Black stories are American stories, but

494
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: we wanted to tell these black stories from the black perspective.

495
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: We wanted to center blackness, African American nous in everything,

496
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: in every element of this podcast. And I think you

497
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: can feel that when you listen. It feels authentic, it

498
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: feels true, and we're really honoring the spirit and the

499
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: energy of the people who took the time to share

500
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: these memories with us. And I'd like to add one

501
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: thing to that. I think that all of that was

502
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: enhanced by the work of du Lake Atlantiqua Williams, who

503
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: was the editor. She got the stories emotionally and intellectually

504
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: from the very first day we worked together, and the

505
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: first day we edited one complete program, she got it,

506
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: and then she introduced us to Cedric Wilson, who did

507
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: the soundscaping and did her original score. And I gave

508
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: him some of the music that we had taken on

509
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: the road trip and shared with him some music that

510
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: I love from that period. And I think the soundscaping

511
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: adds to the emotional depth, makes the time passed quickly,

512
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: and it disappears right at the time you need it to,

513
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: and it comes in when you need it to. Next

514
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: up in the interview, Tracy is going to talk with

515
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: Alvin and Jinet about the timing of Driving the Green

516
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: Books release, both in terms of the ongoing COVID nineteen

517
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: pandemic and the pandemic of system of racism. But before

518
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: we get into that, let's take a quick break. When

519
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: do you all were on this trip and a problem

520
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: I imagine when you started working on editing the episodes,

521
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: depending on what your timeline was like, it seems unlikely

522
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: that anyone imagined that this podcast was going to be

523
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: coming out to the public in the middle of a

524
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: pandemic when travel is not being encouraged for anyone. Do

525
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: you think that is going to affect how people here

526
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: and interact with these episodes. We really had no control

527
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: over the release date of this podcast series, uh, and

528
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: I was anxious to get it out, But I think

529
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: in many ways, fates were looking favorably upon us. I

530
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: think that somewhere out there, something or some power believed

531
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: that people needed to hear this story, and it got

532
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: released at this time when people may have been looking

533
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: for something like this. I know that many people were

534
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: at home and had seen the Green Book movie, so

535
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: this provided a nice balance for what they were feeling

536
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: for the movie, and maybe it made them more curious

537
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: about and open to hearing the real story as opposed

538
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: to the Hollywood version. The Hollywood version is a very

539
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: different thing. It is a very different story because it's

540
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: told from the white point of view. It's told from

541
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: the point of view of the driver, not the point

542
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: of view of the African American pianist. Ours, as Jenny said,

543
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: is told from the point of view of a black person.

544
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: Of the black people we interviewed and ourselves we are

545
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: comment about the pandemic. It really makes me think because

546
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,239
Speaker 1: you were referencing the COVID nineteen pandemic and as all

547
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: then said, people being at home and having more time,

548
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: hopefully that makes them more curious to learn the real history.

549
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: But we are also deep in a moment around another pandemic,

550
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: the racism pandemic, which is evidenced by police brutality against

551
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: people of color, by the warranted stops on the road

552
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: that escalate into violence against people of color, and there's

553
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: a growing public consciousness around that. So we're living through

554
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: these twin pandemics of racism and violence against black people.

555
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: Also while we're quarantined at home because of the COVID

556
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: nineteen pandemic, And in an odd way, I think that

557
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: does create a situation where stories like this one really

558
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: speak to the moment that we were in and hopefully

559
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: can help people think about how can we be better

560
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: in the future. I think what Jenny said is absolutely

561
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: spot on. I think I worked on getting the series

562
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: commissioned and realize for over two years, and I believe

563
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: that and when we finally got it commissioned, I was

564
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: thrilled when Jenny said yes, I was thrilled. When we

565
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: started the road trip, I was thrilled, But then we

566
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: had to do production in the production took a little

567
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: bit longer and then when Julaica finally came into the picture,

568
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: it started to move fast. But even after that, there

569
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: were little delays and little delays, and I became concerned. Clearly,

570
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: somewhere out there, some force was the laying this for

571
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:23,439
Speaker 1: this moment. The ancestors, the ancestors exactly. You. You went

572
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: to so many places, you talked to so many people

573
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: for this podcast. Was there anything like a story that

574
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: anyone's told you or or something that happened along the

575
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: way that you really wanted to fit into an episode

576
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: and there just wasn't a good place for it. Oh yes,

577
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: when we were editing, there was a brilliant story when

578
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: um Dr Evelyn Nettles was visiting her grandmother sc Nettles

579
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: down in a Moss Point in Mississippi when she was

580
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: a little girl. Her grandmother gave us money and she

581
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: went into the store to buy some ice cream, and

582
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: of course, being a little girl, she didn't know that

583
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: it was a segregated store. So she was up at

584
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: the counter with her money, about to buy her ice cream,

585
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: and her grandmother was in the car saw her and

586
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: rushed in and grabbed her to get her out of there.

587
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: And she didn't really understand why until much later. There

588
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: were many stories like that about how a parent would

589
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: try to protect their child, and often you heard them

590
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: say later on, I really didn't know what was going

591
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: on because my parents so protected me. We wanted to

592
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: do a whole episode about that, but that was difficult

593
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: to pull off, and so we left that story go.

594
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: And I think the other one was which we kept

595
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 1: in until the last moment, was Crystal church Well when

596
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: we were sitting there in the first museum and across

597
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: from the Amtrak station, and and she looked out of

598
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: the window and said, my father was a porter in

599
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: that station, and they treated him so badly in that

600
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: job that he didn't even last longer there. And he

601
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: or she is sitting in the museum overlooking that station

602
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: where her father was treated so badly. It was just

603
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: one of those rich moments you want to keep in

604
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: because it as texture, but you can't. And there were

605
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: many moments in the car or when Alvin and I

606
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: would tour places and we would share our reflections on

607
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: the stories we heard or these historical sites that we

608
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: were visiting, and those don't appear in the podcast. And

609
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: I do think there is a power in those reflections because,

610
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: as we mentioned earlier, Alvin and I grew up at

611
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: different times in this country and we have had different

612
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 1: experiences being black people in this country. He's a man,

613
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: I'm a woman for a different generations. He grew up

614
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: in the South. I grew up in the Northeast, and

615
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: we still have the shared experience, And so many of

616
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: the stories and reflections we were sharing were grounded in

617
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: some universal fundamental truths that I have discovered hold solid

618
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,919
Speaker 1: I think for most black folks, and I would love

619
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: to be able to share some of the hot someday.

620
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: Are there any of the universal truths that you'd like

621
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 1: to talk about? Now? That we are and optimistic people,

622
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: we could not have lived through Jim Crow segregation, We

623
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: could not have survived all of the red lining that occurred,

624
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: the denial of our rights when we had gone to

625
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: war to fight communism and fascism and then come back

626
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: to this country and be treated the way we were.

627
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: We have to be an optimistic people. Um. We are

628
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: a forgiving people because you hear the stories and most

629
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: of them are really horrific, but people forgive and move on.

630
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: We don't forget, but we forgive and move on because

631
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 1: we know that we have to make a better life

632
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: for ourselves. And I think that while we are aware

633
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: of the past, we try not to let people trap

634
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: us in the past. Many people will refer to black

635
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: people as if you know, there's been no progress since

636
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: no reconstruction, or since Jim pro or since the Great Migration.

637
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: We are a diverse people in America, and we've done

638
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: a lot to help sustain America. I tell everybody we

639
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: are the people with the passing of the Voting Rights

640
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: Act of nineteen who helped America realize the word democracy.

641
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: It's that simple. So there are those crews that we

642
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: all participate in that I think about quite frequently, especially

643
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: in the times in which we live. So Driving the

644
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: Green Book is ten total episodes. I have heard four

645
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: of them. There will be a fifth one out by

646
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: the time this episode comes out. Do you each have

647
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: favorites among those episodes or are they all? Are they

648
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: all at a an equal place in your hearts? Can

649
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 1: any mother choose a favorite of a mother? Well, there's

650
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 1: word I can't listen to. I cannot listen to episode six.

651
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: It is it's so Hank Sandford story of about his mother.

652
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: It's so powerful, so powerful, and it's a simple story.

653
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: And at the very end of it, Janet asked a

654
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: very simple question, what is your mother's name? It's a

655
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: beautiful sequence, and for me, that story is the one

656
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: that lives at me every day, every day. I don't

657
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: think I've let that story go since the time we recorded.

658
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: I will never forget that moment. That is one of

659
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: my most favorite moments of being on the road. I

660
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: remember when he said her name, the hairs on my

661
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: arm stood up, and it was almost as if you

662
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: could feel her presence because we said her name, We

663
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: called her back to us. And another favorite moment was

664
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: when he recalled the march from Selma to Montgomery and

665
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: he talked about Dr King and how he would say

666
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: how long, and the crowd would say not long, and

667
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: then he repeated again, how long, not long? And then

668
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: I asked the question if Dr King was standing in

669
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: front of you today, and he said, how long? How

670
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:52,479
Speaker 1: would you answer that question today? One of those moments

671
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: you never forget. Thank you both so much for talking

672
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: to me today. Is there anything that you would really

673
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: want our listeners to know about driving the Green Book

674
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: or your experience working on it? Oh? I think for

675
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: Jane and me, one of the rich aspects of this

676
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: series is the different accents that you will hear throughout.

677
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: You have Hazekiah opening it, you have the beautiful voice

678
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: of Evelyn Nettles, you have Danny Ransom talking about his

679
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: love of maps, and to me, just to hear all

680
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: of those accents from all over the South, it's just

681
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: so beautiful. It's and I think people need to listen

682
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 1: out for that, because I think that's what really makes

683
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: this better than just going out and doing a simple documentary.

684
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: And there will be long passages in which you will

685
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: hear nothing from Janee, are from me, and all you

686
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: have will be the voices of the people we interviewed.

687
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: My hope is that Driving the Green Book inspires younger

688
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: Black people to seek out the stories of their elders.

689
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: These are not the stories that are commonly told, but

690
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: these are the stories that are so important for us

691
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: to understand collectively who we are and the strength that

692
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: we have and all of the beauty and intelligence and

693
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: grace and wisdom that we have to offer the world.

694
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: There were so many more of these stories. There are

695
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: ten episodes in this podcast. We could have made a hundred.

696
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 1: There are so many more stories, and not just about

697
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: the Green Book. Black people, African Americans, we are extraordinary

698
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: and spectacular. There's so much more to be shared. Thank

699
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: you both again, so so much. Thank you for our

700
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: listeners who want to learn more about the Negro Motors

701
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: screen book. First, of course, there's the excellent podcast that

702
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: we have been talking about for the last uh half hour.

703
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: So Also, the New York Public Library has digitized more

704
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: than twenty years of green books. Um they put them

705
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: online in t and so if you would like to

706
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 1: go browse through them see what it looked like. Those

707
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: are there. And then Driving the Green Book is from

708
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: McMillan Podcasts and it's available on Apple podcast and Stitcher

709
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: and the I Heart Radio app basically anywhere that you

710
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: would like to get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you,

711
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much to Alvin and Janet for taking

712
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: the time to talk with me. It was truly a pleasure.

713
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 1: I really appreciate their work on Driving the Green Book.

714
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: Like I said when I talked to them, I had

715
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: listened to the four episodes that we're already out, and

716
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: they're they're really lovely and thoughtful and insightful. I really

717
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: hope our listeners will check it out. Also, as I

718
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 1: said in the interview, it's the subject we've really need

719
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: to cover on our show for a long time, and

720
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: their approach to it is just really moving and and interesting.

721
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on, Tracy. I am so thankful

722
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: that you made time to do this interview. It came

723
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:14,919
Speaker 1: up at a time when my schedule was not very

724
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: forgiving and willing to make a space, so I really

725
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Since this did run a little bit long,

726
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: and it is a lot of really marvelous information to digest,

727
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: We're not doing listener mail this time, but Tracy, do

728
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: you want to tell people where they can find us? Yes,

729
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: if you would like to email us, you can at

730
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: History Podcast at i heart radio dot com. And then

731
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: we're all over social media at missed in History. That's

732
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: where you'll find our Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, and Instagram. And

733
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: you can subscribe to our show on Apple, podcast, the

734
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: I heart Radio app, and anywhere else you get your podcasts.

735
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of

736
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio,

737
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

738
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: listen to your a ritos H