Speaker 1: Welcome to It Could Happen Here podcast about how the
Speaker 1: world is falling apart and sometimes about how to put
Speaker 1: it together, but today mostly about the people who are
Speaker 1: accelerating the falling apart. Garrison's with me, Sharen's with me.
Speaker 1: We are talking today about the Merchant of Death, the
Speaker 1: Lord of War, Victor Boot. So she probably started off
Speaker 1: by talking about why we're talking about Victor Boot. Victor
Speaker 1: Boots always an interesting topic of conversation, but he's come
Speaker 1: up recently because he's one of the people who has
Speaker 1: been proposed to be exchanged for two US citizens who
Speaker 1: are being held by Russia, one being Brittany Grinder and
Speaker 1: one being Paul Wheelon. So I'm guessing folks are pretty
Speaker 1: familiar with the Brittany Grinder situation. If if not, what's
Speaker 1: the what's the t LDR on that? Yeah, t l
Speaker 1: d R is. Brittney Grinder is a two time Olympic
Speaker 1: gold medalist. She's a basketball player and she often plays
Speaker 1: offseason basketball in Russia, which tells you a lot about
Speaker 1: disparities in wages between men and women in professional sport.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, when she was traveling to Russia, I guess
Speaker 1: she had a weed vape cartridge in her back, and
Speaker 1: so she was arrested and accused of drug smuggling and yeah, which, yeah,
Speaker 1: like it's as you as as we go through this,
Speaker 1: it will become very clear that I don't think it's
Speaker 1: controversial to say that the Russian state engages in hostage taking,
Speaker 1: right for sure. Yeah, I don't think that's like a
Speaker 1: controversial statement that this lady is not drug smuggling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I too would probably want to take drugs if I
Speaker 1: had to spend my off seasons in Russia. But like,
Speaker 1: it's so transparent what they're doing. It's like they don't
Speaker 1: even attempts to not it's just yeah, it's they're are
Speaker 1: being sneaky about it. They're very clearly being like, we're
Speaker 1: taking this person hostage. Yeah, and we will hold this
Speaker 1: person hostage until you give us the person that we
Speaker 1: want back right there. And even so, there was a
Speaker 1: previous guy. Um, he was a marine held by Russia.
Speaker 1: So there's Paul Wheeler is the other guy, right, Paul
Speaker 1: Wheeland was a marine. He had a he didn't have
Speaker 1: a dishonorable discharge. He had what's called I think another
Speaker 1: than honorable discharge. He was doing a couple of things.
Speaker 1: He was embezzling shipped from the United States government, which
Speaker 1: is pretty based. Yeah, yeah, we should all be so lucky.
Speaker 1: And he was also writing bad checks. His checks were bouncing,
Speaker 1: so he got booted from the Marine Corps for that
Speaker 1: and was doing some kind of private security work, it
Speaker 1: seemed like. So he was arrested in Russia. Another former
Speaker 1: Marine towards, Trevor Reid, was arrested, and his cases just
Speaker 1: almost comic, like, well, it's not coming. But the guy
Speaker 1: was driving with his girlfriend at the time. They've been
Speaker 1: on a big night out there in a car. He
Speaker 1: got drunk, got belligerent, started getting fighty uh, and they
Speaker 1: pulled over and some of his mates were like, look,
Speaker 1: if you don't calm down, we're going to have to
Speaker 1: call the police that you keep fighting with us. They
Speaker 1: called the police. The police were like, right, we'll take
Speaker 1: you in, you sleep it off, deal with you in
Speaker 1: the morning to kick you out. And then at some
Speaker 1: point the next morning, the FSB turned up, which is
Speaker 1: like the inheritor of the legacy of the KGB, and
Speaker 1: we're like, oh, Trevor, why did you attack the cops
Speaker 1: last night? Why why did you do that why why
Speaker 1: would you assault the police, the Russian police, And he
Speaker 1: was like, what are you talking about, bro? And they
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, you're going to jail. You're a spy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the US government, Biden and the Biden swapped him out.
Speaker 1: And the two who are left, well, there are other
Speaker 1: people left, obviously. But when we stopped out for for
Speaker 1: the other guy, Trevor Read, I'm not sure who was
Speaker 1: traded for Trevor Read. I should look at that real quick.
Speaker 1: It's the most like weird. I mean that nothing is
Speaker 1: too strange at this point, but like when you really
Speaker 1: think about it, these countries like trading people. Yes, so
Speaker 1: strange to me. Yeah he was, he was. He was
Speaker 1: traded out for someone who was in here on drug
Speaker 1: grafting charges. I guess so they switch out Read, right,
Speaker 1: But Read and we Land have become close in their captivity,
Speaker 1: and Read's been a big advocate for having Whelan released.
Speaker 1: Whiland's kind of yeah, you're taking the pit if you
Speaker 1: think Brittany grind is a drug traffica. But Whillan does
Speaker 1: have like five different nationalities. I think he's he's got American,
Speaker 1: he's got Canadian. He might only have four. I think
Speaker 1: he's got British and Irish um. So he's a former
Speaker 1: service member in the United States and like this guy
Speaker 1: was broke, right he was. He was bouncing checks. As
Speaker 1: we're learning this episode. One of the things intelligence agencies
Speaker 1: tend to like is people who are bouncing checks, Like
Speaker 1: those of those people are easy to recruit, right leg
Speaker 1: if you're if you're if you're trying to buy ship
Speaker 1: that you can't afford, you might be easier to recruit
Speaker 1: if you if they offer you money. Right So it's
Speaker 1: I'm not saying he's Despi. I've got no idea whatsoever.
Speaker 1: I've got no unique insight into that, but I am
Speaker 1: saying that like his case is a little bit more interesting.
Speaker 1: So the United States has proposed trading Victor Boot for
Speaker 1: both Grinder and Wheeling. That was kind of doing the
Speaker 1: rim of World for a while, but a Russian source
Speaker 1: confirmed it last weekend. So that's why we want to
Speaker 1: talk about Victor Boot today. It's spelled bo Ut by
Speaker 1: the way, if anyone's looking up, if people are familiar
Speaker 1: with Victor but at all, it will be probably from
Speaker 1: the Nicolas Cage film Lord of War. Have you seen that,
Speaker 1: either of you I have not I subjected Chris to it.
Speaker 1: Now Chris can't make the podcast, so that's good. Will
Speaker 1: be Nicolas cage free in this episode. It's a pretty
Speaker 1: epic film. It's a good Nicolas Cage play Boot. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh fuck yeah, yeah, I like I need to see
Speaker 1: that that I wish, yeah, I wish I could share
Speaker 1: with you, just the scene where like he just turns
Speaker 1: to the camera and says something like, there's there's fifty
Speaker 1: million guns in the world. That's one for every twelve
Speaker 1: people on My only question is how do we are
Speaker 1: the other eleven? But at some point he like just
Speaker 1: puffs on a fat cigar in the middle of that.
Speaker 1: We have an accent. No, he doesn't do a Russian accent.
Speaker 1: Actually that's disappointing. Allegedly, that's a real quote from from
Speaker 1: Victor Boot. By the way, well, if you can find
Speaker 1: a clip, we can slice it in. Yeah. I can
Speaker 1: find a clip. I got one. I got one lined
Speaker 1: up on my computer. I will send it to our
Speaker 1: our fair editors. There are over five hundred fifty million
Speaker 1: firearms and worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for avery twelve
Speaker 1: people on the planet. The only question is how do
Speaker 1: we own the other eleven. It's great. It's classic Nicholas Cage.
Speaker 1: He can't do anything wrong. It's so true. Ghost ghostwriter
Speaker 1: never happened. I don't know what you're talking about. Does
Speaker 1: it does not matter? Nope, It's been a race from
Speaker 1: my memory. So, aside from Nicholas Cage's accent betrayal of
Speaker 1: the film, isn't shockingly isn't that accurate? Notably, he didn't
Speaker 1: actually grow up in Brighton Beach, Old Victor. He grew
Speaker 1: up in dushan Bay In that's uh was in the
Speaker 1: Tagic province of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Right
Speaker 1: now it's into Jikistan's capital. And we know, well, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of stories about this guy. It's very hard
Speaker 1: to confirm which of them is true. There are He's
Speaker 1: clearly told as many background stories, as he's met new
Speaker 1: groups of people, when he's moved around the world, and
Speaker 1: as his mom is on the scene. So we do
Speaker 1: know that his mother is still alive. I think she's
Speaker 1: eighty five. She will occasionally pop up in the Russian
Speaker 1: press and ask Joe Biden to let her poor innocent
Speaker 1: son go, which is very amusing. His dad we know
Speaker 1: was a car mechanic, so he's not like a child
Speaker 1: of privilege particularly. But at some point he seems to
Speaker 1: have joined the Soviet military, probably the Air Force, and
Speaker 1: he's trained at their military academy of languages. And this
Speaker 1: guy's capacity for language is insane. He can go down
Speaker 1: the shops in like fifteen different languages. He can speak
Speaker 1: fluently in half a dozen. He can, you know, order
Speaker 1: a sandwich in like twenty languages. Yeah, I want that power, Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't we all? It seems to be like, um, these
Speaker 1: people who like thrive in in like nonstate activities in
Speaker 1: crime and stuff like do seem to like having a
Speaker 1: capacity for language seems to be a massive benefit in
Speaker 1: that world. And you hear about quite a lot later
Speaker 1: on when he's in prison in Thailand, he learned Sanskrit.
Speaker 1: Um he doesn't bother to learn Thai. He doesn't want
Speaker 1: people to think they can understand what he's saying. But
Speaker 1: so he's like, I'll learned Sanskrit while I'm here, Like
Speaker 1: I'm running out of options. So yeah, he's got this
Speaker 1: amazing capacity for language, which probably ends up with him
Speaker 1: being a spook. It's not like it's not cast iron
Speaker 1: that he worked for the KGB, But it's that way
Speaker 1: we know that he was bouncing around in Angola as
Speaker 1: part of the civil war there, so it's it's unlikely
Speaker 1: that he was a pay clerk or like the guy
Speaker 1: who changed the tires on the airplanes. They didn't send
Speaker 1: him to Angola. And and when the Soviet Union collapses,
Speaker 1: Victor is in Angola, right, or at least he gets
Speaker 1: to Angola pretty quickly, not I think because it's the
Speaker 1: place he wanted to be, but because it was one
Speaker 1: of the places that had the least regulations on civilian
Speaker 1: use of military aircraft. So this is where he goes
Speaker 1: from KGB Dute who speaks a lot of languages, to
Speaker 1: beginning to be this international arm stealing sort of god.
Speaker 1: And he does that by buying these Antonov planes. People
Speaker 1: might not be familiar with Antonov. It's just a giant plane.
Speaker 1: It's a huge cargo plane. Obviously a little bit outdated now,
Speaker 1: but you're will see them. But this is like the
Speaker 1: Russian big hauler, right, carries a lot of stuff to
Speaker 1: a lot of places. And by getting those and having
Speaker 1: absolutely zero morals, he launches his career and like he's
Speaker 1: not just selling weapons. Certainly to start with, he's um
Speaker 1: American people don't get this thing. We have this British
Speaker 1: stereotype of like the wheeler dealer, as epitomized by like
Speaker 1: Dellboy in a TV series called Only Fools and Horses.
Speaker 1: But he's like a market trader. He'll buy whatever he
Speaker 1: thinks he can score cheap and take it wherever he
Speaker 1: thinks he can sell expensive. Right, so he's moving like
Speaker 1: frozen chicken. At one point he's moving flowers from South Africa,
Speaker 1: and like throughout his career is this massive international arms dealer.
Speaker 1: He'll just be like, oh, chicken over there is super cheap, right,
Speaker 1: let's move that chicken over here. We can make a killing.
Speaker 1: Like he doesn't I think like we should stress it.
Speaker 1: He's not like a guy who's obsessed with with the
Speaker 1: guns and weapons and killing people. I don't think. I
Speaker 1: think he's a guy who has absolutely zero morals and
Speaker 1: it's just like, well, there's a high profit margin on guns,
Speaker 1: so that's where I'll move. But I don't think it's
Speaker 1: like there's there seems to be no moral angle to
Speaker 1: his his existence. Like very quickly after doing that, he's
Speaker 1: selling weapons into democratic Republic of Congo. He's selling into
Speaker 1: Liberia in the conflict there Sierra Leone, Rwanda after the genocide.
Speaker 1: He's there, right, but he's also like transporting French troops
Speaker 1: to Rwanda. Later he will be doing contracts for the
Speaker 1: United States government, for the British government, for most of
Speaker 1: the Western governments participate in the Forever War, right, And
Speaker 1: it's very funny actually, like if you're in the phase
Speaker 1: when the United States is looking for him, which is
Speaker 1: a bit later when he becomes like a wanted man.
Speaker 1: He keeps doing these different shell company it is right
Speaker 1: to avoid things like sanctions, and the way that he
Speaker 1: the way that the United States Department of Justice publishes
Speaker 1: their list, there will be every year or six months,
Speaker 1: so I'll be like, right, no one can do business
Speaker 1: with these companies. They're bad, they're connected to arms dealing.
Speaker 1: And then the United States Department of Defense will go
Speaker 1: down its list of people it does business with and
Speaker 1: be like, oh, ship, there's like six of them who
Speaker 1: we were like integraly relying on. And then he'll just
Speaker 1: change the name and so it's fine cause they change
Speaker 1: their name and then there's like they're it's like Tom
Speaker 1: and Jerry or Whack a mole. You know, he keeps
Speaker 1: popping up with these new companies. Um, so he sort
Speaker 1: of really gets this massive boost around two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: right with eleven. So nine eleven is a big win
Speaker 1: for him. It's well, that's the oppisode, that's the sound by. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So he's super tight with Ahmad Shah Masud. People are
Speaker 1: familiar presumably with that we call the Northern Alliance, um,
Speaker 1: the the people in Afghanistan who the United States back
Speaker 1: to fight the Taliban. He'd been selling weapons to Massued
Speaker 1: for a while, and he seems to actually like genuinely
Speaker 1: be friendly with Massud, Like he talks about him, and
Speaker 1: we'll get onto how we know him talking about him
Speaker 1: in a little bit, but he talks about him very fondly.
Speaker 1: He's he's a big Massud guy. And so he claims
Speaker 1: he doesn't trade with the Taliban, and he holds his
Speaker 1: claim up for a long as time until crew his
Speaker 1: plane and crew are held by the Taliban at an
Speaker 1: airport in Afghanistan, which like how did they get their victor?
Speaker 1: And there's two really, like there's two stories about how
Speaker 1: they escape. The one story is that like the Taliban
Speaker 1: require them to maintain this plane every so often because
Speaker 1: they want to be able to use the plane. Right,
Speaker 1: So these these Russian guys are these these contractors for
Speaker 1: Victor for are doing maintenance on the plane and then
Speaker 1: they like in sort of like Michael Caine movie style,
Speaker 1: like cosh their guards over the head, jump start the
Speaker 1: plane and just pin it to the end of the runway,
Speaker 1: take off and fly to freedom. And that's the narrative
Speaker 1: that was like popular until Victor Boot was like, nah,
Speaker 1: like I know all those people I just called and
Speaker 1: was like, do you want to do business with Victor
Speaker 1: Boot or do you want to hold this plane hostage?
Speaker 1: Because it's one or the other and you're fund without
Speaker 1: me and seem Yeah, it's a shame. I like. I
Speaker 1: like Story one better. I like Story to Story too
Speaker 1: is objectively, in my opinion, a little bit more badass
Speaker 1: on his part, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the power he has. Yeah, oh yeah, I think when
Speaker 1: this this guy clicks his fingers, the world, the world listens,
Speaker 1: like I certainly did until he was in prison learning sanscript. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're the pilot, there's There was an interview I
Speaker 1: found on YouTube with one of his pilots as well,
Speaker 1: where he's like, yeah, and you can't do that for
Speaker 1: very long. He's like, we're constantly landing, like we're being
Speaker 1: shot at. Woman landing, we're being shot at when we're
Speaker 1: taking off, Like we get on the ground and just
Speaker 1: like eat everything out the back and then just take
Speaker 1: off again. And like we make a ton of money
Speaker 1: because no one else is prepared to do that, but
Speaker 1: probably isn't great for your long term well being. And
Speaker 1: so he's by like this sort of peak of his
Speaker 1: career in the early two thousand. He's got hundreds of employees,
Speaker 1: he's got sixty aircraft, and he has moved his operation
Speaker 1: to Charger, which is a very sort of conservative emirate.
Speaker 1: It's we're still one of the dry emirates, right, but
Speaker 1: it has what's called a free trade zone. So on
Speaker 1: top of all his other ship, he's also not paying
Speaker 1: import export taxes and so he's based there, which seems
Speaker 1: to allow him to operate pretty much without impunity. He's
Speaker 1: moving a ton of small arms from Ukraine, so at
Speaker 1: the end of the Soviet Union, Ukraine makes a big
Speaker 1: thing of being like we're returning on nuclear weapons, right,
Speaker 1: people will be familiar with this that they don't want
Speaker 1: their nukes anymore. Um. But they also amassed just an
Speaker 1: incredible amount of small arms, right, So that's like guns, bombs, grenades,
Speaker 1: things like that, right, machine guns. And because a bunch
Speaker 1: of the what was the Soviet military small arms the
Speaker 1: stored in Ukraine, that becomes like the nexus for the
Speaker 1: black market. And we think that if ethnically Ukrainian, and
Speaker 1: he certainly seems to have just been shoveling weapons out
Speaker 1: of Ukraine to conflicts in largely in Africa, right, Like,
Speaker 1: if there's a civil war that you know about in
Speaker 1: Africa or one that you don't know about, probably both
Speaker 1: sides are using his weapons like that, that's a that's
Speaker 1: a fair assumption to make. And by the late nineties
Speaker 1: early two thousands, he's selling everywhere and using his business
Speaker 1: to laund the money for other leagual activities. And he
Speaker 1: was he was linked to the Kadafi regime. He was
Speaker 1: also selling to rebels in Libya. Um. So it's a
Speaker 1: huge operation. He's the go to guy for weapons, right,
Speaker 1: and he sort of comes and they Interpol go after him.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, there's a Belgian warrant for him,
Speaker 1: but Belgiums of having to drop their case because it's
Speaker 1: unclear where he lives, so they can't be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a resident here, he's a Belgian resident, because Interpol like,
Speaker 1: now this this guy keeps moving around like it's not
Speaker 1: clear if you have jurisdiction. Central African Republic also, I
Speaker 1: think had a warrant out for him, but they haven't
Speaker 1: I guess, been successful in serving that warrant. M And
Speaker 1: in the in the Belgian when they dropped their case,
Speaker 1: they noted that it would be impossible and very time
Speaker 1: consuming to prosecute him, which is kind of funny given
Speaker 1: that he's doing a lot of crimes. But despite this,
Speaker 1: in two thousand and three, he does this incredible piece
Speaker 1: with The New York Times, like this thousands of words
Speaker 1: profile interview of the world's largest arm stealer. It's like
Speaker 1: a relic of another era of journalism. They send this
Speaker 1: writer all around the world to like look for Victor Boo,
Speaker 1: to try and find Victor Boole. Yeah, two thousand and three,
Speaker 1: there was a different era that was completely different. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that is. Yeah, it's a shame. You look at I look.
Speaker 1: I looked at it and I just couldn't help but
Speaker 1: being like this. But they just let this person expense
Speaker 1: a ship out of flights. Wow, like this, this doesn't
Speaker 1: happen anymore. Such a shame. I would love to go
Speaker 1: to a Russian nightclub and drink carriage juice with armed
Speaker 1: stealers on the job. Yeah. Yeah, and then build that,
Speaker 1: build that to the New York Times and yeah, in
Speaker 1: the PC drinks carriage Jews. He's vegetarian, he caught himself,
Speaker 1: a scapegoat and a family man. He's what a hero? Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's just an everyday Joe trying to sell some collash
Speaker 1: and egos to people who are doing genocide. And he
Speaker 1: is does this interview? How we know a lot about him? Yes?
Speaker 1: That and his uh, this man loves a handicap. He
Speaker 1: loves a home video right, international crimes the best idea
Speaker 1: we ever had. Quirky little dude. But he's not doing
Speaker 1: crimes in his videos. He just looks like like like
Speaker 1: the guy from the office who is just like the
Speaker 1: most mundane dude and ill fitting suit. He just looks
Speaker 1: like a salary man who drives like a regular car
Speaker 1: and on the weekends like to like go to Buffalo
Speaker 1: Wild wings and what sports events. Like he goes on
Speaker 1: the water slide with his like white ass body and
Speaker 1: pot belly at one point in one of these firm videos,
Speaker 1: and like he just yeah, he just strikes you as
Speaker 1: the most boring family guy, Like he's not he seems
Speaker 1: to be like morally opposed to doing drugs one point.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating and bizarre and one of assuming he has
Speaker 1: children if he's a family man. I think he does
Speaker 1: have children, certainly has a wife. His wife is out there.
Speaker 1: His wife is pretty vocal about let let let my
Speaker 1: man go right right, Yeah, so I'm pretty sure he
Speaker 1: does have children. Yeah, probably more than we know about,
Speaker 1: but maybe not. Maybe he's your wife guy. Well, I
Speaker 1: just think it's funny in these home videos he's in
Speaker 1: them like he's like no one else, no family. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that would be pretty yeah, that would be pretty pretty entertaining.
Speaker 1: So two thousand and three, where it's the the article
Speaker 1: clearly has these two thousand and three vibes, Like it's
Speaker 1: named after George Bernard Shure play called Arms and the Man,
Speaker 1: and it's just like epic and meandering and very long,
Speaker 1: and he talks about in the article he's like, look,
Speaker 1: they're using me as a scapegoat, Like this is a
Speaker 1: thing that like the reason there that it's very hard
Speaker 1: to prosecute Victor boot is because there are not that
Speaker 1: many laws against arms stealing. And the reason there are
Speaker 1: not that many laws against arm stealing is because it's
Speaker 1: integral to how we do foreign policy, right, Like we
Speaker 1: are hosed without people like Victor Boo. And that's like
Speaker 1: the other side of this coin that yeah, we need
Speaker 1: a nickel cage bad guy to pin this stuff on.
Speaker 1: And yeah, he he did some pretty horrific things or
Speaker 1: sold weapons to people who did horrific things, but he
Speaker 1: what he's doing is not that like abnormal and it's
Speaker 1: not that always illegal, and as we'll see when the
Speaker 1: US has to enter into like gross entrapment to arrest
Speaker 1: this guy. And he is right that like is he
Speaker 1: really the biggest arms deader in the world or is
Speaker 1: that like Dick Cheney or you know, Lockheed Martin or
Speaker 1: friends of the podcast Raytheon, Like is he really anymore
Speaker 1: evil than like I live in San Diego, right or
Speaker 1: most of the companies I just mentioned have offices here
Speaker 1: a road past one of them today, you know, and
Speaker 1: those people also go on the waterside with their kids.
Speaker 1: And he does have a kid. He has a daughter,
Speaker 1: one daughter or a child, I don't know, born in
Speaker 1: the Emirates and they're really are now. Yeah, he's a
Speaker 1: great dad. He's been in jail for a lot of
Speaker 1: their life. Actually, yeah, he has a wife to Allah.
Speaker 1: It's his wife, just she was. She's a fair bit
Speaker 1: younger than him. Um so. Also, he's really lost weight
Speaker 1: in jail, and he's looking pretty good. Have you seen
Speaker 1: a recent picture of him, but with a mustache and stuff,
Speaker 1: He's really he's having a glow up, I think in jail.
Speaker 1: Are you pretty thirsty for Victor? Here? Yeah? You look
Speaker 1: at that mustache. Tell me you could say no to that.
Speaker 1: And one of the things he says in this interview,
Speaker 1: which is interesting is if I told you everything I know,
Speaker 1: I'd get the red hole right here, and then points
Speaker 1: to the middle of his forehead. I yeah, poet. He
Speaker 1: has a way with words. Yeah, and yeah, he's got
Speaker 1: somebody great one liners, which it's people have recently like
Speaker 1: reinterpreted that to be like does he know some ship
Speaker 1: about put it? Which is why Russia is so keen
Speaker 1: to exchange it? Or is he just saying about like
Speaker 1: like he might possibly have something like signed by someone
Speaker 1: who's today as senator, right, like engaging in business with
Speaker 1: one of his companies or something like that, because that's
Speaker 1: how this works. And so yeah, I don't know. He's
Speaker 1: rich and powerful. People have probably done business with him,
Speaker 1: whether they knew it or not, and he's aware of this.
Speaker 1: So that article really bounces him up in the sort
Speaker 1: of world bad Guys List, which is when Nick Cage
Speaker 1: steps in reads that makes a whole just there's a
Speaker 1: whole vibe about it that moves the person to Brighton
Speaker 1: beach Um because I guess American audiences don't know is
Speaker 1: yeah to Gekastan no less. Uh So, if you're looking
Speaker 1: for a film the notorious Mr Boot that's the Home
Speaker 1: Videos Sundance Film Festival Award winner just depicting his dad
Speaker 1: bought adventures. I think I think it's worth it. You're
Speaker 1: serious it was at Sundance. Yeah, it's classic. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure they working with me. I know all the time,
Speaker 1: and I will believe anything at this point, So that
Speaker 1: sounds crazy to me. A film YEP screen at the
Speaker 1: Sundance Film Festival. Holy shit, Yep. It's a classic. Um,
Speaker 1: it's got it's got some real scenes seriously, like on
Speaker 1: Rotten Tomatoes. Yep. And if you watch, if you watch
Speaker 1: the trailer, actually you get it. There's like some pictures
Speaker 1: of him like dad dancing with his his partner at
Speaker 1: the time. It's just yeah, it's good stuff. I would
Speaker 1: recommend it. And it's pictures to him around lots of weapons,
Speaker 1: the notorious Mr Boots. Yep, yep, Mr Boots. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a kitty. It's yeah, it's very very busy. It's just
Speaker 1: a quirky little dude. Like what what a little a
Speaker 1: little dude? Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a picture impretention, I
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's not like it's just do
Speaker 1: you expect him to be like evil and I don't know,
Speaker 1: smoking in a dark room all the time. No, this
Speaker 1: is how they get away with it. They're quirky little dudes. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like you would see this guy right, like you go
Speaker 1: to the lounge, like I've spent a decent amount of
Speaker 1: my life it lounges in like small airports in like
Speaker 1: the Middle East, Africa whenever trying to fly cheap. You
Speaker 1: would see this student in the lounge, and you wouldn't
Speaker 1: be like, oh, there goes in international arms dealer. You'd
Speaker 1: be like if that man is in U Semiconductors, you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: like he's not. He's not the joker, And no, he
Speaker 1: is a joker that you can see him having some
Speaker 1: good old japes in this film. When Nicholas Cage plays him,
Speaker 1: he doesn't even have a mustache. I know that's disappointing
Speaker 1: because that is his trademark feature. Well okay, okay, so
Speaker 1: technically the character Nicholas Cage plays is a fictional illegal
Speaker 1: arms dealer that's correct based on the stories of Victor
Speaker 1: about and other real life arms stealers and smugglers. Okay,
Speaker 1: they want to play both ways. Yeah, so I've just
Speaker 1: got a bit in a trailer where it's just like
Speaker 1: eye contact with the camera hip thrusting and it's troubling. Wow. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: thank you for that description. Alright, the cutter edge of
Speaker 1: journalism here, Yes, that's right. Alright, So we should return
Speaker 1: to to the narrative and not my description of a
Speaker 1: Victor Beats dancing. So, um, his arrest is kind of
Speaker 1: fascinating and again, like his arrest is one of those
Speaker 1: things where you're like, oh, this is terrible, and then
Speaker 1: you realize that again, we do this ship all the time, right,
Speaker 1: and so he to understand his arrest, you've got to
Speaker 1: first understand this guy, Andrew Smoollian former, he's British, he's
Speaker 1: born in Britain, but he's a South African Air Force officer.
Speaker 1: Then he goes into commercial flying, but at some point
Speaker 1: he's turned by their intelligence agency. So he's delivering shipments
Speaker 1: of stuff and then doing a little bit spying on
Speaker 1: the side. Spying on the side. Yeah, yeah, who's the
Speaker 1: one hasn't found themselves doing a little Everyone has their
Speaker 1: side hustles they decide spying for the I don't know
Speaker 1: if he was doing in the apartheid era, but probably
Speaker 1: we're certainly in their military in the Aparthei era. Yikes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: smoothly is not not a man with morals, I don't think,
Speaker 1: as we'll find out. So Smoolean has fallen on hard
Speaker 1: times by two thousand and seven and is working in
Speaker 1: a hypodermic syringe factory in Tanzania. And that's just the
Speaker 1: fact that I found without context, and I haven't felt
Speaker 1: any need to research further. And at that point. Slowly,
Speaker 1: it's contacted by two fuck generals right revolutionary Enforces Columbia
Speaker 1: fuck right left wing Marxist guerrilla group that have been
Speaker 1: fighting in the Jungles for I think they're one of
Speaker 1: the world's longest insurgencies for decades. So these fuck generals
Speaker 1: are like, hey, Smolian, come and meet us in a
Speaker 1: tiki bar in curis out and we will have a chat. Smolean, right,
Speaker 1: he wants to get out the syringe factory, so he's
Speaker 1: got about it up on it. He hops on the
Speaker 1: plane and they meet in a tiki bar, right, which
Speaker 1: is obviously a good place to do at Armstel there.
Speaker 1: I mean, movies are right about that. Then a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff going down. Yep, that's a That's the one
Speaker 1: thing that was factually correct in the whole Cinematic University
Speaker 1: Victor boot. So they're in the tiki bart right now.
Speaker 1: It should be noted that these two farn generals, shockingly
Speaker 1: are not really fun generals. They are d e A assets.
Speaker 1: In fact, they have been high ranking offices in the
Speaker 1: Colombian Armed Forces, but they've decided to pivot to a
Speaker 1: career in selling cocaine, and in that career pivot. They've
Speaker 1: unfortunately come into contact with the d A, which is
Speaker 1: generally not good. Yeah right, they're just trying to sell
Speaker 1: cocaine and do war crimes against Yeah. Yeah, they're just
Speaker 1: vibing and killing indigenous people. Probably. They have a pretty
Speaker 1: rough record in the Columbian military. It's fair to say,
Speaker 1: Uh so d A C. Seven is like, yet those
Speaker 1: are our people, and gives them a ton of money,
Speaker 1: citizenship embassy for their families, I believe, and turns them right.
Speaker 1: Asked him to pretend to be funk generals, which they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: can you can you spell the word you're saying? What
Speaker 1: is the Yeah? A smatters Revolution Colombia. Thank you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like sorry, f A R C. Fuck. I might have
Speaker 1: got the act I am. I am someone that does
Speaker 1: not know what that is. So you will be honest
Speaker 1: about that. Sorry. You know, there's no reason to unless
Speaker 1: you're like a, I don't know a global conflict to
Speaker 1: understand the slash doc. They're very nice people, some of them. Actually, Um,
Speaker 1: they've started micro brewery. Now, yeah, they have a micro brewery.
Speaker 1: Anything you say they're fucking I will send you a
Speaker 1: story I wrote on their micro brewery. Unlike Scarred by Robert.
Speaker 1: He just tells me all these crazy things that are
Speaker 1: not true what I believe. I'm not like Robert. I'm
Speaker 1: a man of the truth. I'm gonna I would drop
Speaker 1: it in the chat, like, yeah, they definitely have started
Speaker 1: a micro brewery. These are such a weird little dudes saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: actually the person who runs a micro brewery is a woman.
Speaker 1: Uh good, good for her feminism. We love a girl. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they love a girl. Bus a funk. We're very committed
Speaker 1: to dender quality. They had women there in their in
Speaker 1: their military. Yeah, we'll do an episode of Robert and
Speaker 1: I want to go to their micro brewery. It's one
Speaker 1: of my why not sure we've we've got this far.
Speaker 1: No one's caught us up. Yeah. So anyway, Interestingly, the
Speaker 1: US government had just done exactly the same thing to Monzerlkassa,
Speaker 1: who's a Syrian arms dealer. They've done the same we're
Speaker 1: too far to generals, we would like to buy these weapons,
Speaker 1: and in the discussion the quote unquote fuck generals are like,
Speaker 1: we would like to buy these weapons to kill Yankees.
Speaker 1: We want to kill Americans. It would be great to
Speaker 1: have this gun with a sniper scope so we could
Speaker 1: see if they're American before we shoot them. Just like
Speaker 1: this is where this is where we get to like
Speaker 1: the entrapment, right, and this Rellian is like, yeah, whatever, bro,
Speaker 1: like you want guns? I know a guy and they're
Speaker 1: like to kill the Americans. So and he's like whatever
Speaker 1: you need. Okay, it's getting weird, um. But then smoolelyan
Speaker 1: master of stealth that he is, goes, okay, so my
Speaker 1: guy's Victor boot v I K T O R B
Speaker 1: O U T. Oh my god, that is that is
Speaker 1: a poor move and Smoothy's part, So Smoothy drops a minute.
Speaker 1: They organize a meeting, right the two generals quote unquote
Speaker 1: generals and Victor in a hotel Bangkok, and that is
Speaker 1: where the Victor Boots story sort of ends, at least
Speaker 1: the free Victor Boots story ends. So they go through
Speaker 1: the deal and again he's being like, I can't believe
Speaker 1: he conducted his whole life like this because his his
Speaker 1: degree of concern with security is minimal. That he'll be like,
Speaker 1: you guys are getting like five thousand a K forty
Speaker 1: seven's also some surface to wear missiles and like writing
Speaker 1: it on the hotel notepad. Amazing. Yeah, like normally this
Speaker 1: isn't the Like the d A rolled a yakuza arms
Speaker 1: dealer recently and they had to explain in court that
Speaker 1: like when he was talking about cake and ice cream,
Speaker 1: he meant like surface to wear missiles. The same for me. Actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to head down to the cake shop.
Speaker 1: That guy funked up by sending a selfie of himself
Speaker 1: with an anti tank weapon to the Jesus Christ. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's good. It's a good picture. I'll send you that picture.
Speaker 1: Because he does look like an international supervillain. He has
Speaker 1: blue aviators. I think, like, oh my gosh, some people
Speaker 1: know they're playing the part, you know what I mean, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta lean in, and he leans in. But so
Speaker 1: about is in this in this room where he's negotiating
Speaker 1: with his two Colombian friends and income the Taype police. Right,
Speaker 1: It's interesting the way the d A say it. They're like,
Speaker 1: he put his hands in the bag and we all
Speaker 1: pointed our guns at him, or like Victor, no, it's over,
Speaker 1: and and like they thought he was going to pull
Speaker 1: a gun on them, but like in the video he
Speaker 1: kind of is just like and then he goes. I
Speaker 1: think he says the game is up. He has some
Speaker 1: like Bond villain like a line of course, is he
Speaker 1: the poet? What did I say? Yeah, yeah, that's why
Speaker 1: that they're letting him out for his contribution to do.
Speaker 1: What if there's ever like an obituary I want he
Speaker 1: was a poet, sharide just like he yes, quotely on
Speaker 1: that sure acclaimed podcast, this is Red Dart to describe
Speaker 1: a gunshot on his grooms. He was the poet, nothing else,
Speaker 1: poet and no other gigs. I was aware of what
Speaker 1: sliding dutist. And so they arrest him, right, They hold
Speaker 1: him in Thailand for a while. He fights the extradition.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm just a businessman. I don't know what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. I just wanted to sell your cake
Speaker 1: and ice cream or whatever. And eventually they bring him
Speaker 1: back to the United States. They try him in this
Speaker 1: federal jurisdiction in New York, where they try nearly every
Speaker 1: big terrorism case like this, right, like the recent oh
Speaker 1: nine A case was in the same jurisdiction, so like
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Yeah, they always do it in New York.
Speaker 1: I think they His trial was like September or October,
Speaker 1: like in the you know, you're trying someone like seven
Speaker 1: years after nine eleven, six years after nine eleven in
Speaker 1: New York, around the anniversary of what happened eleven, right,
Speaker 1: so people are pretty and then you're like in this
Speaker 1: dude sold weapons to the Taliban, and he moved gold
Speaker 1: out of Afghanistan for al Quaeda, and he's pretty screwed.
Speaker 1: Cancel culture strikes again. Yeah, the work mob came for Victor,
Speaker 1: and his wife says outside the court, which I thought
Speaker 1: was interesting that they're trying Nicolas Cage not my husband.
Speaker 1: Oh ship, that's actually a really interesting statement in terms
Speaker 1: of like media perceptions of people. I agree with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they do not go after this guy until the New
Speaker 1: York Times and then Victor and then what's it called
Speaker 1: the Nicolas Cage movie, Lord of War? Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: you can't separate. I don't think the like, look, he's
Speaker 1: a piece of shit, but like he did make a
Speaker 1: movie about himself, though he didn't make that. No, someone
Speaker 1: else got that. They already sent like seven years after
Speaker 1: he gone down. Okay, I didn't look at the date that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like, that's why I was imagining to get
Speaker 1: completely different up until just this second. My mistake the
Speaker 1: Sundance film was yeah, like seven seven years later, Victor Boots,
Speaker 1: it would have been amazing if yeah, get that up
Speaker 1: with our listeners, ship, we could get it up to
Speaker 1: the nineties. I reckon m getting there the thumbs up.
Speaker 1: So I think they probably did write Like in organizations
Speaker 1: like the d A, in these big federal law enforcement agencies,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who want top jobs,
Speaker 1: and I think one of the ways to advance is
Speaker 1: getting one of these big busts. Right. I have very
Speaker 1: little federal law enforcement understanding, but it strikes me that
Speaker 1: they kind of they had the d A agent in
Speaker 1: charge of his arrest on ABC I think or in
Speaker 1: sixty minutes or something, the guy talks about himself in
Speaker 1: the third person one point on there. It's a bit weird.
Speaker 1: It's clearly like a career defining a thing, right, And
Speaker 1: I really don't think it would have been if like
Speaker 1: no one made a film about Monterroel Castle, right, he
Speaker 1: was selling all the weapons too, and they didn't you know,
Speaker 1: they didn't trap him in the same way. Actually, but
Speaker 1: it's it's not such a big thing. So Boot goes
Speaker 1: to jail, he's been in jail about twelve years now,
Speaker 1: and now the Biden administration seems to want rid of
Speaker 1: him or at least know that he's like worth offering.
Speaker 1: And they offered him in trade for Snowdon apparently, uh yeah,
Speaker 1: and Russia didn't take that. Um. I think it's probably
Speaker 1: that they see more value in Snowden. But the yeah,
Speaker 1: they seem to have offered him again in the in
Speaker 1: this grinder wheeling trade. It's still unclear if Russia will
Speaker 1: accept him or not. Like we said before, it's a
Speaker 1: very weird practice to be like like Pokemon cards, Yeah,
Speaker 1: are like literally like the NBA, like the thing that yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty greater works for. It's like you're literally creating like
Speaker 1: a fantasy team or whatever, the ship of of prisoners
Speaker 1: and or people that you want the hostages. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting to see like Russia kind of just
Speaker 1: like I don't know if they sort of want to
Speaker 1: be like, look how much we owned you, Like we
Speaker 1: made you trade the world's most notorious arms dealer for
Speaker 1: a basketball player, Like if they if they just see
Speaker 1: the kind of uh, I don't know, the ridiculousness of
Speaker 1: what they've done to somehow win for them, or if
Speaker 1: Russia wants him back because he has some kind of
Speaker 1: intel that they're afraid of. I'm not sure if that's
Speaker 1: the case. He lived in Moscow for a while, but
Speaker 1: he I didn't know how close he was to the
Speaker 1: Russian state. I'm sure he knows some stuff. It's almost
Speaker 1: does not much of a state in the world that
Speaker 1: he doesn't have something on, right, So it's possible, And
Speaker 1: I guess he's kind of served his purpose to United States,
Speaker 1: which was just like, you know, we can find you anywhere,
Speaker 1: we can come after you anywhere. Um, we can arrestue
Speaker 1: And I don't want to be like like pro armed
Speaker 1: dealer on the podcast, but like on the podcast, off
Speaker 1: the podcast, completely different, Unlike James is gonna say that
Speaker 1: we're not technically pro arms stealing. This is not not
Speaker 1: a pro stealing podcast. Technically, Yeah, that would be a
Speaker 1: good place for an ad pivot, wouldn't it. But do
Speaker 1: you know who is pro stealing? Yeah, based on I
Speaker 1: don't know how long we have left though and mix here,
Speaker 1: but we can leave the joke in prove that we're funny,
Speaker 1: yeah exactly, that we sometimes think about the Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're considerate and funny y yeah, and kind and not
Speaker 1: pro arms dealer and most apportantly Yeah. Yeah. So Victor
Speaker 1: is in prison. He's been in prison for about twelve years.
Speaker 1: He's got he got twenty five years. The judge actually
Speaker 1: was like, like, you've not proved he was going to
Speaker 1: do any crimes other than the ones you kind of
Speaker 1: talked him into, like a fair Yeah. Yeah, it woke
Speaker 1: judge because again, when they're meeting him, they're like, we
Speaker 1: want to kill Americans. Can you make sure the scopes
Speaker 1: a high enough magnification so we can see their Americans.
Speaker 1: There's some specific dialogue about the sniper scopes to like
Speaker 1: to to ensure and they they're trying to get surface
Speaker 1: to our missiles as well, right, and surface to our
Speaker 1: missiles one of the harder things to acquire in the
Speaker 1: international arms market. And so he's gonna supply those. And
Speaker 1: they claim they're going to shoot down Arican airliners and
Speaker 1: do a terrorism. Yeah, that'll definitely get them mad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're again, well, but he only says that because the
Speaker 1: two d a plants. Yeah, yeah, I don't think the
Speaker 1: dude would a bat nihilid either way. I mean, typical
Speaker 1: fed behavior right, Like, Yeah, they walked in there in
Speaker 1: the cool flannel shirts and he did Hey, who is
Speaker 1: excelled the doing crime. I don't want to do a crime.
Speaker 1: Let me escalate the level of crime. So he's in prison.
Speaker 1: They've offered to trade him. It remains to be seen, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know how relevant he will be if he
Speaker 1: comes out. It's interesting, Like the area I'm most familiar
Speaker 1: with off the books firearms transactions is in Myanmar, right, Robert, Now,
Speaker 1: I've spent some time writing about that, and the price
Speaker 1: of weapons going small arms going two rebels in Miama
Speaker 1: is insane right now, Like, it's incredibly high. And so
Speaker 1: maybe taking him out has changed that market a bit.
Speaker 1: I don't know. You'd think someone would have stepped in
Speaker 1: to fill that gap in the time that he'd been
Speaker 1: out of the game. You'd think, especially after the giant
Speaker 1: clusterfucker of leaving Afghanistan by the States a year ago,
Speaker 1: we'd have done a lot more weapons onto the market.
Speaker 1: So what you're saying is there's a job opening. Yeah,
Speaker 1: get your resume ready, listeners, Yeah, you know, learn those languages.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying to the other applicants. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: learned sanscrit. But on your resume, no one will call
Speaker 1: you on it. It'll be fine. It's okay to lie
Speaker 1: about Sanskrit unless you're, I guess, going to theological college.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's learned Sanskrit, he's learned a bunch of
Speaker 1: other languages in prison. He's probably writing poems in there
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, he's probably dropping a book, is what
Speaker 1: he'll do, or come out we'll drop a book. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm not I wouldn't be surprised by that if that
Speaker 1: was true. I read a book written by one of
Speaker 1: the world's most famous international arms dealers. Add poets, and
Speaker 1: that's right, add poets. Hey, based on what the quotes
Speaker 1: are that he's given so far, I'm sure he has
Speaker 1: really good writing. So yeah, yeah, who knows. We don't
Speaker 1: know how much money he has. No one seems it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem very clear. He's done a good job of
Speaker 1: hiding it. We don't know what the state of his businesses.
Speaker 1: It seems like he has just kind of pieced out
Speaker 1: hang Out and Joe and maybe now we'll be going
Speaker 1: back to Russia to live in his dacha and just
Speaker 1: write poetry and going water slides all day we can dream.
Speaker 1: It feels like, yeah, if they offered him for Snowden
Speaker 1: already and now they're offering him again, is he he's
Speaker 1: either the only like quote unquote good Russian hostage, like
Speaker 1: worth worthy Russian hostage or they In my head, I
Speaker 1: feel like they're trying to make a big statement like
Speaker 1: Brittany Grinder is so important to us here you could
Speaker 1: have this man. That makes sense? Yeah, it does, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope. I mean, look, what's happening to her is disgusting, right,
Speaker 1: and every day she spent abhorrent and so like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you hope that that they I think, Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: he's he's a big name and there's no real I
Speaker 1: don't know, it doesn't really serve the interests of the
Speaker 1: state to keep him in prison, right, Like the big
Speaker 1: win was getting him there, and that I think showed
Speaker 1: people doing what he does that like the US will
Speaker 1: come after you and and so like that was what
Speaker 1: they wanted. Really, I think twelve years is a long
Speaker 1: enough time, you know, Like so I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't understand the motivations of world leaders. But hopefully we
Speaker 1: get up this, I don't know, Hopefully Brittany grinded doesn't
Speaker 1: have to spend any longer in what I'm sure it
Speaker 1: is a pretty terrible Russian prison for having a vape pen,
Speaker 1: because that is bollocks. And I just want to say
Speaker 1: before we finish up here that we are indebted to
Speaker 1: our friend Matt, who is at I think black Flag
Speaker 1: Enjoyer on Twitter or raccoon Liberation Front Black Flag Enjoyers
Speaker 1: Matt's Handel. Matt actually came on to help us do
Speaker 1: an interview with this. Matt has worked in a lot
Speaker 1: of these places, not as an arms dealer, I should add,
Speaker 1: but doing some like civil engineering, and even thinks that
Speaker 1: he ran into Victor Boot in a bar in Somali
Speaker 1: land once and because if we discussed you would not
Speaker 1: know that the student was an arms dealer. Unfortunately, Matt's
Speaker 1: audio was unrecoverable and so we were very much debt
Speaker 1: for his help. And you should follow him on Twitter
Speaker 1: if you want to anything else. We should plug Sharine Garrison.
Speaker 1: Now I think I think that doesn't for us today,
Speaker 1: so just google Victor Boot poetry. Enjoy your weekend.