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Speaker 1: I had it explained to me one time by a

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Speaker 1: judge in court. Not hunting seemed like I had killed

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Speaker 1: a turkey during the wrong dates and times. He said,

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Speaker 1: why did you do that? I said, well, where I'm from,

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Speaker 1: when your tomatoes get right, you pick them. When your

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Speaker 1: potatoes get right, you dig them. When your turkeys are right,

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Speaker 1: you go get you on. Yeah. But he said, that's

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Speaker 1: not the way we do it. You have laws at

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Speaker 1: govern when you kill them and when you can. But

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Speaker 1: he explained that to me.

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Speaker 2: I traveled a couple of hours south and slightly west

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Speaker 2: from my home on Wednesday, March twenty sixth, twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: to meet with a man who I was told might

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Speaker 2: be the most interesting man in Lafleur County, Oklahoma. I

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Speaker 2: hardly knew anything about him, in all though I talked

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Speaker 2: to people for a living. While I was in my truck,

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Speaker 2: and when I got within about two miles of his cabin,

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Speaker 2: I started to get nervous. He was described to me

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Speaker 2: as a kind man, loved by those who know him,

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Speaker 2: but with a checkered past and an uncanny expertise in

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Speaker 2: wild turkeys. Why he'd agreed to talk with me, I

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Speaker 2: wasn't sure, and I began to doubt why I had

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Speaker 2: agreed to come. This is real rural America, not the

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Speaker 2: curated version that I sometimes like to talk about. This

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Speaker 2: one has addiction, illegal hunting, and broken relationships. But I

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Speaker 2: had no idea I'd be impacted so much. This is

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Speaker 2: an unusual Bear Grease, dark at times, funny at others,

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Speaker 2: but I was surprised at the arc of redemption. You'll

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Speaker 2: have to forgive me because I'm still sorting out the details,

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Speaker 2: but I'd like to share with you the confession of

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Speaker 2: this former outlaw. I really doubt that you're going to

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Speaker 2: want to miss this one. My name is Clay Nukem,

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Speaker 2: and this is the Bear Grease Podcast, where we'll explore

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Speaker 2: things forgotten but relevant, search for insight and unlikely places,

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Speaker 2: and where we'll tell the story of Americans who live

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Speaker 2: their lives close to the land. Presented by f HF Gear,

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Speaker 2: American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear as designed

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Speaker 2: to be as rugged as the place as we explore.

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Speaker 1: I had a friend, and people that hunt know When

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Speaker 1: Ben Rogers Lee Ben Lee world Champion caller hunter good

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Speaker 1: friend being got killed in a vehicle accident, he was

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Speaker 1: at my turkey camp. We hunted the first part of Caeson,

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Speaker 1: and he tried to give me to quit and go

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Speaker 1: with him to Alabama. He said, you like this game,

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Speaker 1: You're good at it. I see it in you. I

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Speaker 1: see potential in you. You need to quit what you're

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Speaker 1: doing and go with me, and I ah make you

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Speaker 1: famous and me rich. And I said, no, I can't quit. Well,

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Speaker 1: O God, I've got a good job, good family, got cattle.

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Speaker 1: I can't do that.

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Speaker 2: This is the voice of Johnny Johnston. You've probably never

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Speaker 2: heard of him, but I doubt that you'll forget him.

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Speaker 2: On the walk from the truck to the door of

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Speaker 2: his cabin, I estimated there to be no less than

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Speaker 2: twelve well taken care of hunting dogs scattered within sight, beagles,

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Speaker 2: running walkers, and bird dogs. To Johnny, being called a

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Speaker 2: hillbilly is a term of endearment, and he identifies as one.

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Speaker 2: And by his definition, the highest drinking qualification has nothing

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Speaker 2: to do with hounds or overalls. But it's not being superficial.

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Speaker 2: This story is about Johnny's life and we'll learn some

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Speaker 2: foundational stuff that started on this hunt with Ben Lee.

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Speaker 1: So he left, I stayed continued to Hunt. Hunt was

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Speaker 1: over into seasion. I was going to go out west

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Speaker 1: in Turkey Hunt and I had a gun and some

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Speaker 1: stuff at Octavia friend of mine's house, and I was

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Speaker 1: supposed to have been there that got my stuff, and

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Speaker 1: I never showed up, so we came looking for me

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Speaker 1: and found me. I had flipped my gep over, broke

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Speaker 1: my neck, broke my back, cut my left ear off,

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Speaker 1: crushed the foot bunge of rib. Critical condition. Well. They

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Speaker 1: loaded me in the back of a Bronco and took

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Speaker 1: me to the hospital, and my wife was there pretty upset.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember any of it. There was from drinking involved.

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Speaker 1: There is something to that drinking and drive. Because since

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Speaker 1: I've quit drinking fifteen years straight n or nineteen days ago,

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Speaker 1: I had a night of rouge.

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Speaker 2: When people know to the day how long they've been sober,

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Speaker 2: the days prior to that were probably tough. Johnny is

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Speaker 2: from the small town of heaven Or, Oklahoma. He was

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Speaker 2: born in nineteen forty nine. He's seventy five years old.

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Speaker 2: He's been married to the same woman for fifty five years.

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Speaker 2: He's of average height. He has a wiry build with

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Speaker 2: dark eyes that squint tight when he smiles. We're inside

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Speaker 2: of his small white cabin with interior walls of rough

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Speaker 2: san oak turkey beards hanging wads from deer antlers like

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Speaker 2: clusters of grapes. Every single beard has a tag attached

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Speaker 2: to it. There's no cell service here, but he doesn't

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Speaker 2: on a cell phone or a computer. He never had.

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Speaker 2: Let's get back to the hospital. This wreck sounds really bad.

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Speaker 1: But I was telling her they would fix me the

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Speaker 1: best they could right then, and they could later come

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Speaker 1: back and fix my ear. And I said, oh, I

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Speaker 1: forgot to tell you. My ear is in the right

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Speaker 1: front pocket of my Camelflaud.

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Speaker 2: You told him that.

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Speaker 1: I told the doctor that on the gurner going into surgery,

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Speaker 1: and he said, go look at his clothes and see

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Speaker 1: if you find an ear. And a nurse came running

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Speaker 1: down the hall and said, I've got an ear. And

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Speaker 1: so they took my ear, and he said, well, we'll

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Speaker 1: do the best we can. And I raared up again

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Speaker 1: and said he so I on backwards where I hear

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Speaker 1: them turkeys walking behind me.

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Speaker 2: That story tips us off to two things, how central

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Speaker 2: wild turkeys have been in his life, and that he

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Speaker 2: is a character. This whole story is about Johnny's life,

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Speaker 2: some of it very personal, but I'm interested in his

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Speaker 2: relationship with the law as it relates to wild turkeys.

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Speaker 2: People's relationship to the law is helpful in understanding our society,

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Speaker 2: not the one we think we have, but the one

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Speaker 2: we actually do have. Johnny is a rare find, willing

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Speaker 2: to be vulnerable. When a stranger showed up me and

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Speaker 2: asked about some of the darkest times of his life,

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Speaker 2: I think we should start off with that. Credit to

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Speaker 2: his ledger. In the last three years, no less than

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Speaker 2: half a dozen people have emphatically told me that I

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Speaker 2: needed to come here to Johnny's, including a game warden,

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Speaker 2: but nobody could really articulate why. There's a lot I

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Speaker 2: don't know about Johnny. So I'm going to begin with

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Speaker 2: a question about his friendship to a particularly famous turkey hunter.

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Speaker 2: You may have heard of him. Tell me about your

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Speaker 2: relationship with Ben Lee.

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Speaker 1: He's a super nice guy, big man walking this hooting,

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Speaker 1: this yap and this human I oversaw. He went from

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Speaker 1: daylight to the door, charged him turkey. He knew turkey,

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Speaker 1: he knew how to hunt. He had a call company

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Speaker 1: made call He was just a good, good fellow. I

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Speaker 1: liked you. He just had away with people.

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Speaker 2: Now, how did you meet him?

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Speaker 1: Through a friend of mine hunting down there and I

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Speaker 1: told him where they could find some turkeys, and they

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Speaker 1: went there and hunted, and he said, I want to

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Speaker 1: meet this guy told us about this spot where the

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Speaker 1: turkey dore and I tell many. He invited me up

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Speaker 1: there to talk, and we just went hunting and killed

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Speaker 1: a turkey and hit it off. He'd come down and

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Speaker 1: camped with me ever spring after that.

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Speaker 2: This story isn't about Ben Rogers Lee, but his connection

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Speaker 2: to Johnny is beyond interesting. Ben was from Jackson, Alabama,

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Speaker 2: and has been referred to as the father of modern

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Speaker 2: turkey hunting. He started his call company, ben Lee Calls

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Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy and made a flurry of instructional tapes, videos, seminars,

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Speaker 2: and won five turkey calling World Championships. He was a

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Speaker 2: Southern style storyteller and was one of the great communicators

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Speaker 2: of American turkey hunting. Here's a clip of Ben Lee.

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Speaker 3: Sitting out there any woods. She's laid a few eggs,

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Speaker 3: you know. He gets up there in the morning at

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Speaker 3: four o'clock, you know, and old Ale, well he'll out

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Speaker 3: wakes him up here. Boy, he just had his law.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he just ready for ever thing to happen.

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Speaker 1: So instructional tapes. We're a big then. Turkey hunting was

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Speaker 1: just getting going. Mouth called, we're just coming out. My

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Speaker 1: old turkey hunting friend, one that I hunted with, used

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Speaker 1: a gold horn and a piece of slate. Now, I excided,

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Speaker 1: could you get on a gold horn? They clucked a

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Speaker 1: couple of time i's and three soft yeps and put

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Speaker 1: it down, And that was completely reverse way being legal. Honey.

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Speaker 1: He never shut up. He walked calling turkey gobbled. He

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Speaker 1: didn't die in a brush ball. He'd start to at turkey,

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Speaker 1: calling and walking to it, and he'd get right on

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Speaker 1: them and put some turkey stuff to him. Well, he

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Speaker 1: told me one time, he said, you like this game,

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Speaker 1: but you got to keep in mind, if you hunt

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Speaker 1: these turkeys like they need to be hunting, you won't

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Speaker 1: have no friends, your family be mad at you, you'll

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Speaker 1: probably lose your job. He went on and on about

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Speaker 1: all bad things that can happen to you. I said, well,

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Speaker 1: it can't be that bad. He said, I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: if you really hunt turkey. Now there's people that turkey

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Speaker 1: hunt and there's people that really hunt them.

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Speaker 2: I get the feeding Johnny is one of those turkey

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Speaker 2: hunters that really hunts them, and that these hanging tagged

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Speaker 2: beards aren't the only turkeys. This man is killed. His

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Speaker 2: friendship with Ben Lee is going to lead us right

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Speaker 2: into something critical. Did you know him personally very well? Like, like,

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Speaker 2: was he married? Did he have a family?

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Speaker 1: He had been married thirteen times?

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Speaker 2: Are you serious?

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Speaker 1: I'm serious, That's what he told me. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: all his wives. I knew Servello. But he said, if

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Speaker 1: you really hunt him, turkey's right. That's when he said

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Speaker 1: about the family and your job and all that.

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Speaker 2: He was speaking from experience, from experience, y'all? Was he was?

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Speaker 2: He kind of an outlaw?

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Speaker 1: Sort of would you say? Was? I hate the category people?

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Speaker 1: But yeah, he's kind of like myself.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, he was kind of like myself, he said, an outlaw.

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Speaker 2: I'd heard this about Johnny and Ben, but I didn't

189
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Speaker 2: know for sure about Johnny. I kind of put him

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Speaker 2: on the spot, and he it's hesitant to categorize his

191
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Speaker 2: old friend in this way. But Johnny kind of tells

192
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Speaker 2: stuff the way it is. But again, this story isn't

193
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Speaker 2: about Ben Lee, who passed away in a car accident

194
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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one at the age of forty six.

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Speaker 2: The story is about Johnny Johnston, and as you may know,

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of respect for people willing to

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Speaker 2: be honest about their past. I've often found people like

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Speaker 2: Johnny to be more honest than people with less visible

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Speaker 2: issues lurking in their past. And I know that people

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Speaker 2: like Johnny are usually cut from a different cloth. In

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Speaker 2: this next question, I cut right to the chase, and

202
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Speaker 2: you'll hear the nervousness in my voice was with you.

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Speaker 2: Did you did you ever have any Did the law

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Speaker 2: ever mean anything to you? No? Why wouldn't it because

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Speaker 2: most people it does.

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Speaker 1: The law itself? Or you mean a turkey law, Yeah, yeah,

207
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Speaker 1: when turkey's gobbled the hunting them.

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Speaker 2: You just weren't afraid of getting in trouble.

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Speaker 1: No, never crossed my mind. I had it explained to

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Speaker 1: me one time by a judge in court, not hunting.

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Speaker 1: It seems like I had killed a turkey during the

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Speaker 1: wrong dates and times. He said, why did you do that?

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Speaker 1: I said, Well, where I'm from, when your tomatoes get right,

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Speaker 1: you pick them. When your potatoes get right, you dig them.

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Speaker 1: When your turkeys are right, you go get you on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but he said that's not the way we do it.

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Speaker 1: You have laws that govern when you kill them and

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Speaker 1: when you can. He explained that to.

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Speaker 2: Me, Americans are intrigued by people willing to break the

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Speaker 2: law period. If you need convincing, just look at the

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Speaker 2: top movies, podcasts, and books we read. Heck, look at

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Speaker 2: the top Bear Grease podcast. But I'm still trying to

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Speaker 2: understand why. I think examinations of extremes help calibrate society

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Speaker 2: in some tribal, primitive way, almost like we get the

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Speaker 2: signal for normal by bouncing off the outliers. But there's

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Speaker 2: no debate about it. What's ironic is that we are

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Speaker 2: a society of rule followers. If our civilization gets smashed

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Speaker 2: by a comet and archaeologists dig it up and start

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Speaker 2: making conclusions about us, they'll find that this country was

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Speaker 2: built on law and order. The vast majority of people

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Speaker 2: who come to a stop sign in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the night, even though they know that no one is watching,

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Speaker 2: they're gonna stop, I mean at least a rolling stop,

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Speaker 2: And in many places of the world they wouldn't at all,

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Speaker 2: even when they know people are watching. Americans are rule followers,

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Speaker 2: despite the independent liber the aholic, brash exterior. But the

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Speaker 2: outliers are worth examination, and Johnny was an outlier when

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Speaker 2: it came to wildlife law. We need to know more

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Speaker 2: about his past. Now, let me this is kind of

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Speaker 2: a personal question. But would your parents have raised you

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Speaker 2: to just obey the law?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just like in general. Yeah, you would have known

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Speaker 2: nobody can't steal or you can't.

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Speaker 1: O My folks were by the book all the way.

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Speaker 2: Well, how did how did you get from that to

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Speaker 2: being willing to break the law?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, just getting in the world and not

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Speaker 1: really caring, just doing pretty much what I wanted to do. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now, did you ever really get in trouble? Did you

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Speaker 2: ever get caught, like killing a legal turkey?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I just didn't ever give it a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of thaw when turkeys are goblin. I just went on.

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Speaker 2: Always like this can make people feel uncomfortable, especially people

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Speaker 2: that love wildlife and conservation and talk about it a lot.

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Speaker 2: But this is part of the rural America that I

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Speaker 2: grew up around. Turkey laws were often seen as mere suggestions.

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Speaker 2: This next story is about the man who taught Johnny

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Speaker 2: to turkey hunt, and the first time they got caught.

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Speaker 1: I can't talk about turkeys with talking about my old friend,

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Speaker 1: the man that taught me out of turkey hunt superman. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've been caught. He lived at Tallahaney, Oklahoma, and I'm

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Speaker 1: calling his name. He's dead and gone now and he's

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Speaker 1: respected by every turkey hunter or that part of the world.

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Speaker 1: Way ain't caught turkey killing. This man I've ever met,

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Speaker 1: have ever known. And I knew that he hunted a

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Speaker 1: law back when I started. I didn't even know him.

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Speaker 1: I went he was horsemen, had a good race horse,

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Speaker 1: stood a race sore stallion, and now I was kind

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Speaker 1: of a horseman back in the day, and that's how

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Speaker 1: I knew him. But I looked him up and got

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Speaker 1: acquainted with him, and I said, here's what I want.

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Speaker 1: I want you to teach me how to turkey hunt.

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Speaker 1: No old board, I want to know it all. Well,

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Speaker 1: he said, next spring, you'll just have to come over here,

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Speaker 1: we'll go. I said, when when he said, oh, first

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Speaker 1: of March, had a good time.

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Speaker 2: If you're a turkey hunter, you'll know that ninety eight

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Speaker 2: percent of American turkey seasons don't open in the first

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Speaker 2: of March. This was an invite to get an illegal

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Speaker 2: early start.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so first of March I went to day with

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Speaker 1: it and we hunted and he what lettle I know

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Speaker 1: about a turkey? That old gentleman taught me he was

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Speaker 1: slicking a snottled the door knob. Now he used a wingbone,

286
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Speaker 1: or a piece of can or a briar leaf or

287
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 1: a peach leaf later on in the year, or a

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00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,040
Speaker 1: sleigh called very little, very light. You could be sitting

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00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,919
Speaker 1: next to him and barely hear him call. But he

290
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:18,240
Speaker 1: didn't call to a turkey unless he was seventy yards close.

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Speaker 1: He used the terrain, the lamb, to cover of darkness

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Speaker 1: to get to him. He said, there's no such thing

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Speaker 1: as working a turkey. People talked about working a turkey

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Speaker 1: for two hours. He said that should never happen. If

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Speaker 1: they're right on that turkey, they're having killed in ten minutes.

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Speaker 1: One cluck, two clucks. That's not put the call up.

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Speaker 1: And he showed me some moves pretty slick. He's a

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Speaker 1: good guy, but he didn't pay a lot of attention

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Speaker 1: to season. When a turkey gobbled. He went. We were

300
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Speaker 1: one day in there behind his place and two turkeys.

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Speaker 1: He give me to easy. He wasn't. He took the

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Speaker 1: hard one further and we met back. We had two turkeys,

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Speaker 1: he said. We was walking back to the jeep and

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Speaker 1: one gobbled off in fe a little rough candy that injurors,

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Speaker 1: give me out turkey, I'm going gee. So I went

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Speaker 1: off down there. Nothing, couldn't do nothing with him. Watered

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Speaker 1: him around a couple of hours, come back, went to

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Speaker 1: the g well. He said, we've been caught. We may

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Speaker 1: we've been called well, he said, I've been called game

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Speaker 1: boardeners there when I got here, got a ticket. You

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Speaker 1: got two tickets. So that's the first time we'd ever

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Speaker 1: been in any problem, and we on it all time.

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Speaker 1: Poor ze.

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Speaker 2: What did he tell the game boarding that you were

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Speaker 2: down there?

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Speaker 1: No, he wasn't. Never told that. He said, I heard.

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Speaker 1: I hurried up and took the ticket because I know

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Speaker 1: you was going shoot any minute.

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Speaker 2: This is where the story starts to get complicated. It

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00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 2: was back in the mid seventies. It would be the

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Speaker 2: start of about thirty years of illegal turkey hunting for Johnny.

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Speaker 1: My dad used to get on to me a low

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Speaker 1: or hunting too much.

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Speaker 2: Really so your dad, Oh yeah, I knew that you

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Speaker 2: were illegally hunting.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he wouldn't do it.

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Speaker 2: What would he say to you?

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Speaker 1: I'd call him and asked for a ride somewhere, let

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Speaker 1: me out and picked me up at a certain time.

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Speaker 1: He knew what I was doing.

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Speaker 2: What would he say? Do you remember anything specific? Like

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Speaker 2: he was like, Johnny, this is bad. You're gonna get

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Speaker 2: in trouble.

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Speaker 1: You no better than now.

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Speaker 2: But he still helped you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he would. He didn't like it, but he would.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Did he ever hide guns in the woods?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Man, Yeah, I had a couple of logs up here.

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Speaker 1: I'd put him in and I had a no shotgun.

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Speaker 1: I'd very proud of I put it in there in

341
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Speaker 1: the wood. Rats he just stopped cheot it all up.

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Speaker 2: So it's just like in a couple of days.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe that. Yeah, they just eat on it

344
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 1: and eat on it. So I'd get me a big

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00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 1: PVC and pipe put it in camp. And another time

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Speaker 1: or two I got a chuckle control burns. They cause

347
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Speaker 1: you some pugalty. I had a gun back over here

348
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Speaker 1: and stay in here in the camper. And I came

349
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Speaker 1: in that day and took a nap and I got up.

350
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Speaker 1: You couldn't see for the smoke. I thought, crap, I've

351
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: got a Browning shot gun and a log right in

352
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Speaker 1: that far, so I'll get it on my four wheeler

353
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Speaker 1: and i'll take off up very well. I'll come around

354
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Speaker 1: and then just people ever were bulldoders and fire lighters,

355
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Speaker 1: and I was trying to get around, and I was

356
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Speaker 1: trying to stop.

357
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Speaker 2: Didn't burn your guy up.

358
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Speaker 1: Now, I got through them and got through it. Boy,

359
00:21:54,920 --> 00:22:01,640
Speaker 1: it's pretty smoky and it's getting pretty cloth. Yeah. Another time,

360
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 1: a funny little deal. I got a chuffle out, hit

361
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Speaker 1: a turkey and a gun up here on a dead

362
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Speaker 1: end road, and I went back up there again. It later,

363
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Speaker 1: everything good, everything okay, And there was a bulldozer and

364
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Speaker 1: a lot boy sitting there not ten foot from my

365
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 1: turkey in that gun. Well, but he run over that

366
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Speaker 1: gun when he unloaded that older but he didn't he

367
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 1: minced it about that for yeah, and they were doing

368
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Speaker 1: something and we knuck around about the gun turkey and

369
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Speaker 1: got out of there.

370
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Speaker 2: This is some pretty serious outlawn. Illegal turkey hunters often

371
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 2: hid guns in the woods where they knew turkeys were close,

372
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 2: so they could drive to and from the spot without

373
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Speaker 2: a gun in the truck, making it almost impossible for

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Speaker 2: game wardens to pin them down. It might seem unusual

375
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Speaker 2: for us to be talking about this so openly, but

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Speaker 2: the reason he's so comfortable is that today Johnny doesn't

377
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 2: have anything to hide, because when he hit the bottom

378
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 2: fifteen years, three hundred and nineteen days ago, everything was

379
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 2: laid bare. That story is coming. I'd rather someone tell

380
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: it to me like it happened than try to sugarcoat it.

381
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 2: I think we need to fill in the gaps in

382
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Speaker 2: Johnny's history, though, I'm interested in his upbringing.

383
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Speaker 1: I was born in Haveneror in Oklahoma, ordinary people. My

384
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 1: dad worked for the railroad. All my family worked for

385
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Speaker 1: the railroad. I grew up just a normal boy, playing sports,

386
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Speaker 1: and my dad quail hunted John I just went crazy

387
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Speaker 1: about it. I love it. That's what I do, that's

388
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: my lie. And I played sports and rodeo. Was raised

389
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Speaker 1: on a horse, rode a horse to a ball practice,

390
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: and rode a horse everywhere I went swimming and over time,

391
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: and the hunting part of it that I just kind

392
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: of figured it out on my own. My dad, dear

393
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: honted a little bit and he'd take me and he

394
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,239
Speaker 1: gave me a thirty thirty and I just started there

395
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: hunt and just talking to people and learning how to

396
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: hunt and doing it and learning from my mistake. That's

397
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: a big thing we can learn in our lives by

398
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: our mistakes. I disliked life. I was raised in church,

399
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 1: and I don't know where I went wrong, but I

400
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: liked the world better. I did think the hard way,

401
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: and I made a lot of bad choices. But I'm

402
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: not that way anymore.

403
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: I'm not that way anymore. He said. That's actually what

404
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: all the people that told me about Johnny said. That's

405
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 2: really why I'm here. I want to learn more about

406
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: Johnny's life.

407
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: One time, my mom made me go of college. When

408
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: I got out of school, I said, no, I don't

409
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: want to go, but yeah, you're going. I had a

410
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: hard time getting along. I'd be late for class, drinking

411
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: with a big part of my lot. And they suggested

412
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: that I take a samaistra off and kind of find

413
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: myself well in the process. I was going to college

414
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: at Talaquaw, fell in with a band of hippies and

415
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: I stayed on the Illinois's River Bridge and the freedo

416
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: van for Samarster and I got quite an education. And

417
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: when I left there, I went to work on a

418
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 1: railroad and for the summer. Then I was gonna go

419
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: back to school straighten up, and I never happened. I

420
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: stayed with the railroad and retired there.

421
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: Johnny started working for the railroad in nineteen seventy and

422
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 2: was a train engineer for decades, but the spring of

423
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five was the first time that he ever

424
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: turkey hunted. This is when it all started.

425
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: It was around seventy five, started having a turkey on

426
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: and I didn't know anyone that had ever a turkey on.

427
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: I didn't even know what a turkey call was. I

428
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: knew two older men and my dad told me that

429
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: they had killed turkeys, they had hunted them. So I

430
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: went and talked to them and they showed me a

431
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: few moves on a turkey call. And that April we

432
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: had a caesar and I got a call off mister

433
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: Phillips and went up on the hill. We had a

434
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: cabin and I'd seen some turkeys there deer hunt, and

435
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: I went up on the hill and laid my gun

436
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: up against a tree and whacked a box and a

437
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: turkey gobble and shot me. And I looked and it

438
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: running right at me, and I dropped my call and

439
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: shot the turkey and they run off. I was the

440
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: first encounter I d had with a wild turkey, and

441
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: I was hooked right to them.

442
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 2: Did you get the turkey or to get away from them?

443
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: Oh? We got away, but I was walking around the

444
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: way he went looking for him, and I heard another

445
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: one goble and I called to him and he came,

446
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: and I've shot him and got him. So I'm a

447
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: turkey killer now and I've hunted them ever since, justlike

448
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: they've done something to my mama. I've had the opportunity.

449
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: I hung with doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs. One of my

450
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: favorite people was the chief of the Cherokee Nation. He's

451
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: a good god. My mom was part Indian. I'm a

452
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: quarter but I like Indians. I've got a good spirit,

453
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: a good feel for the wood, water and the wind.

454
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: They like all that stuff. I may be part of

455
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: why I'm drawn to it. I don't know. I like them.

456
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: I respect turkeys. I got more respect for a turkey

457
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: gobbler than a lot of people. I'll promise you.

458
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 2: A statement like this, coming from a confessed lawbreaker, could

459
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: certainly ruffle your feathers. But I think what he's really

460
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: saying is that turkey hunting meant so much to him

461
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: that he was willing to risk it all to hunt them.

462
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 2: But the functionalization of that passion was awry. There are

463
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 2: some things in life that seem to be built for temptation,

464
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 2: uniquely appealing but forbidden. In a goblin Turkey before season

465
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 2: has been the downfall of many a man. I've never

466
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: known a woman to be a turkey outlaw, and if

467
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: you've listened to me enough, you know that I pray

468
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 2: that this story in no way glorifies breaking the law,

469
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 2: and I don't think Johnny wants it to either. But

470
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,239
Speaker 2: like in most things that deal with human nature, they

471
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: are nuanced, interesting, if examined in detail, and insightful. If

472
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 2: you're willing to listen to people talk who have a

473
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 2: different life experience than you, There are so many tidbits

474
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 2: of interest in Johnny's story. It's like being confused on

475
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: a covey rise by how many he targets are in

476
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: front of you. The thing that stands out most to

477
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 2: me is Johnny's honesty about a dishonest past. He's not

478
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: blaming anyone for his decisions, and he's not seeking attention

479
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: or any kind of glory at all. I pride his

480
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: arm to get him to talk to me. And I'm

481
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: the one that came to him. And if something goes awry,

482
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: and the fact that this story was released, it's Clay

483
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: Nukeom that's to blame, not Johnny. Johnny remembered a story

484
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: from the nineteen eighties that he thinks I need to hear.

485
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: I probably need to tell you that story, don't. I

486
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: had a cabin on Poto Mount and leap it's a

487
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: mail roof, and I got up there with a hammer

488
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: and every time I was beating that rich cap down,

489
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: trying to get a nail in it to pull that

490
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: rich cap down. Every time i'd hit that maidle of

491
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: Turkey ago. This was a couple of weeks before season.

492
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: I was gonna hunt there of that seat. But every

493
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: time I'd hit that, she dire bowl off man. Well

494
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: rain that night, big rain, bad ruin man. There won't

495
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: be nobody overwhere, So I just drove around. I know

496
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: close to where he was from my cabin, but I

497
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: could get up there that get wet and walk down

498
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: that road and I'd be right on it. And I

499
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: yep to him and he go all right back. When

500
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: he come there were three ol' Oh boy, I don't

501
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: need three. I believe I'm gonna get one. And it's

502
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: a good deal. I did a lot of calling just

503
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: seeing what I could get by with. I don't close

504
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: enough kill I cut, squawked and cackle. Yeah the boy.

505
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: They was putting the show on. So I shot one,

506
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: got it, went back to my truck, discharged to set

507
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: it over in the back of the truck, and my

508
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: game more than friend. Randy Fennel cut up behind my truck.

509
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: He was in a rushball right there behind my truck.

510
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: Got you, boy, you sure do? I couldn't lie had

511
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: run so I said, you ain't not a bad day yourself?

512
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: Did you hear all that? Randy? Oh? Yeah, I heard

513
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: it all. That's good as a gift. It's just too early.

514
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to take it. You for well. I

515
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: don't blame me. You ain't not a bad day. Here's

516
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: your gun, here's your truck, here's your turkey. What else

517
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: you need? Well? He said, I hate to see you

518
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: taking that hard. I'm job security for you. Do you

519
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: hear all that goblin this morning? I ain't going nowhere.

520
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: You making it that? Yes, I said, you can make

521
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: a name for yourself right there. I ain't going nowhere.

522
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take your gun. I said, well, you can

523
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: catch me a couple more times before I'm getting nervous,

524
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: and I said, get in. It's started rain again. He

525
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: had soaking wet. He had sat in the rain, probably

526
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: biggest part of the morning in the dark, because he

527
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: didn't come in there out of senior truck. But I say,

528
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: get in. I'll take you to your truck. After all this,

529
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: you will give me a ride. Well, I'm a good guy.

530
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: If you knew me, you'd like me. I ain't a

531
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: bad guy. You make a name for yourself right there.

532
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: I hope they promote you and move you to Oklahoma City.

533
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: Get you out of the wood. I hauled him right

534
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: to his strug. We still talk now.

535
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: Okay, when you describe how calm you were today forty

536
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: years later, as you tell that story, you're like super calm,

537
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of times we kind of

538
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: rewrite stuff in our head. Were you that calm? For real?

539
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: When that guy you didn't care.

540
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: No, he'd tell you the same thing. If we were

541
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: here today, he'd tell you the same thing.

542
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: Okay, So there's these rock climbers, these these free climbers

543
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 2: that climb these big granite faces out and out west,

544
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 2: and they talk about how those guys are superhuman when

545
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: it comes to dealing with anxiety, and they're just able

546
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: to climb on these rocks where me or you, a

547
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: normal guy, I would be scared to death. Their brain

548
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: doesn't equate the consequence of falling like a normal person.

549
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 2: I still don't understand why you wouldn't be afraid, because

550
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 2: it's not like you're rich and could just pay tickets.

551
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 2: No big deal. They're going to take your truck, they're

552
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: gonna take your gun, just for what you had going

553
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 2: on in your life. And at that time too, I

554
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: guess you were were you an alcoholic at that time?

555
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: So I mean there was a lot of I guess

556
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: of rough stuff going on much.

557
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

558
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: So it's just it's just like turkey O eaton was

559
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 2: not something you were worried about.

560
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: When I loaded them in the truck, I had a

561
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: thought that nervoushed me just a little bit. Right between

562
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: me and m laying on a seat with a bag

563
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: of dope and a deer horn pipe, and I very

564
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: casually screwted a glove over it. Now, that unnerved me

565
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: a little bit, But as far as killing a turkey

566
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: a few days early, now, I didn't bother them at all. Yeah,

567
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: getting caught in I don't know. Maybe I'll just look

568
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: at it different.

569
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: We're starting to see that his problems with the law

570
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: were bigger than just turkeys. He could have left out

571
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: that little detail, but he didn't, and I appreciate that.

572
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: What's ironic is that today marijuana is legal in most places,

573
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 2: but at the time Johnny might have gone to jail

574
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: for it. But I'd like to examine his statement about

575
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: looking at wildlife laws different. That could sound like the

576
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 2: typical excuse, But Johnny brings up an interesting point that,

577
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 2: if not addressed, could assault the intellectual integrity of our discussion,

578
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 2: which I am greatly enjoying. My point is nuanced, and

579
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 2: it has to do with how different generations view life

580
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 2: laws and ethics. By my observation, some people, emphasis on

581
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 2: some in rural America that were adults by the nineteen sixties,

582
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 2: viewed game laws as mere suggestions and it was even

583
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 2: validated by the legal system of the time, as they

584
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: simply ticketed people with relatively minimal consequences, making the crime

585
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: feel not that much different than a speeding ticket. I'm

586
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 2: not suggesting that it was ever right to break the law.

587
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,919
Speaker 2: The Bible says that men should obey the laws of men,

588
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 2: and by doing so, they're ultimately obeying God, and that

589
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 2: book was written long before nineteen sixty. But people raised

590
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 2: later in the progression of American conservation were more likely

591
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: to respect and obey wildlife laws. By the nineteen nineties,

592
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 2: average hunters were becoming indoctrinated with functional ideas about conservation,

593
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: and it became much more mainstream to obey the law,

594
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: to the point that outlawing has fallen more and more

595
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: out of style. At least this is what I have

596
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 2: witnessed with my own eyes. But you'll have to listen

597
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 2: to this and tell me what you think.

598
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: Now.

599
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 2: What about today, though, Johnny, Because because what I've what

600
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 2: I've heard from people, and I feel like what I've

601
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: heard from you is that you don't break the law

602
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 2: anymore on purpose?

603
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: No, why not. I'm just a better person than I

604
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: used to be. I used to just didn't care. I

605
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: care now I don't go before season that.

606
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: What about now, probably with more knowledge of conservation, if

607
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: everybody killed twenty turkeys a year, that would.

608
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: For sure be bad, it'd be wrong.

609
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 2: What about from that angle, from just a conservation angle.

610
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: Now, the way our turkeys are number numbers are down,

611
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: they don't need to be over on at Luckdade.

612
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 2: But so part of your deal was back in the

613
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 2: day we had so many there were so few turkey

614
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: hunters that you just couldn't figure out why it was wrong.

615
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: Right, didn't see that much wrong, isn't it. When I

616
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: first started hunting over here meant seventies, I'd come over

617
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 1: here for two weeks and never see a turkey under hunt.

618
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: This whole country, all of it, never even see a hunter.

619
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: Nobody hunting overhere. Andy's probably full of turkeys any anywhere

620
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: you stop, my no difference. Anywhere you stop, you if

621
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: you're a turkey go.

622
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 2: And so you're sitting here saying the game and Fish

623
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: tells me I can kill two turkeys. I mean, you're

624
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 2: you're gonna kill more than that.

625
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: Probably it's a different time.

626
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 2: It was a different time, he said. And I want

627
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 2: to point out that He's literally describing a former time.

628
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 2: Penalties were different, Turkey populations were higher, Turkey hunter numbers

629
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: were way lower, and it was more common for his

630
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 2: generation and their mentors to take wildlife laws less. Seriously,

631
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: all this stuff makes me grateful for the generations of

632
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 2: American game wardens that have been the interface of the

633
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: law in our society as it gradually has shifted from

634
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: the market hunting mentalities of the eighteen hundreds to the

635
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 2: hyper informed conservation mind frames of the average modern hunter.

636
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 2: We've still got problems today, but things are getting better.

637
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 2: I'm still, though, trying to figure out Johnny's motivation. I've

638
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 2: got a question for him, and I'm going to bring

639
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 2: up two familiar names from Bear Greece's past that we

640
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: did on a series called Genuine Outlaws, which started on

641
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 2: episode fifty two. We did this series on Louidale and

642
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 2: Charlie Edwards. It was real clear that they enjoyed getting

643
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 2: away from game ordens and that was a part of

644
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 2: the fun that they had and it felt like and

645
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: kind of what the people around them. And I never

646
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 2: interviewed Louidlle and Charlie because they were they had passed

647
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,479
Speaker 2: away by the time I did this, it was clear

648
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 2: that they that was part of the reason that they

649
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 2: want wanted to kill stuff illegally. It was just kind

650
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: of the thrill of getting away with it.

651
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: Yeah was that?

652
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 2: Do you think that was a part of what you did? Not?

653
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: Really, I just liked it. I just liked hunting turkeys

654
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 1: and the time to hunt thems when they're double is

655
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: just that simple. Yeah, that's simple. But no, not not

656
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: just trying to get away with it. It just I

657
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: don't know. I just did it. Uh, you know. I

658
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: didn't bait them or hunt them in the summer and

659
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: shoot them over water, set around the water hole and

660
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: try to kill them. I didn't do that. If you

661
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: hunt a turkey with a turkey call and a shotgun,

662
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: you're not gonna hurt the population, just shoe gobbler. That's

663
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: the way I looked at it. I'm not saying that's right,

664
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: and if everybody did that it would be bad. But

665
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: as far as being scared.

666
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: No, Back in those days, though, a ticket might have

667
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 2: been just like one hundred and fifty dollars. Just go

668
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 2: pay your ticket, is that right?

669
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: Yeah? I got call one time, I got caught. I

670
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 1: think two hundred and seventy dollars, and after Turkey season,

671
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: I made a deal with the DA that I could

672
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: pick up trash with the inmates from our prison here

673
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: at Hodgy to pay for the rest of it. And

674
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: that's what I did.

675
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: See you picked up trash.

676
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: I paid him a little cash and picked up trash

677
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 1: with them in money. Boy, they made me a lot

678
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: of deals, but I couldn't take any of them either.

679
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: I said, I'll be in here full time with you

680
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: all right now. Got a couple of months here picking

681
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,959
Speaker 1: up trash. But that's worth killing the turkey. You can't

682
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: put a price on killing the turkey.

683
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: Really, that's the way you would well look at it.

684
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: But as much as I've done it, I've been chased around.

685
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 2: But do you think they were after you?

686
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, yeah No.

687
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 2: Do you think they ever worked you undercover?

688
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,919
Speaker 1: I think, what are.

689
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 2: You pointing out there?

690
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: Old bricks? Uh huh. I had a couple of gentlemen

691
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 1: show up here, wanted to do that, do this brick work? Yeah?

692
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: I said, well, yeah, it'd be a good idea and

693
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: needed one, but don't have it. I said, well, well

694
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: we're gonna build you one. I didn't think nothing about it,

695
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: and they start calling my house. I didn't have a

696
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: phone here. They started calling my house looking for me,

697
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: and they showed back up and find me in town,

698
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: and I found that strange. They got nearly through and

699
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: he said, you don't know what to think about us,

700
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: do you? I said, well, no, at really, but I

701
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: thank you. Probably worked for the Waldlife Department, maybe undercover

702
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: trying to catch me. They'd asked me all kinds of

703
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: turkey stuff and deer stuff and how men were they

704
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: hunters claimed to be. I don't know. I wasn't going

705
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: to go wanting one, but they just keep coming back,

706
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: coming back, coming back, and I finally he said, you

707
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: don't know what to think about us, do you? I said, well,

708
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: I think you're undercover, probably trying to catch me in

709
00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: some kind of violations. And they loaded their stuff up

710
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: them left, and I hadn't seen them.

711
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: Since you're pretty certain they were undercover guys.

712
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes if you listen, you can hear stuff. If

713
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: you've got your ears open and your eyes open, you

714
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: might get a tip from somebody that And I was

715
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 1: kind of on the look.

716
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: You were just suspicious of these guys. Yeah, yeah, So

717
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: did you get a tip from somebody else. Yeah, how

718
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,879
Speaker 2: does that make you feel? I mean, at the time,

719
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 2: did that that didn't scare you?

720
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: No, it made me feel good that that man thought

721
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 1: enough of me to save me a problem. Oh well,

722
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: I wasn't a bit afraid of them. Now, game ardens

723
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: are just people. I'm not afraid of them. People say

724
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: them coming A lot of times. I've been hunting with

725
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: people and game warding drive up and they just go

726
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: all to pieces. They we ain't done nothing wrong. The

727
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: man ain't gonna bother Ruugh.

728
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 2: Johnny's transparency today is notable. We're going to learn the

729
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: nitty gritty of why he changed. But first here's a

730
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: lighter story about an interaction with a game warden that

731
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 2: happened during a legal hunting season, and then after this

732
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,760
Speaker 2: we're gonna get real serious.

733
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: There was an old gentleman we know was calling to

734
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 1: a turkey, so we just laid in the ditch. We

735
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 1: didn't them want to mess him up. We just laying there. Listen,

736
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: he'd whacked the turkey of gob We wasn't coming. We'd

737
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: played with him quite a bit. He was not a player.

738
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: He had gobbled over his fun and I said, look

739
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: coming up a road there and there come a game

740
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: order sneaking up a road. Now we're laying our full

741
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 1: caval fog right in the ditch. And he got right

742
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: even with me, and I said, get somewhere and say

743
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,959
Speaker 1: down here. The wild turkeys were hunting here. We can't

744
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: kill him. You walking up down the road here, what's

745
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: better to you? And it haddled him, kind of blowed

746
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: him up or something. He went for a gun, but

747
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: it last day. Boy, you don't need no gun. Now

748
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: we're just haven't. Another man called this turkey said down

749
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: here with if you won't hunt with us, you need

750
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 1: to get here early and work from camifalauge. If you

751
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: ain't got a shot gun, all out you want.

752
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: And now is this before season?

753
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: No?

754
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 2: This is during legal season.

755
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, we've had from wardens here.

756
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 2: Johnny has painted a clear picture of his days of outlawing.

757
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 2: But the one thing that those half a dozen people

758
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 2: did tell me one by one before I met Johnny

759
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 2: is that he is different today. He's changed, they said.

760
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,959
Speaker 2: Even the game wardens suggested this. Throughout this story, you've

761
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: heard that Johnny used to be an alcoholic. And from

762
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 2: one story we learned that he used some drugs. I

763
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 2: wanted to know how that started and why he changed,

764
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 2: so I asked him.

765
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: Well, I just made some bad choices hanging out with

766
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: the wrong people, and I'd been around whild caf whiskey

767
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: and home brew, and I just didn't handle it very well.

768
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 1: And then I got over here. After I got my cabin,

769
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: there was a preacher that coon hunted a lord. He

770
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,959
Speaker 1: would stop by the seaman. I was usually too drunk

771
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: to talk to him, but I know he was here.

772
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: I was raised in church, trained up in church, like

773
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: the boat books sell, but I just let the world

774
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: get the best of me. But when that preacher started

775
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: coming here, it kind of got me to thinking. And

776
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: I woke up one morning up the creek here. I'd

777
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: been on a pretty bad drunk and when I woke

778
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: up that particular morning, I didn't know where I was,

779
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: how I got there. I didn't know any of them.

780
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: People didn't know where my truck was. I finally found

781
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: someone I know and got them to take me to

782
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: my truck. In fact, i'd been gone about six months.

783
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: I come over there hunt and it was after Turkey's

784
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: evening and I still hadn't been on so I lost

785
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: about everything, my wife, my family, my friends, my place,

786
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: cattle tractors, but I didn't care. And I woke up

787
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: one morning up here and I thought, you're in a

788
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: bad way, and the only hope for you of Jesus.

789
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: And by that preacher coming here, I think that kind

790
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: of rekindled the spirit that had been instilled in me

791
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: as a kid. And I decided I needed to get

792
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: right with the Lord and get my life right and

793
00:46:54,280 --> 00:47:00,720
Speaker 1: try to get my family back. And so I stopped

794
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: on top of Horseshoe Mountain one morning, just getting daylight,

795
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: and I asked the Lord to help me. I'm in

796
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 1: a bind, save me, take this addiction from me, give

797
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: me my life back. And I drove on to the

798
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: cabin and I went out here by this fire pit,

799
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 1: and the sun was coming up then, and I saw

800
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: a transformation in the east with that sun shining through

801
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 1: the clouds like I had never seen before. Had to

802
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: be a sign from God, a glimpse of heaven, maybe

803
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: orange purple, blue cloud raised a light shining through them.

804
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: Pretty amazing, And my life was changed after to that

805
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: fire pit. Believe it or not, it was easier than

806
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: you think. When you get Jesus involved in it. He

807
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: took when I gave my life to him, he took

808
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 1: that addiction from me. Been fifteen years, three hundred and

809
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: nineteen days, and I'll serve it. I believe, and he

810
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: took that from me. Yeah, I'd been locked up, dried

811
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: out in jail for public drunk, all kind of stuff.

812
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: But when I got Jesus in my life through the

813
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 1: Holy Spirit, he took that addiction from I quit smoking,

814
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: I quit drinking, I quit everything right there to a

815
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 1: fire pit. It took a few months, but I had

816
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: some time. I waited. I got my life back, I

817
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: got my wife's back, my family back. Lord bless me

818
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: with a good cabin, a new house. And I went

819
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: from being an alcoholic with a drug addiction to a

820
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: deacon and an order to minister. And some people get

821
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: saved at an early age. I got to preach. Your

822
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: friend told me he was saved when he was nine

823
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: years old, never broke any laws. I said, what you

824
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 1: get saved from? Yeah, I've done it all. What I

825
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: hadn't done all, this, hadn't never thought over, didn't want

826
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: to try it. I've done it all, and that ain't

827
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 1: no secret. But I'm not that way anymore. Jesus has

828
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: given me a whole new life, the whole new heart,

829
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: and the whole new mind. Today I've got my wife back,

830
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: my family bad, Yeah, bout everybody equipment, Yeah, Jesus fixed

831
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: all that. Better than that over be. I still like

832
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: a hunt. He goes with me. He likes mountains.

833
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 2: It's it's clear that Johnny has been through the ringer,

834
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 2: but it sounds like he's got things figured out now.

835
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: There's more to people than the worst days of their past,

836
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 2: and there's more for you than the worst days of

837
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 2: your past. The confessions of this former outlaw is really

838
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 2: a story of redemption. Thank you, Johnny for sharing the

839
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: nitty gritty of your story. I can't thank you enough

840
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 2: for listening to Bear Grease and Brent's This Country Life podcast.

841
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 2: Please share this podcast with someone that you know that

842
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 2: might be struggling, or somebody that just enjoys a genuine story.

843
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: Thank you all so much. Keep the wild places wild,

844
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 2: because that's where the bears live.

845
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 1: A lot of train whistled right under the whistle. I've

846
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: lost quite a bit of my hearing.

847
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

848
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:06,959
Speaker 1: I used to get here good and of course good,

849
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 1: but now I have to have someone go with me

850
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: because my son in law said, if you hear a

851
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: Turkey John it, don't go to it. Said, down's dark calling.

852
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:16,720
Speaker 1: You're already too close.

853
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 2: If you can hear it, you're already hear gobble.

854
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: You're already too close.

855
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 2: That's funny at hup