WEBVTT - Who is Viktor Bout and why might the US trade him for Brittney Griner 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:08.039 Welcome to It Could Happen Here podcast about how the 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:10.640 world is falling apart and sometimes about how to put 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:14.040 it together, but today mostly about the people who are 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:18.079 accelerating the falling apart. Garrison's with me, Sharen's with me. 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.119 We are talking today about the Merchant of Death, the 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:26.800 Lord of War, Victor Boot. So she probably started off 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:30.360 by talking about why we're talking about Victor Boot. Victor 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.000 Boots always an interesting topic of conversation, but he's come 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.879 up recently because he's one of the people who has 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:43.320 been proposed to be exchanged for two US citizens who 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:49.240 are being held by Russia, one being Brittany Grinder and 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:55.040 one being Paul Wheelon. So I'm guessing folks are pretty 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.760 familiar with the Brittany Grinder situation. If if not, what's 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:03.000 the what's the t LDR on that? Yeah, t l 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.040 d R is. Brittney Grinder is a two time Olympic 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:11.279 gold medalist. She's a basketball player and she often plays 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.040 offseason basketball in Russia, which tells you a lot about 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.480 disparities in wages between men and women in professional sport. 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.640 And unfortunately, when she was traveling to Russia, I guess 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:27.759 she had a weed vape cartridge in her back, and 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:34.920 so she was arrested and accused of drug smuggling and yeah, which, yeah, 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.640 like it's as you as as we go through this, 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.760 it will become very clear that I don't think it's 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:46.080 controversial to say that the Russian state engages in hostage taking, 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.600 right for sure. Yeah, I don't think that's like a 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.760 controversial statement that this lady is not drug smuggling. Yeah, 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.520 I too would probably want to take drugs if I 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.720 had to spend my off seasons in Russia. But like, 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.160 it's so transparent what they're doing. It's like they don't 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:06.640 even attempts to not it's just yeah, it's they're are 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:08.960 being sneaky about it. They're very clearly being like, we're 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:12.240 taking this person hostage. Yeah, and we will hold this 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:15.040 person hostage until you give us the person that we 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:19.720 want back right there. And even so, there was a 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:24.040 previous guy. Um, he was a marine held by Russia. 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.200 So there's Paul Wheeler is the other guy, right, Paul 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.400 Wheeland was a marine. He had a he didn't have 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:35.079 a dishonorable discharge. He had what's called I think another 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.880 than honorable discharge. He was doing a couple of things. 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:43.480 He was embezzling shipped from the United States government, which 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:47.840 is pretty based. Yeah, yeah, we should all be so lucky. 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.080 And he was also writing bad checks. His checks were bouncing, 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.919 so he got booted from the Marine Corps for that 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.639 and was doing some kind of private security work, it 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:03.720 seemed like. So he was arrested in Russia. Another former 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.560 Marine towards, Trevor Reid, was arrested, and his cases just 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:11.440 almost comic, like, well, it's not coming. But the guy 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.040 was driving with his girlfriend at the time. They've been 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:16.000 on a big night out there in a car. He 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:20.440 got drunk, got belligerent, started getting fighty uh, and they 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:22.280 pulled over and some of his mates were like, look, 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:24.200 if you don't calm down, we're going to have to 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:26.480 call the police that you keep fighting with us. They 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:28.760 called the police. The police were like, right, we'll take 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.280 you in, you sleep it off, deal with you in 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.680 the morning to kick you out. And then at some 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:37.760 point the next morning, the FSB turned up, which is 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.440 like the inheritor of the legacy of the KGB, and 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.720 we're like, oh, Trevor, why did you attack the cops 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.120 last night? Why why did you do that why why 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.840 would you assault the police, the Russian police, And he 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.120 was like, what are you talking about, bro? And they 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:55.720 were like, yeah, you're going to jail. You're a spy. Yeah. 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.040 So the US government, Biden and the Biden swapped him out. 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.880 And the two who are left, well, there are other 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.200 people left, obviously. But when we stopped out for for 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.720 the other guy, Trevor Read, I'm not sure who was 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.840 traded for Trevor Read. I should look at that real quick. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.080 It's the most like weird. I mean that nothing is 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.200 too strange at this point, but like when you really 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:23.719 think about it, these countries like trading people. Yes, so 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.440 strange to me. Yeah he was, he was. He was 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.520 traded out for someone who was in here on drug 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:35.960 grafting charges. I guess so they switch out Read, right, 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.160 But Read and we Land have become close in their captivity, 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.080 and Read's been a big advocate for having Whelan released. 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.240 Whiland's kind of yeah, you're taking the pit if you 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.520 think Brittany grind is a drug traffica. But Whillan does 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:55.120 have like five different nationalities. I think he's he's got American, 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.360 he's got Canadian. He might only have four. I think 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:02.279 he's got British and Irish um. So he's a former 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.200 service member in the United States and like this guy 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.000 was broke, right he was. He was bouncing checks. As 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.960 we're learning this episode. One of the things intelligence agencies 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.480 tend to like is people who are bouncing checks, Like 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:18.960 those of those people are easy to recruit, right leg 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.520 if you're if you're if you're trying to buy ship 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:25.720 that you can't afford, you might be easier to recruit 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:30.680 if you if they offer you money. Right So it's 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.560 I'm not saying he's Despi. I've got no idea whatsoever. 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.719 I've got no unique insight into that, but I am 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.640 saying that like his case is a little bit more interesting. 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:44.679 So the United States has proposed trading Victor Boot for 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.320 both Grinder and Wheeling. That was kind of doing the 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.400 rim of World for a while, but a Russian source 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:52.960 confirmed it last weekend. So that's why we want to 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.640 talk about Victor Boot today. It's spelled bo Ut by 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:00.719 the way, if anyone's looking up, if people are familiar 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:05.440 with Victor but at all, it will be probably from 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.360 the Nicolas Cage film Lord of War. Have you seen that, 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:13.640 either of you I have not I subjected Chris to it. 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.360 Now Chris can't make the podcast, so that's good. Will 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.919 be Nicolas cage free in this episode. It's a pretty 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.480 epic film. It's a good Nicolas Cage play Boot. Yeah. 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.960 Oh fuck yeah, yeah, I like I need to see 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:32.880 that that I wish, yeah, I wish I could share 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.200 with you, just the scene where like he just turns 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:39.239 to the camera and says something like, there's there's fifty 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:42.000 million guns in the world. That's one for every twelve 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:43.880 people on My only question is how do we are 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.880 the other eleven? But at some point he like just 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:48.719 puffs on a fat cigar in the middle of that. 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:52.159 We have an accent. No, he doesn't do a Russian accent. 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:57.520 Actually that's disappointing. Allegedly, that's a real quote from from 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.160 Victor Boot. By the way, well, if you can find 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.320 a clip, we can slice it in. Yeah. I can 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:04.400 find a clip. I got one. I got one lined 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.840 up on my computer. I will send it to our 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.880 our fair editors. There are over five hundred fifty million 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:16.920 firearms and worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for avery twelve 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:23.640 people on the planet. The only question is how do 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:28.920 we own the other eleven. It's great. It's classic Nicholas Cage. 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:33.960 He can't do anything wrong. It's so true. Ghost ghostwriter 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:40.240 never happened. I don't know what you're talking about. Does 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.920 it does not matter? Nope, It's been a race from 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:48.040 my memory. So, aside from Nicholas Cage's accent betrayal of 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:53.080 the film, isn't shockingly isn't that accurate? Notably, he didn't 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.680 actually grow up in Brighton Beach, Old Victor. He grew 0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:00.600 up in dushan Bay In that's uh was in the 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.800 Tagic province of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Right 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:10.240 now it's into Jikistan's capital. And we know, well, there's 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.440 a lot of stories about this guy. It's very hard 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.880 to confirm which of them is true. There are He's 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.720 clearly told as many background stories, as he's met new 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.880 groups of people, when he's moved around the world, and 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:25.800 as his mom is on the scene. So we do 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:27.960 know that his mother is still alive. I think she's 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.840 eighty five. She will occasionally pop up in the Russian 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.920 press and ask Joe Biden to let her poor innocent 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:38.000 son go, which is very amusing. His dad we know 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.560 was a car mechanic, so he's not like a child 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:45.360 of privilege particularly. But at some point he seems to 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:49.200 have joined the Soviet military, probably the Air Force, and 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:53.880 he's trained at their military academy of languages. And this 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:58.719 guy's capacity for language is insane. He can go down 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:01.640 the shops in like fifteen different languages. He can speak 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:06.880 fluently in half a dozen. He can, you know, order 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:13.959 a sandwich in like twenty languages. Yeah, I want that power, Yeah, 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.720 don't we all? It seems to be like, um, these 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.560 people who like thrive in in like nonstate activities in 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.200 crime and stuff like do seem to like having a 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.720 capacity for language seems to be a massive benefit in 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.559 that world. And you hear about quite a lot later 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:35.040 on when he's in prison in Thailand, he learned Sanskrit. 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.679 Um he doesn't bother to learn Thai. He doesn't want 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:40.960 people to think they can understand what he's saying. But 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.439 so he's like, I'll learned Sanskrit while I'm here, Like 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:48.960 I'm running out of options. So yeah, he's got this 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:53.920 amazing capacity for language, which probably ends up with him 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.720 being a spook. It's not like it's not cast iron 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.800 that he worked for the KGB, But it's that way 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:05.560 we know that he was bouncing around in Angola as 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.959 part of the civil war there, so it's it's unlikely 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:10.719 that he was a pay clerk or like the guy 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.160 who changed the tires on the airplanes. They didn't send 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:18.880 him to Angola. And and when the Soviet Union collapses, 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.600 Victor is in Angola, right, or at least he gets 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:27.000 to Angola pretty quickly, not I think because it's the 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.760 place he wanted to be, but because it was one 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:34.920 of the places that had the least regulations on civilian 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.760 use of military aircraft. So this is where he goes 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.120 from KGB Dute who speaks a lot of languages, to 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:47.880 beginning to be this international arm stealing sort of god. 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:53.240 And he does that by buying these Antonov planes. People 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:55.960 might not be familiar with Antonov. It's just a giant plane. 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.679 It's a huge cargo plane. Obviously a little bit outdated now, 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.440 but you're will see them. But this is like the 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.080 Russian big hauler, right, carries a lot of stuff to 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.840 a lot of places. And by getting those and having 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:15.839 absolutely zero morals, he launches his career and like he's 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.839 not just selling weapons. Certainly to start with, he's um 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.280 American people don't get this thing. We have this British 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.200 stereotype of like the wheeler dealer, as epitomized by like 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.280 Dellboy in a TV series called Only Fools and Horses. 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.200 But he's like a market trader. He'll buy whatever he 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.360 thinks he can score cheap and take it wherever he 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:37.000 thinks he can sell expensive. Right, so he's moving like 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:42.040 frozen chicken. At one point he's moving flowers from South Africa, 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:46.640 and like throughout his career is this massive international arms dealer. 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.400 He'll just be like, oh, chicken over there is super cheap, right, 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:52.679 let's move that chicken over here. We can make a killing. 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:56.880 Like he doesn't I think like we should stress it. 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.319 He's not like a guy who's obsessed with with the 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.960 guns and weapons and killing people. I don't think. I 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:06.679 think he's a guy who has absolutely zero morals and 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.439 it's just like, well, there's a high profit margin on guns, 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.440 so that's where I'll move. But I don't think it's 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:16.280 like there's there seems to be no moral angle to 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:21.120 his his existence. Like very quickly after doing that, he's 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.480 selling weapons into democratic Republic of Congo. He's selling into 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:29.720 Liberia in the conflict there Sierra Leone, Rwanda after the genocide. 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:36.040 He's there, right, but he's also like transporting French troops 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.959 to Rwanda. Later he will be doing contracts for the 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:44.760 United States government, for the British government, for most of 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:48.960 the Western governments participate in the Forever War, right, And 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.160 it's very funny actually, like if you're in the phase 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.880 when the United States is looking for him, which is 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:56.840 a bit later when he becomes like a wanted man. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.320 He keeps doing these different shell company it is right 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.960 to avoid things like sanctions, and the way that he 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.800 the way that the United States Department of Justice publishes 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:09.800 their list, there will be every year or six months, 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.160 so I'll be like, right, no one can do business 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.320 with these companies. They're bad, they're connected to arms dealing. 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.200 And then the United States Department of Defense will go 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:19.880 down its list of people it does business with and 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:21.640 be like, oh, ship, there's like six of them who 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.520 we were like integraly relying on. And then he'll just 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:27.480 change the name and so it's fine cause they change 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.920 their name and then there's like they're it's like Tom 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:31.840 and Jerry or Whack a mole. You know, he keeps 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.880 popping up with these new companies. Um, so he sort 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:41.280 of really gets this massive boost around two thousand and one, 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.719 right with eleven. So nine eleven is a big win 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:51.920 for him. It's well, that's the oppisode, that's the sound by. Yeah. 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:57.000 So he's super tight with Ahmad Shah Masud. People are 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:01.280 familiar presumably with that we call the Northern Alliance, um, 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:05.600 the the people in Afghanistan who the United States back 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:10.040 to fight the Taliban. He'd been selling weapons to Massued 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.600 for a while, and he seems to actually like genuinely 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.640 be friendly with Massud, Like he talks about him, and 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:18.480 we'll get onto how we know him talking about him 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.400 in a little bit, but he talks about him very fondly. 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:25.720 He's he's a big Massud guy. And so he claims 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:29.480 he doesn't trade with the Taliban, and he holds his 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:34.720 claim up for a long as time until crew his 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.720 plane and crew are held by the Taliban at an 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.840 airport in Afghanistan, which like how did they get their victor? 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:46.320 And there's two really, like there's two stories about how 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.920 they escape. The one story is that like the Taliban 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:53.200 require them to maintain this plane every so often because 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:55.440 they want to be able to use the plane. Right, 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.800 So these these Russian guys are these these contractors for 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:03.480 Victor for are doing maintenance on the plane and then 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:08.600 they like in sort of like Michael Caine movie style, 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.040 like cosh their guards over the head, jump start the 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.040 plane and just pin it to the end of the runway, 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.320 take off and fly to freedom. And that's the narrative 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.640 that was like popular until Victor Boot was like, nah, 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:21.880 like I know all those people I just called and 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:24.960 was like, do you want to do business with Victor 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.000 Boot or do you want to hold this plane hostage? 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.120 Because it's one or the other and you're fund without 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.520 me and seem Yeah, it's a shame. I like. I 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.600 like Story one better. I like Story to Story too 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.440 is objectively, in my opinion, a little bit more badass 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:41.880 on his part, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.480 the power he has. Yeah, oh yeah, I think when 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:49.080 this this guy clicks his fingers, the world, the world listens, 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:53.520 like I certainly did until he was in prison learning sanscript. Yeah, 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:55.880 if you're the pilot, there's There was an interview I 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.200 found on YouTube with one of his pilots as well, 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.840 where he's like, yeah, and you can't do that for 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.240 very long. He's like, we're constantly landing, like we're being 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:05.240 shot at. Woman landing, we're being shot at when we're 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:07.600 taking off, Like we get on the ground and just 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.680 like eat everything out the back and then just take 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.080 off again. And like we make a ton of money 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:14.920 because no one else is prepared to do that, but 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.160 probably isn't great for your long term well being. And 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:23.320 so he's by like this sort of peak of his 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.760 career in the early two thousand. He's got hundreds of employees, 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:31.920 he's got sixty aircraft, and he has moved his operation 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.720 to Charger, which is a very sort of conservative emirate. 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.800 It's we're still one of the dry emirates, right, but 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:43.120 it has what's called a free trade zone. So on 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.520 top of all his other ship, he's also not paying 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:51.600 import export taxes and so he's based there, which seems 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.600 to allow him to operate pretty much without impunity. He's 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:59.880 moving a ton of small arms from Ukraine, so at 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.800 the end of the Soviet Union, Ukraine makes a big 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:06.280 thing of being like we're returning on nuclear weapons, right, 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.360 people will be familiar with this that they don't want 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.760 their nukes anymore. Um. But they also amassed just an 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:19.160 incredible amount of small arms, right, So that's like guns, bombs, grenades, 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.879 things like that, right, machine guns. And because a bunch 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.680 of the what was the Soviet military small arms the 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.080 stored in Ukraine, that becomes like the nexus for the 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:34.320 black market. And we think that if ethnically Ukrainian, and 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.560 he certainly seems to have just been shoveling weapons out 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.960 of Ukraine to conflicts in largely in Africa, right, Like, 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:43.800 if there's a civil war that you know about in 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.000 Africa or one that you don't know about, probably both 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.320 sides are using his weapons like that, that's a that's 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.520 a fair assumption to make. And by the late nineties 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:58.439 early two thousands, he's selling everywhere and using his business 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.600 to laund the money for other leagual activities. And he 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.320 was he was linked to the Kadafi regime. He was 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.480 also selling to rebels in Libya. Um. So it's a 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:13.200 huge operation. He's the go to guy for weapons, right, 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.919 and he sort of comes and they Interpol go after him. 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.480 In two thousand and two, there's a Belgian warrant for him, 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:25.280 but Belgiums of having to drop their case because it's 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.040 unclear where he lives, so they can't be like, yeah, 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:30.359 he's a resident here, he's a Belgian resident, because Interpol like, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.080 now this this guy keeps moving around like it's not 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.800 clear if you have jurisdiction. Central African Republic also, I 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.919 think had a warrant out for him, but they haven't 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:45.639 I guess, been successful in serving that warrant. M And 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.080 in the in the Belgian when they dropped their case, 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.520 they noted that it would be impossible and very time 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:55.000 consuming to prosecute him, which is kind of funny given 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.679 that he's doing a lot of crimes. But despite this, 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.800 in two thousand and three, he does this incredible piece 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:06.840 with The New York Times, like this thousands of words 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:12.400 profile interview of the world's largest arm stealer. It's like 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:16.480 a relic of another era of journalism. They send this 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.040 writer all around the world to like look for Victor Boo, 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:24.240 to try and find Victor Boole. Yeah, two thousand and three, 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.800 there was a different era that was completely different. Yeah, yeah, 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.640 that is. Yeah, it's a shame. You look at I look. 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:33.240 I looked at it and I just couldn't help but 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.520 being like this. But they just let this person expense 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:40.119 a ship out of flights. Wow, like this, this doesn't 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:43.119 happen anymore. Such a shame. I would love to go 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.400 to a Russian nightclub and drink carriage juice with armed 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:49.600 stealers on the job. Yeah. Yeah, and then build that, 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.320 build that to the New York Times and yeah, in 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:58.800 the PC drinks carriage Jews. He's vegetarian, he caught himself, 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:05.320 a scapegoat and a family man. He's what a hero? Yeah, 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.359 he's just an everyday Joe trying to sell some collash 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.840 and egos to people who are doing genocide. And he 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:17.399 is does this interview? How we know a lot about him? Yes? 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:21.840 That and his uh, this man loves a handicap. He 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:28.600 loves a home video right, international crimes the best idea 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:32.760 we ever had. Quirky little dude. But he's not doing 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:37.840 crimes in his videos. He just looks like like like 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:40.040 the guy from the office who is just like the 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.679 most mundane dude and ill fitting suit. He just looks 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.640 like a salary man who drives like a regular car 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:50.080 and on the weekends like to like go to Buffalo 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:53.760 Wild wings and what sports events. Like he goes on 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:57.159 the water slide with his like white ass body and 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.280 pot belly at one point in one of these firm videos, 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.879 and like he just yeah, he just strikes you as 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:08.560 the most boring family guy, Like he's not he seems 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:12.720 to be like morally opposed to doing drugs one point. 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:17.920 It's fascinating and bizarre and one of assuming he has 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.560 children if he's a family man. I think he does 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:23.440 have children, certainly has a wife. His wife is out there. 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:27.080 His wife is pretty vocal about let let let my 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:31.159 man go right right, Yeah, so I'm pretty sure he 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.160 does have children. Yeah, probably more than we know about, 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:36.760 but maybe not. Maybe he's your wife guy. Well, I 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:38.919 just think it's funny in these home videos he's in 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:47.280 them like he's like no one else, no family. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:51.400 that would be pretty yeah, that would be pretty pretty entertaining. 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:14.159 So two thousand and three, where it's the the article 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.440 clearly has these two thousand and three vibes, Like it's 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.320 named after George Bernard Shure play called Arms and the Man, 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:24.520 and it's just like epic and meandering and very long, 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:29.080 and he talks about in the article he's like, look, 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:33.760 they're using me as a scapegoat, Like this is a 0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:37.359 thing that like the reason there that it's very hard 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:41.280 to prosecute Victor boot is because there are not that 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:44.320 many laws against arms stealing. And the reason there are 0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:47.920 not that many laws against arm stealing is because it's 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:52.800 integral to how we do foreign policy, right, Like we 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:55.879 are hosed without people like Victor Boo. And that's like 0:22:57.040 --> 0:22:59.520 the other side of this coin that yeah, we need 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:01.879 a nickel cage bad guy to pin this stuff on. 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:05.280 And yeah, he he did some pretty horrific things or 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:09.640 sold weapons to people who did horrific things, but he 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:15.760 what he's doing is not that like abnormal and it's 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:19.320 not that always illegal, and as we'll see when the 0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:23.040 US has to enter into like gross entrapment to arrest 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:28.439 this guy. And he is right that like is he 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:30.919 really the biggest arms deader in the world or is 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:34.960 that like Dick Cheney or you know, Lockheed Martin or 0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:40.560 friends of the podcast Raytheon, Like is he really anymore 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:42.960 evil than like I live in San Diego, right or 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:45.520 most of the companies I just mentioned have offices here 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:47.639 a road past one of them today, you know, and 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:50.840 those people also go on the waterside with their kids. 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:54.359 And he does have a kid. He has a daughter, 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:58.240 one daughter or a child, I don't know, born in 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:04.720 the Emirates and they're really are now. Yeah, he's a 0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:07.600 great dad. He's been in jail for a lot of 0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:12.160 their life. Actually, yeah, he has a wife to Allah. 0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:16.679 It's his wife, just she was. She's a fair bit 0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:21.160 younger than him. Um so. Also, he's really lost weight 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:23.680 in jail, and he's looking pretty good. Have you seen 0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:26.000 a recent picture of him, but with a mustache and stuff, 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:31.280 He's really he's having a glow up, I think in jail. 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:37.280 Are you pretty thirsty for Victor? Here? Yeah? You look 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:39.560 at that mustache. Tell me you could say no to that. 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:43.080 And one of the things he says in this interview, 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:46.040 which is interesting is if I told you everything I know, 0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:49.080 I'd get the red hole right here, and then points 0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:56.359 to the middle of his forehead. I yeah, poet. He 0:24:56.440 --> 0:24:59.640